Best Of Season 1 - Pt. 2

In part two of a special edition of the “Best of” season one, Ed talks with those who top the music charts, make us laugh, and make their marks on the big screen. Guests include: The super producing team of Jam & Lewis, actor Larenz Tate and funnyman George Wallace.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Ed
Gordon Podcast. Today part two of our special look back
at our first season, from politics to pop culture. Every
week I talked with some of today's most intriguing people.
We had a great lineup of guests and will share
some of those moments with politics, COVID and Black Lives

(00:41):
Matter captured many of the headlines, and last week we
looked at hard news and the guests we talked with
over season one. Today we look at the celebrities we
set down with, from television to movies to music. We
talked with those who helped shape pop culture. Musical guests
were big for us the first season. First I spoke

(01:04):
with a man who was part of a duo who
produced some of the songs that have found their way
into musical history. Me and Mrs Jones. Love Train and
Wake Up Everybody are just three of the many huge
hits produced by Kenny Gamble and his partner Leon Huff.
Gambling Huff's record label, Philadelphia International, became one of the

(01:25):
most prolific R and B labels ever and produced a
star studded lineup of musicians that included The O j's
Teddy Pendergrass, Patti LaBelle, and Billy Paul. Later, they gave
huge second chapters to establish stars, including Lou Rawls and
Phillis Hyman. For more than a decade, starting in the

(01:46):
early seventies, Gambling Huff and Philadelphia International, much like Motown
before them, became a hit making machine, and the music
has endured. Kenny Gamble reflected on their career, We're really
lucky to have our music being played on radio. And

(02:07):
many of young people told us, Oh, man, my mother
and my father used to play that song around the house,
me and Mrs Jones, So I know that song. My
my father used to play that song, you know. And
so we've been able to go through generations. And uh,
I think that that's a that's a blessing with in itself.
Here's what's here's what's amazing to me when you look

(02:28):
at the numbers, if you look at seventy one when
you guys started, and and you know, I've said this
before to you, and I've said it to others. Born
and raised in Detroit, and so obviously my attachment to Motown,
but with my age, I came of age in the seventies.
So if Motown owned the sixties. The music that I'm

(02:50):
more closely associated with and is my heartbeat music is
that of Philadelphia International, you know, I mean in seventy one,
I was eleven, so my formertive few years. Man. You know,
listen when I was chasing little girlies and all that
I used. Everything y'all were putting downs. You know, you
never think of it, but it was a machine that

(03:11):
we that we were working to build. And and uh, motown,
your favorite was also our favorite because they were and
still is in my view, Berry Gordy and Holland Dogon
and alland Smokey Robinson and quite a few others, but

(03:32):
just motown period. The concept of motown was was the
blueprint for what we did at Philly International. And Half
and I. We didn't start in nineteen seventy one, Off
and I, and that's when we started filling in the
national But Half and I we've been working together since
like nineteen sixty four, sixty three somewhere around there, and

(03:57):
had already had hits. I mean sixty seven. If you're
an old school you remember Expressway to Heart, and you
also will remember Cowboys, the Girl, the Intruders and all
of that stuff. You know so, so it's it's been,
it's been interesting and and it's been great. Longevity was
important to another super producing team. Gamble and Huff became

(04:21):
mentors to James Harris and Terry Lewis, better known as
Jam and Lewis. The two were original members of the
Prince Influence Group the time before they became one of
the most prolific and influential producing teams in music history.
They gave hits to Janet Jackson new addition usher Johnny Gill,

(04:41):
Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, and many others. The team
has been turning out chart toppers since the early eighties.
Jimmy told me they always envisioned a long career. You
all have really created the soundtrack of you know, a
couple of generations, uh, you know, of their lives. What

(05:02):
is it for you guys to look back and look
at not only the longevity, but the sheer brilliance now
that lives. I mean, you all will be named with
the great songwriting and producing teams of all time. This is,
you know, not me just patting you on the back,
That's just fact. What's it like for you guys to
to to be able to look back on that now, well,

(05:23):
it's wonderful. I think longevity was you can't really plan longevity,
but I think it was part of our our thought process.
And I remember back when Control came out with Janets,
so that was thirty five years ago, and I remember
the first interview we did, which was kind of a
local boys make Good interview with the local newspaper up

(05:44):
in Minneapolis. UM. The reporter said, first question was, how
does it feel to be the hottest producers? And we said,
I don't really want to be the hottest producers. We
just want to be warm for a long time. And
so when we said that, he kind of thought about
it for a minute and then we moved down with
the rest of the interview. And so it was interesting.

(06:04):
Five years ago we did the Unbreakable album with Janet
and uh, the record, you know, album was number one,
the single was twelve weeks and number one or whatever. Uh,
And he said, how does it feel to have records
number one records in the eighties and nineties two thousands
and two thousand tens, Now, you know, four decades of

(06:25):
number one records. We said, well, remember what we told
you when you first interviewed us, And he said, what's that.
We said warm for a long time and he said, yeah,
you did say that. I'm like, yeah, because that was
always our our intent. His partner Terry Lewis, had this
to say, the most important part of it is the
journey itself too, and the people that you meet along
the way. And that's been especially just a blessing, you know,

(06:50):
to know these artists, producers like Gamble and Health who
are mentors, Clarence Savant and many many people that that
have touched our lives and many different ways. Man, and
we are truly truly blessed and always say, man, this
is a great journey. And I hope I never arrived
at the Yeah. One of the artists that Jam and

(07:11):
Lewis gave their Magic two was Yolanda Adams. The duo
produced Open My Heart. That song became her biggest selling
record and helped her album go platinum and became a
signature song for the gospel great. It's popularity introduced Adams
to a wider audience and had critics talking about crossover success.

(07:33):
I think there's a misconception that um gospel music artists
are want to be mainstream artists. So you know, there
are a few like myself, kirt Um, like you said,
Rants Mary Mary uh so many of us, the Winans,
definitely Andre Crouch in his day, the Hawkins singers in

(07:56):
their day. What we want to do is we want
to impact world with our music and with our life,
and hope that people enjoy the music if it goes
to the mainstream. Perfect. But you know, there are so
many people who like to put you in a box,
you know, and so they put gospel music in a

(08:18):
nice little box until something tragic happens and they want
us to sing at a prayer breakfast or something like that.
Another Queen of gospel, C. C. Win Is, joined me.
I shared I thought the genre might have been bigger
by now, and wondered what she thought about the growth
of gospel music. I think it's grown in a lot

(08:38):
of ways, and I think it's been stuck in a
lot of ways. I think we're still And I was
just amazing that you're asking me this because I was
in a great meeting the other day and it's in
need of structure, it's in need of more um organization,

(08:59):
you know. I think who we said it earlier when
we started the interview, how gospel music got started, you know,
and and it wasn't really commercialized or for the rest
of the world. It was just what you did on
Sunday mornings, and then it just kind of evolved into
being recorded and getting out there. And I think he

(09:19):
kind of passed the structure for it being intentional to
build something, you know. I think you can look at
country music and you can see that country music had
to have a whole overhaul and after that it blew up.
So I think we're still waiting on that in the
gospel industry. And I'm excited because I think that's about

(09:41):
to happen. You know, people are they're seeing it for
what it is, understanding what it needs, understanding that people
love it all around the world, but still not having
the the stature or the the recognition that it should have.
Of course, Ceci comes from a great musical family, and

(10:03):
so does Cavan Edmonds. He too comes from a great
musical pedigree. He and his older brother Melvin were founding
members of the Great R and B Group After seven
I asked him about any rivalries he might have had
with another family member, his baby brother Kenny, better known
as baby Face. When Kenny starts to make waves and

(10:28):
and you know began his trek. Um is that something
because he he is younger than the both of you. Um,
was that something? You know, there's always sibling rivalry, there's
always that kind of push of you know, baby brother,
older brother, and when the baby starts to move up
a little bit? Was that something that hit you all?

(10:50):
Or were you just happy to see him make the
waves he started to make. I'm talking about in the beginning,
not in the beginning. UM, I don't know that we
all knew how special Kinny was and he was growing up.
What I do know that I do know that music
was his voice. That was that was the one thing

(11:11):
that allowed him to uh communicate if you will. That
was you know, that was how he he got in
tune with to who he was going to be. We
just didn't know who he was going to be. But
he never let go of music. Once he got a handle,
got a grip on it, he never let go. And
it was I'm doing music, do or die. There's nothing

(11:33):
else out here for me. So uh from groups because
back in the day, from this group to that group,
you know, and easy evolving, but all the time growing
and learning from those experiences until he finally I think
he met up with l A at some point in
time and um really started to kick in. Uh, from

(11:54):
that perspective of being a songwriter. You know, he had
read some songs before, but I think it started to
take traction. But uh, I think we all were just
extremely proud of Kenny. Uh. He was such a shy
kid growing up. You can't hate on How do you
hate on him? Too? Who's so quiet? Tim is not
getting in you, He's not giving you any gulf or

(12:17):
anything like that. Kenny just had a real strong love
for music and nothing else really really registered to him
unless he could find a guitar, find some way to
express himselves through music. I talked with another R and
B grade in season one, Anthony Hamilton's is one who
was carrying on the traditional sound of soul. He checked

(12:38):
in with me from his backyard. I think about people
like Aretha or or Bill Withers, it didn't matter what
they did, it spoke from us. You know, even when
Aretha did pop music, it's still spoke from us. You
have been that UM to us and for us? Is
that conscious? Is that um you are? What is that?

(13:02):
You know? I think it's the ability to be honest
in my music and allowed myself to shine through. I
think that Southern Baptists um and that country, that country upbringing.
I think sonically I'm comfortable there, and spiritually I'm it
feels like church. It's not too far from church. And

(13:24):
anytime I deviate from that, you know, I could do
a country song, I've done country music. I can do pop,
but it always comes back to what felt like. It
feels like home, and that's what you talk about, those
songs like the Bill Withers, that matter of fact. You know.
I like being black. I like being all about black
music and back you know, about us just where where

(13:47):
I'm supposed to be. I feel like it's exactly who
Anthony Hamilton's is, and uh, I wouldn't change it for
nothing in the world. My homie Kim joined me as well,
and we talked about how he writes songs and how
the events the world around him shape his music. I
have snippets of songs and clips of ideas that live
in my phone, you know, that go all the way

(14:08):
back to like two thousand twelve. So I'll go through
my phone and pull out the things that are resonating
with me and then I'll start writing to those songs.
And uh, And unlike my other albums, this this album
is you know, all of the love songs on it
are are dedicated to and inspired by, you know, my wife,

(14:30):
you know. Um, So it means something in that way.
And and and it's you know, this is music music
for the times, you know. And I'm writing I'm writing
these songs during uh, the current climate of divisiveness and
our politics and in our country, you know. Um. And
then at the end of making the record, you know,
the pandemic hit. So there's all this stuff going on.

(14:52):
And this is the first time that I have that
I have you know, taken a social position in in
in my music, you know. So the first time that
I've actually directed directly you know, you know, acknowledge some
things that are actually going on in the world in

(15:12):
my music. One more musical note, if you will, before
we move on. We also spoke with the man who
created the theme of our podcast. I turned to jazz
great saxophonist Gerald Albright to capture our musical feeling because
I know you so well and we had such a
longtime friendship. I coupled your persona with the music and

(15:35):
It was very easy to do because I know your
personality and I'm envisioning you coming on the screen with
the music behind you and you're talking about different topics
and things like that. So I wanted it to be
a wonderful marriage between what you would do both visually
and vocally and have the music behind you. Uh, and
it was. It wasn't hard to do. I didn't have

(15:57):
to overthink it. It just kind of came out. And
that's the beauty of creativity. Sometimes you can sit down
in your studio and it just flows, and uh, sometimes
you get writers blocked. I have very few times like that,
but sometimes it just flows. And that was the case
with Eddie's group. It was just um uh something that

(16:17):
felt good initially and we just started to layer on
top of that. So I'm really excited about the song.
Another big thanks to Gerald for a great thing. When
we come back, we'll go to the big and small
screen for those who make their mark there. We heard

(16:49):
from some great musicians season one. Now we turn to
those who make their marks on the screen. Tam La
Man could have been placed with Yolanda Adams and c. C. Wine.
She's made a mark in the gospel world. Her song
take Me to the King has become a modern day classic,
but it's her Tyler Perry created character Cora Brown from

(17:11):
the media franchise that has gained her the most notoriety.
The characters she and her real life husband David Mann,
who plays Mr Brown, are so beloved that some fans
actually see their characters as real people. How many people
actually think that you are Cora a lot of Yesterday, Uh,

(17:36):
I had my grandkids in the car with me and
we want to pick up something to eat, and we've
seen this young two young girls. They had a table
and they had a sign and I just kind of
let the one of that. I said, what shall do?
It was like, we're doing donations for bullying and just
helping young people, you know, any and you know, we're
just taking donations. But they started screaming, I mean like

(17:59):
screaming like somebody was after them. And I was like, yeah,
can't do that, and you know, my kids, my grandkids
in the car, was like they scared me. But it's
it's amazing because the baby came to the car and
she was like, Coral, where's browne? Dude? I said, his
name was my Brown's name is David. She said, where
is David Browne? You know? She was like, I'm not known,

(18:21):
but people do it. They do it all the time.
So we just answered, while actor Lorenz Tape may not
be mistaken for his characters, he has given us a
wealth of them. We talked about the wide range of
roles he's had over the course of his career. Here's
what's amazing about what you do and you're very adept
at this. You have not been so typecast that you

(18:44):
can't play a good guy, a sweet guy, the loving guy,
and the bad guy. You've been able to puzzle piece
both of them together. What does that say to you
for what you've been able to do, As most people
can't do that or not or they're not allowed to
do that. I should say, yeah, sometimes we aren't allowed

(19:07):
to it. Um And for me, I've been able to
work with you know, creatives who see that um my
capabilities that I'm able to to stretch and I'm able
to do the things, uh as an artist that would
allow me to not have a specialty. Really, I feel

(19:27):
like I could do a little bit of it all.
I could play with a good guy, I could play
you know, a guy the the bad guy, sinister guy,
a romantic guy. I can have a little um the
guy who is you know, has a little quirkiness about him,
or you know. I feel like I'm able to do
a bit of it all. And I kind of see
myself as a chameleon in that way. Um that I'm

(19:51):
able to do a little bit of a verything. And
unfortunately I haven't been typecast or held to a certain
kind of role. Um because I'm always talking to people,
letting them know what I like to do and having
a choice. Oftentimes we as artists don't have a choice.

(20:21):
Hollywood hasn't always given black actors much diversity in their roles,
and too often black actors don't have control over the
arc of their characters. DeAndre Whitfield shared with me how
he walked away from a role he loved because the
creators wanted to change his characters character. I had had

(20:42):
a conversation one season with one of the showrunners and
she happened to be a white woman, and she said,
you know this character that I was playing, who was
this saw to the earth guy who you know, was

(21:05):
the cornerstone of you know, the community. She said, we
gotta dirty him up a little bit. I said, okay,
uh may I ask why and she said, he's a
little too good. It's a little too nice. Now, I'm

(21:27):
not gonna put this off on this white woman because
really the burden of the show and it's creative trajectory
was guided by black people. And I said to her,

(21:52):
because I didn't have the benefit of a conversation with
the black folks, I said, think about what we're saying.
If we do this, I said, this character right now,
if he were white, he'd be named Mick Dreamy, I said,

(22:12):
But the Dreamy that's on television. They don't talk about
dirtying him up. You know why, because they don't debate
whether he's too nice or too good, because they believe
that white males can be that nice and can be
that good. I can't tell you how many times during

(22:35):
the playing of that role where I would see on
social media, our own people, our own sisters, going, I
don't trust this brother, because no brother is that good.
Some has got to be wrong with him. And I'll
never forget they started doing all of these things that

(23:01):
went against everything that we had been establishing about him,
his integrity, his dedication to community, all of those things
we're being compromised. We already had enough mails on the show.

(23:24):
We didn't need one more. But somehow they thought it
necessary to use this man as sort of a poster
child for what you're always going to experience with black men,
that if you just stand by, if you're just patient,

(23:45):
if you just wait, eventually they're all the same. Emmy
winner Lauretta Divine talked about how a tragedy moved her
to pursue her dream of acting someone that I loved
dearly was killed, and and and and then I got
this thing in my head said, if you'll never be

(24:06):
an actress if you don't stop this and go be that,
because that's what you're supposed to be. So because of that,
I went in auditioned for Brandeis University and I ended
up auditioning in the airport because of the two planes
were late. And I got into that university because this
old white man, Charlie Moore. I embarrassed him by doing

(24:27):
sister signed you why are you gonna leave me? Man
in the middle of the airport, and it was so
overcome by the whole experience. I got into Brandeis University
and from there, uh, right before I graduated from Brandeis University.
They I went to New York and I auditioned for
for Colored Girls and I got the part, but they

(24:49):
wouldn't let me out of Brandeis because I was I
was still in a show there, and they wouldn't let
me out of that show. They said I had to finish,
and so I didn't get to do Colored Girls then.
But then later in life I get to do Color
Girls in the movie Fatality Perry, which shows you the
circle of everything. When actress Megan Good joined me, I'm
wondered about growing up in the business began. Let me

(25:13):
ask you. One of the interesting things I find is, um,
for those of you who literally grew up in the
public's eye. I mean, I you were a young teenager
when I first met you, but you've been acting since
what for? Yeah, I would say more of a hobby
at for, like doing a lot of extra works, doogie

(25:34):
howser amen, that kind of thing. UM. And then I
think I started taking it really really seriously, like as
a career, UM, when I was about Levin. So here's
what's weird. I know, um, interviewers to ask you this,
what was it like? But you don't know anything else.
I mean that new has it been difficult though with times?
I mean, you know, just growing up is hard enough. Yeah, um, yeah,

(26:00):
it has been at times. But I think, I mean,
I definitely wouldn't have done it any other way. I
think that it's um made me stronger, It's made me
um more aware, it has made me it made me
mature at a young age. But not I didn't lose
my childhood. I didn't lose the fun. I didn't not
do the things that I wanted to do or that

(26:21):
I saw some of the other kids doing. And and
when there were those things that I couldn't do, like
for instance, prom, you know, because I was on homeschool,
so um, I went to like friends problems. But really
for me, it was like, oh, I'm going to the
Kid's Choice Awards, the b E T Wars is a
big deal. I get to wear down. So I had
other things that for me were experiences that I wouldn't
have done differently. Um. But yeah, there there's definitely many, many,

(26:45):
many challenges. Veteran actor and director Bill Duke dropped a
jim when I talked with him. He said his most
valuable lesson was learning that in the end show business
is really about that old cliche, it's the business, not
the show. There's a lot of people coming into the
industry now with passion but no understanding that's a business.

(27:11):
So they're crushed pretty quickly. They have one success because
they did it with passion, but they never thought about
the fact of how are they going to pay their
investors back? And a number of years ago, as they
say over and over, I was very frustrated because I
had going into with my director, going into print, I mean,

(27:37):
studios and networks, pitching my projects and it's a great idea, Bill,
we'll get back and he never got back to me.
And so one day I went to my agent and said,
this is so frustrating. I can't what is what what? What?
What is? What is the problem? They said, you're gonna
get back me. Never do And he said, Bill, did
you answer the essential question in the first five and

(27:59):
the seven minutes in the pitch? I said, the answer
to what question? He said in the first five minutes
of the pitch bill? Because a lot of these creative
executives accountants say one another, how in the hell you're
gonna make me MO money back? M you're talking about

(28:21):
your grandfather was a slave and all the pain he's
gone through. And they were looking and waiting and waiting
and looking and looking and reading. Mm hmm. Is he
ever gonna tell me how in the hell I'm gonna
make me may make me my back? You know, I
was like, that's so cold blood in my agency, Bill,

(28:43):
does someone ask you for five million dollars? Would you
want to know the answer to the same question that
changed my whole way of thinking about too Few entertainers
learned that in the beginning of their careers, but don't
how Comedian George Wallace in that group, he told me

(29:04):
he understood that lesson early on. I could turn business
on you just like that. I could go in the
Benson you know I did. I went to Las Vegas
and I did a deal in Las Vegas where I
broke history. Uh. I have worked Las Vegas longer and
I've done more shows than any African American that ever
worked at That includes Red Fox, Sam Davis Jr. And
Lena Horn owning a show in Las Vegas. For an

(29:26):
African American man to own this show, I think Red
Fox did and fore Walling they have one time, but
but ten years I went to the Flamingo for thirty days,
sixty days, ninety days, and after ninety days, the president
of the hotel says, you ain't going nowhere, And but
I said, okay, I took over the whole thing, and uh,
and that's why I was in Las Vegas along. So

(29:46):
I turned it into business. So everything is not funny
when it's time to make up. Business work, especially black
man telling jokes ain't no jokes. So when people sing
me on stage selling jokes, they don't send me in
the morning sometimes father clock in the morning at the
airport checking out my advertising. Sometimes in Las Vegas Boulevard
looking at the trucks going up and down the street
and not trying to be creative and allspeakers doing business.

(30:08):
Like when I got to Las Vegas, I said, it's
gotta be something different I can do because I owned
this year. I'm responsible for the tickets, I'm responsible for
the marketing. I'm responsible for the directing, everything, lighting, sound,
so many things I gotta do. What a great group
of celebrities. We talked to you during season one, and
we'll have a lot more coming up as we roll

(30:29):
into season two. But before we end the show, I
had to let George Wallace give us his famous tagline
to wrap us up. I'm George Wallace, I love you
and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Now
people have taken my thing, so I had to rewrite it.
I'm George J. Wallace. I love you and there's absolutely
nothing you can do about it, because my love for

(30:51):
you does not require your permission. That's right, no permission needed.
But a great first season Thanks to all of our guests,
from Bencrompt sharing the latest fight against racial injustice to
the foolishly funny mess we chest hear from George Wallace.
We're proud to say we brought you some great conversations

(31:12):
and we're looking forward to doing it all over again.
Don't forget. We drop a new episode every Friday, and
we want you to subscribe so you won't miss any
of our great conversations. One hundred is produced by ed
Gordon Media and distributed by I Heart Media. Carol Johnson

(31:36):
Green and Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our editor is
Lance Patton. Gerald Albright composed and performed our theme. Please
join me on Twitter and Instagram at ed L Gordon
and on Facebook at ed Gordon Media.