December 14, 2020 • 27 mins
Ed sits down with NAACP President, Derrick Johnson to discuss the Civil Rights community's demands on the incoming Biden administration, the future of the NAACP and diversity within Black America.
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the first edition of one hundred,
The Ed Gordon Podcast. I hope this is the first
of many you'll join for what we believe will be
great conversations. I've always loved talking with people, and I
believe a conversation is better than an interview, and that's
what we're going after with this podcast. Some of you
may ask, why did you call it one hundred? Always
(00:45):
try getting the whole story, so that's why we're calling
it one hundred or for some of y'all one hundred.
The podcast will cover a broad range of areas, including politics,
pop culture, current affairs, and will have in depth one
on ones. I'm excited, so I hope you are too.
(01:05):
We'll start with our interview with Derrick Johnson, president of
the n double a CP. Last week, he and other
civil rights leaders met with President elect Joe Biden and
his team to talk about the group's expectations of the
incoming administration. Derek, always good to see you, Thanks for
joining us, Thank you for the opportunity. Let's talk about
(01:27):
what you did last week, and that was have a
meeting with President elect Joe Biden. You requested the meeting,
you and some other civil rights leaders. Did you see
this as political payback? We see as an opportunity for
the seven super rights organizations to establish a relationship with
the new administration. It is our goal to uh inform
(01:50):
this administration around the needs and concerns of our constituency
basis as well as here from them what their priorities
would be for the next years. The headline was that
you're asking for civil rights are and we're told that
you wanted to be a cabinet position, you want some
heft behind it. Talk to me about how you came
(02:12):
up with that and and whether you believe that's going
to happen. But you know you what you measure is
what you achieve and and you can only achieve it
if someone is responsible and accountable for the outcome. And
if you look at Corporate America, many of them who
have taken on diversity as a focus of their business model,
(02:35):
they have a Diversity and Inclusion officer that report directly
to the president and from there they execute organizationwide measures
to ensure that their customer base, who in many cases
now are very diverse, are are related to that should
be any difference with an administration like this we were
(02:56):
not in the people business. We are in the policy
outcome process with civil rights organizations. And if you only
look at one appointment for this cabinet and the novel
over there, you missed the boat that African Americans we
are impacted and we impact every UH function of government. Therefore,
that needs to be a racial equity lens place and
(03:19):
decisions from the top down. One of the things that
to use your analogy people have concerns about with d
n I and Corporate America is that it hasn't always worked.
It hasn't always had that sense of having a direct
report the same kind of dollars in green light, and
often it's the CEO who dictates that, how comfortable are
(03:41):
you that you will see from this administration from Joe Biden,
the as I use the word again, heft that's needed
for this kind of position. Well, yeah, and the Corporate
America it has not always worked. Oftentimes, you see, it
really don't work with a buried the position under somebody
that's not in the c suite. This has to be
(04:01):
a c suite level UH proposition and it has to
be a true commitment. If a corporation, say diversity is
truly uh part of our business model, then it can
work because you're not creating a parallel universe. What you're
doing is embedding a racial lends around decisions for this administration. If,
(04:21):
in fact, and he stated that racial equity is a priority,
a pillar of this administration, well, how are you going
to achieve that? You can only achieve that if you
designate somebody who will report the record to the president
who's charged with the responsibility to make it happy. Do
you see what do you see within the auspices of
(04:42):
this position? Do you see police reform in that you
see judicial justice? What do you see? Because all of
it right, so you know, police reform, judicial dustice, A
lot of that faults on the Department of Justice. But
how is the Department of Justice going to carry out
these mandates? And are they doing it with a true
shalized lands. All police agencies are not equal. All police
(05:03):
officers are not bad, but there are bad police officers,
and there are agencies that that that need to be addressed,
and in many cases you may find that they have
to be addressed in ways in which you have to
have equitable lands. Because if you only go after the
African American land police for agencies and not the white ones.
Then is that true racial equity? If you only go
(05:26):
after the actors who commit fraud, they have to be
all black doctors, but hospitals are committing fraud? Is that
equity because you go to the low level UH corporates
and not the corporate problems. It is that level of
responsibility this person need to be UH charged with not
to carry out the work of an agency, but just
(05:46):
to make sure that agencies are caring out their working
and ways in which it is equitable and open for opportunity.
How comfortable are you with the idea that any of
this can be pushed forward? Uh if in fact, this
administration does not see uh the Senate when that many
(06:07):
are hoping for in Georgia, there's a lot of concern
about we're going to see as we've seen the last
and I hate to say it, but the last UH
let's see eight for twelve years of dysfunction in Washington.
So what we're proposing wouldn't require Senate confirmation. What we
(06:27):
are proposing is that the president empower and adviser to
address racial equity. That's a separate question. But the question
that you raised is is a real question. We have
to be cautiously optimistic around what's going to be possible
with this new administration because the head of the Senate
(06:49):
is known and have already stated uh that is, he's
there to block progress, not to support progress, and he
has been a shrewd operator in the Senate for the
eight years President Obama was in the White House. Mr
vicconnell said it clearly our number one job is to
(07:11):
do all we can to prevent this president from being successful.
That's not about making sure government work. That's malicious intent
to undermine the authority of the executive office. I don't
see him being any difference for the four years of
this administration. Yeah, I was gonna ask that race notwithstanding,
do you believe that McConnell and his cronies, if you will,
(07:34):
um is going to attempt to do the same thing
that that they did in two terms of an Obama administration. Absolutely,
And let's let's let's let's peel the onion back. This
is about money, who gets taxed, who's not taxed, and
how those tax dollars are spending. This is not about personality.
Race is a two in the money game. When capital
(07:55):
is strong and democracy is weak, capital exploit and and
and and pillage. With democracy is strong, we're able to
keep capital at bay and allow for the revenue to
be spread equally. And what we have seen is a
capital class been able to have undue influence on a
(08:15):
Senate so that they can control the flow of money,
so they can dictate the conversation around policy, and the
money directs the policy, not the other way around. Let
me take you to that Georgia race. Um, so many
people eyes on that state. It's going to be a
question of whether or not they can pull off both
(08:38):
of those seats to give a tie and then give
the deciding vote to the vice president Kamala Harris. Um,
what are you hearing? What are you looking at? What
are you seeing as you look on the ground in Georgia?
And it is a the race of the finish line
who can get their voters back to the polls. Runoff
elections have historically uh result the end that was the
(09:01):
thirty percent of the voters not going back to the polls.
And so now we have to work as hard as
possible and in atp we are in Georgia. We have
more branches in the state of Georgia. In any other state,
we're the only group outside of the Black Church and
have a presence in majority of the hundred and fifty
nine counties, so we're on the ground. But in addition
(09:22):
to that, end was unique about Georgia. Fort of all
the ballots that will be cast in the election will
come from nine counties, nine counties who have and the
rest of the state is rural. So where there's a
need to focus on Metro Atlanta, we also need to
focus in Southeast Georgia where we may not win those
counties where we gotta run up the black voter turnout
(09:44):
so we can eat a win out because the election
this past of everyone was only one by one by
about twelve thousand votes after three counties. When we come back,
we'll talk to Derrick Johnson about the direction of the
nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization and we'll look
at the idea of diversity within Black America. Now more
(10:12):
of our conversation with in Double A CP President and
CEO Derrick Johnson. He took over the helm of the
Double A CP in and prior to that, he served
as vice chairman of the Double A CPS National Board
of directors as well as state president for the organization's
Mississippi branch. Let me take you to something that's interesting
(10:33):
that we don't talk about when we talk about diversity,
and that is diversity within our own community. There are
a lot of voss out there, and they all don't
walk in lockstep. Uh. And with social media, many of
those voices who quite frankly rang silent prior to social
media are out there now. Talk about the new challenge
(10:55):
of someone in your position to really represent the black
community when they're a myriad of voices that now can
be heard. YEA. Yeah, you're raised a really important questionnaire.
And there's two questions that you're raised in at once.
Statement right, one is around as concerning the diversity within
the black community. We have very dynamic community. I think
(11:15):
Eugene Robinson's book Disintegration really lays it out better than
I've seeing anybody lay it out. Then the other questions
that you're raising is voice that that media has been
so democratized an individual who otherwise wouldn't wouldn't be heard
or known can command a following on social media platforms
(11:36):
and kind of influenced thoughts. So all of those dynamics
are at play at the same time. How do we
as inn a CP relate to urban voices or real voices?
How do we as a a TP relate to middle
income voices which is the majority of our community versus
the immigrant community from the Caribbean or Africa. How do
we relate to voices that's under thirty five for that matter.
(12:00):
If you're beginning to notice there is a it's a
split between what we will call the millennial voices and
the younger folks because they don't they look at the
millennials being older now and the average age of African
Americans is mere thirty. All of those dynamics come into play.
And then when you add in what medium of communications
that we need to talk to people for the n
a CP. Through my leadership, my goal is to push
(12:24):
the average age of our conversation down to mid thirties
because that's where we are at the people to grow
the necessary support moving forward. We have always been what
I call a double hump Campbell that we get young
people high school through college. After college, they drop off
because life hits them, families, mortgages, student loans, careers. Then
(12:44):
we start getting them back around forty five to fifty
five and they retire out with us now doing my tenure,
My goal is to get right there to that mid thirties,
start having those conversations and having where people are listening.
So that's on all of the social media platforms. That's
two podcasts such as this, that's wherever we have hears listening.
(13:06):
We communicate. But we also understand that we have to
be quite lingual because all black people don't speak the
same language, so we got to speak to the language
of the audience that we are pursuing. Is there a
danger and I'm not talking about justin Black America, but
we'll talk about Black America right now, is when you
start to look at the kind of power that that
(13:28):
moves um, particularly when you talk about economic power. You
don't really roll into that in sheer numbers until you
get about thirty five forty UM. Is there concern that
you know you can look to give uh power UH
and leadership too young so to speak. I think the
(13:53):
agism has been an issue within our community, us versus them,
young versus oll. I think it's all about ski know,
some people can handle more than others Earlier in life.
Some people have to go through some things, get the
experience behind them, get the training behind them. In all cases,
I say that intergenerational models have been the most successful
(14:14):
approaches in our community, whether they come to advocacy or
business and anything else. Because if you already have a
one generation or approach, you're gonna die when that generation dies.
So you have to have an intergenerational model when you're
talking about power, advocacy or even business for that batter,
I want to ask you what you've been able to
do with the organization. It seems to me that during
(14:37):
your tenure you become more aggressive with the organization, being
more proactive if you will. Is that fair? And was
that something you sought out to do? If you look
at our mission, our mission is broken into two parts,
improve the quality of life and your list the categories
or fight against discrimination. And far too long we've been
seeing as the organization that's fighting against discrimination as opposed
(14:59):
who worked at towards are proven a party of life.
If we're always fighting against something, it's like the biblical
story of the babies going down the river. We could
always try to grab babies out of the river, but
we need to go upstream and figure out who throwing
the babies in the river? What public policies in places
called to the heart? What conditions are in place that
we need to be addressing. How can we perfect models
(15:19):
that may have been set up for our benefit but
we've walked away from comeback and rebuilding that the look
like we need to look looking towards. How do we
as a legacy organization look forward to the opportunity as
opposed to the backwards to the legacy of the problems.
What's the hardest thing for you to deal with from
your perch? Uh convince our people, our community of their power.
(15:48):
Far too often we will even convene with experts in
the room and the conversation will go towards the deficits
and not the opportunities. It is frustrating because you see
it up and down the community ladder, Brother's age and
come of the case. If you if you open up
the conversation about the Aftermaican community, we instantly go to
(16:11):
the deficits. That is that's hard. It's frustrated because I'm
sitting in slate. Do you all see the success we
have achieved and how do we uh bring all this
together and have even more impactful success for more people.
That's the most difficult thing in this position. We take
you back to where we started, and that's with the
Biden administration, the incoming Biden administration, UM positions. We are
(16:37):
now starting to see that cabinet fill itself out. Uh.
We see that Lloyd Austin is now the nominee for
Defense Secretary, UM. Congresswoman Fudge is looking to man the helmet, HUD.
You've got Vice President Kamala Harris. There's been a promise
of an African American female for the Supreme Court. Uh,
(17:02):
is that going to be enough? At the end of
the day. About policy, it's about outcomes. People are important
to get there. It's about the outcomes that we're able
to drive so that we can address systemic racism that
is decades long, structural barriers that must we overcome. So,
(17:23):
whether or not someone is in the seat, we have
a person in the seat right now at HUD who
was more destructive towards he wrote in some rights percusions
Bink Ben Carson, right, And so it's not about his race.
It was about his mindset around what was possible, who
should be included, and the policy that is driven behind that. Yet, you,
(17:47):
and I know aesthetics are important to the general public.
They want to see a face behind that look. I'm
not saying it's either or. I'm saying there's a hierarchy
of reality. That hierarchy of reality is if we're talking
about a racial equity frame, that's about public policy. Now
you start talking about who's best situated to be in
(18:08):
the seat to carry out a racial equity frame. I
seem I tend to believe that we have far too
many African Americans with the capacity, the ability, the skills,
but not the access to the opportunity. So I'm always
pushing for those individuals. But it starts with the policy.
Let me take you four years down the road. What's
(18:31):
a successful Bindit administration looked like to you? It's hard,
They're hard to say, right, because it had so much
it would it would require so much of a Senate
to move the voters we need to move, and without
the control of the Senate, then we have to modify
our expectations around what could be done through executive order
(18:53):
or through administrative regulatory ships. Right then, when you get
to the juncture of two, you have a resetting of
what the commerce could look like. All over again. And
so because that's a perfect world, we have the influence
control of the Senate. Now we have the influence control
of the Senate UH two years and now so we
had four years runaway, which is unheard of for both presidents.
(19:17):
That mean we can once and for all address the
problems with delivery of public education to all children that's
both equal and of quality. That we can restructure one's
expectation in terms of economic opportunities and outcomes. We can
address and prevent from happening again. The student that loan
(19:37):
crisis that limited for far too many people in this country.
The number one point for African Americans government yea. And
many of them are in those jobs because they couldn't
find a private sector job. But they went and they
did everything that was supposed to do. They went to
college on student loans. Some of them went and got
a basss on student loans. That became teachers, They became
(19:58):
state employees. When it's for employees now they are out
of balance. They have more debt then then their job
would allow them to pay off in a reasonable amount
of time. So they're upside down in their quality of life.
We have to address that. So there are so many things.
And it's funny you ask the question is the government
(20:19):
is big? It touched all of us. And because it's
so big, uh, pick the agency and I'll say this
what a good thing would be in for you. There's
just so much. Deeric Johnson always good to talk to you, man,
keep up the good fight. Look, you know you have
short questions. I have long answers. But I love kind
of say thanks a lot again, said Derry Johnson for
(21:01):
joining us. Before we close, let me give you a
little something to think about. The question of the in
double A CPS relevance is something that has been debated
for years now. The Venerable Organization's historical importance has never
been in question. For some, it's been a matter of
has its time passed. Let's be clear, the world is
(21:24):
not the same as it was when the organization was
formed in nineteen o nine. But what hasn't changed, unfortunately,
is the fight and struggle for justice and equality that
is still very real and very needed, but is not
nineteen sixty and the voices of change are not as
singular as they once were. The black community's direction was
(21:48):
never monolithic, However, today the ability for many others to
hold virtual megaphones and sway is greater than ever before.
The leadership that Derek John's and another traditional civil rights
leaders of today must give is vastly different than that
of their predecessors. The advent of social media and technology
(22:10):
has made it easier for people, some deserving and others
more dubious, to gain an audience and an ability to influence.
It also allows for a greater degree of challenge to groups,
like the end of a c P. This, coupled with
the new guards natural questions of the best way to
do things, brings a real challenge to traditional leadership. Those
(22:33):
generational disagreements have always occurred, they just weren't as public
as they are today. Look at the issue of defunding
the police. There are multiple thoughts about what that means
and how our community should feel about it. Look, the
debate is fair, it just not need be as publicly
personal as it's become by those of influence. It shouldn't
(22:55):
be about the ego stroke of my thought is the
best way as much as it should be about simply
finding the right way to save lives. Too much of
our world plays out on the Graham and cable TV
that can often bring another level of consternation and frankly
mess that clouds the shared goal of bringing justice to
(23:17):
black folks. We need to find better ways to let
all voices be heard and find a majority school of
thought that moves forward and speaks for most of Black America. Admittedly,
that's more theoretical than practical. Right now, Derrick Johnson's approach
so far has been balanced, and he has brought more
(23:39):
attention and light back to the August organization he heads.
He understands the idea that new blood is needed and
vital to the fight for justice. He also understands the
significance of history and life's knowledge. But leaders are only
as successful as their followers allow. Let's try to be
(24:00):
smart and no there is room for all opinions, and
that compromise and action are needed more than ego and
Instagram likes. Well, that's it for the first episode of
one hundred the Ed Gordon Podcast, and a big thank
you for joining us. Next week, Reverend Raphael Warnock, Democratic
(24:20):
Senate candidate in Georgia joins us. His victory could be
crucial to the future of the Biden administration. Here's a
bit from that interview folks have been urging me to
run for years, and it is based on my record.
They've seen me out here doing the work when I
wasn't running for anything, And I think that's part of
(24:41):
the case. I'm making a good sign for what somebody
will do when they're in offices. What were they doing
before they were before they were in office, before they
were running, Before I was running, you know, my church
was raising money to baild poor people out of jail,
because I don't think that people, you know, baron should
be based on how much money you have. That doesn't
(25:03):
that improve whether or not it's safe or unsafe for
the community. And so we've been pushing for bail reform.
I've been expunging criminal arrest records so that people can
have a chance to get a job and and and
to rent an apartment. These are folks who don't even
have a record, they're just having arrest record. Underscoring longstanding
(25:25):
disparities and healthcare uh that were already there, The disproportion
and impact on communities of color who deal with the
comorbidities of high pertension and diabetes that exacerbate the impact
of the virus on on these communities. Dying at a
higher level, hospitalized at a higher level, found myself in
(25:46):
the middle of that, and then the tragic flashpoints of
George Floyd and Brianna Taylor and I'm an Aubrey right
here in Georgia, underscoring the ways in which black bodies
are not stafe. Yeah, jogging, driving, sleeping in your own house,
(26:11):
these are issues I've been working on for years. That's
next week, and then we'll have a Christmas music special
for you. We'll hear some of your favorite holiday music
and talk about those special songs with musical guests including
Kim Yolanda Adams, Anthony Hamilton's and Moore. We've got many
great shows and people coming your way. Stay tuned. Tell
(26:34):
somebody about us. Remember if you were talking about it,
we're talking about it. We'll see you next week. One
is produced by ed Gordon Media and distributed by I
Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green and Sharie Weldon are our bookers.
Our editor is Lance Patton. Gerald. Albright composed and performed
(26:58):
our theme. Please join on Twitter and Instagram at ed
L Gordon and on Facebook at ed Gordon Media.
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the first edition of one hundred,
The Ed Gordon Podcast. I hope this is the first
of many you'll join for what we believe will be
great conversations. I've always loved talking with people, and I
believe a conversation is better than an interview, and that's
what we're going after with this podcast. Some of you
may ask, why did you call it one hundred? Always
(00:45):
try getting the whole story, so that's why we're calling
it one hundred or for some of y'all one hundred.
The podcast will cover a broad range of areas, including politics,
pop culture, current affairs, and will have in depth one
on ones. I'm excited, so I hope you are too.
(01:05):
We'll start with our interview with Derrick Johnson, president of
the n double a CP. Last week, he and other
civil rights leaders met with President elect Joe Biden and
his team to talk about the group's expectations of the
incoming administration. Derek, always good to see you, Thanks for
joining us, Thank you for the opportunity. Let's talk about
(01:27):
what you did last week, and that was have a
meeting with President elect Joe Biden. You requested the meeting,
you and some other civil rights leaders. Did you see
this as political payback? We see as an opportunity for
the seven super rights organizations to establish a relationship with
the new administration. It is our goal to uh inform
(01:50):
this administration around the needs and concerns of our constituency
basis as well as here from them what their priorities
would be for the next years. The headline was that
you're asking for civil rights are and we're told that
you wanted to be a cabinet position, you want some
heft behind it. Talk to me about how you came
(02:12):
up with that and and whether you believe that's going
to happen. But you know you what you measure is
what you achieve and and you can only achieve it
if someone is responsible and accountable for the outcome. And
if you look at Corporate America, many of them who
have taken on diversity as a focus of their business model,
(02:35):
they have a Diversity and Inclusion officer that report directly
to the president and from there they execute organizationwide measures
to ensure that their customer base, who in many cases
now are very diverse, are are related to that should
be any difference with an administration like this we were
(02:56):
not in the people business. We are in the policy
outcome process with civil rights organizations. And if you only
look at one appointment for this cabinet and the novel
over there, you missed the boat that African Americans we
are impacted and we impact every UH function of government. Therefore,
that needs to be a racial equity lens place and
(03:19):
decisions from the top down. One of the things that
to use your analogy people have concerns about with d
n I and Corporate America is that it hasn't always worked.
It hasn't always had that sense of having a direct
report the same kind of dollars in green light, and
often it's the CEO who dictates that, how comfortable are
(03:41):
you that you will see from this administration from Joe Biden,
the as I use the word again, heft that's needed
for this kind of position. Well, yeah, and the Corporate
America it has not always worked. Oftentimes, you see, it
really don't work with a buried the position under somebody
that's not in the c suite. This has to be
(04:01):
a c suite level UH proposition and it has to
be a true commitment. If a corporation, say diversity is
truly uh part of our business model, then it can
work because you're not creating a parallel universe. What you're
doing is embedding a racial lends around decisions for this administration. If,
(04:21):
in fact, and he stated that racial equity is a priority,
a pillar of this administration, well, how are you going
to achieve that? You can only achieve that if you
designate somebody who will report the record to the president
who's charged with the responsibility to make it happy. Do
you see what do you see within the auspices of
(04:42):
this position? Do you see police reform in that you
see judicial justice? What do you see? Because all of
it right, so you know, police reform, judicial dustice, A
lot of that faults on the Department of Justice. But
how is the Department of Justice going to carry out
these mandates? And are they doing it with a true
shalized lands. All police agencies are not equal. All police
(05:03):
officers are not bad, but there are bad police officers,
and there are agencies that that that need to be addressed,
and in many cases you may find that they have
to be addressed in ways in which you have to
have equitable lands. Because if you only go after the
African American land police for agencies and not the white ones.
Then is that true racial equity? If you only go
(05:26):
after the actors who commit fraud, they have to be
all black doctors, but hospitals are committing fraud? Is that
equity because you go to the low level UH corporates
and not the corporate problems. It is that level of
responsibility this person need to be UH charged with not
to carry out the work of an agency, but just
(05:46):
to make sure that agencies are caring out their working
and ways in which it is equitable and open for opportunity.
How comfortable are you with the idea that any of
this can be pushed forward? Uh if in fact, this
administration does not see uh the Senate when that many
(06:07):
are hoping for in Georgia, there's a lot of concern
about we're going to see as we've seen the last
and I hate to say it, but the last UH
let's see eight for twelve years of dysfunction in Washington.
So what we're proposing wouldn't require Senate confirmation. What we
(06:27):
are proposing is that the president empower and adviser to
address racial equity. That's a separate question. But the question
that you raised is is a real question. We have
to be cautiously optimistic around what's going to be possible
with this new administration because the head of the Senate
(06:49):
is known and have already stated uh that is, he's
there to block progress, not to support progress, and he
has been a shrewd operator in the Senate for the
eight years President Obama was in the White House. Mr
vicconnell said it clearly our number one job is to
(07:11):
do all we can to prevent this president from being successful.
That's not about making sure government work. That's malicious intent
to undermine the authority of the executive office. I don't
see him being any difference for the four years of
this administration. Yeah, I was gonna ask that race notwithstanding,
do you believe that McConnell and his cronies, if you will,
(07:34):
um is going to attempt to do the same thing
that that they did in two terms of an Obama administration. Absolutely,
And let's let's let's let's peel the onion back. This
is about money, who gets taxed, who's not taxed, and
how those tax dollars are spending. This is not about personality.
Race is a two in the money game. When capital
(07:55):
is strong and democracy is weak, capital exploit and and
and and pillage. With democracy is strong, we're able to
keep capital at bay and allow for the revenue to
be spread equally. And what we have seen is a
capital class been able to have undue influence on a
(08:15):
Senate so that they can control the flow of money,
so they can dictate the conversation around policy, and the
money directs the policy, not the other way around. Let
me take you to that Georgia race. Um, so many
people eyes on that state. It's going to be a
question of whether or not they can pull off both
(08:38):
of those seats to give a tie and then give
the deciding vote to the vice president Kamala Harris. Um,
what are you hearing? What are you looking at? What
are you seeing as you look on the ground in Georgia?
And it is a the race of the finish line
who can get their voters back to the polls. Runoff
elections have historically uh result the end that was the
(09:01):
thirty percent of the voters not going back to the polls.
And so now we have to work as hard as
possible and in atp we are in Georgia. We have
more branches in the state of Georgia. In any other state,
we're the only group outside of the Black Church and
have a presence in majority of the hundred and fifty
nine counties, so we're on the ground. But in addition
(09:22):
to that, end was unique about Georgia. Fort of all
the ballots that will be cast in the election will
come from nine counties, nine counties who have and the
rest of the state is rural. So where there's a
need to focus on Metro Atlanta, we also need to
focus in Southeast Georgia where we may not win those
counties where we gotta run up the black voter turnout
(09:44):
so we can eat a win out because the election
this past of everyone was only one by one by
about twelve thousand votes after three counties. When we come back,
we'll talk to Derrick Johnson about the direction of the
nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization and we'll look
at the idea of diversity within Black America. Now more
(10:12):
of our conversation with in Double A CP President and
CEO Derrick Johnson. He took over the helm of the
Double A CP in and prior to that, he served
as vice chairman of the Double A CPS National Board
of directors as well as state president for the organization's
Mississippi branch. Let me take you to something that's interesting
(10:33):
that we don't talk about when we talk about diversity,
and that is diversity within our own community. There are
a lot of voss out there, and they all don't
walk in lockstep. Uh. And with social media, many of
those voices who quite frankly rang silent prior to social
media are out there now. Talk about the new challenge
(10:55):
of someone in your position to really represent the black
community when they're a myriad of voices that now can
be heard. YEA. Yeah, you're raised a really important questionnaire.
And there's two questions that you're raised in at once.
Statement right, one is around as concerning the diversity within
the black community. We have very dynamic community. I think
(11:15):
Eugene Robinson's book Disintegration really lays it out better than
I've seeing anybody lay it out. Then the other questions
that you're raising is voice that that media has been
so democratized an individual who otherwise wouldn't wouldn't be heard
or known can command a following on social media platforms
(11:36):
and kind of influenced thoughts. So all of those dynamics
are at play at the same time. How do we
as inn a CP relate to urban voices or real voices?
How do we as a a TP relate to middle
income voices which is the majority of our community versus
the immigrant community from the Caribbean or Africa. How do
we relate to voices that's under thirty five for that matter.
(12:00):
If you're beginning to notice there is a it's a
split between what we will call the millennial voices and
the younger folks because they don't they look at the
millennials being older now and the average age of African
Americans is mere thirty. All of those dynamics come into play.
And then when you add in what medium of communications
that we need to talk to people for the n
a CP. Through my leadership, my goal is to push
(12:24):
the average age of our conversation down to mid thirties
because that's where we are at the people to grow
the necessary support moving forward. We have always been what
I call a double hump Campbell that we get young
people high school through college. After college, they drop off
because life hits them, families, mortgages, student loans, careers. Then
(12:44):
we start getting them back around forty five to fifty
five and they retire out with us now doing my tenure,
My goal is to get right there to that mid thirties,
start having those conversations and having where people are listening.
So that's on all of the social media platforms. That's
two podcasts such as this, that's wherever we have hears listening.
(13:06):
We communicate. But we also understand that we have to
be quite lingual because all black people don't speak the
same language, so we got to speak to the language
of the audience that we are pursuing. Is there a
danger and I'm not talking about justin Black America, but
we'll talk about Black America right now, is when you
start to look at the kind of power that that
(13:28):
moves um, particularly when you talk about economic power. You
don't really roll into that in sheer numbers until you
get about thirty five forty UM. Is there concern that
you know you can look to give uh power UH
and leadership too young so to speak. I think the
(13:53):
agism has been an issue within our community, us versus them,
young versus oll. I think it's all about ski know,
some people can handle more than others Earlier in life.
Some people have to go through some things, get the
experience behind them, get the training behind them. In all cases,
I say that intergenerational models have been the most successful
(14:14):
approaches in our community, whether they come to advocacy or
business and anything else. Because if you already have a
one generation or approach, you're gonna die when that generation dies.
So you have to have an intergenerational model when you're
talking about power, advocacy or even business for that batter,
I want to ask you what you've been able to
do with the organization. It seems to me that during
(14:37):
your tenure you become more aggressive with the organization, being
more proactive if you will. Is that fair? And was
that something you sought out to do? If you look
at our mission, our mission is broken into two parts,
improve the quality of life and your list the categories
or fight against discrimination. And far too long we've been
seeing as the organization that's fighting against discrimination as opposed
(14:59):
who worked at towards are proven a party of life.
If we're always fighting against something, it's like the biblical
story of the babies going down the river. We could
always try to grab babies out of the river, but
we need to go upstream and figure out who throwing
the babies in the river? What public policies in places
called to the heart? What conditions are in place that
we need to be addressing. How can we perfect models
(15:19):
that may have been set up for our benefit but
we've walked away from comeback and rebuilding that the look
like we need to look looking towards. How do we
as a legacy organization look forward to the opportunity as
opposed to the backwards to the legacy of the problems.
What's the hardest thing for you to deal with from
your perch? Uh convince our people, our community of their power.
(15:48):
Far too often we will even convene with experts in
the room and the conversation will go towards the deficits
and not the opportunities. It is frustrating because you see
it up and down the community ladder, Brother's age and
come of the case. If you if you open up
the conversation about the Aftermaican community, we instantly go to
(16:11):
the deficits. That is that's hard. It's frustrated because I'm
sitting in slate. Do you all see the success we
have achieved and how do we uh bring all this
together and have even more impactful success for more people.
That's the most difficult thing in this position. We take
you back to where we started, and that's with the
Biden administration, the incoming Biden administration, UM positions. We are
(16:37):
now starting to see that cabinet fill itself out. Uh.
We see that Lloyd Austin is now the nominee for
Defense Secretary, UM. Congresswoman Fudge is looking to man the helmet, HUD.
You've got Vice President Kamala Harris. There's been a promise
of an African American female for the Supreme Court. Uh,
(17:02):
is that going to be enough? At the end of
the day. About policy, it's about outcomes. People are important
to get there. It's about the outcomes that we're able
to drive so that we can address systemic racism that
is decades long, structural barriers that must we overcome. So,
(17:23):
whether or not someone is in the seat, we have
a person in the seat right now at HUD who
was more destructive towards he wrote in some rights percusions
Bink Ben Carson, right, And so it's not about his race.
It was about his mindset around what was possible, who
should be included, and the policy that is driven behind that. Yet, you,
(17:47):
and I know aesthetics are important to the general public.
They want to see a face behind that look. I'm
not saying it's either or. I'm saying there's a hierarchy
of reality. That hierarchy of reality is if we're talking
about a racial equity frame, that's about public policy. Now
you start talking about who's best situated to be in
(18:08):
the seat to carry out a racial equity frame. I
seem I tend to believe that we have far too
many African Americans with the capacity, the ability, the skills,
but not the access to the opportunity. So I'm always
pushing for those individuals. But it starts with the policy.
Let me take you four years down the road. What's
(18:31):
a successful Bindit administration looked like to you? It's hard,
They're hard to say, right, because it had so much
it would it would require so much of a Senate
to move the voters we need to move, and without
the control of the Senate, then we have to modify
our expectations around what could be done through executive order
(18:53):
or through administrative regulatory ships. Right then, when you get
to the juncture of two, you have a resetting of
what the commerce could look like. All over again. And
so because that's a perfect world, we have the influence
control of the Senate. Now we have the influence control
of the Senate UH two years and now so we
had four years runaway, which is unheard of for both presidents.
(19:17):
That mean we can once and for all address the
problems with delivery of public education to all children that's
both equal and of quality. That we can restructure one's
expectation in terms of economic opportunities and outcomes. We can
address and prevent from happening again. The student that loan
(19:37):
crisis that limited for far too many people in this country.
The number one point for African Americans government yea. And
many of them are in those jobs because they couldn't
find a private sector job. But they went and they
did everything that was supposed to do. They went to
college on student loans. Some of them went and got
a basss on student loans. That became teachers, They became
(19:58):
state employees. When it's for employees now they are out
of balance. They have more debt then then their job
would allow them to pay off in a reasonable amount
of time. So they're upside down in their quality of life.
We have to address that. So there are so many things.
And it's funny you ask the question is the government
(20:19):
is big? It touched all of us. And because it's
so big, uh, pick the agency and I'll say this
what a good thing would be in for you. There's
just so much. Deeric Johnson always good to talk to you, man,
keep up the good fight. Look, you know you have
short questions. I have long answers. But I love kind
of say thanks a lot again, said Derry Johnson for
(21:01):
joining us. Before we close, let me give you a
little something to think about. The question of the in
double A CPS relevance is something that has been debated
for years now. The Venerable Organization's historical importance has never
been in question. For some, it's been a matter of
has its time passed. Let's be clear, the world is
(21:24):
not the same as it was when the organization was
formed in nineteen o nine. But what hasn't changed, unfortunately,
is the fight and struggle for justice and equality that
is still very real and very needed, but is not
nineteen sixty and the voices of change are not as
singular as they once were. The black community's direction was
(21:48):
never monolithic, However, today the ability for many others to
hold virtual megaphones and sway is greater than ever before.
The leadership that Derek John's and another traditional civil rights
leaders of today must give is vastly different than that
of their predecessors. The advent of social media and technology
(22:10):
has made it easier for people, some deserving and others
more dubious, to gain an audience and an ability to influence.
It also allows for a greater degree of challenge to groups,
like the end of a c P. This, coupled with
the new guards natural questions of the best way to
do things, brings a real challenge to traditional leadership. Those
(22:33):
generational disagreements have always occurred, they just weren't as public
as they are today. Look at the issue of defunding
the police. There are multiple thoughts about what that means
and how our community should feel about it. Look, the
debate is fair, it just not need be as publicly
personal as it's become by those of influence. It shouldn't
(22:55):
be about the ego stroke of my thought is the
best way as much as it should be about simply
finding the right way to save lives. Too much of
our world plays out on the Graham and cable TV
that can often bring another level of consternation and frankly
mess that clouds the shared goal of bringing justice to
(23:17):
black folks. We need to find better ways to let
all voices be heard and find a majority school of
thought that moves forward and speaks for most of Black America. Admittedly,
that's more theoretical than practical. Right now, Derrick Johnson's approach
so far has been balanced, and he has brought more
(23:39):
attention and light back to the August organization he heads.
He understands the idea that new blood is needed and
vital to the fight for justice. He also understands the
significance of history and life's knowledge. But leaders are only
as successful as their followers allow. Let's try to be
(24:00):
smart and no there is room for all opinions, and
that compromise and action are needed more than ego and
Instagram likes. Well, that's it for the first episode of
one hundred the Ed Gordon Podcast, and a big thank
you for joining us. Next week, Reverend Raphael Warnock, Democratic
(24:20):
Senate candidate in Georgia joins us. His victory could be
crucial to the future of the Biden administration. Here's a
bit from that interview folks have been urging me to
run for years, and it is based on my record.
They've seen me out here doing the work when I
wasn't running for anything, And I think that's part of
(24:41):
the case. I'm making a good sign for what somebody
will do when they're in offices. What were they doing
before they were before they were in office, before they
were running, Before I was running, you know, my church
was raising money to baild poor people out of jail,
because I don't think that people, you know, baron should
be based on how much money you have. That doesn't
(25:03):
that improve whether or not it's safe or unsafe for
the community. And so we've been pushing for bail reform.
I've been expunging criminal arrest records so that people can
have a chance to get a job and and and
to rent an apartment. These are folks who don't even
have a record, they're just having arrest record. Underscoring longstanding
(25:25):
disparities and healthcare uh that were already there, The disproportion
and impact on communities of color who deal with the
comorbidities of high pertension and diabetes that exacerbate the impact
of the virus on on these communities. Dying at a
higher level, hospitalized at a higher level, found myself in
(25:46):
the middle of that, and then the tragic flashpoints of
George Floyd and Brianna Taylor and I'm an Aubrey right
here in Georgia, underscoring the ways in which black bodies
are not stafe. Yeah, jogging, driving, sleeping in your own house,
(26:11):
these are issues I've been working on for years. That's
next week, and then we'll have a Christmas music special
for you. We'll hear some of your favorite holiday music
and talk about those special songs with musical guests including
Kim Yolanda Adams, Anthony Hamilton's and Moore. We've got many
great shows and people coming your way. Stay tuned. Tell
(26:34):
somebody about us. Remember if you were talking about it,
we're talking about it. We'll see you next week. One
is produced by ed Gordon Media and distributed by I
Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green and Sharie Weldon are our bookers.
Our editor is Lance Patton. Gerald. Albright composed and performed
(26:58):
our theme. Please join on Twitter and Instagram at ed
L Gordon and on Facebook at ed Gordon Media.
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