December 17, 2021 • 33 mins
Ed talks with Donnita Hathaway, the daughter of famed singer Donny Hathaway. They discuss his fight with mental illness, that led him to commit suicide and how his death has fueled her to become an advocate for mental health. They also talk about his tremendous musical legacy including his influence on generations of musicians and fans; including the loves for his classic holiday song, This Christmas.
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Gordon Podcast. Next,
a conversation with mental health advocate Danita Hathaway, and yes,
there is a connection. Iconic singer Donny Hathaway is her father.
Danita was only two when her father committed suicide. His
(00:42):
death has motivated her to bringing awareness to mental illness.
It's also moved her to create a project in his
name to provide help to those fighting mental illness. But
we started out by talking about her father's connection to
this special time of year. Here, Donita, let's talk about
the song that everybody talks about around this time, and
(01:05):
that is your dad's song this Christmas. It really is.
You know, sometimes we put iconic and classic on things
that aren't, but this truly does fit that bill. Talk
to me about what that song means to you personally. First, yes, uh,
First of all, thank you so much for having me. Um.
You know, this Christmas is um. You know, for me
(01:25):
and for a lot of people, a song that's very
near and dear to us. I know, for me, Christmas
doesn't begin until I hear my my father's rendition of
that song. And so you know, it is the soundtrack
for a lot of our you know, festive and happy
times during the holidays. And you know that's the thing
about Donnie Hathaway. When he sang a song, you believed him.
(01:46):
So when when he says this Christmas will be a
very special Christmas for me, it's like, yeah, yes, you know,
right on, brother. So um, there's there's nothing like the original,
even though I actually appreciate the remix because I think
it shows, you know, homage to a great artist and
a great song. But you know, this Christmas is uh,
(02:09):
you know, it's actually fifty years old, um, as of
last year, and that song has been around for fifty years. Ye.
So you know it's a timeless classic. It's ours, you know,
and so I'm I'm proud that you know, my father
is has you know, one of those songs that's near
and dear to all of us. Yeah. You know what's
interesting you say it's ours, and that is so very true.
(02:29):
I mean, you know, there's so many Christmas classics that
were written in you know, the thirties and forties, and
and they were for the majority culture first and foremost, um,
But this one really speaks to black folks. It is ours.
We have ownership of that to a great degree absolutely,
(02:50):
and a big huge shoutout to Nadine mckenner who is
the songwriter for the song and Rip Pile, the um
producer and musician on that track. You know, they start
off the song you know, hang all the missile So
I'm gonna get to know you better. You know, you
don't really think of something like that in in your
your typical Christmas all. So you know, it has so
(03:13):
much soul in you know, so much flavor, and you know,
at the same time be be festive and again be
our so yeah, and and it has, let us not
put it in a corner, it has grown to what
the media likes to call mainstream. You know, everyone knows
the song now and and and loves it for what
it is. But you raise an interesting point in what
(03:34):
you are doing with your life and um, you know,
it's so poignant with what your your father had to
deal with and suffer through throughout his life. And that
is that as festive as these times are, they can
be very difficult for some people. It is a time
of depression for some. Uh some look around and see
all of what we like to post on Instagram, which
(03:57):
isn't always true. What the the media portray praise, which
isn't always true. It's a difficult time for many, yes, So, Um,
the way I like to look at it is, you know,
there's something about the holidays that does bring out, you know,
a sense of community, a sense of giving. Um, there's
constant you know, food drives and coat drives, you know
(04:18):
for those who are hungry, those who are homeless. But
I think what's missing in that and all of those
things are necessary, but you know, the catalysts to someone's
situation that can have them, you know, in such dire straits.
And so I know for me, Christmas hasn't been the
same since my mom passed. Um. If you have someone
who's passed during this time of year, you know, it's
(04:40):
a difficult time. Um. You know there is the the
lie that you know you see on social media and
you know these commercials you have to buy this because
you need to show your loved ones that you love them.
In order to do that, you know, you have to
spend all of this exuberant amount of money. Um, you know,
and you know I understand that. But for me, there's
(05:03):
there's a gap of you know, really checking in with
our folks this time of year, like, don't assume because
you know, the lights are pretty, and the trees are pretty,
and the gifts are you know expensive, um that you know, um,
that we're not suffering as a really as a community especially.
You can take this year, you know, as a as
a great example. A lot of folks are afraid to
(05:26):
even meet with their families, you know, due to COVID.
And so you know what about those folks who are alone,
those who actually have tensions with their family members, um,
those who have health issues, those who have suffered at loss.
We just saw the tornadoes that ravage you know, a
nice chuck of this country. You know what, what about
those folks? And so I have an initiative where you know,
(05:46):
I want people to you know, think back even from
the start of the year. You know, the folks that
you had your thoughts and prayers for or whatever they
were going through. Let's check back in with them with
a physical to not just a like or a Facebook message.
Pick up the phone, you know, knock on the door safely, um,
(06:08):
and and make sure you know, like, hey, I know
you were going through a hard time earlier this year,
or you know, etcetera, etcetera. Um, you know, I just
want to make sure that you actually have a family
to spend the holidays with, or I want you to
know that you're loved and appreciate it. That physical touch
of of of having empathy and sympathy goes a long
(06:31):
long way, because no one wants to spend the holidays
a long Let me ask you something, And I'm curious.
My my father died when I was eleven suddenly, and
I have uh you know, if you take away when
you were one to three years old, you know, I
have eight or nine years of true memories with my
dad even though he you know, departed this world when
(06:54):
I was was young. You, on the other hand, Uh,
your dad died when you were too, if my math
is correct. Um, So I'm curious. To a great degree.
I think we those that lose parents early, um, you know,
somewhat fantasize our relationships with them throughout We we seek
(07:19):
I think acceptance and want um that you can't have physically.
As you say, um, what what has that been like
for you? Because to a great degree, you knew your dad,
like most of us, knew your father from Afar, from
his music, from the few videos that we have of
him talk to me about that. Yes, UM, I want
(07:42):
to say for me, it's actually it's absolutely been family
and friends making sure that I was okay. Um. I'm
born and raised UM in Chicago. UM. You know, We're
all our families from Chicago, and so I've been blessed
to you know, travel where Right now I live in
Atlanta time, but every every holiday, UM season, I go
(08:05):
home and I'm blessed to still have my great aunt,
UM Donnie's aunt, who is still alive like she's in
the nineties. UM. I just lost my bonus dad. I
have a brother and his father passed away this year. UM.
But we will normally get together, me, my bonus dad
and my brother, and we would do what a lot
(08:27):
of families do, and that was, you know, have something
to eating and go see a movie. Um. But there is, uh,
there is an extra effort that I will say that
my family would would um purposefully make sure that you know,
we were together, we were spending time together, that we
knew that we were loved and appreciate it. And Uh,
(08:48):
if you would have told me last year that that
would have been the last Christmas with even my bonus dad,
who has been in my life, my entire life. You know,
he's really he really um embraced me as if I
was his own, like I was his daughter, you know. Um,
you know, and I cherished that time because now now
he's gone, and so you know, I'm grateful for that.
We're gonna continue this um and honoring all of our
(09:10):
lost family members, me and my brother and you know,
we we want to shine a light on their their legacy,
you know, their memories and say thank you. I wondered
what it's been like for her to have a father
whose image is still ubiquitous and voice is still revered.
Danita was born from the singers quote outside relationship end
(09:33):
quote with her mother. I wondered if that complicated her
attempts to get to know a father she never really knew,
particularly with the circumstance of you know, your mom and
dad's relationship and and and all of that. Uh, how
was that for you growing up? So I'm actually grateful
(09:53):
for my mother and the way she um would give
me information. There's a lot of things that actually did know. Um,
you know. Luckily this was obviously in the time where
social media wasn't the thing, but you know, people talk, um,
you know, our community wasn't that big, you know, so
folks knew that I was, you know, those who knew
knew that I was Downie's story. So um, there there
(10:16):
was a long time in my life where I knew
that he had passed. Um. And then the next step
was I knew that he committed suicide, but I didn't
know how. And it actually got to a point where
my inquisitive child like minds like, well, well, what is it, like,
why can't you tell me? Um? And eventually actually found
out on my own by peeping in my mama's closet,
which is you know where also the Christmas gifts are.
(10:38):
But there was a scrap book that she had and
it had um like the the article from Ebony magazine,
which was like a full you know, the pictures, pictures
from the funeral and all. And so you know, she
did a great job of just making sure I understood
as much as possible in the in the way that
was appropriate for a child. And so, you know, as
(11:00):
I got older, you know, I knew the dynamics of
my family, and you know, regardless, I love them, you know,
because they're my family, you know. Um. And so um,
the one thing I will say about my my father
is UM. While I don't remember this, this was told
to me and I feel it. So this is how
(11:21):
I know it's true. The last time I saw him
was the Christmas before he passed. So me and my
mother and my brother we were on the train to St. Louis,
and she said, UM, before I left. Before we we
UM got on the train, I called for him in
a way that I had never called for him before.
(11:41):
I said, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, daddy, daddy like
I was. I was calling for him. And she thought
it was odd because I had never you know, called
for him like that. And UM, another reason why I'm
so passionate about checking in with folks around this time
of year. You know, while this Christmas was out, it
wasn't the big hit that it is now. So I
bought a passed on January thirteen, So after knew me,
(12:03):
knew you in festive all of this, you know, thirteen
days later, he was gone, you know, So it Um,
there is a feeling that I had, like whatever the
short amount of time that me and my father did have, UM,
I know he put all of the love and and
and care into me. That that he could, you know,
(12:24):
with with the mindset that he had. And you know,
for me, I still feel that like I am Daddy's
little girl. I got you know, uh, my spitteral now
you see the artwork behind me, like I look just
like the man, you know. And so you know, hearing
his music this time of year, it just warms my heart.
It's kind of like yeah, Daddy, and then you know
you just sing along, but for me off key because
(12:45):
I'm the non singing half away. Um, but you know
you you slong in the car um. But you know,
there's there's just a warmness that I've always felt. It's
been very few times where UM actually getting the depressed
of state because for some reason, I just understand, Um,
I just I understood that, you know, my father wasn't
(13:06):
here and um, he like he was truly in a
better place. And I had that same test when my
mom passed when I was nineteen, you know, just understanding that,
you know, for whatever health reasons, you know that she
wasn't here. Um. And so UM, actually my healing journey
through that is, um what what has led me to
(13:26):
this work, you know, really healing myself through the loss
of my mother. We talked about the stigma still attached
to mental illness and how her father's genius couldn't make
him immune. His condition has led her to create the
Donny Hathaway Legacy Project, an initiative she hopes will help
others deal with their troubles before suicide becomes an option.
(13:51):
Over the years, I've talked to and interviewed a number
of people who knew your father and worked with your father.
Um ROBERTA. Flack And and James M. Two may uh
most prominent. I think. Um and both talked about how
amazingly talented and gifted your father was. They also talked
(14:12):
about being there firsthand in him fighting those demons that
he had to. Uh. You know, and we are just
starting to see, i'd say, over the last decade, you know,
a sense of America finally understanding that mental health issues
are real. They aren't anything that people should be ashamed of,
(14:34):
and we can't keep closing our eyes and turning our
backs to them, which we've done far too long. Uh.
Let me ask you on a personal side. Once you
began to understand that, was there a side of you
that was frightened at all? Um? You know there are
questions whether or not mental health issues run, if their
(14:55):
hereditary and the like. Is it's something that you have
concerned your off with. Is that why you have taken on, um,
you know, the mantle of making sure the clarion call
that people understand, um, you know, through the foundation, what
we need to, particularly African Americans do to deal with
mental health issues. Yes, um, absolutely, UM. So let me
(15:21):
start here. While you know, my father is the most
um known obviously you know I'm his daughter, so you know,
people know my my dad's story. I also have a
uncle that unfortunately was not able to meet on my
mother's side. He was a cop. Um. He was a musician,
and he committed suicide. And this is in the sixties. Um,
(15:46):
so you know, long before I was even thought of.
UM actually have him here. This is my grandfather. That's
that's that's Donnie's father. UM. He was shell shock UM
and they actually told him that he should never have
children because he would not have the capacity to take
(16:08):
care of a child. UM. So you know, in a
lot of ways, it's a miracle that my father even
exists because you know, again he had that diagnosis and
he just happened to meet my grandmother who UM. While
she was from St. Louis, she was spending time in Chicago,
and you know, one thing let to go another and hey,
you know, here's Donnie. So UM. I have a few
(16:31):
other members in my family who have gone missing. UM.
I have folks in my family who have had you know,
extreme depressive states. UM. For me, UM, I had a
point when I was a teenager I think when things
started to really click on who my father was. I
(16:52):
was at a performing arts high school and I just
didn't have didn't quite have the chops the way that
the other kids did. I just didn't have the discipline
as a UM. But something in that was a trigger
for me, and I went into a pretty deep depressive state.
And the next time that happened it was um uh
(17:14):
maybe a few weeks after my mom passed. UM. So
there's there's and I also saw it with her. UM.
There there's been times where you know, I want to
find out more about who my dad was outside of
you know, the musician that he was, but the man
that he that he was. And it's very difficult for
me to have those conversations with those who knew him
(17:35):
because they're still triggered and they're still hurt that he's gone.
When will you come back? Dania Hathaway talks about how
she's using her father's legacy to turn around the stigma
of suicide. Danita's father's suicide has served as a catalyst
(18:08):
for her advocating for better understanding of mental illness. She
shared that the suicides of other famous people resonated with
her and fueled her activism. I really was frustrated with
continuing to see the outpour of you know, I'm so
sorry what happened to so and so when they passed
(18:28):
away through to suicide, like a don crninis Um, Like,
you know, oh my god, it's so sad, what happened
to him? We love so trained, right, So it's so
sad what happened to Donnie. He was so talented. It
was so sad what happened to phillis him? And you
know she wasn't an amazing you know, talent. And I
continue to see the growth of suicide and young black kids,
(18:49):
and you know, I I was frustrated because it's like,
you know what, my my father has been gone forty years,
and it seems like we're still having this conversation of
you know, I'm so sorry after the fact, and so
you know, I really through my own struggles of really
figuring out and plenty two and two together, UM, I
(19:12):
wanted to get to the root cast like one minute
you're fun, the next minute you're not. What what happened?
And so the Legacy project is focused on the beginning,
Like for your average person, you don't have to be
diagnosed as anything. You're a human being, right, And we
all have moments in our lives that you know, break
our hearts, UM, that are a source of trauma for us.
(19:34):
A lot of that it's stems from winning were kids.
Hey I was too UM, And so you know what
happens when you don't deal with said heartbreaks said trauma.
It could be UM, divorce UM as a kid, your
parents or you yourself getting a divorce. UM. It could
be economic status. It could be health a physical health diagnosis.
(19:57):
So you know, all of that combined is is where
you know, all of the pieces of the puzzle started
to come together for me, UM, seeing it in my
own family, seeing it for myself, seeing it in our
community at large. UM. And I'm grateful for the fact
that there is you know, at least some some keywords
that folks are familiar with now, like triggered. You know,
(20:17):
like that's a cultural thing now. Um, but you know,
let's push it further. Let's have some conversations, let's dig
in and and really find out that you were all human.
You know, we all want love and respect, them to
be acknowledged in love. And a lot of times is
when you know life happens. Um, you know, finding a
holistic way to deal with it because as a society,
(20:38):
we we don't you know, like we celebrate the winds
i e. You know, on on social media, but when
you're not okay, then you know you're called everything under
the sun, you weak, or you need to pray, or
don't cry or special black men you know, boys don't cry.
Black men don't cry. Um. And you know it's a
lot of mixed messages that could be very confusing. And
(21:00):
you know if we all just um, you know, I'm
started with a sevil conversation. Um. I think that that
I know that goes a long way because it's helped
me in my life. Yeah, we should note that Donny
Hathaway Legacy Project is something that you've spearheaded and is
really bringing uh to light, and I think projects like
this or someone like Charlemagne the God who's been very
(21:21):
open with the idea of dealing with trauma and dealing
with um. What we as a community have kept in
the closet for so long is so vitally important. But
it struck me what you said. And you know, especially
in my generation I'm sixty one now, you know, we
were really told as men. Boy, you know, I remember
(21:45):
seeing this movie they used to show an elementary school
called The Little Red Balloon, and I came home and
I was it was very sad, and I was crying.
I was telling my mom about the movie, and my
father walked in and he said, you know, what's the
matter and I was like, nothing, nothing, And finally told
him it was this movie and he said, boy, were
you crying about some movie? You know? My mother was like,
(22:06):
it's okay, and he was like, no, it ain't okay,
you know. And so there is this sense of you know,
what men have to be or just be strong, get up,
don't cry. Um. What have you found in terms of
how our community, um, you know, is dealing with this
because in spite of the doors being open and being
a bit more open armed armed Our community still sees
(22:29):
this to a great degree as something that should be
seen as a stigma. Yes, Um, it's and it's still
very much so. UM, which is UM, thank you for mentioning,
UM showing me the guy because UM, I think the
work that he's doing is brilliant. Um. There's something to
(22:50):
um And I'm using this as uh one of my
toolbox kind of um um um items in my toolbox
is influence us celebrity. Right, so a doctor or mental
health professional can tell you all the things that you
need to do, say et cetera, in order for you
(23:11):
to have the best quality of life possible. And because
there's a fear of doctors or folks can't afford it.
You know, there's a variety of things you know, surrounding that.
You know, people don't hate to take key to it.
But if a person of influence that you like, that's it,
and I think that's the key component. It's someone that
you like says it, then it gets your attention. So
(23:31):
if whether you like Charlotte Mane because he's messing on
the on the Breakfast Club or you know, I think
he's actually doing really good work, or if Beyonce or
someone like that says it, you know, then it gets
people's attention. And I think it's unfortunate, but in our
society that's what works. People gravitate to um information from
(23:52):
people that they like. Not necessarily the folks who are
skilled in that field. Shout out to folks like UM,
Silence a Shame, Shantidas and coffee, hip hop and mental health.
They're doing amazing work in Chicago. UM. You know, there
is really a narrative shift that we need to have. Like,
at the end of the day, we all deserve to
(24:13):
live the best quality of life possible, all right, and
so in order to do that, you do have to
be vulnerable, and you do have to seek out, you know,
how to heal yourself. Like I can't do that for you.
You have to do it for yourself, you know. But
the good news is you don't have to do it alone.
There is UM again, those professionals who are trained and skilled,
which is why while you kid pray away your mental english,
(24:37):
you do need to pray right that that's also a component.
But you know, there are folks who are trained who
can be a listening ear and help you, you know,
kind of do a brain dump on on the things
that have traumatized you, right or you know, just I
mean life, life is hard. Like even with my job,
I could use you know, a few sessions because you
(24:58):
know it's just stressful work, right Yeah, And it's and
and education is big too, because I think what people
miss and often people assume that the depression you have
because you had a bad few days or your team
lost or you know, you lost some money. Uh, it's
different than clinical depression. You know, you can't just go
(25:22):
sleep in the bed for a couple of days and
then get up and everything is fine. We have not
educated ourselves enough around this subject. We don't. And you know,
I do applaud some of these um UM health UM
commercials like a Kaiser or United where they are starting
(25:43):
to have mental health commercials UM. I do think we
need some targeted towards us with better messaging UM. And
it might take some some influencers to to really drive
home that point because again that's the transpactor, but it's
UM a huge education piece that that needs to happen.
(26:03):
What the Legacy Project aims to do is to do
that in where we use our culture and the things
that bring us joy, the things that are healing like music, UM,
and you know a variety of other holistic tools in
order to help educate and motivate UM. You know, those
two to really make improvement improvements in their lives. We
(26:28):
ended where we began with her father's legendary music. I
talked about how ironic it is that his heartfelt and
soul stirring music touches so many often during rough periods
of their lives. I have used music throughout my my
life as a calming factor, and obviously your father is
(26:51):
one of those I would play at certain times, good
and bad. Right. But it's funny. I saw an interview
that you did as I was doing some re chearch
and you talked about this song that has been unearthed, uh,
that your dad made. And here's what's funny. I was
um introduced to the song when Kirk Whalem had Laila
(27:15):
joined him to do the song. I did some research
and found that it had been done by a group
that your father produced and obviously wrote the song. But
I thought to myself, because initially I thought when I
heard it on Kurt's album, man, I've never heard this
Donny Hathaway song, and said maybe it was an album
cut I didn't know about, and I searched and searched,
and I remember saying after I couldn't find it, Man,
(27:38):
I wish he had done this song and lo and
behold he did it. It's so it's so good the
song is you had to know so that song was actually, um,
it was intended to go to Edda James. I found out,
(28:01):
like if you listen to it closely, you might you know,
kind of hear that that dynamic, like yeah, you know
she can do that. But I think the reason why
it was shelved is and this is, Um, I'll link
this back to this Christmas who wants to cover a
song after Donnie has sung it right like that that
(28:21):
song Um, Rhino Atlantic Records. I need to we need
to figure this out, like that needs to be released. UM.
I have it in my top five Donnie Hathaway songs
like and actually that song came um when we talk
about depressive states. Uh that year, um, which was last
year my dad turned his birthday. It was the seventy
(28:44):
f birthday and I did you know, a nice celebration
for him, But it was also my mother's eightieth And
when it came, it kind of hit me like a
ton of bricks, like like, oh my god, we're here
now and she's not here, like for some reason of
all the that she's been gone that last year hit
me in a particular way, and I was in a
(29:06):
deep depressive state. Um, I don't think I've been. I
hadn't been that depressed that she passed, and so I
was really down and out. I wasn't answering my phone
all of that, and then I started to see message
like messages that there's this new Donny Hathaway song like
oh my god, I'm dealing with one parent. I can't
take two like I can't and so um, it's it
(29:29):
got more intense where it started to reach my phone
and they said, well, do you know anything about it?
When did it come out? Like it sounds like it
could be like nineteen seventy one, seventy two, which is
like prime Donnie. We're like, oh, you know, And so
that that got my attention, and after another day, because
the response was so intense, I said, you know what, Okay, okay, okay,
(29:54):
um let me let me play the song. And when
I tell you that that the song brought me out
of whatever funk I was in you know, missing my
mom Um. My dad helped me in that, you know.
And so there there is something to music. Actually the
science of it is um. And forgive me, I don't
(30:17):
have the exact numbers. You know, how we use like
less than ten percent or twelve percent of our our
brain is capacity. Music reaches our brain at like an
exorbitant amount. I want to say, it's like sixty or seventum.
Which is why it's the perfect healing tool because it
it effectively reaches us in a way I think mind, body,
(30:38):
and soul. Um. Music has that healing component. And I'm
just blessed to be the daughter of the greatest thing
of all time. U who you know when when he
saying no one as much as he covered songs like
a song for You is a cover? Um Giving Up
was a cover from Gladys Night. Um. Uh. One thing
(30:59):
I like to say is when Annie takes your song,
you're not gonna get it back. King, he almost took
what's going on? I think he almost took Superwoman. Some
people think he did. Um and that's that's a lot
covering a Stevie song. Um. There is something about when
Donnie Hathaway covers the song like he makes it his
(31:19):
own in a in a special way. Um. But with
this Christmas if you go on Twitter, oh boy, the debates.
Like in fact, the day after Halloween, I come to
Twitter with a bowl of popcorn like Michael Jackson in
the Thriller video because here comes the comments. Please don't
cover this Christmas anymore. Uh. This Christmas by Donnie Hathaway
(31:44):
is the only Christmas song that will accept you know.
So I do love that people are so passionate about it. Um.
I think it speaks to the artist that he was
well yeah, that they are very passionate as you are
with Donnie Hathaway Legacy Project in your fight to get
the word out about mental health. Thank you so much
(32:05):
for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me,
and hey, do yourself a favor. Make sure you go
to YouTube and check out the newfound song. It's classic Donny,
and of course it ain't Christmas until we hear Mr
Hathaway start out with hang all the Missiletown. To find
(32:29):
out more about the Donnie Hathaway Legacy Project, go to
Donny Hathaway dot Org. One is produced by ed Gordon
Media and distributed by I Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green
and Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our editor is Lance Patton.
(32:49):
Gerald Albright composed and performed our theme. Please join me
on Twitter and Instagram at ed L Gordon and on
Facebook at ed Gordon Media and
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Gordon Podcast. Next,
a conversation with mental health advocate Danita Hathaway, and yes,
there is a connection. Iconic singer Donny Hathaway is her father.
Danita was only two when her father committed suicide. His
(00:42):
death has motivated her to bringing awareness to mental illness.
It's also moved her to create a project in his
name to provide help to those fighting mental illness. But
we started out by talking about her father's connection to
this special time of year. Here, Donita, let's talk about
the song that everybody talks about around this time, and
(01:05):
that is your dad's song this Christmas. It really is.
You know, sometimes we put iconic and classic on things
that aren't, but this truly does fit that bill. Talk
to me about what that song means to you personally. First, yes, uh,
First of all, thank you so much for having me. Um.
You know, this Christmas is um. You know, for me
(01:25):
and for a lot of people, a song that's very
near and dear to us. I know, for me, Christmas
doesn't begin until I hear my my father's rendition of
that song. And so you know, it is the soundtrack
for a lot of our you know, festive and happy
times during the holidays. And you know that's the thing
about Donnie Hathaway. When he sang a song, you believed him.
(01:46):
So when when he says this Christmas will be a
very special Christmas for me, it's like, yeah, yes, you know,
right on, brother. So um, there's there's nothing like the original,
even though I actually appreciate the remix because I think
it shows, you know, homage to a great artist and
a great song. But you know, this Christmas is uh,
(02:09):
you know, it's actually fifty years old, um, as of
last year, and that song has been around for fifty years. Ye.
So you know it's a timeless classic. It's ours, you know,
and so I'm I'm proud that you know, my father
is has you know, one of those songs that's near
and dear to all of us. Yeah. You know what's
interesting you say it's ours, and that is so very true.
(02:29):
I mean, you know, there's so many Christmas classics that
were written in you know, the thirties and forties, and
and they were for the majority culture first and foremost, um,
But this one really speaks to black folks. It is ours.
We have ownership of that to a great degree absolutely,
(02:50):
and a big huge shoutout to Nadine mckenner who is
the songwriter for the song and Rip Pile, the um
producer and musician on that track. You know, they start
off the song you know, hang all the missile So
I'm gonna get to know you better. You know, you
don't really think of something like that in in your
your typical Christmas all. So you know, it has so
(03:13):
much soul in you know, so much flavor, and you know,
at the same time be be festive and again be
our so yeah, and and it has, let us not
put it in a corner, it has grown to what
the media likes to call mainstream. You know, everyone knows
the song now and and and loves it for what
it is. But you raise an interesting point in what
(03:34):
you are doing with your life and um, you know,
it's so poignant with what your your father had to
deal with and suffer through throughout his life. And that
is that as festive as these times are, they can
be very difficult for some people. It is a time
of depression for some. Uh some look around and see
all of what we like to post on Instagram, which
(03:57):
isn't always true. What the the media portray praise, which
isn't always true. It's a difficult time for many, yes, So, Um,
the way I like to look at it is, you know,
there's something about the holidays that does bring out, you know,
a sense of community, a sense of giving. Um, there's
constant you know, food drives and coat drives, you know
(04:18):
for those who are hungry, those who are homeless. But
I think what's missing in that and all of those
things are necessary, but you know, the catalysts to someone's
situation that can have them, you know, in such dire straits.
And so I know for me, Christmas hasn't been the
same since my mom passed. Um. If you have someone
who's passed during this time of year, you know, it's
(04:40):
a difficult time. Um. You know there is the the
lie that you know you see on social media and
you know these commercials you have to buy this because
you need to show your loved ones that you love them.
In order to do that, you know, you have to
spend all of this exuberant amount of money. Um, you know,
and you know I understand that. But for me, there's
(05:03):
there's a gap of you know, really checking in with
our folks this time of year, like, don't assume because
you know, the lights are pretty, and the trees are pretty,
and the gifts are you know expensive, um that you know, um,
that we're not suffering as a really as a community especially.
You can take this year, you know, as a as
a great example. A lot of folks are afraid to
(05:26):
even meet with their families, you know, due to COVID.
And so you know what about those folks who are alone,
those who actually have tensions with their family members, um,
those who have health issues, those who have suffered at loss.
We just saw the tornadoes that ravage you know, a
nice chuck of this country. You know what, what about
those folks? And so I have an initiative where you know,
(05:46):
I want people to you know, think back even from
the start of the year. You know, the folks that
you had your thoughts and prayers for or whatever they
were going through. Let's check back in with them with
a physical to not just a like or a Facebook message.
Pick up the phone, you know, knock on the door safely, um,
(06:08):
and and make sure you know, like, hey, I know
you were going through a hard time earlier this year,
or you know, etcetera, etcetera. Um, you know, I just
want to make sure that you actually have a family
to spend the holidays with, or I want you to
know that you're loved and appreciate it. That physical touch
of of of having empathy and sympathy goes a long
(06:31):
long way, because no one wants to spend the holidays
a long Let me ask you something, And I'm curious.
My my father died when I was eleven suddenly, and
I have uh you know, if you take away when
you were one to three years old, you know, I
have eight or nine years of true memories with my
dad even though he you know, departed this world when
(06:54):
I was was young. You, on the other hand, Uh,
your dad died when you were too, if my math
is correct. Um, So I'm curious. To a great degree.
I think we those that lose parents early, um, you know,
somewhat fantasize our relationships with them throughout We we seek
(07:19):
I think acceptance and want um that you can't have physically.
As you say, um, what what has that been like
for you? Because to a great degree, you knew your dad,
like most of us, knew your father from Afar, from
his music, from the few videos that we have of
him talk to me about that. Yes, UM, I want
(07:42):
to say for me, it's actually it's absolutely been family
and friends making sure that I was okay. Um. I'm
born and raised UM in Chicago. UM. You know, We're
all our families from Chicago, and so I've been blessed
to you know, travel where Right now I live in
Atlanta time, but every every holiday, UM season, I go
(08:05):
home and I'm blessed to still have my great aunt,
UM Donnie's aunt, who is still alive like she's in
the nineties. UM. I just lost my bonus dad. I
have a brother and his father passed away this year. UM.
But we will normally get together, me, my bonus dad
and my brother, and we would do what a lot
(08:27):
of families do, and that was, you know, have something
to eating and go see a movie. Um. But there is, uh,
there is an extra effort that I will say that
my family would would um purposefully make sure that you know,
we were together, we were spending time together, that we
knew that we were loved and appreciate it. And Uh,
(08:48):
if you would have told me last year that that
would have been the last Christmas with even my bonus dad,
who has been in my life, my entire life. You know,
he's really he really um embraced me as if I
was his own, like I was his daughter, you know. Um,
you know, and I cherished that time because now now
he's gone, and so you know, I'm grateful for that.
We're gonna continue this um and honoring all of our
(09:10):
lost family members, me and my brother and you know,
we we want to shine a light on their their legacy,
you know, their memories and say thank you. I wondered
what it's been like for her to have a father
whose image is still ubiquitous and voice is still revered.
Danita was born from the singers quote outside relationship end
(09:33):
quote with her mother. I wondered if that complicated her
attempts to get to know a father she never really knew,
particularly with the circumstance of you know, your mom and
dad's relationship and and and all of that. Uh, how
was that for you growing up? So I'm actually grateful
(09:53):
for my mother and the way she um would give
me information. There's a lot of things that actually did know. Um,
you know. Luckily this was obviously in the time where
social media wasn't the thing, but you know, people talk, um,
you know, our community wasn't that big, you know, so
folks knew that I was, you know, those who knew
knew that I was Downie's story. So um, there there
(10:16):
was a long time in my life where I knew
that he had passed. Um. And then the next step
was I knew that he committed suicide, but I didn't
know how. And it actually got to a point where
my inquisitive child like minds like, well, well, what is it, like,
why can't you tell me? Um? And eventually actually found
out on my own by peeping in my mama's closet,
which is you know where also the Christmas gifts are.
(10:38):
But there was a scrap book that she had and
it had um like the the article from Ebony magazine,
which was like a full you know, the pictures, pictures
from the funeral and all. And so you know, she
did a great job of just making sure I understood
as much as possible in the in the way that
was appropriate for a child. And so, you know, as
(11:00):
I got older, you know, I knew the dynamics of
my family, and you know, regardless, I love them, you know,
because they're my family, you know. Um. And so um,
the one thing I will say about my my father
is UM. While I don't remember this, this was told
to me and I feel it. So this is how
(11:21):
I know it's true. The last time I saw him
was the Christmas before he passed. So me and my
mother and my brother we were on the train to St. Louis,
and she said, UM, before I left. Before we we
UM got on the train, I called for him in
a way that I had never called for him before.
(11:41):
I said, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, daddy, daddy like
I was. I was calling for him. And she thought
it was odd because I had never you know, called
for him like that. And UM, another reason why I'm
so passionate about checking in with folks around this time
of year. You know, while this Christmas was out, it
wasn't the big hit that it is now. So I
bought a passed on January thirteen, So after knew me,
(12:03):
knew you in festive all of this, you know, thirteen
days later, he was gone, you know, So it Um,
there is a feeling that I had, like whatever the
short amount of time that me and my father did have, UM,
I know he put all of the love and and
and care into me. That that he could, you know,
(12:24):
with with the mindset that he had. And you know,
for me, I still feel that like I am Daddy's
little girl. I got you know, uh, my spitteral now
you see the artwork behind me, like I look just
like the man, you know. And so you know, hearing
his music this time of year, it just warms my heart.
It's kind of like yeah, Daddy, and then you know
you just sing along, but for me off key because
(12:45):
I'm the non singing half away. Um, but you know
you you slong in the car um. But you know,
there's there's just a warmness that I've always felt. It's
been very few times where UM actually getting the depressed
of state because for some reason, I just understand, Um,
I just I understood that, you know, my father wasn't
(13:06):
here and um, he like he was truly in a
better place. And I had that same test when my
mom passed when I was nineteen, you know, just understanding that,
you know, for whatever health reasons, you know that she
wasn't here. Um. And so UM, actually my healing journey
through that is, um what what has led me to
(13:26):
this work, you know, really healing myself through the loss
of my mother. We talked about the stigma still attached
to mental illness and how her father's genius couldn't make
him immune. His condition has led her to create the
Donny Hathaway Legacy Project, an initiative she hopes will help
others deal with their troubles before suicide becomes an option.
(13:51):
Over the years, I've talked to and interviewed a number
of people who knew your father and worked with your father.
Um ROBERTA. Flack And and James M. Two may uh
most prominent. I think. Um and both talked about how
amazingly talented and gifted your father was. They also talked
(14:12):
about being there firsthand in him fighting those demons that
he had to. Uh. You know, and we are just
starting to see, i'd say, over the last decade, you know,
a sense of America finally understanding that mental health issues
are real. They aren't anything that people should be ashamed of,
(14:34):
and we can't keep closing our eyes and turning our
backs to them, which we've done far too long. Uh.
Let me ask you on a personal side. Once you
began to understand that, was there a side of you
that was frightened at all? Um? You know there are
questions whether or not mental health issues run, if their
(14:55):
hereditary and the like. Is it's something that you have
concerned your off with. Is that why you have taken on, um,
you know, the mantle of making sure the clarion call
that people understand, um, you know, through the foundation, what
we need to, particularly African Americans do to deal with
mental health issues. Yes, um, absolutely, UM. So let me
(15:21):
start here. While you know, my father is the most
um known obviously you know I'm his daughter, so you know,
people know my my dad's story. I also have a
uncle that unfortunately was not able to meet on my
mother's side. He was a cop. Um. He was a musician,
and he committed suicide. And this is in the sixties. Um,
(15:46):
so you know, long before I was even thought of.
UM actually have him here. This is my grandfather. That's
that's that's Donnie's father. UM. He was shell shock UM
and they actually told him that he should never have
children because he would not have the capacity to take
(16:08):
care of a child. UM. So you know, in a
lot of ways, it's a miracle that my father even
exists because you know, again he had that diagnosis and
he just happened to meet my grandmother who UM. While
she was from St. Louis, she was spending time in Chicago,
and you know, one thing let to go another and hey,
you know, here's Donnie. So UM. I have a few
(16:31):
other members in my family who have gone missing. UM.
I have folks in my family who have had you know,
extreme depressive states. UM. For me, UM, I had a
point when I was a teenager I think when things
started to really click on who my father was. I
(16:52):
was at a performing arts high school and I just
didn't have didn't quite have the chops the way that
the other kids did. I just didn't have the discipline
as a UM. But something in that was a trigger
for me, and I went into a pretty deep depressive state.
And the next time that happened it was um uh
(17:14):
maybe a few weeks after my mom passed. UM. So
there's there's and I also saw it with her. UM.
There there's been times where you know, I want to
find out more about who my dad was outside of
you know, the musician that he was, but the man
that he that he was. And it's very difficult for
me to have those conversations with those who knew him
(17:35):
because they're still triggered and they're still hurt that he's gone.
When will you come back? Dania Hathaway talks about how
she's using her father's legacy to turn around the stigma
of suicide. Danita's father's suicide has served as a catalyst
(18:08):
for her advocating for better understanding of mental illness. She
shared that the suicides of other famous people resonated with
her and fueled her activism. I really was frustrated with
continuing to see the outpour of you know, I'm so
sorry what happened to so and so when they passed
(18:28):
away through to suicide, like a don crninis Um, Like,
you know, oh my god, it's so sad, what happened
to him? We love so trained, right, So it's so
sad what happened to Donnie. He was so talented. It
was so sad what happened to phillis him? And you
know she wasn't an amazing you know, talent. And I
continue to see the growth of suicide and young black kids,
(18:49):
and you know, I I was frustrated because it's like,
you know what, my my father has been gone forty years,
and it seems like we're still having this conversation of
you know, I'm so sorry after the fact, and so
you know, I really through my own struggles of really
figuring out and plenty two and two together, UM, I
(19:12):
wanted to get to the root cast like one minute
you're fun, the next minute you're not. What what happened?
And so the Legacy project is focused on the beginning,
Like for your average person, you don't have to be
diagnosed as anything. You're a human being, right, And we
all have moments in our lives that you know, break
our hearts, UM, that are a source of trauma for us.
(19:34):
A lot of that it's stems from winning were kids.
Hey I was too UM, And so you know what
happens when you don't deal with said heartbreaks said trauma.
It could be UM, divorce UM as a kid, your
parents or you yourself getting a divorce. UM. It could
be economic status. It could be health a physical health diagnosis.
(19:57):
So you know, all of that combined is is where
you know, all of the pieces of the puzzle started
to come together for me, UM, seeing it in my
own family, seeing it for myself, seeing it in our
community at large. UM. And I'm grateful for the fact
that there is you know, at least some some keywords
that folks are familiar with now, like triggered. You know,
(20:17):
like that's a cultural thing now. Um, but you know,
let's push it further. Let's have some conversations, let's dig
in and and really find out that you were all human.
You know, we all want love and respect, them to
be acknowledged in love. And a lot of times is
when you know life happens. Um, you know, finding a
holistic way to deal with it because as a society,
(20:38):
we we don't you know, like we celebrate the winds
i e. You know, on on social media, but when
you're not okay, then you know you're called everything under
the sun, you weak, or you need to pray, or
don't cry or special black men you know, boys don't cry.
Black men don't cry. Um. And you know it's a
lot of mixed messages that could be very confusing. And
(21:00):
you know if we all just um, you know, I'm
started with a sevil conversation. Um. I think that that
I know that goes a long way because it's helped
me in my life. Yeah, we should note that Donny
Hathaway Legacy Project is something that you've spearheaded and is
really bringing uh to light, and I think projects like
this or someone like Charlemagne the God who's been very
(21:21):
open with the idea of dealing with trauma and dealing
with um. What we as a community have kept in
the closet for so long is so vitally important. But
it struck me what you said. And you know, especially
in my generation I'm sixty one now, you know, we
were really told as men. Boy, you know, I remember
(21:45):
seeing this movie they used to show an elementary school
called The Little Red Balloon, and I came home and
I was it was very sad, and I was crying.
I was telling my mom about the movie, and my
father walked in and he said, you know, what's the
matter and I was like, nothing, nothing, And finally told
him it was this movie and he said, boy, were
you crying about some movie? You know? My mother was like,
(22:06):
it's okay, and he was like, no, it ain't okay,
you know. And so there is this sense of you know,
what men have to be or just be strong, get up,
don't cry. Um. What have you found in terms of
how our community, um, you know, is dealing with this
because in spite of the doors being open and being
a bit more open armed armed Our community still sees
(22:29):
this to a great degree as something that should be
seen as a stigma. Yes, Um, it's and it's still
very much so. UM, which is UM, thank you for mentioning,
UM showing me the guy because UM, I think the
work that he's doing is brilliant. Um. There's something to
(22:50):
um And I'm using this as uh one of my
toolbox kind of um um um items in my toolbox
is influence us celebrity. Right, so a doctor or mental
health professional can tell you all the things that you
need to do, say et cetera, in order for you
(23:11):
to have the best quality of life possible. And because
there's a fear of doctors or folks can't afford it.
You know, there's a variety of things you know, surrounding that.
You know, people don't hate to take key to it.
But if a person of influence that you like, that's it,
and I think that's the key component. It's someone that
you like says it, then it gets your attention. So
(23:31):
if whether you like Charlotte Mane because he's messing on
the on the Breakfast Club or you know, I think
he's actually doing really good work, or if Beyonce or
someone like that says it, you know, then it gets
people's attention. And I think it's unfortunate, but in our
society that's what works. People gravitate to um information from
(23:52):
people that they like. Not necessarily the folks who are
skilled in that field. Shout out to folks like UM,
Silence a Shame, Shantidas and coffee, hip hop and mental health.
They're doing amazing work in Chicago. UM. You know, there
is really a narrative shift that we need to have. Like,
at the end of the day, we all deserve to
(24:13):
live the best quality of life possible, all right, and
so in order to do that, you do have to
be vulnerable, and you do have to seek out, you know,
how to heal yourself. Like I can't do that for you.
You have to do it for yourself, you know. But
the good news is you don't have to do it alone.
There is UM again, those professionals who are trained and skilled,
which is why while you kid pray away your mental english,
(24:37):
you do need to pray right that that's also a component.
But you know, there are folks who are trained who
can be a listening ear and help you, you know,
kind of do a brain dump on on the things
that have traumatized you, right or you know, just I
mean life, life is hard. Like even with my job,
I could use you know, a few sessions because you
(24:58):
know it's just stressful work, right Yeah, And it's and
and education is big too, because I think what people
miss and often people assume that the depression you have
because you had a bad few days or your team
lost or you know, you lost some money. Uh, it's
different than clinical depression. You know, you can't just go
(25:22):
sleep in the bed for a couple of days and
then get up and everything is fine. We have not
educated ourselves enough around this subject. We don't. And you know,
I do applaud some of these um UM health UM
commercials like a Kaiser or United where they are starting
(25:43):
to have mental health commercials UM. I do think we
need some targeted towards us with better messaging UM. And
it might take some some influencers to to really drive
home that point because again that's the transpactor, but it's
UM a huge education piece that that needs to happen.
(26:03):
What the Legacy Project aims to do is to do
that in where we use our culture and the things
that bring us joy, the things that are healing like music, UM,
and you know a variety of other holistic tools in
order to help educate and motivate UM. You know, those
two to really make improvement improvements in their lives. We
(26:28):
ended where we began with her father's legendary music. I
talked about how ironic it is that his heartfelt and
soul stirring music touches so many often during rough periods
of their lives. I have used music throughout my my
life as a calming factor, and obviously your father is
(26:51):
one of those I would play at certain times, good
and bad. Right. But it's funny. I saw an interview
that you did as I was doing some re chearch
and you talked about this song that has been unearthed, uh,
that your dad made. And here's what's funny. I was
um introduced to the song when Kirk Whalem had Laila
(27:15):
joined him to do the song. I did some research
and found that it had been done by a group
that your father produced and obviously wrote the song. But
I thought to myself, because initially I thought when I
heard it on Kurt's album, man, I've never heard this
Donny Hathaway song, and said maybe it was an album
cut I didn't know about, and I searched and searched,
and I remember saying after I couldn't find it, Man,
(27:38):
I wish he had done this song and lo and
behold he did it. It's so it's so good the
song is you had to know so that song was actually, um,
it was intended to go to Edda James. I found out,
(28:01):
like if you listen to it closely, you might you know,
kind of hear that that dynamic, like yeah, you know
she can do that. But I think the reason why
it was shelved is and this is, Um, I'll link
this back to this Christmas who wants to cover a
song after Donnie has sung it right like that that
(28:21):
song Um, Rhino Atlantic Records. I need to we need
to figure this out, like that needs to be released. UM.
I have it in my top five Donnie Hathaway songs
like and actually that song came um when we talk
about depressive states. Uh that year, um, which was last
year my dad turned his birthday. It was the seventy
(28:44):
f birthday and I did you know, a nice celebration
for him, But it was also my mother's eightieth And
when it came, it kind of hit me like a
ton of bricks, like like, oh my god, we're here
now and she's not here, like for some reason of
all the that she's been gone that last year hit
me in a particular way, and I was in a
(29:06):
deep depressive state. Um, I don't think I've been. I
hadn't been that depressed that she passed, and so I
was really down and out. I wasn't answering my phone
all of that, and then I started to see message
like messages that there's this new Donny Hathaway song like
oh my god, I'm dealing with one parent. I can't
take two like I can't and so um, it's it
(29:29):
got more intense where it started to reach my phone
and they said, well, do you know anything about it?
When did it come out? Like it sounds like it
could be like nineteen seventy one, seventy two, which is
like prime Donnie. We're like, oh, you know, And so
that that got my attention, and after another day, because
the response was so intense, I said, you know what, Okay, okay, okay,
(29:54):
um let me let me play the song. And when
I tell you that that the song brought me out
of whatever funk I was in you know, missing my
mom Um. My dad helped me in that, you know.
And so there there is something to music. Actually the
science of it is um. And forgive me, I don't
(30:17):
have the exact numbers. You know, how we use like
less than ten percent or twelve percent of our our
brain is capacity. Music reaches our brain at like an
exorbitant amount. I want to say, it's like sixty or seventum.
Which is why it's the perfect healing tool because it
it effectively reaches us in a way I think mind, body,
(30:38):
and soul. Um. Music has that healing component. And I'm
just blessed to be the daughter of the greatest thing
of all time. U who you know when when he
saying no one as much as he covered songs like
a song for You is a cover? Um Giving Up
was a cover from Gladys Night. Um. Uh. One thing
(30:59):
I like to say is when Annie takes your song,
you're not gonna get it back. King, he almost took
what's going on? I think he almost took Superwoman. Some
people think he did. Um and that's that's a lot
covering a Stevie song. Um. There is something about when
Donnie Hathaway covers the song like he makes it his
(31:19):
own in a in a special way. Um. But with
this Christmas if you go on Twitter, oh boy, the debates.
Like in fact, the day after Halloween, I come to
Twitter with a bowl of popcorn like Michael Jackson in
the Thriller video because here comes the comments. Please don't
cover this Christmas anymore. Uh. This Christmas by Donnie Hathaway
(31:44):
is the only Christmas song that will accept you know.
So I do love that people are so passionate about it. Um.
I think it speaks to the artist that he was
well yeah, that they are very passionate as you are
with Donnie Hathaway Legacy Project in your fight to get
the word out about mental health. Thank you so much
(32:05):
for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me,
and hey, do yourself a favor. Make sure you go
to YouTube and check out the newfound song. It's classic Donny,
and of course it ain't Christmas until we hear Mr
Hathaway start out with hang all the Missiletown. To find
(32:29):
out more about the Donnie Hathaway Legacy Project, go to
Donny Hathaway dot Org. One is produced by ed Gordon
Media and distributed by I Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green
and Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our editor is Lance Patton.
(32:49):
Gerald Albright composed and performed our theme. Please join me
on Twitter and Instagram at ed L Gordon and on
Facebook at ed Gordon Media and
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