November 14, 2023 • 48 mins
Journalist, documentary filmmaker, and friend, Alexandra Pelosi sits down with Rosie to discuss her crucial new documentary, "The Insurrectionist Next Door."
Alexandra, who is the youngest daughter of Nancy and Paul Pelosi, was with the Speaker inside the Capital, on Jan 6, 2021. After witnessing the violent insurrection unfold, Alexandra talked to the people who stormed the building, to ask why, and as a daughter, if given the chance, would they have actually killed her mother?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, everybody, you found me. It's Rosie O'Donnell here on onward.
And guess what fantastic news. The sag and After strike
is over. And I am so happy about that and
so proud of the negotiating committee led by Fran Dresher,
who is one of the smartest people I've ever met
in my life. I love and adore her. She's the
(00:32):
big sister I dreamed of having, and I am so
happy to get through life with her in my orbit.
And so Fran Dresher, thank you, thank you. And now
we can talk about all movies and everything. And I
saw Naiad. It's on Netflix, Jody Foster and that Benning
epic film. Beautifully shot, the colors are gorgeous, the acting
(00:58):
is astounding, and just how they shot her swimming in
the terror of it and you feel it so well.
And listen, we weren't allowed to talk about or promote
or whatever the movies that we've seen. And truthfully, since
the strike started, I haven't seen that many movies, and
in fact, I've seen very few. I've been watching, for
(01:21):
lack of a better word, crap reality TV. I guess
that's what you call it, right, crap reality where you
know Love in the Wild. Now, I thought this was
a new show, Love in the Wild. Apparently it's not.
It's been on a long time. But I was watching
shows like that and staying away from the news. But
I saw a Naiad had been released to stream on Netflix,
(01:43):
and I watched it, and I'm so impressed with the
film and the relationship that Annette and Jody have, And
I would love to have anyone involved with that film
on this podcast. So if anyone knows anyone who was
on that film wants to come and talk to me
about it, I would love to have Diana Naiad herself
(02:05):
sit here and tell me about her life. What a
fascinating woman, What an amazing friendship and relationship she had,
and what unbelievable strength and fortitude and courage and every
word you can think of that means that really pretty amazing.
Excellent voter turnout turned out on Tuesday, which is an
(02:28):
energy and of force we need to continue in strengthen
until the twenty twenty four elections. It's a scary time,
there's no denying it. Everybody knows democracy is a participation sport. Right,
you got to participate, and it requires that it requires truth,
and it requires participation. Today's guest on the show is
(02:51):
Alexandra Pelosi, daughter of Nancy and Paul Pelosi, and an
outstanding documentarian. Her latest documentary, The Insurrectionist next Door, I
think should be required viewing for every American before we
vote in November twenty twenty four. With camera in hand
and no crew or even security, Alexandra interviewed January sixth rioters,
(03:16):
people who had pled guilty in court and were not
denying their role, people who she saw with her own
eyes stormed the Capitol. And her previous documentary was Pelosi
in the House, a doc about her mother, including the
January sixth riot insurrection and violence which Alexandra and her
son were caught in while making that film. This is
(03:39):
a great conversation with an amazing artist and woman, and
I'm really happy that she came to talk about this
amazing documentary. Here's me an, Alexandra Pelosi, Hi, Hi, how
(04:04):
are you are? You?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Look at you fabulous?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
First of all, I just watched it again this morning.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Oh my god, that's punishment.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What are you kidding me? A great documentary I love
to watch more than once. I always think, what did
I not see what did I not?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, it was interesting because when you watch a documentary
more than once, you realize things and then it changes
your opinion, and then you're confused and you don't know
if you you know if you love everyone or hate everybody.
Like when you say, whit love this movie? Let me
show it to you, you show to someone else and
then you look at it completely differently.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, well I watched it twice and I have to
tell you, I think it should be required viewing for
all of America. How did you come up with the
concept of I'm going in there to those people who
threatened to kill my mother on the sixth. Then I'm
going in there and I'm going to talk to them
one on one, and no matter what, I'm going to
(04:52):
love them.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
First of all, I was in the Capitol on January sixth,
and I saw those people on January sixth window from
the window, and my sixteen year old son was with me,
and he said, what if they stormed the Capitol? And
all the grown up security guards were like, come on, kid,
gooit imagination? So he called it. He knew right away
he was getting to the point where we're saying, I
(05:15):
think we should get out of here. So at some
point we evacuated. We had to go with her. Of course,
as a document filmmaker, I wanted to stay. I was
done to stay behind. One of my great regrets is,
damn I wish I had like hid and stayed behind
so I could.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Have Thank god you didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Okay enough, I probably wouldn't be here today to talk
to you exactly, But at the time I wanted to
see him, so two minutes if you watch the video
camera now, you can see that two minutes before they
got to the speaker, she had been evacuated, so there
were two minutes behind us, and I just spent the
rest after that night, I wanted to know who are
(05:51):
these people? Now we went back into the building after
they had been all cleared out, and we'd seen they
literally shit in the place. They destroyed everything they live
And who would do this to the capital of the
United States? Forget about your politics. You wouldn't do this
to your mother's house. You wouldn't do this to the
(06:11):
You know, if you were at the mall, you know,
they literally they broke all these windows and doors and
mirrors and all the office supply, all the mugs in
the kitchen, they just broke everything. So I was fascinated
by are these people who does this? And I assumed
I started reading. I started calling some of them in jail,
(06:33):
and one of them named Ronnie Sandlin, sent me two
books from jail. Yes, they have Amazon access to computers,
and they have Amazon and jail. He sent me The
True Believer and The Crowd, which are two books they
use in psychology one O one classes, and they explained
that when you're in the heat of the moment in
a crowd, you loose yourself. Yes, And I was fascinated by,
(06:55):
who are these nice human beings that live next door
to you that lost themselves on that day and just
did really stupid and terrible things. So I picked the
people in the film for very specific reasons. For example,
there was someone who was accused of pooping in the hallway,
so I went to go talk to him, and his
(07:16):
excuse was he had a medical disorder, and he showed
me the scars and there was a whole backstory. But
his explanation was I couldn't find a bathroom. Okay, that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
While I was rioting. I have you know, I have Celiac,
and I had to shit in the Capitol. Okay, that's
an excuse.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Okay, now I know now speaking of shitting. Since we're
on the subject, I feel like I need to just
go back to the beginning and tell you something. Since
I saw you last, as you know, since we've both
worked with Sheila and Evans. She was my mentor and
Yoda at HBO. We did fourteen films together.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And mine in any way, in every way, I just
adore her. Right.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So when we were making films, we made a lot
of films. I made a film called Meet the Donors
that was about going to the homes of the billionaires
that are funding our democracy to say why do you
give so much money to these political candidates. That's an
example of a movie. And Sheila said to me, we
don't shit on people's couches. We walk in, We ask
(08:16):
them the questions, We hear what they have to say.
We don't start a fight and get thrown out. That's
not who you are. That's Michael Moore. There is someone
out there that makes those kinds of movies. That's not
who you are. You're a lady. Your job is to
walk in, ask all the questions you have, accept what
they say. Maybe they're lying to you, maybe they're exaggerating,
(08:38):
or who cares. You just accept what they tell you,
and you leave polite, and you make friends, and you
invite them to the premiere, and you try to understand.
You don't go into the edit room and then destroy
them and make them look silly and say, these are
the assholes that are buying our democracy. You accept what
they tell you. That's the most anyone has ever gotten
(08:58):
out of these billionaires that are funding them atocracy. I'm
curious what they have to say. Let's hear what they
have to say, and let's give them the benefits of
the doubt. So that's the ethos. Just so you understand
how I go into the process of these films. So
I didn't walk into anyone's house with the intention of
shitting on their couch.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
However, you walked in to somebody's living room who said
they wanted to kill your mom, Oh for sure. While
they were riding, while they were breaking down the signs
of our door, well, they were chanting looking for her.
That that's pretty intense, Alex. That's not like, Oh, I
just was curious that these are the people who wanted
(09:39):
to kill your mom and Pence that day for.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Sure, and I more than anyone I think you have
on your podcast, am qualified to say. And they mean
it because you know what happened to my dad. He
almost got killed by one of these crazies. So I
know it's real. I don't have any delusions about oh,
you know, oh they're just nice people who got lost
(10:04):
in the moment. They mean it. This local violence in
America is real. Ask Steve Scalise, ask Paul Polusi, they
will tell you it is real. So yes, that still
I've always had this documentary desire to try to understand
even though it's come so close. It's comes so close,
(10:27):
but I still am left with this. I just I'm
just I'm just trying to make some peace. This is
some kind of therapy. It's some kind of coping mechanism. Yes,
obviously I never told my parents I was making this movie,
and then when it came out, they said, My mother
said to me, this is probably just your coping mesicanism.
This is probably what you do to heal. This is
(10:48):
you need to talk to people. Instead of going to
a therapist. You actually just go to the house of
the people that wanted to kill me to ask them
to their face, because that's the only way. Some old
guy on the couch isn't going to give me any answer.
But at least the white supremacist who actually attempted murder
if someone else and went to jail for that may
give you some answer that helps you understand. Maybe not.
(11:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I found watching it how many of the people needed
mental health assessments. Like the first guy with the cats
with the long hair, like I thought, is he on
the autism spectrum? Is he like he seemed to kind
of not really be fully there? Is that? Did you
(11:34):
find that? Or no?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I hate to break this to you, but everyone in
the movie are the most sane people I met. I talked,
oh my dozens more that didn't make the cut because
I was afraid that they weren't mentally capable of understanding
that they were going to be on TV and that
this was going to be So these are actually the
sane ones, believe it or not, These are the best
(11:58):
I actually I decided I did that in the edit room.
As you know, since you're a Doctumaryville maker. Yes, everyone
gets made in an edit room. So editor, we wake
up My editor, Jeff Barts. He's been editing for He
edited Pumping Iron. He's eight years old. He's been doing
this forever. In the morning, we would walk in together
and he'd say, who do you want him to be?
(12:21):
When we were making the edits, are we making him
a extreme white supremacist Nazi loser or are we going
to be charitable and let him present his story of
why he had to join a white supremacy gang and
give him some benefit of the doubt. That was a
mathematical formula we had to play with every day, and
(12:42):
in that process, a lot of people got edited out
because we had to say, honestly, do you think this
person is mentally fit to be in a documentary on HBO?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And you know that young boy, he looks young, who
wants a black wife and a biracial family, who was
a porn star and who bit there's a need for
some kind of medication and or intensive therapy intervention like
that one. I was like, well, now come on, everybody,
is there's some of the things that this person is
(13:13):
saying is indicative of severe trauma untreated.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
For sure. I thought of it. I kept saying, this
is a mosaic of broken America. It just gives you
a picture of how broken America is right now, because
every time I left someone's house, I would think, was
that a really mentally ill person? Or was that just
a Trump loving idiot who got carried away on that day.
(13:43):
I still some nights I stay up wondering, deep deep
down if a lot of those people, Yeah, I who
say they all need some real serious medical attention.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
But that's the populace of the country. And that's what's happening.
And you know, we have all these horrific shootings and
what and oh they said he had he was hearing voices.
You don't say, where's the help for the mentally ill people?
It's like there, it's like an epidemic or something that.
And I think this is all trauma related. It's all trauma.
And then you go back to your trauma as a child.
(14:20):
And you know, here I am, at sixty one years old,
you know, still molding the clay of your childhood trauma
into some you know usable you know, piece of art
or something.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Look how well you've done with that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It's work, yes, but yes, it's working for me.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
For you. You've turned it into something. For them, they
turned it into a criminal record for breaking into the capitol,
and none of.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Them felt blame or felt you know, one guy said
he felt lied to, but the vast majority said, no,
I don't blame him. It was my decision and I
now have to pay for my crime. And that's when
I thought, I wonder if that guy on the spectrum,
you know, very clear, black and white thinking, very you know,
Or how about the ones who said I wasn't really
(15:10):
I was just there and my uncle drove me and
I just you know, picked up the Pelosi sign. I
don't know, you know, like what happened? How did that
go down? How does that happen that you just happen
to be walking around with your uncle and people have
guns and you know, masks, and or you're in the
(15:30):
middle of a riot and you find time to take
a post to selfie. You know, I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It's not going to end well for that young lady.
She was a farm girl from Missouri who never left Missouri.
She just wanted to get out of town. She was bored,
she had nothing going on in her life. She stole
that sign. She got thirty days in jail for that.
But then dot dot Dot the kind of shame that
that crime put on her psyche when she went on
(15:58):
the internet in this edition, were all making fun of her.
Led her to, you know, to drink and drive and
black out and kill a mother and almost kill a father,
and she's going to be spending a lot of her
life in jail.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
The rest of her life.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
In January sixth really ruined her life, completely ruined her life.
So right, some people they went into the building. You know,
the gay Obama voter, remember him, He served ninety days,
lived happily ever after. He right now is trying to
stand up comedy in Greenwich Village. He's fine. It didn't
(16:34):
really do great damage to his life. But the other
woman that you're talking about from Missouri, she is going
to it that one day did ruin her whole life.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Now, how did your sixteen year old recover from being
that close to the trauma that he was prescient enough
to alert you to.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
He told me that he would never speak to me
again if I went to talk to any of these people.
So I don't think he.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Likes He's probably afraid, right. Afraid is a fear might
be the first thing there.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, his name is Paul, and my father's name is Paul,
So I think he has a legitimate reason to be afraid.
I don't think it's all just hocus focus, you know,
crazy shit people say on the internet. I think it's real.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So I think he was afraid for you, not afraid
for himself.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I think there is a really legitimate argument that these
people do not deserve a microphone. Right, That would be
the NPR take of this movie. How dare you give
the microphone to these haters? Why are you even giving
them any airtime? And my answer is, well, first of all,
all of these people pled guilty, which means they admitted
(17:46):
to what they did. They didn't go to court and
say no, no, no, they didn't fight it. They pled guilty.
A majority of them were misdemeanors, So six months in jail,
eight months in jail, but still only a misdemeanor. And
then they are now out and available. They're allowed to
go vote in the next election and participate in the
next election. And if they cared enough to get off
their couch and drive all the way across the country
(18:08):
to go storm the capitol, what have you done lately?
You know, I mean personally, like there's a lot of
protests going on where I live in Greenwich Village. Right now,
I just ride and lock the door. I don't even
want to get involved. I don't want to take a side.
I don't want to fight in my backyard. You know,
I'm just right. I don't have the stomach for this,
you know, political activity.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Right, right, But yet you have the stomach for you know,
facing people that many on the liberal left, which I
consider myself a part of, you know, would not be
able to find common ground with right.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean, my whole philosophy was. On the very first
morning that I started filming, I went to the Lincoln
Memorial with the very first person that's in the film.
His name is Paul Hodgkins and his lawyer, Patrick Leduke.
And Patrick was explaining to me that, you know, Lincoln's
second inaugural, the walls are on the words are on
the wall of the Lincoln omar charity towards all, malice,
(19:10):
towards none. You don't have to You have to try
to make forgiveness. I should say, you have to try
to make forgiveness because they are your neighbors and they
are ruling in the next election. People come out because
they hate, they don't come out because they love I mean,
I'm Obama. They came out because they loved Obama. But
(19:32):
usually I think in the every four years, HBO makes
me do an election film. Okay, so I'm back on
the trail already filming, you know, talking to voters, and
I find that the people who hate are really inspired,
and they really get off their couch and they really
show up. And I don't know. I mean when they
give this argument, this is one of the most often
(19:52):
heard arguments, which is the election was stolen in twenty twenty.
I know the election was stolen in twenty twenty. Well
how can you prove it? Well, because I mean, look
how many people show up for Trump and Joe Biden.
He didn't get those kinds of crowds. And you're saying, well,
they voted for him, but they don't love him so
much that they're going to go storm the capitol for him.
They yeah, they may have voted for him, but doesn't
(20:12):
mean they love him that much. So I think people
show up because they feel hate in their soul and
that's what inspires them to go wait in long lines.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
And I think that that's what he triggers in people.
Donald Trump, the you know, the hatred that lives in
the corners of our souls. Right there's there's tiny little
paces of being human that you can't even face. And
and and here it is more with Alexandra Pelosi right
(20:43):
after this. You know, you want to reach people and
(21:08):
make them remember when it wasn't so chaotic, pre internet.
I think the Internet has been amazing, and it's been
so horrific that it's hard to even quantify it.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, it's for sure destroyed the civil discourse. I mean,
you can't have a conversation anymore because everybody's in their
own little bubble getting fed exactly what they want to hear.
And so it's impossible to have conversations with people because
they don't have facts. That's the most frustrating part I
interview people Like this week, I've been at the courthouse.
You know, Trump's at the courthouse in New York, and
(21:44):
I go down and I talk to his supporters the
show outside and I say, if he goes to jail,
are you still going to support him? And they say,
of course, you're still gonna vote for me if he's
in jail, of course, But what about January sixth? The
whole insurrection. He didn't do anything. Well, he said, I'm
gonna march up there with you. He never said that. See,
he said that I can prove it. I play it
for them, and then they either say, oh oh yeah,
(22:06):
I forgot or I never saw that. It reminds me
of the point that I was making that Jason the
day Obama voter in my film. His husband watched my
movie and said, after I never saw any of that
violence on January sixth. Wait, it's almost two years later
and you never saw any video of any violence on
(22:28):
January sixth. That means you live in a totally different
media ecosystem that.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Only well, yeah, they live in the ecosystem that says
it was a normal tourist day. You know, right, Can
I ask you what is the this year's HBO election
movie going to feature? Is it going to be similar?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's a really really unpredictable. That's the thing of a documentary.
You just never know what you going to get, You
know what documentaries are just like children, Yeah, brought through
get when they're little. They're cute and you think, take
that home with me. You have no idea what's going
to happen overnight? Is forever in politics, So anything going
to happen and the next correct. So who knows where
(23:15):
this is gonna take us. One could be in jail,
one could be who knows. So, yeah, it hasn't been
He hasn't been written yet. It hasn't even we haven't
even started writing it. I thought that Mike Pence was
going to do better than he did. So this is
one of those unpredicted were in a moment in American
politics where it's hard to predict because you think common
(23:38):
sense would dictate there would be some market for someone
like a Mike Pence. I would have guessed that he
would have been a good candidate. But shows how much
I know everything.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think that all the Trump people, like you know,
hate him, and so you know that took a large
swath of the Republican Party or former republic Party, right.
I think he's seen as a weak man who didn't
do the right thing, and you know, I mean, I
don't know why he would want to run after they
were shouting, hang Mike Pence. I don't know why he
(24:13):
would choose to try to be president. But I wasn't
surprised that he didn't do well. Okay, So I thought
he didn't have any gravitas, you know, they kind of
emasculated him.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
He had an event in New Hampshire the night that
my show was airing. I wanted to go, but I
couldn't go because my show is airing on HBO. But
he had an event with one of the Jan sixers,
like an event hosted by a Jan sixer, someone who
went and you know, served time for Jan six was
hosting an event sponsoring the event, and Mike Pence spoke
(24:44):
and I thought, this is a new, complicated part of
the dynamic. You're hanging out with the guy who actually
came to hang you, right, that's a person who doesn't
know who he is. So if you read it like that,
you'd say, yeah, maybe it was doomed.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean I think that, you know,
seeing the hanging gallows there and it was like it
was like I couldn't even believe what was happening. What
would have happened if God forbid, they got your mother
or him? What would have happened? Would calmer minds have prevailed?
(25:25):
I don't think. So.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That was a.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Crazy group of agitated, riled up lied to people, right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
But so this is the question you asked, This is
the eternal question, and I have lost a lot of
sleep on this question. Clearly there were different levels of participation.
They're distincts. The Department of Justice has arrested, you know,
over eleven hundred people have been arrested. About three thousand
(25:57):
went into the building, not even half of them and arrested.
There are plenty of people that went into the building
and never got charged with anything. You know, the FBI
showed up at their house, talked to them, let them go.
There were clearly militant organizations, the Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers,
who had communication amongst themselves about what they were planning
(26:19):
to do that day. And we know that. And the
leader of the Proud Boys sent a message on telegram
to all of us brothers saying, We're going to get
the Normies to burn the city to ash today. And
those are the people in my movie, the Normies, the
normal people that they were, They were part of the chorus.
They weren't in on the plan that the Proud Boys
(26:42):
and the Oath Keepers met in that parking lot the
night before to coordinate. So when you ask yourself that
question of what would have happened. If they've actually ran
into Mike Pants with it actually hung him. I have
to believe that there were enough normal people in the
crowd that would have prevented something really, really terrible. But
(27:05):
maybe that's just wishful thinking.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, I think we can't allow ourselves. It was bad
enough as it was, and you know, cops getting hurt,
and I mean it was bad enough as it was.
We can't even imagine that next level. And you know,
it's really a terrifying concept. And I was so moved
(27:29):
by the one guy who said, I can show you
clips of how there were Antifat people in there, right
And he starts with them looking for your mother or
breaking down her doors, going to her office, and you said, listen,
I don't want to hate you, I want to love you.
I thought that's the whole message of the movie. You
(27:51):
tried very hard and you got there, Alex. You did
not punt and judge. You showed up, looked them in
the eye, shook a hand, made relationships. Every one of
those people trusted you. Every one of those people was
open and honest, and you know you're a Pelosi. That's
big for them too. Imagine somebody saying to you, did
(28:13):
do you want to kill my mother? That's heavy?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
You know, it is heavy. Gosh, you're making me, You're
making me reconsidered. Maybe maybe this wasn't such a good
idea after all.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
No, I think it should. I think everyone should see it,
because you can't have a big brush that you paint
with and go, Okay, I'm just going to black and
white my life. And these are the good people and
these are the bad people. And you know, Rumy says
out in the field behind what's right and wrong, I'll
meet you there, right Like, I think everyone should watch
(28:51):
it because we can't view each other as such cartoon characters.
We have to see the humanity in each other. And
you found the humanity and even the guy with proud
boy on his head with all those children and the
wife there trying, you know, not to inflame the situation
(29:11):
after his transphobic comment about his child, right you know,
and she's like, no, no, don't say that, because we're
not like that. People think we're like that, but we're
not like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Right, Well. The reason why I included him, remember I
told you I intentionally in the edit room, we had
a lot of choices to make of who was going
to make the cut. And the reason Billy Kannuts and
the rapper Playboy why he made the cut was because
he sings these terrible songs like f Joe Biden, F
Joe Biden. That's his whole thing, catchy little songs that
(29:45):
are all pretty like it sounds pretty hateful, but they're songs, okay.
And when he went to court for sentencing, the judge
just was reviewing the song lyrics and saying, well, you
said Nancy don't want us in her office, Well, he
didn't go into Nancy's office or and these are songs
(30:06):
that he sang after January sixth, He didn't sing them
before to get people inspired and riled up. He sang
things like, well, just kind of anti Biden anthems right now.
The judge was calling it hate speech and put him
in jail for six months in a federal penitentiary, the
same federal penitentiary where the unibomber is or what wow.
(30:27):
And so it was interesting to meet. Now criminal history
has to weigh in there. He had a criminal history
been in a jail, so they do factor that into
your equation. But if you take the Criminal Code truspassing
that he was charged with, and you take that code
and type it into the Department of Justice website and
you look at the pages and pages of people that
were charged with it. There are plenty of people that
(30:48):
did exactly what he did on January sixth, and they
got probation, house arrest, or you know, nothing at all.
And so it was interesting that he got six months
in a real lockdown situation because he sang really anti
Biden songs.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And were they able to appeal that. No.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I mean, he went and he served as time. He
said it was the worst six months of his life,
and it was really, you know, just hard, hard time,
but for free passing. So I think, you know, it
reminds me of sort of like those ACLU cases of
like going into Guantanamo Bay and saying, yeah, we know,
you're probably a terrible person who's friends with Osama bin Laden,
but you still shouldn't have been waterboarded. I'm not excusing
(31:28):
anyone who marched into the Capitol. Lindsey Graham would tell
you that everybody who walked into that building that day
is a domestic terrorist. So let's take him. Let's take
his standard, right, Okay, they're all the mess here. Now
let's go from there and say, now, what did you
actually do? Did you break anything, did you steal anything?
It was the most filmed photographed crime scene in American history,
(31:53):
so we know what everybody did. They have a million
camera angles of every person that walked in that building,
so we know what they did. So the people in
my film, they walked in, they walked out. One stolen
is a Pelosi sign. Once stole a book. But that's
the extent of the crimes they committed, and they went
to jail for that. And you shouldn't walk into the
capitol and steal a book, and you shouldn't walk into
(32:14):
the Capitol and steal Nancy Pelosi's signed. But at the
same time, you have to remember these were called misdemeanors
in the core right, And to me, a misdemeanor, I
mean I forgive. I have friends that have committed misdemeanors
and I have forgiven them for that. So the conversation
has to go somewhere from there, right, right, right, just
(32:37):
say they all committed misdemeanors, they're all domestic terrorists.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
They all deserve the same treatment, right because they were
the ones who walked in, who was with their uncle,
And I mean that you told it already about the accident,
that tragic you know, life of that girl forever changed,
and all of these people, it profoundly changed their life,
but it did not necessarily change their politics exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You nailed it. And they're probably going to be much
more involved and activated in the next election than I am.
So I mean one hundred percent than I am, but
more than my neighbors, will, you know, And so you
have to think they're really you know, they've been radicalized,
(33:23):
they've gone to jail for their beliefs. They are true believers,
and you know, I know that we talked after Bill Maher.
Bill Maher's whole point when I did the show, he said,
there's something noble about what they did because they believe
in some of their true believers. They actually went and
followed through with their political conviction. And I didn't want
(33:45):
to start a fight with him because you know, we've
been friends a long time and it's his show, and
you never you know, I don't go into shit on
his couch, you know, correct. But what I wanted to say,
you know, it's like that what you wanted to say
to him was what I wanted to say is it
was based on a lie. It's one thing to have convictions.
You can believe something in your core and go fight
(34:06):
for it. But what if everything you believe is based
on a lie. Their belief is the election was stolen, right,
But that's a lie. It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
That's a lot that's.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Been proven in Quirkys after, quirk is after, but they
will never believe that. So that's the frustrating part.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And that's why you almost need deep programmers who get
people out of scientology, who get people out of other
cults that have a real hold on the mindset of
people to the point where they start to depersonalize and
become just a member of this thing. I had a
question last week here on the show. People can leave
(34:43):
a message for a question or whatever, and this guy,
Preston so Sweet was saying that and his mother were
the best friends, and they were both, you know, grew
up liberal and progressive, and then she kind of took
a right turn a couple of years ago, and like
Fox News, you know, neppt and programmed his mother and
(35:03):
she's been gone. You know. Maga loss is something that
families have to talk about because it really happens. And
then he was saying, as a gay man that he
gets to the point where, well, can I continue doing
this when I know that my mother is voting and
living everything against who I am and what I believe,
(35:24):
you know, and it's very sad cults do that they
separate from.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Maybe the solution is we should make everybody switch their
social media feed the week before Thanksgiving, and you know,
everybody who lives on you know, their right wing ecosystem
should be switched over to a different feed, and then
we should be switched over to their feed so that
we can understand the way they think. Because I do
believe when Jason Riddle's husband said I'd never seen violence
(35:53):
on January sixth, I thought, bless his heart, he genuinely
had a totally different version of realcy that he was
living in. And his husband is in jail.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Well, and that's you know, and that's also willful blindness, right,
Willful blindness I think is going on right now, big
time all over the world where what you see and
what you're experiencing and what you're ingesting people are saying
is not happening. And that happened with Trump. That happened
(36:25):
with Trump, And I don't think that mass media has
the ability to sway millions of Americans' views anymore. I
think that people see them as biased and with their
own self interest. And you know, I don't think it
is the fourth estate anymore that it used to be
(36:47):
when we were growing up, when Walter Cronkite said something
and then the Vietnam War stopped. You know, who has
that power now to say wake up Trump? Culters Rosiodon,
Oh what are you kidding me? I have a little podcast.
I can't deal with the pressure of life. Is there
a way to come together?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I don't know. Do you think there's a way that
come together?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I think with shows like Yours and stuff like Truth
going on and people telling truth and speaking truth to
power that you know, we have to embrace each other,
these two halves of the same hole. We have to
find a way to come to mutual respect. And it's
(37:32):
very hard after all of the stuff that went down,
you know, Trump wise, very very hard. It's like, you know,
he's like Net and Yahoo for America. Trump.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know, some people better wake up because they may
be going straight diving straight into another Trump presidency, right.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Now correct, that's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Okay, Well this is really up uplifting.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Sorry, sorry I took my effects or I'm supposed to
be happier than I am.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
But I mean, it's really hard not to be sad
about America right now.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
It's hard. It's terrible. We got to get this country
some infrastructure right, especially for mental health, I think. And
maybe no more guns please. Okay, Rosie for president, that's next.
But I think that you're a great filmmaker, and I
think that you've done a lot for all of us
(38:29):
by releasing all those docs with Sheila and this one
The Insurrectionist next Door on Max also known as HBO,
and you can get it on Amazon Prime too.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I don't know if stuff like that, Yes you can.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I looked it up today. I was watching it again.
But it's great to talk to you. Tell your family,
I said, hello, I'm very sorry what happened to your dad.
I think your mom rocks the boat. And I think
you're pretty great too. And I hope that one of
my kids grows up to be just like you with
a camera somewhere telling the track.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, welcome, that's really sweet. I think my kids want
to grow up to be anything but me.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, I understand, same with mine. No interest. I'm like,
come on, we could go on tour gypsy. They're like,
I don't sing. Oh jeez. We'll be back in a
moment with questions from you are wonderful listeners right after this.
(39:43):
I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I know it was
kind of intense and different than normal, but you know what,
hasn't been a good couple of weeks for mommy, but
I'm doing my best. I'm getting through it. I hope
you enjoyed it, and I hope that you are too
doing Okay, Okay, we got some love listeners who left
a voice memo and we're going to answer them right now.
(40:04):
Hit it.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Hello, Rosie. This is Michael from outside Chicago. My three
year old son is currently obsessed with the movie Tarzan
and his favorite song is Trashing the Camp. He does
all of the sound effects to start the song and
(40:27):
all of the gibberish sounds that go with it, and
it's truly a joy watching him sing along, especially since
he's been battling a chronic illness that is not outwardly
noticeable by people who meet him, but has definitely been
(40:49):
stressful for our entire family to be dealing with and
so seeing the joy on his face when he sings
along with that song certainly something that helps us to
get through it. And so I kind of had had
two questions on that topic. One was if you had
(41:10):
any fond memories of recording that song that you wanted
to share about what that was like for you. And
the second one was if you had any advice for
parents of young children who are going through health issues
and how you cope with it and how you make
(41:33):
it through. Thank you for all you do. Been a
fan since when you were after school programming that I
would watch with my mom who since passed, and definitely
have been enjoying everything that you do. So thank you
for doing this podcast and I look forward to hearing
(41:53):
whatever you have to share. Thanks well.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Thank you Michael. What a beautiful note, not note, I
guess voice message, but beautiful sentiments. And I'm sorry about
your child's struggling with some unseen illness. Sometimes it's harder
when a child is diagnosed with something that is not
is easily indicative of hardship, you know, so people expect
(42:20):
your child maybe who's three to act accordingly, but there
could be other challenges, and it sounds like there are
that you're facing. You just got to do it day
by day, honey, That's what I have to say. It's
one day at a time, it's one step forward at
a time, and it's love, love, love, love love, you know.
And it's very very unnerving as a parent to think
(42:47):
that you need to have all the answers or you
need to know exactly what it's going to be in
life for your children, when frankly, nobody can do that.
You know, all we can do is provide security, safety, life,
and a sense of being seen. So it sounds like
you know what you're doing, Michael. It sounds like you're
(43:07):
right on it. And I'm sorry for the pain that
you and your family are in and I wish the
best to your little boy now. When we were filming
that movie, Phil Collins came in and he was the
musical director and he had written that and so you know,
after my first take, he said, Rosie, you're a little
(43:29):
underne You're not in the pocket. And I had no
idea what he meant. I was like, okay, all right,
let me try it again. Eli think you and I
don't think I ever got it right, but we recorded
it a bunch of times and we just kind of
kept adding different lines of shoe banoo, baboo, shaba shuba abamboobiah.
You know. We kept doing that over and over and over,
(43:51):
and then Phil, who is a genius, laid it all
out and it became that that beautiful song and a
lot of kids, I think relate to that little song.
And I've told this story before, but my son, who
is now twenty eight years old, when he was your
son's age, the movie opened and he was so young.
I thought, I'm not going to explain this to him.
You know that I'm a voice in this, He's not
(44:12):
going to know that. So we went to the movie
theater and about halfway through the movie, he stood up
on the chair and scream that monkey's my mama. So
you know, kids, no kids, no. Much love to you
Michael and your family, and thank you so much for
listening and for being a part of this Onward podcast.
(44:33):
We got one more now from someone named Frank. They
tell me, let's hear.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
It, Hi, Rosie, my name is Frank. And before it
get to my question, I just wanted to say thank
you so much for being yourself over the years, You're
giving myself and I'm sure many other people confidence and
joy and just wanted to say big thank you to that.
It means a lot. Well, my question for you is
(44:58):
actually related to niece Spears's new memoir that she just released.
I know, over the years when you had your talk show,
you were really really kind and you had her on
a lot of times, and I remember watching those when
I was younger, and I really really enjoyed the interactions
between you guys because it was just so cute and innocent,
(45:21):
and over the years, even when you were on the view,
I remember when she finally got divorced from Kafed and
all that, you had confetti coming out of the sky
and it was it was so funny. But my question
is would you ever interview her, you know, being you
kind of had a relationship with her from the very beginning.
(45:45):
I know she said she has no interest in doing
interviews at the moment, but if the chance ever came,
would you want to interview her? And do you plan
on reading her memoir? I just got mine and it
is a really good read, So just wanted to know
your thoughts on that. Thanks Rosie, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Bye, Thank you, Frank, thank you for that lovely message. Yes,
I have her book. I have been reading it. I
love Britney Spears. But it was many years ago, and
she was so young, you know. What I saw was
like a teenager without any real guidance. She had a
woman who was maybe eight or ten years older than her,
(46:24):
but but you know, not enough to be parental in
my opinion, And that was the woman who was her guardian,
who was always with her at the show, and who
was always you know, in a parental role. And so
I just felt so strongly that she needed protection, you know,
and tried to support her in any way that I could.
(46:45):
Would I do an interview now if she wanted to,
I would do whatever she wanted. I would love to
go have a conversation with her. I would love to
have dinner with her. I would love to do it
privately or if she chose publicly. But I think the
book is is so far a beautiful and honest reflection
of a terrible, terrible time in her life, and I
(47:07):
think she needs compassion and understanding. And I love her,
I always have, I always will. Now having said that,
I haven't seen her or spoken to her since for
twenty three years, maybe even more. I have nothing but
love and respect for her, nothing and I can't wait
to finish the book. This book is Britney Spears, and
(47:28):
it's what she wants to say, and I'm here for it.
I'm totally here for it. Well, thank you, Frank and
thank you Michael, both of you for calling in and listen.
Next week's guest is a woman who I met on TikTok,
Alison Joseph. She's someone I started talking to online. Her
(47:50):
name on the TikTok is jew in the city, and
she is very articulate about representation of Jewish people in
the media, in the world. And you know, we converse
a lot through the DMS, and I said, hey, what
do you think. So it's a conversation that I think
(48:12):
we all need to have, especially before we join our
families on the holiday. You know, it's not a history
lesson at all. It's a conversation about compassion, love and humanity.
That's next week, Alison Joseph, right here on onward with me,
Rosie O'Donnell, Peace, everyone, peace and onward. What other choice
(48:33):
do we have
Hi, everybody, you found me. It's Rosie O'Donnell here on onward.
And guess what fantastic news. The sag and After strike
is over. And I am so happy about that and
so proud of the negotiating committee led by Fran Dresher,
who is one of the smartest people I've ever met
in my life. I love and adore her. She's the
(00:32):
big sister I dreamed of having, and I am so
happy to get through life with her in my orbit.
And so Fran Dresher, thank you, thank you. And now
we can talk about all movies and everything. And I
saw Naiad. It's on Netflix, Jody Foster and that Benning
epic film. Beautifully shot, the colors are gorgeous, the acting
(00:58):
is astounding, and just how they shot her swimming in
the terror of it and you feel it so well.
And listen, we weren't allowed to talk about or promote
or whatever the movies that we've seen. And truthfully, since
the strike started, I haven't seen that many movies, and
in fact, I've seen very few. I've been watching, for
(01:21):
lack of a better word, crap reality TV. I guess
that's what you call it, right, crap reality where you
know Love in the Wild. Now, I thought this was
a new show, Love in the Wild. Apparently it's not.
It's been on a long time. But I was watching
shows like that and staying away from the news. But
I saw a Naiad had been released to stream on Netflix,
(01:43):
and I watched it, and I'm so impressed with the
film and the relationship that Annette and Jody have, And
I would love to have anyone involved with that film
on this podcast. So if anyone knows anyone who was
on that film wants to come and talk to me
about it, I would love to have Diana Naiad herself
(02:05):
sit here and tell me about her life. What a
fascinating woman, What an amazing friendship and relationship she had,
and what unbelievable strength and fortitude and courage and every
word you can think of that means that really pretty amazing.
Excellent voter turnout turned out on Tuesday, which is an
(02:28):
energy and of force we need to continue in strengthen
until the twenty twenty four elections. It's a scary time,
there's no denying it. Everybody knows democracy is a participation sport. Right,
you got to participate, and it requires that it requires truth,
and it requires participation. Today's guest on the show is
(02:51):
Alexandra Pelosi, daughter of Nancy and Paul Pelosi, and an
outstanding documentarian. Her latest documentary, The Insurrectionist next Door, I
think should be required viewing for every American before we
vote in November twenty twenty four. With camera in hand
and no crew or even security, Alexandra interviewed January sixth rioters,
(03:16):
people who had pled guilty in court and were not
denying their role, people who she saw with her own
eyes stormed the Capitol. And her previous documentary was Pelosi
in the House, a doc about her mother, including the
January sixth riot insurrection and violence which Alexandra and her
son were caught in while making that film. This is
(03:39):
a great conversation with an amazing artist and woman, and
I'm really happy that she came to talk about this
amazing documentary. Here's me an, Alexandra Pelosi, Hi, Hi, how
(04:04):
are you are? You?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Look at you fabulous?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
First of all, I just watched it again this morning.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Oh my god, that's punishment.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What are you kidding me? A great documentary I love
to watch more than once. I always think, what did
I not see what did I not?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, it was interesting because when you watch a documentary
more than once, you realize things and then it changes
your opinion, and then you're confused and you don't know
if you you know if you love everyone or hate everybody.
Like when you say, whit love this movie? Let me
show it to you, you show to someone else and
then you look at it completely differently.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, well I watched it twice and I have to
tell you, I think it should be required viewing for
all of America. How did you come up with the
concept of I'm going in there to those people who
threatened to kill my mother on the sixth. Then I'm
going in there and I'm going to talk to them
one on one, and no matter what, I'm going to
(04:52):
love them.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
First of all, I was in the Capitol on January sixth,
and I saw those people on January sixth window from
the window, and my sixteen year old son was with me,
and he said, what if they stormed the Capitol? And
all the grown up security guards were like, come on, kid,
gooit imagination? So he called it. He knew right away
he was getting to the point where we're saying, I
(05:15):
think we should get out of here. So at some
point we evacuated. We had to go with her. Of course,
as a document filmmaker, I wanted to stay. I was
done to stay behind. One of my great regrets is,
damn I wish I had like hid and stayed behind
so I could.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Have Thank god you didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Okay enough, I probably wouldn't be here today to talk
to you exactly, But at the time I wanted to
see him, so two minutes if you watch the video
camera now, you can see that two minutes before they
got to the speaker, she had been evacuated, so there
were two minutes behind us, and I just spent the
rest after that night, I wanted to know who are
(05:51):
these people? Now we went back into the building after
they had been all cleared out, and we'd seen they
literally shit in the place. They destroyed everything they live
And who would do this to the capital of the
United States? Forget about your politics. You wouldn't do this
to your mother's house. You wouldn't do this to the
(06:11):
You know, if you were at the mall, you know,
they literally they broke all these windows and doors and
mirrors and all the office supply, all the mugs in
the kitchen, they just broke everything. So I was fascinated
by are these people who does this? And I assumed
I started reading. I started calling some of them in jail,
(06:33):
and one of them named Ronnie Sandlin, sent me two
books from jail. Yes, they have Amazon access to computers,
and they have Amazon and jail. He sent me The
True Believer and The Crowd, which are two books they
use in psychology one O one classes, and they explained
that when you're in the heat of the moment in
a crowd, you loose yourself. Yes, And I was fascinated by,
(06:55):
who are these nice human beings that live next door
to you that lost themselves on that day and just
did really stupid and terrible things. So I picked the
people in the film for very specific reasons. For example,
there was someone who was accused of pooping in the hallway,
so I went to go talk to him, and his
(07:16):
excuse was he had a medical disorder, and he showed
me the scars and there was a whole backstory. But
his explanation was I couldn't find a bathroom. Okay, that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
While I was rioting. I have you know, I have Celiac,
and I had to shit in the Capitol. Okay, that's
an excuse.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Okay, now I know now speaking of shitting. Since we're
on the subject, I feel like I need to just
go back to the beginning and tell you something. Since
I saw you last, as you know, since we've both
worked with Sheila and Evans. She was my mentor and
Yoda at HBO. We did fourteen films together.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And mine in any way, in every way, I just
adore her. Right.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So when we were making films, we made a lot
of films. I made a film called Meet the Donors
that was about going to the homes of the billionaires
that are funding our democracy to say why do you
give so much money to these political candidates. That's an
example of a movie. And Sheila said to me, we
don't shit on people's couches. We walk in, We ask
(08:16):
them the questions, We hear what they have to say.
We don't start a fight and get thrown out. That's
not who you are. That's Michael Moore. There is someone
out there that makes those kinds of movies. That's not
who you are. You're a lady. Your job is to
walk in, ask all the questions you have, accept what
they say. Maybe they're lying to you, maybe they're exaggerating,
(08:38):
or who cares. You just accept what they tell you,
and you leave polite, and you make friends, and you
invite them to the premiere, and you try to understand.
You don't go into the edit room and then destroy
them and make them look silly and say, these are
the assholes that are buying our democracy. You accept what
they tell you. That's the most anyone has ever gotten
(08:58):
out of these billionaires that are funding them atocracy. I'm
curious what they have to say. Let's hear what they
have to say, and let's give them the benefits of
the doubt. So that's the ethos. Just so you understand
how I go into the process of these films. So
I didn't walk into anyone's house with the intention of
shitting on their couch.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
However, you walked in to somebody's living room who said
they wanted to kill your mom, Oh for sure. While
they were riding, while they were breaking down the signs
of our door, well, they were chanting looking for her.
That that's pretty intense, Alex. That's not like, Oh, I
just was curious that these are the people who wanted
(09:39):
to kill your mom and Pence that day for.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Sure, and I more than anyone I think you have
on your podcast, am qualified to say. And they mean
it because you know what happened to my dad. He
almost got killed by one of these crazies. So I
know it's real. I don't have any delusions about oh,
you know, oh they're just nice people who got lost
(10:04):
in the moment. They mean it. This local violence in
America is real. Ask Steve Scalise, ask Paul Polusi, they
will tell you it is real. So yes, that still
I've always had this documentary desire to try to understand
even though it's come so close. It's comes so close,
(10:27):
but I still am left with this. I just I'm
just I'm just trying to make some peace. This is
some kind of therapy. It's some kind of coping mechanism. Yes,
obviously I never told my parents I was making this movie,
and then when it came out, they said, My mother
said to me, this is probably just your coping mesicanism.
This is probably what you do to heal. This is
(10:48):
you need to talk to people. Instead of going to
a therapist. You actually just go to the house of
the people that wanted to kill me to ask them
to their face, because that's the only way. Some old
guy on the couch isn't going to give me any answer.
But at least the white supremacist who actually attempted murder
if someone else and went to jail for that may
give you some answer that helps you understand. Maybe not.
(11:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I found watching it how many of the people needed
mental health assessments. Like the first guy with the cats
with the long hair, like I thought, is he on
the autism spectrum? Is he like he seemed to kind
of not really be fully there? Is that? Did you
(11:34):
find that? Or no?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I hate to break this to you, but everyone in
the movie are the most sane people I met. I talked,
oh my dozens more that didn't make the cut because
I was afraid that they weren't mentally capable of understanding
that they were going to be on TV and that
this was going to be So these are actually the
sane ones, believe it or not, These are the best
(11:58):
I actually I decided I did that in the edit room.
As you know, since you're a Doctumaryville maker. Yes, everyone
gets made in an edit room. So editor, we wake
up My editor, Jeff Barts. He's been editing for He
edited Pumping Iron. He's eight years old. He's been doing
this forever. In the morning, we would walk in together
and he'd say, who do you want him to be?
(12:21):
When we were making the edits, are we making him
a extreme white supremacist Nazi loser or are we going
to be charitable and let him present his story of
why he had to join a white supremacy gang and
give him some benefit of the doubt. That was a
mathematical formula we had to play with every day, and
(12:42):
in that process, a lot of people got edited out
because we had to say, honestly, do you think this
person is mentally fit to be in a documentary on HBO?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And you know that young boy, he looks young, who
wants a black wife and a biracial family, who was
a porn star and who bit there's a need for
some kind of medication and or intensive therapy intervention like
that one. I was like, well, now come on, everybody,
is there's some of the things that this person is
(13:13):
saying is indicative of severe trauma untreated.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
For sure. I thought of it. I kept saying, this
is a mosaic of broken America. It just gives you
a picture of how broken America is right now, because
every time I left someone's house, I would think, was
that a really mentally ill person? Or was that just
a Trump loving idiot who got carried away on that day.
(13:43):
I still some nights I stay up wondering, deep deep
down if a lot of those people, Yeah, I who
say they all need some real serious medical attention.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
But that's the populace of the country. And that's what's happening.
And you know, we have all these horrific shootings and
what and oh they said he had he was hearing voices.
You don't say, where's the help for the mentally ill people?
It's like there, it's like an epidemic or something that.
And I think this is all trauma related. It's all trauma.
And then you go back to your trauma as a child.
(14:20):
And you know, here I am, at sixty one years old,
you know, still molding the clay of your childhood trauma
into some you know usable you know, piece of art
or something.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Look how well you've done with that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It's work, yes, but yes, it's working for me.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
For you. You've turned it into something. For them, they
turned it into a criminal record for breaking into the capitol,
and none of.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Them felt blame or felt you know, one guy said
he felt lied to, but the vast majority said, no,
I don't blame him. It was my decision and I
now have to pay for my crime. And that's when
I thought, I wonder if that guy on the spectrum,
you know, very clear, black and white thinking, very you know,
Or how about the ones who said I wasn't really
(15:10):
I was just there and my uncle drove me and
I just you know, picked up the Pelosi sign. I
don't know, you know, like what happened? How did that
go down? How does that happen that you just happen
to be walking around with your uncle and people have
guns and you know, masks, and or you're in the
(15:30):
middle of a riot and you find time to take
a post to selfie. You know, I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It's not going to end well for that young lady.
She was a farm girl from Missouri who never left Missouri.
She just wanted to get out of town. She was bored,
she had nothing going on in her life. She stole
that sign. She got thirty days in jail for that.
But then dot dot Dot the kind of shame that
that crime put on her psyche when she went on
(15:58):
the internet in this edition, were all making fun of her.
Led her to, you know, to drink and drive and
black out and kill a mother and almost kill a father,
and she's going to be spending a lot of her
life in jail.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
The rest of her life.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
In January sixth really ruined her life, completely ruined her life.
So right, some people they went into the building. You know,
the gay Obama voter, remember him, He served ninety days,
lived happily ever after. He right now is trying to
stand up comedy in Greenwich Village. He's fine. It didn't
(16:34):
really do great damage to his life. But the other
woman that you're talking about from Missouri, she is going
to it that one day did ruin her whole life.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Now, how did your sixteen year old recover from being
that close to the trauma that he was prescient enough
to alert you to.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
He told me that he would never speak to me
again if I went to talk to any of these people.
So I don't think he.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Likes He's probably afraid, right. Afraid is a fear might
be the first thing there.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, his name is Paul, and my father's name is Paul,
So I think he has a legitimate reason to be afraid.
I don't think it's all just hocus focus, you know,
crazy shit people say on the internet. I think it's real.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So I think he was afraid for you, not afraid
for himself.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I think there is a really legitimate argument that these
people do not deserve a microphone. Right, That would be
the NPR take of this movie. How dare you give
the microphone to these haters? Why are you even giving
them any airtime? And my answer is, well, first of all,
all of these people pled guilty, which means they admitted
(17:46):
to what they did. They didn't go to court and
say no, no, no, they didn't fight it. They pled guilty.
A majority of them were misdemeanors, So six months in jail,
eight months in jail, but still only a misdemeanor. And
then they are now out and available. They're allowed to
go vote in the next election and participate in the
next election. And if they cared enough to get off
their couch and drive all the way across the country
(18:08):
to go storm the capitol, what have you done lately?
You know, I mean personally, like there's a lot of
protests going on where I live in Greenwich Village. Right now,
I just ride and lock the door. I don't even
want to get involved. I don't want to take a side.
I don't want to fight in my backyard. You know,
I'm just right. I don't have the stomach for this,
you know, political activity.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Right, right, But yet you have the stomach for you know,
facing people that many on the liberal left, which I
consider myself a part of, you know, would not be
able to find common ground with right.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean, my whole philosophy was. On the very first
morning that I started filming, I went to the Lincoln
Memorial with the very first person that's in the film.
His name is Paul Hodgkins and his lawyer, Patrick Leduke.
And Patrick was explaining to me that, you know, Lincoln's
second inaugural, the walls are on the words are on
the wall of the Lincoln omar charity towards all, malice,
(19:10):
towards none. You don't have to You have to try
to make forgiveness. I should say, you have to try
to make forgiveness because they are your neighbors and they
are ruling in the next election. People come out because
they hate, they don't come out because they love I mean,
I'm Obama. They came out because they loved Obama. But
(19:32):
usually I think in the every four years, HBO makes
me do an election film. Okay, so I'm back on
the trail already filming, you know, talking to voters, and
I find that the people who hate are really inspired,
and they really get off their couch and they really
show up. And I don't know. I mean when they
give this argument, this is one of the most often
(19:52):
heard arguments, which is the election was stolen in twenty twenty.
I know the election was stolen in twenty twenty. Well
how can you prove it? Well, because I mean, look
how many people show up for Trump and Joe Biden.
He didn't get those kinds of crowds. And you're saying, well,
they voted for him, but they don't love him so
much that they're going to go storm the capitol for him.
They yeah, they may have voted for him, but doesn't
(20:12):
mean they love him that much. So I think people
show up because they feel hate in their soul and
that's what inspires them to go wait in long lines.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
And I think that that's what he triggers in people.
Donald Trump, the you know, the hatred that lives in
the corners of our souls. Right there's there's tiny little
paces of being human that you can't even face. And
and and here it is more with Alexandra Pelosi right
(20:43):
after this. You know, you want to reach people and
(21:08):
make them remember when it wasn't so chaotic, pre internet.
I think the Internet has been amazing, and it's been
so horrific that it's hard to even quantify it.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, it's for sure destroyed the civil discourse. I mean,
you can't have a conversation anymore because everybody's in their
own little bubble getting fed exactly what they want to hear.
And so it's impossible to have conversations with people because
they don't have facts. That's the most frustrating part I
interview people Like this week, I've been at the courthouse.
You know, Trump's at the courthouse in New York, and
(21:44):
I go down and I talk to his supporters the
show outside and I say, if he goes to jail,
are you still going to support him? And they say,
of course, you're still gonna vote for me if he's
in jail, of course, But what about January sixth? The
whole insurrection. He didn't do anything. Well, he said, I'm
gonna march up there with you. He never said that. See,
he said that I can prove it. I play it
for them, and then they either say, oh oh yeah,
(22:06):
I forgot or I never saw that. It reminds me
of the point that I was making that Jason the
day Obama voter in my film. His husband watched my
movie and said, after I never saw any of that
violence on January sixth. Wait, it's almost two years later
and you never saw any video of any violence on
(22:28):
January sixth. That means you live in a totally different
media ecosystem that.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Only well, yeah, they live in the ecosystem that says
it was a normal tourist day. You know, right, Can
I ask you what is the this year's HBO election
movie going to feature? Is it going to be similar?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's a really really unpredictable. That's the thing of a documentary.
You just never know what you going to get, You
know what documentaries are just like children, Yeah, brought through
get when they're little. They're cute and you think, take
that home with me. You have no idea what's going
to happen overnight? Is forever in politics, So anything going
to happen and the next correct. So who knows where
(23:15):
this is gonna take us. One could be in jail,
one could be who knows. So, yeah, it hasn't been
He hasn't been written yet. It hasn't even we haven't
even started writing it. I thought that Mike Pence was
going to do better than he did. So this is
one of those unpredicted were in a moment in American
politics where it's hard to predict because you think common
(23:38):
sense would dictate there would be some market for someone
like a Mike Pence. I would have guessed that he
would have been a good candidate. But shows how much
I know everything.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think that all the Trump people, like you know,
hate him, and so you know that took a large
swath of the Republican Party or former republic Party, right.
I think he's seen as a weak man who didn't
do the right thing, and you know, I mean, I
don't know why he would want to run after they
were shouting, hang Mike Pence. I don't know why he
(24:13):
would choose to try to be president. But I wasn't
surprised that he didn't do well. Okay, So I thought
he didn't have any gravitas, you know, they kind of
emasculated him.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
He had an event in New Hampshire the night that
my show was airing. I wanted to go, but I
couldn't go because my show is airing on HBO. But
he had an event with one of the Jan sixers,
like an event hosted by a Jan sixer, someone who
went and you know, served time for Jan six was
hosting an event sponsoring the event, and Mike Pence spoke
(24:44):
and I thought, this is a new, complicated part of
the dynamic. You're hanging out with the guy who actually
came to hang you, right, that's a person who doesn't
know who he is. So if you read it like that,
you'd say, yeah, maybe it was doomed.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean I think that, you know,
seeing the hanging gallows there and it was like it
was like I couldn't even believe what was happening. What
would have happened if God forbid, they got your mother
or him? What would have happened? Would calmer minds have prevailed?
(25:25):
I don't think. So.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That was a.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Crazy group of agitated, riled up lied to people, right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
But so this is the question you asked, This is
the eternal question, and I have lost a lot of
sleep on this question. Clearly there were different levels of participation.
They're distincts. The Department of Justice has arrested, you know,
over eleven hundred people have been arrested. About three thousand
(25:57):
went into the building, not even half of them and arrested.
There are plenty of people that went into the building
and never got charged with anything. You know, the FBI
showed up at their house, talked to them, let them go.
There were clearly militant organizations, the Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers,
who had communication amongst themselves about what they were planning
(26:19):
to do that day. And we know that. And the
leader of the Proud Boys sent a message on telegram
to all of us brothers saying, We're going to get
the Normies to burn the city to ash today. And
those are the people in my movie, the Normies, the
normal people that they were, They were part of the chorus.
They weren't in on the plan that the Proud Boys
(26:42):
and the Oath Keepers met in that parking lot the
night before to coordinate. So when you ask yourself that
question of what would have happened. If they've actually ran
into Mike Pants with it actually hung him. I have
to believe that there were enough normal people in the
crowd that would have prevented something really, really terrible. But
(27:05):
maybe that's just wishful thinking.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, I think we can't allow ourselves. It was bad
enough as it was, and you know, cops getting hurt,
and I mean it was bad enough as it was.
We can't even imagine that next level. And you know,
it's really a terrifying concept. And I was so moved
(27:29):
by the one guy who said, I can show you
clips of how there were Antifat people in there, right
And he starts with them looking for your mother or
breaking down her doors, going to her office, and you said, listen,
I don't want to hate you, I want to love you.
I thought that's the whole message of the movie. You
(27:51):
tried very hard and you got there, Alex. You did
not punt and judge. You showed up, looked them in
the eye, shook a hand, made relationships. Every one of
those people trusted you. Every one of those people was
open and honest, and you know you're a Pelosi. That's
big for them too. Imagine somebody saying to you, did
(28:13):
do you want to kill my mother? That's heavy?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
You know, it is heavy. Gosh, you're making me, You're
making me reconsidered. Maybe maybe this wasn't such a good
idea after all.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
No, I think it should. I think everyone should see it,
because you can't have a big brush that you paint
with and go, Okay, I'm just going to black and
white my life. And these are the good people and
these are the bad people. And you know, Rumy says
out in the field behind what's right and wrong, I'll
meet you there, right Like, I think everyone should watch
(28:51):
it because we can't view each other as such cartoon characters.
We have to see the humanity in each other. And
you found the humanity and even the guy with proud
boy on his head with all those children and the
wife there trying, you know, not to inflame the situation
(29:11):
after his transphobic comment about his child, right you know,
and she's like, no, no, don't say that, because we're
not like that. People think we're like that, but we're
not like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Right, Well. The reason why I included him, remember I
told you I intentionally in the edit room, we had
a lot of choices to make of who was going
to make the cut. And the reason Billy Kannuts and
the rapper Playboy why he made the cut was because
he sings these terrible songs like f Joe Biden, F
Joe Biden. That's his whole thing, catchy little songs that
(29:45):
are all pretty like it sounds pretty hateful, but they're songs, okay.
And when he went to court for sentencing, the judge
just was reviewing the song lyrics and saying, well, you
said Nancy don't want us in her office, Well, he
didn't go into Nancy's office or and these are songs
(30:06):
that he sang after January sixth, He didn't sing them
before to get people inspired and riled up. He sang
things like, well, just kind of anti Biden anthems right now.
The judge was calling it hate speech and put him
in jail for six months in a federal penitentiary, the
same federal penitentiary where the unibomber is or what wow.
(30:27):
And so it was interesting to meet. Now criminal history
has to weigh in there. He had a criminal history
been in a jail, so they do factor that into
your equation. But if you take the Criminal Code truspassing
that he was charged with, and you take that code
and type it into the Department of Justice website and
you look at the pages and pages of people that
were charged with it. There are plenty of people that
(30:48):
did exactly what he did on January sixth, and they
got probation, house arrest, or you know, nothing at all.
And so it was interesting that he got six months
in a real lockdown situation because he sang really anti
Biden songs.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And were they able to appeal that. No.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I mean, he went and he served as time. He
said it was the worst six months of his life,
and it was really, you know, just hard, hard time,
but for free passing. So I think, you know, it
reminds me of sort of like those ACLU cases of
like going into Guantanamo Bay and saying, yeah, we know,
you're probably a terrible person who's friends with Osama bin Laden,
but you still shouldn't have been waterboarded. I'm not excusing
(31:28):
anyone who marched into the Capitol. Lindsey Graham would tell
you that everybody who walked into that building that day
is a domestic terrorist. So let's take him. Let's take
his standard, right, Okay, they're all the mess here. Now
let's go from there and say, now, what did you
actually do? Did you break anything, did you steal anything?
It was the most filmed photographed crime scene in American history,
(31:53):
so we know what everybody did. They have a million
camera angles of every person that walked in that building,
so we know what they did. So the people in
my film, they walked in, they walked out. One stolen
is a Pelosi sign. Once stole a book. But that's
the extent of the crimes they committed, and they went
to jail for that. And you shouldn't walk into the
capitol and steal a book, and you shouldn't walk into
(32:14):
the Capitol and steal Nancy Pelosi's signed. But at the
same time, you have to remember these were called misdemeanors
in the core right, And to me, a misdemeanor, I
mean I forgive. I have friends that have committed misdemeanors
and I have forgiven them for that. So the conversation
has to go somewhere from there, right, right, right, just
(32:37):
say they all committed misdemeanors, they're all domestic terrorists.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
They all deserve the same treatment, right because they were
the ones who walked in, who was with their uncle,
And I mean that you told it already about the accident,
that tragic you know, life of that girl forever changed,
and all of these people, it profoundly changed their life,
but it did not necessarily change their politics exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You nailed it. And they're probably going to be much
more involved and activated in the next election than I am.
So I mean one hundred percent than I am, but
more than my neighbors, will, you know, And so you
have to think they're really you know, they've been radicalized,
(33:23):
they've gone to jail for their beliefs. They are true believers,
and you know, I know that we talked after Bill Maher.
Bill Maher's whole point when I did the show, he said,
there's something noble about what they did because they believe
in some of their true believers. They actually went and
followed through with their political conviction. And I didn't want
(33:45):
to start a fight with him because you know, we've
been friends a long time and it's his show, and
you never you know, I don't go into shit on
his couch, you know, correct. But what I wanted to say,
you know, it's like that what you wanted to say
to him was what I wanted to say is it
was based on a lie. It's one thing to have convictions.
You can believe something in your core and go fight
(34:06):
for it. But what if everything you believe is based
on a lie. Their belief is the election was stolen, right,
But that's a lie. It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
That's a lot that's.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Been proven in Quirkys after, quirk is after, but they
will never believe that. So that's the frustrating part.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And that's why you almost need deep programmers who get
people out of scientology, who get people out of other
cults that have a real hold on the mindset of
people to the point where they start to depersonalize and
become just a member of this thing. I had a
question last week here on the show. People can leave
(34:43):
a message for a question or whatever, and this guy,
Preston so Sweet was saying that and his mother were
the best friends, and they were both, you know, grew
up liberal and progressive, and then she kind of took
a right turn a couple of years ago, and like
Fox News, you know, neppt and programmed his mother and
(35:03):
she's been gone. You know. Maga loss is something that
families have to talk about because it really happens. And
then he was saying, as a gay man that he
gets to the point where, well, can I continue doing
this when I know that my mother is voting and
living everything against who I am and what I believe,
(35:24):
you know, and it's very sad cults do that they
separate from.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Maybe the solution is we should make everybody switch their
social media feed the week before Thanksgiving, and you know,
everybody who lives on you know, their right wing ecosystem
should be switched over to a different feed, and then
we should be switched over to their feed so that
we can understand the way they think. Because I do
believe when Jason Riddle's husband said I'd never seen violence
(35:53):
on January sixth, I thought, bless his heart, he genuinely
had a totally different version of realcy that he was
living in. And his husband is in jail.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Well, and that's you know, and that's also willful blindness, right,
Willful blindness I think is going on right now, big
time all over the world where what you see and
what you're experiencing and what you're ingesting people are saying
is not happening. And that happened with Trump. That happened
(36:25):
with Trump, And I don't think that mass media has
the ability to sway millions of Americans' views anymore. I
think that people see them as biased and with their
own self interest. And you know, I don't think it
is the fourth estate anymore that it used to be
(36:47):
when we were growing up, when Walter Cronkite said something
and then the Vietnam War stopped. You know, who has
that power now to say wake up Trump? Culters Rosiodon,
Oh what are you kidding me? I have a little podcast.
I can't deal with the pressure of life. Is there
a way to come together?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I don't know. Do you think there's a way that
come together?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I think with shows like Yours and stuff like Truth
going on and people telling truth and speaking truth to
power that you know, we have to embrace each other,
these two halves of the same hole. We have to
find a way to come to mutual respect. And it's
(37:32):
very hard after all of the stuff that went down,
you know, Trump wise, very very hard. It's like, you know,
he's like Net and Yahoo for America. Trump.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know, some people better wake up because they may
be going straight diving straight into another Trump presidency, right.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Now correct, that's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Okay, Well this is really up uplifting.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Sorry, sorry I took my effects or I'm supposed to
be happier than I am.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
But I mean, it's really hard not to be sad
about America right now.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
It's hard. It's terrible. We got to get this country
some infrastructure right, especially for mental health, I think. And
maybe no more guns please. Okay, Rosie for president, that's next.
But I think that you're a great filmmaker, and I
think that you've done a lot for all of us
(38:29):
by releasing all those docs with Sheila and this one
The Insurrectionist next Door on Max also known as HBO,
and you can get it on Amazon Prime too.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I don't know if stuff like that, Yes you can.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I looked it up today. I was watching it again.
But it's great to talk to you. Tell your family,
I said, hello, I'm very sorry what happened to your dad.
I think your mom rocks the boat. And I think
you're pretty great too. And I hope that one of
my kids grows up to be just like you with
a camera somewhere telling the track.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, welcome, that's really sweet. I think my kids want
to grow up to be anything but me.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, I understand, same with mine. No interest. I'm like,
come on, we could go on tour gypsy. They're like,
I don't sing. Oh jeez. We'll be back in a
moment with questions from you are wonderful listeners right after this.
(39:43):
I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I know it was
kind of intense and different than normal, but you know what,
hasn't been a good couple of weeks for mommy, but
I'm doing my best. I'm getting through it. I hope
you enjoyed it, and I hope that you are too
doing Okay, Okay, we got some love listeners who left
a voice memo and we're going to answer them right now.
(40:04):
Hit it.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Hello, Rosie. This is Michael from outside Chicago. My three
year old son is currently obsessed with the movie Tarzan
and his favorite song is Trashing the Camp. He does
all of the sound effects to start the song and
(40:27):
all of the gibberish sounds that go with it, and
it's truly a joy watching him sing along, especially since
he's been battling a chronic illness that is not outwardly
noticeable by people who meet him, but has definitely been
(40:49):
stressful for our entire family to be dealing with and
so seeing the joy on his face when he sings
along with that song certainly something that helps us to
get through it. And so I kind of had had
two questions on that topic. One was if you had
(41:10):
any fond memories of recording that song that you wanted
to share about what that was like for you. And
the second one was if you had any advice for
parents of young children who are going through health issues
and how you cope with it and how you make
(41:33):
it through. Thank you for all you do. Been a
fan since when you were after school programming that I
would watch with my mom who since passed, and definitely
have been enjoying everything that you do. So thank you
for doing this podcast and I look forward to hearing
(41:53):
whatever you have to share. Thanks well.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Thank you Michael. What a beautiful note, not note, I
guess voice message, but beautiful sentiments. And I'm sorry about
your child's struggling with some unseen illness. Sometimes it's harder
when a child is diagnosed with something that is not
is easily indicative of hardship, you know, so people expect
(42:20):
your child maybe who's three to act accordingly, but there
could be other challenges, and it sounds like there are
that you're facing. You just got to do it day
by day, honey, That's what I have to say. It's
one day at a time, it's one step forward at
a time, and it's love, love, love, love love, you know.
And it's very very unnerving as a parent to think
(42:47):
that you need to have all the answers or you
need to know exactly what it's going to be in
life for your children, when frankly, nobody can do that.
You know, all we can do is provide security, safety, life,
and a sense of being seen. So it sounds like
you know what you're doing, Michael. It sounds like you're
(43:07):
right on it. And I'm sorry for the pain that
you and your family are in and I wish the
best to your little boy now. When we were filming
that movie, Phil Collins came in and he was the
musical director and he had written that and so you know,
after my first take, he said, Rosie, you're a little
(43:29):
underne You're not in the pocket. And I had no
idea what he meant. I was like, okay, all right,
let me try it again. Eli think you and I
don't think I ever got it right, but we recorded
it a bunch of times and we just kind of
kept adding different lines of shoe banoo, baboo, shaba shuba abamboobiah.
You know. We kept doing that over and over and over,
(43:51):
and then Phil, who is a genius, laid it all
out and it became that that beautiful song and a
lot of kids, I think relate to that little song.
And I've told this story before, but my son, who
is now twenty eight years old, when he was your
son's age, the movie opened and he was so young.
I thought, I'm not going to explain this to him.
You know that I'm a voice in this, He's not
(44:12):
going to know that. So we went to the movie
theater and about halfway through the movie, he stood up
on the chair and scream that monkey's my mama. So
you know, kids, no kids, no. Much love to you
Michael and your family, and thank you so much for
listening and for being a part of this Onward podcast.
(44:33):
We got one more now from someone named Frank. They
tell me, let's hear.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
It, Hi, Rosie, my name is Frank. And before it
get to my question, I just wanted to say thank
you so much for being yourself over the years, You're
giving myself and I'm sure many other people confidence and
joy and just wanted to say big thank you to that.
It means a lot. Well, my question for you is
(44:58):
actually related to niece Spears's new memoir that she just released.
I know, over the years when you had your talk show,
you were really really kind and you had her on
a lot of times, and I remember watching those when
I was younger, and I really really enjoyed the interactions
between you guys because it was just so cute and innocent,
(45:21):
and over the years, even when you were on the view,
I remember when she finally got divorced from Kafed and
all that, you had confetti coming out of the sky
and it was it was so funny. But my question
is would you ever interview her, you know, being you
kind of had a relationship with her from the very beginning.
(45:45):
I know she said she has no interest in doing
interviews at the moment, but if the chance ever came,
would you want to interview her? And do you plan
on reading her memoir? I just got mine and it
is a really good read, So just wanted to know
your thoughts on that. Thanks Rosie, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Bye, Thank you, Frank, thank you for that lovely message. Yes,
I have her book. I have been reading it. I
love Britney Spears. But it was many years ago, and
she was so young, you know. What I saw was
like a teenager without any real guidance. She had a
woman who was maybe eight or ten years older than her,
(46:24):
but but you know, not enough to be parental in
my opinion, And that was the woman who was her guardian,
who was always with her at the show, and who
was always you know, in a parental role. And so
I just felt so strongly that she needed protection, you know,
and tried to support her in any way that I could.
(46:45):
Would I do an interview now if she wanted to,
I would do whatever she wanted. I would love to
go have a conversation with her. I would love to
have dinner with her. I would love to do it
privately or if she chose publicly. But I think the
book is is so far a beautiful and honest reflection
of a terrible, terrible time in her life, and I
(47:07):
think she needs compassion and understanding. And I love her,
I always have, I always will. Now having said that,
I haven't seen her or spoken to her since for
twenty three years, maybe even more. I have nothing but
love and respect for her, nothing and I can't wait
to finish the book. This book is Britney Spears, and
(47:28):
it's what she wants to say, and I'm here for it.
I'm totally here for it. Well, thank you, Frank and
thank you Michael, both of you for calling in and listen.
Next week's guest is a woman who I met on TikTok,
Alison Joseph. She's someone I started talking to online. Her
(47:50):
name on the TikTok is jew in the city, and
she is very articulate about representation of Jewish people in
the media, in the world. And you know, we converse
a lot through the DMS, and I said, hey, what
do you think. So it's a conversation that I think
(48:12):
we all need to have, especially before we join our
families on the holiday. You know, it's not a history
lesson at all. It's a conversation about compassion, love and humanity.
That's next week, Alison Joseph, right here on onward with me,
Rosie O'Donnell, Peace, everyone, peace and onward. What other choice
(48:33):
do we have
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