January 30, 2024 • 33 mins
After listening to Rosie interview Lyle Menendez in prison; many of our listeners reacted in such a visceral and intellectual way, we wanted to dedicate a full episode to some of your voice memos.Not an easy subject for anyone; no matter what you believe happened, Rosie felt it important to share your reactions and respond with her own.Please note:Abuse is discussed in this episode - nothing graphically, but it could be traumatic.Share your voice memos with any questions or comments for Rosie to: OnwardRosie@gmail.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, welcome to Onward with Me, Rosie O'Donnell. That's two ends,
two l's. As I mentioned, many listeners wrote in such thoughtful,
beautiful and heartbreaking ways about my conversation with Lyle Menendez.
You know, they were so moving we thought we just
put them all together in this one podcast. To those
(00:34):
we didn't share who spoke so honestly about their childhood traumas,
please know I listened to every one of them. I'm
sending out so much love and support to you. Please
continue to do all that you are doing to heal yourselves,
and I promised to do the same. Okay, everybody here
we go. Okay, so these are all of your comments
(01:08):
and thoughts about the Lyle Menendez episode. All right, Andrew
take it away.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hi Rosie, good morning. My name is Andrew, and I'm
in East Long Island. When I first saw your TikTok
that you are going to have one of the Menendez
brothers on your podcast, I immediately heard the tape in
(01:34):
my head from childhood Menandez brothers. You don't kill your parents,
you run away with the circus like a normal kid. Well,
I'm lucky for me. I went in with an open
mind or at least curious, and my goodness, did I
come out on the other side of that. So I
just wanted to say a quick thank you to you
(01:56):
and acknowledge that I'm old enough to say times were
different then, so.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
True, so true, Andrew, times were different. And you know,
as a society, we couldn't even conceive of the fact
that sometimes fathers sexually abuse their sons, their own sons.
And you know, it's a society where somehow we understand
and accept that women are sexually abused all the time
(02:23):
and that boys and men somehow are not. But that's
not the facts. And you know, I'm glad that you
were able to listen to his story. You know, thirty
four years he's been in jail. It's hard to believe.
And Lord knows, we did a disservice as a nation
(02:45):
by believing the lies and all of the the story
and the lure against them. I just hope that they're
finally going to be resentenced or or freed or pardoned,
because they've served enough for their crimes, and you know,
(03:06):
they've been in prison since they were little boys, and
they never really have known freedom yet. So I'm hoping
that pretty soon that they will be able to walk free,
and I think that would be you know, justice served. Okay, Jackie,
hit it jack.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Hi, Rosie, It's Jackie Gallagher from New Brunswick, Canada. I
want to thank you for your wonderful podcasts and for
the powerful interview with Lyle Menendez. I'm a few months
older than you, Rosie, and I recall the trial vividly,
but unlike you, I truly believe Lyle and Eric's tears
(03:45):
were fake. While on the stand, I couldn't conceive of
a father raping his own sons, and I did not
see them as victims. Boy, with humility and pangs of conscience,
I no longer feel that way. Lyle and Eric were
living a nightmare and Lyle needed desperately to protect his
younger brother. They were victims stopping their abusers, albeit in
(04:10):
a violent way, but in Lyle's mind, the only way.
Keep us updated, Rosie, and thank you again, Love you.
That's so sweet, Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
And isn't it amazing how we can reframe something in
our mind and and change the entire image and the
whole you know, the way that we were taught what
(04:33):
we were fed by the news media about them, and
you know, the truth was so far from what was adjudicated,
you know, and the fact that they didn't even get
to have a defense, you know, in their in their
second trial when they were given a life sentence without
the possibility of parole. So I'm really happy too that
(04:57):
that I saw that wonderful documentary and it spurred me
on to having contact with him and getting to know
him and getting to speak with him and on his
behalf on some TV interviews, and you know, that's all
we can do. And now let's hope that the judicial
system will right the wrong. You know, that's all that's
(05:20):
left for us to do.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Thank you again. Okay, who do we got next? Hit it?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Hi?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Rosie. I felt that I wanted to send a comment
about the Lyle Menendez episode, which I thought was so
so good. You did such a great job. This isn't
my usual thing that I leave voice comments or anything
(05:47):
like that, but I have followed you forever and ever.
I'm almost sixty nine years old, so really we go
way back. So what I was thinking about the episode
was with Lyle that no matter what he was going
to do in his life, it was going to be
(06:10):
major and that even in prison, he is doing things
that could change the fabric of all prisons, just putting
murals and gardens and instilling confidence and giving prisoners more
(06:32):
of a sense of self. It just feels to me
that he was destined to make some kind of change
in the world that was big. I'd like to look
at people's lives and look at the overall fabric of
their lives, Like I was thinking about people that have
(06:52):
sudden changes in their life, like Christopher Reeves was Superman,
but then he also was a paraplegic.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Where their lives are almost like two lives in one,
and Lyle's life clearly was like two lives, maybe even
three lives in one.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
But that he was still destined to do something great.
And I really love that he continued his education. I
thought that was really just said so much about him.
I guess that's it. I just want to say that.
(07:33):
I just feel like, I guess that's it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's okay. I like the ending. I guess that's it. Yeah, Okay,
thank you for that, really, and I agree with you.
I have to say, the record that Lyle Menendez has
in prison is you know, impeccable what he's done, like
no other prisoner has done is much in the California
prison system as he has in the last thirty four years,
(08:04):
and it's really remarkable. And when I went to the
prison and got to meet him, and I saw him
giving a presentation on the renovation project that he's doing
in the prison that he's in San Diego, modeled after
the Norwegian program and really really profound work. When I
(08:30):
saw him presenting to you know, administrators and legislators and
prison heads of prison and I was like, this guy
could be running a fortune five hundred company. He's so articulate,
he's so smart, he's so well versed. He's you know,
he's curious. He's innately curious, and he doesn't like to
(08:51):
waste time. He's always doing something. He's always got another idea.
He's always you know, he's a remarkable guy. He really is.
And I'm glad that, you know, he got to present
who he is to people. And I'm so happy that
people walked away seeing him for really who he is,
(09:12):
not who he was as a scared, sexually abused young
boy trying to protect his younger brother, you know, and
some people, you know, I have friends who say to me,
he killed his parents. I'm like, I know, I know,
I know, I know. It's hard for some people, you know,
to even get anywhere near that subject without, you know,
(09:36):
shutting down all the doors and windows and refusing to
look outside.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
But thank you, thank you all for this. And who
do we have next? Shane? Is that Shane?
Speaker 7 (09:47):
Hey? Rosie Shane here based in weho just listen to
the episode what Lyle Menendez? And I am really kind
of overwhelmed by the different feelings that are going on
right now. I am, of course, like so many people,
(10:11):
was brought up with the story that the media told
in the nineties and how both Lyle and Eric were
made out to be these cold blooded, soulless automatons who
wanted only wealth and were eliminated their parents to get it.
(10:33):
And looking back now and finding out this new evidence
and all the sort of re examination that we're doing
as a society of sexual abuse, childhood sexual abuse in particular,
I think is a really really powerful thing, and I
(10:59):
cannot help but be both moved and inspired and want
to continue to advocate for people who have experienced similar things,
whether it's victims of incest, of non familial sexual abuse.
(11:27):
You know, it's just a very powerful episode, and your
empathy and your generosity with Lyle really shown through. I
think it was a very powerful conversation. Thank you for
making the room and taking the time to have it,
(11:47):
and for doing it with such grace and humility as
you have always done all things. I've admired you for
many years and will continue to for many more. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Oh, thank you, Shane. So beautiful. Yeah, I think it
really moved a lot of people. I really think a
lot of us were sold a bill of goods in
the nineties about who these young boys were and what
the story really was about. And you know, sadly, it's
a story of you know, sadistic, abusive, pedophile father and
(12:27):
an equally unwell mother and the tragedy that was their
childhood and ended up on the night that they killed
their parents. And you know, it's a story of our times,
of our life. It's one of the defining you know,
trials of our lifetime, without a doubt. And to think
(12:50):
that's thirty four years later and they're still in there,
and there's been so much done on the abusive children
and the abuse of young boys, and I really I'm
really grateful that I got to know him and I
have the opportunity to, you know, introduce him to you
(13:11):
in a way that will hopefully change a mind or two.
And it sounds like it did. Up next, Margaret, what's
going on?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
Margaret?
Speaker 8 (13:20):
Hey Rosie, it's Margaret. I'm sixty one and I just
finished listening to your interview with Lyle Menendez. I'm a survivor.
I guess is a terminology of childhood abuse by my father, physical, sexual, mental, emotional.
(13:49):
He was an overbearing asshole, sexually abused me and both
of my sisters. I didn't have an I still don't
have clear memories of it happening to me, mostly feelings.
What my bones know that book, Yeah, what my bones know.
Speaker 7 (14:13):
I have a.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
History of.
Speaker 8 (14:17):
Alcoholism, drug abuse, multiple suicide attempts, no friends, don't trust
my family other than my sister, one of my sisters.
What touched me most about the interview with Lyle was
(14:41):
being believed I disassociated my abuse. Have as I said,
mostly feelings, mostly inklings about what happened to me. And
then as an adult in the military, I was raped
by two different individuals, different military My brothers in arms,
(15:05):
one of whom was a supervisor type, the other.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Equal rank.
Speaker 8 (15:12):
But I guess I was trained as an adult as
a child rather to not report, and so I didn't report,
and I stuffed those experiences down, told myself that they
were just unpleasant sexual experiences, and then I went out
(15:33):
upon my business. And all my sexual experiences have been
horrible in the sense that I've always been drunk or stoned,
and I've given myself away to strangers, just acting out.
But being believed, Yeah, being believed Finally, as an adult
(15:57):
late fifties, late fifties, after so many different diagnoses, so
many different psychle psychle whatever drugs that the psychologists and
the psychiatrists give you, I was finally somebody asked me
were you Were you abused as a child, were you
(16:19):
sexually abused? And we started talking about it and talked
about disassociation and this and that, and being believed by her,
I cling to my relationship with her, I speak to
her monthly, being believed by the military. Ultimately, when I
(16:48):
reported the two rapes, not for punitive purposes, but for
acknowledgment of my disability, because I am disabled. I suffer
from PTSD and anxiety and depression and the like. And
I have for you know, since I was as obviously
(17:09):
as a child that abuse, but then my early twenties,
early to mid twenties, with the two rapes by my
brothers in arms, being believed that that touched me, I followed,
Excuse me, I didn't. I didn't follow the Menendez case.
I was aware of it obviously as a sixty one
(17:31):
year old, but I didn't follow it. Maybe maybe there's
a reason, Maybe maybe my own experiences that's the reason.
But belief, belief, Rosie's that's so important.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well, Margaret, that was beautiful. Thank you for sharing all that.
It couldn't have been easy to do, but it's amazing. Yeah,
how powerful it is to have someone believe you. It's
freezy really from the constant questions in your mind. Did
I make this up? Surely I made this up? Right,
Surely I made this up? Because nobody wants that to
(18:08):
be true. That's a code of shame, you know, you
don't want to wear. And even though it's not your shame,
as the anti Lennox song goes, take this twisted code
of shame. It never did belong to me, right, And
I'm glad that you know listening to Lyle and hearing
(18:30):
us talk about surviving trauma, you know, and how to
make the best out of your life. You know. I
wish the best for you, Margaret, I really do, and
I'll be thinking about you. You take care of yourself.
Stick around. We have more of your comments after this.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
Hi, Rosie.
Speaker 10 (19:10):
My name is Bob Merrick, and I am a longtime listener,
longtime fan, first time caller, and I could probably spend
an hour gushing about how much I love you, and
how important you are to me and have been to me,
and all the ways you have inspired and influenced my life.
(19:30):
But we can do that another day for right now.
I just wanted to respond to your request about your
Lyle Menendez interview, and I wasn't actually going to say
anything until you asked about it. But the thing I
thought was most interesting was I had a very almost
physical reaction to not wanting to listen to the episode
(19:55):
the going into it. I just I never really got
into the case. I never heard a lot of details,
but growing up at the time, I knew the headlines
and I knew enough to know I didn't want to
know anymore, and I just thought what was really interesting
was my.
Speaker 9 (20:18):
My want to not want to listen to it.
Speaker 10 (20:21):
But when I was wondering why that was, it was like,
I didn't want you to humanize him.
Speaker 9 (20:28):
I didn't want you to change my opinion.
Speaker 10 (20:32):
And I thought that was really interesting when I couldn't
figure out why I had an opinion in the first place,
if I've never.
Speaker 9 (20:41):
Paid any attention in any detail to the case.
Speaker 10 (20:44):
So all that being said, out of my love for
you and my respect for you and all of the
things I have learned.
Speaker 9 (20:52):
From you over the years listening to Rosie Radio and
your talk show, I.
Speaker 10 (20:57):
Gave it a listen, and I'm really glad that I did,
because more than anything, it opened my mind and it
opened my heart, and I was very impressed with what
he's done with his time. And I don't know, it's
always nice to be surprised, and to anything that can
(21:21):
remind us of our humanity, I think is always a
beautiful thing. So as always, I thank you for that,
and I look forward to following his journey a little
bit closer and seeing where it ends up and hoping
that good things come to him.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
So thank you, Rosie. As always, You're amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Thank you, Bob. So sweet. Isn't it interesting how sometimes
you know, we turn away from that which is like
a little too hot for you to touch yet, you know,
I mean memories and things that you hold locked away
way so that your psyche doesn't shatter. You know, as
we get older and as we have more therapy and
(22:05):
help and understanding, and you know, time the doors kind
of open and you can go, you know, turn the
light on in that very dark room and empty everything out,
you know. And you know, I'm glad that that lyle
was able to move you and that you didn't, you know,
instinctively just ignore it. You know, you were brave enough
(22:30):
to go to go toward it and to be led.
And so you know that's really really positive stuff. And
thank you so much, Bob. Thank you, Laurel.
Speaker 11 (22:45):
Here you go, Laurel, Hello Rosie. My name is Laurel
and I live in the Vancouver area of Canada. I too,
grew up as a motherless daughter. My mom died when
I was two years old. My father was an alcoholic,
and I, like a lot of adult children, struggled with
many of the same issues that are spoken about by
(23:05):
people in recovery. I also was sexually abused, and I
have spent the last forty years in recovery with alan
On and have had lots of therapy. I am in
a good place these days, even though I lost my
husband three years ago and my dog a year later.
I wanted to talk about Lyle Menendez's interview. I think
(23:26):
about why some of us come out the other side okay,
and why some people go in a different direction and
have different outcomes. I believe most of the prisoners, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.
Are all once abused children from various backgrounds, some different circumstances,
but ultimately wounded deeply. I don't know what the solution
(23:49):
is or if there's hope for society. Because we have
to keep people safe, we need prisons to do that.
How do we bring people around to the idea that
rehabilitation is better than punishment. Who decides which person can
be healed and who is just evil? There's no easy answer.
(24:10):
It was so great to hear how Lyle and Eric
have recovered and are now helping others.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
I love the interview.
Speaker 11 (24:17):
I'm so sad they have spent most of their lives incarcerated.
I do hope they get their freedom for time served.
It's a great topic. Rosie. Thank you again. I will
continue to follow your career. You're a joy to listen
to and watch. Oh and as a big fan, yes,
I do have the Rosie doll in the box and
(24:39):
all your magazines. Have a great day, Rosie, take care well.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Thank you, Laurel, thank you so much. Yeah, what a
beautiful message you left. It's really hard to know right
what we do. But I agree with you that most
of the prisoners in this country are abused kids who
never got an help. And you know, the forster care
system is a mess. And you know children in affluent
(25:07):
homes get abused, and you know no one ever shows
up and knocks on their door to check on you know,
the Menendez brothers in Beverly Hills. You know, even though
many people testifight at the trial, seeing the father work
them till they passed out on the tennis court, and
his abuse was evident to people in their lives, not
(25:29):
the sexual part, but all of the other type of
mental abuse and and never being good enough, never never
being good enough for their father. But what do we do?
And you know, we have to have a better system
than we have right now, where mentally ill people get
(25:52):
sentenced and housed and not given rehab, not given any
way to better themselves in prison. It's really a horrible
thing and it needs to you know, we look at
other countries and how they do it, and we have
a lot to learn the United States of America and
(26:13):
this you know prison complex right this million dollar prison
complex that we have going for us here. We have
a public defender, next, a public defender. We'll be back
with more of your comments after this.
Speaker 12 (26:50):
Hi, I work in public defense, so I represent people
accused of crime. I listened to the episode, the thoughtful
episode he did with Lyle. I really appreciated hearing it
and the perspectives and the vulnerability that everyone shared. I'm
(27:10):
grateful to Rosie for putting that out there and getting
people to think about what happened in a different way.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
One thing I wanted to bring up, and I.
Speaker 12 (27:23):
Hope your show finds a way to spotlight and to
get your listeners to think about, is that most people
who commit crimes are not famous, they're not rich, they're
not well educated at Princeton, and they also have horrific
reasons that they do what they do. Our jails and
our prisons are not filled with horrible people who are
(27:46):
psychopaths most of the time. There are rare exceptions, but
most people who make the worst mistake of their lives
have done so because of horrible circumstances that have brought
them to the point in their life. Sometimes it's abuse,
sometimes it's addiction. Sometimes it's lack of resources or lack
of finances, or.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Lack of opportunity or being young.
Speaker 12 (28:10):
And but I just hope that your listeners realize that
most people do not deserve to be judged by the
worst mistake of their lives, and that we should have compassion, Yes,
absolutely for Lyle and people like him who are victims
of abuse, but also have compassion for the millions and
(28:35):
millions of people that we have put behind bars, that
we do not think about, that you do not care about,
that you do not pay attention to, and we dehumanize and.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
Treat in the worst way.
Speaker 12 (28:46):
We absolutely should be considering parole and allowing for rehabilitation,
and that people change and grow, and that we want
them to rehabilitate themselves and become productive members of society
and move past the worst thing they've ever done in
their life.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So true, So true. You know, you know, jails are
full of people with addictions, and you know what the
addiction industry is, you know, the recovery programs that you know,
they're expensive and they get families and they tell them
this is how you treat your addict family member, and
(29:26):
whether or not you can do that, and you know,
the jails are full of the holes in all the
social programs that no longer exist or are just so
badly staffed, you know, and mental health in America, I mean,
my god, we don't have enough help for everyone's it's
(29:49):
a tragedy. Yet we seem to be able to find
millions and millions and millions of dollars for other wars
and other nations, and that, frankly, I don't understand. I
really don't, But yes, I agree with you. Most of
the people in prison are not rich and didn't go
to Princeton. You're totally right. And everyone deserves to be
(30:11):
treated as an equal part of society and a human being,
and you know, everyone deserves to feel a part of society.
And yeah, yeah, good points. Thank you very much for
leaving that message our last one today. Evo EVO, what
a cool name.
Speaker 13 (30:33):
Hi, Rosie, my name is Evo, and I'm from San Jose, California,
right outside of the San Francisco and the Bay area.
And I just, oh, excuse me. I just finished listening
to the Lie Old men Endez podcast and that you
have on your Onwards show. And oh, Rosie, that's amazing,
(30:57):
that's so amazing that you're doing this. Yes, I do
believe that you should put both brothers on or I
don't know, you know, talk more about it. You know,
this is this destroys lives and you really would be
helping a lot. It's wonderful what you're doing. I hope
(31:20):
you do it. I hope you're protected when you do,
and I hope that the truth comes to light in
a way that everyone can understand it. Thank you, Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you, Evo. Beautiful sentiment. I love your big heart
getting all choked up. Yeah, they deserve to be free.
They've served enough time, and we can write this wrong.
We can, and we just need some brave people at
the DA's office and to get a resentencing going, because
(31:56):
Lord knows, thirty four years is enough time, especially for
boys who were so brutalized as they were. All Right,
we'll be back with more after this. Thank you to
(32:21):
each and every one of you who left a voice memo.
With all that's going on, we need to listen, love
and help each other in any way possible. Sometimes, for me,
in the quietest moments, it's as simple as befriending a squirrel.
I know some of you think that's crazy. Sorry not sorry.
Next week, my guest is Derek Downey Junior, aka a
(32:43):
Squirrel's best Friend. Fighting depression like so many of us do,
Derek found solace and connecting with his neighborhood squirrels and
sharing these videos on social media. Now he has over
a million TikTok followers. Derek uses this time with his
favorite squirrel, Max Vaccine, as a way to share thoughts
on compassion, mindfulness, humanity, and coexisting with nature. He is
(33:07):
a lovely, lovely man, Derek Downey Junior. That's next week,
Gone onward until then, Peace out, everybody,
Well, welcome to Onward with Me, Rosie O'Donnell. That's two ends,
two l's. As I mentioned, many listeners wrote in such thoughtful,
beautiful and heartbreaking ways about my conversation with Lyle Menendez.
You know, they were so moving we thought we just
put them all together in this one podcast. To those
(00:34):
we didn't share who spoke so honestly about their childhood traumas,
please know I listened to every one of them. I'm
sending out so much love and support to you. Please
continue to do all that you are doing to heal yourselves,
and I promised to do the same. Okay, everybody here
we go. Okay, so these are all of your comments
(01:08):
and thoughts about the Lyle Menendez episode. All right, Andrew
take it away.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hi Rosie, good morning. My name is Andrew, and I'm
in East Long Island. When I first saw your TikTok
that you are going to have one of the Menendez
brothers on your podcast, I immediately heard the tape in
(01:34):
my head from childhood Menandez brothers. You don't kill your parents,
you run away with the circus like a normal kid. Well,
I'm lucky for me. I went in with an open
mind or at least curious, and my goodness, did I
come out on the other side of that. So I
just wanted to say a quick thank you to you
(01:56):
and acknowledge that I'm old enough to say times were
different then, so.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
True, so true, Andrew, times were different. And you know,
as a society, we couldn't even conceive of the fact
that sometimes fathers sexually abuse their sons, their own sons.
And you know, it's a society where somehow we understand
and accept that women are sexually abused all the time
(02:23):
and that boys and men somehow are not. But that's
not the facts. And you know, I'm glad that you
were able to listen to his story. You know, thirty
four years he's been in jail. It's hard to believe.
And Lord knows, we did a disservice as a nation
(02:45):
by believing the lies and all of the the story
and the lure against them. I just hope that they're
finally going to be resentenced or or freed or pardoned,
because they've served enough for their crimes, and you know,
(03:06):
they've been in prison since they were little boys, and
they never really have known freedom yet. So I'm hoping
that pretty soon that they will be able to walk free,
and I think that would be you know, justice served. Okay, Jackie,
hit it jack.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Hi, Rosie, It's Jackie Gallagher from New Brunswick, Canada. I
want to thank you for your wonderful podcasts and for
the powerful interview with Lyle Menendez. I'm a few months
older than you, Rosie, and I recall the trial vividly,
but unlike you, I truly believe Lyle and Eric's tears
(03:45):
were fake. While on the stand, I couldn't conceive of
a father raping his own sons, and I did not
see them as victims. Boy, with humility and pangs of conscience,
I no longer feel that way. Lyle and Eric were
living a nightmare and Lyle needed desperately to protect his
younger brother. They were victims stopping their abusers, albeit in
(04:10):
a violent way, but in Lyle's mind, the only way.
Keep us updated, Rosie, and thank you again, Love you.
That's so sweet, Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
And isn't it amazing how we can reframe something in
our mind and and change the entire image and the
whole you know, the way that we were taught what
(04:33):
we were fed by the news media about them, and
you know, the truth was so far from what was adjudicated,
you know, and the fact that they didn't even get
to have a defense, you know, in their in their
second trial when they were given a life sentence without
the possibility of parole. So I'm really happy too that
(04:57):
that I saw that wonderful documentary and it spurred me
on to having contact with him and getting to know
him and getting to speak with him and on his
behalf on some TV interviews, and you know, that's all
we can do. And now let's hope that the judicial
system will right the wrong. You know, that's all that's
(05:20):
left for us to do.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Thank you again. Okay, who do we got next? Hit it?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Hi?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Rosie. I felt that I wanted to send a comment
about the Lyle Menendez episode, which I thought was so
so good. You did such a great job. This isn't
my usual thing that I leave voice comments or anything
(05:47):
like that, but I have followed you forever and ever.
I'm almost sixty nine years old, so really we go
way back. So what I was thinking about the episode
was with Lyle that no matter what he was going
to do in his life, it was going to be
(06:10):
major and that even in prison, he is doing things
that could change the fabric of all prisons, just putting
murals and gardens and instilling confidence and giving prisoners more
(06:32):
of a sense of self. It just feels to me
that he was destined to make some kind of change
in the world that was big. I'd like to look
at people's lives and look at the overall fabric of
their lives, Like I was thinking about people that have
(06:52):
sudden changes in their life, like Christopher Reeves was Superman,
but then he also was a paraplegic.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Where their lives are almost like two lives in one,
and Lyle's life clearly was like two lives, maybe even
three lives in one.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
But that he was still destined to do something great.
And I really love that he continued his education. I
thought that was really just said so much about him.
I guess that's it. I just want to say that.
(07:33):
I just feel like, I guess that's it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's okay. I like the ending. I guess that's it. Yeah, Okay,
thank you for that, really, and I agree with you.
I have to say, the record that Lyle Menendez has
in prison is you know, impeccable what he's done, like
no other prisoner has done is much in the California
prison system as he has in the last thirty four years,
(08:04):
and it's really remarkable. And when I went to the
prison and got to meet him, and I saw him
giving a presentation on the renovation project that he's doing
in the prison that he's in San Diego, modeled after
the Norwegian program and really really profound work. When I
(08:30):
saw him presenting to you know, administrators and legislators and
prison heads of prison and I was like, this guy
could be running a fortune five hundred company. He's so articulate,
he's so smart, he's so well versed. He's you know,
he's curious. He's innately curious, and he doesn't like to
(08:51):
waste time. He's always doing something. He's always got another idea.
He's always you know, he's a remarkable guy. He really is.
And I'm glad that, you know, he got to present
who he is to people. And I'm so happy that
people walked away seeing him for really who he is,
(09:12):
not who he was as a scared, sexually abused young
boy trying to protect his younger brother, you know, and
some people, you know, I have friends who say to me,
he killed his parents. I'm like, I know, I know,
I know, I know. It's hard for some people, you know,
to even get anywhere near that subject without, you know,
(09:36):
shutting down all the doors and windows and refusing to
look outside.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
But thank you, thank you all for this. And who
do we have next? Shane? Is that Shane?
Speaker 7 (09:47):
Hey? Rosie Shane here based in weho just listen to
the episode what Lyle Menendez? And I am really kind
of overwhelmed by the different feelings that are going on
right now. I am, of course, like so many people,
(10:11):
was brought up with the story that the media told
in the nineties and how both Lyle and Eric were
made out to be these cold blooded, soulless automatons who
wanted only wealth and were eliminated their parents to get it.
(10:33):
And looking back now and finding out this new evidence
and all the sort of re examination that we're doing
as a society of sexual abuse, childhood sexual abuse in particular,
I think is a really really powerful thing, and I
(10:59):
cannot help but be both moved and inspired and want
to continue to advocate for people who have experienced similar things,
whether it's victims of incest, of non familial sexual abuse.
(11:27):
You know, it's just a very powerful episode, and your
empathy and your generosity with Lyle really shown through. I
think it was a very powerful conversation. Thank you for
making the room and taking the time to have it,
(11:47):
and for doing it with such grace and humility as
you have always done all things. I've admired you for
many years and will continue to for many more. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Oh, thank you, Shane. So beautiful. Yeah, I think it
really moved a lot of people. I really think a
lot of us were sold a bill of goods in
the nineties about who these young boys were and what
the story really was about. And you know, sadly, it's
a story of you know, sadistic, abusive, pedophile father and
(12:27):
an equally unwell mother and the tragedy that was their
childhood and ended up on the night that they killed
their parents. And you know, it's a story of our times,
of our life. It's one of the defining you know,
trials of our lifetime, without a doubt. And to think
(12:50):
that's thirty four years later and they're still in there,
and there's been so much done on the abusive children
and the abuse of young boys, and I really I'm
really grateful that I got to know him and I
have the opportunity to, you know, introduce him to you
(13:11):
in a way that will hopefully change a mind or two.
And it sounds like it did. Up next, Margaret, what's
going on?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
Margaret?
Speaker 8 (13:20):
Hey Rosie, it's Margaret. I'm sixty one and I just
finished listening to your interview with Lyle Menendez. I'm a survivor.
I guess is a terminology of childhood abuse by my father, physical, sexual, mental, emotional.
(13:49):
He was an overbearing asshole, sexually abused me and both
of my sisters. I didn't have an I still don't
have clear memories of it happening to me, mostly feelings.
What my bones know that book, Yeah, what my bones know.
Speaker 7 (14:13):
I have a.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
History of.
Speaker 8 (14:17):
Alcoholism, drug abuse, multiple suicide attempts, no friends, don't trust
my family other than my sister, one of my sisters.
What touched me most about the interview with Lyle was
(14:41):
being believed I disassociated my abuse. Have as I said,
mostly feelings, mostly inklings about what happened to me. And
then as an adult in the military, I was raped
by two different individuals, different military My brothers in arms,
(15:05):
one of whom was a supervisor type, the other.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Equal rank.
Speaker 8 (15:12):
But I guess I was trained as an adult as
a child rather to not report, and so I didn't report,
and I stuffed those experiences down, told myself that they
were just unpleasant sexual experiences, and then I went out
(15:33):
upon my business. And all my sexual experiences have been
horrible in the sense that I've always been drunk or stoned,
and I've given myself away to strangers, just acting out.
But being believed, Yeah, being believed Finally, as an adult
(15:57):
late fifties, late fifties, after so many different diagnoses, so
many different psychle psychle whatever drugs that the psychologists and
the psychiatrists give you, I was finally somebody asked me
were you Were you abused as a child, were you
(16:19):
sexually abused? And we started talking about it and talked
about disassociation and this and that, and being believed by her,
I cling to my relationship with her, I speak to
her monthly, being believed by the military. Ultimately, when I
(16:48):
reported the two rapes, not for punitive purposes, but for
acknowledgment of my disability, because I am disabled. I suffer
from PTSD and anxiety and depression and the like. And
I have for you know, since I was as obviously
(17:09):
as a child that abuse, but then my early twenties,
early to mid twenties, with the two rapes by my
brothers in arms, being believed that that touched me, I followed,
Excuse me, I didn't. I didn't follow the Menendez case.
I was aware of it obviously as a sixty one
(17:31):
year old, but I didn't follow it. Maybe maybe there's
a reason, Maybe maybe my own experiences that's the reason.
But belief, belief, Rosie's that's so important.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well, Margaret, that was beautiful. Thank you for sharing all that.
It couldn't have been easy to do, but it's amazing. Yeah,
how powerful it is to have someone believe you. It's
freezy really from the constant questions in your mind. Did
I make this up? Surely I made this up? Right,
Surely I made this up? Because nobody wants that to
(18:08):
be true. That's a code of shame, you know, you
don't want to wear. And even though it's not your shame,
as the anti Lennox song goes, take this twisted code
of shame. It never did belong to me, right, And
I'm glad that you know listening to Lyle and hearing
(18:30):
us talk about surviving trauma, you know, and how to
make the best out of your life. You know. I
wish the best for you, Margaret, I really do, and
I'll be thinking about you. You take care of yourself.
Stick around. We have more of your comments after this.
Speaker 9 (19:09):
Hi, Rosie.
Speaker 10 (19:10):
My name is Bob Merrick, and I am a longtime listener,
longtime fan, first time caller, and I could probably spend
an hour gushing about how much I love you, and
how important you are to me and have been to me,
and all the ways you have inspired and influenced my life.
(19:30):
But we can do that another day for right now.
I just wanted to respond to your request about your
Lyle Menendez interview, and I wasn't actually going to say
anything until you asked about it. But the thing I
thought was most interesting was I had a very almost
physical reaction to not wanting to listen to the episode
(19:55):
the going into it. I just I never really got
into the case. I never heard a lot of details,
but growing up at the time, I knew the headlines
and I knew enough to know I didn't want to
know anymore, and I just thought what was really interesting
was my.
Speaker 9 (20:18):
My want to not want to listen to it.
Speaker 10 (20:21):
But when I was wondering why that was, it was like,
I didn't want you to humanize him.
Speaker 9 (20:28):
I didn't want you to change my opinion.
Speaker 10 (20:32):
And I thought that was really interesting when I couldn't
figure out why I had an opinion in the first place,
if I've never.
Speaker 9 (20:41):
Paid any attention in any detail to the case.
Speaker 10 (20:44):
So all that being said, out of my love for
you and my respect for you and all of the
things I have learned.
Speaker 9 (20:52):
From you over the years listening to Rosie Radio and
your talk show, I.
Speaker 10 (20:57):
Gave it a listen, and I'm really glad that I did,
because more than anything, it opened my mind and it
opened my heart, and I was very impressed with what
he's done with his time. And I don't know, it's
always nice to be surprised, and to anything that can
(21:21):
remind us of our humanity, I think is always a
beautiful thing. So as always, I thank you for that,
and I look forward to following his journey a little
bit closer and seeing where it ends up and hoping
that good things come to him.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
So thank you, Rosie. As always, You're amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Thank you, Bob. So sweet. Isn't it interesting how sometimes
you know, we turn away from that which is like
a little too hot for you to touch yet, you know,
I mean memories and things that you hold locked away
way so that your psyche doesn't shatter. You know, as
we get older and as we have more therapy and
(22:05):
help and understanding, and you know, time the doors kind
of open and you can go, you know, turn the
light on in that very dark room and empty everything out,
you know. And you know, I'm glad that that lyle
was able to move you and that you didn't, you know,
instinctively just ignore it. You know, you were brave enough
(22:30):
to go to go toward it and to be led.
And so you know that's really really positive stuff. And
thank you so much, Bob. Thank you, Laurel.
Speaker 11 (22:45):
Here you go, Laurel, Hello Rosie. My name is Laurel
and I live in the Vancouver area of Canada. I too,
grew up as a motherless daughter. My mom died when
I was two years old. My father was an alcoholic,
and I, like a lot of adult children, struggled with
many of the same issues that are spoken about by
(23:05):
people in recovery. I also was sexually abused, and I
have spent the last forty years in recovery with alan
On and have had lots of therapy. I am in
a good place these days, even though I lost my
husband three years ago and my dog a year later.
I wanted to talk about Lyle Menendez's interview. I think
(23:26):
about why some of us come out the other side okay,
and why some people go in a different direction and
have different outcomes. I believe most of the prisoners, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.
Are all once abused children from various backgrounds, some different circumstances,
but ultimately wounded deeply. I don't know what the solution
(23:49):
is or if there's hope for society. Because we have
to keep people safe, we need prisons to do that.
How do we bring people around to the idea that
rehabilitation is better than punishment. Who decides which person can
be healed and who is just evil? There's no easy answer.
(24:10):
It was so great to hear how Lyle and Eric
have recovered and are now helping others.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
I love the interview.
Speaker 11 (24:17):
I'm so sad they have spent most of their lives incarcerated.
I do hope they get their freedom for time served.
It's a great topic. Rosie. Thank you again. I will
continue to follow your career. You're a joy to listen
to and watch. Oh and as a big fan, yes,
I do have the Rosie doll in the box and
(24:39):
all your magazines. Have a great day, Rosie, take care well.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Thank you, Laurel, thank you so much. Yeah, what a
beautiful message you left. It's really hard to know right
what we do. But I agree with you that most
of the prisoners in this country are abused kids who
never got an help. And you know, the forster care
system is a mess. And you know children in affluent
(25:07):
homes get abused, and you know no one ever shows
up and knocks on their door to check on you know,
the Menendez brothers in Beverly Hills. You know, even though
many people testifight at the trial, seeing the father work
them till they passed out on the tennis court, and
his abuse was evident to people in their lives, not
(25:29):
the sexual part, but all of the other type of
mental abuse and and never being good enough, never never
being good enough for their father. But what do we do?
And you know, we have to have a better system
than we have right now, where mentally ill people get
(25:52):
sentenced and housed and not given rehab, not given any
way to better themselves in prison. It's really a horrible
thing and it needs to you know, we look at
other countries and how they do it, and we have
a lot to learn the United States of America and
(26:13):
this you know prison complex right this million dollar prison
complex that we have going for us here. We have
a public defender, next, a public defender. We'll be back
with more of your comments after this.
Speaker 12 (26:50):
Hi, I work in public defense, so I represent people
accused of crime. I listened to the episode, the thoughtful
episode he did with Lyle. I really appreciated hearing it
and the perspectives and the vulnerability that everyone shared. I'm
(27:10):
grateful to Rosie for putting that out there and getting
people to think about what happened in a different way.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
One thing I wanted to bring up, and I.
Speaker 12 (27:23):
Hope your show finds a way to spotlight and to
get your listeners to think about, is that most people
who commit crimes are not famous, they're not rich, they're
not well educated at Princeton, and they also have horrific
reasons that they do what they do. Our jails and
our prisons are not filled with horrible people who are
(27:46):
psychopaths most of the time. There are rare exceptions, but
most people who make the worst mistake of their lives
have done so because of horrible circumstances that have brought
them to the point in their life. Sometimes it's abuse,
sometimes it's addiction. Sometimes it's lack of resources or lack
of finances, or.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Lack of opportunity or being young.
Speaker 12 (28:10):
And but I just hope that your listeners realize that
most people do not deserve to be judged by the
worst mistake of their lives, and that we should have compassion, Yes,
absolutely for Lyle and people like him who are victims
of abuse, but also have compassion for the millions and
(28:35):
millions of people that we have put behind bars, that
we do not think about, that you do not care about,
that you do not pay attention to, and we dehumanize and.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
Treat in the worst way.
Speaker 12 (28:46):
We absolutely should be considering parole and allowing for rehabilitation,
and that people change and grow, and that we want
them to rehabilitate themselves and become productive members of society
and move past the worst thing they've ever done in
their life.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So true, So true. You know, you know, jails are
full of people with addictions, and you know what the
addiction industry is, you know, the recovery programs that you know,
they're expensive and they get families and they tell them
this is how you treat your addict family member, and
(29:26):
whether or not you can do that, and you know,
the jails are full of the holes in all the
social programs that no longer exist or are just so
badly staffed, you know, and mental health in America, I mean,
my god, we don't have enough help for everyone's it's
(29:49):
a tragedy. Yet we seem to be able to find
millions and millions and millions of dollars for other wars
and other nations, and that, frankly, I don't understand. I
really don't, But yes, I agree with you. Most of
the people in prison are not rich and didn't go
to Princeton. You're totally right. And everyone deserves to be
(30:11):
treated as an equal part of society and a human being,
and you know, everyone deserves to feel a part of society.
And yeah, yeah, good points. Thank you very much for
leaving that message our last one today. Evo EVO, what
a cool name.
Speaker 13 (30:33):
Hi, Rosie, my name is Evo, and I'm from San Jose, California,
right outside of the San Francisco and the Bay area.
And I just, oh, excuse me. I just finished listening
to the Lie Old men Endez podcast and that you
have on your Onwards show. And oh, Rosie, that's amazing,
(30:57):
that's so amazing that you're doing this. Yes, I do
believe that you should put both brothers on or I
don't know, you know, talk more about it. You know,
this is this destroys lives and you really would be
helping a lot. It's wonderful what you're doing. I hope
(31:20):
you do it. I hope you're protected when you do,
and I hope that the truth comes to light in
a way that everyone can understand it. Thank you, Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you, Evo. Beautiful sentiment. I love your big heart
getting all choked up. Yeah, they deserve to be free.
They've served enough time, and we can write this wrong.
We can, and we just need some brave people at
the DA's office and to get a resentencing going, because
(31:56):
Lord knows, thirty four years is enough time, especially for
boys who were so brutalized as they were. All Right,
we'll be back with more after this. Thank you to
(32:21):
each and every one of you who left a voice memo.
With all that's going on, we need to listen, love
and help each other in any way possible. Sometimes, for me,
in the quietest moments, it's as simple as befriending a squirrel.
I know some of you think that's crazy. Sorry not sorry.
Next week, my guest is Derek Downey Junior, aka a
(32:43):
Squirrel's best Friend. Fighting depression like so many of us do,
Derek found solace and connecting with his neighborhood squirrels and
sharing these videos on social media. Now he has over
a million TikTok followers. Derek uses this time with his
favorite squirrel, Max Vaccine, as a way to share thoughts
on compassion, mindfulness, humanity, and coexisting with nature. He is
(33:07):
a lovely, lovely man, Derek Downey Junior. That's next week,
Gone onward until then, Peace out, everybody,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.