December 5, 2023 • 49 mins
Actor, comedian and host, the dynamic Murray Hill joins Rosie this week in a chatty, poignant, and jocular conversation.
An "overnight success" 25 years in the making, Murray is now widely known for portraying 'Fred' on the HBO hit show "Somebody, Somewhere."
Listen in as Rosie and Murray compare notes from their "tomboy" days, creating their own ladders to climb up to break those glass ceilings, and passing the torch of unconditional acceptance to future generations.
Share your voice memos with any questions or comments for Rosie to OnwardRosie@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Well, hey, everybody, you found me Rosie o'donalds are the
Flintstones and this is onward. It is December. How about
that Christmas is almost here? And I went to a
fancy schmancy Hollywood party last night Paris Hilton, who is
a lovely, lovely woman. Seriously, I've come to know her
(00:35):
through my friendship with Cia, and they're very close. And
so Sia has these wonderful dinner parties, and so I've
met her there and we've you know, hung out a bit,
and she invited me to her party, and Kathy Griffin
and Pammy Adlon and Cia and me and Loraine Newman
(00:57):
and we all were there together, and it was really
funny because I don't usually go to parties, you know,
I don't. I have like a routine with my kiddo,
who's only ten, and you know, when they get home
from school, it's a pretty big routine that goes down
for you know, shower and get stuff ready and homework
(01:18):
and all that. So when I go out, it's a
big disruption for their world, you know. But I also,
you know, have been talking to my therapist and saying
for my own mental health, it's nice to be around
friends your age and you have things in common with
and so I went. Now, I have to tell you
that I do love all my friends in this whole gang.
(01:40):
But I was desperately trying to see the new babies,
because you know, Paris has the little boy Phoenix who
is just so adorable, and the new little little baby London,
and I was dying to hold that little baby. But
you know what I knew when I got there, it
was an outdoor par partie, that it was going to
(02:01):
be too cold for a newborn like that, you know.
But I did see Paris's assistant, who's a great woman,
and I went over to her and said, listen, is
there any way I could go in and see the baby.
I don't know how well enough to be asking to
go into her baby's nursery, do you know? But I
asked the assistant. She said, I'll see what I could do.
(02:22):
But you know, it didn't happen. And that's okay, because
that was a pushy, obnoxious thing to do. But I
just you know, I love a newborn. People, I love
a newborn. Give me a newborn. I'm a happiest woman
in the world. But we had a wonderful time. And
they had like a setup of like a carnival, Like
(02:43):
there was hot dogs on a stick, there were crepes,
there was a hot chocolate booth. There was photo booths
with Santa. Everybody wore pink. I didn't get that part
of the invitation. I wore black and khaki green. I
was sort of the only one nodding glitz me and
and Louren's my buddy. We got to stick together because
when we go out, even to fancy things, you know,
(03:05):
we can't be bothered. But it was a wonderful, wonderful time,
and I was very happy that I went. And thanks
to Kathy Griffin and her husband Randy, who drove me
there and back because I'm not a good night driver.
Gets all glary to me. And you know, that's when
I really feel like, God, you're getting to be a
senior citizen. O'Donnell. You don't want to drive at night
(03:25):
because it's too glary. It's such like an old lady
person thing to say. But what can I tell you? Well, listen,
let me tell you we have a wonderful show today.
Here on onward. My conversation with the one and only
Murray Hill actor comedian, host and self proclaimed hardest work
(03:45):
in middle aged man and showbiz. I've known Murray for
a long while now and now playing Fred on HBO's
Somebody Somewhere the Bridgid Efforts series, which is so fantastic.
We have gotten to know him so muchmuch better and
so much more, and I'm so happy for their success.
He's pure showbiz, which is his trademardphrase, and one of
(04:08):
the most genuine and joyful humans in the world, you know,
kind and lovely, So please enjoy me and my friend
Murray Hill. Murray Hill, how are you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh right?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Like you're riding the wave of super success to them?
How do you feel?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
You know I'm unemployed, but you know, I hope.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I feel good, Rosie, because you know I'm an overnight
success for about twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Now, exactly twenty five years ago you kind of wandered
into New York and Boston. Is that how long ago
that was? Is that? Where did you grow up as
a little ki?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, Rosie, you know we share some things in common.
So I was born in Massachusetts, right, and I'm Irish
also half Irish, half Italian.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Bless me.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I got a lot of problems there you go, twelve
steps in every nationality.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, and I grew up in Connecticut, which was awful,
and then.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I went back to Boston went to school there, and
then I moved to New York and that was it.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That was it. And you sort of snuck into a
club that was having a drag king knight. You said
you were a reporter from the Village Voice or something.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yes, I did, and I took photographs of all these
drag kings. This was like nineteen ninety four, Rosie. It
was a long time ago. And yes it was Yes,
it was showbiz. And yeah, you know, I went to
Wakestock first. You remember Wigstock right in the of course
drag race. And I went to wigs Stock the first
(05:52):
weekend I moved to New York, and I saw all
these drag queens, all these gay men, and I had
an epiphany or I just opened.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Up my damn eyes and I said, where are the lesbians?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Where the butcher's exactly? Yes, right, you are to be found.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Not too much different than today, but thanks to you
and some others, you know, we've broken some glass ceilings.
So yeah, I went to go find out what was
on the other side of this drag spectrum, and I
snuck into a very early drag king pageant.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
At the Hershey Bar in the Meat Now, had you
heard of drag kings as a as a thing? Like
everybody heard of drag queens, even you know, in the
nineties and the eighties, but drag kings? Was that the
first kind of introduction to it? Or no?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
No, no, yeah, I didn't know anything about it. I
didn't know anything of course, growing up in New England
about especially growing up Catholic.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I'm like, gay, what's that besides you know, going to Hell?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Showbiz exactly every week every Sunday, telling you Sunday, by
the way, Body of Christ, You're going to Hell.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And by the way, every one of your friends are,
You're going to have the next twenty five years also
going to Hell?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Right one hell of a party though when we get there,
I can tell you that much. You were, like me,
a tomboy, never wore a dress, didn't like dressing up,
didn't like makeup, you know, but I never ever felt
like a boy. It's so interesting how each one of us,
like you know, lesbian mask women, have different ways that
(07:27):
we came to that, even though we're perceived in one
group of people, you know, and how how hard was
it for you with the Catholic family to be able
to state who you were and how young were you
when you were able to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, that's that's an interesting question because you know, as
you know, our generation, we didn't have any of the
language that there is today at all. Also, was tomboy,
that was it. There wasn't even question in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So correct and tom boy was never derogatory. I never
felt it was a bad thing when somebody said that
about me.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, it wasn't. And it kind of meant that, you know,
had a lot of friends.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
And were good at sports, right exactly, and you know,
and you didn't wear skirts like it was almost as
basic as that. But you know, so it's always it's
always hard for me to tell what came first because
people in my community, you know, you know, growing up,
they always mistook me for a boy. Always, so once
they were like, oh, my voice or whatever, and then
(08:29):
they'd be like, oh, comboy. Yeah, from from kindergarten on,
you know, I was always being mistaken for a boy.
So you know, I never felt like a boy, but
I never felt like a girl either.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But I was.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I even as a young person, I always felt like
I'm just this person, right, this kind of in between
kind of person. And then you know, back then in
elementary school, they they used to break up the classes
by gender totally, you know, like you had to do
like the girls at HOMEC and the guys did shot
right right. And I remember they put me in shop.
(09:03):
I don't even know why because I'm so young. But
and then when the teacher heard me speaking, They're like, oh,
you're in the wrong class.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
You're in the wrong class.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
You got to go to HOMEC, right, And I just
remember being very displaced there, like sewing a goddamn tote bag.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Right right, and age built a bench right right. Now.
Here's when I was doing research about you, and I
heard that you insisted that you stay in shop. Yes, yeah,
you insisted. I am ten years older than you, and
I never in my life would have thought that I
could insist that at that age. You know, I hated
HOMEC too. I had no desire to be there. I
(09:41):
had no desire to do anything. I so wanted to
make the bird house and use the electric saw. And
you know that's what exactly right, How do you think
it came up with knowing to demand that you stayed
in shop.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, you know, it wasn't even about gender anything back then.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
It was you know, I I had an old abra,
and I played sports and I played you know, with
the guys in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Like it was just I just didn't play with girls.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So it didn't make any I didn't understand it because
I was naive, But it didn't make any sense to
me why I would go to homec class right, right,
just so I knew I didn't belong there.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Did you get pushback from your parents? Did your parents
give you like you have to go to home mec? Well,
you know the Catholic parents are always challenging. Yes, they
certainly are, honey.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes they are. They they are both no longer with us.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But you know, my mother was very right wing conservative Republican, Okay,
so you know, as far as that stuff goes, any
kind of difference of your race, your gender, anything that's
not like everybody else in New England was bad.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So again I was ignorant, but I knew I was
bad and wrong. And you know, unfortunately words like center
and discuss you know, things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, horrible things they ascribed to us.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, and the weird part was, you know where she
she totally did not you know, support gay, trans, lesbian anything,
none of that. But in elementary school, they took me
out of the shop class and they put me in
a voice class to you ready for this.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Rosie, wow, dating to sing? They put you in a
voice No.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Worse than that, they put me in a voice class
to make me sound more feminine. Oh gosh, can you
believe that? I can't believe that wild part. My mother
thought that was crazy. So she there was this whole
you know, I remember this whole thing. So she took
me out of that class. So there was some deep, deep,
deep awareness somewhere that she knew that was messed up.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
And thank thankfully, right, thankfully.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So you know, elementary school, junior high school, going through puberty,
it was a shit show, Rosie.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yes, not fun show, not fun, not fun.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And you know, this is all maybe a little too revealing,
but I know, you know, like when you played field
hockey and lacrosse and you know, these sports things you
had to wear skirts and stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was hell yeah, hell on earth.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yes, you know, so I always felt like I was
in a costume in somebody else's costume.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Now you know what, Murray, When I go to any
award show and they spackle me together and they make
me look in a way that I never feel comfortable
looking in my own world. If I in my own choices,
I never choose that, and I always feel like I'm
in drag when I'm at like I presented at the Oscars,
(12:47):
and I remember feeling, this is the most out of
body experience I have ever had in my You walk
down the line where people judge what you look like,
whether or not you're feminine enough, whether or not you
can work dress, and you know what, Murray, I cannot same. Yeah,
I just naturally don't have the ability. I remember once
(13:08):
I was at at an event with Marishka hargatea and
she came over and she said, oh, I mean, I
guess I'm busted, And I was like, you're what She's like,
I'm busted. I go for what she goes. Well, I
saw you last week at the opening of that theater
show and I was wearing the same dress, and Murray,
(13:28):
I was hysterical laughing that Marishka hargate would think I
would remember a dress at all. Like was such a
weird classon to me, like, I don't even see the dresses.
I don't even care about the dresses. They don't it's
ter be.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Burned in in the fireplace. They're gone.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, exactly, It's so true. It's uh, I don't know it.
It's just how you're born. And people took a long
time to get on board with that concept.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And Rose, let me ask you a question, Rosie, when
now you know, because we're talking about dress and stuff too, right, Yes,
And obviously you know I've been a fan of yours
since Star Search Showbiz. And you know I didn't cut
my hair until I was in New York, right, So
it took me, I would say, till nineteen ninety five
(14:21):
or ninety six to actually you know it was you know,
it went further and further up. I chopped it off
and no turning back in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Now you got your hair cut later, right.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Much later. In fact, I was doing a show HBO
show with Derek c and Franz the director and Mark
Ruffalo and he said to me, I know you can
do this part. I can see you in this part.
Will you cut off your hair? And I remember thinking
uh oh, and I was like, uh yeah, yeah, I
will cut off my hair. And so when we did it,
(14:55):
the hairdresser said to me, change your hair, change your life,
and you know what, they were right. I cut off
my hair and it was like I was freed to
be me that I didn't know I was waiting to be.
And sometimes people say to me, still, I liked you
better with long hair, I said, well, I didn't, you know,
(15:15):
I like the can't work address. I never knew what
to do with my hair. I don't know if you did,
Murray when you had that long Irish Catholic girl's hair.
I never could throw it in a message gun. It
was a disaster for me too. It was a disaster.
I couldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Sometimes I wish like, why didn't somebody, you know, from
the elder community pull us aside Rosie and help.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Us out right?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Well, what so we could do now to the younger kids?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And I hope that we do when kids come over
to me, well, my own child, I have a ten
year old who's non binary, and they told me about
a year ago that their stuffed animals were non binary.
And then as they turned ten, they said, you know,
I'm non binary too, I said, fantastic. You know, I'm like,
what exactly does that mean? And she says, it means
you're not a boy and you're not a girl, You're
(16:01):
something in between. I find it very comforting, and I
find it very much of an honor to be able
to raise this individual and support all of the beautiful Yeah,
it's beautiful to me too. And the fact that.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
She could even tell you, you know, like that's just
consider it.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Like, you know, we weren't get We not only did
we not have the language and the tools to explore
our own gender identity, we were told early on what
you can't be right. So there's no oh, hey Bob,
I think I'm gay or I think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That those discussions never even happened, right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So the fact that you have a ten year old
coming to you and saying that, and you know you're
not throwing her out, you're not yelling at her, you're
not telling her to go to confession, like you know,
you've broken.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
The cycle without a doubt, And.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's the beauty of the movement.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I did that. Did's the you know, did your mother
live long enough to see your success in the entertainment
industry or or was she confronted with your queerness and
how did she react when she was living?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Well, it's a long story, but there's a little heartbreaking
story in there.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Is she So I.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Was estranged from her and from my family since I
was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So when I went to New York, that was it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I was gone.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
It was too much and it wasn't healthy. So I left.
And when my father died, I went back. I you know,
eighteen years later, I went back to the funeral and
all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So then I re established contact with my mother.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
And you know, as much of a homophobic and transphobic
and right wing as she is.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
You know what show she loves?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Rosie?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Andy Cohen's Watch What Happens Live?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The gayest show on TV? Super gay? Come on? But
why do.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Straight suburban women watch Andy Cohen? Andy? I know him,
but you know they love him.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
They do. They love him, and they love all those
shows that he creates, which I can't seem to sit through.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Well, I toured with Countess Luanne so for a year
and that was a trip. But so the fact that
I was on Andy Cohen's show a couple of times
to me. My mother was like, oh, oh, you're on
Andy Cohen show.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I was like, what, Yeah, you've arrived. You've arrived, Marie.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, like I'm like a arrived I thought I was
a cul de sac.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Did you end up being having conversations with her about
this or about your queerness on the whole or just
the Andy that that was the moment Andy Cohen?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, you know, I never had any conversations with her
about it, And you know that that was to her
because she also had that kind of work ethic, like
you just work. All your value is if you worked,
if you had a job, right, right, And the fact
that I was an artist or an entertainer or a comedian,
it's like, well, that's not really a job. So if
you're on Andy Cohen, that means you have a job.
(18:54):
Or you know, it was validating to her that I
was on that show, which was mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So you know, when we got the somebody somewhere.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We want to say, let's take a pause, Let's take
a pause. You are fantastic on that show, and that
show is absolutely brilliant, and the cast is just so lovable,
and I feel like they're even though I know you guys.
But I feel like the characters are my friends. Like
I'll be driving in the car and I'll think, oh, Fred,
oh that's the show. That's no real life. That's how
(19:27):
good it is and how real it is. And so
congratulations to you and Bravo, thank you, You're welcome. But
go ahead when you come to that.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
We're very excited.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You know, we could shoot season three now, thanks, right,
that's coming. So yeah, So when we we Bridget got
the okay to do the pilot and we didn't get
the series order yet, so we shot the pilot and
then the pandemic happened, so then there's a huge pause,
and then eventually we got green lit to do series
(19:59):
first season, right, And at that time, my mother became
very ill and so this is this is crazy how
the universe works.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So about two weeks before the show season was.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
About to premiere, Okay, she really fell ill and she
had stage four lung cancer and she knew that I
was on this show, but that the release date kept
getting pushed back because of COVID and all this other stuff.
So it finally had a premiere date and you know,
everything's under lock and key at HBO. There's no links.
(20:37):
You know, it's like NDA's all kinds of stuff. And
my uncle called and said she's not gonna make it
to Friday, and the show was gonna debut on that
Sunday night. So I told Bridget this, and you know,
Bridge and I have very good friends, and I didn't
know she did this, but she went to the head
(20:59):
of HBO and said, I need a viewing link that
I can show in Murray's mother's hospice place, and the
nurse is gonna we want her to see episode one before.
So this was like a Wednesday, okay, So I wasn't there.
(21:20):
I had seen her like that last time, like a
couple of days before. So that Wednesday, okay, we got
the nurse, got the phone, got a private link from HBO,
showed her episode one and so you know, that was
the big choir practice scene and Fred and there was
a line in there that Mark Duplas had me improv
(21:45):
and I said, I'm not going to hit you, but
run into this and that's what my grandmother used to say. Okay,
very Italian line. So he said, improv a different line here,
and I said that. So the word on the street
is my mother when she heard that she knew it
was from her mother, right, and she started crying and
(22:09):
she was smiling and she you know, and this this
is you know, this is the stuff you know the movies, right,
she said the nurse that she was proud of me.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh honey. And then two days later she asked, yes,
so you know.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It's it's she did see it and for her having
a job and HBO and Sunday Night.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
On HBO, like you know that deal, big deal. Yeah,
right at the end, you know, it was validating, which
is mind blowing.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, what a gift, What a gift?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
And yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It was really something special. And I really appreciate HBO
and Bridget because it was. It just happened so quick.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
We'll be right back with more Murray Hill after this. Now,
(23:17):
you and Bridget I have been friends since the very
beginning of both your careers. Is it true that you
gave her her first gig on the stage in New
York or what's that story?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yes, I met Bridget as you know. You know, we've
seen each other in person quite a few times. I'm
pretty short. I'm big, but I'm short. Bridget is like
eight feet tall. She's so tall we're hilarious looking. She's
so goddamn tall. So the first day my friend introduced me,
she goes, oh, Bridget just moved to town. I was like,
oh Bridget, and he was like, she's a singer. I'm like, oh, singer,
(23:49):
what are you doing Saturday night? Come down at Avenue
at fifth Street. I'm doing a show at this place
called mo Pickens. You're on at ninet thirty. And she
shows up and you know, she newly in town, and
her her show outfit back then, Rosie was a corset
and panties.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I believe it, and I'm I believe it.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, And like she had she used to have
one of those like Deli plaid bags, you know, like
the dollar store bags.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
That was her showbag. Right, So she was a mess.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And you know, the second she hit stage, she had
that huge personality and my audience loved her, and then
we fell in love with each other and that was it.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So she was in my shows, then I was in
her shows.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Then you she did this, and then and then she
was doing pilots and I was doing stuff, and then
you know, she hung in there and she slowly, you know,
broke that glass ceiling.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
She certainly did. She invited some friends, and what a
beautiful thing. You know, you it's so amazing that you
hear of men doing that for each other sometimes, but
you don't always hear about women, uh, supporting each other
and in such a basic, familiar way, you know, a
forever kind of in show business. Now, I was lucky
(25:05):
in most of the things I did for the whole
first part of my acting career, I was directed by women.
So weird, right, it never happened. That's like, I know,
like every movie I'm getting, it's another woman directing, it's
another legendary woman. And and so I felt like so
Penny Marshall, Nora Ephron, Bronwin Hughes people that I just
(25:25):
was so overwhelmed to be able to work with and
to learn from, and and uh, you know how trippy
is that, you know that you get to meet this
young girl when you're just young and in the business,
and and here you are on this hit show, this
critically acclaimed beautiful morsel of humanity every Sunday on HBO,
(25:47):
and I just love it so much. And I love her.
Her sister, Tricia Mary Catherine Garrison, who I know from Broadway.
And I was so happy to see her because she
was roommate with Bridget all those years when they were
both like doing stuff at Joe's Pub and on Broadway
and off and and and they all came back together
(26:08):
as friends too. And I think the chemistry is so
good on that show that you can't fake it, Like
you can tell there's love there. And that's like what
you felt when you watched Mary Tyler Moore.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Wow, that's the greatest thing you could ever say. And
you know, we've we've all known each other. You know
that that apartment that Bridget and Mary Catherine livedd you know,
it was a ground floor apartment on the Upper West Side,
you know, with the air conditioning facing the street with
holes for little animals to come in it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
It was a shit, right, And you know I lived
way out in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So you know the thing that's cool about somebody somewhere
and that I give Bridget and HBO and of course
are esteemed leader Carolyn aronstrous there is you know, yeah,
they it's so real because we are real.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
They didn't get actors to play people like us, right,
and I think, you know, because none of us fit
the you know, Each one of us is like a
misfit in our own ways. Like I'm the short, chuvy
trans guy, you know, Jeff is the tall, skinny homo.
And bridgets, you know, all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Every bridget is everything, right, correct is everything?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
And an ally yes, you know, but we all of
us are very real people because we've had to deal
with a lot of adversity in our own lives.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Of course we can relate to everybody else survive.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, it does feel a little bit like the Land
of Misfit Toys, only with more joy. You know. The
toys were always the broken arm and crying. Remember they
were They were not happily, you know, living their lives
there on the Land of Misfit Toys. They were sad.
But you guys, I don't know the joy that comes
through that show. I can't even tell you. Do you
(27:57):
have time, because you know, you what do you do
ten episodes or eight? I think we do seven? Yeah,
it's crazy now its new ways they do everything. But
so you have time to do other things? Are you
still like touring and hosting and what are you doing
in that area of your life?
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I still host any kind of show. I love hosting.
I've done it forever. I did a game well not
a game show, a reality show last summer.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Oh I remember the Neil Patrick arat Yes, very cute.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, Drag Me to Dinner and you know, I got
a taste of the good life. And I know you
know this from your talk show. Yeah, but you know
on the HBO show, they don't have teleprapters.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Rosie right and Dragged.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Me to Dinner.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I had about five. It was a huge one in
the back. There was one on the camera, there was
one on the side. I mean, I was a pig
and shit. It was like my favorite.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
It was like the HBO is kind of like the
the high brow, the acting and all that stuff, and
then you know, the the Drag Me to Dinner is
the hosting.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And then I can you know, improv and be wild
and then go back on the script.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
So it's showbiz. I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah. So I hope to do more than more of both.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Of those things.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
You know. Yeah, are we doing more of the drag Queen,
come to Dinner, Drag Me to Dinner? Or are they
doing more of those shows? Or was it just that
I find out next week right out next week. Right, Yeah,
so good, that's that's fantastic. Who was it that you
looked up to? Acting wise when you were a kid,
when you were in Connecticut and you were watching the
TV and you were could you find representation at all
(29:38):
of yourself? Did you see anyone that you were like,
I kind of get their vibe? You know?
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Well, I mean there wasn't anybody that I saw like myself,
so I kind of you know how like gay men
have always attached themselves to devas, right, yeah, it's just
part of total culture.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, So you know I did.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I totally totally did, like Tina Turner, yes, and Ben
Midler in the forties, right, yes, And I was like
these are these are two powerful, strong women who did
whatever the fuck they wanted to do, totally massive personalities
and they broke the mold.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
So I didn't look at them as like a sexuality
or gender any of that stuff. I was just like, wow,
these are It was always women. I was like, oh,
it was incredible, like just mind blowing, right, you know,
So I so I did look up to them and
like Liza Minnelli of course, yes, And'try sand streisand yeah,
(30:38):
well her new book is underneath this laptop.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I was gonna say, you need four people to help
you carry it upstairs. It's it's a thousand ages and
it's something like forty eight hours of audio. Forty eight hours. Yeah,
I mean listen, the woman is a perfectionist and she
does it as she likes. And the's at eighty one
years old. Good for her, right, and.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
You know what it's You know, there isn't a more
successful woman in showbiz.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
You know, it's like all the different you know, verticals
that she's been in.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
But Rosie, you know, I gotta.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Tell you too, you were a huge influence on me.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
You got these kids got to remember you know, I
remember you from Star Search and I never looked at
you and like, my immediate thing to me when when
I saw you when I was younger, was it was like,
oh she's gay or lesbian.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It wasn't what struck me about you when I saw you.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I hadn't seen anybody like you on TV before, and
you were very brash and confident and you had you
have that same kind of thing, you know, that Vaudeville rhythm.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, exactly totally.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
You know, but you stoock out just the same way
that Bet Midler did you.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Know, Now you might you might not.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Have felt that, because I know you feel different sometimes
we feel different than what we're portraying, especially in show is.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
But you may not have felt that.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
But to those of us who didn't have anyone else
to look at on TV, you were on main street
TV successful, you were doing these comedy shows and tapings
and stuff, and you know, there wasn't anybody else like you, right,
And to me I saw you know, was like, that's
an individual, a unique, original person who's hilarious because comedy
(32:25):
is all nice. A man's a guy's world, you.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Know, yes, without a doubt, it's a guy's world. And
I was I'm a big fan of John Rivers right
right exactly. Thank you for saying that, Murray. That's so
kind of you and it's so sweet. And you know,
I don't think we ever can fully appreciate the effect
that we have on others as an entertainer, because no
matter how successful I ever became, I never, in my
(32:49):
mind was one of them the ones that I looked
up to from that Rondelayne bedroom with a mirror that said, Hollywood,
here I come. And that's what I I was dreaming
of all my life and then to have have achieved
it and to be sixty one and take a moment
and look back at everything and go, how did I
get here? And what has this journey been about? You know?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, and then there's somebody out there who's still gliding
that's ten years younger than you, has looked up to
you since you know Star Search.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Here was Star Search nineteen eighty four. I was twenty two.
Oh my god, can you believe that? I was twenty two?
Added David Cassidy haircut and the last the first time
I went on the.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Stage right a blazer.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
I had a blazer and they said to me I
had to wear pumps. So I please, I beg you.
I'm going to look for the clip and send it
to you. It's me in this willyware Gray men's suit
in pumps walking out to do my twenty seconds of
stand up comedy on Star Search. So you know, it's
funny the things you remember when you look at it
(33:56):
through a specific lens, you know, But listen, I think
that you're paving ways for so many in ways that
you don't even know. And for my kid, you know,
for my kid who you know, it goes on their
own journey, and I will be next to them whatever
they decide. But I would love for them to see
(34:16):
all kinds of people. And there are no rules, and
there is no place that you have to follow it
this way or end up with a body that looks
like this or be that or be this. As they
say to me, it means I'm not a girl and
I'm not a boy. Okay, I understand that, And that's okay,
And that's okay exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
And you know, Rosie, I think on that note, it's
you know, there's so many labels and gender identifications and
this and that and and I think, you know, because
I am older, you know, I also am like I
don't need I'm in a good place. I don't need
to identify myself in one way. Right, I'm kind of like,
(34:59):
you know, you're had year old kid, where it's like,
I'm I'm okay with who I am. It's everybody else
who needs the goddamn labels. So I'm okay with being like,
oh I don't I don't like to say, oh I'm Murray,
I'm at drag King of trans I just want to
be Murray. I just want to be like everybody else, right,
you know, yes, and I think comedy. And this is
what your comedy did for me is because I saw
(35:21):
you as a comedian first, and I laughed at your
jokes first. I related to you as a person, as
a human, you know what. And I'm like, oh, she's hilarious.
So it wasn't like, oh, that's an outcomic, that's a
leslie right over their closetive comic and all that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Bullshit, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I was like, no, this person is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
You got the talent and you're a complete original, and
you're like fuck you to the system.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, you know it's funny. I started doing stand up again,
just did one night at the comedy store, and you
know what, Murray, I was not very funny. I really was.
And I felt like I was one of those people
at their high school. Were you when you knew? So
I'll throw the football and then needs rotorcrof surgery the
next day. You know, you have to be doing it.
You have to stand up and do it every night.
(36:08):
And so I go this Saturday to do it again.
And then I'm going to decide if I'm going to
try to make a whole New Hour because uh, it's different.
It's some of the some of the people there said
to me after the show at the comedy store, I
didn't know you did stand up comedy. I was like, seriously,
I said, you had no idea it was a stand
up comic at the beginning of my career. Nope, no idea.
(36:31):
So it just goes to show you there's, you know,
a blank canvas everywhere you look, if you can look,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
And I think you know that the model back then
of like comedians, you're getting their own show, whether it
was a sitcom or a talk show.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't know if that happens as much.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
So everybody knew you know, you and Ellen you had
you were busting and pounding the comedy scene and you're
breaking through a total boys club totally. Then you got
a show, right, so you know, and that was insurmountable.
But you had to put all that time in to
even just.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Get up there a little bit.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So these kids, correct, they don't know it. They don't
know it.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Go do your show at Dynasty Typewriter.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Where's that that's in on the other side of town
in LA Because that's what's changed, Okay, this is what
changed since you started, since I started, is you know
there's all your big clubs, right the comedy store and
all those rise places and here comedy sell that stuff.
But now there's a whole alternative, less agro, less male
(37:39):
comedy environment and dynasty typewriter in La is the place
where you know the young kids are playing at. Maria
Bamford's playing, Bridget's playing, you know, Adam Sandler's doing a
couple of nights there. So it's it's you know, I
think you would maybe find a different vibe there that
(37:59):
was going to meet you where you are now.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I definitely need a different place, not to return to
the one I had to go to the light. I
had Maria on the show Bamford, and she was telling
me about these afternoon lunch comedy performances she does because
she's too tired at night, and I was like, that's
what I need. I need a lunchtime comedy club so
(38:24):
that I can come home and deal with my kid. Listen,
You're delightful. Thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Do you too, Rosie, You're the best.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
It's great to see you, and thank you for being
so honest, stick around everybody. We'll be back with comments
from you are beloved listeners. Okay, wasn't he funny? I
(39:01):
love Murray I did. I hope you enjoyed it and
he and bridget effort on that show and that you
got to watch It's Somebody Somewhere HBO Max. Okay, So
our episode with Alison Joseph's ninety nine point nine percent
of the voice memos were comments about thanking me and
Alison for having a very hard conversation. And here are
(39:22):
a couple that really represent what everybody was saying. And
I can't thank you enough for listening and sticking through
it and for all of your support. So we have
a voice memo now from Chris. Let's hear what Chris
has to say.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Hi, Rosie, this is Chris from Los Angeles. It's been
great getting to be reacquainted with you through the course
of this podcast. I love so many of the conversations
that you've had. They've been entertaining that maybe laugh, they
made me think. It's been a really, really great part
of my week, and so thank you very much. I
wanted to send a special thank you for the conversation
(39:59):
you just had with Alison Joseph's This was a tough one,
and I'm sure it was tough for you and.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Tough for Alison.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
But what I wanted to rather than offering an opinion
on the conversation, what I wanted to say was thank you.
It was so great to hear two confident, smart women
have a debate.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
A healthy, strong debate where.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Both of you stood firm in your perspectives and yet
we're so respectful of the other. And I just thought
it was a great exchange of ideas and I really
benefited from hearing of it, you know, having seen a
lot of the stuff that's going on in the Middle
East and not really knowing what to believe, what to feel,
feeling very confused about the whole situation, So that was
(40:46):
great to hear. And also considering the way men in
Congress have behaved, certainly in the last few weeks, where
it feels like discourse now in Congress is.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
On the level of a barroom every week.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
I'm not sure how much that actually accomplishes, and it
just seems to make us more divided and more base
in our communication. So, you know, hearing the two of
you have a strong, healthy debate, like This was really
instructive to me, and I wish that that's the way
debate could be today in America. It seems like we'd
(41:22):
get a lot more done anyway. So I just wanted
to say thank you, and I look forward to more conversations,
whether they're fun and light or whether they're really thoughtful
and passionate and uncomfortable like the one you were willing
to have with Allison.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
So thank you both. Well, thank you, Chris. That was
a beautiful message that you left. And you know, I
think both Alison and I have been getting mostly comments
just like that, and it was a difficult discussion to have,
but I knew from talking to her for the last
couple of years online. I knew what she was about
and who she was, and how she loves her family
(42:01):
and how she has strong convictions about her belief in
what it means to be Jewish in the world today,
and I have nothing but respect for her. I wanted
to make sure to invite someone to come and have
this discussion with me, someone like Alison, who I knew
was kind and respectful and intelligent and not looking for
(42:27):
a fight. You know, I think that that's you know,
when I saw that what you were referring to in
Congress about the two congressmen, like taking off his ring
to get in a fistfight with somebody about I mean,
I don't know. It used to be that was unheard
of for the US Congress, right, And we've fallen, Boy,
(42:47):
have we fallen in terms of being able to have
political discourse without violence. You know, so thank you, thank
you for that. And I want to thank Alison Joseph's again.
And you know, I'm hoping that we can continue to
have deep discussions when the situation in the world calls
(43:08):
for it. And you know that you guys will will
stick with me through the tough ones and through the fun,
light easy ones. And you know, life is a mixed
bag and you don't only get one side of anything,
and it's good to open up your perspectives and hear
other people's ideas. And that's something I say to myself
(43:28):
in a constant, constant way. I always think, when I
have these strong opinions, who asked you? You know, shut up, o'donald.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Nobody asked you.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
But I do have a need sometimes to speak. And
from having been in the public eye for so many years,
you kind of start to think it's your job, you know,
But I mean, I don't have a doctorate in midi studies,
so I wonder to myself why do I have such
strong opinions? But I'm glad I have a place to
(43:59):
put them in. It's right here onward. So thank you, Chris,
thank you so very much. I think we have one more.
Let's see what that is, Hi, Rosio o'donald.
Speaker 6 (44:09):
I hope you hear this message because I really wanted
to send you a very big hug today. I've just
listened to your podcast and I thought you sounded like
you needed a hug, So I want to send you
a hug. And you say, oh, I've only got a
little podcast. Well, I'm Irish living in France for almost
twenty years, and it's the highlight of my week. So
(44:29):
don't underestimate what you're doing, and don't underestimate the positivity
that you bring to people's lives and the ways you
help us see and understand things differently. With everything you're doing,
I really really appreciate it, and you deserve a giant hug.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
And from all your community, I know we love you
so much. And that's it.
Speaker 6 (44:50):
And yeah, I'm a mom to a little boy that
I adopted to, and here's the light of my life.
So I love hearing when you talk about Dakota and
your other kids and doing what you're doing. On word Rosie,
love you.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Bye, so sweet. I love your brogue. It's beautiful. Reminds
me of my grandmother, so wild Listen, thank you. I
did sort of need a hug. You know, it's scary
to voice your opinion when there's such insundiary remarks flying
here and there all over the media this way, that way,
(45:24):
and you know it's never to be right. It's to
get to better understanding of people who disagree with what
you're feeling and seeing. And you know I could have
used a hug, so thank you, But I will say this.
You know, Alison is very warm, and she's very she's
(45:48):
very smart, and I only have love and respect for her.
But I did feel anxious to not say the wrong thing,
to not trigger someone to stand by, you know, my
beliefs and disparage any other any other group, you know,
And it's hard to do that. Sometimes it's hard to
(46:08):
feel vulnerable. But it's so nice to hear the reaction
and that people were moved by it, and and some
people felt that they had a better understanding. And then
that's really the goal of this podcast and pretty much
every podcast, don't you think. Although some do try to incite,
you know, viral content, but we're not looking to do
(46:30):
that here. We're looking to have some healthy, fun conversations
and some deep subjects.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
When wre did so.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Thank you and kiss your baby for me. All right,
and we have one more. We have one more, and
guess who it is, our old friend Meryll coming back
for her third comment. I can't wait to hear it.
All right.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
I'm not gonna lie. That was that was difficult listening. Hi,
we need light, light, banter and the humor. Come on,
and everyone needs to just love one another. It's not
(47:11):
that difficult, not that difficult to be kind, smile, look,
help engage. You know. There's too much stuff that separates everyone.
And it's come on, we're so alike, you know, when
it comes down to it with this, we got the
(47:32):
same shit going on in our bodies. Come on, anyway,
you mentioned squirrels. I want to move on to lighter shit. Squirrels.
I'm in love with my squirrels. They're so happy to
see me.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Every day.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
I mean, it's funny anyway.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's all I just needed to say.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Let's let's lighten up and laugh more and love more.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
You know, life is short.
Speaker 4 (48:01):
Okay, it's Meryl and hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving.
Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
I just love Meryl right. Most of the other ones
were thank you for having the hard conversation. She's like, enough,
make it more funny. Well, I think Meryl's gonna enjoy
next week on Onward. You can join me for my
conversation with Annoyed Lemon. I know what you're thinking, Annoyed Lemon,
what is she talking about? Well, if you're not a TikToker,
you may not know who Annoyed Lemon is. And well
(48:35):
neither does anyone kind of because on TikTok she decided
to just be an anonymous, floating lemon with giant eyes
and lips and never give away her identity. She just
quips her opinions about life and does amazing book reviews.
She loves memoirs. She's a memoir queen and I love
(48:58):
her so much. Whenever I tune into her, and I
do every day I flip through, I find her, I stop.
She makes me laugh out loud, and I just thought
we would have a nice, fun, happy conversation with annoyed lemon.
It's next week on Onward with me, Rosie O'Donnell. Hey, everybody,
Happy Hanukah and peace.
Well, hey, everybody, you found me Rosie o'donalds are the
Flintstones and this is onward. It is December. How about
that Christmas is almost here? And I went to a
fancy schmancy Hollywood party last night Paris Hilton, who is
a lovely, lovely woman. Seriously, I've come to know her
(00:35):
through my friendship with Cia, and they're very close. And
so Sia has these wonderful dinner parties, and so I've
met her there and we've you know, hung out a bit,
and she invited me to her party, and Kathy Griffin
and Pammy Adlon and Cia and me and Loraine Newman
(00:57):
and we all were there together, and it was really
funny because I don't usually go to parties, you know,
I don't. I have like a routine with my kiddo,
who's only ten, and you know, when they get home
from school, it's a pretty big routine that goes down
for you know, shower and get stuff ready and homework
(01:18):
and all that. So when I go out, it's a
big disruption for their world, you know. But I also,
you know, have been talking to my therapist and saying
for my own mental health, it's nice to be around
friends your age and you have things in common with
and so I went. Now, I have to tell you
that I do love all my friends in this whole gang.
(01:40):
But I was desperately trying to see the new babies,
because you know, Paris has the little boy Phoenix who
is just so adorable, and the new little little baby London,
and I was dying to hold that little baby. But
you know what I knew when I got there, it
was an outdoor par partie, that it was going to
(02:01):
be too cold for a newborn like that, you know.
But I did see Paris's assistant, who's a great woman,
and I went over to her and said, listen, is
there any way I could go in and see the baby.
I don't know how well enough to be asking to
go into her baby's nursery, do you know? But I
asked the assistant. She said, I'll see what I could do.
(02:22):
But you know, it didn't happen. And that's okay, because
that was a pushy, obnoxious thing to do. But I
just you know, I love a newborn. People, I love
a newborn. Give me a newborn. I'm a happiest woman
in the world. But we had a wonderful time. And
they had like a setup of like a carnival, Like
(02:43):
there was hot dogs on a stick, there were crepes,
there was a hot chocolate booth. There was photo booths
with Santa. Everybody wore pink. I didn't get that part
of the invitation. I wore black and khaki green. I
was sort of the only one nodding glitz me and
and Louren's my buddy. We got to stick together because
when we go out, even to fancy things, you know,
(03:05):
we can't be bothered. But it was a wonderful, wonderful time,
and I was very happy that I went. And thanks
to Kathy Griffin and her husband Randy, who drove me
there and back because I'm not a good night driver.
Gets all glary to me. And you know, that's when
I really feel like, God, you're getting to be a
senior citizen. O'Donnell. You don't want to drive at night
(03:25):
because it's too glary. It's such like an old lady
person thing to say. But what can I tell you? Well, listen,
let me tell you we have a wonderful show today.
Here on onward. My conversation with the one and only
Murray Hill actor comedian, host and self proclaimed hardest work
(03:45):
in middle aged man and showbiz. I've known Murray for
a long while now and now playing Fred on HBO's
Somebody Somewhere the Bridgid Efforts series, which is so fantastic.
We have gotten to know him so muchmuch better and
so much more, and I'm so happy for their success.
He's pure showbiz, which is his trademardphrase, and one of
(04:08):
the most genuine and joyful humans in the world, you know,
kind and lovely, So please enjoy me and my friend
Murray Hill. Murray Hill, how are you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh right?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Like you're riding the wave of super success to them?
How do you feel?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
You know I'm unemployed, but you know, I hope.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I feel good, Rosie, because you know I'm an overnight
success for about twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Now, exactly twenty five years ago you kind of wandered
into New York and Boston. Is that how long ago
that was? Is that? Where did you grow up as
a little ki?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, Rosie, you know we share some things in common.
So I was born in Massachusetts, right, and I'm Irish
also half Irish, half Italian.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Bless me.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I got a lot of problems there you go, twelve
steps in every nationality.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, and I grew up in Connecticut, which was awful,
and then.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I went back to Boston went to school there, and
then I moved to New York and that was it.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That was it. And you sort of snuck into a
club that was having a drag king knight. You said
you were a reporter from the Village Voice or something.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yes, I did, and I took photographs of all these
drag kings. This was like nineteen ninety four, Rosie. It
was a long time ago. And yes it was Yes,
it was showbiz. And yeah, you know, I went to
Wakestock first. You remember Wigstock right in the of course
drag race. And I went to wigs Stock the first
(05:52):
weekend I moved to New York, and I saw all
these drag queens, all these gay men, and I had
an epiphany or I just opened.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Up my damn eyes and I said, where are the lesbians?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Where the butcher's exactly? Yes, right, you are to be found.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Not too much different than today, but thanks to you
and some others, you know, we've broken some glass ceilings.
So yeah, I went to go find out what was
on the other side of this drag spectrum, and I
snuck into a very early drag king pageant.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
At the Hershey Bar in the Meat Now, had you
heard of drag kings as a as a thing? Like
everybody heard of drag queens, even you know, in the
nineties and the eighties, but drag kings? Was that the
first kind of introduction to it? Or no?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
No, no, yeah, I didn't know anything about it. I
didn't know anything of course, growing up in New England
about especially growing up Catholic.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I'm like, gay, what's that besides you know, going to Hell?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Showbiz exactly every week every Sunday, telling you Sunday, by
the way, Body of Christ, You're going to Hell.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And by the way, every one of your friends are,
You're going to have the next twenty five years also
going to Hell?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Right one hell of a party though when we get there,
I can tell you that much. You were, like me,
a tomboy, never wore a dress, didn't like dressing up,
didn't like makeup, you know, but I never ever felt
like a boy. It's so interesting how each one of us,
like you know, lesbian mask women, have different ways that
(07:27):
we came to that, even though we're perceived in one
group of people, you know, and how how hard was
it for you with the Catholic family to be able
to state who you were and how young were you
when you were able to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, that's that's an interesting question because you know, as
you know, our generation, we didn't have any of the
language that there is today at all. Also, was tomboy,
that was it. There wasn't even question in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So correct and tom boy was never derogatory. I never
felt it was a bad thing when somebody said that
about me.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, it wasn't. And it kind of meant that, you know,
had a lot of friends.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
And were good at sports, right exactly, and you know,
and you didn't wear skirts like it was almost as
basic as that. But you know, so it's always it's
always hard for me to tell what came first because
people in my community, you know, you know, growing up,
they always mistook me for a boy. Always, so once
they were like, oh, my voice or whatever, and then
(08:29):
they'd be like, oh, comboy. Yeah, from from kindergarten on,
you know, I was always being mistaken for a boy.
So you know, I never felt like a boy, but
I never felt like a girl either.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But I was.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I even as a young person, I always felt like
I'm just this person, right, this kind of in between
kind of person. And then you know, back then in
elementary school, they they used to break up the classes
by gender totally, you know, like you had to do
like the girls at HOMEC and the guys did shot
right right. And I remember they put me in shop.
(09:03):
I don't even know why because I'm so young. But
and then when the teacher heard me speaking, They're like, oh,
you're in the wrong class.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
You're in the wrong class.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
You got to go to HOMEC, right, And I just
remember being very displaced there, like sewing a goddamn tote bag.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Right right, and age built a bench right right. Now.
Here's when I was doing research about you, and I
heard that you insisted that you stay in shop. Yes, yeah,
you insisted. I am ten years older than you, and
I never in my life would have thought that I
could insist that at that age. You know, I hated
HOMEC too. I had no desire to be there. I
(09:41):
had no desire to do anything. I so wanted to
make the bird house and use the electric saw. And
you know that's what exactly right, How do you think
it came up with knowing to demand that you stayed
in shop.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, you know, it wasn't even about gender anything back then.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
It was you know, I I had an old abra,
and I played sports and I played you know, with
the guys in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Like it was just I just didn't play with girls.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So it didn't make any I didn't understand it because
I was naive, But it didn't make any sense to
me why I would go to homec class right, right,
just so I knew I didn't belong there.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Did you get pushback from your parents? Did your parents
give you like you have to go to home mec? Well,
you know the Catholic parents are always challenging. Yes, they
certainly are, honey.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes they are. They they are both no longer with us.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But you know, my mother was very right wing conservative Republican, Okay,
so you know, as far as that stuff goes, any
kind of difference of your race, your gender, anything that's
not like everybody else in New England was bad.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So again I was ignorant, but I knew I was
bad and wrong. And you know, unfortunately words like center
and discuss you know, things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, horrible things they ascribed to us.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, and the weird part was, you know where she
she totally did not you know, support gay, trans, lesbian anything,
none of that. But in elementary school, they took me
out of the shop class and they put me in
a voice class to you ready for this.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Rosie, wow, dating to sing? They put you in a
voice No.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Worse than that, they put me in a voice class
to make me sound more feminine. Oh gosh, can you
believe that? I can't believe that wild part. My mother
thought that was crazy. So she there was this whole
you know, I remember this whole thing. So she took
me out of that class. So there was some deep, deep,
deep awareness somewhere that she knew that was messed up.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
And thank thankfully, right, thankfully.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So you know, elementary school, junior high school, going through puberty,
it was a shit show, Rosie.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yes, not fun show, not fun, not fun.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And you know, this is all maybe a little too revealing,
but I know, you know, like when you played field
hockey and lacrosse and you know, these sports things you
had to wear skirts and stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was hell yeah, hell on earth.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yes, you know, so I always felt like I was
in a costume in somebody else's costume.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Now you know what, Murray, When I go to any
award show and they spackle me together and they make
me look in a way that I never feel comfortable
looking in my own world. If I in my own choices,
I never choose that, and I always feel like I'm
in drag when I'm at like I presented at the Oscars,
(12:47):
and I remember feeling, this is the most out of
body experience I have ever had in my You walk
down the line where people judge what you look like,
whether or not you're feminine enough, whether or not you
can work dress, and you know what, Murray, I cannot same. Yeah,
I just naturally don't have the ability. I remember once
(13:08):
I was at at an event with Marishka hargatea and
she came over and she said, oh, I mean, I
guess I'm busted, And I was like, you're what She's like,
I'm busted. I go for what she goes. Well, I
saw you last week at the opening of that theater
show and I was wearing the same dress, and Murray,
(13:28):
I was hysterical laughing that Marishka hargate would think I
would remember a dress at all. Like was such a
weird classon to me, like, I don't even see the dresses.
I don't even care about the dresses. They don't it's
ter be.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Burned in in the fireplace. They're gone.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, exactly, It's so true. It's uh, I don't know it.
It's just how you're born. And people took a long
time to get on board with that concept.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And Rose, let me ask you a question, Rosie, when
now you know, because we're talking about dress and stuff too, right, Yes,
And obviously you know I've been a fan of yours
since Star Search Showbiz. And you know I didn't cut
my hair until I was in New York, right, So
it took me, I would say, till nineteen ninety five
(14:21):
or ninety six to actually you know it was you know,
it went further and further up. I chopped it off
and no turning back in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Now you got your hair cut later, right.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Much later. In fact, I was doing a show HBO
show with Derek c and Franz the director and Mark
Ruffalo and he said to me, I know you can
do this part. I can see you in this part.
Will you cut off your hair? And I remember thinking
uh oh, and I was like, uh yeah, yeah, I
will cut off my hair. And so when we did it,
(14:55):
the hairdresser said to me, change your hair, change your life,
and you know what, they were right. I cut off
my hair and it was like I was freed to
be me that I didn't know I was waiting to be.
And sometimes people say to me, still, I liked you
better with long hair, I said, well, I didn't, you know,
(15:15):
I like the can't work address. I never knew what
to do with my hair. I don't know if you did,
Murray when you had that long Irish Catholic girl's hair.
I never could throw it in a message gun. It
was a disaster for me too. It was a disaster.
I couldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Sometimes I wish like, why didn't somebody, you know, from
the elder community pull us aside Rosie and help.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Us out right?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Well, what so we could do now to the younger kids?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And I hope that we do when kids come over
to me, well, my own child, I have a ten
year old who's non binary, and they told me about
a year ago that their stuffed animals were non binary.
And then as they turned ten, they said, you know,
I'm non binary too, I said, fantastic. You know, I'm like,
what exactly does that mean? And she says, it means
you're not a boy and you're not a girl, You're
(16:01):
something in between. I find it very comforting, and I
find it very much of an honor to be able
to raise this individual and support all of the beautiful Yeah,
it's beautiful to me too. And the fact that.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
She could even tell you, you know, like that's just
consider it.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Like, you know, we weren't get We not only did
we not have the language and the tools to explore
our own gender identity, we were told early on what
you can't be right. So there's no oh, hey Bob,
I think I'm gay or I think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That those discussions never even happened, right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So the fact that you have a ten year old
coming to you and saying that, and you know you're
not throwing her out, you're not yelling at her, you're
not telling her to go to confession, like you know,
you've broken.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
The cycle without a doubt, And.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's the beauty of the movement.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I did that. Did's the you know, did your mother
live long enough to see your success in the entertainment
industry or or was she confronted with your queerness and
how did she react when she was living?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Well, it's a long story, but there's a little heartbreaking
story in there.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Is she So I.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Was estranged from her and from my family since I
was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So when I went to New York, that was it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I was gone.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
It was too much and it wasn't healthy. So I left.
And when my father died, I went back. I you know,
eighteen years later, I went back to the funeral and
all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So then I re established contact with my mother.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
And you know, as much of a homophobic and transphobic
and right wing as she is.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
You know what show she loves?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Rosie?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Andy Cohen's Watch What Happens Live?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The gayest show on TV? Super gay? Come on? But
why do.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Straight suburban women watch Andy Cohen? Andy? I know him,
but you know they love him.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
They do. They love him, and they love all those
shows that he creates, which I can't seem to sit through.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Well, I toured with Countess Luanne so for a year
and that was a trip. But so the fact that
I was on Andy Cohen's show a couple of times
to me. My mother was like, oh, oh, you're on
Andy Cohen show.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I was like, what, Yeah, you've arrived. You've arrived, Marie.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, like I'm like a arrived I thought I was
a cul de sac.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Did you end up being having conversations with her about
this or about your queerness on the whole or just
the Andy that that was the moment Andy Cohen?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, you know, I never had any conversations with her
about it, And you know that that was to her
because she also had that kind of work ethic, like
you just work. All your value is if you worked,
if you had a job, right, right, And the fact
that I was an artist or an entertainer or a comedian,
it's like, well, that's not really a job. So if
you're on Andy Cohen, that means you have a job.
(18:54):
Or you know, it was validating to her that I
was on that show, which was mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So you know, when we got the somebody somewhere.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We want to say, let's take a pause, Let's take
a pause. You are fantastic on that show, and that
show is absolutely brilliant, and the cast is just so lovable,
and I feel like they're even though I know you guys.
But I feel like the characters are my friends. Like
I'll be driving in the car and I'll think, oh, Fred,
oh that's the show. That's no real life. That's how
(19:27):
good it is and how real it is. And so
congratulations to you and Bravo, thank you, You're welcome. But
go ahead when you come to that.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
We're very excited.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You know, we could shoot season three now, thanks, right,
that's coming. So yeah, So when we we Bridget got
the okay to do the pilot and we didn't get
the series order yet, so we shot the pilot and
then the pandemic happened, so then there's a huge pause,
and then eventually we got green lit to do series
(19:59):
first season, right, And at that time, my mother became
very ill and so this is this is crazy how
the universe works.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So about two weeks before the show season was.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
About to premiere, Okay, she really fell ill and she
had stage four lung cancer and she knew that I
was on this show, but that the release date kept
getting pushed back because of COVID and all this other stuff.
So it finally had a premiere date and you know,
everything's under lock and key at HBO. There's no links.
(20:37):
You know, it's like NDA's all kinds of stuff. And
my uncle called and said she's not gonna make it
to Friday, and the show was gonna debut on that
Sunday night. So I told Bridget this, and you know,
Bridge and I have very good friends, and I didn't
know she did this, but she went to the head
(20:59):
of HBO and said, I need a viewing link that
I can show in Murray's mother's hospice place, and the
nurse is gonna we want her to see episode one before.
So this was like a Wednesday, okay, So I wasn't there.
(21:20):
I had seen her like that last time, like a
couple of days before. So that Wednesday, okay, we got
the nurse, got the phone, got a private link from HBO,
showed her episode one and so you know, that was
the big choir practice scene and Fred and there was
a line in there that Mark Duplas had me improv
(21:45):
and I said, I'm not going to hit you, but
run into this and that's what my grandmother used to say. Okay,
very Italian line. So he said, improv a different line here,
and I said that. So the word on the street
is my mother when she heard that she knew it
was from her mother, right, and she started crying and
(22:09):
she was smiling and she you know, and this this
is you know, this is the stuff you know the movies, right,
she said the nurse that she was proud of me.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh honey. And then two days later she asked, yes,
so you know.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It's it's she did see it and for her having
a job and HBO and Sunday Night.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
On HBO, like you know that deal, big deal. Yeah,
right at the end, you know, it was validating, which
is mind blowing.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, what a gift, What a gift?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
And yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It was really something special. And I really appreciate HBO
and Bridget because it was. It just happened so quick.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
We'll be right back with more Murray Hill after this. Now,
(23:17):
you and Bridget I have been friends since the very
beginning of both your careers. Is it true that you
gave her her first gig on the stage in New
York or what's that story?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yes, I met Bridget as you know. You know, we've
seen each other in person quite a few times. I'm
pretty short. I'm big, but I'm short. Bridget is like
eight feet tall. She's so tall we're hilarious looking. She's
so goddamn tall. So the first day my friend introduced me,
she goes, oh, Bridget just moved to town. I was like,
oh Bridget, and he was like, she's a singer. I'm like, oh, singer,
(23:49):
what are you doing Saturday night? Come down at Avenue
at fifth Street. I'm doing a show at this place
called mo Pickens. You're on at ninet thirty. And she
shows up and you know, she newly in town, and
her her show outfit back then, Rosie was a corset
and panties.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I believe it, and I'm I believe it.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, And like she had she used to have
one of those like Deli plaid bags, you know, like
the dollar store bags.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
That was her showbag. Right, So she was a mess.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And you know, the second she hit stage, she had
that huge personality and my audience loved her, and then
we fell in love with each other and that was it.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So she was in my shows, then I was in
her shows.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Then you she did this, and then and then she
was doing pilots and I was doing stuff, and then
you know, she hung in there and she slowly, you know,
broke that glass ceiling.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
She certainly did. She invited some friends, and what a
beautiful thing. You know, you it's so amazing that you
hear of men doing that for each other sometimes, but
you don't always hear about women, uh, supporting each other
and in such a basic, familiar way, you know, a
forever kind of in show business. Now, I was lucky
(25:05):
in most of the things I did for the whole
first part of my acting career, I was directed by women.
So weird, right, it never happened. That's like, I know,
like every movie I'm getting, it's another woman directing, it's
another legendary woman. And and so I felt like so
Penny Marshall, Nora Ephron, Bronwin Hughes people that I just
(25:25):
was so overwhelmed to be able to work with and
to learn from, and and uh, you know how trippy
is that, you know that you get to meet this
young girl when you're just young and in the business,
and and here you are on this hit show, this
critically acclaimed beautiful morsel of humanity every Sunday on HBO,
(25:47):
and I just love it so much. And I love her.
Her sister, Tricia Mary Catherine Garrison, who I know from Broadway.
And I was so happy to see her because she
was roommate with Bridget all those years when they were
both like doing stuff at Joe's Pub and on Broadway
and off and and and they all came back together
(26:08):
as friends too. And I think the chemistry is so
good on that show that you can't fake it, Like
you can tell there's love there. And that's like what
you felt when you watched Mary Tyler Moore.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Wow, that's the greatest thing you could ever say. And
you know, we've we've all known each other. You know
that that apartment that Bridget and Mary Catherine livedd you know,
it was a ground floor apartment on the Upper West Side,
you know, with the air conditioning facing the street with
holes for little animals to come in it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
It was a shit, right, And you know I lived
way out in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So you know the thing that's cool about somebody somewhere
and that I give Bridget and HBO and of course
are esteemed leader Carolyn aronstrous there is you know, yeah,
they it's so real because we are real.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
They didn't get actors to play people like us, right,
and I think, you know, because none of us fit
the you know, Each one of us is like a
misfit in our own ways. Like I'm the short, chuvy
trans guy, you know, Jeff is the tall, skinny homo.
And bridgets, you know, all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Every bridget is everything, right, correct is everything?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
And an ally yes, you know, but we all of
us are very real people because we've had to deal
with a lot of adversity in our own lives.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Of course we can relate to everybody else survive.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, it does feel a little bit like the Land
of Misfit Toys, only with more joy. You know. The
toys were always the broken arm and crying. Remember they
were They were not happily, you know, living their lives
there on the Land of Misfit Toys. They were sad.
But you guys, I don't know the joy that comes
through that show. I can't even tell you. Do you
(27:57):
have time, because you know, you what do you do
ten episodes or eight? I think we do seven? Yeah,
it's crazy now its new ways they do everything. But
so you have time to do other things? Are you
still like touring and hosting and what are you doing
in that area of your life?
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I still host any kind of show. I love hosting.
I've done it forever. I did a game well not
a game show, a reality show last summer.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Oh I remember the Neil Patrick arat Yes, very cute.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, Drag Me to Dinner and you know, I got
a taste of the good life. And I know you
know this from your talk show. Yeah, but you know
on the HBO show, they don't have teleprapters.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Rosie right and Dragged.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Me to Dinner.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I had about five. It was a huge one in
the back. There was one on the camera, there was
one on the side. I mean, I was a pig
and shit. It was like my favorite.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
It was like the HBO is kind of like the
the high brow, the acting and all that stuff, and
then you know, the the Drag Me to Dinner is
the hosting.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And then I can you know, improv and be wild
and then go back on the script.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
So it's showbiz. I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah. So I hope to do more than more of both.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Of those things.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
You know. Yeah, are we doing more of the drag Queen,
come to Dinner, Drag Me to Dinner? Or are they
doing more of those shows? Or was it just that
I find out next week right out next week. Right, Yeah,
so good, that's that's fantastic. Who was it that you
looked up to? Acting wise when you were a kid,
when you were in Connecticut and you were watching the
TV and you were could you find representation at all
(29:38):
of yourself? Did you see anyone that you were like,
I kind of get their vibe? You know?
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Well, I mean there wasn't anybody that I saw like myself,
so I kind of you know how like gay men
have always attached themselves to devas, right, yeah, it's just
part of total culture.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, So you know I did.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I totally totally did, like Tina Turner, yes, and Ben
Midler in the forties, right, yes, And I was like
these are these are two powerful, strong women who did
whatever the fuck they wanted to do, totally massive personalities
and they broke the mold.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
So I didn't look at them as like a sexuality
or gender any of that stuff. I was just like, wow,
these are It was always women. I was like, oh,
it was incredible, like just mind blowing, right, you know,
So I so I did look up to them and
like Liza Minnelli of course, yes, And'try sand streisand yeah,
(30:38):
well her new book is underneath this laptop.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I was gonna say, you need four people to help
you carry it upstairs. It's it's a thousand ages and
it's something like forty eight hours of audio. Forty eight hours. Yeah,
I mean listen, the woman is a perfectionist and she
does it as she likes. And the's at eighty one
years old. Good for her, right, and.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
You know what it's You know, there isn't a more
successful woman in showbiz.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
You know, it's like all the different you know, verticals
that she's been in.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
But Rosie, you know, I gotta.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Tell you too, you were a huge influence on me.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
You got these kids got to remember you know, I
remember you from Star Search and I never looked at
you and like, my immediate thing to me when when
I saw you when I was younger, was it was like,
oh she's gay or lesbian.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It wasn't what struck me about you when I saw you.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I hadn't seen anybody like you on TV before, and
you were very brash and confident and you had you
have that same kind of thing, you know, that Vaudeville rhythm.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, exactly totally.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
You know, but you stoock out just the same way
that Bet Midler did you.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Know, Now you might you might not.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Have felt that, because I know you feel different sometimes
we feel different than what we're portraying, especially in show is.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
But you may not have felt that.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
But to those of us who didn't have anyone else
to look at on TV, you were on main street
TV successful, you were doing these comedy shows and tapings
and stuff, and you know, there wasn't anybody else like you, right,
And to me I saw you know, was like, that's
an individual, a unique, original person who's hilarious because comedy
(32:25):
is all nice. A man's a guy's world, you.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Know, yes, without a doubt, it's a guy's world. And
I was I'm a big fan of John Rivers right
right exactly. Thank you for saying that, Murray. That's so
kind of you and it's so sweet. And you know,
I don't think we ever can fully appreciate the effect
that we have on others as an entertainer, because no
matter how successful I ever became, I never, in my
(32:49):
mind was one of them the ones that I looked
up to from that Rondelayne bedroom with a mirror that said, Hollywood,
here I come. And that's what I I was dreaming
of all my life and then to have have achieved
it and to be sixty one and take a moment
and look back at everything and go, how did I
get here? And what has this journey been about? You know?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, and then there's somebody out there who's still gliding
that's ten years younger than you, has looked up to
you since you know Star Search.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Here was Star Search nineteen eighty four. I was twenty two.
Oh my god, can you believe that? I was twenty two?
Added David Cassidy haircut and the last the first time
I went on the.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Stage right a blazer.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
I had a blazer and they said to me I
had to wear pumps. So I please, I beg you.
I'm going to look for the clip and send it
to you. It's me in this willyware Gray men's suit
in pumps walking out to do my twenty seconds of
stand up comedy on Star Search. So you know, it's
funny the things you remember when you look at it
(33:56):
through a specific lens, you know, But listen, I think
that you're paving ways for so many in ways that
you don't even know. And for my kid, you know,
for my kid who you know, it goes on their
own journey, and I will be next to them whatever
they decide. But I would love for them to see
(34:16):
all kinds of people. And there are no rules, and
there is no place that you have to follow it
this way or end up with a body that looks
like this or be that or be this. As they
say to me, it means I'm not a girl and
I'm not a boy. Okay, I understand that, And that's okay,
And that's okay exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
And you know, Rosie, I think on that note, it's
you know, there's so many labels and gender identifications and
this and that and and I think, you know, because
I am older, you know, I also am like I
don't need I'm in a good place. I don't need
to identify myself in one way. Right, I'm kind of like,
(34:59):
you know, you're had year old kid, where it's like,
I'm I'm okay with who I am. It's everybody else
who needs the goddamn labels. So I'm okay with being like,
oh I don't I don't like to say, oh I'm Murray,
I'm at drag King of trans I just want to
be Murray. I just want to be like everybody else, right,
you know, yes, and I think comedy. And this is
what your comedy did for me is because I saw
(35:21):
you as a comedian first, and I laughed at your
jokes first. I related to you as a person, as
a human, you know what. And I'm like, oh, she's hilarious.
So it wasn't like, oh, that's an outcomic, that's a
leslie right over their closetive comic and all that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Bullshit, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I was like, no, this person is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
You got the talent and you're a complete original, and
you're like fuck you to the system.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, you know it's funny. I started doing stand up again,
just did one night at the comedy store, and you
know what, Murray, I was not very funny. I really was.
And I felt like I was one of those people
at their high school. Were you when you knew? So
I'll throw the football and then needs rotorcrof surgery the
next day. You know, you have to be doing it.
You have to stand up and do it every night.
(36:08):
And so I go this Saturday to do it again.
And then I'm going to decide if I'm going to
try to make a whole New Hour because uh, it's different.
It's some of the some of the people there said
to me after the show at the comedy store, I
didn't know you did stand up comedy. I was like, seriously,
I said, you had no idea it was a stand
up comic at the beginning of my career. Nope, no idea.
(36:31):
So it just goes to show you there's, you know,
a blank canvas everywhere you look, if you can look,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
And I think you know that the model back then
of like comedians, you're getting their own show, whether it
was a sitcom or a talk show.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't know if that happens as much.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
So everybody knew you know, you and Ellen you had
you were busting and pounding the comedy scene and you're
breaking through a total boys club totally. Then you got
a show, right, so you know, and that was insurmountable.
But you had to put all that time in to
even just.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Get up there a little bit.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So these kids, correct, they don't know it. They don't
know it.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Go do your show at Dynasty Typewriter.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Where's that that's in on the other side of town
in LA Because that's what's changed, Okay, this is what
changed since you started, since I started, is you know
there's all your big clubs, right the comedy store and
all those rise places and here comedy sell that stuff.
But now there's a whole alternative, less agro, less male
(37:39):
comedy environment and dynasty typewriter in La is the place
where you know the young kids are playing at. Maria
Bamford's playing, Bridget's playing, you know, Adam Sandler's doing a
couple of nights there. So it's it's you know, I
think you would maybe find a different vibe there that
(37:59):
was going to meet you where you are now.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I definitely need a different place, not to return to
the one I had to go to the light. I
had Maria on the show Bamford, and she was telling
me about these afternoon lunch comedy performances she does because
she's too tired at night, and I was like, that's
what I need. I need a lunchtime comedy club so
(38:24):
that I can come home and deal with my kid. Listen,
You're delightful. Thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Do you too, Rosie, You're the best.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
It's great to see you, and thank you for being
so honest, stick around everybody. We'll be back with comments
from you are beloved listeners. Okay, wasn't he funny? I
(39:01):
love Murray I did. I hope you enjoyed it and
he and bridget effort on that show and that you
got to watch It's Somebody Somewhere HBO Max. Okay, So
our episode with Alison Joseph's ninety nine point nine percent
of the voice memos were comments about thanking me and
Alison for having a very hard conversation. And here are
(39:22):
a couple that really represent what everybody was saying. And
I can't thank you enough for listening and sticking through
it and for all of your support. So we have
a voice memo now from Chris. Let's hear what Chris
has to say.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Hi, Rosie, this is Chris from Los Angeles. It's been
great getting to be reacquainted with you through the course
of this podcast. I love so many of the conversations
that you've had. They've been entertaining that maybe laugh, they
made me think. It's been a really, really great part
of my week, and so thank you very much. I
wanted to send a special thank you for the conversation
(39:59):
you just had with Alison Joseph's This was a tough one,
and I'm sure it was tough for you and.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Tough for Alison.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
But what I wanted to rather than offering an opinion
on the conversation, what I wanted to say was thank you.
It was so great to hear two confident, smart women
have a debate.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
A healthy, strong debate where.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Both of you stood firm in your perspectives and yet
we're so respectful of the other. And I just thought
it was a great exchange of ideas and I really
benefited from hearing of it, you know, having seen a
lot of the stuff that's going on in the Middle
East and not really knowing what to believe, what to feel,
feeling very confused about the whole situation, So that was
(40:46):
great to hear. And also considering the way men in
Congress have behaved, certainly in the last few weeks, where
it feels like discourse now in Congress is.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
On the level of a barroom every week.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
I'm not sure how much that actually accomplishes, and it
just seems to make us more divided and more base
in our communication. So, you know, hearing the two of
you have a strong, healthy debate, like This was really
instructive to me, and I wish that that's the way
debate could be today in America. It seems like we'd
(41:22):
get a lot more done anyway. So I just wanted
to say thank you, and I look forward to more conversations,
whether they're fun and light or whether they're really thoughtful
and passionate and uncomfortable like the one you were willing
to have with Allison.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
So thank you both. Well, thank you, Chris. That was
a beautiful message that you left. And you know, I
think both Alison and I have been getting mostly comments
just like that, and it was a difficult discussion to have,
but I knew from talking to her for the last
couple of years online. I knew what she was about
and who she was, and how she loves her family
(42:01):
and how she has strong convictions about her belief in
what it means to be Jewish in the world today,
and I have nothing but respect for her. I wanted
to make sure to invite someone to come and have
this discussion with me, someone like Alison, who I knew
was kind and respectful and intelligent and not looking for
(42:27):
a fight. You know, I think that that's you know,
when I saw that what you were referring to in
Congress about the two congressmen, like taking off his ring
to get in a fistfight with somebody about I mean,
I don't know. It used to be that was unheard
of for the US Congress, right, And we've fallen, Boy,
(42:47):
have we fallen in terms of being able to have
political discourse without violence. You know, so thank you, thank
you for that. And I want to thank Alison Joseph's again.
And you know, I'm hoping that we can continue to
have deep discussions when the situation in the world calls
(43:08):
for it. And you know that you guys will will
stick with me through the tough ones and through the fun,
light easy ones. And you know, life is a mixed
bag and you don't only get one side of anything,
and it's good to open up your perspectives and hear
other people's ideas. And that's something I say to myself
(43:28):
in a constant, constant way. I always think, when I
have these strong opinions, who asked you? You know, shut up, o'donald.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Nobody asked you.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
But I do have a need sometimes to speak. And
from having been in the public eye for so many years,
you kind of start to think it's your job, you know,
But I mean, I don't have a doctorate in midi studies,
so I wonder to myself why do I have such
strong opinions? But I'm glad I have a place to
(43:59):
put them in. It's right here onward. So thank you, Chris,
thank you so very much. I think we have one more.
Let's see what that is, Hi, Rosio o'donald.
Speaker 6 (44:09):
I hope you hear this message because I really wanted
to send you a very big hug today. I've just
listened to your podcast and I thought you sounded like
you needed a hug, So I want to send you
a hug. And you say, oh, I've only got a
little podcast. Well, I'm Irish living in France for almost
twenty years, and it's the highlight of my week. So
(44:29):
don't underestimate what you're doing, and don't underestimate the positivity
that you bring to people's lives and the ways you
help us see and understand things differently. With everything you're doing,
I really really appreciate it, and you deserve a giant hug.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
And from all your community, I know we love you
so much. And that's it.
Speaker 6 (44:50):
And yeah, I'm a mom to a little boy that
I adopted to, and here's the light of my life.
So I love hearing when you talk about Dakota and
your other kids and doing what you're doing. On word Rosie,
love you.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Bye, so sweet. I love your brogue. It's beautiful. Reminds
me of my grandmother, so wild Listen, thank you. I
did sort of need a hug. You know, it's scary
to voice your opinion when there's such insundiary remarks flying
here and there all over the media this way, that way,
(45:24):
and you know it's never to be right. It's to
get to better understanding of people who disagree with what
you're feeling and seeing. And you know I could have
used a hug, so thank you, But I will say this.
You know, Alison is very warm, and she's very she's
(45:48):
very smart, and I only have love and respect for her.
But I did feel anxious to not say the wrong thing,
to not trigger someone to stand by, you know, my
beliefs and disparage any other any other group, you know,
And it's hard to do that. Sometimes it's hard to
(46:08):
feel vulnerable. But it's so nice to hear the reaction
and that people were moved by it, and and some
people felt that they had a better understanding. And then
that's really the goal of this podcast and pretty much
every podcast, don't you think. Although some do try to incite,
you know, viral content, but we're not looking to do
(46:30):
that here. We're looking to have some healthy, fun conversations
and some deep subjects.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
When wre did so.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Thank you and kiss your baby for me. All right,
and we have one more. We have one more, and
guess who it is, our old friend Meryll coming back
for her third comment. I can't wait to hear it.
All right.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
I'm not gonna lie. That was that was difficult listening. Hi,
we need light, light, banter and the humor. Come on,
and everyone needs to just love one another. It's not
(47:11):
that difficult, not that difficult to be kind, smile, look,
help engage. You know. There's too much stuff that separates everyone.
And it's come on, we're so alike, you know, when
it comes down to it with this, we got the
(47:32):
same shit going on in our bodies. Come on, anyway,
you mentioned squirrels. I want to move on to lighter shit. Squirrels.
I'm in love with my squirrels. They're so happy to
see me.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Every day.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
I mean, it's funny anyway.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's all I just needed to say.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Let's let's lighten up and laugh more and love more.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
You know, life is short.
Speaker 4 (48:01):
Okay, it's Meryl and hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving.
Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
I just love Meryl right. Most of the other ones
were thank you for having the hard conversation. She's like, enough,
make it more funny. Well, I think Meryl's gonna enjoy
next week on Onward. You can join me for my
conversation with Annoyed Lemon. I know what you're thinking, Annoyed Lemon,
what is she talking about? Well, if you're not a TikToker,
you may not know who Annoyed Lemon is. And well
(48:35):
neither does anyone kind of because on TikTok she decided
to just be an anonymous, floating lemon with giant eyes
and lips and never give away her identity. She just
quips her opinions about life and does amazing book reviews.
She loves memoirs. She's a memoir queen and I love
(48:58):
her so much. Whenever I tune into her, and I
do every day I flip through, I find her, I stop.
She makes me laugh out loud, and I just thought
we would have a nice, fun, happy conversation with annoyed lemon.
It's next week on Onward with me, Rosie O'Donnell. Hey, everybody,
Happy Hanukah and peace.
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