October 17, 2023 • 49 mins
This week, join Rosie and her guest, artist Sophia B Hawkins, in a absolutely fantastical conversation.
Having met right after Sophie released her biggest hit, Damn I Wish I was your Lover; and Rosie was seen in her first movie, A League Of Their Own, they experienced a deep and magical connection like none other. Their long soulful friendship is on full tilt as they chat about fame, motherhood, protecting yourself and self love.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Well, hello, everybody, it is I Rosie O'Donnell, star of
Wide Awake. I know that's a movie you've never seen,
but I'm in it with Dana Delaney and with Dennis
Leary and it's a great film. By night Shyamalan before
he did all of his successful movies, and I play
(00:30):
a nun. So look for that if you want something
to watch that's not the news, because oh boy, is
their news the war when we're recording this is a
few days in and it's terrifying, all of it, absolutely
horrific and traumatizing to so many. And you know, here's
(00:57):
something I read that really I thought was succinct and perfect.
Palestinian people are not Hamas. Jewish people are not Israel.
Israel is a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Please
understand the difference. Both Palestinian and Jewish people deserve freedom,
(01:21):
self determination, and safety. Islamophobia and anti Semitism are unacceptable,
and you know that's that's the truth. And just the
horrors of this group Hamas. The brutality, the medieval like
(01:47):
debauchery is uh, well, it's terrifying, and that's what the
goal of that organization is. To end the Jewish people
and to end Israel, and it's very overwhelming, and we
(02:07):
all pray for peace and for some kind of a solution,
and of course for the return of the hostages. This
is going on in just a couple of days. Well,
we don't know what's going to happen between now and then.
It is Thursday, October twelfth when I'm recording this as
I am headed over to London. Folks, I'm headed over
(02:28):
to London, and I don't know what has happened in
the war since this moment. Ten thirty on October twelfth.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You know, I just pray for peace.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So I am flying to London to see Madonna's opening night,
you know, to have befriended her so many years ago
before I had children while doing that movie Lee their Own,
And think now, you know, at sixty one and sixty five,
we're still friends, and we still love each other, and
(03:08):
we're still there for each other. And that's you know, really,
that's all you need in life is to show up
for the people you love. I believe, and it matters,
you know, just like it matters when people show up
for you. So there you have it. We have a
wonderful show today. A close friend of mine and a
(03:34):
wonderful talent, A writer, a songwriter, a poet, a painter,
a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, Sophie B.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Hawkins.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And she had that huge hit in the nineties. Damn,
I wish I was your lover. And we met shortly
after that. And you know, you have profound loves in
your life, and I think for me this was one
of them. You know, we were both very young all
those years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But here she is.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
She's got a brand new album, she's got two beautiful children,
She's worked on herself and her life and is quite
introspective and quite captivating, I believe.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So take a listen. Here is my buddy, Sephie B. Hawkins.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Selphie Valentine Hawkins. How are you, Runs, How are you?
It's so good to see you and to know that
I have you trapped for one hour and I can
ask you anything you.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Can and you know all answer. I like that you say,
trapped for one hour, yeah, because I know you like
to do a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You're always like creating something, and you know I have
found that. You know, we've known each other how many years.
Let's get that out of the way.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Let's talk about when we met. Do you want to Yeah? Sure, yes,
I mean, well, I saw you. I was on tour
for tonguesen Tails. I was somewhere in the Midwest. I
went to see a league of their own and I
called Lori east Side and I said, you got to
go see a league of their own. Rosie o'donnald is
so fabulous. I love her so much. Then, how I
(05:30):
don't know who you invited me to your comedy show.
It was down the stairs somewhere in the West village, right.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
It was actually Caroline's comedy club. But you do walk
downstairs to get to the showroom. Yes, So then I
watched you and I thought you were the funniest thing ever. Well,
because I owe even now, I think you're the funniest
thing ever. You just have to say anything. I started
to laugh. And then you did a spoof on damn.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Remember you were squeezing your butt cheeks together, and you
had your butt facing the audience and you're like, how
does she get up there?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Damn?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And you would squeeze your cheeks. Do you remember that.
I don't remember that, No, but I believe you. Yes.
And then after the show we connected, and then we've
been connecting ever since in various ways.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And we had a long period where we were out
of each other's worlds for like a decade or so.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
It was horrible. It wasn't good for me either, I
have to tell me. And it wasn't really it wasn't
my desire. It was the forces around me. And I've
had to work through a lot of things like that
in my life, and I think a lot of people
do who come from these very controlled environments in childhood.
We they write it lots of things, they call it
lots of things.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Now, your childhood was the most magical childhood that I
and it was a difficult childhood, I would say. When
you introduced me to your world and I got to
know and love your sister and your brother and your
fantastical mother in this non conventional reality that you shared
(07:00):
on Central Park, it was a magical, creative time for me.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Wow, Rosie, that's amazing. I did feel it was magical,
and I feel I honored that in my lyrics and
was very devoted. You also says to other things in
my lyrics, and you pointed them out. You're the first
person to really do that. The birth of creativity is
sort of the darkness the struggles of humanity. So to
(07:25):
be free of convention often you wander into places that
are almost too and caive that you know no boundaries. Yes, so,
and you were a child, I was a child. I
was a child buddied wild in Manhattan, and so like
in a way, freedom has its price, yes, But you know,
interesting rose because the decade that we weren't in touch,
(07:48):
the minute that that ended, I was actually standing in
my house in Venice, and the relationship had ended. In
all the constructs of what I had been doing for
all those years building up were gone. And I had
my son, Dashaul, and he was four and a half,
and we were there alone in this house that we
had built, and I was looking out the window at
(08:10):
the leucalyptus tree, and I said, the gates are open,
the guards are gone. Why are you still here? And
then I whushed Dashol up, and I came back to Manhattan,
came to the Upperware side and put him in the
public school that my sister had sent her kids, and
reunited with my family. And I didn't know how that
(08:30):
was going to go, right, But that was the beginning
of my new era.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
It was a rebirth for you completely back to yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yes, it's true, Rose And in a way, the self
with the wisdom, like the self that was there, was
there but always fighting against something to maintain my equilibrium.
And now I'm the self not having to fight against anything,
and I am my equilibrium. I have this home, and
I have my children, and I'm still single but feeling
(09:00):
but there's no butt. I feel incredibly grounded and happy.
I think there's several times a day where I say
I love my life, and I say it to my children.
I love our life. Kids, do you live our life? Wow?
Wait till they get a little older. Then they'll start
telling you all the details.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I know your son, I got to know a little
Bitty's gorgeous. First of all, your daughter, I haven't really met.
I haven't met her, Yester, No, I would love to
meet her and have you meet Dakota. Also, we both
had a child at fifty. You gave birth, I adopted. Yes,
what kind of societal pressure did you feel about doing
(09:46):
it at that age or were you just did you
know your body could do it?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And onward? Yes, I knew my body could do it,
And I don't know why but I had a lot
of things happen. I'll sit down and I'll ask the
universe or my ancestors of goddesses and gods, whatever I'm asking,
what should I do. There was a moment where I said,
should I have a child? Another child? Should I have
(10:12):
this girl? I knew it was going to be a girl.
I had one embryo that I had frozen. And everyone said,
the chances of your frozen embryo that your froze twenty
years ago thawing and coming into a child's body is
almost nothing. And I said, I'll be quiet because I
know it's going to be a girl. But I had
to decide when I was really ready to be a parent.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Now isn't that knowing? Isn't that knowing something you've always had?
Sort of Yes, I think I've had that too inside
my life always. Yeh oh, no, thank this is going
to be true. So I have to do this because
I know it. Yes, Yeah, you were certain this was
a girl.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I was certain. And then so I sat in a
little shaft of light and because I had to either
go because they had already started to thaw the embryo,
I had to go into LA because they can't ship
an embryo from LA to New York. There's all sorts
of laws about that. I had to go and put
the embryo in me and have this child, or I
would say, no, I'm going to be the mother of Dashel,
(11:09):
which would have been honestly fine. So I wanted to
know the reason I should have another child. So I
sat down and I asked, and this voice came to me,
but it wasn't a voice with tone, it was words,
and she said, I will heal Dashel, because only a
child can truly understand a child. I said, okay, I'm
(11:32):
in you're coming.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And then when I was in La about to put
the embryo in me, I crouched down and I called
my sister, which was interesting because we had been estranged
for a long time. And I called her and I said,
should I have this little girl? And she said, go
for it.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
How do you think being a mother changed your world? Well,
this is interesting. It's a great question.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Should because I've always been myself with my children, and
I've always wanted to learn how to love them the
way that is best for them. So without thinking about it,
I guess if there was an ultimate way to teach
somebody something. They have to be passionate about it, which
I am passionate about being a mother, and then they
(12:21):
have to not think about what they're doing. They have
to only think of the thing that they're passionate about,
and it becomes sort of playful. So how it's changed
my world is it's taught me to be myself with
another person in the most pure way, never thinking of
what I should be doing for myself or I never
(12:43):
thinking should I protect myself, only thinking what should I
be doing for this person?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Like to serve you're serving another soul? Yes, right, And
that's not good.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
For me, and that's good for me, and it's not
maybe not good for everybody, but it works for me
in everything because I naturally have, like you pointed out,
a drive to always be creating. And in that tumultuous
drive can sometimes I can rea have it, I guess,
because I'm thinking of what I'm doing, what I want
(13:13):
to do, my goals, whatever. But then the children come
into it and I think, wait a minute, what's best
for this human being who I love so much, who
I couldn't bear to hurt. Unfortunately, we do hurt our
children and then that's the greatest lessons of all is
when we walk away, we go own. Man, did I
mess up? How am I gonna repair this?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Well, you know, I don't think I ever did that
for other people, but I do it daily with my children.
What a wonderful insight. But you know, you have to
cut yourself some slack too.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Growing up in a chaotic environment, and I would put
chaos there?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Would you put chaos of cool? So that that was
the food?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, that was the The entire meal was chaos. It
was all chaotic and and but to me so exotic, Yeah,
it was so exotic. Now, I grew up in as
you made fun of me when you first saw my own,
I was so me very suburban, right, I grew up
in like the heart of suburbia. And you were this
(14:14):
wild family in the middle of Central Park, like you
knew Central Park like the back of your hand. Your
family would take walks together through Central Park. It was
so artistic, it was so out of my reality that
I like fell in love with the whole lore of it,
you know. And only as I grew older, and then
(14:35):
we hadn't been in each other's lives for so long,
did I worry about what that really does to a
tiny kid, and how they're able to form the synapses
that were maybe not connected in their childhood in adulthood
and be able to kind of survive it.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Does that make sense? Yes, First of all, I want
to say to you that I always did feel that
I was too judgmental of when I would see the
picture on the fridge and I would say, you know whatever,
you all look so suburban. And I don't know why
I had such a fear of that. And I actually
do love normalcy, and in some ways people call me normal.
(15:17):
They go, You're so normal, But I think what they
mean is that I'm there's no frills, and you know,
I don't really love drama, but your family there wasn't
really a reason for me to be judgmental, and I
think that's my fear of seeing myself, which I've realized
really recently, like a deep fear of intimacy, and so
(15:39):
picking on you was a way to put up a wall.
I'm so sorry, honey. It's okay. We were young.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
First of all, we were very young, and we were
both you know, so in the launching of our careers.
You know, yes, yes, I had met you right before
or right as league came out and your record was
was out and Dan was a huge hit. And I
remember telling Marjorie Gross, I go that that woman is
(16:07):
captivating and she said I know her, and I was like,
you remember Marjorie Gross she died of cancer. Yes, I do, yes,
And she knew you through some friends and oh from
pet Place, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
She roommated with me on Print Street and that's or
she left and I moved in. That was the apartment
that I wrote as I lead made down it. That
was a fun house. Say, had like four cats and
the toilet was on a throne and it was just
very wild.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, well, well you were you had that big hit.
And I remember saying, as a joke, she said, oh,
she's she's you know, gay, or she's whatever the word
was that whatever the word is that we're using now.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And I was like, are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
She's like no, and she goes and I can introduce
you to her, and I was like done. But we
were so young and so on the brink of something,
you know, and yeah, and parenthood, motherhood was about to arrive,
and and you know, I had Parker first, And.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Remember going over to your house to see you.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You'd be painting, and yes, you'd toddle around, and then
you had your own blonde boy, which I thought was
so marvelous.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So much later than you, see, Rosie, when you had Parker,
I didn't even know that I would ever be a
parent and I hadn't even frozen my embryos yet. Wow.
I couldn't have conceived of being a parent when you
had Parker. That And you know, I didn't understand that
anything that you had started to do. And then it
(17:38):
wasn't till much later, till I was forty. I had
dash of forty four, right, And that also in a
way set me on my path to myself again from
being because what you're talking about, the way that I
grew up, there is a way in which a person
it's kind of hard to sort of say it and
(17:59):
us say it, but the kind of person who dissociates
to get through things, and you create all these other worlds.
And it's true, my money was the best at creating
the worlds and the best at sort of dissociating, creating
other personalities. She made it all fun and very creative
that she was a writer. So what a model a survival.
So she survived the most parendous things in childhood, you know,
(18:22):
sexual abuse, interests, all of that, alcoholism, you name it.
She survived it. But she did it with like this
of her day, the dashing creative feminist. You know, she
put band aids on her nipples instead of wearing a
brawl right, and I thought that was noble and cute.
(18:43):
And then she raised this in Manhattan with no sense
of like structure, or even though she understood structure. She
was disciplined, and I liked that about her, because she
wrote every day. She didn't sense so we needed any
protection or any kind of looking after. Life got harder
in my thirties in the sense of like, yes, I
(19:03):
had gotten to the point where I made my first
and second record a so successful, and of course we
all work like dobbs, that's a given. But then it
started to be that how do I keep my place
in the world and keep growing and changing as a
female artist. How do I not be repetitive? How do
I not go daddy, daddy, daddy? What should I do
and be a stronger and stronger woman in this world?
(19:26):
That was in a way turning against the female artist
for a while. The end of the nineties was difficult,
so you know, then I decided to get off Sony
and become an independent artist. But also I was looking
for protection. And the problem with looking for protection is
that you're always going to find someone who doesn't have
(19:47):
the slightest idea how to protect you, right, and in
fact it's going to tune out the opposite. So luckily
that I have grown out of that with a lot
of work, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And I I had to grow out of constantly being
the protector, yes, and I think in some ways I
still do it. And I have tremendous anxiety. When a
world issue comes up, it just takes me under the
undertow and I'm lost in the dark sea for a while.
You know, I am unable. I am forced to face
(20:22):
how little control we all have in life every time
that this happens, and it's like I grow and shed
a skin inside my soul or something, and it takes
me a while to get my equilibrium back. To tell
you the truth, when we have lived through our own
personal devastation, when a world devastation sits next to it,
(20:44):
you realize how fragile you really are. We'll be back
with more. Sophie be Hawkins right after this. How old
(21:11):
are your children now?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Fifteen? About Dashles fourteen? He'll be fifteen November seventeenth, and
Esther is eight and she just turned eight in July. Wow.
Great ages. Yeah, it actually really is great. Dashls at
the age where he wakes himself up, he makes his
own breakfast, he cooks all the time. He's a very
(21:33):
good chef and he does He's very disciplined, he's very organized,
and he's very soulful and sort of like a natural Buddhist.
And Esther's at the age where she's challenging everything, and
I really like it because she's funny about it. It's
all really nice for me, and then it helps in
(21:54):
a way. You know, it's really interesting too. I can
do I can write songs with my children around. I
never could ever work in front of anybody else. In
a way. I love that I write all the music myself,
but there was also this feeling that I didn't really
want to share that part of myself or open it up.
And then I noticed it with my children, I can
do anything, write songs for course, song, sing hey in
(22:17):
front of them, and there's not this again. There's not
this to me that there. They don't want anything from me.
They're not trying to eat me up for dinner, they're
not trying to capture something. And this has been something
that I've really struggled with in the world, having been famous,
and you seem to feast off fame and it's not
(22:38):
an insult, it's not even a judgment. It seems like
it feeds you. And fame was very frightening to me.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Because well it was frightening to me. It was frightening
to me in retrospect.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh, I see.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But while I was on the wave, I knew I
had to surf, So I stayed on that wave and
focused and did the wave. But when I got back
to the beach, all these years on the beach, Wow,
terrifying to be in the big waves, Like, I am
much more comfortable in my life at having the level
of notoriety that I do, where I can go to
the Beyonce concert and you know, people are just friendly
(23:12):
and I'm in a normal seat. I'm not in some VIP,
you know, and it's nice. It's nice to sort of
have have my life feel like mine again.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, I was so desperately afraid to lose that mind.
And you know what, also because rose the artists, I
think I haven't thought about it too much, but I
think the artist is the person who creates their work
and they own their work. And there are very few
things you can do on this earth for money that
you actually own what you do, that it is your work.
(23:46):
And so a lot of people can become extremely successful
or not, but they don't own what they do at
the end of the day. Right the artist does. And
I had some you know, I've always identified very strongly
with what I'm creating, and I wanted above all to
be the artist that I could be by the time
I die. I wanted to have fulfilled, to be the
(24:07):
greatest artist that I can be, and that it was
very hard for me to get identified with the world
because the world inside of me was the one that
was more important and I didn't want it chipped away
at or touched. And so I think one growth now
as an older person and as a mother, is realizing
(24:29):
that I can be permeable, that I can be that
even a stronger artist. I love my new songs. They're
different than the old songs, but they're just as strong
and beautiful and performing now is so natural. Where I
used to think, Oh, I have to be nervous and
you know, do calisthenics before I go on. Now I
just and myself, I walk on it, and I just
(24:51):
love that there's no difference between the Sophia on stage
and the Sofia who climbs back into bed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well that should be the goal of of every person,
because whether it's fame or not. You know, at work
people are different, and you know, but to have that
kind of merge of all the different facets and aspects
of yourself so that you're steady and calm in who
you are is the biggest gift you could give yourself,
(25:19):
you know.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And it's not easy to attain.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
It takes age and wisdom and work and for me
therapy and art and music and my therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I love mine too.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Really, do you have a good therapist. I have a
wonderful therapist, and my other one about a few years
five years, six years ago retired and I thought I'm
never going to find another one, and I did, and
her name is Ann and she's very very helpful to
me in my life and world. Not having a partner,
I need the help.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
You know. It's strangely enough, I've never really had a
partner with my children because even though I was in
the partnership and I had Dashel, that person didn't wasn't
really interesting and being a parent, And that's, you know,
in a big way why the relationship split up, probably
at the end of the day. So I sometimes wonder
(26:10):
if it would be easier or harder with a partner,
because some of the ease of not having a partner
is not fighting with somebody correct over things. And I
like coming to a consensus over time with my kids,
and I would, you know how I like my time
to make decisions. I would don't think it would be
easy for me to be the same mother if I
(26:35):
was working against someone. And even some very strong friends
I've had have been very difficult to have around because
they're so opinionated and so wrong. The thing is, every
time you have an opinion so wrong is the best
part of it, because if you if you have an
opinion about how a child should be, you're already wrong,
(26:56):
right right, because what does anyone know about what someone
else should be?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, you know, it's interesting self having Dakota, who has autism.
Everyone in my world feels as though they have the right,
even though they've never parented an autistic kid, to tell
me what's right and wrong about her behavior and how
she is. You know, my other children do it. I'm like, so,
do you think that I needed guidance when I was
(27:23):
doing this with you? Do you think I needed someone
telling me whether or not she should be allowed to
wear crocs?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I mean, you know, like to the some fancy, I'm like,
I don't really care what she wears as long as
she's they are comfortable. And then you know, calling them
the pronouns they prefer, they and them. My older kids like,
why are you doing that? She's too young to choose that.
I'm like, because she asked me to. That's why I'm doing.
If a child asked you something, that's it. And that's
(27:52):
already showing that. It's like, she's way beyond so many people,
you know. I think also the proof is in the putting.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I love old sayings, but now that I have an
almost fifteen year old and I can see how he's developed,
and I can say to myself, I don't want to
argue with people and say, you know, I was right
about all this stuff. But I do notice that I
was because I love this part of you. Tell me
(28:24):
why you were right? Tell well, because I see how
independent and calm he is. I see him making such
great decisions daily and not asking for anyone's opinion. He's
even the way he sets up his room, cleans his rum,
the choices he makes in what he wants to do
(28:45):
over the summer, all the things he does, they're so
first of all, beyond me. There's nothing that I could
have ever thought of, and the fact that they come
from him and that he does them and with such clarity. Seriously,
I'm amazed. And people said, you're too close to you
go no such thing, right. I agree, you shouldn't. You
(29:08):
shouldn't be reading him stories at eleven hang falling to
sleep next to him. And I always thought, you know,
he'll let me know, just like to go to he
will let me know when he's done with something. And
boy does he let me know in the most graceful way.
He just lets me know when he's onto something new
or done with something. And so that's what I mean.
What I say I'm right is that I see him
(29:29):
making phenomenon choices for himself. That's great. So, yes, it
really is.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
But you know, first of all, you got the genes,
and you got the environment, and then you get the
roll of the dice, right, you know, each one is different.
And I think what you've found is, UH is a
beautiful way to live in unison with two other equal humans.
That's what I see. That's what I see you doing. Yeah, yes,
and that it's very beautiful. So the way the way
(29:57):
you are in the world, the way that you perceive
life and live it is, UH remains inspiring to me.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Oh yeah, it always was.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
It always was, and and uh, I want you to
know that the new the new record that I just
just got is fantastic. And I love that I say
record because no kids even have a concept of that anymore.
But it is on Spotify and everywhere else. You get
the whole record on Spotify Free Myself and I love
(30:30):
that love Yourself song. I think it's so so wonderful.
So you yeah, which which joy is it?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well? You could tell. I went to a party. The
folks were five. Yeah, coconut cake d I called red wine.
Can't you imagine? I can imagine. Then I came home
and instead of saying I'm a that pig, and I
shouldn't have done that. I said the thought, like the
lyrics say, you would not believe the thoughts in my head,
Oh baby, love yourself. It literally happened, and it was
(31:02):
you know, it wasn't that, it was I am programmed
to love myself. Is that all those years of consciously
working on getting rid of the negativity and getting rid
of the dependency on everyone else's contrude, Well, finally the
thoughts came healthy and clear and they were there. And
(31:23):
that's what I want to say to everybody. It does work.
Every step you take towards freeing yourself, to love yourself,
to be yourself, it all works, and there will be
that moment. I had a moment. I was standing, I
was just about to dive into a pool. It was
about a week ago, and I said, my home, my
(31:45):
actual home, is my mind. So right, and so it's
one thing to always hear meditate you live inside yourself,
but it's another thing to actually realize that the contents
that the space in my mind, the way that I
feel in my mind, is actually my world. Every think
(32:07):
about it. So I was smiling as I almost dove
into this water, and I said, because my mind is
phenomenal for me, it's only good for me.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
But I was like, this is I wouldn't say only,
I wouldn't say only, well, but when you understand it best.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, yes, And then I said to myself, and the
tag line is I don't need a facelift because I'm
actually living in my mind, not my body, and the
facelift won't help my mind.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right, it might twist your mind because you end up
not looking like who you are what you got.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And then when people look at me, they won't see
my mind. They'll see either a bad or good facelift,
or they'll wonder whether I had one. They won't be
looking at me through my eyes, and they won't be
seeing my thoughts going into their head.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
And then I think, that's why I think for actresses,
you're taking away your instruments.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You are so right, it is still important. And I
and my son said debate. He said, if you ever
have a facelift, I will be so upset with you
and every friend you have who's approved of it, and
every friend you have who has a facelift. I don't
want to know about that.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
You raised a strong feminist boy, that's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yes, but can't you believe I had this concept that
the facelift is actually something that destroys your confidence and
that all women and men have to realize that you actually.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Are living in your mind, and when you get that,
you start really changing the way you do things and
think things.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
You know. What allowed me to get there is watching
my daughter, my ten year old. She They are in
their minds all the time. Sometimes I'll ask them a
question in the car when there's quiet, and I'll say,
are you excited about the second day of school this morning?
And they'll respond, I really don't feel like talking right now,
(34:10):
and I will say okay, And then, you know, no
qualifications for it, not I'm sorry, not what she thinks
and what's happening in her mind. Their mind is the
only thing that's important. Yes to them, Yes, yeah. The
(34:32):
new record is very revealing about your It's kind of
almost a breakup record.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Would you say?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Yes? Yes, it's a break about it? Yeah? And better
off without You pretty much says it.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
All right, it does, it does, and then the tagline
I hope you heal your heart. It's like realizing that
I'm realizing anybody realizes they're better off without somebody than
is huge. Yeah, then there's no reason to cry. There
was that moment where I was on the streets of
Manhattan and I had been, you know, upset, remembering this
(35:08):
and that and what happened to all my money and
what happened all this, what happened in my career. And
then suddenly I said, Sophie, why are you crying? You
could justice easily be laughing. None of that stuff ever
mattered to you, none of it right. In fact, you
probably wanted out of the relationship a long time ago.
(35:29):
You did, didn't you, Sophie, I asked myself, So why
are you sort of hanging on to this sad sack
thing of like I lost this and I lost that
and my son lost his other parent. Thank god, my
son lost his other parent.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Frankly, well, she didn't really want a parent though, that's
fat So could she really not?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
If you don't want to? And without and again without
judging it, without casting this versions, the cleanest thing is
to say, oh you don't, okay, we'll go by right,
but so you know, But so it's the all humans
we have. It's what they call hysterical, is historical. That's
(36:07):
what I've learned. So even though the breakup was actually
the best thing that could have happened, I was traumatized
to by being betrayed. You lied to my face, you're
still my happiness. And in the second verse, and then
you took my best friend to bed. All these things
are true. Everything I write in songs is true. What
I say outside of songs, who knows, but the songs
(36:29):
are the truth. You're so cute that you laugh at that,
But anyway, it's true. When I sing that song, I
say before the song, if you haven't experienced something like this,
you haven't lived yet. Because it's really great to be
able to separate. Anyway, I think I said it. I
(36:50):
think the song says it better than me. But that
moment I realized, I said, why are you crying about
things you never even cared about?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, it's so true, and that's so freedom. You know,
it's such freedom. I mean, I have, you know, a
couple of friends, and we have different feelings on what
fame is and whether or not it does feed you.
And I know that there are people who take it
so much more seriously than me. Then it's a very
(37:21):
hard kind of friendship to manage sometimes, you know, because
you know what it is is an illusion anyway, Right,
it's a it's projection, and it's people cast you in
the movie role that they want you to be, and
you know you don't have any control over like Hamilton,
who lives, who dies?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Who tells your story? Right?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
You got to live in the truth and know that
the rest of it you again have no control over.
We're back there, Rose, That's really interesting. It's an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
See, I don't actually hang out with famous people, and
it's not on purpose. I always feel like I'm not
famous enough for famous people won't really like me because
I'm not really in this scene. So I don't have
this discussion with anybody. And my kids always say I
(38:14):
if I don't know, they always think I'm just really
not successful. And that's okay too. I don't have this discussion.
But sometimes I feel like I should push myself to
be famous. That's what I'm trying to say, and that
was actually what pushed me to the realizing that I
don't have to. I'm living in my mind. I don't
have to be famous in my own mind. I just
have to be me and enjoy what I'm doing. That's
(38:36):
what This push, this fuel that you have to be
famous is a very big pressure.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Well, and it used to be that only entertainers felt this,
but now teenagers feel this because you're right and you
can get all of the perks of quote unquote celebrity.
The photo shoots on the beach. I mean, you're lucky
that your first child is the sun because by the
time that you know, the girls hit iPhone age, their
(39:04):
whole life is about the image they're creating. And I
think it's so damaging because we've seen through you know, history,
the toxic effects of fame, and people have talked about
it a lot. But yes, for it to be the
number one thing that teenagers want to be, a YouTube
influencer to be, you know, some made up image on
(39:25):
your TikTok, on your your wherever you're doing it. You know,
it's it's pretty intense. But listen self. It's great to
see you. I'm sorry I missed you and Judy Collins
the night of the hurricane earthquake. Yes, what did you
feel the earthquake? Because you were right there.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
We got out of the car to get the Starbucks
before we went to the theater and the earthquake happened
right there as we opened the door and be driven
to the hurricane to get to that place. Wow, that
was something. Now I think this is a of course,
it's going to happen a lot more.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I agreeviously, get ready because it's here. You know, it's terrifying. Listen,
I love you very much. I missed you those years
we didn't speak to each other. We're devoid of kind
of this kind of conversation and I've missed this. So
the record free myself Sophie B. Hawkins on Spotify or
wherever you get your tunes, and thank you for being here. Okay,
(40:20):
everybody stick around. We'll be back with questions from you
the Loyal Listener.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Did you enjoy that? I hope you did.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
We have some questions right now from you the Loyal Listener.
And I never hear these until they roll them. And
I'm always overwhelmed by the kindness of strangers. So you're
really strangers. You're sort of stranger friends your listeners out there.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
But here we go. Take a listen.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
Hey, Rosie, this is Andrew and I am reaching out
to you from Boston, Massachusetts. I am a huge fan
of yours. I have been since I was a kid
in the nineties watching your show every single day. My
question for you is, I've recently been watching YouTube clips
(41:29):
of Emmy Awards from the nineties, and I keep rewatching
the moment in nineteen ninety nine when Susan Lucci finally
won the Emmy after nineteen nominations, and you are very
prominent in that shot and in that moment as you're
(41:49):
sitting what looks right behind her or next to her,
And I cry every time I see this moment, and
the room just erupted in so much joy and it
was so moving. Could you kind of reflect on what
that moment was like? You looked very emotional and were crying,
(42:13):
but it just strikes me as such an iconic moment
in TV history. Susan Luci's amazing and to think she
was nominated nineteen times until she finally won, it's crazy. Anyway,
I just would love to hear you you kind of
reflect on that night. Love you love the podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Thanks well, Thank you, Andrew, sweet sweet, sweet of you
to leave that message. You know, I recently saw that
clip on TikTok too, and I got all choked up,
you know, I was raised on Long Island, and I
knew Susan Lucci lived on Long Island, and that was
like a huge thing that I used to drive around.
(42:58):
Jackie's grandmother lived in this same neighborhood as Susan Lucci,
so I would always drive around try to find Susan
Lucci's house. My nana loved all my children back when
it was like a Bibleish book opening done and no, no, no, no.
(43:18):
We watched it together and I've been watching it, you
know since I was a little girl. I grew up
really loving Erica Kine and everyone in daytime loved her.
She is the kindest, the sweetest, the I just think
she's fantastic and what career she has had, you know,
(43:40):
for so many people, so defining of our teen years
and you know for me my teen years and all
the way up until it went off the air, which
I'm still upset about. But that night I sat next
to her, and I had been there, you know, many
times the Emmys and she always lost and we were friendly.
(44:05):
You know, she did my show often. I was on
all my Children as her maid Naomi, and I just
adore her. So I was very moved when she won
now before at the commercial break before I leaned over
and I said, do you want me to hold your purse?
If you win? Hand me your purse, and she's like,
I'm not gonna win, Rosie. I'm like, you're gonna win,
(44:26):
Susan Lucci, And she won, and then she gave me
the purse. So I was just so happy for her
and so happy for the tsunami of applause that waved
over the whole crowd and smashed into her there on
the stage. And it was a beautiful, beautiful night and
one of the best moments of all the Emmy Awards
(44:48):
I've ever been to. So thank you, Andrew, thank you
very much. And we have time for one more listener.
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Rolet. This is John from West.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Harford, Connecticut, and I don't really have a question, but
I wanted to share some feedback on the podcast. When
I started listening to your podcast, I was really interested
to hear the interviews with your celebrity friends like Kathy
Griffin and Ricky Lake, and I thought they'd be fun
(45:23):
and entertaining, which they were. So when you had your
first interview with a non celebrity person, I almost didn't
listen and I think that person was Reality Winner, but
I started to listen and was really drawn into her
story in the interview. And then you had the weight
(45:46):
loss doctor, doctor Rosen as your guest, and I thought
the same thing. I thought, Oh, it's not a celebrity,
I'm not going to listen. I want something light. But
I started listening and so interested in what he had
to say. And then since then you've done like Marcy
Marie Simmons and of course Alexander Vinman and Lyel Menandez,
(46:11):
you know, who are well known but really not celebrities
but just well known because of their circumstances.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And I really enjoyed those.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
And what I'm finding is that I'm really enjoying these
non celebrity interviews. And I don't know whether anybody has
told you this yet, but you definitely have a different
energy in those interviews. You are I think, more inquisitive
and interested or inquisitive and interested in a different way
(46:45):
with what they have to say. And I actually love
that I'm learning things from those interviews. So although I
enjoy the celebrity friends interviews without a doubt, these others
have now become my favorites. So I just wanted to totally
encourage you to do more of them. And I want
(47:06):
to thank you Rosie for the podcast and all the
entertaining that you've done for all of us for these
many years. And I will be listening, and I wanted
to say it was fun seeing your big win on
Pyramid this week.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Thanks Rosie.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh John, you are you the most adorable I have
to say. You know, when we started the podcast, I
wasn't really sure what to do because I didn't really
listen to very many. I've listened to a couple, but
I'm not a devoted listener. I hadn't studied it, you know.
(47:46):
So when I got the podcast, I said, let's start
with my friends. You're right to notice there's a difference
when I interview someone like reality winner or Amy Nelson
or Alexander Vine. I feel so responsible to accurately reflect
(48:06):
the truth of their story and allow them to speak it.
That it's a different energy completely than when it's a
buddy and we're just kidden around. Or perhaps because their performers,
a bit of the performer in me comes out a
little more than it does in the interview with the
non famous person. But I agree, I am so thankful
(48:30):
that you took the time to listen when you didn't
think it was something interesting. And know that I will
never have a guest on that I'm not completely interested
in because I can't do that. Thank you for listening.
If you want to leave a message Onward Rosie at
gmail dot com, that's Onward Rosie at gmail dot com.
(48:51):
Make yourself a voice memo and then send it over
to us. And it's easier than it sounds. Try it
once and you'll get it. And thank you and Drew
and thank you John. I really do appreciate it. Next
week we have Angela Tucker. Angela Tucker has a new
book out called You Should be Grateful About Being a
Transracial Adoptee. It's a wonderful book. She's made a documentary
(49:15):
that I really really loved years ago, and we connected
a little bit on that one, and I'm so happy
to talk to her about her book and her experience
and her expertise. So take a listen next week Angela
Tucker right here on Onward
Well, hello, everybody, it is I Rosie O'Donnell, star of
Wide Awake. I know that's a movie you've never seen,
but I'm in it with Dana Delaney and with Dennis
Leary and it's a great film. By night Shyamalan before
he did all of his successful movies, and I play
(00:30):
a nun. So look for that if you want something
to watch that's not the news, because oh boy, is
their news the war when we're recording this is a
few days in and it's terrifying, all of it, absolutely
horrific and traumatizing to so many. And you know, here's
(00:57):
something I read that really I thought was succinct and perfect.
Palestinian people are not Hamas. Jewish people are not Israel.
Israel is a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Please
understand the difference. Both Palestinian and Jewish people deserve freedom,
(01:21):
self determination, and safety. Islamophobia and anti Semitism are unacceptable,
and you know that's that's the truth. And just the
horrors of this group Hamas. The brutality, the medieval like
(01:47):
debauchery is uh, well, it's terrifying, and that's what the
goal of that organization is. To end the Jewish people
and to end Israel, and it's very overwhelming, and we
(02:07):
all pray for peace and for some kind of a solution,
and of course for the return of the hostages. This
is going on in just a couple of days. Well,
we don't know what's going to happen between now and then.
It is Thursday, October twelfth when I'm recording this as
I am headed over to London. Folks, I'm headed over
(02:28):
to London, and I don't know what has happened in
the war since this moment. Ten thirty on October twelfth.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You know, I just pray for peace.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So I am flying to London to see Madonna's opening night,
you know, to have befriended her so many years ago
before I had children while doing that movie Lee their Own,
And think now, you know, at sixty one and sixty five,
we're still friends, and we still love each other, and
(03:08):
we're still there for each other. And that's you know, really,
that's all you need in life is to show up
for the people you love. I believe, and it matters,
you know, just like it matters when people show up
for you. So there you have it. We have a
wonderful show today. A close friend of mine and a
(03:34):
wonderful talent, A writer, a songwriter, a poet, a painter,
a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, Sophie B.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Hawkins.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And she had that huge hit in the nineties. Damn,
I wish I was your lover. And we met shortly
after that. And you know, you have profound loves in
your life, and I think for me this was one
of them. You know, we were both very young all
those years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But here she is.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
She's got a brand new album, she's got two beautiful children,
She's worked on herself and her life and is quite
introspective and quite captivating, I believe.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So take a listen. Here is my buddy, Sephie B. Hawkins.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Selphie Valentine Hawkins. How are you, Runs, How are you?
It's so good to see you and to know that
I have you trapped for one hour and I can
ask you anything you.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Can and you know all answer. I like that you say,
trapped for one hour, yeah, because I know you like
to do a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You're always like creating something, and you know I have
found that. You know, we've known each other how many years.
Let's get that out of the way.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Let's talk about when we met. Do you want to Yeah? Sure, yes,
I mean, well, I saw you. I was on tour
for tonguesen Tails. I was somewhere in the Midwest. I
went to see a league of their own and I
called Lori east Side and I said, you got to
go see a league of their own. Rosie o'donnald is
so fabulous. I love her so much. Then, how I
(05:30):
don't know who you invited me to your comedy show.
It was down the stairs somewhere in the West village, right.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
It was actually Caroline's comedy club. But you do walk
downstairs to get to the showroom. Yes, So then I
watched you and I thought you were the funniest thing ever. Well,
because I owe even now, I think you're the funniest
thing ever. You just have to say anything. I started
to laugh. And then you did a spoof on damn.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Remember you were squeezing your butt cheeks together, and you
had your butt facing the audience and you're like, how
does she get up there?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Damn?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And you would squeeze your cheeks. Do you remember that.
I don't remember that, No, but I believe you. Yes.
And then after the show we connected, and then we've
been connecting ever since in various ways.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And we had a long period where we were out
of each other's worlds for like a decade or so.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
It was horrible. It wasn't good for me either, I
have to tell me. And it wasn't really it wasn't
my desire. It was the forces around me. And I've
had to work through a lot of things like that
in my life, and I think a lot of people
do who come from these very controlled environments in childhood.
We they write it lots of things, they call it
lots of things.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Now, your childhood was the most magical childhood that I
and it was a difficult childhood, I would say. When
you introduced me to your world and I got to
know and love your sister and your brother and your
fantastical mother in this non conventional reality that you shared
(07:00):
on Central Park, it was a magical, creative time for me.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Wow, Rosie, that's amazing. I did feel it was magical,
and I feel I honored that in my lyrics and
was very devoted. You also says to other things in
my lyrics, and you pointed them out. You're the first
person to really do that. The birth of creativity is
sort of the darkness the struggles of humanity. So to
(07:25):
be free of convention often you wander into places that
are almost too and caive that you know no boundaries. Yes, so,
and you were a child, I was a child. I
was a child buddied wild in Manhattan, and so like
in a way, freedom has its price, yes, But you know,
interesting rose because the decade that we weren't in touch,
(07:48):
the minute that that ended, I was actually standing in
my house in Venice, and the relationship had ended. In
all the constructs of what I had been doing for
all those years building up were gone. And I had
my son, Dashaul, and he was four and a half,
and we were there alone in this house that we
had built, and I was looking out the window at
(08:10):
the leucalyptus tree, and I said, the gates are open,
the guards are gone. Why are you still here? And
then I whushed Dashol up, and I came back to Manhattan,
came to the Upperware side and put him in the
public school that my sister had sent her kids, and
reunited with my family. And I didn't know how that
(08:30):
was going to go, right, But that was the beginning
of my new era.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
It was a rebirth for you completely back to yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yes, it's true, Rose And in a way, the self
with the wisdom, like the self that was there, was
there but always fighting against something to maintain my equilibrium.
And now I'm the self not having to fight against anything,
and I am my equilibrium. I have this home, and
I have my children, and I'm still single but feeling
(09:00):
but there's no butt. I feel incredibly grounded and happy.
I think there's several times a day where I say
I love my life, and I say it to my children.
I love our life. Kids, do you live our life? Wow?
Wait till they get a little older. Then they'll start
telling you all the details.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I know your son, I got to know a little
Bitty's gorgeous. First of all, your daughter, I haven't really met.
I haven't met her, Yester, No, I would love to
meet her and have you meet Dakota. Also, we both
had a child at fifty. You gave birth, I adopted. Yes,
what kind of societal pressure did you feel about doing
(09:46):
it at that age or were you just did you
know your body could do it?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And onward? Yes, I knew my body could do it,
And I don't know why but I had a lot
of things happen. I'll sit down and I'll ask the
universe or my ancestors of goddesses and gods, whatever I'm asking,
what should I do. There was a moment where I said,
should I have a child? Another child? Should I have
(10:12):
this girl? I knew it was going to be a girl.
I had one embryo that I had frozen. And everyone said,
the chances of your frozen embryo that your froze twenty
years ago thawing and coming into a child's body is
almost nothing. And I said, I'll be quiet because I
know it's going to be a girl. But I had
to decide when I was really ready to be a parent.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Now isn't that knowing? Isn't that knowing something you've always had?
Sort of Yes, I think I've had that too inside
my life always. Yeh oh, no, thank this is going
to be true. So I have to do this because
I know it. Yes, Yeah, you were certain this was
a girl.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I was certain. And then so I sat in a
little shaft of light and because I had to either
go because they had already started to thaw the embryo,
I had to go into LA because they can't ship
an embryo from LA to New York. There's all sorts
of laws about that. I had to go and put
the embryo in me and have this child, or I
would say, no, I'm going to be the mother of Dashel,
(11:09):
which would have been honestly fine. So I wanted to
know the reason I should have another child. So I
sat down and I asked, and this voice came to me,
but it wasn't a voice with tone, it was words,
and she said, I will heal Dashel, because only a
child can truly understand a child. I said, okay, I'm
(11:32):
in you're coming.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And then when I was in La about to put
the embryo in me, I crouched down and I called
my sister, which was interesting because we had been estranged
for a long time. And I called her and I said,
should I have this little girl? And she said, go
for it.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
How do you think being a mother changed your world? Well,
this is interesting. It's a great question.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Should because I've always been myself with my children, and
I've always wanted to learn how to love them the
way that is best for them. So without thinking about it,
I guess if there was an ultimate way to teach
somebody something. They have to be passionate about it, which
I am passionate about being a mother, and then they
(12:21):
have to not think about what they're doing. They have
to only think of the thing that they're passionate about,
and it becomes sort of playful. So how it's changed
my world is it's taught me to be myself with
another person in the most pure way, never thinking of
what I should be doing for myself or I never
(12:43):
thinking should I protect myself, only thinking what should I
be doing for this person?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Like to serve you're serving another soul? Yes, right, And
that's not good.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
For me, and that's good for me, and it's not
maybe not good for everybody, but it works for me
in everything because I naturally have, like you pointed out,
a drive to always be creating. And in that tumultuous
drive can sometimes I can rea have it, I guess,
because I'm thinking of what I'm doing, what I want
(13:13):
to do, my goals, whatever. But then the children come
into it and I think, wait a minute, what's best
for this human being who I love so much, who
I couldn't bear to hurt. Unfortunately, we do hurt our
children and then that's the greatest lessons of all is
when we walk away, we go own. Man, did I
mess up? How am I gonna repair this?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Well, you know, I don't think I ever did that
for other people, but I do it daily with my children.
What a wonderful insight. But you know, you have to
cut yourself some slack too.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Growing up in a chaotic environment, and I would put
chaos there?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Would you put chaos of cool? So that that was
the food?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, that was the The entire meal was chaos. It
was all chaotic and and but to me so exotic, Yeah,
it was so exotic. Now, I grew up in as
you made fun of me when you first saw my own,
I was so me very suburban, right, I grew up
in like the heart of suburbia. And you were this
(14:14):
wild family in the middle of Central Park, like you
knew Central Park like the back of your hand. Your
family would take walks together through Central Park. It was
so artistic, it was so out of my reality that
I like fell in love with the whole lore of it,
you know. And only as I grew older, and then
(14:35):
we hadn't been in each other's lives for so long,
did I worry about what that really does to a
tiny kid, and how they're able to form the synapses
that were maybe not connected in their childhood in adulthood
and be able to kind of survive it.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Does that make sense? Yes, First of all, I want
to say to you that I always did feel that
I was too judgmental of when I would see the
picture on the fridge and I would say, you know whatever,
you all look so suburban. And I don't know why
I had such a fear of that. And I actually
do love normalcy, and in some ways people call me normal.
(15:17):
They go, You're so normal, But I think what they
mean is that I'm there's no frills, and you know,
I don't really love drama, but your family there wasn't
really a reason for me to be judgmental, and I
think that's my fear of seeing myself, which I've realized
really recently, like a deep fear of intimacy, and so
(15:39):
picking on you was a way to put up a wall.
I'm so sorry, honey. It's okay. We were young.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
First of all, we were very young, and we were
both you know, so in the launching of our careers.
You know, yes, yes, I had met you right before
or right as league came out and your record was
was out and Dan was a huge hit. And I
remember telling Marjorie Gross, I go that that woman is
(16:07):
captivating and she said I know her, and I was like,
you remember Marjorie Gross she died of cancer. Yes, I do, yes,
And she knew you through some friends and oh from
pet Place, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
She roommated with me on Print Street and that's or
she left and I moved in. That was the apartment
that I wrote as I lead made down it. That
was a fun house. Say, had like four cats and
the toilet was on a throne and it was just
very wild.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, well, well you were you had that big hit.
And I remember saying, as a joke, she said, oh,
she's she's you know, gay, or she's whatever the word
was that whatever the word is that we're using now.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And I was like, are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
She's like no, and she goes and I can introduce
you to her, and I was like done. But we
were so young and so on the brink of something,
you know, and yeah, and parenthood, motherhood was about to arrive,
and and you know, I had Parker first, And.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Remember going over to your house to see you.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You'd be painting, and yes, you'd toddle around, and then
you had your own blonde boy, which I thought was
so marvelous.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So much later than you, see, Rosie, when you had Parker,
I didn't even know that I would ever be a
parent and I hadn't even frozen my embryos yet. Wow.
I couldn't have conceived of being a parent when you
had Parker. That And you know, I didn't understand that
anything that you had started to do. And then it
(17:38):
wasn't till much later, till I was forty. I had
dash of forty four, right, And that also in a
way set me on my path to myself again from
being because what you're talking about, the way that I
grew up, there is a way in which a person
it's kind of hard to sort of say it and
(17:59):
us say it, but the kind of person who dissociates
to get through things, and you create all these other worlds.
And it's true, my money was the best at creating
the worlds and the best at sort of dissociating, creating
other personalities. She made it all fun and very creative
that she was a writer. So what a model a survival.
So she survived the most parendous things in childhood, you know,
(18:22):
sexual abuse, interests, all of that, alcoholism, you name it.
She survived it. But she did it with like this
of her day, the dashing creative feminist. You know, she
put band aids on her nipples instead of wearing a
brawl right, and I thought that was noble and cute.
(18:43):
And then she raised this in Manhattan with no sense
of like structure, or even though she understood structure. She
was disciplined, and I liked that about her, because she
wrote every day. She didn't sense so we needed any
protection or any kind of looking after. Life got harder
in my thirties in the sense of like, yes, I
(19:03):
had gotten to the point where I made my first
and second record a so successful, and of course we
all work like dobbs, that's a given. But then it
started to be that how do I keep my place
in the world and keep growing and changing as a
female artist. How do I not be repetitive? How do
I not go daddy, daddy, daddy? What should I do
and be a stronger and stronger woman in this world?
(19:26):
That was in a way turning against the female artist
for a while. The end of the nineties was difficult,
so you know, then I decided to get off Sony
and become an independent artist. But also I was looking
for protection. And the problem with looking for protection is
that you're always going to find someone who doesn't have
(19:47):
the slightest idea how to protect you, right, and in
fact it's going to tune out the opposite. So luckily
that I have grown out of that with a lot
of work, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And I I had to grow out of constantly being
the protector, yes, and I think in some ways I
still do it. And I have tremendous anxiety. When a
world issue comes up, it just takes me under the
undertow and I'm lost in the dark sea for a while.
You know, I am unable. I am forced to face
(20:22):
how little control we all have in life every time
that this happens, and it's like I grow and shed
a skin inside my soul or something, and it takes
me a while to get my equilibrium back. To tell
you the truth, when we have lived through our own
personal devastation, when a world devastation sits next to it,
(20:44):
you realize how fragile you really are. We'll be back
with more. Sophie be Hawkins right after this. How old
(21:11):
are your children now?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Fifteen? About Dashles fourteen? He'll be fifteen November seventeenth, and
Esther is eight and she just turned eight in July. Wow.
Great ages. Yeah, it actually really is great. Dashls at
the age where he wakes himself up, he makes his
own breakfast, he cooks all the time. He's a very
(21:33):
good chef and he does He's very disciplined, he's very organized,
and he's very soulful and sort of like a natural Buddhist.
And Esther's at the age where she's challenging everything, and
I really like it because she's funny about it. It's
all really nice for me, and then it helps in
(21:54):
a way. You know, it's really interesting too. I can
do I can write songs with my children around. I
never could ever work in front of anybody else. In
a way. I love that I write all the music myself,
but there was also this feeling that I didn't really
want to share that part of myself or open it up.
And then I noticed it with my children, I can
do anything, write songs for course, song, sing hey in
(22:17):
front of them, and there's not this again. There's not
this to me that there. They don't want anything from me.
They're not trying to eat me up for dinner, they're
not trying to capture something. And this has been something
that I've really struggled with in the world, having been famous,
and you seem to feast off fame and it's not
(22:38):
an insult, it's not even a judgment. It seems like
it feeds you. And fame was very frightening to me.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Because well it was frightening to me. It was frightening
to me in retrospect.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh, I see.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But while I was on the wave, I knew I
had to surf, So I stayed on that wave and
focused and did the wave. But when I got back
to the beach, all these years on the beach, Wow,
terrifying to be in the big waves, Like, I am
much more comfortable in my life at having the level
of notoriety that I do, where I can go to
the Beyonce concert and you know, people are just friendly
(23:12):
and I'm in a normal seat. I'm not in some VIP,
you know, and it's nice. It's nice to sort of
have have my life feel like mine again.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, I was so desperately afraid to lose that mind.
And you know what, also because rose the artists, I
think I haven't thought about it too much, but I
think the artist is the person who creates their work
and they own their work. And there are very few
things you can do on this earth for money that
you actually own what you do, that it is your work.
(23:46):
And so a lot of people can become extremely successful
or not, but they don't own what they do at
the end of the day. Right the artist does. And
I had some you know, I've always identified very strongly
with what I'm creating, and I wanted above all to
be the artist that I could be by the time
I die. I wanted to have fulfilled, to be the
(24:07):
greatest artist that I can be, and that it was
very hard for me to get identified with the world
because the world inside of me was the one that
was more important and I didn't want it chipped away
at or touched. And so I think one growth now
as an older person and as a mother, is realizing
(24:29):
that I can be permeable, that I can be that
even a stronger artist. I love my new songs. They're
different than the old songs, but they're just as strong
and beautiful and performing now is so natural. Where I
used to think, Oh, I have to be nervous and
you know, do calisthenics before I go on. Now I
just and myself, I walk on it, and I just
(24:51):
love that there's no difference between the Sophia on stage
and the Sofia who climbs back into bed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well that should be the goal of of every person,
because whether it's fame or not. You know, at work
people are different, and you know, but to have that
kind of merge of all the different facets and aspects
of yourself so that you're steady and calm in who
you are is the biggest gift you could give yourself,
(25:19):
you know.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And it's not easy to attain.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
It takes age and wisdom and work and for me
therapy and art and music and my therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I love mine too.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Really, do you have a good therapist. I have a
wonderful therapist, and my other one about a few years
five years, six years ago retired and I thought I'm
never going to find another one, and I did, and
her name is Ann and she's very very helpful to
me in my life and world. Not having a partner,
I need the help.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
You know. It's strangely enough, I've never really had a
partner with my children because even though I was in
the partnership and I had Dashel, that person didn't wasn't
really interesting and being a parent, And that's, you know,
in a big way why the relationship split up, probably
at the end of the day. So I sometimes wonder
(26:10):
if it would be easier or harder with a partner,
because some of the ease of not having a partner
is not fighting with somebody correct over things. And I
like coming to a consensus over time with my kids,
and I would, you know how I like my time
to make decisions. I would don't think it would be
easy for me to be the same mother if I
(26:35):
was working against someone. And even some very strong friends
I've had have been very difficult to have around because
they're so opinionated and so wrong. The thing is, every
time you have an opinion so wrong is the best
part of it, because if you if you have an
opinion about how a child should be, you're already wrong,
(26:56):
right right, because what does anyone know about what someone
else should be?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, you know, it's interesting self having Dakota, who has autism.
Everyone in my world feels as though they have the right,
even though they've never parented an autistic kid, to tell
me what's right and wrong about her behavior and how
she is. You know, my other children do it. I'm like, so,
do you think that I needed guidance when I was
(27:23):
doing this with you? Do you think I needed someone
telling me whether or not she should be allowed to
wear crocs?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I mean, you know, like to the some fancy, I'm like,
I don't really care what she wears as long as
she's they are comfortable. And then you know, calling them
the pronouns they prefer, they and them. My older kids like,
why are you doing that? She's too young to choose that.
I'm like, because she asked me to. That's why I'm doing.
If a child asked you something, that's it. And that's
(27:52):
already showing that. It's like, she's way beyond so many people,
you know. I think also the proof is in the putting.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I love old sayings, but now that I have an
almost fifteen year old and I can see how he's developed,
and I can say to myself, I don't want to
argue with people and say, you know, I was right
about all this stuff. But I do notice that I
was because I love this part of you. Tell me
(28:24):
why you were right? Tell well, because I see how
independent and calm he is. I see him making such
great decisions daily and not asking for anyone's opinion. He's
even the way he sets up his room, cleans his rum,
the choices he makes in what he wants to do
(28:45):
over the summer, all the things he does, they're so
first of all, beyond me. There's nothing that I could
have ever thought of, and the fact that they come
from him and that he does them and with such clarity. Seriously,
I'm amazed. And people said, you're too close to you
go no such thing, right. I agree, you shouldn't. You
(29:08):
shouldn't be reading him stories at eleven hang falling to
sleep next to him. And I always thought, you know,
he'll let me know, just like to go to he
will let me know when he's done with something. And
boy does he let me know in the most graceful way.
He just lets me know when he's onto something new
or done with something. And so that's what I mean.
What I say I'm right is that I see him
(29:29):
making phenomenon choices for himself. That's great. So, yes, it
really is.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
But you know, first of all, you got the genes,
and you got the environment, and then you get the
roll of the dice, right, you know, each one is different.
And I think what you've found is, UH is a
beautiful way to live in unison with two other equal humans.
That's what I see. That's what I see you doing. Yeah, yes,
and that it's very beautiful. So the way the way
(29:57):
you are in the world, the way that you perceive
life and live it is, UH remains inspiring to me.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Oh yeah, it always was.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
It always was, and and uh, I want you to
know that the new the new record that I just
just got is fantastic. And I love that I say
record because no kids even have a concept of that anymore.
But it is on Spotify and everywhere else. You get
the whole record on Spotify Free Myself and I love
(30:30):
that love Yourself song. I think it's so so wonderful.
So you yeah, which which joy is it?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well? You could tell. I went to a party. The
folks were five. Yeah, coconut cake d I called red wine.
Can't you imagine? I can imagine. Then I came home
and instead of saying I'm a that pig, and I
shouldn't have done that. I said the thought, like the
lyrics say, you would not believe the thoughts in my head,
Oh baby, love yourself. It literally happened, and it was
(31:02):
you know, it wasn't that, it was I am programmed
to love myself. Is that all those years of consciously
working on getting rid of the negativity and getting rid
of the dependency on everyone else's contrude, Well, finally the
thoughts came healthy and clear and they were there. And
(31:23):
that's what I want to say to everybody. It does work.
Every step you take towards freeing yourself, to love yourself,
to be yourself, it all works, and there will be
that moment. I had a moment. I was standing, I
was just about to dive into a pool. It was
about a week ago, and I said, my home, my
(31:45):
actual home, is my mind. So right, and so it's
one thing to always hear meditate you live inside yourself,
but it's another thing to actually realize that the contents
that the space in my mind, the way that I
feel in my mind, is actually my world. Every think
(32:07):
about it. So I was smiling as I almost dove
into this water, and I said, because my mind is
phenomenal for me, it's only good for me.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
But I was like, this is I wouldn't say only,
I wouldn't say only, well, but when you understand it best.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, yes, And then I said to myself, and the
tag line is I don't need a facelift because I'm
actually living in my mind, not my body, and the
facelift won't help my mind.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right, it might twist your mind because you end up
not looking like who you are what you got.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And then when people look at me, they won't see
my mind. They'll see either a bad or good facelift,
or they'll wonder whether I had one. They won't be
looking at me through my eyes, and they won't be
seeing my thoughts going into their head.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
And then I think, that's why I think for actresses,
you're taking away your instruments.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You are so right, it is still important. And I
and my son said debate. He said, if you ever
have a facelift, I will be so upset with you
and every friend you have who's approved of it, and
every friend you have who has a facelift. I don't
want to know about that.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
You raised a strong feminist boy, that's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yes, but can't you believe I had this concept that
the facelift is actually something that destroys your confidence and
that all women and men have to realize that you actually.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Are living in your mind, and when you get that,
you start really changing the way you do things and
think things.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
You know. What allowed me to get there is watching
my daughter, my ten year old. She They are in
their minds all the time. Sometimes I'll ask them a
question in the car when there's quiet, and I'll say,
are you excited about the second day of school this morning?
And they'll respond, I really don't feel like talking right now,
(34:10):
and I will say okay, And then, you know, no
qualifications for it, not I'm sorry, not what she thinks
and what's happening in her mind. Their mind is the
only thing that's important. Yes to them, Yes, yeah. The
(34:32):
new record is very revealing about your It's kind of
almost a breakup record.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Would you say?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Yes? Yes, it's a break about it? Yeah? And better
off without You pretty much says it.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
All right, it does, it does, and then the tagline
I hope you heal your heart. It's like realizing that
I'm realizing anybody realizes they're better off without somebody than
is huge. Yeah, then there's no reason to cry. There
was that moment where I was on the streets of
Manhattan and I had been, you know, upset, remembering this
(35:08):
and that and what happened to all my money and
what happened all this, what happened in my career. And
then suddenly I said, Sophie, why are you crying? You
could justice easily be laughing. None of that stuff ever
mattered to you, none of it right. In fact, you
probably wanted out of the relationship a long time ago.
(35:29):
You did, didn't you, Sophie, I asked myself, So why
are you sort of hanging on to this sad sack
thing of like I lost this and I lost that
and my son lost his other parent. Thank god, my
son lost his other parent.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Frankly, well, she didn't really want a parent though, that's
fat So could she really not?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
If you don't want to? And without and again without
judging it, without casting this versions, the cleanest thing is
to say, oh you don't, okay, we'll go by right,
but so you know, But so it's the all humans
we have. It's what they call hysterical, is historical. That's
(36:07):
what I've learned. So even though the breakup was actually
the best thing that could have happened, I was traumatized
to by being betrayed. You lied to my face, you're
still my happiness. And in the second verse, and then
you took my best friend to bed. All these things
are true. Everything I write in songs is true. What
I say outside of songs, who knows, but the songs
(36:29):
are the truth. You're so cute that you laugh at that,
But anyway, it's true. When I sing that song, I
say before the song, if you haven't experienced something like this,
you haven't lived yet. Because it's really great to be
able to separate. Anyway, I think I said it. I
(36:50):
think the song says it better than me. But that
moment I realized, I said, why are you crying about
things you never even cared about?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, it's so true, and that's so freedom. You know,
it's such freedom. I mean, I have, you know, a
couple of friends, and we have different feelings on what
fame is and whether or not it does feed you.
And I know that there are people who take it
so much more seriously than me. Then it's a very
(37:21):
hard kind of friendship to manage sometimes, you know, because
you know what it is is an illusion anyway, Right,
it's a it's projection, and it's people cast you in
the movie role that they want you to be, and
you know you don't have any control over like Hamilton,
who lives, who dies?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Who tells your story? Right?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
You got to live in the truth and know that
the rest of it you again have no control over.
We're back there, Rose, That's really interesting. It's an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
See, I don't actually hang out with famous people, and
it's not on purpose. I always feel like I'm not
famous enough for famous people won't really like me because
I'm not really in this scene. So I don't have
this discussion with anybody. And my kids always say I
(38:14):
if I don't know, they always think I'm just really
not successful. And that's okay too. I don't have this discussion.
But sometimes I feel like I should push myself to
be famous. That's what I'm trying to say, and that
was actually what pushed me to the realizing that I
don't have to. I'm living in my mind. I don't
have to be famous in my own mind. I just
have to be me and enjoy what I'm doing. That's
(38:36):
what This push, this fuel that you have to be
famous is a very big pressure.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Well, and it used to be that only entertainers felt this,
but now teenagers feel this because you're right and you
can get all of the perks of quote unquote celebrity.
The photo shoots on the beach. I mean, you're lucky
that your first child is the sun because by the
time that you know, the girls hit iPhone age, their
(39:04):
whole life is about the image they're creating. And I
think it's so damaging because we've seen through you know, history,
the toxic effects of fame, and people have talked about
it a lot. But yes, for it to be the
number one thing that teenagers want to be, a YouTube
influencer to be, you know, some made up image on
(39:25):
your TikTok, on your your wherever you're doing it. You know,
it's it's pretty intense. But listen self. It's great to
see you. I'm sorry I missed you and Judy Collins
the night of the hurricane earthquake. Yes, what did you
feel the earthquake? Because you were right there.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
We got out of the car to get the Starbucks
before we went to the theater and the earthquake happened
right there as we opened the door and be driven
to the hurricane to get to that place. Wow, that
was something. Now I think this is a of course,
it's going to happen a lot more.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I agreeviously, get ready because it's here. You know, it's terrifying. Listen,
I love you very much. I missed you those years
we didn't speak to each other. We're devoid of kind
of this kind of conversation and I've missed this. So
the record free myself Sophie B. Hawkins on Spotify or
wherever you get your tunes, and thank you for being here. Okay,
(40:20):
everybody stick around. We'll be back with questions from you
the Loyal Listener.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Did you enjoy that? I hope you did.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
We have some questions right now from you the Loyal Listener.
And I never hear these until they roll them. And
I'm always overwhelmed by the kindness of strangers. So you're
really strangers. You're sort of stranger friends your listeners out there.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
But here we go. Take a listen.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
Hey, Rosie, this is Andrew and I am reaching out
to you from Boston, Massachusetts. I am a huge fan
of yours. I have been since I was a kid
in the nineties watching your show every single day. My
question for you is, I've recently been watching YouTube clips
(41:29):
of Emmy Awards from the nineties, and I keep rewatching
the moment in nineteen ninety nine when Susan Lucci finally
won the Emmy after nineteen nominations, and you are very
prominent in that shot and in that moment as you're
(41:49):
sitting what looks right behind her or next to her,
And I cry every time I see this moment, and
the room just erupted in so much joy and it
was so moving. Could you kind of reflect on what
that moment was like? You looked very emotional and were crying,
(42:13):
but it just strikes me as such an iconic moment
in TV history. Susan Luci's amazing and to think she
was nominated nineteen times until she finally won, it's crazy. Anyway,
I just would love to hear you you kind of
reflect on that night. Love you love the podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Thanks well, Thank you, Andrew, sweet sweet, sweet of you
to leave that message. You know, I recently saw that
clip on TikTok too, and I got all choked up,
you know, I was raised on Long Island, and I
knew Susan Lucci lived on Long Island, and that was
like a huge thing that I used to drive around.
(42:58):
Jackie's grandmother lived in this same neighborhood as Susan Lucci,
so I would always drive around try to find Susan
Lucci's house. My nana loved all my children back when
it was like a Bibleish book opening done and no, no, no, no.
(43:18):
We watched it together and I've been watching it, you
know since I was a little girl. I grew up
really loving Erica Kine and everyone in daytime loved her.
She is the kindest, the sweetest, the I just think
she's fantastic and what career she has had, you know,
(43:40):
for so many people, so defining of our teen years
and you know for me my teen years and all
the way up until it went off the air, which
I'm still upset about. But that night I sat next
to her, and I had been there, you know, many
times the Emmys and she always lost and we were friendly.
(44:05):
You know, she did my show often. I was on
all my Children as her maid Naomi, and I just
adore her. So I was very moved when she won
now before at the commercial break before I leaned over
and I said, do you want me to hold your purse?
If you win? Hand me your purse, and she's like,
I'm not gonna win, Rosie. I'm like, you're gonna win,
(44:26):
Susan Lucci, And she won, and then she gave me
the purse. So I was just so happy for her
and so happy for the tsunami of applause that waved
over the whole crowd and smashed into her there on
the stage. And it was a beautiful, beautiful night and
one of the best moments of all the Emmy Awards
(44:48):
I've ever been to. So thank you, Andrew, thank you
very much. And we have time for one more listener.
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Rolet. This is John from West.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Harford, Connecticut, and I don't really have a question, but
I wanted to share some feedback on the podcast. When
I started listening to your podcast, I was really interested
to hear the interviews with your celebrity friends like Kathy
Griffin and Ricky Lake, and I thought they'd be fun
(45:23):
and entertaining, which they were. So when you had your
first interview with a non celebrity person, I almost didn't
listen and I think that person was Reality Winner, but
I started to listen and was really drawn into her
story in the interview. And then you had the weight
(45:46):
loss doctor, doctor Rosen as your guest, and I thought
the same thing. I thought, Oh, it's not a celebrity,
I'm not going to listen. I want something light. But
I started listening and so interested in what he had
to say. And then since then you've done like Marcy
Marie Simmons and of course Alexander Vinman and Lyel Menandez,
(46:11):
you know, who are well known but really not celebrities
but just well known because of their circumstances.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And I really enjoyed those.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
And what I'm finding is that I'm really enjoying these
non celebrity interviews. And I don't know whether anybody has
told you this yet, but you definitely have a different
energy in those interviews. You are I think, more inquisitive
and interested or inquisitive and interested in a different way
(46:45):
with what they have to say. And I actually love
that I'm learning things from those interviews. So although I
enjoy the celebrity friends interviews without a doubt, these others
have now become my favorites. So I just wanted to totally
encourage you to do more of them. And I want
(47:06):
to thank you Rosie for the podcast and all the
entertaining that you've done for all of us for these
many years. And I will be listening, and I wanted
to say it was fun seeing your big win on
Pyramid this week.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Thanks Rosie.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh John, you are you the most adorable I have
to say. You know, when we started the podcast, I
wasn't really sure what to do because I didn't really
listen to very many. I've listened to a couple, but
I'm not a devoted listener. I hadn't studied it, you know.
(47:46):
So when I got the podcast, I said, let's start
with my friends. You're right to notice there's a difference
when I interview someone like reality winner or Amy Nelson
or Alexander Vine. I feel so responsible to accurately reflect
(48:06):
the truth of their story and allow them to speak it.
That it's a different energy completely than when it's a
buddy and we're just kidden around. Or perhaps because their performers,
a bit of the performer in me comes out a
little more than it does in the interview with the
non famous person. But I agree, I am so thankful
(48:30):
that you took the time to listen when you didn't
think it was something interesting. And know that I will
never have a guest on that I'm not completely interested
in because I can't do that. Thank you for listening.
If you want to leave a message Onward Rosie at
gmail dot com, that's Onward Rosie at gmail dot com.
(48:51):
Make yourself a voice memo and then send it over
to us. And it's easier than it sounds. Try it
once and you'll get it. And thank you and Drew
and thank you John. I really do appreciate it. Next
week we have Angela Tucker. Angela Tucker has a new
book out called You Should be Grateful About Being a
Transracial Adoptee. It's a wonderful book. She's made a documentary
(49:15):
that I really really loved years ago, and we connected
a little bit on that one, and I'm so happy
to talk to her about her book and her experience
and her expertise. So take a listen next week Angela
Tucker right here on Onward
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com