October 29, 2022 • 53 mins
New York Giants defensive coordinator Don "Wink" Martindale talks to The Volume's Mike Silver to discuss his team's incredible 6-1 start to the 2022 season and the culture change behind it, then previews the Giants' challenging Week 8 matchup against the Seattle Seahawks. Martindale tells us about his professional career which started in trucking and later included teaching high school economics, and the scheme that got him his first coaching job. He discusses his unique relationship with legendary Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis, why he let Marcus Peters call the defensive plays in a preseason game, how the media misused his words to offend Joe Burrow, and what's actually happening in a very questionable-looking video of Giants cornerback Darnay Holmes. #volume #Herd
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Well, the NFL coaching world is full of
phonies and psychos and frauds, and every once in a
while you get a real one. Uh. And that is
the way I would describe this guy. Uh, Don Wink
(00:25):
Martindale has a very clearly defined coaching philosophy and you
see it out there every week. He blitz Belichick during
the preseason, he blitz and Aaron Rodgers, Hailberry and London. Uh.
He blitz one of his favorite guys, Lamar Jackson with
the game on the line a couple of weeks ago. Uh.
(00:45):
Everybody calls him Wink, but he is in my phone
as Don, Hello, sir, how we do just wonderful? Um? Yeah,
you you're not shy about what you are and what
you do, right, you are You're gonna blitz people. Well,
I think that you know, each game is different and
(01:06):
in the timing of pressures are you know, different for
each game? I think that you know, if if I
drive home from a game and say I wish I
had a rush more than three, or you know when
max coverage or whatever it is, uh, that's not a
fun drive home for me. I'm more of a let's
(01:26):
go for it and you know, everybody execute and put
it on me if it doesn't work. And we've had
a lot of success doing it that way. And I
say that. And then last week we played Jacksonville and
the last three plays we were three man rush. But
it want us a game. It was a situational football
decision that we made. And we made that on Thursday.
You know, we have win the game Thursdays. If we
(01:47):
got in that situation, here's what we would call. And
we're stuck with those calls, and it wanted for us.
You are six and one in New York. Now, you
did incredible work in Baltimore the previous four seasons, but
it's Baltimore. You've got some attention. I is it different
to New York when you are six and one? A
surprising six and one? Yeah, I believe. So. I think
(02:09):
one of the biggest things is because there's eight million
people here. So it is uh, you know, you're you're
definitely uh, you know, right in the center of you know,
the greatest city in the world. And and and people
are excited and as you know, there's a lot of
personality out here on the East Coast in New York,
and uh, it's it's just it's it's going really well
right now. Have you and Laura hit the town at all?
(02:31):
You know, that's the tough part is right now, it's
it's like I'm a mercenary because she's still back in
Maryland with the you know, the kids and the dogs
and and and and the grand baby and she but
when when she comes up, you know, you know, we'll
we'll go out. But you know, it's just like any
place else, you have your restaurant you really like. So
instead of you know, the worst thing is about New
(02:55):
York is my diet because whatever food you like, you
and I were talking about sushi earlier, whatever food you like,
they got the best kind of it. So but you know,
we have our spots we like to go to it.
It's it's it's a lot of fun. That's awesome. I
wonder are you getting recognized at all, you know, in
Manhattan or in Jersey. And it's pretty crazy. It's just
(03:16):
like I said, there's you know, my wife said that
because it's like there's more people come up to you
now than before. I say, because there's more people, it
makes sense to me anyway, Yeah, I love it. In fact,
it's gonna be hard when you and I go out
when I come out there, because between all the people
mobbing me, no doubt, and you now it's because you
(03:39):
still have your bodyguards with you though, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you saw my bodyguards at the combine. They're not exactly
the strongest dudes in the world. One of the works
for ESPN and he uh, you know, I don't think
he could bench press a microphone. But he's a good mascot.
Though he is a good mascot. He's a hype man
for sure. All Right, the Giants were nineteen and forty
(04:02):
six the past four seasons. While you were in Baltimore,
Joe Shane came in, Um, Brian day ball you um,
and you did some roster flushing and tweaked it. Um.
But honestly, are you guys like a little bit ahead
of schedule in terms of turning it around? You know
(04:23):
in this league, you know, if you don't stay humble,
it'll it'll smack you around. So we definitely have our
humility with us. I think that the biggest thing that
stands out is just the organization alignment of of like
you already said, you know, starting with the Marion Tis
family and then Joe and and Dave's Dave's is just
(04:44):
he's he's my kind of guy, and he's just the
culture that that you know, and we all have something
to do with it. But the culture that he's built
here is it makes it a great place to come
to work and and and the players have really you know,
bought in and and help change the culture themselves. Uh.
And it's it's just a different style, I believe from
(05:05):
the past. I wasn't here in the past, so but
it just seems that way from what I've heard from
players and other people, you know, from a cafeteria or wherever.
You know. It's just it's it's a different it's different environment. Yeah,
and I know you weren't there. And we always hear
the word culture change, but it's hard tangibly to know
what that is just based on what you've heard. What, Yeah,
(05:27):
what's kind of what I've been the bedrocks, I think,
And I think the culture change has a lot to
do with people's personality and and people's confidence in themselves,
which pours into the players and and and for them
to know that it's not the end of the world,
(05:48):
you know, Like I'm speaking defensively, now if if someone
makes a mistake, you know, especially you know when you're
an O, T, A. S. And and well even in
the games, because when they come over the sideline, um,
you know, it was like the world was in him
before and now I'm just like, hey, your's two plays.
We know you mess it up. You don't have to
say my bad, you know, we know alright, so just
(06:09):
just go go make it up, you O's two plays.
And and the guys have really brought into that philosophy
and uh, you know, they're starting to communicate more and
it's it's just you just gotta just keep stacking great
practices and in great plays and great days, and then
it turns into weeks and then who knows where it's
gonna end up. They're not running gassers if they mess up, No,
(06:35):
not not your style. Huh. You you will tell them though,
you will, you will not sugarcoat it. Yeah, you know
a lot of that, you know, when you're saying, I
understand what you're saying. Tangible with culture, uh, a lot
of you know, changing the culture is being honest and
once they know that. You know, if if if a
player knows that you care about them, they'll bust their
(06:57):
tail for you and you know, and for themselves and
for their teammates. And you know that's that's definitely our
style of being honest with them up front. And I'll
say it from the whole defense too. I have you know,
we always have those keep it real meetings where I say,
here's where we're at, here's what we need to do better.
You know, here's the good you know, the good things,
and and uh, you know, they all appreciate it and respected.
(07:22):
And I'm sure you'll point out when you mess up
to today. Oh yeah, no doubt. Yeah, that's what I'm
saying to all of us, you know, any anything, Yeah,
I have no problem doing that. Well, you have practiced,
because I'm sure Laura points out to you all the
time we're not doing well, no doubt. Um. I saw
the Seahawks in Week two. I covered the Fort in
As Seahawks game. The Fourtis beat him twenty seven seven.
(07:44):
The seven was a block field goal, so they basically
shut them out. And I thought to myself, Okay, um,
you know, Russell Wilson's gone, they're kind of rebuilding. You know.
The offense is is not where it needs to be.
Since that game, they've had the number one productive offense
in the league. They're averaging thirty one point eight points
a game, and now you've got to go play him
(08:06):
at their place. Uh. Is that is that stressful? Oh? Yeah,
of course it is. I mean, it's it's gonna be
a great challenge. The receiving corps is outstanding fast. Uh.
You know the running back, the rookie running back. I
saw him hanging Michigan State played Michigan last year, and
(08:26):
he's really starting to blossoms as an NFL running back. Uh.
But uh, and Gino is playing really well. And if
I were, if I weren't playing against him, might say
I'm happy for him, But after this weekend, I'll be
happy for him because but he is, he's playing really well,
and they've done a nice job. Well. Gino is a
(08:48):
cool story. He kind of hunk tough and got written off,
as he said, and and you know, he's really making
a lot of this opportunity. We'll get into your journey
because it's it's been super interesting. Um. You know you
I talk every year about coaches who aren't getting their
(09:09):
doe in the coaching cycle. A lot of times their
minorities and that's a big issue. But I talked about
you a lot too, just because the production has been
so glaringly good and for whatever reason, you know, I
feel like you haven't gotten as much traction in certain cycles.
You did interview with the Giants, you know, before the season,
(09:32):
and I know you really enjoyed that experience and they
they really came away impressed. Um did that kind of
stick with you when you were looking around, Uh you
know after this last season. Oh yeah, you know there
there's there were some choices, you know, possible choices to
be made. Um. You know this is a place that
you know, I really I really like, you know, the
(09:54):
interview process with them. Um, you know, with the history
of the organization. Uh, it's it's been everything I thought
it would be in even more. But uh, I just
I think that, you know, getting back to Gino what
we were talking about, I was asked a similar question
in my press conferences, and he said, you ever seen
another quarterback, you know, blossom this latest career like that?
(10:17):
And I said, really, Kurt Warner, you know, I said,
I don't know if they're gonna make a movie on Gino,
but I mean, really that's similar to what was you know,
you had who Kurt replaced there and in at that
time St. Louis, you know, and and Gina is doing
the same thing in Seattle. See, this is why, this
(10:38):
is why I love you. Another reason you're on my podcast.
We're talking and you just managed to get a plug
in for a movie that was made about my book
with Kurt twenty one years after we wrote it. By
the way, now that is friendship for that, you know.
And so anyone who hasn't seen American Underdog, you know
(10:58):
you'll see my day way up had the opening credits
because it's all me. It's my it's really my doing,
not Kurts. But yeah know that, you know it's it's
true because that is a you know, I am a
sucker for the underdog story anyway. Uh, you know it's
funny my son, when the movie came out, our book
(11:19):
was called All Things Possible back in two thousand and
my son set and me, Dad, do you wish that
the movie had been called All Things Possible? And I go, no,
I wish the book had been called American Underdog. That's
a cooler title. And you know, we kind of laughed,
but I felt, you know, I love the underdog story
so much that any time I see like a little
(11:42):
trace of it, I go nuts, like Taylor Heineke in
Washington last year and again this year, and so um,
I do get into that. So it's it's a good
jumping off point. Let's talk about your story, because um,
you literally you're you're from Ohio. You literally went to
college at a place called Defiance. Yes, yes, Harvard of Northwest, Ohio.
(12:09):
And you you know, you were probably like a lot
of kids in Ohio, you know, a high school football
star who really was into it and you know, working
class upbringing and and you know, now you're like a big,
big apple star in a fancy studio, but back then
more of a more of a humble beginning. You know,
(12:32):
you you ended up in coaching, but you know, you
you did something first. What was your first job college?
My my grandfather, my uncle, and my dad were all
in the trucking business. So of course they wanted me
to get into the trucking business. So I left school
(12:52):
a year or early. He said, I'm just gonna get
in the trucking business because I got hurt playing football.
I hated every day. I went into that job, and
I knew that I wanted to coach. I wanted to
be a high school teacher and coach just like my
high school teacher coach. My high school coach who was
still coaching, uh a matter of fact, has a playoff
(13:13):
game to night. Um. He coached me ever since I
was in third grade and just made a was a
major impact in my life and a lot of my style.
It comes from him because he talked to us just
as honest as I talked to our players all the time.
Because you knew that he cared. And you know, if
(13:36):
you have somebody that cares, you know, what else do
you need? And to clarify, you were not playing varsity
football in third grade? He was no, no, no, no.
He's coached me ever since I was in third grade.
He came up the ranks too. Yeah. And when you
went into the trucking business, what was your day to
day like, Oh, I was driving a truck. I was.
(13:58):
I was doing pickups and delay every's. I started four
thirty in the morning, I wouldn't get home until six
thirty at night. I drive from Dayton, Ohio, up to
the Detroit the Chrysler Plan up Detroit, drop all that
stuff off, wait for them to load something back on.
That was always fun and then go do pick ups
through through Michigan before I went back down the date.
(14:19):
So it was it was not very It was not
entertaining at all. It was not enjoyable at all. I'm
sure changing flats in the winter is a great feeling. Yeah,
no doubt. We're getting stuck in a snowstorm. Were you
one of the CB radio guys? Oh yeah, back then? Yeah,
did you have a name? I forget what it was
now I did, but I forget what I really do.
(14:42):
Forget what it was, and it wasn't wink. No, and
for you young people, wink. Martindale very famous, kind of
cheesy game show host over the years. Um you are
no relation though I would watch you host a game
show for sure. No, no no relation. But um, name stuck. Yeah,
(15:04):
I know it's good. I mean there is an actress
Margot Martindale that I've noticed in recent years. So that's
my cousin for real, as far as everyone knows. Yeah,
that's cool. No, it's not. I just hopefully it's you.
It's your it's your de facto cousins. So okay, So
(15:25):
the name Martindale, we've established big in the trucking business
in Ohio. Um, do you like, how did they prep
you for that? Did they give you, like your first
cup of black coffee when you're like six six years old? Oh,
there's no preparation for that, no preparation for that. Both
(15:45):
my uncle and my dad have passed, but God love them.
They they've met well and any truck stop showers like,
did you have to do that whole lifestyle? No? I was.
I was never overnight. No. Okay, well, well that's good
and uh and you know I have met your wonderful
wife Laura, and she's great. Um, you clearly overachieved. How
(16:08):
did you manage to get that done back in your
early days? Really, she chased me, Mike. I could see that.
I mean, I think anyone who's looking at the screen
right now, I'm just kidding, honey, I'm just kidding. I'm
just kidding. They see two guys right now who were
clearly our beautiful wives chased us. I mean, I just
(16:29):
don't think there's any no doubt, no doubt. I hope
neither one of them are listening. Um, I just it
was one of those things. I was dating one of
her friends. Uh, she went to the rich school, and
I went to the poor school. And I was dating
one of her friends, and then I met her and
we did well. I liked her. She didn't like me
(16:50):
for good for good reason. But it was one of
those things that we just kept talking and then we
went out and uh I married her when she was
years old. I was twenty two and she's twenty. Wow.
And you know, that's one of the tough parts you
were talking about being up there in New York, is
this is the first time in my coaching career. You know,
(17:12):
we've been married thirty seven years. It's the first time
my coaching career that we haven't been together, you know,
every day. And that's that's tough. It's the best way
to explain. It's like every every game is in away game,
you know, until she comes up here. It's it's it's
a relaxer. You have a beautiful, beautiful place in Maryland
where the dogs can run around, you can drink amazing
(17:34):
red wine out on the on the deck. Although if
you when you drive up to visit, you might you
know your you know, your bravery is tested when those
dogs come out to great jef But yeah, I know
I can understand why she would want to hang there
and you know obviously, but yeah, that's gotta be tough.
(17:57):
You guys have been through so much together. You know
what kind of acrifices has she had to make as
a coach's wife. Well, I think we've moved and I
want to say eighteen times. Whoa uh, you know where
the whole family moved and then you know, we were
in Baltimore for ten years, so that was like Maryland's
(18:19):
like home to my kids because that's where we were
at the longest. It was usually three years go to
go to a better job, three years, go to a
better job. And uh, you know, like when we were Denver,
we moved three times. We were there for three years.
We moved three times in three years because one place
where we were renting, the guy wasn't making the house payment,
so they foreclosed on us. We had moved. But it's
(18:43):
all turned out really well, that's awesome. When you were
working at the University of Cincinnati, Um, weren't you making
some like non livable wage at the time. Yeah, that
that is there. There was. There was two things that
were pivotal in my career. One is when I was
a high school teacher and coach. I really enjoyed it.
(19:05):
I was living my dream. And then I said I
want to coach college football. Well, the way to get
into college football's work summer camps. While at that time
I was a big Blue Holtz fan, so I would
write a letter, you know, to coach Holts and and
say I want to work in football camp. Well, I
didn't realize that you had to have recruits as a
(19:25):
high school coach. Then they bring you up to work
the camp, you bring the recruits. I didn't realize how
that worked. So there was two years that I got
turned down, and the third year I told Laura I said, hey, look,
they said I'm I'm gonna be working the Notre Dame camp,
which they turned me down again. But I just went
out there and I met skip Holtz going in about
(19:48):
five thirty in the morning in South Bend. He's, hey, coach,
what can I do for you? Said, well, I'm here
to work football camp. He said, come on in. So
he's looking through his list of coaches and he says,
I'm sorry, coach, I don't have your name on the list.
I said, that's okay, I'll volunteer because no, you won't,
I'll pay you. And after that I worked there three
more years and Skip and I, you know, became really
(20:11):
good friends. Um and he and his wife Jennifer had
us up guest you know, for games and all that stuff.
And then he got the job at the University of
Connecticut and calls me up says, I want you to
be my outside linebacker coach. I said, great, I'm there.
So I resigned for my teaching position. I'm packing up
my car and it's a snowstorm. I remember, just like
(20:34):
it was yesterday, and my daughter, I believe was four
at the time, and uh, she said Dad, phone because
Laura answered the phone. So I go in there and uh,
it's Hello, done. This is Lou Holts. So I'm thinking
(20:55):
somebody's busting my chops right, I'm like, yeah, okay, no,
I'm serious, it's holds. I'm like, yes, sir, I think
I can do more for you. Didn't see a bunch
of come on up here, yes, sir. So I was
driving to Connecticut, get the call right before I leave.
Then I go to uh you know it called Skip.
(21:15):
He goes, yeah, I know. I went out to dinner.
I made a mistake about bragging about you, so he
said he was gonna hire you. He said you gotta go.
Good luck, and I'm like thanks. Well. Then two years
later everything was great there at Notre Dame working for
coach Holds. Two years later there's no jobs. And there
for a while it was like lou was just turning
out head coach after head coach after head coach. So
(21:35):
there was no jobs. And Rick Minner calls me and said,
I don't have any money this year, but I will
next year. And it was like, I think it was
like four thousand dollars not a wife and two kids. Uh,
Laura obviously was working. That was a tough time. That
that that it was a tough time. Um. But when
(21:57):
I took that job is where I met Rex Ryan
who was the defensive coordinator. John Harball was special teams coordinator,
running back coach, assistant head coach. This is in nineties six,
and there was a lot of guys, you know, like
Sam Pittman, the head coach at Arkansas was on that staff.
There's a lot of guys that went on and did
some big things and uh, you know, just like Rick
(22:20):
Son Jesse's doing in Michigan right now, is a defensive coordinator.
It's just it was. It was really cool. I love
how I love how you talked yourself into a camp
job by just showing up and saying a volatier. And
then I like, I like how Lu just decided to
pilfer from his own son. It was that was Lu though. Um,
(22:44):
and you were teaching in high school. When you were coaching,
you were teaching economics, I believe, business, business education and
biking and biking to work. Yeah yeah, at that time
it was yeah yeah, Um, how was your was your
experience as a teacher where you could teacher? I loved it.
I loved it. I still I think that's a big
(23:06):
part of what I do and how I do it today.
I mean, Mike, we've done all kinds of things. Back then,
it was, uh, you know, like I had a back
then it was chalkboards, not Greece sports. And I had
all those nerve hoops you put on the door. Well,
because I was a football coach and a baseball coach,
I had all the discipline problems in my room. They'd
(23:26):
send him, you know this, this kid's acting up in
home X. So he's gonna be in macro economics. But
i'd have the hoop up. And I did that for
a couple of reasons. Is because instead of kids milling
around in the hallway, a lot of my students would
get to class early and they'd be sure shooting on
(23:47):
the nerve hoop. But the main reason why I did
it was so we're in class and instead of a
kid being embarrassed that he didn't know the question, he'd
say to Martin, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to
the line because I had I had a key and
a foul line, you know, with the hoop. I'm gonna
go to the line. And if they've made the shot,
(24:08):
they could pass their question onto their buddy, all right,
And if they missed the shot, I would just tell
them the page the questions on and they got to
write that paragraph and turn it in before they leave.
So we had that going. We had we had our
Fridays and I got all the initials, A, D, D.
(24:28):
All I have all those initials. Um. I'd have soft
music on on Friday and have uh, you know what
chapters the next chapter because I know I wasn't a
very good student and I hated test on Fridays and
Mondays just like all of us did. So I don't
either have a test on Tuesday or Thursday. So Friday
we start the next chapter and back then, you know,
(24:54):
on Thursday, i'd post their grades. So if the class
averaged over in the mornings, I bring donuts for that class,
or from the afternoons, I get pizza. So what's that
do All the smart kids are seeing the low scores
of the other kids, and they're trying to help them study,
which was beautiful. I'm saying I did pair counseling. They're
(25:15):
without even knowing about it back then. Um, oh, here's
another one who did. As a teacher, you get evaluated
by the principles, you know. They come around and and
one of them was classroom participations. So I told the kids,
I said, now look, if you know the answer, raise
your right hand. If you don't know the answer, raise
(25:36):
your left hand. I swear I won't call on you.
So I got a class from my kids going, oh,
come on, guys, and that you know, Susie be there
in the back of the right hand. Up, Susie, very good,
very good. You know. Principal Dale starting to arrest ar
rescue got invested, so he he gets in front the
(25:56):
fact of me and says, I don't know what you
guys are doing, but we gotta teacher. It has a
class form classroom full of kids that are participating better
I've ever seen in my life. You did the right
hand left hand thing, did you know? I said, yep,
but you haven't done that in uh in NFL meetings yet.
(26:18):
I've told the story. And then you know, a couple
of guys a bus jobs to go. Ohh uh. If
only I had teachers like that, that would have helped. Um.
So I you've got a job. Your first NFL job
was in Oakland correct graders, and now you're working for
(26:39):
a living legend at the time, Al Davis, who um.
You know, it's a very opinionated guy. He did ban
me from the facility many times, full disclosure. But although
sometimes we we did have our good moments. But you know,
one of the things I had heard at that stage
was that Al was kind of surrounded by certain people
(27:02):
who would just say yes Al and not tell him
the hard stuff. I can't imagine you doing that. So
what were your interactions like with Mr Davis? I don't
know how it happened, but I loved working for al Davis,
And when he asked me a question, I would tell
(27:22):
him what I think, you know, and you know, you
know and and you know, have a discussion you know
with him, And I mean he he showed me, showed
me the way, especially when it comes to the draft.
That's why I have such deep passion for the draft
is because working for Mr David's starting out. Um, but
(27:44):
he was he was very important part of my growth,
especially in the NFL. And he would pull me aside
and say, what do you think about this? What do
you think about that? I was there five years in Oakland,
which was like, what would you say, thirty five years
for normal assistant coaches? Didn't last very long there, I
(28:05):
guess that's the best way to put it. I think
every year in that draft he would get in a
discussion with me in front of the staff, the coaching staff,
the personnel department, you know, all the scouts, because I
think that I showed a way to respectfully disagree, and
I think he did. I really do think he did
(28:27):
it on purpose, and uh, you know, and there was
just there's so many great stories, you know. I remember
one time, this was one of the first combines he
didn't go to when he started failing in health. One
of his I used to call him the vampires, Like
all of a sudden they'd show up. They'd be right there.
One of his assistant guys would say, Mr Davis is
(28:48):
on the phone, and he said, I don't want you.
What are you doing? I said, Mr Davis, I met
the weg Ins. You know, I was looking at the linebackers.
I met the wig Ins. The height. Wait, I want
you to get down there on a forty on the
ten yard line. How want you to feel those wide
receivers speed? Now? Yes, sir? All right? And you know
he wouldn't say goodbye, just hang out right. So I'm
(29:10):
going down there. But you know, now, all these years later,
I know exactly what he's talking about. You know he
wants he That's a great thing about when when we
were working there in Oakland is we knew every player
because we sat in on the offensive. You know. You know,
now other things were left off because of it, you know,
self scout studies and things like that, but you knew
(29:32):
every player that got drafted, and you knew that you
knew all those players for the next you know, five
or six years. Oh yeah, I remember him because of this,
this and this, and and it was. It was just
a great experience. I mean, I just can't tell you
how good that experience was, Mike, when you would challenge
him and back up what your thought was and he disagreed,
Like did it ever get funny? Like how contentious it got?
(29:54):
Put respectful? I don't know what the rating is on
this show, so I won't go in depth of of
the things. He used to say. It's funny now sometimes
it wasn't you know what I mean? But he give
us give us a taste with some bleeps. You can
self bleep, all right? He would like after, you know,
(30:15):
I would talk to him about like he loved a player,
and I said, he's fast, but he's not very instinctive.
I'd show him ten plays. Okay, okay, so you don't
like my guy? Huh no, sir, you know, like I said,
it was respective discussions. Now it wasn't like you know,
(30:37):
that's you know I was. I'd have the right words.
Then he'd walked by me, just look at me, go
and then keep walking. And we had one where it
was the fourth round. And that's back when it was
two days, you know, just Saturday and Sunday, we had
the first pick in the fourth round. So all the
(30:57):
scouts are coming up to me, you know, Mickey and
all the guys like, look, he's got his guy. He's
been here all night. He's not in the mood. No
one say a word. We're sitting in there and it's quiet. Well,
I got my guy, no one saying a word. Does
anybody else have anybody they want to draft? Because he
(31:21):
said Carlos France, you know, and Carlos could fly. Now
he was tracked. He pulled hamstrings all the time. But
it's just dead quiet and I and this was early too, Yeah,
this was early there. I think this is another reason
why I took a liking to me. No one has anything.
Huh oh, well, I guess I'm the only one who
(31:44):
wants to win around here. So I said, I have somebody.
Mr Davis and Rob Ryan went like, broke the code?
What are you doing? And I saw it because we
I always strategically sat back behind Mr Davis. He would
sit up, you know, up there, let me back here,
and I saw his shoulders. You know, he started laughing
(32:07):
a little bit because like he knew everything. If he
asked you a question, he already knew the answer, and
I know he knew that. Everybody's going around here. Hey man,
don't say it word be you know. So who do
you have? I said, Damario Williams, linebacker from Nebraska. So
back then I didn't know this. I had, you know.
(32:27):
He said, do you have a tape? And one of
the scott says, I have a tape. Well, it was
a kill tape. There was good tapes and there was
kill tapes. It was the kill tape in front in
front of everybody, you know, in front of the you know,
once again, in front of everybody offense, the whole staff personnel.
(32:47):
There's this tape going on. I'm like going, oh my god,
his worst moments, just his worst moments. This is a
kill tape. Yeah, he said, yeah, I know it is.
Kid makes the selection. This is it's the first year.
Because there's another story to it too. Um walks by
me after he makes his pick. That makes a selection.
(33:10):
I said, Kid, I just couldn't turn down that. I
know what they did to you there. That's a kill tape.
I like tomorrow, but I just couldn't turn down that speed. Yes, sir,
Mr Davis, and Rob's like you lucky you still have
a job. I'm like, hey, I had a guy. I
(33:31):
had a guy that was a good pick. And then
remember the running back from Louisville that broke his leg
was gonna be a Heisman winner. Michael Bush. Michael Bush,
Michael So another another situation. This time it was Saturday, Yeah,
Saturday night before we left, and he says, does anybody
(33:52):
have anything? Once again, it's crickets because everybody just wants
to leave. It's crickets. I do, Mr Davis, What Donny?
It brings joy to my heart? What Donny? I said?
(34:13):
I don't want to form anybody else's land. But I've
seen this kid playing high school and if offense doesn't
want him running back, I'll take him a linebacker. We
need to draft Michael Bush. This guy is a stud.
And then you know you'd have to wait for a year.
But huh, that's interesting Tom, because Tom Rath was running
(34:38):
back coast time. You know anything about Yes, sir, I
do Mr Davis make me a tape? I said, already
have a tape right here because I wanted to get
gout again. And and and the next day we drafted him. Yeah,
that's that's like I said, that's the cool part that
(35:01):
I'll never forget about work for Mr Davis. If you
believed in something, you said it. And I took plenty
of beat Trump too, now you know that, like all
all the coaches do and certain journalists definitely, well it's
on my mind. This is kind of a switch. But
you know, you guys went to London and play the Packers.
(35:23):
That was the first time, by the way, two teams
with winning records that ever faced off in London, So big,
big moment for the Brits and everyone's gonna kind of
you know, people will remember that you guys won, and
I referenced blitzing Aaron Rodgers and hail Mary and stuff,
But it turns out the most memorable image from that
(35:43):
game was something else, and that was one of your
I was your nickelback, great kid darn A Holmes um
on the sideline was well, I don't know what he
was getting, but what's going on? And when you saw
that video that came out of him on the sidelines,
(36:05):
what was your reaction. Well, that's the serious reaction, is
that that there was something wrong with this groin. It
was tightening up. It appeared that there was a groin involved.
It was behind He even said, let's go to the
blue tent. Well, I don't know exactly what the rule is,
(36:28):
but there's something about you can't take them to the
blue tent unless there's I don't know if it's a
head injury or head and I don't know what it is,
but you know, so he's now, we'll just do it
right here. So then that that we we didn't even
get on the plane yet, that that was already. I mean,
(36:49):
Twitter is brutal. It is brutal, undefeated and brutal. Uh
So I'm just glad I wasn't anywhere around that. Thank you, right,
because that's a rough day of work. Um. I mean,
you know, you're you're part of the training staff for
(37:09):
an NFL team, but now you've got to get a
player's groin right well, and you're trying to get them
right back on the fields. They don't miss any snaps too,
so what you want the blood to flow? Stop it?
So you're gonna be, You're gonna be. So I'm just
saying so from behind the video like his first of all,
it didn't help darnay that you know, his pants were
(37:31):
kind of pulled down, so there was there was some
exposure there, but you're saying, you're saying it was just
the groy nothing. It wasn't necessarily anything higher than the Okay,
all right, uh so literally, you guys are on the
(37:52):
bus when that started coming out. Oh yeah, I mean
they're passing around playing and everything. It was. It was,
it was pretty fine. It must have been a hell
of a buffer. Luckily you won, so you could really
enjoy no doubt that that that I have such respect
for for Aaron Rodgers, that that was a that was
(38:12):
a really cool game and to be a part of it,
and h like I said, I just had so much
respect for him. Uh, I just hope that they helped
him out as long as I'm not playing against you,
no doubt. Yeah, I know you guys. You guys have
this great mutual respect then going It's cool like me,
(38:33):
you you tend to bond with the people who have
the very extreme personalities, who are considered kind of you
know the words SAPs of the world right like, so, um,
I know one of your all time favorite guys is
Marcus Peters. I covered a preseason game where I believe
(38:54):
he took over for you. He was not playing he
took over for you and ran the defense to the
second half. Yes, he did. That's what. That's where he
doesn't get enough respect. Everybody wants to talk about whatever
besides his He he is a football savant, he really is.
And and from the corner position. You don't see that
(39:15):
very often. You know. You see a lot of guys,
you know, the great ones that you know can make
plays out there, and they study receivers. He studies the game.
And I just I love Marcus Peters. He's a good man.
And uh, you know I sued him, missed, you know,
being around him. But that was a tough one after
(39:37):
we played the Raven seeing him. I made sure I
made that a quick I love you and keep walking
because I'd got two emotional So when you gave him
the headset and had him run the d he's on
the sideline with you. Well, I kept the communication part.
He just tell me what Callie wanted. How did he
do well? He shut him out, shut him out. We'll
(39:59):
see in the record before that was well, well had
three series of three three and ounce whoa. So after
you know, i'd say you want to go again, Yeah,
I'll go again. You know, Mark says, yeah, yeah, and
then he's like, I'm finishing it. You know. I'm like
all right, But you know there's different guys that you
(40:21):
didn't hear about. You know, like Sis was calling plays
and they started gaining yards on Sis and he just
like through the caul sheet and he said, don't want
to do this, You do it, you know, says When
I first met, says, we were I was doing a
workout story in southern California with him and some other guys.
(40:44):
He was very early in his career and UM President
Obama was he had just become president, had given a
speech at Arizona State UM. And it was controversial because
normally when someone kind of gives the graduation speech, they
give him an honorary degree. But they hadn't. They had
(41:05):
not given President Obama the honorary degree. So it became
a thing. And I remember it came up at breakfast
and says said, man, they didn't give him a degree.
Was I went to Arizona State, I passed my classes.
He goes that m Effort went to Harvard. They should
give him five degrees. And you know, just hearing of Cloud,
(41:26):
hearing of Cloud his own school was amazing so yeah,
I can see how says that that's another smart football player, right,
so smart football player, but maybe didn't have the patients
to um, you know, you said you have all the
initials I could I could see says not having the
patients to think through an entire you know, series of
(41:50):
if it didn't work. But it's too early to do here,
you know what I mean, because we're just put in
a new system. But the reason why I do that
is so you can you know, they're sitting on the
back of that plane saying, I want to called this route,
it called that. Then you have those guys that actually
call it say whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not as easy
(42:11):
to think, you know what I mean? And you know,
and it's you know, the guys that know the system
are well like Marcus and and welled and it's is
it too And like I said, this, this is a
football savant uh as well, and he he just knows,
he just knows how to play possible. I'd love to
(42:32):
extend that to beat writers and calumnists too and TV analysts, um,
because you know, many of us think we know scheme now,
and that's I've noticed I actually know that I don't.
But I feel like a lot of my peers, more
than when I broke in, are kind of um presenting
themselves as like experts on scheme and strategies. So, you know,
(42:57):
if you ever, like, you know, you want a couple
of Super Bowls as a head coach and you're feeling
like super secure and you want to just bring down
some media people to call a preseason game, I'd love
to see that. Oh that would be good, wouldn't I'd
be I'd be like, says, what do I call? Hey, Markus?
So you so you're a fantasy league owner? Huh see
(43:22):
if your cop he's worth it. I think also it
would be fun to see media people try to give
coaching points to NFL players in the heat of battle.
You know, I think that that might not be received,
you know, quite as well. But there's a lot of
great people in this in this profession. I mean there
really is. You know, I've gotten to know you for example.
It's just it's, uh, you know, it's it's one of
(43:44):
those things that it's always easier to do, just like
it would be for me, right, you know, like you
think you would be able to do it, like what
we're doing right now. But who knows. I wouldn't know
what questions to ask. I just do. What we're doing
is just things that you and I talked about before
everything else, so well, I do feel like it's people
(44:07):
who are themselves in any context, which I would describe
you exactly that way. It helps because then there's no variability.
Like if you're a TV person and you so like
this on television, but then when you're off TV you
sound like this, it kind of freaks people out. But
if you I just tried when I was at TV
(44:28):
a lot to just be me on TV, you can
tell it too. And it's not for everyone, just like
in person, it's definitely not for everyone. Well, here's what
it is. You know why it's not for everyone because
not everybody's comfortable comfortable in their own skin, like we are, right,
all right? You think this all right? You know what
I mean, I'll prove me wrong. You know, it's just okay,
(44:51):
I would say that. And the natural beauty that we
both possess again male models, yeah, male models, I mean
call us. You know, we ends to be in the
husky division of male models now, but back today I
was straight male model. Yeah, And the reason you're in
the Husky Division, as you said, is because you live
in one of the great food cities, if not the greatest,
(45:12):
of the world, and you're about to get a bunch
of free meals. I think. I mean, look, I don't
know what you like what you just were secretly like
what could this team be this year record wise? But
you know the fact that you got to six in general,
I think it's like pretty exciting and it's gonna get higher. Yeah,
(45:33):
I think that, Uh, the credit goes to players, So
those guys, it's it's re energized me, Mike coming here
and being with just a new group of guys, you know,
the change itself bringing some of my guys you know
with me from Baltimore, Drew and Kevin Wilkins. I got
Johnny Eggs who was with me when I was a
(45:54):
linebacker coach there. And I've known Brian Cox and Dray
Patterson forever and Rome Henderson, our secondary coach. He was
here on the previous staff. I mean, he is a
rock star. So you know, the players play hard, and
the coaches are all standing on even keel like I do.
During the game, something bad happens, we just say okay,
(46:16):
here's how we gotta fix it. Let's go do it,
and they just they just keep answering the bell and
it's it's really fun to watch it, really is. I
love it. Okay, I got a couple of quick ones
for you because you've been amazing and you probably have
to actually go do some. It's fast playing, Yeah, it's
fast fright. First of all, um, you said before you
(46:38):
played Joe Burrow last year, he said, Hey, it's not
like we're measuring him for a gold jacket yet, which
was accurate. He was very young. He seemed to like
he got all fired up about that. Have you guys
hugged it out yet or is that yeah? Yeah, we
hugged it out this year in preseason because they you know,
what are they what do you what? Does media call
it a throwaway line? Yes, okay, it was a throwaway line.
(47:01):
After they explained to me what a throwaway line was.
We were talking. We were talking about Aaron Rodgers and
and Davante and you know about Aaron said that I
gave him a coverage you know that he hasn't ever
seen before and you know, and like you already said,
the mutual respect we have for each other and then
(47:23):
another guy chirps in and said, are you going to
do the same thing for Joe Burrow? While I was
in the middle of a sentence talking about Aaron Rodgers
going to be a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback.
And then when he said it, I just said, well,
I don't think we're getting ready to measure Joe for
Gold Jackie yet. But they have talented receivers. Uh, you know,
he's he's really picked up the offenses second year. You know,
(47:45):
I said it like four other things, compliment and Joe Burrow, Well,
what comes out is we're not ready to fit him
for a Gold Jackie yet. Any youth, just like I did.
You know, I mean every every I think, every coach
and every player that's worth anything in this league finds
a reason u uh, not like somebody that Sunday, you know,
(48:07):
and in preparation and you know, and we've always viewed
ourselves as underdogs as far as I'm saying we as
coaching staff, and I have definitely as as a defensive coordinator.
And I think that's what that's what keeps my edge. Yeah,
and you are getting more media savvy, and the way
I knew that was First, you had a line talking
(48:29):
about last year where you said, I learned don't go
to door dash to get backup cornerbacks, which you know,
you guys were very injury ravaged. Um. But then my
favorite was you did blitz in a preseason game against
the Patriots, which some coaches really don't like, and Belichick
kind of said something about it, and you were going
to get asked about it the next day, and you
(48:50):
were getting ready to play the Bengals, and amasically you
had the greatest possible line picked out to use multiple times,
which is we're on the Cincinnati so, um, you're getting there, man,
You're you're gonna be pretty good at this. Yeah, the
the U. I sometimes I get accused of not respecting punters,
(49:14):
and what I always say is it's not that I
don't respect punters, it's just that I respect them way
less than the other fifty two. Sorry, that's just me. Um,
kickers I respect more, but you know, kickers are still kickers.
But you were with a kicker who I mean, Justin
Tucker is ridiculous. You know, probably the best he's ever
(49:36):
done it? Um? Is he also the cockiest who's ever
done it? Um? I think he might be the smartest
that's ever done it. And I think he uses his
personality to do things like World Farm commercials and things
like that. I think he's very confident and as well
as he should be, uh, because he sticks to his
(49:59):
routine and uh, you know, the biggest thing stands out
is he's got a new long snapper and a new
holder this year, and he's still kicking as well as
he ever has. But I've been fortunately around a lot
of good hunters and kickers throughout my career. We had
Sea Bass and Leckler out there, and and Sam and
and and Justin Tucker there in Baltimore, Sam Cook and
(50:21):
Justin Tucker, and you know, Condo was a long snapper
For some reason, I just I love being around those guys.
I think the biggest reason is is because most of
them are golfers, and we talked golf instead of kicking
and instead of football, and it's just a break for
me when I'm out on the field and special teams
and all that stuff. I talked to him about that
(50:42):
kind of stuff. You know, you're a guy who I
think is finally going to get some head coaching h
hysteria hopefully if it keeps going like this. Um, you know,
I know a lot of coaches who are just like,
I'm not gonna think about it. I'm just gonna put
my head down and try to do good work, and
if it happens, it happens. And then you and I
(51:04):
both know coaches who, uh you know, are thinking about
it all the time, even when they're g a s
and there, you know twenty three. Um, kind of where
are you with that? How do you feel about, you know,
wanting to be a head coach and whether it will happen.
I think earlier in my career, you know, I was
one of those younger guys that said, you know, I
(51:24):
gotta be a head coach. I gotta be a head coach.
I've through my experience, I think that you're wherever you're
at is where you're supposed to be. And uh, you know,
and that's how I feel because there's just so many
variables that go into it. You know, it from govern
at all that you know that it just you just
(51:44):
don't know. It's it's a different league today is what
it was you know ten years back? You know, And
it's one of those things that you know, if you
get the opportunity, you grasp it and take off with it,
just like Dave's has here. Hire the best staff you
can hire, and and great things can happen. And you know,
(52:05):
like you said, we're just in the inf of state,
infant stages of building a program here and it's it's
been a lot of fun doing it. Well. I love it,
and I I am anxious to see it in person
one of these weeks. It will you know, I will
never be able to figure out what you guys are
(52:27):
doing and how this turned around. And uh whatever secrets
you and Dave's and don't even don't even question it.
Just go with it exactly whatever whatever you and Joe
and Dave's and company or whatever sorcery because a rock
star too, now that's right. So yeah, I I hear
that actually, so yeah, whatever you guys have going uh
(52:51):
just um, I don't know, I don't know how if
I should say this at the end, but keep massaging it,
you know, like a guy on the sideline, you have
to go why you have to go back to that.
It's just so easy. Twitter remains are defeated. Thank you
so much, Thank you, Mike
The volume. Well, the NFL coaching world is full of
phonies and psychos and frauds, and every once in a
while you get a real one. Uh. And that is
the way I would describe this guy. Uh, Don Wink
(00:25):
Martindale has a very clearly defined coaching philosophy and you
see it out there every week. He blitz Belichick during
the preseason, he blitz and Aaron Rodgers, Hailberry and London. Uh.
He blitz one of his favorite guys, Lamar Jackson with
the game on the line a couple of weeks ago. Uh.
(00:45):
Everybody calls him Wink, but he is in my phone
as Don, Hello, sir, how we do just wonderful? Um? Yeah,
you you're not shy about what you are and what
you do, right, you are You're gonna blitz people. Well,
I think that you know, each game is different and
(01:06):
in the timing of pressures are you know, different for
each game? I think that you know, if if I
drive home from a game and say I wish I
had a rush more than three, or you know when
max coverage or whatever it is, uh, that's not a
fun drive home for me. I'm more of a let's
(01:26):
go for it and you know, everybody execute and put
it on me if it doesn't work. And we've had
a lot of success doing it that way. And I
say that. And then last week we played Jacksonville and
the last three plays we were three man rush. But
it want us a game. It was a situational football
decision that we made. And we made that on Thursday.
You know, we have win the game Thursdays. If we
(01:47):
got in that situation, here's what we would call. And
we're stuck with those calls, and it wanted for us.
You are six and one in New York. Now, you
did incredible work in Baltimore the previous four seasons, but
it's Baltimore. You've got some attention. I is it different
to New York when you are six and one? A
surprising six and one? Yeah, I believe. So. I think
(02:09):
one of the biggest things is because there's eight million
people here. So it is uh, you know, you're you're
definitely uh, you know, right in the center of you know,
the greatest city in the world. And and and people
are excited and as you know, there's a lot of
personality out here on the East Coast in New York,
and uh, it's it's just it's it's going really well
right now. Have you and Laura hit the town at all?
(02:31):
You know, that's the tough part is right now, it's
it's like I'm a mercenary because she's still back in
Maryland with the you know, the kids and the dogs
and and and and the grand baby and she but
when when she comes up, you know, you know, we'll
we'll go out. But you know, it's just like any
place else, you have your restaurant you really like. So
instead of you know, the worst thing is about New
(02:55):
York is my diet because whatever food you like, you
and I were talking about sushi earlier, whatever food you like,
they got the best kind of it. So but you know,
we have our spots we like to go to it.
It's it's it's a lot of fun. That's awesome. I
wonder are you getting recognized at all, you know, in
Manhattan or in Jersey. And it's pretty crazy. It's just
(03:16):
like I said, there's you know, my wife said that
because it's like there's more people come up to you
now than before. I say, because there's more people, it
makes sense to me anyway, Yeah, I love it. In fact,
it's gonna be hard when you and I go out
when I come out there, because between all the people
mobbing me, no doubt, and you now it's because you
(03:39):
still have your bodyguards with you though, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you saw my bodyguards at the combine. They're not exactly
the strongest dudes in the world. One of the works
for ESPN and he uh, you know, I don't think
he could bench press a microphone. But he's a good mascot.
Though he is a good mascot. He's a hype man
for sure. All Right, the Giants were nineteen and forty
(04:02):
six the past four seasons. While you were in Baltimore,
Joe Shane came in, Um, Brian day ball you um,
and you did some roster flushing and tweaked it. Um.
But honestly, are you guys like a little bit ahead
of schedule in terms of turning it around? You know
(04:23):
in this league, you know, if you don't stay humble,
it'll it'll smack you around. So we definitely have our
humility with us. I think that the biggest thing that
stands out is just the organization alignment of of like
you already said, you know, starting with the Marion Tis
family and then Joe and and Dave's Dave's is just
(04:44):
he's he's my kind of guy, and he's just the
culture that that you know, and we all have something
to do with it. But the culture that he's built
here is it makes it a great place to come
to work and and and the players have really you know,
bought in and and help change the culture themselves. Uh.
And it's it's just a different style, I believe from
(05:05):
the past. I wasn't here in the past, so but
it just seems that way from what I've heard from
players and other people, you know, from a cafeteria or wherever.
You know. It's just it's it's a different it's different environment. Yeah,
and I know you weren't there. And we always hear
the word culture change, but it's hard tangibly to know
what that is just based on what you've heard. What, Yeah,
(05:27):
what's kind of what I've been the bedrocks, I think,
And I think the culture change has a lot to
do with people's personality and and people's confidence in themselves,
which pours into the players and and and for them
to know that it's not the end of the world,
(05:48):
you know, Like I'm speaking defensively, now if if someone
makes a mistake, you know, especially you know when you're
an O, T, A. S. And and well even in
the games, because when they come over the sideline, um,
you know, it was like the world was in him
before and now I'm just like, hey, your's two plays.
We know you mess it up. You don't have to
say my bad, you know, we know alright, so just
(06:09):
just go go make it up, you O's two plays.
And and the guys have really brought into that philosophy
and uh, you know, they're starting to communicate more and
it's it's just you just gotta just keep stacking great
practices and in great plays and great days, and then
it turns into weeks and then who knows where it's
gonna end up. They're not running gassers if they mess up, No,
(06:35):
not not your style. Huh. You you will tell them though,
you will, you will not sugarcoat it. Yeah, you know
a lot of that, you know, when you're saying, I
understand what you're saying. Tangible with culture, uh, a lot
of you know, changing the culture is being honest and
once they know that. You know, if if if a
player knows that you care about them, they'll bust their
(06:57):
tail for you and you know, and for themselves and
for their teammates. And you know that's that's definitely our
style of being honest with them up front. And I'll
say it from the whole defense too. I have you know,
we always have those keep it real meetings where I say,
here's where we're at, here's what we need to do better.
You know, here's the good you know, the good things,
and and uh, you know, they all appreciate it and respected.
(07:22):
And I'm sure you'll point out when you mess up
to today. Oh yeah, no doubt. Yeah, that's what I'm
saying to all of us, you know, any anything, Yeah,
I have no problem doing that. Well, you have practiced,
because I'm sure Laura points out to you all the
time we're not doing well, no doubt. Um. I saw
the Seahawks in Week two. I covered the Fort in
As Seahawks game. The Fourtis beat him twenty seven seven.
(07:44):
The seven was a block field goal, so they basically
shut them out. And I thought to myself, Okay, um,
you know, Russell Wilson's gone, they're kind of rebuilding. You know.
The offense is is not where it needs to be.
Since that game, they've had the number one productive offense
in the league. They're averaging thirty one point eight points
a game, and now you've got to go play him
(08:06):
at their place. Uh. Is that is that stressful? Oh? Yeah,
of course it is. I mean, it's it's gonna be
a great challenge. The receiving corps is outstanding fast. Uh.
You know the running back, the rookie running back. I
saw him hanging Michigan State played Michigan last year, and
(08:26):
he's really starting to blossoms as an NFL running back. Uh.
But uh, and Gino is playing really well. And if
I were, if I weren't playing against him, might say
I'm happy for him, But after this weekend, I'll be
happy for him because but he is, he's playing really well,
and they've done a nice job. Well. Gino is a
(08:48):
cool story. He kind of hunk tough and got written off,
as he said, and and you know, he's really making
a lot of this opportunity. We'll get into your journey
because it's it's been super interesting. Um. You know you
I talk every year about coaches who aren't getting their
(09:09):
doe in the coaching cycle. A lot of times their
minorities and that's a big issue. But I talked about
you a lot too, just because the production has been
so glaringly good and for whatever reason, you know, I
feel like you haven't gotten as much traction in certain cycles.
You did interview with the Giants, you know, before the season,
(09:32):
and I know you really enjoyed that experience and they
they really came away impressed. Um did that kind of
stick with you when you were looking around, Uh you
know after this last season. Oh yeah, you know there
there's there were some choices, you know, possible choices to
be made. Um. You know this is a place that
you know, I really I really like, you know, the
(09:54):
interview process with them. Um, you know, with the history
of the organization. Uh, it's it's been everything I thought
it would be in even more. But uh, I just
I think that, you know, getting back to Gino what
we were talking about, I was asked a similar question
in my press conferences, and he said, you ever seen
another quarterback, you know, blossom this latest career like that?
(10:17):
And I said, really, Kurt Warner, you know, I said,
I don't know if they're gonna make a movie on Gino,
but I mean, really that's similar to what was you know,
you had who Kurt replaced there and in at that
time St. Louis, you know, and and Gina is doing
the same thing in Seattle. See, this is why, this
(10:38):
is why I love you. Another reason you're on my podcast.
We're talking and you just managed to get a plug
in for a movie that was made about my book
with Kurt twenty one years after we wrote it. By
the way, now that is friendship for that, you know.
And so anyone who hasn't seen American Underdog, you know
(10:58):
you'll see my day way up had the opening credits
because it's all me. It's my it's really my doing,
not Kurts. But yeah know that, you know it's it's
true because that is a you know, I am a
sucker for the underdog story anyway. Uh, you know it's
funny my son, when the movie came out, our book
(11:19):
was called All Things Possible back in two thousand and
my son set and me, Dad, do you wish that
the movie had been called All Things Possible? And I go, no,
I wish the book had been called American Underdog. That's
a cooler title. And you know, we kind of laughed,
but I felt, you know, I love the underdog story
so much that any time I see like a little
(11:42):
trace of it, I go nuts, like Taylor Heineke in
Washington last year and again this year, and so um,
I do get into that. So it's it's a good
jumping off point. Let's talk about your story, because um,
you literally you're you're from Ohio. You literally went to
college at a place called Defiance. Yes, yes, Harvard of Northwest, Ohio.
(12:09):
And you you know, you were probably like a lot
of kids in Ohio, you know, a high school football
star who really was into it and you know, working
class upbringing and and you know, now you're like a big,
big apple star in a fancy studio, but back then
more of a more of a humble beginning. You know,
(12:32):
you you ended up in coaching, but you know, you
you did something first. What was your first job college?
My my grandfather, my uncle, and my dad were all
in the trucking business. So of course they wanted me
to get into the trucking business. So I left school
(12:52):
a year or early. He said, I'm just gonna get
in the trucking business because I got hurt playing football.
I hated every day. I went into that job, and
I knew that I wanted to coach. I wanted to
be a high school teacher and coach just like my
high school teacher coach. My high school coach who was
still coaching, uh a matter of fact, has a playoff
(13:13):
game to night. Um. He coached me ever since I
was in third grade and just made a was a
major impact in my life and a lot of my style.
It comes from him because he talked to us just
as honest as I talked to our players all the time.
Because you knew that he cared. And you know, if
(13:36):
you have somebody that cares, you know, what else do
you need? And to clarify, you were not playing varsity
football in third grade? He was no, no, no, no.
He's coached me ever since I was in third grade.
He came up the ranks too. Yeah. And when you
went into the trucking business, what was your day to
day like, Oh, I was driving a truck. I was.
(13:58):
I was doing pickups and delay every's. I started four
thirty in the morning, I wouldn't get home until six
thirty at night. I drive from Dayton, Ohio, up to
the Detroit the Chrysler Plan up Detroit, drop all that
stuff off, wait for them to load something back on.
That was always fun and then go do pick ups
through through Michigan before I went back down the date.
(14:19):
So it was it was not very It was not
entertaining at all. It was not enjoyable at all. I'm
sure changing flats in the winter is a great feeling. Yeah,
no doubt. We're getting stuck in a snowstorm. Were you
one of the CB radio guys? Oh yeah, back then? Yeah,
did you have a name? I forget what it was
now I did, but I forget what I really do.
(14:42):
Forget what it was, and it wasn't wink. No, and
for you young people, wink. Martindale very famous, kind of
cheesy game show host over the years. Um you are
no relation though I would watch you host a game
show for sure. No, no no relation. But um, name stuck. Yeah,
(15:04):
I know it's good. I mean there is an actress
Margot Martindale that I've noticed in recent years. So that's
my cousin for real, as far as everyone knows. Yeah,
that's cool. No, it's not. I just hopefully it's you.
It's your it's your de facto cousins. So okay, So
(15:25):
the name Martindale, we've established big in the trucking business
in Ohio. Um, do you like, how did they prep
you for that? Did they give you, like your first
cup of black coffee when you're like six six years old? Oh,
there's no preparation for that, no preparation for that. Both
(15:45):
my uncle and my dad have passed, but God love them.
They they've met well and any truck stop showers like,
did you have to do that whole lifestyle? No? I was.
I was never overnight. No. Okay, well, well that's good
and uh and you know I have met your wonderful
wife Laura, and she's great. Um, you clearly overachieved. How
(16:08):
did you manage to get that done back in your
early days? Really, she chased me, Mike. I could see that.
I mean, I think anyone who's looking at the screen
right now, I'm just kidding, honey, I'm just kidding. I'm
just kidding. They see two guys right now who were
clearly our beautiful wives chased us. I mean, I just
(16:29):
don't think there's any no doubt, no doubt. I hope
neither one of them are listening. Um, I just it
was one of those things. I was dating one of
her friends. Uh, she went to the rich school, and
I went to the poor school. And I was dating
one of her friends, and then I met her and
we did well. I liked her. She didn't like me
(16:50):
for good for good reason. But it was one of
those things that we just kept talking and then we
went out and uh I married her when she was
years old. I was twenty two and she's twenty. Wow.
And you know, that's one of the tough parts you
were talking about being up there in New York, is
this is the first time in my coaching career. You know,
(17:12):
we've been married thirty seven years. It's the first time
my coaching career that we haven't been together, you know,
every day. And that's that's tough. It's the best way
to explain. It's like every every game is in away game,
you know, until she comes up here. It's it's it's
a relaxer. You have a beautiful, beautiful place in Maryland
where the dogs can run around, you can drink amazing
(17:34):
red wine out on the on the deck. Although if
you when you drive up to visit, you might you
know your you know, your bravery is tested when those
dogs come out to great jef But yeah, I know
I can understand why she would want to hang there
and you know obviously, but yeah, that's gotta be tough.
(17:57):
You guys have been through so much together. You know
what kind of acrifices has she had to make as
a coach's wife. Well, I think we've moved and I
want to say eighteen times. Whoa uh, you know where
the whole family moved and then you know, we were
in Baltimore for ten years, so that was like Maryland's
(18:19):
like home to my kids because that's where we were
at the longest. It was usually three years go to
go to a better job, three years, go to a
better job. And uh, you know, like when we were Denver,
we moved three times. We were there for three years.
We moved three times in three years because one place
where we were renting, the guy wasn't making the house payment,
so they foreclosed on us. We had moved. But it's
(18:43):
all turned out really well, that's awesome. When you were
working at the University of Cincinnati, Um, weren't you making
some like non livable wage at the time. Yeah, that
that is there. There was. There was two things that
were pivotal in my career. One is when I was
a high school teacher and coach. I really enjoyed it.
(19:05):
I was living my dream. And then I said I
want to coach college football. Well, the way to get
into college football's work summer camps. While at that time
I was a big Blue Holtz fan, so I would
write a letter, you know, to coach Holts and and
say I want to work in football camp. Well, I
didn't realize that you had to have recruits as a
(19:25):
high school coach. Then they bring you up to work
the camp, you bring the recruits. I didn't realize how
that worked. So there was two years that I got
turned down, and the third year I told Laura I said, hey, look,
they said I'm I'm gonna be working the Notre Dame camp,
which they turned me down again. But I just went
out there and I met skip Holtz going in about
(19:48):
five thirty in the morning in South Bend. He's, hey, coach,
what can I do for you? Said, well, I'm here
to work football camp. He said, come on in. So
he's looking through his list of coaches and he says,
I'm sorry, coach, I don't have your name on the list.
I said, that's okay, I'll volunteer because no, you won't,
I'll pay you. And after that I worked there three
more years and Skip and I, you know, became really
(20:11):
good friends. Um and he and his wife Jennifer had
us up guest you know, for games and all that stuff.
And then he got the job at the University of
Connecticut and calls me up says, I want you to
be my outside linebacker coach. I said, great, I'm there.
So I resigned for my teaching position. I'm packing up
my car and it's a snowstorm. I remember, just like
(20:34):
it was yesterday, and my daughter, I believe was four
at the time, and uh, she said Dad, phone because
Laura answered the phone. So I go in there and uh,
it's Hello, done. This is Lou Holts. So I'm thinking
(20:55):
somebody's busting my chops right, I'm like, yeah, okay, no,
I'm serious, it's holds. I'm like, yes, sir, I think
I can do more for you. Didn't see a bunch
of come on up here, yes, sir. So I was
driving to Connecticut, get the call right before I leave.
Then I go to uh you know it called Skip.
(21:15):
He goes, yeah, I know. I went out to dinner.
I made a mistake about bragging about you, so he
said he was gonna hire you. He said you gotta go.
Good luck, and I'm like thanks. Well. Then two years
later everything was great there at Notre Dame working for
coach Holds. Two years later there's no jobs. And there
for a while it was like lou was just turning
out head coach after head coach after head coach. So
(21:35):
there was no jobs. And Rick Minner calls me and said,
I don't have any money this year, but I will
next year. And it was like, I think it was
like four thousand dollars not a wife and two kids. Uh,
Laura obviously was working. That was a tough time. That
that that it was a tough time. Um. But when
(21:57):
I took that job is where I met Rex Ryan
who was the defensive coordinator. John Harball was special teams coordinator,
running back coach, assistant head coach. This is in nineties six,
and there was a lot of guys, you know, like
Sam Pittman, the head coach at Arkansas was on that staff.
There's a lot of guys that went on and did
some big things and uh, you know, just like Rick
(22:20):
Son Jesse's doing in Michigan right now, is a defensive coordinator.
It's just it was. It was really cool. I love
how I love how you talked yourself into a camp
job by just showing up and saying a volatier. And
then I like, I like how Lu just decided to
pilfer from his own son. It was that was Lu though. Um,
(22:44):
and you were teaching in high school. When you were coaching,
you were teaching economics, I believe, business, business education and
biking and biking to work. Yeah yeah, at that time
it was yeah yeah, Um, how was your was your
experience as a teacher where you could teacher? I loved it.
I loved it. I still I think that's a big
(23:06):
part of what I do and how I do it today.
I mean, Mike, we've done all kinds of things. Back then,
it was, uh, you know, like I had a back
then it was chalkboards, not Greece sports. And I had
all those nerve hoops you put on the door. Well,
because I was a football coach and a baseball coach,
I had all the discipline problems in my room. They'd
(23:26):
send him, you know this, this kid's acting up in
home X. So he's gonna be in macro economics. But
i'd have the hoop up. And I did that for
a couple of reasons. Is because instead of kids milling
around in the hallway, a lot of my students would
get to class early and they'd be sure shooting on
(23:47):
the nerve hoop. But the main reason why I did
it was so we're in class and instead of a
kid being embarrassed that he didn't know the question, he'd
say to Martin, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to
the line because I had I had a key and
a foul line, you know, with the hoop. I'm gonna
go to the line. And if they've made the shot,
(24:08):
they could pass their question onto their buddy, all right,
And if they missed the shot, I would just tell
them the page the questions on and they got to
write that paragraph and turn it in before they leave.
So we had that going. We had we had our
Fridays and I got all the initials, A, D, D.
(24:28):
All I have all those initials. Um. I'd have soft
music on on Friday and have uh, you know what
chapters the next chapter because I know I wasn't a
very good student and I hated test on Fridays and
Mondays just like all of us did. So I don't
either have a test on Tuesday or Thursday. So Friday
we start the next chapter and back then, you know,
(24:54):
on Thursday, i'd post their grades. So if the class
averaged over in the mornings, I bring donuts for that class,
or from the afternoons, I get pizza. So what's that
do All the smart kids are seeing the low scores
of the other kids, and they're trying to help them study,
which was beautiful. I'm saying I did pair counseling. They're
(25:15):
without even knowing about it back then. Um, oh, here's
another one who did. As a teacher, you get evaluated
by the principles, you know. They come around and and
one of them was classroom participations. So I told the kids,
I said, now look, if you know the answer, raise
your right hand. If you don't know the answer, raise
(25:36):
your left hand. I swear I won't call on you.
So I got a class from my kids going, oh,
come on, guys, and that you know, Susie be there
in the back of the right hand. Up, Susie, very good,
very good. You know. Principal Dale starting to arrest ar
rescue got invested, so he he gets in front the
(25:56):
fact of me and says, I don't know what you
guys are doing, but we gotta teacher. It has a
class form classroom full of kids that are participating better
I've ever seen in my life. You did the right
hand left hand thing, did you know? I said, yep,
but you haven't done that in uh in NFL meetings yet.
(26:18):
I've told the story. And then you know, a couple
of guys a bus jobs to go. Ohh uh. If
only I had teachers like that, that would have helped. Um.
So I you've got a job. Your first NFL job
was in Oakland correct graders, and now you're working for
(26:39):
a living legend at the time, Al Davis, who um.
You know, it's a very opinionated guy. He did ban
me from the facility many times, full disclosure. But although
sometimes we we did have our good moments. But you know,
one of the things I had heard at that stage
was that Al was kind of surrounded by certain people
(27:02):
who would just say yes Al and not tell him
the hard stuff. I can't imagine you doing that. So
what were your interactions like with Mr Davis? I don't
know how it happened, but I loved working for al Davis,
And when he asked me a question, I would tell
(27:22):
him what I think, you know, and you know, you
know and and you know, have a discussion you know
with him, And I mean he he showed me, showed
me the way, especially when it comes to the draft.
That's why I have such deep passion for the draft
is because working for Mr David's starting out. Um, but
(27:44):
he was he was very important part of my growth,
especially in the NFL. And he would pull me aside
and say, what do you think about this? What do
you think about that? I was there five years in Oakland,
which was like, what would you say, thirty five years
for normal assistant coaches? Didn't last very long there, I
(28:05):
guess that's the best way to put it. I think
every year in that draft he would get in a
discussion with me in front of the staff, the coaching staff,
the personnel department, you know, all the scouts, because I
think that I showed a way to respectfully disagree, and
I think he did. I really do think he did
(28:27):
it on purpose, and uh, you know, and there was
just there's so many great stories, you know. I remember
one time, this was one of the first combines he
didn't go to when he started failing in health. One
of his I used to call him the vampires, Like
all of a sudden they'd show up. They'd be right there.
One of his assistant guys would say, Mr Davis is
(28:48):
on the phone, and he said, I don't want you.
What are you doing? I said, Mr Davis, I met
the weg Ins. You know, I was looking at the linebackers.
I met the wig Ins. The height. Wait, I want
you to get down there on a forty on the
ten yard line. How want you to feel those wide
receivers speed? Now? Yes, sir? All right? And you know
he wouldn't say goodbye, just hang out right. So I'm
(29:10):
going down there. But you know, now, all these years later,
I know exactly what he's talking about. You know he
wants he That's a great thing about when when we
were working there in Oakland is we knew every player
because we sat in on the offensive. You know. You know,
now other things were left off because of it, you know,
self scout studies and things like that, but you knew
(29:32):
every player that got drafted, and you knew that you
knew all those players for the next you know, five
or six years. Oh yeah, I remember him because of this,
this and this, and and it was. It was just
a great experience. I mean, I just can't tell you
how good that experience was, Mike, when you would challenge
him and back up what your thought was and he disagreed,
Like did it ever get funny? Like how contentious it got?
(29:54):
Put respectful? I don't know what the rating is on
this show, so I won't go in depth of of
the things. He used to say. It's funny now sometimes
it wasn't you know what I mean? But he give
us give us a taste with some bleeps. You can
self bleep, all right? He would like after, you know,
(30:15):
I would talk to him about like he loved a player,
and I said, he's fast, but he's not very instinctive.
I'd show him ten plays. Okay, okay, so you don't
like my guy? Huh no, sir, you know, like I said,
it was respective discussions. Now it wasn't like you know,
(30:37):
that's you know I was. I'd have the right words.
Then he'd walked by me, just look at me, go
and then keep walking. And we had one where it
was the fourth round. And that's back when it was
two days, you know, just Saturday and Sunday, we had
the first pick in the fourth round. So all the
(30:57):
scouts are coming up to me, you know, Mickey and
all the guys like, look, he's got his guy. He's
been here all night. He's not in the mood. No
one say a word. We're sitting in there and it's quiet. Well,
I got my guy, no one saying a word. Does
anybody else have anybody they want to draft? Because he
(31:21):
said Carlos France, you know, and Carlos could fly. Now
he was tracked. He pulled hamstrings all the time. But
it's just dead quiet and I and this was early too, Yeah,
this was early there. I think this is another reason
why I took a liking to me. No one has anything.
Huh oh, well, I guess I'm the only one who
(31:44):
wants to win around here. So I said, I have somebody.
Mr Davis and Rob Ryan went like, broke the code?
What are you doing? And I saw it because we
I always strategically sat back behind Mr Davis. He would
sit up, you know, up there, let me back here,
and I saw his shoulders. You know, he started laughing
(32:07):
a little bit because like he knew everything. If he
asked you a question, he already knew the answer, and
I know he knew that. Everybody's going around here. Hey man,
don't say it word be you know. So who do
you have? I said, Damario Williams, linebacker from Nebraska. So
back then I didn't know this. I had, you know.
(32:27):
He said, do you have a tape? And one of
the scott says, I have a tape. Well, it was
a kill tape. There was good tapes and there was
kill tapes. It was the kill tape in front in
front of everybody, you know, in front of the you know,
once again, in front of everybody offense, the whole staff personnel.
(32:47):
There's this tape going on. I'm like going, oh my god,
his worst moments, just his worst moments. This is a
kill tape. Yeah, he said, yeah, I know it is.
Kid makes the selection. This is it's the first year.
Because there's another story to it too. Um walks by
me after he makes his pick. That makes a selection.
(33:10):
I said, Kid, I just couldn't turn down that. I
know what they did to you there. That's a kill tape.
I like tomorrow, but I just couldn't turn down that speed. Yes, sir,
Mr Davis, and Rob's like you lucky you still have
a job. I'm like, hey, I had a guy. I
(33:31):
had a guy that was a good pick. And then
remember the running back from Louisville that broke his leg
was gonna be a Heisman winner. Michael Bush. Michael Bush,
Michael So another another situation. This time it was Saturday, Yeah,
Saturday night before we left, and he says, does anybody
(33:52):
have anything? Once again, it's crickets because everybody just wants
to leave. It's crickets. I do, Mr Davis, What Donny?
It brings joy to my heart? What Donny? I said?
(34:13):
I don't want to form anybody else's land. But I've
seen this kid playing high school and if offense doesn't
want him running back, I'll take him a linebacker. We
need to draft Michael Bush. This guy is a stud.
And then you know you'd have to wait for a year.
But huh, that's interesting Tom, because Tom Rath was running
(34:38):
back coast time. You know anything about Yes, sir, I
do Mr Davis make me a tape? I said, already
have a tape right here because I wanted to get
gout again. And and and the next day we drafted him. Yeah,
that's that's like I said, that's the cool part that
(35:01):
I'll never forget about work for Mr Davis. If you
believed in something, you said it. And I took plenty
of beat Trump too, now you know that, like all
all the coaches do and certain journalists definitely, well it's
on my mind. This is kind of a switch. But
you know, you guys went to London and play the Packers.
(35:23):
That was the first time, by the way, two teams
with winning records that ever faced off in London, So big,
big moment for the Brits and everyone's gonna kind of
you know, people will remember that you guys won, and
I referenced blitzing Aaron Rodgers and hail Mary and stuff,
But it turns out the most memorable image from that
(35:43):
game was something else, and that was one of your
I was your nickelback, great kid darn A Holmes um
on the sideline was well, I don't know what he
was getting, but what's going on? And when you saw
that video that came out of him on the sidelines,
(36:05):
what was your reaction. Well, that's the serious reaction, is
that that there was something wrong with this groin. It
was tightening up. It appeared that there was a groin involved.
It was behind He even said, let's go to the
blue tent. Well, I don't know exactly what the rule is,
(36:28):
but there's something about you can't take them to the
blue tent unless there's I don't know if it's a
head injury or head and I don't know what it is,
but you know, so he's now, we'll just do it
right here. So then that that we we didn't even
get on the plane yet, that that was already. I mean,
(36:49):
Twitter is brutal. It is brutal, undefeated and brutal. Uh
So I'm just glad I wasn't anywhere around that. Thank you, right,
because that's a rough day of work. Um. I mean,
you know, you're you're part of the training staff for
(37:09):
an NFL team, but now you've got to get a
player's groin right well, and you're trying to get them
right back on the fields. They don't miss any snaps too,
so what you want the blood to flow? Stop it?
So you're gonna be, You're gonna be. So I'm just
saying so from behind the video like his first of all,
it didn't help darnay that you know, his pants were
(37:31):
kind of pulled down, so there was there was some
exposure there, but you're saying, you're saying it was just
the groy nothing. It wasn't necessarily anything higher than the Okay,
all right, uh so literally, you guys are on the
(37:52):
bus when that started coming out. Oh yeah, I mean
they're passing around playing and everything. It was. It was,
it was pretty fine. It must have been a hell
of a buffer. Luckily you won, so you could really
enjoy no doubt that that that I have such respect
for for Aaron Rodgers, that that was a that was
(38:12):
a really cool game and to be a part of it,
and h like I said, I just had so much
respect for him. Uh, I just hope that they helped
him out as long as I'm not playing against you,
no doubt. Yeah, I know you guys. You guys have
this great mutual respect then going It's cool like me,
(38:33):
you you tend to bond with the people who have
the very extreme personalities, who are considered kind of you
know the words SAPs of the world right like, so, um,
I know one of your all time favorite guys is
Marcus Peters. I covered a preseason game where I believe
(38:54):
he took over for you. He was not playing he
took over for you and ran the defense to the
second half. Yes, he did. That's what. That's where he
doesn't get enough respect. Everybody wants to talk about whatever
besides his He he is a football savant, he really is.
And and from the corner position. You don't see that
(39:15):
very often. You know. You see a lot of guys,
you know, the great ones that you know can make
plays out there, and they study receivers. He studies the game.
And I just I love Marcus Peters. He's a good man.
And uh, you know I sued him, missed, you know,
being around him. But that was a tough one after
(39:37):
we played the Raven seeing him. I made sure I
made that a quick I love you and keep walking
because I'd got two emotional So when you gave him
the headset and had him run the d he's on
the sideline with you. Well, I kept the communication part.
He just tell me what Callie wanted. How did he
do well? He shut him out, shut him out. We'll
(39:59):
see in the record before that was well, well had
three series of three three and ounce whoa. So after
you know, i'd say you want to go again, Yeah,
I'll go again. You know, Mark says, yeah, yeah, and
then he's like, I'm finishing it. You know. I'm like
all right, But you know there's different guys that you
(40:21):
didn't hear about. You know, like Sis was calling plays
and they started gaining yards on Sis and he just
like through the caul sheet and he said, don't want
to do this, You do it, you know, says When
I first met, says, we were I was doing a
workout story in southern California with him and some other guys.
(40:44):
He was very early in his career and UM President
Obama was he had just become president, had given a
speech at Arizona State UM. And it was controversial because
normally when someone kind of gives the graduation speech, they
give him an honorary degree. But they hadn't. They had
(41:05):
not given President Obama the honorary degree. So it became
a thing. And I remember it came up at breakfast
and says said, man, they didn't give him a degree.
Was I went to Arizona State, I passed my classes.
He goes that m Effort went to Harvard. They should
give him five degrees. And you know, just hearing of Cloud,
(41:26):
hearing of Cloud his own school was amazing so yeah,
I can see how says that that's another smart football player, right,
so smart football player, but maybe didn't have the patients
to um, you know, you said you have all the
initials I could I could see says not having the
patients to think through an entire you know, series of
(41:50):
if it didn't work. But it's too early to do here,
you know what I mean, because we're just put in
a new system. But the reason why I do that
is so you can you know, they're sitting on the
back of that plane saying, I want to called this route,
it called that. Then you have those guys that actually
call it say whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not as easy
(42:11):
to think, you know what I mean? And you know,
and it's you know, the guys that know the system
are well like Marcus and and welled and it's is
it too And like I said, this, this is a
football savant uh as well, and he he just knows,
he just knows how to play possible. I'd love to
(42:32):
extend that to beat writers and calumnists too and TV analysts, um,
because you know, many of us think we know scheme now,
and that's I've noticed I actually know that I don't.
But I feel like a lot of my peers, more
than when I broke in, are kind of um presenting
themselves as like experts on scheme and strategies. So, you know,
(42:57):
if you ever, like, you know, you want a couple
of Super Bowls as a head coach and you're feeling
like super secure and you want to just bring down
some media people to call a preseason game, I'd love
to see that. Oh that would be good, wouldn't I'd
be I'd be like, says, what do I call? Hey, Markus?
So you so you're a fantasy league owner? Huh see
(43:22):
if your cop he's worth it. I think also it
would be fun to see media people try to give
coaching points to NFL players in the heat of battle.
You know, I think that that might not be received,
you know, quite as well. But there's a lot of
great people in this in this profession. I mean there
really is. You know, I've gotten to know you for example.
It's just it's, uh, you know, it's it's one of
(43:44):
those things that it's always easier to do, just like
it would be for me, right, you know, like you
think you would be able to do it, like what
we're doing right now. But who knows. I wouldn't know
what questions to ask. I just do. What we're doing
is just things that you and I talked about before
everything else, so well, I do feel like it's people
(44:07):
who are themselves in any context, which I would describe
you exactly that way. It helps because then there's no variability.
Like if you're a TV person and you so like
this on television, but then when you're off TV you
sound like this, it kind of freaks people out. But
if you I just tried when I was at TV
(44:28):
a lot to just be me on TV, you can
tell it too. And it's not for everyone, just like
in person, it's definitely not for everyone. Well, here's what
it is. You know why it's not for everyone because
not everybody's comfortable comfortable in their own skin, like we are, right,
all right? You think this all right? You know what
I mean, I'll prove me wrong. You know, it's just okay,
(44:51):
I would say that. And the natural beauty that we
both possess again male models, yeah, male models, I mean
call us. You know, we ends to be in the
husky division of male models now, but back today I
was straight male model. Yeah, And the reason you're in
the Husky Division, as you said, is because you live
in one of the great food cities, if not the greatest,
(45:12):
of the world, and you're about to get a bunch
of free meals. I think. I mean, look, I don't
know what you like what you just were secretly like
what could this team be this year record wise? But
you know the fact that you got to six in general,
I think it's like pretty exciting and it's gonna get higher. Yeah,
(45:33):
I think that, Uh, the credit goes to players, So
those guys, it's it's re energized me, Mike coming here
and being with just a new group of guys, you know,
the change itself bringing some of my guys you know
with me from Baltimore, Drew and Kevin Wilkins. I got
Johnny Eggs who was with me when I was a
(45:54):
linebacker coach there. And I've known Brian Cox and Dray
Patterson forever and Rome Henderson, our secondary coach. He was
here on the previous staff. I mean, he is a
rock star. So you know, the players play hard, and
the coaches are all standing on even keel like I do.
During the game, something bad happens, we just say okay,
(46:16):
here's how we gotta fix it. Let's go do it,
and they just they just keep answering the bell and
it's it's really fun to watch it, really is. I
love it. Okay, I got a couple of quick ones
for you because you've been amazing and you probably have
to actually go do some. It's fast playing, Yeah, it's
fast fright. First of all, um, you said before you
(46:38):
played Joe Burrow last year, he said, Hey, it's not
like we're measuring him for a gold jacket yet, which
was accurate. He was very young. He seemed to like
he got all fired up about that. Have you guys
hugged it out yet or is that yeah? Yeah, we
hugged it out this year in preseason because they you know,
what are they what do you what? Does media call
it a throwaway line? Yes, okay, it was a throwaway line.
(47:01):
After they explained to me what a throwaway line was.
We were talking. We were talking about Aaron Rodgers and
and Davante and you know about Aaron said that I
gave him a coverage you know that he hasn't ever
seen before and you know, and like you already said,
the mutual respect we have for each other and then
(47:23):
another guy chirps in and said, are you going to
do the same thing for Joe Burrow? While I was
in the middle of a sentence talking about Aaron Rodgers
going to be a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback.
And then when he said it, I just said, well,
I don't think we're getting ready to measure Joe for
Gold Jackie yet. But they have talented receivers. Uh, you know,
he's he's really picked up the offenses second year. You know,
(47:45):
I said it like four other things, compliment and Joe Burrow, Well,
what comes out is we're not ready to fit him
for a Gold Jackie yet. Any youth, just like I did.
You know, I mean every every I think, every coach
and every player that's worth anything in this league finds
a reason u uh, not like somebody that Sunday, you know,
(48:07):
and in preparation and you know, and we've always viewed
ourselves as underdogs as far as I'm saying we as
coaching staff, and I have definitely as as a defensive coordinator.
And I think that's what that's what keeps my edge. Yeah,
and you are getting more media savvy, and the way
I knew that was First, you had a line talking
(48:29):
about last year where you said, I learned don't go
to door dash to get backup cornerbacks, which you know,
you guys were very injury ravaged. Um. But then my
favorite was you did blitz in a preseason game against
the Patriots, which some coaches really don't like, and Belichick
kind of said something about it, and you were going
to get asked about it the next day, and you
(48:50):
were getting ready to play the Bengals, and amasically you
had the greatest possible line picked out to use multiple times,
which is we're on the Cincinnati so, um, you're getting there, man,
You're you're gonna be pretty good at this. Yeah, the
the U. I sometimes I get accused of not respecting punters,
(49:14):
and what I always say is it's not that I
don't respect punters, it's just that I respect them way
less than the other fifty two. Sorry, that's just me. Um,
kickers I respect more, but you know, kickers are still kickers.
But you were with a kicker who I mean, Justin
Tucker is ridiculous. You know, probably the best he's ever
(49:36):
done it? Um? Is he also the cockiest who's ever
done it? Um? I think he might be the smartest
that's ever done it. And I think he uses his
personality to do things like World Farm commercials and things
like that. I think he's very confident and as well
as he should be, uh, because he sticks to his
(49:59):
routine and uh, you know, the biggest thing stands out
is he's got a new long snapper and a new
holder this year, and he's still kicking as well as
he ever has. But I've been fortunately around a lot
of good hunters and kickers throughout my career. We had
Sea Bass and Leckler out there, and and Sam and
and and Justin Tucker there in Baltimore, Sam Cook and
(50:21):
Justin Tucker, and you know, Condo was a long snapper
For some reason, I just I love being around those guys.
I think the biggest reason is is because most of
them are golfers, and we talked golf instead of kicking
and instead of football, and it's just a break for
me when I'm out on the field and special teams
and all that stuff. I talked to him about that
(50:42):
kind of stuff. You know, you're a guy who I
think is finally going to get some head coaching h
hysteria hopefully if it keeps going like this. Um, you know,
I know a lot of coaches who are just like,
I'm not gonna think about it. I'm just gonna put
my head down and try to do good work, and
if it happens, it happens. And then you and I
(51:04):
both know coaches who, uh you know, are thinking about
it all the time, even when they're g a s
and there, you know twenty three. Um, kind of where
are you with that? How do you feel about, you know,
wanting to be a head coach and whether it will happen.
I think earlier in my career, you know, I was
one of those younger guys that said, you know, I
(51:24):
gotta be a head coach. I gotta be a head coach.
I've through my experience, I think that you're wherever you're
at is where you're supposed to be. And uh, you know,
and that's how I feel because there's just so many
variables that go into it. You know, it from govern
at all that you know that it just you just
(51:44):
don't know. It's it's a different league today is what
it was you know ten years back? You know, And
it's one of those things that you know, if you
get the opportunity, you grasp it and take off with it,
just like Dave's has here. Hire the best staff you
can hire, and and great things can happen. And you know,
(52:05):
like you said, we're just in the inf of state,
infant stages of building a program here and it's it's
been a lot of fun doing it. Well. I love it,
and I I am anxious to see it in person
one of these weeks. It will you know, I will
never be able to figure out what you guys are
(52:27):
doing and how this turned around. And uh whatever secrets
you and Dave's and don't even don't even question it.
Just go with it exactly whatever whatever you and Joe
and Dave's and company or whatever sorcery because a rock
star too, now that's right. So yeah, I I hear
that actually, so yeah, whatever you guys have going uh
(52:51):
just um, I don't know, I don't know how if
I should say this at the end, but keep massaging it,
you know, like a guy on the sideline, you have
to go why you have to go back to that.
It's just so easy. Twitter remains are defeated. Thank you
so much, Thank you, Mike
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