Open Mike - Raiders GM Dave Ziegler on beating Broncos, Derek Carr as QB1, role on ‘The Sopranos’

Las Vegas Raiders general manager Dave Ziegler talks to Mike Silver about the dramatic 22-16 overtime win over the Denver Broncos on Sunday. They also discuss Ziegler's time working in New England on the Patriots with legendary coach Bill Belichick, the organization's thoughts on QB Derek Carr, and his short acting career including an appearance on the series finale of 'The Sopranos.' #volume #Herd

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Well, this is a big moment here on
open Mic. We've had big time players, We've had head coaches,
We've had an assistant is probably gonna be at head
coach sud. We have not had a general manager. Uh,

(00:21):
we now have Las Vegas General manager Dave Ziggler. Hello, Dave,
thanks for having me. I'm just I'm excited to break
the break the barrier here be the first GM on
this astounding podcast. I mean, this is good stuff. Well,
I gotta tell you, dude, I'm happy we have you
now because you know, I feel for you. You. You know,

(00:45):
you took this job. You and Josh McDaniels, your longtime friend,
have attacked it and a lot of you know, disappointments
so far. But I know it's a process. You know,
there's been a ton of noise for you guys, and
the NFL is so crazy now. Um, And you know,
as we we noted you and I recently off camera,

(01:06):
half the teams of your division, you and the Broncos,
there's been you know, hysterical proclamations that everybody needs to
get fired. Was it nice when Mark Davis, your owner
came out recently. I just said, look, um, I'm supporting Josh.
He's gonna be back and we're not doing anything crazy here. Yeah,
I think so. I I think, you know, like you said, Mike,

(01:27):
like this, you know, this day and age, that's the
reality of it. You know, You're just things can get
swept up more into a frenzy quicker, um, you know,
with the with the way that you know the media
is right now in Twitter is and all that stuff.
It's just it's not a knock. It's just the reality,
you know what I mean. And so, um, yeah, I
think it was good for the team to hear that

(01:48):
because there was you know, because the noise was out there,
and for Mark to come out and support Josh that
way and support us that way. Um, I think for
the team it was good. You know, it gave them
a sigh of you know, a little bit of a
side like, Okay, we can this is this is the
direction that we're going, and we can buckle down and
focus in on what our job is and trying to
win football games. And so you know, it was appreciative

(02:10):
and I think you know, it beneficial for for the
organization to have that stance of patients too, because the
reality is is when you look at a lot of
the teams that have sustained winning, which is the ultimate goal. Um,
for the most part, there's a there's a huge level
of continuity there. And that continuity didn't come without like
dips in the road, you know what I mean, or

(02:30):
or a season that didn't need expectations to a degree.
And so I think that you have to have some
if you're going to give yourself a chance. You hope
that you hire the right people one and then there
has to be a level of continuity over time to
to allow that thing to grow roots and actually produce
some you know, some success. And that's a good point

(02:51):
because they went through a lot last year, uh in
your building, so it's probably probably the last thing they
want to hear is something involving upheaval. Yeah, I would
think so. Um, you guys went out and made some
moves in free agency and obviously made the big trade

(03:11):
for Davante Adams, um, and that seemed to signal to
a lot of people were in when now mode coming
off at ten Wood season only the second Raider playoff
season in twenty years. But um, you know, a good
performance against the Bengals in the playoffs and a nice
ten and seventh season. Has it just hasn't been harder

(03:31):
to get it rolling, you know, out of the gate
than you thought. Yeah, yeah, I think so. And you know,
there's probably a lot of different variables you can pinpoint.
Um at the end of the day, like you know,
we haven't one enough and so none of us have
done a you know, good enough and none of us
are slapping ourselves on the backs. And we've done a
good job up to that at this point. You know, Um,
in all the areas that we need now, we've done

(03:52):
a good job and with specific things in certain areas,
but um, yeah, there's been some you know, there's been
some challenges along the way, and you know, nobody he
wants to hear excuses and things like that, and so
any reason that you would give, obviously it looks as
an excuse, you know what I mean. But I would say,
like there's always the element of you know, in football

(04:13):
in general, I think when you're when you're building the team, um,
and whether you're whether you're new to an organization or not,
there's always the element of like, if we have the
opportunity to improve the team and get a Davante Adams
and improve the team, uh with a high quality player
that fits kind of what we're looking for in terms
of the traits and all that stuff. You know, those
are opportunities that we want to take advantage of. We're

(04:35):
still building a team at the same time, and I
think you're always still building a team, but you also
want to try to um, you know, win games. You
want to try to win games now too, and and
so you're trying to find the balance of you know,
spending and and and acquiring players to um, you know,
improve the improve the team in the immediate future, but

(04:56):
also making moves and doing some things on the side
to kind to build out a long range because you know,
you have to build it. We don't have every single
piece you know here. It's just that's not how you know,
that's not the reality of the NFL. And so, you know,
we lost a bunch of close games. You know, we
lost the game to Arizona and overtime. UM, you know
we lost. Uh. We threw the through a couple of

(05:18):
passes into the end zone against Tennessee trying to win
that game. Uh, Kansas City, we had a ball, you know,
had the ball with the chance to score and we
just haven't been able to get it done, you know,
quite frankly, for you know, you know there's every game,
there's different reasons why those don't think those things don't happen,
but you know those um, you know, when you have
those things, that takes a toll to you know, on

(05:39):
your on your mentals um in terms of like just
naturally when you lose that as many you know, quick
games and you're you're also at the same time trying
to assimilate a bunch of different people together. Sometimes a
hot start can cover up a lot of different growing
pains that you have with the new regime and a
new organization. And we've had to go through those here
on the front end, um And you know, what I'm

(06:01):
hopeful for, and I think what we're hopeful for is
that we're we're able to continue to progress and show
some improvement here as we go. And some of that improvement,
Mike is going to be seen on the field. Some
of it's never gonna be seen on the field. Some
of its stuff that's happening in the building. You know,
whether it's a about accountability, whether it's about improving the
attention to detail in the organization, whether it's UM, you know,

(06:22):
building your your practice habits, the scouting system, how we
get you know, um, you know, the emphasis we put
on character and background research and how we've changed some
of those things. And so I think we're doing a
lot of good things, UM that are foundational pieces that
you have to have to be successful in the NFL.

(06:43):
A relationship between a head coach and a GM who
are on the same page, who are working together in
a harmonious relationship, and some of those things. So I
think we have a lot of good things that are
being built, UM that I know you have to have
in place to win in the future. UM, we need
to do some better things on Sunday, UM to to
win football games. And and that's the reality because that's

(07:04):
what everybody wants to see and that's what you're judged on.
And so you know, we're gonna keep, you know, keep
pushing and keep being critical of ourselves and keep looking
at our processes and how we can improve it and
evaluate and evolved as we go. And like that's like,
that's what we have to do. That relationship that your
referenced with Josh M. Daniels that goes back twenty six

(07:24):
years to your recruiting trip to John Carroll when he
was a freshman wide receiver. First of all, that's wild. Secondly,
what do we remember about the origin story of you
were Josh? Yeah, Well, like i'd I'd always known of
Josh because he was you know, a KM McKinley and
they were this monster program in Northeast Ohio. Uh that

(07:47):
I think his senior year. They've played Masslin in the
hundredth game. Uh, and that was you know, that was
a big deal. And I actually went to UM they
lost too, They lost to Masslin in the hundredth game
during the regular season. They played him again at the
Akron Rubber Bowl in the playoffs and it was twenty
eight thousand people were at that game and the Rubber
Bowl and they actually didn't let UM. They stopped the

(08:09):
crowd from people from coming in because fire codes and
things like that. I was at the game as a fan,
as a high school junior, just game and so like,
I know who Josh McDaniel is is just from the
notoriety and the and the the notoriety of the programs
and things like that. And so to meet him when
I met him for the first time, UM it was

(08:30):
kind of like, you know, it was this known you
know that I was at a small high school. Um,
so it was like that that's Josh McDaniel was like
he's he's the dude, you know what I mean. And
so it was kind of a little bit of like, um,
not starstruck, you know, but like this is the guy.
You know, I was at a high school that you know,
we get two thousand people to go to the game.
You know, it was a big night, um, And so

(08:52):
that was pretty cool. And then we kind of just
bonded a little bit just our playing styles. We were
both kind of you know, undersized scrappy would go in
there and mix it up, talk trash, you know, blocked
to the whistle, and and we kind of bonded along
those lines. And you know, we would talk trash to
each other and challenge each other and things like that.
So it's kind of a it was a competitive relationship,

(09:14):
but it was um, you know one what was from
back in the day that was built on respect of
just how we kind of played and approached the game.
And um, so that was you know, that was kind
of the origin of you know, how we connected and
what we connected on and then you know, and again
it's it's um, you know, people a lot of people
think Josh and I or we're like best friends, uh

(09:37):
in the sense of like going on family vacations, it's
together and going out to dinner and doing that. It's
it's not necessarily that. I mean, we're close friends. Um,
we are close friends, but um, he had a group
of friends. I had a group of friends. And you know,
we we have some limits, some similarities and differences. But
the really unique thing, I think is just the respect
and like the honesty that we're able to have with

(09:58):
each other. Mean, we've always had that, and now it
manifests itself in a really cool way in this environment
because he can tell me that, hey, that's a really
dumb idea, you know, and I can tell him the
same thing, maybe a more colorful language at times, but
we can do that and it's not like, you know,
you hurt my feelings. I I hurt his feelings, And

(10:19):
so I just really appreciate that and really respect that
about the relationship that we have. That's awesome. So I
have a little intel on this because at the combine,
you and Josh and I sat uh and talked about
this late one night and according to Josh, you were
like the Dante Hall of d three. Uh return men,

(10:42):
And we know you have a lot of school records.
You're you're at a hall of fame. Um. And apparently, like,
first of all, is it true that you never fair
caught a punt? No, No, that's not true. I think
they're in in three years. I think there was two times.
There was two instances where I did fair catch up
on but tried to avoid it at all costs. You

(11:04):
miss a h of the shots that you don't take, apparently,
and you know, our special teams coordinator was you know,
he said, he was like, you know, I wish you
would just fair catch it more. And I said, coach, well,
I can't score if I'm doing that. Like, I didn't
really have any interest in fair catching it because that
took the that took scoring out of the equation. Did

(11:24):
people stand up at home games, like when the other
team was about to punt and you were about to
catch up out like was it oh here we go? Um? Well,
I know my parents did. Uh. I don't know. We
didn't have huge crowds at John Carroll, but I know
that we we had a lot of success um as

(11:45):
a unit, punt returns and kick returns. I mean almost
the majority of them were big returns, and so like,
there was definitely a level of excitement with the team
and you know, and and and the and the people
that were there that like something cool could happen, and um,
you know we we we did it often. Now. I
covered the Niners in the late eighties and nineties as

(12:06):
a Peat writer and then as a columnist, So I
know Merton Haigks very well, and I'm very familiar with
his celebration. So apparently you were doing the Murton Haggs
Chicken Dad's when you would score. Yeah, I loved That's
true story. I loved. I did like Burton Hanks and
I liked his celebration. So I incorporated at the D
three level um to to energy, to inject some juice

(12:29):
into the environment. I'd break out the murten Hates the
mrten Haiks strutt. Every once in a while after a
touchdown there has to be video. I feel like, uh,
and there has to be video. And in the background
of the video they'll be like, oh, hey, like you know,
tons of NFL coaches and personnel people who we all up. Yeah, yeah,

(12:50):
maybe even London Fletcher, former player, Oh yeah, who was
actually announced. He was announced as a semi finalist today
for the NFL the Football Hall of Fame. So author
and support London Fletcher, all you voters out there. Iron Man.
Most consecutive games ever played, two times Super Bowl champ,

(13:11):
All Pro Pro Bowl Guy, thousands of tackles every year. Um,
he deserves to get in. Totally agree with you, and he,
you know, he's one of those guys like Zach Thomas
who was told you're too short, you know, among many others,
right Sam Mills and uh you know, Aaron Donald, you know,
but London Fletcher, you're too short man. And he was like, okay,

(13:34):
I'll just you know, go be one of the best
players of my era. I know, amazing, that's awesome. We
have to get into your acting career and then we'll
go back to football. But I understand there was so illustrious.
That's right. So take us through because you know, you
get out of school and you're trying to figure out
what you want to do and find your way and uh,

(13:57):
you know, apparently you are. You know, you just have
a gift for uh, you know, inhabiting other people's personas
a convincing an audience that you are someone else. That
is very um complementary. Uh. But yeah, the way that
the way that I got into that, um my post

(14:19):
college career, I started as a ninth grade social studies
teacher and coaching high school football one year in Ohio,
and then I moved out to Arizona and I was
a social studies teacher for two more years out there
at an at risk high school, UM for kids that
had been had disciplinaries and stuff issues and things of
that nature, and coach high school football out there. And

(14:39):
so I was on this journey of trying to you know,
figure like you said, figure out what I was gonna do.
And I went back to John Carroll. I coached there
for two years. I got my master's degree in school
counseling at that time, which has come in handy more
often than not in this job too. And um yeah,
and then UM, I ended up at Iona College, which

(14:59):
is in UM New Rochelle, New York, UM. And I
was living actually in the city at the time, and
I was a wide receiver coach there. It was called
like a restricted and they caught it restricted earnings, you know,
when I when do you not kids out there, do
not take a job with the title restricted? Um? That
was that's that's one of those you don't tell your
parents either, Like you don't tell the exact job title exactly.

(15:24):
I was restricted to seven thousand dollars. And so, you know,
I was in New York City and basically saw an
ad for for an agency that was looking for extra
extra work. And I didn't know, really I knew, you know,
kind of what it was. I didn't know what it
entailed or how little money that you made. UM. But
I ended up you know, going to this agency and

(15:46):
you know, getting getting in line with them, and they
would call me for jobs the night before. So I
ended up UM in Law and Order, UM The Born Ultimatum,
the final episode of The Sopranos. Uh. I was an
audience member and a game show called Chain Reaction that
was on the Game Show Network, and so, UM, you know,

(16:06):
did a handful of things over a course of probably
like three months, and then I realized, like this is
hard work, Like you're there for like fifteen sixteen hours
a day sometimes and then it was like seventy five
dollars and I was trying to just make extra money.
I wasn't really I wasn't trying to make a career
in the movie industry. Um. And after a few months,
I was like, man, this is this is not cutting it,

(16:29):
and so I bailed out of it. But um, yeah
I did have Probably the most noteworthy one was Law
and Order because you could actually see me in that one.
The other ones I was like maybe a maybe a
blur kind of walking across the street in the screen.
But yeah, I got to be a reporter in that one.
And it was iced Tea and Ludacrous was on it
because I think it was like a season finale, and um,

(16:52):
I thought I did a pretty good job um as
a reporter. So um that was the That was my
illustrious acting career here. It's good because now when you
get ripped by the media, you have empathy because you've
you've been in that role. Did you get to talk
to ic or Ludicrous? I tried. I am a large

(17:15):
hip hop and rap fan, and so I grew up
on iced Tea and and Ludicrous, you know, and during
college and things like that. Yeah, I tried to squeeze
in there and kind of start some conferences. I just
kind of got pushed to the you know, pushed to
the side like hey, dude, like you're too close to
the real actors, Like can you move back, You're you're

(17:35):
you're you know, disturbing some people. Well you seem to
have an act for finalities because you hit that season finale.
But I gotta stop you because you said Sopranos finale. Yeah,
very very controversial episode. By the way, I would I
would argue the greatest TV show ever. Uh you know,

(17:55):
you could. I think Breaking Bad has has kind of
you know, gotten up there. There's other ones, but can
we could argue, but kind of the thing that started
at all for you kids out there, TV kind of
blue movies were cool, and TV kind of blew all
through the last century, and then the Sopranos came like
at the end of the century, and now TV is awesome. Basically, so,

(18:16):
what what did you do? What was your what was
your blip on the Sopranos? I was I was a
guy walking down the street, um is what I was.
And so just a random guy. I think I forget
what the I forget what the scene actually was. I
think the scene led into some not the final thing

(18:37):
at the diner where there was a shooting but some
type of some type of shooting that took place, and yeah,
I was just, Um, I was just a random guy
walking down the street. So when you would watch these
episodes after the fact, would you make like, you know,
women you knew or friends or family members like watch
with you and be like, there it is. I should have.

(18:59):
I didn't because I I really quickly realized after I
think the Born Ultimatum one where I was like, Okay,
you know I'm gonna I'm in this. I'm again I'm
walking down the street and like I can never find myself.
So I didn't want to embarrass myself in front of others,
like you know, kind of you know, making this a
bigger deal than it was for us to just you know,

(19:20):
not really be able to see my face. So now
I know some of my friends, I think used it
for themselves and like they knew a guy. I have
a friend that's an actor this and that to kind
of spur up some conversations. Um, but no, not for myself.
I never I never benefited. Important question when you watched
the Sopranos finale, um, aside from your impressive stint as

(19:46):
a guy walking down the street. What do you think, Um, well,
the ending. You know, I wanted finality, right, So I
wanted to feel like I really you know, I knew
what I knew it happened, and so I was disappointed
in that because I didn't like the open endedness of it.
That's just me personally. I would have liked to seem like, Okay,

(20:10):
here's how it. Here's after all these years and all
these seasons, like this is how it ended, and uh,
we didn't get that, and so like that was disappointing
for me. I agree with you. In fact, I think
I tweeted like, hey, David Chase about that Sopranos ending.
I mean, you know, it's ridiculous, like come on, tell me,

(20:30):
and also like I need you know it's not it
wasn't a subtle show, like there were amazing subtleties, but like,
you knew what was going on, So tell us what's
going on? I haven't. I have a controversial take. By
the way, I liked the Seinfeld finale, and I may
be the only one. I remember watching it at a

(20:50):
friend's house and um, I know she was like she
was she a friend of mine. It was actually a
friend of mine and a buddy of mine. Um, they
were like all discipline pointed and distraught about the ending,
and I was kind of like, you know, it is
what it is. Yeah, I don't think offense to it. Yeah,
I kind of thought it was great. He's back to
him stand up, you know, you know, cracking on his

(21:12):
friends from cell block. See and know. Yeah, I mean
I was okay with it. It kind of been worse, exactly.
We've seen worse. All right. Let me do one more
non football question, because you alluded to it. You were
a school guidance counselor and and those skills are coming
get handed. Now, what do you have one moment from
your career as a guidance counsel where you're like, whoa,

(21:34):
this is pretty surreal, Like how am I in this situation? Yeah? Yeah,
you know I I again, I don't want to be uh,
I don't want to be a downer of any sort,
but we don't like dealt with some heavy stuff. Um,
you know, during during the times that during the years
that I was a counselor, and so you know, just
a lot of the problems that you know, um kids

(21:55):
face today. Um, we're a lot of the things that
I deal with, whether it was drug addiction, uh, and
having to talk to a family and having someone uh
you know, having someone have to come clean you know,
of something that they tried to hide you know for
a period of time, and seeing the emotion in the
room you know when when those types of things happened,

(22:16):
was really intense. Had a couple of instances where you know,
someone lost someone close to them both a parent you know,
or or and or a parent losing a child and
and so you know there's some really um, some real
heavy stuff that um, you know that that I you know,
went through with with families and and with students and

(22:39):
things like that. And again I think, you know, I
think Mike, for me, like a lot of that stuff
helps me now, um, just from from a perspective standpoint,
you know, and keeping things in perspective day to day
and uh you know, like you know, like don't sweat
the small stuff, you know type of mentality and and
so uh, you know, I learned to learn a lot

(23:01):
of things going through those situations and just being a
guidance counselor in general. Um, but yeah, a lot of
those you know, a lot of those heavy things when
you're twenty and you know, you know, you're twenty seven,
twenty eight years old, and I haven't even experienced those
things in my own life. You know, I've very been
very fortunate that way, and so, um, those are some
really surreal experiences of trying to to lead, uh lead

(23:24):
in those in those types of circumstances. Let's go back
to football. You guys came in and I kind of
was monitoring this because you know, I've known you for
a while and I'm I'm I'm rooting for you. And
at first the new league or the legal tampering period
starts and there's all these moves getting it out, and listen,

(23:46):
I fell into this trap all those years that the
NFL network, where I would be on TV all the time,
we root for naturally aggressiveness at big moves, and it's
not always the right thing to root for in retrospect,
but I'd rather know that a team is taking swings
as opposed to just sitting back. And I used to
have the gag where I was Ted Thompson doing the

(24:07):
crossword puzzle and you know, may rest in peace. But
so in the beginning you didn't do anything for I
don't know how it wasn't that long. But it wasn't
that long, felt like three weeks. I think it was like, yeah,
so forty eight hours of nothing from the Raiders and
people were breaking. They were like, oh my god, what

(24:32):
are these guys doing? Are they gonna do anything? Because
the rest of your division was popping and then all
and then all of a sudden, Eric came Dave Ziggler
wheeling and dealing. So yeah, just take me through how
how you experienced those first forty eight hours and what
happened afterwards. Yeah, like you said, there was you know,

(24:52):
there was a lot of moves being made, you know,
for from the other teams in our division. And you know,
we were we we were um you know again I'd say,
strategically trying to be you know, trying to be patient.
It wasn't that we weren't like doing anything at all.
We were doing things. Some of those things didn't come
to fruition because the price of doing business got too high, um,

(25:13):
in certain circumstances and so um, yeah, my and I
told the story like my friends weren't like hammering me
with a bunch of the stuff that was on Twitter,
like me in a clown face and there's probably some
more of those out there right now actually, um, and
you know, asleep at the wheel of a car and
all this different stuff. And so you know, I knew
that the I knew that the heat was out there.

(25:35):
But you know, you're just trying to look for you know,
look for the right situation. And then that Davante Adams thing, uh,
you know came, um came to fruition. It looked like
it was something that we were going to be able
to do that organizationally, we felt was a good decision.
And UM, so that was the first one which really
wasn't a free agency thing. It was just it was
during the period of free agency. Um. And so you

(25:57):
know that came together and um, you know a handful
of other moves. And I would say, like, like you
said it, like the reality is is you don't really
want to be a big player in free agency. UM.
A lot of times when you're a big big player
in free agency, it's because of you know, either roster
holes that you have because of prior free agent signings
that didn't work out, or most likely it's because the

(26:19):
drafts haven't went your way over a period of time.
And so because that core group of young players hasn't
hasn't developed within your organization. You have to go out
and fill those holes in free agency. And so um,
I would say, like, what what really we want to be?
What what really where we really want to be at
is not being you know, taking a whole bunch of

(26:40):
aggressive swings and free agency. I think where you really
want to be is taking calculated swings in free agency.
It doesn't make your I'm not saying you don't make
a big signing, but it's calculated for your team and
you're not really trying to fill out the roster and
free agency and um, we're we were in that cycle
right now, and it's gonna take us a little a
little bit of time in terms of drafting, um, you

(27:01):
know Las Vegas Raiders and building that young core where
we're not in it. Um. But yeah, there is an
element of excitement when you're doing it, um that you
can you know, that that you get caught up in
and that you enjoy because there's some juice there, you know,
when you're making these signings and you're feeling like improving
the team. But like you said it, a lot of times,
you you know, these teams that take these big swings

(27:22):
and have all these signings and free agency, you get
to later in the year and oftentimes they didn't come
to fruition. And that's natural because you're taking a lot
of people that were raised in another organization, UM, that
grew up in another system, different coaches and things like that,
and you're trying to put all those pieces together and
just roll with them. It's not that easy, as um.

(27:43):
You know, historically we found out that's a good point.
And you you spent all those years in New England,
which you know had has had twenty plus years of
sustained success, you know, freakish, unprecedented, and you know a
lot of times people like me would get frustrated and say,
hey man, you've got Tom Brady, go out and get everybody.

(28:04):
And you know, you did it in two thousand seven
and that predated you. But Randy Boss and Wes Welker
and them, and then other years it didn't happen. A
couple of years ago, coming off that rough season, the
Patriots kind of went wild and free agency and I
was like John Hoosmith, I love Johnny Smith. I just
thought that was the greatest signing ever so far. Has

(28:27):
it proven to be and then you know Matthew jude On.
I was like, yeah, I could see that, but he
really is hasn't been a sack guy. And again I
was wrong on that. So far he's been a huge
bat player. But no, you're right. I mean, I think
you know, having I guess you haven't been in New
England for all those years with Bill. Does that make

(28:48):
you more prone to say, let's set our value and
look for value as opposed to try to win the
hearts of the Mike Silver's on tv UH in March.
I think so, and and and I think, like you
said it, that sustained success um that they've had in
New England is what UM, A lot of people strive for.

(29:09):
And that's what we're striving for, and a lot of
teams across the league are striving for. UM. That's the
Saints that sustained success. And and so yeah, I learned
a lot during that time of like, you know, patients,
building your roster through the draft, um, you know, or
alternative ways you know, whether it's a trade or whether
it's a guy off a practice squad or a player

(29:30):
that was cut from their team and things like that,
and um, just being calculated in free agency, and and
and trying to find the right guy that fits a
specific role for your team, and and and and when
there's an opportunity to strike. Um. You know, at one point,
while I was in New England, we signed Gilmore, you
know stuff on Gilmore to to a big deal at

(29:50):
the time. Um, and and and he was the right player.
He was a young player. You know, you would we
invested in a young player that was I think you know,
X was still ascending, really good character traits, really good
football trades and UM, those guys are few and far
between in free agency. Those guys usually don't get to

(30:10):
free agency, UM in a lot of cases. And so um,
that was a really smart signing by Bill at the time,
and it proved to be really valuable for New England.
So again there's a balance there. I don't want to
say that you don't do anything, UM, I just think
you want to be you know, you want to be
calculated and and and we were able to do that
in New England because there was a lot of years, um,

(30:30):
where there was a lot of good draft the mcquarity's
high towers, Jamie Collins, you know, going back for way
farther from when I was there, Vince will Fork and
you know, there was a lot of these poor, poor
players that were there where you didn't have to feel
like you were going to free agency to build your team.
That's a great point. Well, one of the things you
did in Vegas is you identified some core players and

(30:53):
extended them and paid them. Uh. Derek Carr obviously the
biggest of the names. But Max Crosby, who you know
is obviously we noticed him. Yeah, how to Rent Fro,
Darren Waller. Uh, you know what was your thinking behind
those booths? Yeah, I think just what you said, we're
you know, there was an opportunity there. Those guys all
really productive or had been productive in past seasons and

(31:16):
so um, you know, it was an opportunity we felt
to to kind of get this nucleus of offensive players
in car In, Renfro and Waller uh that had been here.
And then Max on the defensive side. He was a
young player who's still kind of who's he's obviously still ascending,
and so it was an opportunity we felt like to

(31:37):
kind of get this, you know, a core group of
players together that had worked together, that had played together, Um,
that had built some continuity together and and have them
uh you know, and and kind of you know, um
nail those guys down, um as foundational pieces. It's been
you know, the game of football. You can't predict what's
gonna happen from injuries and that stuff. And for for us,

(32:00):
it hasn't really it hasn't come together at this point because, UM,
we've you know, Hunters dealt with some injuries, Darren's dealt
with some injuries, and we really haven't had the opportunity. UM.
I think and I think we talked about this. I
think you know, between UM, Darren, Derek, Josh Jacobs, um Davante,
like those guys have only been on the field together

(32:20):
for you know, under seventy snaps this year, and so
we haven't really been able to build the continuity that
we hope to build. Um, you know, because of the
natural parts of the game, because of injuries, and you're
gonna deal with that at different times and you know,
it's it's everybody deals with it. But you know, that's
been unfortunate, you know, in terms of what we were
hoping to have together and what how it's come together

(32:40):
here during the season. You know, I've watched Derek kind
of bleeding all over the place publicly after some of
these defeats. I know he cares so much, and he's
been through a lot with the organization, different regimes, different coaches, UM,
a lot of losing, couple of winning seasons, and he's
done a lot of really good things. Where what are

(33:01):
your guys thoughts organizationally about your quarterback right now? I
think you you hit a lot of it. Um. Just
the one thing about Derek is he's he's just high character. Um.
Hard not to like Derek carr Um as a human being,
as an as a person, because, um one, he's a
good person too. He's very passionate about football. He's you know,

(33:21):
he is passionate about the Raiders. Like you said, he's
been through a lot of things during his time here,
and um, you know, he's done a really nice job
of of again he's of learning our system and I'll
go back, he's had a lot of offensive coordinators throughout
his career too, and he's been forced to learn a
lot of new systems while playing one of the hardest

(33:42):
positions in professional sports. And so, um, you know, there's
there's there's growing pains with that when you have to
learn a new system, and he's done a good job
I think of being patient and learning the system. It
hasn't been seamless and hasn't been you know, a perfect
a perfect um process, which it shouldn't be. I don't
think it is. It's not for anybody when you're learning

(34:04):
something new. And so he's done a really good job
of of of learning the system, creating relationship with Josh,
working through some of the you know, the kinks that
come come with learning a new system and then having
to go produce it on the field with a bunch
of new players to might mind you you know, there's
a lot of new players on offense, uh that we
signed uh you know, based on a lot of expiring

(34:27):
contracts that were that were in place when we came in.
And so um, you know, he's done a good job
and just that assimilation process you saw in this week
battle um in overtime and come through with an overtime victory,
which he's done quite quite often in his career. And
so um, you know, we're just we're just continuing to
progress forward and you know, learn each other and takes
the small steps that we need to take to continue

(34:49):
to build something here, and you've got a lot of
production from Josh Jacobs. One of the moves you made
was not picking up his fifth year option, which I
think sometimes the end fel people freak out about that,
not knowing it's you know, it's an appreciable rise, and
it doesn't mean necessarily, oh this guy's gone. It just
means we haven't seen the value yet potentially. Um, some

(35:12):
players though kind of go into a shell. He seems
to have done the opposite and and just come out running, running,
gagre or whatever has he has. He played his way
into a different place organizationally. Yeah, I think, like you said,
there was you know, there's an element of getting to
know the player as a person and getting to know

(35:35):
the player on the you know, on the field too,
and and you know as well as I know, the
running back position, Um, it's a tough It's one of
the toughest positions to play in football. Uh, it's tough
on the players bodies. Uh. You know, you've seen, you know,
we've seen different examples of players kind of rise and fall. Um,
you know quickly at the running back position, and so um,

(35:56):
you know, there's a there's an element of there's a
I think there's an element across the NF fell not
just here, across the NFL of kind of being cautious,
you know with some of those things. And uh, Josh
is just like you said it. He's done really a
remarkable job of how he's handled it because you can
you can go to different ways with that, and um,
Josh has really just been laser focused on improving, UM,

(36:19):
taking our coaches, taking the coaching points of the coaches
have given to him on ways that he can improve.
And he's also been just he's like really talented. But
his ball security has really improved this year. That's something
that UM, we really wanted to focus on with him,
and he's done a good job of taking those coaching points,
his past protection, his route running, UM he's taking he's

(36:41):
taking his game to a I think to a different
level this year in just terms of balancing it out.
And then the kid that the kid in himself, he comes,
he comes to work every day, he practices very hard.
He's very diligent about taking care of his body. UM.
He's not a he's not a you don't hear him
very often. He's not a personality. UM, but he's just

(37:02):
he's just doubt and focused every day. I just really
enjoy seeing him work, seeing his professionalism. Um, he's out
there every day, he's in. He doesn't come out during
the game. He wants the ball consistently, and so it's
been awesome to see. It's been awesome to get to
know him. He's a he's a good young man. He's
still young. He's still young too. Um, you know he's
been in the league for a while, he's like twenty

(37:23):
five years old. Because he came in so young and
so um, he's done a really good job. And I think, yeah,
we've all been impressed with what he's done this year.
And keep picturing that scene and Jerry McGuire after the
rod Tidwell thing where you know Tom critis sister Glenn
Fry of the Eagles who was playing the GM. Uh,
you know it's gonna cost you, and he's like, I

(37:43):
know that would be that would be a good thing.
If Josh Jacobs, like you know, got to the end
zone like for the twentieth time, it was like, I'm all,
I'm all for his success exactly. So, Um, you went
to Denver with Josh, Josh was there. I think a
year earlier, back in two that's how you started your

(38:07):
scouting career, I believe. Um, you know, that was a
tough year for Josh. You didn't make it through the end.
There was a lot going on organizationally. You know, Mr
Bolland was was sick at the time, which people didn't
really know publicly. Um, what what did you guys learn
from from that experience? And it was it was a

(38:27):
whirlwind for me because, like you said, it was my
first year in the NFL, So I was just trying
to figure out like my job and how to do
it um proficiently, to keep it um and so there
was a lot of me just trying to figure it out.
So there was all that other stuff going on. I
wasn't as dialed into to to kind of like, you know,
what it was and where it was going in terms

(38:49):
of the season, because I was just again focused on
just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do
as a scouting assistant. Not mess up an airport pick up,
um or or something of that nature. You're part of
a job, he said, yeah, exactly. So, to be honest
with you, I didn't gain as much perspective in the

(39:10):
moment of like what was happening and what it meant
and what the lessons to be learned? You know from
that situation what was because I was again I had
a different focus at the time. I think Josh has
talked about it a lot with you and with me
all sitting around together, uh at different times. I think
the biggest thing that I know he took away from

(39:31):
it was the relationship piece and and how important, um,
just building the relationships within an organization is to sustain
success and to create buying and things of that nature.
And and that was something like, again, people forget Josh
was thirty two years old, and you know, there's there's
a lot of perspective that you don't have a thirty

(39:54):
two that you have at forty six years old, just
just naturally, I think we all do. And so that
was one of the big takeaway is that he had
going there and coming here is just is focusing on
the relationships. And he's been phenomenal in that regard. And
I think you saw some of if you watched UM
there was a video after our game from the locker

(40:14):
room and the response of the players and just you
it's it's just that you saw a natural thing. You
can see like there's buy in there. You can see
that Josh cares about the players. You can see the
characters excuse me, the players, UM care about Josh and
and and and and you can without being in the
building every day. I think from that video you can

(40:36):
see like there's a relationship there and that's a big
thing that that he's focused on. And UM, he's helped
me out in certain situations. You know, there's certain situations where, UM,
I've wanted to do, you know, fly off the handle
at something or someone, UM, and he's told me, like, dude, relax,
you know, like there's a different way like I approached that.

(40:56):
I've approached it, uh in my time in Denver, a
sert way. And I'm just gonna tell you you can
do it. It's a really bad idea. You might want
to think about it doing it this way. And so
you know, he's I think that's been the biggest, the
biggest change. He's always been a brilliant football mind. Um,
he's always understood offense, defense, special teams, the whole deal.
And so that's that's the area that I think we've

(41:18):
taken with us and tried to UM, do a really
good job here. Well, it's it's interesting because that brings
us to another one of your former busses slash collaborators, Bill,
who I used to be pretty close with, had a
long run where you know, we talked a lot that
we had a falling out. We and now we don't talk.
But you know, I kind of appreciate Bill as a

(41:40):
multi fascinated character. And yet you know, Bill doesn't have
time a lot of times for pleasant trees in certain
certain situations. How did how did you, guys, because you're
you're such a people person, how did the relationship involved
with you guys, especially when you were the main personnel guy?

(42:01):
And uh did he ever just lose it on you? Um? Well, yeah,
I was there for a long time and and at
the beginning, you know, I was uh PRO, I was
assistant director of Pro Scouting, and you know there's you know,
there's a lot of other people that are you know,
I shouldn't say a lot. Bills always had his core
group of people at different times in his career and

(42:22):
and you know, as assistant director PRO, I wasn't you know,
in that core. But um, you know, I think the thing, Um,
I hope the thing that Bill would say and that
I felt it is that our relationship was. I just
tried to be as honest as possible. UM. Whenever I
was asked a question, whenever I was asked my opinion, UM,
I always just tried to give my opinion UM off

(42:43):
the work that I did and and not UM and
not trying to give an answer that I thought someone
wanted to hear. And and I and and I hope
that that you know is UM. That allowed me to
build some respect within the organization and allowed me to uh,
you know, advance and grow in the in organization. You know,
it's funny with Bill like he I never really saw
Bill loses cool. UM building is so subtle with just

(43:07):
you know, with with his persona, UM that he can
he can put a dagger, He could throw a dagger
at you without even raising his voice. And what I
mean by that is that UM, for me, like I
have such a and I think a lot of people
feel that this way. He's accomplished so much in this business. UM,
and he's he's like just you know, ungodly success. That

(43:31):
the level of respect that I have for Bill, and
a lot of people have for Bill that worked with
him is through the roof. You know. It's just just
because of what he's done and just seeing him, how
he works every day, how he manages the building, how
he manages the team, all the knowledge that he have.
I just never wanted to disappoint Bill. You know. It
was almost like a parent. You know, you don't want
to disappoint your dad, or if your dad says your

(43:52):
parents says, do you like, Hey, I'm that's disappointing if
that's the dagger, right, And that's kind of how I
always felt with Bill, was just did not want to
disappoint Bill. I would read an email three times before
I sent it to Bill because I didn't want to
there to be a word misspelled, you know. And and
so I can remember I did have an advanced scouter
report at one time that as a pro scout, you

(44:14):
produced for um, you produced for the next opponent. And
he called me in and said, hey, UM, you know
where's so and so, Like, we're's so and so scouting
report here? And Um. For some reason, there was an oversight.
I didn't have one of the players on the team's
scouting report in the scouting report that I had passed

(44:35):
out to the staff. And it was as simple as
saying like, come on, can we just get this right
that that that's all it takes. You know, he doesn't
need to raise his voice. That right there was like
you know, that was in the tank for a couple
of days where just after that subtle comment, so that
that's really what the you know, the relationship is. And

(44:56):
and uh, you know, I'm very fortunate to be able
to um have an opportunity to advance, to get closer
to him, to have more you know, specific football conversations
at the end of my career. And and I can
tell you the opportunity that I had the last year
I was in New England, UM really set me up
to be able to um go into an interview for

(45:17):
a job like this and be prepared for it, um
by just being around him and seeing how he operates,
seeing how he thinks, UM, seeing that what he what
he demands in terms of attention to detail and things
like that. And it was, uh, you know, I wouldn't
be here, I wouldn't be have the job that I
have today if it wasn't for working with for Bill.
That's a very small draft room. I don't know if

(45:40):
people realize what year, did you finally get inside the
draft room in the draft? Good question. I think it
what It took a couple of years. It might have
been like my fourth or fifth year before I I
got in, and my first my job, my job at
that time was to do I was in charge of
knowing the needs of all the other teams, and um,

(46:03):
you never knew when um, And it didn't happen often,
but it could happen at any time where all of
a sudden Bill would say, hey, you know, okay, Tampa's
on the clock. Uh, and Dave, who do you think
they're gonna be taken here? And you have to have
an answer? And I know the first time he ever
asked me that question, I think the response was a
lot of like mumbling and uh, like um, um, you know,

(46:27):
trying to find my way because it caught me off
guard and um to come up with a response after that,
though every year I was utterly I was. I was,
you know, very prepared in detail for any of those
types of questions. Um. Yeah, But it took a while.
And then I'd say, when I got in, it was
you know, minor involvement. Um, it was, it wasn't. I

(46:47):
didn't speak unless I was spoken to and Um, but
it was cool to be able to just to sit
back and see how it all comes together and really
watch him and Nick work, you know for the most part. Um,
during those times, I would argue that of all the
gangster things that he has done, the dog sitting up
on the you know, in the chair with the laptop

(47:10):
during the virtual draft, uh in that tucket might be
the greatest thing I've ever seen. I mean, it was
so good Nike was making picks that I mean, like
then you're just you know, because it's Bill, you go,
did Bill train the dog to just sit there chilling
like he might be making the picks? And you know

(47:31):
it was just a cutaway too, so like I think
it's said Bill Belichick on the screen. That was awesome.
Now you are adjusting to Mark Davis, a new owner
for you. Um. You know, he's a guy who obviously
lives it and breathes it and wears his emotion on
his sleeve. Um, do you you know what's it like

(47:53):
after a rough loss after a game? Is he you know,
is he kind of emotional because he cares so much?
Or is he bore analytical? What are those conversations like
I would say, a lot of passion, Like you know Mark,
he does the Raiders are are so important to him
and his family. And it's not just the Raiders. It's

(48:14):
like the alumni are super important to Mark. Um. Raider
nation is super important to Mark, and so um you
know Mark, Um, you know he you know, he wants
to win every game and and so. And Mark also
has a lot you know, Mark has a football background too.
I mean he's been around a lot of football. He's
been around you know, his dad. And so it's not

(48:36):
that Mark doesn't Mark you know, he knows about game
management situations and you know, how things played out or
how he thought, you know, how he thinks they should
play out and things of that nature, how to handle
time outs and how you know who's on the field,
and so, um he has um, you know, he has
a football acuum to himself. And so it's not like
he's coming out of left field with what you know,

(48:57):
what his thoughts and emotions are after a aime. Um,
But there is a motion there. Um, there is passion there,
and UM, I mean I love it, you know, I mean,
obviously I would rather have been on the opposite side
of a lot of the games that we've been on
this year. UM, and so um, you know that it
is what it is, But I think it's it's it's

(49:19):
I I feel I get energized working for someone that
has those high standards and it has that passion um
and because it shows that they care, you know, and
they want to win and so um, yeah, you know
it could lead to some uncomfortable conversations when you're not winning. Um,
but you know that he's you know, you know that, Um,

(49:40):
you know that he he wants to win. And I
think that's the most important thing. And uh, he's it.
Marks are just a great human being. Like if you
haven't met Mark Davis, Mark Davis is just a great person. Um.
And he's he treats people with respect. He could go
into any he could go into any restaurant, any bar
across America and and fit right in and I mean that,

(50:01):
and like he's a very humble person, you know what
I mean. He holds himself and and um, he doesn't
hold himself above other people, and he doesn't treat people
that like they're less than him. And I really it's
hard not to respect and just want to fight and
want to do every everything you can for a person
like that. Well, you're not only the first GM we've had,

(50:21):
but I think we're coming up on the time record.
So I'm gonna leave you with one more because you've
been amazing. Um. You know, there was a report that
the Packers tried to trade for Darren Waller before the
trade deadline. And I know gms have a million speculative
conversations that may or may not be you know, real
or close. Um, did you get any uh wild like

(50:46):
you know, you know, overtures before the trade deadline with
teams trying to be like, hey, this is the first
time GM, maybe he'll trade to be so well good
for not that much. Um. There was a couple of
it's gonna just can like the Sopranos episode. You're not
gonna know like the envy, right, But there was a
couple there was a couple of I would say wild,

(51:08):
you know, wild trade offers that were um, I wouldn't
say like taking advantage like they weren't for for um,
you know, for peanuts or anything like that. Um, but
just some things that were yeah, a little bit out there,
um uh, pretty aggressive thoughts and things of that nature,
which you know, I respect um, and that happens every year,

(51:29):
you know what I mean, like it just they never
come out into the media and neither well thease either. Um.
But yeah, there was some there was some people that
were testing the waters of how far, how far I
would go? I love it? Um. They moved the trade
deadline back finally a few years ago, UM to maybe
you know, get more in the lot and more in

(51:51):
line with the mentality of the new Guarden gms like
you guys who aren't so trade a verse. Would you
like to see it moved further into the season, I
mean just in the and from this point alone, they
extended the season a week, so the season goes a
week later, but they still haven't moved the The trade
deadline didn't even move back a week later. So at

(52:12):
the very least, I think moving it back a week,
uh you know, would would um line up with how
the you know again the the how they have extended
the season. Um, but I think, yeah, I would like
to see it moved back. I think, like you, you
would have a better teams would have a better idea
of where they are, you know, in terms of where
the seasons at. Um. And and I think it would

(52:33):
be It would probably be a little bit more um,
maybe give even more excitement to the league because there
would be more opportunities where teams would know where they're at.
There would be more buyers or more sellers and and
potentially more buyers. That would elicit more activity, which I
know is exciting for fans and things of that nature.
But um, just from a football perspective, I think it
would allow UM teams to have a better idea of

(52:56):
where they're at, UM, and and that would facilitate I think,
you know, um, you know better, you'd be able to
make some more educated decisions about your team that would
help in the in the you know, either the building
or the rebuilding of your team, whatever which whichever way
it goes. So yeah, I'd be a proponent of that. Well,
we agree on that. Sadly we will not publicly get

(53:17):
the revelation of what was dangled. It's kind of like
a born identity. Uh vibe Well days, Thank you so
much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Was awesome.
I appreciate you, buddy. Have a good day.