August 5, 2022 • 38 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, here again with his reoccurring series is Hair of the Dog to Paint the Town Red: The Curious Origins of Everyday Sayings and Fun Phrases author, Andrew Thompson, as he continues to share another slice from his ultimate guide to understanding these baffling mini mysteries of the English language. It all went down in the city of Benton Harbor, Michigan, in 2006. Andrew Collins was a narcotics officer. Jameel McGee was a new father of a baby boy. This is a story about forgiveness, brokenness, and true reconciliation from two guys who should have been hardened, bitter enemies.
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Time Codes:
00:00 - “Peeping Tom” and the Wonderful Origins of Everyday Expressions
10:00 - A Crooked Cop, An Innocent Man, And An Unlikely Journey Of Forgiveness And Friendship
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is our American Stories,
and we tell stories about everything here on this show,
including your stories. Send them to our American Stories dot com.
There's some of our favorites. Up next, we continue with
our recurring series about the curious origins of every day
sayings the stories behind them. Here to join us again
(00:31):
is Andrew Thompson as he continues to share another slice
from his Ultimate Guide to Understanding these mini mysteries, these
mini stories of our precious English language. Out of the
blue means a complete or unexpected surprise, and it's a
variation of the expression a bolt from the blue. The
ancient Romans called a flash of lightning on a clear
(00:53):
day a thunderbolt from the blue. The blue in the
phrase is related to the blue of the sky. Lightning
on a sunny day was obviously very rare, and the
Romans began to use the saying to refer to any
sudden surprise. The phrase was first used in writing by
Thomas Carlyle in a book he wrote in eighteen thirty seven.
The expression over the top, sometimes shortened to ott, means
(01:17):
to an excessive degree or beyond acceptable limits or outrages,
and it has its origins in trench warfare in World
War One. To go over the top was to charge
on foot across open ground from the safety of the trenches.
The order was given over the top lads and the
best of luck, but few had much luck, as they
often ran head on into enemy machine gun fire. On
(01:41):
the first day of the Battle of the Psalm in
July nineteen sixteen, over fifty eight thousand casualties were sustained
by the British when they all went over the top
to paint the town. Read means to go out and
celebrate or get very drunk, and he owes its origins
to a legendary night of revelry. In eighteen thirty seven
(02:01):
there was a man called the Marquis of Waterford, known
as the Mad Marquess because of his erratic behavior, and
he went out one night in the English town of
Melton Mowbray. The group went berserk on vandalism spree, and
they broke windows, pulled off door knockers, and smashed flower pots.
Unsatisfied with that, though, they acquired some red paint and
painted at Swan statue, a number of house stores and
(02:23):
even a toll gate completely read the marquess later paid
conversation for the damage caused, but he had painted the
town red and would never live it down. A parting
shot as a hostile gesture or remark made while departing
which the person hearing has no chance to respond to.
And it's a phrase I've always found interesting. It dates
(02:44):
to a military tactic from the seventeenth century the Parthians
at the time when ancient race living in northeast Persia
and their army include mounted archers. These archers would ride
away from the enemy at full gallop given the impression
of a retreat, but as the enemy approached, the archers,
who were superber Questrians, would turn and fire arrows backwards
(03:05):
with great accuracy. Originally no one as a path in shot,
the phrase was corrupt a departing shot by the early
twentieth century. To pass the buck means to shift blame
or responsibility as someone else, and it originates from the
game of poker. Poker became popular in America during the
eighteenth century, and players were always suspicious of any form
of buyers or cheating. To stop this, the card dealer
(03:28):
was frequently rotated during a game, and the person who
was next in line to deal was given a marker,
which was often a knife. The handles of most knives
at the time were made of buck's horn, so the
marker became known as a buck. When the dealer's term
was complete, he would pass the buck. President Harry S.
Truman famously displayed a sign on his desk that read,
(03:49):
the buck stops here, and that gave rise to the
expression and made it more commonplace. To pass with flying
colors means to have success at a difficult task, and
it's a sailing term that dates back to the early
seventeen hundreds. A ship's flag or banner was known as
its colors, and when a ship or fleet was successful
in battle and was returning to its homeland, it would
(04:10):
sail in with its flag flying high on the mast.
This indicated that the ship had been victorious. It had
retained its flag rather than lost it to the enemy.
To pass with flying colors was a sure sign of victory.
To pay through the nose means to pay in excessive
amount for something, and it's got to interesting and strange origins.
(04:30):
It dates all the way back to the ninth century
when the Vikings invaded Ireland. The Danish had extraordinary harsh
tax laws which they imposed on any land they invaded.
With the invasion of Ireland, they applied a particularly harsh tax,
known as the nose tax. The punishment for evading the
nose tax was quite perverse. Anyone refusing to pay the
(04:51):
tax had their nose slid from tip to eyebrow. The
people had a choice either pay the tax or pay
through the nose. Pecking order is a hierarchy or authority
in a group, and it's a phrase that began with
the farming of chickens. Domestic poultry maintain a strict hierarchy
where the lead hen is able to peck any other
(05:12):
for whatever reason without fear of retribution. The other hens
are ordered beneath the lead hen, and each of them
know which hens are lower than them and thus able
to be packed. This cascade's down to the lowest hen,
who gets pecked by all the other hens. It was
German biologists who were observing this behavior who coined the
phrase pecking order in the nineteen twenties, and it went
(05:34):
on to take its wider meeting by the nineteen fifties.
A peeping tom is a man who secretly observes women
who were naked and its origins lie in the story
of Lady Godiver in the eleventh century. She was married
to an earl who owned large landholdings, and he imposed
heavy taxes on the less wealthy, which was old in
(05:54):
public outrage. Godiver disagreed with the taxes and asked a
husband to reduce them. Thinking she would never do it,
he agreed to lower the taxes on the condition that
she rode a horse naked through the streets of Coventry
in England. She decided to take up the challenge, and
as a mark of respect, all the townsfolk agreed to
stay indoors, close their shutters, and not watch the highly
(06:16):
publicized spectacle. Everyone kept their word in the town except
for the tailor Tom. Tom was unable to resist a
glimpse of Godiver and peep through his shutters and a
phrase was spawned. And terrific storytelling and great production on
that by Greg Hangler. Funny, Funny stuff and good stuff.
(06:37):
Andrew Thompson is the voice you are listening to his
book Heir of the Dog to Paint the Town. Read
the curious origins of everyday sings and fun phrases, and
my Goodness another chicken story, and we've watched that with
our own little chickens and the hierarchy. They have this
one poor chicken that just takes it from everybody, and
we don't know what to do about it because there's
(06:59):
nothing you can. There is a thing called the pecking order.
These are terrific stories about our English language. And where
are these phrases come from? Greg Hangler is always great
job on the production. Andrew Thompson, the stories of everyday
sayings are English language celebrated. Here are now American story folks.
(07:29):
If you love the stories we tell about this great country,
and especially the stories of America's rich past, know that
all of our stories about American history, from war to innovation,
culture and faith, are brought to us by the great
folks at Hillsdale College, a place where students study all
the things that are beautiful in life and all the
things that are good in life. And if you can't
cut to Hillsdale, Hillsdale will come to you with their
(07:52):
free and terrific online courses. Go to Hillsdale dot du
to learn more. And we continue with our American stories.
(08:13):
It all went down in the city of Benton Harbor,
Michigan in two thousand and six. Andrew Collins was an
narcotics officer. Jamal McGee was a new father of a
baby boy. This is a story about forgiveness, brokenness, and
true reconciliation from two guys who should have been hardened
bitter enemies. Without any further ado, let's hear how Andrew
(08:35):
and Jamal's unlikely stories intersect, starting with Jamal. February eighth,
two thousand and six was the day that forever changed
my life. February eighth, two thousand and six really just
another day for me. All I wanted to do was
go to the store and get some milk from my son.
(08:57):
All I wanted on that day was an other conviction.
So I caught a ride for some guys that I
knew that probably would be up to no good. I
had caught a guy with some crack. He knew a
guy with some more crack, so he made a phone call.
So we get to the store and this guy asked
me to use the phone. At the time, I didn't
think anything of it, so I gave him my phone.
(09:20):
So I get to the store and I see the
vehicle just like I was told. One guy in the
vehicle and another guy comes out of the store. I'm
not sure if he has something to do with it,
but I'm gonna make sure he has something to do
with it. So I'm coming out to the the store and
this guy's approaching me talking about he's a cop. Where's
the dope. I'm like, what dope? I don't have any dope.
I ain't got no dope. It ain't my dope. How
(09:40):
many times have I heard this before? That's what everybody says.
So I had him lock him up. How could I
be going to jail for some drugs that isn't mind?
How is this possible trial? He's gonna take it to
trial the way that I wrote that report, he's gonna
take it to trial. I would have wasted my time. Well,
(10:01):
I wasn't about to plead guilty to something that I
know I didn't do. So I told my story and
I got my conviction, and Jamal McGee was sentenced to
ten years in federal prison. So, Jamal, could you share
with us what it was like sitting in jail, sitting
in prison knowing you had ten years over your head.
(10:23):
It was rough, it was painful. I became a different person.
I became very bitter, very angry, I mean frustrated. I
can't figure out why am I sitting here? Why am
I in prison? I didn't do nothing, Why am I here?
(10:43):
So with that, I became unapproachable. You couldn't talk to me.
I wouldn't talk to you. It didn't matter who you was.
I just didn't have no words for nobody. And then
if you try to talk to me, that's when the
problem came in. I want to fight at that point.
So in prison, I'm sitting in prison, I'm just going
(11:06):
through the motions. I'm acting out on everything I wanted
to do to Andrew, I'm doing it to other people.
So hurt people, hurt people. Okay, So I sit there
and not knowing, not caring as I was hurting other people.
(11:29):
Because I was hurt. I felt like I had lost everything.
There was nothing else that mattered at this point, So
my attitude was I don't care. So sitting in prison
really rough. I was becoming the person you didn't want
(11:50):
to even come across. Then I had to awakening like
I needed something different. I needed to do some different
my life because everything I've done in my life, I
find myself in these very situations. So this one day,
(12:10):
three years into my sentence, it's a Bible sitting there
on my desk, on my table, has been there the
whole time, never looked at it. Gave my life over
the Christ at age eighteen, then again at twenty one
because at eighteen I did it for my mom because
I wanted off my back. So at age twenty one,
(12:31):
I really got the grass of I need a relationship
with Jesus myself. So I did that. And but this
time when I went to jail, I was like, you
know what, I'm not gonna lean on God for this
because I did that all my other times. And this
is clear, it's in black and white. I should be
able to just present this or say this and I
(12:52):
can get out of here. That wasn't the case. I
had no voice. Nothing I said matter at all. Period.
So I'm still sitting here, frustrated man to the Bible,
sitting here on my table. I grab a Bible today.
I just said, you know, I'm reading the Bible today.
Grad a Bible started, first five version of Genesis, and
(13:15):
then my mind just went blanking. I was just hit
with this message of let it go, let it go,
let it go, and if y'all familiar, at this time,
Frozen was not out yet, so I haven't. I had
no idea what this song was kind well, what this thought,
this words, where it was coming from. And I wrestled
(13:36):
with that, like no, this was done to me, Like
this is my hurt, Like I need to avenge that,
I need to take care of that. I want to
put my hands on him. I want to be the
one to say I took care of that. So that
was my goal. So whenever I got home was to
find him and hurt him. That was my goal. It
(13:59):
didn't matter when I was gonna do it. So after
battling with these thoughts, I'm getting headaches trying to block
it out, okay, because I don't want to hear them.
I'm trying to put something else in my head to
get this thought out of my head. So later on,
I go out and walk on the yard and I'm
(14:20):
walking around the circle and I just begin to reflect
on my life, you know what I'm saying, as a whole,
as as far as I can remember, And I quickly
realized that every situation I had a choice before it
even happened, I had a choice, but I chose the
(14:40):
more convenient, easy way every time, which led me to
Foster care. Jove Now the links, the boys homes, the prisons,
the jails. My decisions led me there. So I'm like,
(15:00):
you know what, God, it's your way. I'm tired of
being in my way. I'm tired of this. My way
hasn't worked all these years, so I need something different.
So I kept walking on the track and I'm just like,
you know what, I gotta change. I gotta change my life.
I gotta sign. I want to see him, I want
to be able to raise him. I want to be
(15:21):
a part of his life. So I got to do
something different with mine. So I get back to my
sale and I prayed before I wanted to sleep, and
I was like, you know what, guy, I want to
wake up tomorrow as if I'm at home. So I
want to live every day after this as if I'm
at home. So I got up that morning. My first
(15:41):
thing to do was speak to somebody, which was very
hard for me to do. And I came out and
I was just like, all right, hey, first person I saw, Hey,
how are you doing? They're looking at me like this, dude,
It's crazy. It was this like but I didn't care
at that point what nobody thought, because I said I
(16:02):
was gonna go through with this. I'm gonna I'm gonna
adapt this change into my life. I'm gonna do something different,
and boom. I started building more relationships, started talking to people,
you know, people was getting to know me, and then
they was asking me a question like, man, what was
so messed up with you all that many months and
years ago. I wouldn't talk about that part because everybody
(16:26):
that goes to prison says there and it's saying yes.
So I didn't want to be a part of that.
So I was like, Nope, just brushed that part off.
So this one of these day, I go to work
this one morning and the people were calling me as
soon as I got to work, and I'm like, my
(16:49):
attitude was still kind of jacked up, so I'm like,
if you're wanting you gotta come get me. So I
got off work and when I got to the unit
guy was at the door. I was like, hey, you
know what they've been calling you all. They should probably
go see what they want. The first thing I thought
of was like, man, I'm probably gonna go to the
whole now for some stuff out indeed previously, and I
(17:09):
was like, well, kind of facing miners. It is what
it is. And you're listening to Tramel McGhee tell his story.
Thrown in prison for a crime he didn't commit, set
up by an officer Andrew Collins. He tries doing it
one way, the hard way, filled with anger and bitterness,
and then one day he said, I had an awakening.
I needed to do something different in my life. Their
(17:32):
story continues, a crooked cop, an innocent man in an
unlikely journey of forgiveness and friendship. Here on our American stories,
(18:08):
and we continue with our American stories, and we've been
listening to Jamal McGee having served three years of his
ten years sentence, a conviction that was based on a
setup by a crooked cop, Andrew Collins. Even though Jamal
was innocent, he came to the inclusion that it was
his bad choices in his life that had put him
(18:29):
in this terrible situation. So he decided, well to do
something different with his life. He decided to follow God.
Here again is Jamal and Andrew. So I go to
the council office and he was like, hey, where would
you go if he was released today? Tomorrow? Or six
months from now, and I'm like, hmm, probably my gum house.
(18:53):
I need address. Gave him the address and he was like, well,
you got fifteen minutes to leave. I was like, I
can leave out of the office right now. I didn't
actually come in here, and he was like no. The
fax machine beat and he handed me the paper and
it was a letter from the judge saying my conviction
(19:16):
was overturned and I had to leave the premises immediately,
me letting that anger, that frustration go. God open the
door for me to go. So there were some things
going on with my life at that time. I had
(19:36):
given my life to Christ at age seven in the
back of a church. My uncle, who's only three years
older than me, led me to the Lord. I just
didn't understand what the heck it meant, Thank you Jesus.
So I went about my business as a high schooler,
as a teenager, as a police officer. The more I
was a police officer, the more wrong things I did,
The more wrong things I did, the less I felt
bad about them. It's a funny thing about integrity like that,
(19:57):
the more you do the wrong things, the less you
feel like it's wrong. So February of two thousand and eight,
I get caught with crack, heroin and marijuana in my office,
and in one day, my life crumbled. All the money
that I was making legally and illegally gone, Friends that
I had built, friends who I thought would be there
(20:19):
for a lifetime. Nobody knows a police officer like a
police officer. Y'all. My boys gone because they were worried
about their careers. Rightly so my family. Having to see
my wife's face when I was trying to explain to
her that I just lost my job. The day before,
I was top cop in the county. I was. I
was a big deal, especially in my own mind, and
(20:39):
in a day it was gone. So I went on
a three day journey. Day one got caught. Day two
thought about suicide. There's no way I can get out
of this. Day three went and saw a pastor because
on day two my wife came home from work and
saw that I was depressed and said, you need to
go talk to that pastor that you've been going to,
because see that whole being a Christian thing as a youth.
God wouldn't leave me alone. So I called that pastor up,
(21:01):
and I said, I got to talk to you, said, yeah,
you do. I've seen the news. So I sit down
with him and I tell him I confessed everything. It
felt so good to get it out of me, to
finally admit what I had done wrong. And he listened patiently,
and he said, oh boy, you're in trouble. I remember
thinking like you, sir, are a terrible counselor. I know
(21:26):
I'm in trouble. What do I do now? And he said,
where are you at with Jesus? I'm thinking what I
just told you. Where I'm at with Jesus. I am
a terrible person. Man, I don't deserve him, he said,
none of us do. That's the beauty of grace. God's
riches at christ expense. He paid it. You don't have to.
He said, Andrew, you accepted Jesus as your savior. You've
(21:48):
accepted the whole, the whole time, that he saved you
from your sins, but you've never let him be your lord.
Do you want that lordship? I said, I do, Man,
I do. This is my lordship. Twenty five years old,
in your office, cry and thinking him suicide. He said,
let's pray. So we melt down there in his office
and He prayed because I felt like if I talked
to God he'd strike me dead right there. I still
(22:08):
couldn't wrap my mind around grace. And he prayed for
me that God would become that Jesus would become my lord.
We said a man. I was bawling, and I said,
what do I do next? Man, I'm a man. There's
like a list. There's got to be a list of
things I can do, because that's how men operate. List.
Give me a listen, I'll check off the boxes. He said,
read your Bible. That's it. Get to know your Lord.
(22:29):
I was like, oh, I don't know if you ever
read that thing, Pastor, but it's kind it's kind of boring.
He's like, no, man, God did something in you today.
He gave me a Bible that was a little easier
to read for me from what I grew up in.
And I started reading. I was blown away at all
the little bombs that were going off in my soul
about Jesus dealing with people that were just as jacked
up or even worse than me. And the longer I
(22:49):
was away from police work, the less I felt bad
I got caught, and the more I felt bad for
what I had done. It's a difference, y'all. So I
went to the FBI and I said, look, I want
to write my wrongs. There's some things that need to
be reconciled. So I sat down. They put a stack
of reports in front of me, and they said, we
(23:10):
need you to look through all these reports and we
need to tell We need you to tell us which
ones are bad. Highlight the ones that are bad. And
I said, honestly, out of these two hundred cases would
be easier to highlight the ones that are good. My
corruption ran deep, and I started working it out, one
case at a time, one case at a time, one
case at a time, and one of those cases was
Jamal McGee. I opened it up and I said, that's
(23:32):
a bad case. It's a bad case. So because I
gave my life to the Lord and because I did
the right things, all my problems went away, and I've
never had another problem since then. No, that's not what happened.
I still had to go to prison. Yea. Also, so
January oh nine, I plead guilty. I go to jail.
February oh nine, Jamal gets out. It's like tag team.
I mean, you're out. But the story don't stop there
(23:58):
twenty ten, all guess I get out. I'm passionate about
Ben Harbor. I feel like guy's calling me back to
the community. So I reached out to a pastor of
a local church up there, and he says, we're having
this thing in August of eleven called hoops, hip hop
and hot dogs, age three. I'll reach event. We want
you to be a part of it. So I said,
I want to be part of that. So I'm standing
(24:19):
in Broadway Park like, okay, where are the people that
I need to be reconciled with? Bring him Lord? And
then all of a sudden, I see this man coming
at me like he wasn't he was coming at me.
He wasn't running, but he was coming at me. And
he reaches out his hand and it looked like you
want to shake my hand. I'm thinking, oh, cool, reconciliation.
He said, you remember my name, and then he squeezed
(24:40):
extremely tightly. I said, Jamal McGee, and he squeezed even harder.
I've got I've got the answer right, And I don't
know y'all can He's got big hands. He ain't letting
go if you don't want to let go. And he
looks down in the sun. He said, I want you
to tell my son why he missed out on all
them years of his daddy's life. I wished he'd hit me,
(25:02):
hit a hurt worse, hurt, a hurt less. I said, look, man,
there's nothing I can do to make up for what
I did, but I'm sorry. I offer you my apology.
He didn't say anything, because see the little muscle in
his jaw clenching. And I said, you know what, I'm
I got my daughter here at the park two. I know, hey,
you know what, maybe this will help. I know what
(25:22):
it's like to be away from my daughter too, because
I spent eighteen months in prison. And he said, I
don't give a what you had to go through. And
I was like, that was the wrong thing to say.
I was glad he could speak, but then I was like, oh, shoot,
because what I did is I took everything away that
I had just said. I just made all these apologies
and then I just basically took it right away. That's
(25:44):
basically saying, yes, there's a problem, but everybody goes through problem,
so it doesn't really matter that much. I'm about to
get on a tangent. Jamal what was that day like
for you in the park. I call it the test
because that day was it was a test. I got out,
(26:08):
I got to meet my son for the first time,
and he wanted to go to this park. It was
He's seen a lot of people standing out there. I'm
an introverted person, so that was not gonna happen for me.
So I'm like, uh, and he was like, yeah, I'm
want to go over there. So I didn't want to
disappoint him. So I'm like, all right, come on, let's go.
(26:29):
And I said to myself, I'm gonna just stay on
the sidewalk and let him run through the park. And
walking down the sidewalk, I'm like, I thought I'd seen
Andrew and up under the pavilion. I'm like, no, that
can't be him, not in Broadway Park, not at this park.
This park usually don't end well when there's a lot
of people out here, and I know they just can't
(26:49):
be him right there. And he turned around and I'm like, yeah,
that's him. In my mind, the first thing that popped
up was get him. And You've been listening to Andrew
Collins and Jamal McGhee tell the story of how their
lives intersected, and my goodness, the test is what Jamel
(27:12):
called it. When we come back, their story continues, a
crooked cop, an innocent man in an unlikely journey of
forgiveness and friendship. Here on our American stories, and we
(27:37):
returned to our American stories. Jamal McGee spent three years
in federal prison, and on a day went by that
he didn't think about his son we had never seen,
and the crooked cop who had kept Jamel from seeing
him for most of those three years. Jamal writes in
his book Convicted, I promised myself that if I ever
saw this cop again, I was going to kill him.
(28:00):
I intended to keep that promise. Here's Jamal and Andrew
picking up with the moment the two saw each other
for the first time in a park back home. Here's
Jamal in my mind. The first thing that popped up
was get him, get him. Now he's here, He's in
(28:20):
front of you. All that I was feeling in the
prison was back on my shoulders, everything, and now he's
in my face and I'm like, oh, yeah, it's time,
let's get him. So I go over there and be
lying stuck out my hands, I said, hey, you remember me?
And he said yeah. When he said that, I squeezed him,
and in my mind was two things. It was myself
(28:46):
again telling me to hit him. Hit him. What are
you waiting on? You're taking too long? Hit him. Then
God was like hey, guy was like, hey, I got this,
get out of my way. I got this, step out
(29:08):
of my way. That me avenge this for you. I
got this. I can do far more than you ever can.
So I'm like, hmm, hit them, hit them. And my
son was right there, and I was just like, just
(29:30):
explain to my son why I missed that on these
years of his life, because I'm having a hard time
doing it. And I was like, I didn't do something
first that the world everybody thought and knew that I
probably was gonna do. Anyway, I didn't do it, and
(29:53):
I let him go and I walked away, and each
step I walked away, I felt lighter. I felt better
me too. And the close I got to the curve,
I begin to think, Man, that's over. What I'm gonna
lead that to God where it was supposed to be.
(30:16):
I can't do nothing about it anyway, forget it. I'll
never see him again. Anyway. There you go, I still
see him. But after that, I saw him every day. Um.
I could leave the store or be walking down the
street or riding down the street on my bike, and
I would see him everywhere I went. And I'm like, man, God,
(30:40):
was I supposed to do something to him? Like, I
don't know what was Why am I seeing him so much?
And I found that out later four years Yeah, yeah,
So I picked back up and I'm gonna, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna basically, we're gonna give you five years, four
years whatever. It was four years of history in nine
(31:00):
minutes and forty six seconds. Ready, strap in your seatbelts.
So I start working for this place called the Mosaic
CCDA Christian Community Development Association Association. It has three social enterprises,
a cafe, a resale store in a full scale lawngcare company.
Cafe Mosaic if you all have ever been there downtown
Benton Harbor, a great place they will get a coffee.
So I'm working there as the cafe manager in Benton Harbor,
(31:23):
having reconciliation stories with people, feeling like God has called
me that this is great, this is awesome. There's another
part of the program called Jobs for Life, where people
from the community. Maybe they've got felonies on their record,
maybe they've never had a job before, and they need
a little bit of hand up. They don't need a
hand out, they need a hand up because they want
to do something with their life. They graduate Jobs for
Life and then they either get absorbed into one of
(31:44):
our social enterprises or they went out and got jobs
with a community people that we had made contact with.
Everybody in Jobs for Life, every student ended up with
a mentor anybody putting two and two together. Yet one
day Miss Prince Sella comes down because she runs Joshed
for Life. She says, Hey, there's this guy in my
class called Zuki. Do you know Zuki. I want to
(32:05):
introduce you guys to my friend's Zuki. I said, no,
I know the street nam, I've heard it, but I
don't think I know him personally. I don't think we
ever met. Would you be as mentor? God has later
on my heart that you should be as mentor. God's funny, right,
So I said, you know my story, Miss p you
(32:26):
know what I've done in the city. I don't know
if I've affected his family. Why don't you go ask
him what he thinks? About it. So Jamel in two
minutes or less, what did that conversation sound like? Oh? Yeah.
It was like she came over and I was sitting
in class. Everybody had a mentor, and she was like, yeah,
we finally got your mentor. She was like, yeah, God
(32:46):
is later in her for you two guys, if you
mentor mente. And I don't know if you guys had
any history together, but yeah, I think you guys should
be mentor. I'm like, okay, get on with it. Who
is it? And she's like and you comins? And I'm like, no,
no way, there's no way I'm doing that. And she
(33:07):
was like, okay, fine, we'll get you somebody else. And
I'm like, wait a minute, miss p that was my decision.
Let me pray on that real fast, because I don't
want no more of my decisions to affect my life.
This is my decision, so I wanted to be God's decision.
So I prayed and I opened my eyes and there's
a book on my desk and it was two figures
(33:29):
on a mountain that was written in words, and it
was one pulling the other one up. I was like,
all right, guy, you got it. So it's evident. This
is what you want, this is the path you want
me to take. I'm gonna take it. So he comes
walking through the cafe doors. I'm like an hour and
(33:50):
a half later, Hey, Jamal, come on, have a seat.
So we sit down and say, hey, I used to
be a police officer in City Ben Harbor. I did
some awful things. If I've ever harmed you or your family,
can you let me know. I'd like to apologize for it.
And he's smiling at me the whole time, like, what
does this do? Smile over? This ain't funny. I'm trying
to be serious, and I said so. Once I got
done with my little spiel, I said, look, man, what's
so funny? And he just shook and said he said, man,
we already had this talk. I said we did. He
(34:11):
said yeah, Broadway Park and I was instantly flashed back
to that moment in the park and I was like,
oh shoot. Because I'm a Christian though, and I just
went to apologize and dude, I am so sorry. I
felt like God gave me a second chance. I'm so sorry.
He said, I know, and he was like offended. I know.
(34:31):
I said, dude, there's got to be something I can do.
He's like, nah, it's over. It's over. You were sorry then,
and I trusted that, and I know you are now
you don't have to say it anymore. It's forgiven. It's done.
I was like, dude, can we can we do this
mentor thing? He said, I think God wants us to.
I think God set this up. I said, man, this
is this is blowing my mind. Dude, like four minutes ago,
(34:53):
I'm making chocolate chip cookies and now this like this
is this? Can we pray? He's like, pray? So we
we bowed our heads right there and we prayed the
guy would bless this friendship that God would make basically
beauty for ashes that we give doing our ashes. He
gives us back a crown of beauty. And we prayed
that and he got up. We said hey man. He
(35:13):
got up and walked out because he had an appointment
to get to. And I went in the back and
cried like a child because I felt forgiven. And then
I was We were meeting every week and I was like, yo, bro,
we we need an employee in the cafe, and you
need a job. Are you do you need a job.
He's like, yeah, I need a job. You know I
need a job. I said, well, how about this, because
what if what if I hire you? Or what if
(35:34):
we hire you and you be and what are you
a good worker? Because if I've got to write you up,
things are already tense enough, you know, like h and
he did that. He's just smiling, dude, smile. It's like
it breaks down all board. He's like, nah, man, nah,
I got you, I got you. And he started working.
He was the best worker I had ever seen. I
worked so hard. I've never seen somebody work so hard
(35:55):
in that cafe. So every day I say thank you, Jamale,
thank you so much for putting your all into this,
and this is amazing. Thank you. Do you want to
hit me? He'd be like what. I'd be like, I
just want to check. I just want to make sure
because I don't want to be in the cash for
this to someday and then just getting big old. I
want to make sure I know it's coming. If it's coming.
He's like, no, bro, no, we're good. And now it's
(36:17):
like every three or four months, I'll ask him while
we're on a plane or something, Hey we're still good. Yeah,
look good, all right, and listen y'all. We're finding out
some stuff about reconciliation as we walked this thing out,
because I don't know if y'all notice it or not,
but I'm white. I mean I'm a little darker skin
than most, but I am white and he's black. We
get this. We get that this speaks to our nation
(36:38):
right now, and we don't think we have all the answers,
but we think we have a piece of it. And
the piece we think that we're holding on too right
now is reconciliation. We met a woman who who said
who came down front and said, look, guys, I just
need you to help me pray because I just need
to forgive my mom. She hurt me so bad eighteen
years ago. And I'm understanding that if I'm starting to
treat my child the way she was treating me, because
(37:00):
I'm holding on to this. And we were like, yeah, yeah,
where she yet, bring her down? Let's get her down
here wall pretty together. She's been dead for eighteen years.
She was holding on harbor in that unforgiveness for eighteen
years and the person couldn't do anything about it. So
apology forgiveness, But that's only two pieces for reconciliation. You've
(37:21):
got to come together. The more I get to know
this man, the more I love him as an individual,
the more I love him as a person, not as
a black man, but as a man. And a terrific
job on the production and storytelling by Greg Hangler, and
a special thanks to Andrew Collins and Jamal McGee for
sharing the remarkable journey. And also a special thanks to
(37:42):
Torres Montgomery for sharing the audio of this remarkable story.
And what a story indeed about big things like forgiveness
and reconciliation and what us stud Jamal is what a
man the story of so much he or about God,
about faith, about forgiveness, and ultimately about racial reconciliation and
(38:02):
real human reconciliation. The story of a crooked cop, an
innocent man, and an unlikely journey of forgiveness and friendship.
Here on our American Stories
This is Lee Habib and this is our American Stories,
and we tell stories about everything here on this show,
including your stories. Send them to our American Stories dot com.
There's some of our favorites. Up next, we continue with
our recurring series about the curious origins of every day
sayings the stories behind them. Here to join us again
(00:31):
is Andrew Thompson as he continues to share another slice
from his Ultimate Guide to Understanding these mini mysteries, these
mini stories of our precious English language. Out of the
blue means a complete or unexpected surprise, and it's a
variation of the expression a bolt from the blue. The
ancient Romans called a flash of lightning on a clear
(00:53):
day a thunderbolt from the blue. The blue in the
phrase is related to the blue of the sky. Lightning
on a sunny day was obviously very rare, and the
Romans began to use the saying to refer to any
sudden surprise. The phrase was first used in writing by
Thomas Carlyle in a book he wrote in eighteen thirty seven.
The expression over the top, sometimes shortened to ott, means
(01:17):
to an excessive degree or beyond acceptable limits or outrages,
and it has its origins in trench warfare in World
War One. To go over the top was to charge
on foot across open ground from the safety of the trenches.
The order was given over the top lads and the
best of luck, but few had much luck, as they
often ran head on into enemy machine gun fire. On
(01:41):
the first day of the Battle of the Psalm in
July nineteen sixteen, over fifty eight thousand casualties were sustained
by the British when they all went over the top
to paint the town. Read means to go out and
celebrate or get very drunk, and he owes its origins
to a legendary night of revelry. In eighteen thirty seven
(02:01):
there was a man called the Marquis of Waterford, known
as the Mad Marquess because of his erratic behavior, and
he went out one night in the English town of
Melton Mowbray. The group went berserk on vandalism spree, and
they broke windows, pulled off door knockers, and smashed flower pots.
Unsatisfied with that, though, they acquired some red paint and
painted at Swan statue, a number of house stores and
(02:23):
even a toll gate completely read the marquess later paid
conversation for the damage caused, but he had painted the
town red and would never live it down. A parting
shot as a hostile gesture or remark made while departing
which the person hearing has no chance to respond to.
And it's a phrase I've always found interesting. It dates
(02:44):
to a military tactic from the seventeenth century the Parthians
at the time when ancient race living in northeast Persia
and their army include mounted archers. These archers would ride
away from the enemy at full gallop given the impression
of a retreat, but as the enemy approached, the archers,
who were superber Questrians, would turn and fire arrows backwards
(03:05):
with great accuracy. Originally no one as a path in shot,
the phrase was corrupt a departing shot by the early
twentieth century. To pass the buck means to shift blame
or responsibility as someone else, and it originates from the
game of poker. Poker became popular in America during the
eighteenth century, and players were always suspicious of any form
of buyers or cheating. To stop this, the card dealer
(03:28):
was frequently rotated during a game, and the person who
was next in line to deal was given a marker,
which was often a knife. The handles of most knives
at the time were made of buck's horn, so the
marker became known as a buck. When the dealer's term
was complete, he would pass the buck. President Harry S.
Truman famously displayed a sign on his desk that read,
(03:49):
the buck stops here, and that gave rise to the
expression and made it more commonplace. To pass with flying
colors means to have success at a difficult task, and
it's a sailing term that dates back to the early
seventeen hundreds. A ship's flag or banner was known as
its colors, and when a ship or fleet was successful
in battle and was returning to its homeland, it would
(04:10):
sail in with its flag flying high on the mast.
This indicated that the ship had been victorious. It had
retained its flag rather than lost it to the enemy.
To pass with flying colors was a sure sign of victory.
To pay through the nose means to pay in excessive
amount for something, and it's got to interesting and strange origins.
(04:30):
It dates all the way back to the ninth century
when the Vikings invaded Ireland. The Danish had extraordinary harsh
tax laws which they imposed on any land they invaded.
With the invasion of Ireland, they applied a particularly harsh tax,
known as the nose tax. The punishment for evading the
nose tax was quite perverse. Anyone refusing to pay the
(04:51):
tax had their nose slid from tip to eyebrow. The
people had a choice either pay the tax or pay
through the nose. Pecking order is a hierarchy or authority
in a group, and it's a phrase that began with
the farming of chickens. Domestic poultry maintain a strict hierarchy
where the lead hen is able to peck any other
(05:12):
for whatever reason without fear of retribution. The other hens
are ordered beneath the lead hen, and each of them
know which hens are lower than them and thus able
to be packed. This cascade's down to the lowest hen,
who gets pecked by all the other hens. It was
German biologists who were observing this behavior who coined the
phrase pecking order in the nineteen twenties, and it went
(05:34):
on to take its wider meeting by the nineteen fifties.
A peeping tom is a man who secretly observes women
who were naked and its origins lie in the story
of Lady Godiver in the eleventh century. She was married
to an earl who owned large landholdings, and he imposed
heavy taxes on the less wealthy, which was old in
(05:54):
public outrage. Godiver disagreed with the taxes and asked a
husband to reduce them. Thinking she would never do it,
he agreed to lower the taxes on the condition that
she rode a horse naked through the streets of Coventry
in England. She decided to take up the challenge, and
as a mark of respect, all the townsfolk agreed to
stay indoors, close their shutters, and not watch the highly
(06:16):
publicized spectacle. Everyone kept their word in the town except
for the tailor Tom. Tom was unable to resist a
glimpse of Godiver and peep through his shutters and a
phrase was spawned. And terrific storytelling and great production on
that by Greg Hangler. Funny, Funny stuff and good stuff.
(06:37):
Andrew Thompson is the voice you are listening to his
book Heir of the Dog to Paint the Town. Read
the curious origins of everyday sings and fun phrases, and
my Goodness another chicken story, and we've watched that with
our own little chickens and the hierarchy. They have this
one poor chicken that just takes it from everybody, and
we don't know what to do about it because there's
(06:59):
nothing you can. There is a thing called the pecking order.
These are terrific stories about our English language. And where
are these phrases come from? Greg Hangler is always great
job on the production. Andrew Thompson, the stories of everyday
sayings are English language celebrated. Here are now American story folks.
(07:29):
If you love the stories we tell about this great country,
and especially the stories of America's rich past, know that
all of our stories about American history, from war to innovation,
culture and faith, are brought to us by the great
folks at Hillsdale College, a place where students study all
the things that are beautiful in life and all the
things that are good in life. And if you can't
cut to Hillsdale, Hillsdale will come to you with their
(07:52):
free and terrific online courses. Go to Hillsdale dot du
to learn more. And we continue with our American stories.
(08:13):
It all went down in the city of Benton Harbor,
Michigan in two thousand and six. Andrew Collins was an
narcotics officer. Jamal McGee was a new father of a
baby boy. This is a story about forgiveness, brokenness, and
true reconciliation from two guys who should have been hardened
bitter enemies. Without any further ado, let's hear how Andrew
(08:35):
and Jamal's unlikely stories intersect, starting with Jamal. February eighth,
two thousand and six was the day that forever changed
my life. February eighth, two thousand and six really just
another day for me. All I wanted to do was
go to the store and get some milk from my son.
(08:57):
All I wanted on that day was an other conviction.
So I caught a ride for some guys that I
knew that probably would be up to no good. I
had caught a guy with some crack. He knew a
guy with some more crack, so he made a phone call.
So we get to the store and this guy asked
me to use the phone. At the time, I didn't
think anything of it, so I gave him my phone.
(09:20):
So I get to the store and I see the
vehicle just like I was told. One guy in the
vehicle and another guy comes out of the store. I'm
not sure if he has something to do with it,
but I'm gonna make sure he has something to do
with it. So I'm coming out to the the store and
this guy's approaching me talking about he's a cop. Where's
the dope. I'm like, what dope? I don't have any dope.
I ain't got no dope. It ain't my dope. How
(09:40):
many times have I heard this before? That's what everybody says.
So I had him lock him up. How could I
be going to jail for some drugs that isn't mind?
How is this possible trial? He's gonna take it to
trial the way that I wrote that report, he's gonna
take it to trial. I would have wasted my time. Well,
(10:01):
I wasn't about to plead guilty to something that I
know I didn't do. So I told my story and
I got my conviction, and Jamal McGee was sentenced to
ten years in federal prison. So, Jamal, could you share
with us what it was like sitting in jail, sitting
in prison knowing you had ten years over your head.
(10:23):
It was rough, it was painful. I became a different person.
I became very bitter, very angry, I mean frustrated. I
can't figure out why am I sitting here? Why am
I in prison? I didn't do nothing, Why am I here?
(10:43):
So with that, I became unapproachable. You couldn't talk to me.
I wouldn't talk to you. It didn't matter who you was.
I just didn't have no words for nobody. And then
if you try to talk to me, that's when the
problem came in. I want to fight at that point.
So in prison, I'm sitting in prison, I'm just going
(11:06):
through the motions. I'm acting out on everything I wanted
to do to Andrew, I'm doing it to other people.
So hurt people, hurt people. Okay, So I sit there
and not knowing, not caring as I was hurting other people.
(11:29):
Because I was hurt. I felt like I had lost everything.
There was nothing else that mattered at this point, So
my attitude was I don't care. So sitting in prison
really rough. I was becoming the person you didn't want
(11:50):
to even come across. Then I had to awakening like
I needed something different. I needed to do some different
my life because everything I've done in my life, I
find myself in these very situations. So this one day,
(12:10):
three years into my sentence, it's a Bible sitting there
on my desk, on my table, has been there the
whole time, never looked at it. Gave my life over
the Christ at age eighteen, then again at twenty one
because at eighteen I did it for my mom because
I wanted off my back. So at age twenty one,
(12:31):
I really got the grass of I need a relationship
with Jesus myself. So I did that. And but this
time when I went to jail, I was like, you
know what, I'm not gonna lean on God for this
because I did that all my other times. And this
is clear, it's in black and white. I should be
able to just present this or say this and I
(12:52):
can get out of here. That wasn't the case. I
had no voice. Nothing I said matter at all. Period.
So I'm still sitting here, frustrated man to the Bible,
sitting here on my table. I grab a Bible today.
I just said, you know, I'm reading the Bible today.
Grad a Bible started, first five version of Genesis, and
(13:15):
then my mind just went blanking. I was just hit
with this message of let it go, let it go,
let it go, and if y'all familiar, at this time,
Frozen was not out yet, so I haven't. I had
no idea what this song was kind well, what this thought,
this words, where it was coming from. And I wrestled
(13:36):
with that, like no, this was done to me, Like
this is my hurt, Like I need to avenge that,
I need to take care of that. I want to
put my hands on him. I want to be the
one to say I took care of that. So that
was my goal. So whenever I got home was to
find him and hurt him. That was my goal. It
(13:59):
didn't matter when I was gonna do it. So after
battling with these thoughts, I'm getting headaches trying to block
it out, okay, because I don't want to hear them.
I'm trying to put something else in my head to
get this thought out of my head. So later on,
I go out and walk on the yard and I'm
(14:20):
walking around the circle and I just begin to reflect
on my life, you know what I'm saying, as a whole,
as as far as I can remember, And I quickly
realized that every situation I had a choice before it
even happened, I had a choice, but I chose the
(14:40):
more convenient, easy way every time, which led me to
Foster care. Jove Now the links, the boys homes, the prisons,
the jails. My decisions led me there. So I'm like,
(15:00):
you know what, God, it's your way. I'm tired of
being in my way. I'm tired of this. My way
hasn't worked all these years, so I need something different.
So I kept walking on the track and I'm just like,
you know what, I gotta change. I gotta change my life.
I gotta sign. I want to see him, I want
to be able to raise him. I want to be
(15:21):
a part of his life. So I got to do
something different with mine. So I get back to my
sale and I prayed before I wanted to sleep, and
I was like, you know what, guy, I want to
wake up tomorrow as if I'm at home. So I
want to live every day after this as if I'm
at home. So I got up that morning. My first
(15:41):
thing to do was speak to somebody, which was very
hard for me to do. And I came out and
I was just like, all right, hey, first person I saw, Hey,
how are you doing? They're looking at me like this, dude,
It's crazy. It was this like but I didn't care
at that point what nobody thought, because I said I
(16:02):
was gonna go through with this. I'm gonna I'm gonna
adapt this change into my life. I'm gonna do something different,
and boom. I started building more relationships, started talking to people,
you know, people was getting to know me, and then
they was asking me a question like, man, what was
so messed up with you all that many months and
years ago. I wouldn't talk about that part because everybody
(16:26):
that goes to prison says there and it's saying yes.
So I didn't want to be a part of that.
So I was like, Nope, just brushed that part off.
So this one of these day, I go to work
this one morning and the people were calling me as
soon as I got to work, and I'm like, my
(16:49):
attitude was still kind of jacked up, so I'm like,
if you're wanting you gotta come get me. So I
got off work and when I got to the unit
guy was at the door. I was like, hey, you
know what they've been calling you all. They should probably
go see what they want. The first thing I thought
of was like, man, I'm probably gonna go to the
whole now for some stuff out indeed previously, and I
(17:09):
was like, well, kind of facing miners. It is what
it is. And you're listening to Tramel McGhee tell his story.
Thrown in prison for a crime he didn't commit, set
up by an officer Andrew Collins. He tries doing it
one way, the hard way, filled with anger and bitterness,
and then one day he said, I had an awakening.
I needed to do something different in my life. Their
(17:32):
story continues, a crooked cop, an innocent man in an
unlikely journey of forgiveness and friendship. Here on our American stories,
(18:08):
and we continue with our American stories, and we've been
listening to Jamal McGee having served three years of his
ten years sentence, a conviction that was based on a
setup by a crooked cop, Andrew Collins. Even though Jamal
was innocent, he came to the inclusion that it was
his bad choices in his life that had put him
(18:29):
in this terrible situation. So he decided, well to do
something different with his life. He decided to follow God.
Here again is Jamal and Andrew. So I go to
the council office and he was like, hey, where would
you go if he was released today? Tomorrow? Or six
months from now, and I'm like, hmm, probably my gum house.
(18:53):
I need address. Gave him the address and he was like, well,
you got fifteen minutes to leave. I was like, I
can leave out of the office right now. I didn't
actually come in here, and he was like no. The
fax machine beat and he handed me the paper and
it was a letter from the judge saying my conviction
(19:16):
was overturned and I had to leave the premises immediately,
me letting that anger, that frustration go. God open the
door for me to go. So there were some things
going on with my life at that time. I had
(19:36):
given my life to Christ at age seven in the
back of a church. My uncle, who's only three years
older than me, led me to the Lord. I just
didn't understand what the heck it meant, Thank you Jesus.
So I went about my business as a high schooler,
as a teenager, as a police officer. The more I
was a police officer, the more wrong things I did,
The more wrong things I did, the less I felt
bad about them. It's a funny thing about integrity like that,
(19:57):
the more you do the wrong things, the less you
feel like it's wrong. So February of two thousand and eight,
I get caught with crack, heroin and marijuana in my office,
and in one day, my life crumbled. All the money
that I was making legally and illegally gone, Friends that
I had built, friends who I thought would be there
(20:19):
for a lifetime. Nobody knows a police officer like a
police officer. Y'all. My boys gone because they were worried
about their careers. Rightly so my family. Having to see
my wife's face when I was trying to explain to
her that I just lost my job. The day before,
I was top cop in the county. I was. I
was a big deal, especially in my own mind, and
(20:39):
in a day it was gone. So I went on
a three day journey. Day one got caught. Day two
thought about suicide. There's no way I can get out
of this. Day three went and saw a pastor because
on day two my wife came home from work and
saw that I was depressed and said, you need to
go talk to that pastor that you've been going to,
because see that whole being a Christian thing as a youth.
God wouldn't leave me alone. So I called that pastor up,
(21:01):
and I said, I got to talk to you, said, yeah,
you do. I've seen the news. So I sit down
with him and I tell him I confessed everything. It
felt so good to get it out of me, to
finally admit what I had done wrong. And he listened patiently,
and he said, oh boy, you're in trouble. I remember
thinking like you, sir, are a terrible counselor. I know
(21:26):
I'm in trouble. What do I do now? And he said,
where are you at with Jesus? I'm thinking what I
just told you. Where I'm at with Jesus. I am
a terrible person. Man, I don't deserve him, he said,
none of us do. That's the beauty of grace. God's
riches at christ expense. He paid it. You don't have to.
He said, Andrew, you accepted Jesus as your savior. You've
(21:48):
accepted the whole, the whole time, that he saved you
from your sins, but you've never let him be your lord.
Do you want that lordship? I said, I do, Man,
I do. This is my lordship. Twenty five years old,
in your office, cry and thinking him suicide. He said,
let's pray. So we melt down there in his office
and He prayed because I felt like if I talked
to God he'd strike me dead right there. I still
(22:08):
couldn't wrap my mind around grace. And he prayed for
me that God would become that Jesus would become my lord.
We said a man. I was bawling, and I said,
what do I do next? Man, I'm a man. There's
like a list. There's got to be a list of
things I can do, because that's how men operate. List.
Give me a listen, I'll check off the boxes. He said,
read your Bible. That's it. Get to know your Lord.
(22:29):
I was like, oh, I don't know if you ever
read that thing, Pastor, but it's kind it's kind of boring.
He's like, no, man, God did something in you today.
He gave me a Bible that was a little easier
to read for me from what I grew up in.
And I started reading. I was blown away at all
the little bombs that were going off in my soul
about Jesus dealing with people that were just as jacked
up or even worse than me. And the longer I
(22:49):
was away from police work, the less I felt bad
I got caught, and the more I felt bad for
what I had done. It's a difference, y'all. So I
went to the FBI and I said, look, I want
to write my wrongs. There's some things that need to
be reconciled. So I sat down. They put a stack
of reports in front of me, and they said, we
(23:10):
need you to look through all these reports and we
need to tell We need you to tell us which
ones are bad. Highlight the ones that are bad. And
I said, honestly, out of these two hundred cases would
be easier to highlight the ones that are good. My
corruption ran deep, and I started working it out, one
case at a time, one case at a time, one
case at a time, and one of those cases was
Jamal McGee. I opened it up and I said, that's
(23:32):
a bad case. It's a bad case. So because I
gave my life to the Lord and because I did
the right things, all my problems went away, and I've
never had another problem since then. No, that's not what happened.
I still had to go to prison. Yea. Also, so
January oh nine, I plead guilty. I go to jail.
February oh nine, Jamal gets out. It's like tag team.
I mean, you're out. But the story don't stop there
(23:58):
twenty ten, all guess I get out. I'm passionate about
Ben Harbor. I feel like guy's calling me back to
the community. So I reached out to a pastor of
a local church up there, and he says, we're having
this thing in August of eleven called hoops, hip hop
and hot dogs, age three. I'll reach event. We want
you to be a part of it. So I said,
I want to be part of that. So I'm standing
(24:19):
in Broadway Park like, okay, where are the people that
I need to be reconciled with? Bring him Lord? And
then all of a sudden, I see this man coming
at me like he wasn't he was coming at me.
He wasn't running, but he was coming at me. And
he reaches out his hand and it looked like you
want to shake my hand. I'm thinking, oh, cool, reconciliation.
He said, you remember my name, and then he squeezed
(24:40):
extremely tightly. I said, Jamal McGee, and he squeezed even harder.
I've got I've got the answer right, And I don't
know y'all can He's got big hands. He ain't letting
go if you don't want to let go. And he
looks down in the sun. He said, I want you
to tell my son why he missed out on all
them years of his daddy's life. I wished he'd hit me,
(25:02):
hit a hurt worse, hurt, a hurt less. I said, look, man,
there's nothing I can do to make up for what
I did, but I'm sorry. I offer you my apology.
He didn't say anything, because see the little muscle in
his jaw clenching. And I said, you know what, I'm
I got my daughter here at the park two. I know, hey,
you know what, maybe this will help. I know what
(25:22):
it's like to be away from my daughter too, because
I spent eighteen months in prison. And he said, I
don't give a what you had to go through. And
I was like, that was the wrong thing to say.
I was glad he could speak, but then I was like, oh, shoot,
because what I did is I took everything away that
I had just said. I just made all these apologies
and then I just basically took it right away. That's
(25:44):
basically saying, yes, there's a problem, but everybody goes through problem,
so it doesn't really matter that much. I'm about to
get on a tangent. Jamal what was that day like
for you in the park. I call it the test
because that day was it was a test. I got out,
(26:08):
I got to meet my son for the first time,
and he wanted to go to this park. It was
He's seen a lot of people standing out there. I'm
an introverted person, so that was not gonna happen for me.
So I'm like, uh, and he was like, yeah, I'm
want to go over there. So I didn't want to
disappoint him. So I'm like, all right, come on, let's go.
(26:29):
And I said to myself, I'm gonna just stay on
the sidewalk and let him run through the park. And
walking down the sidewalk, I'm like, I thought I'd seen
Andrew and up under the pavilion. I'm like, no, that
can't be him, not in Broadway Park, not at this park.
This park usually don't end well when there's a lot
of people out here, and I know they just can't
(26:49):
be him right there. And he turned around and I'm like, yeah,
that's him. In my mind, the first thing that popped
up was get him. And You've been listening to Andrew
Collins and Jamal McGhee tell the story of how their
lives intersected, and my goodness, the test is what Jamel
(27:12):
called it. When we come back, their story continues, a
crooked cop, an innocent man in an unlikely journey of
forgiveness and friendship. Here on our American stories, and we
(27:37):
returned to our American stories. Jamal McGee spent three years
in federal prison, and on a day went by that
he didn't think about his son we had never seen,
and the crooked cop who had kept Jamel from seeing
him for most of those three years. Jamal writes in
his book Convicted, I promised myself that if I ever
saw this cop again, I was going to kill him.
(28:00):
I intended to keep that promise. Here's Jamal and Andrew
picking up with the moment the two saw each other
for the first time in a park back home. Here's
Jamal in my mind. The first thing that popped up
was get him, get him. Now he's here, He's in
(28:20):
front of you. All that I was feeling in the
prison was back on my shoulders, everything, and now he's
in my face and I'm like, oh, yeah, it's time,
let's get him. So I go over there and be
lying stuck out my hands, I said, hey, you remember me?
And he said yeah. When he said that, I squeezed him,
and in my mind was two things. It was myself
(28:46):
again telling me to hit him. Hit him. What are
you waiting on? You're taking too long? Hit him. Then
God was like hey, guy was like, hey, I got this,
get out of my way. I got this, step out
(29:08):
of my way. That me avenge this for you. I
got this. I can do far more than you ever can.
So I'm like, hmm, hit them, hit them. And my
son was right there, and I was just like, just
(29:30):
explain to my son why I missed that on these
years of his life, because I'm having a hard time
doing it. And I was like, I didn't do something
first that the world everybody thought and knew that I
probably was gonna do. Anyway, I didn't do it, and
(29:53):
I let him go and I walked away, and each
step I walked away, I felt lighter. I felt better
me too. And the close I got to the curve,
I begin to think, Man, that's over. What I'm gonna
lead that to God where it was supposed to be.
(30:16):
I can't do nothing about it anyway, forget it. I'll
never see him again. Anyway. There you go, I still
see him. But after that, I saw him every day. Um.
I could leave the store or be walking down the
street or riding down the street on my bike, and
I would see him everywhere I went. And I'm like, man, God,
(30:40):
was I supposed to do something to him? Like, I
don't know what was Why am I seeing him so much?
And I found that out later four years Yeah, yeah,
So I picked back up and I'm gonna, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna basically, we're gonna give you five years, four
years whatever. It was four years of history in nine
(31:00):
minutes and forty six seconds. Ready, strap in your seatbelts.
So I start working for this place called the Mosaic
CCDA Christian Community Development Association Association. It has three social enterprises,
a cafe, a resale store in a full scale lawngcare company.
Cafe Mosaic if you all have ever been there downtown
Benton Harbor, a great place they will get a coffee.
So I'm working there as the cafe manager in Benton Harbor,
(31:23):
having reconciliation stories with people, feeling like God has called
me that this is great, this is awesome. There's another
part of the program called Jobs for Life, where people
from the community. Maybe they've got felonies on their record,
maybe they've never had a job before, and they need
a little bit of hand up. They don't need a
hand out, they need a hand up because they want
to do something with their life. They graduate Jobs for
Life and then they either get absorbed into one of
(31:44):
our social enterprises or they went out and got jobs
with a community people that we had made contact with.
Everybody in Jobs for Life, every student ended up with
a mentor anybody putting two and two together. Yet one
day Miss Prince Sella comes down because she runs Joshed
for Life. She says, Hey, there's this guy in my
class called Zuki. Do you know Zuki. I want to
(32:05):
introduce you guys to my friend's Zuki. I said, no,
I know the street nam, I've heard it, but I
don't think I know him personally. I don't think we
ever met. Would you be as mentor? God has later
on my heart that you should be as mentor. God's funny, right,
So I said, you know my story, Miss p you
(32:26):
know what I've done in the city. I don't know
if I've affected his family. Why don't you go ask
him what he thinks? About it. So Jamel in two
minutes or less, what did that conversation sound like? Oh? Yeah.
It was like she came over and I was sitting
in class. Everybody had a mentor, and she was like, yeah,
we finally got your mentor. She was like, yeah, God
(32:46):
is later in her for you two guys, if you
mentor mente. And I don't know if you guys had
any history together, but yeah, I think you guys should
be mentor. I'm like, okay, get on with it. Who
is it? And she's like and you comins? And I'm like, no,
no way, there's no way I'm doing that. And she
(33:07):
was like, okay, fine, we'll get you somebody else. And
I'm like, wait a minute, miss p that was my decision.
Let me pray on that real fast, because I don't
want no more of my decisions to affect my life.
This is my decision, so I wanted to be God's decision.
So I prayed and I opened my eyes and there's
a book on my desk and it was two figures
(33:29):
on a mountain that was written in words, and it
was one pulling the other one up. I was like,
all right, guy, you got it. So it's evident. This
is what you want, this is the path you want
me to take. I'm gonna take it. So he comes
walking through the cafe doors. I'm like an hour and
(33:50):
a half later, Hey, Jamal, come on, have a seat.
So we sit down and say, hey, I used to
be a police officer in City Ben Harbor. I did
some awful things. If I've ever harmed you or your family,
can you let me know. I'd like to apologize for it.
And he's smiling at me the whole time, like, what
does this do? Smile over? This ain't funny. I'm trying
to be serious, and I said so. Once I got
done with my little spiel, I said, look, man, what's
so funny? And he just shook and said he said, man,
we already had this talk. I said we did. He
(34:11):
said yeah, Broadway Park and I was instantly flashed back
to that moment in the park and I was like,
oh shoot. Because I'm a Christian though, and I just
went to apologize and dude, I am so sorry. I
felt like God gave me a second chance. I'm so sorry.
He said, I know, and he was like offended. I know.
(34:31):
I said, dude, there's got to be something I can do.
He's like, nah, it's over. It's over. You were sorry then,
and I trusted that, and I know you are now
you don't have to say it anymore. It's forgiven. It's done.
I was like, dude, can we can we do this
mentor thing? He said, I think God wants us to.
I think God set this up. I said, man, this
is this is blowing my mind. Dude, like four minutes ago,
(34:53):
I'm making chocolate chip cookies and now this like this
is this? Can we pray? He's like, pray? So we
we bowed our heads right there and we prayed the
guy would bless this friendship that God would make basically
beauty for ashes that we give doing our ashes. He
gives us back a crown of beauty. And we prayed
that and he got up. We said hey man. He
(35:13):
got up and walked out because he had an appointment
to get to. And I went in the back and
cried like a child because I felt forgiven. And then
I was We were meeting every week and I was like, yo, bro,
we we need an employee in the cafe, and you
need a job. Are you do you need a job.
He's like, yeah, I need a job. You know I
need a job. I said, well, how about this, because
what if what if I hire you? Or what if
(35:34):
we hire you and you be and what are you
a good worker? Because if I've got to write you up,
things are already tense enough, you know, like h and
he did that. He's just smiling, dude, smile. It's like
it breaks down all board. He's like, nah, man, nah,
I got you, I got you. And he started working.
He was the best worker I had ever seen. I
worked so hard. I've never seen somebody work so hard
(35:55):
in that cafe. So every day I say thank you, Jamale,
thank you so much for putting your all into this,
and this is amazing. Thank you. Do you want to
hit me? He'd be like what. I'd be like, I
just want to check. I just want to make sure
because I don't want to be in the cash for
this to someday and then just getting big old. I
want to make sure I know it's coming. If it's coming.
He's like, no, bro, no, we're good. And now it's
(36:17):
like every three or four months, I'll ask him while
we're on a plane or something, Hey we're still good. Yeah,
look good, all right, and listen y'all. We're finding out
some stuff about reconciliation as we walked this thing out,
because I don't know if y'all notice it or not,
but I'm white. I mean I'm a little darker skin
than most, but I am white and he's black. We
get this. We get that this speaks to our nation
(36:38):
right now, and we don't think we have all the answers,
but we think we have a piece of it. And
the piece we think that we're holding on too right
now is reconciliation. We met a woman who who said
who came down front and said, look, guys, I just
need you to help me pray because I just need
to forgive my mom. She hurt me so bad eighteen
years ago. And I'm understanding that if I'm starting to
treat my child the way she was treating me, because
(37:00):
I'm holding on to this. And we were like, yeah, yeah,
where she yet, bring her down? Let's get her down
here wall pretty together. She's been dead for eighteen years.
She was holding on harbor in that unforgiveness for eighteen
years and the person couldn't do anything about it. So
apology forgiveness, But that's only two pieces for reconciliation. You've
(37:21):
got to come together. The more I get to know
this man, the more I love him as an individual,
the more I love him as a person, not as
a black man, but as a man. And a terrific
job on the production and storytelling by Greg Hangler, and
a special thanks to Andrew Collins and Jamal McGee for
sharing the remarkable journey. And also a special thanks to
(37:42):
Torres Montgomery for sharing the audio of this remarkable story.
And what a story indeed about big things like forgiveness
and reconciliation and what us stud Jamal is what a
man the story of so much he or about God,
about faith, about forgiveness, and ultimately about racial reconciliation and
(38:02):
real human reconciliation. The story of a crooked cop, an
innocent man, and an unlikely journey of forgiveness and friendship.
Here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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