January 9, 2024 • 38 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, this is a story of how faith propelled Dr. Dennis Sempebwa from war-torn Uganda to America... and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is our American stories.
And we tell stories about everything here on this show.
But our favorite subject, well, it's redemption stories. Stories of
faith and hope and love and my goodness, that's the
story of so many Americans, and faith, by the way,
being a fundamental part of a large majority of the
(00:31):
people of this country, and that's why we tell those stories.
And up next the story of doctor Dennis Simpebwe. Dennis,
you were born on April twentieth, nineteen sixty seven, in
a small town in the African nation of Uganda.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Tell us about it, Yo, Ganda, Eastern Africa. Winston Churchill
called it the part of Africa perfect, whether they say,
and happy people, but in the midst of that anarchy
because we had idiomine. If you remember the famous Adia
means so life was tough. I remember earliest memory. I'm
clutching my baby sister's hand. We have to go to
school and there's a dead body in the pathway, but
(01:09):
we're too young to jump over the body. And so
I remember the big debate should I go home. If
I go home, I'm get into trouble, but I can't really,
So I remember getting to tell the Sylvia, Sylvia, closed
your eyes as we get through the body, and then
we counted one to three and jumped over, and then
it goes black. From then, the army wasn't paid, so
(01:29):
at night they would come to our villages and loot
and steal, raping as young as three years old. In fact,
at one point my village almost told the girls were
pregnant by soldiers. And so that's life for me, and
not enough food. I didn't have shoes till I was six.
We'd climb mango trees for lunch, go ova trees for
(01:50):
late for breakfast. It was just tough, tough.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
How did Daman come to power? How does this happen
in the country?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Ida mean?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Was?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's almost like the same story repeated. You look at
Saddam and some of the some of these other big guys.
He was, It was a it was a favorite of
the British. In fact, it was a colonel in the
British army. So so he comes on. He was a
hero at first, but but he turns, he turns on
us and and he gets greedy and starts to then tribalism.
(02:23):
Then it's it's the same old story of Africa when
the power it's it's a power issue, and and and
so he begins to to get nervous when there's a loosi,
there's a power struggle between him and the West, and
like like Gaddafi, you know, it sounds like because he's
he's very he's he's too independent, he won't be a puppet.
(02:44):
But with that comes the subjugation. And his didn't go
to school, so he thinks money can be printed. Then
he's irritated by the Asians, the Indians, because they're they're
running everything. So one day he decides, you know what,
no more Indians. We want the Uganda to be run
by Ugandan and he and he just exists three days.
He expels all Indians in for seventy two hours to
(03:06):
leave the country. And he literally takes Uganans and gives them.
I mean, I remember this picture. I was young. I
remember seeing him on TV walking down the main street.
We had one main street in Kampala, and it was
literally giving shops that you that belonged to Asians has
given them to you take that one, you take, the
shoe shop, you take. And and of course what happened
(03:26):
is hear these Africans who are now running things, but
they were not trained to run. So of course everything plummets, turmoil, inflation,
and so poverty sets in. And what used to be
the pearl of Africa, Uganda was the bread basket of
his Eastern East African cradle before before then the best
(03:46):
hospital was in Kampala, now idiomen. Initially, as he as
he got nervous, he wanted to squelch rebellion. Of course
it became heavier handed. Then he decided to pivot to
the Arab world, and so he wanted to turn Uganda
into a Muslim nation with Sharia law. So it was
illegal to wear mini skirts, and it was illegal. One
(04:07):
day he woke up, he said, I don't want to
see slippers, sandals, slippers, I don't want to see people's feet.
And people were actually literally arrested for for wearing slippers
and sandals in town in Kampala, they'd arrest you. So
it was chaotic, chaotic, but so and then it came,
of course then makes it comes after church, after church.
(04:30):
Then he had to see he didn't like any of
the independent religions expressions of religion where Friday became a
public holiday. So Friday was a public holiday for the Muslims.
Sunday was a public holiday for the so we had
like four days of work, you know. And of course
all of this is his plummet in the economy. If
things are getting worse and worse and worse, and so persecution,
(04:52):
then he began to outlaw all all independent religions or
expressions of faith. And so thus began the person acution.
The archbishop was arrested and killed and so so that
was life under Idi Amine until he was ousted. And
then what happened is all the then the tribalism, and
(05:13):
now those factions of military soldiers, and then the anarchy.
Said in just like some of these other places like
Gaddafi and Libya and Iraq, that's what happened in Uganda.
So we had factions all over, anarchy, rule of law, nothing, nothing,
The army wasn't paid, and they'd come every night to
(05:34):
rape and steal and kill, and it was it was disaster.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
So talk about your parents and what role did they play.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Mine was tragic. My dad was their provider. But he
had other women. In fact, they were more like concubines,
more open. We knew them, We knew them. In fact,
one of them was my what had been my mother's
best friend who lived next door. So Daddy would come
(06:05):
back home and we would see him go to the
neighbors and I remember seeing mommy, you know, just dealing
with wow wow and so and so that was confusing
for me as a boy. And he'd come up drunk
at night eleven PM, usually beating mommy and and but
then every time I came out, I was the first born.
(06:25):
Every time I came out to their little room as
this beating her, he would stop. So that that caused
me to think, oh, oh, I can help you. I
can help mommy. And and over the next few months,
every time I'd make sure to be awake, don't go
to sleep, because you need to rescue mommy. And she
(06:48):
didn't know until recently that I barely slept because whenever
they went to their room, in my little brain, my
little seven year old brain, I was thinking what if
he beats her and kills her? So I'd sit right
at their door, oh night, And it made me rescue it.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And when we come back, more of this remarkable life
story and how he ends up coming here to the
United States and doing remarkable things with his life.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
More of the life.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Story of doctor Dennis Simpebwe here on our American Stories.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
If you love the great American stories we tell and
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Go to our American Stories dot com now and go
(07:50):
to the donate button and help us keep the great
American stories coming. That's our American Stories dot Com and
we continue with our American Stories in the life of
(08:11):
doctor Dennis sim Pebwe. We just heard why seven year
old Dennis wouldn't sleep at night, knowing that he was
the only person around who could rescue his mom from
being abused by.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
His alcoholic father.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Dennis tell us the effects your family environment have on you.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I'm getting depressed. I'm learning about my history. I'm learning
that no Sempebua that's my last name, had lived beyond
age forty. They were all womanizes, an alcoholic alics, and
they had died young and so but I strolled into
an event. You know, one time, Mommy said, there's a crusade.
This guy was coming from Nigeria and he was going
to talk about crusade God. And so mom, Mom took
(08:54):
me to this crusade, a big open air event, and
this guy was talking about peace. God can give you peace.
And in my brain I was thinking, yeah, but how?
And then it was as a It's as though this
man could hear me because all the questions I asked,
he would scream out, don't you wonder how you don't need?
(09:15):
So I'm like, well, but I have to How is
he gonna do? You want to know how I was
gonna do it. I'm like, I'm thinking he can read
my mind? What's going on? But but you know, then
eventually said, if you want this peace, come and I
was the first time, Mommy, let's go. I want I
want peace. I want peace, and and we prayed a
prayer and and I was going home that night because
(09:36):
it was five o'clock and five o'clock was scary for
me because the sun was gonna set and and was
that the night ould see my sisters raped, my mother raped?
Was I going to die? Was I going to spend
the night outside because sometimes we didn't. It was too
dangerous to sleep in the house, so we'd run around
all night well during these military raids, looking for places
to hide. But this particular night, January twelfth, nineteen eighty,
(09:59):
there was peace, and I was thinking, Oh, I'm not scared.
I got home. My sister asks me, Dennis, what are
you happy? What are you giddy about? I said, I
don't know. I just I think God's given me peace.
And she looked at me, rode her eyes and says,
go to sleep, you're tired. Next morning, I woke up
and think I still have peace. I still have peace, said,
And I couldn't wait to go to school. Now, mornings
(10:21):
were terrible in class because every empty seat meant they
were either killed or their mothers were raped or whatever
they were displaced. So but this morning, January thirteenth, nineteen eighty,
I'm like, I'm a little smiles. My friends are looking
at me. What's wrong with you? Dennis? I was a
class captain. I said, I don't know, guys, I just
(10:41):
know that yesterday I prayed a prayer and I asked
God to be part of my life, and I think
it did. And After a while, they wanted me to
explain why I was happy, and I said it he said,
you know what, I give my life to God because
he They said, what do you mean God? I said,
I don't know. It's God loves us, that he cares
that what he done for me, he can do for you.
And I've become an instant evangelist. In fact, because after
(11:04):
thirty days, after the first month, I had had like
fifty of my friends all coming to church with me,
and we were all that we had a happy corner
and they knew it. That's the happy corner. Dennis said,
this happy corner, and people were curious. But I began
to see to have this, this idea that God gave
(11:25):
me peace that transcended my environment, something that was that
blew my mind that I still can't explain to this day.
But it's as real because I've lived it.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And this would be why dictators hate God.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, because they couldn't. In fact, the peace came
from inside. It didn't matter. In fact, it got worse
my environment. This is what I have a problem with,
the simplistic perspective on God fixing. And so even though
a man was ousted and there was other very urn
(12:00):
ambulent dictators that came around that actually killed en mass.
But I mean would have barrier, a barrier almost every
week of a friend or But but I was giddy
and happy, not not giddy, giddy, but I had joy.
The Bible talks about it as as joy unspeakable, joy unspeakable.
(12:21):
I was peaceful, had shalom. Do you just called it shalom?
The peace that transcends circumstances. That's what I got, and
I could share it with I've shared it over eighty
countries now forty for forty years. It's the same. Whether
it's a prostitute in Amsterdam and a beggar in India,
(12:41):
it doesn't matter, or a multi millionaire in Beverly Hills.
There's this peace that God gives that is this unmatched.
I was ready to pour out what I had inside
of me, so excited that that a path was created
for me. We began, we formed a single group, began singing,
(13:01):
and as we sang, oh, the schools wanted to hear us.
All of a sudden, We're the biggest thing in town.
We started to Then we started to we had we
had a church service. We go to church, but we
started to we told I told the pastor, hey, can
we just come play music a whole hour before the
church starts. He said, I okay, And so we just
(13:22):
started playing. We would play music, and six seven thousand
kids would just come listen. They were mesmerized. And of course,
of all I wasn't promising, which is cool is I
wasn't saying God's gonna come fix your world. But have
God in your life and your world will make sense.
But not be fixed makes sense. You'll have a reason
(13:43):
to wake up the spring in your in your feet.
And he can do that. He can do that. I've
seen him do that. And so that began to change.
My father would die of aides, which was like okay,
because he was a womanizer and all that. And then
then for a while we're thinking, Mommy going to die too,
But and that America happened. You know, Mammy isn't dying.
(14:06):
And so a lot of people now after Amen leaves
or the anarchy, now we had AIDS, AIDS epidemic. Entire
villages had just kids running around with their parents dead,
rotting in their homes because remember those anarchy, so all
the services are there's no services, there's no, there's one
doctor to fifty seventy thousand people. So so so again
(14:28):
more chaos. In fact, that's when the British media said
to say Uganda is cursed after a men after all
this now aids so so this again. In the midst
of that, we kept preaching singing Joy transcendent in the
midst of death, and some group came from England heard
(14:52):
us sing. They invited us to England. We went and
sang in this one church. That church happened to have
the editor of Voice magazine and the Black Britain and BBC,
and they're all going to this iconic church called Kensington Temple.
And when we sang, they all like, next day we're
on radio where all over they called it the African
(15:13):
group from Africa that's taking England by storm. And that
year we won the award for Best British New Artist.
We're not even English, we're not even British. But but
but again the same message. I remember when we recorded.
Then we recorded one song that became a club hit
in London. All all the nightclubs praying playing this song.
(15:35):
It's called Let's go Don't Pass Me By, Lord, Don't
pass me By. But they loved it again, the message
transcending culture. And here we are now in nightclubs, the
the biggest nightclubs in Europe. I remember seeing Muhammad Ali
and all these guys, and you know, just the there
we were the group, a gospel group in the midst
(15:56):
of like some of us have never even been to
a club, but we were featured. So so the music
opening doors, the message transcending received an invitation to America Chicago.
Same thing happened before we know it, where all this
in all these places, get a five album deal and
and that opens up a global, global ministry of music
(16:20):
that took us to forty countries and same song, same
same message piece this peace.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So how does the singer become a doctor?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Ah? I bump into this, this gentleman who had a
distance learning program and so a record time bachelor's, master's PhD.
All still singing. As soon as I was don doing that,
a church approached me and said, can you start a
(16:52):
college for us? I said, I'm a singer. I said no,
but you're singer with a PhD. So we a lot
of founded at college because the International College of Excellence,
and that got me into academics instead. Of twenty two
compasses in eight countries and then filmed an organization called
Egos Wings International and I'm just going to just wear
(17:13):
good hubs now in twenty six countries again. You know
the message, say message, God's.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Amazing, God's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Simple words words he absorbed and then words well that
drove the rest of his life and his core message.
When we come back, this remarkable story and a remarkable
immigrant story, an American dreamers story like almost none other.
We've told here on this show, the story of doctor
(17:42):
Dennis Simpebwe here on our American stories, and we continue
(18:08):
with our American stories and doctor Dennis in Pebwe's story. Dennis,
your band's success took you to the heights of music
in Africa. You took Europe by storm, and then you
were invited to America.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Tell us about it. It was stumbled to Chicago first,
nineteen ninety three, came sung in this little Romanian church.
You know, we're like gay, put your house together, Yeah,
and they were like looking on us like we were
the first black people to ever Greeze that stage. They
almost fell over and they were like these Africas, so
they almost patronizingly. Then I found out the Baptists don't
(18:46):
clap hands, and I'm like, okay, okay, but but we
just we just you know what. And so the next
next tomorrow, you're going to sing again tomorrow, but could
you not have the music because they didn't like the
tracks like guitars and and all that. So so we said, okay,
So we decided to sing a cappella. And so my
(19:06):
wife was in there, which was she was She said,
we loved you, and I'm like, you sure.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
With the church, it was a little tough for them,
but but I don't think they're going to have you back,
but you know, so, so but she and her friend
took us to the next church and and there that
was a black church. I was like, a wouldn't going crazy.
They had never seen Africans like us doing we we
(19:32):
were just wearing all African hats and we just went
outrageous in them and they just loved it. And she
almost fainted because it was now it was too loud.
She's from Romania, so she shared a similar story of
chow ches school. While she was sharing about waking up
at five am landing up for groceries, I said, yeah,
we did too, we had no guts. Yeah we did too.
(19:52):
That if you had a car you just looked at
Yeah we did too. The blackouts. Yeah, so so that
connected us and very different stories.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
My dictator is worse than your dictator.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yes, yeah, exactly. Her Dictata was more dignified. Hours when
he was deposed, he had heads of his enemies in
his refrigerator. It was it was, yeah, it was, it was.
It was terrible. He believed the Wish doctors had told
him keep them, you need to eat their brains. It was,
it was. It was actually a true story. But we
connected and and and you know, got married. Very difficult
(20:25):
because I'm the heir of the family and I had
to maintain the integrity of my bloodline and there I
was going to contaminate it with with white blood. So
that was that was a tribal, major tribal issue. But
they got over it and it became a story. I
was the couple of the year in the Uganda and
at the time, and how.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Did her Romanian family feel about you?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Ah, that was different because again she was the only
daughter her dad, an ex Navy officer who who had
migrated from religious prosecution to come Chicago. They were okay,
it was interesting. They were okay. They would have black
people come to their house. They were okay until one
of the black people wanted to marry the only daughter.
(21:11):
Because then and so Ingrid was saying, but my dad
is not racist. I'm like, I know, I know, I said.
I said, you know, if I was your dad and
all I saw on television was black people from the
South Side of Chicago involved in gangs and Da Da
dah and hip hop and and you know, I'd be scared.
(21:34):
I would be concerned. Your dad's and this is worse
than those black people. I'm from Africa. I'm dude, he
doesn't it doesn't even know where. She doesn't. And then
I had this funny hair, I had half a head shaved.
So so I said, I understand your dad, and she's like,
you do, you don't. I said, no, it's not. It's
(21:55):
it's it's a tribal thing. It's it's it's it's he's
used to white, used to which is for me. It
helps me also understand that some of the the because
I've been all over the world and I don't think
people are all as racists like that. I think it's
an affinity issue. When a white person sees another white person,
(22:16):
there's a natural affinity to white. When you see black,
you're like, okay, black because because I've been to certain
countries where I'm on the only black person for our
like a week and so so like somewhere. We went
to Siberia once and I didn't see anybody until one
Nigerian girl. And the minute I saw her, I was
like who because it was like, oh, my kind, that's
(22:39):
my kind. He's here, he's here.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So there's a lot of that that's in play many
times when we get overly simplistic about race. In fact,
you got on the phone one time and said, I
don't want you to marry my daughter. I don't want
mixed kids, he told me, And she was like, so like, Dad,
you can't say that, you god fearing man. But the
(23:03):
challenge that had come to his home and he had
to decide can I love this guy who's different than me?
And can my faith the faith that i've because it's
one thing talking about and singing about it, but now
it was in your home, is this my brother? It
didn't matter that I was a Christian just like him
I had. I was a different color and he didn't
(23:24):
know what to do with that. Eventually, though, they reluctantly
and we said, you know, we're not gonna get married
until they are okay, which took another three years. My
whole country became okay, but her her family had a
problem until they they said, okay, I guess we got
married today. Of course, where where the the you know,
(23:47):
I'm the favorite, favorite son in law and we're so
Titan've given him and them five grandkids and it's just
a beautiful story.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I've heard you talk about the simple of faith, but
talk about simplicity of faith and wrapping your head around
faith intellectually.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
See when when we were brought when faith came to us,
it wasn't it didn't make sense. In fact, I remember
the first time I had to sit down, sit my
friends down, when they cornered me and said, explain why
you're happy? There's death all around? Why are you happy?
I said, okay, sit down, So I said, okay. In
two thousand years ago, God loved the world.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I lost them right away, Lee, because five of them
one was Muslim, when there was one was was a traditionalist.
That no, which which is he had all this talent
talents ban from from from the gods. So but he
was old, like ready to just kill me, you know,
because I had to expla I was going to explain
why I was happy, why God faith made sense. So
(24:53):
I said, two thousand and years ago, the Bible says,
what do you mean the Bible? I'm like, oh, I'm
in trouble. Yeah, this book it said it said God
sent his son. First of all, he said, God love
the When I said God love the world, they just like, ah, Dennis,
because gods don't love. In our culture, God is a mean.
(25:13):
They they restrict the rain, so you have to sacrifice
to them so rain can come and crops can grow,
and they take away your fertility. You have to so
that's that's what they used to So God and Love
was like, eh said, I said, wait, you want to
know why I'm happy? Sit down. So I carry the
story and says he sent, He sent his only son
(25:36):
to die for you and me. Ah, I lost them
again because they might try. In fact, one of them said,
what sort of God is that? What sort of is
a weak God? He said, because in my tribe, you
don't give your only son for nothing, because you only
your son is the future. How could God give his
son for people he doesn't even know? So I said,
(25:58):
just keep quiet.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now I'm noticing I'm in trouble already because the story
is gonna get more ridiculous. So I'm thinking, oh God,
And they told us Dennis, if you can't explain, we're
going to beat you. It was it was like where
they going to beat me up or whatever? So so
I said, I said, okay, he gave his son, his
son died. He said, ah huh. Then I said, then
it rose again.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I lost them again because because they were saying, oh,
how can he rise again? I said, okay, okay, he
rose again, Okay, and then I and then I said,
then I said, oh, I said, I'm going to be
in trouble. Said, I said, and and you know what,
he's he's here right now. And they're like, what do
you mean he's here? I thought, he said two thousand
and said, well, his presence is here. And I said, oh,
(26:43):
now keep quiet, and he wants to be part of
your life. And I said, if you if you believe
this ridiculous story, you can have what I have.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
If you believe this ridiculous story, you can have what
I have when we come back. This remarkable American story
continues here on our American stories and we continue with
(27:38):
our American stories and doctor Dennison Pebwe's story. Dennis, we
left off with you sharing your faith in Christ with
your African friends.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You ended with these.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Words, if you believe this ridiculous story, you can have
what I have.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
What happened next and they.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Looked at me like, and I said, you know, I
might as well go for it, said, you know what,
you know what I did to get this. I prayed
this prayer, pray with this prayer with me. And they
looked at me like, I said, pray, pray, ye, pray,
pray this prayer. Say said, God, thank you for sending
your son to die for me. I believe this, this amazing, crazy,
crazy story come into my life. And they looked at
(28:17):
me like and then Lee, I saw one of them
was shedding a tear. He had shed a tear, the
meanest one, but he was being macho. Of course he's like.
So the meeting ended and next day, yeah, you know
that story. I think it's real. I said it is, yeah,
(28:40):
because he said yeah, because I feel the piece, the
piece you talked about. I want to know, tell me
to church. And I was like, then I am, I am.
I'm like, whoa, It's it's powerful. It's not just a
nice little story. The story has power. And that there
was my beginning. And I've gone around the world that
(29:04):
I lived in England for a while, and I had
an option to live in Sweden and Australia at a
certain point, and I've been to eighty of them, eighty two.
In fact, there's no place like America. There's no place
there's no place like this. In fact, I have friends
who even are in leadership in those countries wanting to come.
(29:27):
I remember sitting with this Malaysian billionaire. He had actually
rented out the whole theater. One of the Transformers movies
was coming out. He says, I hate America, he said.
He said, but ah, it's good that America is good though.
We like America, and it's good to America. Is America.
Something was happening here to intellectual said, Americans, don't be stupid.
(29:49):
Why are you tearing your country country or part? Wait,
I hate that you're on top, but I won't kind
of like it that you're on top. It was it's
interesting to hear him say that. My friends call me,
especially with all the race things racial, you know, you know,
they call and say, oh, Dennis, praying for you. You
(30:11):
must be running for your life. You must be, you
must be. You're hunted, right, I'm like, what do you
mean hunted? Yeah, because they're hunting black people. I said no,
wah wait wait wait wait, what do you mean hunted?
I said no, no, no, no said, I said, no, no, no, no,
I'm okay. This is beautiful country. See see I don't
have and I and I talked. I've got tons of
black friends, of course, and sometimes they remember getting this
(30:35):
one award and some some some we got this. I
got this award and and my name was red last.
And my friend calls me, do you know what your
name was? Red last? Because you're black? I'm like, no,
because some s my last name is s alphabetically I'm
going to be I said no, No, I said, because say,
I don't have the the history that that some of
(30:58):
my friends do. But it's a but it's not an
experienced history. It's a it's a borrowed history. There's no
black man here who's who's ever been a slave in
her so so and there's no white man who's her
own slaves that is alived here today. But yet in
Africa we still own slaves, we still have slaves. Slavery
is not an American invention, and and and so and
(31:22):
so for me here this is a beautiful country and
and the freedoms. When I'm stopped by the police, yes,
I sometimes I walk into the grocery, into a jury
store with my wife. She's white. Of course, sometimes they
look at her more in they think she's the one
going to buy and and maybe I shouldn't be there.
I've had that, but I don't go like me. So
(31:45):
so she goes and picks this stone, and she likes
to do this, she says, and because they don't think
that we arrived together. And she will say, honey, should
I get this one? Then all of a sudden they
look at me like, oh, he's paying. But I don't
go like, yeah, you see it's me. No, I'm like
I understand because based on the conditioning this this again exposure.
(32:11):
So so is this is this a racist country? Absolutely not.
Is there historic racism yes, of course the books, yes,
when a cop stops me, I'm not thinking racism. I'm like, oh,
I probably fit a profile, a profile of and then
when it comes and it's nervous around me, it's because
(32:33):
there's numbers that show that people like me could do more.
He doesn't know, so I don't go like I I I, well,
here's my because I want to get home. I want
to go home, down, go home. So so here's my
license's Are you okay, ELVISA? Are you doing officer? I'm
pleasant and I have never had problems. I drive a
(32:54):
nicer car, and so if I'm watched, I understand. I
don't go into because I have lived an experience that
is far worse. And so I appreciate the wealth of America.
I see what this country. There is no country like this, Lee,
I know that for a fact, there's no country that
(33:16):
offers these unsurpassed, unmatched freedoms and opportunities like this country does.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And let's talk last about what you hope and pray
for America and some of the things you worry about
for the country that adopted you and then you call home.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I worry about the loss of some of the things
that made this country amazing. In fact, when we talk
with my in laws, my Ingrid's parents are still alive
and they're from Romania, and they run away from that.
So we could we talk almost commiserating. You're like, oh
(33:57):
my godness, all this is how because they he says,
He says, they said, Dennis, I remember when they told us,
because it's Romani Romania. I remember when they first said,
they came to my mother. My father in law said,
they came to my mom and they said, you have
the shop. We have to we have to get we
have the government has to take over your shop because
(34:18):
it's the biggest and we need to make sure this
equal distribution of wealth. So they took it. He said,
I remember that. I remember when they offered us free
health care. We were so excited. He said, but that
created this this craziness where few people had the power
(34:39):
and and and and they said and and then and
so we're terrifyingly listen to some of the news, and
we watched the news, and we're like, this is what
we run away from. We run away from. We fled
our countries to come here to experience certain freedoms which
are fleeting. We're forgetting that. The I worry about God,
(35:03):
even God, the place for God, the place because if
there's no absolute truth seeing my tribe. I've written a
book called Timeless Truths and and and Africa the richest
proverb richest cultures were preserved by these sayings, these proverbs,
and and and it's at the fireplaces that where we
learned what a man does, a woman does. Men they care,
(35:28):
they protect, they treat their wives. And we learn these things.
That's that's lost. It's getting lost here because there's everything
is subjective. I want to be this kind of man.
I don't want to work, really, yeah, because I don't
want to work. Sorry. So so so that that is
(35:50):
now becoming mainstreamed. I've got a sad who's in college.
He just finished. I call it college actually, And my
daughter said that that is the things we're learning that
America is not great, that our history is you know,
every country has history, has every country like slavery has
been in every culture. African's own slaves, Like I said, so, yes,
(36:14):
we have a path that's gone here, but there's no
country two hundred years. Look what America has done in
two hundred years. It's an incredible experiment. So we worry
that we're borrowing too much of we're idealizing what other
countries have and we're losing what's made as great. There's
no country as benevolent as this. We're good people here.
(36:38):
There is no country quite like this. And I don't
see any on the horizon because because it's getting crazier
out there. I think right now the values that made us,
Oh yeah, if there's ever been a time for us
to trumpet these values, it's now America, the Free, the brave,
Home of the brave and the free. Oujah.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And you've been listening to doctor Dennis and Pebue And
what a storyteller, and what a story to tell, and
what a perspective to see America the lens with which
he views this country as an immigrant from some place
like Uganda, or his bride coming from a communist bloc
country and having to deal with the false promises of
(37:24):
the regime that took over her country. And for those
who have faith, Oh my goodness, Doctor Dennis in the
end was happy in Uganda. In Uganda, and by the way,
to learn more about doctor Dennis, who now has PhDs,
has co founded an international college in Chicago, which quickly
(37:46):
grew to twenty two extension campuses in eight countries, and
he's also founded a global missionary organization and started one
of the largest and fastest growing fully accredited ministry training
institutions in the world. And this is what he's managed
to do with his life in this country. Doctor Dennis
in Pebwe's story here on our American Stories
This is Lee Habib and this is our American stories.
And we tell stories about everything here on this show.
But our favorite subject, well, it's redemption stories. Stories of
faith and hope and love and my goodness, that's the
story of so many Americans, and faith, by the way,
being a fundamental part of a large majority of the
(00:31):
people of this country, and that's why we tell those stories.
And up next the story of doctor Dennis Simpebwe. Dennis,
you were born on April twentieth, nineteen sixty seven, in
a small town in the African nation of Uganda.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Tell us about it, Yo, Ganda, Eastern Africa. Winston Churchill
called it the part of Africa perfect, whether they say,
and happy people, but in the midst of that anarchy
because we had idiomine. If you remember the famous Adia
means so life was tough. I remember earliest memory. I'm
clutching my baby sister's hand. We have to go to
school and there's a dead body in the pathway, but
(01:09):
we're too young to jump over the body. And so
I remember the big debate should I go home. If
I go home, I'm get into trouble, but I can't really,
So I remember getting to tell the Sylvia, Sylvia, closed
your eyes as we get through the body, and then
we counted one to three and jumped over, and then
it goes black. From then, the army wasn't paid, so
(01:29):
at night they would come to our villages and loot
and steal, raping as young as three years old. In fact,
at one point my village almost told the girls were
pregnant by soldiers. And so that's life for me, and
not enough food. I didn't have shoes till I was six.
We'd climb mango trees for lunch, go ova trees for
(01:50):
late for breakfast. It was just tough, tough.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
How did Daman come to power? How does this happen
in the country?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Ida mean?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Was?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's almost like the same story repeated. You look at
Saddam and some of the some of these other big guys.
He was, It was a it was a favorite of
the British. In fact, it was a colonel in the
British army. So so he comes on. He was a
hero at first, but but he turns, he turns on
us and and he gets greedy and starts to then tribalism.
(02:23):
Then it's it's the same old story of Africa when
the power it's it's a power issue, and and and
so he begins to to get nervous when there's a loosi,
there's a power struggle between him and the West, and
like like Gaddafi, you know, it sounds like because he's
he's very he's he's too independent, he won't be a puppet.
(02:44):
But with that comes the subjugation. And his didn't go
to school, so he thinks money can be printed. Then
he's irritated by the Asians, the Indians, because they're they're
running everything. So one day he decides, you know what,
no more Indians. We want the Uganda to be run
by Ugandan and he and he just exists three days.
He expels all Indians in for seventy two hours to
(03:06):
leave the country. And he literally takes Uganans and gives them.
I mean, I remember this picture. I was young. I
remember seeing him on TV walking down the main street.
We had one main street in Kampala, and it was
literally giving shops that you that belonged to Asians has
given them to you take that one, you take, the
shoe shop, you take. And and of course what happened
(03:26):
is hear these Africans who are now running things, but
they were not trained to run. So of course everything plummets, turmoil, inflation,
and so poverty sets in. And what used to be
the pearl of Africa, Uganda was the bread basket of
his Eastern East African cradle before before then the best
(03:46):
hospital was in Kampala, now idiomen. Initially, as he as
he got nervous, he wanted to squelch rebellion. Of course
it became heavier handed. Then he decided to pivot to
the Arab world, and so he wanted to turn Uganda
into a Muslim nation with Sharia law. So it was
illegal to wear mini skirts, and it was illegal. One
(04:07):
day he woke up, he said, I don't want to
see slippers, sandals, slippers, I don't want to see people's feet.
And people were actually literally arrested for for wearing slippers
and sandals in town in Kampala, they'd arrest you. So
it was chaotic, chaotic, but so and then it came,
of course then makes it comes after church, after church.
(04:30):
Then he had to see he didn't like any of
the independent religions expressions of religion where Friday became a
public holiday. So Friday was a public holiday for the Muslims.
Sunday was a public holiday for the so we had
like four days of work, you know. And of course
all of this is his plummet in the economy. If
things are getting worse and worse and worse, and so persecution,
(04:52):
then he began to outlaw all all independent religions or
expressions of faith. And so thus began the person acution.
The archbishop was arrested and killed and so so that
was life under Idi Amine until he was ousted. And
then what happened is all the then the tribalism, and
(05:13):
now those factions of military soldiers, and then the anarchy.
Said in just like some of these other places like
Gaddafi and Libya and Iraq, that's what happened in Uganda.
So we had factions all over, anarchy, rule of law, nothing, nothing,
The army wasn't paid, and they'd come every night to
(05:34):
rape and steal and kill, and it was it was disaster.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
So talk about your parents and what role did they play.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Mine was tragic. My dad was their provider. But he
had other women. In fact, they were more like concubines,
more open. We knew them, We knew them. In fact,
one of them was my what had been my mother's
best friend who lived next door. So Daddy would come
(06:05):
back home and we would see him go to the
neighbors and I remember seeing mommy, you know, just dealing
with wow wow and so and so that was confusing
for me as a boy. And he'd come up drunk
at night eleven PM, usually beating mommy and and but
then every time I came out, I was the first born.
(06:25):
Every time I came out to their little room as
this beating her, he would stop. So that that caused
me to think, oh, oh, I can help you. I
can help mommy. And and over the next few months,
every time I'd make sure to be awake, don't go
to sleep, because you need to rescue mommy. And she
(06:48):
didn't know until recently that I barely slept because whenever
they went to their room, in my little brain, my
little seven year old brain, I was thinking what if
he beats her and kills her? So I'd sit right
at their door, oh night, And it made me rescue it.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And when we come back, more of this remarkable life
story and how he ends up coming here to the
United States and doing remarkable things with his life.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
More of the life.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Story of doctor Dennis Simpebwe here on our American Stories.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
If you love the great American stories we tell and
love America like we do, we're asking you to become
a part of the our American Stories family. If you
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Go to our American Stories dot com now and go
(07:50):
to the donate button and help us keep the great
American stories coming. That's our American Stories dot Com and
we continue with our American Stories in the life of
(08:11):
doctor Dennis sim Pebwe. We just heard why seven year
old Dennis wouldn't sleep at night, knowing that he was
the only person around who could rescue his mom from
being abused by.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
His alcoholic father.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Dennis tell us the effects your family environment have on you.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I'm getting depressed. I'm learning about my history. I'm learning
that no Sempebua that's my last name, had lived beyond
age forty. They were all womanizes, an alcoholic alics, and
they had died young and so but I strolled into
an event. You know, one time, Mommy said, there's a crusade.
This guy was coming from Nigeria and he was going
to talk about crusade God. And so mom, Mom took
(08:54):
me to this crusade, a big open air event, and
this guy was talking about peace. God can give you peace.
And in my brain I was thinking, yeah, but how?
And then it was as a It's as though this
man could hear me because all the questions I asked,
he would scream out, don't you wonder how you don't need?
(09:15):
So I'm like, well, but I have to How is
he gonna do? You want to know how I was
gonna do it. I'm like, I'm thinking he can read
my mind? What's going on? But but you know, then
eventually said, if you want this peace, come and I
was the first time, Mommy, let's go. I want I
want peace. I want peace, and and we prayed a
prayer and and I was going home that night because
(09:36):
it was five o'clock and five o'clock was scary for
me because the sun was gonna set and and was
that the night ould see my sisters raped, my mother raped?
Was I going to die? Was I going to spend
the night outside because sometimes we didn't. It was too
dangerous to sleep in the house, so we'd run around
all night well during these military raids, looking for places
to hide. But this particular night, January twelfth, nineteen eighty,
(09:59):
there was peace, and I was thinking, Oh, I'm not scared.
I got home. My sister asks me, Dennis, what are
you happy? What are you giddy about? I said, I
don't know. I just I think God's given me peace.
And she looked at me, rode her eyes and says,
go to sleep, you're tired. Next morning, I woke up
and think I still have peace. I still have peace, said,
And I couldn't wait to go to school. Now, mornings
(10:21):
were terrible in class because every empty seat meant they
were either killed or their mothers were raped or whatever
they were displaced. So but this morning, January thirteenth, nineteen eighty,
I'm like, I'm a little smiles. My friends are looking
at me. What's wrong with you? Dennis? I was a
class captain. I said, I don't know, guys, I just
(10:41):
know that yesterday I prayed a prayer and I asked
God to be part of my life, and I think
it did. And After a while, they wanted me to
explain why I was happy, and I said it he said,
you know what, I give my life to God because
he They said, what do you mean God? I said,
I don't know. It's God loves us, that he cares
that what he done for me, he can do for you.
And I've become an instant evangelist. In fact, because after
(11:04):
thirty days, after the first month, I had had like
fifty of my friends all coming to church with me,
and we were all that we had a happy corner
and they knew it. That's the happy corner. Dennis said,
this happy corner, and people were curious. But I began
to see to have this, this idea that God gave
(11:25):
me peace that transcended my environment, something that was that
blew my mind that I still can't explain to this day.
But it's as real because I've lived it.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And this would be why dictators hate God.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, because they couldn't. In fact, the peace came
from inside. It didn't matter. In fact, it got worse
my environment. This is what I have a problem with,
the simplistic perspective on God fixing. And so even though
a man was ousted and there was other very urn
(12:00):
ambulent dictators that came around that actually killed en mass.
But I mean would have barrier, a barrier almost every
week of a friend or But but I was giddy
and happy, not not giddy, giddy, but I had joy.
The Bible talks about it as as joy unspeakable, joy unspeakable.
(12:21):
I was peaceful, had shalom. Do you just called it shalom?
The peace that transcends circumstances. That's what I got, and
I could share it with I've shared it over eighty
countries now forty for forty years. It's the same. Whether
it's a prostitute in Amsterdam and a beggar in India,
(12:41):
it doesn't matter, or a multi millionaire in Beverly Hills.
There's this peace that God gives that is this unmatched.
I was ready to pour out what I had inside
of me, so excited that that a path was created
for me. We began, we formed a single group, began singing,
(13:01):
and as we sang, oh, the schools wanted to hear us.
All of a sudden, We're the biggest thing in town.
We started to Then we started to we had we
had a church service. We go to church, but we
started to we told I told the pastor, hey, can
we just come play music a whole hour before the
church starts. He said, I okay, And so we just
(13:22):
started playing. We would play music, and six seven thousand
kids would just come listen. They were mesmerized. And of course,
of all I wasn't promising, which is cool is I
wasn't saying God's gonna come fix your world. But have
God in your life and your world will make sense.
But not be fixed makes sense. You'll have a reason
(13:43):
to wake up the spring in your in your feet.
And he can do that. He can do that. I've
seen him do that. And so that began to change.
My father would die of aides, which was like okay,
because he was a womanizer and all that. And then
then for a while we're thinking, Mommy going to die too,
But and that America happened. You know, Mammy isn't dying.
(14:06):
And so a lot of people now after Amen leaves
or the anarchy, now we had AIDS, AIDS epidemic. Entire
villages had just kids running around with their parents dead,
rotting in their homes because remember those anarchy, so all
the services are there's no services, there's no, there's one
doctor to fifty seventy thousand people. So so so again
(14:28):
more chaos. In fact, that's when the British media said
to say Uganda is cursed after a men after all
this now aids so so this again. In the midst
of that, we kept preaching singing Joy transcendent in the
midst of death, and some group came from England heard
(14:52):
us sing. They invited us to England. We went and
sang in this one church. That church happened to have
the editor of Voice magazine and the Black Britain and BBC,
and they're all going to this iconic church called Kensington Temple.
And when we sang, they all like, next day we're
on radio where all over they called it the African
(15:13):
group from Africa that's taking England by storm. And that
year we won the award for Best British New Artist.
We're not even English, we're not even British. But but
but again the same message. I remember when we recorded.
Then we recorded one song that became a club hit
in London. All all the nightclubs praying playing this song.
(15:35):
It's called Let's go Don't Pass Me By, Lord, Don't
pass me By. But they loved it again, the message
transcending culture. And here we are now in nightclubs, the
the biggest nightclubs in Europe. I remember seeing Muhammad Ali
and all these guys, and you know, just the there
we were the group, a gospel group in the midst
(15:56):
of like some of us have never even been to
a club, but we were featured. So so the music
opening doors, the message transcending received an invitation to America Chicago.
Same thing happened before we know it, where all this
in all these places, get a five album deal and
and that opens up a global, global ministry of music
(16:20):
that took us to forty countries and same song, same
same message piece this peace.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So how does the singer become a doctor?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Ah? I bump into this, this gentleman who had a
distance learning program and so a record time bachelor's, master's PhD.
All still singing. As soon as I was don doing that,
a church approached me and said, can you start a
(16:52):
college for us? I said, I'm a singer. I said no,
but you're singer with a PhD. So we a lot
of founded at college because the International College of Excellence,
and that got me into academics instead. Of twenty two
compasses in eight countries and then filmed an organization called
Egos Wings International and I'm just going to just wear
(17:13):
good hubs now in twenty six countries again. You know
the message, say message, God's.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Amazing, God's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Simple words words he absorbed and then words well that
drove the rest of his life and his core message.
When we come back, this remarkable story and a remarkable
immigrant story, an American dreamers story like almost none other.
We've told here on this show, the story of doctor
(17:42):
Dennis Simpebwe here on our American stories, and we continue
(18:08):
with our American stories and doctor Dennis in Pebwe's story. Dennis,
your band's success took you to the heights of music
in Africa. You took Europe by storm, and then you
were invited to America.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Tell us about it. It was stumbled to Chicago first,
nineteen ninety three, came sung in this little Romanian church.
You know, we're like gay, put your house together, Yeah,
and they were like looking on us like we were
the first black people to ever Greeze that stage. They
almost fell over and they were like these Africas, so
they almost patronizingly. Then I found out the Baptists don't
(18:46):
clap hands, and I'm like, okay, okay, but but we
just we just you know what. And so the next
next tomorrow, you're going to sing again tomorrow, but could
you not have the music because they didn't like the
tracks like guitars and and all that. So so we said, okay,
So we decided to sing a cappella. And so my
(19:06):
wife was in there, which was she was She said,
we loved you, and I'm like, you sure.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
With the church, it was a little tough for them,
but but I don't think they're going to have you back,
but you know, so, so but she and her friend
took us to the next church and and there that
was a black church. I was like, a wouldn't going crazy.
They had never seen Africans like us doing we we
(19:32):
were just wearing all African hats and we just went
outrageous in them and they just loved it. And she
almost fainted because it was now it was too loud.
She's from Romania, so she shared a similar story of
chow ches school. While she was sharing about waking up
at five am landing up for groceries, I said, yeah,
we did too, we had no guts. Yeah we did too.
(19:52):
That if you had a car you just looked at
Yeah we did too. The blackouts. Yeah, so so that
connected us and very different stories.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
My dictator is worse than your dictator.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yes, yeah, exactly. Her Dictata was more dignified. Hours when
he was deposed, he had heads of his enemies in
his refrigerator. It was it was, yeah, it was, it was.
It was terrible. He believed the Wish doctors had told
him keep them, you need to eat their brains. It was,
it was. It was actually a true story. But we
connected and and and you know, got married. Very difficult
(20:25):
because I'm the heir of the family and I had
to maintain the integrity of my bloodline and there I
was going to contaminate it with with white blood. So
that was that was a tribal, major tribal issue. But
they got over it and it became a story. I
was the couple of the year in the Uganda and
at the time, and how.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Did her Romanian family feel about you?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Ah, that was different because again she was the only
daughter her dad, an ex Navy officer who who had
migrated from religious prosecution to come Chicago. They were okay,
it was interesting. They were okay. They would have black
people come to their house. They were okay until one
of the black people wanted to marry the only daughter.
(21:11):
Because then and so Ingrid was saying, but my dad
is not racist. I'm like, I know, I know, I said.
I said, you know, if I was your dad and
all I saw on television was black people from the
South Side of Chicago involved in gangs and Da Da
dah and hip hop and and you know, I'd be scared.
(21:34):
I would be concerned. Your dad's and this is worse
than those black people. I'm from Africa. I'm dude, he
doesn't it doesn't even know where. She doesn't. And then
I had this funny hair, I had half a head shaved.
So so I said, I understand your dad, and she's like,
you do, you don't. I said, no, it's not. It's
(21:55):
it's it's a tribal thing. It's it's it's it's he's
used to white, used to which is for me. It
helps me also understand that some of the the because
I've been all over the world and I don't think
people are all as racists like that. I think it's
an affinity issue. When a white person sees another white person,
(22:16):
there's a natural affinity to white. When you see black,
you're like, okay, black because because I've been to certain
countries where I'm on the only black person for our
like a week and so so like somewhere. We went
to Siberia once and I didn't see anybody until one
Nigerian girl. And the minute I saw her, I was
like who because it was like, oh, my kind, that's
(22:39):
my kind. He's here, he's here.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So there's a lot of that that's in play many
times when we get overly simplistic about race. In fact,
you got on the phone one time and said, I
don't want you to marry my daughter. I don't want
mixed kids, he told me, And she was like, so like, Dad,
you can't say that, you god fearing man. But the
(23:03):
challenge that had come to his home and he had
to decide can I love this guy who's different than me?
And can my faith the faith that i've because it's
one thing talking about and singing about it, but now
it was in your home, is this my brother? It
didn't matter that I was a Christian just like him
I had. I was a different color and he didn't
(23:24):
know what to do with that. Eventually, though, they reluctantly
and we said, you know, we're not gonna get married
until they are okay, which took another three years. My
whole country became okay, but her her family had a
problem until they they said, okay, I guess we got
married today. Of course, where where the the you know,
(23:47):
I'm the favorite, favorite son in law and we're so
Titan've given him and them five grandkids and it's just
a beautiful story.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I've heard you talk about the simple of faith, but
talk about simplicity of faith and wrapping your head around
faith intellectually.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
See when when we were brought when faith came to us,
it wasn't it didn't make sense. In fact, I remember
the first time I had to sit down, sit my
friends down, when they cornered me and said, explain why
you're happy? There's death all around? Why are you happy?
I said, okay, sit down, So I said, okay. In
two thousand years ago, God loved the world.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I lost them right away, Lee, because five of them
one was Muslim, when there was one was was a traditionalist.
That no, which which is he had all this talent
talents ban from from from the gods. So but he
was old, like ready to just kill me, you know,
because I had to expla I was going to explain
why I was happy, why God faith made sense. So
(24:53):
I said, two thousand and years ago, the Bible says,
what do you mean the Bible? I'm like, oh, I'm
in trouble. Yeah, this book it said it said God
sent his son. First of all, he said, God love
the When I said God love the world, they just like, ah, Dennis,
because gods don't love. In our culture, God is a mean.
(25:13):
They they restrict the rain, so you have to sacrifice
to them so rain can come and crops can grow,
and they take away your fertility. You have to so
that's that's what they used to So God and Love
was like, eh said, I said, wait, you want to
know why I'm happy? Sit down. So I carry the
story and says he sent, He sent his only son
(25:36):
to die for you and me. Ah, I lost them
again because they might try. In fact, one of them said,
what sort of God is that? What sort of is
a weak God? He said, because in my tribe, you
don't give your only son for nothing, because you only
your son is the future. How could God give his
son for people he doesn't even know? So I said,
(25:58):
just keep quiet.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now I'm noticing I'm in trouble already because the story
is gonna get more ridiculous. So I'm thinking, oh God,
And they told us Dennis, if you can't explain, we're
going to beat you. It was it was like where
they going to beat me up or whatever? So so
I said, I said, okay, he gave his son, his
son died. He said, ah huh. Then I said, then
it rose again.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I lost them again because because they were saying, oh,
how can he rise again? I said, okay, okay, he
rose again, Okay, and then I and then I said,
then I said, oh, I said, I'm going to be
in trouble. Said, I said, and and you know what,
he's he's here right now. And they're like, what do
you mean he's here? I thought, he said two thousand
and said, well, his presence is here. And I said, oh,
(26:43):
now keep quiet, and he wants to be part of
your life. And I said, if you if you believe
this ridiculous story, you can have what I have.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
If you believe this ridiculous story, you can have what
I have when we come back. This remarkable American story
continues here on our American stories and we continue with
(27:38):
our American stories and doctor Dennison Pebwe's story. Dennis, we
left off with you sharing your faith in Christ with
your African friends.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You ended with these.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Words, if you believe this ridiculous story, you can have
what I have.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
What happened next and they.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Looked at me like, and I said, you know, I
might as well go for it, said, you know what,
you know what I did to get this. I prayed
this prayer, pray with this prayer with me. And they
looked at me like, I said, pray, pray, ye, pray,
pray this prayer. Say said, God, thank you for sending
your son to die for me. I believe this, this amazing, crazy,
crazy story come into my life. And they looked at
(28:17):
me like and then Lee, I saw one of them
was shedding a tear. He had shed a tear, the
meanest one, but he was being macho. Of course he's like.
So the meeting ended and next day, yeah, you know
that story. I think it's real. I said it is, yeah,
(28:40):
because he said yeah, because I feel the piece, the
piece you talked about. I want to know, tell me
to church. And I was like, then I am, I am.
I'm like, whoa, It's it's powerful. It's not just a
nice little story. The story has power. And that there
was my beginning. And I've gone around the world that
(29:04):
I lived in England for a while, and I had
an option to live in Sweden and Australia at a
certain point, and I've been to eighty of them, eighty two.
In fact, there's no place like America. There's no place
there's no place like this. In fact, I have friends
who even are in leadership in those countries wanting to come.
(29:27):
I remember sitting with this Malaysian billionaire. He had actually
rented out the whole theater. One of the Transformers movies
was coming out. He says, I hate America, he said.
He said, but ah, it's good that America is good though.
We like America, and it's good to America. Is America.
Something was happening here to intellectual said, Americans, don't be stupid.
(29:49):
Why are you tearing your country country or part? Wait,
I hate that you're on top, but I won't kind
of like it that you're on top. It was it's
interesting to hear him say that. My friends call me,
especially with all the race things racial, you know, you know,
they call and say, oh, Dennis, praying for you. You
(30:11):
must be running for your life. You must be, you
must be. You're hunted, right, I'm like, what do you
mean hunted? Yeah, because they're hunting black people. I said no,
wah wait wait wait wait, what do you mean hunted?
I said no, no, no, no said, I said, no, no, no, no,
I'm okay. This is beautiful country. See see I don't
have and I and I talked. I've got tons of
black friends, of course, and sometimes they remember getting this
(30:35):
one award and some some some we got this. I
got this award and and my name was red last.
And my friend calls me, do you know what your
name was? Red last? Because you're black? I'm like, no,
because some s my last name is s alphabetically I'm
going to be I said no, No, I said, because say,
I don't have the the history that that some of
(30:58):
my friends do. But it's a but it's not an
experienced history. It's a it's a borrowed history. There's no
black man here who's who's ever been a slave in
her so so and there's no white man who's her
own slaves that is alived here today. But yet in
Africa we still own slaves, we still have slaves. Slavery
is not an American invention, and and and so and
(31:22):
so for me here this is a beautiful country and
and the freedoms. When I'm stopped by the police, yes,
I sometimes I walk into the grocery, into a jury
store with my wife. She's white. Of course, sometimes they
look at her more in they think she's the one
going to buy and and maybe I shouldn't be there.
I've had that, but I don't go like me. So
(31:45):
so she goes and picks this stone, and she likes
to do this, she says, and because they don't think
that we arrived together. And she will say, honey, should
I get this one? Then all of a sudden they
look at me like, oh, he's paying. But I don't
go like, yeah, you see it's me. No, I'm like
I understand because based on the conditioning this this again exposure.
(32:11):
So so is this is this a racist country? Absolutely not.
Is there historic racism yes, of course the books, yes,
when a cop stops me, I'm not thinking racism. I'm like, oh,
I probably fit a profile, a profile of and then
when it comes and it's nervous around me, it's because
(32:33):
there's numbers that show that people like me could do more.
He doesn't know, so I don't go like I I I, well,
here's my because I want to get home. I want
to go home, down, go home. So so here's my
license's Are you okay, ELVISA? Are you doing officer? I'm
pleasant and I have never had problems. I drive a
(32:54):
nicer car, and so if I'm watched, I understand. I
don't go into because I have lived an experience that
is far worse. And so I appreciate the wealth of America.
I see what this country. There is no country like this, Lee,
I know that for a fact, there's no country that
(33:16):
offers these unsurpassed, unmatched freedoms and opportunities like this country does.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And let's talk last about what you hope and pray
for America and some of the things you worry about
for the country that adopted you and then you call home.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I worry about the loss of some of the things
that made this country amazing. In fact, when we talk
with my in laws, my Ingrid's parents are still alive
and they're from Romania, and they run away from that.
So we could we talk almost commiserating. You're like, oh
(33:57):
my godness, all this is how because they he says,
He says, they said, Dennis, I remember when they told us,
because it's Romani Romania. I remember when they first said,
they came to my mother. My father in law said,
they came to my mom and they said, you have
the shop. We have to we have to get we
have the government has to take over your shop because
(34:18):
it's the biggest and we need to make sure this
equal distribution of wealth. So they took it. He said,
I remember that. I remember when they offered us free
health care. We were so excited. He said, but that
created this this craziness where few people had the power
(34:39):
and and and and they said and and then and
so we're terrifyingly listen to some of the news, and
we watched the news, and we're like, this is what
we run away from. We run away from. We fled
our countries to come here to experience certain freedoms which
are fleeting. We're forgetting that. The I worry about God,
(35:03):
even God, the place for God, the place because if
there's no absolute truth seeing my tribe. I've written a
book called Timeless Truths and and and Africa the richest
proverb richest cultures were preserved by these sayings, these proverbs,
and and and it's at the fireplaces that where we
learned what a man does, a woman does. Men they care,
(35:28):
they protect, they treat their wives. And we learn these things.
That's that's lost. It's getting lost here because there's everything
is subjective. I want to be this kind of man.
I don't want to work, really, yeah, because I don't
want to work. Sorry. So so so that that is
(35:50):
now becoming mainstreamed. I've got a sad who's in college.
He just finished. I call it college actually, And my
daughter said that that is the things we're learning that
America is not great, that our history is you know,
every country has history, has every country like slavery has
been in every culture. African's own slaves, Like I said, so, yes,
(36:14):
we have a path that's gone here, but there's no
country two hundred years. Look what America has done in
two hundred years. It's an incredible experiment. So we worry
that we're borrowing too much of we're idealizing what other
countries have and we're losing what's made as great. There's
no country as benevolent as this. We're good people here.
(36:38):
There is no country quite like this. And I don't
see any on the horizon because because it's getting crazier
out there. I think right now the values that made us,
Oh yeah, if there's ever been a time for us
to trumpet these values, it's now America, the Free, the brave,
Home of the brave and the free. Oujah.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And you've been listening to doctor Dennis and Pebue And
what a storyteller, and what a story to tell, and
what a perspective to see America the lens with which
he views this country as an immigrant from some place
like Uganda, or his bride coming from a communist bloc
country and having to deal with the false promises of
(37:24):
the regime that took over her country. And for those
who have faith, Oh my goodness, Doctor Dennis in the
end was happy in Uganda. In Uganda, and by the way,
to learn more about doctor Dennis, who now has PhDs,
has co founded an international college in Chicago, which quickly
(37:46):
grew to twenty two extension campuses in eight countries, and
he's also founded a global missionary organization and started one
of the largest and fastest growing fully accredited ministry training
institutions in the world. And this is what he's managed
to do with his life in this country. Doctor Dennis
in Pebwe's story here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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