July 29, 2025 • 30 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, what did the Founding Fathers find in the ruins of Greece and Rome? A vision for how a free people might govern themselves. From Athens’ early experiments in democracy to the Roman Republic’s lessons in checks and balances, Dr. Kenneth Calvert of Hillsdale College unpacks how classical political thought shaped the government we know today.
Support the show (https://www.ouramericanstories.com/donate)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And we returned to our American stories. Up next, the
story of how the founders of America drew on inspiration
from the classical world to shape a new country, starting
with the colonies and the emphasis they put on education.
Here to tell the story is doctor Kenneth Calvert, professor
of history at Hillsdale College. Let's get into the story.
(00:33):
Take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Ken Baked into the bread that are the colonies, the
English colonies are these ideas of virtue and of the
nature of citizenship. In the eighteenth century, in particular, following
upon the Enlightenment, you have in England very much an
(00:55):
emphasis upon this notion of the educated, wealth, educated leader,
well educated governors, and more importantly, particularly in the states
like Massachusetts and elsewhere, well educated citizens. This is going
to become more and more part of the culture throughout
(01:16):
the colonies, this notion of the well educated citizen. When
you look at the colonies, you have to start with Virginia,
and what you see in Virginia is already they are
very much using the sources that everybody's going to use,
and that is the classical world, the Greek and Roman world,
(01:37):
and also the Biblical ancient past, where education really is
most profound in the colony of Virginia really is in
the leadership and the upper level upper class, the landowners
of Virginia. It's more rooted in England and English society.
(01:58):
English leadership, they don't see this as much among the
small landowners, and certainly they don't allow most of the
slaves to be educated. Where the Virginia elite get their
source of education really is in the classical world, not
only Aristotle and the philosophy of Aristotle, but you know,
(02:19):
with the study of euclid and geometry. This is where
they are rooted. They have a very strong understanding of
the virtues, particularly the virtues of the Greek and Roman world,
but also the virtues of scripture, the theological virtues faith, hope,
and love. These things are very much part of the
(02:41):
culture of Virginia. It's not commonly understood that the Puritans
were among the best educated of all the colonials. Many
of their leading men studied at Cambridge University in England.
Harvard University, the first university in the English College, was
located in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and in fact Harvard was meant
(03:05):
to be a place where men would be trained to
be pastors, to be ministers, to be great orators, expositors
of scripture. Now what were they reading? They were certainly
reading scripture. And of course the Puritans are famous for
really establishing a culture, establishing a society, a government that
(03:26):
was to be rooted in scripture, the Old Testament, and
the Old Testament. Guidelines for government and law, the capital
punishments Massachusetts and in New England were all rooted in
the Old Testament. All there. But they also understood, of
course understood themselves to be members of Christ's Kingdom of Heaven,
(03:48):
and they were an expression of that kingdom. And what
they wanted to do was to be that city on
a hill, as George Woodfield put it, to be that
community or set of communities that best expressed Biblical values.
They were the city on the hill, and indeed that
was very much a part of what they wanted to be,
(04:08):
was to be a great representation of what a Christian
community look like for the Christians in England, but also
for Christians around the world. Now, the Puritans were also
it's very important to understand, interested in the Greek and
Roman classical world, just as the people in Virginia were.
These are important models for them. You do have some
(04:33):
outliers within the colonies. In Pennsylvania, for instance, the education
system and the approach to education was decidedly classical and Biblical.
You have that in urban centers like in Philadelphia. But
you have to understand too that the Quakers who founded
the colony of Pennsylvania had a very very strong commitment
(04:57):
to what they would consider to be practical work and
what is often called the illiberal arts or the arts
of the craftsmen, of the tradesmen of the farmer. The
Quakers were rooted in the classical world, Greco Roman world,
and the Biblical world, but they also is part of
their education, believed very much in the training of young
(05:21):
people in the trades, in farming, etc. Not that that
wasn't part of the Puritans or wasn't part of those
in Virginia, but among the Quakers and those in Pennsylvania,
much much more emphasized. Now, what are some of the ideals,
what are some of the virtues that they're most interested in?
(05:41):
Beginning with the land, there's a deep regard for farming,
for agriculture, and forgetting your hands dirty and being part
of the land. That is very much a part of
everybody's perspective. You find this among the founders like George Washington,
John Adams very much a farmer, Thomas Jefferson having a
(06:02):
large plantation, and you find that in the Greco Roman world,
in the Greco Roman literature, you also find that in
scripture the man casting the seed as a story symbolizing
the establishment of faith. They're using this in their own
ways in their own particular communities. We find in some
(06:26):
of these places that there is a tension that emerges
from this, because, for instance, those who are farmers, those
who are agrarians in the American context kind of take
the side of the person like Hesiod or Cato the elder.
But then there's also throughout the colonies a great deal
(06:46):
of shipping and overseas business and merchant activity, which is
often seen in agrarian societies in the ancient world as
being almost akin to prostitution, as kind of not a
great way to earn your pay, it's too easy, all
the money that's coming in with his traded merchant activity.
Among the merchants, there is this notion too that emerges
(07:10):
of citizenship, of good hard work, of earning your pay,
of becoming part of this American culture that puts an
emphasis upon these kinds of ideals. Perhaps one who is
best expressing this is Benjamin Franklin, who will talk a
(07:30):
great deal about the joys and the good practices of business,
of merchant activity, and what earning money and creating wealth
can mean for a person and a community. Beyond that
are also the political ideas that we find in classical world,
(07:54):
in the classical culture, beginning with the idea among the
Israelites among the Hebrews that you live without a king,
that God is your king, and then they surrender that
whole idea in first Samuel eight and establish themselves a king.
That idea of kingship or monarchy being held with a
(08:18):
kind of suspicion is certainly present in the colonies. They
are all under the King of England, and they're all
under the Parliament. But there is still this notion, which
is an English notion but also now an American English notion,
that human government has its limits, and human government should
(08:40):
be kept in some sort of not suspicion, but certainly
within boundaries. That there is a higher power, that is God.
These are a lot of the foundations through it all
the idea of virtue, of honesty, of telling the truth,
of being a it's citizen, a good man. All of
(09:02):
these things are part of the lessons that they're learning
from particular and specific texts, and really lays the foundation
for American society, American culture, and ultimately for the American Revolution.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
And you're listening to doctor Kenneth Calvern tell the story
of the connection between the founding of America and the
classical world that, of course is Greco Roman, and of
course the Bible, the foundations of American civilization and Western civilization.
Actually the underlying feature, the underlying dimension, of course, is character,
(09:37):
and it is virtue, and including the fact that we
learn early here in the stories at Harvard, our great
universities were once divinity schools and training up pastors, and
now well, things are so much different. When we continue
the story of the connection between the founding of America
and the classical world here on our American stories, and
(10:10):
we returned to our American stories and to doctor Kenneth Calvert,
let's pick up where we last left off on how
the classical world related to the founding of America.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Here's ken as things were becoming more and more difficult
and really from the founder's perspective, it was George the
Third and Parliament who were changing the rules of the game.
They were becoming more intrusive in American life, and were
becoming more intrusive in the development of dividing up the
(10:43):
colonies as royal provinces and becoming more intrusive in everyday
life for the colonies. This was not something that the
colonies were very happy about, particularly because the government was
not following its own rules. So that is the rule
that the colonies, the colonials as Englishmen, have the right
(11:04):
to represent themselves to the King and to the Parliament
when taxes are created, when laws are passed, and so
this idea of taxation without representation, this whole notion of
representation is important. In none of the counties of England
would they have put up with what the government was
asking the Americans to put up with, and so the
(11:27):
Americans began to basically fight back. It's important to understand
that they had a high degree of respect for the
rule of law. There is a description in Thucidities of
a revolution, a revolution on an island called Corsirah, and
(11:47):
in the Revolution of Corsira Throucidities talks about a context
in which a revolution is started by Athens against the Corsiren's'
ruling class, against the allies of Corinth, and this revolution
dissolves into absolute anarchy, chaos, bloodshed. And so the Founders
(12:10):
when they're talking about revolution, what they want to do
is to avoid that kind of chaotic, bloody revolution that
is going to bring just nothing but suffering. And this
is where the American Revolution takes on a tone that
is very, very different from the French Revolution that's going
to happen in the late eighteenth century, that the Bolshevik
(12:34):
Revolution in the twentieth century, the Maoist Revolution in the
twentieth century. Those revolutions include a great deal of bloodshed
and chaos. The Founders understood from reading their classical literature,
particularly through Cynities, that this idea of a revolution is
one that has to be taken very very carefully, because
(12:55):
it can easily devolve into just absolute chaos anarchy. You
find this in instances like, for instance, when John Adams
defends the soldiers who shot the Americans at the Boston Massacre.
Why is he doing that? He's doing that because the
rule of law must be maintained England might be abusing
(13:18):
the American rights. The Americans are not going to do that.
The Americans are going to be more true to the
traditions of England and of what they had learned from
the Greco Roman world. The Roman Republic ended to a
great extent. You find this in Livy, and you find
(13:41):
in the descriptions of the end of the Roman Republic
that it was really a revolutionary dissolution of the republic
into chaos and bloodshed. That's what ended the Roman Republic.
And so the American founders looked to models in the
Greco Roman world world to help them establish the philosophy
(14:04):
and to a great extent, the theology of the American Revolution,
of this throwing off of George the Third and of Parliament.
You know, we have to remember on the theological side.
You know, there's a great argument going on here as
to whether or not rebellion against established authority was godly.
(14:28):
You look at Romans eleven, or you look at the
writing of Saint Peter, and there is this idea that
you honor the government because God has established the government.
There were those who were loyalists who preached that to
overthrow the government was a bad thing, right, it was ungodly.
But then those who were in favor of the revolution
(14:49):
also drew upon the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament,
that Daniel opposes the rule, the bad rule of bad
law from a bad king Nebuchatenzar, and is righteous for that.
And so this argument has to go on among the
colonials as well. And what the leaders of the colonies
want to do is to give a good, reasonable, rational
(15:13):
argument on behalf of this revolution. Now, one place we
find this is in the Declaration of Independence. Now, the
Declaration of Independence, its most famous phrase is that all
men are created equal and endowed by their creator with
certain unalienable rights, among them being life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness. Why are they talking about philosophy, Why
(15:37):
are they talking about this idea of rights. Well, what
they're wanting to show before they talk about the abuses
of king and parliament. What they want to show is
that there is good rational reason to seek independence from England,
and that England, by breaking the rules, which they're about
(15:58):
to show how the rules are broke. By breaking the rules,
has really upset not only an idea of a social contract,
that we might talk about, but also just reasonable government,
rational government. I want to focus just for a moment
on that word happiness. That word happiness is very important.
It's not some emotional idea. The word happiness is inserted there.
(16:22):
It's an extension of Aristotelian thought, of Epicurean thought, the
idea that happiness is not an emotional concept. It is
a philosophical idea, and it is the seeking of the
highest good and virtue. It is the seeking of excellence.
And what they're saying in using this word happiness is
(16:45):
that if a government does not promote happiness among its
citizens in a way that helps them to become the
best that they can be, to seek that excellence, if
that government is not promote that, but is standing in
the way of that, and that is a bad government.
And so the Declaration of Independence itself is rooted in
(17:08):
Greek philosophical ideas Roman philosophical ideas, as it's heading towards
a discussion of the various specific accent that the government
has promoted and done in order to bring about this revolution.
Another part of the declaration is that it talks about
God as a creator and God giving these rights. So
(17:30):
this notion that God has given rights, not the government.
And this is a throwback decidedly rooted in biblical ideas
that there is a nature to human being, a worthiness
of human beings that is rooted in scripture in the Bible.
And then they want to affirm that. And of course
(17:52):
the final statements within the Declaration of Independence really focus
on this idea that they're going to stand for one
another and support one another through God's providence. At each
one of these men signs the Declaration of Independence, which
frankly in and of itself is a suicide pact because
(18:15):
if they lose, they are going to all die, especially Washington,
He'll be drawn and quartered.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And you've been listening to doctor Kenneth Calvert tell the
story of our founding in the way that well, we
haven't told it before, through our values, through classical education,
through who we were as people, what we stood for,
what we cared about. That story about the Boston massacretrial.
John Adams risked everything to defend those red coats. He
(18:43):
was not a rich man. He had a burgeoning law practice,
it had just started, and boy, folks just wanted to
string those red coats up. But there was John Adams
saying we're different. We want to live up to the
ideals that the British are not living up to rule
a law. These guys deserve trial. He was able to
acquit a bunch of them because they were defending themselves
(19:04):
from mobs. And then those that shot men in the
back roll they were found guilty of manslaughter, not premeditated murder.
The story of the founding of our country and its
connection to the classical world and of course the Biblical world,
that story continues here on our American stories, and we
(19:38):
returned to our American stories, and the final piece of
the story of the founding of the United States as
it relates to the classical world is told by Hillsdale
Professor of History, doctor Kenneth Calvert. Let's pick up when
we last left off.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
They all very much respected a man named Cato the Younger.
This is the adopted great grandson of Cato the Elder,
who they also loved as an agrarian. But here Kato
the Younger. Cato the Younger stood up to Julius Caesar,
who was a tyrant, Julius Caesar who helped to end
(20:14):
the republic. None of the founding fathers understood Julius Caesar
to be a good guy. Cato the Younger was an
old school Republican small r and what Cato the Younger
did was to not only fight against Julius Caesar politically,
but also militarily. When the civil wars broke out between
(20:36):
Caesar and the Senate, with Poppy involved in all of that,
Kato the Younger did everything in his abilities to try
and stop Julius Caesar. But Julius Caesar ultimately cornered Cato
the Younger at Utica in North Africa and defeated his
military forces. And so Kato the Younger he knew that
(20:59):
Julius Caesar was going to try to use him as
a pawn in what happened at the end of these
civil wars, and so Cato the Younger commits suicide. Now,
when Julius Caesar had his triumphal march through Rome, he
put on display on these floats, as they did during triumphs,
(21:21):
all of his victories, and in one of them he
showed his conquest over Cato the Younger. Now, the people
of Rome loved Julius Caesar, but when it came to
his display of Cato the Younger as being defeated. That's
when Julius Caesar began to lose Rome, began to lose
(21:41):
the crowd. Because here's a man who stood up for
the principles of the republic and stood up for what
was good in the Roman Republic. And this is why
our founding fathers loved Cato the Younger. They loved him
because he was willing to risk everything for the principles
of virtue and of republicanism. He was willing to oppose
(22:06):
Julius Caesar to the very end and even commit suicide
rather than to give in to Julius Caesar. Now, in
seventeen twelve, there was a play written about Cato the Younger.
It was titled Cato a Tragedy, written by Joseph Addison.
(22:29):
And what you have here in this play is a
display of what great Roman virtue was all about in
the minds of eighteenth century englishmen. All of the American
founders had read it, and they all loved Cato for
his principled stand against tyranny and his willingness to commit
(22:52):
suicide in the face of it. And so what you
have here is the Founding fathers actually memoryzing many lines
in this play. One of the most famous moments in
which this was used is in Nathan Hale's execution at
the hands of the British Nathan Hale the spy on
(23:13):
Long Island. He was caught and he was hung, and
he said, I regret that I have but one life
to give for my country. Those are the last words
of Cato the Younger in the play by Joseph Addison
Cato the Tragedy. And so these ideas, these biblical and
(23:33):
classical ideas very much apart of the revolution and of
what they want to do there and why the revolution
is not the bloody mess that other revolutions are going
to be. They wanted to make it virtuous, law abiding,
virtuous not only in a classical sense, but also in
a biblical sense, to make sure that they honor God.
(23:56):
All of this is part of the American Revolution. So
the final part of this, as the founders look back
to the classical and biblical world, I want to just
really talk about some of the ideals and some of
the people, some of the models that they're looking to.
(24:17):
For instance, our notion of a government that includes the legislative,
the executive, and the judicial kind of a balance of
powers there that the founders produce and creating this new government,
that creating this constitution. This is not really something that
(24:38):
they made up off the top of their head. You
find this in Athenian Democracy, you find this expressed in
Aristotle's writings on the Politics. You see that our founders
have been reading a good dose of Aristotle. I want
to point out, though, the very interesting description that the
(24:59):
Greek history orian Polybius gives about the Roman Republic. Now,
whether or not he's entirely correct, there is a very
interesting approach that he takes to describing the Roman Republic
that you can definitely see influencing the American founders. And
what he does. He talks about the three parts of
(25:20):
the Roman Republic, the consuls, which he equates to a
kind of monarchy, the senate, which he equates to a
kind of aristocracy, and then the people, who are the
democratic aspect of the Roman government. And all of these pieces,
according to Polybius, work in a kind of balance of
(25:41):
powers to make the government work. And indeed it was
a brilliant government, the Roman Republic. Now, the Romans understood
and the Greeks understood that democracy is inherently what chaotic
and emotional, so it needs to be balanced by a
more wise and certain and established institution like the Senate.
(26:03):
And so that is what the Romans shoot for. And
when you look at our own government, the American government,
that's exactly what the Founders are shooting for. You know,
you have in the House of Representatives and representatives who
serve for two years a constant kind of chaotic, emotional
expression of the people, and it's constantly overturning, and there
(26:26):
are four hundred plus of them, and they're always producing
all kinds of new legislation. And it's for the Senate,
and senators sit for six years. Who are there more
long term there to be more considered, more wise, more judicious,
more rational, to balance out that democratic aspect that is
(26:48):
so noisy, but both sides are expressed. And where do
the Founders get that, Well from studying the Roman Republic.
The Roman Republic, in fact, was something that they looked
to instantly, not without some skepticism, because there are things
they didn't like. Jefferson did not like the aristocratic element
(27:08):
of the Roman Senate and Roman Republicanism that way, and
so he wanted really an aristocracy of merit not an
aristocracy by birth, and so there were things they didn't
like about the Roman Republic, but they did look to
the Republic for this. And in fact, the presidency of
the United States has certain powers for foreign affairs, certain
(27:29):
powers for the military. The presidency also has tribunition power.
He has the ability to veto legislation, which is what
tribunes did in the Roman Republic. He could say veto
or I forbid it. And so you have kind of
baked into this form of government, the American Constitution an
(27:52):
expression of all of these balances that you find Greek
understanding and conversation of the best form of government and
in the publican Roman Republican form of government. So this
is very much what our founders are looking to. Another
thing that they're looking to as well, as religious freedom,
is absolutely crucial that they create this notion that there
(28:13):
would be no state church because of how much the
state controlled religion, whether in the Greek world or in
the Roman world, or in the medieval world, the medieval
Germanic kings controlling the church. You have Henry the Eighth
and the Church of England also in their minds, and
(28:33):
this idea that religion should be freely expressed, very much
a part of kind of the early Christian ideal of
religious expression, also very much baked into this government and
this political atmosphere that was being created. And so this
is the classical and to a great extent, the biblical
foundations of who we are as Americans and her colonies
(28:57):
and the revolution and in our democratic republic.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And a terrific job by the production, editing and storytelling
by Megan Pitcock, and she's a product of Hillsdale College.
Also a product of Hillsdale College is our storyteller, doctor
Kenneth Calvert, and he teaches history at the college. And
what a story he's told us about the foundations of
our country, the founding ideals, the founding principles and purposes,
(29:23):
and one of them was to avoid the chaos the
traditional revolutions well left behind and to leave something different,
something better, And that this was not done for anarchy's
sake or for rebellion's sake, but to make the country
closer to and more representative of the ideals of a
virtuous society, many of it coming from England itself, England
(29:47):
itself being the source of so much. But as we
learned ancient Rome and more looking for the best answers
that would produce a good and virtuous society, and with
God at the center, and this whole idea of kingship
and gods. And of course we heard a little bit
about Daniel from the Bible. The story of America, the
story of classical education and the classics, and how it
(30:12):
related to our founding. Here on our American stories,
And we returned to our American stories. Up next, the
story of how the founders of America drew on inspiration
from the classical world to shape a new country, starting
with the colonies and the emphasis they put on education.
Here to tell the story is doctor Kenneth Calvert, professor
of history at Hillsdale College. Let's get into the story.
(00:33):
Take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Ken Baked into the bread that are the colonies, the
English colonies are these ideas of virtue and of the
nature of citizenship. In the eighteenth century, in particular, following
upon the Enlightenment, you have in England very much an
(00:55):
emphasis upon this notion of the educated, wealth, educated leader,
well educated governors, and more importantly, particularly in the states
like Massachusetts and elsewhere, well educated citizens. This is going
to become more and more part of the culture throughout
(01:16):
the colonies, this notion of the well educated citizen. When
you look at the colonies, you have to start with Virginia,
and what you see in Virginia is already they are
very much using the sources that everybody's going to use,
and that is the classical world, the Greek and Roman world,
(01:37):
and also the Biblical ancient past, where education really is
most profound in the colony of Virginia really is in
the leadership and the upper level upper class, the landowners
of Virginia. It's more rooted in England and English society.
(01:58):
English leadership, they don't see this as much among the
small landowners, and certainly they don't allow most of the
slaves to be educated. Where the Virginia elite get their
source of education really is in the classical world, not
only Aristotle and the philosophy of Aristotle, but you know,
(02:19):
with the study of euclid and geometry. This is where
they are rooted. They have a very strong understanding of
the virtues, particularly the virtues of the Greek and Roman world,
but also the virtues of scripture, the theological virtues faith, hope,
and love. These things are very much part of the
(02:41):
culture of Virginia. It's not commonly understood that the Puritans
were among the best educated of all the colonials. Many
of their leading men studied at Cambridge University in England.
Harvard University, the first university in the English College, was
located in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and in fact Harvard was meant
(03:05):
to be a place where men would be trained to
be pastors, to be ministers, to be great orators, expositors
of scripture. Now what were they reading? They were certainly
reading scripture. And of course the Puritans are famous for
really establishing a culture, establishing a society, a government that
(03:26):
was to be rooted in scripture, the Old Testament, and
the Old Testament. Guidelines for government and law, the capital
punishments Massachusetts and in New England were all rooted in
the Old Testament. All there. But they also understood, of
course understood themselves to be members of Christ's Kingdom of Heaven,
(03:48):
and they were an expression of that kingdom. And what
they wanted to do was to be that city on
a hill, as George Woodfield put it, to be that
community or set of communities that best expressed Biblical values.
They were the city on the hill, and indeed that
was very much a part of what they wanted to be,
(04:08):
was to be a great representation of what a Christian
community look like for the Christians in England, but also
for Christians around the world. Now, the Puritans were also
it's very important to understand, interested in the Greek and
Roman classical world, just as the people in Virginia were.
These are important models for them. You do have some
(04:33):
outliers within the colonies. In Pennsylvania, for instance, the education
system and the approach to education was decidedly classical and Biblical.
You have that in urban centers like in Philadelphia. But
you have to understand too that the Quakers who founded
the colony of Pennsylvania had a very very strong commitment
(04:57):
to what they would consider to be practical work and
what is often called the illiberal arts or the arts
of the craftsmen, of the tradesmen of the farmer. The
Quakers were rooted in the classical world, Greco Roman world,
and the Biblical world, but they also is part of
their education, believed very much in the training of young
(05:21):
people in the trades, in farming, etc. Not that that
wasn't part of the Puritans or wasn't part of those
in Virginia, but among the Quakers and those in Pennsylvania,
much much more emphasized. Now, what are some of the ideals,
what are some of the virtues that they're most interested in?
(05:41):
Beginning with the land, there's a deep regard for farming,
for agriculture, and forgetting your hands dirty and being part
of the land. That is very much a part of
everybody's perspective. You find this among the founders like George Washington,
John Adams very much a farmer, Thomas Jefferson having a
(06:02):
large plantation, and you find that in the Greco Roman world,
in the Greco Roman literature, you also find that in
scripture the man casting the seed as a story symbolizing
the establishment of faith. They're using this in their own
ways in their own particular communities. We find in some
(06:26):
of these places that there is a tension that emerges
from this, because, for instance, those who are farmers, those
who are agrarians in the American context kind of take
the side of the person like Hesiod or Cato the elder.
But then there's also throughout the colonies a great deal
(06:46):
of shipping and overseas business and merchant activity, which is
often seen in agrarian societies in the ancient world as
being almost akin to prostitution, as kind of not a
great way to earn your pay, it's too easy, all
the money that's coming in with his traded merchant activity.
Among the merchants, there is this notion too that emerges
(07:10):
of citizenship, of good hard work, of earning your pay,
of becoming part of this American culture that puts an
emphasis upon these kinds of ideals. Perhaps one who is
best expressing this is Benjamin Franklin, who will talk a
(07:30):
great deal about the joys and the good practices of business,
of merchant activity, and what earning money and creating wealth
can mean for a person and a community. Beyond that
are also the political ideas that we find in classical world,
(07:54):
in the classical culture, beginning with the idea among the
Israelites among the Hebrews that you live without a king,
that God is your king, and then they surrender that
whole idea in first Samuel eight and establish themselves a king.
That idea of kingship or monarchy being held with a
(08:18):
kind of suspicion is certainly present in the colonies. They
are all under the King of England, and they're all
under the Parliament. But there is still this notion, which
is an English notion but also now an American English notion,
that human government has its limits, and human government should
(08:40):
be kept in some sort of not suspicion, but certainly
within boundaries. That there is a higher power, that is God.
These are a lot of the foundations through it all
the idea of virtue, of honesty, of telling the truth,
of being a it's citizen, a good man. All of
(09:02):
these things are part of the lessons that they're learning
from particular and specific texts, and really lays the foundation
for American society, American culture, and ultimately for the American Revolution.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
And you're listening to doctor Kenneth Calvern tell the story
of the connection between the founding of America and the
classical world that, of course is Greco Roman, and of
course the Bible, the foundations of American civilization and Western civilization.
Actually the underlying feature, the underlying dimension, of course, is character,
(09:37):
and it is virtue, and including the fact that we
learn early here in the stories at Harvard, our great
universities were once divinity schools and training up pastors, and
now well, things are so much different. When we continue
the story of the connection between the founding of America
and the classical world here on our American stories, and
(10:10):
we returned to our American stories and to doctor Kenneth Calvert,
let's pick up where we last left off on how
the classical world related to the founding of America.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Here's ken as things were becoming more and more difficult
and really from the founder's perspective, it was George the
Third and Parliament who were changing the rules of the game.
They were becoming more intrusive in American life, and were
becoming more intrusive in the development of dividing up the
(10:43):
colonies as royal provinces and becoming more intrusive in everyday
life for the colonies. This was not something that the
colonies were very happy about, particularly because the government was
not following its own rules. So that is the rule
that the colonies, the colonials as Englishmen, have the right
(11:04):
to represent themselves to the King and to the Parliament
when taxes are created, when laws are passed, and so
this idea of taxation without representation, this whole notion of
representation is important. In none of the counties of England
would they have put up with what the government was
asking the Americans to put up with, and so the
(11:27):
Americans began to basically fight back. It's important to understand
that they had a high degree of respect for the
rule of law. There is a description in Thucidities of
a revolution, a revolution on an island called Corsirah, and
(11:47):
in the Revolution of Corsira Throucidities talks about a context
in which a revolution is started by Athens against the Corsiren's'
ruling class, against the allies of Corinth, and this revolution
dissolves into absolute anarchy, chaos, bloodshed. And so the Founders
(12:10):
when they're talking about revolution, what they want to do
is to avoid that kind of chaotic, bloody revolution that
is going to bring just nothing but suffering. And this
is where the American Revolution takes on a tone that
is very, very different from the French Revolution that's going
to happen in the late eighteenth century, that the Bolshevik
(12:34):
Revolution in the twentieth century, the Maoist Revolution in the
twentieth century. Those revolutions include a great deal of bloodshed
and chaos. The Founders understood from reading their classical literature,
particularly through Cynities, that this idea of a revolution is
one that has to be taken very very carefully, because
(12:55):
it can easily devolve into just absolute chaos anarchy. You
find this in instances like, for instance, when John Adams
defends the soldiers who shot the Americans at the Boston Massacre.
Why is he doing that? He's doing that because the
rule of law must be maintained England might be abusing
(13:18):
the American rights. The Americans are not going to do that.
The Americans are going to be more true to the
traditions of England and of what they had learned from
the Greco Roman world. The Roman Republic ended to a
great extent. You find this in Livy, and you find
(13:41):
in the descriptions of the end of the Roman Republic
that it was really a revolutionary dissolution of the republic
into chaos and bloodshed. That's what ended the Roman Republic.
And so the American founders looked to models in the
Greco Roman world world to help them establish the philosophy
(14:04):
and to a great extent, the theology of the American Revolution,
of this throwing off of George the Third and of Parliament.
You know, we have to remember on the theological side.
You know, there's a great argument going on here as
to whether or not rebellion against established authority was godly.
(14:28):
You look at Romans eleven, or you look at the
writing of Saint Peter, and there is this idea that
you honor the government because God has established the government.
There were those who were loyalists who preached that to
overthrow the government was a bad thing, right, it was ungodly.
But then those who were in favor of the revolution
(14:49):
also drew upon the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament,
that Daniel opposes the rule, the bad rule of bad
law from a bad king Nebuchatenzar, and is righteous for that.
And so this argument has to go on among the
colonials as well. And what the leaders of the colonies
want to do is to give a good, reasonable, rational
(15:13):
argument on behalf of this revolution. Now, one place we
find this is in the Declaration of Independence. Now, the
Declaration of Independence, its most famous phrase is that all
men are created equal and endowed by their creator with
certain unalienable rights, among them being life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness. Why are they talking about philosophy, Why
(15:37):
are they talking about this idea of rights. Well, what
they're wanting to show before they talk about the abuses
of king and parliament. What they want to show is
that there is good rational reason to seek independence from England,
and that England, by breaking the rules, which they're about
(15:58):
to show how the rules are broke. By breaking the rules,
has really upset not only an idea of a social contract,
that we might talk about, but also just reasonable government,
rational government. I want to focus just for a moment
on that word happiness. That word happiness is very important.
It's not some emotional idea. The word happiness is inserted there.
(16:22):
It's an extension of Aristotelian thought, of Epicurean thought, the
idea that happiness is not an emotional concept. It is
a philosophical idea, and it is the seeking of the
highest good and virtue. It is the seeking of excellence.
And what they're saying in using this word happiness is
(16:45):
that if a government does not promote happiness among its
citizens in a way that helps them to become the
best that they can be, to seek that excellence, if
that government is not promote that, but is standing in
the way of that, and that is a bad government.
And so the Declaration of Independence itself is rooted in
(17:08):
Greek philosophical ideas Roman philosophical ideas, as it's heading towards
a discussion of the various specific accent that the government
has promoted and done in order to bring about this revolution.
Another part of the declaration is that it talks about
God as a creator and God giving these rights. So
(17:30):
this notion that God has given rights, not the government.
And this is a throwback decidedly rooted in biblical ideas
that there is a nature to human being, a worthiness
of human beings that is rooted in scripture in the Bible.
And then they want to affirm that. And of course
(17:52):
the final statements within the Declaration of Independence really focus
on this idea that they're going to stand for one
another and support one another through God's providence. At each
one of these men signs the Declaration of Independence, which
frankly in and of itself is a suicide pact because
(18:15):
if they lose, they are going to all die, especially Washington,
He'll be drawn and quartered.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And you've been listening to doctor Kenneth Calvert tell the
story of our founding in the way that well, we
haven't told it before, through our values, through classical education,
through who we were as people, what we stood for,
what we cared about. That story about the Boston massacretrial.
John Adams risked everything to defend those red coats. He
(18:43):
was not a rich man. He had a burgeoning law practice,
it had just started, and boy, folks just wanted to
string those red coats up. But there was John Adams
saying we're different. We want to live up to the
ideals that the British are not living up to rule
a law. These guys deserve trial. He was able to
acquit a bunch of them because they were defending themselves
(19:04):
from mobs. And then those that shot men in the
back roll they were found guilty of manslaughter, not premeditated murder.
The story of the founding of our country and its
connection to the classical world and of course the Biblical world,
that story continues here on our American stories, and we
(19:38):
returned to our American stories, and the final piece of
the story of the founding of the United States as
it relates to the classical world is told by Hillsdale
Professor of History, doctor Kenneth Calvert. Let's pick up when
we last left off.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
They all very much respected a man named Cato the Younger.
This is the adopted great grandson of Cato the Elder,
who they also loved as an agrarian. But here Kato
the Younger. Cato the Younger stood up to Julius Caesar,
who was a tyrant, Julius Caesar who helped to end
(20:14):
the republic. None of the founding fathers understood Julius Caesar
to be a good guy. Cato the Younger was an
old school Republican small r and what Cato the Younger
did was to not only fight against Julius Caesar politically,
but also militarily. When the civil wars broke out between
(20:36):
Caesar and the Senate, with Poppy involved in all of that,
Kato the Younger did everything in his abilities to try
and stop Julius Caesar. But Julius Caesar ultimately cornered Cato
the Younger at Utica in North Africa and defeated his
military forces. And so Kato the Younger he knew that
(20:59):
Julius Caesar was going to try to use him as
a pawn in what happened at the end of these
civil wars, and so Cato the Younger commits suicide. Now,
when Julius Caesar had his triumphal march through Rome, he
put on display on these floats, as they did during triumphs,
(21:21):
all of his victories, and in one of them he
showed his conquest over Cato the Younger. Now, the people
of Rome loved Julius Caesar, but when it came to
his display of Cato the Younger as being defeated. That's
when Julius Caesar began to lose Rome, began to lose
(21:41):
the crowd. Because here's a man who stood up for
the principles of the republic and stood up for what
was good in the Roman Republic. And this is why
our founding fathers loved Cato the Younger. They loved him
because he was willing to risk everything for the principles
of virtue and of republicanism. He was willing to oppose
(22:06):
Julius Caesar to the very end and even commit suicide
rather than to give in to Julius Caesar. Now, in
seventeen twelve, there was a play written about Cato the Younger.
It was titled Cato a Tragedy, written by Joseph Addison.
(22:29):
And what you have here in this play is a
display of what great Roman virtue was all about in
the minds of eighteenth century englishmen. All of the American
founders had read it, and they all loved Cato for
his principled stand against tyranny and his willingness to commit
(22:52):
suicide in the face of it. And so what you
have here is the Founding fathers actually memoryzing many lines
in this play. One of the most famous moments in
which this was used is in Nathan Hale's execution at
the hands of the British Nathan Hale the spy on
(23:13):
Long Island. He was caught and he was hung, and
he said, I regret that I have but one life
to give for my country. Those are the last words
of Cato the Younger in the play by Joseph Addison
Cato the Tragedy. And so these ideas, these biblical and
(23:33):
classical ideas very much apart of the revolution and of
what they want to do there and why the revolution
is not the bloody mess that other revolutions are going
to be. They wanted to make it virtuous, law abiding,
virtuous not only in a classical sense, but also in
a biblical sense, to make sure that they honor God.
(23:56):
All of this is part of the American Revolution. So
the final part of this, as the founders look back
to the classical and biblical world, I want to just
really talk about some of the ideals and some of
the people, some of the models that they're looking to.
(24:17):
For instance, our notion of a government that includes the legislative,
the executive, and the judicial kind of a balance of
powers there that the founders produce and creating this new government,
that creating this constitution. This is not really something that
(24:38):
they made up off the top of their head. You
find this in Athenian Democracy, you find this expressed in
Aristotle's writings on the Politics. You see that our founders
have been reading a good dose of Aristotle. I want
to point out, though, the very interesting description that the
(24:59):
Greek history orian Polybius gives about the Roman Republic. Now,
whether or not he's entirely correct, there is a very
interesting approach that he takes to describing the Roman Republic
that you can definitely see influencing the American founders. And
what he does. He talks about the three parts of
(25:20):
the Roman Republic, the consuls, which he equates to a
kind of monarchy, the senate, which he equates to a
kind of aristocracy, and then the people, who are the
democratic aspect of the Roman government. And all of these pieces,
according to Polybius, work in a kind of balance of
(25:41):
powers to make the government work. And indeed it was
a brilliant government, the Roman Republic. Now, the Romans understood
and the Greeks understood that democracy is inherently what chaotic
and emotional, so it needs to be balanced by a
more wise and certain and established institution like the Senate.
(26:03):
And so that is what the Romans shoot for. And
when you look at our own government, the American government,
that's exactly what the Founders are shooting for. You know,
you have in the House of Representatives and representatives who
serve for two years a constant kind of chaotic, emotional
expression of the people, and it's constantly overturning, and there
(26:26):
are four hundred plus of them, and they're always producing
all kinds of new legislation. And it's for the Senate,
and senators sit for six years. Who are there more
long term there to be more considered, more wise, more judicious,
more rational, to balance out that democratic aspect that is
(26:48):
so noisy, but both sides are expressed. And where do
the Founders get that, Well from studying the Roman Republic.
The Roman Republic, in fact, was something that they looked
to instantly, not without some skepticism, because there are things
they didn't like. Jefferson did not like the aristocratic element
(27:08):
of the Roman Senate and Roman Republicanism that way, and
so he wanted really an aristocracy of merit not an
aristocracy by birth, and so there were things they didn't
like about the Roman Republic, but they did look to
the Republic for this. And in fact, the presidency of
the United States has certain powers for foreign affairs, certain
(27:29):
powers for the military. The presidency also has tribunition power.
He has the ability to veto legislation, which is what
tribunes did in the Roman Republic. He could say veto
or I forbid it. And so you have kind of
baked into this form of government, the American Constitution an
(27:52):
expression of all of these balances that you find Greek
understanding and conversation of the best form of government and
in the publican Roman Republican form of government. So this
is very much what our founders are looking to. Another
thing that they're looking to as well, as religious freedom,
is absolutely crucial that they create this notion that there
(28:13):
would be no state church because of how much the
state controlled religion, whether in the Greek world or in
the Roman world, or in the medieval world, the medieval
Germanic kings controlling the church. You have Henry the Eighth
and the Church of England also in their minds, and
(28:33):
this idea that religion should be freely expressed, very much
a part of kind of the early Christian ideal of
religious expression, also very much baked into this government and
this political atmosphere that was being created. And so this
is the classical and to a great extent, the biblical
foundations of who we are as Americans and her colonies
(28:57):
and the revolution and in our democratic republic.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And a terrific job by the production, editing and storytelling
by Megan Pitcock, and she's a product of Hillsdale College.
Also a product of Hillsdale College is our storyteller, doctor
Kenneth Calvert, and he teaches history at the college. And
what a story he's told us about the foundations of
our country, the founding ideals, the founding principles and purposes,
(29:23):
and one of them was to avoid the chaos the
traditional revolutions well left behind and to leave something different,
something better, And that this was not done for anarchy's
sake or for rebellion's sake, but to make the country
closer to and more representative of the ideals of a
virtuous society, many of it coming from England itself, England
(29:47):
itself being the source of so much. But as we
learned ancient Rome and more looking for the best answers
that would produce a good and virtuous society, and with
God at the center, and this whole idea of kingship
and gods. And of course we heard a little bit
about Daniel from the Bible. The story of America, the
story of classical education and the classics, and how it
(30:12):
related to our founding. Here on our American stories,
Host
Lee Habeeb
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.