October 24, 2025 • 9 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, in the winter of 1838, a political argument in Congress crossed a line few thought possible. Maine Representative Jonathan Cilley and Kentucky’s William Graves met on a field just outside Washington, rifles in hand. The nation watched in disbelief as two elected officials prepared to settle a dispute the old-fashioned way. When the smoke cleared, one man was dead—and House Resolution 8 soon followed, banning duels between lawmakers. Our regular contributor and firearms historian, Ashley Hlebinsky, revisits this little-known chapter in American history.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib, and this is our American Stories.
House Resolution eight was introduced on March fifth, eighteen thirty eight.
The bill was drafted following a duel between US Congressman
Here to tell the story is Ashley Leminski. Ashley is
the former co host of Discovery Channels Master of Arms,
(00:31):
and she's also the co founder of the University of
Wyoming College of Laws Firearms Research Center. Here's Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
When you think about duels, you usually think of two
men that have a bone to pick with each other.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
And I think the most well known.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Duel is the one between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burt.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
But one I don't think a.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Lot of people realize is that dueling, which has been
around for hundreds and hundreds of years, is often an
illegal practice. I think sometimes we think, when you romanticize
the past, that these duels that occurred were things that
were allowed or sanctioned.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Maybe they were looked down upon, but they weren't illegal.
And in that duel.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr, Burr was actually indicted
for killing Hamilton, but political favor so it made sure
that the charges were dropped, but he was indicted for murder.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The other thing that comes to mind when you think.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
About duels are pistols, and pistols for a long time
were the weapon of choice for dueling, although prior to
the invention of guns, swords were used.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
About as much.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
But in eighteen thirty eight, two congressmen made the peculiar
decision to use rifles, and the rest is relatively embarrassing history.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
The Code Duello was the kind.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Of set of rules was the practice of dueling an
honor that was created in the seventeen seventies that was overseas,
and it's actually a quite comprehensive list. Where someone offends
another and that defender needs to apologize first, and if
the apology doesn't go forward, then they can go to
taking next steps and preparing for a duel. But even then,
(02:19):
death is not necessarily the result of all duels, so
a lot of times it goes until first blood. So
once somebody is hit with a firearm, then you can
choose to end it. You can also choose to end
it if two people fire and nothing happens, they don't
hit anybody. But there's just a lot of rules that
go into the code that people honor when it comes
(02:40):
to duels. So usually the person that challenges one to
a duel, they then give the honor I guess is
the word of the person that's been challenged to choose
the weapon. So for the most part you see dueling
pistols which are smoothbore pistols. And it's important to point
out the smooth more part of it, because a smooth
(03:02):
war pistol doesn't have rifling, and rifling makes a fire
more accurate, but choosing something that would have rifling puts
a lot more seriousness onto the duel itself. And the
duel that I'm talking about took place in February of
eighteen thirty eight, and it was actually between two congressmen,
(03:23):
Representative Jonathan Silly of Maine and Representative William Graves of Kentucky,
who prior to their duels weren't known to have eddie
beef with one another.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And the fight that kind.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Of ensues, what leads up to this duel is feeling
kind of a nothing burger. So there's an article that
comes out in the New York Courier and Acquirer that
accuses a senator anonymously. They don't name the senator but
it accuses the Senator of corruption, and the editor of
the newspaper, James Watson Webb really wants to kind of
(03:53):
push Congress to create an investigation, and then Representative Silly
he actually denounces the climes and he responds in the
paper on February twelfth of that year, and Web takes
offense of this. He does not like that someone is
trying to put resistance on exposing someone that may have corruption.
Maybe Representative Silly knew that person. I don't know, but
(04:16):
Representative Graves gets involved because he operates kind of as
Webb's correspondent. So Graves isn't really involved at all, but
he knows Webb and he works as kind of like
an intermediary between Graves and Silly. So Web writes a
note that he wants passed on to Representative Silly, and
so Graves decides to try to send the note to Silly,
(04:39):
who doesn't want to have anything to do with it.
He's declining it because he doesn't really want to have
the drama in his life, but he says that it's
not for any grander political gesture. But Graves doesn't really
see it that way, and he takes significant offense, and
he sees it as almost the metaphorical first shot, and
that it's not not just an attack on Web's honor,
(05:01):
but refusing the note is an attack on his honor,
which you know, it's kind of silly when you think
about it, because this is a man that really has
no problem with this person the same month of the duel,
and then kind of wedges himself in between a fight
between two other people. And now he's offended, and so
he challenges Representative Silly to a duel, and they name
(05:22):
their seconds, and their seconds are George Jones of Wisconsin
and Henry Rise of Virginia, and the seconds are trying
to kind of convince them to not do this, because
you can make an apology and have that accepted and
you don't have to go forward with it. You don't
have to always go forward with the duel.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And then Silly so.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
He's been challenged, so then he gets to choose the weapon,
and the weapon that he chooses are rifles.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And I'm not one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But I feel like rifles have probably never been used
in a duel, certainly not as high profile as this.
But he chooses rifles and they believe that he chooses
this because he knows the Great has like zero experience
with rifles. He actually has to borrow one in order
to take it to the duel. So I think Silly
thinks he's getting the upper hand even though they're technically
(06:10):
using a far more accurate weapon than you would normally
be using in a duel.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So Grave ends up.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Borrowing a Henry Deringer in forty four caliber, and Derringer
is a well known Philadelphia gun maker. He's usually most
well known for the single shot pistol that bears his name,
and now there's a whole genre of small pistols called Derringers,
but he also made really nice long rifles and military muskets.
So Grave borrow is a Deringer and representative Silly actually
(06:38):
goes and has a rifle that's made by a man
named Tryon, and he's also in Philadelphia, and that name
is not as well known, but it's also a pretty
iconic gunmaker of the time. On February twenty fourth of
eighteen thirty eight, the two men go to Bladensburg Dueling
grounds and they prepare for this.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Battle of honor.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So they set up for the duel and they go
to fire their first shots, and when they do that,
they miss both.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Of their first shots.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So after this, all the people that came to watch
the duel, they're trying to stop them from doing this.
You both fired a gun, you're good enough, you can
call it quits, but they decide to continue on. And
the next shot was even more embarrassing because on the
next shot people thought Graves was actually hit, and he
admits that he was not hit. He was actually startled
(07:29):
by firing his own rifle. He fired it before he
was ready, so he put his finger on the trigger
too soon, and he fired the gun and he got
spooked by it. But on the third try, Graves, of
all people, so you've got this guy who has zero
pretty much zero experience with a rifle, was to borrow one.
Graves is the one that hits Silly in the thigh,
and Silly wills to come to his injuries at the
(07:51):
dueling grounds. In response to this very high profile duel,
the government tries to set four quote to prohibit the
giving or accepting within the District of Columbia of a
challenge to fight a duel and for the punishment thereof,
But it wouldn't completely deter dueling. However, and for those
who are familiar, congressmen don't exactly stop hurting each other.
(08:14):
In the eighteen hundreds, there's also the really iconically known
caning of Charles Sumner that occurs on the House floor
as tensions heat up leading to the American Civil War.
So they might have traded in their guns for canes,
but they're still fighting each other about as much, despite
their being law to kind of help quell those angers.
But today, at least you don't see physical duels occurring
(08:35):
on Capitol Hill. But I feel like it could probably
be said that proverbial dueling continues, and while no one
actually dies, some may argue it's all as childish as
in the past and accomplishes just as little in terms
of forward progress.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And a terrific job and the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to
Ashley Lebinski. She's a frequent contributor here at Our American Story.
She's the former host of Discovery Channel's Master of Arms,
and she's also the co founder of the University of
Wyoming College of Law's Firearms Research Center. And what a
(09:09):
story we heard these two representatives, they found themselves in
a duel and chose, of all weapons, a rifle. And
we learn an interesting bunch of facts about duels, if
they don't have to end in death, that in the end,
once blood is drawn, that could end a duel. Or
they could shoot and both miss and end it. There.
(09:31):
Neither of those things happened in the first two rounds,
and by the third round well Silly had been struck
by Graves and would later succumb to his wounds from
a shot to the thigh. And this was back in
February of eighteen thirty eight. The Story of Dueling in America,
the story of two US Congressmen who dueled with rifles.
(09:55):
Here on our American Stories
This is Lee Habib, and this is our American Stories.
House Resolution eight was introduced on March fifth, eighteen thirty eight.
The bill was drafted following a duel between US Congressman
Here to tell the story is Ashley Leminski. Ashley is
the former co host of Discovery Channels Master of Arms,
(00:31):
and she's also the co founder of the University of
Wyoming College of Laws Firearms Research Center. Here's Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
When you think about duels, you usually think of two
men that have a bone to pick with each other.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
And I think the most well known.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Duel is the one between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burt.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
But one I don't think a.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Lot of people realize is that dueling, which has been
around for hundreds and hundreds of years, is often an
illegal practice. I think sometimes we think, when you romanticize
the past, that these duels that occurred were things that
were allowed or sanctioned.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Maybe they were looked down upon, but they weren't illegal.
And in that duel.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr, Burr was actually indicted
for killing Hamilton, but political favor so it made sure
that the charges were dropped, but he was indicted for murder.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The other thing that comes to mind when you think.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
About duels are pistols, and pistols for a long time
were the weapon of choice for dueling, although prior to
the invention of guns, swords were used.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
About as much.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
But in eighteen thirty eight, two congressmen made the peculiar
decision to use rifles, and the rest is relatively embarrassing history.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
The Code Duello was the kind.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Of set of rules was the practice of dueling an
honor that was created in the seventeen seventies that was overseas,
and it's actually a quite comprehensive list. Where someone offends
another and that defender needs to apologize first, and if
the apology doesn't go forward, then they can go to
taking next steps and preparing for a duel. But even then,
(02:19):
death is not necessarily the result of all duels, so
a lot of times it goes until first blood. So
once somebody is hit with a firearm, then you can
choose to end it. You can also choose to end
it if two people fire and nothing happens, they don't
hit anybody. But there's just a lot of rules that
go into the code that people honor when it comes
(02:40):
to duels. So usually the person that challenges one to
a duel, they then give the honor I guess is
the word of the person that's been challenged to choose
the weapon. So for the most part you see dueling
pistols which are smoothbore pistols. And it's important to point
out the smooth more part of it, because a smooth
(03:02):
war pistol doesn't have rifling, and rifling makes a fire
more accurate, but choosing something that would have rifling puts
a lot more seriousness onto the duel itself. And the
duel that I'm talking about took place in February of
eighteen thirty eight, and it was actually between two congressmen,
(03:23):
Representative Jonathan Silly of Maine and Representative William Graves of Kentucky,
who prior to their duels weren't known to have eddie
beef with one another.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And the fight that kind.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Of ensues, what leads up to this duel is feeling
kind of a nothing burger. So there's an article that
comes out in the New York Courier and Acquirer that
accuses a senator anonymously. They don't name the senator but
it accuses the Senator of corruption, and the editor of
the newspaper, James Watson Webb really wants to kind of
(03:53):
push Congress to create an investigation, and then Representative Silly
he actually denounces the climes and he responds in the
paper on February twelfth of that year, and Web takes
offense of this. He does not like that someone is
trying to put resistance on exposing someone that may have corruption.
Maybe Representative Silly knew that person. I don't know, but
(04:16):
Representative Graves gets involved because he operates kind of as
Webb's correspondent. So Graves isn't really involved at all, but
he knows Webb and he works as kind of like
an intermediary between Graves and Silly. So Web writes a
note that he wants passed on to Representative Silly, and
so Graves decides to try to send the note to Silly,
(04:39):
who doesn't want to have anything to do with it.
He's declining it because he doesn't really want to have
the drama in his life, but he says that it's
not for any grander political gesture. But Graves doesn't really
see it that way, and he takes significant offense, and
he sees it as almost the metaphorical first shot, and
that it's not not just an attack on Web's honor,
(05:01):
but refusing the note is an attack on his honor,
which you know, it's kind of silly when you think
about it, because this is a man that really has
no problem with this person the same month of the duel,
and then kind of wedges himself in between a fight
between two other people. And now he's offended, and so
he challenges Representative Silly to a duel, and they name
(05:22):
their seconds, and their seconds are George Jones of Wisconsin
and Henry Rise of Virginia, and the seconds are trying
to kind of convince them to not do this, because
you can make an apology and have that accepted and
you don't have to go forward with it. You don't
have to always go forward with the duel.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And then Silly so.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
He's been challenged, so then he gets to choose the weapon,
and the weapon that he chooses are rifles.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And I'm not one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But I feel like rifles have probably never been used
in a duel, certainly not as high profile as this.
But he chooses rifles and they believe that he chooses
this because he knows the Great has like zero experience
with rifles. He actually has to borrow one in order
to take it to the duel. So I think Silly
thinks he's getting the upper hand even though they're technically
(06:10):
using a far more accurate weapon than you would normally
be using in a duel.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So Grave ends up.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Borrowing a Henry Deringer in forty four caliber, and Derringer
is a well known Philadelphia gun maker. He's usually most
well known for the single shot pistol that bears his name,
and now there's a whole genre of small pistols called Derringers,
but he also made really nice long rifles and military muskets.
So Grave borrow is a Deringer and representative Silly actually
(06:38):
goes and has a rifle that's made by a man
named Tryon, and he's also in Philadelphia, and that name
is not as well known, but it's also a pretty
iconic gunmaker of the time. On February twenty fourth of
eighteen thirty eight, the two men go to Bladensburg Dueling
grounds and they prepare for this.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Battle of honor.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So they set up for the duel and they go
to fire their first shots, and when they do that,
they miss both.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Of their first shots.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So after this, all the people that came to watch
the duel, they're trying to stop them from doing this.
You both fired a gun, you're good enough, you can
call it quits, but they decide to continue on. And
the next shot was even more embarrassing because on the
next shot people thought Graves was actually hit, and he
admits that he was not hit. He was actually startled
(07:29):
by firing his own rifle. He fired it before he
was ready, so he put his finger on the trigger
too soon, and he fired the gun and he got
spooked by it. But on the third try, Graves, of
all people, so you've got this guy who has zero
pretty much zero experience with a rifle, was to borrow one.
Graves is the one that hits Silly in the thigh,
and Silly wills to come to his injuries at the
(07:51):
dueling grounds. In response to this very high profile duel,
the government tries to set four quote to prohibit the
giving or accepting within the District of Columbia of a
challenge to fight a duel and for the punishment thereof,
But it wouldn't completely deter dueling. However, and for those
who are familiar, congressmen don't exactly stop hurting each other.
(08:14):
In the eighteen hundreds, there's also the really iconically known
caning of Charles Sumner that occurs on the House floor
as tensions heat up leading to the American Civil War.
So they might have traded in their guns for canes,
but they're still fighting each other about as much, despite
their being law to kind of help quell those angers.
But today, at least you don't see physical duels occurring
(08:35):
on Capitol Hill. But I feel like it could probably
be said that proverbial dueling continues, and while no one
actually dies, some may argue it's all as childish as
in the past and accomplishes just as little in terms
of forward progress.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And a terrific job and the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to
Ashley Lebinski. She's a frequent contributor here at Our American Story.
She's the former host of Discovery Channel's Master of Arms,
and she's also the co founder of the University of
Wyoming College of Law's Firearms Research Center. And what a
(09:09):
story we heard these two representatives, they found themselves in
a duel and chose, of all weapons, a rifle. And
we learn an interesting bunch of facts about duels, if
they don't have to end in death, that in the end,
once blood is drawn, that could end a duel. Or
they could shoot and both miss and end it. There.
(09:31):
Neither of those things happened in the first two rounds,
and by the third round well Silly had been struck
by Graves and would later succumb to his wounds from
a shot to the thigh. And this was back in
February of eighteen thirty eight. The Story of Dueling in America,
the story of two US Congressmen who dueled with rifles.
(09:55):
Here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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