December 7, 2025 • 38 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, every Sunday, Our American Stories host Lee Habeeb speaks with Mitchel “Big Mitch” Rutledge, who has spent more than forty years serving a life sentence in Alabama. Each call traces the shape of faith, regret, and forgiveness inside a place built for punishment.
Today’s conversation starts with a different kind of introduction. Lee brings his friend Bo onto the line, hoping Mitch can help him think through a difficult decision. Mitch listens and responds with a patience he’s earned over decades of hard-learned experience.
Speaking with Bo brings him back to the person who first taught him to talk to others with that kind of steadiness. He remembers Sister Lillian, the woman who encouraged him to take responsibility for his actions and to pay close attention to how his choices affected those around him. Her death from breast cancer in 2015 left a quiet ache, and Mitch talks about how her influence continues to shape him even now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib, and this is our American stories.
His next story is about a friend of mine. We're
close in age, but have little else in common. Mitchell
Rutledge aka Big Mitch, was born black and poor in Georgia.
I was born kind of brown and middle class in
New Jersey. He never met his father. I still talk
(00:33):
to my ninety four year old father every week. He
dropped out of high school in his early teens and
was illiterate into his early twenties. I was surrounded by
books growing up and finished graduate.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
School in my early thirties.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Big Mitch spent the last forty four years of his
life in Alabama prisons for killing a man. But this
is not a story about an innocent man sentenced to
prison for a crime he didn't commit. Big Mitch never
denied the crime or made excuses for it. This is
the story of my friend's spiritual transformation while serving his
(01:11):
life sentence. It's also about a friendship. Only God could
have engineered a friendship that began with a single Sunday
morning call. Through these weekly conversations, I hope you come
to know and love him as much as I do.
Here's episode seven, and this conversation took place on February
(01:31):
twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, and we start things off
a bit differently. Included in this conversation is my dear
friend Bo. There'd been an infidelity in the marriage. It
was bea and there'd been a separation in the marriage.
And Bo was interested in talking about his crisis, his
spiritual crisis and his marriage crisis with a man who'd
(01:54):
never been married but had a lot to offer. Here's
Mitch talking to my friend Bo.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
This is a free call from NU an incarcerated individual
at Alabama Department of Corrections. To accept this pre call.
Press one to refuse this pre call, Press two. Thank
you for using Securius.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You may start the conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Now. You know, if life is full of ups and down,
you know that's that's that's that's what it is. At
the same time, decisions come with a living and uh,
I think rather, yeah, you've got to get to the room.
(02:38):
But making you making these bad decisions? And if you do,
you have any clue or whatever your kryptonite is, and
you you saying that the Chrystanite maybe other women's more
females in your life from what have you? But that's
(02:59):
the that's the root. You got to deal with yourself first,
and before you can deal with anybody else, you got
to deal with yourself. But as always, I'm gonna take
you back to God, Jesus Christ. Is that uh? I
first of all say, you know, you got to ask
him to help you. You got to ask him to
(03:19):
guide you. And once you ask God to guide you
and you read his words, then the reverence and respect
that you will have for him will allow you to
be able to focus on the things that he is
speaking about in his words, which will help you a
(03:42):
great deal, you know, because that's what It helped me
overcome most of my obstacles, the things that I'm dealing with.
It is another thing that I feel like everybody should understand,
and that is is is somebody loves you, then you
(04:03):
gotta love him. I assume you and your wife love
each other, but for whatever reason, y'all ain't been able
to work that out. And then you know what that is?
That's the enemy that separating you all at anything coming
between you all in various and various ways, you see,
(04:26):
So you gotta repognize the enemy, and the enemy ain't
necessarid coming in the farm of a physical men. It
can come in the farm of alcohol and come to
the farm of drug, can come in the farm of anything.
But it's it's it's a separation there. It's a bridge
(04:50):
that the enemy is created between you and your wife.
You see it, she said, But for whatever reason, all
can't bridge that gap. And I'm here to tell you
this morning that you ain't gonna be a dood with that. Christ.
I'm serious, now, I don't. I don't. I don't say
(05:12):
that based on something that someone told me or something
I read in the book, even though ain't nothing wrong
with that. I was speaking from experience, my relationship with Christ,
the things that he brought me through, the things that
I tried to overcome, and needs faulty some years incocerated,
(05:33):
and I tried to bridge the gap between myself and
other issues in my life. I never could do it.
But when I gave it Jesus Christ, I was able
to do it. That they to save your relationship, you
gotta you gotta sacrifice all the little things that you
want her right now? Can you do that? Yes? I can't. Okay,
(05:56):
you do that right there, and you will sure her
her because you ain't concerned about it right now, Well,
I want you to do this. You need you ain't
concerned about nothing but what she needs, how she needed.
That gonna heal her, That gonna heal the relationship, that
(06:16):
gonna redeem everything. That's the same way with your daughter
and everything. And I would say, I would go so
far to say, he's right here. It is that you're
gonna have to do that in general right now with that,
if you know the way you're going right now, because
that's the way the enemy they try to continue to
(06:39):
trick us and to see us wanted us to. Well,
you got to give me something, you got to show
me now. Now we got to act like Christ right now.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And you've been listening to Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch,
and my goodness, what words of wisdom. You've got to
deal with yourself first before you can deal with anybody else,
he told my friend Bo. You've got to deal with
yourself and always, he added, I'm going to take you
back to God when we come back more of Sunday
(07:13):
Mornings with Big Mitch here on our American Stories, Lee
hbib here, and I'm inviting you to help our American
Stories celebrate this country's two hundred and fiftieth birthday coming soon.
(07:37):
If you want to help inspire countless others to love
America like we do, and want to help us bring
the inspiring and important stories told here about a good
and beautiful country, please consider making a tax deductible donation
to our American Stories. Go to Ouramerican Stories dot com
and click the donate button. Any amount helps go to
Ouramerican Stories dot com and give, and we continue with
(08:14):
our American Stories and episode seven of Sunday Mornings with
Big Mitch. And in this episode, Mitch is counseling my
friend Bo through a marriage crisis of his own doing.
And by the way, Mitch knows what it's like to
feel like you aren't worth redemption after doing a terrible thing.
No man knows more about that. Mitch killed a man.
(08:38):
But you are worth the work to become a better person,
and forgiveness does come. Let's pick up where we last
left off with Big Mitch counseling my friend Bo.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know what one of the things that was defeating
me when you're going through something like what you're going through,
because I'd have been there. Uh, low self esteem? You
you you begin to dislike yourself. You begin to feel
a shame of yourself. Like what you said, you feel like, uh,
(09:13):
you ain't worried and now because the way people's looking
at you are so that's one of the Endemis made.
The tricks to destroy you ain't work there to have
you feeling so down on yourself, feeling so sorry, feeling
like you nothing because of what you did. That ain't
(09:34):
nothing but a trick. Don't feel that way even though
people may look at you different because of what you did.
And they got to look at you different because of
what you did, because you did something that was uh,
they felt that it was outside your character. But I
used to feel that way because of what I did.
I feel ashamed and and and pitiful and and I
(09:57):
was in couldn't hardly hold my head. It even and
even had an effect on me having it feeling so
bad as that I didn't even want to take care
of myself like I needed to take care of myself.
I didn't even want to uh to, I wasn't even
motivated to try to do the things that I needed
(10:22):
to do. It just took my motivation away, It took
my u it took my will to change the way.
It did that, but I had to but I had
to stop. I had to stop condemning myself. I had
(10:43):
to stop hating myself. I'm not saying you hate yourself.
I'm talking about mention. I had to stop feeling so
ashame of myself. I had to stop alow how other
people me affect me and that way I had to
(11:04):
rise above out and it was hard. But once I
did that, and the most thing I did it was
the struggle, the struggle to change. But I had to
stop defeeding myself by condemning myself. And once I was
(11:29):
able to do that, and and and and and the
ball game had changed. Because see, if you're feeling down
on yourself, sorry for yourself, a shame of you have
one mona bless yourself because of what you have done
or what people say you have done, then you can't
(11:50):
move forward like that. You're you're you're, You're not gonna
be able to do it. You got to deal with
you first. Then I got to told you earlier. You
know you you you you. You got to throw all
all the things that you won't and your relationship can
get better. You got to put that out of the way, right,
(12:10):
now and just folks in on your wife and give
away everything you need right now. You when you've got
to sacrifice, and one other thing you gotta do. You
gotta sold feeling bad about yourself. You got you gotta,
you gotta, you gotta wake up from that. You gotta
get stronger from that. You gotta getet say in your mind,
set back. Regardless of what the homelooker is saying and
(12:31):
what you trying, you got a purpose.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
At this point in the conversation between my friend Beau
and Big Mitch, Mitch decides to share an original poem
about self reflection.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
One day, uh uh I wrote a poem. The title
is reflection, and that's because you reflect. You're reflecting back
home yourself and the struggle that you're dealing with with yourself.
The title is reflection. It is the sins. It is
(13:05):
the sins of my past that plague my day to
day existence as I struggle to evade the enemy of
my past. He is an ever present force in my life,
and he finds no pleasure in my positive growth. He
(13:29):
feedes off all the negative aspects of life that approach
me on a day to day basis. When I lay
down to sleep. He lays down with me, and when
I rise, he rides. His intention at any ways is
to leave and direct my path. I as always, since
(13:54):
my revolution is to defeat him. He is I the
want of my past. Each morning we phase each other
in the mirror and he looks back at me with
feet and jealousy. I smile. I am won by the
(14:16):
grace of God, and I hope that makes a little sense.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Which then counseled Bo on how he can work his
way back into Donna's good graces one day at a time.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It's like I said before, the only way you can
show her, the only way you can show her that
it's not you as the deil, is that you got
to you got to go all in and show her that, hey,
you're worth You're worth her making an effort. You're worth
her forgiving you. You're worth it. And you you just
(14:52):
and you you got to just sacrifice. You got to
go in and sacrifice. You gotta, you gotta prove, you gotta,
you gotta go through him. You got to be redeemed.
You know she ain't Jesus Christ, and know she you
know so you can't you can't strike the same thing
from her that you want to speak to Jesus from
Jesus Christ, because she's a human being. At the end
(15:14):
of the day, she mean hurt. She hit the trained,
and she hurt with you. You you got a job
to do.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Mitch expresses gratitude here for the blessing to be able
to have a conversation with someone in such desperate need
of spiritual guidance.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
It's good to know who you are, Hm, it's really
and I'm glad that we know who we are. I'm
glad that I had an opportunity and I really mean that.
I think I thank you this morning, uh lead, I
thank you both for you guys. Have any time that
(15:56):
if I can say or do anything to help hit him,
it's it's a blessing anytime that I can sit down
and communicate with somebody and we can uh help each other,
we can enlighten each other. It's just like uh, King
Solomon said social steel Charott and steel man sharp and
(16:17):
man or human sharp and human and but anyway we
do that by discussion and everything. I feel good. Yeah,
I love you guys, and I thank God when you
all y'all have a good sun.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
They okay, Well, the same of us Smith's lot this
is this has been awesome. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And and all your words.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, they mean a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I'll take them to heart all right now, and uh
it's gonna be great. But like I said, you got
to be the sac official land. Right now, our host
talk to you again and give you an update. All right,
God bless Okay, probably take care.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Listening to Big Mitch Council, one of my best friends,
through a really tough patch in his life. Again one
that he created for himself and one that Big Mitch
created for himself. Mitch never ever made excuses for why
he ended up in prison. He owned it, he took
responsibility for it. And that's the beginning of any redemption journey.
(17:25):
And his words here, you just gotta sacrifice, he tells BO,
You've got to go through the redemption process. She's been
hurt and you hurt her. But you got a job
to do. What wisdom, what advice? And again Big Mitch
has never been married, but boy does he know about
(17:45):
the journey. That redemption journey, particularly the story of Big
Mitch continues here on our American Stories.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
After these messages, and.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
We returned to our American Stories and episode seven of
Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch. And having finished with Beau,
we continued our conversation Mitch and I, and he expressed
to me that one of the greatest joys in his
life is the opportunity to offer guidance to those in need.
But he owes his talents to one lady in particular,
(18:32):
who offered him the same whight he was offering Beau
when he was stuck in the darkness.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Such Lillian. She was a reading specialist, and she found
out that I could read and write it one day.
What she said, I want you to start to just
think about things and do the best you can to
write down the things that you think. I didn't understand
what she was talking about, and uh so she told me, said, well,
(19:03):
what you think about being in that cell and this
round about this about eighty five or something like that.
I begin to start to put the sentences together, you know,
still struggling with miss spelling and what have you. And
so she never will call me Mitchell. She always called
(19:24):
me Mitchell, she said, because Mitch sounded too much like
the other words. So she said, well, Mitchell, how you
feel about being in that celle that you're in all
day and I said, well, you know, it's not a
good feeling. And then she said, well, you know right
about how you feel about some of the guys up there.
(19:47):
And it went on. So I guess around about eighty six,
that's when she told me. She said, well, you know,
she always encouraged me, she did that, you know. And
she said, well, Mitchell, you is a poet. At the time,
I really didn't know what a poet me. I never
heard the word poet if. I really didn't know what
(20:10):
a poet was. So I said, you know, so I
wasn't ashamed to ask her anything because I knew I
had found idea that she really cared about me, and
she was trying to help me, and I needed help.
And I said, well, what is a poet? So she
told me a person that is able to particulate words
(20:32):
and put them in a format to make a person
be able to feel things or see things that they
are not able to see on their own, or what
have you. And so that's how it started. And I
began to grow and grow in and I still really
didn't feel that I was a poet, but I began
(20:55):
to do more and more and I began to write
and write more things how I felt about things and
so on and like this. Around about about ninety five,
about ten years later, I began to believe that, Okay, well, Mitchell,
(21:19):
maybe you are poored. You know. I don't know, you know.
So I was still on the lamb right there, unbelief
in myself about that particular talent. But I began to
see how some of the guys was respond to some
of the things that I wrote. And then I began
to sit down and just write about everything I can
(21:43):
think of life, anything, you know. And and didn't even
know how I did it. I didn't know that I
had that type of mind that could do that. I
really didn't know that I can accumulate thoughts like that.
I began to believe, I guess around about twenty years later,
(22:06):
I began to visit about two thousand and five. Bout
twenty years later, I began to believe, okay, well, okay,
we Mitch you a poet.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
As he developed as a writer, Big Mitch began to
write with intention. Here's Mitch on the why behind his work.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
When I sat down to write, my intention was to
write something that can awaken someone or that can help
someone see clear once they read it, to understand the
troubles that they're going through once they read it, and
it started to centering around the Creator. At the end
(22:46):
of most of my poems, it ends with individuals understanding
the relationship with God, understanding that all that you go
through in life, if we are going through it without
seeking Him, then we're gonna be last and confused, regardless
(23:11):
what you gain or what you're seeking or what you're
trying to accomplish. At the end of the day, if
God is not at the root of it, then she
ain't gonna really be content or complete and nothing you do.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And it turns out the Big Mitch needed encouragement to
grow in his newfound talents, and Sister Lilian, well, she
never missed an opportunity to remind Mitch of his value.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
She would always kail me things, make sure you are
a counselor meant sure you are a very out provoking person.
She encouraged me always in what she did. God use
her to bring out any talents that I had in
(24:03):
me that I didn't know exist, because that was her
whole but general concern to me to help me understand
who I were that was talent wise or good wise
to come out. And she constantly motivated me and pushed
me and went lit up on me, and I thank
(24:25):
God for that she was. I can recall like, uh
when I didn't want to. Uh she even had me
to draw to be them bout. But uh she constantly
pushed me and in every way possible to be a
better person, to uh bring out the qualities in me
(24:49):
that God placed in me, and and and and writing
it you're knowing what other men uh the speaking you know. Uh.
She uh helped me to realize that, hey, well make
sure you God gave your ability to be able to
uh get in front of people used to uh make
(25:09):
a difference in their lives. And uh she motivated me.
She wanted to encourage me to do that. And I
did that a long time and I came to a
conclusion the okay, well, uh nature uh you you you
you're a good speaker of the grace of God.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
And she used to tell me, you said, well, uh,
I used.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
To tell about some of the things that uh you
talk to guys about and listen to them, you know,
And she said, well, make sure you're a counselor you know,
I said, well, you know, okay, sister, she said, you're
really she said, because you gotta uh understanding here, you know.
And she said, you listen to what a person got
(25:59):
to say it and she said, you don't jud them
on what you said. I would, No, I can't, because
you know I got false to Yeah, but she always
motivated me and pushed me in a poet that ring.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And you've been listening to episode seven of Sunday Mornings
with Big Mitch, and my goodness, the role that Sister
Lilian played in his life. And by the way, we
all have those encouragers in our life, also, the ones
who hold us accountable, and they're generally the same person.
He said of Sister Lilian, she encouraged me always. God
(26:44):
used her to bring out any talents that I had.
She helped me understand who I was and what my
talent was. And I thank God for that. And I
know anyone listening here has that person in their life.
Maybe too, if they're like or three, if they're blessed.
When we come back the final portion of episode seven
(27:06):
of Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch, and we continue with
(27:38):
our American stories and our seventh installment of Sunday Mornings
with Big Mitch. We learn here from Mitch that it's
easy to lose sight of who you are in prison,
where any signs of weakness are met with great risk
of danger. That Sister Lillian was there to remind Mitch
not to entertain the crowd. Here's big mess.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
The person that I am down. You know, God get
credited with the person that I am. Now. She the
one that he molded and shaped me. She really did
that because she took hands on with me and and
she encouraged me to be right. She encouraged me to
read the thing. She uh gave me information on all
(28:25):
types of stuff, you know, to to learn and study
and grow and then become a better person. You know. Uh,
don't be like the other guys. The main thing she
used to tell me, Uh, don't entertain the audience. You know.
And how that came up. You know, she's.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Catholic and uh we on the visit.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Uh she's trying to give me a communion, but I'm
out there with guys that I knew, and and and
she didn't talk to officers until they bring the communion
on the young and give me the communion because all
of them liked her and respect her. So I said,
it's social religions, you know. Uh, it's not the place
to do that. Oh why I said that for? I
(29:07):
don't know what I said that for. And uh, that's
when she told me. She said, listen, she said, you
gonna entertain audience? Are you finna have comedian? With? Which
one you're gonna do? She said, because uh, if you
won't entertain audience, then I get it. I can get
up and go, or you won't take communion, then I
(29:28):
can stay. I said, well, social religion where I feel
like for you to stay. She said, okay. Then so
she said you're gonna take communion? I said, well yeah.
And so after that I wasn't so much concerned about
the guys around then how they felt about what I'm doing,
because you know, once you come off the visitation yard,
they gonna bring it back to the camp about what
(29:51):
you know, all men down there, he's here's these dance
you know. And but anyway, she helped me with that,
and from being on anything that was beneficial to me,
anything that was good for me, I wasn't concerned about
how Indivision felt about that anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And we learned here that with great love comes great loss,
and for Mitchell, loss much greater than his own freedom
was soon to prove a challenge to a strongly developed faith.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So Vilien came in my life in nineteen eighty five.
She passed two thousand and fifteen, and she was a
constant figure in my life for those many years. She
had canceled. She realized several years about five or six
(30:42):
years before before she passed, she had a car accident.
And having a car accident, she went to the doctor everything,
and they discovered that she had counsel and abreast. So
when we get on the visit yard and uh, she
(31:02):
told me about you know what the doctor said, And
she said that you know that, uh, she had caunselor
in the area of her of her body that the
doctors like. Once they got rid of her. But they
said that if if she can remove part of that
particular area of her body, that this possibility to come back.
(31:25):
And I said, well, uh, such religion, I would have
it removed. She said no. She said, I'm gonna leave
the world same way I came in the world. And
she was, she was, she was, she was going bad.
She was she was going I kept telling sister looking
and I said, well, you're not gonna leave this world.
(31:46):
You know, you're not gonna die. And uh it it
it was difficult to see, you know her, because she
then she had you know, they they they they they
had take all the hair off and and and she
didn't you know, she had to wear a wig and
and stuff like that. And she she she was always
(32:11):
particular about how she looked and everything, and so the
council was really bothering her. And uh, I was we
was praying, and I was praying, and I kept telling her,
sister lovely and you know, you you know, God gonna
hear you. You gonna you gonna be okay. And she
(32:33):
she said, Mitchell, I was not gonna spend my life.
She said, I don't want to wait another two or
three years. She said, I don't wanna suffer another two
or three years just to go and have all these
different treatments and putting things and me the you know,
the machine pants and he and stuff like that. So
(32:56):
she didn't wanna go through that. And uh, I'm trying
to tell her, I sus you know, uh another two
three years. You don't know what my answer, you know, Uh,
the signists may come up with something and what have you.
And but she wasn't hearing that. She wasn't she said,
you know, and uh, cause she wanted praid to that.
(33:16):
You know, she wanted praid to die. You know, she
really really really believe it, knew where she was gone,
you know. And that's and that's the difference. So when
a person that said but really believed and uh so,
but I didn't wanna accept the practice she gonna go.
(33:38):
I realized then that, you know, then she was writing
now let her. She wanted me. She wanted to make
sure that I'm I'm okay with her leaving this world.
And I wasn't. And I knew that I was holding
her up. I knew, so I said, wow, I said,
I gotta stop this. So I got I got it,
(34:02):
and uh I read it and uh praised So when
I called her cause I used to call it at
least two or three times a week, and I I said,
so silion, I said, uh, which the hardest thing in
the world for me to do, you know, is this.
They said that I accept that she could have died.
I I, god knows, I didn't want to do that.
And we went on and talked solidion. She is not talking,
(34:25):
you know, said she refused to take the medication and
stuff like that. I said, well she had, so I said,
put the phone to her ear and let her hear
my voice. And she did that and and and she
still wanted to respond. So I I, I said, lord
a marcan Geese, because now the person that had been
(34:51):
in my life, like my mother from nineteen eighty five
to two thousand fifteen nine, she can't even she she
she can't even respond to me. I can't hear her voice.
But you know that tyme that messed me up. That
messed me up real fast. So I hung up the telephone.
I went to uh the target area where you know where,
(35:13):
and I sat down there and I cried, you know,
I cried and UH cried and prayed. I just couldn't
believe it. I called back about two or three more days.
They tell her that they didn't put her in the
medical complex. Said she's not talking at all, says she
(35:34):
she's unresponsible. Called back about three or four more days
and said she had dined and that's when it really is.
But leg just fell for fut of me. So I
go back to my rank. Cause little pupil go, well,
where I lived at it a guy in there that's
(35:55):
sleep in there with me. Uh, he knew something was wrong,
but he he really didn't know, you know, because I
wasn't telling anybody what was going on. And uh the
guy knew sis you know they did. Uh, they didn't
know that she had canceling like that. So when he
told me she died, my mind is went to run
(36:18):
in and die in directions because I never thought I
would be a brill without her being alive. And so
I sit down on Biddy's uh mit you okay? So yeah, yeah,
I'm okay man. So I get up, I go back
to the back, go back to the stall, and sit
(36:40):
down and cry. Some mold didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Uhluks had a terrific job on the production, editing and
storytelling by our own Reagan Habib and Greg Hangler. And
there's always a special thanks to Big Mitch. My goodness,
we got counseling in the first half. Anyone who's going
through any kind of marriage, what great advice, and for
(37:03):
any other kind of strife in your life, go to God.
And of course his conversation about Sister Lilian, his words
and her death. It was just so hard for Mitch
to accept, so hard for all of us too. That
person who championed us, that person who loved us, just unrelentingly.
He said this, She really really believed and knew where
(37:25):
she was going, and I didn't want to accept the
fact that she was gonna go. She would write me
a letter and she wanted to make sure that I
was okay with her leaving this world, and I wasn't,
and I knew that I was holding her up. And
then those days came and that word came that she died,
(37:46):
and Mitch, well, he said, my mind just went through
running in thousands of directions. I didn't know what to do.
Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch, Episode seven Here on Our
American Stories
This is Lee Habib, and this is our American stories.
His next story is about a friend of mine. We're
close in age, but have little else in common. Mitchell
Rutledge aka Big Mitch, was born black and poor in Georgia.
I was born kind of brown and middle class in
New Jersey. He never met his father. I still talk
(00:33):
to my ninety four year old father every week. He
dropped out of high school in his early teens and
was illiterate into his early twenties. I was surrounded by
books growing up and finished graduate.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
School in my early thirties.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Big Mitch spent the last forty four years of his
life in Alabama prisons for killing a man. But this
is not a story about an innocent man sentenced to
prison for a crime he didn't commit. Big Mitch never
denied the crime or made excuses for it. This is
the story of my friend's spiritual transformation while serving his
(01:11):
life sentence. It's also about a friendship. Only God could
have engineered a friendship that began with a single Sunday
morning call. Through these weekly conversations, I hope you come
to know and love him as much as I do.
Here's episode seven, and this conversation took place on February
(01:31):
twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, and we start things off
a bit differently. Included in this conversation is my dear
friend Bo. There'd been an infidelity in the marriage. It
was bea and there'd been a separation in the marriage.
And Bo was interested in talking about his crisis, his
spiritual crisis and his marriage crisis with a man who'd
(01:54):
never been married but had a lot to offer. Here's
Mitch talking to my friend Bo.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
This is a free call from NU an incarcerated individual
at Alabama Department of Corrections. To accept this pre call.
Press one to refuse this pre call, Press two. Thank
you for using Securius.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You may start the conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Now. You know, if life is full of ups and down,
you know that's that's that's that's what it is. At
the same time, decisions come with a living and uh,
I think rather, yeah, you've got to get to the room.
(02:38):
But making you making these bad decisions? And if you do,
you have any clue or whatever your kryptonite is, and
you you saying that the Chrystanite maybe other women's more
females in your life from what have you? But that's
(02:59):
the that's the root. You got to deal with yourself first,
and before you can deal with anybody else, you got
to deal with yourself. But as always, I'm gonna take
you back to God, Jesus Christ. Is that uh? I
first of all say, you know, you got to ask
him to help you. You got to ask him to
(03:19):
guide you. And once you ask God to guide you
and you read his words, then the reverence and respect
that you will have for him will allow you to
be able to focus on the things that he is
speaking about in his words, which will help you a
(03:42):
great deal, you know, because that's what It helped me
overcome most of my obstacles, the things that I'm dealing with.
It is another thing that I feel like everybody should understand,
and that is is is somebody loves you, then you
(04:03):
gotta love him. I assume you and your wife love
each other, but for whatever reason, y'all ain't been able
to work that out. And then you know what that is?
That's the enemy that separating you all at anything coming
between you all in various and various ways, you see,
(04:26):
So you gotta repognize the enemy, and the enemy ain't
necessarid coming in the farm of a physical men. It
can come in the farm of alcohol and come to
the farm of drug, can come in the farm of anything.
But it's it's it's a separation there. It's a bridge
(04:50):
that the enemy is created between you and your wife.
You see it, she said, But for whatever reason, all
can't bridge that gap. And I'm here to tell you
this morning that you ain't gonna be a dood with that. Christ.
I'm serious, now, I don't. I don't. I don't say
(05:12):
that based on something that someone told me or something
I read in the book, even though ain't nothing wrong
with that. I was speaking from experience, my relationship with Christ,
the things that he brought me through, the things that
I tried to overcome, and needs faulty some years incocerated,
(05:33):
and I tried to bridge the gap between myself and
other issues in my life. I never could do it.
But when I gave it Jesus Christ, I was able
to do it. That they to save your relationship, you
gotta you gotta sacrifice all the little things that you
want her right now? Can you do that? Yes? I can't. Okay,
(05:56):
you do that right there, and you will sure her
her because you ain't concerned about it right now, Well,
I want you to do this. You need you ain't
concerned about nothing but what she needs, how she needed.
That gonna heal her, That gonna heal the relationship, that
(06:16):
gonna redeem everything. That's the same way with your daughter
and everything. And I would say, I would go so
far to say, he's right here. It is that you're
gonna have to do that in general right now with that,
if you know the way you're going right now, because
that's the way the enemy they try to continue to
(06:39):
trick us and to see us wanted us to. Well,
you got to give me something, you got to show
me now. Now we got to act like Christ right now.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And you've been listening to Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch,
and my goodness, what words of wisdom. You've got to
deal with yourself first before you can deal with anybody else,
he told my friend Bo. You've got to deal with
yourself and always, he added, I'm going to take you
back to God when we come back more of Sunday
(07:13):
Mornings with Big Mitch here on our American Stories, Lee
hbib here, and I'm inviting you to help our American
Stories celebrate this country's two hundred and fiftieth birthday coming soon.
(07:37):
If you want to help inspire countless others to love
America like we do, and want to help us bring
the inspiring and important stories told here about a good
and beautiful country, please consider making a tax deductible donation
to our American Stories. Go to Ouramerican Stories dot com
and click the donate button. Any amount helps go to
Ouramerican Stories dot com and give, and we continue with
(08:14):
our American Stories and episode seven of Sunday Mornings with
Big Mitch. And in this episode, Mitch is counseling my
friend Bo through a marriage crisis of his own doing.
And by the way, Mitch knows what it's like to
feel like you aren't worth redemption after doing a terrible thing.
No man knows more about that. Mitch killed a man.
(08:38):
But you are worth the work to become a better person,
and forgiveness does come. Let's pick up where we last
left off with Big Mitch counseling my friend Bo.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know what one of the things that was defeating
me when you're going through something like what you're going through,
because I'd have been there. Uh, low self esteem? You
you you begin to dislike yourself. You begin to feel
a shame of yourself. Like what you said, you feel like, uh,
(09:13):
you ain't worried and now because the way people's looking
at you are so that's one of the Endemis made.
The tricks to destroy you ain't work there to have
you feeling so down on yourself, feeling so sorry, feeling
like you nothing because of what you did. That ain't
(09:34):
nothing but a trick. Don't feel that way even though
people may look at you different because of what you did.
And they got to look at you different because of
what you did, because you did something that was uh,
they felt that it was outside your character. But I
used to feel that way because of what I did.
I feel ashamed and and and pitiful and and I
(09:57):
was in couldn't hardly hold my head. It even and
even had an effect on me having it feeling so
bad as that I didn't even want to take care
of myself like I needed to take care of myself.
I didn't even want to uh to, I wasn't even
motivated to try to do the things that I needed
(10:22):
to do. It just took my motivation away, It took
my u it took my will to change the way.
It did that, but I had to but I had
to stop. I had to stop condemning myself. I had
(10:43):
to stop hating myself. I'm not saying you hate yourself.
I'm talking about mention. I had to stop feeling so
ashame of myself. I had to stop alow how other
people me affect me and that way I had to
(11:04):
rise above out and it was hard. But once I
did that, and the most thing I did it was
the struggle, the struggle to change. But I had to
stop defeeding myself by condemning myself. And once I was
(11:29):
able to do that, and and and and and the
ball game had changed. Because see, if you're feeling down
on yourself, sorry for yourself, a shame of you have
one mona bless yourself because of what you have done
or what people say you have done, then you can't
(11:50):
move forward like that. You're you're you're, You're not gonna
be able to do it. You got to deal with
you first. Then I got to told you earlier. You
know you you you you. You got to throw all
all the things that you won't and your relationship can
get better. You got to put that out of the way, right,
(12:10):
now and just folks in on your wife and give
away everything you need right now. You when you've got
to sacrifice, and one other thing you gotta do. You
gotta sold feeling bad about yourself. You got you gotta,
you gotta, you gotta wake up from that. You gotta
get stronger from that. You gotta getet say in your mind,
set back. Regardless of what the homelooker is saying and
(12:31):
what you trying, you got a purpose.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
At this point in the conversation between my friend Beau
and Big Mitch, Mitch decides to share an original poem
about self reflection.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
One day, uh uh I wrote a poem. The title
is reflection, and that's because you reflect. You're reflecting back
home yourself and the struggle that you're dealing with with yourself.
The title is reflection. It is the sins. It is
(13:05):
the sins of my past that plague my day to
day existence as I struggle to evade the enemy of
my past. He is an ever present force in my life,
and he finds no pleasure in my positive growth. He
(13:29):
feedes off all the negative aspects of life that approach
me on a day to day basis. When I lay
down to sleep. He lays down with me, and when
I rise, he rides. His intention at any ways is
to leave and direct my path. I as always, since
(13:54):
my revolution is to defeat him. He is I the
want of my past. Each morning we phase each other
in the mirror and he looks back at me with
feet and jealousy. I smile. I am won by the
(14:16):
grace of God, and I hope that makes a little sense.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Which then counseled Bo on how he can work his
way back into Donna's good graces one day at a time.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It's like I said before, the only way you can
show her, the only way you can show her that
it's not you as the deil, is that you got
to you got to go all in and show her that, hey,
you're worth You're worth her making an effort. You're worth
her forgiving you. You're worth it. And you you just
(14:52):
and you you got to just sacrifice. You got to
go in and sacrifice. You gotta, you gotta prove, you gotta,
you gotta go through him. You got to be redeemed.
You know she ain't Jesus Christ, and know she you
know so you can't you can't strike the same thing
from her that you want to speak to Jesus from
Jesus Christ, because she's a human being. At the end
(15:14):
of the day, she mean hurt. She hit the trained,
and she hurt with you. You you got a job
to do.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Mitch expresses gratitude here for the blessing to be able
to have a conversation with someone in such desperate need
of spiritual guidance.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
It's good to know who you are, Hm, it's really
and I'm glad that we know who we are. I'm
glad that I had an opportunity and I really mean that.
I think I thank you this morning, uh lead, I
thank you both for you guys. Have any time that
(15:56):
if I can say or do anything to help hit him,
it's it's a blessing anytime that I can sit down
and communicate with somebody and we can uh help each other,
we can enlighten each other. It's just like uh, King
Solomon said social steel Charott and steel man sharp and
(16:17):
man or human sharp and human and but anyway we
do that by discussion and everything. I feel good. Yeah,
I love you guys, and I thank God when you
all y'all have a good sun.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
They okay, Well, the same of us Smith's lot this
is this has been awesome. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And and all your words.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, they mean a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I'll take them to heart all right now, and uh
it's gonna be great. But like I said, you got
to be the sac official land. Right now, our host
talk to you again and give you an update. All right,
God bless Okay, probably take care.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Listening to Big Mitch Council, one of my best friends,
through a really tough patch in his life. Again one
that he created for himself and one that Big Mitch
created for himself. Mitch never ever made excuses for why
he ended up in prison. He owned it, he took
responsibility for it. And that's the beginning of any redemption journey.
(17:25):
And his words here, you just gotta sacrifice, he tells BO,
You've got to go through the redemption process. She's been
hurt and you hurt her. But you got a job
to do. What wisdom, what advice? And again Big Mitch
has never been married, but boy does he know about
(17:45):
the journey. That redemption journey, particularly the story of Big
Mitch continues here on our American Stories.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
After these messages, and.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
We returned to our American Stories and episode seven of
Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch. And having finished with Beau,
we continued our conversation Mitch and I, and he expressed
to me that one of the greatest joys in his
life is the opportunity to offer guidance to those in need.
But he owes his talents to one lady in particular,
(18:32):
who offered him the same whight he was offering Beau
when he was stuck in the darkness.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Such Lillian. She was a reading specialist, and she found
out that I could read and write it one day.
What she said, I want you to start to just
think about things and do the best you can to
write down the things that you think. I didn't understand
what she was talking about, and uh so she told me, said, well,
(19:03):
what you think about being in that cell and this
round about this about eighty five or something like that.
I begin to start to put the sentences together, you know,
still struggling with miss spelling and what have you. And
so she never will call me Mitchell. She always called
(19:24):
me Mitchell, she said, because Mitch sounded too much like
the other words. So she said, well, Mitchell, how you
feel about being in that celle that you're in all
day and I said, well, you know, it's not a
good feeling. And then she said, well, you know right
about how you feel about some of the guys up there.
(19:47):
And it went on. So I guess around about eighty six,
that's when she told me. She said, well, you know,
she always encouraged me, she did that, you know. And
she said, well, Mitchell, you is a poet. At the time,
I really didn't know what a poet me. I never
heard the word poet if. I really didn't know what
(20:10):
a poet was. So I said, you know, so I
wasn't ashamed to ask her anything because I knew I
had found idea that she really cared about me, and
she was trying to help me, and I needed help.
And I said, well, what is a poet? So she
told me a person that is able to particulate words
(20:32):
and put them in a format to make a person
be able to feel things or see things that they
are not able to see on their own, or what
have you. And so that's how it started. And I
began to grow and grow in and I still really
didn't feel that I was a poet, but I began
(20:55):
to do more and more and I began to write
and write more things how I felt about things and
so on and like this. Around about about ninety five,
about ten years later, I began to believe that, Okay, well, Mitchell,
(21:19):
maybe you are poored. You know. I don't know, you know.
So I was still on the lamb right there, unbelief
in myself about that particular talent. But I began to
see how some of the guys was respond to some
of the things that I wrote. And then I began
to sit down and just write about everything I can
(21:43):
think of life, anything, you know. And and didn't even
know how I did it. I didn't know that I
had that type of mind that could do that. I
really didn't know that I can accumulate thoughts like that.
I began to believe, I guess around about twenty years later,
(22:06):
I began to visit about two thousand and five. Bout
twenty years later, I began to believe, okay, well, okay,
we Mitch you a poet.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
As he developed as a writer, Big Mitch began to
write with intention. Here's Mitch on the why behind his work.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
When I sat down to write, my intention was to
write something that can awaken someone or that can help
someone see clear once they read it, to understand the
troubles that they're going through once they read it, and
it started to centering around the Creator. At the end
(22:46):
of most of my poems, it ends with individuals understanding
the relationship with God, understanding that all that you go
through in life, if we are going through it without
seeking Him, then we're gonna be last and confused, regardless
(23:11):
what you gain or what you're seeking or what you're
trying to accomplish. At the end of the day, if
God is not at the root of it, then she
ain't gonna really be content or complete and nothing you do.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And it turns out the Big Mitch needed encouragement to
grow in his newfound talents, and Sister Lilian, well, she
never missed an opportunity to remind Mitch of his value.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
She would always kail me things, make sure you are
a counselor meant sure you are a very out provoking person.
She encouraged me always in what she did. God use
her to bring out any talents that I had in
(24:03):
me that I didn't know exist, because that was her
whole but general concern to me to help me understand
who I were that was talent wise or good wise
to come out. And she constantly motivated me and pushed
me and went lit up on me, and I thank
(24:25):
God for that she was. I can recall like, uh
when I didn't want to. Uh she even had me
to draw to be them bout. But uh she constantly
pushed me and in every way possible to be a
better person, to uh bring out the qualities in me
(24:49):
that God placed in me, and and and and writing
it you're knowing what other men uh the speaking you know. Uh.
She uh helped me to realize that, hey, well make
sure you God gave your ability to be able to
uh get in front of people used to uh make
(25:09):
a difference in their lives. And uh she motivated me.
She wanted to encourage me to do that. And I
did that a long time and I came to a
conclusion the okay, well, uh nature uh you you you
you're a good speaker of the grace of God.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
And she used to tell me, you said, well, uh,
I used.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
To tell about some of the things that uh you
talk to guys about and listen to them, you know,
And she said, well, make sure you're a counselor you know,
I said, well, you know, okay, sister, she said, you're
really she said, because you gotta uh understanding here, you know.
And she said, you listen to what a person got
(25:59):
to say it and she said, you don't jud them
on what you said. I would, No, I can't, because
you know I got false to Yeah, but she always
motivated me and pushed me in a poet that ring.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And you've been listening to episode seven of Sunday Mornings
with Big Mitch, and my goodness, the role that Sister
Lilian played in his life. And by the way, we
all have those encouragers in our life, also, the ones
who hold us accountable, and they're generally the same person.
He said of Sister Lilian, she encouraged me always. God
(26:44):
used her to bring out any talents that I had.
She helped me understand who I was and what my
talent was. And I thank God for that. And I
know anyone listening here has that person in their life.
Maybe too, if they're like or three, if they're blessed.
When we come back the final portion of episode seven
(27:06):
of Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch, and we continue with
(27:38):
our American stories and our seventh installment of Sunday Mornings
with Big Mitch. We learn here from Mitch that it's
easy to lose sight of who you are in prison,
where any signs of weakness are met with great risk
of danger. That Sister Lillian was there to remind Mitch
not to entertain the crowd. Here's big mess.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
The person that I am down. You know, God get
credited with the person that I am. Now. She the
one that he molded and shaped me. She really did
that because she took hands on with me and and
she encouraged me to be right. She encouraged me to
read the thing. She uh gave me information on all
(28:25):
types of stuff, you know, to to learn and study
and grow and then become a better person. You know. Uh,
don't be like the other guys. The main thing she
used to tell me, Uh, don't entertain the audience. You know.
And how that came up. You know, she's.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Catholic and uh we on the visit.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Uh she's trying to give me a communion, but I'm
out there with guys that I knew, and and and
she didn't talk to officers until they bring the communion
on the young and give me the communion because all
of them liked her and respect her. So I said,
it's social religions, you know. Uh, it's not the place
to do that. Oh why I said that for? I
(29:07):
don't know what I said that for. And uh, that's
when she told me. She said, listen, she said, you
gonna entertain audience? Are you finna have comedian? With? Which
one you're gonna do? She said, because uh, if you
won't entertain audience, then I get it. I can get
up and go, or you won't take communion, then I
(29:28):
can stay. I said, well, social religion where I feel
like for you to stay. She said, okay. Then so
she said you're gonna take communion? I said, well yeah.
And so after that I wasn't so much concerned about
the guys around then how they felt about what I'm doing,
because you know, once you come off the visitation yard,
they gonna bring it back to the camp about what
(29:51):
you know, all men down there, he's here's these dance
you know. And but anyway, she helped me with that,
and from being on anything that was beneficial to me,
anything that was good for me, I wasn't concerned about
how Indivision felt about that anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And we learned here that with great love comes great loss,
and for Mitchell, loss much greater than his own freedom
was soon to prove a challenge to a strongly developed faith.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So Vilien came in my life in nineteen eighty five.
She passed two thousand and fifteen, and she was a
constant figure in my life for those many years. She
had canceled. She realized several years about five or six
(30:42):
years before before she passed, she had a car accident.
And having a car accident, she went to the doctor everything,
and they discovered that she had counsel and abreast. So
when we get on the visit yard and uh, she
(31:02):
told me about you know what the doctor said, And
she said that you know that, uh, she had caunselor
in the area of her of her body that the
doctors like. Once they got rid of her. But they
said that if if she can remove part of that
particular area of her body, that this possibility to come back.
(31:25):
And I said, well, uh, such religion, I would have
it removed. She said no. She said, I'm gonna leave
the world same way I came in the world. And
she was, she was, she was, she was going bad.
She was she was going I kept telling sister looking
and I said, well, you're not gonna leave this world.
(31:46):
You know, you're not gonna die. And uh it it
it was difficult to see, you know her, because she
then she had you know, they they they they they
had take all the hair off and and and she
didn't you know, she had to wear a wig and
and stuff like that. And she she she was always
(32:11):
particular about how she looked and everything, and so the
council was really bothering her. And uh, I was we
was praying, and I was praying, and I kept telling her,
sister lovely and you know, you you know, God gonna
hear you. You gonna you gonna be okay. And she
(32:33):
she said, Mitchell, I was not gonna spend my life.
She said, I don't want to wait another two or
three years. She said, I don't wanna suffer another two
or three years just to go and have all these
different treatments and putting things and me the you know,
the machine pants and he and stuff like that. So
(32:56):
she didn't wanna go through that. And uh, I'm trying
to tell her, I sus you know, uh another two
three years. You don't know what my answer, you know, Uh,
the signists may come up with something and what have you.
And but she wasn't hearing that. She wasn't she said,
you know, and uh, cause she wanted praid to that.
(33:16):
You know, she wanted praid to die. You know, she
really really really believe it, knew where she was gone,
you know. And that's and that's the difference. So when
a person that said but really believed and uh so,
but I didn't wanna accept the practice she gonna go.
(33:38):
I realized then that, you know, then she was writing
now let her. She wanted me. She wanted to make
sure that I'm I'm okay with her leaving this world.
And I wasn't. And I knew that I was holding
her up. I knew, so I said, wow, I said,
I gotta stop this. So I got I got it,
(34:02):
and uh I read it and uh praised So when
I called her cause I used to call it at
least two or three times a week, and I I said,
so silion, I said, uh, which the hardest thing in
the world for me to do, you know, is this.
They said that I accept that she could have died.
I I, god knows, I didn't want to do that.
And we went on and talked solidion. She is not talking,
(34:25):
you know, said she refused to take the medication and
stuff like that. I said, well she had, so I said,
put the phone to her ear and let her hear
my voice. And she did that and and and she
still wanted to respond. So I I, I said, lord
a marcan Geese, because now the person that had been
(34:51):
in my life, like my mother from nineteen eighty five
to two thousand fifteen nine, she can't even she she
she can't even respond to me. I can't hear her voice.
But you know that tyme that messed me up. That
messed me up real fast. So I hung up the telephone.
I went to uh the target area where you know where,
(35:13):
and I sat down there and I cried, you know,
I cried and UH cried and prayed. I just couldn't
believe it. I called back about two or three more days.
They tell her that they didn't put her in the
medical complex. Said she's not talking at all, says she
(35:34):
she's unresponsible. Called back about three or four more days
and said she had dined and that's when it really is.
But leg just fell for fut of me. So I
go back to my rank. Cause little pupil go, well,
where I lived at it a guy in there that's
(35:55):
sleep in there with me. Uh, he knew something was wrong,
but he he really didn't know, you know, because I
wasn't telling anybody what was going on. And uh the
guy knew sis you know they did. Uh, they didn't
know that she had canceling like that. So when he
told me she died, my mind is went to run
(36:18):
in and die in directions because I never thought I
would be a brill without her being alive. And so
I sit down on Biddy's uh mit you okay? So yeah, yeah,
I'm okay man. So I get up, I go back
to the back, go back to the stall, and sit
(36:40):
down and cry. Some mold didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Uhluks had a terrific job on the production, editing and
storytelling by our own Reagan Habib and Greg Hangler. And
there's always a special thanks to Big Mitch. My goodness,
we got counseling in the first half. Anyone who's going
through any kind of marriage, what great advice, and for
(37:03):
any other kind of strife in your life, go to God.
And of course his conversation about Sister Lilian, his words
and her death. It was just so hard for Mitch
to accept, so hard for all of us too. That
person who championed us, that person who loved us, just unrelentingly.
He said this, She really really believed and knew where
(37:25):
she was going, and I didn't want to accept the
fact that she was gonna go. She would write me
a letter and she wanted to make sure that I
was okay with her leaving this world, and I wasn't,
and I knew that I was holding her up. And
then those days came and that word came that she died,
(37:46):
and Mitch, well, he said, my mind just went through
running in thousands of directions. I didn't know what to do.
Sunday Mornings with Big Mitch, Episode seven Here on Our
American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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