September 13, 2023 • 27 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, McCartys Pottery was founded in 1954 and is known all over the world today… And it all started in the tiny Mississippi Delta town of Merigold — and still stands, over 65 years later! Here’s Stephen Smith, one of the godsons of Lee and Pup McCarty, who now runs the business with his brother.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
To search for the Our American Stories podcast, go to
the iHeartRadio app, the Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts. McCarty's pottery was founded in nineteen fifty four
and is known all over the world today. And it
(00:31):
all started in the tiny Mississippi Delta town of Marigold
and still stands sixty five years plus later. Here's Stephen Smith,
one of the godsons of Lee and Pop McCarty, who
now runs the business with his brother.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You'll hear me refer to Lee and Pup as uncle
and aunt. Now, actually, my brother and I are not
blood related at all. We are related, as Uncle Lee
would say, by love. The whole connection, if you will,
starts in a very small town sort of way, in
the sense that friends of family become family over time.
(01:12):
When we probably all had that situation where you're fourteen,
you know, fifteen years old, and you think, well, exactly,
how are we related to Aunt Susy and your mother says, well,
we're not related at all, and you think, well, wait
a minute, she's been at every birthday party. She comes
to Christmas and you mean, we're not blood related, and
your mother says, no, she's just a very dear friend.
So that was the same situation with us. Uncle Lee,
(01:37):
of course, grew up in Marrigold. He was born in
nineteen twenty three. Mary Gold is twenty three miles from
the river. We're about two hundred miles south of Memphis.
So mary Gold is spelled with an E, not an A.
We're not named after the flower. We're named after Colonel
Frank Marygold came here in the eighteen seventies and started
clearing the land, and then the railroad came in eighteen
(01:58):
eighty two. My great grandfather was the depot agent and
telegrapher for the railroad, and then the town was actually
incorporated in nineteen oh eight. Now, at that time, the
interior part of Balder County, misissipp which is where we
are now, was nothing but swamp. Civilization was on what
people in the Delta referred to as the riverside. The
(02:21):
interior part of the county was all wilderness. Then gradually,
as people moved into the interior part of the county,
they started clearing the land, such as Colonel Marygold, and
civilization began to come to the interior part of Balier County,
and we had two county seats in Balder County because
the officials wanted to make sure that people could get
(02:42):
to the courthouse on horseback and then return home before
dark on horseback. So that's why we have two county seats.
And the odd thing about Mississippi Delta is that in
the late eighteen hundreds we were really entering the nineteenth century.
The rest of the state was moving toward the twentieth century.
(03:03):
When the town was incorporated in nineteen oh eight, the
people were shocked to learn that there would be a
town marshall. Now they knew they were getting a mayor,
but they did not know they were going to get
a lawman that would tell them what to do. They
didn't like that. They were of the opinion that they
didn't need some lawmen telling them what to do, and
(03:24):
if there was a problem, they would work it out
amongst themselves. So again, very much that frontier mentality. Another
great example of that is that the townspeople were resistant
to the idea of a school. They did not want
their children going to school. Their idea was that the
children needed to work, they had land to clear, things
to do, and they saw very little value in an education.
(03:47):
But again this is going back to that frontier mentality,
and it goes to show you how we were entering
again the nineteenth century when the rest of the state
was progressing into the twentieth century. Sole and Aunt Pup
met at Delta State University in Cleveland, Misissippi. Uncle Lee
then went off to World War Two and then returned.
By that time Aunt Pupp had graduated. They married in
(04:10):
nineteen forty seven, and then Uncle and Anpup went to Oxford, Mississippi,
where Uncley attended the University of Mississippi and received his
BA in education. Then from there they went to New
York City where he received his master's in education at
Columbia University, and then they returned to Ole, Miss where
Unclee taught in the Demonstration School, which was a fully
(04:32):
functioning high school attached to the university. While Aunt Paup
was at Dalt State. She had actually studied painting, but
she was very interested in art naturally, and she had
never taken pottery. Now, at that time Ole Miss was
very small and Oxford very small as well, everybody knew
each other, and they knew the chancellor of the university,
(04:53):
who was Chancellor j D. Williams, and aunt Pap asked
j D, as he was known, if she could take
pottery class, and j D said, well, of course, Pop,
you go on down and just tell the professor that
I said it was okay. Great now again ole Miss,
being very small at the time, that was sufficient. So
she arrived early and she told the professor that she
(05:13):
was there to take the class to an audit the
class and that JD had said it was okay. Well, natural,
that's fine, So he said, well, just have a seat,
we'll wait for the rest of the class to ride.
Pretty soon, a big fellow walked in, another big fellow,
and then a whole bunch of big fellas walked in,
and she realized pretty quickly she was taking pottery with
the ole Miss football team, and she was the only
(05:35):
female in the class. So she went home that night
and she said, Lee, guess what and he said what
and she said, you are going to take pottery and
he did. That's how they discovered their love and talent
for pottery. So in some ways a happened chance of life,
(05:55):
But in other ways. We all have a purpose in life,
and this was theirs, and they discovered it. So they
had a little house at two ten South la Mar Street,
which is there still today. There's a little garage attached
to the home, and that's where they had their first studio.
They had Uncle's kick wheel in there, a small little kiln.
(06:15):
But then of course they needed clay. Well, one day
in class, Uncle Lee mentioned off handedly that he needed clay,
and a young lady raised her hand and he said yes,
And she said, well, mister Lee, if you need clay,
why don't you call dad, and I'm sure you can
go over to the house and get all the clay
you want. And he said, okay. Well, the child was
(06:37):
Jill Faultner, the daughter of William Faulkner, and the house,
of course was Rowan Oak, which is still there today.
And Uncle Lee would go and dig the clay that
he needed at Rowan Oak, take it back to the house,
wedge it, and then they would use that clay. So
the very first pieces they made were from the clay
at Rowan Oak.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And you're listening to Steven Smith tell the story of
how McCarty's pottery, Well, how it started one of the
nation's finest pottery makers right here in Mississippi. We broadcast
from Oxford, Mississippi, home of All miss a beautiful town
an hour south of Memphis. When we come back, more
of the story of McCarty's pottery here on Our American Stories.
(07:30):
Lee Hibibe here the host of our American Stories. Every
day on this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across
this great country, stories from our big cities and small towns.
But we truly can't do the show without you. Our
stories are free to listen to, but they're not free
to make. If you love what you hear, go to
Ouramerican Stories dot com and click the donate button. Give
(07:53):
a little, give a lot. Go to Ouramerican Stories dot
com and give. And we returned to our American Stories
and to the story of McCarty's pottery. When we last
(08:15):
left off, we'd heard about the small town of Merrigold,
the Mississippi Delta town where this famous pottery comes from.
Let's continue with the story of the founders behind it,
Lee and Pop McCarty. Here's their godson, Stephen Smith.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Uncle Lee. Because of being born in nineteen twenty three,
he knew my great grandfather. He knew the original settlers
of Marigold. He knew those frontier people personally, and that
same sense of independence came through to Uncle Lee, and
through Uncle to Aunt Pap, and all of that influenced
(08:54):
their art and their mentality of running a business. Uncle
and Aunt Pop refused all offers of help when they
started the business. They wanted to do everything on their own.
They didn't want assistance from a bank. They refused help
from family members. As Uncle Lee told me, they did
not want to be beholden to anyone. They wanted to
(09:18):
live life on their own terms. They wanted to create
their art on their own terms. And they felt that
if they took assistance from anyone, they would have some
means of control, and they did not want that. And
that goes back to that same sense of the settlers
when they first came to Marigold. These were people who
were carving civilization out of a swamp. They didn't have
(09:41):
any help from anybody. They were doing it on their own. Now,
why in the world did two young artists who had
every opportunity to go to New York go to San Francisco.
Where did they want to go? Whin in the world.
Would they return to a very rural, isolated area, which
(10:02):
certainly was the Missipi Delta in the early nineteen fifties. Well,
it was home, It's where they wanted to be. So
they returned to Marigold. But then came the question of
their art, and it was Aunt Pup's idea to create
the business, not Uncle EA's. Aunt Pup decided that they
would have a studio in Marygold and sell pottery. Now,
(10:24):
what to do for a studio? Of course, they didn't
have any money at that time. Uncle Albert and Aunt
Margaret had mechanized the farm to the point that they
no longer needed mules in town. So the mule barn
is empty. So they said, well, just take the mule
barn and use that as your studio, which they did.
They start out in this dilapidated barn. They put Uncle
E's kick wheel in two kills. They remodeled the hayloft
(10:47):
and move upstairs. They didn't have air conditioning. And I
imagine you're living above two kills fired at over two
thousand degrees, you have no air conditioning, heat rises, and
you're in the Missipi Delta, And say, July, what do
you do. Well, they would put a mattress at the
very edge of the hayloft. They'd open the French doors.
There was a screen there to keep the mosquitoes out,
(11:08):
and then they'd turn on a fan and then they
would just suffer. If you want the definition of a
young struggling artist, that's it, and that's how they started out.
They opened the business in August August fifteen, nineteen fifty four,
and then, as they say, the rest is history, we
(11:29):
put the pool in in nineteen sixty four. So again
we opened the business in fifty four. I was born
in sixty six, my brother in sixty two, and in
the afternoons, as small children, we would go and we
would swim in the afternoons, so this'd be the late
sixties the early seventies. Well, uncle and Nipomp had a
hard and fast rule that if they had a customer,
we had to get out of the pool. Okay, just
(11:52):
totally makes sense, obviously. Well, as a child, I never
remember getting out of the pool because they didn't have
any customers. Now I handle the business affairs now for
the studio. My brother's a potter, and I look back
on that time on a Saturday, which in the retail
world that's your busy day, that's the day you pay
(12:13):
your bills. And I am horrified to think that we
didn't have any customers in But this is the real
tribute to Uncle and am Pop as artists. The fact
that they didn't have a customer didn't bother them at all.
They loved the moment that they were there with us
swimming in the pool, and that didn't bother them that
(12:37):
they weren't making any money. But now, of course there
was always a balance between the business in art and
they always, if you will, aired on the side of
art that came first. But Impup was a very astute
business lady as well. Even if they didn't have a customer,
they remained open. We never did advertising. Uncle Lee and
(12:58):
Ampop didn't believe in signs. We didn't have a sign
out front. Still don't have a sign out front. Now
that's a very artistic thing. I mean, why in the
world wouldn't you have a sign, Why wouldn't you advertise
you're a business person? Well, Uncle Lee and Aunt Pup
were both of the opinion that if you create something
of quality, people will come to you. You don't need
(13:19):
to advertise. Now that's a very artistic idea, but that
was the way they operated. Also, they would always close
the business the last wee could December. In the month
of January, we would close and they would go to
Acapuca and they had a wonderful friend down there, Senior Lolo.
We had a little hotel, thirty five rooms, and they
would go along with other artists, writers, poets, sculptors who
(13:41):
were all friends, and they would stay down there for
a month and sort of recharge after a hard year
of work. Now, again that is very artistic. What business
person in the world would just close their business for
five weeks and leave town. They did. Now, of course,
because of Uncle Lee's chemistry background, we developed all of
(14:02):
our own glazes. They're all his formulas. He would work
on the formula. Ant Pup would help critique the way
it turned out because they would run a number of
test pieces. Primarily they're three glazes. There's the nutmeg, which
is a brown cobalt blue, and jade, which is a
green kind of aquamarine. Then Unclean. Ant Puff also developed
(14:23):
a wonderful trademark signature of the Mississippi River, which is
a black, squiggly little curly line on the pieces. Both
the name McCarty's and the river a trademark. The glazers
are all lead freeze who can eat off of them,
serve off of them, and use them unclean. Anipop wanted
to make sure that people would enjoy their art, but
then also that it was functional and that you could
(14:44):
actually use it and enjoy it even more. So it
looks great in your china cabinet, but then you can
take it down, use it for a party, and then
put it back. When Uncleannipuff first started out, like every
young artist, you want to establish yourself, and so they
want to be seen, and so they had shows, and
they were very fortunate. They had shows all over the country.
(15:06):
They were at the Museum of Art in Denver, in Houston,
there was one show in New York. And then they
also had a showing an art fair, if you will,
at the Delgatta Museum in New Orleans in nineteen sixty
one and they won first place. And then really after
that they stopped showing as such. They wanted to focus
(15:28):
on their art in Marygold and so they really stopped
any museum shows and that sort of thing after that point.
Now that being said, there were in the nineties several retrospectives.
The University of Florida did a wonderful retrospective of their work.
The University of Mississippi also did a beautiful retrospective in
nineteen ninety five. The Lauren Rodgers Museum in Laurel, Mississippi,
(15:53):
which is a beautiful museum. They also had a retrospective
in nineteen ninety six. The Mississippi Institute of Arts and
Left gave them a Lifetime Achievement Award. In twenty twelve,
the Missipi Arts Commission gave Uncle and Antpope the Governor's
Award in Excellence and the Visual Arts. So that was
a wonderful ceremonies, a great honor as well. In twenty fifteen,
(16:15):
Uncle he was inducted in the Ole miss Alumni Hall
of Fame, and then Missisi Museum of Art had the
permanent installation in twenty eighteen. So all great honors and
a very fortunate career along those lines. But ultimately their
focus was on their art and being right here in
little Merrigold, Mississippi. That was their real true passion.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And we're listening to Steven Smith tell the story of
McCarty's Pottery, and you're hearing about a remarkable resilience and
independence that the founders of this enterprise were born with.
That frontier mentality of independence. It shaped everything their art,
their life, even where they placed their business. And they
(17:03):
didn't want help from banks or even family. They wanted
the independence to pursue their passion, their art, and their
business choices on their own terms, and indeed they did.
They started out as struggling artists like all do. Soon
they were doing shows around the country, but even that
war on them. They wanted to go back home and
(17:24):
stick to their art. No signs, no advertising, just a
great product. If you've never seen or owned any McCarty's pottery,
well check out their website and you soon will. When
we come back, more of the story of McCarty's pottery,
a legend here in Mississippi where we broadcast from a
(17:44):
local story, a local American dreams story here on now
American Story, and we're back with our American stories and
(18:10):
the story of the world renowned McCarty's Pottery that comes
from right here in the state of Mississippi where we broadcast.
They have their shop in Marigold and the Mississippi Delta.
We broadcast from Oxford, Faulkner Country, some of the great
writers in the world. All miss Country about an hour's
south due south from Memphis.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
A beautiful town.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Come and visit sometime. Let's pick up now with the
story of McCarty's Pottery, as told by Stephen Smith.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So open. The studio in fifty four. Struggled in the
nineteen sixties, Like I said, they didn't have a lot
of the way of customers. And then in the nineteen
seventies it really started to take off as people became
accustomed to it and wanted it and started to come
more often. And what's been amazing over the years is
how the art of Uncle and Pump has in some
(19:02):
ways transcended art itself and become part of the culture
of the state of Mississippi. This probably would have been
around nineteen ninety nine, two thousand. Right in there, a
group of ladies walked in the studio, and it was
pretty clear from the beginning that this was a family.
This was the great grandmother, the grandmother, the mom, and
(19:25):
then the great grandchild. And I talked to the ladies
a bit and they told me that they had come
to the studio for the great grandchild to pick out
her first piece of McCarty's. She was probably about six
or seven, so she did, she selected the piece that
she wanted, and then I got Uncle Lee and he
came out visited with him, and then, of course Uncle
they always had this wonderful tradition that we continue today
(19:47):
of giving children who come to the studio for the
first time their little bluebird of Happiness and it's a
little blue wren, and Uncle Ee would tell the children,
you put it in your south window and it will
as Uncle Lee would say, off e villain melancholy. And
then of course he would tell the children that was
their vocabulary word of the day, because once you're a
(20:07):
high school teacher, you're always a high school teacher. So
Uncle again visited with this group of ladies and the
great grandchild that took photographs, etc. And then later that
day I was in Aunt Pump's office visiting with her,
and I told her about this group of ladies coming in,
and that's when it really hit me that what they
had done was so unbelievable. First, for any artist to
(20:31):
be successful financially during the course of their lifetime is amazing.
In and of itself. And then for your work to
not only be appreciated for its artistic value, the esthetic value,
but to have people take your art and incorporate it
into their lives as part of a family tradition is
(20:52):
really the ultimate compliment for any artist. And that's when
I told Anton Pope, I said, you know, you've done
something that's absoutely amazing. Not only have you and Uncle
created beautiful art and been successful at it financially, but
you have now in a way transcended the art and
become part of a culture and a tradition. And it
has been absolutely wonderful and humbling to see how many
(21:15):
people have taken our work and incorporated into their lives,
and I mean their lives in a total sense. Their
people will come to the studio and buy baptism gifts.
There are people who will come, they'll purchase a challenge
to be used in their wedding ceremony, any number of
different special gifts for anniversaries and birthdays, but then also
(21:36):
even earns to be buried in. And that just utterly
amazes me. And it's such a wonderful tribute to the
work of uncle and Empop and my brother that people
would want as their final resting place to have a
Macarty's earned. It also comes back to something that was
asked of unc Lee many many years ago. A reporter
(21:58):
who is not from the South asked Uncle Lee what
makes McCarty's unique, and Uncle Lee gave the reporter a
non artistic answer, which surprised the reporter. I'm sure the
reporter anticipated Uncle Lee saying something along the lines of well,
our pieces have our trademark Mississippi River on them, and
that distinguishes them from other potters, or our glazes are
(22:22):
all our own formulas and that makes it unique. But
that's not what Uncley said. What Uncley said was such
a typical Mississippi response. He said that what makes McCarty's
unique is that it reminds people of home, a sense
of place. And I've always loved that that phrase, a
(22:44):
sense of place, And Uncle he was absolutely right. There's
something unique with Mississippians. There is something about our native
soul that brings us back. There was an elderly gentleman
in the studio a few years ago and I asked him.
I said, well, where are you're from, sir? He said, well,
I'm from macomb but I live in New Orleans. I said, oh, okay, well,
(23:05):
I love New Orleans. How many years have you been
in New Orleans? And I thought he would say two
or three. He said, I've been in New Orleans about
sixty eight years. But that's a great example of that
connection that we have with our state, that there is
a certain drawl that we have here, a certain as
Uncle Lee would say, connectivity that we have with our state,
(23:26):
with our environment and nature. And it's all those connections
that created McCarty's. If Uncle Ee and Ant pomp had
never met, they both could have been talented artists, but
they never would have created McCarty's on their own. It
took the two of them together to have that law,
that passion to create McCarty's. When you think about a legacy,
(23:52):
it is, of course what you leave behind. Well, naturally,
of course they left their beautiful art behind, no doubt
about that. They also left this wonderful tradition that my brother,
as a potter, continues on today. He had actually learned
pottery under Uncle and Ant Pup as a child. And
we were very blessed that Uncle Lee lived till twenty fifteen,
(24:12):
Aunt Pup until two thousand and nine. And then the
other part of their legacy would be one of inspiration
and an inspiration not just to young artists, but to
any young person out there. Uncle Lie and Aunt Pup
certainly proved that you could pursue your dreams anywhere. I
think a great example of that is in the introduction
(24:34):
to John Miller's book on McCarty's Marty Skylar clays a
wonderful She's a wonderful photographer here in Missippi, she wrote
the introduction to the book. Marty knew Unclean Ant Pup
as a child. She studied photography, went off and lived
in New York City. When her mother became ill, Mardy
returned to some Mississippi to care for her mother. After
(24:55):
her mother passed away, Marty and actually thought about returning
to New York, but Marty's stayed because of Unclean Ant Pop.
And in the introduction to the book, Marty wrote the following,
and I'll quote Marty here. As a budding photographer with
few Mississippi artistic role models, I was sustained by their friendship, promotion,
(25:17):
and support the living example they provided that artists could
survive and yes even thrive in tiny rural towns in
the middle of nowhere was enlightening. They had done what
they wanted to do, and they had done it right
here in the very place I felt I was destined
to return to Uncle and ant Pup. Took nothing and
(25:41):
created something. They took a dilapidated old mule barn that
had been abandoned, and they created a beautiful art studio
where they've made thousands of pieces over the last sixty
five years that we've been in business that people have
taken home and cherished and made part of their lives.
They took dilapidated, abandoned mule pasture and created beautiful gardens.
(26:06):
And in twenty eleven the Greenville Garden Club came photographed everything,
documented everything, and then submitted it to the Smithsonian Institution.
And then in twenty twelve we were inducted into the
Smithsonian's Archives of American Gardens, which for a town of
five hundred and twenty seven people, that ain't bad, you know,
it's amazing. We're part of the Smithsonian. So when you
(26:28):
look at it, you can say their legacy is that
they took nothing and created something and left this world
a better place. And that I think is a legacy
that we could all aspire to, and of course my
brother and I are very honored to continue that legacy
on with that same tradition here in Little Merrigol, Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Madison Derrikcutt, and a special thanks to
Stephen Smith for sharing the story of McCarty's pottery. This
couple took nothing and created something. Their story is more
than just a great art story, a business story. It's
an American dreamer story and by the way, no different
than the Steinway family story. Big city pianos, artists, business
(27:13):
people and a family legacy we all know. And here
are the McCarty's and Little Marigold in the Deep South,
pursuing the same dream. The story of McCarty's pottery the
story of every American dreamer. Here on our American Stories.
This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
To search for the Our American Stories podcast, go to
the iHeartRadio app, the Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts. McCarty's pottery was founded in nineteen fifty four
and is known all over the world today. And it
(00:31):
all started in the tiny Mississippi Delta town of Marigold
and still stands sixty five years plus later. Here's Stephen Smith,
one of the godsons of Lee and Pop McCarty, who
now runs the business with his brother.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You'll hear me refer to Lee and Pup as uncle
and aunt. Now, actually, my brother and I are not
blood related at all. We are related, as Uncle Lee
would say, by love. The whole connection, if you will,
starts in a very small town sort of way, in
the sense that friends of family become family over time.
(01:12):
When we probably all had that situation where you're fourteen,
you know, fifteen years old, and you think, well, exactly,
how are we related to Aunt Susy and your mother says, well,
we're not related at all, and you think, well, wait
a minute, she's been at every birthday party. She comes
to Christmas and you mean, we're not blood related, and
your mother says, no, she's just a very dear friend.
So that was the same situation with us. Uncle Lee,
(01:37):
of course, grew up in Marrigold. He was born in
nineteen twenty three. Mary Gold is twenty three miles from
the river. We're about two hundred miles south of Memphis.
So mary Gold is spelled with an E, not an A.
We're not named after the flower. We're named after Colonel
Frank Marygold came here in the eighteen seventies and started
clearing the land, and then the railroad came in eighteen
(01:58):
eighty two. My great grandfather was the depot agent and
telegrapher for the railroad, and then the town was actually
incorporated in nineteen oh eight. Now, at that time, the
interior part of Balder County, misissipp which is where we
are now, was nothing but swamp. Civilization was on what
people in the Delta referred to as the riverside. The
(02:21):
interior part of the county was all wilderness. Then gradually,
as people moved into the interior part of the county,
they started clearing the land, such as Colonel Marygold, and
civilization began to come to the interior part of Balier County,
and we had two county seats in Balder County because
the officials wanted to make sure that people could get
(02:42):
to the courthouse on horseback and then return home before
dark on horseback. So that's why we have two county seats.
And the odd thing about Mississippi Delta is that in
the late eighteen hundreds we were really entering the nineteenth century.
The rest of the state was moving toward the twentieth century.
(03:03):
When the town was incorporated in nineteen oh eight, the
people were shocked to learn that there would be a
town marshall. Now they knew they were getting a mayor,
but they did not know they were going to get
a lawman that would tell them what to do. They
didn't like that. They were of the opinion that they
didn't need some lawmen telling them what to do, and
(03:24):
if there was a problem, they would work it out
amongst themselves. So again, very much that frontier mentality. Another
great example of that is that the townspeople were resistant
to the idea of a school. They did not want
their children going to school. Their idea was that the
children needed to work, they had land to clear, things
to do, and they saw very little value in an education.
(03:47):
But again this is going back to that frontier mentality,
and it goes to show you how we were entering
again the nineteenth century when the rest of the state
was progressing into the twentieth century. Sole and Aunt Pup
met at Delta State University in Cleveland, Misissippi. Uncle Lee
then went off to World War Two and then returned.
By that time Aunt Pupp had graduated. They married in
(04:10):
nineteen forty seven, and then Uncle and Anpup went to Oxford, Mississippi,
where Uncley attended the University of Mississippi and received his
BA in education. Then from there they went to New
York City where he received his master's in education at
Columbia University, and then they returned to Ole, Miss where
Unclee taught in the Demonstration School, which was a fully
(04:32):
functioning high school attached to the university. While Aunt Paup
was at Dalt State. She had actually studied painting, but
she was very interested in art naturally, and she had
never taken pottery. Now, at that time Ole Miss was
very small and Oxford very small as well, everybody knew
each other, and they knew the chancellor of the university,
(04:53):
who was Chancellor j D. Williams, and aunt Pap asked
j D, as he was known, if she could take
pottery class, and j D said, well, of course, Pop,
you go on down and just tell the professor that
I said it was okay. Great now again ole Miss,
being very small at the time, that was sufficient. So
she arrived early and she told the professor that she
(05:13):
was there to take the class to an audit the
class and that JD had said it was okay. Well, natural,
that's fine, So he said, well, just have a seat,
we'll wait for the rest of the class to ride.
Pretty soon, a big fellow walked in, another big fellow,
and then a whole bunch of big fellas walked in,
and she realized pretty quickly she was taking pottery with
the ole Miss football team, and she was the only
(05:35):
female in the class. So she went home that night
and she said, Lee, guess what and he said what
and she said, you are going to take pottery and
he did. That's how they discovered their love and talent
for pottery. So in some ways a happened chance of life,
(05:55):
But in other ways. We all have a purpose in life,
and this was theirs, and they discovered it. So they
had a little house at two ten South la Mar Street,
which is there still today. There's a little garage attached
to the home, and that's where they had their first studio.
They had Uncle's kick wheel in there, a small little kiln.
(06:15):
But then of course they needed clay. Well, one day
in class, Uncle Lee mentioned off handedly that he needed clay,
and a young lady raised her hand and he said yes,
And she said, well, mister Lee, if you need clay,
why don't you call dad, and I'm sure you can
go over to the house and get all the clay
you want. And he said, okay. Well, the child was
(06:37):
Jill Faultner, the daughter of William Faulkner, and the house,
of course was Rowan Oak, which is still there today.
And Uncle Lee would go and dig the clay that
he needed at Rowan Oak, take it back to the house,
wedge it, and then they would use that clay. So
the very first pieces they made were from the clay
at Rowan Oak.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And you're listening to Steven Smith tell the story of
how McCarty's pottery, Well, how it started one of the
nation's finest pottery makers right here in Mississippi. We broadcast
from Oxford, Mississippi, home of All miss a beautiful town
an hour south of Memphis. When we come back, more
of the story of McCarty's pottery here on Our American Stories.
(07:30):
Lee Hibibe here the host of our American Stories. Every
day on this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across
this great country, stories from our big cities and small towns.
But we truly can't do the show without you. Our
stories are free to listen to, but they're not free
to make. If you love what you hear, go to
Ouramerican Stories dot com and click the donate button. Give
(07:53):
a little, give a lot. Go to Ouramerican Stories dot
com and give. And we returned to our American Stories
and to the story of McCarty's pottery. When we last
(08:15):
left off, we'd heard about the small town of Merrigold,
the Mississippi Delta town where this famous pottery comes from.
Let's continue with the story of the founders behind it,
Lee and Pop McCarty. Here's their godson, Stephen Smith.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Uncle Lee. Because of being born in nineteen twenty three,
he knew my great grandfather. He knew the original settlers
of Marigold. He knew those frontier people personally, and that
same sense of independence came through to Uncle Lee, and
through Uncle to Aunt Pap, and all of that influenced
(08:54):
their art and their mentality of running a business. Uncle
and Aunt Pop refused all offers of help when they
started the business. They wanted to do everything on their own.
They didn't want assistance from a bank. They refused help
from family members. As Uncle Lee told me, they did
not want to be beholden to anyone. They wanted to
(09:18):
live life on their own terms. They wanted to create
their art on their own terms. And they felt that
if they took assistance from anyone, they would have some
means of control, and they did not want that. And
that goes back to that same sense of the settlers
when they first came to Marigold. These were people who
were carving civilization out of a swamp. They didn't have
(09:41):
any help from anybody. They were doing it on their own. Now,
why in the world did two young artists who had
every opportunity to go to New York go to San Francisco.
Where did they want to go? Whin in the world.
Would they return to a very rural, isolated area, which
(10:02):
certainly was the Missipi Delta in the early nineteen fifties. Well,
it was home, It's where they wanted to be. So
they returned to Marigold. But then came the question of
their art, and it was Aunt Pup's idea to create
the business, not Uncle EA's. Aunt Pup decided that they
would have a studio in Marygold and sell pottery. Now,
(10:24):
what to do for a studio? Of course, they didn't
have any money at that time. Uncle Albert and Aunt
Margaret had mechanized the farm to the point that they
no longer needed mules in town. So the mule barn
is empty. So they said, well, just take the mule
barn and use that as your studio, which they did.
They start out in this dilapidated barn. They put Uncle
E's kick wheel in two kills. They remodeled the hayloft
(10:47):
and move upstairs. They didn't have air conditioning. And I
imagine you're living above two kills fired at over two
thousand degrees, you have no air conditioning, heat rises, and
you're in the Missipi Delta, And say, July, what do
you do. Well, they would put a mattress at the
very edge of the hayloft. They'd open the French doors.
There was a screen there to keep the mosquitoes out,
(11:08):
and then they'd turn on a fan and then they
would just suffer. If you want the definition of a
young struggling artist, that's it, and that's how they started out.
They opened the business in August August fifteen, nineteen fifty four,
and then, as they say, the rest is history, we
(11:29):
put the pool in in nineteen sixty four. So again
we opened the business in fifty four. I was born
in sixty six, my brother in sixty two, and in
the afternoons, as small children, we would go and we
would swim in the afternoons, so this'd be the late
sixties the early seventies. Well, uncle and Nipomp had a
hard and fast rule that if they had a customer,
we had to get out of the pool. Okay, just
(11:52):
totally makes sense, obviously. Well, as a child, I never
remember getting out of the pool because they didn't have
any customers. Now I handle the business affairs now for
the studio. My brother's a potter, and I look back
on that time on a Saturday, which in the retail
world that's your busy day, that's the day you pay
(12:13):
your bills. And I am horrified to think that we
didn't have any customers in But this is the real
tribute to Uncle and am Pop as artists. The fact
that they didn't have a customer didn't bother them at all.
They loved the moment that they were there with us
swimming in the pool, and that didn't bother them that
(12:37):
they weren't making any money. But now, of course there
was always a balance between the business in art and
they always, if you will, aired on the side of
art that came first. But Impup was a very astute
business lady as well. Even if they didn't have a customer,
they remained open. We never did advertising. Uncle Lee and
(12:58):
Ampop didn't believe in signs. We didn't have a sign
out front. Still don't have a sign out front. Now
that's a very artistic thing. I mean, why in the
world wouldn't you have a sign, Why wouldn't you advertise
you're a business person? Well, Uncle Lee and Aunt Pup
were both of the opinion that if you create something
of quality, people will come to you. You don't need
(13:19):
to advertise. Now that's a very artistic idea, but that
was the way they operated. Also, they would always close
the business the last wee could December. In the month
of January, we would close and they would go to
Acapuca and they had a wonderful friend down there, Senior Lolo.
We had a little hotel, thirty five rooms, and they
would go along with other artists, writers, poets, sculptors who
(13:41):
were all friends, and they would stay down there for
a month and sort of recharge after a hard year
of work. Now, again that is very artistic. What business
person in the world would just close their business for
five weeks and leave town. They did. Now, of course,
because of Uncle Lee's chemistry background, we developed all of
(14:02):
our own glazes. They're all his formulas. He would work
on the formula. Ant Pup would help critique the way
it turned out because they would run a number of
test pieces. Primarily they're three glazes. There's the nutmeg, which
is a brown cobalt blue, and jade, which is a
green kind of aquamarine. Then Unclean. Ant Puff also developed
(14:23):
a wonderful trademark signature of the Mississippi River, which is
a black, squiggly little curly line on the pieces. Both
the name McCarty's and the river a trademark. The glazers
are all lead freeze who can eat off of them,
serve off of them, and use them unclean. Anipop wanted
to make sure that people would enjoy their art, but
then also that it was functional and that you could
(14:44):
actually use it and enjoy it even more. So it
looks great in your china cabinet, but then you can
take it down, use it for a party, and then
put it back. When Uncleannipuff first started out, like every
young artist, you want to establish yourself, and so they
want to be seen, and so they had shows, and
they were very fortunate. They had shows all over the country.
(15:06):
They were at the Museum of Art in Denver, in Houston,
there was one show in New York. And then they
also had a showing an art fair, if you will,
at the Delgatta Museum in New Orleans in nineteen sixty
one and they won first place. And then really after
that they stopped showing as such. They wanted to focus
(15:28):
on their art in Marygold and so they really stopped
any museum shows and that sort of thing after that point.
Now that being said, there were in the nineties several retrospectives.
The University of Florida did a wonderful retrospective of their work.
The University of Mississippi also did a beautiful retrospective in
nineteen ninety five. The Lauren Rodgers Museum in Laurel, Mississippi,
(15:53):
which is a beautiful museum. They also had a retrospective
in nineteen ninety six. The Mississippi Institute of Arts and
Left gave them a Lifetime Achievement Award. In twenty twelve,
the Missipi Arts Commission gave Uncle and Antpope the Governor's
Award in Excellence and the Visual Arts. So that was
a wonderful ceremonies, a great honor as well. In twenty fifteen,
(16:15):
Uncle he was inducted in the Ole miss Alumni Hall
of Fame, and then Missisi Museum of Art had the
permanent installation in twenty eighteen. So all great honors and
a very fortunate career along those lines. But ultimately their
focus was on their art and being right here in
little Merrigold, Mississippi. That was their real true passion.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And we're listening to Steven Smith tell the story of
McCarty's Pottery, and you're hearing about a remarkable resilience and
independence that the founders of this enterprise were born with.
That frontier mentality of independence. It shaped everything their art,
their life, even where they placed their business. And they
(17:03):
didn't want help from banks or even family. They wanted
the independence to pursue their passion, their art, and their
business choices on their own terms, and indeed they did.
They started out as struggling artists like all do. Soon
they were doing shows around the country, but even that
war on them. They wanted to go back home and
(17:24):
stick to their art. No signs, no advertising, just a
great product. If you've never seen or owned any McCarty's pottery,
well check out their website and you soon will. When
we come back, more of the story of McCarty's pottery,
a legend here in Mississippi where we broadcast from a
(17:44):
local story, a local American dreams story here on now
American Story, and we're back with our American stories and
(18:10):
the story of the world renowned McCarty's Pottery that comes
from right here in the state of Mississippi where we broadcast.
They have their shop in Marigold and the Mississippi Delta.
We broadcast from Oxford, Faulkner Country, some of the great
writers in the world. All miss Country about an hour's
south due south from Memphis.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
A beautiful town.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Come and visit sometime. Let's pick up now with the
story of McCarty's Pottery, as told by Stephen Smith.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So open. The studio in fifty four. Struggled in the
nineteen sixties, Like I said, they didn't have a lot
of the way of customers. And then in the nineteen
seventies it really started to take off as people became
accustomed to it and wanted it and started to come
more often. And what's been amazing over the years is
how the art of Uncle and Pump has in some
(19:02):
ways transcended art itself and become part of the culture
of the state of Mississippi. This probably would have been
around nineteen ninety nine, two thousand. Right in there, a
group of ladies walked in the studio, and it was
pretty clear from the beginning that this was a family.
This was the great grandmother, the grandmother, the mom, and
(19:25):
then the great grandchild. And I talked to the ladies
a bit and they told me that they had come
to the studio for the great grandchild to pick out
her first piece of McCarty's. She was probably about six
or seven, so she did, she selected the piece that
she wanted, and then I got Uncle Lee and he
came out visited with him, and then, of course Uncle
they always had this wonderful tradition that we continue today
(19:47):
of giving children who come to the studio for the
first time their little bluebird of Happiness and it's a
little blue wren, and Uncle Ee would tell the children,
you put it in your south window and it will
as Uncle Lee would say, off e villain melancholy. And
then of course he would tell the children that was
their vocabulary word of the day, because once you're a
(20:07):
high school teacher, you're always a high school teacher. So
Uncle again visited with this group of ladies and the
great grandchild that took photographs, etc. And then later that
day I was in Aunt Pump's office visiting with her,
and I told her about this group of ladies coming in,
and that's when it really hit me that what they
had done was so unbelievable. First, for any artist to
(20:31):
be successful financially during the course of their lifetime is amazing.
In and of itself. And then for your work to
not only be appreciated for its artistic value, the esthetic value,
but to have people take your art and incorporate it
into their lives as part of a family tradition is
(20:52):
really the ultimate compliment for any artist. And that's when
I told Anton Pope, I said, you know, you've done
something that's absoutely amazing. Not only have you and Uncle
created beautiful art and been successful at it financially, but
you have now in a way transcended the art and
become part of a culture and a tradition. And it
has been absolutely wonderful and humbling to see how many
(21:15):
people have taken our work and incorporated into their lives,
and I mean their lives in a total sense. Their
people will come to the studio and buy baptism gifts.
There are people who will come, they'll purchase a challenge
to be used in their wedding ceremony, any number of
different special gifts for anniversaries and birthdays, but then also
(21:36):
even earns to be buried in. And that just utterly
amazes me. And it's such a wonderful tribute to the
work of uncle and Empop and my brother that people
would want as their final resting place to have a
Macarty's earned. It also comes back to something that was
asked of unc Lee many many years ago. A reporter
(21:58):
who is not from the South asked Uncle Lee what
makes McCarty's unique, and Uncle Lee gave the reporter a
non artistic answer, which surprised the reporter. I'm sure the
reporter anticipated Uncle Lee saying something along the lines of well,
our pieces have our trademark Mississippi River on them, and
that distinguishes them from other potters, or our glazes are
(22:22):
all our own formulas and that makes it unique. But
that's not what Uncley said. What Uncley said was such
a typical Mississippi response. He said that what makes McCarty's
unique is that it reminds people of home, a sense
of place. And I've always loved that that phrase, a
(22:44):
sense of place, And Uncle he was absolutely right. There's
something unique with Mississippians. There is something about our native
soul that brings us back. There was an elderly gentleman
in the studio a few years ago and I asked him.
I said, well, where are you're from, sir? He said, well,
I'm from macomb but I live in New Orleans. I said, oh, okay, well,
(23:05):
I love New Orleans. How many years have you been
in New Orleans? And I thought he would say two
or three. He said, I've been in New Orleans about
sixty eight years. But that's a great example of that
connection that we have with our state, that there is
a certain drawl that we have here, a certain as
Uncle Lee would say, connectivity that we have with our state,
(23:26):
with our environment and nature. And it's all those connections
that created McCarty's. If Uncle Ee and Ant pomp had
never met, they both could have been talented artists, but
they never would have created McCarty's on their own. It
took the two of them together to have that law,
that passion to create McCarty's. When you think about a legacy,
(23:52):
it is, of course what you leave behind. Well, naturally,
of course they left their beautiful art behind, no doubt
about that. They also left this wonderful tradition that my brother,
as a potter, continues on today. He had actually learned
pottery under Uncle and Ant Pup as a child. And
we were very blessed that Uncle Lee lived till twenty fifteen,
(24:12):
Aunt Pup until two thousand and nine. And then the
other part of their legacy would be one of inspiration
and an inspiration not just to young artists, but to
any young person out there. Uncle Lie and Aunt Pup
certainly proved that you could pursue your dreams anywhere. I
think a great example of that is in the introduction
(24:34):
to John Miller's book on McCarty's Marty Skylar clays a
wonderful She's a wonderful photographer here in Missippi, she wrote
the introduction to the book. Marty knew Unclean Ant Pup
as a child. She studied photography, went off and lived
in New York City. When her mother became ill, Mardy
returned to some Mississippi to care for her mother. After
(24:55):
her mother passed away, Marty and actually thought about returning
to New York, but Marty's stayed because of Unclean Ant Pop.
And in the introduction to the book, Marty wrote the following,
and I'll quote Marty here. As a budding photographer with
few Mississippi artistic role models, I was sustained by their friendship, promotion,
(25:17):
and support the living example they provided that artists could
survive and yes even thrive in tiny rural towns in
the middle of nowhere was enlightening. They had done what
they wanted to do, and they had done it right
here in the very place I felt I was destined
to return to Uncle and ant Pup. Took nothing and
(25:41):
created something. They took a dilapidated old mule barn that
had been abandoned, and they created a beautiful art studio
where they've made thousands of pieces over the last sixty
five years that we've been in business that people have
taken home and cherished and made part of their lives.
They took dilapidated, abandoned mule pasture and created beautiful gardens.
(26:06):
And in twenty eleven the Greenville Garden Club came photographed everything,
documented everything, and then submitted it to the Smithsonian Institution.
And then in twenty twelve we were inducted into the
Smithsonian's Archives of American Gardens, which for a town of
five hundred and twenty seven people, that ain't bad, you know,
it's amazing. We're part of the Smithsonian. So when you
(26:28):
look at it, you can say their legacy is that
they took nothing and created something and left this world
a better place. And that I think is a legacy
that we could all aspire to, and of course my
brother and I are very honored to continue that legacy
on with that same tradition here in Little Merrigol, Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Madison Derrikcutt, and a special thanks to
Stephen Smith for sharing the story of McCarty's pottery. This
couple took nothing and created something. Their story is more
than just a great art story, a business story. It's
an American dreamer story and by the way, no different
than the Steinway family story. Big city pianos, artists, business
(27:13):
people and a family legacy we all know. And here
are the McCarty's and Little Marigold in the Deep South,
pursuing the same dream. The story of McCarty's pottery the
story of every American dreamer. Here on our American Stories.
Host
Lee Habeeb
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