February 16, 2023 • 30 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, it’s a well-known bit of movie trivia that all 5 films in which actor John Cazale appeared were nominated for Best Picture, and three of them received the Oscar. Further, he appeared posthumously in archival footage in The Godfather Part III, which was also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He is the only actor in history to have this distinction. John Cazale played one of the most iconic characters in film history: Fredo Corleone from The Godfather. Yet today, most people don’t even know his name. Here to tell this story is Jonjo Powers, author of A Small Perfection: John Cazale and the Art of Acting.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we continue with our American stories. It's a well
known bit of movie trivia that all five films in
which actor John Kazzal appeared were nominated for Best Picture,
three of them received the Oscar. Furthermore, he appeared posthumously
in archival footage in The Godfather Part Three, which was
(00:32):
also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He's
the only actor in American history to have this distinction.
John Kazzal played one of the most iconic characters in
film history, Fredo Corleone from The Godfather, yet today most
people don't even know his name. Here to tell this
(00:54):
story is John Joe Powers, author of a small Perfection,
John Kazzal and the Art of Acting. Let's take a listen.
Even though it's been fifty years, I still remember the
(01:14):
first moment I saw John Kazal. I had gone, like
most of the planet had gone, to see The Godfather,
a movie that had exploded onto the popular culture. If
you were a young actor in the seventies, as I was,
it was mandatory viewing because it showcased the once and
future legends of film acting. Marlon Brando al Pacino, Robert Duval,
(01:36):
James Kahn, Talia Shier, Diane Keaton, so many who would
go on to other great performances. In the opening wedding
scene were introduced to the main players in the film.
One by one, The major characters featured for a moment
or two, which brilliantly sets up the story. The last
of them we meet is Freighto. Naturally, in a family
(01:59):
of strong, determined men, he's the weak one, the run
to the litter, He's the forgotten one. I remember when
the camera finally fell on John Cazales Fredo. I immediately thought,
who is this guy? In a scene populated by so
many wonderful actors. This guy wasn't acting. He was just Fredo,
(02:20):
an ordinary guy and extraordinary circumstances, the guy we wouldn't
think twice about if he weren't so perfectly out of place.
Is one of the many ironies of John's life that
this fellow who never seemed to be acting, was in
fact one of the greatest actors in cinematic history. In
(02:40):
the following six years, I would see him four more times.
I found his portrayals riveting. His acting was audacious in
the company of some of the most celebrated actors of
the age. I always considered him to be their equal.
Often they're better among the lovers and the heroes and
the villains. He was the unforgettable, forgotten one, the easy
(03:03):
to pass over one, the weakling, the loser. He was
the one in relief, set back from the spotlight, when
everyone else gathered in the center of the scream. John
roamed the lonely edges, finding truth in each step, and
he was fascinating in the process. John Cazal led a short,
(03:23):
ironic life. He was primarily a stage actor, but made
his feature film debut in one of the most influential
films in cinematic history. It's a rather well known bit
of trivia that John is the only actor with multiple
roles to appear in only films that were nominated for
Best Picture, and every actor with whom he worked, people
(03:45):
like Pacino, De Niro, Hackman, and Streep, all said the
same thing. Working with John made them better. Yet most
audiences don't even know his name. Everything about John's participation
The Godfather is drenched in irony. He was seen by
director Francis Ford Coppola in an off Broadway play called Line.
(04:08):
Francis thought he was perfect for Fredo and he was right.
But at the same time, John's actor friend Al Pacino
was having a very hard time holding on the lead
part of Michael, and the studio was completely opposed to
the casting of one of John's idols, Marlon Brando in
the title role. Four weeks Francis, Marlon, and Al were
(04:30):
always in danger of being replaced, but John was safe
from the start. Who cares about Fredo. It's another irony
that in a film that runs just under three hours
and in which he's only on screen for about ten minutes,
John has as much impact as the leads. He took
the part that no other actor would choose, and by
(04:52):
virtue of his portrayal, turned it into the role every
actor wished he had played. He stood equal to all
other brothers in the Coiling One family, with as much
importance to the story as Sonny, Tom or Michael, but
with a lot less screen time. Even so, he made
Fredo truly iconic. After the movie was released, there was
(05:15):
a joke that circulated for years. Someone would say something like,
in our group, your Fredo, and everyone would laugh because
everyone knew what that meant, weak, stupid, ineffectual. No one
had to explain the joke, it was clear and vivid
because John Cazale made Fredo clear and vivid and very human.
(05:37):
John excelled at bringing his characters to full human life.
As al Pacino said, he really occupied the space, meaning
his characters had height, width, and depth. He never seemed
to be acting at all. In fact, he was so
convincing as Fredo that casting directors often couldn't see him
any other way. Meryl Streep, his co star on stage
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and screen and his lover off, described his gifts perfectly,
saying that he felt a responsibility to the fictional character
as if it were a real soul. What a great
sense of humanity for an actor to have. He was
such a special human being and a uniquely talented actor.
(06:22):
His compassion for his people that he was portraying, and
the sort of responsibility he felt to a fictional character
as if it were a real soul that made him
go that deep into his characters do beautiful, beautiful work.
After The Godfather wrapped, it was entirely possible that John
(06:43):
might have returned to New York and worked the rest
of his life on stage in relative obscurity. But Francis
Ford Coppola knew he had discovered a unique talent. He
revised a screenplay he was writing for his next film,
adding the part of an assistant to the main character,
specifically for John to play as Stan. In The Conversation,
(07:04):
John does the hardest thing an actor can do. He
plays a guy who's just normal. No eccentricities, no quirks,
just a guy who goes to work and does his job.
Actors are so inclined to do something that they often
are unable just to be normal. It's deep within us
(07:24):
to want to be noticed. But John had a way
of being normal that made it impossible for an audience
to overlook him. He was life in the midst of performance.
He was reality in the midst of naturalness. Far from
stealing the scene, John instead enriched it. He didn't attract
anything from the other actors by creating vivid characters, he
(07:47):
added to their reality. Coppola would find himself competing against
himself at the Golden Globes and the Oscars in nineteen
seventy five. The Conversation was nominated his Best Picture for
both awards, as was The Godfather Part two, the continuing
story of the Corleone family, which was in fact both
a sequel and a prequel as a further testament to
(08:11):
John's talents. Francis and Mario Puzzo, the co writer of
the films based on his novel, moved the character of
Fredo into the center of the action. For those of
us who loved John's acting, I call us cazelets. This
film gave us what we were craving, the chance to
see far more of John's unerring talents and to see
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how the rest of Fredo's story played out. If the
Godfather Saga, comprised of all three films, is the story
of Michael Corleone, the first two parts can also be
considered Fredo's story. They are the two characters who grow
and change the most. Fredo was a prince that will
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never see the throne. He will never be head of
the family, but will do instead the bidding of his
younger brother, and he secretly resents it. This is the
stuff of high drama. It's Shakespearean in its structure. The
man who sits in the seat of absolute power is
betrayed by those around him. To retain his kingdom, he
(09:14):
must destroy many of his subjects, all those he fears
may be disloyal. That includes his brother. In another ironic twist,
the least threatening of all the Corley owned brothers becomes
the most dangerous when he's talked into a deal that
promises that there might be something in it for him. Instead,
(09:34):
he becomes a traitor to his family. And you've been
listening to John Joe Powers, author of a Small Perfection,
John Kazal and the Art of Acting. When we come
back more of the story of John Kazal, an American
icon an actors actor Here on our American stories. And
(10:09):
we returned to our American stories. Here again is John
Joe Power's author of a Small Perfection, John Kazal and
the Art of Acting. Let's pick up where we left
off with Gazal's performance as Fredo in Godfather Too. Now,
if a joke came from John's first appearance as Fredo,
this one brought an imitation that was no less repeated.
(10:32):
We just suddenly shout I'm smart, not like people say
like dumb. I'm smart and I want mispect. It was
Fredo's pathetic protest when Michael confronts him about his betrayal.
Most actors would want to be up on their feet
and in Michael's face to play a scene in which
they finally get to vent their frustration. But John knew
(10:54):
Fredo would never go toe to toe with Michael, so
he played the whole thing laying in a lounge chair
like a helpless turtle on his back, never daring to
stand up, and it's one of the most famous scenes
in cinematic history. I've always taken care of you, Fredo,
taken care of me. You're my kind brother, You take
(11:16):
care of me. Do you ever think about that? Did
you ever wants think about that? Save Fredo off to
do this? Send Fredo off to do that, said Fredo,
to pick somebody up at the airport, I mean your
older brother, Mike, and I was stepped over. Ain't do
(11:36):
I want it? I can handle things. I'm smart, but
like everybody says, like dumb, I'm smart and I want
to spect. Three films into his movie career and John
was showing just how deep his talent went. Still in reviews,
in award shows, he wasn't noticed like Fredo. He was
(12:00):
passed over, but it was impossible to ignore him. In
his next film, many believe it maybe his crowning achievement
in movies, and it almost didn't happen because ironically, he
was wrong for the part. Dog Day Afternoon was based
on a real incident, a Brooklyn bank robbery that turned
into a hostage situation. The film was developed as a
(12:21):
vehicle for Al Pacino, who by then was one of
the hottest stars and movies. Al had a slight resemblance
to the actual robber, but in real life, the enforcer
the gunmen who assisted the robbery was an eighteen year
old kid named Sal Sidney Lamite. The brilliant director was
determined to make the film as realistic as possible, building
(12:44):
a replica of the bank in an abandoned store, lighting
the interior with fluorescent bulbs, and even asking the actors
playing the bank personnel to bring in their own wardrobes
from home. To find just the right actor for Sal,
he auditioned every eighteen year old actor he could find.
Then al Pacino made a suggestion read John Kazelle for
(13:06):
the part. Well, Sidney was hesitant, feeling the same actor
who had convinced the world he was Fredo Corleone, who
was completely wrong and he was too old thirty nine
at the time of filming. Still, Sydney had a great
relationship with Al, having just erected him two years prior
in Serpico. So John read three lines for the skeptical
(13:27):
director and Sydney relented. He broke my heart. The director
later confessed, I remember were casting and Sidney lamit wanted
a ninety year old boy. He thought that would be
very important, and he was sort of right. I'd been
reading a lot of people for it, and Al kept
asking me to read John. So of course Sydney going
(13:52):
with John, That's not what I'm thinking, John Kaze, I
don't know the guy who did Fredo. No. Finally, because
I've got such respect for Al, John came in. I stumped.
He could not have looked wronger. And then he read
and it was just the most extraordinary connection. A heartbreaking scene.
And what are we talking about? Talking about a totally antisocial,
(14:15):
probably terrible man, And because I'll broke your heart. Despite
diverging wildly from his historic counterpart, John created a character
unlike any other. Sal was completely closed, tight against the
rest of the world, a total enigma. Sal is unpredictable
(14:36):
in the truest sense of the word, tightly wound, with
a history of military service and prison and isolation. No
one not even al Pacino's Sonny can know what he's
thinking or when he may come unwound. He's the ticking
time bomb that gives the film it's relentless suspense, and
strangely enough, he also gives the film its heart. One
(15:00):
of John's greatest gifts was his ability to draw compassion,
even love, from the audience. For the many portrayed. He
didn't play good guys. He played a pimp, a thief,
and perhaps a killer, a braggart who waves a gun
in the face of his friends and at least once
punched a woman. The most normal of his characters was
(15:20):
a professional voyaire. Yet somehow we have affection for each
of these men. That's because John never judged the characters
he portrayed. He understood them. Such understanding can only come
through exploring their human motivations by asking perpetual questions. According
to Meryl Streep, John was known as twenty Questions in
(15:41):
the industry because he never stopped asking them. And nowhere
was his gift for exploration so completely demonstrated that in
Saal there was behind those sunken eyes a deep well
of sadness, sorrow even, and our inexplicable urges to know
what had wounded him savagely. We want to get to
(16:02):
know the guy with the gun better. Ironically, we never do.
There's no big moment for sal when he reveals his pain. Instead,
as the situation grows more and more desperate, he retreats
further and further into himself, growing ever more still, ever
more quiet, and ever more dangerous. Dog Day Afternoon, like
(16:24):
the previous films in which John appeared, was nominated for
both the Golden Globe and the Oscar for Best Picture,
And like the three previous times, there was no Oscar
nomination for John, but the Golden Globes gave him his
only nomination for a movie work when they put him
up as Best Supporting Actor. Richard Benjamin took home the
award that year. If the lack of award recognition bothered John,
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he didn't complain much about it. He was far more
interested in art than in awards. While making his final film,
he was asked about it and responded by saying, if
you have any nation toward paranoia, that sort of thing
will bring it out in you. You say, what do
I have to do to get recognition of that sort?
But then you put it back in perspective and ask
(17:10):
yourself how much that or any award really matters in
one respect. I'm sorry awards can generate other work. No
actor knew as much about being a supporting actor. That
was never truer than in Dogday Afternoon, in which his
sal urged al Pacino to one of his greatest support trayals,
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I've done a lot of work with John, so I know.
I did a lot of theater with John, and he
became whoever it was he was playing. And John would
be afraid though you'd believe that's who he was, of course,
and I watched him do. I did Dog Day with him,
(17:52):
I did several plays with him, and it was amazing
to watch. It was a lesson in itself. I think
I learned more about acting from John than anybody. And
that was al Pacino's voice, you which is listening to
and you're hearing the story of John Kazzelle as told
(18:13):
by Janjo Powers. His book A Small Perfection, John Kazzelle
and the Art of Acting is available at Amazon and
all the usual suspects. John never judged the men he played.
He understood them, and it's so true and at its best,
that's what acting is it's an exercise in superhuman empathy.
(18:34):
When we come back more of this remarkable life story.
And if you get a chance with your family watch
Godfather one, then watch Godfather too. I mean at the
age appropriate time because it is Shakespearean. The acting is remarkable.
The discussion points for a family, they don't get better.
What is the nature of man? What is good? What
(18:54):
is evil? This is not a movie that colamorizes evil.
There are consequences. The story of John Kazzale, his work
and his profession. Here on our American stories. And we
(19:38):
returned to our American stories, Let's return to John Joe
Power as author of a small perfection, John Kazzale and
the Art of Acting. Powers picks up his story with
John and his dog Day Afternoon costar al Pacino. What
are the great joys of the film is to see
these two actors, who had so much trust than each
(20:01):
other engage in a brilliant duet. Al said all he
wanted to do was to act with John for the
rest of his life. In fact, he admitted that John
was not only his dear friend and acting partner, but
he was one of his acting idols, so much so
that when John came to sel on Broadway, Pechina went
overboard and trying to impress him. I was doing a
(20:24):
play called The Basic Training of Pablo Humma on Broadway
and it was a really great role. And I had
done things with him. I had done the Tony Award
and I was really but John was coming to see it.
And I don't like to know w anyone's in the house,
(20:45):
but I knew John was in the house right, And
every single thing I did, every scene I did, was
trying to impress John. And I knew I'm doing this,
I'm saying this, I'm not doing this, so I'm trying
to impress John. Yeah, and it was over and I
was really unhappy because I knew I hadn't done. And
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John came back. He said, very impressive, very impressive. Yes, yeah,
I said, you know what I said. He was so
graceful though, he was so gracious about it all. But
I said, you know, I knew you were there, and
I was trying to I was doing everything twice as
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much as I had to do it. Yeah, she was good.
It was good. It was good. So you don't know,
you don't realize that you know you've been done it,
but I knew I had, so I was very you know,
he was like one of my idols, so that when
he was coming to see me, it was And that's
the worst thing you could do is try to impress
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your friends who you love. Ironically, dog day Afternoon, their
greatest of all on screen pairings, would be their last.
The next year, John and Al would appear together on
stage for a final time, ten years after they shared
their acting breakthroughs. That same year, nineteen seventy six, John
(22:15):
shared the stage with another actor whose work would become legendary.
While in rehearsals, he confided to Al that he had
met the greatest actress in the history of the world.
Her name was Meryl Streep, and she was at the
start of a career in quickly gaining a reputation that
supported John's assessment. During the production of Measure for Measure,
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John and Merrill fell in love and moved in together.
Their lives on stage and off were colored by a
devotion for one another that intrigued both audiences and friends.
At forty one, John was a bona fide actor with
a rapidly growing reputation on stage and on screen. He
was beloved by his friends and in love with Meryl Streep,
(23:00):
and he was on his way to Broadway. But irony
can be cruel. John played the first preview in the
title role of the Broadway production of Agamemnon. Then he
began to cough up blood. He never returned to the show.
An obsessive smoker, John was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer.
(23:20):
One of his first concerns was will they let me work?
As it turned out they would one last time. Robert
de Niro and Michael Chemino were preparing The Deer Hunter,
an epic film about a group of friends who work
in the steel mills of Pennsylvania and how their lives
were changed by their service in the Vietnam War. For
(23:42):
the role of Stan, a braggart who is always trying
to be a bigger man than he's capable of being.
Both wanted John Kazal As talks about his participation went on.
There was good news and bad news. The good news
was that if John was in the film, Meryl Streep
agreed to play the rather uninteresting role of Linda, a
(24:03):
girlfriend to one of the main characters, in order to
stay close to John during the shooting Jimino offered a letter,
developed the character and add more depth to it. The
bad news was that John was dying. The cancer had
metastasized to his bones. Despite trying different protocols, the prognosis
remained grim. The studio backing the film opposed his casting,
(24:26):
worried that he would die before his scenes were finished.
It was only the united front of Cimino, de Niro
and Streep, insisting that he stay in the film or
they'd resign, that convinced the studio to relent. The shooting
schedule was drawn up, putting all of John scenes. It's
the first to be filmed in the hot June of
nineteen seventy seven. They began shooting the cold autumnal scenes
(24:49):
that would open the movie. For the fifth and final time.
John Kazal would show actors everywhere how it's done. When
it's done to perfection, there is no hint of his
personal struggles. His Stanley once again is a fully drawn
human being, alive and compelling and the most fascinating character
(25:09):
on the screen. Once his and Meryl scenes were wrapped,
they retreated to their loft in New York City, where
John tried to remain optimistic in the face of his deterioration.
Early in nineteen seventy eight, it was clear that he
wouldn't beat the cancer as he had predicted. About three
am on the morning of March thirteenth, John died. He
(25:33):
would not live to see his final film be nominated
for the Golden Globe and win the Oscar for Best Picture,
nor would he see the woman he once called the
greatest actress in the history of the world received her
first Oscar nomination. I've come to regard John rather like
the Vincent van Gogh of acting. Vincent worked obsessively at
(25:55):
his art during his short lifetime, largely without recognition. While
John routinely drew glowing reviews for his stage work, film
critics largely ignored him, and, as mentioned, he was passed
over for rewards. I've long thought that was because no
one knew he was acting. Far from the isolated, damaged
(26:16):
losers he portrayed, John was a gregarious, curious, funny man
who had a type of charisma that drew others to him.
But he, like Vincent, had a singular vision that created
art that confounded the viewer. John's ability to access the
deepest pain of his characters gave them an uncomfortable vulnerability
(26:38):
that made us wonder if we should be watching. His
art disturbed us, but in a way that compelled us
to keep looking. And Like Vincent, John's notoriety has grown
throughout the decades. Six years after he died, the McGinn
Kazal Theater was dedicated in New York to him and
his close friend, the actor Walter McGinn, who had died
(26:59):
the year for John. In two thousand and nine, the
filmmaker Richard Shepherd directed a documentary appropriately short called I
Knew It Was You, Rediscovering John Kazzal. The publicity from
the film generated scores of appreciative essays. Then, in twenty fifteen,
a Czech film festival celebrated John's legacy at their fiftieth
(27:23):
anniversary by running that documentary along with The Godfather Part
two and Dog Day Afternoon. That was the same year
I published my book A Small Perfection, John Kazzal in
the Art of Acting. It coincided with the eightieth anniversary
of John's birth. I had by then watched the five
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films in which John had acted over and over for years,
and had realized that, aside from being five of the
best portrayals in screen history. There were lessons in John's
work every actor should learn. It's intentionally not a biography,
although it has some biographical notes, but I found myself
(28:04):
reluctant to delve too deeply into his personal life. John,
like Vincent before him, was an artist. If you really
want to know an artist, you look at his work.
That's where you'll find the truest biography. John and Vincent
both had their legacies deepened by premature death. They were
halted at perfection and left us without explanation of their
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art nor a need for it. John Kazzal left us
at the height of his promise, with all of the
anticipation of his next appearance still thick in the air.
All of us who love acting and love his acting
will try forever to describe that deep, intangible essence of
John Kazzal. If you want to know about him, watch
(28:51):
us five films. The devotion, generosity, humanity, and responsibility he
displayed as an actor is all we really need to
see in order to know the man he was. The
rest is just a mystery, But mystery is what keeps
us asking questions, and asking questions is what keeps actors
(29:12):
Alive and a terrific job on the production. The editing
by our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to
John Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John Kazal
and The Art of Acting. And I was a young
actor in the early nineteen eighties for very short time,
and I got to see what John did up close
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and personal. I saw him perform on the stage. I
saw Paccino perform on the stage with him. And I
got to see Meryl Streep in measure for measure. These
were things you saw as a young actor, and you
knew these were God given talents. And none more irrespected
and revered than John the Vincent Van Gogh of acting,
both men's body of work shortened by death, the story
(29:58):
of an actor's actor. All five of his films nominated
for Best Picture Oscars. John Cazale his story here on
Our American Stories
And we continue with our American stories. It's a well
known bit of movie trivia that all five films in
which actor John Kazzal appeared were nominated for Best Picture,
three of them received the Oscar. Furthermore, he appeared posthumously
in archival footage in The Godfather Part Three, which was
(00:32):
also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He's
the only actor in American history to have this distinction.
John Kazzal played one of the most iconic characters in
film history, Fredo Corleone from The Godfather, yet today most
people don't even know his name. Here to tell this
(00:54):
story is John Joe Powers, author of a small Perfection,
John Kazzal and the Art of Acting. Let's take a listen.
Even though it's been fifty years, I still remember the
(01:14):
first moment I saw John Kazal. I had gone, like
most of the planet had gone, to see The Godfather,
a movie that had exploded onto the popular culture. If
you were a young actor in the seventies, as I was,
it was mandatory viewing because it showcased the once and
future legends of film acting. Marlon Brando al Pacino, Robert Duval,
(01:36):
James Kahn, Talia Shier, Diane Keaton, so many who would
go on to other great performances. In the opening wedding
scene were introduced to the main players in the film.
One by one, The major characters featured for a moment
or two, which brilliantly sets up the story. The last
of them we meet is Freighto. Naturally, in a family
(01:59):
of strong, determined men, he's the weak one, the run
to the litter, He's the forgotten one. I remember when
the camera finally fell on John Cazales Fredo. I immediately thought,
who is this guy? In a scene populated by so
many wonderful actors. This guy wasn't acting. He was just Fredo,
(02:20):
an ordinary guy and extraordinary circumstances, the guy we wouldn't
think twice about if he weren't so perfectly out of place.
Is one of the many ironies of John's life that
this fellow who never seemed to be acting, was in
fact one of the greatest actors in cinematic history. In
(02:40):
the following six years, I would see him four more times.
I found his portrayals riveting. His acting was audacious in
the company of some of the most celebrated actors of
the age. I always considered him to be their equal.
Often they're better among the lovers and the heroes and
the villains. He was the unforgettable, forgotten one, the easy
(03:03):
to pass over one, the weakling, the loser. He was
the one in relief, set back from the spotlight, when
everyone else gathered in the center of the scream. John
roamed the lonely edges, finding truth in each step, and
he was fascinating in the process. John Cazal led a short,
(03:23):
ironic life. He was primarily a stage actor, but made
his feature film debut in one of the most influential
films in cinematic history. It's a rather well known bit
of trivia that John is the only actor with multiple
roles to appear in only films that were nominated for
Best Picture, and every actor with whom he worked, people
(03:45):
like Pacino, De Niro, Hackman, and Streep, all said the
same thing. Working with John made them better. Yet most
audiences don't even know his name. Everything about John's participation
The Godfather is drenched in irony. He was seen by
director Francis Ford Coppola in an off Broadway play called Line.
(04:08):
Francis thought he was perfect for Fredo and he was right.
But at the same time, John's actor friend Al Pacino
was having a very hard time holding on the lead
part of Michael, and the studio was completely opposed to
the casting of one of John's idols, Marlon Brando in
the title role. Four weeks Francis, Marlon, and Al were
(04:30):
always in danger of being replaced, but John was safe
from the start. Who cares about Fredo. It's another irony
that in a film that runs just under three hours
and in which he's only on screen for about ten minutes,
John has as much impact as the leads. He took
the part that no other actor would choose, and by
(04:52):
virtue of his portrayal, turned it into the role every
actor wished he had played. He stood equal to all
other brothers in the Coiling One family, with as much
importance to the story as Sonny, Tom or Michael, but
with a lot less screen time. Even so, he made
Fredo truly iconic. After the movie was released, there was
(05:15):
a joke that circulated for years. Someone would say something like,
in our group, your Fredo, and everyone would laugh because
everyone knew what that meant, weak, stupid, ineffectual. No one
had to explain the joke, it was clear and vivid
because John Cazale made Fredo clear and vivid and very human.
(05:37):
John excelled at bringing his characters to full human life.
As al Pacino said, he really occupied the space, meaning
his characters had height, width, and depth. He never seemed
to be acting at all. In fact, he was so
convincing as Fredo that casting directors often couldn't see him
any other way. Meryl Streep, his co star on stage
(05:59):
and screen and his lover off, described his gifts perfectly,
saying that he felt a responsibility to the fictional character
as if it were a real soul. What a great
sense of humanity for an actor to have. He was
such a special human being and a uniquely talented actor.
(06:22):
His compassion for his people that he was portraying, and
the sort of responsibility he felt to a fictional character
as if it were a real soul that made him
go that deep into his characters do beautiful, beautiful work.
After The Godfather wrapped, it was entirely possible that John
(06:43):
might have returned to New York and worked the rest
of his life on stage in relative obscurity. But Francis
Ford Coppola knew he had discovered a unique talent. He
revised a screenplay he was writing for his next film,
adding the part of an assistant to the main character,
specifically for John to play as Stan. In The Conversation,
(07:04):
John does the hardest thing an actor can do. He
plays a guy who's just normal. No eccentricities, no quirks,
just a guy who goes to work and does his job.
Actors are so inclined to do something that they often
are unable just to be normal. It's deep within us
(07:24):
to want to be noticed. But John had a way
of being normal that made it impossible for an audience
to overlook him. He was life in the midst of performance.
He was reality in the midst of naturalness. Far from
stealing the scene, John instead enriched it. He didn't attract
anything from the other actors by creating vivid characters, he
(07:47):
added to their reality. Coppola would find himself competing against
himself at the Golden Globes and the Oscars in nineteen
seventy five. The Conversation was nominated his Best Picture for
both awards, as was The Godfather Part two, the continuing
story of the Corleone family, which was in fact both
a sequel and a prequel as a further testament to
(08:11):
John's talents. Francis and Mario Puzzo, the co writer of
the films based on his novel, moved the character of
Fredo into the center of the action. For those of
us who loved John's acting, I call us cazelets. This
film gave us what we were craving, the chance to
see far more of John's unerring talents and to see
(08:32):
how the rest of Fredo's story played out. If the
Godfather Saga, comprised of all three films, is the story
of Michael Corleone, the first two parts can also be
considered Fredo's story. They are the two characters who grow
and change the most. Fredo was a prince that will
(08:52):
never see the throne. He will never be head of
the family, but will do instead the bidding of his
younger brother, and he secretly resents it. This is the
stuff of high drama. It's Shakespearean in its structure. The
man who sits in the seat of absolute power is
betrayed by those around him. To retain his kingdom, he
(09:14):
must destroy many of his subjects, all those he fears
may be disloyal. That includes his brother. In another ironic twist,
the least threatening of all the Corley owned brothers becomes
the most dangerous when he's talked into a deal that
promises that there might be something in it for him. Instead,
(09:34):
he becomes a traitor to his family. And you've been
listening to John Joe Powers, author of a Small Perfection,
John Kazal and the Art of Acting. When we come
back more of the story of John Kazal, an American
icon an actors actor Here on our American stories. And
(10:09):
we returned to our American stories. Here again is John
Joe Power's author of a Small Perfection, John Kazal and
the Art of Acting. Let's pick up where we left
off with Gazal's performance as Fredo in Godfather Too. Now,
if a joke came from John's first appearance as Fredo,
this one brought an imitation that was no less repeated.
(10:32):
We just suddenly shout I'm smart, not like people say
like dumb. I'm smart and I want mispect. It was
Fredo's pathetic protest when Michael confronts him about his betrayal.
Most actors would want to be up on their feet
and in Michael's face to play a scene in which
they finally get to vent their frustration. But John knew
(10:54):
Fredo would never go toe to toe with Michael, so
he played the whole thing laying in a lounge chair
like a helpless turtle on his back, never daring to
stand up, and it's one of the most famous scenes
in cinematic history. I've always taken care of you, Fredo,
taken care of me. You're my kind brother, You take
(11:16):
care of me. Do you ever think about that? Did
you ever wants think about that? Save Fredo off to
do this? Send Fredo off to do that, said Fredo,
to pick somebody up at the airport, I mean your
older brother, Mike, and I was stepped over. Ain't do
(11:36):
I want it? I can handle things. I'm smart, but
like everybody says, like dumb, I'm smart and I want
to spect. Three films into his movie career and John
was showing just how deep his talent went. Still in reviews,
in award shows, he wasn't noticed like Fredo. He was
(12:00):
passed over, but it was impossible to ignore him. In
his next film, many believe it maybe his crowning achievement
in movies, and it almost didn't happen because ironically, he
was wrong for the part. Dog Day Afternoon was based
on a real incident, a Brooklyn bank robbery that turned
into a hostage situation. The film was developed as a
(12:21):
vehicle for Al Pacino, who by then was one of
the hottest stars and movies. Al had a slight resemblance
to the actual robber, but in real life, the enforcer
the gunmen who assisted the robbery was an eighteen year
old kid named Sal Sidney Lamite. The brilliant director was
determined to make the film as realistic as possible, building
(12:44):
a replica of the bank in an abandoned store, lighting
the interior with fluorescent bulbs, and even asking the actors
playing the bank personnel to bring in their own wardrobes
from home. To find just the right actor for Sal,
he auditioned every eighteen year old actor he could find.
Then al Pacino made a suggestion read John Kazelle for
(13:06):
the part. Well, Sidney was hesitant, feeling the same actor
who had convinced the world he was Fredo Corleone, who
was completely wrong and he was too old thirty nine
at the time of filming. Still, Sydney had a great
relationship with Al, having just erected him two years prior
in Serpico. So John read three lines for the skeptical
(13:27):
director and Sydney relented. He broke my heart. The director
later confessed, I remember were casting and Sidney lamit wanted
a ninety year old boy. He thought that would be
very important, and he was sort of right. I'd been
reading a lot of people for it, and Al kept
asking me to read John. So of course Sydney going
(13:52):
with John, That's not what I'm thinking, John Kaze, I
don't know the guy who did Fredo. No. Finally, because
I've got such respect for Al, John came in. I stumped.
He could not have looked wronger. And then he read
and it was just the most extraordinary connection. A heartbreaking scene.
And what are we talking about? Talking about a totally antisocial,
(14:15):
probably terrible man, And because I'll broke your heart. Despite
diverging wildly from his historic counterpart, John created a character
unlike any other. Sal was completely closed, tight against the
rest of the world, a total enigma. Sal is unpredictable
(14:36):
in the truest sense of the word, tightly wound, with
a history of military service and prison and isolation. No
one not even al Pacino's Sonny can know what he's
thinking or when he may come unwound. He's the ticking
time bomb that gives the film it's relentless suspense, and
strangely enough, he also gives the film its heart. One
(15:00):
of John's greatest gifts was his ability to draw compassion,
even love, from the audience. For the many portrayed. He
didn't play good guys. He played a pimp, a thief,
and perhaps a killer, a braggart who waves a gun
in the face of his friends and at least once
punched a woman. The most normal of his characters was
(15:20):
a professional voyaire. Yet somehow we have affection for each
of these men. That's because John never judged the characters
he portrayed. He understood them. Such understanding can only come
through exploring their human motivations by asking perpetual questions. According
to Meryl Streep, John was known as twenty Questions in
(15:41):
the industry because he never stopped asking them. And nowhere
was his gift for exploration so completely demonstrated that in
Saal there was behind those sunken eyes a deep well
of sadness, sorrow even, and our inexplicable urges to know
what had wounded him savagely. We want to get to
(16:02):
know the guy with the gun better. Ironically, we never do.
There's no big moment for sal when he reveals his pain. Instead,
as the situation grows more and more desperate, he retreats
further and further into himself, growing ever more still, ever
more quiet, and ever more dangerous. Dog Day Afternoon, like
(16:24):
the previous films in which John appeared, was nominated for
both the Golden Globe and the Oscar for Best Picture,
And like the three previous times, there was no Oscar
nomination for John, but the Golden Globes gave him his
only nomination for a movie work when they put him
up as Best Supporting Actor. Richard Benjamin took home the
award that year. If the lack of award recognition bothered John,
(16:49):
he didn't complain much about it. He was far more
interested in art than in awards. While making his final film,
he was asked about it and responded by saying, if
you have any nation toward paranoia, that sort of thing
will bring it out in you. You say, what do
I have to do to get recognition of that sort?
But then you put it back in perspective and ask
(17:10):
yourself how much that or any award really matters in
one respect. I'm sorry awards can generate other work. No
actor knew as much about being a supporting actor. That
was never truer than in Dogday Afternoon, in which his
sal urged al Pacino to one of his greatest support trayals,
(17:32):
I've done a lot of work with John, so I know.
I did a lot of theater with John, and he
became whoever it was he was playing. And John would
be afraid though you'd believe that's who he was, of course,
and I watched him do. I did Dog Day with him,
(17:52):
I did several plays with him, and it was amazing
to watch. It was a lesson in itself. I think
I learned more about acting from John than anybody. And
that was al Pacino's voice, you which is listening to
and you're hearing the story of John Kazzelle as told
(18:13):
by Janjo Powers. His book A Small Perfection, John Kazzelle
and the Art of Acting is available at Amazon and
all the usual suspects. John never judged the men he played.
He understood them, and it's so true and at its best,
that's what acting is it's an exercise in superhuman empathy.
(18:34):
When we come back more of this remarkable life story.
And if you get a chance with your family watch
Godfather one, then watch Godfather too. I mean at the
age appropriate time because it is Shakespearean. The acting is remarkable.
The discussion points for a family, they don't get better.
What is the nature of man? What is good? What
(18:54):
is evil? This is not a movie that colamorizes evil.
There are consequences. The story of John Kazzale, his work
and his profession. Here on our American stories. And we
(19:38):
returned to our American stories, Let's return to John Joe
Power as author of a small perfection, John Kazzale and
the Art of Acting. Powers picks up his story with
John and his dog Day Afternoon costar al Pacino. What
are the great joys of the film is to see
these two actors, who had so much trust than each
(20:01):
other engage in a brilliant duet. Al said all he
wanted to do was to act with John for the
rest of his life. In fact, he admitted that John
was not only his dear friend and acting partner, but
he was one of his acting idols, so much so
that when John came to sel on Broadway, Pechina went
overboard and trying to impress him. I was doing a
(20:24):
play called The Basic Training of Pablo Humma on Broadway
and it was a really great role. And I had
done things with him. I had done the Tony Award
and I was really but John was coming to see it.
And I don't like to know w anyone's in the house,
(20:45):
but I knew John was in the house right, And
every single thing I did, every scene I did, was
trying to impress John. And I knew I'm doing this,
I'm saying this, I'm not doing this, so I'm trying
to impress John. Yeah, and it was over and I
was really unhappy because I knew I hadn't done. And
(21:08):
John came back. He said, very impressive, very impressive. Yes, yeah,
I said, you know what I said. He was so
graceful though, he was so gracious about it all. But
I said, you know, I knew you were there, and
I was trying to I was doing everything twice as
(21:30):
much as I had to do it. Yeah, she was good.
It was good. It was good. So you don't know,
you don't realize that you know you've been done it,
but I knew I had, so I was very you know,
he was like one of my idols, so that when
he was coming to see me, it was And that's
the worst thing you could do is try to impress
(21:51):
your friends who you love. Ironically, dog day Afternoon, their
greatest of all on screen pairings, would be their last.
The next year, John and Al would appear together on
stage for a final time, ten years after they shared
their acting breakthroughs. That same year, nineteen seventy six, John
(22:15):
shared the stage with another actor whose work would become legendary.
While in rehearsals, he confided to Al that he had
met the greatest actress in the history of the world.
Her name was Meryl Streep, and she was at the
start of a career in quickly gaining a reputation that
supported John's assessment. During the production of Measure for Measure,
(22:37):
John and Merrill fell in love and moved in together.
Their lives on stage and off were colored by a
devotion for one another that intrigued both audiences and friends.
At forty one, John was a bona fide actor with
a rapidly growing reputation on stage and on screen. He
was beloved by his friends and in love with Meryl Streep,
(23:00):
and he was on his way to Broadway. But irony
can be cruel. John played the first preview in the
title role of the Broadway production of Agamemnon. Then he
began to cough up blood. He never returned to the show.
An obsessive smoker, John was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer.
(23:20):
One of his first concerns was will they let me work?
As it turned out they would one last time. Robert
de Niro and Michael Chemino were preparing The Deer Hunter,
an epic film about a group of friends who work
in the steel mills of Pennsylvania and how their lives
were changed by their service in the Vietnam War. For
(23:42):
the role of Stan, a braggart who is always trying
to be a bigger man than he's capable of being.
Both wanted John Kazal As talks about his participation went on.
There was good news and bad news. The good news
was that if John was in the film, Meryl Streep
agreed to play the rather uninteresting role of Linda, a
(24:03):
girlfriend to one of the main characters, in order to
stay close to John during the shooting Jimino offered a letter,
developed the character and add more depth to it. The
bad news was that John was dying. The cancer had
metastasized to his bones. Despite trying different protocols, the prognosis
remained grim. The studio backing the film opposed his casting,
(24:26):
worried that he would die before his scenes were finished.
It was only the united front of Cimino, de Niro
and Streep, insisting that he stay in the film or
they'd resign, that convinced the studio to relent. The shooting
schedule was drawn up, putting all of John scenes. It's
the first to be filmed in the hot June of
nineteen seventy seven. They began shooting the cold autumnal scenes
(24:49):
that would open the movie. For the fifth and final time.
John Kazal would show actors everywhere how it's done. When
it's done to perfection, there is no hint of his
personal struggles. His Stanley once again is a fully drawn
human being, alive and compelling and the most fascinating character
(25:09):
on the screen. Once his and Meryl scenes were wrapped,
they retreated to their loft in New York City, where
John tried to remain optimistic in the face of his deterioration.
Early in nineteen seventy eight, it was clear that he
wouldn't beat the cancer as he had predicted. About three
am on the morning of March thirteenth, John died. He
(25:33):
would not live to see his final film be nominated
for the Golden Globe and win the Oscar for Best Picture,
nor would he see the woman he once called the
greatest actress in the history of the world received her
first Oscar nomination. I've come to regard John rather like
the Vincent van Gogh of acting. Vincent worked obsessively at
(25:55):
his art during his short lifetime, largely without recognition. While
John routinely drew glowing reviews for his stage work, film
critics largely ignored him, and, as mentioned, he was passed
over for rewards. I've long thought that was because no
one knew he was acting. Far from the isolated, damaged
(26:16):
losers he portrayed, John was a gregarious, curious, funny man
who had a type of charisma that drew others to him.
But he, like Vincent, had a singular vision that created
art that confounded the viewer. John's ability to access the
deepest pain of his characters gave them an uncomfortable vulnerability
(26:38):
that made us wonder if we should be watching. His
art disturbed us, but in a way that compelled us
to keep looking. And Like Vincent, John's notoriety has grown
throughout the decades. Six years after he died, the McGinn
Kazal Theater was dedicated in New York to him and
his close friend, the actor Walter McGinn, who had died
(26:59):
the year for John. In two thousand and nine, the
filmmaker Richard Shepherd directed a documentary appropriately short called I
Knew It Was You, Rediscovering John Kazzal. The publicity from
the film generated scores of appreciative essays. Then, in twenty fifteen,
a Czech film festival celebrated John's legacy at their fiftieth
(27:23):
anniversary by running that documentary along with The Godfather Part
two and Dog Day Afternoon. That was the same year
I published my book A Small Perfection, John Kazzal in
the Art of Acting. It coincided with the eightieth anniversary
of John's birth. I had by then watched the five
(27:43):
films in which John had acted over and over for years,
and had realized that, aside from being five of the
best portrayals in screen history. There were lessons in John's
work every actor should learn. It's intentionally not a biography,
although it has some biographical notes, but I found myself
(28:04):
reluctant to delve too deeply into his personal life. John,
like Vincent before him, was an artist. If you really
want to know an artist, you look at his work.
That's where you'll find the truest biography. John and Vincent
both had their legacies deepened by premature death. They were
halted at perfection and left us without explanation of their
(28:28):
art nor a need for it. John Kazzal left us
at the height of his promise, with all of the
anticipation of his next appearance still thick in the air.
All of us who love acting and love his acting
will try forever to describe that deep, intangible essence of
John Kazzal. If you want to know about him, watch
(28:51):
us five films. The devotion, generosity, humanity, and responsibility he
displayed as an actor is all we really need to
see in order to know the man he was. The
rest is just a mystery, But mystery is what keeps
us asking questions, and asking questions is what keeps actors
(29:12):
Alive and a terrific job on the production. The editing
by our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to
John Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John Kazal
and The Art of Acting. And I was a young
actor in the early nineteen eighties for very short time,
and I got to see what John did up close
(29:34):
and personal. I saw him perform on the stage. I
saw Paccino perform on the stage with him. And I
got to see Meryl Streep in measure for measure. These
were things you saw as a young actor, and you
knew these were God given talents. And none more irrespected
and revered than John the Vincent Van Gogh of acting,
both men's body of work shortened by death, the story
(29:58):
of an actor's actor. All five of his films nominated
for Best Picture Oscars. John Cazale his story here on
Our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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