June 2, 2025 • 9 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, Thomas Bennett was a master salesman and visionary businessman who, alongside legendary gun designer John Moses Browning, helped build Winchester into one of the most iconic firearms brands in American history. Here's the story of this forgotten, but all-important, man
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we continue with our American stories, and here to
tell another great American story is our own. Ashley Libinski
a frequent contributor here at our American Stories. He is
the former co host of Discovery Channel's Master of Arms,
the former curator in charge of the Cody Firearms Museum,
and she's the co founder of the University of Wyoming
(00:33):
College of Laws Firearms Research Center. Here's Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
A lot of people know the name Winchester. They know
the winname Winchester as the quote unquote gun that won
the West. They know the name from any Western movie
that's ever been made since Buffalo Bill filmed some of
his work. So the Winchester name is so prominent sometimes
you forget that there are other people behind the company name.
(01:05):
And one of the people who was attributed with making
Winchester really what it was was a guy named Thomas Bennett.
Now that's a name you probably don't recognize, but he
basically built the company into what it was. He went
to Yale, very smart, he was a college wrestler. So
Thomas Bennett was a very kind of big, stocky individual,
(01:28):
and he was an avid sportsman and loved fishing, hunting,
all of that stuff, so, you know, perfect fit for Winchester, right,
And this is a really interesting part of his backstory
is that he's actually a first lieutenant in an African
American regiment during the Civil War, and so he ends
up starting for Winchester in eighteen seventy and he's an
apprentice engineer, so he starts kind of bottom of the
(01:50):
totem pole. Oliver Winchester came from a clothing background, so
he's not a gun guy. He's the businessman. He really
liked Bennett. He you know, was priming him for our
leadership positions within the company because Bennett also proved to
be a very good businessman. What nobody anticipated, though, was
(02:11):
the fact that Oliver Winchester's sons would pass away. But
Thomas Bennett does marry his daughter Jenny in eighteen seventy two,
and some say that they met at a company picnic.
So Bennett becomes Winchester's foreign affairs guy initially, So he
becomes the guy that is all over the world and
he brings Winchester kind of into the global market. You know.
(02:34):
It's part of the reason why everybody knows Winchester is
because what a lot of people don't realize is early
on in Winchester history, they almost go bankrupt like a
lot and so you see successful successful, you know, but
it's actually a company that really needs some help early on.
And so he helps with that and takes the name Winchester,
and he goes around the world and he promotes the brand.
He promotes the company. The one thing that happens though,
(02:55):
during this time period is that he misses his family.
I mean, how cute is that, right, And so he
writes love letters to his wife for fifty years. He
calls her my dear girl in the letters. But what's
funny is he recognizes that he's kind of rough on
the whole love letter thing early on. So in his
first love letter, he literally writes, this is the first
love letter that I have ever wrote, So you must
(03:18):
not despair because there is not much love in it.
So he improves upon his abilities over the years. But
all of this travel really, you know, takes a toll
on him, and he misses his daughter's first steps. And
he also keeps it a little spicy, you know. You
can't you know, sext during that period. But he found
a way to communicate overseas with his wife and so
(03:39):
in one instance he was in France, I believe, and
he bought her this beautiful dress and he sent it
to her, and he wrote the letter that very lovingly says,
you got better writing right, very lovingly says, wouldn't I
like to see you in it? Or indeed out of it?
My dear girl. I feel like when you think about
historical figures, that is not how you see historical figures.
(04:02):
But they were people too, right. So Thomas Bennett is
a wonderful businessman and he makes Winchester what it is.
But he also is credited with finding one of the
greatest gun designers of all time, and that is John
Moses Browning, and he hears about them, and he ultimately
is the person that pays for Browning's first design and
quickly another design, and Browning becomes almost synonymous with Winchester nowadays.
(04:27):
Most people didn't not necessarily know his name back then,
but so many Winchester guns for twenty years almost are
initial designs by Browning that come in house that he
basically sells the patent rights to, and then Winchester has
the ability to decide if they're gonna make it or not,
and then they have their gun house designers do that
and then they push, you know, they push the product
out on the commercial market. He's also such a strong
(04:51):
headed individual that he's the reason that Browning and him
and their relationship. So in around I think around like
it's hearn of the twentieth centuries, like nineteen oh two,
nineteen oh three. Browning has already developed this really advanced
piece of technology and he brings it to Bennett and
he says, I want a royalty because he knows this
is going to be huge, right, and so Bennett says, no,
(05:14):
thank you, we're good. And so that was it. I mean,
the Browning relationship was totally over and it didn't rekindle
until World War One, right before Browning passes away. But
it's this twenty year relationship that ends because of a
change in contract. And Bennett does not mince his words
with how he feels about Browning. After the fact, he
(05:36):
writes a letter to the salespeople that we call in
my field, this sour Grapes letter, and it basically says
that John Moses Browning is not that big of a deal,
that Winchester had to modify the guns so much in
house to make them available for the commercial market. He
calls John Moses's brother Matthew a difficult proposition, that's a
(05:59):
direct quote, and then basically at the end of the
letter says that they're going to be much better off
without Browning, and he can't say the same for Browning
without Winchester. But if you do know that history, you
know that is not how that goes. But I digress.
That's a great anecdote to see that Bennett was this
powerhouse within the company and he's trying to retire by
nineteen ten, and he wants to keep it in the
(06:21):
family like Oliver Winchester did. And so one of the
people that is now starting to take on the reins
is his son, Winchester Bennett. And like the little sneaky
way of involving that family name, but Winchester Bennett is
not as qualified as his father. His father has very
high expectations for him, and Winchester Bennett is politely phrased,
(06:43):
he's sickly and he's also prone to anxiety severe nervous disorders,
and so he kind of goes in and out of
the hospital makes some bad decisions for Winchester and so
as a result, while Thomas Bennett is trying to you know,
build this house and spend his golden years with his wife,
whom he loves so much. He's kind of having to
step in and out of his role with Winchester, and
(07:06):
so Bennett ends up staying involved. He actually stays with
Winchester on and off and has his fifty year anniversary
with the company and they call it Bennett Day. So
you can see that even though things aren't always as good,
that people still have a very strong respect for him.
But what ends up happening is after the war World
(07:27):
War One, they think they need to diversify in order
to keep the company afloat, and so one of the
decisions that is made is that they will go into
the retail market. So they sell figure skates, they sell
after shave, they sell all kinds of things to try
to keep the money afloat. But the bankers are already
getting involved. Things are going south, and I think to me,
(07:49):
one of the saddest things that happens is right before
Thomas Bennett's wife dies, she ends up signing over the
rest of her shares to the bank. You know, the
man who built the company basically has to come back
to see the company fall, and he passes away at
eighty six on August thirtieth, which is six months before
the company goes into receivership in January of nineteen thirty one.
(08:11):
And the story behind Winchester after that is they get
bought out by a guy named Owen, and Olin still
owns the company today. So when you see the company
Winchester Ammunition, that is Owen, which is the most closely
connected to the original Winchester company. When you see Winchester
names associated with anything else, like the Winchester Repeating Arms Company,
(08:32):
that is by Browning, which is also affiliated with a
Belgian based company called fn and they license the name
Winchester from Ollen. So once Olin gets a hold of it,
they don't let go and they still have it today.
And when you see Winchester Ammunition, you're looking at the
closest company to the original one.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And a terrific job on the editing, production and storytelling
by our own Greg Hangler, and a special thanks to
Ashley Lebinski for bringing her passion, her enthusiasasm for firearms
and my goodness, what story she tells us. And we
learned about the man behind the Man or the woman
behind the man is sometimes is the case as well.
The man behind the man that powered Winchester, and that
(09:13):
is Thomas Bennett A. Yaley, a college wrestler, loved fishing
and hunting, and he was the first lieutenant in an
African American regiment in this Civil War. A fascinating guy,
and he hustled and traveled around the country to keep
Winchester in business. We've also done a story about Browning,
another force behind the Winchester brand as well. The story
(09:37):
of a great American brand and the person whose name
you didn't know who powered it. Here on our American
Story
And we continue with our American stories, and here to
tell another great American story is our own. Ashley Libinski
a frequent contributor here at our American Stories. He is
the former co host of Discovery Channel's Master of Arms,
the former curator in charge of the Cody Firearms Museum,
and she's the co founder of the University of Wyoming
(00:33):
College of Laws Firearms Research Center. Here's Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
A lot of people know the name Winchester. They know
the winname Winchester as the quote unquote gun that won
the West. They know the name from any Western movie
that's ever been made since Buffalo Bill filmed some of
his work. So the Winchester name is so prominent sometimes
you forget that there are other people behind the company name.
(01:05):
And one of the people who was attributed with making
Winchester really what it was was a guy named Thomas Bennett.
Now that's a name you probably don't recognize, but he
basically built the company into what it was. He went
to Yale, very smart, he was a college wrestler. So
Thomas Bennett was a very kind of big, stocky individual,
(01:28):
and he was an avid sportsman and loved fishing, hunting,
all of that stuff, so, you know, perfect fit for Winchester, right,
And this is a really interesting part of his backstory
is that he's actually a first lieutenant in an African
American regiment during the Civil War, and so he ends
up starting for Winchester in eighteen seventy and he's an
apprentice engineer, so he starts kind of bottom of the
(01:50):
totem pole. Oliver Winchester came from a clothing background, so
he's not a gun guy. He's the businessman. He really
liked Bennett. He you know, was priming him for our
leadership positions within the company because Bennett also proved to
be a very good businessman. What nobody anticipated, though, was
(02:11):
the fact that Oliver Winchester's sons would pass away. But
Thomas Bennett does marry his daughter Jenny in eighteen seventy two,
and some say that they met at a company picnic.
So Bennett becomes Winchester's foreign affairs guy initially, So he
becomes the guy that is all over the world and
he brings Winchester kind of into the global market. You know.
(02:34):
It's part of the reason why everybody knows Winchester is
because what a lot of people don't realize is early
on in Winchester history, they almost go bankrupt like a
lot and so you see successful successful, you know, but
it's actually a company that really needs some help early on.
And so he helps with that and takes the name Winchester,
and he goes around the world and he promotes the brand.
He promotes the company. The one thing that happens though,
(02:55):
during this time period is that he misses his family.
I mean, how cute is that, right, And so he
writes love letters to his wife for fifty years. He
calls her my dear girl in the letters. But what's
funny is he recognizes that he's kind of rough on
the whole love letter thing early on. So in his
first love letter, he literally writes, this is the first
love letter that I have ever wrote, So you must
(03:18):
not despair because there is not much love in it.
So he improves upon his abilities over the years. But
all of this travel really, you know, takes a toll
on him, and he misses his daughter's first steps. And
he also keeps it a little spicy, you know. You
can't you know, sext during that period. But he found
a way to communicate overseas with his wife and so
(03:39):
in one instance he was in France, I believe, and
he bought her this beautiful dress and he sent it
to her, and he wrote the letter that very lovingly says,
you got better writing right, very lovingly says, wouldn't I
like to see you in it? Or indeed out of it?
My dear girl. I feel like when you think about
historical figures, that is not how you see historical figures.
(04:02):
But they were people too, right. So Thomas Bennett is
a wonderful businessman and he makes Winchester what it is.
But he also is credited with finding one of the
greatest gun designers of all time, and that is John
Moses Browning, and he hears about them, and he ultimately
is the person that pays for Browning's first design and
quickly another design, and Browning becomes almost synonymous with Winchester nowadays.
(04:27):
Most people didn't not necessarily know his name back then,
but so many Winchester guns for twenty years almost are
initial designs by Browning that come in house that he
basically sells the patent rights to, and then Winchester has
the ability to decide if they're gonna make it or not,
and then they have their gun house designers do that
and then they push, you know, they push the product
out on the commercial market. He's also such a strong
(04:51):
headed individual that he's the reason that Browning and him
and their relationship. So in around I think around like
it's hearn of the twentieth centuries, like nineteen oh two,
nineteen oh three. Browning has already developed this really advanced
piece of technology and he brings it to Bennett and
he says, I want a royalty because he knows this
is going to be huge, right, and so Bennett says, no,
(05:14):
thank you, we're good. And so that was it. I mean,
the Browning relationship was totally over and it didn't rekindle
until World War One, right before Browning passes away. But
it's this twenty year relationship that ends because of a
change in contract. And Bennett does not mince his words
with how he feels about Browning. After the fact, he
(05:36):
writes a letter to the salespeople that we call in
my field, this sour Grapes letter, and it basically says
that John Moses Browning is not that big of a deal,
that Winchester had to modify the guns so much in
house to make them available for the commercial market. He
calls John Moses's brother Matthew a difficult proposition, that's a
(05:59):
direct quote, and then basically at the end of the
letter says that they're going to be much better off
without Browning, and he can't say the same for Browning
without Winchester. But if you do know that history, you
know that is not how that goes. But I digress.
That's a great anecdote to see that Bennett was this
powerhouse within the company and he's trying to retire by
nineteen ten, and he wants to keep it in the
(06:21):
family like Oliver Winchester did. And so one of the
people that is now starting to take on the reins
is his son, Winchester Bennett. And like the little sneaky
way of involving that family name, but Winchester Bennett is
not as qualified as his father. His father has very
high expectations for him, and Winchester Bennett is politely phrased,
(06:43):
he's sickly and he's also prone to anxiety severe nervous disorders,
and so he kind of goes in and out of
the hospital makes some bad decisions for Winchester and so
as a result, while Thomas Bennett is trying to you know,
build this house and spend his golden years with his wife,
whom he loves so much. He's kind of having to
step in and out of his role with Winchester, and
(07:06):
so Bennett ends up staying involved. He actually stays with
Winchester on and off and has his fifty year anniversary
with the company and they call it Bennett Day. So
you can see that even though things aren't always as good,
that people still have a very strong respect for him.
But what ends up happening is after the war World
(07:27):
War One, they think they need to diversify in order
to keep the company afloat, and so one of the
decisions that is made is that they will go into
the retail market. So they sell figure skates, they sell
after shave, they sell all kinds of things to try
to keep the money afloat. But the bankers are already
getting involved. Things are going south, and I think to me,
(07:49):
one of the saddest things that happens is right before
Thomas Bennett's wife dies, she ends up signing over the
rest of her shares to the bank. You know, the
man who built the company basically has to come back
to see the company fall, and he passes away at
eighty six on August thirtieth, which is six months before
the company goes into receivership in January of nineteen thirty one.
(08:11):
And the story behind Winchester after that is they get
bought out by a guy named Owen, and Olin still
owns the company today. So when you see the company
Winchester Ammunition, that is Owen, which is the most closely
connected to the original Winchester company. When you see Winchester
names associated with anything else, like the Winchester Repeating Arms Company,
(08:32):
that is by Browning, which is also affiliated with a
Belgian based company called fn and they license the name
Winchester from Ollen. So once Olin gets a hold of it,
they don't let go and they still have it today.
And when you see Winchester Ammunition, you're looking at the
closest company to the original one.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And a terrific job on the editing, production and storytelling
by our own Greg Hangler, and a special thanks to
Ashley Lebinski for bringing her passion, her enthusiasasm for firearms
and my goodness, what story she tells us. And we
learned about the man behind the Man or the woman
behind the man is sometimes is the case as well.
The man behind the man that powered Winchester, and that
(09:13):
is Thomas Bennett A. Yaley, a college wrestler, loved fishing
and hunting, and he was the first lieutenant in an
African American regiment in this Civil War. A fascinating guy,
and he hustled and traveled around the country to keep
Winchester in business. We've also done a story about Browning,
another force behind the Winchester brand as well. The story
(09:37):
of a great American brand and the person whose name
you didn't know who powered it. Here on our American
Story
Host
Lee Habeeb
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