August 14, 2025 • 36 mins
When Allison Sowle showed up to a model casting with oozing eczema and no makeup, she didn’t expect to be chosen out of 30,000 people. But her message was clear: “I’m proud to be myself.” In this episode, Allison talks about claiming space in the modeling world, surviving without insurance, and the beauty of showing up as you are. Plus, we look back at some of the most bizarre and misguided psoriasis treatments in history.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Holly Fry and this is Season two of Our Skin,
a personal discovery podcast. Today we are joined by a
guest who brings fierce confidence, joyful self expression, and powerful
advocacy to everything she does, Alison's Soul. Alison is a model,
actor and creator who has been open about her journey
(00:31):
with psoriasis, sharing not just the challenges, but the moments
of pride, play and radical self love that have shaped
her relationship with her skin. Whether she's walking the runway
for inclusive fashion brands or starring in national ad campaigns,
Alison is helping shift the conversation around visible skin conditions.
(00:51):
Her message is clear, your skin does not define you,
and there is beauty, freedom, and power in embracing your
body exactly as it is. Allison's work as a model, performer,
and advocate create space for others to feel seen, represented
and celebrated. Today, we will talk to Alison about her
creative work, the impact of representation, and what it means
(01:14):
to claim visibility on your own terms. Alison, Welcome to
Our Skin. We are so delighted to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, Holly.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I am honored and I feel very privileged to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
The first place I want to start for the beginning
of our discussion is also the beginning for your journey
with psoriasis. Can you take us back to when you
were first diagnosed and tell us what those early years
were like for you emotionally and physically.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was actually officially only diagnosed recently in twenty twenty one,
So for years I was diagnosed with exema. So I
have both and both have been confirmed with separate and
multiple diagnoses. You know, over the year years and twenty
twenty one, a new dermatologist I was seeing, she said,
let's test you for psoriasis, Let's test you for basically
(02:08):
everything under the sun. So we did a lot of
patch testing and we did some blood draws, and she said, okay, well,
you're one of the most rare cases I've seen and
with egzma and ssoriasis, and there are so many people
out there that have both. So I'd love that I'm
here to shine light on my early experiences with psoriasis
(02:29):
and exma both. Knowing that I had this autoimmune condition,
it really explained, Oh, this is why sometimes I'm just
so exhausted or this is why sometimes I don't have
an appetite or whatever it may be. So it's just
really eye opening and having to go through tons and
tons of doctors just to get that one diagnosis. In
(02:49):
twenty twenty one, I had to advocate for myself, and
I knew that something else was going on other than
ezma because there was just so many different symptoms I
was experiencing. So just having a doctor that really is
your advocate, when you do find somebody that really has
their heart in it and really looks you in your
eyes and says, you know we're going to help you.
You know you don't have to suffer like this, I
(03:11):
think it's just really key. And I would say to
anybody like, don't stop searching until you find those people
who are on your team and do truly care.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You evidence a phenomena that we have seen in I
think every single guest, no one is like I had
a problem. I went to the doctor, they told me
I had sorrisis. It's always this journey of meandering turns
and twists. I'm very thankful that you brought up that
you also experience exzema and kind of have this layered
scenario that is very unusual. How does having these two
(03:45):
different things change how you manage each of them, because
I imagine in some cases what you would do for
one might be contry indicated for the other.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, that too.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So there's that point where the method tre say, and
the folic acid for psoriasis, you know sometimes that's prescribed
that can sometimes flare up ezema. It also made mysiasis
like a little bit more like weepy rather than crusty.
And it's like a little bit graphic. Oh, we're going
to get so graphic.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, don't even worry about it.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's just so bad. So for anybody with skin issues
that's listening to this and that's here with us, like
we're with you, You're not alone. There's a lot of
mental health issues that go into this. Because I was
calling out a work at the time. I was working
retail at a department store, and I couldn't go to
work because my eggzema and psoriasis was like combining and
(04:41):
like turning into this like ooze, like all body ooze,
and so it's like affects your mental health and your paycheck,
and it's a whole body experience. It's definitely not just
the skin.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
By the time you found this doctor that heard you
and you mentioned doing like patch tests and stuff. What
was that diagnosis process like where they finally realized like, oh, no,
this is a two headed monster, not just one that
we're dealing with. Like, what were the steps that you
had to go through.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They took a patch of skin off of my thigh,
just like the tiniest little patch of all the layers.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Of my skin.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
They also like the physical examination of looking and I
think a lot of doctors they kind of get confused
because eggzema crisis can look the same a little bit.
For decades and years. It was just oh, this is
this is egment. You have allergies, you have allergies, so
this is eggzement, which it is. I do have allergies
and sometimes it is eggzema. From like twenty ten to
(05:44):
like twenty twenty, so like a decade, I had rashes
on my foot and I was just wondering myself, like
I've never had this as a child with eggzema. But
I just thought, oh, it just is new eggzema. So
they took the patch test, they took some blood tests,
and then it was just as simple as them saying, yeah,
this is psoriasis off the patch test, but just knowing like, hey,
(06:04):
I have psoriasis and we need to treat it. It
just helps with the diagnosis and then it also helps
with the doctors knowing what to prescribe.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I like how you went years and years consulting doctors
and you just needed that one person to be like, hey,
there's the simple test we can do here.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, skin biopsy. Right, the word just came to me.
And all of this is out of pocket, by the way,
like I didn't have insurance at this time. Then there's
another there's another prong of this, which is the affordability
in this country. Is like with skin problems, people kind
of just brush it off, like, oh, you don't have
heart failure, you have skin condition. So it's like live
(06:45):
with it, deal with it, figure it out yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I want to pivot a little bit to talking about
some of your work because you model, which of course
involves all kinds of visibility literally, yes, visibly, emotionally. It's
the lot of visibility. So one I just want to
know how did you get into modeling, How did you
start down that path?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
My mom has put a camera in front of my
face since I was a baby like video camera. I
was a nineties baby, so just the camquarder was in
my face all the time. I'm so used to it.
But I actually didn't start professionally modeling until I was
about twenty three, so not young. You know a lot
(07:28):
of girls they start when they're thirteen or twelve. I
started when I was twenty three, and I was in
a corporate role and I was in transportation and logistics,
and I was just in my apartment pool with a
bikini that I purchased from the model. Her name's Ashley Graham.
Do you know who she is?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So, yeah, she's an international A list the number one model.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I just love her.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I love her stunningly paint gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, her beauty just radiates inside and out, and so
it's just she's just the best. So I posted a
picture of me in a bikini in her bikini line
in my apartment pool, like you know, nothing fancy. My
friend took the picture and she reposted me, and that's
how I jumped from like one hundred followers to thousands
(08:17):
of followers. And I decided I'm going to quit my
job and buy a new car and drive out to
La and just come with five hundred dollars and see
what happens. And then I went to casting in twenty
twenty four in January for Good American. Thirty thousand people
applied for this casting. And I showed up to this
(08:38):
casting on an early morning. I had eggzema all over
my neck, I had psoriasis on my hands. It was
pouring rain, but I said I'm here. I made it
seven hours waiting in line, and I was in the
audition for less than five minutes and I went to
the head of HR. I didn't know who she was.
She was just the first judge available, and I said,
I'm here because I have no makeup on, I have
(09:01):
soaking wet hair, I have eggzema and crisis all over me.
Like it's been, you know, a crazy week, and I
just moved to LA two months ago, and I'm here
for this casting. I'm proud to be myself, like everybody's perfect,
just the way they are. And she was like, we
love you and literally like I had like red oozing
eggzema on my neck. And then a month later, I
(09:23):
get this email saying you're part of our Good squad
along with six other girls out of thirty thousand people.
I was like, what, so that's how I got started
in modeling, And yeah, here are the.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Two things that I think of immediately. One, this is
such a classic and perfect example of confidence is more
beautiful than any genetics, right, Like, that's what the draw
was for you. But Two do you ever wonder I
wonder listening to your story if like, how many man
hours and how much mental energy was spent and possibly
(09:57):
wasted with the think tank of people go, I don't
know how much do we photoshop they're red? How much
do we allow and especially when they want to be authentic?
There is a delicate balance there in the consumer market,
which is really interesting. There is also this other aspect
of having a job like that, because visibility can be
very double edged, right, There's an empowering aspect to it,
(10:20):
but it is also very exhausting for most people. How
do you balance that? How do you decide when you're like, yep,
I'm going to show up publicly. I'm going to put
myself out there today versus the days when you're like,
you know what, we're going to prioritize personal piece today.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
So I'm very much a pull up my bootstops and like,
use the privileges and blessings.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
That I have. Stop wallowing away about your skin.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
If you feel okay, like I need to show up
because I need to show up for every person that's
not showing up for themselves, I need to show up
and show them. You can be confident, Like everybody has
their instius curities. Don't let this block you from your
destiny and your dreams. Don't let this hold you back.
When that physical pain comes in, when I can barely
(11:10):
move my neck, or you know, when I can barely
move my legs because I'm just crusted all over, That's
when I decide, hey, I need to just take a
day of rest, hydrate myself, make sure I'm constantly staying moisturized.
Those are the times when I definitely take time and
(11:30):
slow down to heal. There have been instances where hey,
we want a model with egzema or you know, crisis,
just usually casting people, and I'll have to say, oh,
right now, I only have it on my legs and
they're like, oh, well, we wanted it on your face.
I'm like, oh, I just cleared that up. So we
just have to control what we can control, which is
our attitude and putting ourselves out there when we feel
(11:53):
you know good.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So we've been talking a lot about your modeling career.
But if I have my research correct, you're like anisunce woman.
You also are an opera singer. Yeah that's correct. And
yeah and even get me started, and you make jewelry
and you're an artist.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And singing is my passion. Like singing, it's a blessing.
It's a gift my singing voice. And I would say
my singing voice has helped me get through my struggles
with x menz risis because it's like, Okay, I have
a beautiful singing voice. It's like kind of like my buddy,
like my friend. And then I thought to myself, you
know what, like I still have a purpose, like I
(12:35):
have the singing voice, and like I can do something
with it.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, you can add to the list of things that
you do that you are also a psychic, because my
next question was going to be is that a place
you go for solace and to get a little bit
of self care and like self healing.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
One hundred thousand percent, like ultimately, and like I think
my biggest fear like when I get sick, like when
COVID hit. I was sick and I lost my voice,
and my biggest fear is losing my vocal abilities. Knowing
like I have something and it's unique and it's unique
to me, and I'm the only person in the world
that has my singing voice, and so it's like definitely
(13:12):
a comforting thing to have, and so I'm very blessed.
Like I don't take it for granted at all, And
I don't really share a lot of my singing just
because it's so personal and so close to my heart.
And I'm like, I can be half naked on the internet,
but once you want me to start singing, like, I
don't care if people are like you suck, Like I
don't care. People can say whatever they want because I
(13:33):
have such a high confidence and like nothing can break it,
Like my confidence truly comes from within, but it's about
me just being protective of it.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I also want to talk, though, a little bit about
an aspect of you that's very nurturing, because you have
built this very thoughtful, really welcoming online presence that people
are very drawn to. And I'm curious how engaging with
like a kronous illness community online has impacted your journey
and what you have learned from those people and what
(14:04):
you take away on the daily from that experience.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
It's definitely empowering and like great to have a united front.
I just remember times like a couple of years ago,
I was out and about and my hands were covered
in EGMA and it was right when the pandemic was hitting,
and this guy that I knew came up to me.
He's like, you got the coronavirus and like looking at
my hands and like disgusted. I had another person next
(14:28):
to me that I didn't even know. They have crisis,
and they like read him for filth. They were like,
how dare you? And so surrounding yourself and like being
intentional with who you're reaching out to and why, and
like I've reached out on the internet like Instagram, social
media whatever. They said, Oh, we have egsma, we have crisis,
And I hit follow every time and like follow, follow, Follow,
(14:49):
I'm gonna follow all of you so we can be united.
Having that community like really saved me. Having people that
don't have skin conditions that came over to my house
and like did my when I couldn't even move my
arms up and down in my neck because it was
so tight and itchy and oozy and cracking, I couldn't
do anything. It's just good to know, like I have
(15:09):
my group of people that know what I'm going through
and we're not alone, and we're all here to support
each other.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
H I love it so much. I am so delighted
by you and now and Allison's soul.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Fam.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I want to know what's next for you though, whether
that is in your advocacy or your creative work. Listen,
we know the voice is coming or something that we
haven't seen yet.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So I have a couple campaigns for modeling that haven't
come out yet, and I'm so excited about them. One
is a beauty brand and then the other is an
international technology brand. So the beauty brand. That's a huge
accomplishment for me, just because I thought I could never
do a beauty modeling, which is when they get really
close up and take a picture of your eyelashes, they
(15:49):
get really close up and take a picture of like
your lip and your nose or like your ear. I
thought I could never do that because of my eggsamone skin.
But guess what this beauty brand was like, No, you're
perfect and that's the only tree that you have. And
that's how I think I've gotten where I am is
just constantly thinking and like putting the action behind that
mindset of like there are opportunities out there for me,
Like rejection is divine redirection getting you close to your
(16:15):
aligned purpose.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I'm glad you talked about abundance because we have an
abundance of history to talk about, and it gets super
duper weird. I know you are worried about gross. Don't
worry about that because when we look back on the
ways that people have tried to treat psoriasis in the past,
who we get to see a lot of strange treatments
and some that are really super duper gross. Modern times
(16:39):
are not immune from our judgment either, And we're going
to get into all of that right after we take
a little break. So today's history is gonna test your
(17:01):
gag reflex. How far can we go? Because when it
comes to the history of skin treatments, humans have tried
everything right. We've done boiled snakes, We've done mercury savs,
we've done cow heer and cocktails. For people living with
chronic skin diseases like coriasis, that path to relief has
always been tangled in myth and desperation and sometimes straight
(17:24):
up pseudoscience, and believe it or not, some of those
strange cures did not end in the eighteenth century, so
don't get cocky. They're still happening today.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I'm sure. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I know you said it was a long road to
find someone who actually understood that you were actually dealing
with psoriasis. But did you along the path ever try
anything that today you now chuckle at, like, oh, that
was not gonna help me. Ever.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
So this is a really common treatment for sariasis, especially
when there's like an infection or if there's a suspected infection,
and it's a bleach path. So you fill up water
and I think you just pour like a whole gallon
of bleach.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
In the bath. I don't think I would ever want
to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Again, one hundred percent. Thought you were going to say
cold tar, and I'm like, people are still doing it.
For today's story, though, we're going to start not in
any modern clinic or wellness spa, but in fact, in
the foggy streets of seventeen hundreds London. In seventeen fourteen,
an English physician named Daniel Turner published a widely read
(18:27):
medical text called demorbus Cutaneous that's on skin diseases, and
in this text he distinguishes two types of skin conditions,
so one that originates outwardly, like say an allergy, where
an external stimulus is causing skin conditions, and ones that
cause changes to the skin but originate inwardly. He was
(18:51):
kind of onto something an outward condition with an internal
cause describes psoriasis, right. I mean, I find this kind
of remarkable because in seven veteen fourteen he was distinguishing
between inward and outward causes for things that he observed
on his patient's skin. And that's about one hundred and
fifty years before the concept of germ theory was introduced,
(19:13):
and we only officially figured out that psoriasis was an
autoimmune disease sixty to seventy years ago, so he was
way ahead of the curve. Turner did become a physician,
but he actually started out as a barber surgeon, So
this requires a little explanation if people don't know this.
At the time, surgeons were actually in the barber's guild
(19:34):
or the barber's union. Barber surgeon was the title. They
were multi hyphenates, so this is a profession separate from
being a physician. They were considered crafts people artisans, but
not doctors. So physicians were more academic. They could diagnose
things and they would treat people, but the messy parts
(19:55):
of everyday medical needs that was for the barber surgeons
to deal with. So a barber surgeon might come around
and cut your hair. They could pull your teeth if
you needed them taken out. They could do whatever other
minor surgery you might require, total full service in a way,
it's kind of like an original general practitioner, right, yeah, yeah. Thankfully,
(20:18):
In historical terms, by the time we got to the
mid eighteen hundreds, surgery became a lot more civilized and
less frightening thanks to things like anesthesia, which people had
been experiencing surgery without it before then, as well as antiseptics.
It was also incorporated into medical school curricula, which is
what led to the merger of physicians and surgeons under
(20:41):
one umbrella, and then the barbers were then left to
worry about hair. Dentistry formed its own little path as well,
So to go back to Daniel Turner and his book
on skin diseases, one of the most shocking treatments that
he recommends for psariasis is a bra made from boiled vipers,
(21:02):
like literally a snake stew.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
He had some other ideas. He also used mercury salves
on his patients, almost certainly unaware of the toxic effects
of heavy metals. But the thing is these were not
outliers at the time. They were considered very serious, completely
legitimate medical interventions, and as grotesque as that all sounds.
Turner was building on a tradition that really goes back centuries.
(21:29):
Ancient Greek physicians like Galen thought that illness could be
driven out of the body by drawing it through the skin,
and that certain animal substances, including snake parts, had these
cleansing properties. And other common historical treatments included things like
mashed onions not so bad, goat bile getting a little worse,
(21:52):
and brace yourself both human and animal feces.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh I knew that one was coming.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Roman texts actually described the use of urine as a
cleansing agent for wounds. That idea persisted through the Middle Ages,
when folk heelers would advise people to drink urine to
bathe in urine or to use it as a poultice
to treat all manner of ailments, including skin diseases. Some
of this was based on this now discredited idea called
(22:25):
the doctrine of signatures, and that claimed that substances that
resembled an ailing part of the body or organ could
also be the thing that cured that body part or organ.
So other times there was just a lot of superstition
mixed in with people being desperate for some help. So
I want to talk a little bit about the doctrine
of signatures because it is a source of ceaseless fascination
(22:47):
for me. The origins of it are deeply debated. Some
think that this idea that you can tell if a
plant will cure what ails you dates all the way
back to hippocratic medicine and ancient Greece. He definitely had
a belief that quote cures for human ills were divinely
revealed in nature, often through plants. So if you've ever
(23:10):
thought to yourself, like, hey, who was the first person
to try a mushroom so we know it's not poisonous,
it was these guys.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yes, Wow, it sounds really strategic and very promising.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
The thing that eventually discredited the doctrine of signatures is
that a lot of these treatments that it suggested in
this ideology, it suggested people approach treatment with poisoned people sometimes,
and that's something that you can't always tell when you
look at a plant, Oh, that plant's poisonous. So when
they're like, I don't know, it looks like a kidney,
give it a whirl, and then their patient doesn't make
(23:43):
it doesn't really help that ideology. So all of this
to say, our sixteen, seventeenth and eighteenth century doctors were
very into experimentation with the natural world and all of
the excrement and smelly onion salves that it had to offer.
(24:04):
And you may think that we have moved past that now,
and in a lot of ways we have, but there
is a catch. Even in the twenty first century, treatments
that sound a little bit more like magic than medicine
still find their way into the mainstream. It happens all
over the world on social media of all types, and
sometimes it can even come from a government. Get ready,
(24:27):
So in early twenty twenty one, not that far from
when you were actually finally getting your diagnosis, sort of
a yes, the Indian government's National Cow Protection Board decided
that they were going to host an examination. The subject was,
of course the cow, so that's right. There was this
national exam all about the cow, which is a sacred
(24:48):
animal to many people in India. And that may sound weird,
but they did it. They put together this voluntary online
exam that anyone could take. It was offered in fourteen languages.
So it was a huge, huge undertaking. This was like
a big project. This actually turned into a little bit
of a problem though, because some of the strangest parts
of this entire undertaking were in the study materials that
(25:12):
were provided by this government body. So this material promoted
the use of punchagava for disease prevention and treatment. And
punchagava is a traditional Ayurvedic mixture. It is composed of
five cow derived substances, so milk, curd, ghi which is clarified,
(25:35):
butter urine, and dung. And according to these materials circulated
by this official government body, daily consumption of this combination
that included all these substances could heal psoriasis and many
other things, even purportedly cancer. This fifty four page study
(25:58):
guide which was released ASF is no longer available online
and the test never actually ended up happening because there
was a lot of outcry from local doctors and even
in international media about some of the uncorroborated medical claims
and pseudoscience that were contained in the syllabus and study materials.
(26:19):
And remember, too, the COVID pandemic was kind of at
its height at this time, and it was actually thought
by some people that cow dung could cure that too.
There were videos that spread on news outlets. I'm sure
some of us saw them of people smearing themselves in
it as a protection against the virus that obviously is
not a functioning way to handle it. And reactions from
(26:39):
the medical community were very swift to all of this.
Indian dermatologists and scientists condemned the material as pseudoscience. Doctor
ja Jailal said quote, there is no concrete scientific evidence
that cow dung or urine work to boost immunity. But
the thing is that study pamphlet wasn't it like a
(27:00):
fringe thing. It had institutional backing, It was distributed to
thousands of students, and it highlights this troubling disconnect that
can happen between traditional beliefs and evidence based medicine and
the very real impact that that gap can have on
patient care. So we do, though, have to consider the
context of local sentiments because it does put a little
(27:24):
bit of this in a different light. Like we said,
a lot of people in India consider cow sacred, so
some of this information may have hit differently to parts
of that audience than it automatically does to the Western ear.
But we should not be patting ourselves on the back
at all. Western culture produces so much pseudoscience with regard
(27:44):
especially to caring for our skin. Celery juice, raw diets,
alkaline foods have all been touted online by influencers as
well as a lot of other stuff who claim that
they have cured their psoriasis with treatment that really has
no sense scientific backing. This, I imagine for someone like you
(28:04):
is the other flip of the coin. It's the other
side of putting yourself out there online. Do you have
experienced non doctors who try to help you or diagnose
you when you have a flare and you share about
it online.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yes, And I appreciate everybody's input, anybody who's willing to
give me their time and whatever they think will help.
And on the topic of cows, tallow is just it's
their fat and it really has helped my skin, just
keeping the cracking away, keeping the flare down. And it's
from Kansas where I'm from. It's Kansas Prairie fire farms
(28:42):
and it's their beef tallow and I love it and
I use it every day. So yeah, somebody suggested that
to me, a non doctor, and that has been really
helpful to me.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Have you ever had people though, who like kind of
tell you, I know what will work for you and
it is something where you're like, don't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Like people have told me like sit
in the sun all day, like the sun will heal you.
It's like, no, it won't heal me. It actually makes
mine a little worse, which I know that they sometimes
do say I was sitting in the sun really heals you,
And that might work for some people, but not me.
So yeah, just all the things like oh, smear honey
on you. I'm like, no, it's gonna make it worse.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
This also brings up the important point that we can
never assume that what works for one person is going
to work for somebody else. And of course, finding a
doctor is crucial, and finding an ally in a doctor
is crucial, and getting treatment for soriasis, even though as
evidenced by your story, can sometimes be a very long
road to find the right doctor for you. And yet
(29:43):
if you kind of zoom out historically across time and cultures,
the urge to treat skin disease with whatever tools are available,
even if they're very strange, starts to make a lot
of sense. Because siriasis isn't just a medical condition, it
is something that's visible. You have talked about how it
is stigmatized. It can profoundly affect how people see themselves
(30:06):
and how other people see them and throughout history this
also pertains to your story. People with chronic skin conditions
have often been mistaken for lepers, or they have been
accused of carrying a contagious disease. We have mentioned on
the show before that in some medieval towns, people with
psoriasis were required to wear special garments or even carry
(30:27):
bells so that people knew they were coming and could
get away. It really is bad, and even today, I mean,
people with psoriasis report being stared at or shamed, excluded
in social settings, or running into some weird person out
and about who wants to be rude. So it starts
to make sense when you think about how painful that
can be. That if someone anyone says that they have
(30:50):
a cure, a person might be predisposed to listen. And
then you try the leech paste, you eat the viper broth,
you consider whatever it is from the sacred cow that
might work. I like that you actually have a bovine
based thing that works for you.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Yes, I love cows, so thank you to the cows
that make my beef tallow.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Thanks. We have, of course, come a long way from
snake stews, although I mentioned some people still eat snakes too,
no judgment. Today, dermatologists have an arsenal of specifically and
scientifically validated treatments, things like topical steroids, phototherapy, and biologics
that can target specific immune pathways like AL seventeen or
(31:30):
TNF alpha. We've also talked about those this season, and
these treatments, if you get the right one, can really
bring dramatic relief. But the other thing is that access
to these treatments remains uneven. There's misinformation that persists, and
stigma still shapes the care that people receive. So when
(31:50):
we look at all of this, what can we take
away from this very strange and stinky piece of history.
First that the line between healing and harming has always
been a little bit blur, especially when science hasn't yet
caught up to the suffering that people are enduring. Second,
that every strange cure was born from a very human
(32:10):
impulse to soothe and to heal and to feel in
control of your own body. And then third that even today,
with all of our scientific progress, we still need to
ask hard questions about who gets access to evidence based
care and who still might get handed a vial of
snake oil. Because while we no longer believe we need
(32:31):
to rub feces on our skin, at least most of us,
there are, as your story evidences, a lot of people
who still feel like they are fighting their condition alone.
And that is not the case. So hopefully your story
will help with this.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
I hope so even just one person, If just one
single person is inspired by this thoughts, then I've done
my job.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
We do like to always end on a bright note
here on our skin, although also clearly we're happy to
indulged the delightfully gross here as well. Yeah, we have
thankfully come leaps and bounds in our understanding of treating psoriasis.
What one might have been prescribed even just five or
ten years ago might be vastly different today. And I
(33:14):
know it's only been like four years since you had
your official diagnosis, but have you experienced that already, like
treatments that were available to you getting more effective, or
some new thing being introduced that change things.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Definitely. I'm writing this remission that I'm in and literally
just using beef tallow and washing my face with soap
and water and you know, just regular seed to Phil
or Sarah v no fragrance. That's the sensitivity of mine too,
and kind of causes a lot of the rashes. I know,
I just recently talked about beef tallow, but I swear
it's like really helped me, and I use it every
(33:51):
day and every medicine for csoriasis an eggzema, and I
do use those when I do have a little bit
of flares or if I have patches of skin that
pop up on my face, I'll use them, But for
now I'm just using beef tallow.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
That's all I'm using.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I have two more questions for you. We ask these
of everybody at the end of every episode. So the
first is what suggestions do you have for people who
maybe don't have psoriasis themselves, but they love someone or
they're close to someone who does. How can they best
be a help to that person.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
First of all, never say stop itching, like people don't
understand we have to, like there's no way, like we can't.
Like it's if you have a flare up, like itching
is like the only thing that provides relief.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
A lot of the time, it's the itch that really helps.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I would say, just be supportive, tell them you're there
for them, and ask them if they need anything. I
know it sounds silly, but if their dishes are piling
up like that happens when you can't move yourself because
of your skin condition, let them know that you're there
for them, even if it's just a text and you're
across the world and you just want to say, hey,
I know you're suffering this, and I think that you
(35:01):
need to know that I'm here for you and we're
going to get through this together and like you will
survive this.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And last, but not least, if you could send a
message to listeners who are maybe grappling with their own
diagnosis and kind of coming to terms with it. What
would that message be.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I know it's hard to do, but don't panic, like
getting in your head and panicking thinking, oh my gosh,
like I'm never going to get.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
My life back? Is this my life forever?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Why me?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Why me?
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Change your mindset in your mind and that's where it
starts too. I will survive this, Like why not me?
Like this is happening for my benefit, Like this is
happening so that I have a unique ability to overcome
really hard times.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
You know, you know yourself best, and like that's what
I would tell people is just know that you are
valuable and you're worthy no matter what you have going
on with your health, and just really focus on your mindset.
Is the first place that your healing starts is. In
my opinion, Allison, you are such a darned delight. Thank
you so much for spending this time with me.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Likewise, Hollie, thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Our skim is hosted by myself, Holly Frye and executive
produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our executive producer and
writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, share
it with your friends. You can also listen and follow
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
I'm Holly Fry and this is Season two of Our Skin,
a personal discovery podcast. Today we are joined by a
guest who brings fierce confidence, joyful self expression, and powerful
advocacy to everything she does, Alison's Soul. Alison is a model,
actor and creator who has been open about her journey
(00:31):
with psoriasis, sharing not just the challenges, but the moments
of pride, play and radical self love that have shaped
her relationship with her skin. Whether she's walking the runway
for inclusive fashion brands or starring in national ad campaigns,
Alison is helping shift the conversation around visible skin conditions.
(00:51):
Her message is clear, your skin does not define you,
and there is beauty, freedom, and power in embracing your
body exactly as it is. Allison's work as a model, performer,
and advocate create space for others to feel seen, represented
and celebrated. Today, we will talk to Alison about her
creative work, the impact of representation, and what it means
(01:14):
to claim visibility on your own terms. Alison, Welcome to
Our Skin. We are so delighted to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, Holly.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I am honored and I feel very privileged to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
The first place I want to start for the beginning
of our discussion is also the beginning for your journey
with psoriasis. Can you take us back to when you
were first diagnosed and tell us what those early years
were like for you emotionally and physically.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was actually officially only diagnosed recently in twenty twenty one,
So for years I was diagnosed with exema. So I
have both and both have been confirmed with separate and
multiple diagnoses. You know, over the year years and twenty
twenty one, a new dermatologist I was seeing, she said,
let's test you for psoriasis, Let's test you for basically
(02:08):
everything under the sun. So we did a lot of
patch testing and we did some blood draws, and she said, okay, well,
you're one of the most rare cases I've seen and
with egzma and ssoriasis, and there are so many people
out there that have both. So I'd love that I'm
here to shine light on my early experiences with psoriasis
(02:29):
and exma both. Knowing that I had this autoimmune condition,
it really explained, Oh, this is why sometimes I'm just
so exhausted or this is why sometimes I don't have
an appetite or whatever it may be. So it's just
really eye opening and having to go through tons and
tons of doctors just to get that one diagnosis. In
(02:49):
twenty twenty one, I had to advocate for myself, and
I knew that something else was going on other than
ezma because there was just so many different symptoms I
was experiencing. So just having a doctor that really is
your advocate, when you do find somebody that really has
their heart in it and really looks you in your
eyes and says, you know we're going to help you.
You know you don't have to suffer like this, I
(03:11):
think it's just really key. And I would say to
anybody like, don't stop searching until you find those people
who are on your team and do truly care.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You evidence a phenomena that we have seen in I
think every single guest, no one is like I had
a problem. I went to the doctor, they told me
I had sorrisis. It's always this journey of meandering turns
and twists. I'm very thankful that you brought up that
you also experience exzema and kind of have this layered
scenario that is very unusual. How does having these two
(03:45):
different things change how you manage each of them, because
I imagine in some cases what you would do for
one might be contry indicated for the other.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, that too.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So there's that point where the method tre say, and
the folic acid for psoriasis, you know sometimes that's prescribed
that can sometimes flare up ezema. It also made mysiasis
like a little bit more like weepy rather than crusty.
And it's like a little bit graphic. Oh, we're going
to get so graphic.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, don't even worry about it.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's just so bad. So for anybody with skin issues
that's listening to this and that's here with us, like
we're with you, You're not alone. There's a lot of
mental health issues that go into this. Because I was
calling out a work at the time. I was working
retail at a department store, and I couldn't go to
work because my eggzema and psoriasis was like combining and
(04:41):
like turning into this like ooze, like all body ooze,
and so it's like affects your mental health and your paycheck,
and it's a whole body experience. It's definitely not just
the skin.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
By the time you found this doctor that heard you
and you mentioned doing like patch tests and stuff. What
was that diagnosis process like where they finally realized like, oh, no,
this is a two headed monster, not just one that
we're dealing with. Like, what were the steps that you
had to go through.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They took a patch of skin off of my thigh,
just like the tiniest little patch of all the layers.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Of my skin.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
They also like the physical examination of looking and I
think a lot of doctors they kind of get confused
because eggzema crisis can look the same a little bit.
For decades and years. It was just oh, this is
this is egment. You have allergies, you have allergies, so
this is eggzement, which it is. I do have allergies
and sometimes it is eggzema. From like twenty ten to
(05:44):
like twenty twenty, so like a decade, I had rashes
on my foot and I was just wondering myself, like
I've never had this as a child with eggzema. But
I just thought, oh, it just is new eggzema. So
they took the patch test, they took some blood tests,
and then it was just as simple as them saying, yeah,
this is psoriasis off the patch test, but just knowing like, hey,
(06:04):
I have psoriasis and we need to treat it. It
just helps with the diagnosis and then it also helps
with the doctors knowing what to prescribe.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I like how you went years and years consulting doctors
and you just needed that one person to be like, hey,
there's the simple test we can do here.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, skin biopsy. Right, the word just came to me.
And all of this is out of pocket, by the way,
like I didn't have insurance at this time. Then there's
another there's another prong of this, which is the affordability
in this country. Is like with skin problems, people kind
of just brush it off, like, oh, you don't have
heart failure, you have skin condition. So it's like live
(06:45):
with it, deal with it, figure it out yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I want to pivot a little bit to talking about
some of your work because you model, which of course
involves all kinds of visibility literally, yes, visibly, emotionally. It's
the lot of visibility. So one I just want to
know how did you get into modeling, How did you
start down that path?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
My mom has put a camera in front of my
face since I was a baby like video camera. I
was a nineties baby, so just the camquarder was in
my face all the time. I'm so used to it.
But I actually didn't start professionally modeling until I was
about twenty three, so not young. You know a lot
(07:28):
of girls they start when they're thirteen or twelve. I
started when I was twenty three, and I was in
a corporate role and I was in transportation and logistics,
and I was just in my apartment pool with a
bikini that I purchased from the model. Her name's Ashley Graham.
Do you know who she is?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So, yeah, she's an international A list the number one model.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I just love her.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I love her stunningly paint gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, her beauty just radiates inside and out, and so
it's just she's just the best. So I posted a
picture of me in a bikini in her bikini line
in my apartment pool, like you know, nothing fancy. My
friend took the picture and she reposted me, and that's
how I jumped from like one hundred followers to thousands
(08:17):
of followers. And I decided I'm going to quit my
job and buy a new car and drive out to
La and just come with five hundred dollars and see
what happens. And then I went to casting in twenty
twenty four in January for Good American. Thirty thousand people
applied for this casting. And I showed up to this
(08:38):
casting on an early morning. I had eggzema all over
my neck, I had psoriasis on my hands. It was
pouring rain, but I said I'm here. I made it
seven hours waiting in line, and I was in the
audition for less than five minutes and I went to
the head of HR. I didn't know who she was.
She was just the first judge available, and I said,
I'm here because I have no makeup on, I have
(09:01):
soaking wet hair, I have eggzema and crisis all over me.
Like it's been, you know, a crazy week, and I
just moved to LA two months ago, and I'm here
for this casting. I'm proud to be myself, like everybody's perfect,
just the way they are. And she was like, we
love you and literally like I had like red oozing
eggzema on my neck. And then a month later, I
(09:23):
get this email saying you're part of our Good squad
along with six other girls out of thirty thousand people.
I was like, what, so that's how I got started
in modeling, And yeah, here are the.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Two things that I think of immediately. One, this is
such a classic and perfect example of confidence is more
beautiful than any genetics, right, Like, that's what the draw
was for you. But Two do you ever wonder I
wonder listening to your story if like, how many man
hours and how much mental energy was spent and possibly
(09:57):
wasted with the think tank of people go, I don't
know how much do we photoshop they're red? How much
do we allow and especially when they want to be authentic?
There is a delicate balance there in the consumer market,
which is really interesting. There is also this other aspect
of having a job like that, because visibility can be
very double edged, right, There's an empowering aspect to it,
(10:20):
but it is also very exhausting for most people. How
do you balance that? How do you decide when you're like, yep,
I'm going to show up publicly. I'm going to put
myself out there today versus the days when you're like,
you know what, we're going to prioritize personal piece today.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
So I'm very much a pull up my bootstops and like,
use the privileges and blessings.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
That I have. Stop wallowing away about your skin.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
If you feel okay, like I need to show up
because I need to show up for every person that's
not showing up for themselves, I need to show up
and show them. You can be confident, Like everybody has
their instius curities. Don't let this block you from your
destiny and your dreams. Don't let this hold you back.
When that physical pain comes in, when I can barely
(11:10):
move my neck, or you know, when I can barely
move my legs because I'm just crusted all over, That's
when I decide, hey, I need to just take a
day of rest, hydrate myself, make sure I'm constantly staying moisturized.
Those are the times when I definitely take time and
(11:30):
slow down to heal. There have been instances where hey,
we want a model with egzema or you know, crisis,
just usually casting people, and I'll have to say, oh,
right now, I only have it on my legs and
they're like, oh, well, we wanted it on your face.
I'm like, oh, I just cleared that up. So we
just have to control what we can control, which is
our attitude and putting ourselves out there when we feel
(11:53):
you know good.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So we've been talking a lot about your modeling career.
But if I have my research correct, you're like anisunce woman.
You also are an opera singer. Yeah that's correct. And
yeah and even get me started, and you make jewelry
and you're an artist.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And singing is my passion. Like singing, it's a blessing.
It's a gift my singing voice. And I would say
my singing voice has helped me get through my struggles
with x menz risis because it's like, Okay, I have
a beautiful singing voice. It's like kind of like my buddy,
like my friend. And then I thought to myself, you
know what, like I still have a purpose, like I
(12:35):
have the singing voice, and like I can do something
with it.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, you can add to the list of things that
you do that you are also a psychic, because my
next question was going to be is that a place
you go for solace and to get a little bit
of self care and like self healing.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
One hundred thousand percent, like ultimately, and like I think
my biggest fear like when I get sick, like when
COVID hit. I was sick and I lost my voice,
and my biggest fear is losing my vocal abilities. Knowing
like I have something and it's unique and it's unique
to me, and I'm the only person in the world
that has my singing voice, and so it's like definitely
(13:12):
a comforting thing to have, and so I'm very blessed.
Like I don't take it for granted at all, And
I don't really share a lot of my singing just
because it's so personal and so close to my heart.
And I'm like, I can be half naked on the internet,
but once you want me to start singing, like, I
don't care if people are like you suck, Like I
don't care. People can say whatever they want because I
(13:33):
have such a high confidence and like nothing can break it,
Like my confidence truly comes from within, but it's about
me just being protective of it.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I also want to talk, though, a little bit about
an aspect of you that's very nurturing, because you have
built this very thoughtful, really welcoming online presence that people
are very drawn to. And I'm curious how engaging with
like a kronous illness community online has impacted your journey
and what you have learned from those people and what
(14:04):
you take away on the daily from that experience.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
It's definitely empowering and like great to have a united front.
I just remember times like a couple of years ago,
I was out and about and my hands were covered
in EGMA and it was right when the pandemic was hitting,
and this guy that I knew came up to me.
He's like, you got the coronavirus and like looking at
my hands and like disgusted. I had another person next
(14:28):
to me that I didn't even know. They have crisis,
and they like read him for filth. They were like,
how dare you? And so surrounding yourself and like being
intentional with who you're reaching out to and why, and
like I've reached out on the internet like Instagram, social
media whatever. They said, Oh, we have egsma, we have crisis,
And I hit follow every time and like follow, follow, Follow,
(14:49):
I'm gonna follow all of you so we can be united.
Having that community like really saved me. Having people that
don't have skin conditions that came over to my house
and like did my when I couldn't even move my
arms up and down in my neck because it was
so tight and itchy and oozy and cracking, I couldn't
do anything. It's just good to know, like I have
(15:09):
my group of people that know what I'm going through
and we're not alone, and we're all here to support
each other.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
H I love it so much. I am so delighted
by you and now and Allison's soul.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Fam.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I want to know what's next for you though, whether
that is in your advocacy or your creative work. Listen,
we know the voice is coming or something that we
haven't seen yet.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So I have a couple campaigns for modeling that haven't
come out yet, and I'm so excited about them. One
is a beauty brand and then the other is an
international technology brand. So the beauty brand. That's a huge
accomplishment for me, just because I thought I could never
do a beauty modeling, which is when they get really
close up and take a picture of your eyelashes, they
(15:49):
get really close up and take a picture of like
your lip and your nose or like your ear. I
thought I could never do that because of my eggsamone skin.
But guess what this beauty brand was like, No, you're
perfect and that's the only tree that you have. And
that's how I think I've gotten where I am is
just constantly thinking and like putting the action behind that
mindset of like there are opportunities out there for me,
Like rejection is divine redirection getting you close to your
(16:15):
aligned purpose.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I'm glad you talked about abundance because we have an
abundance of history to talk about, and it gets super
duper weird. I know you are worried about gross. Don't
worry about that because when we look back on the
ways that people have tried to treat psoriasis in the past,
who we get to see a lot of strange treatments
and some that are really super duper gross. Modern times
(16:39):
are not immune from our judgment either, And we're going
to get into all of that right after we take
a little break. So today's history is gonna test your
(17:01):
gag reflex. How far can we go? Because when it
comes to the history of skin treatments, humans have tried
everything right. We've done boiled snakes, We've done mercury savs,
we've done cow heer and cocktails. For people living with
chronic skin diseases like coriasis, that path to relief has
always been tangled in myth and desperation and sometimes straight
(17:24):
up pseudoscience, and believe it or not, some of those
strange cures did not end in the eighteenth century, so
don't get cocky. They're still happening today.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I'm sure. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I know you said it was a long road to
find someone who actually understood that you were actually dealing
with psoriasis. But did you along the path ever try
anything that today you now chuckle at, like, oh, that
was not gonna help me. Ever.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
So this is a really common treatment for sariasis, especially
when there's like an infection or if there's a suspected infection,
and it's a bleach path. So you fill up water
and I think you just pour like a whole gallon
of bleach.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
In the bath. I don't think I would ever want
to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Again, one hundred percent. Thought you were going to say
cold tar, and I'm like, people are still doing it.
For today's story, though, we're going to start not in
any modern clinic or wellness spa, but in fact, in
the foggy streets of seventeen hundreds London. In seventeen fourteen,
an English physician named Daniel Turner published a widely read
(18:27):
medical text called demorbus Cutaneous that's on skin diseases, and
in this text he distinguishes two types of skin conditions,
so one that originates outwardly, like say an allergy, where
an external stimulus is causing skin conditions, and ones that
cause changes to the skin but originate inwardly. He was
(18:51):
kind of onto something an outward condition with an internal
cause describes psoriasis, right. I mean, I find this kind
of remarkable because in seven veteen fourteen he was distinguishing
between inward and outward causes for things that he observed
on his patient's skin. And that's about one hundred and
fifty years before the concept of germ theory was introduced,
(19:13):
and we only officially figured out that psoriasis was an
autoimmune disease sixty to seventy years ago, so he was
way ahead of the curve. Turner did become a physician,
but he actually started out as a barber surgeon, So
this requires a little explanation if people don't know this.
At the time, surgeons were actually in the barber's guild
(19:34):
or the barber's union. Barber surgeon was the title. They
were multi hyphenates, so this is a profession separate from
being a physician. They were considered crafts people artisans, but
not doctors. So physicians were more academic. They could diagnose
things and they would treat people, but the messy parts
(19:55):
of everyday medical needs that was for the barber surgeons
to deal with. So a barber surgeon might come around
and cut your hair. They could pull your teeth if
you needed them taken out. They could do whatever other
minor surgery you might require, total full service in a way,
it's kind of like an original general practitioner, right, yeah, yeah. Thankfully,
(20:18):
In historical terms, by the time we got to the
mid eighteen hundreds, surgery became a lot more civilized and
less frightening thanks to things like anesthesia, which people had
been experiencing surgery without it before then, as well as antiseptics.
It was also incorporated into medical school curricula, which is
what led to the merger of physicians and surgeons under
(20:41):
one umbrella, and then the barbers were then left to
worry about hair. Dentistry formed its own little path as well,
So to go back to Daniel Turner and his book
on skin diseases, one of the most shocking treatments that
he recommends for psariasis is a bra made from boiled vipers,
(21:02):
like literally a snake stew.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
He had some other ideas. He also used mercury salves
on his patients, almost certainly unaware of the toxic effects
of heavy metals. But the thing is these were not
outliers at the time. They were considered very serious, completely
legitimate medical interventions, and as grotesque as that all sounds.
Turner was building on a tradition that really goes back centuries.
(21:29):
Ancient Greek physicians like Galen thought that illness could be
driven out of the body by drawing it through the skin,
and that certain animal substances, including snake parts, had these
cleansing properties. And other common historical treatments included things like
mashed onions not so bad, goat bile getting a little worse,
(21:52):
and brace yourself both human and animal feces.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh I knew that one was coming.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Roman texts actually described the use of urine as a
cleansing agent for wounds. That idea persisted through the Middle Ages,
when folk heelers would advise people to drink urine to
bathe in urine or to use it as a poultice
to treat all manner of ailments, including skin diseases. Some
of this was based on this now discredited idea called
(22:25):
the doctrine of signatures, and that claimed that substances that
resembled an ailing part of the body or organ could
also be the thing that cured that body part or organ.
So other times there was just a lot of superstition
mixed in with people being desperate for some help. So
I want to talk a little bit about the doctrine
of signatures because it is a source of ceaseless fascination
(22:47):
for me. The origins of it are deeply debated. Some
think that this idea that you can tell if a
plant will cure what ails you dates all the way
back to hippocratic medicine and ancient Greece. He definitely had
a belief that quote cures for human ills were divinely
revealed in nature, often through plants. So if you've ever
(23:10):
thought to yourself, like, hey, who was the first person
to try a mushroom so we know it's not poisonous,
it was these guys.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yes, Wow, it sounds really strategic and very promising.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
The thing that eventually discredited the doctrine of signatures is
that a lot of these treatments that it suggested in
this ideology, it suggested people approach treatment with poisoned people sometimes,
and that's something that you can't always tell when you
look at a plant, Oh, that plant's poisonous. So when
they're like, I don't know, it looks like a kidney,
give it a whirl, and then their patient doesn't make
(23:43):
it doesn't really help that ideology. So all of this
to say, our sixteen, seventeenth and eighteenth century doctors were
very into experimentation with the natural world and all of
the excrement and smelly onion salves that it had to offer.
(24:04):
And you may think that we have moved past that now,
and in a lot of ways we have, but there
is a catch. Even in the twenty first century, treatments
that sound a little bit more like magic than medicine
still find their way into the mainstream. It happens all
over the world on social media of all types, and
sometimes it can even come from a government. Get ready,
(24:27):
So in early twenty twenty one, not that far from
when you were actually finally getting your diagnosis, sort of
a yes, the Indian government's National Cow Protection Board decided
that they were going to host an examination. The subject was,
of course the cow, so that's right. There was this
national exam all about the cow, which is a sacred
(24:48):
animal to many people in India. And that may sound weird,
but they did it. They put together this voluntary online
exam that anyone could take. It was offered in fourteen languages.
So it was a huge, huge undertaking. This was like
a big project. This actually turned into a little bit
of a problem though, because some of the strangest parts
of this entire undertaking were in the study materials that
(25:12):
were provided by this government body. So this material promoted
the use of punchagava for disease prevention and treatment. And
punchagava is a traditional Ayurvedic mixture. It is composed of
five cow derived substances, so milk, curd, ghi which is clarified,
(25:35):
butter urine, and dung. And according to these materials circulated
by this official government body, daily consumption of this combination
that included all these substances could heal psoriasis and many
other things, even purportedly cancer. This fifty four page study
(25:58):
guide which was released ASF is no longer available online
and the test never actually ended up happening because there
was a lot of outcry from local doctors and even
in international media about some of the uncorroborated medical claims
and pseudoscience that were contained in the syllabus and study materials.
(26:19):
And remember, too, the COVID pandemic was kind of at
its height at this time, and it was actually thought
by some people that cow dung could cure that too.
There were videos that spread on news outlets. I'm sure
some of us saw them of people smearing themselves in
it as a protection against the virus that obviously is
not a functioning way to handle it. And reactions from
(26:39):
the medical community were very swift to all of this.
Indian dermatologists and scientists condemned the material as pseudoscience. Doctor
ja Jailal said quote, there is no concrete scientific evidence
that cow dung or urine work to boost immunity. But
the thing is that study pamphlet wasn't it like a
(27:00):
fringe thing. It had institutional backing, It was distributed to
thousands of students, and it highlights this troubling disconnect that
can happen between traditional beliefs and evidence based medicine and
the very real impact that that gap can have on
patient care. So we do, though, have to consider the
context of local sentiments because it does put a little
(27:24):
bit of this in a different light. Like we said,
a lot of people in India consider cow sacred, so
some of this information may have hit differently to parts
of that audience than it automatically does to the Western ear.
But we should not be patting ourselves on the back
at all. Western culture produces so much pseudoscience with regard
(27:44):
especially to caring for our skin. Celery juice, raw diets,
alkaline foods have all been touted online by influencers as
well as a lot of other stuff who claim that
they have cured their psoriasis with treatment that really has
no sense scientific backing. This, I imagine for someone like you
(28:04):
is the other flip of the coin. It's the other
side of putting yourself out there online. Do you have
experienced non doctors who try to help you or diagnose
you when you have a flare and you share about
it online.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yes, And I appreciate everybody's input, anybody who's willing to
give me their time and whatever they think will help.
And on the topic of cows, tallow is just it's
their fat and it really has helped my skin, just
keeping the cracking away, keeping the flare down. And it's
from Kansas where I'm from. It's Kansas Prairie fire farms
(28:42):
and it's their beef tallow and I love it and
I use it every day. So yeah, somebody suggested that
to me, a non doctor, and that has been really
helpful to me.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Have you ever had people though, who like kind of
tell you, I know what will work for you and
it is something where you're like, don't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Like people have told me like sit
in the sun all day, like the sun will heal you.
It's like, no, it won't heal me. It actually makes
mine a little worse, which I know that they sometimes
do say I was sitting in the sun really heals you,
And that might work for some people, but not me.
So yeah, just all the things like oh, smear honey
on you. I'm like, no, it's gonna make it worse.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
This also brings up the important point that we can
never assume that what works for one person is going
to work for somebody else. And of course, finding a
doctor is crucial, and finding an ally in a doctor
is crucial, and getting treatment for soriasis, even though as
evidenced by your story, can sometimes be a very long
road to find the right doctor for you. And yet
(29:43):
if you kind of zoom out historically across time and cultures,
the urge to treat skin disease with whatever tools are available,
even if they're very strange, starts to make a lot
of sense. Because siriasis isn't just a medical condition, it
is something that's visible. You have talked about how it
is stigmatized. It can profoundly affect how people see themselves
(30:06):
and how other people see them and throughout history this
also pertains to your story. People with chronic skin conditions
have often been mistaken for lepers, or they have been
accused of carrying a contagious disease. We have mentioned on
the show before that in some medieval towns, people with
psoriasis were required to wear special garments or even carry
(30:27):
bells so that people knew they were coming and could
get away. It really is bad, and even today, I mean,
people with psoriasis report being stared at or shamed, excluded
in social settings, or running into some weird person out
and about who wants to be rude. So it starts
to make sense when you think about how painful that
can be. That if someone anyone says that they have
(30:50):
a cure, a person might be predisposed to listen. And
then you try the leech paste, you eat the viper broth,
you consider whatever it is from the sacred cow that
might work. I like that you actually have a bovine
based thing that works for you.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Yes, I love cows, so thank you to the cows
that make my beef tallow.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Thanks. We have, of course, come a long way from
snake stews, although I mentioned some people still eat snakes too,
no judgment. Today, dermatologists have an arsenal of specifically and
scientifically validated treatments, things like topical steroids, phototherapy, and biologics
that can target specific immune pathways like AL seventeen or
(31:30):
TNF alpha. We've also talked about those this season, and
these treatments, if you get the right one, can really
bring dramatic relief. But the other thing is that access
to these treatments remains uneven. There's misinformation that persists, and
stigma still shapes the care that people receive. So when
(31:50):
we look at all of this, what can we take
away from this very strange and stinky piece of history.
First that the line between healing and harming has always
been a little bit blur, especially when science hasn't yet
caught up to the suffering that people are enduring. Second,
that every strange cure was born from a very human
(32:10):
impulse to soothe and to heal and to feel in
control of your own body. And then third that even today,
with all of our scientific progress, we still need to
ask hard questions about who gets access to evidence based
care and who still might get handed a vial of
snake oil. Because while we no longer believe we need
(32:31):
to rub feces on our skin, at least most of us,
there are, as your story evidences, a lot of people
who still feel like they are fighting their condition alone.
And that is not the case. So hopefully your story
will help with this.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
I hope so even just one person, If just one
single person is inspired by this thoughts, then I've done
my job.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
We do like to always end on a bright note
here on our skin, although also clearly we're happy to
indulged the delightfully gross here as well. Yeah, we have
thankfully come leaps and bounds in our understanding of treating psoriasis.
What one might have been prescribed even just five or
ten years ago might be vastly different today. And I
(33:14):
know it's only been like four years since you had
your official diagnosis, but have you experienced that already, like
treatments that were available to you getting more effective, or
some new thing being introduced that change things.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Definitely. I'm writing this remission that I'm in and literally
just using beef tallow and washing my face with soap
and water and you know, just regular seed to Phil
or Sarah v no fragrance. That's the sensitivity of mine too,
and kind of causes a lot of the rashes. I know,
I just recently talked about beef tallow, but I swear
it's like really helped me, and I use it every
(33:51):
day and every medicine for csoriasis an eggzema, and I
do use those when I do have a little bit
of flares or if I have patches of skin that
pop up on my face, I'll use them, But for
now I'm just using beef tallow.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
That's all I'm using.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I have two more questions for you. We ask these
of everybody at the end of every episode. So the
first is what suggestions do you have for people who
maybe don't have psoriasis themselves, but they love someone or
they're close to someone who does. How can they best
be a help to that person.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
First of all, never say stop itching, like people don't
understand we have to, like there's no way, like we can't.
Like it's if you have a flare up, like itching
is like the only thing that provides relief.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
A lot of the time, it's the itch that really helps.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I would say, just be supportive, tell them you're there
for them, and ask them if they need anything. I
know it sounds silly, but if their dishes are piling
up like that happens when you can't move yourself because
of your skin condition, let them know that you're there
for them, even if it's just a text and you're
across the world and you just want to say, hey,
I know you're suffering this, and I think that you
(35:01):
need to know that I'm here for you and we're
going to get through this together and like you will
survive this.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And last, but not least, if you could send a
message to listeners who are maybe grappling with their own
diagnosis and kind of coming to terms with it. What
would that message be.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
I know it's hard to do, but don't panic, like
getting in your head and panicking thinking, oh my gosh,
like I'm never going to get.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
My life back? Is this my life forever?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Why me?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Why me?
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Change your mindset in your mind and that's where it
starts too. I will survive this, Like why not me?
Like this is happening for my benefit, Like this is
happening so that I have a unique ability to overcome
really hard times.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
You know, you know yourself best, and like that's what
I would tell people is just know that you are
valuable and you're worthy no matter what you have going
on with your health, and just really focus on your mindset.
Is the first place that your healing starts is. In
my opinion, Allison, you are such a darned delight. Thank
you so much for spending this time with me.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Likewise, Hollie, thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Our skim is hosted by myself, Holly Frye and executive
produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our executive producer and
writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, share
it with your friends. You can also listen and follow
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
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