July 10, 2024 • 74 mins
Paul and Skip have an audience with music royalty: Mr. Clive Davis. The legendary label exec and current Sony chief reflects on getting his start in rock by signing Janis Joplin, laughs about giving tips on stage craft to a young Bruce Springsteen, and recalls the emotional night Whitney Houston sang for him for the first time. Davis also reveals what he looks for when signing new artists, the act he regrets NOT signing, and his favorite song.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy
Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, this
is Paul Anka.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And my name is Skip Bronson.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We've been friends for decades and we've decided to let
you in on our late night phone calls by starting
a new podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And welcome to our Way. We'd like you to meet
some real good friends of ours.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You're leaders in entertainment and.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even as sitting
president or two.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Join us as we ask the questions they've not been
asked before.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Tell it like it is, and even sing a song
or two.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
But what is it that you look for in an
artist before deciding to work with them?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
You need this speciology. If they're a writer, it's got
to be distinctive, if you neede the way Springsteen Patty
Smith were an or to this day. If you're a
vocalist unique, I mean Whitney used it, Okay, So you're
looking for those artists that can't be stars.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So hey, Paul, Paul's my name, show business is my game.
It's you again. I gotta clock how many times that
you called and I hear, Hey, Paul, and then you
gotta do the same. Now I'm looking back at the
litany of our relationship. How do we do this every day?
But hey, I think we should do like a breathing
(01:48):
thing like the phone ring, you go, hey, Skip.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
I like that. At least you put some little humor.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
All right.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Well, you know the funny thing is if one of
us really has something to say, just jump right on it,
you know, like if it's something well you usually.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Do though you uhould call me. You never say to
me like you'll say, hey, Paul, like today. But the
ones I like is You'll never believe what happened just
twenty minutes. You'll never believe who just called? Did you
just hear about?
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Man?
Speaker 6 (02:26):
I had a.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Great meal at Stelli's. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
What a great restaurant, and I want to share that.
And the guy are my buddy. Clive Davis is a
big foodie. Yeah, okay, among everything that he does. Our
guest tomorrow, Clive Davis is among all the things that
he does musically, and we're going to ask him what
he does for, you know, off the music scene. One
(02:52):
of the things I'm sure you'll mention is restaurants because
I meet him in Paris every now and then. I
know he loves that. He's an impeccable dresser, and he's
just so smart and brilliant and has been and is
a force in this music business. And I know he
knows d you know he's oh yeah, yeah, my wife
and he go way back. It's fascinating to me that
(03:14):
Clive Davis ninety two years old and you still see
him everywhere speaking in restaurants. I mean he's out, he's
out like every night, he's you know, working during the day,
ninety two, never thinking about the number, just going out
and getting it done.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
And what a what a career.
Speaker 7 (03:32):
I mean the artist that he's that he is not
only discovered but molded these artists where he got them
to do things that maybe they didn't typically want to do.
Pretty amazing guy. Yeah, he really is, you know what.
You and I like people who have great stories, but
also who are great storytellers, and I think that's Clive Davis.
(03:55):
He's the guy with great stories and he's a great storyteller.
So it should be fun. You know him forever?
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Right, Oh A long time, long long time?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Did you ever work with him or not really, you know,
probably a regret I've never had him in my life
in terms of overseeing a project with me. I've always
been kind of self contained and wound up with whomever.
But certainly someone I would have liked to have worked with.
But you know, I was kind of discovered as a kid.
(04:25):
You know, I left home at fifteen. I wound up
with another musical genius, Don Costa, so they kind of
controlled the first many years of my life. You know,
I've wound up with people like that, and Costa was
in my life for a lot of years. And Rick
Hall at a muscle shoals, you know, with Clive, and
(04:45):
you'll find out when we talked to him, he discovered
these people. When he found them, they were nobody, you know.
I mean that in the gentlest sense. They didn't know
if they could write, they didn't know if they could perform.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
He molded most of those people, not unlike what David
Geffen did with his people. So I mean, unfortunately I
was cursed because I got discovered at fifteen, and I
didn't have a David or a Clive in my even
though David approached me. I'll never forget it. It was
right near the old Americana Hotel and he was just
starting out as an agent. We ran right into each
(05:21):
other on sixth Avenue or seventh or something. So I
want to represent you, and I really love what you're
doing and I can really help you.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
He's a young guy, right, and I was with Irving
Felt the Nerve was my manager and looking after me.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Of course I was very loyal to IRV. But no,
there was no way that I could ever hook up
with Clive or David. Well, there's still time, Yeah, there
is still time, There's no question about it. But I
don't know that right now. I want to go on
a record studio with anybody.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's a change business today. Skip people that go in
studios and make product. People never hear it. They don't
let alone buy it. The streaming world, it's all about
the streaming.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
The other thing I want to ask him about.
Speaker 7 (06:03):
He's known for being a worrier, and I want to
ask him about that, like why he worries and do
you still worry at ninety two?
Speaker 6 (06:11):
Do you worry about anything at ninety two other than
you know, getting up the next day.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
That's something I can identify it with his worry.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I just I won't. I can't be a worrier. I
don't like jealousy, I don't like guilt, and I don't
like worry. Kind of lived like that. It just wasted time.
Speaker 7 (06:27):
I know that to be true, knowing the way to do. Sorry,
Just what are you doing? You're going to just hang
You're going to hang here for a while. You're going
to be in town for a while.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I'm home now.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I'm just with the writer on the Broadway show, which
is developing, and I'm finishing my documentary. We're about a
few months away from that, and that's really consuming. That
in the Broadway show, and then that's pretty much it.
And then I'm going to see I'm going to see
you for dinner with that lawyer friend of yours, Alan Gorublin. Yeah,
(06:57):
I'm going to take him all to dinner to a couple.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
Yeah, it'll be fun.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I just want to see him chewing a bone for
twenty hours.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
You can count it. That's in the program. I can
tell you that right now.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Hey, it's it's absolutely something I demand. If I'm going
to pick up the check, you pick up that bone,
and I pick up the check. How's that that's the
cover charge? Cover church, as long as it leaves enough
for my dog because he hates dogs. You know, don't
(07:30):
get him going with dog.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
I'm aware, No, I know that.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
I don't think they're too fonded.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Well, you're a gigantic dog, you'll they'll be leftovers. You're giking. Well, yeah,
we'll have a yeah, what is it? Thought? We one
hundred and fifty pounds?
Speaker 5 (07:45):
No, a hundred.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
No, she's close to two hundred close, Oh, two hundred
pounds dog. Come on, baby, she is something else, the
heaviest dog I've ever been with, no doubt.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Fix me up. Like somebody said to me the other day,
you and michelle'll ever have sex? Standing up?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I said no, because I'm a fragi'll drop me, little
old Paul. I'll never survived that. Well the talk exactly.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
All right, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna hit the hay
and I'm gonna talk to you tomorrow for sure.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
Oh, I think we can bet on that. Sleep warm
all right?
Speaker 6 (08:26):
Let him?
Speaker 5 (08:27):
I love you too.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
You know, we've had a lot of guests on here, Skip,
and I've got to tell you that this is very.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Special for me.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
You know, being in this business as I have been
blessed for, you know, over sixty years, and starting at
the inception when pop music was in its infancy stage,
I got to know a lot of those that were
very instrumental in the changes that occurred in our industry.
But our next guest, just his name would suffice, but
(09:02):
obviously it wouldn't because there's so much that goes with it.
The openness of this man, the breath of the music
that he's championed, is just astonishing. And his ears, they're
always been fresh, they're always current. And I can't tell
you how honored I am. Even though I've known him
through the years and we've shared moments together, I am
(09:25):
so so thrilled, and I know you are to have
with us for our audience and for us to be
able to talk with the one and the only, and
I mean.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
That he is.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I've seen them, as I said, from the fifties on,
but we have with us today, mister Clive Davis.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
High Clive. I'm so happy to'd be with you guys.
So let's make it special.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Yes we will.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Clive Sailo to Richard Bronson, Skip Bronson, Edie Baskin's husband.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
That's right, I know him, p Ian's are you kidding?
I knew him and of course I know he longer
and better. Please send my very best.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
She loves you so.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Much, Clive.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Before we chronologically and go back to Crown Heights, I
want to get to the meat of something that's on
all of our minds today. Could you tell us what's
your feeling and where is the music industry? Where is
it going? With AI and everything that we're very much
aware of? Where have we landed? And what does your
gut tell you where is it going? Knowing we're always
(10:28):
going to know music in our lives.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
You know, AI will be a fact, but I'm not
here to predict. I don't know enough. We've just got
to be vigilant and careful that our creative members, our
creative population, our created genius, creative geniuses are protected and
(10:53):
that human creativity is protected. But there's no clear answer
right now. Has got to be vigilant, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
It always just comes back to gut too. I think
you know when you're when you're trying to make decisions,
how much of what you do now would you say
was impacted by how you grew up in Crown heights
in a neighborhood that was really a melting pot. So
it's not like I grew up in Hertford, Connecticut, and
I lived in an area where like on the Jewish
(11:22):
holidays the schools had to close. You know, it was
everybody was the same or same type of person or
had the same background. But the way you grew up,
you grew up in a place that you know, it's
just every there was so many different cultures that were involved.
I'm just curious how that how that impacted you.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Well, look, we're going back ninety years. So back when
I got in music by Action Total Access, I had
studied law in Harvard. I was again a predigions law
fernal just by luck, they have to rupt and Columbia
(12:01):
Records and Bill Bailey and CBS. And I remember getting
an offer from an alumnus of the law firm who
was chief attorney for Columbia.
Speaker 8 (12:14):
Records, and he asked.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
We were about thirty five lawyers. Okay, there are only
four of us that were doing non litigation. I was,
by luck doing the contract work for a talent agency,
Columbia Artists Management eight, that had formerly been part of
(12:37):
Columbia Records. He asked to see the person that was
doing the contracts. It was me, and he offered me
to become general counsel for Columbia Records. I was three
years out of law school, and I knew since the
(12:59):
law firm, I really only had well to do affluent
individuals like Goal Pealing or corporations like CBS. I would
never I'd had no money. My parents died when I
was eighteen, independent of each other. I had four thousand
dollars to my name. I didn't know anybody with money
(13:22):
that could be a client of that firm, so I
would be a service partner. I go into this because
when I went to see Ralph Colin, who represented the
lawyer whose client was Columbia Records, for advice, he said,
the record business is not for you. He said, look
(13:46):
at you. You wearing tacking fans. You're wearing a queen's
four jacket. You went to Harvard. The record business is
not for you.
Speaker 8 (13:57):
Most of them.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Were gold chains and the image of the hit MANJIV talking.
He didn't know that I grew up in Crownheight. E
didn't know that my youth was spent in a melting pot,
and that my schooling was never private. It was all public.
(14:18):
I went to pis for in sixty one, I went
to arrestmus Hall High School.
Speaker 8 (14:25):
It's not that I was three, but I know I knew.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
The common folk and he didn't know that part of me,
and that part of me gave me the answer that
I didn't have a future at that law firm other
than to be a servant's lawyer, and that I would
take the shot and go to Columbia Records. So that
(14:54):
shows you how accidental like. Music was just a part
of my life that I grew up collecting and some
of my friends did forty fives. I knew the hits
of the day. In New York there was a program
called the Make Polly ballro with Mountain Block, and that's
(15:14):
what I listened to to know Sinatra, Pick Kyne's, Perry Combo,
Being Closed, Resigner, Shore King Start. But it was just
a part of my life.
Speaker 8 (15:26):
I mean, I liked it, but it's not that I
had the ambition, the drive, or remotely knew that I
might end up in life having what we called ears.
So that answers your question about Crown Heights.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You know, Clive, all of us in the industry. We've
constantly amazed by your ability to not only recognize and
foster talent reformers, but also you always recognize a timeless song.
And I don't think anyone has embodied both sides of
the inn are like you did. I mean, at Columbia,
(16:01):
he worked mostly with rock acts who wrote their own material,
and that changed obviously when you went to Arista. But
is it more challenging to recognize a timeless artist or
a timeless song?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, let me tell you. Let me fill instant spaces here.
I went over to Columbia. I became the attorney for
Columbia on the grounds of synergy, of the direction of
Phil Pennalley. We bought Fender guitar, we bought Leslie speakers,
we bought ste Grapecianos, and god In bleepresent by mentor
(16:38):
and by boss was being promoted as the group president.
And he came to me and he said, I'm being
made a group president, and since you're the only one
at Columbia who has that contact with all those musical
(16:59):
instruments companies, I'm going to make you head, if you like,
of the musical instrument division. He didn't no, nor did
I of any DNA in music or that it would
become my life person. But the next morning when I
(17:20):
came in, I got a call from him. He said,
please come in because our executive vice president, Norman not
he wants to move to La Joya. You might not
want to move to Lawyer with and it was located.
And so I'm going to make him the head of
(17:41):
the musical Instruments division, and I'm going to make you
the head of Columbia Records. I'm a slabagas that believe
in not is how I became head of Columbia Records.
And yes to watching weaving looking seeing that the a
(18:04):
and armed men who did Tony Bennett and Andy woodiams in,
Bob streisand and Mix Miller himself, I had a gay
in arm. None of them kept vigilant to what was
happening in the growth of rock music, but there was
a pending rock revolution. I ended up at Monterey. Bob
(18:27):
My first deal was the Blue Out. If you under
San Francisco, be short of his flowers in your hair.
My epiphany in nineteen sixty seven, because I was not
remotely thinking I would never sign orders, was that I
was there with Jennis Joplin performed during the day totally unknown.
(18:50):
A member of the group called big Brother in the
holding company, and I really got an epiphany I would
have to sign this artist. I never thought I'd signed
an artist, but I did. I just felt it in
my bones, and right after that I signed Blood Fluting Tears, Chicago, Santana.
(19:15):
Irtwood didn't fire like that. They were mostly self contained artists.
At the height of the success that brought Columbia from
number three to number one, a head of capital and RCA,
CBS Columbia Records faced a charge from a guy that
(19:38):
was convicted in fraud that there could be payola in
the record industry and even at Columbia Record. To protect
their CBS broadcasting system, the lawyers have bound said separate
yourself from there. We can't afford to lose the license.
(19:58):
I was let go. Life is never up, up up,
and that's what makes my documentary still among the top
five on Netflix to this very day and now just
been added by PBS, because it's not a story of
up up up, it's his story as well, about resilience,
(20:22):
withstanding challenges and learning to overcome them. I go into
this background pall because when I started a brand new company, Arison,
named after my high school and all New York High
School on the Society. I had just been the head
(20:42):
of the largest directed company in the world and Rocket changed.
Rock was now punk, rock was now new wave with
Patty Smith Louie Graham Parker. I signed them because I
loved the rock background, and that's why I'm in the
rock and roll all of tame. But I would never
(21:03):
be a major based on what those artists would sell.
So I had to test my ears because the only
way that albums went gold, platinum and multi platinum were
from their singles.
Speaker 8 (21:20):
And so I said to myself, yes.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
You've gotten confidence, and the rock artists that you discovered,
including Springsteen and Billy Joel, are unique special, but can
you pick a hit song because it's singles that are
making golden platinum albums. And I wanted to be a
(21:46):
major label. I wanted to be back as the biggest company,
compete against Columbia.
Speaker 8 (21:52):
RCAA Capital and so yes.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Right at the very beginning, when I signed Barry Manilow
as the first artist on Ariston, he was totally unknown.
He had one album out to show, literally five thousand copies.
He only thought of himself as a writer arranger who
(22:19):
is not only for himself. He was working with Ben
Midler in that capacity. I listened to the albums on
what would have been his second the song that would
have been the second album A Barry and I said,
it's a good album. You've got good songs, you don't
(22:44):
have a hit single. He looked at me, startled, and
I said, give me. It's important for me to see
if I could come up with a hit song. You
and I did come up with. Mandy was called Brandy
(23:04):
in the demo, but Brandy You're a Fine Girl had
already been a hit on Epic with looking Glass, so
I changed the name from Brandy to Bandy and we
went over the arrangement. At first, Barry thought I was
looking for an uptempo. I said, no, it's a ballad,
(23:26):
and he came up with a brilliant arrangement. And our team,
that is Barry and I launched his career with Mandy
and the first record on Ours, Mandy went straight to
number one. So what happened then was that he said, okay,
(23:52):
you're signing. You signed me because when I opened for
DM wowick con Central Park, you said I was performer.
I was a great showman. I never thought of myself.
To this day, he doesn't think of himself, but he
is fifty years later selling out Radio City two weeks
(24:17):
a year. It's just in the London Palladium, selling fourteen
dates at age eighty sellouts. Just sent me a clip
from Manchester thirteen thousand sell out, so he gave me
our deal. Pall and Skip were all right, you're gonna
(24:37):
get two songs on every album. I'm Barry in a
rape the rest of the album, and you automatically have
two songs. So I made those two songs count. Because
although Barry is to his credit, is in the songwriting's
(24:58):
Hall of Fame, he wrote complic about it. He wrote
this funt see you even now. But I came up
with I write the songs can't Smile without You, looks
like we made it. I made it through the rain,
trying to get to feeling again. Every song became a big,
(25:20):
big being hit, so that he became a multi platinum
album artist and it really held first maybe ten years.
Samaris give us a major shot at being an important
alternative to Columbia and RCA.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Clive, You've been apart obviously have so many amazing artists
under your guidance and your talent.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
But it was curious.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I remember when you didn't sign John Mellencamp because you
felt he was too similar to Springsteen. Were there any
other artists that, let's say, once you wanted them but
they got away? Is anyone you look back?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Weather is the two artists. But let me tell you
a good story that only came up a few years ago.
For many years when I was being interviewed what big
artists did, I pans out and I always said the
biggest artist I passed on was John Mellencamp.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
John Cougar Melancamp.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I also with everybody else in the industry, and this
became He became a big artist with one album, but
never really after that, and that was met Folk, the
meat Boat situation. Having listened to the Jim Steinman songs, theatricals,
(26:46):
I and everybody else passed on that one album. But
it's not that meat Folk had ten more albums like that.
The Bad Out of Bell was big, huge, but that
was It was John Mellencamp who wrote Jack and Dan
who became a great original rock artist. So come with
(27:10):
me to in Lane's restaurant. Jan Winner is having a
dinner the night before he's intucted into the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame, and I'm standing there. They're only
about sixty of percent. And I'm standing there with Bruce Springsteen,
with John Mellencamp, with Jackson Brown, and with Dawn Anley
(27:35):
having drinks before dinners when a voice from the microphone says,
wherever you're standing, you guys, sit at that table. That's
where we're gonna have dinner.
Speaker 8 (27:49):
So when sitting down, I was.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
The only quote suit at that table, and they were
each saying whether who auditioned for me? And here Mellencamp
on my left is Springstein, on his left is Melenchamp.
I said, John, in every interview, you are the biggest
(28:12):
artists that I ever fansed on on And the reason
that I can't believe it because he's sitting between us
right now, it goes Springstein. I thought at that time
you were pretty close to Springsteen. I had signed the
original and he said to me, let me rest your
(28:38):
anxiety or your concern will put you in peace. Eight
weeks before I auditioned from you, I was in a
cover band in Las Vegas, your listeners. A cover band
is a band that has no original songs but just
covers the big of the day. Could be fun, could
(29:02):
be entertaining, but it is not creatively credible. He said,
you're a great singer, a manager of David Bowie, and
he said, if you leave the band and begin writing
or seeing if you can write, I will use my
(29:25):
decision as managing one of the great old time orders
to get you audition before the leading talent signs of
the day, he said. Eight weeks I left the band,
he said, and started writing, and eight weeks after I
(29:47):
left that cup of band, I get a call. I'm
a new audition for you. Rest easy. I was not
a jack and Diane riger that I became. My biggest
influence was Blue Springstein at the time. There's no doubt
that I'd be too close. I was not worthy of
(30:10):
being signed when I listened to you, and it certainly
was not the artist and writer about i'd become. So
that's the full story.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
For very cool, Very cool.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Both you and Paul two legends in the music industry,
and you each have your own way of you know,
approaching different songs and different artists. But you've discovered and
nurtured the talent of so many artists. But what is
it that you look for in an artist before deciding
to work with them. What is the thing that you
when you meet a new artist, What is that thing
that you say to yourself, they have to check that box?
Speaker 4 (30:56):
What is that uniqueness? Speciality? If they're a writer, it's
got to be distinctive, unique the way Springsteen, Patty Smith
were and or to this day. If you're a vocalist unique,
I mean Whitney Houston stun me at her audition. So
(31:19):
you're looking for those artists that can be stars. If
they're not a Dylan Springstein or the Light or they
hit songwriter, do they have hit for themselves? That's what
a Lacy Cheese had. She had hits as well as
(31:39):
the stunning, youthful Pru Soda. So you're looking for uniqueness.
And what I've got to tell you in thrilling, because
it just happened to me. I got one of the
calls of a lifetime two weeks ago, three weeks ago
from Carnegie Hall that the New York Philharmonic Pops was
(32:02):
celebrating their forty first birthday, and every song played that
night on April twenty ninth at Cornegie Hall by the
New Boss would be a song that was launched in
my career. And what they didn't tell me is that
they went after all of my artists that I'm signed
(32:28):
and got them that loyalty. I'll never forget. So what
Cornegie Hall, literally six weeks ago, we had Manulo, we
had Dil Warwick, we had Santana with Rob Thomas, we
had Fantasias, and actually, because Springsteen was in Italy, we
(32:53):
got John dollen Camp to Saint Born in the USA.
But it was a night not to be ever forgotten,
and mostly because not only were they still stars, but
fifty years I signed barrin Manilone in nineteen seventy five,
(33:21):
so here we are forty nine years later. I signed
Santana originally in nineteen sixty nine, so there we were
fifty five years later.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
They were all.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
In their individual numbers. They brought the house down.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
The true testament, Clive, because you and I know what
this business is about. You can't control loyalty, You just can't.
But all those people obviously loved you and indebted to you.
But going to Whitney that you mention an amazing.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Career in you.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
We all know you were very much a part of
everything that she was doing. I don't know that people
are aware of the fact. I think you went through
over two hundred songs in considering what you were going
to do. What was that process about with that great
artist as Whitney was.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I went to be talking. Now. Let me see nineteen
eighty three. Whitney was about eighteen or nineteen years old,
and I was told by Jerry Griffith and they and
our guy that worked for me, you got to go
to see her. She's special. And I went to see Whitney.
(34:42):
She was singing backgrounds in a mother's sister used to
Jack and Sweet boarders a club in Manhattan, and she did.
She stepped out and mean, she stepped in front of
the east background. But she shared with the brother Gary,
and she sang two songs, Home from the Wiz and
(35:07):
the song that I had commissioned eight years earlier for
the movie On the Way for Muhammad Ali. The movie
was called The Greatest. The song for was written by
Michael Mansell and the song was the Greatest Love of All,
which of course is one of the great standards today
(35:32):
of all time.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Give this.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
An eighteen or nineteen year old girl sang a song
that had been recorded by George Benson. It was like
a number of eight R and B hit. She sang
it as though I never heard it before. She had
no idea that I was involved, had been above with
that song. I heard her, and my spine tingle the
(35:58):
composers I knew. I even went out to the lobby
afterwards and called Michael Massa to fly in on the
Red Eyes and go with me the next night to
he had been young girl sing the greatest Love the Ball,
not at my request, on her own, doing like I
(36:19):
never heard it before. So when I signed her, and
to show you how unique I felt she was a
lawyer is because Bruce Paul of the lecture, a few
of the labels were interested. I had the advantage because
I was finding songs, and I brought back Diane Warwick,
(36:42):
her first cousin, Bretha Franklin her quote godmother unquote because
Sissy her mother was some backland singer for Arica Sweden's
Grace and he is. But they requested and demanded a
key man cause which was now if I E E
left the company, she would have the right to leave
(37:05):
because I never gave before, never gave after. Had to
get parental corporate approval because I'm your sly its and
self comfort. I got it. She got to cause and
I had to come up. You know, it's like having
Meryl Street, but you don't have the right play or movie.
(37:26):
You got to get the right material. I arraigned for
songwriter showcases in New York at the Roxy La, having
them sing and calling the biggest US successful songwritings to
hear and say so yes, you're under present writing. It
took two years to come up with the material on
(37:50):
that first album. Of course, Michael Masser had a head start,
so that's how we got saving All My Love for
You would she wrote, and all of one. But it
took two years before we were ready with that debut
(38:11):
album Amazing.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
So I'm a bit I'm a big Springsteen fan. When
did you first experience that force of nature that is
Bruce Springsteen? How did that come about?
Speaker 4 (38:22):
When I auditioned at the request of John Hammond and
they in Our Gift to Day, in our man that
worked at Columbia, Bruce was not a force of nation.
Bruce was a folks in it of what captured me
was the uniqueness of his lyrics. And in those days,
(38:47):
if you were a folk singer and it befell Tim
Harden and it could tell Eric Hansensen, you're called, well,
another Bob Dylan. Two things happened with Bruce, and I'll
tell you anecdotes about one. He never moved. He was alone,
(39:08):
and he performed at see the GVS and Maxims Jolson City,
and he didn't have it. He stood behind the microphone
and he's sang is wonderful, unique lyric. When he turned
his album into well known story shared by Bruce and me,
(39:29):
I listen, I said, Bruce, would you consider a very
sensitive subject between an executive and an autist? But I said,
I love your album cuts. I love the imagery, I
love the lyrics. I have a way of making sure
everyone as the company, knows how to market you. And
(39:51):
I did go on closed Circuit TV to read the lyrics.
Bruce has it TV tape me reading all the lyrics
on his album to show that he was not another
Bob Dylan. This was the unique new talent. And indeed
the two of these gentlemen have become the poet laureates
(40:13):
of Americas over the past century. But when he turned
the album in, I said, I love the album cuts.
You can need at least two radio cuts. We need
to get radio. He could have been defensive. Some would
be understandably. He said, Okay, you might be right, and
(40:36):
he is on tape and saying I went to the beats.
I went to the park over the next two weeks,
and I came up with two songs that I never
ever would have written fIF five and asked me to
search my soul for radio friendly cuts. And he came
(41:00):
up blinded by the light and stirred in the night.
So that's one Springsteen story. During that era, Bill Graham
closed for More East and fill More West to rock theaters,
and the headline in the New York Times is rock dying.
(41:23):
We've seen that pretty often. To show that rock and
contemporary music was still alive, I took over the Almendson
Theater in LA for seven consecutive nights, and I mixed
and matched Springsteen with Miles Davis, new writers of the
(41:47):
Purple Saints Backwards Tuck to'hook. The show that contemporary music
was alive. With special talent, I go to rehearsal Ringsteen
comes onstage by himself on a stage as large as
Radio City Music Hall. And he starts singing, and it
(42:12):
was the first time I had seen them outside them
seeing the GV on MAXI Kansas City and I go
up to these stage. I say, Bruce, let me ask you.
You're getting dwarfed by the stage. And I took him
by the hand. I said, is there any material? And
(42:34):
I walked to the left of the stags and we
casually walked to the alway in the other side. Since
a big audience, it's not an intimate little club like
you used to. Is there any way that you can
move around a little bit? Fast forward two years later,
(42:56):
I'm now head of Arist Records. He's read to release
his third album, Playing the bottom Line. John Landa, was manager,
calls me, Bruce is dying for you to see him
at the bottom Line and could you count it? That night,
I was happening to be with Louie the Famousery and
(43:21):
I went with Louke down on the bottom Line and
I'm showing now I had no clue what I'm going
to tell you that Bruce was capable of becoming the
greatest live performa with Mick Jaga in history. There at
the bottom line capacity of five hundred seats was Springsteen
(43:46):
with the East Street Band. Every number he jumped on
every table at the bottom line, a whirling Dirvers. I
had not a clue that he would be common. There's
whirling Divers. Incredibly adamated, fabulous live entertainment. The show ends,
(44:11):
My job was still dropping. I said, Louis, I've got
to go backstage. I go backstage, and there was Bruce
alone in that bottom line dressing room and I opened
the door. It gives me a big smile and he
looks up and he said, Clive, did I move around
(44:35):
and note for you tonight? We both will never forget that.
So that's the background a little bit, lum Prince.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You know, Clive, you're obviously the music man. I mean,
you're so unique in our industry and as a human being.
And you know, I know, I know that music is
your chief pashion in your life. Are there any other
passions you have, I mean, anything else you're very passionate
about that we wouldn't know about.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
I'm passionate about baseball. I watch the Yankees. I tape
it every night, so I go out pretty much for
dinner every night. Okay, I don't. It's my one. I'm
a foodie. I like good restaurants and by myself during
the day, either at the office or elsewhere. I like
(45:31):
going to a good restaurant at night. So let's say
I get home at ten o'clock, I will have takes
every Yankee game. Now, I fast forward the other team
until the sevent three. Then I watch each the Yankee
turn at back. I'm not gonna sit for a three
hour game.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
But I am.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Passionate about baseball. And although I was a great book
to a Dodger fan and hated the Yankees for years,
when I was head of Columbia Records at CBS, CBS
bought the Yankee so it was now a company team
and I had any ticket I wanted. So that's when
(46:14):
I became a big Yankee fan. So sports had been
a wonderful passion. I would say I just watched pretty
much every match at the FRONT Open. I love watching tennis.
I go to the US Open. I certain named football
(46:34):
season and Sunday Sport's my share. So I and I've
got four children, three of whom were sons, two of
whom are great sports fans. So I do follow sports.
I also follow Broadway. Now that's part of music, but
(46:57):
it's a.
Speaker 5 (46:57):
Little more than that.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
And I grew up Undergod A Live missing going to
the auditions for Cabaret Columbia and My Fair Lady Westside
Story Cabaret Chicago.
Speaker 8 (47:12):
I got so to this day.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I mean, I mean very proud of Alicia Keys. I
remember the three times to see Hell's Kitchen, which is
up for thirteen tonys. And I do keep up with
Broadway unique American phenomenon. I do love theater. What helps
make New York special, So I would say those apart
(47:38):
from travel and family, I'm very family conscious and I
have four teens and ekline children and we do at
least two family trips a year, so they've got it.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
This is interesting because you're a foodie. I don't know
if you've been to this restaurant. I sort of discovered
I hadn't been there. It's called a Vina, a b
e Na on East sixty sixth Streets.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
It's spectacular.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So I decide I'm going to take two of my
best closest friends who you know well, Alan Grubman and
David Geffen.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Boused lugs with both of them last week. Yeah, well
I got a call, so we've prephoned and we're going
at So.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
That's that's a tough audience, right, And they literally raved
about it. They thought it was fantastic. But it raises
a question for me because I'm so close to both
of them, and you're such a great storyteller. Do you
have a story about David Geffen and working with him
and and or Allan? I know you've been close to
both of them.
Speaker 8 (48:55):
That you can speak of.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
Well, I know them both are Well, I do you
have a story. I hope David doesn't mind my room Inissing.
I met David Geffer before he became David Geffer, not
that that wasn't his name, but you know, he for
those of your audience who don't know, he is an
(49:20):
incredible businessman, art follower, discoverer of talent. And you know,
I don't know what I actually have two stories of David.
But I was head of Columbia and signing all the
acts that have been to He came to me, he says,
you know you're making ordinary income. Sell he said, And
(49:44):
I've gotten the publishing of Jarlie Mitchellton prog post of wonderful, young, new,
fabulous songwriter. He says, I am going to We ought
a brand new company and I would like you to
(50:04):
run it. Will be joint venture partners fifty to fifteen.
That's a big incentive. And that was I had gotten
many offers, but that was the most attractive booker I
ever got. And we were seriously considering going into business
together when David became ill and he was out of
(50:31):
commission for several months. And when he got out of
better from that illness, curing Elvinans, we had lunch together
at the bubbly loose Hotel liver Agether and he said,
you know, I've had so much time to think of this.
(50:51):
He said, you're the hand of a label Columbia become
classical artists, middle of the road artist, rock artists. I'm
forty country. You've got one hundred two hundred artists. You're
used to running a label, and we're starting from the scribes.
You've got to promise me that we will never have
(51:13):
more than ten honors. I said, David, you're being unrealistic,
first of all, knowing back to one hundred percent. So
if you're only having ten artists, you're gonna end up
with two, three or four, and that's not a record company,
(51:35):
so he said, but I'm used to being a manager,
and you know you can't be more than a manager
to a few. So we both realize that our vision
would be different, and rather than argue, and he used
to find out with great success, how many artists he
(51:56):
did end up with on Asylum records that made a billionaire,
we agreed to disagree the other when he began he
really managed represented totally consumed by Paul. One female artist
(52:17):
by the name of Laura Nero. Lauren Arrow wrote wedding
belt Blues and had with them when I died with books,
went to you to see when it set to mention
she became an artist in her own unique way, very
very unique for those of your audience who don't know
(52:39):
of the Greek Lauren Nero. David was consumed by lauraw understandably,
I was negotiating with them sale of her music publishing company.
She was an artist on Columbia and when David started
(53:00):
for a new company, obviously Maura was to be part
of it. And I'm in my office one day and
I get a call from more near him. She said,
I am terribly both disappointed and depressed. I love David,
I'm indebted to David, but he's starting a brand new company,
(53:25):
and you're not fighting for me.
Speaker 8 (53:27):
You're not bidding for me, you're not interested in me.
Speaker 4 (53:32):
Why, I said, because I only know of you to David,
and he's I never saw such a close teeth as
the two of you, So it never occurred to me
since my dream was to be on Columbia Records. Look
at the artist for uster you Bill, I'm so proud
(53:57):
of that. How could you affords starting a new label?
You couldn't turn those artists over? I said, so what
are you saying? She said, I love David, but I
want to stay on Columbia Records. David did not speak
to me for a year, a full year, and then
(54:17):
one day he called me and he said, let's go
back to being friends. I get it. I'm now running
a record company. How could you let autists go? It's
a manager starts their own record label. You can't give
(54:38):
up on that. I get it now, and it wasn't
your doing, and so we went back to being good friends. Yeah,
those are two debugausing stories.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Clive, who are you listening to today? Knowing you're you know,
your white brilliance of the talent you've worked with, and
music and high so passion. Who are you listening to today?
Who's impressing you?
Speaker 4 (55:04):
I have very little time to listen to outside music.
What I do listen to to keep caring even now,
I listen to it pretty much every major artist, new
artist as they come to break a format, so that
(55:26):
over the last you know, last of you. Certainly I
listened to Taylors Weft and Kendrick Lamar and great whether
it's pop music or hip hop, to see why are
they breaking records like this? Breaking records meaning statistical records,
being nominated for more Grammys or drawing more people, or
(55:50):
entering charts at number one time and again what makes
them special? So I don't like going over the top.
You never know who you spend the night, you know,
an evening at dinnerware. You want to be current. So
almost all my listening is to new records as they
(56:14):
go into the top ten of the genre music that
they're in, so that I am current and we don't
spend time reminiscing, but that I could talk about today
pretty much as today it iss if I had my way.
(56:36):
I've got to tell you, I would say, lthough you're
not asking, who would be my leaving Springsteen and Bob
Dylan and Patty Smith's aside, who would be my two
favorite artists that I would listen to. One would be
(56:57):
Simon golf Uncle. To me, the songs that Paul have
written to me the finest American song and I know
why he was the first George Gershwin awardee a few
years ago. Is Paul Simon. He was the John Lennon
(57:18):
and Paul McCartney of America. And I loved Simon and
golf Uckle. Indeed, at that Carnegie Hall event that I
told you about, I would say the artist that got
the most reaction, believe it or not, to the point,
by the least half of the twenty eight hundred CA
(57:39):
Pasini ended up sobbing when they heard audiogolf Uncle sincred jilbacchumble.
I mean when he went into sale on silver Burn.
I got to tell you there was not a dry
eye in the house, and out of sentiment was one
(58:01):
that they broke through. The album that I played the
most was an artist I had nothing to do with,
but it was a Mamas and the Papas California Dreaming,
and those artists, those are the artists, those are the
albums on Spotify, Apple. But I'm listen to. But I
(58:23):
primarily listened to new artists and new songs, you know,
becoming popular.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
So I have to ask you.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
We've kept you here for a little over an hour,
and this has been literally a privilege and a lot
of fun for Paul and for me. But I was
reading where you were talking about your career and you said,
I get paid to worry. So question is what causes
you to worry? And at ninety two, what causes you
(59:05):
to worry?
Speaker 4 (59:08):
Well, Korean wise, maybe because my parents died unexpectedly from
my high blood pressure. Now there's a cure. I take
a pill. I would be dead if I didn't take
a pill every morning. My attitude, coming from New York
being Jewers don't come from overcomefortent to everything possible to
(59:34):
make sure that the potential of every record is filled.
So I worried at every stage of a record without
assuming automatically, and you come up with solutions. For example,
Alicia keys first singles Fallen, she seemed like an automatic, gorgeous,
(59:59):
great song, great record, but then the unexpected gump, the
pop stations saying, look, it's a little too urban break
at R and B first, and the R and B
stations are saying it's a little too pop unexpectedly, and
you gotta always be prepared for the unexpected. I see
(01:00:23):
so many executives overcomfort and aggressively so and not worried
about failures. So it prompted me worrying, my godness is
going to fall between the chairs. How do I overcome this?
I wrote a letter to Oprah Winfrey and said, Oprah,
(01:00:44):
what you do for books and the authors unbelievable giving
attention to it that they would not otherwise get. You're
a powerhouse of discovery, but you've not done in music,
and there is a new kind of R and B
neo souls. I said. There are at least three young females,
(01:01:07):
one of which I have is AlSi Keys. The other
two were India Ree and Telly Price Tilstan. I said,
why don't you do for music on your show what
you do for books and authors? It's so important right
now for what these new orders, all female are doing.
(01:01:29):
She called me the next day she said, I have
a dinner Saturday night in Chicago. Do you call David
certify that Alicia Keys is good in person, outstanding in person?
I said, yes I do. She said, if you send
it to Chicago and she performs at my dinner and.
Speaker 8 (01:01:54):
It's as good as you say, I will learn every.
Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
Word that I will put her on with the other
two women not on your label on my TV show,
but for her, I will be two weddings. I will
know every word of that song, and it will be meaningful.
Alisha went to Chicago, knocked everybody out in the dinner.
(01:02:23):
It gets to the TV show Oprah keeps a word,
knows every word A fallen Alisha's things with backdrop to
dning by Oprah. The show is over. If you ever
watched it, you'll see them both.
Speaker 6 (01:02:41):
Thank me.
Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
It was an original idea of that paid off as
soon as that show was over falland became a huge
hit in every genre. So the worry paid off and
the solution paid off. I find in business that war
carrying helps making sure that every effort is made. You
(01:03:05):
never know when something's going to come up and prevent
this success from occurring. So I think an executive that
worries but doesn't get paralyzed and in stimulated to think
of solutions has much more success than somebody who's either
(01:03:28):
braggadocio or overconfident and things it's all going to happen naturally.
It doesn't happen that way naturally. You've got to be
vigilant and it helps to worry. In early talking, as
we get near the end of this interview, one of
you brought up and we haven't touched on it. And
(01:03:52):
that is what happens in most In many cases, when
artists are convinced they have to write themselves. What is
the history then? So the history with Barry Manilow is
very different from the history, for example, with either Melissa
(01:04:15):
Manchester or Tell the Dame Barry. When Mandy makes it,
when looks like we made it, makes it, and trying
to get the feeling them I write the songs, he said, Look,
I'm a writer. Every time Clive comes with his two songs,
I never heard them as being better than my songs.
(01:04:38):
But I trusted not with the track record. My job
was to come up with the arrangement. What is he hearing?
Not from a negative point of view, what is he
hearing that I never hear? And now how do I
come up with them? Which he always did with the
(01:04:59):
great arrangements with those songs that I came up with
that made them clossets. When it came to Melissa, she
did write Midnight Blue and Come In from the Rain.
But a pop artist in those years, Paul would do
three albums, be believe it or not. And if you're
(01:05:22):
a pop artist.
Speaker 8 (01:05:23):
You've gotta have single after single.
Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
After single, or you don't sell anywhere near than those albums.
And at his single, so I said to Melissa, why
don't we do what I'd do with Barry. The two
of you were great friends because I gave her Don't
Cry out Loud, and I gave her you sit here
how she talks about you. She had big, big hits
(01:05:50):
with them in addition to her own songs of Midnight
Blue and Come In from the Rain. And she looked
me one day she said, look, I appreciate these souls
you gave me, but for the future, I don't want
to record outside songs. He said to me, I'm Joni Mitchell.
(01:06:15):
Jony Mitchell would never do an outside song. I said,
look to me, you're a young Streisand and it's different
from Joni Mitchell, and you right, well, but look at
the huge success. She loved Barry and there was no
envy there. She said, I have an image of the
artist I want to be, and that's Jony Mitchell. It's
(01:06:39):
not a female Bearry monologue. Even though I love Barry.
About eight years ago, I go to the cabaret in
New York called fifty four Below, and I seen the
more sir and I go by stage. We never had
a fight. She never had a hit again to that
song discussion, because she only wrote for herself, and she
(01:07:03):
never wrote a hit for herself. I know I could
have hit after his song Fire. And she looked at
me because she's wonderful. She sang from me and coning
you Hall. She said, how did you love me? I
was in my twenties. When I think back of your expertise,
(01:07:25):
and I think back me in my mid twenties. What
did I know that you know? Compared to what you know?
You should have given me electric shock therapy. Of course,
when you get into a difference of opinions, even that
doesn't work. An other example is tail of Date. I
(01:07:49):
bought a master that I had nothing to do with,
and it was a hit and all of a sudden,
we had to come up with the album, and I
came up with nine of the songs. Tail had one
hit after another to the points that an album of
the greatest kids, So two and a half million couppies,
and all of a sudden, one day she comes up.
(01:08:12):
We were all very friendly.
Speaker 8 (01:08:13):
She said, everybody's after.
Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
Me to collaborate and write.
Speaker 8 (01:08:18):
I said, I understand that.
Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
I said, because you're selling millions of albums, so look
at the copyright. Well they get me. Are you a writer?
I'm not saying you're not. She said, give me a
shot to see I'm on to write. I'll collaborate. A
year passes, I call her, I'm not ready yet. Two
stories two years past, I said, Tailor. When you were
(01:08:43):
a pop artis public doesn't know when you Bill Justin's
seen you're having flops. They won't know that you're not
coming with any record. It's over two years by the
time she came with that album, no single developed, had
had a single, and three years that career was over.
(01:09:03):
See too many years later, but when you get into
that area, it was very history is shown making the
right judgments, coming up with brilliant arrangements, and both Melissa
and Taylor, two wonderful things, could have had much bigger
(01:09:24):
careers if they went to the professional songwriter. Then last
Night of the Songwriters all the faith you know to me,
Jab and Diane Lawrenjean Pitchmit. Anyway, those are my stories
regarding songs and artless you know, Clive.
Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Uh No, we'd ask this question, is there anyone working now?
I mean, even though I must say the analogy would
be there's only one Sinatra. I've watched it for years
and years and there was only one guy that was him.
I mean, is there anyone working now who reminds you
of yourself? If they exist? And I hold the analogy
(01:10:13):
of Sinatra? I think you hold him unto.
Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
Obviously, Well, I'm very admiring, and I'm sure he works
in his own style and his own way. But Monty Libman,
who runs some public records and a wonderful orders Frostuff
and it includes Taylor Swift on the weekend and Drake
(01:10:41):
and Ariana Grande. And you know, I'm not there on
day to day, but I know Monty and he's really
a great music plan and he puts together a team
of executives that is probably Avery when the Goldstein of
and that is a reason for the normal success. But
(01:11:05):
I don't know what you've done regarding songs for audience
or we all have our own the natures.
Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Your credentials are certainly so unique, Clive. And to have
known you and not profess to know you well well well,
but to have been in your presence and as a
person that has total passion for what I do for
a lot of years. Skip and eye and I'll let
Skip jump in. But we are so so touched that
(01:11:38):
you're able to give us the time, and I know
we could probably do hours and hours and days because
you're that unique. I still love the way you dress.
Between you and Ahmed Urdigen, I learned a lot, if
you remember our boy, and I thank you so much, Clive.
I look forward to seeing you when I get to
(01:11:59):
New York. We always run into each other at Polo.
Maybe it's a learned down which I think you'll agree
is still one of the finest restaurants in the city.
Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Great.
Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Both are great, and I'll send you I'll send you
my schedule when I'll be in Paris in the event
I put the right ties.
Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
No, I want to come see you in person. Let's
talk of you and your career and your magnetism is
alive perform us. I was spending a few months in
Miami here waiting for words that you'd be playing near
U to come see you again, to perform. I mean,
(01:12:42):
you are a great live performer, great autist in Europe.
Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
I'll be there in February in March. We've already set
the dates next February in March, Cliss.
Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Oh great, well, let me know, and I will hope
to be there and hope to come and joy and sleep.
Your your your talent and uh, Skip, you're a better
give the best Edie Badskin.
Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I definitely was.
Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
She just loves you.
Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
When we started this, I said, you know, I mentioned
to her, you know, it's interesting you think of these
these famous people in life with the one that are
known with one name Madonna cher Well, Clive, you fit
right into that group and and it's a privilege for
us to be able to have you on. Really appreciate
your taking the time. Well, thank you, my best see bow,
(01:13:36):
thank you, thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Be well.
Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Our Away with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtogg, with supervising producer
and editor Marcy Depina.
Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
It was en engineered by Todd Carlum and Graham Gibson,
mixed and mastered by the wonderful Merry Dude.
Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave
us a review.
Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy
Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, this
is Paul Anka.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And my name is Skip Bronson.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We've been friends for decades and we've decided to let
you in on our late night phone calls by starting
a new podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And welcome to our Way. We'd like you to meet
some real good friends of ours.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You're leaders in entertainment and.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even as sitting
president or two.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Join us as we ask the questions they've not been
asked before.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Tell it like it is, and even sing a song
or two.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
But what is it that you look for in an
artist before deciding to work with them?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
You need this speciology. If they're a writer, it's got
to be distinctive, if you neede the way Springsteen Patty
Smith were an or to this day. If you're a
vocalist unique, I mean Whitney used it, Okay, So you're
looking for those artists that can't be stars.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So hey, Paul, Paul's my name, show business is my game.
It's you again. I gotta clock how many times that
you called and I hear, Hey, Paul, and then you
gotta do the same. Now I'm looking back at the
litany of our relationship. How do we do this every day?
But hey, I think we should do like a breathing
(01:48):
thing like the phone ring, you go, hey, Skip.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
I like that. At least you put some little humor.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
All right.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Well, you know the funny thing is if one of
us really has something to say, just jump right on it,
you know, like if it's something well you usually.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Do though you uhould call me. You never say to
me like you'll say, hey, Paul, like today. But the
ones I like is You'll never believe what happened just
twenty minutes. You'll never believe who just called? Did you
just hear about?
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Man?
Speaker 6 (02:26):
I had a.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Great meal at Stelli's. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
What a great restaurant, and I want to share that.
And the guy are my buddy. Clive Davis is a
big foodie. Yeah, okay, among everything that he does. Our
guest tomorrow, Clive Davis is among all the things that
he does musically, and we're going to ask him what
he does for, you know, off the music scene. One
(02:52):
of the things I'm sure you'll mention is restaurants because
I meet him in Paris every now and then. I
know he loves that. He's an impeccable dresser, and he's
just so smart and brilliant and has been and is
a force in this music business. And I know he
knows d you know he's oh yeah, yeah, my wife
and he go way back. It's fascinating to me that
(03:14):
Clive Davis ninety two years old and you still see
him everywhere speaking in restaurants. I mean he's out, he's
out like every night, he's you know, working during the day,
ninety two, never thinking about the number, just going out
and getting it done.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
And what a what a career.
Speaker 7 (03:32):
I mean the artist that he's that he is not
only discovered but molded these artists where he got them
to do things that maybe they didn't typically want to do.
Pretty amazing guy. Yeah, he really is, you know what.
You and I like people who have great stories, but
also who are great storytellers, and I think that's Clive Davis.
(03:55):
He's the guy with great stories and he's a great storyteller.
So it should be fun. You know him forever?
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Right, Oh A long time, long long time?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Did you ever work with him or not really, you know,
probably a regret I've never had him in my life
in terms of overseeing a project with me. I've always
been kind of self contained and wound up with whomever.
But certainly someone I would have liked to have worked with.
But you know, I was kind of discovered as a kid.
(04:25):
You know, I left home at fifteen. I wound up
with another musical genius, Don Costa, so they kind of
controlled the first many years of my life. You know,
I've wound up with people like that, and Costa was
in my life for a lot of years. And Rick
Hall at a muscle shoals, you know, with Clive, and
(04:45):
you'll find out when we talked to him, he discovered
these people. When he found them, they were nobody, you know.
I mean that in the gentlest sense. They didn't know
if they could write, they didn't know if they could perform.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
He molded most of those people, not unlike what David
Geffen did with his people. So I mean, unfortunately I
was cursed because I got discovered at fifteen, and I
didn't have a David or a Clive in my even
though David approached me. I'll never forget it. It was
right near the old Americana Hotel and he was just
starting out as an agent. We ran right into each
(05:21):
other on sixth Avenue or seventh or something. So I
want to represent you, and I really love what you're
doing and I can really help you.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
He's a young guy, right, and I was with Irving
Felt the Nerve was my manager and looking after me.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Of course I was very loyal to IRV. But no,
there was no way that I could ever hook up
with Clive or David. Well, there's still time, Yeah, there
is still time, There's no question about it. But I
don't know that right now. I want to go on
a record studio with anybody.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's a change business today. Skip people that go in
studios and make product. People never hear it. They don't
let alone buy it. The streaming world, it's all about
the streaming.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
The other thing I want to ask him about.
Speaker 7 (06:03):
He's known for being a worrier, and I want to
ask him about that, like why he worries and do
you still worry at ninety two?
Speaker 6 (06:11):
Do you worry about anything at ninety two other than
you know, getting up the next day.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
That's something I can identify it with his worry.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I just I won't. I can't be a worrier. I
don't like jealousy, I don't like guilt, and I don't
like worry. Kind of lived like that. It just wasted time.
Speaker 7 (06:27):
I know that to be true, knowing the way to do. Sorry,
Just what are you doing? You're going to just hang
You're going to hang here for a while. You're going
to be in town for a while.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I'm home now.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I'm just with the writer on the Broadway show, which
is developing, and I'm finishing my documentary. We're about a
few months away from that, and that's really consuming. That
in the Broadway show, and then that's pretty much it.
And then I'm going to see I'm going to see
you for dinner with that lawyer friend of yours, Alan Gorublin. Yeah,
(06:57):
I'm going to take him all to dinner to a couple.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
Yeah, it'll be fun.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I just want to see him chewing a bone for
twenty hours.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
You can count it. That's in the program. I can
tell you that right now.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Hey, it's it's absolutely something I demand. If I'm going
to pick up the check, you pick up that bone,
and I pick up the check. How's that that's the
cover charge? Cover church, as long as it leaves enough
for my dog because he hates dogs. You know, don't
(07:30):
get him going with dog.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
I'm aware, No, I know that.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
I don't think they're too fonded.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Well, you're a gigantic dog, you'll they'll be leftovers. You're giking. Well, yeah,
we'll have a yeah, what is it? Thought? We one
hundred and fifty pounds?
Speaker 5 (07:45):
No, a hundred.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
No, she's close to two hundred close, Oh, two hundred
pounds dog. Come on, baby, she is something else, the
heaviest dog I've ever been with, no doubt.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Fix me up. Like somebody said to me the other day,
you and michelle'll ever have sex? Standing up?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I said no, because I'm a fragi'll drop me, little
old Paul. I'll never survived that. Well the talk exactly.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
All right, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna hit the hay
and I'm gonna talk to you tomorrow for sure.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
Oh, I think we can bet on that. Sleep warm
all right?
Speaker 6 (08:26):
Let him?
Speaker 5 (08:27):
I love you too.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
You know, we've had a lot of guests on here, Skip,
and I've got to tell you that this is very.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Special for me.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
You know, being in this business as I have been
blessed for, you know, over sixty years, and starting at
the inception when pop music was in its infancy stage,
I got to know a lot of those that were
very instrumental in the changes that occurred in our industry.
But our next guest, just his name would suffice, but
(09:02):
obviously it wouldn't because there's so much that goes with it.
The openness of this man, the breath of the music
that he's championed, is just astonishing. And his ears, they're
always been fresh, they're always current. And I can't tell
you how honored I am. Even though I've known him
through the years and we've shared moments together, I am
(09:25):
so so thrilled, and I know you are to have
with us for our audience and for us to be
able to talk with the one and the only, and
I mean.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
That he is.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I've seen them, as I said, from the fifties on,
but we have with us today, mister Clive Davis.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
High Clive. I'm so happy to'd be with you guys.
So let's make it special.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Yes we will.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Clive Sailo to Richard Bronson, Skip Bronson, Edie Baskin's husband.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
That's right, I know him, p Ian's are you kidding?
I knew him and of course I know he longer
and better. Please send my very best.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
She loves you so.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Much, Clive.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Before we chronologically and go back to Crown Heights, I
want to get to the meat of something that's on
all of our minds today. Could you tell us what's
your feeling and where is the music industry? Where is
it going? With AI and everything that we're very much
aware of? Where have we landed? And what does your
gut tell you where is it going? Knowing we're always
(10:28):
going to know music in our lives.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
You know, AI will be a fact, but I'm not
here to predict. I don't know enough. We've just got
to be vigilant and careful that our creative members, our
creative population, our created genius, creative geniuses are protected and
(10:53):
that human creativity is protected. But there's no clear answer
right now. Has got to be vigilant, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
It always just comes back to gut too. I think
you know when you're when you're trying to make decisions,
how much of what you do now would you say
was impacted by how you grew up in Crown heights
in a neighborhood that was really a melting pot. So
it's not like I grew up in Hertford, Connecticut, and
I lived in an area where like on the Jewish
(11:22):
holidays the schools had to close. You know, it was
everybody was the same or same type of person or
had the same background. But the way you grew up,
you grew up in a place that you know, it's
just every there was so many different cultures that were involved.
I'm just curious how that how that impacted you.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Well, look, we're going back ninety years. So back when
I got in music by Action Total Access, I had
studied law in Harvard. I was again a predigions law
fernal just by luck, they have to rupt and Columbia
(12:01):
Records and Bill Bailey and CBS. And I remember getting
an offer from an alumnus of the law firm who
was chief attorney for Columbia.
Speaker 8 (12:14):
Records, and he asked.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
We were about thirty five lawyers. Okay, there are only
four of us that were doing non litigation. I was,
by luck doing the contract work for a talent agency,
Columbia Artists Management eight, that had formerly been part of
(12:37):
Columbia Records. He asked to see the person that was
doing the contracts. It was me, and he offered me
to become general counsel for Columbia Records. I was three
years out of law school, and I knew since the
(12:59):
law firm, I really only had well to do affluent
individuals like Goal Pealing or corporations like CBS. I would
never I'd had no money. My parents died when I
was eighteen, independent of each other. I had four thousand
dollars to my name. I didn't know anybody with money
(13:22):
that could be a client of that firm, so I
would be a service partner. I go into this because
when I went to see Ralph Colin, who represented the
lawyer whose client was Columbia Records, for advice, he said,
the record business is not for you. He said, look
(13:46):
at you. You wearing tacking fans. You're wearing a queen's
four jacket. You went to Harvard. The record business is
not for you.
Speaker 8 (13:57):
Most of them.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Were gold chains and the image of the hit MANJIV talking.
He didn't know that I grew up in Crownheight. E
didn't know that my youth was spent in a melting pot,
and that my schooling was never private. It was all public.
(14:18):
I went to pis for in sixty one, I went
to arrestmus Hall High School.
Speaker 8 (14:25):
It's not that I was three, but I know I knew.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
The common folk and he didn't know that part of me,
and that part of me gave me the answer that
I didn't have a future at that law firm other
than to be a servant's lawyer, and that I would
take the shot and go to Columbia Records. So that
(14:54):
shows you how accidental like. Music was just a part
of my life that I grew up collecting and some
of my friends did forty fives. I knew the hits
of the day. In New York there was a program
called the Make Polly ballro with Mountain Block, and that's
(15:14):
what I listened to to know Sinatra, Pick Kyne's, Perry Combo,
Being Closed, Resigner, Shore King Start. But it was just
a part of my life.
Speaker 8 (15:26):
I mean, I liked it, but it's not that I
had the ambition, the drive, or remotely knew that I
might end up in life having what we called ears.
So that answers your question about Crown Heights.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You know, Clive, all of us in the industry. We've
constantly amazed by your ability to not only recognize and
foster talent reformers, but also you always recognize a timeless song.
And I don't think anyone has embodied both sides of
the inn are like you did. I mean, at Columbia,
(16:01):
he worked mostly with rock acts who wrote their own material,
and that changed obviously when you went to Arista. But
is it more challenging to recognize a timeless artist or
a timeless song?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, let me tell you. Let me fill instant spaces here.
I went over to Columbia. I became the attorney for
Columbia on the grounds of synergy, of the direction of
Phil Pennalley. We bought Fender guitar, we bought Leslie speakers,
we bought ste Grapecianos, and god In bleepresent by mentor
(16:38):
and by boss was being promoted as the group president.
And he came to me and he said, I'm being
made a group president, and since you're the only one
at Columbia who has that contact with all those musical
(16:59):
instruments companies, I'm going to make you head, if you like,
of the musical instrument division. He didn't no, nor did
I of any DNA in music or that it would
become my life person. But the next morning when I
(17:20):
came in, I got a call from him. He said,
please come in because our executive vice president, Norman not
he wants to move to La Joya. You might not
want to move to Lawyer with and it was located.
And so I'm going to make him the head of
(17:41):
the musical Instruments division, and I'm going to make you
the head of Columbia Records. I'm a slabagas that believe
in not is how I became head of Columbia Records.
And yes to watching weaving looking seeing that the a
(18:04):
and armed men who did Tony Bennett and Andy woodiams in,
Bob streisand and Mix Miller himself, I had a gay
in arm. None of them kept vigilant to what was
happening in the growth of rock music, but there was
a pending rock revolution. I ended up at Monterey. Bob
(18:27):
My first deal was the Blue Out. If you under
San Francisco, be short of his flowers in your hair.
My epiphany in nineteen sixty seven, because I was not
remotely thinking I would never sign orders, was that I
was there with Jennis Joplin performed during the day totally unknown.
(18:50):
A member of the group called big Brother in the
holding company, and I really got an epiphany I would
have to sign this artist. I never thought I'd signed
an artist, but I did. I just felt it in
my bones, and right after that I signed Blood Fluting Tears, Chicago, Santana.
(19:15):
Irtwood didn't fire like that. They were mostly self contained artists.
At the height of the success that brought Columbia from
number three to number one, a head of capital and RCA,
CBS Columbia Records faced a charge from a guy that
(19:38):
was convicted in fraud that there could be payola in
the record industry and even at Columbia Record. To protect
their CBS broadcasting system, the lawyers have bound said separate
yourself from there. We can't afford to lose the license.
(19:58):
I was let go. Life is never up, up up,
and that's what makes my documentary still among the top
five on Netflix to this very day and now just
been added by PBS, because it's not a story of
up up up, it's his story as well, about resilience,
(20:22):
withstanding challenges and learning to overcome them. I go into
this background pall because when I started a brand new company, Arison,
named after my high school and all New York High
School on the Society. I had just been the head
(20:42):
of the largest directed company in the world and Rocket changed.
Rock was now punk, rock was now new wave with
Patty Smith Louie Graham Parker. I signed them because I
loved the rock background, and that's why I'm in the
rock and roll all of tame. But I would never
(21:03):
be a major based on what those artists would sell.
So I had to test my ears because the only
way that albums went gold, platinum and multi platinum were
from their singles.
Speaker 8 (21:20):
And so I said to myself, yes.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
You've gotten confidence, and the rock artists that you discovered,
including Springsteen and Billy Joel, are unique special, but can
you pick a hit song because it's singles that are
making golden platinum albums. And I wanted to be a
(21:46):
major label. I wanted to be back as the biggest company,
compete against Columbia.
Speaker 8 (21:52):
RCAA Capital and so yes.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Right at the very beginning, when I signed Barry Manilow
as the first artist on Ariston, he was totally unknown.
He had one album out to show, literally five thousand copies.
He only thought of himself as a writer arranger who
(22:19):
is not only for himself. He was working with Ben
Midler in that capacity. I listened to the albums on
what would have been his second the song that would
have been the second album A Barry and I said,
it's a good album. You've got good songs, you don't
(22:44):
have a hit single. He looked at me, startled, and
I said, give me. It's important for me to see
if I could come up with a hit song. You
and I did come up with. Mandy was called Brandy
(23:04):
in the demo, but Brandy You're a Fine Girl had
already been a hit on Epic with looking Glass, so
I changed the name from Brandy to Bandy and we
went over the arrangement. At first, Barry thought I was
looking for an uptempo. I said, no, it's a ballad,
(23:26):
and he came up with a brilliant arrangement. And our team,
that is Barry and I launched his career with Mandy
and the first record on Ours, Mandy went straight to
number one. So what happened then was that he said, okay,
(23:52):
you're signing. You signed me because when I opened for
DM wowick con Central Park, you said I was performer.
I was a great showman. I never thought of myself.
To this day, he doesn't think of himself, but he
is fifty years later selling out Radio City two weeks
(24:17):
a year. It's just in the London Palladium, selling fourteen
dates at age eighty sellouts. Just sent me a clip
from Manchester thirteen thousand sell out, so he gave me
our deal. Pall and Skip were all right, you're gonna
(24:37):
get two songs on every album. I'm Barry in a
rape the rest of the album, and you automatically have
two songs. So I made those two songs count. Because
although Barry is to his credit, is in the songwriting's
(24:58):
Hall of Fame, he wrote complic about it. He wrote
this funt see you even now. But I came up
with I write the songs can't Smile without You, looks
like we made it. I made it through the rain,
trying to get to feeling again. Every song became a big,
(25:20):
big being hit, so that he became a multi platinum
album artist and it really held first maybe ten years.
Samaris give us a major shot at being an important
alternative to Columbia and RCA.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Clive, You've been apart obviously have so many amazing artists
under your guidance and your talent.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
But it was curious.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I remember when you didn't sign John Mellencamp because you
felt he was too similar to Springsteen. Were there any
other artists that, let's say, once you wanted them but
they got away? Is anyone you look back?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Weather is the two artists. But let me tell you
a good story that only came up a few years ago.
For many years when I was being interviewed what big
artists did, I pans out and I always said the
biggest artist I passed on was John Mellencamp.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
John Cougar Melancamp.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I also with everybody else in the industry, and this
became He became a big artist with one album, but
never really after that, and that was met Folk, the
meat Boat situation. Having listened to the Jim Steinman songs, theatricals,
(26:46):
I and everybody else passed on that one album. But
it's not that meat Folk had ten more albums like that.
The Bad Out of Bell was big, huge, but that
was It was John Mellencamp who wrote Jack and Dan
who became a great original rock artist. So come with
(27:10):
me to in Lane's restaurant. Jan Winner is having a
dinner the night before he's intucted into the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame, and I'm standing there. They're only
about sixty of percent. And I'm standing there with Bruce Springsteen,
with John Mellencamp, with Jackson Brown, and with Dawn Anley
(27:35):
having drinks before dinners when a voice from the microphone says,
wherever you're standing, you guys, sit at that table. That's
where we're gonna have dinner.
Speaker 8 (27:49):
So when sitting down, I was.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
The only quote suit at that table, and they were
each saying whether who auditioned for me? And here Mellencamp
on my left is Springstein, on his left is Melenchamp.
I said, John, in every interview, you are the biggest
(28:12):
artists that I ever fansed on on And the reason
that I can't believe it because he's sitting between us
right now, it goes Springstein. I thought at that time
you were pretty close to Springsteen. I had signed the
original and he said to me, let me rest your
(28:38):
anxiety or your concern will put you in peace. Eight
weeks before I auditioned from you, I was in a
cover band in Las Vegas, your listeners. A cover band
is a band that has no original songs but just
covers the big of the day. Could be fun, could
(29:02):
be entertaining, but it is not creatively credible. He said,
you're a great singer, a manager of David Bowie, and
he said, if you leave the band and begin writing
or seeing if you can write, I will use my
(29:25):
decision as managing one of the great old time orders
to get you audition before the leading talent signs of
the day, he said. Eight weeks I left the band,
he said, and started writing, and eight weeks after I
(29:47):
left that cup of band, I get a call. I'm
a new audition for you. Rest easy. I was not
a jack and Diane riger that I became. My biggest
influence was Blue Springstein at the time. There's no doubt
that I'd be too close. I was not worthy of
(30:10):
being signed when I listened to you, and it certainly
was not the artist and writer about i'd become. So
that's the full story.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
For very cool, Very cool.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Both you and Paul two legends in the music industry,
and you each have your own way of you know,
approaching different songs and different artists. But you've discovered and
nurtured the talent of so many artists. But what is
it that you look for in an artist before deciding
to work with them. What is the thing that you
when you meet a new artist, What is that thing
that you say to yourself, they have to check that box?
Speaker 4 (30:56):
What is that uniqueness? Speciality? If they're a writer, it's
got to be distinctive, unique the way Springsteen, Patty Smith
were and or to this day. If you're a vocalist unique,
I mean Whitney Houston stun me at her audition. So
(31:19):
you're looking for those artists that can be stars. If
they're not a Dylan Springstein or the Light or they
hit songwriter, do they have hit for themselves? That's what
a Lacy Cheese had. She had hits as well as
(31:39):
the stunning, youthful Pru Soda. So you're looking for uniqueness.
And what I've got to tell you in thrilling, because
it just happened to me. I got one of the
calls of a lifetime two weeks ago, three weeks ago
from Carnegie Hall that the New York Philharmonic Pops was
(32:02):
celebrating their forty first birthday, and every song played that
night on April twenty ninth at Cornegie Hall by the
New Boss would be a song that was launched in
my career. And what they didn't tell me is that
they went after all of my artists that I'm signed
(32:28):
and got them that loyalty. I'll never forget. So what
Cornegie Hall, literally six weeks ago, we had Manulo, we
had Dil Warwick, we had Santana with Rob Thomas, we
had Fantasias, and actually, because Springsteen was in Italy, we
(32:53):
got John dollen Camp to Saint Born in the USA.
But it was a night not to be ever forgotten,
and mostly because not only were they still stars, but
fifty years I signed barrin Manilone in nineteen seventy five,
(33:21):
so here we are forty nine years later. I signed
Santana originally in nineteen sixty nine, so there we were
fifty five years later.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
They were all.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
In their individual numbers. They brought the house down.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
The true testament, Clive, because you and I know what
this business is about. You can't control loyalty, You just can't.
But all those people obviously loved you and indebted to you.
But going to Whitney that you mention an amazing.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Career in you.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
We all know you were very much a part of
everything that she was doing. I don't know that people
are aware of the fact. I think you went through
over two hundred songs in considering what you were going
to do. What was that process about with that great
artist as Whitney was.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I went to be talking. Now. Let me see nineteen
eighty three. Whitney was about eighteen or nineteen years old,
and I was told by Jerry Griffith and they and
our guy that worked for me, you got to go
to see her. She's special. And I went to see Whitney.
(34:42):
She was singing backgrounds in a mother's sister used to
Jack and Sweet boarders a club in Manhattan, and she did.
She stepped out and mean, she stepped in front of
the east background. But she shared with the brother Gary,
and she sang two songs, Home from the Wiz and
(35:07):
the song that I had commissioned eight years earlier for
the movie On the Way for Muhammad Ali. The movie
was called The Greatest. The song for was written by
Michael Mansell and the song was the Greatest Love of All,
which of course is one of the great standards today
(35:32):
of all time.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Give this.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
An eighteen or nineteen year old girl sang a song
that had been recorded by George Benson. It was like
a number of eight R and B hit. She sang
it as though I never heard it before. She had
no idea that I was involved, had been above with
that song. I heard her, and my spine tingle the
(35:58):
composers I knew. I even went out to the lobby
afterwards and called Michael Massa to fly in on the
Red Eyes and go with me the next night to
he had been young girl sing the greatest Love the Ball,
not at my request, on her own, doing like I
(36:19):
never heard it before. So when I signed her, and
to show you how unique I felt she was a
lawyer is because Bruce Paul of the lecture, a few
of the labels were interested. I had the advantage because
I was finding songs, and I brought back Diane Warwick,
(36:42):
her first cousin, Bretha Franklin her quote godmother unquote because
Sissy her mother was some backland singer for Arica Sweden's
Grace and he is. But they requested and demanded a
key man cause which was now if I E E
left the company, she would have the right to leave
(37:05):
because I never gave before, never gave after. Had to
get parental corporate approval because I'm your sly its and
self comfort. I got it. She got to cause and
I had to come up. You know, it's like having
Meryl Street, but you don't have the right play or movie.
(37:26):
You got to get the right material. I arraigned for
songwriter showcases in New York at the Roxy La, having
them sing and calling the biggest US successful songwritings to
hear and say so yes, you're under present writing. It
took two years to come up with the material on
(37:50):
that first album. Of course, Michael Masser had a head start,
so that's how we got saving All My Love for
You would she wrote, and all of one. But it
took two years before we were ready with that debut
(38:11):
album Amazing.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
So I'm a bit I'm a big Springsteen fan. When
did you first experience that force of nature that is
Bruce Springsteen? How did that come about?
Speaker 4 (38:22):
When I auditioned at the request of John Hammond and
they in Our Gift to Day, in our man that
worked at Columbia, Bruce was not a force of nation.
Bruce was a folks in it of what captured me
was the uniqueness of his lyrics. And in those days,
(38:47):
if you were a folk singer and it befell Tim
Harden and it could tell Eric Hansensen, you're called, well,
another Bob Dylan. Two things happened with Bruce, and I'll
tell you anecdotes about one. He never moved. He was alone,
(39:08):
and he performed at see the GVS and Maxims Jolson City,
and he didn't have it. He stood behind the microphone
and he's sang is wonderful, unique lyric. When he turned
his album into well known story shared by Bruce and me,
(39:29):
I listen, I said, Bruce, would you consider a very
sensitive subject between an executive and an autist? But I said,
I love your album cuts. I love the imagery, I
love the lyrics. I have a way of making sure
everyone as the company, knows how to market you. And
(39:51):
I did go on closed Circuit TV to read the lyrics.
Bruce has it TV tape me reading all the lyrics
on his album to show that he was not another
Bob Dylan. This was the unique new talent. And indeed
the two of these gentlemen have become the poet laureates
(40:13):
of Americas over the past century. But when he turned
the album in, I said, I love the album cuts.
You can need at least two radio cuts. We need
to get radio. He could have been defensive. Some would
be understandably. He said, Okay, you might be right, and
(40:36):
he is on tape and saying I went to the beats.
I went to the park over the next two weeks,
and I came up with two songs that I never
ever would have written fIF five and asked me to
search my soul for radio friendly cuts. And he came
(41:00):
up blinded by the light and stirred in the night.
So that's one Springsteen story. During that era, Bill Graham
closed for More East and fill More West to rock theaters,
and the headline in the New York Times is rock dying.
(41:23):
We've seen that pretty often. To show that rock and
contemporary music was still alive, I took over the Almendson
Theater in LA for seven consecutive nights, and I mixed
and matched Springsteen with Miles Davis, new writers of the
(41:47):
Purple Saints Backwards Tuck to'hook. The show that contemporary music
was alive. With special talent, I go to rehearsal Ringsteen
comes onstage by himself on a stage as large as
Radio City Music Hall. And he starts singing, and it
(42:12):
was the first time I had seen them outside them
seeing the GV on MAXI Kansas City and I go
up to these stage. I say, Bruce, let me ask you.
You're getting dwarfed by the stage. And I took him
by the hand. I said, is there any material? And
(42:34):
I walked to the left of the stags and we
casually walked to the alway in the other side. Since
a big audience, it's not an intimate little club like
you used to. Is there any way that you can
move around a little bit? Fast forward two years later,
(42:56):
I'm now head of Arist Records. He's read to release
his third album, Playing the bottom Line. John Landa, was manager,
calls me, Bruce is dying for you to see him
at the bottom Line and could you count it? That night,
I was happening to be with Louie the Famousery and
(43:21):
I went with Louke down on the bottom Line and
I'm showing now I had no clue what I'm going
to tell you that Bruce was capable of becoming the
greatest live performa with Mick Jaga in history. There at
the bottom line capacity of five hundred seats was Springsteen
(43:46):
with the East Street Band. Every number he jumped on
every table at the bottom line, a whirling Dirvers. I
had not a clue that he would be common. There's
whirling Divers. Incredibly adamated, fabulous live entertainment. The show ends,
(44:11):
My job was still dropping. I said, Louis, I've got
to go backstage. I go backstage, and there was Bruce
alone in that bottom line dressing room and I opened
the door. It gives me a big smile and he
looks up and he said, Clive, did I move around
(44:35):
and note for you tonight? We both will never forget that.
So that's the background a little bit, lum Prince.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You know, Clive, you're obviously the music man. I mean,
you're so unique in our industry and as a human being.
And you know, I know, I know that music is
your chief pashion in your life. Are there any other
passions you have, I mean, anything else you're very passionate
about that we wouldn't know about.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
I'm passionate about baseball. I watch the Yankees. I tape
it every night, so I go out pretty much for
dinner every night. Okay, I don't. It's my one. I'm
a foodie. I like good restaurants and by myself during
the day, either at the office or elsewhere. I like
(45:31):
going to a good restaurant at night. So let's say
I get home at ten o'clock, I will have takes
every Yankee game. Now, I fast forward the other team
until the sevent three. Then I watch each the Yankee
turn at back. I'm not gonna sit for a three
hour game.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
But I am.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Passionate about baseball. And although I was a great book
to a Dodger fan and hated the Yankees for years,
when I was head of Columbia Records at CBS, CBS
bought the Yankee so it was now a company team
and I had any ticket I wanted. So that's when
(46:14):
I became a big Yankee fan. So sports had been
a wonderful passion. I would say I just watched pretty
much every match at the FRONT Open. I love watching tennis.
I go to the US Open. I certain named football
(46:34):
season and Sunday Sport's my share. So I and I've
got four children, three of whom were sons, two of
whom are great sports fans. So I do follow sports.
I also follow Broadway. Now that's part of music, but
(46:57):
it's a.
Speaker 5 (46:57):
Little more than that.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
And I grew up Undergod A Live missing going to
the auditions for Cabaret Columbia and My Fair Lady Westside
Story Cabaret Chicago.
Speaker 8 (47:12):
I got so to this day.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I mean, I mean very proud of Alicia Keys. I
remember the three times to see Hell's Kitchen, which is
up for thirteen tonys. And I do keep up with
Broadway unique American phenomenon. I do love theater. What helps
make New York special, So I would say those apart
(47:38):
from travel and family, I'm very family conscious and I
have four teens and ekline children and we do at
least two family trips a year, so they've got it.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
This is interesting because you're a foodie. I don't know
if you've been to this restaurant. I sort of discovered
I hadn't been there. It's called a Vina, a b
e Na on East sixty sixth Streets.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
It's spectacular.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So I decide I'm going to take two of my
best closest friends who you know well, Alan Grubman and
David Geffen.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Boused lugs with both of them last week. Yeah, well
I got a call, so we've prephoned and we're going
at So.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
That's that's a tough audience, right, And they literally raved
about it. They thought it was fantastic. But it raises
a question for me because I'm so close to both
of them, and you're such a great storyteller. Do you
have a story about David Geffen and working with him
and and or Allan? I know you've been close to
both of them.
Speaker 8 (48:55):
That you can speak of.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
Well, I know them both are Well, I do you
have a story. I hope David doesn't mind my room Inissing.
I met David Geffer before he became David Geffer, not
that that wasn't his name, but you know, he for
those of your audience who don't know, he is an
(49:20):
incredible businessman, art follower, discoverer of talent. And you know,
I don't know what I actually have two stories of David.
But I was head of Columbia and signing all the
acts that have been to He came to me, he says,
you know you're making ordinary income. Sell he said, And
(49:44):
I've gotten the publishing of Jarlie Mitchellton prog post of wonderful, young, new,
fabulous songwriter. He says, I am going to We ought
a brand new company and I would like you to
(50:04):
run it. Will be joint venture partners fifty to fifteen.
That's a big incentive. And that was I had gotten
many offers, but that was the most attractive booker I
ever got. And we were seriously considering going into business
together when David became ill and he was out of
(50:31):
commission for several months. And when he got out of
better from that illness, curing Elvinans, we had lunch together
at the bubbly loose Hotel liver Agether and he said,
you know, I've had so much time to think of this.
(50:51):
He said, you're the hand of a label Columbia become
classical artists, middle of the road artist, rock artists. I'm
forty country. You've got one hundred two hundred artists. You're
used to running a label, and we're starting from the scribes.
You've got to promise me that we will never have
(51:13):
more than ten honors. I said, David, you're being unrealistic,
first of all, knowing back to one hundred percent. So
if you're only having ten artists, you're gonna end up
with two, three or four, and that's not a record company,
(51:35):
so he said, but I'm used to being a manager,
and you know you can't be more than a manager
to a few. So we both realize that our vision
would be different, and rather than argue, and he used
to find out with great success, how many artists he
(51:56):
did end up with on Asylum records that made a billionaire,
we agreed to disagree the other when he began he
really managed represented totally consumed by Paul. One female artist
(52:17):
by the name of Laura Nero. Lauren Arrow wrote wedding
belt Blues and had with them when I died with books,
went to you to see when it set to mention
she became an artist in her own unique way, very
very unique for those of your audience who don't know
(52:39):
of the Greek Lauren Nero. David was consumed by lauraw understandably,
I was negotiating with them sale of her music publishing company.
She was an artist on Columbia and when David started
(53:00):
for a new company, obviously Maura was to be part
of it. And I'm in my office one day and
I get a call from more near him. She said,
I am terribly both disappointed and depressed. I love David,
I'm indebted to David, but he's starting a brand new company,
(53:25):
and you're not fighting for me.
Speaker 8 (53:27):
You're not bidding for me, you're not interested in me.
Speaker 4 (53:32):
Why, I said, because I only know of you to David,
and he's I never saw such a close teeth as
the two of you, So it never occurred to me
since my dream was to be on Columbia Records. Look
at the artist for uster you Bill, I'm so proud
(53:57):
of that. How could you affords starting a new label?
You couldn't turn those artists over? I said, so what
are you saying? She said, I love David, but I
want to stay on Columbia Records. David did not speak
to me for a year, a full year, and then
(54:17):
one day he called me and he said, let's go
back to being friends. I get it. I'm now running
a record company. How could you let autists go? It's
a manager starts their own record label. You can't give
(54:38):
up on that. I get it now, and it wasn't
your doing, and so we went back to being good friends. Yeah,
those are two debugausing stories.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Clive, who are you listening to today? Knowing you're you know,
your white brilliance of the talent you've worked with, and
music and high so passion. Who are you listening to today?
Who's impressing you?
Speaker 4 (55:04):
I have very little time to listen to outside music.
What I do listen to to keep caring even now,
I listen to it pretty much every major artist, new
artist as they come to break a format, so that
(55:26):
over the last you know, last of you. Certainly I
listened to Taylors Weft and Kendrick Lamar and great whether
it's pop music or hip hop, to see why are
they breaking records like this? Breaking records meaning statistical records,
being nominated for more Grammys or drawing more people, or
(55:50):
entering charts at number one time and again what makes
them special? So I don't like going over the top.
You never know who you spend the night, you know,
an evening at dinnerware. You want to be current. So
almost all my listening is to new records as they
(56:14):
go into the top ten of the genre music that
they're in, so that I am current and we don't
spend time reminiscing, but that I could talk about today
pretty much as today it iss if I had my way.
(56:36):
I've got to tell you, I would say, lthough you're
not asking, who would be my leaving Springsteen and Bob
Dylan and Patty Smith's aside, who would be my two
favorite artists that I would listen to. One would be
(56:57):
Simon golf Uncle. To me, the songs that Paul have
written to me the finest American song and I know
why he was the first George Gershwin awardee a few
years ago. Is Paul Simon. He was the John Lennon
(57:18):
and Paul McCartney of America. And I loved Simon and
golf Uckle. Indeed, at that Carnegie Hall event that I
told you about, I would say the artist that got
the most reaction, believe it or not, to the point,
by the least half of the twenty eight hundred CA
(57:39):
Pasini ended up sobbing when they heard audiogolf Uncle sincred jilbacchumble.
I mean when he went into sale on silver Burn.
I got to tell you there was not a dry
eye in the house, and out of sentiment was one
(58:01):
that they broke through. The album that I played the
most was an artist I had nothing to do with,
but it was a Mamas and the Papas California Dreaming,
and those artists, those are the artists, those are the
albums on Spotify, Apple. But I'm listen to. But I
(58:23):
primarily listened to new artists and new songs, you know,
becoming popular.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
So I have to ask you.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
We've kept you here for a little over an hour,
and this has been literally a privilege and a lot
of fun for Paul and for me. But I was
reading where you were talking about your career and you said,
I get paid to worry. So question is what causes
you to worry? And at ninety two, what causes you
(59:05):
to worry?
Speaker 4 (59:08):
Well, Korean wise, maybe because my parents died unexpectedly from
my high blood pressure. Now there's a cure. I take
a pill. I would be dead if I didn't take
a pill every morning. My attitude, coming from New York
being Jewers don't come from overcomefortent to everything possible to
(59:34):
make sure that the potential of every record is filled.
So I worried at every stage of a record without
assuming automatically, and you come up with solutions. For example,
Alicia keys first singles Fallen, she seemed like an automatic, gorgeous,
(59:59):
great song, great record, but then the unexpected gump, the
pop stations saying, look, it's a little too urban break
at R and B first, and the R and B
stations are saying it's a little too pop unexpectedly, and
you gotta always be prepared for the unexpected. I see
(01:00:23):
so many executives overcomfort and aggressively so and not worried
about failures. So it prompted me worrying, my godness is
going to fall between the chairs. How do I overcome this?
I wrote a letter to Oprah Winfrey and said, Oprah,
(01:00:44):
what you do for books and the authors unbelievable giving
attention to it that they would not otherwise get. You're
a powerhouse of discovery, but you've not done in music,
and there is a new kind of R and B
neo souls. I said. There are at least three young females,
(01:01:07):
one of which I have is AlSi Keys. The other
two were India Ree and Telly Price Tilstan. I said,
why don't you do for music on your show what
you do for books and authors? It's so important right
now for what these new orders, all female are doing.
(01:01:29):
She called me the next day she said, I have
a dinner Saturday night in Chicago. Do you call David
certify that Alicia Keys is good in person, outstanding in person?
I said, yes I do. She said, if you send
it to Chicago and she performs at my dinner and.
Speaker 8 (01:01:54):
It's as good as you say, I will learn every.
Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
Word that I will put her on with the other
two women not on your label on my TV show,
but for her, I will be two weddings. I will
know every word of that song, and it will be meaningful.
Alisha went to Chicago, knocked everybody out in the dinner.
(01:02:23):
It gets to the TV show Oprah keeps a word,
knows every word A fallen Alisha's things with backdrop to
dning by Oprah. The show is over. If you ever
watched it, you'll see them both.
Speaker 6 (01:02:41):
Thank me.
Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
It was an original idea of that paid off as
soon as that show was over falland became a huge
hit in every genre. So the worry paid off and
the solution paid off. I find in business that war
carrying helps making sure that every effort is made. You
(01:03:05):
never know when something's going to come up and prevent
this success from occurring. So I think an executive that
worries but doesn't get paralyzed and in stimulated to think
of solutions has much more success than somebody who's either
(01:03:28):
braggadocio or overconfident and things it's all going to happen naturally.
It doesn't happen that way naturally. You've got to be
vigilant and it helps to worry. In early talking, as
we get near the end of this interview, one of
you brought up and we haven't touched on it. And
(01:03:52):
that is what happens in most In many cases, when
artists are convinced they have to write themselves. What is
the history then? So the history with Barry Manilow is
very different from the history, for example, with either Melissa
(01:04:15):
Manchester or Tell the Dame Barry. When Mandy makes it,
when looks like we made it, makes it, and trying
to get the feeling them I write the songs, he said, Look,
I'm a writer. Every time Clive comes with his two songs,
I never heard them as being better than my songs.
(01:04:38):
But I trusted not with the track record. My job
was to come up with the arrangement. What is he hearing?
Not from a negative point of view, what is he
hearing that I never hear? And now how do I
come up with them? Which he always did with the
(01:04:59):
great arrangements with those songs that I came up with
that made them clossets. When it came to Melissa, she
did write Midnight Blue and Come In from the Rain.
But a pop artist in those years, Paul would do
three albums, be believe it or not. And if you're
(01:05:22):
a pop artist.
Speaker 8 (01:05:23):
You've gotta have single after single.
Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
After single, or you don't sell anywhere near than those albums.
And at his single, so I said to Melissa, why
don't we do what I'd do with Barry. The two
of you were great friends because I gave her Don't
Cry out Loud, and I gave her you sit here
how she talks about you. She had big, big hits
(01:05:50):
with them in addition to her own songs of Midnight
Blue and Come In from the Rain. And she looked
me one day she said, look, I appreciate these souls
you gave me, but for the future, I don't want
to record outside songs. He said to me, I'm Joni Mitchell.
(01:06:15):
Jony Mitchell would never do an outside song. I said,
look to me, you're a young Streisand and it's different
from Joni Mitchell, and you right, well, but look at
the huge success. She loved Barry and there was no
envy there. She said, I have an image of the
artist I want to be, and that's Jony Mitchell. It's
(01:06:39):
not a female Bearry monologue. Even though I love Barry.
About eight years ago, I go to the cabaret in
New York called fifty four Below, and I seen the
more sir and I go by stage. We never had
a fight. She never had a hit again to that
song discussion, because she only wrote for herself, and she
(01:07:03):
never wrote a hit for herself. I know I could
have hit after his song Fire. And she looked at
me because she's wonderful. She sang from me and coning
you Hall. She said, how did you love me? I
was in my twenties. When I think back of your expertise,
(01:07:25):
and I think back me in my mid twenties. What
did I know that you know? Compared to what you know?
You should have given me electric shock therapy. Of course,
when you get into a difference of opinions, even that
doesn't work. An other example is tail of Date. I
(01:07:49):
bought a master that I had nothing to do with,
and it was a hit and all of a sudden,
we had to come up with the album, and I
came up with nine of the songs. Tail had one
hit after another to the points that an album of
the greatest kids, So two and a half million couppies,
and all of a sudden, one day she comes up.
(01:08:12):
We were all very friendly.
Speaker 8 (01:08:13):
She said, everybody's after.
Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
Me to collaborate and write.
Speaker 8 (01:08:18):
I said, I understand that.
Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
I said, because you're selling millions of albums, so look
at the copyright. Well they get me. Are you a writer?
I'm not saying you're not. She said, give me a
shot to see I'm on to write. I'll collaborate. A
year passes, I call her, I'm not ready yet. Two
stories two years past, I said, Tailor. When you were
(01:08:43):
a pop artis public doesn't know when you Bill Justin's
seen you're having flops. They won't know that you're not
coming with any record. It's over two years by the
time she came with that album, no single developed, had
had a single, and three years that career was over.
(01:09:03):
See too many years later, but when you get into
that area, it was very history is shown making the
right judgments, coming up with brilliant arrangements, and both Melissa
and Taylor, two wonderful things, could have had much bigger
(01:09:24):
careers if they went to the professional songwriter. Then last
Night of the Songwriters all the faith you know to me,
Jab and Diane Lawrenjean Pitchmit. Anyway, those are my stories
regarding songs and artless you know, Clive.
Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Uh No, we'd ask this question, is there anyone working now?
I mean, even though I must say the analogy would
be there's only one Sinatra. I've watched it for years
and years and there was only one guy that was him.
I mean, is there anyone working now who reminds you
of yourself? If they exist? And I hold the analogy
(01:10:13):
of Sinatra? I think you hold him unto.
Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
Obviously, Well, I'm very admiring, and I'm sure he works
in his own style and his own way. But Monty Libman,
who runs some public records and a wonderful orders Frostuff
and it includes Taylor Swift on the weekend and Drake
(01:10:41):
and Ariana Grande. And you know, I'm not there on
day to day, but I know Monty and he's really
a great music plan and he puts together a team
of executives that is probably Avery when the Goldstein of
and that is a reason for the normal success. But
(01:11:05):
I don't know what you've done regarding songs for audience
or we all have our own the natures.
Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Your credentials are certainly so unique, Clive. And to have
known you and not profess to know you well well well,
but to have been in your presence and as a
person that has total passion for what I do for
a lot of years. Skip and eye and I'll let
Skip jump in. But we are so so touched that
(01:11:38):
you're able to give us the time, and I know
we could probably do hours and hours and days because
you're that unique. I still love the way you dress.
Between you and Ahmed Urdigen, I learned a lot, if
you remember our boy, and I thank you so much, Clive.
I look forward to seeing you when I get to
(01:11:59):
New York. We always run into each other at Polo.
Maybe it's a learned down which I think you'll agree
is still one of the finest restaurants in the city.
Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Great.
Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Both are great, and I'll send you I'll send you
my schedule when I'll be in Paris in the event
I put the right ties.
Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
No, I want to come see you in person. Let's
talk of you and your career and your magnetism is
alive perform us. I was spending a few months in
Miami here waiting for words that you'd be playing near
U to come see you again, to perform. I mean,
(01:12:42):
you are a great live performer, great autist in Europe.
Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
I'll be there in February in March. We've already set
the dates next February in March, Cliss.
Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Oh great, well, let me know, and I will hope
to be there and hope to come and joy and sleep.
Your your your talent and uh, Skip, you're a better
give the best Edie Badskin.
Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I definitely was.
Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
She just loves you.
Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
When we started this, I said, you know, I mentioned
to her, you know, it's interesting you think of these
these famous people in life with the one that are
known with one name Madonna cher Well, Clive, you fit
right into that group and and it's a privilege for
us to be able to have you on. Really appreciate
your taking the time. Well, thank you, my best see bow,
(01:13:36):
thank you, thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Be well.
Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Our Away with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtogg, with supervising producer
and editor Marcy Depina.
Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
It was en engineered by Todd Carlum and Graham Gibson,
mixed and mastered by the wonderful Merry Dude.
Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave
us a review.
Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Paul Anka
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