Wayne Brady: The Joke Was A Passport

TS Madison and THE Wayne Brady meet for the first time in person and the vibes are as immaculate as Wayne’s outfit (by the way, full episodes are now on YouTube too for our visual learners). Wayne TALKS HIS SHIT like the 5-time Emmy Award winner that he IS — and proceeds to explain the concept of “Outlaws” better than we ever could!

They get into it all: what pansexuality means to Wayne, growing up Caribbean American and seemingly too Black for the white folks but not 'Black enough' for Hollywood, the way in which him and Maddie each turned jokes into passports, and that time Whitney Houston was booed at the Soul Train Awards. Also, they reflect on the feeling of being overlooked by the very institutions that are supposed to celebrate you (NAACP, BET, Essence, Atlanta Pride… yes, we’re naming names). Maddie drops a monologue on surviving the system by monetizing confusion, and Wayne recounts his absolutely legendary audition for "Snakes on a Plane." At one point, TS Madison auditions to play Audrey II from "Little Shop of Horrors" and we think we may need to start a campaign to make this happen for real?!

Wayne and Maddie share a kindred connection – and we wish we could've kept this episode rolling for another hour. We need more! A buddy comedy? A musical? Wayne AND Maddie in "Little Shop" together?!

Maddie Mob, you're in for an hour of real talk and revelations. How are y'all liking the show so far? Who are your dream guests? Are you following us on social? Have you reviewed/subscribed/etc. to all the things? Let’s lock in y’all – this podcast is just getting started!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Every time I open up my mouth up and goes out.
Don't wait, no wins win two inches b bd bd
bd bed yourself up, get a job ricking, honey, rick
hoon more. He chasing it all. I'm black like that,

(00:29):
he stout living. It's color easy. This is Outlaws with
TS Medicine. Honey, is it on? Is it on? Is
this thing? Recording job?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
We are here yet again on the Outlaws podcast with
who TS Medicine. It wouldn't be an Outlaws podcast without
the TS baby, because Honey, the TS is definitely an Outlaw.
Today I am joined by comedy edgen and comedy royalty
and television personality and all.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
The things me. I'm joined by me. No, I'm just joking.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Today I have my good friend here on the podcast
with me, mister Wayne Brady.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy
to meet you in person. Listen, what I got a question?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, And because we're gonna go by these cars, come on,
we're gonna, we're gonna we're gonna go off the grid. Yeah,
like at some point the cars cars gotta go. I
just want to say to you, is Wayne Brady gonna
have to slap a hole. Well, it's actually choke a bitch.
Oh yeah, you're like, it's specifically choke a bitch. But
if you would like for me to slap a hole,

(01:46):
then who am I to say?

Speaker 1 (01:47):
No? Who am I to stop that wish from happening.
I make dreams happen. I don't stand in the way
of Dethin. He said that you're gonna slap a hole
and choke a bitch at the same time. God, because
I'm multita, because you time faceted. Yes, you gotta have
one hand here by my body. You gotta be ready
to move in all directions. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Speaking of multifaceted, we have a segment of our show
where it's called Talk your Ship. I guess now on
this segment, it's time for you to talk your ship.
Who are you, what do you do? What are you
proud of? And this is your time to shine? So
don't hold back. Just let them look at directly at

(02:26):
that cameracy. I'm Wayne Brady, and this talk your shit.
Tell me about your Emmys, your Grammys, your your.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Poorn Award, tell us about everything that you've gotten a
baby twenty sixteen. I will talk my shit, So camera,
let me talk my shit. In case you didn't know,
allow me to introduce myself. My is Wayne Brady. I
am a two time Grammy nominee. I am a six

(02:54):
time Emmy winner. I am well over sixteen Emmy nominations.
I'm a broad Broadway star. I have been on TV
successfully since nineteen ninety nine. Before that, I toured for
years on stage. I'm an improvisationalist. Many of you would

(03:15):
first know me from Whose line is it any Way? Where?
I want a couple of those Emmys. The only brother
in prime time at that time to successfully breach that
comedic art of improvisation. The first black hosts of Miss America,
so many, first first person in through the door, one
of the first successful black game show hosts. When other

(03:36):
black comics we're looking to be going, ah, hi, he's
on a game show. They turn around, Now they on
a game show. That's what I did. I cracked that
door open gladly so we can move forward and we
can proceed. Now I'm the host of Let's Make a Deal,
going into my seventeenth season. When most folks can get one,
I've got seventeen. I love doing what I do. I
love being a representative of us. I love make people laugh.

(04:01):
I love making folks happy in a day and time
when people are judged by Oh it's you know, I'm
too cool to smile. I'm too cool to crack a joke.
These are days and times when you're supposed to be
able to make somebody smile. And because I can make
you laugh and smile, don't get it twisted, don't come
out the side of your neck. And me, I am
a grown ass man. I am also a father. I

(04:22):
have two amazing kids. I have a talented twenty two
year old daughter who's gonna take over Broadway and she's
gonna be on SNL. I have a two year old,
beautiful son who's gonna walk in his father's light, and
I get to be a proud man to represent for
my son. I'm also pan sexual. I discovered that recently.
I embrace who I am. It's hearts before parts. I

(04:44):
don't care what you have as long as I love
you and you love me. Let's do that. So that's
the shit that I'm talking. I'm a walking, talking, talent
machine who is filled with love. That's it.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Listen, let me tell you something. We get guests to
come on our show and tell them to talk your
ship and they don't. I don't think that they believe
fully in themselves. This is what it looks like to
believe fully in yourself. This is what it looks like
to believe fully in yourself with a motherfucker can't. I'm
gonna tell you who the fuck I am, what the

(05:15):
fuck out undid where I'm at?

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Where you not at? What I opened the door for
you to get there.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
When I tell you I'm over here. Listen, it's two
things going on in this show right now. My COUTU
wear at my dig heart at the same fucking time
at the same time.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Uh. You know why, because should come And it's because
you did this.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
You you you went out in the world to do
these things and it and it happened for you. And
people get over here to get shot.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
And get like I don't want I don't want to
be because we are conditioned for that. That's the thing.
And that's why even when we were talking downstairs, I
followed you and one I became aware of you, and
I and I applaud you and raise you up and
your shit because to move through the world and to
we teach people how to treat us. So when you

(06:08):
have a guest that goes, oh, man, I don't want
to tell you. It's because we've been told, especially if
if you're black, don't talk too loud, don't talk too much,
don't try to overshadow some somebody. We hide our light,
and don't forge. Let me add to that, don't forget
where you come from. Don't forget you can always bring
yourself back. Be humble, be humble. Well I'm being If

(06:29):
I'm being humble and I'm being filled with grace, it's
because I want to. I don't want to be humble
for you. So when I watch you walk through the world,
your simple act of existence, especially right now in this
day and time, let me repeat that, your simple active
existence threatens so many people. Yes that they don't want that.

(06:50):
So I plod you, I plod us just being in
the world. The daily act of breathing is talking our shit,
that's right, and being black like that, amen, Like.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
You have no idea how much I appreciate you for that,
Like not just forgiving me a flower or flowers, but
for just how you sat there and you ran your
you ran your shit. Now because it'll be a motherfucker
out there that'll say.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Who is what he did?

Speaker 2 (07:20):
They'll oh, they'll see your last TV show, or they'll
see your last thing, or they'll only deduce you or
reduce you to your sexual orientation.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Oh the pant sexual guy.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Nah, bitch, nah, many things, the sixteen Amy nominated.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Many things, but we let people do that years ago.
I will be honest, I couldn't have done it like
that because I was very much programmed. I was very
much programmed, not just from people in show business and
in life that I felt that I couldn't walk into
some rooms and be raw Rock because I have to
play the role but also buy my own people. You know,

(07:58):
even growing up, I grew up around cats who who
made me feel less than that. I didn't fight back
and use my voice because I felt like I wasn't this,
I wasn't that, But I'd had to learn the lesson
that at some point. Look, if I'm not insert word,
if I'm not manly enough for you, if I'm not
black enough for you, if I'm not funny enough for you,

(08:20):
if I'm not this enough for I can't do nothing
and nothing I could do. Nothing I can do do.
But there is somebody out there that.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
That I am that ford absolutely, and people ask me
all the time like, well, ts, why do you always
talk about you being your trains or you talk about
when you were a sex worker, you bitch, because I
want to let you know. You see where I'm sitting at.
They done told all u holes, I did it done
some dig bitch that you can't do that, bitch. I
was a business woman. I wasn't just a sex worker

(08:48):
just like laying on my back having sex. I was
conducting business. And so with me being able to conduct business,
it got me seats here, seats there because everybody's out
here fucking us.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I'm just making sure that you're paying the taboo. I
love that.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I'm just making sure you're paying the tab So don't
think because I got off off the I walked off
the sidewalk, or I got up off the bed, that
bitch I'm not. I'm not still a walking prostitution. I'm
still working or or soliciting.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know all that. I am, honey, for the for
the correct feed, for what I'm worth. It's just a
different feel like you took that hustle and you transplanted it.
And that's what I love about us is is there
are people that would just say, oh, yeah, I was
a whole I was a this as that. But like
you said, you were a business woman. I know Katz

(09:43):
who like two friends of mine that I'm working with
them on the show. They have an ad business and
a and an advertising a agency called con Creates. Shout
out to Vincent Joe who formerly incarcerated gents con Creates brilliant.
Two brothers, one of them allegedly committed all these bank
rob radiately allegedly, and the other one allegedly ran a

(10:08):
drug empire. Now where society looks and they go, oh, well,
that dude was just a drug dealer, and that dude
was just a robber. Circumstances Really, the planning that it
took to commit those robberies that that did. Dude he's
a tactician, yes, And the other gentleman, he was a
CEO of a global business, running numbers and being able

(10:31):
to create an infrastructure. I'm not applauding the end result
of the crime. I'm just saying that who's not to
say that if you moved over the circumstance that they
wouldn't have been running this important fortune five hundred business
And there are so many of us in the community
that have these job skills and this mindset like you

(10:51):
do that you just use that hustle for what's at hand,
and then you move it over to the Hollywood hustle,
which is still hoen but on on a different scale.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Different scale. Here's the thing I told people, why when
they try to judge me, I said, sweetie, I'm just
a product of the system that you all created. You
told me when I put on a wig in a
in a damn dress that I couldn't you know. You
didn't want me here because I was causing confusion. So
I went out there to those that liked the confusion
and paid me, paid me to be paid me to

(11:22):
fuel their confusion because obviously we work together. I see
some of you that we worked at the same place
out there driving on this road to pick me up.
So we're all confused here. And someone asked me because
we had a We've had an array of guests here
on the show, Black White transsists, straight Gate, you know

(11:43):
a variety of folks, and I always say, everybody that
sits here has been played the cards that they were dealt.
You can't look at me and say, well, I think
that she should be a more polished as Laverne Cox
or or I think that she should be more articulate

(12:06):
as Angelica Ross or I think that she should be Well,
you gave them different opportunities than you gave me, and
so they got to the spaces that they got with
the cars that they were there.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I'm here.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
We're all sharing this, and obviously we're all sharing the
same seats somewhere in the position. I just had a
different start. And you can't look at me as a
black transgender woman and tell a white transgender woman that
she's better than me because she didn't have to do
any of the things I did. The system created it

(12:38):
to where she had a better opportunity than I did.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
The still flourished within the system, within the city, still
fish within because a lot of them I was a millionaire, honey.
When they were talking about getting boobs, I had bought up.
I had bought my first mansion.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
When they were talked when they were trying to get
their first set of tits, I was laying on a
ten thousand dollar sofa watching them.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
On YouTube Wow Wow.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
While Laverne Cox is show which which we're going to
talk to my good sister Laverne. So I'll be repeating
some of these same things. While my good sister Laverne
was just getting her breakout roll on, I was sitting
on my ten thousand dollars sofa with my floor to
ceiling windows from a system that I was shoved into,
and I didn't want to do that, but I said, okay,

(13:28):
well you y'all wasn't push me over here, let me
make it.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Let me show you how to make the best of it.
So you've obviously heard those things. Oh, I've heard them.
In terms of this, I've heard them.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
I've heard I've heard all of that stuff way, because
you know, when when you get into these types of positions, they're.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Like, oh my god, I didn't know that you. I
didn't know you were you were as articulate as you are.
You're smart. I didn't know that you were.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
You're so smart, You're I'm like, so you thought that. Listen,
do you know how smart you have to be not
to get fucked on the stroll without a condom?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Smart to survive? That's smart because it's those men that
are driving out there trying to fuck you raw and
you're like, no, Sweedie, I gotta live because I got
shit to do in the future.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm not gonna be here all the time. I got
stuff to do in the future. I'm just collecting my
told right now, honey, to get to that bridge over there.
Thanks have things to do in the future. So no,
you can't kill me now. I'll die when I'm old.
But I'm gonna take this money and I'm gonna invest
going to go across that bridge over there that I

(14:30):
got to go over, you know. And then there was
a point why that I thought that I like that.
There was a moment because you do get in those
moments even in this like you try to feel like
figure out, like what's the next spot. There was a
moment in that area I was like, well, I guess

(14:52):
all it's gonna be is porn. So I guess I
gotta just, you know, be the best, or I gotta
figure out how to set the bar high for everybody
else to surround me trying to watch it to get
I got to be the best in this space. And
then something came along where I wanted to say in
order to expand my reach, and so I found Vine

(15:18):
and Vine was six seconds. Six seconds changed my entire trajectory.
Six seconds of my life changed my entire trajectory because
it was already written that I was going to go
in a different space.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
And in that six seconds, I was trying to figure out, like,
how can I get more people that are buying sex
to buy my sex. I didn't know that people that.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Weren't looking for my sex was going to find everything
else interesting because it was like, how in the fuck
does this fat woman have a big dick like this?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
And they started sharing it to everybody and that became
the question how does this fat woman have a big dick?
I just think that that is one of the that
question alone, the fact that that's the six seconds that

(16:22):
changed your life, Yes, that that is hilarious.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
It wasn't everybody's in like everybody's in like everybody if
you were a celebrity.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That's how all the celebrities knew me because it was
it was the running joke, bigd bech dot come, big
bech dot come, like like hey, you want you want
to want me to ruin your day, Big bech dot come.
But the impressive thing to me is it could have
ended there. Yeah, because you could have been a joke
and that's the difference between, especially with the Internet and
the way that these memes and everything is circulated. I

(16:53):
think sometimes you can be the joke and and you know,
even nothing against her, but I just think it speaks
a lot to our our the zeitgeist right now where
we are. But like the hawk to a girl, Oh,
the fact that she was able for that second guess
it puts pp too on America is like whoo. And
then and then the next thing, she has a coin

(17:15):
and that'll okay. But you can be the joke or
you can use that for your next thing. And you
were able to use that to then show all of
your other gifts, to show that you that you have wants, dreams,
golds things in mind and you just were not that
one note. And that's what's so impressive to me that

(17:38):
I want to look at the camera say, guess what, America,
the joke was on you. The joke was a passport. Yeah,
because it just moved me all around. It moved me
all around.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Now I want to know, because you said so much
at the top of the show, I want to know
your origin story.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
That's what I want to know.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I want to know what was a turning point, or
an experience or a source of inspiration or a Eureka
moment that shaped your path for today.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
I just told you mine my origin story. Let's see,
in a nutshell, I was because a field. There's so
much to it. Because i've therapy is a beautiful thing.
I recommend it to anybody watching and listening. For four years.
You know, black folk, we've been told, at least my generation,

(18:40):
we were told that the very unhealthy self lie, that
therapy wasn't for us. It's a luxury. We don't need therapy.
In fact, if anybody needs therapy, it's Black folks. Yeah.
We need to unpack, unwind, and release. And so in
the decade that I've been doing therapy, a lot of

(19:01):
the work, I found out a lot about myself and
going back and finding out my origin story. I didn't
know my origin story. In fact, right now, I'm in
the middle of writing, half writing and half creating a
partially scripted improvisational show where I use where I tell
the story of my life, but I use improv because

(19:21):
I say there are chunks of my life that I
do not remember, which is why that I got a
book deal. I've had two book deals and I was
afraid to write the book because I honestly don't remember.
I don't remember chunks of my childhood. I don't remember
chunks of my twenties. I don't remember all because of
trauma and this self self and stress and all this.

(19:41):
So there are pieces of my life that I don't remember.
I was raised by my grandmother in Orlando, Florida. My
folks are from the US Virgin Islands, Saint Thomas and
Saint Croix, an Island family. So when I was coming
up in school grades, Paramount Mamma didn't let me go
outside much because she said, when these children that because

(20:04):
this was during the New Jack era. So even in
in Orlando, Florida, you know, I had cats in my neighborhood.
Sometimes a shot would go off. And she was a
super protective grandmother because she promised my father, who was
in the military and the Army, Wayne Senior, he asked
her to raise me. He said, I want you to

(20:24):
raise my son like you raised me. So he he
wanted me to be raised in a strict environment, full
of respect, and while he was traveling the world, he
didn't want me bouncing from pillar to posts. So she
and my grandfather raised me, but pretty much her so strict,
strict upbringing, didn't watch a lot of TV, read a lot.

(20:47):
She impressed. She was not very educated herself, as is
her generation. She had to take care of all of
her brothers and sisters. Never made it past like fourth
fifth grade, but a brilliant woman. So she wanted me
to read. So she wanted me to read her book.
So I learned to read very young, and I grew

(21:08):
up watching a lot of PBS and musical theater and
all this music that I ordinarily wouldn't be exposed to.
She exposed me to so many things because she wanted
me to be able to take in more than just
where I was. She she wanted me to take in
the world. So so while that sounds cool on paper,

(21:29):
I didn't always fit in. So I learned at a
very early age, which I feel a lot of my
anxiety even now as an adult, where I was always told, well,
you're different, because I had a very strong accent when
when I was young as well, because I lived in
the household, I can hear it sometimes I've won when

(21:50):
that's exactly when come on. So I had a very
strong accent, and so I learned. At an early age.
I was like, Okay, I shouldn't talk too much because
I don't want people to make fun of me. Because
then I developed this stutter. I had a bad stutter,
So not only do I have a stutter, but now
I have this voice that they're making fun of my

(22:12):
accent and where I come from. They make fun of
my food, they make fun of how my clothes smell
because of the saltfish and funge that mom makes in
the house. So there was a lot of Oh, I
have to separate myself from the people around me. That
was my baseline. So that is a huge part of
my origin story. And I even see now how I

(22:33):
conduct myself in life and even in Hollywood. I am
a loner. I'm great on camera. I can do my thing,
I'll dap everybody up. But I do not believe, or
have not believed, that I deserve to be in rooms
with people. So I go, oh, you know what, I'm
not going to go talk to Jamie Fox, even though

(22:53):
Jamie just gave me love and wants to time, because
he probably doesn't want to talk to me. I'm not
going to talk to my favorite actor. I'm not going
to talk to call me, and those guys, I'll talk
to him, but they don't want to hear from me.
I did, so I stay by myself, and that's been
a continuing part of my story. So my origin story
is rooted in you need to be by yourself. So
in that I learned to create. I had I was

(23:15):
a plane with myself of writing, doing voices, creating worlds.
My grandpa worked at the commissary on the naval posts,
so he would bring home boxes. I'd build shit. I
learned to draw, I'd learned to sing on my own.
I had this whole world in my head that I
was going to create, but I didn't want anybody to
see it because I knew that if I did that,

(23:39):
I'd be made fun of. I was just built like that.
I wish I could go back and give that little
guy more courage, because he had a lot to offer.
So my origin story is rooted in never being good,
good enough, feeling that until when I was sixteen. Then
I started acting and I stepped out out of that
and I found something that gave me of a way,

(24:00):
that gave me a mission that made me feel comfortable
in my skin. And also, you know, growing up We
used to play the dozens on each other, but it
was always you so black this, and your mama so
black and you so damn dark. You did it and
I was like, oh, I got it, talk funny. I
need to stay away from you. And I'm really really black,

(24:22):
so being really really black must be bad. So then
if I'm bad, then the people around me must be
bad too because they're all black, so I shouldn't like
them and they don't like me. So you start this
whole self hate shit when you're teenager, and you got
to work that whole shit is shipped out, which I
did quickly because I love my skin. How can you

(24:45):
not love what you look like if your mama looks
like this, right? So I was like, no, that's wrong,
because my mom is beautiful. So I learned that. So
that's how I began my grind and then coming up
in theater and always so learning to navigate race, learning
to navigate that trauma piece that prepared me for later
when I would hit Hollywood. When after I broke broke out,

(25:09):
I was like, oh, I've made it, surely, I've finally
done it now and I hear shit from other black comics,
some of them that were surprised that I just came
out of nowhere. Well he's on that white show. He's
not black enough when that whole thing started, So now
everything I do, I'm fighting to prove my blackness. And
I was like, why am I fighting to prove some shit?

(25:29):
That is a twenty four to seven job for me.
This is my job. I clock in and I clock
out or go to sleep. This is not going anywhere.
It's not a suit. And unlike people who I hate
using this words, but I use it for dramatic effect.
Unlike some people in the business and then the scope
of the world who I deem arcoons who go out
of their way to placate others and people that don't
look like them, I've never done that. I've always said,

(25:51):
this is my skill set, this is what I have
to offer, this is what what I do. I've never
gone out of my way to make other people feel comfortable.
I've just done what I do and I walk and
I move the way that I've never changed. I've never
changed that. So that even made made me angry. So
at some point after you know, we're joking about to
have the choco bitch after my talk show and the

(26:15):
Chappelle sketch happened. Then things changed a little bit, I
think in terms of perception, because there were those who
thought that I wouldn't say or do certain things. It's like,
you don't know me. You only see this narrow view,
this opportunity that Disney gave me to have a show
on a Disney own network and be that dude. You

(26:35):
don't know the totality of me, but that's cool you
find out. And so it's been an evolution and I'm
still evolving. I'm still finding out that there are layers
that I can peel, and I'm owning my shit. I'm
owning I'm owning who I am, which is why I
can sit here and do that thing of talk my
shit because I finally believe it. Because I want to
be able to inspire others, which is why I would

(26:56):
share my life with my family, and my docu show,
which is why I would talk about or orientation, which
is why I do these things, because I'm finally stepping
into who I am.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I appreciate all of this because you know, I'm sitting
across from you looking at me, and I think what
happens with black people is that we don't really look
at each other and see each other. I the opportunities
that I've received because when I after the breakout thing

(27:38):
for me happened, a lot of white audiences gravitated to me,
and so it started pushing me into those, you know,
those areas. And so then the first thing that the
colored folks said to me was you you you you
a sellout, and I'm I'm like, well, I presented myself

(28:03):
to you all.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
First, and it was like, ill, don't be mad because
you didn't buy what I was selling. They just don't
be mad. And then and then when the white folks
came along, was like, oh shit, well, you know that's
sound because I wanted at the end of the day,
I wanted to make money because I have to survive
in this world. I'm living in this water, surviving this world.

(28:25):
I need to make money.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
And so there were there were there was money making
deals that came through that I was like, I might
do this, I might not. You know, as long as
I don't have to be saying I'm a monkey, I'm
a no, I still was on my terms. And as
long as I feel that, as long as still that
everything was out, everything I did was on my terms.
I was going to do it, and so I went

(28:48):
down the tunnel, and I got a lot of opportunities
happened for me. And then after the opportunities happened for me,
all the black forces over there like she sold out.
She over there with this and the other and there.
And now I'm trying to figure out which was the
breakout part for me, which which which the black folks
started coming. They started seeing all the white people booking
me like I was doing all the white prides, and

(29:11):
I was doing all the all the white prides like
I had I had as as long as I lived
in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
I never have ever and even to this day, I
have never been able to. I've never did the big
like the big prizes that they have.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
I've done the little things like the little prize, like
the little the club spin offs, the the the after party.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I've never been down.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
There to the main stage where they have all the
all the all the black I've seen all the new
girls come in, Santana, which who I love, my baby
sat Sausa Santana. I've seen Santana come in. I've seen
all the girls that don't came the wave of girls
that came in after me. I've seen them book down there.
I've seen them book all the hetero sexual homophobes and transfer.

(30:00):
I've seen them book them. I've seen them honor them.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
I have yet.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yet to be a part of any of the black
pride in Atlanta, and I specifically scream in Atlanta because
that's the black mecca.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, So have you see? Now? The question is is
have you knocked on the door and said, But then
I'm torn because then the piece of me because when
I hear that, that stirs something in me because I've
got issues with like you know, the NAACP Image Awards
and whatnot, but I do, so a piece of you

(30:40):
is like, knock, knock, knock, why don't you recognize me?
But then the pride is like, why should I knock,
knock knock because I've been been here and you open
the door for those people that you're booked now. So
obviously there is awareness of you. But there's a choice
that has been made. Well the choice, I believe, and

(31:00):
you probably can speak to this. I think the choice
becomes I'm successful, I'm rich. I didn't need you to
do it, and you wanted me to fail and not
flourish with the cards that were dealt to me. You

(31:22):
wanted to have the control to be like, I don't
think that this represents me as a black person, and
so I'm not going to be involved in that. I'm
not gonna bat myth essence right now. But I'm going
to tell you an essence story. Okay ready, because I
like the way you said the NAACP. See how we
name it names, We name it names and saying a thing,

(31:43):
Oh yeah, but it's not even a disrespectful god where
it's like, well, it's just a fact.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
It's the things that happened, right, So you know, I
am the first black transgender woman to executive produce and
star in her own reality television series twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
That happened You created that the ts Madson experience, right,
So that was your idea. Yes, I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
That was because I wanted to document my life for
the people to see and me going on a on
a road to start them and coming from get paid
me money, daddy to mister have my money, you know,
And that was the thing. It made me the first

(32:28):
that's googleable. It's the truth. I'm the first black transgender
woman to executive produce and star in her own reality
television show In my Name.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
I want you to listen. That's black history, right right
ha ha?

Speaker 2 (32:47):
So essence my I don't know. If I don't know,
so maybe somebody will watch it over there and they'll
be like, well, what happened was, because you know, they
always have to tell you what happened. My pr was
Pamela Broussard, and the network, which is WE TV, were
was doing a lot of the you know, trying to

(33:07):
get keeping the press around it and talking about it whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Well people magazine recognized it. People did.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Someone had asked and said they weren't interested in the story. Wow,
I was hurt by that.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
That hurt me. I wanted to be known whenever this
stuff drops. That hurt me as it should as it should,
but it would be good in cases like that. And
the frustrating thing is because of the way that that

(33:44):
the machine works, no matter what the company is, like
when you say somebody there, unless you know the specific person,
the frustrating thing becomes well who where what? Let me
talk to them? And you never quite know what it
is because the hope is an incredible black bastion like essence,

(34:07):
you would want to say, hope, I'm sorry. You would
want to hope that the actual machinery does respect you,
does admire you, and you would hope that maybe it
does come down to one person. Yeah, who happened to
be in the slot and go, no, I'm giving them
that because they've written about me. No, they Well, Beyonce
came along and I have a collaboration with Beyonce. You

(34:31):
know I'm on Cozy, which is song too off of
the Renaissance album. Well, we talked about that. In essence,
was it because Beyonce solidified it as a black woman
and she came through about the queer community and the
contributions of the queer community has given to the world,
and how ts Madsen is a part of being a

(34:53):
contribution from the queer community to the world or once
again succeeding with the cars that you were built despite
which That's why I love this outlaws thing. It makes
so much sense to me now after talking with you,
what there's whole thing. Yes, yes, sometimes you have to
be an outlaw. If the system, if you can't thrive

(35:17):
within the system by those rules, you have to be
an outlaw. Yeah, I love that and a lot of
the things hurt me.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
I don't have any resentment to them when they called
me to do interviews about stuff. When we talk about things,
you know, I don't have a problem. But when I
get a time to sit down and talk about like
the trajectory of my career, and there are certain places
that we look to as black people, like essence is
a place in DOUBLEACP Image.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
You woard, It's a place. Here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
I went on Tammeron Hall Show, and the episode that
we did on Tamaran Hall Show was nominated for n
Double ACP Award. I've never seen footed INAACP Image anything.
I've never set foot there. I watched be Et honor
so many black thists and black thiscs. B Et has
written three four five articles about ten queer people you

(36:16):
should know, fifteen queer people you should know.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Top this.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
I've never attended a BT Awards ceremony. I've never been
invited to a creator's thing, a black creator something for
b Et.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Never. When I hear you say those things, they triggering
me because I feel like we sit at the same table.
And what I have made peace with is hey, I'm
not I'm not going to chase something, especially when you've
reached a point in your life you're like, well, look

(36:53):
if you don't know and know by now, but also
to not let like you were saying, both things can't exist.
Like I can say this, and I say this out loud.
Even the NAACP Image Awards just happened right that. I've
been involved with the awards years and years ago. I
co hosted once I think with oh yeah, with Holly
Robinson Pete and we did things. But since then, in

(37:15):
my mind, at least in my mind, and maybe I'm deluded,
but in my mind, I've done so many things that
even as a game show host, that were grain and
b groundbreaking that I could have been nominated for. I've
done all these things great. I could have resentments about those.
Even the other night I was sitting I was watching
those things, I said, wow, you know what, I would
really love to be in that room because those are
my people and I feel that I should be recognized.

(37:37):
I could be incredibly angry about that. I can be
hurt about it, like you just said, we can be hurt.
It doesn't mean that I hate because I love the NAACP.
I love watching a shine. I'm glad that the awards exist.
I'm glad that we have that night. I'm glad that
so there's no hate. It's yes, like you, I'm hurt

(38:02):
by it, but both things can't exist. We can be
hurt and still recognize the beautiful thing that that is.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yes, so like essence, it's a wonderful thing. It's a
beautiful b Et. It's a wonderful thing. It's a beautiful
It's black, it's so big black, and so it's just
like it becomes like, hey, I'm black. Hey, this stuff
is going on, and then it starts to make me
question what are the politics behind it? Because I went

(38:32):
to one of their luncheons, like one of the BET things.
It was like before the b ET show. My makeup
artists that was sitting over there. He got me in,
listen to this.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
He got me in.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
When I got in, they had to call security over
there because there was a line of people saying, oh
my god, this. They had to move me to the
back because it was pandemonium. Wow, I said, it's insane.

(39:10):
The people recognized my presence there. Everybody lined up to
get pictures like everybody, I'll do you one even better.
You ready the GLAD Awards thirty fifth year. Right, I
did the movie Bros. With Billy Aichner, Judd Apatar, Nicholas Stoler,

(39:34):
like jud Appati is you know comedy Rod, you know absolutely.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I did the movie.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Then we were nominated for a GLAD Award. We won
the GLAD Award. I was invited and I presented to
some other person. I'm presented an award to somebody, and
then we won the award. I was invited.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Thirty five years my first I'm invited. The positive that
I hear, and I'm so glad that we get to
have this talk. The positive that I hear when I
listen to you. It just instills me with the thing
of we just keep doing what we do, what we do,
and at some point, you know what if if it's

(40:20):
recognized by other pieces of these various machines, great, great,
how great, that's a little bit awesome. But if not,
we still keep going great because it's my jobs are
not based off of their recognition. Bingo.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
None of my jobs, none of my impact, none of
that stuff is made beyond say hit me up.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Beyond sy That's the flex. That's the flex right there,
that yes, Beyonce, so that all that stuff that they
talk about who are you, don't worry about it. You
ain't got to worry about it. The biggest star, I'm
your biggest star in the world's fave. Don't worry about it.
Not for you, it is for you.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
I don't expect for everybody to know who I am,
like I don't expect to walk, but I expect for
I expect for places that get people. You're saying, well,
why don't we get to Yes, you know, she just
did this thing, and people who is that?

Speaker 1 (41:17):
No? What they did? Poorn oh?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Because I do believe that that happens. I do believe
that a whisper of something like that happens, and it
immediately turns the knob down and it's just like no,
no research the lady.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yes, because there's such distance at this point, right, I mean,
there's such distance between like fifteen year distance, so much distance,
and not just the distance of time, the distance of impact,
the distance of what you do. And that's what I
think is is so funny about Oh God, it's such
a bigger conversation that makes me tired when I think

(41:52):
about about human nature and psychology and show business and
people can love you, and then people can decide to
not love you. And if we base our whole thing
on the wants of other people, then we would never

(42:13):
be right. So there's such a distance between A and B.
You know what that distance is. You are solid in
what you do. So if there is somebody who's stuck
when my god, she did such and such. Yeah, yeah,
because that's an actual fact. It's not a feeling. Deal
with the person that is in front of you right now,
which is you this body of work. Yes, that's how

(42:34):
I feel in the world. Is like, even if you
you are basing your like or dislike off me of
one thing that you saw ten fifteen years ago and
you thought that there was that, Look at who's in
front of you right now, Deal with this person. The

(42:56):
next segment of our show is called villain era.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Oh wait, let me get now, let's get into your
villain era.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Oh like a James Bond villain.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Octopusy you know, every outlaw it's labeled a villain at
some point.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Often we're just trying to live our truth and do
our best. Your villain era could be a time you
stop people pleasing, a time you stood up for yourself.
Maybe you made a mistake, or maybe you did something
that sparked some controversy, or maybe the world just simply
wasn't ready for you.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
What was your villain era and what did you learn
from it? Damn, that's a good question. My villain era.
I mean, I think, like I told in the Origin story,
maybe the overlap of the villain era is once I

(43:53):
got to a point I had to have this come
to Jesus moment when I needed to get back Nope,
not get back to I needed to find out who
Wayne was because I realized that from the time that
I started acting, when I found that thing. I remember

(44:14):
the one prayer that I had to God, and it's
a be careful what you wish for a thing if
you're not specific, and those of you that have faith,
you know you've got to be very intentional with your
with your prayers and manifestations and manifestation. I remember just saying,
you know what, God, all I want to do is work.

(44:35):
That's all I want to do. And that happened from
the time I was sixteen I started working. I was
never out of work commercials. I was doing whatever it was.
I would snatch work and it was good for gaining experience,
especially being from Orlando and then going on tour and
then getting out into the world. Oh, I could do
this experience this blah blah blah, and then I get

(44:55):
to La, Oh I can do that. I'll do this gig,
I'll do that thing. I didn't realize what I was
doing was is catch canning my way to success. And
when I finally get to a place where now I'm
on a show, and now I've got a network deal,
and now I've got a production company, and now I've
got this big, big manager. Like at one point my manager,
this dude, God bless him, a guy named Bernie Brostein.

(45:17):
Bernie used to Bernie manage a lot of the old
SNL guys and was responsible partially for SNL and for
The Muppet Show and for all these big ass comedians
from the seventies and eighties, huge presence. I let Bernie
and other people when I first got on, I let
them tell me who I was going to be. They

(45:39):
saw in me, and it's not that this is a
bad thing. They saw in me. They're like, oh, kid,
you can do anything. You're Sammy Davis junior moment, and
I'm like, that's cool. I grew up watching Sammy Davis Junior.
You're right, he could do X, Y and Z either,
but I didn't realize in their head, you're Sammy David,

(46:00):
so we're gonna put you down this path. And it
was all variety stuff. And whereas I wanted to be
a storyteller as well, I wanted to act, and like
at Ben, I wanted to be in movies or TV,
like I just wanted to tell stories, just like the
little kid that wanted to play. So I spend a
good decade in this place of where I let other
people and a lot of people, sadly who didn't look

(46:24):
like me, and I didn't have a team that looked
like me put me here, and I was there and
I was now. I'm not saying that I didn't have
any agency because I didn't do anything I didn't want
to do. But I was doing things I thought, oh
that I had to do. It's like, look, if you
really want to get ahead, you've got to do this
and then you can do that other thing. But I
really want to take this movie role that's too it's

(46:46):
not too black. But trust me, if you do this
other thing, then you'll get the power to all right,
and you do that enough, you do that dance enough,
you wake up and it's ten years later. Yeah, and
you've already solidified a name, You've solidified a place. You
only get a chance to be NW once because when
you knew you have possibilities. When you've been around folks
go oh, I ought to know him. So my villainaire

(47:08):
came after I went, oh, hell no, is this where
I am? Now? When I say that, I also say
that with the beautiful caveat of is this where I am?
I got money in the bank, I got homes, I
got this, I got a little status said, so it's
not like I was down and out. But you can
have all those things and be miserable. Yeah, you then

(47:28):
need to decide who you're going to be. And I
have to say, well, I'm going to start to get
back to me and do the things that I want
to do, and maybe I'll take a hit pay wise,
that's cool as long as I get to where I
need to. And that's when I started doing being cast
in more Broadway shows and showing that side of myself,

(47:48):
and then having my production company with my ex wife
who's my business partner. Creating the kind of things that
I want to be on and changing those minds. So
even though there were people that would say, oh, I
don't sea Wayne in this role because you know he's
a mister nice guy, or he's not black enough. Oh shit,
yes he's not black. And if you know, my villain
ever really started was during that time when when I
woke up and I said, hell no, I auditioned for

(48:10):
Snakes in a Plane. Snakes on a Plane not a
great movie, but a great cult movie. Shout out to Sam,
Sam Jackson and my brother Flex at Alexander. Here's what
I did. I get the audition for Snakes on a Plane.
I've only told this story one other time time on
the show. I was so glad to get to share
with you. I was very conscious of the fact that

(48:32):
when I go in a room to audition, you know,
when I'm asked audition, there's a preconceived notion. Sometimes it
works for you, sometimes it doesn't. And I'm sure that
you get the same thing. Snake's on a Plane. I
get the audition. It was for the role that my
brother Flex played as this rapper. It wasn't a well
written written movie. No shade to whoever wrote it. I'm

(48:53):
sure you're very important and successful, but come on now,
it's snakes on a plane. So I was like, you
know what, I'm gonna kill this audition. So what I
did is I read the script. Whent okay. So I
hired an actor to play my bodyguard. I hired a

(49:14):
few girls to be my backup dancers. I saw what
was on the page and I went, this scene. Is
what I'm gonna do is I got fully decked out
in my straight up, thugged out hip hop fit. Went
to the casting office in Avid Kenney. I waited for

(49:35):
my time, said, my time is three o'clock. So I'm
not even gonna sign in. I'm gonna wait. I looked in.
I saw there were people in the waiting room. There
were folks just waiting, and I knew where the cast
director office was. I waited until three. The assistant come
comes out. Of course they're looking. Then I had the
guy turned to it on the boombox. I played this

(49:58):
DMX beat, walked in the door, boomed, got boo, boom,
boom walked past everybody, walked into the cast Oh Wayne
is a shutout? Boom walked into the room. Oh Hi, Wayne,
you're gonna be reading this scene. I'm not reading your scene.
I freestyled. I freestyled the plot of snakes on a
plane from what I read in the script. I freestyled

(50:19):
the whole story. And then I freestyled about why the
script was whack. I freestyled about each of the people
at the table, and then I was, and then it
was something about and now I'm done, stupid ass script.
Took it and threw it, walked out, didn't even say,
just left, walked out the building, took it, took my

(50:39):
little entourage with me and gone. By the time that
i'd left, I was in my car, my cell phone,
my next tail rang. They'd called my agent. What we
want Wayne Brady. We want Wayne. Oh my god, he's

(51:01):
got to do Yes. We didn't know. We didn't know.
You didn't know, but I knew we didn't know. I
was like, I did it. Oh my god. I was
near tears. I said, I did it. I actually showed
them that I could, that I've got these colors. I
was happy for a few days. Then at some point
we get a call. Now I'm gonna say, these are
alleged people in it. Because I was not privy to

(51:23):
the call. I only heard what my agent told me,
So I'm going off of what my agent at the
time told me. So here's what my agent told me. Now,
this could be a lie, this, this could be but
what my agent told me when I was with WI
me at the time, Well, my agent told me was
the head of and I forget the name of the studio,
but I believe it was Toby Emeric. I'm gonna ask,

(51:50):
am I right about this? For snakes on the plane? No? No,
but yeah, but like I'm thinking, thinking big film, film exec.
I think it's Toby, very successful guy. I think it
came down from his office or someone that that Wayne Brady,
he's not black enough. Now I don't know if he
even saw the video or whatever. So I'm just going

(52:10):
by Well my agents told me, he goes, yeah, somebody
in the office they don't want you. You're not They
didn't think that you're the right. No, they don't think
that you're right. So the director wanted me. Other people
involved withn't wanted me, but the studio because of the
persona that they felt that they thought they didn't want me,

(52:31):
even though I went in there and he killed it.
I knew. You know those moments in your life when
you're like you can't Everyone in that waiting room should
should just gone gone home. I should just even told him.
I was like, oh man, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
I knew that, and at that point I realized that
I was facing a bigger problem. It's like, okay, this

(52:52):
image thing which can affect your career, It affects your money,
it affects what you eat. Like, I've got a bigger problem.
It's perception. It's how I'm perceived, and not just now. Now.
It's weird enough when another brother or sister looks at
you and goes, man, you know, I don't fuck with you,
But when somebody who doesn't look like you go goes,

(53:17):
you're not black enough? You know you're not? Or can
you do it more urban? Or you're not this? Can
you be more black? What the help for you to
tell me? That means that you feel really comfortable, or
you know a black friend, or you feel like I
don't know if anyone watching has ever been hit with
with with some dude who's trying way tors like, dog,

(53:38):
I'm black it and you are. It's like, no, that
is a one way ticket for you to find out
how black I am. Stereotypically, if you think, like I
told Bill Maher, like I told Bill Maher, find find
out how black black I am. If you think that
black equates violence and grabbing you dick, then we can
go there too. So I learned that. So from the

(53:58):
start of my villain era was, oh, that's the problem. Well,
now I can't care fuck y'all. I'm just gonna do
what I'm gonna do. And if you come around, you
come around. And it's been so freeing. Life is so free.
The people that love you love you. I walk on
the street and brothers and brothers and sisters I talked
to my I can play Atlanta, I played Detroit, I

(54:19):
play all over the country. I can go to the
heartland and play for rednecks. I can play for these
because I like to play for people, but I love
to play for my people. But more importantly, if you
like me, you're my people. You don't, that's that that's
when I messed with you. So my Villainaire actually gave
me the most freedom. So it's like, if you fuck

(54:41):
with me and you fuck me, if you don't fuck you,
that straight up that's it. You know what that story
reminds me of. It reminds me of Whitney Houston when
she got booed at the which awards was that Soul
Training Music Awards, which and us to get Bud's. So
she got booed at the Soul Train Music.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Oh when she first came out, first came out, and
it was because they were saying she was not black enough,
and they were saying, like, well, she said, I just sing.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
I just sing. I don't sing black music or white music.
I sing. And again it brings us both back to
the shit hurt, but we still move on. Yeah, and
to anyone listening or watching, because I can't wait to
see your comments because what I think, I don't want

(55:28):
anyone to hear. Oh, woe is me that shit hurts.
Like when I was on the Breakfast Club, I saw
comments because I get asked about the Chappelle thing, and
I tell the whole story that that won't go into.
And now why I didn't like Paul's joke. While I
loved Paul Mooney, I didn't like his joke and I
broke down the rationale and the science of black hate
and why I didn't like the joke, because the joke

(55:50):
then gave white people permission to say that to a
black man, it was like a whole thing. And then
you you you read, get over it. You're supposed to
take a joke because you're supposed to be a comedian, right,
you can't find something funny, I'm like, no, If if
I would have found it funny, I would have laughed.

(56:10):
But I'm telling you the reason why it hurt. So
don't confuse yes that hurt with I'm but hurt. Yeah,
I'm hurt from a place of I'm human and that's
my feeling. But I will go on. I'm gonna continue.
We're gonna go oh, I'm We're gonna try, yes, ma'am,
And we're gonna and here's the thing about me that
you may not say, but I will. I'm gonna strive
in richness, bitch, yes, bitch, So please please believe that.

(56:34):
Don't don't you dare think that because I ain't at
to be et it wold that I'm not. I'm not
funneling all the coins bitch that I'm making into my
into my uh savings in law on bitch, Oh yeah,
because when I'm at home crying about not being at
at a big award show. I'm watching an award show
in my big ass house in Malibu, so I'm not
even gonna play. You know what. I'm a kid from

(56:55):
TAngelo Park living in a one bedroom house that didn't
have lunch some days. So yeah, oh, I'm so sad
I wasn't there for that one show. Let me get
into my aston Martin. Yes, I'm so.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Yes, I want to let you know that I'm laying
on my ten thousand dollars sofa, yeah, and my million
and SOMEI dollar mansion too, and I'm going over to
my other house son to make sure that just for fun,
so I don't want don't get it confused.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Which is which are the fruits of hard work and
putting in that hustle? Yes, you put in that hustle.
Now I'm gonna do this car too.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
But as I want to go back to something because
I feel like we're so kindred.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Me too.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I just this is my first time meeting you in person,
but I've watched you, but I feel we're so kindred,
and I want to talk about like the villain arrogant.
I know, I know we but I want to talk
about the villain when people try to villainize you. In
my eyes as well, that you didn't talk about is
when you said you were pants sexual.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Mm hmm. I got so many people messaging me and
communicate with me that are you gonna talk about I
was like, well, yeah, we could talk about it.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
We could talk about when you anyway, when you when
you when your pants busted and you had on those
rainbow draws, that was a that was people that don't
get it ain't gonna get how you how you respond,
you respond to ship in a way that that that
those that's gonna get it get it. Because your pants

(58:31):
busted and you had on the rainbow flag draw Yes
it did. I said, look at that ship that nigga
just seld you and.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
And it took a long time to get to that point.
I couldn't have had this conversation five years ago, ten
years ago, because I was still trying to work shit out,
especially when we you know, and I hate to bring
everything back to race, but I think it's naive. Sometimes
the folks are like, race has nothing to do with
It's not race because race is a construct, but culture.
So let's say so so the culture that we have

(59:02):
as as black people, specifically the black American experience. Right
we fimn it? Camera just die? Oh I'm sorry, No, no,
I heard it. I heard that bitch powered down like
a transform offline. I heard that thing with like a transformer. See,

(59:31):
it's all for the best because now you get to
come back. And one thing about one thing a transformer
knows is when something optimus fine, Optimus fine, I'm gonna
take that. That that I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna
remake that. I'm optimus fine, bitch, I'm optimus fine. You

(59:52):
are brilliant. I'm yeah you. I would love to work
with you one day. We need to let let's manifest
that sitting there, confess that, and then I'm just that
I wish even if I'm not in front of the camera,
I'm just whispering like, bitch, this d pan sexual, pant sexual.
I know what it is. What does it mean to you? What?

(01:00:15):
I'm so glad you phrased it like that. What does
it mean to me? In my research and in my
heart work, what pan sexual means is being open to
an attraction both mental, spiritually physical, to any gender. So

(01:00:37):
what I understand is a pan sexual can be attracted
to a man, a woman, someone who identifies as non binary,
and also someone who identifies as a trans woman or
a transman. So then there's that layer layer of not
just a man or what, but a transman or a

(01:00:59):
trans woman, the whole spectrum, which when my daughter was
actually the one. God bless my daughter Miley. A shout
out to Miley who she hipped me to it, because
I was very honest with my family at some point
when I was like, Okay, here's the thing. I'm trying
to work shit out, and she said, Dad, you may
be pan sexual. I went, well, pan, all right, so

(01:01:22):
pan but I've never heard heard that I know bisexual,
And for a minute, to myself, I did identify as bisexual,
and I was going to run with that. And when
I've spoken spoken out about this before, I've gotten some
pushback from some people in the in the queer community

(01:01:42):
that identifies by saying, well, now I'm adding to by erasure,
which is a real thing. But I'm not because when
I say I'm not adding to erasure, I'm just saying
for me, for me, I realized, because if you say
and maybe it's just a semantic thing, because I think
it's semantics too, because if you buy, then why wouldn't

(01:02:04):
you also be attracted to a trans woman or transman,
Because because ultimately it's still a man or woman that
you are dealing with, So why wouldn't you be So
it's all labels and blah blah blah, it's all labels.
So when I said pan, I said, this is what
feels good to me. I want to be able to say, Oh,

(01:02:25):
I'm attracted to that gentleman, I'm attracted to that CIS woman,
I'm attracted to this beautiful trans woman. I'm attracted to
this trans man. And the common link of all, I'm
attracted to this person who who identifies as non binary.
And the thing that connects all of them is I

(01:02:46):
wouldn't be attracted to any of them if I wasn't
attracted to the person. So when I was told this
thing about hearts not parts, oh that makes complete sense.
That I can be drawn to somebody regardless. Then if
I open myself up to that, I'm that I can

(01:03:07):
be attracted to and be drawn to you because of
our connection, that I don't care what you have between
your legs. That's that's second. That right, we are going
to get there at some point. All that magical happened, great,
but I need to be with you. And that was
a breakthrough moment for me because I realized that that's why,
in all my years of being alive and having relationships,

(01:03:33):
I never fully gave myself because I was always in turmoil,
because I always had this thing that I was either
fighting or questioning if I'm wrong? Am I lying? Am
I this? Oh? Blah blah blah blah. So now I'm
at a point where I've voiced it, I've put it

(01:03:53):
out in the world. Now it's come and get it.
You told me earlier, we talked about it, you know, offline.
You said someone called you and was like, hey, you
know these people over here asking me h. And it's
just like, well, what they're asking you for? Yeah? Like
my friend was like, oh, my boys are asking what's

(01:04:13):
up with Wayne? I said, and what did you? What'd
you say? On my behalf? You have nothing to speak of.
What's up with Wayne? Is Wayne is actually in a
good place where where he feels no shame, being able
to come out and say that this is who I am.
And I think that going back to something that we

(01:04:34):
even talked talked a little bit off camera. Is you know,
I feel where the queer community meets the straight community
is we allow ourselves to feel this shame, especially as
black men. Which is why, in my opinion, I don't

(01:04:54):
say this because I'm some expert from what I've observed
and maybe what I felt. If we did not create
an environment of shame, even just amongst ourselves as a
black community, if we didn't create this shame of well,
you're less than or I'm gonna look down on you.
If you're queer, if you're anything other than the most

(01:05:16):
hyper masculine of masculine, you know you had doom. If
you're anything but this guy, If you're anything but that,
then you're not valid. If we didn't feel that shame,
you wouldn't have brothers on the down low. If you
didn't have brothers on the downlow, you wouldn't have people
that are in relationships that feel that they have to

(01:05:39):
lie and steal time and in some cases hurt the
people even physically, because they've been practicing unsafe practices in
the shadows, because nothing good will happen in a shadow.
Nothing good will happen in a shadow. But if you
look at people and you go, ugh, you can't be

(01:06:01):
that thing because God says that you can't be that thing,
and it's not right. And you take that and you
internalize it. You're still gonna do what you're gonna do,
except you're gonna do it in the shadow. Don't do that.
I didn't want to feel any shame. I want to
be able to walk into any red carpet with anybody
that I so choose, because that is my right. I
want to be happy at some point with anyone that

(01:06:23):
I choose, because that is my right, like it is yours,
like it is yours, like it is yours. That's our problem.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Yes, And you want to be able to leave if
you didn't come with the red carp with anybody, you
want to be able to leave or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
It's whatever, heart and not their part, right, and the
parts will come with it now, and hey, it's it's
a bonus if if the parts are amazing. But yeah,
so nobody's ever gonna be like aha, proudly and proudly,
this is my person, this is their name, yes, and

(01:06:56):
these are their parts, and these are their part, yes,
that I hold in my hand exactly. Glory be to God.
Now take your pictures so we can go back home.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
I don't know ya, all right, So we've come to
this part of the show. It's called rebel with a Cause. Okay,
this show is called Outlaws for a reason. An outlaw
or a pariah in our culture, it's often someone who
ironically has their heart in the right place, someone with
the courage to speak up and stand out, push back
when it matters the most. And the guests on my show,

(01:07:23):
the Outlaws, are some of the voices of our time.
They are rebel hearts who are challenging the status quo
and making a difference. So tell me about a cause
that you care deeply about and how can we contribute
to it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Well, there are two. One it's the Alzheimer's Association. And
I lost my grandmother that I spoke about earlier, who
she was my heart. I lost her to Alzheimer's and
to dementia. I've had other relatives to come to the disease.

(01:08:06):
It's insidious. And so I am going to be the
Alzheimer's Association's ambassador, want one of their first entertainment ambassadors,
and to and to really delve into the science of
it and to raise funds to help fight and raise
a cure. And that was just selfish. That's because I

(01:08:27):
want to get rid of this thing that took my mama.
But also in doing my research, I find out that
the African American community, we are two times more likely
to have Alzheimer's and dementia in in our families. It's

(01:08:48):
the sugar. I didn't know. I didn't the sugar. Is
that sweet ass kool aid? Is the the sugar. It's
the sugar that we're highly likely to have diabetes. We are.
It is the sugar. I'm so sorry that that's my daughter.

(01:09:09):
She has been blowing me up the whole time because
she she knew that I was coming on the show,
so so she wanted me to tell you how we're
gonna We're gonna FaceTime hut to say you say, hey, yeah,
it's just the sugar. It's that we man, It's so
much talk about like that system that we talked about earlier.
You know that that that that black folks have managed

(01:09:30):
to thrive in. It's also part of that where in
our neighborhoods, it's easier to eat cheap, it's easier to
find these things that are not built for the body.
For the body, not even gonna say for a black body.
I think for humans like we should that that's what

(01:09:50):
is a big problem in the US in terms terms
of our our food food in the way way you
got to understand that stuff was passed down to us.
It's been past that general generation even going back. You
know when we talk about soul food. Now, trust me,
I love me some soul food. When you come to
and let her come to the house. Oh, don't make
a promise. It's gonna be some sugars in that now, Okay. Now,

(01:10:12):
and I take my gout and medication. I took it
this morning because my big toe star starts to tingle.
Mean means you been eating good. But even the origins
of soul food for you know, like in the show
that I'm writing, I talk about improvisation, not not just
as it pertains to me, but black people we've learned
to improvise from the beginning. We improvise with our language,

(01:10:34):
with our art, with the way we move, with the
way we talk, our slang, and even with our food
we improvise with It's so funny that the things that
that that that the people in the house didn't see
fit to eat, they chop off the bits of fat,
they throw it, We take it, and now we make
it into a culinary masterpiece. But just because it tastes
good doesn't mean it's good for us. That's how it's
been set up. So even linking any of these causes

(01:10:57):
to Alzheimer's two times, not just one and a half times,
two times that one and a half times. It's the
Latin Latin American population. They are one and a half
times more likely we are two times. So that's very
near and dear to my heart. To raise awareness, to
raise funds, and because I don't think that we know
that that is a problem in our community. And the

(01:11:17):
other thing that I am passionate about that I've been
an ally, but I felt like a fake ally because
instead of fighting from the sidelines, I wanted to be
fighting as part of the army is for queer rights,
for trans rights, for representation. Because I got told you
in the beginning, you and I have other I have

(01:11:41):
a niece, my beautiful niece in Hawaii who transitioned and
is really being who she is and living life authentically
and right. I have so many people in my circle
in life that I love and I want to fight
and protect. So I along with GLAD and other organizations

(01:12:03):
raising money, going out and speaking, being from Florida, which
is definitely not one of the friendliest black or queer
spaces around. And my drama teacher Karen that I had
in high school, who's still one of my dearest friends.
She she is in the community and has been married

(01:12:26):
to her wife, Susan for years and years. I'm trying
to help her and her theater company out in Orlando
to be able to use art to spread this this
this this message of being anti anti, being anti the anti.
So so I'm very passionate about that because you inspire

(01:12:48):
me everyone who, like I said in the beginning, your
simple act of living and breathing is defiance. That's when
I really believed when I came out, I knew that,
how dare I just watch from the side, knowing how

(01:13:10):
I felt and how I identified and using even the
little bit of privilege as a as a straight presenting
black man to not be in the fight and love
and protect my brothers and sisters who are there, And

(01:13:30):
that inspire me. So that's what I'm passionate about. Oh,
that just made me feel so good. But it brings
me to this last part of our show. Yes, ma'am,
it's called bannit Bitch, banit bitch? What can we ban?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
So in this segment, some people out here are banning
drag shows, LBGTQ, plus books and even our very existence.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
But we're flipping the script.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Okay, what's something if you rule the world with you
ban Now, here's how it works. We both each get
a minute and we make our case for what needs
to go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
The producers will keep track of the time, like when
thirty seconds come and ten seconds will come with ten
seconds left. So I'm gonna kick it off first so
that you see how it works, and then you follow
my lead.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Can we try something with this? Can can we do this?
But can we go back back, back and forth and
trade it? You want to? You want to ban it together,
so we can ban it? Okay, because we can ban equally.
But then it's up to bat bat bat bet. You
want to do that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
All right, Well, let's do it, Okay, So I'm gonna
do it. So this is how's it worked. I'm gonna
look at the camera. So what we're gonna do, I'm
gonna say my name is T. S. Madison.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
My name is Wayne Brady.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
And if I or the ruler of the world, this
is what I would ban. And if I were the
ruler of the world, this is what I'd banned. I
would ban people judging people for the relationships that they
get in.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
I would ban people who have no business asking an
interracial couple if that's their baby. I would ban men
who look at other men as weak for crying. I
would ban men who choose to use someone to be
on the down low with someone who is trends and

(01:15:26):
just use them for their own use and not want
to hold their hand in the day. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
I would ban those that look at men or judge
men that are with trans people. I would ban them.
I would ban them from just existing, like get the
fuck out of here. Allow these people to love whoever
they love out loud.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
I would ban a politician from thinking that it's more
dangerous to have a drag queen read a story to
a school than it is to change a gun law.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
I would ban the guns from being able to be
in the hands of those that can't wield it right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I would ban somebody. I'm all for free freedom of speech,
but I would ban ban a place where someone feels
that hate speech is okay if they couch it in.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
I would ban those that want to uh demonize those
that respond to those that that that use free speech
as a crutch or a way to say whatever the
fuck they want to say.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
Yes, I would ban anyone that wants to erase the
existence of a people or a culture. So that means
I would ban the current administration period. Was that a minute?
So we did it? When waguan speak speak no speak, Okay,

(01:16:50):
you know I'm from Miami. I didn't. Oh, I didn't
know that you're from from Miami. So I'm a Floridian too,
So this was like when I know so many people
out here from Miami, Tampa, and Orlando because we had
to leave. Yeah, we're Floridians.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
We know what it's like to be from that place,
and we encourage people that have dreams and aspirations. Get out,
get out, go do what you need to do. Yes,
I want to thank you so much for coming to
the show. I'm gonna exchange my number with you. I'm
gonna text you. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna fan
girl this. You text me any time I'm gonna text
and communicate and chop it up with you. He said,

(01:17:30):
you've done Broadway. I know you've done Broadway. I want
to do Broadway. I want to tell you one of
my dreams that i'd like to be. He's got your number.
Now he knows just what you've done. You've got nowhere
to hide, You've got nowhere to run. What he knows
your life of crime.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Man, I think it's supper time. Come on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
I want to be Audrey to have you said this
out loud. I've always any anytime I want to interview anywhere.
I always tell people because I think that I would
embody everything. The new version of audidt right right now.
It's vulgar.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
It's on right now. I want to be vulgar loud,
live and car. I want to be the vulgar I
want to say. I want to let you know, honey,
then I'm a mean green motherfucker from out of space
and bitch, I'm bad you. The producers of Little Shop
it's on Broadway right now. It's off Broadway right now. Yeah,
they need to come on now, yeah, come on now.

(01:18:29):
I just want to I want you to wiggle me
in somewhere and music. I don't know, you said, I don't,
but just you saying I did, you saying, what's a microphone?
I usually can do that. Well, own that. Oh I
cannot wait to do something with you. It's a microphone.
You are wonderful. You are wonderful, Mama. Thank you so much,

(01:18:49):
my baby, Thank you for having Thank you for letting
me have you. Well, it's good to be had, ain't
it though? Come on now watch your husband close your eyes?
All right, y'all? Bye? Bye? Was it good?

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Outlaws is a production of the Outspoken Network from iHeart
Podcasts and Turtle Run Entertainment, co created by Tyler Ravennowitz
and Olivia Piece. I'm your host, Tis Madison.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
We are executive produced by Tyler Ravennowitz, Maya Howard and
Tis Madison. Our simpervising producer is Jessica Krinchich, and our
producers are Joey pat and Common Moral. Our video editor
is Tyler Rabinowitz and our sound editor is Just Crinchich.
Our associate producer is Trend High Tower Special Thanks to
our producer's assistant, Daniel Rabinowitz. Our theme song is composed

(01:19:39):
by Wazi Merritt Our show art is by Pablo Montana.
Got You Next week, Honey,