July 26, 2021 • 46 mins
One prominent conservative is drawing a line in the sand. “I am no longer a Republican,” Jenna Ellis said recently, “until the party decides that it wants to be conservative again.” For this podcast, Gianno talks to Ellis about why she’s leaving the GOP, the future of the party, and the 2022 and 2024 elections. Plus, Ellis, who served as President Trump’s legal adviser, gives us an update on all his 2020 legal challenges.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Up next, Ow Wow with Gianno called part of the gang.
WI one prominent conservative is drawn a line in the sand,
she said, quote, I am no longer a Republican. She
went on to say, until the party decides that it
wants to be conservative again. Today this ex Republican I
discussed why she left the party and debate the future
(00:22):
of the GOP. This is outlined with Gianno called ye.
Welcome back to Allow with Gianno called blow. I'm Gianno
called blow, and I've got a great show for you
guys this week. My guests is Jenna Ellis, a lawyer
(00:44):
who served as legal advisor for President Trump and his
re election campaign, and she was also named to his
legal team that challenged the election results. Currently, Ellis is
a contributor for Newsmax and holds her own show Just
the Truth on Real America's Voice. She also launched the
Election Integrity Alliance. Today I asked Alice about her decision
(01:07):
to leave the GOP in the future of the party
and we look forward too, Let's go. So we've been
trying to do this for a while, and what I
mean by this is have someone who's been a superstar
and the Republican Party and the conservative movement. You may
know her as a conservative that voices issues on a
(01:27):
lot of things, but she's someone who really got her
big star when she defended President Trump with Rudy Giuliani
among some election fraud cases. So I want to welcome
to Outlow with Gianno Caldwell, Jenna Ellis. Pleasure to be
on with you. Thank you so much, Gianno. It's great.
And I know we've been talking about Dennis for a
while and I really appreciate your very strong conservative voice
(01:50):
as well. So thank you for everything that you do. No,
I really appreciate that. Now. I want to jump right
into it because you want You're somebody that a lot
of folks respect. A lot of Republicans have hit there
on you. They appreciate what you did for President Donald
Trump um defending him, and recently you caused a stir
earlier this month when you announced that you you're officially
(02:13):
leaving the Republican Party. You called on all top Republican
officials to rason and accuse the GOP of no longer
being conservative. Could you elaborate on why you left the
party and why you're upset with his leadership. Yeah, it's
a great question. And you know, I have always been
someone who is a conservative based on my principles and
(02:34):
based on uh, the Judeo Christian ethic, that our country
was founded upon an understanding that that world best statement
in our Declaration of Independence that says that we hold
these truths to be self evident, that all men are
created equal, They're endowed by God, our creator, with certain
unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty in the pursuit
of happiness. Um, that's principled, because we can't have true
(02:58):
equality without under standing who our creator is and understanding
that all human beings have inherent dignity and worth. And Uh,
the founding of our nation and the reason I love
the brilliance of our constitution is that America was the
first nation in world history to actually be predicated and
our system of government predicated based on recognition of those
(03:21):
fundamental truths. And so conservatism as an idea is conserving
those truths and is recognizing that the sole responsibility of
government is to preserve and protect our individual rights. And
so I'm not just pro choice, I'm not just uh,
you know, a Christian. I'm not just pro capitalism and
(03:42):
all of these different philosophies in different arenas um to
to me. And and the best understanding of our system
of government and the reality to which we're presented is
understanding that this is a comprehensive philosophy that's rooted in
truth and the identity of the One True God of
the Bible. And so I say all of that as
a predicate to say that I have um been conservative
(04:06):
for my life. I've been a member of the Republican
Party for all my life. Certainly I'm growing in the
grace and knowledge of the of my Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ, but I also am fundamentally always willing to
stand up and speak for the truth. And when I
first got a phone call from President Trump and UM,
he actually just called me out of the blue. He
(04:28):
had seen me on TV defending the Constitution, and he said,
you know, I have some questions for you. UM, I
want to talk about this. This is in the context
of the first impeachment, hoped, and I just laid out.
I gave him, you know, my honest opinion of the law.
We talked about the philosophy of the Constitution, and UM,
all of these things. He has such a great depth
of knowledge of of our history as Americans, and he
(04:51):
wants to protect that aspect of conservatism. It was one
of the greatest privileges of my life to work for
him defend him. And so this is more than just
me saying politically, I differ with how we can best
implement our system of government, or I differ a little
bit with the Republican Party's platform. This is all about truth.
(05:12):
And when you have the Republican Party that is going
so big tent and is saying having Ronn McDaniel, who's
the chairwoman, tweet and post UH four in support of
Pride Month, for example, and saying that human sexuality, apart
from understanding the biological measurable differences between men and women,
(05:35):
the truth of moral human sexuality, that is not a
Conservative principle and that's not the traditional Republican Party. But
then even further than that, I've always spoken up for
that truth. And um, then when the Republican Party, Jano
went so far as to lie to the American people
in the aftermath of the election and tell America in
(06:00):
when Rudy Giuliani and I and Bernie Kyrrick and others
were standing in the face of threats in the face
of other lawyers quitting and saying we have to get
to the truth of what happened in the Republican Party
was telling the American people that they supported us, but
their chief council, Justin Reamer sent an email in early
(06:22):
November to other members of the GOP from his GEOP
official address saying what Rudy and Jenna are doing is
a joke. And he disclaimed the effort for the truth
privately multiple times, and the RNC fundraised over two hundred
(06:43):
and twenty million dollars from Americans saying that they were
fighting for election integrity when they weren't. And so that's
my problem is that they're lying. And Rona McDaniel knew
that I spoke to her directly the night that I
received that email from an inside RNC was a blower.
In November, she promised me and Rudy and the President
(07:04):
that she was going to fire Justin, that he would
be gone by morning. We thought she had lived up
to her word, and it's only been in recent weeks
that we've learned not only is that not correct, but
she's now going on national media and denying the entire story.
I have the email I have the text messages. This
is not about me and her. This is about a
(07:25):
battle for the truth and that the American people need
to know. The Republican Party now is so divorced from
genuine conservative principles and what it actually means to be
an American. I can't stand up now, Gianno and say
I am a member of that party. Otherwise I'm no
longer advocating for the truth or for the truth that
President Trump fought so hard for. Wow, you, I mean,
(07:48):
you gave us a lot to digest there. So just
a couple of things here. One is the issue with
r N c um and you say that Ronald McDonald
lied to you. She said that she was going to
fire just than she did not, and she's saying that
she didn't say that she was going to fire justin.
But also this this area of conservatism, the principles, the
(08:11):
the principles of the conservative movement not being followed by
today's Republican Party, which is also the same accusations that
they made, many folks made. And when Donald Trump took
over the Republican Party, how do you how do those
two do two things differ? Yeah, So that's a great question.
And you know, initially, a lot of people know, and
(08:33):
my Twitter haters love to point out, then initially I
wasn't a supporter of Donald Trump in the primaries of Um,
it's a well known fact that I supported Ted Cruz.
And obviously the world of politics is a closed universe
situation where you only have X number of candidates and
you have to choose the best from among them. UM.
(08:55):
I don't think there's ever been a candidate, nor ever
will be that I'll agree a hundred percent with their
their political philosophy or their political policy determinations. Um. There
were things, and even after I worked for President Trump
in his administration, that I personally disagreed with, and that's okay.
But what I came to recognize is that people who
(09:16):
were completely disavowing Donald Trump calling out his former lifestyle
that wasn't Christian, Well, that's true, and I have never
ever endorsed that. Of course, you know, any sort of
conduct that goes against the Bible is sinned by definition.
I'm not a perfect person. I repent of my sin daily, hopefully,
(09:36):
and um, Jesus's blood covers all. But what I came
to recognize is that everything that the left was impugning
Donald Trump for was actually when he was a registered Democrat.
So people change, and I personally after them. Getting to
know Donald Trump. I heard him speak in July. He
said so very clearly at the Western Conservative Summit. I
(10:00):
was then a professor at Colorado Christian University. I heard
him speak and he articulated the conservative philosophy of government,
of why we are supposed to have limited government, of
why America is founded on these principles, and I became
a supporter of his and I'm very grateful that I did,
(10:21):
because he has been the most pro life, conservative, god
fearing president of my lifetime. And he is willing to
stand up and go to the pro life marches, the
March for Life. He's he was willing to stand up
and say from Mount Rushmore last fourth of July, where
I was grateful to be in attendance with him, to
(10:41):
talk about the founding of America on on God's principles
of truth and and the biblical understanding of the philosophy
of government. And so while his past may not be perfect,
in his presence he absolutely is a conservative. Now I'm
not saying if he's a perfect person, neither a mine,
(11:02):
but what I'm saying is what I support about Donald Trump,
and I'm proud to support him, is that he is
genuinely conservative where the Republican Party used to be. But
instead of making that change from Democrat to Republican like
he did, liberal to conservatives, they're going backward and the
Republican Party is now no longer conservatives. So if that
(11:24):
be the case, the Republican Party is no longer conservative,
you're no longer a Republican, but you're still a conservative.
Where do you go from here? I mean, clearly, you
have a two party system. Unless Trump, which he hasn't
said that he would have the Party of Trump. What
would you do with your vote? Sure, there is a
(11:45):
beautiful thing in my home state of Colorado, where I
am still a registered and active voter. I've been involved
in Colorado politics a long time. There's a beautiful thing
called unaffiliated, and so that's my intention is to become unaffiliated.
I can still in the primaries, but even more importantly,
well there's probably nothing more important than my vote, but
(12:06):
just as importantly, I can still advocate for genuinely conservative candidates,
and if they're running under the Republican ticket, that's fine.
But what we need is genuine conservative to stand up
and disclaim where the Republican National Party is going and
say we are still going to run and I don't
(12:27):
I don't care, frankly, if they're running as a Republican
or an independent or a Tea party or whatever. If
they are going into government office to champion conservative, truth
based principles, I will support them, and I would encourage
my fellow Americans who are listening to this. We need
to disclaim false non truth and maybe if enough of
(12:48):
us stop supporting the rnc's idea of being big tentant,
we can either start a new party or we can
bring the Republican Party back to conservative tism so as
it is now. If the Republican Party had new leadership,
had someone who is willing to stand for truth, unlike
Ronald McDaniel, who is willing to not be a liar,
(13:10):
I would certainly be open to reregistering as a Republican.
But where I'm going from here is supporting individual candidates
that are willing to also champion the values that I
so deeply cherish, and family, faith and freedom issues are
so important. We can't just have this idea of a
two party system and say, well, I guess I have
(13:32):
to go along with the R and C because that's
the best we're going to get. I I reject that.
I think we can do better. Have you talked to
Donald Trump about any of this you leave in the
party or um, some of the things that you were
told by the chairwoman as to what they were going
to do with the lawsuits or any any of those things.
Have you spoken with him recently? That's also a great question.
(13:55):
And yes, I speak to him frequently. In fact, the
day that this all came out, I called him and
I said, I just want you to know that you know,
this is what happened. I briefly described the situation, and
I said, you know, I'm not willing to support Rona's lies.
And and he knew by the way, UM, he was
well informed by myself and Rudy Giuliani of everything that
(14:17):
had gone on with with Justin and UM. And it's
my understanding I wasn't present when he and Rona may
or may not have talked, but it's my understanding that
they did talk. And she made the same promise to him,
and she told us she would she would promise Trump
to fire justin. He was well aware of that whole
situation back in November, and so, UM, you know that
(14:38):
wasn't something that was a surprise to him. UM. And
I can I can just tell you that you know,
he he has always and I respect him for this.
He has always valued me telling him the truth. And
that's a promise that I made to him when I
first started working for him, because you may not always
you know, like or prefer it, UM, but I will
always tell you the truth, unlike so many other people
(15:00):
in Washington that operate out of politics, UM and and
their own self interest. I've told so many people around
him who don't like the fact that I'm telling him
the truth about um, you know, whether it's policy, whether
it's what he how he could act in his presidential capacity, constitutionally,
whatever it was. There were people that didn't like that
(15:21):
I told him the truth. And I always told them,
you know, I'm here to serve at the pleasure of
the president. And if you know, someday I don't get
to anymore and I leave DC, that's fine, I go
back to Colorado, that's fine. But as long as I'm here,
I'm going to have integrity. And so he was appreciative
of my call, and you know, we're certainly still in touch.
(15:42):
So do you think Donald Trump has lost faith in
the Republican Party and his leadership? As you ask? You know,
I can't speak for him on that, and I'm certainly
not going to get ahead of him on that, but
I do think and I know from him that he
is always very concerned about making sure that we as
(16:03):
as a group of conservatives, you know, juxtapose against the
Nancy Polos Shumers of the world, are doing the right thing.
So so you know, my my thought is he's probably
you know, watching this and and it's carefully considering what
he would and wouldn't say publicly. But I'm but I'm
sure that he's concerned, and I know that he is
always as well an advocate for the truth. We're talking
(16:25):
to Jenna Ellis, the prominent attorney who served as President
Trump's legal advisor. We've got much more with her right
after a break. So I want to shift now to
all the Trump losses concerned in the election. You clearly
would deeply involve you, help lead the strategy with Rudy Giuliani.
Where does any of this stand today? Are all the
(16:49):
cases done um, and people have been saying, oh, Trump
is gonna become back president again in August. I'm not
sure where that's coming from. But can you walk us
through what happened and what's going on and if there's
anything to be expected in the future. Yeah, that's a
great question. Well, first off, absolutely, we can still expect
that the fight for election integrity is continuing. And as
(17:13):
a colleague of mine just said to me yesterday, it's
actually election justice. We need to make sure that in
this country justice prevails. And what happened in just very
briefly is that there were so much evidence right away
of election officials, co workers, secretaries of state governors, everyone
(17:36):
from the executive branch from the top all the way
down to the administrators of the election that in at
least five states we're talking Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona,
that their elections were so lawless and so completely against
(17:59):
the laws of the state that the legislature set up
which constitutionally the state legislature directs the manner of elections,
it was so lawless in its administration that the election
result was irredeemably compromised. It was so thoroughly corrupted that
(18:20):
in the initial about six to eight weeks that we
had in the aftermath of November three, there was still
so much coming out, witnesses, documents, videos that you know,
we've since recovered, um, you know the one out of
Georgia that came very late showing you know, the ballots
that were under the table in suitcases. Now some of
(18:41):
the audits that are happening, the truth is continuing to
come out. But in the immediate aftermath of what was
so readily apparent, because we knew that the Democrats were
trying to harness COVID as a pretext to push in
universal vote by mail, there were ballots that scanned multiple times.
(19:01):
There were ballots, all of these mail in ballots. There's
some that were sent out with no record, there were
ones that were counted without poll watchers being present. And
you know, if you open an envelope of a mail
in ballot at that point it's compromised. You can't ever
put the ballot back in the envelope and guarantee the
chain of customing. All of these issues right, So, initially
(19:23):
the plan was twofold. One was a litigation track to
have a judicial order telling the state legislatures, yes, this
has been compromised, and to stop the certifications to Congress
of the electors. And then the state legislatures would have
the authority to determine which slate would go absent a
(19:46):
judicial order of that nature. The state legislatures have the
inherent constitutional authority was called planary power, meaning absolute. It's
only up to that what slate of electors they send.
And what a lot of people don't realize, Ciano, is
that even in American history prior to eighteen twenty four,
so for our initial presidential election, the people vote, the
(20:09):
popular vote didn't determine this slate of electors. It was
actually electors were sent by the state legislatures. Because the
idea was initially that we vote and we select our
local representation, and our national government is so small, the
national government is only supposed to represent the will of
the state legislatures. So all of this whole idea of
(20:30):
disenfranchisement and you know, and whatever is just historically ignorant.
And what the Constitution actually provides for is that the
state legislatures are the ultimate authority on which delegates to
the Electoral College actually are sent to Congress. And so
our argument in the immediate aftermath was telling and and
(20:51):
begging those state legislators to do their constitutional job because
we had so much evidence hours I mean eight and
ten our hearings in front of these legislatures that Rudy
and I attended, showing them there is so much here
that you cannot possibly allow a certification to go to
Congress and say and declare to Congress that you know
(21:15):
that this slate is the will of the people, and
it's certainly not the will of the legislatures who are
majority Republican in all of those states. Right, So they
refused to do that because there's spineless cowards, and also
because the RNC the national and this is the problem
with nationalizing politics. The RNC didn't get involved and asked
(21:36):
the state leadership to actually do the constitutionally appropriate thing. So,
now that the certifications that are based on absolutely false information,
we're sent to Congress. Of course, you January six, they
were counted in Congress and the Electoral College voted. So
now we have a president who is the president, but
(22:00):
he was installed in a manner that was antithetical to
the constitution. So what happens next? Do we just sit
back and say, oh, well, you know that short time frame. Whatever. No,
the argument changes because we're now post January six. But
the truth still matters, and that's why the audits are important. UM.
(22:22):
But that's also why litigation is still very important. UM.
And by the way, we did not we meaning President
Trump's to trains on behalf of him or the campaign,
did not file sixty plus lawsuits. When you see that,
that's a Democrat talking point. Um. Anybody can file a lawsuit.
That doesn't mean that you're representing a certain person or entity.
(22:42):
The campaign itself we filed less than a dozen lawsuits. Um.
They were strategic and they were um in those those
five states. And the unfortunate thing about the judicial track
was we were told, well, you don't have standing, which
is the legal concept. You can't even put your piece
on the game board to start playing the game and
(23:03):
to start litigating to get to the merits. They just
didn't even want to hear it. And so then the
Texas versus Pennsylvania case where Kim Paxton, who's one of
my favorite people, he's um been an advocate for truth
ordinately in the judicial arena. Uh he and then ultimately
seventeen other states filed the Texas versus Pennsylvania lawsuit because
(23:27):
under the Constitution Article three, which defines the judiciary, if
you have a case and the controversy, which clearly there's
a controversy here we all know it between states a
state susan other states, then it has to go on
the trial level to the Supreme Court, because think about it,
what other venue would be fair. So when they filed that,
(23:48):
the Supreme Court actually had no choice but to accept
that case. Now they didn't, and that was constitutionally impermissible.
But that was ultimately the goal of the legislative track
was to get that or some case to the Supreme Court.
Similarly as the Supreme Court did take up the book
(24:08):
should be Gore case and they made a ruling, and
that is is what the judiciary is supposed to do.
So all of those things now are we're post January six.
But now what the state legislatures absolutely can do is
to still look at their irredeemably compromised elections. They can
put back election state parks, they can have signature matching,
(24:30):
not have vote by mail. They can the state legislature
should stop delegating their authority to these secretaries of states
that are Democrat operatives and reclaim their ability to make
sure that the correct slate of delegates in every future
election goes to the Electoral College. There's a lot of
things they can do. UM. I'm a chairperson of the
(24:51):
Election Integrity Alliance. We and our allies of our sixty
different organizations are working on this um and then even
more certaintly, we are also still continuing to advocate for
the truth of because as this comes out, and as
more and more evidence shows that the States did the
(25:13):
improper thing, these are false certifications. We are going to
as the country, have to have a reckoning on this.
And there are people who advocate a lot of other theories. Um,
they can speak for themselves on those. I will always
advocate for constitutionally viable remedies. And one of those remedies,
of course, is to get to the truth and having
(25:36):
and I mean, we are in the midst of a
constitutional crisis and we are going to have to have
a reckoning. And the constitution provides for several methods of
a president leaving office. Resignation is one and removal through
impeachment is another. If our system of government is operating correctly,
(25:58):
we would have impeachment of Joe by the Kamala Harris
on the basis of election fraud or similarly as what
happened to to President Nixon. There would be so much
American demand of we the people that we don't have
a usurper in office and demand for his and Kamala
Harris's resignation, and then our country and and Congress, which
(26:21):
has the authority in the Article two, could then deal
with how we then installing next president. There's a line
of Succession Act, and there are some other arguments, but
that's where we need to go with it. Okay, So
you think that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris needs to
be impeached because of election fraud, and you you mentioned
(26:43):
the video of where they pulled out the suitcase with
the ballots, so we know that that happened. We know
that there was election fraud and this this election has
been proven, so we get that. But to the degree
that it would overturn the election in this entirety, I've
not seen any evidence of that. I know you guys
had the the statements from the pole watchers and people
(27:05):
who saw different things, and I'm sure that there's folks
out there who had their hand at it and try
to ensure that Joe Biden would win. We get that,
I understand that, But the Supreme Court didn't take it.
They didn't take the case, and it seems as though
there wasn't this insurmountable evidence that was presented that that
told the story at least with a media narrative outside
(27:25):
of what you mentioned, which is the state's delegated or
rather their general symbolis delegated the authority to secretaries of states.
You look at Georgia where there was an illegal deal
made with Stacy Abrahams and some other folks. So we've
seen all of that, but is there anything else that
could lead to that conclusion that the election was stolen
(27:48):
outside of those Yeah, and so, and this is why
it was so important that people understand. We never got
to have a hearing on the merits and so, while
I've been making this case to the media, sent you know,
back in November, we have never had the opportunity in
a judicial context to present evidence. But this is why
(28:08):
the oddests are so important. So you mentioned Georgia. What's
coming out of Fulton County right now? Justin Fulton County alone,
there are enough irregularities and suspect questionable ballots that by
law should be removed from the calculation for certification that
that alone would flip Georgia to President Trump winning. And
(28:31):
so that's what's happening in each of these counties. And
and and if you look at the Texas versus Pennsylvania lawsuit,
Pennsylvania in its response from the state legislatures, they actually
admit that there are enough suspect ballots there, and they
admit that the election was irredeemably compromised in that state.
(28:51):
What their leadership needed was a judicial order for them
to feel comfortable calling themselves back in a session. They
didn't want to take their constitutional duty themselves. They basically
wanted to have the cover of the judicial branch, which
I think is cowardly, but that's that's what they wanted.
If you actually go back and read what the Pennsylvania
legislature said in that case, it was admitting that so
(29:15):
this is already two states, then we have Arizona, we
have Wisconsin, that just the mail in ballots alone were sufficient,
those questionable ballots that would have turned the election for Trump.
So absolutely mean this is not one, you know, smoking
gun in each state. This is death by a thousand
cuts and by thousands and thousands of ballots. And so
(29:38):
absolutely there is enough evidence and there is enough proof,
and if people actually want to get to the bottom
of this and look at the numbers for themselves, they
absolutely can, and I would I would tell them as well.
Peter Navarro put out a great report um towards the end,
of course, you know he's part of the Trump administration, uh,
the trade advisor for in It was mid December that
(30:01):
went through state by state and showed the significant irregularities
and the problems in each state. And that's a whole pdf.
It's searchable, it's out there. So for people who are
saying I haven't seen enough evidence, I haven't heard this enough,
then either you're listening to the wrong media or there's
a lot of people that are just seeing the talking
points and they're not taking the time to actually look
(30:24):
at what we have presented to the public. Okay, No,
I appreciate your analysis and giving your personal experience with
the facts and what you see, and I can I
can appreciate you letting my listeners know where you staying
with that. So I appreciate that. I want to switch
gears a little bit from from the court cases because
(30:45):
now we're in a new time where we have to
take back the House of Representatives as Republicans. And I
know you left the party, but I'm I'm sure that
you want to see conservatives in office and dominate if
they're a true conservative. What do you see the GOP
faring for the House and Senate races that are coming up.
(31:07):
Its opportunity to take back the House from Democrats, and
hopefully we will get a truly conservative, not just Republican majority.
And of course, you know, parties in the context of
majorities do matter. And and I hope, even though I'm
no longer a member of the party, I do hope
that Republicans in you know, the Capital are sinse do
(31:30):
take over the majority in two because that's the best opportunity,
hopefully to not only stop the Biden and I put
that in air quotes. We don't know he's not running
the country, but the Biden administration agenda, you know, this
extreme nationalism, the Green New Deal, the Infrastructure Plan, you know,
pro choice legislation, all of this voting stuff like hr
(31:52):
m S one and H four you know, these things
that are trying to federalize our election processes for early
unconstitutional is trying to give bureaucrast in Washington more power
than these lawless bureaucrasts on the state level. So there
are so many reasons we absolutely need to take back
the majority. And I hope and I'm really encouraged to
(32:14):
see that um kind of outside of the traditional Republican
Party candidates are stepping up and they're running in a
lot of these races, Like we have Larry Elder and
Colonel Alan West, you know who stepped up to run
in races. You know, we have even a challenger, Doug Huffins,
who is who's challenging Governor Greg Abbott just in the primary.
(32:36):
That's a great thing for conservatism. So I think there's
a lot of hope because I think the American people
have been awakened to the problems of the swamp that
is creeped out even into state races. And what we
can do, regardless of party affiliation, is to support the
good candidates that are truly advocating for conservative principles and
then once they get an office, continue to hold them accountable.
(32:59):
But also can to you to encourage them to do
the job of proper governing under this principle of preserving
and protecting our rights. That's a great question I've been asked,
and I feel at this point that I'm doing a
lot of good where God has put me in right now,
(33:21):
in the position that I'm at. I will never say never,
because who would have ever thought I'm doing I'm doing that?
But I will just say that I take my life
one day at a time. I do what God has
for me the next day, and if he calls me
to run for office, I will. But right now, at
this point, I am so focused on the election integrity
battle that that to me, as an attorney, I can serve.
(33:44):
I feel like I can serve my country the best
in that arena. But I don't know. Maybe next time
we're on, I'll have an announcement for you, I will say,
before we move on, let's take a quick break round
the corner. President Trump has told a number of people,
(34:05):
and he's seemingly gestured to it and in media appearances,
that he's going to be running again for president. So
with that being the case, I mean clearly formidable Republican
Canada and formidable and in any sense and Democrats whatever.
But you got Rhonda Santez, who seemingly has been implementing
a Trump agenda in Florida in numerous ways. I mean,
(34:30):
he's been running the state amazingly and actually took on
a lot of efforts that President Trump took on and
wasn't able to get accomplished. You talk about what he's
done with Rhonda Santis, that is with big tech um,
how he handled COVID, how he handled a number of
different things, and and made sure that he has one
of the most proper, prosperous and well runned states in
the country. There's a lot of conservatives that are excited
(34:52):
about him potentially running for president if that happens, How
do you think this shakes out full problem have? Unlike
twenty sixteen, where you know, there we had a stage
full of people like you know, Jeb Bush and John
Kasik and people who you know, nobody was excited about, right,
And nobody at that point, at least me and a
lot of my fellow conservatives didn't know Donald Trump. We
(35:15):
you know, I was excited about Ted Cruz, but not
nearly as much as people are excited about President Trump now.
And Ron Descantis. So I'm excited that we have more
than just one person who is leading this whole movement.
And I think President Trump one of the greatest thing
that he has done is encouraged other people like the
(35:37):
wrong destantus Is of of the world and and others
to step up and and step out so boldly to
proclaim the truth of the Gospel of Christ. And Rhon
Descantis did that brilliantly. By the way, at UM the
Faith and Freedom Conference with Rael Freed, I was there.
I heard him speak, I had spoken a day earlier,
(35:58):
and it was amazing, and I loved it, and I
I love run to Stantis. He's done a wonderful job
for Florida. So I think this is a great problem
to have that we have options, and we have more
people who are willing to join President Trump in this fight.
And so I know a lot of people who would
love to see him as president. I know a lot
of people that will continue to support Donald Trump. And
(36:18):
whether Trump decides to run, or whether he decides to
endorse the Stantist or someone else in more of a
chancellor kingmaker role, you know, we'll see. But I think
for the Republican group or I should say conservatives now,
but for also the Republican Party, this is a great
problem to have. I'm excited. So no, no, no, uh.
(36:40):
Analysis on who might win that fight well, I you know,
it's so hard to say right now because it all
depends on how things shake out. I mean, you know,
the Stantis may decide he's not going to run in
if he wants to finish out his terms as governor.
I mean, there are just so many variables. But you know,
if it was head to head, I still think that
(37:02):
President Trump has so much love and popularity and there's
so many people who want to see him back in office.
I still think he has the edge currently on the Santis.
But you know, you never know, and you never know
who else might join the race or you know what
might happen to change the equation. But if it were
a head to head right now and people were declaring today,
(37:23):
I would still give the edge to Donald Trump. Okay.
And it's interesting because people who have talked about this
in terms of a head to head Rhonda Santis and
President Trump have said that Rhonda Santis is Trump in
terms of policies without some of the personal uh baggage,
(37:44):
if you will, that Donald Trump may bring in in
terms of personality. So I think a lot of people
are saying it in the in the Republican Party, you
don't know. I think that's true. Um, I mean, everybody
you know is aware of the Trump mean tweets, right,
or that you know, the things that initially were there
were some you know, of the evangelical community or for
(38:07):
other reasons why people were initially hesitant to support Trump.
So I think that that's true that at least so far,
run To Santist doesn't have some of those personality sorts
of you know, whether you want to call them quirks
or drawbacks. I think that's true. But I also think
that President Trump has shown that he can surmount to that,
and people at this point, especially after the last six
(38:29):
months of Biden, really don't care about the main tweets.
They love the fact that Donald Trump was willing to
go in and be you know, a bull in the
China closet of Washington. And I think I've also heard
that there is some concern that you know, would run
To Santists come here and be willing to do the same.
I think he would. I think he's proven that in Florida. So,
(38:51):
you know, so I think that that's a true analysis,
but I don't think that that tells the whole story
of Donald Trump. And I think it's putting too much
emphasis on some of the drawbacks where we saw, I
mean those rallies that I attended with the President. There
is so much love and respect for that man all
across the country that I, you know, I just don't
think that mean tweets matter. So well, before I let
(39:15):
you go, I just want to switch gears here again.
Joe Biden is clearly in office. He's president, and his son,
who somehow has a new art career as a painter,
is selling these very expensive paintings and has recently said
that he will meet with people who are looking to
purchase him. What is your take on it? Wouldn't it
(39:36):
be great if all of us uh jianno could paint
by number and sell it for half a million dollars.
I mean, that'd be amazing. I think it's ridiculous. It's
a pretext. We all know the Biden crime family is
thoroughly corrupt. This is just yet another blatant, obvious pretext
to um, you know, have Hunter go and do his
(39:58):
shady business. And and I think it's ridiculous. I think
that how the media handled Hunter's laptop. How in the
in the raid of Rudy Giuliani by the FBI, which
was absolutely absurd, he tried to hand them the hard
drives and said, this is evidence. You were told in
the warrant that you had to take all electronic evidence.
(40:18):
Here you go. They refused to take it. That should
tell us something about the two tier justice system in America. Wow,
I didn't know that. Wait a second, I didn't. I
hadn't heard this story. So you're saying that Rudy hit
at the laptop with him, Hunter Biden's laptop with him,
and he tried to give it to the FBI doing
a rate and they refused. Yes, And I don't know
(40:38):
if it was the actual physical laptop, but it was
the hard hard drive that contained the material that was
on Hunter's laptop, right, so it was in effect a
copy for the original um. And he tried to hand
that hard drive and say, this is the Cure's laptop.
You want to thank this. They refused, even though the
warrant specifically said that they were to seize all electronic
(41:02):
evidence his personal cell phone was taken. Everything else they
refused to take that. That should be a huge question
to the American people about how much are shady, swampy, disgusting,
dark actors in Washington are covering for Biden and the
crime family. I think it's ridiculous. Well, I hadn't heard that.
(41:25):
Thank you for letting me know. And unfortunately, I believe
every word. I believe. I can see that happening where
justice is supposed to be. And I was a former prosecutor,
right and then I was a defense attorney, but prosecution.
I started volunteering at the Boulder County District Attorney's office
when I was seventeen. Um, I've loved law. I've been
(41:46):
in you know, way more trials, Um, you know, on
both sides than you know any of a lot of
these other lawyers in d C. And there is a
higher ethical obligation that specifically a rule for prosecutors for
the government, that they have a higher responsibility that their
only client is justice. They have to be unbiased, they
(42:06):
have to completely ignore politics. But what the American people
are so viscerally upset about is how we have such
a two tiered system of justice that justice now is
a political term, and I reject that completely. And this
is why, as President Trump has always said, we have
to drain the swamp, because if we are going to
have legitimate, meaningful liberty, well then we have to have
(42:30):
liberty and meaningful justice for all. And if we don't
have justice, then we are going to rapidly lose our liberty.
And it seems as though we truly are rapidly losing
our liberty. You know. I just want to thank you
for the conversation and certainly for joining me to talk
about this. A lot of people are interested in your
(42:53):
story and you know what's going on, and I think
some people that are Trump supporters probably we feel very
much the same as you do about the GOP and
so maybe looking to leave. So I'm hoping that the
GOP and those who are running it is very much
aware of how its members are feeling. And I agree
(43:16):
with you fully that if you feel that the Republican
Party is not engaging the tenets of the conservative movement,
you should be vocal about it absolutely, and I have
been many times before, so I I really appreciate your engagement,
certainly on that in your fastidiousness to what has happened
(43:36):
in this country since Joe Biden is one. So thank
you for bringing all that to the table on out
love with you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Giano.
And you know, as as Martin Luther said during the
Protestant Reformation, you know here I stand. I can do
no other and I would just encourage everyone stand on truth.
Don't worry about politics. Politics is meaningless compared to the
eternal and mutable truth of what our country founded on,
(44:00):
and that's God, our creator, the God of the Bible.
And if we stand on truth every day, you can
never ever go wrong and be continent and bold in that.
So thank you for your voice again and thanks for
having me on. One last question before you go. Is
there anything you're working on at the folks at home
should know about that? You have a book coming out?
Thank you. I have been so focused on the Election
(44:21):
Integrity Alliance and if you're interested in looking at that
or signing up for all of our our publications, all
of that go to American Greatness Fund dot com. Um
you'll see the Election Integrity Alliance there. And then also
I have a show at six pm Monday through Friday
on Real America's voice called Just the Truth. We talked
about just the truth of everything. And then I will
(44:44):
actually be a relaunching my podcast in the coming weeks
under a little bit different format, different platform. Looking forward
to announcing that soon. So a lot of projects in
the works, and then, of course you can always follow
me on social media Twitter, Facebook, all of that at
Jenna Ellis e s Q for Esquire because I love
being a lawyer. Thanks, Okay, thank you so much, and
(45:08):
we'll be uh certainly watching um for what you got. Thanks. Yeah,
I want to thank Jenna Ellis for a great interview.
If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review
and rate us with five stars on the Apple Podcast.
(45:30):
If you have any questions for me, please email me
at out loud at ginger Street sixty dot com and
I'll try to answer them in our future episodes. And
please sign up for my monthly Lose letter at ginger
Street sixty dot com slash all loud. You can also
find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Caldwell.
And if you're interested in learning more about my story,
please pick up a copy of my bestselling book title
(45:50):
Taken for Granted. How conservatism can win back the Americans.
Deliberalism failed. Special thanks to our producer John Cassio, researcher
and Clinging, and and executive producers Debbie Myers and speaker
New Gingwige, all part of the Ginglish Street sixty network
Up next, Ow Wow with Gianno called part of the gang.
WI one prominent conservative is drawn a line in the sand,
she said, quote, I am no longer a Republican. She
went on to say, until the party decides that it
wants to be conservative again. Today this ex Republican I
discussed why she left the party and debate the future
(00:22):
of the GOP. This is outlined with Gianno called ye.
Welcome back to Allow with Gianno called blow. I'm Gianno
called blow, and I've got a great show for you
guys this week. My guests is Jenna Ellis, a lawyer
(00:44):
who served as legal advisor for President Trump and his
re election campaign, and she was also named to his
legal team that challenged the election results. Currently, Ellis is
a contributor for Newsmax and holds her own show Just
the Truth on Real America's Voice. She also launched the
Election Integrity Alliance. Today I asked Alice about her decision
(01:07):
to leave the GOP in the future of the party
and we look forward too, Let's go. So we've been
trying to do this for a while, and what I
mean by this is have someone who's been a superstar
and the Republican Party and the conservative movement. You may
know her as a conservative that voices issues on a
(01:27):
lot of things, but she's someone who really got her
big star when she defended President Trump with Rudy Giuliani
among some election fraud cases. So I want to welcome
to Outlow with Gianno Caldwell, Jenna Ellis. Pleasure to be
on with you. Thank you so much, Gianno. It's great.
And I know we've been talking about Dennis for a
while and I really appreciate your very strong conservative voice
(01:50):
as well. So thank you for everything that you do. No,
I really appreciate that. Now. I want to jump right
into it because you want You're somebody that a lot
of folks respect. A lot of Republicans have hit there
on you. They appreciate what you did for President Donald
Trump um defending him, and recently you caused a stir
earlier this month when you announced that you you're officially
(02:13):
leaving the Republican Party. You called on all top Republican
officials to rason and accuse the GOP of no longer
being conservative. Could you elaborate on why you left the
party and why you're upset with his leadership. Yeah, it's
a great question. And you know, I have always been
someone who is a conservative based on my principles and
(02:34):
based on uh, the Judeo Christian ethic, that our country
was founded upon an understanding that that world best statement
in our Declaration of Independence that says that we hold
these truths to be self evident, that all men are
created equal, They're endowed by God, our creator, with certain
unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty in the pursuit
of happiness. Um, that's principled, because we can't have true
(02:58):
equality without under standing who our creator is and understanding
that all human beings have inherent dignity and worth. And Uh,
the founding of our nation and the reason I love
the brilliance of our constitution is that America was the
first nation in world history to actually be predicated and
our system of government predicated based on recognition of those
(03:21):
fundamental truths. And so conservatism as an idea is conserving
those truths and is recognizing that the sole responsibility of
government is to preserve and protect our individual rights. And
so I'm not just pro choice, I'm not just uh,
you know, a Christian. I'm not just pro capitalism and
(03:42):
all of these different philosophies in different arenas um to
to me. And and the best understanding of our system
of government and the reality to which we're presented is
understanding that this is a comprehensive philosophy that's rooted in
truth and the identity of the One True God of
the Bible. And so I say all of that as
a predicate to say that I have um been conservative
(04:06):
for my life. I've been a member of the Republican
Party for all my life. Certainly I'm growing in the
grace and knowledge of the of my Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ, but I also am fundamentally always willing to
stand up and speak for the truth. And when I
first got a phone call from President Trump and UM,
he actually just called me out of the blue. He
(04:28):
had seen me on TV defending the Constitution, and he said,
you know, I have some questions for you. UM, I
want to talk about this. This is in the context
of the first impeachment, hoped, and I just laid out.
I gave him, you know, my honest opinion of the law.
We talked about the philosophy of the Constitution, and UM,
all of these things. He has such a great depth
of knowledge of of our history as Americans, and he
(04:51):
wants to protect that aspect of conservatism. It was one
of the greatest privileges of my life to work for
him defend him. And so this is more than just
me saying politically, I differ with how we can best
implement our system of government, or I differ a little
bit with the Republican Party's platform. This is all about truth.
(05:12):
And when you have the Republican Party that is going
so big tent and is saying having Ronn McDaniel, who's
the chairwoman, tweet and post UH four in support of
Pride Month, for example, and saying that human sexuality, apart
from understanding the biological measurable differences between men and women,
(05:35):
the truth of moral human sexuality, that is not a
Conservative principle and that's not the traditional Republican Party. But
then even further than that, I've always spoken up for
that truth. And um, then when the Republican Party, Jano
went so far as to lie to the American people
in the aftermath of the election and tell America in
(06:00):
when Rudy Giuliani and I and Bernie Kyrrick and others
were standing in the face of threats in the face
of other lawyers quitting and saying we have to get
to the truth of what happened in the Republican Party
was telling the American people that they supported us, but
their chief council, Justin Reamer sent an email in early
(06:22):
November to other members of the GOP from his GEOP
official address saying what Rudy and Jenna are doing is
a joke. And he disclaimed the effort for the truth
privately multiple times, and the RNC fundraised over two hundred
(06:43):
and twenty million dollars from Americans saying that they were
fighting for election integrity when they weren't. And so that's
my problem is that they're lying. And Rona McDaniel knew
that I spoke to her directly the night that I
received that email from an inside RNC was a blower.
In November, she promised me and Rudy and the President
(07:04):
that she was going to fire Justin, that he would
be gone by morning. We thought she had lived up
to her word, and it's only been in recent weeks
that we've learned not only is that not correct, but
she's now going on national media and denying the entire story.
I have the email I have the text messages. This
is not about me and her. This is about a
(07:25):
battle for the truth and that the American people need
to know. The Republican Party now is so divorced from
genuine conservative principles and what it actually means to be
an American. I can't stand up now, Gianno and say
I am a member of that party. Otherwise I'm no
longer advocating for the truth or for the truth that
President Trump fought so hard for. Wow, you, I mean,
(07:48):
you gave us a lot to digest there. So just
a couple of things here. One is the issue with
r N c um and you say that Ronald McDonald
lied to you. She said that she was going to
fire just than she did not, and she's saying that
she didn't say that she was going to fire justin.
But also this this area of conservatism, the principles, the
(08:11):
the principles of the conservative movement not being followed by
today's Republican Party, which is also the same accusations that
they made, many folks made. And when Donald Trump took
over the Republican Party, how do you how do those
two do two things differ? Yeah, So that's a great question.
And you know, initially, a lot of people know, and
(08:33):
my Twitter haters love to point out, then initially I
wasn't a supporter of Donald Trump in the primaries of Um,
it's a well known fact that I supported Ted Cruz.
And obviously the world of politics is a closed universe
situation where you only have X number of candidates and
you have to choose the best from among them. UM.
(08:55):
I don't think there's ever been a candidate, nor ever
will be that I'll agree a hundred percent with their
their political philosophy or their political policy determinations. Um. There
were things, and even after I worked for President Trump
in his administration, that I personally disagreed with, and that's okay.
But what I came to recognize is that people who
(09:16):
were completely disavowing Donald Trump calling out his former lifestyle
that wasn't Christian, Well, that's true, and I have never
ever endorsed that. Of course, you know, any sort of
conduct that goes against the Bible is sinned by definition.
I'm not a perfect person. I repent of my sin daily, hopefully,
(09:36):
and um, Jesus's blood covers all. But what I came
to recognize is that everything that the left was impugning
Donald Trump for was actually when he was a registered Democrat.
So people change, and I personally after them. Getting to
know Donald Trump. I heard him speak in July. He
said so very clearly at the Western Conservative Summit. I
(10:00):
was then a professor at Colorado Christian University. I heard
him speak and he articulated the conservative philosophy of government,
of why we are supposed to have limited government, of
why America is founded on these principles, and I became
a supporter of his and I'm very grateful that I did,
(10:21):
because he has been the most pro life, conservative, god
fearing president of my lifetime. And he is willing to
stand up and go to the pro life marches, the
March for Life. He's he was willing to stand up
and say from Mount Rushmore last fourth of July, where
I was grateful to be in attendance with him, to
(10:41):
talk about the founding of America on on God's principles
of truth and and the biblical understanding of the philosophy
of government. And so while his past may not be perfect,
in his presence he absolutely is a conservative. Now I'm
not saying if he's a perfect person, neither a mine,
(11:02):
but what I'm saying is what I support about Donald Trump,
and I'm proud to support him, is that he is
genuinely conservative where the Republican Party used to be. But
instead of making that change from Democrat to Republican like
he did, liberal to conservatives, they're going backward and the
Republican Party is now no longer conservatives. So if that
(11:24):
be the case, the Republican Party is no longer conservative,
you're no longer a Republican, but you're still a conservative.
Where do you go from here? I mean, clearly, you
have a two party system. Unless Trump, which he hasn't
said that he would have the Party of Trump. What
would you do with your vote? Sure, there is a
(11:45):
beautiful thing in my home state of Colorado, where I
am still a registered and active voter. I've been involved
in Colorado politics a long time. There's a beautiful thing
called unaffiliated, and so that's my intention is to become unaffiliated.
I can still in the primaries, but even more importantly,
well there's probably nothing more important than my vote, but
(12:06):
just as importantly, I can still advocate for genuinely conservative candidates,
and if they're running under the Republican ticket, that's fine.
But what we need is genuine conservative to stand up
and disclaim where the Republican National Party is going and
say we are still going to run and I don't
(12:27):
I don't care, frankly, if they're running as a Republican
or an independent or a Tea party or whatever. If
they are going into government office to champion conservative, truth
based principles, I will support them, and I would encourage
my fellow Americans who are listening to this. We need
to disclaim false non truth and maybe if enough of
(12:48):
us stop supporting the rnc's idea of being big tentant,
we can either start a new party or we can
bring the Republican Party back to conservative tism so as
it is now. If the Republican Party had new leadership,
had someone who is willing to stand for truth, unlike
Ronald McDaniel, who is willing to not be a liar,
(13:10):
I would certainly be open to reregistering as a Republican.
But where I'm going from here is supporting individual candidates
that are willing to also champion the values that I
so deeply cherish, and family, faith and freedom issues are
so important. We can't just have this idea of a
two party system and say, well, I guess I have
(13:32):
to go along with the R and C because that's
the best we're going to get. I I reject that.
I think we can do better. Have you talked to
Donald Trump about any of this you leave in the
party or um, some of the things that you were
told by the chairwoman as to what they were going
to do with the lawsuits or any any of those things.
Have you spoken with him recently? That's also a great question.
(13:55):
And yes, I speak to him frequently. In fact, the
day that this all came out, I called him and
I said, I just want you to know that you know,
this is what happened. I briefly described the situation, and
I said, you know, I'm not willing to support Rona's lies.
And and he knew by the way, UM, he was
well informed by myself and Rudy Giuliani of everything that
(14:17):
had gone on with with Justin and UM. And it's
my understanding I wasn't present when he and Rona may
or may not have talked, but it's my understanding that
they did talk. And she made the same promise to him,
and she told us she would she would promise Trump
to fire justin. He was well aware of that whole
situation back in November, and so, UM, you know that
(14:38):
wasn't something that was a surprise to him. UM. And
I can I can just tell you that you know,
he he has always and I respect him for this.
He has always valued me telling him the truth. And
that's a promise that I made to him when I
first started working for him, because you may not always
you know, like or prefer it, UM, but I will
always tell you the truth, unlike so many other people
(15:00):
in Washington that operate out of politics, UM and and
their own self interest. I've told so many people around
him who don't like the fact that I'm telling him
the truth about um, you know, whether it's policy, whether
it's what he how he could act in his presidential capacity, constitutionally,
whatever it was. There were people that didn't like that
(15:21):
I told him the truth. And I always told them,
you know, I'm here to serve at the pleasure of
the president. And if you know, someday I don't get
to anymore and I leave DC, that's fine, I go
back to Colorado, that's fine. But as long as I'm here,
I'm going to have integrity. And so he was appreciative
of my call, and you know, we're certainly still in touch.
(15:42):
So do you think Donald Trump has lost faith in
the Republican Party and his leadership? As you ask? You know,
I can't speak for him on that, and I'm certainly
not going to get ahead of him on that, but
I do think and I know from him that he
is always very concerned about making sure that we as
(16:03):
as a group of conservatives, you know, juxtapose against the
Nancy Polos Shumers of the world, are doing the right thing.
So so you know, my my thought is he's probably
you know, watching this and and it's carefully considering what
he would and wouldn't say publicly. But I'm but I'm
sure that he's concerned, and I know that he is
always as well an advocate for the truth. We're talking
(16:25):
to Jenna Ellis, the prominent attorney who served as President
Trump's legal advisor. We've got much more with her right
after a break. So I want to shift now to
all the Trump losses concerned in the election. You clearly
would deeply involve you, help lead the strategy with Rudy Giuliani.
Where does any of this stand today? Are all the
(16:49):
cases done um, and people have been saying, oh, Trump
is gonna become back president again in August. I'm not
sure where that's coming from. But can you walk us
through what happened and what's going on and if there's
anything to be expected in the future. Yeah, that's a
great question. Well, first off, absolutely, we can still expect
that the fight for election integrity is continuing. And as
(17:13):
a colleague of mine just said to me yesterday, it's
actually election justice. We need to make sure that in
this country justice prevails. And what happened in just very
briefly is that there were so much evidence right away
of election officials, co workers, secretaries of state governors, everyone
(17:36):
from the executive branch from the top all the way
down to the administrators of the election that in at
least five states we're talking Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona,
that their elections were so lawless and so completely against
(17:59):
the laws of the state that the legislature set up
which constitutionally the state legislature directs the manner of elections,
it was so lawless in its administration that the election
result was irredeemably compromised. It was so thoroughly corrupted that
(18:20):
in the initial about six to eight weeks that we
had in the aftermath of November three, there was still
so much coming out, witnesses, documents, videos that you know,
we've since recovered, um, you know the one out of
Georgia that came very late showing you know, the ballots
that were under the table in suitcases. Now some of
(18:41):
the audits that are happening, the truth is continuing to
come out. But in the immediate aftermath of what was
so readily apparent, because we knew that the Democrats were
trying to harness COVID as a pretext to push in
universal vote by mail, there were ballots that scanned multiple times.
(19:01):
There were ballots, all of these mail in ballots. There's
some that were sent out with no record, there were
ones that were counted without poll watchers being present. And
you know, if you open an envelope of a mail
in ballot at that point it's compromised. You can't ever
put the ballot back in the envelope and guarantee the
chain of customing. All of these issues right, So, initially
(19:23):
the plan was twofold. One was a litigation track to
have a judicial order telling the state legislatures, yes, this
has been compromised, and to stop the certifications to Congress
of the electors. And then the state legislatures would have
the authority to determine which slate would go absent a
(19:46):
judicial order of that nature. The state legislatures have the
inherent constitutional authority was called planary power, meaning absolute. It's
only up to that what slate of electors they send.
And what a lot of people don't realize, Ciano, is
that even in American history prior to eighteen twenty four,
so for our initial presidential election, the people vote, the
(20:09):
popular vote didn't determine this slate of electors. It was
actually electors were sent by the state legislatures. Because the
idea was initially that we vote and we select our
local representation, and our national government is so small, the
national government is only supposed to represent the will of
the state legislatures. So all of this whole idea of
(20:30):
disenfranchisement and you know, and whatever is just historically ignorant.
And what the Constitution actually provides for is that the
state legislatures are the ultimate authority on which delegates to
the Electoral College actually are sent to Congress. And so
our argument in the immediate aftermath was telling and and
(20:51):
begging those state legislators to do their constitutional job because
we had so much evidence hours I mean eight and
ten our hearings in front of these legislatures that Rudy
and I attended, showing them there is so much here
that you cannot possibly allow a certification to go to
Congress and say and declare to Congress that you know
(21:15):
that this slate is the will of the people, and
it's certainly not the will of the legislatures who are
majority Republican in all of those states. Right, So they
refused to do that because there's spineless cowards, and also
because the RNC the national and this is the problem
with nationalizing politics. The RNC didn't get involved and asked
(21:36):
the state leadership to actually do the constitutionally appropriate thing. So,
now that the certifications that are based on absolutely false information,
we're sent to Congress. Of course, you January six, they
were counted in Congress and the Electoral College voted. So
now we have a president who is the president, but
(22:00):
he was installed in a manner that was antithetical to
the constitution. So what happens next? Do we just sit
back and say, oh, well, you know that short time frame. Whatever. No,
the argument changes because we're now post January six. But
the truth still matters, and that's why the audits are important. UM.
(22:22):
But that's also why litigation is still very important. UM.
And by the way, we did not we meaning President
Trump's to trains on behalf of him or the campaign,
did not file sixty plus lawsuits. When you see that,
that's a Democrat talking point. Um. Anybody can file a lawsuit.
That doesn't mean that you're representing a certain person or entity.
(22:42):
The campaign itself we filed less than a dozen lawsuits. Um.
They were strategic and they were um in those those
five states. And the unfortunate thing about the judicial track
was we were told, well, you don't have standing, which
is the legal concept. You can't even put your piece
on the game board to start playing the game and
(23:03):
to start litigating to get to the merits. They just
didn't even want to hear it. And so then the
Texas versus Pennsylvania case where Kim Paxton, who's one of
my favorite people, he's um been an advocate for truth
ordinately in the judicial arena. Uh he and then ultimately
seventeen other states filed the Texas versus Pennsylvania lawsuit because
(23:27):
under the Constitution Article three, which defines the judiciary, if
you have a case and the controversy, which clearly there's
a controversy here we all know it between states a
state susan other states, then it has to go on
the trial level to the Supreme Court, because think about it,
what other venue would be fair. So when they filed that,
(23:48):
the Supreme Court actually had no choice but to accept
that case. Now they didn't, and that was constitutionally impermissible.
But that was ultimately the goal of the legislative track
was to get that or some case to the Supreme Court.
Similarly as the Supreme Court did take up the book
(24:08):
should be Gore case and they made a ruling, and
that is is what the judiciary is supposed to do.
So all of those things now are we're post January six.
But now what the state legislatures absolutely can do is
to still look at their irredeemably compromised elections. They can
put back election state parks, they can have signature matching,
(24:30):
not have vote by mail. They can the state legislature
should stop delegating their authority to these secretaries of states
that are Democrat operatives and reclaim their ability to make
sure that the correct slate of delegates in every future
election goes to the Electoral College. There's a lot of
things they can do. UM. I'm a chairperson of the
(24:51):
Election Integrity Alliance. We and our allies of our sixty
different organizations are working on this um and then even
more certaintly, we are also still continuing to advocate for
the truth of because as this comes out, and as
more and more evidence shows that the States did the
(25:13):
improper thing, these are false certifications. We are going to
as the country, have to have a reckoning on this.
And there are people who advocate a lot of other theories. Um,
they can speak for themselves on those. I will always
advocate for constitutionally viable remedies. And one of those remedies,
of course, is to get to the truth and having
(25:36):
and I mean, we are in the midst of a
constitutional crisis and we are going to have to have
a reckoning. And the constitution provides for several methods of
a president leaving office. Resignation is one and removal through
impeachment is another. If our system of government is operating correctly,
(25:58):
we would have impeachment of Joe by the Kamala Harris
on the basis of election fraud or similarly as what
happened to to President Nixon. There would be so much
American demand of we the people that we don't have
a usurper in office and demand for his and Kamala
Harris's resignation, and then our country and and Congress, which
(26:21):
has the authority in the Article two, could then deal
with how we then installing next president. There's a line
of Succession Act, and there are some other arguments, but
that's where we need to go with it. Okay, So
you think that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris needs to
be impeached because of election fraud, and you you mentioned
(26:43):
the video of where they pulled out the suitcase with
the ballots, so we know that that happened. We know
that there was election fraud and this this election has
been proven, so we get that. But to the degree
that it would overturn the election in this entirety, I've
not seen any evidence of that. I know you guys
had the the statements from the pole watchers and people
(27:05):
who saw different things, and I'm sure that there's folks
out there who had their hand at it and try
to ensure that Joe Biden would win. We get that,
I understand that, But the Supreme Court didn't take it.
They didn't take the case, and it seems as though
there wasn't this insurmountable evidence that was presented that that
told the story at least with a media narrative outside
(27:25):
of what you mentioned, which is the state's delegated or
rather their general symbolis delegated the authority to secretaries of states.
You look at Georgia where there was an illegal deal
made with Stacy Abrahams and some other folks. So we've
seen all of that, but is there anything else that
could lead to that conclusion that the election was stolen
(27:48):
outside of those Yeah, and so, and this is why
it was so important that people understand. We never got
to have a hearing on the merits and so, while
I've been making this case to the media, sent you know,
back in November, we have never had the opportunity in
a judicial context to present evidence. But this is why
(28:08):
the oddests are so important. So you mentioned Georgia. What's
coming out of Fulton County right now? Justin Fulton County alone,
there are enough irregularities and suspect questionable ballots that by
law should be removed from the calculation for certification that
that alone would flip Georgia to President Trump winning. And
(28:31):
so that's what's happening in each of these counties. And
and and if you look at the Texas versus Pennsylvania lawsuit,
Pennsylvania in its response from the state legislatures, they actually
admit that there are enough suspect ballots there, and they
admit that the election was irredeemably compromised in that state.
(28:51):
What their leadership needed was a judicial order for them
to feel comfortable calling themselves back in a session. They
didn't want to take their constitutional duty themselves. They basically
wanted to have the cover of the judicial branch, which
I think is cowardly, but that's that's what they wanted.
If you actually go back and read what the Pennsylvania
legislature said in that case, it was admitting that so
(29:15):
this is already two states, then we have Arizona, we
have Wisconsin, that just the mail in ballots alone were sufficient,
those questionable ballots that would have turned the election for Trump.
So absolutely mean this is not one, you know, smoking
gun in each state. This is death by a thousand
cuts and by thousands and thousands of ballots. And so
(29:38):
absolutely there is enough evidence and there is enough proof,
and if people actually want to get to the bottom
of this and look at the numbers for themselves, they
absolutely can, and I would I would tell them as well.
Peter Navarro put out a great report um towards the end,
of course, you know he's part of the Trump administration, uh,
the trade advisor for in It was mid December that
(30:01):
went through state by state and showed the significant irregularities
and the problems in each state. And that's a whole pdf.
It's searchable, it's out there. So for people who are
saying I haven't seen enough evidence, I haven't heard this enough,
then either you're listening to the wrong media or there's
a lot of people that are just seeing the talking
points and they're not taking the time to actually look
(30:24):
at what we have presented to the public. Okay, No,
I appreciate your analysis and giving your personal experience with
the facts and what you see, and I can I
can appreciate you letting my listeners know where you staying
with that. So I appreciate that. I want to switch
gears a little bit from from the court cases because
(30:45):
now we're in a new time where we have to
take back the House of Representatives as Republicans. And I
know you left the party, but I'm I'm sure that
you want to see conservatives in office and dominate if
they're a true conservative. What do you see the GOP
faring for the House and Senate races that are coming up.
(31:07):
Its opportunity to take back the House from Democrats, and
hopefully we will get a truly conservative, not just Republican majority.
And of course, you know, parties in the context of
majorities do matter. And and I hope, even though I'm
no longer a member of the party, I do hope
that Republicans in you know, the Capital are sinse do
(31:30):
take over the majority in two because that's the best opportunity,
hopefully to not only stop the Biden and I put
that in air quotes. We don't know he's not running
the country, but the Biden administration agenda, you know, this
extreme nationalism, the Green New Deal, the Infrastructure Plan, you know,
pro choice legislation, all of this voting stuff like hr
(31:52):
m S one and H four you know, these things
that are trying to federalize our election processes for early
unconstitutional is trying to give bureaucrast in Washington more power
than these lawless bureaucrasts on the state level. So there
are so many reasons we absolutely need to take back
the majority. And I hope and I'm really encouraged to
(32:14):
see that um kind of outside of the traditional Republican
Party candidates are stepping up and they're running in a
lot of these races, Like we have Larry Elder and
Colonel Alan West, you know who stepped up to run
in races. You know, we have even a challenger, Doug Huffins,
who is who's challenging Governor Greg Abbott just in the primary.
(32:36):
That's a great thing for conservatism. So I think there's
a lot of hope because I think the American people
have been awakened to the problems of the swamp that
is creeped out even into state races. And what we
can do, regardless of party affiliation, is to support the
good candidates that are truly advocating for conservative principles and
then once they get an office, continue to hold them accountable.
(32:59):
But also can to you to encourage them to do
the job of proper governing under this principle of preserving
and protecting our rights. That's a great question I've been asked,
and I feel at this point that I'm doing a
lot of good where God has put me in right now,
(33:21):
in the position that I'm at. I will never say never,
because who would have ever thought I'm doing I'm doing that?
But I will just say that I take my life
one day at a time. I do what God has
for me the next day, and if he calls me
to run for office, I will. But right now, at
this point, I am so focused on the election integrity
battle that that to me, as an attorney, I can serve.
(33:44):
I feel like I can serve my country the best
in that arena. But I don't know. Maybe next time
we're on, I'll have an announcement for you, I will say,
before we move on, let's take a quick break round
the corner. President Trump has told a number of people,
(34:05):
and he's seemingly gestured to it and in media appearances,
that he's going to be running again for president. So
with that being the case, I mean clearly formidable Republican
Canada and formidable and in any sense and Democrats whatever.
But you got Rhonda Santez, who seemingly has been implementing
a Trump agenda in Florida in numerous ways. I mean,
(34:30):
he's been running the state amazingly and actually took on
a lot of efforts that President Trump took on and
wasn't able to get accomplished. You talk about what he's
done with Rhonda Santis, that is with big tech um,
how he handled COVID, how he handled a number of
different things, and and made sure that he has one
of the most proper, prosperous and well runned states in
the country. There's a lot of conservatives that are excited
(34:52):
about him potentially running for president if that happens, How
do you think this shakes out full problem have? Unlike
twenty sixteen, where you know, there we had a stage
full of people like you know, Jeb Bush and John
Kasik and people who you know, nobody was excited about, right,
And nobody at that point, at least me and a
lot of my fellow conservatives didn't know Donald Trump. We
(35:15):
you know, I was excited about Ted Cruz, but not
nearly as much as people are excited about President Trump now.
And Ron Descantis. So I'm excited that we have more
than just one person who is leading this whole movement.
And I think President Trump one of the greatest thing
that he has done is encouraged other people like the
(35:37):
wrong destantus Is of of the world and and others
to step up and and step out so boldly to
proclaim the truth of the Gospel of Christ. And Rhon
Descantis did that brilliantly. By the way, at UM the
Faith and Freedom Conference with Rael Freed, I was there.
I heard him speak, I had spoken a day earlier,
(35:58):
and it was amazing, and I loved it, and I
I love run to Stantis. He's done a wonderful job
for Florida. So I think this is a great problem
to have that we have options, and we have more
people who are willing to join President Trump in this fight.
And so I know a lot of people who would
love to see him as president. I know a lot
of people that will continue to support Donald Trump. And
(36:18):
whether Trump decides to run, or whether he decides to
endorse the Stantist or someone else in more of a
chancellor kingmaker role, you know, we'll see. But I think
for the Republican group or I should say conservatives now,
but for also the Republican Party, this is a great
problem to have. I'm excited. So no, no, no, uh.
(36:40):
Analysis on who might win that fight well, I you know,
it's so hard to say right now because it all
depends on how things shake out. I mean, you know,
the Stantis may decide he's not going to run in
if he wants to finish out his terms as governor.
I mean, there are just so many variables. But you know,
if it was head to head, I still think that
(37:02):
President Trump has so much love and popularity and there's
so many people who want to see him back in office.
I still think he has the edge currently on the Santis.
But you know, you never know, and you never know
who else might join the race or you know what
might happen to change the equation. But if it were
a head to head right now and people were declaring today,
(37:23):
I would still give the edge to Donald Trump. Okay.
And it's interesting because people who have talked about this
in terms of a head to head Rhonda Santis and
President Trump have said that Rhonda Santis is Trump in
terms of policies without some of the personal uh baggage,
(37:44):
if you will, that Donald Trump may bring in in
terms of personality. So I think a lot of people
are saying it in the in the Republican Party, you
don't know. I think that's true. Um, I mean, everybody
you know is aware of the Trump mean tweets, right,
or that you know, the things that initially were there
were some you know, of the evangelical community or for
(38:07):
other reasons why people were initially hesitant to support Trump.
So I think that that's true that at least so far,
run To Santist doesn't have some of those personality sorts
of you know, whether you want to call them quirks
or drawbacks. I think that's true. But I also think
that President Trump has shown that he can surmount to that,
and people at this point, especially after the last six
(38:29):
months of Biden, really don't care about the main tweets.
They love the fact that Donald Trump was willing to
go in and be you know, a bull in the
China closet of Washington. And I think I've also heard
that there is some concern that you know, would run
To Santists come here and be willing to do the same.
I think he would. I think he's proven that in Florida. So,
(38:51):
you know, so I think that that's a true analysis,
but I don't think that that tells the whole story
of Donald Trump. And I think it's putting too much
emphasis on some of the drawbacks where we saw, I
mean those rallies that I attended with the President. There
is so much love and respect for that man all
across the country that I, you know, I just don't
think that mean tweets matter. So well, before I let
(39:15):
you go, I just want to switch gears here again.
Joe Biden is clearly in office. He's president, and his son,
who somehow has a new art career as a painter,
is selling these very expensive paintings and has recently said
that he will meet with people who are looking to
purchase him. What is your take on it? Wouldn't it
(39:36):
be great if all of us uh jianno could paint
by number and sell it for half a million dollars.
I mean, that'd be amazing. I think it's ridiculous. It's
a pretext. We all know the Biden crime family is
thoroughly corrupt. This is just yet another blatant, obvious pretext
to um, you know, have Hunter go and do his
(39:58):
shady business. And and I think it's ridiculous. I think
that how the media handled Hunter's laptop. How in the
in the raid of Rudy Giuliani by the FBI, which
was absolutely absurd, he tried to hand them the hard
drives and said, this is evidence. You were told in
the warrant that you had to take all electronic evidence.
(40:18):
Here you go. They refused to take it. That should
tell us something about the two tier justice system in America. Wow,
I didn't know that. Wait a second, I didn't. I
hadn't heard this story. So you're saying that Rudy hit
at the laptop with him, Hunter Biden's laptop with him,
and he tried to give it to the FBI doing
a rate and they refused. Yes, And I don't know
(40:38):
if it was the actual physical laptop, but it was
the hard hard drive that contained the material that was
on Hunter's laptop, right, so it was in effect a
copy for the original um. And he tried to hand
that hard drive and say, this is the Cure's laptop.
You want to thank this. They refused, even though the
warrant specifically said that they were to seize all electronic
(41:02):
evidence his personal cell phone was taken. Everything else they
refused to take that. That should be a huge question
to the American people about how much are shady, swampy, disgusting,
dark actors in Washington are covering for Biden and the
crime family. I think it's ridiculous. Well, I hadn't heard that.
(41:25):
Thank you for letting me know. And unfortunately, I believe
every word. I believe. I can see that happening where
justice is supposed to be. And I was a former prosecutor,
right and then I was a defense attorney, but prosecution.
I started volunteering at the Boulder County District Attorney's office
when I was seventeen. Um, I've loved law. I've been
(41:46):
in you know, way more trials, Um, you know, on
both sides than you know any of a lot of
these other lawyers in d C. And there is a
higher ethical obligation that specifically a rule for prosecutors for
the government, that they have a higher responsibility that their
only client is justice. They have to be unbiased, they
(42:06):
have to completely ignore politics. But what the American people
are so viscerally upset about is how we have such
a two tiered system of justice that justice now is
a political term, and I reject that completely. And this
is why, as President Trump has always said, we have
to drain the swamp, because if we are going to
have legitimate, meaningful liberty, well then we have to have
(42:30):
liberty and meaningful justice for all. And if we don't
have justice, then we are going to rapidly lose our liberty.
And it seems as though we truly are rapidly losing
our liberty. You know. I just want to thank you
for the conversation and certainly for joining me to talk
about this. A lot of people are interested in your
(42:53):
story and you know what's going on, and I think
some people that are Trump supporters probably we feel very
much the same as you do about the GOP and
so maybe looking to leave. So I'm hoping that the
GOP and those who are running it is very much
aware of how its members are feeling. And I agree
(43:16):
with you fully that if you feel that the Republican
Party is not engaging the tenets of the conservative movement,
you should be vocal about it absolutely, and I have
been many times before, so I I really appreciate your engagement,
certainly on that in your fastidiousness to what has happened
(43:36):
in this country since Joe Biden is one. So thank
you for bringing all that to the table on out
love with you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Giano.
And you know, as as Martin Luther said during the
Protestant Reformation, you know here I stand. I can do
no other and I would just encourage everyone stand on truth.
Don't worry about politics. Politics is meaningless compared to the
eternal and mutable truth of what our country founded on,
(44:00):
and that's God, our creator, the God of the Bible.
And if we stand on truth every day, you can
never ever go wrong and be continent and bold in that.
So thank you for your voice again and thanks for
having me on. One last question before you go. Is
there anything you're working on at the folks at home
should know about that? You have a book coming out?
Thank you. I have been so focused on the Election
(44:21):
Integrity Alliance and if you're interested in looking at that
or signing up for all of our our publications, all
of that go to American Greatness Fund dot com. Um
you'll see the Election Integrity Alliance there. And then also
I have a show at six pm Monday through Friday
on Real America's voice called Just the Truth. We talked
about just the truth of everything. And then I will
(44:44):
actually be a relaunching my podcast in the coming weeks
under a little bit different format, different platform. Looking forward
to announcing that soon. So a lot of projects in
the works, and then, of course you can always follow
me on social media Twitter, Facebook, all of that at
Jenna Ellis e s Q for Esquire because I love
being a lawyer. Thanks, Okay, thank you so much, and
(45:08):
we'll be uh certainly watching um for what you got. Thanks. Yeah,
I want to thank Jenna Ellis for a great interview.
If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review
and rate us with five stars on the Apple Podcast.
(45:30):
If you have any questions for me, please email me
at out loud at ginger Street sixty dot com and
I'll try to answer them in our future episodes. And
please sign up for my monthly Lose letter at ginger
Street sixty dot com slash all loud. You can also
find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Caldwell.
And if you're interested in learning more about my story,
please pick up a copy of my bestselling book title
(45:50):
Taken for Granted. How conservatism can win back the Americans.
Deliberalism failed. Special thanks to our producer John Cassio, researcher
and Clinging, and and executive producers Debbie Myers and speaker
New Gingwige, all part of the Ginglish Street sixty network
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