November 5, 2025 • 55 mins
In Texas: teens are dying. Two teens go missing on a March night in 1983—and that’s only the beginning. A body count of kids and teens, missing and murdered, in a county that many say is run by corrupt cops - with those at the top covering for them. In the first episode of season five, Phelps heads to Weatherford, Texas, to begin one of the most sprawling investigations of his career.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is not real. This is not real, this is
not you know, not mine, Shelley, No, you know, and
it's just like a oh, I cannot even tell you
what it feels like. It is feel like something has
just gotten hooked to your heart and just ripped it apart,
crushed it. You know, it's just your being is just
(00:29):
like gone.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
In those years before it all began, they spoke mostly
of God country, cattle and cutting horses. Yep, murder has
a way of changing the town and its people and
seems to wash away a lifetime of pleasant memories.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That it's still that, you know. Then you're in the
shock and you but I still didn't want anybody telling me.
I didn't want to hear anything. It was horrible. It
was horrible.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Over four decades have passed, yet the magnitude and pain
of losing a child to murder feels as raw and
real as it did on that morning when she first
heard those unimaginable words no parent should ever have to hear.
Time is no healer whoever said that never lost a
(01:36):
damn child to the hands of a killer. Making matters
even worse is when you and so many others feel
you know, who was responsible, but no one seems to
be doing anything about it. What's more, law enforcement stops
answering your calls, creating a force field of silence around
anyone connected to the case. Because justice in the small
(02:01):
Texas town where your life changed forever is unlike justice
most everywhere else.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So everybody that you taught to will say, you know
it was law enforcement everybody. So just the optics alone
looked bad, right, I mean, if you know, you need
to be careful.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And if what I've found is any indication, the good
Old Boys Club, a seemingly distant memory of the past,
appears to be alive and thriving and even more powerful
than ever, forty plus years after the fact.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
My name is Debbie Billingsley. I lived in fort Worth, Texas.
I was born and raised in Weatherford. We moved to
fort Worth about, oh, I don't know, twenty four years ago,
maybe just because I wanted to get away from everything
that was over there in Weatherford. There was just so
(03:07):
much going on that I really became afraid to stay
there when Shelley and Vincent were killed that night. From
that day forward, I had so many people knocking on
my door telling me they were the police, they were this,
they were that, and I found out that four of
(03:28):
them were not police, and so I became very afraid.
I didn't know who to trust at that point.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
My name is em William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist
and the New York Times bestselling author of dozens of
true crime books. This is season five of Paper Ghosts,
the Texas Team Murders. Driving from Fort Worth into Weatherford
(04:11):
about a thirty minute trip, give or take, the one
thing you noticed immediately is the amount of construction going
on everywhere. New apartment complexes, restaurants, strip malls, condos, walk in,
medical facilities, road construction as far as the eye can see.
(04:33):
It's one of two fates that befalls a small town
in America. It either fades away to dust or becomes
one big strip mall full of the same cookie cutter,
fast casual drek that swallows any town that dares to survive.
And yet, looping off the exit ramp heading into downtown Weatherford,
(04:55):
you get this nostalgic feeling that time has stood still,
stuck somewhere around the mid to early eighties. As I
made my way down Main Street, the strip they used
to call it heading to me to contact in a
forty two year old double murder. I get this strong
(05:16):
sense of how life was here back in the day
when these strange and grisly events took place, walking around
talking to people visiting the crime scene and other key locations.
The emotional ripple effect of pain associated with two teens
(05:37):
out on their first card date brutally murdered for seemingly
no reason at one of the more popular locations in
town is still as sensitive as it was on that
first morning after their bodies were discovered. I had been
warned be careful. People asking questions about these cases in
(05:59):
the past have died in accidents and supposedly by suicide,
and there are certain figures in town who will protect
the secrets at all costs. Even now, all this time, Leader.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
It takes me back to a long, long time ago.
My dad was an alcoholic and for years, but praise God,
he quit drinking it and was sober thirty years before
he passed away. But our town was a small little town.
Anybody that had authority ran the town, and our sheriff
had his hand in everything that went on. We had
(06:38):
a trades day ground where people used to go and
set up and sell their wares, and there was some
empty houses. He so liquor out of prostitution. There was
gambling going on down there. And the reason I know
that for a fact is years and years later, my
(06:58):
dad told me when he drank. Our town was a
dry county. You had to drive to Fort Worth to
get liquor, any kind of liquor. And so my dad
told me, mister had these places and anybody could go
buy it, you just had to have the money. He'd
go buy the liquor and then sell it for twice
(07:18):
to what it was worth, just because our county was dry.
And he's the sheriff, you know. So we learned real
young in life that just because they were law enforcement
didn't mean they were good people. And he controlled everything
that went on, drugs, alcohol, transportation of trafficking of people,
(07:44):
all of that. He was involved in all of it,
and nobody ever did anything because they were too afraid to.
He made it very clear you either did what he
said or you paid that price. So when all of
this happened and with us, I just became very afraid
to be there. And right now we've lived in Fort
(08:08):
Worth twenty something years. But My kids still live in Weatherford,
and my great grandsons still live both them, and I
don't like that. I only go to Weatherford to see them,
and then I come home. I don't stay. I just
don't trust the people. Even after all of these years,
I still don't trust them.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Debbie Billingsley is much older now, with kids and grandchildren.
She was one of the last people to see the
kids on the night they left the house and never returned.
You will hear more from Debbie as we move forward,
but her sentiment sets the tone. Weatherford, Texas is unlike
(08:50):
most towns, where justice runs its course and the good
guys generally win, the townspeople satisfied in the streets returning
to safety. In contrast, all I have heard from one
person after the next is that you would better watch
your back out here, be it nineteen eighty three or
(09:11):
twenty twenty five, and that the law has its own
way of settling scores, keeping tabs, and intimidating those who
speak out so that they never speak again.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I know then something was wrong, something's wrong. So I
just got down in the car, locked the doors, and
I didn't want to get out because I didn't want
to hear. You know, I don't, no, no, no, everything's fine.
So finally I do get out, and you know, here's
these people in my house and the detectives and and
(09:54):
it was like, huh uh, no, you don't go tell
me nothing. You're not going to tell me nothing. So
I went to her room and I got on her
bed and just started calling everybody I had. My best
girlfriend was there, and now I just kept telling her,
(10:15):
and she said, Johnny, okay, let's stop calling. I said, no,
I want him to know it's okay, she can come home.
He's okay, she's not in trouble, she can come home.
So I went through that for about two days. I
didn't want to hear don't tell me nothing, But I
(10:37):
don't want to hear nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
When you lose a child, your world stops. A choking
feeling consumes you, as if you will never breathe again.
It becomes a continuous state of agonizing emotional bondage, which
you know will never let go. You can't function properly,
think straight, do simple things. No, nothing will ever be
(11:08):
the same again. For Janetic Coliflower Smith, forty two years
have passed since her fourteen year old daughter walked out
the door for the last time. She can't sleep anymore,
and the fact that her daughter's killer or killers are
still walking around town is a haunting reality, almost too
(11:29):
difficult to contend with. It's not easy to talk about.
In fact, it's almost impossible. Hearing about it is crushing.
And yet Janetta, just like the families of so many victims,
understands that if you don't talk about it, that pain,
(11:49):
it will suffocate you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
But you know, at that moment, it's you can't even
think of stuff. You just and for days from us,
and then forty years down the road last year I
think it was last year. Then I'm told all this
different that and I hate to say it's hard, hard
heart to say. But then the weather for detectives tell
(12:15):
me no, no, they were not they were shot.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
You know it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
It's hard, It just you know, it just comes back
and gives you the in my head, the pictures of
what it was like.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Janetta explains that after decades of not hearing anything from
law enforcement, in twenty twenty one, there they were again,
knocking on her door, asking questions and sharing details about
the case she had never heard before.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And they resided their head. It's what I'm taught and
uh as we went on then h then one of
them told him said they didn't. I said, oh my god,
she was scared. I know, I know she was, and
(13:19):
I did know she was terrified, and I do know
it's me. She's thinking about, you know, where's my mama?
And uhh.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And this is.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Oh a real.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I met one of the victim's mothers where she now
lives in a gated community of Catholics, even though she
herself isn't. It was a windy, scorchingly hot day in February,
and what was immediately apparent to me was that shadow
of pain on her face, knowing she was going to
(14:22):
be rehashing the worst moment of her life.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
My name is jon Eda Smith, but I was Cauliflower
for years, and that's the name that my daughter goes by,
Shelley Cauliflower.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like many who live in this Bucolic rural section of
central Texas, out on the outskirts of no familiar place,
Janetta grew up in the general region and has remained
here her entire life.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I grew up in a littletown, Meridi in Texas. I
mean there was no lights, no nothing. When we're talking
streets roll up. And I had a great young life.
My dad was a Baptist preacher, and yes, I was
raised as a preacher's daughter, but I was not the
(15:18):
preacher's daughter. I mean I didn't get a chance to
be that preacher's daughter because my dad was so strict,
so strict. I didn't get that part.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
When you say strict, what do you mean.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I really wasn't allowed to do anything. You know, he
didn't want me to play sports because like basketball, I
was never allowed to wear shorts, you know, or pants
or anything like that. He was a wonderful man. His
idea was what would people think? He just you know,
he felt like I needed to be a preacher's daughter.
(15:55):
You know, I needed to be good, you know. I mean,
I guess basically wholesome. But he was wonderful man.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
You can hear the anguish in Janetta's voice. Every word
seems on the brink of fracturing. Janetta Collie Flower Smith
has lived the past four decades of her life in
a prison, a self contained box of emotional hell. I've
rarely encountered with murder victims' families. The events of March
(16:24):
twenty fifth and twenty sixth, nineteen eighty three broke. This
woman caught her soul into so many different pieces. She
has no idea even to this day how to even
begin to put herself back together.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I got married very early.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Well how old were you?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Sixteen?
Speaker 5 (16:49):
So you were sixteen? And what was your husband's name?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
His name? His name was cauch.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Okay, so that's where the couch name comes from.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
But I want to make clear, hey never had anything
to do with her.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Nothing, And tell me about that. So what happens?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I mean, so you meet him, you're sixteen, you get married,
and you have a child right away, So you're what
seventeen eighteen and you have Shelley?
Speaker 5 (17:14):
And what's that like for you?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh? I adored her her, you know it was Oh,
I just adored her. So she was so sweet. She
was a baby that had these you know sometimes you
call them rubber band babies. That's when they had all
of these little rolls in their legs, in their arms
because they're so fat. And she was just amazing. She's
(17:37):
a good baby. It was okay.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
After moving round a bit, Janetta, her second husband, Ronnie Colliflower,
Shelley and a second child, Christy settled in Weatherford. Recently,
the town has been put on the map, so to speak,
as major portions of the hit television show Yellowstone were
filmed on a local ranch. It has a homey country
(18:02):
feel about it, steer and cattle horses, cowboy boots, jeans
and stetsons, and up in the moor, spread out flat areas,
those sprawling ranches with the iron gates their names forged
in steel. Generally speaking, downtown looks and feels like any
(18:22):
other contemporary Western settlement. Taco Bell and sonic Walmart, trendy
gourmet coffee shops, plenty of Southwestern architectural charm, dirt roads,
far more trucks than cars, fuel stations with snacks and
soda fountains on every corner. People tip their hats and
say howdy, They smile, ask how you are. Yet, anyone
(18:48):
living in town for more than a few years knows
that Weatherford holds deep, dark, murderous secrets buried just below
its magnetic western charm, a past marred in bizarre suicides,
strange supposedly accidental deaths, and several high profile brutal murders
(19:10):
of popular teenagers.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
It was at that time it was a small town.
It probably like any other town in the South, the Texas.
You know, there was no Internet or nothing like that,
so we kind of had our own little heritage here.
You know, there's a lot of cliques and stuff like
people like groups of people had kind of had their
own way of doing stuff and thinking and stuff like that,
(19:32):
and it's still to somewhat. It's still like that today.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
Back then, you.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Kind of had a bunch of different groups. You kind
of had like the what they call the ropers, which
was kind of your cowboys types, kind of had your rockers,
the jocks, so the jocks, the go rovers, the hippies,
the preppies, and all everything in between, and that was
kind of a combination of all of them.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
The drug culture was thriving then, perhaps as it still
is today. Hardcore stuff like coke, speed, and I kid
you not, stories of methamphetamine labs, cooks and dealers with
ties to law enforcement, straight out of the hit television
series Breaking Bad.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
So some of the that was kind of a weird
thing too, because some of the jocks were into the
drug thing, some of the preppies were into the drug thing.
I don't know much about the drug thing. I was
not I was. I wasn't a part of that. I
tried to stay far away from that as I could.
But you know, back then we had rock. We'd go
to rock concerts. You knew it was there, but you know,
(20:48):
if you're not involved with it, you're not going to
know much about it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Still, for Ronnie and Genetic Cauliflower, along with their children
Shelley and Christy, when they arrived in nineteen eighty, Weatherford
felt like the ideal place to settle down and enjoy
what we're supposed to be the best years of their lives.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Had a very, very very nice house and with some
achorage at a little bit of acreage. And of course
Ronnie's a cowboy. It's always been a cowboy he, you know,
and that was exciting to him, and it was exciting
to make us.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
The house was so nice, a gorgeous ranch with lots
of fenced in flat land out front, like an enormous
carpet leading down toward the road, horses, a gate down
at the end of the driveway to the Collieflowers. It
was paradise. What a place to raise a family. And
(21:46):
what did you think of Weatherford when you got there?
It was Okay, how did Shelley like it?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Oh, she loved school. She loved church, you know, she
loved it, happy, happy, happy.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
So you guys were a church going family, and yeah,
and she like going to church.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh, she loved church. Church was her best thing. And
at the funeral, you know, I don't remember a lot,
but somethings stand out to me, and like at the funeral,
I remember her pastor saying Shelley was one of the
most faithful members they had. I mean, her best friend
(22:26):
and her parents were real, very very church oriented, and
of course Shelley went with her every time.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
If I didn't understanding this case, it's complexities and how
for over four decades this town has so many questions
left unanswered. Began a few years back from me, the
administrator of a Facebook group, Justice for Vincent, and Shelley
reached out. Please please help us. She wrote to me,
(22:59):
feeling from stonewalled and patronized by a bureaucratic court system,
refusing her even the most basic case documents, police reports,
witness statements and so on. She pleaded for me to
take a look into the case. We had several conversations.
(23:21):
She introduced me to good honest people seeking justice. She
hoped that once I got a sense of the underlying
silence and as she claimed cover ups, I'd want to help,
because as far as she and the victims' families were concerned,
no one else would.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
My name is Lorie Kates and I'm from Weatherford, Texas.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Have you grown up in what Ford? Your whole life?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Pretty much? We moved from Arlington, Texas back in nineteen
eighty three. December of eighty three, I was nine years old,
and we you know, I grew up out here. My
mom was a real estate agent in Parker County and
(24:23):
my dad worked at General Motors in Arlington.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
At fifty A hairdresser by trade, Laurie is a quintessential
Texan with that noticeable Western accent and old fashioned appeal.
She wears a silver cross and earrings in the shape
of Texas. She's proud of her roots and who she is.
She carries a twenty five caliber pistol with a pink
(24:51):
pearl handle and doesn't mince words when it comes to
her opinions, especially when we get into Shelley. In Vincent's case,
she may come across suite and innocent, and yet for
the years I have known her now, Laurie is anything
but passive and soft spoken, a steel hand and a
(25:14):
velvet glove.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Because we need help, we need help, we need And
Shelley was fourteen, I mean, and Vincent was sixteen, and
these were kids, and we're just trying to get answers
to family. Is they've been denied any answers from weather
(25:37):
for PDA. They hate the chief, hangs up on the family.
They will not talk to the family.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Weatherford is the seat of Parker County. Today, there are
some one hundred and fifty thousand people, three times more
than there was in nineteen eighty three when all of
this began. Although data for that year doesn't exist, it's
safe to say Weatherford house between ten and fifteen thousand souls.
(26:06):
So it was very much small town Texas.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I grew up on the outskirts in a smaller little
town called Peaster, and we didn't even have a gas station,
so we had to go to Weatherford for everything. Grocery store,
you know, that type of thing, if we wanted to
go to movies. I mean, as far as I knew
as a kid it, you know, it was just growing
(26:32):
up in a normal country, you know, country town small town,
very family oriented. Our Friday nights consisted of cow tipping
in pastures, you know, after drinking a perhaps blue ribbon
or something. It has a courthouse, beautiful courthouse built in
the eighteen hundreds. The town were known for peaches. Actually,
(26:56):
they have a peach festival every year. They have farmers
market where everybody goes and gets their fresh troops and vegetables.
It's just a cute, nice, little, you know, little small
typical town.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
The idea that evil exists in what's known as the
peach capital of the state seems out of place for
the people who call Weatherford home. And yet the past
doesn't lie.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Weatherford is the cutting capital of the world. There's a
lot of ranches out here, big you know, cowboys everywhere,
wranglers and boots. That's what everybody wears, cowboy hats. It
wasn't uncommon to see police officers riding horses. There's a
shriff's posse which rides horses. You know, it's a country
(27:51):
western cowboy town.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I think there is a cliche or maybe judgment that
small town America, especially in the South and West, consists
of families sitting on porches at night in rocking chairs,
a piece of straw in the corner of their mouths
after a day of rustling upsteer and cutting horses in
the dry, blowing dirt. There's the conception that things are
(28:18):
run by the local sheriff, boots up on his desk,
bella hanging over his belt, buckle, deputy standing around just
waiting to do his bidding. Thank Hollywood for those images. Yet,
as I got to know Laurie Moore and she introduced
me to others involved in this case, and an investigator
(28:41):
you will meet later on in the podcast, it became
clear that the old cliche of the bully sheriff and
his cronies running around doing his business is no bastardized
version of reality, particularly when the body count begins to
grow end when you consider what happened up on ten
(29:04):
Top Road in Weatherford in March nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
The first time that I ever heard about corruption, the
good old boys club, so to speak, was back in
I was probably in sixth grade and my best friend Marlene,
her parents owned the skating rink. They had picked me
(29:32):
up and we were on the way of the skating
rink and my friend Marlene looked at me. We were
probably twelve years old, and she said, Hey, did you
hear about the meth lab that blew up an over house.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
The man Laurie mentioned was in law enforcement at the time,
a name I have heard now from most everyone I
have spoken to as being connected to the case in
some way.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
If he's not involved directly, he knows what happened, you know.
I think there was some information floating around about uh,
he was pulled over by the at that time. Instead
of getting the DWI, he gave him a ride home,
you know, And that kind of just that stuck out
in my head, like, Wow, you're thinking that did this,
(30:21):
or the rumor and yet that's been known out there
that you know, you're thinking they were part of it.
Thatn't really. Yeah, it kind of clicks a little funny,
you know.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
To get up the truth in any cold case, weading
through rumor, speculation and talk inside the local diners and
dive bars can be a cumbersome dance. You have to
weed out fact from fiction. What brought me here and
piqued my interest all those years ago is the sheer
(30:56):
number of young people whose lives were lost during in
the late seventies and mid eighties, when several serial killers
were active in this part of the country. When a
certain group of victims are basically the same age, hang
around the same circles, and disappear or are murdered within
the same general region, it's almost a given you go
(31:19):
straight to the serial killer theory. Yet I am not
so sure that would be productive in these cases.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
There was a lot of meth that was being run
through Parker County, and as long as you sold for
there was no problem. You got arrested by another officer,
you were let out, no problem. But if you stopped
(31:58):
and you tried to get clean, and you said no,
I'm not going to do it, then things would happen.
Kids would come up missing, to the point where the
justice of the peace at the time would make the call.
If you showed up at a scene where somebody had
passed away, he would make the call whether to send
(32:19):
the body for an autopsy or not. There was a
guy named Jimmy Joe Hayes nineteen eighty six. He was
found hanging by the Brass River with his feet and
his hands bound. So the local funeral hunt went because
declared it a suicide. Mister had showed up and when
(32:43):
he saw the suicide, he said, Oh my gosh, how
could the guy commit suicide with his hands tied and
his feet tied together.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
When you add hard drugs to the equation with truckloads
of money at stick, it changes the dynamic of murder
investigation considerably. And when you have a corner on the
ground seemingly working for law enforcement and not the truth,
those murders can be easily buried in the depths of silence.
(33:20):
Yet within a case where there is so much information
centered around forty two year old stories and so many
people are still scared of speaking out, where do you
even begin.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It was really bizarre for me when I started researching
this case to look back and think, oh my gosh,
my parents moved us out here for a better life.
Arlington was getting big, and then to come to find
out there was so much going on that we didn't
(33:56):
even know about. My mom was a real estate agent
and had never heard about Shelley and Vincent. People don't talk.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Since twenty twenty two, Laurie Kates has spent just about
every free moment she has invested in searching for answers
in two of the cold cases. I am here to
look into Michelle, Shelley Colliflower and Vincent t Jerina. She
makes phone calls, interviews witnesses, knocks on doors, digs into
(34:26):
county land and arrest records, chases leads down one rabbit
hole after the next. She has become a saving grace
for these families and also a bug in the ear
of those hoping to keep the secrets of the past buried.
I would probably not be involved without Laurie being persistent
(34:46):
and convincing me that there is so much going on
behind these murders. The deeper you get into the muck,
the thicker and greener the swamp water becomes.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
When we move here in nineteen eighty three, I mean,
this was a small town, and it just floored me
when I found when I come across this case and
then found out about all the other things along the way,
and has floored me. It's been shocking.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Sixteen kids in the high school that year nineteen eighty
three where either murdered, died in strange accidents, or committed suicide.
For a town where there are only about twelve hundred
students in the entire school, that's a hell of a lot. Today,
(35:38):
more than that, any other time, you cannot bypass or
overlook the large amount of online slothing and social media
involved in cold cases. I have mixed feelings about online
true crime sleuthing groups, armchair investigators, and social media influencers
trading exploitation for and viral views. Laurie is not one
(36:03):
of those people. She is someone who gets up every
morning and answers her calling in life to find answers
for the Teagerina and Collie Flower families. That is her purpose.
This case is in her blood. It happened in her time.
She feels a kinship and connection to these kids and
(36:24):
their families who trust her unconditionally. And so why did
you begin getting involved with this justice page?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
So? I was part of a group called the Fort
Worth Cold Case Club, and they were working on the
Carla Walker and murder, which has now been solved. They
had other little cold cases and we started researching and
that we hit a wall on this one case that
(36:54):
we were researching. And so I was just flipping around
on Facebook and show cousin had posted about Shelley Vincent's
murder and I thought, oh my gosh, I've never even
heard about this, and this was in my hometown. I
reached out and I got involved and I started sharing it,
(37:16):
and then COVID happened, and so you know, from twenty
nineteen till February twenty two, we didn't do a whole
lot because of COVID. That kind of shut down a lot.
But that's when I really started getting involved. Chief Lance
Arnold had private message me on Facebook. I've got all
(37:37):
the messages and wanted to set up a meeting. So
me and my friend went to this meeting. It was
a three hour meeting and that's when he told us
that there was evidence that was destroyed. There was a
city dup truck that backed up, There was supposedly a
rat infestation in a flood in the evidence room. And
(38:00):
they have no idea what was thrown away. They can't
find showing Vincent's clothes, They have no idea what happened
to them. The car, which was part of the crime
scene was given back to the family within a week
and then it sat out in the elements. It was
a three hour conversation with no dead space.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Why did he want to tell you all of this?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I think in the beginning he was he was being open,
and I think because it had got spread all over
because he told me that after I had made that post.
The reason he had reached out to me was because
within about an hour of that post, he had gotten
about ten phone calls and his wife was in the
(38:46):
kitchen cooking. He was in the living room, and she said, honey,
have you seen this? And he said, yep, I've gotten
you know, ten messages over this, and that's when he
reached out to me. So I don't know. You know,
that's a good question in a way, because at first
I thought that he was really wanting to help. So
(39:06):
he had told me, and I asked him too. He
said that they had five scenarios that they were working
on and they had marked it down to four. And
I asked him if we were in one of those
scenarios and he said yes. He said, well, that's really
not the direction we're heading, but if we need to,
(39:28):
we will. We'll go down that road because it's the
right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
The names I redacted you will here mentioned throughout the podcast,
and I apologize for the obstruction, but they have not
been charged with the crimes. So many different people are
accusing them of and if I am being straight up,
I am not yet convinced that scenario so many belief
(39:55):
is a viable answer for these murders.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
All right, So you.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Reach out to me, and your hope is to.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Get justice, to get some answers. We want to get
who did it? The family deserves it.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
And what made you think I could provide that?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
You know what's so crazy is I saw you on
twenty twenty and I thought, because honestly, we have talked
to other podcasters. We've talked to some other people, but
I can see you telling their story. I listened to
your podcast. I'm like, Okay, this guy is a bulldog.
(40:34):
He will go out for the answers and he doesn't
care if he steps on some toast. And that's who
we need. We need somebody that's not scared.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
March twenty fifth, nineteen eighty three, was a Friday. It
started out overcast. The rains would come later on that evening.
The day began like most others for Shelley Colliflower and
Vincent t Jerina. They had been dating for a few
months by then. Janetta Collie Flower Smith liked Vincent. He
(41:27):
was two years older than Shelley and Mexican American, which
will become important as racially motivated accusations later emerge. Some
people didn't like the idea of a white girl dating
a Mexican American boy, and in the eighties this type
of direct racism was rampant and hardly hidden in any way,
(41:51):
as was in this part of the country. The ku
Klux Klan Kkk. Janetta and Ronnie had plans. That weekend
was their wedding anniversary and they were heading out of town.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Ronnie and I were going to Brownwood for our anniversary.
That's where we bought our first house, and that's where
Shelley started school. So that morning we got up as normal.
It was on a Friday, on the twenty fifth of March,
and they rode the bus. But Shelley says, Mama, don't
(42:38):
you take to school today? And I said, okay, because
you know we were going to be gone, It's okay.
So here we go and there's a convenience store and
Shelley wanted to stop, so we went and we stopped
and they got well, Shelley did, Christy couldn't because she
wasn't old enough, you know, to take something to school
(42:58):
or whatever. And I won't ever forget ever. When she
walked out I thought how pretty she was, you know,
I mean, that's just in uh, you know. And she
had a coke in one hand and a sucker in
the other one, a lollipop yes, And I said, you know,
(43:19):
there's the big girl in her and there's the other one,
the child in her. But I thought she was so
beautiful that day. So we take Christie's school first, you know,
when it's the usual routine. We get a kiss and
you know, I love you, and you know, I love you, mama,
(43:42):
and that, and so then I take Shelley to school
and she just happy, go lucky, you know, she had
her books share then you had books. And she gets
out of the car and she she turned around and
looks at me, and it was a different kind of
(44:02):
I mean, and she goes, Mama, I love you, goodbye.
That was the last words I heard from when that
was the last time.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I saw her.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Ronnie didn't want Shelley dating Vincent, let alone going out
with him at night by themselves, but they had not
told Ronnie about the date. Vincent had borrowed his father's
Monte Carlo for the night so he and Shelley could
go on their first card day. As most everyone put
it later on, they had been talking about this night
(44:40):
for weeks. The Collie Flowers neighbor Debbie Billingsley, whom you
heard earlier in the episode, babysat for Janetta at times
after school because Janetta and Ronnie were heading out of town.
Janetta picked the girls up and dropped them off at
Debbie's where they would stay the weekend. Ronie got home
(45:00):
from work, he and Janetta would leave dev How did
you meet Shelley's family? When did you meet them?
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Well, we lived on a little corner house and the
elementary school was two blocks from our house, and I
met Shelley's mother. I volunteered to head off a group
for campfire girls. I had two daughters. They were both
young enough and wanted to do that, so we got
(45:31):
involved in campfire and john Etta brought her youngest daughter,
Christi and signed up for campfire, and sometimes Shelley would
come with her and we would all work together with
the kids. That's how I met her, and we just
became good friends. Ronnie Cauliflower was very well known in
(45:52):
Weatherford in his younger days. He played football and at
one point in time probably had the possibility to go
pro and he was in college and busted up his
knee and couldn't play anymore. So they moved back to
Weatherford settled in, and john Wait was a very pretty girl.
(46:13):
Of course, our family came from, like I said, my
dad was an alcoholic and our family came from the
wrong side of town. So Ronnie didn't like me at all,
and he kept telling john Etta this, she shouldn't have
anything to do with us, and she said, well, Debbie's
been a good friend to me and we just kind
of grew to know one another that a way. And
(46:34):
she told me that they were having a lot of
marital problems and their anniversary was coming up, and she
wanted to know if I could keep the kids for
the weekend, the girls, and I told her, I said, yeah,
it's no problem. And she said, well, i'll bring them
to you on Friday. And she said, Shelley has a
date with a young boy named Vincent, and it's okay
(46:56):
for her to go on this date. And I said,
so you're given me your permission for her to go,
and she said yes, but I want her home by midnight.
So that's how that all came about.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And had you ever met of Vincent?
Speaker 4 (47:12):
No, not until that night.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
No.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
I had heard a lot about him, that he was
really a nice young man. I don't think I ever
really heard anything bad. He was real into karate, very
motivated with his school work. I'd never really heard anything.
I knew of his family because of the karate, and
(47:36):
there was always stuff in the newspaper about him. And
of course back then there was no cell phones, you know,
it was just all public phones on the corners and this,
that and the other. But I had never really heard
anything bad about him at all. I didn't know anything.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I asked her if there was any talk about Vincent
being Latino Shelley being white.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Yes. Ronnie did not like that. He told Johnetta, I
do not want her dating that boy. It's not allowed.
But I didn't know that at the time. I found
that out later on, and I don't think, well, I
know when this all happened. Ronnie did not know that
(48:21):
john Etta had gave me permission for Shelley to go
on this date, and he held me accountable for it
happening because I allowed her to go.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I wondered if Debbie could comment about Shelley's demeanor that Friday.
Looking at this objectively, you have to consider that the
kids had some sort of plan beyond just driving around.
They're teenagers. They tell their parents one thing, do another.
That's normal and realistic. Tracing their movements every moment becomes vital.
(48:59):
Who they to, where they went, who they saw, who
saw them.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
It was a Friday afternoon when john Etta brought the
girls to my house. We talked standing out in the
front yard. She was getting ready to go home because
her and Ronnie were leaving that evening, and she said,
now they can go on the date. It's fine, don't
worry about it. Everything will be okay. And I said, okay,
so I've got your permission for her to go. She
said yes, So they left and the girls and I
(49:29):
all went in. Shelley was very excited about the date,
you know, just giddy like a fourteen year old girl
would be, telling me how nice Vincent was or respectful
he was, and that she had never had anybody pay
that kind of attention to her. They got to the
house about four thirty or five that afternoon and he
(49:50):
picked her up. I'm going to say between six and
six thirty. He came to the house, he come up
to the door, he came in introduced hisself. She look
hands with My husband was very nice, very polite. He said,
I'll have her home before midnight, he said, because I
have a karate tournament tomorrow. He said, so I have
(50:10):
to be home by eleven. He said, so I'll have
her home way before then. He said, I promise I'll
take care of her.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
One of the things Shelley and Vincent had in common
was their love of horses. Vincent was in the tenth grade,
Shelley a freshman. Vincent had talked about wanting to be
an Air Force pilot. Shelley mentioned cosmetology school and teaching.
Vincent's mother later recalled that Vincent read the Bible every day,
(50:39):
could recite verses, and she had hoped he'd going to
the priesthood. Everyone I have spoken to had nothing but
praise and love for both of these kids. They got
excellent grades, never caused problems, didn't get into trouble, and
did not hang around the kids taking drugs or They
(51:01):
had found each other, seemed content and even distanced themselves
from the clicks.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
They left, and it was a really stormy hunt, lots
of storms. My grandmother was at our house, and so
I loaded the three girls up and my grandmother took
her to my mom's and I took the younger girl's
roller skating, and I stayed at the skating rink with them,
(51:28):
and we got back home around ten or so. The
girls got their baths and made popcorn and went in
to watch a movie, and midnight rolled around. She wasn't home.
I was really getting scared and worried. Before she left,
I gave her four quarters and a piece of paper
(51:50):
with my name and phone number written on it, and
I told her, I said, if you get in a
situation that you're uncomfortable, all you have to do is
call me and I'll come in get you. There'll be
no questions asked. And when they found her, the quarters
were still there, but the piece of paper with my
name and number was gone, So I had no idea
(52:11):
who had that.
Speaker 5 (52:12):
As midnight rolls around, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (52:16):
I'm pacing the floors because it's really storming out. My
husband and I are getting really antsy because she's not home.
Because Vincent said he had to be home by eleven
and that he would have her home before then. My
husband said, Hey, I'm just going to get in the
car and I'm gonna go drive around town and see
(52:38):
if I can see anything. And he left and came back,
and he said, I didn't find them. I didn't see
their car anywhere. He stayed there for a while. One
o'clock rolls, around two o'clock, he goes out again, looking again.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
As the night turns into the early morning hours of
March twenty sixth, fear turns to dread. There is no
way Vincent would keep Shelley out all night long and
not call or come back and explain why they were
so late. He was an extremely responsible, dependable boy. Also,
(53:15):
Vincent was a disciplined student of karate and had a
tournament the next day, so he had to get up early.
Debbie knew in her gut something was very wrong because
Janetta and Ronnie were out of town. The first thing
she did was called Vincent Tejerina Senior, Vincent's father, and
(53:36):
explain what was happening. Vincent Senior immediately set out in
the second family vehicle to search for the kids. After that,
Debi tracked down Ronnie and Janetta and told them what
was happening. That Shelley was missing, and.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
The next time we saw it was in the funeral.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Home coming up in the next episode of Paper Ghosts.
Speaker 6 (54:07):
And then I heard it again. I heard like a
thunder noise, and then I heard what sounded like a gunshot,
and then I think I may have heard it maybe
one or two more times, and then that was it.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I mean, honestly, if they did not want you in
the city, they would run you out.
Speaker 7 (54:24):
Period.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
We were always told.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Never say when it gets dark.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
As soon as it even starts to get dark, you
leave immediately because that was known to be where the
KKK would come and you know, do their nightly things
or whatever meetings.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
So if you were in the wrong place at the
wrong time, then you would get.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Caught at that.
Speaker 8 (54:43):
Oh the girl passing your side, she was laying back ester,
she was dressed. He was on the driver's side. She
was landing more toward the door than the window. Okay,
and back who would right on the grounded the ground
(55:05):
origin We're leaked out of the car Lake dele Car.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Check out my weekly podcast, Crossing the Line with m
William Phelps, where I delve into a new missing person
and cold case murder each week. Wherever you get your
favorite shows. Paper Ghost season five is written and executive
produced by me M William Phelps. Script consulting by iHeartMedia
(55:34):
Executive producer Catherine Law, Production by toc Boom Productions, Audio
mastering and mixing by Brandon Dicker. The series' theme number
four four to two is written and performed by Thomas
Phelps and Tom Mooney
This is not real. This is not real, this is
not you know, not mine, Shelley, No, you know, and
it's just like a oh, I cannot even tell you
what it feels like. It is feel like something has
just gotten hooked to your heart and just ripped it apart,
crushed it. You know, it's just your being is just
(00:29):
like gone.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
In those years before it all began, they spoke mostly
of God country, cattle and cutting horses. Yep, murder has
a way of changing the town and its people and
seems to wash away a lifetime of pleasant memories.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That it's still that, you know. Then you're in the
shock and you but I still didn't want anybody telling me.
I didn't want to hear anything. It was horrible. It
was horrible.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Over four decades have passed, yet the magnitude and pain
of losing a child to murder feels as raw and
real as it did on that morning when she first
heard those unimaginable words no parent should ever have to hear.
Time is no healer whoever said that never lost a
(01:36):
damn child to the hands of a killer. Making matters
even worse is when you and so many others feel
you know, who was responsible, but no one seems to
be doing anything about it. What's more, law enforcement stops
answering your calls, creating a force field of silence around
anyone connected to the case. Because justice in the small
(02:01):
Texas town where your life changed forever is unlike justice
most everywhere else.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So everybody that you taught to will say, you know
it was law enforcement everybody. So just the optics alone
looked bad, right, I mean, if you know, you need
to be careful.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And if what I've found is any indication, the good
Old Boys Club, a seemingly distant memory of the past,
appears to be alive and thriving and even more powerful
than ever, forty plus years after the fact.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
My name is Debbie Billingsley. I lived in fort Worth, Texas.
I was born and raised in Weatherford. We moved to
fort Worth about, oh, I don't know, twenty four years ago,
maybe just because I wanted to get away from everything
that was over there in Weatherford. There was just so
(03:07):
much going on that I really became afraid to stay
there when Shelley and Vincent were killed that night. From
that day forward, I had so many people knocking on
my door telling me they were the police, they were this,
they were that, and I found out that four of
(03:28):
them were not police, and so I became very afraid.
I didn't know who to trust at that point.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
My name is em William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist
and the New York Times bestselling author of dozens of
true crime books. This is season five of Paper Ghosts,
the Texas Team Murders. Driving from Fort Worth into Weatherford
(04:11):
about a thirty minute trip, give or take, the one
thing you noticed immediately is the amount of construction going
on everywhere. New apartment complexes, restaurants, strip malls, condos, walk in,
medical facilities, road construction as far as the eye can see.
(04:33):
It's one of two fates that befalls a small town
in America. It either fades away to dust or becomes
one big strip mall full of the same cookie cutter,
fast casual drek that swallows any town that dares to survive.
And yet, looping off the exit ramp heading into downtown Weatherford,
(04:55):
you get this nostalgic feeling that time has stood still,
stuck somewhere around the mid to early eighties. As I
made my way down Main Street, the strip they used
to call it heading to me to contact in a
forty two year old double murder. I get this strong
(05:16):
sense of how life was here back in the day
when these strange and grisly events took place, walking around
talking to people visiting the crime scene and other key locations.
The emotional ripple effect of pain associated with two teens
(05:37):
out on their first card date brutally murdered for seemingly
no reason at one of the more popular locations in
town is still as sensitive as it was on that
first morning after their bodies were discovered. I had been
warned be careful. People asking questions about these cases in
(05:59):
the past have died in accidents and supposedly by suicide,
and there are certain figures in town who will protect
the secrets at all costs. Even now, all this time, Leader.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
It takes me back to a long, long time ago.
My dad was an alcoholic and for years, but praise God,
he quit drinking it and was sober thirty years before
he passed away. But our town was a small little town.
Anybody that had authority ran the town, and our sheriff
had his hand in everything that went on. We had
(06:38):
a trades day ground where people used to go and
set up and sell their wares, and there was some
empty houses. He so liquor out of prostitution. There was
gambling going on down there. And the reason I know
that for a fact is years and years later, my
(06:58):
dad told me when he drank. Our town was a
dry county. You had to drive to Fort Worth to
get liquor, any kind of liquor. And so my dad
told me, mister had these places and anybody could go
buy it, you just had to have the money. He'd
go buy the liquor and then sell it for twice
(07:18):
to what it was worth, just because our county was dry.
And he's the sheriff, you know. So we learned real
young in life that just because they were law enforcement
didn't mean they were good people. And he controlled everything
that went on, drugs, alcohol, transportation of trafficking of people,
(07:44):
all of that. He was involved in all of it,
and nobody ever did anything because they were too afraid to.
He made it very clear you either did what he
said or you paid that price. So when all of
this happened and with us, I just became very afraid
to be there. And right now we've lived in Fort
(08:08):
Worth twenty something years. But My kids still live in Weatherford,
and my great grandsons still live both them, and I
don't like that. I only go to Weatherford to see them,
and then I come home. I don't stay. I just
don't trust the people. Even after all of these years,
I still don't trust them.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Debbie Billingsley is much older now, with kids and grandchildren.
She was one of the last people to see the
kids on the night they left the house and never returned.
You will hear more from Debbie as we move forward,
but her sentiment sets the tone. Weatherford, Texas is unlike
(08:50):
most towns, where justice runs its course and the good
guys generally win, the townspeople satisfied in the streets returning
to safety. In contrast, all I have heard from one
person after the next is that you would better watch
your back out here, be it nineteen eighty three or
(09:11):
twenty twenty five, and that the law has its own
way of settling scores, keeping tabs, and intimidating those who
speak out so that they never speak again.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I know then something was wrong, something's wrong. So I
just got down in the car, locked the doors, and
I didn't want to get out because I didn't want
to hear. You know, I don't, no, no, no, everything's fine.
So finally I do get out, and you know, here's
these people in my house and the detectives and and
(09:54):
it was like, huh uh, no, you don't go tell
me nothing. You're not going to tell me nothing. So
I went to her room and I got on her
bed and just started calling everybody I had. My best
girlfriend was there, and now I just kept telling her,
(10:15):
and she said, Johnny, okay, let's stop calling. I said, no,
I want him to know it's okay, she can come home.
He's okay, she's not in trouble, she can come home.
So I went through that for about two days. I
didn't want to hear don't tell me nothing, But I
(10:37):
don't want to hear nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
When you lose a child, your world stops. A choking
feeling consumes you, as if you will never breathe again.
It becomes a continuous state of agonizing emotional bondage, which
you know will never let go. You can't function properly,
think straight, do simple things. No, nothing will ever be
(11:08):
the same again. For Janetic Coliflower Smith, forty two years
have passed since her fourteen year old daughter walked out
the door for the last time. She can't sleep anymore,
and the fact that her daughter's killer or killers are
still walking around town is a haunting reality, almost too
(11:29):
difficult to contend with. It's not easy to talk about.
In fact, it's almost impossible. Hearing about it is crushing.
And yet Janetta, just like the families of so many victims,
understands that if you don't talk about it, that pain,
(11:49):
it will suffocate you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
But you know, at that moment, it's you can't even
think of stuff. You just and for days from us,
and then forty years down the road last year I
think it was last year. Then I'm told all this
different that and I hate to say it's hard, hard
heart to say. But then the weather for detectives tell
(12:15):
me no, no, they were not they were shot.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
You know it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
It's hard, It just you know, it just comes back
and gives you the in my head, the pictures of
what it was like.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Janetta explains that after decades of not hearing anything from
law enforcement, in twenty twenty one, there they were again,
knocking on her door, asking questions and sharing details about
the case she had never heard before.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And they resided their head. It's what I'm taught and
uh as we went on then h then one of
them told him said they didn't. I said, oh my god,
she was scared. I know, I know she was, and
(13:19):
I did know she was terrified, and I do know
it's me. She's thinking about, you know, where's my mama?
And uhh.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And this is.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Oh a real.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I met one of the victim's mothers where she now
lives in a gated community of Catholics, even though she
herself isn't. It was a windy, scorchingly hot day in February,
and what was immediately apparent to me was that shadow
of pain on her face, knowing she was going to
(14:22):
be rehashing the worst moment of her life.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
My name is jon Eda Smith, but I was Cauliflower
for years, and that's the name that my daughter goes by,
Shelley Cauliflower.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like many who live in this Bucolic rural section of
central Texas, out on the outskirts of no familiar place,
Janetta grew up in the general region and has remained
here her entire life.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I grew up in a littletown, Meridi in Texas. I
mean there was no lights, no nothing. When we're talking
streets roll up. And I had a great young life.
My dad was a Baptist preacher, and yes, I was
raised as a preacher's daughter, but I was not the
(15:18):
preacher's daughter. I mean I didn't get a chance to
be that preacher's daughter because my dad was so strict,
so strict. I didn't get that part.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
When you say strict, what do you mean.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I really wasn't allowed to do anything. You know, he
didn't want me to play sports because like basketball, I
was never allowed to wear shorts, you know, or pants
or anything like that. He was a wonderful man. His
idea was what would people think? He just you know,
he felt like I needed to be a preacher's daughter.
(15:55):
You know, I needed to be good, you know. I mean,
I guess basically wholesome. But he was wonderful man.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
You can hear the anguish in Janetta's voice. Every word
seems on the brink of fracturing. Janetta Collie Flower Smith
has lived the past four decades of her life in
a prison, a self contained box of emotional hell. I've
rarely encountered with murder victims' families. The events of March
(16:24):
twenty fifth and twenty sixth, nineteen eighty three broke. This
woman caught her soul into so many different pieces. She
has no idea even to this day how to even
begin to put herself back together.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I got married very early.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Well how old were you?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Sixteen?
Speaker 5 (16:49):
So you were sixteen? And what was your husband's name?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
His name? His name was cauch.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Okay, so that's where the couch name comes from.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
But I want to make clear, hey never had anything
to do with her.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Nothing, And tell me about that. So what happens?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I mean, so you meet him, you're sixteen, you get married,
and you have a child right away, So you're what
seventeen eighteen and you have Shelley?
Speaker 5 (17:14):
And what's that like for you?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh? I adored her her, you know it was Oh,
I just adored her. So she was so sweet. She
was a baby that had these you know sometimes you
call them rubber band babies. That's when they had all
of these little rolls in their legs, in their arms
because they're so fat. And she was just amazing. She's
(17:37):
a good baby. It was okay.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
After moving round a bit, Janetta, her second husband, Ronnie Colliflower,
Shelley and a second child, Christy settled in Weatherford. Recently,
the town has been put on the map, so to speak,
as major portions of the hit television show Yellowstone were
filmed on a local ranch. It has a homey country
(18:02):
feel about it, steer and cattle horses, cowboy boots, jeans
and stetsons, and up in the moor, spread out flat areas,
those sprawling ranches with the iron gates their names forged
in steel. Generally speaking, downtown looks and feels like any
(18:22):
other contemporary Western settlement. Taco Bell and sonic Walmart, trendy
gourmet coffee shops, plenty of Southwestern architectural charm, dirt roads,
far more trucks than cars, fuel stations with snacks and
soda fountains on every corner. People tip their hats and
say howdy, They smile, ask how you are. Yet, anyone
(18:48):
living in town for more than a few years knows
that Weatherford holds deep, dark, murderous secrets buried just below
its magnetic western charm, a past marred in bizarre suicides,
strange supposedly accidental deaths, and several high profile brutal murders
(19:10):
of popular teenagers.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
It was at that time it was a small town.
It probably like any other town in the South, the Texas.
You know, there was no Internet or nothing like that,
so we kind of had our own little heritage here.
You know, there's a lot of cliques and stuff like
people like groups of people had kind of had their
own way of doing stuff and thinking and stuff like that,
(19:32):
and it's still to somewhat. It's still like that today.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
Back then, you.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Kind of had a bunch of different groups. You kind
of had like the what they call the ropers, which
was kind of your cowboys types, kind of had your rockers,
the jocks, so the jocks, the go rovers, the hippies,
the preppies, and all everything in between, and that was
kind of a combination of all of them.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
The drug culture was thriving then, perhaps as it still
is today. Hardcore stuff like coke, speed, and I kid
you not, stories of methamphetamine labs, cooks and dealers with
ties to law enforcement, straight out of the hit television
series Breaking Bad.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
So some of the that was kind of a weird
thing too, because some of the jocks were into the
drug thing, some of the preppies were into the drug thing.
I don't know much about the drug thing. I was
not I was. I wasn't a part of that. I
tried to stay far away from that as I could.
But you know, back then we had rock. We'd go
to rock concerts. You knew it was there, but you know,
(20:48):
if you're not involved with it, you're not going to
know much about it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Still, for Ronnie and Genetic Cauliflower, along with their children
Shelley and Christy, when they arrived in nineteen eighty, Weatherford
felt like the ideal place to settle down and enjoy
what we're supposed to be the best years of their lives.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Had a very, very very nice house and with some
achorage at a little bit of acreage. And of course
Ronnie's a cowboy. It's always been a cowboy he, you know,
and that was exciting to him, and it was exciting
to make us.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
The house was so nice, a gorgeous ranch with lots
of fenced in flat land out front, like an enormous
carpet leading down toward the road, horses, a gate down
at the end of the driveway to the Collieflowers. It
was paradise. What a place to raise a family. And
(21:46):
what did you think of Weatherford when you got there?
It was Okay, how did Shelley like it?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Oh, she loved school. She loved church, you know, she
loved it, happy, happy, happy.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
So you guys were a church going family, and yeah,
and she like going to church.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh, she loved church. Church was her best thing. And
at the funeral, you know, I don't remember a lot,
but somethings stand out to me, and like at the funeral,
I remember her pastor saying Shelley was one of the
most faithful members they had. I mean, her best friend
(22:26):
and her parents were real, very very church oriented, and
of course Shelley went with her every time.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
If I didn't understanding this case, it's complexities and how
for over four decades this town has so many questions
left unanswered. Began a few years back from me, the
administrator of a Facebook group, Justice for Vincent, and Shelley
reached out. Please please help us. She wrote to me,
(22:59):
feeling from stonewalled and patronized by a bureaucratic court system,
refusing her even the most basic case documents, police reports,
witness statements and so on. She pleaded for me to
take a look into the case. We had several conversations.
(23:21):
She introduced me to good honest people seeking justice. She
hoped that once I got a sense of the underlying
silence and as she claimed cover ups, I'd want to help,
because as far as she and the victims' families were concerned,
no one else would.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
My name is Lorie Kates and I'm from Weatherford, Texas.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Have you grown up in what Ford? Your whole life?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Pretty much? We moved from Arlington, Texas back in nineteen
eighty three. December of eighty three, I was nine years old,
and we you know, I grew up out here. My
mom was a real estate agent in Parker County and
(24:23):
my dad worked at General Motors in Arlington.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
At fifty A hairdresser by trade, Laurie is a quintessential
Texan with that noticeable Western accent and old fashioned appeal.
She wears a silver cross and earrings in the shape
of Texas. She's proud of her roots and who she is.
She carries a twenty five caliber pistol with a pink
(24:51):
pearl handle and doesn't mince words when it comes to
her opinions, especially when we get into Shelley. In Vincent's case,
she may come across suite and innocent, and yet for
the years I have known her now, Laurie is anything
but passive and soft spoken, a steel hand and a
(25:14):
velvet glove.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Because we need help, we need help, we need And
Shelley was fourteen, I mean, and Vincent was sixteen, and
these were kids, and we're just trying to get answers
to family. Is they've been denied any answers from weather
(25:37):
for PDA. They hate the chief, hangs up on the family.
They will not talk to the family.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Weatherford is the seat of Parker County. Today, there are
some one hundred and fifty thousand people, three times more
than there was in nineteen eighty three when all of
this began. Although data for that year doesn't exist, it's
safe to say Weatherford house between ten and fifteen thousand souls.
(26:06):
So it was very much small town Texas.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I grew up on the outskirts in a smaller little
town called Peaster, and we didn't even have a gas station,
so we had to go to Weatherford for everything. Grocery store,
you know, that type of thing, if we wanted to
go to movies. I mean, as far as I knew
as a kid it, you know, it was just growing
(26:32):
up in a normal country, you know, country town small town,
very family oriented. Our Friday nights consisted of cow tipping
in pastures, you know, after drinking a perhaps blue ribbon
or something. It has a courthouse, beautiful courthouse built in
the eighteen hundreds. The town were known for peaches. Actually,
(26:56):
they have a peach festival every year. They have farmers
market where everybody goes and gets their fresh troops and vegetables.
It's just a cute, nice, little, you know, little small
typical town.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
The idea that evil exists in what's known as the
peach capital of the state seems out of place for
the people who call Weatherford home. And yet the past
doesn't lie.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Weatherford is the cutting capital of the world. There's a
lot of ranches out here, big you know, cowboys everywhere,
wranglers and boots. That's what everybody wears, cowboy hats. It
wasn't uncommon to see police officers riding horses. There's a
shriff's posse which rides horses. You know, it's a country
(27:51):
western cowboy town.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I think there is a cliche or maybe judgment that
small town America, especially in the South and West, consists
of families sitting on porches at night in rocking chairs,
a piece of straw in the corner of their mouths
after a day of rustling upsteer and cutting horses in
the dry, blowing dirt. There's the conception that things are
(28:18):
run by the local sheriff, boots up on his desk,
bella hanging over his belt, buckle, deputy standing around just
waiting to do his bidding. Thank Hollywood for those images. Yet,
as I got to know Laurie Moore and she introduced
me to others involved in this case, and an investigator
(28:41):
you will meet later on in the podcast, it became
clear that the old cliche of the bully sheriff and
his cronies running around doing his business is no bastardized
version of reality, particularly when the body count begins to
grow end when you consider what happened up on ten
(29:04):
Top Road in Weatherford in March nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
The first time that I ever heard about corruption, the
good old boys club, so to speak, was back in
I was probably in sixth grade and my best friend Marlene,
her parents owned the skating rink. They had picked me
(29:32):
up and we were on the way of the skating
rink and my friend Marlene looked at me. We were
probably twelve years old, and she said, Hey, did you
hear about the meth lab that blew up an over house.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
The man Laurie mentioned was in law enforcement at the time,
a name I have heard now from most everyone I
have spoken to as being connected to the case in
some way.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
If he's not involved directly, he knows what happened, you know.
I think there was some information floating around about uh,
he was pulled over by the at that time. Instead
of getting the DWI, he gave him a ride home,
you know, And that kind of just that stuck out
in my head, like, Wow, you're thinking that did this,
(30:21):
or the rumor and yet that's been known out there
that you know, you're thinking they were part of it.
Thatn't really. Yeah, it kind of clicks a little funny,
you know.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
To get up the truth in any cold case, weading
through rumor, speculation and talk inside the local diners and
dive bars can be a cumbersome dance. You have to
weed out fact from fiction. What brought me here and
piqued my interest all those years ago is the sheer
(30:56):
number of young people whose lives were lost during in
the late seventies and mid eighties, when several serial killers
were active in this part of the country. When a
certain group of victims are basically the same age, hang
around the same circles, and disappear or are murdered within
the same general region, it's almost a given you go
(31:19):
straight to the serial killer theory. Yet I am not
so sure that would be productive in these cases.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
There was a lot of meth that was being run
through Parker County, and as long as you sold for
there was no problem. You got arrested by another officer,
you were let out, no problem. But if you stopped
(31:58):
and you tried to get clean, and you said no,
I'm not going to do it, then things would happen.
Kids would come up missing, to the point where the
justice of the peace at the time would make the call.
If you showed up at a scene where somebody had
passed away, he would make the call whether to send
(32:19):
the body for an autopsy or not. There was a
guy named Jimmy Joe Hayes nineteen eighty six. He was
found hanging by the Brass River with his feet and
his hands bound. So the local funeral hunt went because
declared it a suicide. Mister had showed up and when
(32:43):
he saw the suicide, he said, Oh my gosh, how
could the guy commit suicide with his hands tied and
his feet tied together.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
When you add hard drugs to the equation with truckloads
of money at stick, it changes the dynamic of murder
investigation considerably. And when you have a corner on the
ground seemingly working for law enforcement and not the truth,
those murders can be easily buried in the depths of silence.
(33:20):
Yet within a case where there is so much information
centered around forty two year old stories and so many
people are still scared of speaking out, where do you
even begin.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It was really bizarre for me when I started researching
this case to look back and think, oh my gosh,
my parents moved us out here for a better life.
Arlington was getting big, and then to come to find
out there was so much going on that we didn't
(33:56):
even know about. My mom was a real estate agent
and had never heard about Shelley and Vincent. People don't talk.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Since twenty twenty two, Laurie Kates has spent just about
every free moment she has invested in searching for answers
in two of the cold cases. I am here to
look into Michelle, Shelley Colliflower and Vincent t Jerina. She
makes phone calls, interviews witnesses, knocks on doors, digs into
(34:26):
county land and arrest records, chases leads down one rabbit
hole after the next. She has become a saving grace
for these families and also a bug in the ear
of those hoping to keep the secrets of the past buried.
I would probably not be involved without Laurie being persistent
(34:46):
and convincing me that there is so much going on
behind these murders. The deeper you get into the muck,
the thicker and greener the swamp water becomes.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
When we move here in nineteen eighty three, I mean,
this was a small town, and it just floored me
when I found when I come across this case and
then found out about all the other things along the way,
and has floored me. It's been shocking.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Sixteen kids in the high school that year nineteen eighty
three where either murdered, died in strange accidents, or committed suicide.
For a town where there are only about twelve hundred
students in the entire school, that's a hell of a lot. Today,
(35:38):
more than that, any other time, you cannot bypass or
overlook the large amount of online slothing and social media
involved in cold cases. I have mixed feelings about online
true crime sleuthing groups, armchair investigators, and social media influencers
trading exploitation for and viral views. Laurie is not one
(36:03):
of those people. She is someone who gets up every
morning and answers her calling in life to find answers
for the Teagerina and Collie Flower families. That is her purpose.
This case is in her blood. It happened in her time.
She feels a kinship and connection to these kids and
(36:24):
their families who trust her unconditionally. And so why did
you begin getting involved with this justice page?
Speaker 3 (36:33):
So? I was part of a group called the Fort
Worth Cold Case Club, and they were working on the
Carla Walker and murder, which has now been solved. They
had other little cold cases and we started researching and
that we hit a wall on this one case that
(36:54):
we were researching. And so I was just flipping around
on Facebook and show cousin had posted about Shelley Vincent's
murder and I thought, oh my gosh, I've never even
heard about this, and this was in my hometown. I
reached out and I got involved and I started sharing it,
(37:16):
and then COVID happened, and so you know, from twenty
nineteen till February twenty two, we didn't do a whole
lot because of COVID. That kind of shut down a lot.
But that's when I really started getting involved. Chief Lance
Arnold had private message me on Facebook. I've got all
(37:37):
the messages and wanted to set up a meeting. So
me and my friend went to this meeting. It was
a three hour meeting and that's when he told us
that there was evidence that was destroyed. There was a
city dup truck that backed up, There was supposedly a
rat infestation in a flood in the evidence room. And
(38:00):
they have no idea what was thrown away. They can't
find showing Vincent's clothes, They have no idea what happened
to them. The car, which was part of the crime
scene was given back to the family within a week
and then it sat out in the elements. It was
a three hour conversation with no dead space.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Why did he want to tell you all of this?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I think in the beginning he was he was being open,
and I think because it had got spread all over
because he told me that after I had made that post.
The reason he had reached out to me was because
within about an hour of that post, he had gotten
about ten phone calls and his wife was in the
(38:46):
kitchen cooking. He was in the living room, and she said, honey,
have you seen this? And he said, yep, I've gotten
you know, ten messages over this, and that's when he
reached out to me. So I don't know. You know,
that's a good question in a way, because at first
I thought that he was really wanting to help. So
(39:06):
he had told me, and I asked him too. He
said that they had five scenarios that they were working
on and they had marked it down to four. And
I asked him if we were in one of those
scenarios and he said yes. He said, well, that's really
not the direction we're heading, but if we need to,
(39:28):
we will. We'll go down that road because it's the
right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
The names I redacted you will here mentioned throughout the podcast,
and I apologize for the obstruction, but they have not
been charged with the crimes. So many different people are
accusing them of and if I am being straight up,
I am not yet convinced that scenario so many belief
(39:55):
is a viable answer for these murders.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
All right, So you.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Reach out to me, and your hope is to.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Get justice, to get some answers. We want to get
who did it? The family deserves it.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
And what made you think I could provide that?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
You know what's so crazy is I saw you on
twenty twenty and I thought, because honestly, we have talked
to other podcasters. We've talked to some other people, but
I can see you telling their story. I listened to
your podcast. I'm like, Okay, this guy is a bulldog.
(40:34):
He will go out for the answers and he doesn't
care if he steps on some toast. And that's who
we need. We need somebody that's not scared.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
March twenty fifth, nineteen eighty three, was a Friday. It
started out overcast. The rains would come later on that evening.
The day began like most others for Shelley Colliflower and
Vincent t Jerina. They had been dating for a few
months by then. Janetta Collie Flower Smith liked Vincent. He
(41:27):
was two years older than Shelley and Mexican American, which
will become important as racially motivated accusations later emerge. Some
people didn't like the idea of a white girl dating
a Mexican American boy, and in the eighties this type
of direct racism was rampant and hardly hidden in any way,
(41:51):
as was in this part of the country. The ku
Klux Klan Kkk. Janetta and Ronnie had plans. That weekend
was their wedding anniversary and they were heading out of town.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Ronnie and I were going to Brownwood for our anniversary.
That's where we bought our first house, and that's where
Shelley started school. So that morning we got up as normal.
It was on a Friday, on the twenty fifth of March,
and they rode the bus. But Shelley says, Mama, don't
(42:38):
you take to school today? And I said, okay, because
you know we were going to be gone, It's okay.
So here we go and there's a convenience store and
Shelley wanted to stop, so we went and we stopped
and they got well, Shelley did, Christy couldn't because she
wasn't old enough, you know, to take something to school
(42:58):
or whatever. And I won't ever forget ever. When she
walked out I thought how pretty she was, you know,
I mean, that's just in uh, you know. And she
had a coke in one hand and a sucker in
the other one, a lollipop yes, And I said, you know,
(43:19):
there's the big girl in her and there's the other one,
the child in her. But I thought she was so
beautiful that day. So we take Christie's school first, you know,
when it's the usual routine. We get a kiss and
you know, I love you, and you know, I love you, mama,
(43:42):
and that, and so then I take Shelley to school
and she just happy, go lucky, you know, she had
her books share then you had books. And she gets
out of the car and she she turned around and
looks at me, and it was a different kind of
(44:02):
I mean, and she goes, Mama, I love you, goodbye.
That was the last words I heard from when that
was the last time.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I saw her.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Ronnie didn't want Shelley dating Vincent, let alone going out
with him at night by themselves, but they had not
told Ronnie about the date. Vincent had borrowed his father's
Monte Carlo for the night so he and Shelley could
go on their first card day. As most everyone put
it later on, they had been talking about this night
(44:40):
for weeks. The Collie Flowers neighbor Debbie Billingsley, whom you
heard earlier in the episode, babysat for Janetta at times
after school because Janetta and Ronnie were heading out of town.
Janetta picked the girls up and dropped them off at
Debbie's where they would stay the weekend. Ronie got home
(45:00):
from work, he and Janetta would leave dev How did
you meet Shelley's family? When did you meet them?
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Well, we lived on a little corner house and the
elementary school was two blocks from our house, and I
met Shelley's mother. I volunteered to head off a group
for campfire girls. I had two daughters. They were both
young enough and wanted to do that, so we got
(45:31):
involved in campfire and john Etta brought her youngest daughter,
Christi and signed up for campfire, and sometimes Shelley would
come with her and we would all work together with
the kids. That's how I met her, and we just
became good friends. Ronnie Cauliflower was very well known in
(45:52):
Weatherford in his younger days. He played football and at
one point in time probably had the possibility to go
pro and he was in college and busted up his
knee and couldn't play anymore. So they moved back to
Weatherford settled in, and john Wait was a very pretty girl.
(46:13):
Of course, our family came from, like I said, my
dad was an alcoholic and our family came from the
wrong side of town. So Ronnie didn't like me at all,
and he kept telling john Etta this, she shouldn't have
anything to do with us, and she said, well, Debbie's
been a good friend to me and we just kind
of grew to know one another that a way. And
(46:34):
she told me that they were having a lot of
marital problems and their anniversary was coming up, and she
wanted to know if I could keep the kids for
the weekend, the girls, and I told her, I said, yeah,
it's no problem. And she said, well, i'll bring them
to you on Friday. And she said, Shelley has a
date with a young boy named Vincent, and it's okay
(46:56):
for her to go on this date. And I said,
so you're given me your permission for her to go,
and she said yes, but I want her home by midnight.
So that's how that all came about.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And had you ever met of Vincent?
Speaker 4 (47:12):
No, not until that night.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
No.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
I had heard a lot about him, that he was
really a nice young man. I don't think I ever
really heard anything bad. He was real into karate, very
motivated with his school work. I'd never really heard anything.
I knew of his family because of the karate, and
(47:36):
there was always stuff in the newspaper about him. And
of course back then there was no cell phones, you know,
it was just all public phones on the corners and this,
that and the other. But I had never really heard
anything bad about him at all. I didn't know anything.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I asked her if there was any talk about Vincent
being Latino Shelley being white.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Yes. Ronnie did not like that. He told Johnetta, I
do not want her dating that boy. It's not allowed.
But I didn't know that at the time. I found
that out later on, and I don't think, well, I
know when this all happened. Ronnie did not know that
(48:21):
john Etta had gave me permission for Shelley to go
on this date, and he held me accountable for it
happening because I allowed her to go.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
I wondered if Debbie could comment about Shelley's demeanor that Friday.
Looking at this objectively, you have to consider that the
kids had some sort of plan beyond just driving around.
They're teenagers. They tell their parents one thing, do another.
That's normal and realistic. Tracing their movements every moment becomes vital.
(48:59):
Who they to, where they went, who they saw, who
saw them.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
It was a Friday afternoon when john Etta brought the
girls to my house. We talked standing out in the
front yard. She was getting ready to go home because
her and Ronnie were leaving that evening, and she said,
now they can go on the date. It's fine, don't
worry about it. Everything will be okay. And I said, okay,
so I've got your permission for her to go. She
said yes, So they left and the girls and I
(49:29):
all went in. Shelley was very excited about the date,
you know, just giddy like a fourteen year old girl
would be, telling me how nice Vincent was or respectful
he was, and that she had never had anybody pay
that kind of attention to her. They got to the
house about four thirty or five that afternoon and he
(49:50):
picked her up. I'm going to say between six and
six thirty. He came to the house, he come up
to the door, he came in introduced hisself. She look
hands with My husband was very nice, very polite. He said,
I'll have her home before midnight, he said, because I
have a karate tournament tomorrow. He said, so I have
(50:10):
to be home by eleven. He said, so I'll have
her home way before then. He said, I promise I'll
take care of her.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
One of the things Shelley and Vincent had in common
was their love of horses. Vincent was in the tenth grade,
Shelley a freshman. Vincent had talked about wanting to be
an Air Force pilot. Shelley mentioned cosmetology school and teaching.
Vincent's mother later recalled that Vincent read the Bible every day,
(50:39):
could recite verses, and she had hoped he'd going to
the priesthood. Everyone I have spoken to had nothing but
praise and love for both of these kids. They got
excellent grades, never caused problems, didn't get into trouble, and
did not hang around the kids taking drugs or They
(51:01):
had found each other, seemed content and even distanced themselves
from the clicks.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
They left, and it was a really stormy hunt, lots
of storms. My grandmother was at our house, and so
I loaded the three girls up and my grandmother took
her to my mom's and I took the younger girl's
roller skating, and I stayed at the skating rink with them,
(51:28):
and we got back home around ten or so. The
girls got their baths and made popcorn and went in
to watch a movie, and midnight rolled around. She wasn't home.
I was really getting scared and worried. Before she left,
I gave her four quarters and a piece of paper
(51:50):
with my name and phone number written on it, and
I told her, I said, if you get in a
situation that you're uncomfortable, all you have to do is
call me and I'll come in get you. There'll be
no questions asked. And when they found her, the quarters
were still there, but the piece of paper with my
name and number was gone, So I had no idea
(52:11):
who had that.
Speaker 5 (52:12):
As midnight rolls around, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (52:16):
I'm pacing the floors because it's really storming out. My
husband and I are getting really antsy because she's not home.
Because Vincent said he had to be home by eleven
and that he would have her home before then. My
husband said, Hey, I'm just going to get in the
car and I'm gonna go drive around town and see
(52:38):
if I can see anything. And he left and came back,
and he said, I didn't find them. I didn't see
their car anywhere. He stayed there for a while. One
o'clock rolls, around two o'clock, he goes out again, looking again.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
As the night turns into the early morning hours of
March twenty sixth, fear turns to dread. There is no
way Vincent would keep Shelley out all night long and
not call or come back and explain why they were
so late. He was an extremely responsible, dependable boy. Also,
(53:15):
Vincent was a disciplined student of karate and had a
tournament the next day, so he had to get up early.
Debbie knew in her gut something was very wrong because
Janetta and Ronnie were out of town. The first thing
she did was called Vincent Tejerina Senior, Vincent's father, and
(53:36):
explain what was happening. Vincent Senior immediately set out in
the second family vehicle to search for the kids. After that,
Debi tracked down Ronnie and Janetta and told them what
was happening. That Shelley was missing, and.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
The next time we saw it was in the funeral.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Home coming up in the next episode of Paper Ghosts.
Speaker 6 (54:07):
And then I heard it again. I heard like a
thunder noise, and then I heard what sounded like a gunshot,
and then I think I may have heard it maybe
one or two more times, and then that was it.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I mean, honestly, if they did not want you in
the city, they would run you out.
Speaker 7 (54:24):
Period.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
We were always told.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Never say when it gets dark.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
As soon as it even starts to get dark, you
leave immediately because that was known to be where the
KKK would come and you know, do their nightly things
or whatever meetings.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
So if you were in the wrong place at the
wrong time, then you would get.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Caught at that.
Speaker 8 (54:43):
Oh the girl passing your side, she was laying back ester,
she was dressed. He was on the driver's side. She
was landing more toward the door than the window. Okay,
and back who would right on the grounded the ground
(55:05):
origin We're leaked out of the car Lake dele Car.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Check out my weekly podcast, Crossing the Line with m
William Phelps, where I delve into a new missing person
and cold case murder each week. Wherever you get your
favorite shows. Paper Ghost season five is written and executive
produced by me M William Phelps. Script consulting by iHeartMedia
(55:34):
Executive producer Catherine Law, Production by toc Boom Productions, Audio
mastering and mixing by Brandon Dicker. The series' theme number
four four to two is written and performed by Thomas
Phelps and Tom Mooney
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com