July 24, 2024 • 50 mins
Parney is joined by Hall of Fame boxing promoter and Richmond Flying Squirrels owner Lou DiBella. Lou shares incredible stories about Muhammad Ali, his remarkable journey and experiences as a fight promoter, and how he became the owner of the Flying Squirrels. Plus, so much more!
Parney is also joined by the Pub Club with Michael Phillips and Joe T!
Follow us on social media: https://linktr.ee/parneytime
Follow Michael Phillips @michaelpinRVA
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And this inning of Parney Time and the Party Time
podcast is presented by West Broad Honda, corner of Broad
Street and Glenside Drive, serving Richmond in the surrounding area
since nineteen seventy eight. They sell more Hondas each year
than any of the other Honda dealers in Richmond. Number
one volume dealer in Central Virginia, long history of supporting
(00:21):
the Richmond community. The Page Auto Group currently works with
the Flying Squirrels are beloved Flying Squirrels VSU Athletics, MS
Society and the Special Olympics. Perfect balance of inventory available
so you can find the Honda you want today. Looking
for an electric vehicle, West Broad Honda has the all
new twenty twenty four Honda prologues, Honda's first EV with
(00:45):
total range under three hundred miles. You can listen to
four Partey Time episodes. They also have great offers on
every model, including two point nine percent financing on the
Honda CRV and Accord and zero percent on the Honda Ridgeline.
West Broad Honda is your home for your next new
Honda or certified pre on. Honda also a large selection
(01:09):
of non Honda pre owned vehicles. Wes Broad Honda you
can become a customer for life. Jo T West Broad Honda,
Hell yeah, all right, what time is it? Everybody? It
is Party Time? Aning number one, Will the Throw, Clark
(01:33):
Aning number two, Steve Klein edited version any number three,
Carl and Sam Ravich Aning number four, World Champion Person,
World Champion Texas Ranger, Tony Beasley, and today all about relationships.
(01:53):
Party Time Podcast. We have Lou Dabella Boxing Hall of Fame,
I League Baseball owner, but he's on here because he's
my pal. I've got Joe T behind me. Joe T
are excited about lou Debella. Hell yeah, and MP on
the mic representing Parney's Pub Club, Sweet Loudabella. We have
(02:17):
no idea where are the conversation's gonna go, But welcome
to Parney Time. Baby.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Most of our conversations we don't know where the hell
they're gonna go. Party That's like that's been part for
the course for a lot of years. Bro.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So well, that's really that's really true, And I really
don't know where to start. MP. Welcome to Party Time.
We missed you. I think the last episode you did vacation.
That's not that's not allowed on Party Time. We're all
VA vacations have to be approved.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I held up. I held up the pub club standard
by continuing to drink though, so don't worry about me.
I maintained public club exacting standards at all times. Fired
up for lou Debella. I want to hear some boxing stories, man.
I remember Show Time HBO back in the day. I'm
excited to hear about all that and both and both
of them are out of the boxing businesses.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I know, I know, yeah, you want to talk about
your life, work getting unraveled and fucking collapsing. But you know,
there is the I was the king of premium cable boxing,
of which there is none anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Stay hot, baby, Stay hot. Well let's start right there.
Uh you're you're You're from New York. You live in
New York. I know a lot of your stories. We're
gonna pull them out of you. How did it all
start with boxing? You know?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It started with baseball actually and boxing. I mean it
started at the same time. And it's sort of like, look,
if you want to look at a kid's dreams, and
then you turn around and you own a couple of
baseball teams and you're in the boxing Hall of Fame.
When your two favorite sports when you were six seven
years old were baseball and boxing, right, and and that's
(03:59):
how it was for me. I it started like my
grandfathers watched two sports. They were Italian immigrants. They barely
one of them barely spoke English, the other one spoke
English you know better. But they were Italian immigrants. They
they knew soccer, but there was no soccer at that
point ever on TV in the United States, and they knew.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
By god, unless it was still that fucking away.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I love soccer, actually, but that's a whole lot discussion.
I love soccer, but I would like I would watch
fights with my grandfathers and I would watch baseball with
my grandfather's because one of the first things they did
when they got to America was they embraced baseball. It
was the American pass time, it was the American game,
and they learned that sport. So I grew up with
my like like baseball and boxing as my first loves.
(04:45):
They're okay, I'm born in nineteen sixty, so by the
time I'm paying attention to sports since the mid to
late sixties, Who am I watching Muhammad Ali? And like
like Muhammad Ali to me, I had never seen an
athlete that was that good looking. I'd never heard an
athlete that sounded that smart, that funny, that quick. And
(05:06):
I was like in love, like I saw Ali and
like there was my hero, right, and now I had
a boxing hero. And then it was like Willie Mays,
Roberto Clementi and Tom Seaver. That was like my baseball
like like holy trinity, you know, for me as a kid, right,
it was like Clemente May's SEVERER and SEVERER. Because my
(05:32):
relatives were Dodger fans, Brooklyn Dodger fans, The Yankees were
not an option. The you know, the only option I
had was to be a Met fan. I was raised
a Met fan, and I'm still a Met fan, right.
But it was baseball and boxing and those were my loves.
And I knew pretty early on as a kid that
(05:53):
I wanted to work in sports or entertainment. I think
I knew that, like when I was in grammar school. Honestly,
like I wanted. I knew I wasn't good enough athlete
to play one of the big sports. I knew I
certainly didn't want to fight. I mean, I you know,
actually I was one of those kids that started out
really tiny, got beaten up a lot until one day
I grew like eight inches in a year, and all
(06:14):
of a sudden, I beat the shit out of one
of my bullies. And then life changed a little bit.
But I wasn't a fighter. I was much more of
like a you know, I was. I was sort of
a mellow kid. I was a smart kid, and I
wanted to be in sports. I wanted to be have
that kind of life. I probably, to be honest with you,
also always wanted to have people know who I was
(06:34):
and and and uh, I'm not gonna bullshit too. That
was something that was always like something that thought would
be cool, right, and and then it sort of went
from there. I went to I was a really good student.
I went to Harvard Law. I went to all scholarship
high school. It was an all boys high school. If
I could have done that again, believe me, I fucking
would have changed that. But you know, I went to
(06:55):
an all boys high school emphasis on academics. I wound
up going to tough Universe City, which seemed really easy
compared to high school. And there were a lot of
chicks around, so it was a lot more fun. But
it tough. I really had been so prepared, Like my
high school was like a Vietnam of high schools. Like
you went there and it was like being in college
(07:16):
when you were a kid, and there were no girls around,
and it was super competitive and everybody was on a scholarship.
And one hundred and forty kids started in my class
and one hundred graduated. The other forty got kicked out,
and most of them became more successful than the guys
I went to high school with. But that's a whole
other story, because they got kicked out and became number
one in valedictorians of their normal high school classes. But
(07:38):
I got out of high school. I went to Tufts,
I wound up doing really well. I got into Harvard
Law School. I didn't really want to be a lawyer.
I never wanted to be a lawyer. I just knew that,
with my Brooklyn accent, that the Harvard degree would be
a really nice thing and it would legitimize me. And
I thought it back in my head that Harvard degree
will helped me get into sports and entertainment. That was
(07:59):
always my agenda. And it took me and then and
then that's that actually happened in HBO. Right. Yeah, But
it happened like it was lots slower than I thought.
Like I went to Harvard, I had all these great grades.
I was like, I was president of Sports and Entertainment
Society at Harvard law School. Like I'm a pretty pretty
good bullshit artist, I'm well spoken. Like I thought I
would like catch on like wildfire and immediately get out
(08:22):
of law school and come up with a job in sports. No,
I slaved like a young lawyer at a big New
York firm for most of five years. And then I
decided that I just wasn't happy, Like I really wasn't happy,
and I was making a shitload of money. Now I
was happy with the money. I was happy with the
lifestyle of money. Let me lead lead as as a
young guy. But in order to get into sports, I
(08:47):
was gonna have to take an enormous pay cut. And
I realized that well, actually, initially, maybe pick I wouldn't
have been that enormous. I interviewed for a job to
be the general counsel of the New York Games. There
was a there we go, here we go. I interviewed
for a job to be the general counsel of the
New York Yankees, and I went through a series of interviews.
(09:10):
I interviewed with various members of the Yankees front office,
including a very famous guy, Arthur Richmond.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You know the name.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I'm sure Arthur Richmond worked with Stime brenderverand all those guys.
And I interviewed him. He loved me and we had
a great interview. And then I was I was one
of three or four people I think that was going
to get to meet the boss, right, and I had
an interview scheduled to go and meet the boss. I
was working at the law firm. Frankly, the law firm
I worked. I was a great firm who was called
Sullivan and Cromwell when the best in the country. They
(09:37):
knew my passion was sports, like they knew it, right.
They liked me. I worked hard, but they knew my
passion with sports, and I literally didn't lie to them.
I said, I have an interview today to go with
the Yikees, and they like, good luck on godspeed, right,
So I took the day off. I'm all dressed. They
got my fucking suit on. I have my my oversized
cell phone from back then because the cell phones were used.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Is it in a bag? Was it in a bag.
I think it was.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It was like the next generation. It was like it
was too big to put in your pocket, but you
didn't need a bag. You sort of carry it around.
And then brick and then I had I had my
resume in my pocket and I'm walked, literally walking out
of my apartment and the apartment landline rings. This is
nineteen eighty nine when people still had landlines, and my
(10:25):
landline rang, and it was Stein, Why I wasn't born yet?
Why I wasn't born yet, but I have underwear older
than you? Whytt the phone rings? I pick it up.
It's Steinwander secretary. She's all sheepish, like she's a nice
lady because I'd spoken to her before, and she's like
sheepish as hell. And I'm like, is there a problem?
(10:47):
Is there something wrong? And she's like, well, you're gonna
think so I'm like, okay, So what she says, Well,
the boss looked at your resume and you're in your
twenties and he just doesn't want to hire a kid
to be general counsel. But that was his message, like
you're just too young for the job, so sorry, but
he's eliminating you. Before your final interview, and I was
(11:10):
like crushed and like crushed to the point that I
wasn't in tears, but like I sighed like like like
someone was dying in front of me. And and you
know she heard his sigh of like of exasperation. And
the lady goes, I don't know if this helps you,
but the guy I think is going to take the
job was close to getting a big job at HBO Sports.
(11:33):
Now this lady has no idea that I love boxing. Wow,
she's And when I say, like I love boxing, I
love boxing. I knew as as a young like I
knew everything about boxing, Like I'm a baseball fan, but
as party can tell you, I don't know everything about baseball.
I still sit around at learn shit and tell stories
with people and and and and like absorb stuff. And
(11:54):
I've been around baseball for twenty years. But I'm not
a baseball But I was a boxing guy before I
ever started working in boxing. So like I knew that
there was nobody else.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Out there that.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
HBO could interview that would know more than me. Right,
So I just immediately when I heard job at each
Other Sports, I'm like, thanks Boom, hanging up the phone.
This is pre nine to eleven. It's nineteen eighty nine, right,
so you still could walk past security and get into
any building you wanted. And basically I snuck past the
security desk at the HBO building on forty second Street,
(12:27):
and I walked up to the general Counsel's office, the
chief lawyer for HBO at the time, because the job
that they were hiring was a legal job. It was
like the general counsel for the sports division. And I
walked to the guy's secretary, and I was a good
looking young kid. I was like, at that point in time,
I still had an ego, and I was like, you know,
I was like basically talking up the secretary to see
(12:50):
if I could get like I did everything short of
asking this woman out, like like you know, to try
to see if I could get into to the guy's office.
I guess I heard me through the door and thought
it was so funny how hard I was working over
his secretary that he called me into the office to
talk to him. And the first thing he said to
(13:11):
me is like, yeah, like, I'm about to make an
offer to somebody else. Now. He didn't know that I
knew that the guy that was getting the offer wasn't
going to take it, and the guy didn't take it.
The guy who was going to get that offer went
to the New York Yankees, right, but he didn't know
that the guy wasn't gonna take it. But I said
to him, I didn't want to play that. That's rude. Anyway,
(13:32):
I said to him, you're hiring the wrong guy. And
I said, well, you're pretty cocky. I said, no, I'm
just hiring the wrong guy. You have my resume, Like
I went to Harvard and did really well. I went
to Tufts and did really well. But no one on
this earth knowes boxing better than me, other than maybe
Seth Abraham. And Seth Abraham was that the president of
HBO Sports and the guy as the lawyer I would
(13:53):
have been working for. Anyway, what wound up happening is
like he liked me and he sent me up to
Seth Abraham's off I spent two hours in Seth Abraham's office.
He was a guy from Brooklyn. He was a big,
huge Seth's favorite sport was also baseball. We spent most
of the next two hours, not only most of it
(14:14):
probably talking about baseball. And then when we got into
the boxing discussion. It was so clear to Seth that that,
like my ridiculous, stupid encyclopedic knowledge of boxing at that
period of time was like insane, and he was like
he called the other lawyer and he's like, I think
this kid may be the fucking guy. But it was
(14:36):
interesting because the biggest hesitation was I was going to
have to take a pay cut to about thirty percent
of what I was making twenty five percent or what
I was making. And they couldn't believe someone would want
to pay take that kind of pay You probably thought.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
That wasn't that big of a pay cut for doing
something you wanted to do, right.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh, I thought it was an enormous pay cut party,
But that big said, though, you know what, man, I
I was making this money, and I wasn't happy. I
wasn't happy. I wasn't happy, right, And I think like
I had already in my mid twenties to late twenties,
came to the conclusion and it ain't about money like
(15:14):
I already had made. And I was also a bit
of an ego maniac, so I thought I would have
a rise at the company, and I thought that the
money would come up. I did you know, but like
I think you know this because you don't be a
long time too. I'm not like I got the money.
I could be driving a Bentley. I'm driving a fucking
Christ of three hundred. I'm not a fancy fucking guy
(15:37):
like you know. I like to stay to a nice hotel.
I like a good restaurant, you know. I mean, if
I'm going on a two hour flight, I'm flying coach
like I'm just I mean, I don't like, I'm just
not a fancy person. So the pay cup wasn't really
that hard for me. And frankly, like I rose quicker
than I thought I was going to, you know, just
a lot of I was a benefit of some luck.
(15:57):
I had a great relationship with my boss. I had
a great really relationship with my boss's boss. And I
had a crazy good ten year run until I told
the chever I Todd wanted to go fuck himself. Then
that run that rut.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
There listening generally speaking, that's frowned upon by employers just
just saying I'm I've never said that to a little myself.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It wasn't my uh uh, my shining moment of corporate subordination.
Put it that way, and you know, but I'll tell
you the truth. And it's weird to say this. On
one hand, I probably would have had a chance to
have a dream job that I never got. I probably
would have had a chance to maybe do even better
(16:43):
economically than I've done, you know, and and be in
a better place than I am now in terms of money.
But that day of standing up for myself in my
own mind and starting fresh with like a life that
wasn't as totally dominated by boxing, I wouldn't have I
wouldn't have wound up investing in Altuna part if that
(17:04):
didn't happen. I wouldn't have said to myself in two
thousand and two, I got to get one of these
for myself. I wouldn't have had that experience, and even
the experience of failing so badly for four or five
years in Norwich, but failing there and then being able
to like salvage the thing and go from the like
I mean to have the experience in your life of
(17:25):
going from the seller to the from going to the outhouse,
literally the shitter, the outhouse to the penthouse, to go
from an industrial park with no one coming in cold
weather in Norwich, you know, Connecticut, to attracting seven thousand
people a night in Richmond and creating a community that
(17:48):
really didn't exist before we got there. Like the best
experiences of my life, some of them wouldn't have happened
without that moment of personal weakness at maturity, Like I
don't regret what happened that day. Sometimes stuff works out
for the best.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Right MP your own deck for a one shotter with Lou.
It's what we do here at party time. But I
want to go back to something that Lou just said,
because I was wondering if you remember this. The night
that I actually met Lou Debella was opening night in Altoona, Pennsylvania,
and I distinctly remember Lou de Bella saying, this is
(18:32):
really really cool. I got to get one of these
for myself. And now fast forward all these years, Lou
Debella and I from meeting that day, like April the second,
two thousand and two, have been working together in Richmond
since two thousand and nine. I think that's that's just
a really cool story and another example of how in
(18:54):
party time world, the connectivity of it just goes from
one to another, just like our innings. Every all the
innings so far are all people that are connected with
each other and know each other, and that'll continue moving forward.
I want to ask a question because I want I
want Lou to tell the story. Tells a specific story. Then, MP,
you're gonna be up for a one shotter, Joe T
(19:16):
Are you having a good time? Listen? Okay, good, there
we go. Ess hell yeas in there by the way,
we're gonna have Hell you have merchandise coming out here
pretty soon too, and hell no merchandise. But looke in
you're boxing. If I say to you, and I've said
this to you before in your boxing career at HBO,
one fighter or one one boxer or one fight that
(19:40):
stands out to you, what is it?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Well, it's I get the answer, and it's all the
same thing, rightly, because it's it's actually two fighters, but
they both stand out to me because one of them
was my favorite fighter of all time and one of
them I promoted to the high points of his career.
Arturo Gaddy, who's may rest in peace, a friggin' legend
(20:06):
and the greatest blood and guts warrior in boxing's history
in my belief. And Mickey Ward, who was as much
of a sweetheart of a person and a warrior and
a just like a salt of the earth dude. That
it was really one of the privileges of my career
to get to work with him. But I got to
put together that most memorable trilogy. You know, Gaddy Ward Won,
(20:29):
gaddy Ward two, gaddy Ward three, and gaddy Ward One
was the single greatest fight I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Which fight was it? That they were side by side
in the hospital drinking beer together.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, that actually happened twice, but the first time it
happened was the real memorable one. By the way, by
the time they almost killed each other in the second
and third fights, they were already blood brothers. Like it
was the weirdest thing because they tried to ruin and
they did ruin each other. Arthur broke, I mean Nicky's
got CTE, Mickey's. Mickey had his ear blown ear drum
blown out in the third fight and and lost equilibrium.
(21:02):
I mean, Arthur died way before his time, very controversially,
and no one really knows the real story. But you know,
those guys paid their price for their their courage and
their their fighting spirit. There worried spirit. But by the
time that fight ended and they hugged in the ring.
(21:22):
After that first fight, they I'll never forget the referee
tossing a bottle of water to one of them, and
I don't remember which one it was because it didn't
matter because the other one would have done the same thing.
One of them shoots, happed the bottle of water down
and drinks it, hands it to the other guy after
they almost killed each other before they even know who
got to win, and they shared a bottle of water
(21:43):
and then got wasted in the emergency room where both
of them could have been hospitalized for several days because
they literally almost beat each other to death.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But that, but that that that that rumor or story
that they had beers in the emergency was true.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I thought I was having beers with them. But they
literally instructed someone to go out. They were sitting there.
They go, well, you know, we gotta we had a
neurologist coming in. We're gonna do cat scans. You're gonna
be here an hour or two. Like one of them
looks at the other, he goes, fuck, we're gonna be
here an hour two. Someone's gotta go get beer. And
they sent somebody out to a package store. Run and
they like they you know, we were in the middle
(22:22):
of Connecticut. They found the fucking place, and they came
back with a case of beer and they were drinking
beer in the emergency room. And I never said anything
like it, but I mean, but that was also like
it was one of those nights where I mean, first
of all, I had never seen two guys put caution
to throw, caution to the to the wind, and and
(22:44):
two guys who almost appeared to be mirror images of themselves,
like the two of the most courageous, blooding gutskies you
could ever meet, got in there and they almost killed
each other. And they knew it was beautiful like it ended,
and they knew what happened. It was almost like it
didn't even matter who got to win that night, though
though it really was important in a way that it
(23:06):
went to the underdog and went to Nicky, because it's
sort of created that whole trilogy like atmosphere, like that
whole like build up, Like the favorite didn't win the fight,
the undergoing won the fight, right, but it was tremendous,
you know, And that was the most memorable fight to me,
the most memorable and the most memorable fighters you know
(23:26):
you said something earlier, man, and it's I listened to
your podcast. So it's really the premise. What's life about? Ultimately,
it's about how we make relationship relationships and how you
make a relationship. Know. One of the things you didn't
mention earlier, but it was sort of how did I
how did I come to you in Altuna? Well, the
guy I met why, I didn't even like my first
day of college. I thought he was the horses ass,
(23:47):
Chuck Greenberg. We became like frenemies for most of our
first year of law school.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Like we were like he said, he said, frenemies for
those of you out there and parting Townland frenemies.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, and then the frenemies became more friendship than the
enemy part, like the frenity thing became more of a friendship.
But I was the first investor when Chuck said I
want to own a minor league baseball team. I was
his first I bought his first unit and that was
in Altuna. That's why I was their opening day. I
met you through and I was and I was I
was the GM there, So that's how we met. I
(24:20):
met you threw a guy I met when I was
eighteen years old, right, So, like, it's all about relationships,
you know. And you know what, whoever has the most
fucking fun before they die wins. It's not about money.
Money can't buy you health, money doesn't buy you friends.
Money doesn't money and buy you a woman, make you
buy a good one, right, you know? It really is
(24:53):
about It's all about relationships and and that's what the
journey is, man, That's what it's all about.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Lou what's the fight you had to work the hardest
to save and had you do it?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know? It's funny. I don't. I couldn't really. There's
so many that I had had to work really hard
to say, But the funny part is the ones I
wanted to make the most never happen.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, Like like what Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bow would
have been one of the greatest heavyweight fights ever to happen,
and it never happened. And it was so crazy because
they were completely natural opponents and then just one thing
led to another and it didn't happen. I really, that's
not a question I can answer. That is I haven't
(25:43):
really think about it. Well, curious, I'm gonna be honest
with you too. I was. I never really viewed one
fight as being like, you know, it's funny because as
boxing sort of weekend US programming over the course of years,
and I think it's unquestionably it's weakened over the last
general should over the last couple of decades. It was
really important that Mayweather fort Pacal it should have happened
(26:06):
five years earlier, and the fact that it didn't really
fucked up the fight. And I look all the time,
it's so consistent in boxing that the right fight often
doesn't happen that I can't really point to one fight
I put together and said I worked so hard. I
worked really hard to create a new series. I worked hard.
I had a premise that people boxing is less strong
(26:28):
star driven than most sports. I really believe that. I
believe people want to see people go to war. People
want to see a triumph the spirit. It's not always
the greatest athlete who wins. It could be the guy
with the bigger heart, the guy with the more punch tolerance,
the guy whose bulls hang lower. I mean, it's not
all about the best athlete. And I really wanted to
(26:51):
create a series that was less star driven where every
fight would be World War Three. And that series existed
for a couple of decades. It was called Back Singing
After Dark and people still talk about it and and
getting that series approved was did a lot of things.
Say even though that series doesn't exist, even though HBO
Boxing doesn't exist any longer, there were things I accomplished
(27:14):
with that series that will never change. Right now, one
of the biggest, among the biggest superstars in the sport,
there's a little featherweight from Japan, a little hundred and
twenty two pound fighter from Japan known as the Monster.
You never saw Japanese fighters, or foreign fighters or African fighters,
or you know before before Boxing after Dark, you rarely
saw them. You didn't see you never saw midgets or
(27:38):
excuse me for the pejorative little people. But when I
say little people, I'm not being pejorative. I mean the
weight classes where the fighters are. When twenty six, one,
twenty two, when eighteen win, fifteen one twelve fly weight,
you never saw those guys on television in the eighties.
You just did it. And now the little men are
little giants to the sport and frank their punch output
(28:01):
the way they fight, the ferocity, the tenacity, the number
of punches they can throw in around compared to the
big guys, the little guys are a lot more fun.
And and now everybody's onto the fact that the little
guys are a lot more fun and some of the
biggest superstars in boxing are little men, right and and
and then also I think being able to be part
(28:24):
of the movement to bring women into into boxing has
been something I'm proud of. So it's not really an
individual fight, it's more like some of the little causes.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I've Yeah, I'll ask him a question. I know he
can answer them. Parney, what was Don King?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Like? Oh my god, that's a fucking It's on podcasts, man,
I should do a podcast just to tell fucking stories
of Don You know, it's very interesting. There's a big
documentary that's in the works and it's not with King's authorization,
but it's like basically almost produced that I think my
interview is going to be the core of a lot
of it. You know, a lot of people villifi King
(29:02):
and demonized King, and oh King took advantage of fighters,
and King was a bad guy, and King was this,
and King was that dude. King was an og before
there was a major league manager in baseball, before there
was a black owner in any sport like he was
a major force. I don't give Yeah, he went to prison,
you know, he didn go to Princeton. He went to prison, right.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
And he didn't go to Princeton. He went to prison.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
But I'll tell you this, he's one of the most
resourceful people I've ever known. He's one of the most
He's one of the smartest technically under educated people or
uneducated people that you will ever meet. And he's actually
fairly educated because he's voracious reader. He's uh, he's he's
a fascinating cat man with a lot of components. I'm
(29:52):
not gonna sit there and tell you where he's going
or who's judging him. We're not judging him. But I'm
gonna tell you he's one of the goats, you know.
I'm gonna tell you that he and Arab were forces
in nature, and that King as a pt barnum kind
of carnival barking, big personality promoter that almost unmatched. There's
(30:12):
not an event he ever touched and didn't get bigger
because he was involved, particularly when he was in his prime,
great promoter you know, I'm not judging him as a
human being. There are a lot of things I would
have done differently than him. When I write my book,
there's a story I don't feel free really to tell
it right now. I'll tell it after he's gone. But
he and I had very serious conversations a couple of
(30:33):
times wasted about life where I you know he for
when I was in HBO. We didn't do business with
him for a while. He had a falling out with
my boss. He was he had an exclusive arrangement with
his starfighters with Showtime when I was at HBO, and
I had like a giant blow up picture of his
mug shot on my office door. And this is what
(30:55):
I was an HBO executive. So everybody who was a
big shot in media or tea or boxing that I
was dealing with in those days, you couldn't see that
picture if you came into my office. And of course
it became like folklore. King knew that his mugshot was
on my door, and he hated that fact. Hated it
and hated it, and he thought that I was sort
(31:16):
of cock blocking him at HBO, even though he was
already blocked, had nothing to done that wasn't when he
was when he got cock blocked. My cock wasn't big
enough to block him.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
So, uh doesn't mat.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I was like, you had my fucking mugshot on about
your office for ten years. How disrespectful, I said, dog,
you were a good looking young guy there, if that's
any consolations. But we weren't through business together and whatever.
And we had a very long conversation about life and
what and I told you know, and and the truth
of the matter is is I don't hate him, I
don't judge him. I admire him in many ways. I
(31:57):
also there were things ways he lived and things he
did I simply never would have done in my life.
It wouldn't have been part of my compass, my directional
compass in terms of life. However, he's a remarkable only
in America man. He says he's the king of only
in America, but he is only in America. Only in America.
(32:19):
Can sud he could go into a boardman. Look at
like this man was was as close to business associate
and friend as Donald Trump had for years and years. Right,
I mean, you know, now Don's ninety something and he's
you know, he's in the twilight of his life. But
but you know, even twenty twenty five, thirty years ago,
King was a monster. He was a personality. Frankly, he
(32:42):
was a bigger celebrity than almost every fighter he had,
other than maybe Mike Tyson. King was the bigger celebrity
than all of them. King used to marvel at that
everyone in these motherfucker's going to be gone, but I'm
still going to be here, you know, like he knew
and he will and he was and he was and
he was at the top of his game for decades.
(33:05):
And the same is true of Bob Aaron Man. Both
of them are gangsters, pure fucking whips gang I mean,
and I say that would love conadmiration, you know what
I mean, I'm not you know, I'm not talking about
criminality now. I'm just talking about balls and resolve and
and and and uh, both of them still out there.
I mean, Arab's still running one of the biggest companies
(33:27):
in boxing at ninety three, King, who really like his
company's more of a one man. You know, Arab created
a big sort of corporate boxing company. You know, Kings
was always King's company, right, and there's only you know,
you're ninety four, Like, look at poor Joe Biden. You
hit a certain point in your life for age and
you're just not able to do what you used to
(33:47):
do anymore. Right, But both of them are monsters, man
and there. And I'll tell you something I had an
experienced recently. I was with Arab we had dinner and
had a couple of fucking vodkas, and Aaron pulls out
his phone and he had like, not knowing the zoom
or what the fuck it is, really, someone put them
on a zoom with King it was there. Both of
them have just had their birthdays, like their ninety seconds
(34:10):
or whatever around the same time, and someone put them
on a zoom call and unknowingly Aram taped the zoom call, right,
so he actually has the zoom call because he accidentally
taped it. And he shows us his zoom and it's
the two of them, and for most of three minutes,
all they're doing is like how lingoln laughter. I'm not
even sure they could hear one another about how everybody
(34:30):
else is fucking dead and they're still around, how they
outlived all their enemies and haters. Yeah, and they're still around.
And I got the biggest kick out of that. You know,
that's great guy, not not my role model, but at
the same time an incredibly remarkable human being, an incredibly skilled, resourceful,
(34:54):
smart person, and the Trailblazers because he was, you know,
one of the most power powerful figure he and Arab
in an entire sport as a black man who went
to prison at a time where black men weren't managing
sports teams, warrant general managers, warrant owners. Whatever you want
to say about Don King, it's much more whoever wants
(35:15):
to cast to get him or vilify him. It's a
much more complicated story, right, And I'm not endorsing everything
he's done, but I'm saying he's a fascinating guy.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, we got about ten minutes left in parting time here.
We haven't even taught baseball yet, but I want to
see keep going on boxing because you talked about boxing
and baseball as your two loves. You mentioned Muhammad Ali.
One of the many things that I admire about you
is the relationships that you have all across the world.
You went to Muhammad Ali's funeral. Can you tell the
(35:45):
party time listeners the story you told me about after
the funeral. What happened at the corner of the street.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Oh the butterfly. Yeah, yeah, you know what, I can't
I still can't believe that that happened. You know, well
everybody knows flowing like a butterfly's thing I could be.
And then the butterfly and the b were sort of
symbols to Ali fans or Ali. In fact, we we
did a the guys that worked for me were kind
(36:15):
it up to you or me, and we did an
Ali memorial jersey and had a butterfly and be on
it and the whole thing with a bunch of friends. Joe,
that's great jerseys. I still wear mine. It actually fits.
We uh, were walking down the street and there's this
(36:36):
beautiful monarch butterfly that looks like it's dead on the ground.
And a guy named John Saracino, who is a very
well known former boxing writers. I think he's retired now,
I think, but he was a writer for USA today.
He was one of the big writers in the nineties
early two thousands, and he was a friend of Hobbit's.
Wiley Matthews, who just got into the Boxing Hall of
(36:59):
Famer few weeks ago, who was a writer with the
New York Post, a former head of ESPN Sports, was
there with us, and we're walking down the street on
our way to the motorcade like we had, you know,
the motorcade that was gonna lead, you know, going through
We decided we wanted to see the parade and they
(37:19):
was they were they did a motorcade through Louisville. So
we walked to where the motorcate was and Saratina puts
this foot that and he almost steps on this monarch
butterfly and and he looks at this and the butterfly
down on the ground and he says, man like, I mean, wow,
look at this beautiful as butterflies, but I think it's dead.
And and uh he picks up the butterfly. And I
(37:42):
don't know like where this comes from, but he picks
up the butterfly that looks like it's dead in his hand,
and it's this big, gorgeous monarch butterfly, like big, like
the guy like this is Saratoo was about six three,
and the thing was like taking up his whole fucking
hand and uh he goes fly Ali and the butterfly
takes off from his aunt and this girl who was
(38:06):
walking with us somebody's girlfriend or wife who was walking
with us started crying. Yeah, but that butterfly took off
and flew away, and he said, he said, Fly Ali, Fly, Ali.
I was.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
I believe in that stuff. That's why I want you
to tell the story. And Joe T. I know, Joe
T and I we've had losses in our family lately.
We both believe in that side.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I still, I mean, I mean, honestly, you can't
see it, but the fucking hairs are standing, yea, because
I never will forget that moment. Yeah, you know, and
and uh and it's funny but I think someone had
it on video and I might have had a copy
of it at one point on my phone, and I
think my phone was I didn't have it backed up
or whatever, but someone had. I mean, it was so
(38:53):
remarkable to say, look, you know, how many people in
life have a hero that's like transcended to everyone. Like
I had nobody in a hero in my life and
my sensibility in my mind that ever came near Ali.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And so what was it like when you first met him,
Like the first time you ever met him, were you
like tongue tied or like, was it just he was
he treated Janice, and like, sometimes I haven't had this experience.
But sometimes people say it's not great to meet your heroes.
I might have always been great when I met him,
he but.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
I wouldn't by the way, Summer mine have have failed me,
but Ali didn't. And when I met him, I met him,
and I met Lonnie, his wife, and Mohammed was already
had Parkinson's. He was already, you know, somewhat ill, but
he was all there. His marbles were always all there,
and he still did magic tricks, and he he like
I mean, he still was communicative and and he was
(39:48):
incredibly kind to me. And it was so obvious to
him how much I loved, Like I couldn't really hide
what he meant to me. It was so obvious even
in a room or sit there with his family. And
then strangely, like I wound up getting a sign He
wrote a book and it was written through time water,
and he did a book tour that was basically the
(40:12):
book tour was sponsored by HBO, and I wound up
sort of accompanying Mohammad and his wife and the author
of the other author. The co author of this book
was called Healing On Like a book tour and in
certain appearances. So I got to spend like a number
of weeks and days with the Ali and his family, right,
(40:35):
I meant, And I and I got, over the course
of years to know him and his family, and you know,
to get to meet your idol, your hero, and he
doesn't let you down.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Right, And that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
And I it was a story I told I think
I put it online the night Ali died, but it's
one of my greatest memories of Ali. I was going
to a play in Broadway, and I was going to
meet somebody who was already at the theater. And I
was walking from the HBO offices on sixth Avenue and
(41:14):
forty second Street to the theater. And I'm a couple
of blocks away from my theater, but I see a
giant like gathering of people on the sidewalk, like hundreds
of people. And as I get closer, I see it's
hundreds of people lining up to get autographs from Muhammad Ali,
who was autographing these little pamphlets that say about explaining
(41:37):
Islam to people that are and aren't Muslim, you know,
and what is islab about? It isn't you know? And
it was it was signing pamphlets, autographing them to you know,
two people, And I said to him, you know, I
walked by. I said, hey, Mohammad, how are you? Shook
(41:59):
my hand, gave me a pamphlet. You know anything autograph
by Ali is you know, I'll take an extra one
or two of those anyway, And you're considering Islamo and
Scase And I went to the Broadway play and I'm
leaving the play two hours or twenty minutes later, and
there's still this commotion and block or two away from
(42:20):
the theater I'm at, and there's still a big crowd
on the street, and I'm like, this can't be because
at this point he was not one hundred percent well.
He already had some manifestations of Parkinson's. It was a
summer like warm summer night. He had been standing there
for three hours. He was on three hours of signing pamphlets.
(42:41):
And I said, I gotta walk over and say hello.
I walk back, I say hello, I go, what do
you You've been out here for three like I saw
you two hours twenty minutes ago. And he looks at
me and he goes, I'm doing the right thing. I
want to go to heaven, and that was a lot
of what motivated him in his like later years to
(43:03):
be as like there like even though he was sick,
even though he wasn't doing interviews and able to communicate
so easily with people. Connecting with people became like an
obsession to him because he thought it was his best
He really believed this. He thought it was his best
(43:24):
route to God, good way to live.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
MP. I want to I want to close by giving
you a one shotter with with Lou Joe T. You
have anything you want to say and say, hell yeah,
hell no, You've done a great job so far. To Lou,
I've got four I've got four passes to Parney's Pub,
and you're allowed to bring four people to Parney's Pub,
Dad or alive? Who are you bringing four people to
(43:53):
Parney's Pub to bang down beers? Joe T.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Roberta, Okay, Bruce Sprigsteen.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Okay, that's I wasn't expecting that, but all right, I
thought you were gonna give me a musician, but I
think it was gonna be Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
And Bruce Bruce Sprigsteen. Uh, well you know what. I also,
I never met him, like if I had a bucket
list right now would be to get a beer with
Springsteen and just shoot the ship, you know, and and
also some of the ship that he's talked about a
little bit. I mean he's been obviously, this is a
brilliant guy who's accomplished, like like Mount Rushmore shit, who's
always battled depression and had his own issues. Like I
(44:35):
think he'd be a cool person to really shoot the
ship with. Like I really enjoyed what I went through
his Broadway thing and got a little up close to
personal with that Jesus Christ More. I'm bizarre, but I
think he'd be pretty cool to know what Jesus was like. Yeah,
we would never run out of wine either. That'd be awesome. Man.
You never go.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, we have to give Joe t something else to say.
You would be able to say, hell yeah, hell no.
But I kind of liked the idea of having somebody
around that can turn water into wine. I'm down with that,
all right. So that's good. Okay, we got we got
we got Roberto Clemeny, Bruce Springs team and Jesus Christ And.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
I'm going to put in uh uh Martin Luther kick
good grew all right.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
All right, and pay one shot your last question for
Louda Belle. As we wrap up, we haven't We didn't
even talk.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
We got to talk a little baseball loo, and I
know Parney's not going to do it, so I'll tee
you up. What has Richmond and the team and the
city come to mean to you over these years?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
You know, it's so weird because like it's I'm not
someone that spent months there at a time, or like
came in for long trips and whatever. But at this point,
i have so many relationships there and friends there, and
I've so much invested. Hey, I want to tell you something.
I have never had any endeavor in my life that
I have worked on for fifteen years. I've never had
(45:58):
any project, any any particular thing that I really tiresly
put my heart and my money and my soul and
my effort into doing in my life. Getting this new
ballpark after fifteen years is such like when I see
that struggle going to the ground, there's going to be
(46:18):
a weight that's taken off me because Richmond, like, we
deserve the love we get, but we get a lot
of love, and the people there deserve a new ballpark
and they deserve us to stay like they deserve what's happening.
Like I truly really believe that the biggest losers the
people who would have been hurt the worst if the
(46:40):
squirrels and the politicians and the people of Richmond weren't
able to make this ballpark happen. The people that would
have hurt the worst are the people. I think that
everybody involved wants to help them up. It's the average
citizen to the average person in Richmond.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
I think we are a.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Quality of life business more than almost any other business.
And I tell I feel about baseball in general, like
I think baseball is part of the fabric of America
in a way that's simply different than any other sport.
And that's why despite a Boxing Hall of Fame and
a career where I know everybody in the sport of
(47:21):
boxing and I'm god willing, I've left the legacy that
people will remember my first love is the sport is baseball.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Well, and I don't mean to interrupt, I know we're
trying to wrap up, but MP I went to the
Boxing Hall of Fame and Joe Ta was in upstate
New York. I was really proud and happy that lou
thinks enough of me that he invited me to be
up there, and Lou is correct. I watched how people
look at Lou Debella. I watch how people hugged and
(47:51):
high fived him. And let me tell you something. The
International Boxing Hall of Fame induction ceremony, that's where Good
Fellas meets New Jackson Ity meets du Dynasty. I mean,
there was every all, all all people were there and
Lou was the melting pot and that was really cool
for my friend. And you know, as and as I said,
we're closing up here in a few minutes, but you know,
(48:13):
we're all about relationships at partie time, and Lou and
I are employee employer employee employer employee. But when we
say goodbye, a lot of times we say we love
each other. And that's that's to me, what life is
all about. To do things with people that you love
and you care about. You know, Joe T's always with
(48:33):
me everywhere. I love Jo T.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
And I'm gonna I'm end up by saying this part
because I'm gonna be repetitive because I said this earlier.
But I'm really focused on this these days. Whoever has
the most fucking fun when they're here wits and and
and the way you do that is with friends, with family,
with people you care about. And it's all about relationships.
(48:57):
It's all about relationships. It's a short run we're on.
We don't know when it ends. Have as much, have
as many good times as you can make memories. And
that's what you know. I have a lot of great
memories about of everything I've been working. I mean baseball memories,
have a lot of great boxing memories. And I've been
blessed man and I at the moment, I, you know,
for all the aggravation that all the bitching and money
(49:19):
that comes out of me, you know, I'm pretty much grateful.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Well, we're grateful that you spend some time with us
on party time. Little You're a big part of my life.
You're a big part of my family's life, and we
all love you collectively as a as a family. MP
Any parting shot says, we let Wyatt wind down inning
number five. We got some exciting shows lined up, So
always subscribe, Tell your friends, tell your family, hell, tell
(49:46):
every people that you hate to part time.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
You got to do an NFL party time, you got
you gotta do a pre season party time. You got
to grab Bettis and a few of your NFL buddies
and and uh, you know, shoot, hit some over enders.
Let's go. Yeah, I read the word.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
I've lived in Richmond for seventeen years now. I've lived
here within without the squirrels. Life's better with the squirrels.
Thank you both for making that happen.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Thank you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
And Pete, thank you so much. Another inning of party
time coming to a close. Joe T. Did you enjoy
loud Debella in inning number five? Hell yeah? All right, everybody,
that's okay as claus as hell yeah, get the hell
out of here. And also I want to finish by saying,
we had any number four Tony Beasley where we almost
(50:32):
made it through the entire show without being explicit no chance.
We got through it today with the sweet loud Debella.
I think we might have set a record for f
bombs today. So congratulations.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Wait, fuck is a very very very versatile word. Fucky.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Thank you, everybody, have fun, Go nuts,
And this inning of Parney Time and the Party Time
podcast is presented by West Broad Honda, corner of Broad
Street and Glenside Drive, serving Richmond in the surrounding area
since nineteen seventy eight. They sell more Hondas each year
than any of the other Honda dealers in Richmond. Number
one volume dealer in Central Virginia, long history of supporting
(00:21):
the Richmond community. The Page Auto Group currently works with
the Flying Squirrels are beloved Flying Squirrels VSU Athletics, MS
Society and the Special Olympics. Perfect balance of inventory available
so you can find the Honda you want today. Looking
for an electric vehicle, West Broad Honda has the all
new twenty twenty four Honda prologues, Honda's first EV with
(00:45):
total range under three hundred miles. You can listen to
four Partey Time episodes. They also have great offers on
every model, including two point nine percent financing on the
Honda CRV and Accord and zero percent on the Honda Ridgeline.
West Broad Honda is your home for your next new
Honda or certified pre on. Honda also a large selection
(01:09):
of non Honda pre owned vehicles. Wes Broad Honda you
can become a customer for life. Jo T West Broad Honda,
Hell yeah, all right, what time is it? Everybody? It
is Party Time? Aning number one, Will the Throw, Clark
(01:33):
Aning number two, Steve Klein edited version any number three,
Carl and Sam Ravich Aning number four, World Champion Person,
World Champion Texas Ranger, Tony Beasley, and today all about relationships.
(01:53):
Party Time Podcast. We have Lou Dabella Boxing Hall of Fame,
I League Baseball owner, but he's on here because he's
my pal. I've got Joe T behind me. Joe T
are excited about lou Debella. Hell yeah, and MP on
the mic representing Parney's Pub Club, Sweet Loudabella. We have
(02:17):
no idea where are the conversation's gonna go, But welcome
to Parney Time. Baby.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Most of our conversations we don't know where the hell
they're gonna go. Party That's like that's been part for
the course for a lot of years. Bro.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So well, that's really that's really true, And I really
don't know where to start. MP. Welcome to Party Time.
We missed you. I think the last episode you did vacation.
That's not that's not allowed on Party Time. We're all
VA vacations have to be approved.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I held up. I held up the pub club standard
by continuing to drink though, so don't worry about me.
I maintained public club exacting standards at all times. Fired
up for lou Debella. I want to hear some boxing stories, man.
I remember Show Time HBO back in the day. I'm
excited to hear about all that and both and both
of them are out of the boxing businesses.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I know, I know, yeah, you want to talk about
your life, work getting unraveled and fucking collapsing. But you know,
there is the I was the king of premium cable boxing,
of which there is none anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Stay hot, baby, Stay hot. Well let's start right there.
Uh you're you're You're from New York. You live in
New York. I know a lot of your stories. We're
gonna pull them out of you. How did it all
start with boxing? You know?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It started with baseball actually and boxing. I mean it
started at the same time. And it's sort of like, look,
if you want to look at a kid's dreams, and
then you turn around and you own a couple of
baseball teams and you're in the boxing Hall of Fame.
When your two favorite sports when you were six seven
years old were baseball and boxing, right, and and that's
(03:59):
how it was for me. I it started like my
grandfathers watched two sports. They were Italian immigrants. They barely
one of them barely spoke English, the other one spoke
English you know better. But they were Italian immigrants. They
they knew soccer, but there was no soccer at that
point ever on TV in the United States, and they knew.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
By god, unless it was still that fucking away.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I love soccer, actually, but that's a whole lot discussion.
I love soccer, but I would like I would watch
fights with my grandfathers and I would watch baseball with
my grandfather's because one of the first things they did
when they got to America was they embraced baseball. It
was the American pass time, it was the American game,
and they learned that sport. So I grew up with
my like like baseball and boxing as my first loves.
(04:45):
They're okay, I'm born in nineteen sixty, so by the
time I'm paying attention to sports since the mid to
late sixties, Who am I watching Muhammad Ali? And like
like Muhammad Ali to me, I had never seen an
athlete that was that good looking. I'd never heard an
athlete that sounded that smart, that funny, that quick. And
(05:06):
I was like in love, like I saw Ali and
like there was my hero, right, and now I had
a boxing hero. And then it was like Willie Mays,
Roberto Clementi and Tom Seaver. That was like my baseball
like like holy trinity, you know, for me as a kid, right,
it was like Clemente May's SEVERER and SEVERER. Because my
(05:32):
relatives were Dodger fans, Brooklyn Dodger fans, The Yankees were
not an option. The you know, the only option I
had was to be a Met fan. I was raised
a Met fan, and I'm still a Met fan, right.
But it was baseball and boxing and those were my loves.
And I knew pretty early on as a kid that
(05:53):
I wanted to work in sports or entertainment. I think
I knew that, like when I was in grammar school. Honestly,
like I wanted. I knew I wasn't good enough athlete
to play one of the big sports. I knew I
certainly didn't want to fight. I mean, I you know,
actually I was one of those kids that started out
really tiny, got beaten up a lot until one day
I grew like eight inches in a year, and all
(06:14):
of a sudden, I beat the shit out of one
of my bullies. And then life changed a little bit.
But I wasn't a fighter. I was much more of
like a you know, I was. I was sort of
a mellow kid. I was a smart kid, and I
wanted to be in sports. I wanted to be have
that kind of life. I probably, to be honest with you,
also always wanted to have people know who I was
(06:34):
and and and uh, I'm not gonna bullshit too. That
was something that was always like something that thought would
be cool, right, and and then it sort of went
from there. I went to I was a really good student.
I went to Harvard Law. I went to all scholarship
high school. It was an all boys high school. If
I could have done that again, believe me, I fucking
would have changed that. But you know, I went to
(06:55):
an all boys high school emphasis on academics. I wound
up going to tough Universe City, which seemed really easy
compared to high school. And there were a lot of
chicks around, so it was a lot more fun. But
it tough. I really had been so prepared, Like my
high school was like a Vietnam of high schools. Like
you went there and it was like being in college
(07:16):
when you were a kid, and there were no girls around,
and it was super competitive and everybody was on a scholarship.
And one hundred and forty kids started in my class
and one hundred graduated. The other forty got kicked out,
and most of them became more successful than the guys
I went to high school with. But that's a whole
other story, because they got kicked out and became number
one in valedictorians of their normal high school classes. But
(07:38):
I got out of high school. I went to Tufts,
I wound up doing really well. I got into Harvard
Law School. I didn't really want to be a lawyer.
I never wanted to be a lawyer. I just knew that,
with my Brooklyn accent, that the Harvard degree would be
a really nice thing and it would legitimize me. And
I thought it back in my head that Harvard degree
will helped me get into sports and entertainment. That was
(07:59):
always my agenda. And it took me and then and
then that's that actually happened in HBO. Right. Yeah, But
it happened like it was lots slower than I thought.
Like I went to Harvard, I had all these great grades.
I was like, I was president of Sports and Entertainment
Society at Harvard law School. Like I'm a pretty pretty
good bullshit artist, I'm well spoken. Like I thought I
would like catch on like wildfire and immediately get out
(08:22):
of law school and come up with a job in sports. No,
I slaved like a young lawyer at a big New
York firm for most of five years. And then I
decided that I just wasn't happy, Like I really wasn't happy,
and I was making a shitload of money. Now I
was happy with the money. I was happy with the
lifestyle of money. Let me lead lead as as a
young guy. But in order to get into sports, I
(08:47):
was gonna have to take an enormous pay cut. And
I realized that well, actually, initially, maybe pick I wouldn't
have been that enormous. I interviewed for a job to
be the general counsel of the New York Games. There
was a there we go, here we go. I interviewed
for a job to be the general counsel of the
New York Yankees, and I went through a series of interviews.
(09:10):
I interviewed with various members of the Yankees front office,
including a very famous guy, Arthur Richmond.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You know the name.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I'm sure Arthur Richmond worked with Stime brenderverand all those guys.
And I interviewed him. He loved me and we had
a great interview. And then I was I was one
of three or four people I think that was going
to get to meet the boss, right, and I had
an interview scheduled to go and meet the boss. I
was working at the law firm. Frankly, the law firm
I worked. I was a great firm who was called
Sullivan and Cromwell when the best in the country. They
(09:37):
knew my passion was sports, like they knew it, right.
They liked me. I worked hard, but they knew my
passion with sports, and I literally didn't lie to them.
I said, I have an interview today to go with
the Yikees, and they like, good luck on godspeed, right,
So I took the day off. I'm all dressed. They
got my fucking suit on. I have my my oversized
cell phone from back then because the cell phones were used.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Is it in a bag? Was it in a bag.
I think it was.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It was like the next generation. It was like it
was too big to put in your pocket, but you
didn't need a bag. You sort of carry it around.
And then brick and then I had I had my
resume in my pocket and I'm walked, literally walking out
of my apartment and the apartment landline rings. This is
nineteen eighty nine when people still had landlines, and my
(10:25):
landline rang, and it was Stein, Why I wasn't born yet?
Why I wasn't born yet, but I have underwear older
than you? Whytt the phone rings? I pick it up.
It's Steinwander secretary. She's all sheepish, like she's a nice
lady because I'd spoken to her before, and she's like
sheepish as hell. And I'm like, is there a problem?
(10:47):
Is there something wrong? And she's like, well, you're gonna
think so I'm like, okay, So what she says, Well,
the boss looked at your resume and you're in your
twenties and he just doesn't want to hire a kid
to be general counsel. But that was his message, like
you're just too young for the job, so sorry, but
he's eliminating you. Before your final interview, and I was
(11:10):
like crushed and like crushed to the point that I
wasn't in tears, but like I sighed like like like
someone was dying in front of me. And and you
know she heard his sigh of like of exasperation. And
the lady goes, I don't know if this helps you,
but the guy I think is going to take the
job was close to getting a big job at HBO Sports.
(11:33):
Now this lady has no idea that I love boxing. Wow,
she's And when I say, like I love boxing, I
love boxing. I knew as as a young like I
knew everything about boxing, Like I'm a baseball fan, but
as party can tell you, I don't know everything about baseball.
I still sit around at learn shit and tell stories
with people and and and and like absorb stuff. And
(11:54):
I've been around baseball for twenty years. But I'm not
a baseball But I was a boxing guy before I
ever started working in boxing. So like I knew that
there was nobody else.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Out there that.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
HBO could interview that would know more than me. Right,
So I just immediately when I heard job at each
Other Sports, I'm like, thanks Boom, hanging up the phone.
This is pre nine to eleven. It's nineteen eighty nine, right,
so you still could walk past security and get into
any building you wanted. And basically I snuck past the
security desk at the HBO building on forty second Street,
(12:27):
and I walked up to the general Counsel's office, the
chief lawyer for HBO at the time, because the job
that they were hiring was a legal job. It was
like the general counsel for the sports division. And I
walked to the guy's secretary, and I was a good
looking young kid. I was like, at that point in time,
I still had an ego, and I was like, you know,
I was like basically talking up the secretary to see
(12:50):
if I could get like I did everything short of
asking this woman out, like like you know, to try
to see if I could get into to the guy's office.
I guess I heard me through the door and thought
it was so funny how hard I was working over
his secretary that he called me into the office to
talk to him. And the first thing he said to
(13:11):
me is like, yeah, like, I'm about to make an
offer to somebody else. Now. He didn't know that I
knew that the guy that was getting the offer wasn't
going to take it, and the guy didn't take it.
The guy who was going to get that offer went
to the New York Yankees, right, but he didn't know
that the guy wasn't gonna take it. But I said
to him, I didn't want to play that. That's rude. Anyway,
(13:32):
I said to him, you're hiring the wrong guy. And
I said, well, you're pretty cocky. I said, no, I'm
just hiring the wrong guy. You have my resume, Like
I went to Harvard and did really well. I went
to Tufts and did really well. But no one on
this earth knowes boxing better than me, other than maybe
Seth Abraham. And Seth Abraham was that the president of
HBO Sports and the guy as the lawyer I would
(13:53):
have been working for. Anyway, what wound up happening is
like he liked me and he sent me up to
Seth Abraham's off I spent two hours in Seth Abraham's office.
He was a guy from Brooklyn. He was a big,
huge Seth's favorite sport was also baseball. We spent most
of the next two hours, not only most of it
(14:14):
probably talking about baseball. And then when we got into
the boxing discussion. It was so clear to Seth that that,
like my ridiculous, stupid encyclopedic knowledge of boxing at that
period of time was like insane, and he was like
he called the other lawyer and he's like, I think
this kid may be the fucking guy. But it was
(14:36):
interesting because the biggest hesitation was I was going to
have to take a pay cut to about thirty percent
of what I was making twenty five percent or what
I was making. And they couldn't believe someone would want
to pay take that kind of pay You probably thought.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
That wasn't that big of a pay cut for doing
something you wanted to do, right.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh, I thought it was an enormous pay cut party,
But that big said, though, you know what, man, I
I was making this money, and I wasn't happy. I
wasn't happy. I wasn't happy, right, And I think like
I had already in my mid twenties to late twenties,
came to the conclusion and it ain't about money like
(15:14):
I already had made. And I was also a bit
of an ego maniac, so I thought I would have
a rise at the company, and I thought that the
money would come up. I did you know, but like
I think you know this because you don't be a
long time too. I'm not like I got the money.
I could be driving a Bentley. I'm driving a fucking
Christ of three hundred. I'm not a fancy fucking guy
(15:37):
like you know. I like to stay to a nice hotel.
I like a good restaurant, you know. I mean, if
I'm going on a two hour flight, I'm flying coach
like I'm just I mean, I don't like, I'm just
not a fancy person. So the pay cup wasn't really
that hard for me. And frankly, like I rose quicker
than I thought I was going to, you know, just
a lot of I was a benefit of some luck.
(15:57):
I had a great relationship with my boss. I had
a great really relationship with my boss's boss. And I
had a crazy good ten year run until I told
the chever I Todd wanted to go fuck himself. Then
that run that rut.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
There listening generally speaking, that's frowned upon by employers just
just saying I'm I've never said that to a little myself.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It wasn't my uh uh, my shining moment of corporate subordination.
Put it that way, and you know, but I'll tell
you the truth. And it's weird to say this. On
one hand, I probably would have had a chance to
have a dream job that I never got. I probably
would have had a chance to maybe do even better
(16:43):
economically than I've done, you know, and and be in
a better place than I am now in terms of money.
But that day of standing up for myself in my
own mind and starting fresh with like a life that
wasn't as totally dominated by boxing, I wouldn't have I
wouldn't have wound up investing in Altuna part if that
(17:04):
didn't happen. I wouldn't have said to myself in two
thousand and two, I got to get one of these
for myself. I wouldn't have had that experience, and even
the experience of failing so badly for four or five
years in Norwich, but failing there and then being able
to like salvage the thing and go from the like
I mean to have the experience in your life of
(17:25):
going from the seller to the from going to the outhouse,
literally the shitter, the outhouse to the penthouse, to go
from an industrial park with no one coming in cold
weather in Norwich, you know, Connecticut, to attracting seven thousand
people a night in Richmond and creating a community that
(17:48):
really didn't exist before we got there. Like the best
experiences of my life, some of them wouldn't have happened
without that moment of personal weakness at maturity, Like I
don't regret what happened that day. Sometimes stuff works out
for the best.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Right MP your own deck for a one shotter with Lou.
It's what we do here at party time. But I
want to go back to something that Lou just said,
because I was wondering if you remember this. The night
that I actually met Lou Debella was opening night in Altoona, Pennsylvania,
and I distinctly remember Lou de Bella saying, this is
(18:32):
really really cool. I got to get one of these
for myself. And now fast forward all these years, Lou
Debella and I from meeting that day, like April the second,
two thousand and two, have been working together in Richmond
since two thousand and nine. I think that's that's just
a really cool story and another example of how in
(18:54):
party time world, the connectivity of it just goes from
one to another, just like our innings. Every all the
innings so far are all people that are connected with
each other and know each other, and that'll continue moving forward.
I want to ask a question because I want I
want Lou to tell the story. Tells a specific story. Then, MP,
you're gonna be up for a one shotter, Joe T
(19:16):
Are you having a good time? Listen? Okay, good, there
we go. Ess hell yeas in there by the way,
we're gonna have Hell you have merchandise coming out here
pretty soon too, and hell no merchandise. But looke in
you're boxing. If I say to you, and I've said
this to you before in your boxing career at HBO,
one fighter or one one boxer or one fight that
(19:40):
stands out to you, what is it?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Well, it's I get the answer, and it's all the
same thing, rightly, because it's it's actually two fighters, but
they both stand out to me because one of them
was my favorite fighter of all time and one of
them I promoted to the high points of his career.
Arturo Gaddy, who's may rest in peace, a friggin' legend
(20:06):
and the greatest blood and guts warrior in boxing's history
in my belief. And Mickey Ward, who was as much
of a sweetheart of a person and a warrior and
a just like a salt of the earth dude. That
it was really one of the privileges of my career
to get to work with him. But I got to
put together that most memorable trilogy. You know, Gaddy Ward Won,
(20:29):
gaddy Ward two, gaddy Ward three, and gaddy Ward One
was the single greatest fight I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Which fight was it? That they were side by side
in the hospital drinking beer together.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, that actually happened twice, but the first time it
happened was the real memorable one. By the way, by
the time they almost killed each other in the second
and third fights, they were already blood brothers. Like it
was the weirdest thing because they tried to ruin and
they did ruin each other. Arthur broke, I mean Nicky's
got CTE, Mickey's. Mickey had his ear blown ear drum
blown out in the third fight and and lost equilibrium.
(21:02):
I mean, Arthur died way before his time, very controversially,
and no one really knows the real story. But you know,
those guys paid their price for their their courage and
their their fighting spirit. There worried spirit. But by the
time that fight ended and they hugged in the ring.
(21:22):
After that first fight, they I'll never forget the referee
tossing a bottle of water to one of them, and
I don't remember which one it was because it didn't
matter because the other one would have done the same thing.
One of them shoots, happed the bottle of water down
and drinks it, hands it to the other guy after
they almost killed each other before they even know who
got to win, and they shared a bottle of water
(21:43):
and then got wasted in the emergency room where both
of them could have been hospitalized for several days because
they literally almost beat each other to death.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But that, but that that that that rumor or story
that they had beers in the emergency was true.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I thought I was having beers with them. But they
literally instructed someone to go out. They were sitting there.
They go, well, you know, we gotta we had a
neurologist coming in. We're gonna do cat scans. You're gonna
be here an hour or two. Like one of them
looks at the other, he goes, fuck, we're gonna be
here an hour two. Someone's gotta go get beer. And
they sent somebody out to a package store. Run and
they like they you know, we were in the middle
(22:22):
of Connecticut. They found the fucking place, and they came
back with a case of beer and they were drinking
beer in the emergency room. And I never said anything
like it, but I mean, but that was also like
it was one of those nights where I mean, first
of all, I had never seen two guys put caution
to throw, caution to the to the wind, and and
(22:44):
two guys who almost appeared to be mirror images of themselves,
like the two of the most courageous, blooding gutskies you
could ever meet, got in there and they almost killed
each other. And they knew it was beautiful like it ended,
and they knew what happened. It was almost like it
didn't even matter who got to win that night, though
though it really was important in a way that it
(23:06):
went to the underdog and went to Nicky, because it's
sort of created that whole trilogy like atmosphere, like that
whole like build up, Like the favorite didn't win the fight,
the undergoing won the fight, right, but it was tremendous,
you know, And that was the most memorable fight to me,
the most memorable and the most memorable fighters you know
(23:26):
you said something earlier, man, and it's I listened to
your podcast. So it's really the premise. What's life about? Ultimately,
it's about how we make relationship relationships and how you
make a relationship. Know. One of the things you didn't
mention earlier, but it was sort of how did I
how did I come to you in Altuna? Well, the
guy I met why, I didn't even like my first
day of college. I thought he was the horses ass,
(23:47):
Chuck Greenberg. We became like frenemies for most of our
first year of law school.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Like we were like he said, he said, frenemies for
those of you out there and parting Townland frenemies.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, and then the frenemies became more friendship than the
enemy part, like the frenity thing became more of a friendship.
But I was the first investor when Chuck said I
want to own a minor league baseball team. I was
his first I bought his first unit and that was
in Altuna. That's why I was their opening day. I
met you through and I was and I was I
was the GM there, So that's how we met. I
(24:20):
met you threw a guy I met when I was
eighteen years old, right, So, like, it's all about relationships,
you know. And you know what, whoever has the most
fucking fun before they die wins. It's not about money.
Money can't buy you health, money doesn't buy you friends.
Money doesn't money and buy you a woman, make you
buy a good one, right, you know? It really is
(24:53):
about It's all about relationships and and that's what the
journey is, man, That's what it's all about.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Lou what's the fight you had to work the hardest
to save and had you do it?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know? It's funny. I don't. I couldn't really. There's
so many that I had had to work really hard
to say, But the funny part is the ones I
wanted to make the most never happen.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, Like like what Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bow would
have been one of the greatest heavyweight fights ever to happen,
and it never happened. And it was so crazy because
they were completely natural opponents and then just one thing
led to another and it didn't happen. I really, that's
not a question I can answer. That is I haven't
(25:43):
really think about it. Well, curious, I'm gonna be honest
with you too. I was. I never really viewed one
fight as being like, you know, it's funny because as
boxing sort of weekend US programming over the course of years,
and I think it's unquestionably it's weakened over the last
general should over the last couple of decades. It was
really important that Mayweather fort Pacal it should have happened
(26:06):
five years earlier, and the fact that it didn't really
fucked up the fight. And I look all the time,
it's so consistent in boxing that the right fight often
doesn't happen that I can't really point to one fight
I put together and said I worked so hard. I
worked really hard to create a new series. I worked hard.
I had a premise that people boxing is less strong
(26:28):
star driven than most sports. I really believe that. I
believe people want to see people go to war. People
want to see a triumph the spirit. It's not always
the greatest athlete who wins. It could be the guy
with the bigger heart, the guy with the more punch tolerance,
the guy whose bulls hang lower. I mean, it's not
all about the best athlete. And I really wanted to
(26:51):
create a series that was less star driven where every
fight would be World War Three. And that series existed
for a couple of decades. It was called Back Singing
After Dark and people still talk about it and and
getting that series approved was did a lot of things.
Say even though that series doesn't exist, even though HBO
Boxing doesn't exist any longer, there were things I accomplished
(27:14):
with that series that will never change. Right now, one
of the biggest, among the biggest superstars in the sport,
there's a little featherweight from Japan, a little hundred and
twenty two pound fighter from Japan known as the Monster.
You never saw Japanese fighters, or foreign fighters or African fighters,
or you know before before Boxing after Dark, you rarely
saw them. You didn't see you never saw midgets or
(27:38):
excuse me for the pejorative little people. But when I
say little people, I'm not being pejorative. I mean the
weight classes where the fighters are. When twenty six, one,
twenty two, when eighteen win, fifteen one twelve fly weight,
you never saw those guys on television in the eighties.
You just did it. And now the little men are
little giants to the sport and frank their punch output
(28:01):
the way they fight, the ferocity, the tenacity, the number
of punches they can throw in around compared to the
big guys, the little guys are a lot more fun.
And and now everybody's onto the fact that the little
guys are a lot more fun and some of the
biggest superstars in boxing are little men, right and and
and then also I think being able to be part
(28:24):
of the movement to bring women into into boxing has
been something I'm proud of. So it's not really an
individual fight, it's more like some of the little causes.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I've Yeah, I'll ask him a question. I know he
can answer them. Parney, what was Don King?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Like? Oh my god, that's a fucking It's on podcasts, man,
I should do a podcast just to tell fucking stories
of Don You know, it's very interesting. There's a big
documentary that's in the works and it's not with King's authorization,
but it's like basically almost produced that I think my
interview is going to be the core of a lot
of it. You know, a lot of people villifi King
(29:02):
and demonized King, and oh King took advantage of fighters,
and King was a bad guy, and King was this,
and King was that dude. King was an og before
there was a major league manager in baseball, before there
was a black owner in any sport like he was
a major force. I don't give Yeah, he went to prison,
you know, he didn go to Princeton. He went to prison, right.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
And he didn't go to Princeton. He went to prison.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
But I'll tell you this, he's one of the most
resourceful people I've ever known. He's one of the most
He's one of the smartest technically under educated people or
uneducated people that you will ever meet. And he's actually
fairly educated because he's voracious reader. He's uh, he's he's
a fascinating cat man with a lot of components. I'm
(29:52):
not gonna sit there and tell you where he's going
or who's judging him. We're not judging him. But I'm
gonna tell you he's one of the goats, you know.
I'm gonna tell you that he and Arab were forces
in nature, and that King as a pt barnum kind
of carnival barking, big personality promoter that almost unmatched. There's
(30:12):
not an event he ever touched and didn't get bigger
because he was involved, particularly when he was in his prime,
great promoter you know, I'm not judging him as a
human being. There are a lot of things I would
have done differently than him. When I write my book,
there's a story I don't feel free really to tell
it right now. I'll tell it after he's gone. But
he and I had very serious conversations a couple of
(30:33):
times wasted about life where I you know he for
when I was in HBO. We didn't do business with
him for a while. He had a falling out with
my boss. He was he had an exclusive arrangement with
his starfighters with Showtime when I was at HBO, and
I had like a giant blow up picture of his
mug shot on my office door. And this is what
(30:55):
I was an HBO executive. So everybody who was a
big shot in media or tea or boxing that I
was dealing with in those days, you couldn't see that
picture if you came into my office. And of course
it became like folklore. King knew that his mugshot was
on my door, and he hated that fact. Hated it
and hated it, and he thought that I was sort
(31:16):
of cock blocking him at HBO, even though he was
already blocked, had nothing to done that wasn't when he
was when he got cock blocked. My cock wasn't big
enough to block him.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
So, uh doesn't mat.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I was like, you had my fucking mugshot on about
your office for ten years. How disrespectful, I said, dog,
you were a good looking young guy there, if that's
any consolations. But we weren't through business together and whatever.
And we had a very long conversation about life and
what and I told you know, and and the truth
of the matter is is I don't hate him, I
don't judge him. I admire him in many ways. I
(31:57):
also there were things ways he lived and things he
did I simply never would have done in my life.
It wouldn't have been part of my compass, my directional
compass in terms of life. However, he's a remarkable only
in America man. He says he's the king of only
in America, but he is only in America. Only in America.
(32:19):
Can sud he could go into a boardman. Look at
like this man was was as close to business associate
and friend as Donald Trump had for years and years. Right,
I mean, you know, now Don's ninety something and he's
you know, he's in the twilight of his life. But
but you know, even twenty twenty five, thirty years ago,
King was a monster. He was a personality. Frankly, he
(32:42):
was a bigger celebrity than almost every fighter he had,
other than maybe Mike Tyson. King was the bigger celebrity
than all of them. King used to marvel at that
everyone in these motherfucker's going to be gone, but I'm
still going to be here, you know, like he knew
and he will and he was and he was and
he was at the top of his game for decades.
(33:05):
And the same is true of Bob Aaron Man. Both
of them are gangsters, pure fucking whips gang I mean,
and I say that would love conadmiration, you know what
I mean, I'm not you know, I'm not talking about
criminality now. I'm just talking about balls and resolve and
and and and uh, both of them still out there.
I mean, Arab's still running one of the biggest companies
(33:27):
in boxing at ninety three, King, who really like his
company's more of a one man. You know, Arab created
a big sort of corporate boxing company. You know, Kings
was always King's company, right, and there's only you know,
you're ninety four, Like, look at poor Joe Biden. You
hit a certain point in your life for age and
you're just not able to do what you used to
(33:47):
do anymore. Right, But both of them are monsters, man
and there. And I'll tell you something I had an
experienced recently. I was with Arab we had dinner and
had a couple of fucking vodkas, and Aaron pulls out
his phone and he had like, not knowing the zoom
or what the fuck it is, really, someone put them
on a zoom with King it was there. Both of
them have just had their birthdays, like their ninety seconds
(34:10):
or whatever around the same time, and someone put them
on a zoom call and unknowingly Aram taped the zoom call, right,
so he actually has the zoom call because he accidentally
taped it. And he shows us his zoom and it's
the two of them, and for most of three minutes,
all they're doing is like how lingoln laughter. I'm not
even sure they could hear one another about how everybody
(34:30):
else is fucking dead and they're still around, how they
outlived all their enemies and haters. Yeah, and they're still around.
And I got the biggest kick out of that. You know,
that's great guy, not not my role model, but at
the same time an incredibly remarkable human being, an incredibly skilled, resourceful,
(34:54):
smart person, and the Trailblazers because he was, you know,
one of the most power powerful figure he and Arab
in an entire sport as a black man who went
to prison at a time where black men weren't managing
sports teams, warrant general managers, warrant owners. Whatever you want
to say about Don King, it's much more whoever wants
(35:15):
to cast to get him or vilify him. It's a
much more complicated story, right, And I'm not endorsing everything
he's done, but I'm saying he's a fascinating guy.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, we got about ten minutes left in parting time here.
We haven't even taught baseball yet, but I want to
see keep going on boxing because you talked about boxing
and baseball as your two loves. You mentioned Muhammad Ali.
One of the many things that I admire about you
is the relationships that you have all across the world.
You went to Muhammad Ali's funeral. Can you tell the
(35:45):
party time listeners the story you told me about after
the funeral. What happened at the corner of the street.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Oh the butterfly. Yeah, yeah, you know what, I can't
I still can't believe that that happened. You know, well
everybody knows flowing like a butterfly's thing I could be.
And then the butterfly and the b were sort of
symbols to Ali fans or Ali. In fact, we we
did a the guys that worked for me were kind
(36:15):
it up to you or me, and we did an
Ali memorial jersey and had a butterfly and be on
it and the whole thing with a bunch of friends. Joe,
that's great jerseys. I still wear mine. It actually fits.
We uh, were walking down the street and there's this
(36:36):
beautiful monarch butterfly that looks like it's dead on the ground.
And a guy named John Saracino, who is a very
well known former boxing writers. I think he's retired now,
I think, but he was a writer for USA today.
He was one of the big writers in the nineties
early two thousands, and he was a friend of Hobbit's.
Wiley Matthews, who just got into the Boxing Hall of
(36:59):
Famer few weeks ago, who was a writer with the
New York Post, a former head of ESPN Sports, was
there with us, and we're walking down the street on
our way to the motorcade like we had, you know,
the motorcade that was gonna lead, you know, going through
We decided we wanted to see the parade and they
(37:19):
was they were they did a motorcade through Louisville. So
we walked to where the motorcate was and Saratina puts
this foot that and he almost steps on this monarch
butterfly and and he looks at this and the butterfly
down on the ground and he says, man like, I mean, wow,
look at this beautiful as butterflies, but I think it's dead.
And and uh he picks up the butterfly. And I
(37:42):
don't know like where this comes from, but he picks
up the butterfly that looks like it's dead in his hand,
and it's this big, gorgeous monarch butterfly, like big, like
the guy like this is Saratoo was about six three,
and the thing was like taking up his whole fucking
hand and uh he goes fly Ali and the butterfly
takes off from his aunt and this girl who was
(38:06):
walking with us somebody's girlfriend or wife who was walking
with us started crying. Yeah, but that butterfly took off
and flew away, and he said, he said, Fly Ali, Fly, Ali.
I was.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
I believe in that stuff. That's why I want you
to tell the story. And Joe T. I know, Joe
T and I we've had losses in our family lately.
We both believe in that side.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I still, I mean, I mean, honestly, you can't
see it, but the fucking hairs are standing, yea, because
I never will forget that moment. Yeah, you know, and
and uh and it's funny but I think someone had
it on video and I might have had a copy
of it at one point on my phone, and I
think my phone was I didn't have it backed up
or whatever, but someone had. I mean, it was so
(38:53):
remarkable to say, look, you know, how many people in
life have a hero that's like transcended to everyone. Like
I had nobody in a hero in my life and
my sensibility in my mind that ever came near Ali.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And so what was it like when you first met him,
Like the first time you ever met him, were you
like tongue tied or like, was it just he was
he treated Janice, and like, sometimes I haven't had this experience.
But sometimes people say it's not great to meet your heroes.
I might have always been great when I met him,
he but.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
I wouldn't by the way, Summer mine have have failed me,
but Ali didn't. And when I met him, I met him,
and I met Lonnie, his wife, and Mohammed was already
had Parkinson's. He was already, you know, somewhat ill, but
he was all there. His marbles were always all there,
and he still did magic tricks, and he he like
I mean, he still was communicative and and he was
(39:48):
incredibly kind to me. And it was so obvious to
him how much I loved, Like I couldn't really hide
what he meant to me. It was so obvious even
in a room or sit there with his family. And
then strangely, like I wound up getting a sign He
wrote a book and it was written through time water,
and he did a book tour that was basically the
(40:12):
book tour was sponsored by HBO, and I wound up
sort of accompanying Mohammad and his wife and the author
of the other author. The co author of this book
was called Healing On Like a book tour and in
certain appearances. So I got to spend like a number
of weeks and days with the Ali and his family, right,
(40:35):
I meant, And I and I got, over the course
of years to know him and his family, and you know,
to get to meet your idol, your hero, and he
doesn't let you down.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Right, And that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
And I it was a story I told I think
I put it online the night Ali died, but it's
one of my greatest memories of Ali. I was going
to a play in Broadway, and I was going to
meet somebody who was already at the theater. And I
was walking from the HBO offices on sixth Avenue and
(41:14):
forty second Street to the theater. And I'm a couple
of blocks away from my theater, but I see a
giant like gathering of people on the sidewalk, like hundreds
of people. And as I get closer, I see it's
hundreds of people lining up to get autographs from Muhammad Ali,
who was autographing these little pamphlets that say about explaining
(41:37):
Islam to people that are and aren't Muslim, you know,
and what is islab about? It isn't you know? And
it was it was signing pamphlets, autographing them to you know,
two people, And I said to him, you know, I
walked by. I said, hey, Mohammad, how are you? Shook
(41:59):
my hand, gave me a pamphlet. You know anything autograph
by Ali is you know, I'll take an extra one
or two of those anyway, And you're considering Islamo and
Scase And I went to the Broadway play and I'm
leaving the play two hours or twenty minutes later, and
there's still this commotion and block or two away from
(42:20):
the theater I'm at, and there's still a big crowd
on the street, and I'm like, this can't be because
at this point he was not one hundred percent well.
He already had some manifestations of Parkinson's. It was a
summer like warm summer night. He had been standing there
for three hours. He was on three hours of signing pamphlets.
(42:41):
And I said, I gotta walk over and say hello.
I walk back, I say hello, I go, what do
you You've been out here for three like I saw
you two hours twenty minutes ago. And he looks at
me and he goes, I'm doing the right thing. I
want to go to heaven, and that was a lot
of what motivated him in his like later years to
(43:03):
be as like there like even though he was sick,
even though he wasn't doing interviews and able to communicate
so easily with people. Connecting with people became like an
obsession to him because he thought it was his best
He really believed this. He thought it was his best
(43:24):
route to God, good way to live.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
MP. I want to I want to close by giving
you a one shotter with with Lou Joe T. You
have anything you want to say and say, hell yeah,
hell no, You've done a great job so far. To Lou,
I've got four I've got four passes to Parney's Pub,
and you're allowed to bring four people to Parney's Pub,
Dad or alive? Who are you bringing four people to
(43:53):
Parney's Pub to bang down beers? Joe T.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Roberta, Okay, Bruce Sprigsteen.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Okay, that's I wasn't expecting that, but all right, I
thought you were gonna give me a musician, but I
think it was gonna be Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
And Bruce Bruce Sprigsteen. Uh, well you know what. I also,
I never met him, like if I had a bucket
list right now would be to get a beer with
Springsteen and just shoot the ship, you know, and and
also some of the ship that he's talked about a
little bit. I mean he's been obviously, this is a
brilliant guy who's accomplished, like like Mount Rushmore shit, who's
always battled depression and had his own issues. Like I
(44:35):
think he'd be a cool person to really shoot the
ship with. Like I really enjoyed what I went through
his Broadway thing and got a little up close to
personal with that Jesus Christ More. I'm bizarre, but I
think he'd be pretty cool to know what Jesus was like. Yeah,
we would never run out of wine either. That'd be awesome. Man.
You never go.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, we have to give Joe t something else to say.
You would be able to say, hell yeah, hell no.
But I kind of liked the idea of having somebody
around that can turn water into wine. I'm down with that,
all right. So that's good. Okay, we got we got
we got Roberto Clemeny, Bruce Springs team and Jesus Christ And.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
I'm going to put in uh uh Martin Luther kick
good grew all right.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
All right, and pay one shot your last question for
Louda Belle. As we wrap up, we haven't We didn't
even talk.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
We got to talk a little baseball loo, and I
know Parney's not going to do it, so I'll tee
you up. What has Richmond and the team and the
city come to mean to you over these years?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
You know, it's so weird because like it's I'm not
someone that spent months there at a time, or like
came in for long trips and whatever. But at this point,
i have so many relationships there and friends there, and
I've so much invested. Hey, I want to tell you something.
I have never had any endeavor in my life that
I have worked on for fifteen years. I've never had
(45:58):
any project, any any particular thing that I really tiresly
put my heart and my money and my soul and
my effort into doing in my life. Getting this new
ballpark after fifteen years is such like when I see
that struggle going to the ground, there's going to be
(46:18):
a weight that's taken off me because Richmond, like, we
deserve the love we get, but we get a lot
of love, and the people there deserve a new ballpark
and they deserve us to stay like they deserve what's happening.
Like I truly really believe that the biggest losers the
people who would have been hurt the worst if the
(46:40):
squirrels and the politicians and the people of Richmond weren't
able to make this ballpark happen. The people that would
have hurt the worst are the people. I think that
everybody involved wants to help them up. It's the average
citizen to the average person in Richmond.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
I think we are a.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Quality of life business more than almost any other business.
And I tell I feel about baseball in general, like
I think baseball is part of the fabric of America
in a way that's simply different than any other sport.
And that's why despite a Boxing Hall of Fame and
a career where I know everybody in the sport of
(47:21):
boxing and I'm god willing, I've left the legacy that
people will remember my first love is the sport is baseball.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Well, and I don't mean to interrupt, I know we're
trying to wrap up, but MP I went to the
Boxing Hall of Fame and Joe Ta was in upstate
New York. I was really proud and happy that lou
thinks enough of me that he invited me to be
up there, and Lou is correct. I watched how people
look at Lou Debella. I watch how people hugged and
(47:51):
high fived him. And let me tell you something. The
International Boxing Hall of Fame induction ceremony, that's where Good
Fellas meets New Jackson Ity meets du Dynasty. I mean,
there was every all, all all people were there and
Lou was the melting pot and that was really cool
for my friend. And you know, as and as I said,
we're closing up here in a few minutes, but you know,
(48:13):
we're all about relationships at partie time, and Lou and
I are employee employer employee employer employee. But when we
say goodbye, a lot of times we say we love
each other. And that's that's to me, what life is
all about. To do things with people that you love
and you care about. You know, Joe T's always with
(48:33):
me everywhere. I love Jo T.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
And I'm gonna I'm end up by saying this part
because I'm gonna be repetitive because I said this earlier.
But I'm really focused on this these days. Whoever has
the most fucking fun when they're here wits and and
and the way you do that is with friends, with family,
with people you care about. And it's all about relationships.
(48:57):
It's all about relationships. It's a short run we're on.
We don't know when it ends. Have as much, have
as many good times as you can make memories. And
that's what you know. I have a lot of great
memories about of everything I've been working. I mean baseball memories,
have a lot of great boxing memories. And I've been
blessed man and I at the moment, I, you know,
for all the aggravation that all the bitching and money
(49:19):
that comes out of me, you know, I'm pretty much grateful.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Well, we're grateful that you spend some time with us
on party time. Little You're a big part of my life.
You're a big part of my family's life, and we
all love you collectively as a as a family. MP
Any parting shot says, we let Wyatt wind down inning
number five. We got some exciting shows lined up, So
always subscribe, Tell your friends, tell your family, hell, tell
(49:46):
every people that you hate to part time.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
You got to do an NFL party time, you got
you gotta do a pre season party time. You got
to grab Bettis and a few of your NFL buddies
and and uh, you know, shoot, hit some over enders.
Let's go. Yeah, I read the word.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
I've lived in Richmond for seventeen years now. I've lived
here within without the squirrels. Life's better with the squirrels.
Thank you both for making that happen.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Thank you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
And Pete, thank you so much. Another inning of party
time coming to a close. Joe T. Did you enjoy
loud Debella in inning number five? Hell yeah? All right, everybody,
that's okay as claus as hell yeah, get the hell
out of here. And also I want to finish by saying,
we had any number four Tony Beasley where we almost
(50:32):
made it through the entire show without being explicit no chance.
We got through it today with the sweet loud Debella.
I think we might have set a record for f
bombs today. So congratulations.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Wait, fuck is a very very very versatile word. Fucky.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Thank you, everybody, have fun, Go nuts,
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com