August 15, 2022 • 23 mins
In the premiere episode, Neha divulges how she found out the harsh truth about one of the darkest moments in South Asian History: the Partition of India in 1947, when she was 27 years old. Neha talks to her grandpa, great aunt, and mother to get their perspectives on this truly traumatic event. 2022 marks the 75th anniversary, and it is high time this story is told to the masses.
Sources/Links:
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The Great Partition by Yasmin Khan
‘We Were Friends, and Then We Started Killing Each Other.’ India Recalls Partition. Carefully. - NY Times
Cyril Radcliffe: The man who drew the partition line - BBC Video
https://socfilms.com/ - Sharmeen Obaid - Chinoy site
Voiceover for Akbarali Merchant is provided by Aziz Akbarali
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Warning. The following episode contains stories of extreme violence. I
didn't know it that I would go anywhere or not.
I was just enjoying the independent state, saying all the
final about and they were we were dunking on the
(00:22):
on the road. I don't know. I didn't know what
to be left for our next day. That is my
grandfather or my daughter John speaking. I called him recently
over what'sapp to ask about something that happened many years ago.
He's eighty nine years old and he lives in Karagi.
(00:43):
Even though the connection wasn't very good, what he told
me brought me back with him to his teenage years.
It was June three and he was fourteen years old
when he found out that the country he called home
was going to be severed into pieces. He heard the
used from his father, the newspapers and on the airwaves,
but had no idea what this meant for him or
(01:06):
his family. What was this news? Britain was finally going
to grant India independence and in the process a new country,
Pakistan would be formed. With this information, a difficult choice
was rapidly approaching. Were they going to stay in India
or would they make the trip to Pakistan, so many
factors were still at play, the official boundary lines were
(01:27):
still unknown. There remained that way until a few days
after the official independence days of each country August fourteenth
for Pakistan and August fift for India. Imagine the gravity
of this situation. Most of us on any given day
can't decide on a place to grab food when we're hungry.
But this decision is one that would not only impact
(01:48):
my grandfather, but future generations of our family. For many,
this was not a leisurely choice, but one made on
the basis of survival. If you have no idea know
what I'm talking about, you aren't alone. From I Heart Radio,
This is Partition, a podcast that will take a closer
look into this often forgotten part of history. Seven Partition
(02:14):
of India is a story of panic, chaos, and violence.
The partition created two independent nations, the Muslim majority Pakistan
and the Hindu Sikh majority India. When the British left India,
they made these divisions along religious lines, even though Muslims, Hindus,
and people of other faiths all had lived together in
(02:34):
the same communities for generations. Over fourty million people were displaced,
making it the biggest mass migration in history. It's estimated
between a half a million to two million died in
the ensuing violence seventy five years to the day, and
we still don't know the exact number of lives lost,
and it's safe to say we never will. My name
(02:57):
is Najazi's a writer, podcaster, and film programmer living in Austin, Texas.
I was one in Karachi, Pakistan, and came to the
US with my parents, my sister, and eight suitcases when
I was just eight months old. I'm going to be
real with y'all. As an immigrant and Muslim growing up
in the South, especially when eleven happened, I very much
(03:18):
shied away from these parts of my identity. I didn't
have any interest in learning about my culture or where
I came from. It wasn't until my first semester at
the University of Texas at Austin where I truly found
a space where I was able to embrace these parts
of me and take the time to discover myself more
as a person. I didn't get the opportunity to go
back to Pakistan until I was twenty seven years old.
(03:38):
Both my parents had been back on separate occasions, seen
was the year we were all going to be together.
It was like a homecoming of sorts. I was so
(04:00):
excited that not even the combined seventeen hour flight was
enough to get me down. When we landed, it was
about four am. I had barely slept, but it didn't matter.
I was wide awake and taking everything in. During this trip,
I got to see where my parents went to school, museums,
and markets. I would be in a car and look
at the window and there'd be a camel next to us.
(04:21):
I didn't write a camel then, but I did on
my second trip, and let's just say I don't think
I would do it again. I saw relatives that I
haven't even seen since I was a baby, and didn't
even have any recollection of They would tell me little
antidotes of what I was like in those first few months.
Apparently I smiled a lot, which I find very easy
to believe based on the handful of photos I have
from that time. This trip was everything I could have
(04:44):
wanted my first trip back to my home country to be.
From exploring the Arabian Sea down south to the mountains
and snow up north, but I also found out something
dark and sinister. It was something that had changed the
lives of every single one of my family members, including Line.
(05:05):
The malls in Pokistan are a lot different than the
malls in the United States. They kind of act as
a nightlife for the cities, since many Asian countries are dry.
The handful of nightclubs that do exist or mostly for
the extremely wealthy or for tourists. The malls are open
super late, usually until about eleven PM, with the food
courts closing around one AM. So when I stumbled upon
(05:26):
an exhibit that was being hosted at the Dolman Mall,
where I was now a frequent visitor, by filmmaker Charmin
obeyed Chnoi, a two time Academy Award winner, I knew
I had to take a look. This is where the
story really starts. I'm not really sure what I expected
when I walked in, but I certainly didn't expect to
be so shocked. The exhibit in question was called Home
(05:51):
and it's about the partition of India. I had been
aware that Pokistan used to be a part of India,
but I didn't know the stories, or more accurately, the
horrors that surrounded this event. I just remember getting more upset, agitated,
and confused. As I walked from room to room, I
kept looking back at my parents. They seemed immersed in
what they were looking at, but I couldn't really gather
(06:13):
much beyond that. Toni's exhibit featured oral histories, objects, and
so many different stories. I was sitting next to my
parents watching a video about a survivor giving their account
of how they had to flee their village, and another
being separated from her loved ones. Afterwards, we made our
way to the food court for lunch, and I distinctly
remember freaking out in every possible way. I am someone
(06:37):
who wears their heart on their sleeve, so my emotions
were very much on display. I never knew this, not
even a little bit. I'm sure whenever I read this
exhibit was happening and mentioned some of the awful statistics
about partition, but I guess I must have really skimmed
the section. We were eating our food, and it was
just this insane picture of us having this intense conversation
(06:59):
over KFC and ME repeating over and over, why didn't
I know about this? Why didn't anybody tell me this?
While waving a chicken strip in my hand. How could
I be twenty seven years old and consider myself proud
to be South Asian and not even have the slightest
idea of how a major event in our history truly unfolded.
(07:22):
I felt like a fraud. How would I even begin
to come to terms with this information? We saw this
exhibit towards the tail end of our trip. We obviously
still had a lot of fun in our remaining days,
but I did feel like there was a dark looming
cloud over me until I returned back home, and to
be honest, it still feels that way sometimes. After our
(07:43):
simultaneous out of body experience and a hard dose of reality,
I began to look into partition. What else didn't I know?
The first thing that became abundantly clear that it was
a ridiculously hasty decision. Britain was broke after the war
and they could no longer afford to rule India. They
exhausted all the resources they could and wanted out. In fact,
(08:04):
India was a world's richestination from one to d But
when the British left, India's GDP plommeted Lord Mountbatten, the Viceroy,
a representative of the monarch was tasked to oversee the
severance of India. I don't think anyone could have summed
up this event quite as well as British historian Yasmin Khan.
(08:24):
She noted in her book The Great Partition was the
perfect storm of hope, disaster, leadership, and blunder. Prior to
the announcement on June third, there have been numerous meetings
between the Muslim League, Indian leaders and the British to
come up with the plan to disillusion the British Raj.
(08:44):
There was never going to be a perfect solution. Each
party involved had their own desires and motives and were
unwavering in their fight. Key players included Mohammad Ali Jinna,
the founder of Pakistan, and jal Wal Herlala Route, prime
Minister of India after independence. These two men, along with others,
(09:05):
were one complicit in this decision. However, their roles I
don't think can compare to the British. That being said,
I'm not really here to discuss men and their soul
called accomplishments or feelings. That is a story that gets
touted around far too much. When I set out to
do this podcast, I wanted to tell just the facts
(09:25):
that quickly became an impossible task. How can you be
impartial to a story that is your own? Those are
the people I want to hear from, ordinary people, the
ones who have been ignored and silenced for decades. The
more I found out about partition, the more questions I had,
especially in relation to my identity. It's super wild to
(09:46):
think about how divergent my life could have been if
my great grandparents didn't decide to move. Our culture and
religion could be completely different. This notion is even more
fueled by the fact that these two countries still have
an incredibly tumultuous relationship with each other, especially in regards
to their borders. I will take a deeper dive into
(10:09):
this topic in another episode. Another big question that came
to mind was where was this history when I was
in school. I don't know about y'all, but the formation
of a new country is a big deal and probably
warrants a discussion of some sort. As far as my
memory serves, we learned about Gandhi and how he was
a pacifist and stood up to the crown, and that's
(10:30):
about it. I wanted to confirm this information, but when
I reached out to the higher ups from my school
district in Arlington, Texas. My queries went unanswered for the
most part, and when I did receive an answer, the
only information I was given was where the subject could
potentially pop up in a standardized test. We learned about
so many outrageous injustices like the Holocaust, but for whatever reason,
(10:52):
Partition has been continually erased from the narrative. While it
is true that history holds more catastrophes and we could
possibly count, Partition is unique because we have no memorials
in either country recognizing this traumatic event. In A Partition
museum was created, but it's in India, making it essentially
impossible for any Pakistanis to visit. There is no easily
(11:15):
accessible communal place to reflect on this grief. Partition isn't
something that just happened in the past, but in actuality
is more of a living, breathing thing that comes to
haunt our daily lives. I am a grandchild of Partition.
The hardships of those who suffered before me are always
on my mind. In return, I believe it is our
(11:36):
duty and our legacy to ensure the world knows what
happened in I don't want unsavory facts swept under the rug,
or to sugarcoat atrocities to make them seem not that bad.
Ignorance is not bliss. Early on, I conducted a Twitter
poll just to gauge where people were at. I asked,
without looking it up, does anyone know what the party
(12:00):
Shan is? One? People voted, with thirty one nine percent
saying yes. Well, sixty eight point one percent, so they
had never heard of it before. I want people to
know this history and to learn the notion that just
because it didn't happen to you or anyone you know personally,
doesn't mean it's not important. I ask everyone to read
the paper, watch the news, open an app on your phone,
(12:23):
and look at the countless immigrant and refugee crises around us.
It isn't just a matter of countries not having it together,
but the years and years of colonialism and imperialism that
took place to make them that way. I was in
the dark for so long, and I don't want that
to be the case for anyone else. My grandparents on
my dad's side lived with us for a few years
in Texas, and not once did I ever ask or
(12:46):
think to ask what their lives were like back then.
Now only two of my four grandparents are still alive
and their memories are not what they once were. You
could consider this my attempt at atonement. Earlier, you heard
(13:07):
my grandfather tell you the state of confusion he was
in when he learned about partition. He lived in Bombay,
and while this area wasn't as hostile as the others,
he still had his fears as a teenage boy. Unfortunately,
the audio for this clip is a little rough, so
my dad is going to read his words aloud. He
says the words they many times, and he's referring to
(13:29):
both Indians and Pakistani's. Bombay had very minor violence between
the gundas. You know, they were shouting. One was shouting
against Pakistan, the other one was shouting against India and
the leaders and everything. When a few people get together
(13:52):
Europe there they would start shouting. The other side also
threw stones and soda water bottles. If they saw anyone
alone in the Muslim or Hindu localities, they would kill them.
They would step them. That happened once in a while.
(14:12):
This one. I used to get scared going to school
because a school was by the border in one of
our conversations, my grandpa casually mentioned that my great aunt
was born on the day of partition. I was gobsmacked.
I am still finding out so much information from my
(14:34):
family and about my family by accident. Even though my
great aunt Pervine would obviously have no recollection about what happened,
I did want to ask her what people told her.
There were a lot of rights over there, and then
many hundreds and millions of people were killed at that time,
(14:54):
more than a million people were killed in fifteen million people.
They moved from from India to Pakistan and some from
Pakistan to India. The rights were so bad they killed everybody.
Bussus a lot of people were killed. Everybody was trying
to get on train, but maybe thousands of people they
couldn't make it because they were killed between the roads.
(15:16):
Like traveling from here to day again, try to latch
onto this information. This is one of the biggest refugee
catastrophes in the world. Numerous accounts were called. People waiting
to travel on trains, desperate to leave, and when many
of the trains pulled into the stations, they were already
filled with passengers, but they weren't alive. Article from the
(15:41):
New York Times mentions just some of the scenes people
had to enter so there. Shaanna Kumari watched a mob
and pale her one year old cousin on a spear,
almost want His father held a can of fuel and
some matches, instructing her to set herself afire if friars
broke into their home, and a k and Nn saw
terrified family leeing villages by foot, in ox carts and
(16:03):
on horseback along roads littered with corpses, picked apart by
dogs and bloated from the rain. Were these harsh truths
detailed on screen or were they glossed over? I'll give
you a taste after the break. Naturally, when researching anything,
(16:43):
I wanted to see what film and TV depictions were
out there. And it's not great, so much so that
it warrants its own episode. But I will tell you
all these tidbits. Barely anything I watched addressed women, children,
religious minorities, or wreck fugees. Most of what I saw
were men talking, or rather complaining about everything under the sun,
(17:06):
except how partition would actually affect the people living in
the places they were eager to tear apart. Partition doesn't
have a Schindler's List, something that is widely available to
the masses to consume. Where's our epic, our, PBS miniseries
or HBO drama, whereas AMD this could be your next
project and I'm completely available to write interact. Of course,
(17:29):
there are books. Books are always great, but I'm willing
to bet the majority of us aren't going to go
that route when learning about something new. Our attention spans
are so minuscule that new information has to be doled
out and digested in tiny pieces with the hope that
these stories will resonate. There are so many important facts
that are either skipped or half ascidly thrown into the
(17:51):
media depictions just to check it off a list. What
if I told you that no one visited the communities
that would soon be separated to see whether or not
the proposed solution to divide India made any sense, or
that the United Nations was deliberately left out of the
conversation to avoid any delays. What if I told you
(18:12):
that the boundary line was to be drawn out in
five weeks by a lawyer who had never even been
to India before. What if I told you seventy women
are thought to have been raped and abducted. We never
get the terror, anguish or heartache. I did witness these
emotions in home, n but this was a temporary exhibit
(18:35):
and again not something that is incredibly accessible to everyone.
I can't remember if photography was allowed Either way, I
don't think I would have brought myself to take any photos,
but I did end up taking one of my mom.
When we were leaving. By the exit, there was a
question posed on a wall with hundreds of sticky notes
littered with answers underneath. Some of the answers traditionally would
(18:57):
be considered mundane, but not in as context. My dad
and I were heading out and I was shocked to
see my mom write something down. I didn't know if
she would remember this moment, but I decided to call
her and ask her about it. Hi now, h Hi Mom,
(19:21):
thanks for coming on the podcast. Um, So, do you
remember when we went to Pakistan for the first time
and we want to that exhibit at the mall and
it was about partition and I was very shocked by
everything that I saw. But it's obviously a story that
you and Dad know very well. Can you tell me
how you felt when you saw what you saw um.
(19:43):
I felt really sad. Although I was not a part
of that partition, but my parents and grandparents and many
other families got rooted out of their homes, and unfortunately,
memories of what my parents and grandparents told me hazy
(20:06):
or they are no longer there. And although we've read
about them in school and colleges about the history of seven,
but looking at these brought back a lot of emotions
and sadness to see that how people survived, how people
(20:29):
moved on, and what they must have faced during that time. Uh.
Usually you don't really participate in a lot of things.
But when you saw a question that was posed on
the wall when we were leaving, that said, what would
you take with you if you had to leave your
home in seven? I was really surprised that you actually
(20:50):
wrote something down. Can you talk about that? I felt
compelled to write something on that wall, and what I
wrote on it was that I would take my family
pictures with me because they would remind me of the
times that we had spent in our that home. It
(21:12):
would remind me what we were left off was memories.
Everything else can be replaced, everything can be bought, but
the memories that we've shared the memories that we have.
The pictures would tell a story, and that I think
is the most important thing that I would ever take
(21:34):
if I ever were to leave a home. Thank you
for talking to me, Thank you Nihah for inviting me
to be a part of your podcast, and I'm anxiously
waiting to listen to it. This season on Partition, I
navigated a whole lot of material which really tested my
(21:54):
limits as a person. The sheer brutality of what I heard, read,
and saw was more than enough sadness to last me
a lifetime. You'll hear from survivors we just escaped because
you know, all those headless bodies and all the people
who were massacred were there around us. We just had
(22:15):
to hide in the train. Historians there is also really
feel that these stories will get lost if their not know.
I really felt that that I didn't want these wants
is to be released. Filmmakers, I think as children of
parents who went through partition and who won't talk about
(22:37):
it so much, a part of our healing is to
understand what happened on a micro level and a macro level.
How did this affect our family in ways that we
have to investigate when they won't talk about it, and
many more people who are also trying to shed light
on the truth about what happened in until now nex Week,
(23:00):
I'm ness and this is Partition. Partition was developed as
a part of the Next Up initiative created by Anna Hosnier,
Joel Monique and Sina Median. Partition is produced by Anna Hosnier,
Tricia Mukerjee and Becca Ramos. It is edited by Rory Gagan,
(23:22):
with the original score composed by Mark Hadley.
Warning. The following episode contains stories of extreme violence. I
didn't know it that I would go anywhere or not.
I was just enjoying the independent state, saying all the
final about and they were we were dunking on the
(00:22):
on the road. I don't know. I didn't know what
to be left for our next day. That is my
grandfather or my daughter John speaking. I called him recently
over what'sapp to ask about something that happened many years ago.
He's eighty nine years old and he lives in Karagi.
(00:43):
Even though the connection wasn't very good, what he told
me brought me back with him to his teenage years.
It was June three and he was fourteen years old
when he found out that the country he called home
was going to be severed into pieces. He heard the
used from his father, the newspapers and on the airwaves,
but had no idea what this meant for him or
(01:06):
his family. What was this news? Britain was finally going
to grant India independence and in the process a new country,
Pakistan would be formed. With this information, a difficult choice
was rapidly approaching. Were they going to stay in India
or would they make the trip to Pakistan, so many
factors were still at play, the official boundary lines were
(01:27):
still unknown. There remained that way until a few days
after the official independence days of each country August fourteenth
for Pakistan and August fift for India. Imagine the gravity
of this situation. Most of us on any given day
can't decide on a place to grab food when we're hungry.
But this decision is one that would not only impact
(01:48):
my grandfather, but future generations of our family. For many,
this was not a leisurely choice, but one made on
the basis of survival. If you have no idea know
what I'm talking about, you aren't alone. From I Heart Radio,
This is Partition, a podcast that will take a closer
look into this often forgotten part of history. Seven Partition
(02:14):
of India is a story of panic, chaos, and violence.
The partition created two independent nations, the Muslim majority Pakistan
and the Hindu Sikh majority India. When the British left India,
they made these divisions along religious lines, even though Muslims, Hindus,
and people of other faiths all had lived together in
(02:34):
the same communities for generations. Over fourty million people were displaced,
making it the biggest mass migration in history. It's estimated
between a half a million to two million died in
the ensuing violence seventy five years to the day, and
we still don't know the exact number of lives lost,
and it's safe to say we never will. My name
(02:57):
is Najazi's a writer, podcaster, and film programmer living in Austin, Texas.
I was one in Karachi, Pakistan, and came to the
US with my parents, my sister, and eight suitcases when
I was just eight months old. I'm going to be
real with y'all. As an immigrant and Muslim growing up
in the South, especially when eleven happened, I very much
(03:18):
shied away from these parts of my identity. I didn't
have any interest in learning about my culture or where
I came from. It wasn't until my first semester at
the University of Texas at Austin where I truly found
a space where I was able to embrace these parts
of me and take the time to discover myself more
as a person. I didn't get the opportunity to go
back to Pakistan until I was twenty seven years old.
(03:38):
Both my parents had been back on separate occasions, seen
was the year we were all going to be together.
It was like a homecoming of sorts. I was so
(04:00):
excited that not even the combined seventeen hour flight was
enough to get me down. When we landed, it was
about four am. I had barely slept, but it didn't matter.
I was wide awake and taking everything in. During this trip,
I got to see where my parents went to school, museums,
and markets. I would be in a car and look
at the window and there'd be a camel next to us.
(04:21):
I didn't write a camel then, but I did on
my second trip, and let's just say I don't think
I would do it again. I saw relatives that I
haven't even seen since I was a baby, and didn't
even have any recollection of They would tell me little
antidotes of what I was like in those first few months.
Apparently I smiled a lot, which I find very easy
to believe based on the handful of photos I have
from that time. This trip was everything I could have
(04:44):
wanted my first trip back to my home country to be.
From exploring the Arabian Sea down south to the mountains
and snow up north, but I also found out something
dark and sinister. It was something that had changed the
lives of every single one of my family members, including Line.
(05:05):
The malls in Pokistan are a lot different than the
malls in the United States. They kind of act as
a nightlife for the cities, since many Asian countries are dry.
The handful of nightclubs that do exist or mostly for
the extremely wealthy or for tourists. The malls are open
super late, usually until about eleven PM, with the food
courts closing around one AM. So when I stumbled upon
(05:26):
an exhibit that was being hosted at the Dolman Mall,
where I was now a frequent visitor, by filmmaker Charmin
obeyed Chnoi, a two time Academy Award winner, I knew
I had to take a look. This is where the
story really starts. I'm not really sure what I expected
when I walked in, but I certainly didn't expect to
be so shocked. The exhibit in question was called Home
(05:51):
and it's about the partition of India. I had been
aware that Pokistan used to be a part of India,
but I didn't know the stories, or more accurately, the
horrors that surrounded this event. I just remember getting more upset, agitated,
and confused. As I walked from room to room, I
kept looking back at my parents. They seemed immersed in
what they were looking at, but I couldn't really gather
(06:13):
much beyond that. Toni's exhibit featured oral histories, objects, and
so many different stories. I was sitting next to my
parents watching a video about a survivor giving their account
of how they had to flee their village, and another
being separated from her loved ones. Afterwards, we made our
way to the food court for lunch, and I distinctly
remember freaking out in every possible way. I am someone
(06:37):
who wears their heart on their sleeve, so my emotions
were very much on display. I never knew this, not
even a little bit. I'm sure whenever I read this
exhibit was happening and mentioned some of the awful statistics
about partition, but I guess I must have really skimmed
the section. We were eating our food, and it was
just this insane picture of us having this intense conversation
(06:59):
over KFC and ME repeating over and over, why didn't
I know about this? Why didn't anybody tell me this?
While waving a chicken strip in my hand. How could
I be twenty seven years old and consider myself proud
to be South Asian and not even have the slightest
idea of how a major event in our history truly unfolded.
(07:22):
I felt like a fraud. How would I even begin
to come to terms with this information? We saw this
exhibit towards the tail end of our trip. We obviously
still had a lot of fun in our remaining days,
but I did feel like there was a dark looming
cloud over me until I returned back home, and to
be honest, it still feels that way sometimes. After our
(07:43):
simultaneous out of body experience and a hard dose of reality,
I began to look into partition. What else didn't I know?
The first thing that became abundantly clear that it was
a ridiculously hasty decision. Britain was broke after the war
and they could no longer afford to rule India. They
exhausted all the resources they could and wanted out. In fact,
(08:04):
India was a world's richestination from one to d But
when the British left, India's GDP plommeted Lord Mountbatten, the Viceroy,
a representative of the monarch was tasked to oversee the
severance of India. I don't think anyone could have summed
up this event quite as well as British historian Yasmin Khan.
(08:24):
She noted in her book The Great Partition was the
perfect storm of hope, disaster, leadership, and blunder. Prior to
the announcement on June third, there have been numerous meetings
between the Muslim League, Indian leaders and the British to
come up with the plan to disillusion the British Raj.
(08:44):
There was never going to be a perfect solution. Each
party involved had their own desires and motives and were
unwavering in their fight. Key players included Mohammad Ali Jinna,
the founder of Pakistan, and jal Wal Herlala Route, prime
Minister of India after independence. These two men, along with others,
(09:05):
were one complicit in this decision. However, their roles I
don't think can compare to the British. That being said,
I'm not really here to discuss men and their soul
called accomplishments or feelings. That is a story that gets
touted around far too much. When I set out to
do this podcast, I wanted to tell just the facts
(09:25):
that quickly became an impossible task. How can you be
impartial to a story that is your own? Those are
the people I want to hear from, ordinary people, the
ones who have been ignored and silenced for decades. The
more I found out about partition, the more questions I had,
especially in relation to my identity. It's super wild to
(09:46):
think about how divergent my life could have been if
my great grandparents didn't decide to move. Our culture and
religion could be completely different. This notion is even more
fueled by the fact that these two countries still have
an incredibly tumultuous relationship with each other, especially in regards
to their borders. I will take a deeper dive into
(10:09):
this topic in another episode. Another big question that came
to mind was where was this history when I was
in school. I don't know about y'all, but the formation
of a new country is a big deal and probably
warrants a discussion of some sort. As far as my
memory serves, we learned about Gandhi and how he was
a pacifist and stood up to the crown, and that's
(10:30):
about it. I wanted to confirm this information, but when
I reached out to the higher ups from my school
district in Arlington, Texas. My queries went unanswered for the
most part, and when I did receive an answer, the
only information I was given was where the subject could
potentially pop up in a standardized test. We learned about
so many outrageous injustices like the Holocaust, but for whatever reason,
(10:52):
Partition has been continually erased from the narrative. While it
is true that history holds more catastrophes and we could
possibly count, Partition is unique because we have no memorials
in either country recognizing this traumatic event. In A Partition
museum was created, but it's in India, making it essentially
impossible for any Pakistanis to visit. There is no easily
(11:15):
accessible communal place to reflect on this grief. Partition isn't
something that just happened in the past, but in actuality
is more of a living, breathing thing that comes to
haunt our daily lives. I am a grandchild of Partition.
The hardships of those who suffered before me are always
on my mind. In return, I believe it is our
(11:36):
duty and our legacy to ensure the world knows what
happened in I don't want unsavory facts swept under the rug,
or to sugarcoat atrocities to make them seem not that bad.
Ignorance is not bliss. Early on, I conducted a Twitter
poll just to gauge where people were at. I asked,
without looking it up, does anyone know what the party
(12:00):
Shan is? One? People voted, with thirty one nine percent
saying yes. Well, sixty eight point one percent, so they
had never heard of it before. I want people to
know this history and to learn the notion that just
because it didn't happen to you or anyone you know personally,
doesn't mean it's not important. I ask everyone to read
the paper, watch the news, open an app on your phone,
(12:23):
and look at the countless immigrant and refugee crises around us.
It isn't just a matter of countries not having it together,
but the years and years of colonialism and imperialism that
took place to make them that way. I was in
the dark for so long, and I don't want that
to be the case for anyone else. My grandparents on
my dad's side lived with us for a few years
in Texas, and not once did I ever ask or
(12:46):
think to ask what their lives were like back then.
Now only two of my four grandparents are still alive
and their memories are not what they once were. You
could consider this my attempt at atonement. Earlier, you heard
(13:07):
my grandfather tell you the state of confusion he was
in when he learned about partition. He lived in Bombay,
and while this area wasn't as hostile as the others,
he still had his fears as a teenage boy. Unfortunately,
the audio for this clip is a little rough, so
my dad is going to read his words aloud. He
says the words they many times, and he's referring to
(13:29):
both Indians and Pakistani's. Bombay had very minor violence between
the gundas. You know, they were shouting. One was shouting
against Pakistan, the other one was shouting against India and
the leaders and everything. When a few people get together
(13:52):
Europe there they would start shouting. The other side also
threw stones and soda water bottles. If they saw anyone
alone in the Muslim or Hindu localities, they would kill them.
They would step them. That happened once in a while.
(14:12):
This one. I used to get scared going to school
because a school was by the border in one of
our conversations, my grandpa casually mentioned that my great aunt
was born on the day of partition. I was gobsmacked.
I am still finding out so much information from my
(14:34):
family and about my family by accident. Even though my
great aunt Pervine would obviously have no recollection about what happened,
I did want to ask her what people told her.
There were a lot of rights over there, and then
many hundreds and millions of people were killed at that time,
(14:54):
more than a million people were killed in fifteen million people.
They moved from from India to Pakistan and some from
Pakistan to India. The rights were so bad they killed everybody.
Bussus a lot of people were killed. Everybody was trying
to get on train, but maybe thousands of people they
couldn't make it because they were killed between the roads.
(15:16):
Like traveling from here to day again, try to latch
onto this information. This is one of the biggest refugee
catastrophes in the world. Numerous accounts were called. People waiting
to travel on trains, desperate to leave, and when many
of the trains pulled into the stations, they were already
filled with passengers, but they weren't alive. Article from the
(15:41):
New York Times mentions just some of the scenes people
had to enter so there. Shaanna Kumari watched a mob
and pale her one year old cousin on a spear,
almost want His father held a can of fuel and
some matches, instructing her to set herself afire if friars
broke into their home, and a k and Nn saw
terrified family leeing villages by foot, in ox carts and
(16:03):
on horseback along roads littered with corpses, picked apart by
dogs and bloated from the rain. Were these harsh truths
detailed on screen or were they glossed over? I'll give
you a taste after the break. Naturally, when researching anything,
(16:43):
I wanted to see what film and TV depictions were
out there. And it's not great, so much so that
it warrants its own episode. But I will tell you
all these tidbits. Barely anything I watched addressed women, children,
religious minorities, or wreck fugees. Most of what I saw
were men talking, or rather complaining about everything under the sun,
(17:06):
except how partition would actually affect the people living in
the places they were eager to tear apart. Partition doesn't
have a Schindler's List, something that is widely available to
the masses to consume. Where's our epic, our, PBS miniseries
or HBO drama, whereas AMD this could be your next
project and I'm completely available to write interact. Of course,
(17:29):
there are books. Books are always great, but I'm willing
to bet the majority of us aren't going to go
that route when learning about something new. Our attention spans
are so minuscule that new information has to be doled
out and digested in tiny pieces with the hope that
these stories will resonate. There are so many important facts
that are either skipped or half ascidly thrown into the
(17:51):
media depictions just to check it off a list. What
if I told you that no one visited the communities
that would soon be separated to see whether or not
the proposed solution to divide India made any sense, or
that the United Nations was deliberately left out of the
conversation to avoid any delays. What if I told you
(18:12):
that the boundary line was to be drawn out in
five weeks by a lawyer who had never even been
to India before. What if I told you seventy women
are thought to have been raped and abducted. We never
get the terror, anguish or heartache. I did witness these
emotions in home, n but this was a temporary exhibit
(18:35):
and again not something that is incredibly accessible to everyone.
I can't remember if photography was allowed Either way, I
don't think I would have brought myself to take any photos,
but I did end up taking one of my mom.
When we were leaving. By the exit, there was a
question posed on a wall with hundreds of sticky notes
littered with answers underneath. Some of the answers traditionally would
(18:57):
be considered mundane, but not in as context. My dad
and I were heading out and I was shocked to
see my mom write something down. I didn't know if
she would remember this moment, but I decided to call
her and ask her about it. Hi now, h Hi Mom,
(19:21):
thanks for coming on the podcast. Um, So, do you
remember when we went to Pakistan for the first time
and we want to that exhibit at the mall and
it was about partition and I was very shocked by
everything that I saw. But it's obviously a story that
you and Dad know very well. Can you tell me
how you felt when you saw what you saw um.
(19:43):
I felt really sad. Although I was not a part
of that partition, but my parents and grandparents and many
other families got rooted out of their homes, and unfortunately,
memories of what my parents and grandparents told me hazy
(20:06):
or they are no longer there. And although we've read
about them in school and colleges about the history of seven,
but looking at these brought back a lot of emotions
and sadness to see that how people survived, how people
(20:29):
moved on, and what they must have faced during that time. Uh.
Usually you don't really participate in a lot of things.
But when you saw a question that was posed on
the wall when we were leaving, that said, what would
you take with you if you had to leave your
home in seven? I was really surprised that you actually
(20:50):
wrote something down. Can you talk about that? I felt
compelled to write something on that wall, and what I
wrote on it was that I would take my family
pictures with me because they would remind me of the
times that we had spent in our that home. It
(21:12):
would remind me what we were left off was memories.
Everything else can be replaced, everything can be bought, but
the memories that we've shared the memories that we have.
The pictures would tell a story, and that I think
is the most important thing that I would ever take
(21:34):
if I ever were to leave a home. Thank you
for talking to me, Thank you Nihah for inviting me
to be a part of your podcast, and I'm anxiously
waiting to listen to it. This season on Partition, I
navigated a whole lot of material which really tested my
(21:54):
limits as a person. The sheer brutality of what I heard, read,
and saw was more than enough sadness to last me
a lifetime. You'll hear from survivors we just escaped because
you know, all those headless bodies and all the people
who were massacred were there around us. We just had
(22:15):
to hide in the train. Historians there is also really
feel that these stories will get lost if their not know.
I really felt that that I didn't want these wants
is to be released. Filmmakers, I think as children of
parents who went through partition and who won't talk about
(22:37):
it so much, a part of our healing is to
understand what happened on a micro level and a macro level.
How did this affect our family in ways that we
have to investigate when they won't talk about it, and
many more people who are also trying to shed light
on the truth about what happened in until now nex Week,
(23:00):
I'm ness and this is Partition. Partition was developed as
a part of the Next Up initiative created by Anna Hosnier,
Joel Monique and Sina Median. Partition is produced by Anna Hosnier,
Tricia Mukerjee and Becca Ramos. It is edited by Rory Gagan,
(23:22):
with the original score composed by Mark Hadley.
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