October 24, 2024 • 44 mins
Shane and Marty welcome the founder of Golf Blueprint, Dr. Nico Darras, to the podcast to discuss his company, taking the guesswork out of practice, how programming differs for pros versus everyday golfers, and tips for young players.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how
much the equipment matters.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I just love that I can hit any shot I
kind of want.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping prooven Grounds podcast.
I'm Shane Bak and joined us always by Marty Jertsen. Marty,
We've got someone that I think has like level IQ
to you on the podcast today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Is that is that fair to say? Are we okay
saying that?
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Marty?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Nico and I have had some fun conversations. Shane, this
is gonna be a fun one, brother.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I mean, I you know, it's a company I'm very
interested in. I've I've heard about it over the years.
Nico Daris is with us from Golf Blueprint and Nico
first and foremost. I think for people that don't know
what Golf Blueprint is, can you just kind of explain
it like you're explain it to somebody at a holiday party,
Like what do you do when you tell them what
(00:51):
you do?
Speaker 5 (00:52):
So whenever that happens, I always say to him, how
long do you have? First and foremost, because that's really
that's really the case.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
This is the Internet, babe. You can go as long
as you.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Of course, So the thirty thousand foot super quick one is.
Golf Blueprint is a data and analytics company. I started
with a friend named doctor Kevin Moore, and originally I
started out as his student. Kind of a funny story
about how we met through a podcast Andy's I know
he's a friend of all of ours on the Frida
Egg and started off as a student. I was a
(01:21):
first semester doctoral student at Education and basically shot him
a cold email said, hey, man, I'm new to golf.
I've been playing two years at that point, playing the
mini tours, and I need help because I'm tired of
getting absolutely waxed in Arizona. Needless to say, shooting seventy
two on the Outlaw Tour wasn't getting it done, and
so Kevi and I started GV together. We have clients
(01:43):
all around the world. We worked with everything from you
know typically like the highest range is like twenty ish handicap,
that's what we like to say, all the way down
to the best players in the world. And we designed
practice plans. That's our main bread and butter. So taking
what someone does well, whether it's through a questionnaire. Obviously
the tour guys are completely different with super hands on,
but for the average member, they fill out a questionnaire
(02:04):
and then from that questionnaire we try to deduce down
essentially areas of the game that they can improve in
super high yield stuff that if you're a dad, if
you're you know, a mom, you have an hour a week,
two hours a week you can try to get better
and more importantly have a little fun nak.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I think that's such an important problem to be solved.
I think every golfer is faced with this dilemma where
you have maybe you have twenty minutes before you go
play to practice. Maybe you're like getting into it, you're
a scratch golfer, your club and you're putting in three
to four hour, three to four good hours a week.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
It's like what do you do with that time? Right?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
So that's basically what Golf Blueprint is doing is trying
to maximize, like you said, the yield or like how
do you structure your time, which I think a lot
of golfers are, even the best players in the world,
which I love to get some stories about that from
you are struggle with that problem, right totally.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
So one thing I think that we all understand and
work around and being with tour guys is they're just
regular people who happen to be freaks at hitting golf balls.
They struggle with the same things, right, They have lives,
they have kids, And as much as everyone has read
the story of you know, the most famous golfer in
the world waking up at four am and running thirteen
miles and then doing an obstacle course and hitting balls
for six hours, you know, probably not the reality for
(03:20):
most guys. They want to get up, they want to
you know, get their workout in, and they want to
be home, right. They want to be able to enjoy
their lives, the same as the country club scratch who's
trying to get a little better. And more importantly to
us that you know, ten to fourteen handicapper that just
like dreams of playing in their club championship, how do
they get better? And I think one of the big
things for us is understanding nerding out here chaos theory,
(03:44):
where yeah, there's a huge, like wide swath of golfers
that all play the game at different levels, but we
really tried to figure out what makes them more similar
and what can we then do to help those players,
because there might be a million reasons you're a ten handicap,
but pretty much deduce you're not a good driver of
the ball as a ten handicap. And so once we
(04:04):
were able to just make those like huge hypothesis guess
and then build a plan and try, it was essentially
trial and error in the beginning to now we feel
relatively confident. I would say, obviously, like this is me
being an academic, where like I will never tell you
I'm super confident in something just because there's two hundred
people out there who are way smarter and better at
what they do. But we feel pretty confident that, like
(04:27):
you said, Marty, those super high yield things, right. I
listened to your podcast with Andrew Rice, Like working on
your driver at the driving range. Everyone makes fun of
that you should be working on your driver at the
driving rade. Yeah, absolutely, Hammer that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
They have a distance. That's the big Northeast issue. I mean,
living in the Northeast, it's like, where can I go
bang drivers? I gotta go out on my golf course.
But Nico, I want to go back to kind of
the start of this because I'm very interested in anybody
that finds a solution for a problem. I mean, Marty,
I've talked about stack over the years. Obviously, I when
you think about the introduction of the Ping company, I
mean it was literally there were issues and problems and
(05:03):
mister Solheim's came up with solutions for those issues. Did
you look around and say there's nothing like this? Were
you looking online trying to find maybe some sort of
a If I have an hour and a half each
week to go out and practice, what should I do?
Because I do find being an adult is extremely intimidating
in terms of getting into something new. People want to
(05:23):
go work out, Where do you start? How do you
do it? How do I break up my time between
leg day and AR and DAYA? What do those days
even mean?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And I even think for good players at times, Hey,
I got to go to the range and work on something.
But what the hell am I doing at the driving
range in terms of my forty five minutes? So did
you dig online initially to see what was out there
in this space and basically come back with no results?
Speaker 5 (05:46):
So as a mega doork, of course, that is my
job as research and I scoured the internet and read
as much as I could, and I came across nothing
really that's stuck, and that was a huge issue. I
come from team sports, so I came from a baseball
backer and played a little in school, and I didn't
have to show up to baseball practice and create my
own plan total. All I had to do was show
(06:07):
up and execute. So then when I was trying to
get better at golf, I did what everyone does, and
I watched Tiger play Tory Pines in two thousand and
you know, just obliterate everybody, and it, for some reason
wasn't helping me shoot lower scores, much to my chagrin.
But then I was like, Okay, how do I structure
my time? Because when I was in school, my time
was so variable. Some days I'd have an hour, some
(06:28):
days i'd have none, some days I'd have three hours.
And I wasn't getting better fast enough. So I had
to close the gap between where I was and where
I wanted to be. And I didn't have time to say, okay,
well I have ten years to do this. Well, I
wanted to get better in two weeks, not ten years,
and so I had to essentially, like you said, solve
the problem of time. How do I structure my practice
(06:51):
so that when I go home, I can say, look,
I actually did something, I got better versus I think
all of us have done this. We show up and
we're like, hey, what am I work on today? And
then you hit a squirrely seven iron, and then forty
five minutes goes by and you've just hit nothing but
seven irons for forty five minutes, and then you have
to go home. And some days that's really you know,
that's effective practice right there. I'm never gonna say there's
(07:13):
no such things as bad practice, but being able to
go home and say, look I accomplished something. I'm working
towards a larger goal. And the biggest thing in my
end is not being reactive to, like I said, that
last shot or that last game, or that last tournament
that you played in all of us that played tournament golf,
or some days you go out there and you flush it.
Other days you show up and you know you chip
(07:34):
terribly well, that might just be an anomaly, or maybe
you are a horrific chipper and you should spend a
little bit more time working on it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Do you iron those things out? Nico within golf blueprint.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I mean, like, let's say Marty was struggling with pitching
the golf ball or I was struggling with putting. Can
you input those types of things within the system and
it will it will. It will give you more time
to focus on the things you struggle on. Is that
part of kind of the AI side of it or whatever?
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Yeah? Yeah, So we absolutely let golfers tell us what
they need. At the end, I mean, we've been through
every iteration of like AI machine learning about you know,
what do we think the player needs? And then finally
we sat down and we're like, why don't we just
let the player tell us what they want to work on?
Like this again, sometimes we solve problems that we don't have.
We're like, oh my goodness, why didn't you just like
start at square one. The tour is a little bit different,
(08:21):
and I will always clarify, like the amateur golfer and
the tour golfer are not playing the same sport as
the three of us, understand. So with the tour guys,
it's my job to kind of push and pull and say, yeah,
I know you think you're about iron player, Actually not
right now, let's spend a little bit more time on
wedges and let's continue working that because those guys tend
to be hyper reactive and ladies. I love my LPGA
(08:43):
girls as well, where they tend to be a little
bit more reactive to what just happened versus my six,
twelve and eighteen pointh goals.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah, Nico, I find myself phoning victim to that, like
recency bias, man play that one tournament, putted bat the
last round or the last three holes.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I'm like, I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
On the planet. Hey, Marty, can I ask you a question?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I want to ask you about, like, how do you
go about as somebody that's competitive and has played this
game for so long, how do you go about your practice?
And I'm assuming it has changed over the years. I
know you're one that's always kind of focused on how
do you maximize every kind of minute you have in
your life across the board? How have you how is
your practice evolved changed? And how do you go about
(09:28):
an hour on the range if you have that time
on a Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Yeah, it's a great question. It's a never ending journey, Shane.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So it's like it's not like I have like the
magic or the secret formula for this. But I try
to be very smart about practicing the most impactful parts
of the game for whatever tournament or event that I
have coming up. So like it's pretty you know, you
know what course you have coming up, Niko. I'm gonna
love getting into some stuff with you on preparing some
tour players for some very specific courses. But I got
(09:56):
a specific course, specific tournament coming up. I play some
term as Shane in Arizona, where the driver's not that important.
I'm gonna be hitting my thriver, my three wood. It's
gonna be all about wedges from ninety to one thirty.
I'll put a lot of time in there. I'll measure it,
launch monitor, and put a lot of focus to that.
I always do like very simple maintenance on my putting,
(10:17):
so like alignment, aims, start line, I call that kind
of maintenance. It's more of the boring block practice you
see all the tour players doing it, and then cycle
it with plenty plenty of like meaningful intent, like randomized
practice that has some results. I put some pressure on
myself and I love playing like nine holes, like I'm
the King of nine Holes. After work, sometimes I'll play
(10:39):
like a worst ball thing out there format. When I
was getting ready for some of the majors in my
home course, Wildfire Shane, I would tee off. I would
go to where my t shot went, literally drive one
hundred yards, back, drop my ball and hit my second
shot in from there. That was a pretty good representation
of like Beth Page of wing. I was gonna say,
that's like Bethpage Black two point out.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
You gotta get a little creative. I mean, that's the
only way you can get to hit the five iron
in there here in some of the Arizona golf.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
That's really really smart. I mean, you know, I think
you know, Nico.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
To Marty's point is we've been twenty we've been twenty five,
we've been thirty, right, and we just continue to go
about our business.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And you know, I'm Marty.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Something I've tried to change personally is not sitting on
the range hitting more than ten shots with one club.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So if I'm hitting ten eight irons, that's that's the
max number I'm gonna hit with the single club, and
then I'm gonna move on. Nico, when you've done a
deep dive into this type of stuff, is there a
number you put on the maximum amount of golf shots
you'd be hitting with a single club or single shot.
Do you do any of that where it's like this
is enough of that club, let's move on.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
So two things, Marty, A number one slam duck like
of all of that. And I also really want to
highlight both of what you said about getting out of
the golf course because this answers your question, Shane, we
only get one shot. Well, theoretically you could pump a
bunch of balls ob off the ta. You can get
as many tries as you want. Believe me, I've been there.
But on the course you're only really getting one shot
at it. And so yes, the idea of random practice
(12:09):
where you're just theoretically constantly cycling through it's not really realistic.
So I don't necessarily have a number. So much as
for my true tour sickos, I basically work them into
two categories. It's either an outcome, so you need to
hit ten seven irons at this target that start two
yards left and they fade into the window, or for
(12:30):
like my Mega Mega megacickos, I make them stop at
a certain amount of time, so I might give them
eight minutes or ten minutes to complete a task, because
otherwise one of my players, in particular, who happen to
be world number one, will stand there until his hands
bleed and he will not do anything else until he's
accomplished that goal. And when you realize why he's will
(12:51):
number one. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But
in terms of again we keep going to that like
high yield practice, we need them to move on from
that task makes them amazing at what they do, but
I still need you to go hit your freaking three
wood for ten minutes, man, Like we're gonna have to
hit that, Like Marty said a bunch of times at
our next event, Let's make sure we're staying on.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Task, Nico. I think one of the big AHA moments
for me. I remember this, like yesterday. It was at
the PGA Championship. I'm on the putting green and I'm
doing my man kind of mindless practice I'm doing. I'm
hitting my my straight in four footers and then I'm
doing some blag putts and I remember Jordan Spieth was
there and camera Cameron McCormick was guiding his practice and
(13:35):
he had his his his watch out on his phone,
you know, he had he had the timer going, and
I heard him saying to Jordan, Okay, we got we
got eight minutes left. And he's walking off and tell
him what putts to hit and they're counting everything, they're
codifying everything, and he was like, okay, he's got eight
minutes left to box in his practice. And I was like, man,
this is no wonder. These guys are different, you know.
(13:55):
And but not everyone is like that, because I've had
friends on tour that show up at the putting Green
and they're like, oh, everyone's banging in straight putts, let
me go do that. That must be what I need
to do. And they're kind of lost as well. So
even some of the tour players are kind of probably
you know, kind of confused on what is the best
(14:16):
way to spend that time, especially on the putting green.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Right, totally tour pros. Like we said, they're normal human
beings too, right, I wouldn't have a job if everyone
was able to structure their own practice and be able
to manage their time effectively. And I think one of
the biggest things that Cameron, you know, Cameron's a friend
and does great work with but Jordan is that being
able to just allow that player's brain to turn off
that they don't have to plan something. All they're doing
(14:40):
is executing. Especially tournament week, your only jobs put the
ball in the hole, have other people take care of
all the distractions and get rid of all of the
side things so that you just have a clear green
light to executing. I'm going to do this, I'm going
to do that, and then I'm going to go play.
How relaxing would that be versus you know, the three
(15:00):
of us were our own caddy and then we're doing this,
and you know, I'm probably filming on Instagram video and
thinking about whatever else I'm having for dinner that night,
and then it's no wonder I go shoot seventy six. Right,
It's a little bit of a different strategy, Marty.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I ran into that at the Amateur last year. I
remember that. I you know, I've.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Played in tournaments and I've had I you know, I
don't travel much for golf anymore like for golf tournament golf, Right,
I mean, I just don't. I'm not gonna go travel much.
I'm gonna go maybe play two tournaments a year on
the road. And I found myself to your point, Nico
kind of looking around, you know, I look, I was
looking around at other people what they were doing. And
(15:38):
then I'd go back to the hotel thinking should I
be back at the range? And I might go back
to the range. But Nico, I think this is where
golf blueprints started. In theory is even if I go
back to the range, I have no plan. I'm gonna
go hit some shots and and and there's likelihood I
might find something bad in the golf swing versus finding
(15:59):
answers that I don't even know what I'm looking for.
When you, guys, first, I wanted to ask when was
the aha moment with a tour player? Like when did
you have the first person that reached out to you
guys and you were like, oh my goodness, this is
somebody that matters. And when that when the steady stream
started to come from the big time players and from
people that mattered. How how stressful was that to lay
(16:21):
out plans for these people that are at a level
of golf most people don't understand.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
So I can tell you to two funny stories without names.
So the first tor pro, that kind of big name
we got in, he called us, we resumed him. He
was in the drive through with his wife and we're like,
what is going on, Like just the most classic like
chaotic dude who just is the biggest free soul and
the greatest human in the planet. And we're like, what
do you do for practice? He's like, yo, God is
(16:46):
my witness. He goes, well, I get there and I
start with a five iron, and you know, if I
hit a couple of good ones, I go play and
I'm like, looking, I have this whole stats presentation everything.
I'm like, I'm like pouring over the data, and I
was like, hey man, you actually hopping to be number
one last year on tour, from like one seventy five
to two hundred, so you probably hit it pretty good
most days of the five iron, right. He goes well, yeah,
(17:08):
I go so you don't practice then, right? He goes well,
not really, actually just cracked up where we're like, okay,
like totally took the veil of like, oh my gosh,
it's the tour into just all right. These are regular
dudes who are really good at their job. And the
second piece is is that first kind of big aha
moment of this actually works. I always laugh. Everyone I've
(17:28):
ever worked with is better than me at the game
of golf. So everybody that I've worked with, I'm terrified
of course that you know, hopefully this works, hopefully it will,
hopefully it won't. And that's just confidence now in having
done it for a couple of years, where you're like, hey,
you know what, I think this first plan is going
to be a good guess and I think that some
of these games are gonna work for you. But more
(17:49):
importantly the ones that don't, you need to tell me why,
because on my end, look, we have the greatest hits.
We met a T shirt. It was hilarious. It's Golf
Blueprint's greatest hits with all of our game, and there's
a really good chance that death taxes in the nine
iron will clean up your short game. But for some
players it might be a disaster, and we need to
(18:09):
know why. And that kind of combo of having the
confidence to send something and say I believe this is
going to work, but also the mental elasticity to hear, hey, man,
this one sucked and here's why, and not have the
ego to judge that player, but just to listen, say
all right, man, hey, tell me about why you know
you didn't like it. Well, maybe they're working on a
(18:30):
draw pattern with their coach and we gave them hit
three fades and they just don't want to do it.
Totally okay by.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Me, Niko, Do you work with a lot of college
teams high school teams? I mean this sounds like perfect
for you know, if I'm on a golf team, you know,
you show up to practice or your schedule is a
little bit different with labs or things of that nature.
How much work do you guys do with juniors or
colleges high schools?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
So I'll separate juniors and colleges out a little bit.
I do not work with juniors, and I'm very clear
about that because I'm really afraid that if I'm not there,
golf blueprint in the wrong hands is a disaster because
for a parent who takes this to the extreme, they're
going to blow past my ten minute you know, time
(19:13):
meter and that kid. I don't want a kid to
be stuck there doing a drill for three hours when
it's only meant to be ten minutes. So, Kevin, I
made a decision very early on that, Hey, listen, we're
not going to do juniors. If a parent buys it
for their kid, obviously great. We hope that they follow
the directions. The last thing I want is for someone
in ten years to play on tour and be like, dude,
you maybe do those drills forever. I'm like, no, dude,
(19:36):
it was the opposite. But yeah, we have some great
relationships with college teams. Those are grown Those are grown
men and grown women who are able to hopefully manage
their time. And that's more of a consulting thing that
we do for fun, not necessarily a part of the business,
just more as you know, we've made some great inroads
with college coaches.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Nico.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
You mentioned the hit shirt, and I don't want you
to get two deep in the weeks because obviously you
want people to go out and and some describe and
buy golf Blueprint, But can you just maybe lay out
a couple of the most popular programs you guys give
to players. What that might look like to not a
professional player, but maybe a single digit handicap or somebody
that's a twelve thirteen handicap trying to improve totally.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
And I will also preface this by saying I'm not
a great businessman, and then I give everything away on
my Instagram. So if you're if you're falling out private,
you can follow up. You've probably seen enough golf blueprints
or my daily posts to just watch what I'm doing.
So I always clarify that to people that if money
is an issue, shoot us an email. We'd love to
help you. Like, we didn't get into the golf business
(20:38):
to make money. This was keV had another job at
another job. We did it because we loved it, and
we also then created a business out of it. So
I always clarify that piece. But the most important games
that I found at the tour level are wedge play,
because especially for super high speed guys, they have a
hard time dumping that speed. I know, Marty and I've
(20:59):
talked a lot about ball speed, and everyone wants to
drive the Ferrari down the Autobahn at two hundred, nobody
wants to drive it in a school zone at thirty five,
where there's massive consequences, and that's wedge play. So the
tours wedge play. We talk a lot about that. The amateurs.
We find a ton of gains in short game and
driving those obviously approach plays. Huge wedges are huge. Putting's huge,
(21:22):
but getting someone to be able to drive the ball
accurately enough enough is the keyword as an amateur, and
then be able to just kind of clean up the
short game. Not good, not great. So for example, a
driving game for those people at home. You pick two
targets out in the air roughly sixty yards and hit
ten balls. See how many you hit and play. I mean,
(21:44):
these are the most basic ground level things you can
do when you're chipping. Hit three balls, how many of
them were within six feet? You know, fifty to fifty.
So these are all the kind of things that you
can do at home without ever subscribing to golf blueprint
that I hope someone would take away from social media
or a podcast like.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
This and Nico, those are great. They don't require a
launch monitor, any measurement stuff. I mean, you can go
to any range, any chip and green do these things right.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Absolutely, And a launch monitor is a huge barrier to entry.
I'm fortunate to work with a launch monitor company. I
know how expensive they are. I know how expensive all
these things are, and more importantly, how expensive are range balls.
I went to a public course the other day in
South Florida and paid twenty dollars for seventy balls. Of
those seventy balls. Probably ten of them were rocks, yea,
you know the other twenty of them didn't fly straight.
(22:34):
And so you sit there and you say to people like, well,
how can I get better? You need to be able
to maximize your time. And I always say this, chipping
and putting's free. You know, you could show up to
a place chip and putt and you can get really
good at that for no cost.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
My kids and I would just watch the Full Swing
episode with Tony Fee now and there and he went
to his house in Utah and that you know, his
dad's like they went to see his garage, had all
the dings in it, and he would hit balls all week.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Couldn't afford rain and be like, hey, every Sunday we
go chip and putt. It was free.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Love it. Love that because it's a huge barrier to
entry unfortunately for people. Yeah, there's things that are changing
that with eGolf and sim golf and whatnot, but as
it stands right now, you know, driving range balls can
be expensive at a public place.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And not getting cheaper.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I mean I find you know, Marty, you know it's
so interesting and I mean, obviously you know you live
in Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I was talking to my uncle.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
A couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the
Driving Range and how it feels like the range that
we knew, Marty, that's a range with grass that has
a lot of targets, maybe has green targets that they
mow down. It feels like that's kind of dying a bit.
I mean a lot of this is going the technological route,
where you know it's kind of got you know, top
tracer things like that, which are great and very fun.
(23:44):
But for a golfer that's trying to find answers in
the dirt, they're not always the best places to go.
I think about Dobson Ranch, Marty, all the time. I mean,
if you think about the old Dobson Ranch range, it
was awesome. You get the jumbo bucket, it was like
eleven bucks. You go out there and hit it a
whole bunch of targets, and now it's really it's rather
expensive to go there, and most of the time you're
hitting off Matt So Niko, I think your point about, Hey,
(24:05):
the short game is where you.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Can save the most strokes on the planet. We all
know that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But if you can go out there and spend half
an hour to your point you're somebody that has a
job and they have children, and they don't have all
the time in the world, but they subscribe to Golf
Blueprint and you give them a lesson plan for half
an hour week on the short game. You can go
do that basically anywhere, even if the greens aren't great.
You can go out there and actually work on certain
things and see how the results come about.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Totally Nico.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I'm gonna ask you a selfish question here, what protocol,
what type of protocol or practice or gamification would you
do for a player who gets really nervous on the
first tea? Because I know you've done some research with
breath work, heart rate variability, how to calm your nervous
system or ramp it up on purpose in practice? Right,
(24:50):
tell us a little bit about your work in that space,
and maybe some tips, tricks or ideas for folks out
there that might.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Get a little shaky on that first shot.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Oh boy, let me tell you, my hands chatter every day,
doesn't matter, they especially over that first three foot little slider.
Maybe it's inside, old boy. So it all started for
me a couple of years ago with one of my
tour players, and they were wearing a whoop band. I
have a partnership with them, so free ads on that behalf.
I will always clarify. And I was watching his heart
(25:23):
rate over a six footer with a chance to tie,
and this put would have changed his life. He had
a chance to tie. He didn't have a lot of status,
and he didn't sniff the cup. And I looked back
and it was one hundred and forty six over that
six foot putt, and I was like, whoa, wait a second,
you know there's something here. And in Phoenix, one of
my closest friends was Special Forces and I was telling
him the story and he was like, dude, we used
(25:45):
to do heart rate work all the time. And it
just kicked off this basically year long deep dive of
researching every single thing that I possibly could on the
correlation between heart rate and performance and where do where
does the the basic X Y axis For those of
you who aren't listening, my fingers are in an X
Y axis of Okay, we know that we can't perform
(26:07):
at sixty hard. Your heart rate at sixty is not
going to perform. You're just you're not in competition. You're
probably sitting on your couch but we also know that
at one hundred and fifty you start to lose control
of your fingertips, that they go a little bit numb.
Things start to change, you know, your decision making starts
to cloud. And so it was essentially trying to figure
out through just massive trial and error of doing it
(26:29):
on myself, jamming my heart rate up with burpies, listening
to metal music at full blast, and just really uncomfortable
hours and hours and hours on the range of figuring
out not only where do I play, but then what
can I replicate for other players so that they can
try their best, because it's never going to be the same, right.
But I always use the analogy we take a seventeen
(26:50):
eighteen year old kid off the street and two years
later they become a functioning Navy seal. Why is it
that we don't believe that in golf you can go
from having never played to being able to perform. You
could train someone to perform. Essentially, I always say, by
keeping your finger over the flame, you'll start to go numb.
And for me, every single person that I play with
(27:13):
is better than me at golf every single day. They're
all tour pros, that's who I play with, and I
got tired of freaking out every day over those three footers,
and I said to myself, yes, I want to get
better mentally, I want to get better physically, But what's
this kind of third missing piece that I don't quite understand?
How come I freak out every single day? And finally
(27:37):
I just got to the point where I said, you
know what, I can't change it. I'm gonna accept it. Now.
I look at things as a bell curve. Ten to
twenty days a year, I am flushing it. I slept
eight hours, I had a great breakfast, Everything went right.
My favorite song was on the radio. Ten to twenty
days a year. My arms feel like an octopus. I
hit nothing but Al hose L's and oh dear, life
(28:00):
is a disaster. Most days are somewhere in the middle.
How do we manage that day to day?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
In golf, Marty, I wanted to ask, Uh, what's the
most nervous you've ever been on the first tea? What's
the most nervous first tea in your life?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (28:15):
It was.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Twenty eleven PGA Championship first t shot, and it's because
I went into that event.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Shane.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
The course, the course, was tough Atlanta Athletic Club. Like
there's holes with water, some holes. The course is obviously
very long and penalizing. I didn't sleep good the night before.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I wasn't particularly hitting it good in my practice rounds.
Obviously that could change, but I was like, I just
I was a nervous wreck. And I get on that
first tee and it's not a driver hole. It's like
you got to turn a three wood. I really wish
I had my driver.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
I'm my driver. Oh gosh, it was. It was all
day long.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I kept thinking, how can I hit a driver on
this hole? It's just not a driver and so that
was the kicker. So I had to hit a three
when I blocked it over in the right raugh hitting
the bunker made a bogie. Oh man, But that.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Was the.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
Is the scariest shot in golf. You're on the first tea.
I was talking to one of my tour guys who
played in the Brookline Open, and same story for him,
first major, getting up there, just shaking, and he said
he hit a driver off the shaft, and I mean
he said he didn't get any of the club face,
and he's like, dude, I think I hit this thing
two hundred and thirty six yards and everyone clapped and
(29:35):
I was like, goodness, gracious, get me out of here, Marty.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
This is the Thriver. I mean, this is one of
the River's the plane. It's just like one of the
first teams.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
By the way, Marty, I don't know if you deal
with this, but a few a few days ago, I
was playing with a friend of mine could not understand
the Thriver thing, and then every time I hit the
Thriver he would he could never get which one was?
Which did you get to pick? There was at the driver.
I just want to almost get like the Bubba Pink
one for my driver, so people will like truly understand
(30:06):
the difference. But I guarantee you, since we've started this podcast, Marty,
I think I've personally sold fifty Thrivers because once once
people understand the benefit of not having it three with
when you don't want to throw it off the team.
But dude, that Marty, that makes me nervous thinking about it.
It's like first t shots, super nervy, like playing the
Amutur last year. First holl was Colorado Golf Club six
(30:28):
fifty par five. It's like, listen, I get to swing
as hard as I can out of at least I
know that I know I can at least do this,
and that's the that's the that's the good thing, Nico.
I want to go back to tour players for just
a moment, because you get a tour player that approaches
you about golf Blueprint. Then you see success with a
tour player that's using golf blueprint. What's the you don't
(30:49):
have the name names, but like, what's the biggest compliment
you've received from the highest level of player about what
you've done for their mental game or physical game, or
just the way they've gone about like off weeks or
spending time in their game.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
The biggest compliment ever was watching an interview and someone
asked a question about a really particular knee high shot
at a very famous golf club in Georgia that has
played typically in April.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Okay, never heard of it, Yeah, never heard of it.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
And the guy said, I've hit that shot before in
practice for the last two months, and I'm getting to
hear that was so freaking cool and just be able
to go wow, dude. That translated like when a pro
says I've hit that shot that's everything Like that is
so rewarding because, like Marty said, you you plan out
your weeks and we all plan like, all right, I'm
gonna hit it here, I'm gonna hit it there. Well,
(31:38):
I'm not that good at executing, and so sometimes I do,
but they often do. And so to be able to
plan and then execute on your game plan is just
so rewarding. Everyone who's played a round of golf where
you know you're looking where you're hitting it. God, what
a good feeling and how fun is the game when
when you're doing that.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
I think about this Nico that you know, I think,
day in and day out, if there wasn't that tournament
in April and augusta, you know, I think your your
average tour player could go through the rest of the
year hitting the balls straight, hitting a little cut, but
that one tournament there is you know, demands and the
tour players have you they literally have all winter to
(32:21):
think about that, you know, if that's their penultimate goal
is to win the Masters, there are specific shots you
need to pull off there, right, absolutely, So how do
you weave that in like preparing one of the best
players in the world, whether it's for that tournament, or
another one weave in where they have to practice a
(32:41):
certain shot but not overdo it, Like if I were
practicing for Augusta. It's not like I'm going to hit
draws all day long and change my whole pattern.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Raws. You just need it a couple times, right, how
do you weave that? Weave that in?
Speaker 5 (32:56):
So there's two ways to look at it. There's the
way that you can struct your practice so that let's
say three months out, two months out, a month out,
a couple of weeks out. That's a huge and easy
way to do it so that you essentially just ramp up.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
It's like Madill exactly.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Same same deal, where you're gonna say, all right, you
know we're gonna spend a little extra time on three
woods a thriver for that course would be amazing. Being
able to turn it, love, I think you sold fifty one.
I'm free to get one after this.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Come on, come on, I know it, guy. I know
a guy.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Yeah, I think I think we know a guy. So
be able to manage that and then essentially understanding like
where's that player at on tour? Are they world number one?
Who can focus on the majors? Because this is going
to be a shocker to people at home. The week
two weeks are important, but the majors matter most when
you're at that level. Now, if you're number one twenty
(33:45):
five and you need to get inside that top seventy five,
all of a sudden, the off week, you know, the
opposite field event that is your major because you need
to perform. You don't have the ability to say, you
know what, two shots inside the cut line and I'm
gonna work that draw right here. You can't do that
because you need to perform. Every day is the single
(34:06):
most important event of your life when you're playing for
your life every day. So it's understanding where that player's
at and then their own risk tolerance, right because, like
you said, they don't just hit one yard fades. I
know it's going to be shocking out there to people
at home, but they're not robots. People work the ball
both ways. And what's the individual player's risk tolerance to say,
(34:27):
you know what, I know in a couple months, I'm
gonna have to hit this one. Let's work on that now.
I've seen that shot and every round is important. But
to the best players in the world, you have a
little bit more luxury and being able to play with
a shot here, play with a shot there.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Uh Nico, I want to I want to ask about
the everyday golfer and just the plan. You know, somebody
who's listening to this podcast, they want to sign up
for Golf Blueprint. How far out are you structuring plans
for people that are the everyday golfer, not the tour
pro that want to be a part of this. Is
this like weeks in advance, months in advance, Like how
far out are your structuring their plans for their practice?
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Yeah, so when they first sign up, they're able to
just fill out a questionnaire and again kind of tell
us what they want, right, what do you want out
of this? Because at the end of the day, learner
empowered instruction is just, in my opinion, the way to go.
If I was going to go get a guitar lesson,
I want to learn how to play Metallica. I don't
want to learn how to play you know, classic rock whatever.
I want to learn Metallica. And so we always say
to people like, tell us what you want. That's huge,
(35:27):
and then give us the more information that you have.
If you have access to a launch ponditor, if you
have access to stats. If you have a handicap, tell us,
tell us what you're good at, tell us what you
struggle at, and then that first month will give them
essentially our best guess. We always like to say that
by the end of month three we're typically pretty good
and dialed in. But that's where we can really start
(35:48):
to dial that upp a more and say, okay, hey, look,
you know you want a little more short game. Fine,
we'll tweak that algorithm to give you that. But also
we have to understand that human beings are poor self assent,
and at the end of the day, our job is
to hold the reins of that and say, look, we
know you, all of a sudden you figured out your driver,
but we're not going to stop hitting drivers now and
(36:11):
just go all to work on putters, because we do
that as human beings, right, We over emphasize one area
of the game, and then all of a sudden we
forget about how to hit a seven iron and now
we need to hit a seven iron on a part three.
So it's that kind of push pull that that we
work really hard on the amateur side with to work
with them more importantly on their goals outcome and process.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Niko, if you could give advice to.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Fifteen year old golfer, you know, just maybe just giving
giving up a couple of his other sports basketball, baseball,
and wants to go all in on golf.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
What tips would you give? Would you give like a
youngster out there?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Oh that's a good question. Uh, I'm gonna take this
from a speed perspective with you guys and stacks, tons
of tour guys at Stack get fast number one, because
when we're evaluating players, basically, speed is a yes or no.
Do you have X amount of ball speed or do
you not? Now there's some dudes that play at one
(37:11):
fifty five, one sixty on tour. They are anomalies. If
you have one hundred and eighty nine hour ball speed,
life is just easier. It's just easier to play on tour. Now.
There's also a bell curve on the other end, something
we can talk about. But for that kid, I would say,
remaining athletic is so freaking important. If you could play
other sports, great. All the parents want to specialize their
(37:31):
kids at nine, ten, eleven years old. It freaks me
out personally. I think you lose a lot of athleticism
and I think you gain a lot in playing other sports. Now,
if you're going to go be world number one at seventeen,
hey man, I understand that. But if you're going to
play college golf, be clear about your own goals. Hey,
my goal is to play Division one college golf. Great,
there's also Division two, there's Division three, there's a NAIA,
(37:54):
there's JUCO. Playing Division one. Isn't the end all be off?
You don't go to the number one school in the country.
That's okay golf. You can make it in a million
different ways. To me, I would advise them to fall
in love with the game and more importantly, fall in
love with the process, because being good at sixteen is cool.
You make a lot more money at twenty six now
(38:14):
with nil. Hey man, I don't know. There's a h Yeah, listen,
there's a bunch of dieteen yearls that drive lambos. So
maybe I'm an old boomer, but my advice is, hey, listen,
you're gonna win a lot of majors at twenty six.
Try to develop and learn skills, take risks. It's okay
to hit the ball both ways. It's okay to swing
as hard as you can and miss with a driver,
(38:35):
It's okay to try that crazy flop shot when you're fifteen.
I want to see someone who can develop, because by
the time you get to me, I don't work with kids.
I work with the best players in the world. By
the time you get to me, those days are over.
Now it's your job. Now it's a grind, and you're
coming to me trying to have fun, enjoy it with
your buddies, spend the extra hour. You know, you don't
(38:55):
know any responsibilities, you know, owt any bills. Mom and
dad are paying for your entry fee. Life is pretty
good at that age.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I think your point is such a great one, Niko,
about you know, you might have goals if you don't
check that box, don't give up. Maybe now you got
to just adjust. Maybe maybe you got to adjust what
you're going to do here and there. And there are
different paths to this, right, and I think that's what
makes every sport cool. You know, when those those NFL
offenses will list off the colleges to start the game,
(39:23):
it's not all Baama, LSU in Texas, right, you got
North Dakota State. You know, you got these random colleges
that will pop in. You know, from time to time,
and it's just a reminder that you can get there
down a different road.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
You might just have to work a little bit harder
down that road.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
Totally. Yeah, there's there's a million opportunities in golf. There's
an interesting question that I've heard a really famous I've
heard Claude Harmon say to mini tour guys a lot
and he'll ask them, He'll say, why aren't you playing
on the tour And they'll give a million different reasons
and I need to do this, and he goes, no,
you're not playing on tours. You're not good enough. We
have Monday qualifiers and you can show up and play.
This isn't like the MLB or NFL draft to where
(40:00):
you have to play at a certain school, get drafted,
go to the combine. There's nothing holding you back from
going and shooting sixty one and playing in the big
leagues that week. Think about it. I can't go to
a baseball game, have a sick home run derby batting
practice and you know, back forth behind John Carlos Stanton Like,
it doesn't work that way. But in golf we still
have the most amazing democratic process of a Monday qualifier.
(40:22):
If you can afford the couple hundred bucks, which by
the way, I think is way too high. But that's
neither here nor there. And you could show up and play.
You get to play on tour. That is the most
amazing thing in the world to me, And I think
it freaks me out that kids have. If I don't
do this, then I'm done. No, man, you always have
the opportunity to play professional golf. There's nothing stopping you.
(40:44):
It's objective. If you could shoot the score, you get
to play.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I think it's the line from Tim Cupbardy. I mean,
you know, it's like like I mean, you know. I mean,
I'm gonna go out and try to get into the
US Open, right, I mean if my score is better
than you, and it it's golf can be so intimidating,
but at the end of the day, it is so
silly that it is that simple, right Marty. It's like,
if I shoot sixty seven and you shoot sixty at eight,
I beat you.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It doesn't matter who you are.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Now you're better than me, So you're gonna shoot better
than me almost every time. But I put in the
time and the work, and I find a plan, and
I find the right equipment and stuff that fits me,
and I literally invest in what I want to become.
There might be an opportunity there for me to become
that one day.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yep. I love Nico fall in love with the process. Man.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I just it reminds me of you know, Victor. You know,
is that his ups and downs and highs and lows.
But you can see how much he just loves the process,
you know, and so.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Loves the heavy metal too. Nico was saying, try to
get that hard going. I know, you gotta get this
the beats going in the headphone, dude.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
So a funny thing for me is I figured out
very quickly I actually like metals, so it had a
reverse effect. And then I started listening to jazz, which
just was the worst for me. Chams my art, right,
I get all cranky, start hitting chunk wedges and thin
in three woods. I'm a mess out there with jazz.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Everybody's calming down at jazz, and you're just like you're
at your end. You're like, I have done, Nico.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Let people know where they can check out, you know,
what you guys are doing, How they can get involved plans,
they can look at what's kind of the process for
somebody lifting into the podcast.
Speaker 5 (42:13):
So easiest way to find us is social at golf Underscore,
Underscore Blueprint. I am responding to all the messages. For
better or worse, you're gonna get me. If you send
us an email, you're gonna get the professor keV golf
blueprint dot com. And please reach out to us. I
always say to people. I live in Jupiter, I travel
a lot. If you see me on the range, come
up and talk to me, Come say hi. And if
(42:33):
you see someone who's who's better than you at the range,
they're probably stoked to talk to you as well. So
I always trying to tell that people like please reach
out to me. However, I can help you whatever whatever
we can do to to make golf more fun, because
at the end of the day, like like we talked about,
if you're having more fun, you'll practice more. If you
practice more, you're probably gonna play a little better.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I think the I think the point on asking people
questions is, you know, it's an intimidating thing even as
an adult.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
The kind of going back to the gym analogy.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
You know, you can go up to the biggest most
jack guy in the planet. If he's at the gym,
and if you're asking that guy what they're doing, I've
done it plenty of times in my life. They will
give you an honest answer. They're not gonna look at
you like you're an idiot. They're they're actually to help
you because you're interested in what they're doing, because you
obviously are seeing whatever gains they're getting out of that.
And the same thing can be said at the golf course.
(43:19):
You know, you go up to somebody that's working on
something that are hitting the ball great or you know,
is really good, like I mean, Marty. There are these
stories of VJ seeing helping out these young players that
are up and coming trying to make it on the tour,
and the stories are excellent, but it's also part of
what golf. What makes golf so great is it does
feel like people are willing to help out. I mean,
remember Steve Stricker giving tips to Tiger about the putting.
(43:39):
You think about Rory this year telling Scottie to go
to the mallet, Like even the best in the world
will help out the other best in the world. It
might don't work out great for everybody else that they
start winning everything, but it seems like people are are
open and willing to talk, so I love that Nico,
and I love what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
It's super cool.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thank you so much for your time on the POT.
I hope people check out golf. We're going to help
people get something out of this, so thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
Appreciate you guys, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
This is the Ping Driven Grounds podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
H
The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how
much the equipment matters.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I just love that I can hit any shot I
kind of want.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping prooven Grounds podcast.
I'm Shane Bak and joined us always by Marty Jertsen. Marty,
We've got someone that I think has like level IQ
to you on the podcast today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Is that is that fair to say? Are we okay
saying that?
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Marty?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Nico and I have had some fun conversations. Shane, this
is gonna be a fun one, brother.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I mean, I you know, it's a company I'm very
interested in. I've I've heard about it over the years.
Nico Daris is with us from Golf Blueprint and Nico
first and foremost. I think for people that don't know
what Golf Blueprint is, can you just kind of explain
it like you're explain it to somebody at a holiday party,
Like what do you do when you tell them what
(00:51):
you do?
Speaker 5 (00:52):
So whenever that happens, I always say to him, how
long do you have? First and foremost, because that's really
that's really the case.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
This is the Internet, babe. You can go as long
as you.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Of course, So the thirty thousand foot super quick one is.
Golf Blueprint is a data and analytics company. I started
with a friend named doctor Kevin Moore, and originally I
started out as his student. Kind of a funny story
about how we met through a podcast Andy's I know
he's a friend of all of ours on the Frida
Egg and started off as a student. I was a
(01:21):
first semester doctoral student at Education and basically shot him
a cold email said, hey, man, I'm new to golf.
I've been playing two years at that point, playing the
mini tours, and I need help because I'm tired of
getting absolutely waxed in Arizona. Needless to say, shooting seventy
two on the Outlaw Tour wasn't getting it done, and
so Kevi and I started GV together. We have clients
(01:43):
all around the world. We worked with everything from you
know typically like the highest range is like twenty ish handicap,
that's what we like to say, all the way down
to the best players in the world. And we designed
practice plans. That's our main bread and butter. So taking
what someone does well, whether it's through a questionnaire. Obviously
the tour guys are completely different with super hands on,
but for the average member, they fill out a questionnaire
(02:04):
and then from that questionnaire we try to deduce down
essentially areas of the game that they can improve in
super high yield stuff that if you're a dad, if
you're you know, a mom, you have an hour a week,
two hours a week you can try to get better
and more importantly have a little fun nak.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I think that's such an important problem to be solved.
I think every golfer is faced with this dilemma where
you have maybe you have twenty minutes before you go
play to practice. Maybe you're like getting into it, you're
a scratch golfer, your club and you're putting in three
to four hour, three to four good hours a week.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
It's like what do you do with that time? Right?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
So that's basically what Golf Blueprint is doing is trying
to maximize, like you said, the yield or like how
do you structure your time, which I think a lot
of golfers are, even the best players in the world,
which I love to get some stories about that from
you are struggle with that problem, right totally.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
So one thing I think that we all understand and
work around and being with tour guys is they're just
regular people who happen to be freaks at hitting golf balls.
They struggle with the same things, right, They have lives,
they have kids, And as much as everyone has read
the story of you know, the most famous golfer in
the world waking up at four am and running thirteen
miles and then doing an obstacle course and hitting balls
for six hours, you know, probably not the reality for
(03:20):
most guys. They want to get up, they want to
you know, get their workout in, and they want to
be home, right. They want to be able to enjoy
their lives, the same as the country club scratch who's
trying to get a little better. And more importantly to
us that you know, ten to fourteen handicapper that just
like dreams of playing in their club championship, how do
they get better? And I think one of the big
things for us is understanding nerding out here chaos theory,
(03:44):
where yeah, there's a huge, like wide swath of golfers
that all play the game at different levels, but we
really tried to figure out what makes them more similar
and what can we then do to help those players,
because there might be a million reasons you're a ten handicap,
but pretty much deduce you're not a good driver of
the ball as a ten handicap. And so once we
(04:04):
were able to just make those like huge hypothesis guess
and then build a plan and try, it was essentially
trial and error in the beginning to now we feel
relatively confident. I would say, obviously, like this is me
being an academic, where like I will never tell you
I'm super confident in something just because there's two hundred
people out there who are way smarter and better at
what they do. But we feel pretty confident that, like
(04:27):
you said, Marty, those super high yield things, right. I
listened to your podcast with Andrew Rice, Like working on
your driver at the driving range. Everyone makes fun of
that you should be working on your driver at the
driving rade. Yeah, absolutely, Hammer that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
They have a distance. That's the big Northeast issue. I mean,
living in the Northeast, it's like, where can I go
bang drivers? I gotta go out on my golf course.
But Nico, I want to go back to kind of
the start of this because I'm very interested in anybody
that finds a solution for a problem. I mean, Marty,
I've talked about stack over the years. Obviously, I when
you think about the introduction of the Ping company, I
mean it was literally there were issues and problems and
(05:03):
mister Solheim's came up with solutions for those issues. Did
you look around and say there's nothing like this? Were
you looking online trying to find maybe some sort of
a If I have an hour and a half each
week to go out and practice, what should I do?
Because I do find being an adult is extremely intimidating
in terms of getting into something new. People want to
(05:23):
go work out, Where do you start? How do you
do it? How do I break up my time between
leg day and AR and DAYA? What do those days
even mean?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And I even think for good players at times, Hey,
I got to go to the range and work on something.
But what the hell am I doing at the driving
range in terms of my forty five minutes? So did
you dig online initially to see what was out there
in this space and basically come back with no results?
Speaker 5 (05:46):
So as a mega doork, of course, that is my
job as research and I scoured the internet and read
as much as I could, and I came across nothing
really that's stuck, and that was a huge issue. I
come from team sports, so I came from a baseball
backer and played a little in school, and I didn't
have to show up to baseball practice and create my
own plan total. All I had to do was show
(06:07):
up and execute. So then when I was trying to
get better at golf, I did what everyone does, and
I watched Tiger play Tory Pines in two thousand and
you know, just obliterate everybody, and it, for some reason
wasn't helping me shoot lower scores, much to my chagrin.
But then I was like, Okay, how do I structure
my time? Because when I was in school, my time
was so variable. Some days I'd have an hour, some
(06:28):
days i'd have none, some days I'd have three hours.
And I wasn't getting better fast enough. So I had
to close the gap between where I was and where
I wanted to be. And I didn't have time to say, okay,
well I have ten years to do this. Well, I
wanted to get better in two weeks, not ten years,
and so I had to essentially, like you said, solve
the problem of time. How do I structure my practice
(06:51):
so that when I go home, I can say, look,
I actually did something, I got better versus I think
all of us have done this. We show up and
we're like, hey, what am I work on today? And
then you hit a squirrely seven iron, and then forty
five minutes goes by and you've just hit nothing but
seven irons for forty five minutes, and then you have
to go home. And some days that's really you know,
that's effective practice right there. I'm never gonna say there's
(07:13):
no such things as bad practice, but being able to
go home and say, look I accomplished something. I'm working
towards a larger goal. And the biggest thing in my
end is not being reactive to, like I said, that
last shot or that last game, or that last tournament
that you played in all of us that played tournament golf,
or some days you go out there and you flush it.
Other days you show up and you know you chip
(07:34):
terribly well, that might just be an anomaly, or maybe
you are a horrific chipper and you should spend a
little bit more time working on it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Do you iron those things out? Nico within golf blueprint.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I mean, like, let's say Marty was struggling with pitching
the golf ball or I was struggling with putting. Can
you input those types of things within the system and
it will it will. It will give you more time
to focus on the things you struggle on. Is that
part of kind of the AI side of it or whatever?
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Yeah? Yeah, So we absolutely let golfers tell us what
they need. At the end, I mean, we've been through
every iteration of like AI machine learning about you know,
what do we think the player needs? And then finally
we sat down and we're like, why don't we just
let the player tell us what they want to work on?
Like this again, sometimes we solve problems that we don't have.
We're like, oh my goodness, why didn't you just like
start at square one. The tour is a little bit different,
(08:21):
and I will always clarify, like the amateur golfer and
the tour golfer are not playing the same sport as
the three of us, understand. So with the tour guys,
it's my job to kind of push and pull and say, yeah,
I know you think you're about iron player, Actually not
right now, let's spend a little bit more time on
wedges and let's continue working that because those guys tend
to be hyper reactive and ladies. I love my LPGA
(08:43):
girls as well, where they tend to be a little
bit more reactive to what just happened versus my six,
twelve and eighteen pointh goals.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah, Nico, I find myself phoning victim to that, like
recency bias, man play that one tournament, putted bat the
last round or the last three holes.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I'm like, I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
On the planet. Hey, Marty, can I ask you a question?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I want to ask you about, like, how do you
go about as somebody that's competitive and has played this
game for so long, how do you go about your practice?
And I'm assuming it has changed over the years. I
know you're one that's always kind of focused on how
do you maximize every kind of minute you have in
your life across the board? How have you how is
your practice evolved changed? And how do you go about
(09:28):
an hour on the range if you have that time
on a Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Yeah, it's a great question. It's a never ending journey, Shane.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So it's like it's not like I have like the
magic or the secret formula for this. But I try
to be very smart about practicing the most impactful parts
of the game for whatever tournament or event that I
have coming up. So like it's pretty you know, you
know what course you have coming up, Niko. I'm gonna
love getting into some stuff with you on preparing some
tour players for some very specific courses. But I got
(09:56):
a specific course, specific tournament coming up. I play some
term as Shane in Arizona, where the driver's not that important.
I'm gonna be hitting my thriver, my three wood. It's
gonna be all about wedges from ninety to one thirty.
I'll put a lot of time in there. I'll measure it,
launch monitor, and put a lot of focus to that.
I always do like very simple maintenance on my putting,
(10:17):
so like alignment, aims, start line, I call that kind
of maintenance. It's more of the boring block practice you
see all the tour players doing it, and then cycle
it with plenty plenty of like meaningful intent, like randomized
practice that has some results. I put some pressure on
myself and I love playing like nine holes, like I'm
the King of nine Holes. After work, sometimes I'll play
(10:39):
like a worst ball thing out there format. When I
was getting ready for some of the majors in my
home course, Wildfire Shane, I would tee off. I would
go to where my t shot went, literally drive one
hundred yards, back, drop my ball and hit my second
shot in from there. That was a pretty good representation
of like Beth Page of wing. I was gonna say,
that's like Bethpage Black two point out.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
You gotta get a little creative. I mean, that's the
only way you can get to hit the five iron
in there here in some of the Arizona golf.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
That's really really smart. I mean, you know, I think
you know, Nico.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
To Marty's point is we've been twenty we've been twenty five,
we've been thirty, right, and we just continue to go
about our business.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And you know, I'm Marty.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Something I've tried to change personally is not sitting on
the range hitting more than ten shots with one club.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So if I'm hitting ten eight irons, that's that's the
max number I'm gonna hit with the single club, and
then I'm gonna move on. Nico, when you've done a
deep dive into this type of stuff, is there a
number you put on the maximum amount of golf shots
you'd be hitting with a single club or single shot.
Do you do any of that where it's like this
is enough of that club, let's move on.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
So two things, Marty, A number one slam duck like
of all of that. And I also really want to
highlight both of what you said about getting out of
the golf course because this answers your question, Shane, we
only get one shot. Well, theoretically you could pump a
bunch of balls ob off the ta. You can get
as many tries as you want. Believe me, I've been there.
But on the course you're only really getting one shot
at it. And so yes, the idea of random practice
(12:09):
where you're just theoretically constantly cycling through it's not really realistic.
So I don't necessarily have a number. So much as
for my true tour sickos, I basically work them into
two categories. It's either an outcome, so you need to
hit ten seven irons at this target that start two
yards left and they fade into the window, or for
(12:30):
like my Mega Mega megacickos, I make them stop at
a certain amount of time, so I might give them
eight minutes or ten minutes to complete a task, because
otherwise one of my players, in particular, who happen to
be world number one, will stand there until his hands
bleed and he will not do anything else until he's
accomplished that goal. And when you realize why he's will
(12:51):
number one. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But
in terms of again we keep going to that like
high yield practice, we need them to move on from
that task makes them amazing at what they do, but
I still need you to go hit your freaking three
wood for ten minutes, man, Like we're gonna have to
hit that, Like Marty said a bunch of times at
our next event, Let's make sure we're staying on.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Task, Nico. I think one of the big AHA moments
for me. I remember this, like yesterday. It was at
the PGA Championship. I'm on the putting green and I'm
doing my man kind of mindless practice I'm doing. I'm
hitting my my straight in four footers and then I'm
doing some blag putts and I remember Jordan Spieth was
there and camera Cameron McCormick was guiding his practice and
(13:35):
he had his his his watch out on his phone,
you know, he had he had the timer going, and
I heard him saying to Jordan, Okay, we got we
got eight minutes left. And he's walking off and tell
him what putts to hit and they're counting everything, they're
codifying everything, and he was like, okay, he's got eight
minutes left to box in his practice. And I was like, man,
this is no wonder. These guys are different, you know.
(13:55):
And but not everyone is like that, because I've had
friends on tour that show up at the putting Green
and they're like, oh, everyone's banging in straight putts, let
me go do that. That must be what I need
to do. And they're kind of lost as well. So
even some of the tour players are kind of probably
you know, kind of confused on what is the best
(14:16):
way to spend that time, especially on the putting green.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Right, totally tour pros. Like we said, they're normal human
beings too, right, I wouldn't have a job if everyone
was able to structure their own practice and be able
to manage their time effectively. And I think one of
the biggest things that Cameron, you know, Cameron's a friend
and does great work with but Jordan is that being
able to just allow that player's brain to turn off
that they don't have to plan something. All they're doing
(14:40):
is executing. Especially tournament week, your only jobs put the
ball in the hole, have other people take care of
all the distractions and get rid of all of the
side things so that you just have a clear green
light to executing. I'm going to do this, I'm going
to do that, and then I'm going to go play.
How relaxing would that be versus you know, the three
(15:00):
of us were our own caddy and then we're doing this,
and you know, I'm probably filming on Instagram video and
thinking about whatever else I'm having for dinner that night,
and then it's no wonder I go shoot seventy six. Right,
It's a little bit of a different strategy, Marty.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I ran into that at the Amateur last year. I
remember that. I you know, I've.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Played in tournaments and I've had I you know, I
don't travel much for golf anymore like for golf tournament golf, Right,
I mean, I just don't. I'm not gonna go travel much.
I'm gonna go maybe play two tournaments a year on
the road. And I found myself to your point, Nico
kind of looking around, you know, I look, I was
looking around at other people what they were doing. And
(15:38):
then I'd go back to the hotel thinking should I
be back at the range? And I might go back
to the range. But Nico, I think this is where
golf blueprints started. In theory is even if I go
back to the range, I have no plan. I'm gonna
go hit some shots and and and there's likelihood I
might find something bad in the golf swing versus finding
(15:59):
answers that I don't even know what I'm looking for.
When you, guys, first, I wanted to ask when was
the aha moment with a tour player? Like when did
you have the first person that reached out to you
guys and you were like, oh my goodness, this is
somebody that matters. And when that when the steady stream
started to come from the big time players and from
people that mattered. How how stressful was that to lay
(16:21):
out plans for these people that are at a level
of golf most people don't understand.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
So I can tell you to two funny stories without names.
So the first tor pro, that kind of big name
we got in, he called us, we resumed him. He
was in the drive through with his wife and we're like,
what is going on, Like just the most classic like
chaotic dude who just is the biggest free soul and
the greatest human in the planet. And we're like, what
do you do for practice? He's like, yo, God is
(16:46):
my witness. He goes, well, I get there and I
start with a five iron, and you know, if I
hit a couple of good ones, I go play and
I'm like, looking, I have this whole stats presentation everything.
I'm like, I'm like pouring over the data, and I
was like, hey man, you actually hopping to be number
one last year on tour, from like one seventy five
to two hundred, so you probably hit it pretty good
most days of the five iron, right. He goes well, yeah,
(17:08):
I go so you don't practice then, right? He goes well,
not really, actually just cracked up where we're like, okay,
like totally took the veil of like, oh my gosh,
it's the tour into just all right. These are regular
dudes who are really good at their job. And the
second piece is is that first kind of big aha
moment of this actually works. I always laugh. Everyone I've
(17:28):
ever worked with is better than me at the game
of golf. So everybody that I've worked with, I'm terrified
of course that you know, hopefully this works, hopefully it will,
hopefully it won't. And that's just confidence now in having
done it for a couple of years, where you're like, hey,
you know what, I think this first plan is going
to be a good guess and I think that some
of these games are gonna work for you. But more
(17:49):
importantly the ones that don't, you need to tell me why,
because on my end, look, we have the greatest hits.
We met a T shirt. It was hilarious. It's Golf
Blueprint's greatest hits with all of our game, and there's
a really good chance that death taxes in the nine
iron will clean up your short game. But for some
players it might be a disaster, and we need to
(18:09):
know why. And that kind of combo of having the
confidence to send something and say I believe this is
going to work, but also the mental elasticity to hear, hey, man,
this one sucked and here's why, and not have the
ego to judge that player, but just to listen, say
all right, man, hey, tell me about why you know
you didn't like it. Well, maybe they're working on a
(18:30):
draw pattern with their coach and we gave them hit
three fades and they just don't want to do it.
Totally okay by.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Me, Niko, Do you work with a lot of college
teams high school teams? I mean this sounds like perfect
for you know, if I'm on a golf team, you know,
you show up to practice or your schedule is a
little bit different with labs or things of that nature.
How much work do you guys do with juniors or
colleges high schools?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
So I'll separate juniors and colleges out a little bit.
I do not work with juniors, and I'm very clear
about that because I'm really afraid that if I'm not there,
golf blueprint in the wrong hands is a disaster because
for a parent who takes this to the extreme, they're
going to blow past my ten minute you know, time
(19:13):
meter and that kid. I don't want a kid to
be stuck there doing a drill for three hours when
it's only meant to be ten minutes. So, Kevin, I
made a decision very early on that, Hey, listen, we're
not going to do juniors. If a parent buys it
for their kid, obviously great. We hope that they follow
the directions. The last thing I want is for someone
in ten years to play on tour and be like, dude,
you maybe do those drills forever. I'm like, no, dude,
(19:36):
it was the opposite. But yeah, we have some great
relationships with college teams. Those are grown Those are grown
men and grown women who are able to hopefully manage
their time. And that's more of a consulting thing that
we do for fun, not necessarily a part of the business,
just more as you know, we've made some great inroads
with college coaches.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Nico.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
You mentioned the hit shirt, and I don't want you
to get two deep in the weeks because obviously you
want people to go out and and some describe and
buy golf Blueprint, But can you just maybe lay out
a couple of the most popular programs you guys give
to players. What that might look like to not a
professional player, but maybe a single digit handicap or somebody
that's a twelve thirteen handicap trying to improve totally.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
And I will also preface this by saying I'm not
a great businessman, and then I give everything away on
my Instagram. So if you're if you're falling out private,
you can follow up. You've probably seen enough golf blueprints
or my daily posts to just watch what I'm doing.
So I always clarify that to people that if money
is an issue, shoot us an email. We'd love to
help you. Like, we didn't get into the golf business
(20:38):
to make money. This was keV had another job at
another job. We did it because we loved it, and
we also then created a business out of it. So
I always clarify that piece. But the most important games
that I found at the tour level are wedge play,
because especially for super high speed guys, they have a
hard time dumping that speed. I know, Marty and I've
(20:59):
talked a lot about ball speed, and everyone wants to
drive the Ferrari down the Autobahn at two hundred, nobody
wants to drive it in a school zone at thirty five,
where there's massive consequences, and that's wedge play. So the
tours wedge play. We talk a lot about that. The amateurs.
We find a ton of gains in short game and
driving those obviously approach plays. Huge wedges are huge. Putting's huge,
(21:22):
but getting someone to be able to drive the ball
accurately enough enough is the keyword as an amateur, and
then be able to just kind of clean up the
short game. Not good, not great. So for example, a
driving game for those people at home. You pick two
targets out in the air roughly sixty yards and hit
ten balls. See how many you hit and play. I mean,
(21:44):
these are the most basic ground level things you can
do when you're chipping. Hit three balls, how many of
them were within six feet? You know, fifty to fifty.
So these are all the kind of things that you
can do at home without ever subscribing to golf blueprint
that I hope someone would take away from social media
or a podcast like.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
This and Nico, those are great. They don't require a
launch monitor, any measurement stuff. I mean, you can go
to any range, any chip and green do these things right.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Absolutely, And a launch monitor is a huge barrier to entry.
I'm fortunate to work with a launch monitor company. I
know how expensive they are. I know how expensive all
these things are, and more importantly, how expensive are range balls.
I went to a public course the other day in
South Florida and paid twenty dollars for seventy balls. Of
those seventy balls. Probably ten of them were rocks, yea,
you know the other twenty of them didn't fly straight.
(22:34):
And so you sit there and you say to people like, well,
how can I get better? You need to be able
to maximize your time. And I always say this, chipping
and putting's free. You know, you could show up to
a place chip and putt and you can get really
good at that for no cost.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
My kids and I would just watch the Full Swing
episode with Tony Fee now and there and he went
to his house in Utah and that you know, his
dad's like they went to see his garage, had all
the dings in it, and he would hit balls all week.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Couldn't afford rain and be like, hey, every Sunday we
go chip and putt. It was free.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Love it. Love that because it's a huge barrier to
entry unfortunately for people. Yeah, there's things that are changing
that with eGolf and sim golf and whatnot, but as
it stands right now, you know, driving range balls can
be expensive at a public place.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And not getting cheaper.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I mean I find you know, Marty, you know it's
so interesting and I mean, obviously you know you live
in Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I was talking to my uncle.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
A couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the
Driving Range and how it feels like the range that
we knew, Marty, that's a range with grass that has
a lot of targets, maybe has green targets that they
mow down. It feels like that's kind of dying a bit.
I mean a lot of this is going the technological route,
where you know it's kind of got you know, top
tracer things like that, which are great and very fun.
(23:44):
But for a golfer that's trying to find answers in
the dirt, they're not always the best places to go.
I think about Dobson Ranch, Marty, all the time. I mean,
if you think about the old Dobson Ranch range, it
was awesome. You get the jumbo bucket, it was like
eleven bucks. You go out there and hit it a
whole bunch of targets, and now it's really it's rather
expensive to go there, and most of the time you're
hitting off Matt So Niko, I think your point about, Hey,
(24:05):
the short game is where you.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Can save the most strokes on the planet. We all
know that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But if you can go out there and spend half
an hour to your point you're somebody that has a
job and they have children, and they don't have all
the time in the world, but they subscribe to Golf
Blueprint and you give them a lesson plan for half
an hour week on the short game. You can go
do that basically anywhere, even if the greens aren't great.
You can go out there and actually work on certain
things and see how the results come about.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Totally Nico.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I'm gonna ask you a selfish question here, what protocol,
what type of protocol or practice or gamification would you
do for a player who gets really nervous on the
first tea? Because I know you've done some research with
breath work, heart rate variability, how to calm your nervous
system or ramp it up on purpose in practice? Right,
(24:50):
tell us a little bit about your work in that space,
and maybe some tips, tricks or ideas for folks out
there that might.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Get a little shaky on that first shot.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Oh boy, let me tell you, my hands chatter every day,
doesn't matter, they especially over that first three foot little slider.
Maybe it's inside, old boy. So it all started for
me a couple of years ago with one of my
tour players, and they were wearing a whoop band. I
have a partnership with them, so free ads on that behalf.
I will always clarify. And I was watching his heart
(25:23):
rate over a six footer with a chance to tie,
and this put would have changed his life. He had
a chance to tie. He didn't have a lot of status,
and he didn't sniff the cup. And I looked back
and it was one hundred and forty six over that
six foot putt, and I was like, whoa, wait a second,
you know there's something here. And in Phoenix, one of
my closest friends was Special Forces and I was telling
him the story and he was like, dude, we used
(25:45):
to do heart rate work all the time. And it
just kicked off this basically year long deep dive of
researching every single thing that I possibly could on the
correlation between heart rate and performance and where do where
does the the basic X Y axis For those of
you who aren't listening, my fingers are in an X
Y axis of Okay, we know that we can't perform
(26:07):
at sixty hard. Your heart rate at sixty is not
going to perform. You're just you're not in competition. You're
probably sitting on your couch but we also know that
at one hundred and fifty you start to lose control
of your fingertips, that they go a little bit numb.
Things start to change, you know, your decision making starts
to cloud. And so it was essentially trying to figure
out through just massive trial and error of doing it
(26:29):
on myself, jamming my heart rate up with burpies, listening
to metal music at full blast, and just really uncomfortable
hours and hours and hours on the range of figuring
out not only where do I play, but then what
can I replicate for other players so that they can
try their best, because it's never going to be the same, right.
But I always use the analogy we take a seventeen
(26:50):
eighteen year old kid off the street and two years
later they become a functioning Navy seal. Why is it
that we don't believe that in golf you can go
from having never played to being able to perform. You
could train someone to perform. Essentially, I always say, by
keeping your finger over the flame, you'll start to go numb.
And for me, every single person that I play with
(27:13):
is better than me at golf every single day. They're
all tour pros, that's who I play with, and I
got tired of freaking out every day over those three footers,
and I said to myself, yes, I want to get
better mentally, I want to get better physically, But what's
this kind of third missing piece that I don't quite understand?
How come I freak out every single day? And finally
(27:37):
I just got to the point where I said, you
know what, I can't change it. I'm gonna accept it. Now.
I look at things as a bell curve. Ten to
twenty days a year, I am flushing it. I slept
eight hours, I had a great breakfast, Everything went right.
My favorite song was on the radio. Ten to twenty
days a year. My arms feel like an octopus. I
hit nothing but Al hose L's and oh dear, life
(28:00):
is a disaster. Most days are somewhere in the middle.
How do we manage that day to day?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
In golf, Marty, I wanted to ask, Uh, what's the
most nervous you've ever been on the first tea? What's
the most nervous first tea in your life?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (28:15):
It was.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Twenty eleven PGA Championship first t shot, and it's because
I went into that event.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Shane.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
The course, the course, was tough Atlanta Athletic Club. Like
there's holes with water, some holes. The course is obviously
very long and penalizing. I didn't sleep good the night before.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I wasn't particularly hitting it good in my practice rounds.
Obviously that could change, but I was like, I just
I was a nervous wreck. And I get on that
first tee and it's not a driver hole. It's like
you got to turn a three wood. I really wish
I had my driver.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
I'm my driver. Oh gosh, it was. It was all
day long.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I kept thinking, how can I hit a driver on
this hole? It's just not a driver and so that
was the kicker. So I had to hit a three
when I blocked it over in the right raugh hitting
the bunker made a bogie. Oh man, But that.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Was the.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
Is the scariest shot in golf. You're on the first tea.
I was talking to one of my tour guys who
played in the Brookline Open, and same story for him,
first major, getting up there, just shaking, and he said
he hit a driver off the shaft, and I mean
he said he didn't get any of the club face,
and he's like, dude, I think I hit this thing
two hundred and thirty six yards and everyone clapped and
(29:35):
I was like, goodness, gracious, get me out of here, Marty.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
This is the Thriver. I mean, this is one of
the River's the plane. It's just like one of the
first teams.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
By the way, Marty, I don't know if you deal
with this, but a few a few days ago, I
was playing with a friend of mine could not understand
the Thriver thing, and then every time I hit the
Thriver he would he could never get which one was?
Which did you get to pick? There was at the driver.
I just want to almost get like the Bubba Pink
one for my driver, so people will like truly understand
(30:06):
the difference. But I guarantee you, since we've started this podcast, Marty,
I think I've personally sold fifty Thrivers because once once
people understand the benefit of not having it three with
when you don't want to throw it off the team.
But dude, that Marty, that makes me nervous thinking about it.
It's like first t shots, super nervy, like playing the
Amutur last year. First holl was Colorado Golf Club six
(30:28):
fifty par five. It's like, listen, I get to swing
as hard as I can out of at least I
know that I know I can at least do this,
and that's the that's the that's the good thing, Nico.
I want to go back to tour players for just
a moment, because you get a tour player that approaches
you about golf Blueprint. Then you see success with a
tour player that's using golf blueprint. What's the you don't
(30:49):
have the name names, but like, what's the biggest compliment
you've received from the highest level of player about what
you've done for their mental game or physical game, or
just the way they've gone about like off weeks or
spending time in their game.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
The biggest compliment ever was watching an interview and someone
asked a question about a really particular knee high shot
at a very famous golf club in Georgia that has
played typically in April.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Okay, never heard of it, Yeah, never heard of it.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
And the guy said, I've hit that shot before in
practice for the last two months, and I'm getting to
hear that was so freaking cool and just be able
to go wow, dude. That translated like when a pro
says I've hit that shot that's everything Like that is
so rewarding because, like Marty said, you you plan out
your weeks and we all plan like, all right, I'm
gonna hit it here, I'm gonna hit it there. Well,
(31:38):
I'm not that good at executing, and so sometimes I do,
but they often do. And so to be able to
plan and then execute on your game plan is just
so rewarding. Everyone who's played a round of golf where
you know you're looking where you're hitting it. God, what
a good feeling and how fun is the game when
when you're doing that.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
I think about this Nico that you know, I think,
day in and day out, if there wasn't that tournament
in April and augusta, you know, I think your your
average tour player could go through the rest of the
year hitting the balls straight, hitting a little cut, but
that one tournament there is you know, demands and the
tour players have you they literally have all winter to
(32:21):
think about that, you know, if that's their penultimate goal
is to win the Masters, there are specific shots you
need to pull off there, right, absolutely, So how do
you weave that in like preparing one of the best
players in the world, whether it's for that tournament, or
another one weave in where they have to practice a
(32:41):
certain shot but not overdo it, Like if I were
practicing for Augusta. It's not like I'm going to hit
draws all day long and change my whole pattern.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Raws. You just need it a couple times, right, how
do you weave that? Weave that in?
Speaker 5 (32:56):
So there's two ways to look at it. There's the
way that you can struct your practice so that let's
say three months out, two months out, a month out,
a couple of weeks out. That's a huge and easy
way to do it so that you essentially just ramp up.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
It's like Madill exactly.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Same same deal, where you're gonna say, all right, you
know we're gonna spend a little extra time on three
woods a thriver for that course would be amazing. Being
able to turn it, love, I think you sold fifty one.
I'm free to get one after this.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Come on, come on, I know it, guy. I know
a guy.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Yeah, I think I think we know a guy. So
be able to manage that and then essentially understanding like
where's that player at on tour? Are they world number one?
Who can focus on the majors? Because this is going
to be a shocker to people at home. The week
two weeks are important, but the majors matter most when
you're at that level. Now, if you're number one twenty
(33:45):
five and you need to get inside that top seventy five,
all of a sudden, the off week, you know, the
opposite field event that is your major because you need
to perform. You don't have the ability to say, you
know what, two shots inside the cut line and I'm
gonna work that draw right here. You can't do that
because you need to perform. Every day is the single
(34:06):
most important event of your life when you're playing for
your life every day. So it's understanding where that player's
at and then their own risk tolerance, right because, like
you said, they don't just hit one yard fades. I
know it's going to be shocking out there to people
at home, but they're not robots. People work the ball
both ways. And what's the individual player's risk tolerance to say,
(34:27):
you know what, I know in a couple months, I'm
gonna have to hit this one. Let's work on that now.
I've seen that shot and every round is important. But
to the best players in the world, you have a
little bit more luxury and being able to play with
a shot here, play with a shot there.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Uh Nico, I want to I want to ask about
the everyday golfer and just the plan. You know, somebody
who's listening to this podcast, they want to sign up
for Golf Blueprint. How far out are you structuring plans
for people that are the everyday golfer, not the tour
pro that want to be a part of this. Is
this like weeks in advance, months in advance, Like how
far out are your structuring their plans for their practice?
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Yeah, so when they first sign up, they're able to
just fill out a questionnaire and again kind of tell
us what they want, right, what do you want out
of this? Because at the end of the day, learner
empowered instruction is just, in my opinion, the way to go.
If I was going to go get a guitar lesson,
I want to learn how to play Metallica. I don't
want to learn how to play you know, classic rock whatever.
I want to learn Metallica. And so we always say
to people like, tell us what you want. That's huge,
(35:27):
and then give us the more information that you have.
If you have access to a launch ponditor, if you
have access to stats. If you have a handicap, tell us,
tell us what you're good at, tell us what you
struggle at, and then that first month will give them
essentially our best guess. We always like to say that
by the end of month three we're typically pretty good
and dialed in. But that's where we can really start
(35:48):
to dial that upp a more and say, okay, hey, look,
you know you want a little more short game. Fine,
we'll tweak that algorithm to give you that. But also
we have to understand that human beings are poor self assent,
and at the end of the day, our job is
to hold the reins of that and say, look, we
know you, all of a sudden you figured out your driver,
but we're not going to stop hitting drivers now and
(36:11):
just go all to work on putters, because we do
that as human beings, right, We over emphasize one area
of the game, and then all of a sudden we
forget about how to hit a seven iron and now
we need to hit a seven iron on a part three.
So it's that kind of push pull that that we
work really hard on the amateur side with to work
with them more importantly on their goals outcome and process.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Niko, if you could give advice to.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Fifteen year old golfer, you know, just maybe just giving
giving up a couple of his other sports basketball, baseball,
and wants to go all in on golf.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
What tips would you give? Would you give like a
youngster out there?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Oh that's a good question. Uh, I'm gonna take this
from a speed perspective with you guys and stacks, tons
of tour guys at Stack get fast number one, because
when we're evaluating players, basically, speed is a yes or no.
Do you have X amount of ball speed or do
you not? Now there's some dudes that play at one
(37:11):
fifty five, one sixty on tour. They are anomalies. If
you have one hundred and eighty nine hour ball speed,
life is just easier. It's just easier to play on tour. Now.
There's also a bell curve on the other end, something
we can talk about. But for that kid, I would say,
remaining athletic is so freaking important. If you could play
other sports, great. All the parents want to specialize their
(37:31):
kids at nine, ten, eleven years old. It freaks me
out personally. I think you lose a lot of athleticism
and I think you gain a lot in playing other sports. Now,
if you're going to go be world number one at seventeen,
hey man, I understand that. But if you're going to
play college golf, be clear about your own goals. Hey,
my goal is to play Division one college golf. Great,
there's also Division two, there's Division three, there's a NAIA,
(37:54):
there's JUCO. Playing Division one. Isn't the end all be off?
You don't go to the number one school in the country.
That's okay golf. You can make it in a million
different ways. To me, I would advise them to fall
in love with the game and more importantly, fall in
love with the process, because being good at sixteen is cool.
You make a lot more money at twenty six now
(38:14):
with nil. Hey man, I don't know. There's a h Yeah, listen,
there's a bunch of dieteen yearls that drive lambos. So
maybe I'm an old boomer, but my advice is, hey, listen,
you're gonna win a lot of majors at twenty six.
Try to develop and learn skills, take risks. It's okay
to hit the ball both ways. It's okay to swing
as hard as you can and miss with a driver,
(38:35):
It's okay to try that crazy flop shot when you're fifteen.
I want to see someone who can develop, because by
the time you get to me, I don't work with kids.
I work with the best players in the world. By
the time you get to me, those days are over.
Now it's your job. Now it's a grind, and you're
coming to me trying to have fun, enjoy it with
your buddies, spend the extra hour. You know, you don't
(38:55):
know any responsibilities, you know, owt any bills. Mom and
dad are paying for your entry fee. Life is pretty
good at that age.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I think your point is such a great one, Niko,
about you know, you might have goals if you don't
check that box, don't give up. Maybe now you got
to just adjust. Maybe maybe you got to adjust what
you're going to do here and there. And there are
different paths to this, right, and I think that's what
makes every sport cool. You know, when those those NFL
offenses will list off the colleges to start the game,
(39:23):
it's not all Baama, LSU in Texas, right, you got
North Dakota State. You know, you got these random colleges
that will pop in. You know, from time to time,
and it's just a reminder that you can get there
down a different road.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
You might just have to work a little bit harder
down that road.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
Totally. Yeah, there's there's a million opportunities in golf. There's
an interesting question that I've heard a really famous I've
heard Claude Harmon say to mini tour guys a lot
and he'll ask them, He'll say, why aren't you playing
on the tour And they'll give a million different reasons
and I need to do this, and he goes, no,
you're not playing on tours. You're not good enough. We
have Monday qualifiers and you can show up and play.
This isn't like the MLB or NFL draft to where
(40:00):
you have to play at a certain school, get drafted,
go to the combine. There's nothing holding you back from
going and shooting sixty one and playing in the big
leagues that week. Think about it. I can't go to
a baseball game, have a sick home run derby batting
practice and you know, back forth behind John Carlos Stanton Like,
it doesn't work that way. But in golf we still
have the most amazing democratic process of a Monday qualifier.
(40:22):
If you can afford the couple hundred bucks, which by
the way, I think is way too high. But that's
neither here nor there. And you could show up and play.
You get to play on tour. That is the most
amazing thing in the world to me, And I think
it freaks me out that kids have. If I don't
do this, then I'm done. No, man, you always have
the opportunity to play professional golf. There's nothing stopping you.
(40:44):
It's objective. If you could shoot the score, you get
to play.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I think it's the line from Tim Cupbardy. I mean,
you know, it's like like I mean, you know. I mean,
I'm gonna go out and try to get into the
US Open, right, I mean if my score is better
than you, and it it's golf can be so intimidating,
but at the end of the day, it is so
silly that it is that simple, right Marty. It's like,
if I shoot sixty seven and you shoot sixty at eight,
I beat you.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It doesn't matter who you are.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Now you're better than me, So you're gonna shoot better
than me almost every time. But I put in the
time and the work, and I find a plan, and
I find the right equipment and stuff that fits me,
and I literally invest in what I want to become.
There might be an opportunity there for me to become
that one day.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yep. I love Nico fall in love with the process. Man.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I just it reminds me of you know, Victor. You know,
is that his ups and downs and highs and lows.
But you can see how much he just loves the process,
you know, and so.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Loves the heavy metal too. Nico was saying, try to
get that hard going. I know, you gotta get this
the beats going in the headphone, dude.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
So a funny thing for me is I figured out
very quickly I actually like metals, so it had a
reverse effect. And then I started listening to jazz, which
just was the worst for me. Chams my art, right,
I get all cranky, start hitting chunk wedges and thin
in three woods. I'm a mess out there with jazz.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Everybody's calming down at jazz, and you're just like you're
at your end. You're like, I have done, Nico.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Let people know where they can check out, you know,
what you guys are doing, How they can get involved plans,
they can look at what's kind of the process for
somebody lifting into the podcast.
Speaker 5 (42:13):
So easiest way to find us is social at golf Underscore,
Underscore Blueprint. I am responding to all the messages. For
better or worse, you're gonna get me. If you send
us an email, you're gonna get the professor keV golf
blueprint dot com. And please reach out to us. I
always say to people. I live in Jupiter, I travel
a lot. If you see me on the range, come
up and talk to me, Come say hi. And if
(42:33):
you see someone who's who's better than you at the range,
they're probably stoked to talk to you as well. So
I always trying to tell that people like please reach
out to me. However, I can help you whatever whatever
we can do to to make golf more fun, because
at the end of the day, like like we talked about,
if you're having more fun, you'll practice more. If you
practice more, you're probably gonna play a little better.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I think the I think the point on asking people
questions is, you know, it's an intimidating thing even as
an adult.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
The kind of going back to the gym analogy.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
You know, you can go up to the biggest most
jack guy in the planet. If he's at the gym,
and if you're asking that guy what they're doing, I've
done it plenty of times in my life. They will
give you an honest answer. They're not gonna look at
you like you're an idiot. They're they're actually to help
you because you're interested in what they're doing, because you
obviously are seeing whatever gains they're getting out of that.
And the same thing can be said at the golf course.
(43:19):
You know, you go up to somebody that's working on
something that are hitting the ball great or you know,
is really good, like I mean, Marty. There are these
stories of VJ seeing helping out these young players that
are up and coming trying to make it on the tour,
and the stories are excellent, but it's also part of
what golf. What makes golf so great is it does
feel like people are willing to help out. I mean,
remember Steve Stricker giving tips to Tiger about the putting.
(43:39):
You think about Rory this year telling Scottie to go
to the mallet, Like even the best in the world
will help out the other best in the world. It
might don't work out great for everybody else that they
start winning everything, but it seems like people are are
open and willing to talk, so I love that Nico,
and I love what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
It's super cool.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thank you so much for your time on the POT.
I hope people check out golf. We're going to help
people get something out of this, so thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
Appreciate you guys, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
This is the Ping Driven Grounds podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
H
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