May 14, 2025 • 48 mins
Shane and Marty caught up with two-time PGA Tour winner Mackenzie Hughes earlier this year during the WM Phoenix Open in Scottsdale, Arizona. They discussed the work he’s put in to see ball speed gains, the keys to his consistent putting and how golf is weaving into his life as a dad and husband.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The guys from Ping.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters.
Speaker 3 (00:04):
I just love that I can hit any.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Shot I kind of want. We're gonna be able to
tell some fun stories about what goes on here to
help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping prooven Grounds podcast.
I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and
Marty we got one of the nice guys on tour
joining us day Atckenzie Hughes. McKenzie a lot of podcast
Have you had a lot of podcast spots in your life?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I feel like since since COVID, I feel like podcasts
have taken off, and I feel like since then, yeah,
I feel like the podcast I've been on quite a
few since then, and but like prior to that, I
don't feel like there was as many, and I feel
like now it's yeah, it's coming up more and more
requests and first time beyond a ping podcast, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Are you a podcast listener?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
If I have the right drive, I will, And if
my kids aren't in the car, which is few and
far between, usually it's the kids TV is going in
the back, so you can't quite you know, intermix the audio,
but uh, do you like a good podcast? And I
feel like it can like if you've got on the
right podcast on nice drive, that can make it make
(01:10):
it go by quick.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
What type of podcasts are you into health and fitness stuff?
You know?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I like those uh you know those self improvement ones
or motivational ones. I mean like maybe like an ed
my Leb podcast or I actually listened listened to a
podcast Jason Bateman will our Net SmartLess. Yeah, so good,
that's a good podcast. Those guys are funny. Uh So,
(01:36):
it just kind of depends on what my mood is.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You know, like a maple leaf steal. Do you do hockey?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yea sometimes you know hockey podcasts or like those guys
are great. So yeah, just whatever you've been moved for.
But there's tons of good podcasts out there now and
and tons of great content.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah. I think a lot of the ping proven Grounds
podcast listeners they're very into the kind of we talk
tech stuff, golf, product design, club fitting to our your interview,
so this is gonna be a fun one, yeah, Mac
to kind of go into some of the details your gear.
I think how you train, get ready for tournaments. Y.
I'm personally very interested in your journey going from and
(02:12):
I've talked to Mike Carro, a little bit mutual friend
of ours, your trainer there, on what you've done to
kind of boost your ball speed in what you're doing
on the fitness side over the last you know whatever
five years or so.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, Yeah, he's been great, kind of changed the way
I looked at the fitness side of things. I think
I had a pretty good handle on it, but just
a little bit different focus for what I'm doing in
the gym. And yeah, it's it's nice to see it
kind of come through on a golf course. Actually, I
was just coming off the range where I was hitting
(02:44):
some drivers and I try to do like you know,
small groups two three times a week where I'll be
hitting drivers like hard with the intent to hit them
as hard as I can, and just a way to
train that that speed. Like that speed is a skill.
It's something you need to work at and constantly do.
And I find the more I do that, if I
can make sure I'm consistent with that, I can take
(03:05):
to that I can take that to the golf course
and you know, going from a one seventy seventy one
guy to a one seventy eight guy, Like that's that's
a big difference, and you know, a huge asset around
course like this for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
When you think about like speed, because speed's become such
a big part of golf, and you think about over
the last let's call it eight years, you know, it's
really become like a main focus not just for professional golfers,
but for the every day golfer as well. When do
you feel comfortable when you pick up seven eight mile
per hour ball speed and club at speed? When do
you start to feel comfortable going out on the golf
course in a tournament and feeling like, Okay, I can
(03:38):
unleash this one. Maybe you're playing you know, you're playing
Phoenix and you're on three, You're like, I'm gonna send one,
you know, right of that bunker. Yeah. Does it take
a level of commitment, you know, in terms of practice
to feel that comfortable doing it in a tournament?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah? I mean, I think the good thing about as
you're making speed games, you know, it's not as if
you overnight go from seventy two to seventy nine, so
that that gradual will step up where you know, one
week I go, you know, averaging seventy five that week,
and then the next week I'm averaging, you know, just
over seventy five, and then in three months I'm averaging
seventy seven point five or you know, and you just
(04:12):
it's slowly creeping up. But like the idea with when
I I'm doing it on the range, I like to
swing the way I'll do on the course. So it's
just I'm simply adding like a little bit of intent
to hit it harder, but typically swing within the same
framework of my swing. I'm not lifting up my left
heel or trying to jump off the ground. I'm not
(04:33):
doing anything like that. So I try to make it
as similar as possible to I'm gonna do on the course,
so I can at least bring that swing to the course.
Now there is an element of trust too, because if
you stand on a tee on let's say fifteen to
part five, you know, and you're gonna get your back
and one a little harder. Well, you can't miss it
really anywhere, right, you know, like you need to right yeah, yeah,
(04:56):
So you need to hit it a really straight drive there,
And honestly, distance isn't a huge priority there because you
hit a three thirty down there, it gets pretty narrow
and necky. So you hit a three tons off the tee,
which is not too difficult to do here in Phoenix.
You know you're in a nice spot hitting a foreign
in there. So you kind of pick your spots right,
Like you know, eleven T is a little squeeze cut
(05:18):
for me, preferably a little bit off the heel, a little.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Spinny, just get it in play, get in.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Place, you know, I want that ball spinning left right.
So there's there's your moments. You got to pick your
moments where hey, this is a this is a full center.
This is like a little you know, feeler. But I
think you look at the list of winners here, uh
you know, typically you know, length is a big advantage
to have. I mean there's some bunkers that you know,
like on eight. You know when Rory plays here, those
(05:47):
bunkers aren't in play. You know, that's a huge advantage
for that whole I mean, that whole right of the
bunkers is tight. Over those bunkers, you got the world.
So I think it's just something that's it's kind of
opened my eyes to know how important it is. And
look I know what's coming behind me, and it's it's fast.
So I'm just trying to just trying to just trying
(06:07):
to keep up. I just played a practice round with
the two hoy Guards brothers and yes, PRIs Benson and
I mean they had their quads out there all day,
you know, eighty two at eighty five, all all morning,
I mean it and it wasn't I mean it was morning.
So I'm like, I was like, I'm not moving as good,
and you know, I'm probably in the you know load
(06:29):
of mid one seventies and they're already cruising in the
you know, mid to lower one eighties, and I'm like,
that's uh, that's different. So I know, you know, that's
kind of the way that the game is going now,
and it doesn't matter what they do to equipment, what
they do to the ball, the golfer and the athlete
will just get faster.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean you're seeing it. You're seeing it throughout
every sport. I mean, think about how quick an athletic
defensive linemen are right now. I mean it's so incredib
They're running four threes, four fours, Marty. I wanted to
ask you, I mean, obviously with stack and everything like that.
I thought McKenzie said something very interesting about like not overswinging,
just overswing like trying to kind of make a swing
in practice that would be a swing on the golf course.
How do you talk to people that are using stack
(07:08):
in terms of that mentality where it's not just I'm
swinging as hard as I can as I'm practicing, and
then I got to go take that out on the
golf course.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, that's where we have when in our training, we
have different intents and Mac talked about that exactly. Is
just is just there's a certain intent you need to
take and if you can do it on the range, right.
And then one big thing we like to do, which
is the guys are doing in your practice around this morning,
is measure your ball speed on the course. So whether
it's you know, a little radar you take out there,
I mean, I think a lot of the guys using
(07:35):
quad are probably just looking at ball speed. Yeah, so
it's like taking that ball.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Speed to the court carry number, but really just a
couple of numbers because they're not lying it up for
runny club dat out there. Yeah, you know, they're just
looking to carry speed. You know, stuff like that Actually
the prg R that comes with stack it's actually really good.
I'm not I'm not sure if you use it all,
but like next to my track man the ball speed
numbers are like they never miss.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah I don't.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I don't look at club speed, but ball speed, which
is really what I'm after. It's money. Yeah, I mean
you just slid that thing in your bag pulled out.
I mean I kind of get some looks sometimes we're like, oh,
look at that little thing, like you know exactly I
cut my quad out here, like I cut my little
pr g R. But I've been a track man guy,
so like that's not really you can't bring on the course.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Pr GR Like just to get a few practice round
numbers is just great.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, no, it's sweet. That's what I like to do, Shane,
is just if I'm playing nine holes in the cart
late late in the evening, put our stack radar. It's
like the pr GR really good for ball speed. Just
put in your cup holder. You can put it down
in every single t box because ultimately you want to
you want to bring that speed to the golf course.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, and I think the idea is that you you know,
you get more comfortable doing it the more often you
do it. So if you're doing it in practice and
you're doing it when you play a match with your buddies,
and then you go do it when you play a
tour event, like it just it just gives you a
confensate this is okay, Yeah, I can actually go this
fast and it's still I actually like to use the
mentality sometimes of like people say, like and then the
(09:00):
old way of teaching was like slow and smooth, right,
like we just want to hit a straight straight, But
like if I asked a baseball player to throw a strike,
he wouldn't throw it softer to make sure you threw
a strike. You to throw a fastball, right, he's gonna
throw it fast to throw it straight, you know. And
I just think that sometimes, like we think that if
you're gonna go faster, we're gonna be more crooked. But
I've actually found that, like when I swing it hard,
(09:22):
my dispersion is as good, if not better. So, but
there's also whether there's a trust element to that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
How About from a shot shaving standpoint, you mentioned, you know,
hit a little control cuts out there when you're trying
to hit a far when are you trying to hit
it straight.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, when I when I'm hitting it further, I'm teeing
it a little bit higher and drawing away the balls
flying straight to maybe even fall on left. Okay, just
kind of what happens when I swing it harder. Yea,
I tend to get a little bit more up on
it and a little bit more right. But I know
that I know that. Well, that's that's kind of what happens.
(09:54):
And then you know, my my stock or more you know,
teed down swing is a little more on top of it,
a little more cut biased. So but again it's nice
just you guys gotta know you got no your tennessees
know what happens as you're gonna hit it harder. But yeah,
I think there's a st a little time and a place.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
There's like you got on certain holes out here and
you know, being three hundred of mill of fairways just fine,
you know, so just getting all and play find a
way to get get out there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So how crazy was it last year having three players
from Kent State on that President's Cup team? Like I
was going through some of the teams this morning, it's like,
you know, you get Bama and you get Texas and
you get these teams you expected to see and then
Kent State you got three players represented. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, I think, you know, that was a huge point
of pride for our school. My golf coach, her page
like that. That's just doesn't happen very often or ever really,
And you know, I'm in American school, uh, and we're yeah,
we're not. We're not in Texas, We're not on Alabama.
But you know, we've we've held our own over the years,
(10:58):
and I think, you know, we we're proud of that.
We're proud of, you know, the talent that's gone through
there and obviously a lot of Canadians going through that
that pipeline. But yeah, it was such a thrill not
only to be on that team, but to share it
with you know, two really good friends of mine, Corey
and Taylor, And yeah, I was that was a dream week.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You guys. I noticed you also traveled to South Africa
last fall to play that event. How'd that come to be?
Why did you? Why'd you go down there? I saw
you you had a great finish and Corey did as well.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, you know, I think as I you know, I'm
in year nine now, and I think it's cool to
get those opportunities and to see other parts of the world.
And you know, I've played on tour now for a
while and I've seen lots of great places, but you know,
I hadn't been down there, and I just had the
opportunity to go. They have those spots available to the
(11:52):
ten ten PG tour spots down there, and they got
an invite to go down and it was kind of
a no brainer. I just thought there would be a
cool experience. I had heard nothing but great things. Uh,
And we got treated awesome down there, Corey and our
caddies and a couple others of the Safari, which was
a really cool experience, and just everything about it was
(12:14):
really fun. Uh. Animals all over the golf course. We
were playing the one day and we're up on this
par three l a t and this like herd, I
don't even be called a herd or a pack of
chimpanzees just started like coming across the hole.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Are you like uncomfortable?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And well they they I was like, I didn't think
any of it, but they're like all those are those
areas are vicious, Like you got to stay away from
those guys because they're they're mean, and I mean, I
had no idea, but like it looked it looked like
they could be pretty aggressive. And then I was over
a putt like ten minutes later on that same hole
and I'm just about to hit my putt and I
hear this like growling and screaming, and I'm like, what
is that? And it was two chimpanzees like just like
(12:52):
one hundred yards away, just scrapping, like just having a
fight over something. And uh, I mean, that was probably
the first time in my career I backed off for
chimpanzee fight, so hopefully hopefully last. But it was really cool.
I loved it down there. Gary Player was the host,
got to meet him, and yeah, just a really fun week.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It feels like there's a push right now from pros.
I don't know who kind of started this, but there
seems to be and you said it, you know, you've
been doing this for a long time. There seems to
be an appreciation or at least an interest in a
little bit more global golf. You know, there's there's players
that are more insted in going and play in Australia,
around Australian Open and things like that go to Africa
and play do you feel that amongst your peers that
(13:33):
it's not just the localized tournaments that you play each
and every year, but to try to expand the horizons
a bit and play elsewhere that you haven't been before.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, And I think, you know, in this career, you
don't really know how long it will ever last, right,
You can get hurt and that and things can end abruptly.
You know, you hope that ever happens. But when you
have the opportunities and you get to a point like
I am in my career, I just think that you
take those chances, get the opportunities, and you don't you
just don't look back. Like my next one I would
(14:02):
love to do is Australia, Like you said, go do
those two back to back. You know, I'd love them
to be on like you know, like Royal.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Melbourne and like you know, like the Big Boys.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah. Yeah, so maybe I'll try and line up with
one of those, you know, those venues. But yeah, I
think just just it's just cool to go see those places, school,
to travel the world, to do what we do, because
like you said, you can kind of get very comfortable
in the bubble of the PGA Tour where I mean
we travel a little bit, but it we're very much
within the US and it's cool to kind of expand
(14:36):
your your experiences and you're in your horizons a little bit,
and uh, we're so fortunate to do what we do,
and now to have the lines with the DP World Tour,
some of those opportunities open up a little bit easier,
Like go play Wentworth next year. That would be something
I'd love to do. I've heard nothing but amazing things
about that. It's like the basically the players of the
(14:56):
of the of the DP World Tours. So yeah, just
it's fun to have those those opportunities, and I think,
you know, getting to my stage of my career, I'm like, oh,
I want to go do it now while I have
the chance and they still want me down there.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah. I mean like Rory, you know this winter, Rory,
it's December and he goes on a golf trip, you know,
to New Zealand because he's always wanted to do that.
When's the last kind of casual golf trip you've been on.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
It's it's been it's been a minute.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Do you have any interest in doing something or a
place you haven't played that you've always wanted to play.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I would like to do like abandon trip maybe one day.
I've never done that. People ask me that though, It's like,
I mean, you have kids. Yeah, I've got three kids.
So I get to go home on your vacation's kind
of going home. Yeah, Like I want to go home
and be home.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And then you get five weeks off in the off season.
You want to be home and uh, you know, and
I want to be also with my kids, but who
aren't traveling with me right now. So like it's tough
to just go home and then pick up and say, hey,
I'm going to go play.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
They're not gonna pay me for this.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
For it, it's a really tough sell to my wife.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And Charlotte's Ban is not a quick trip.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah. And also just like for me, you know, it's
not the right time. But at some point that will
there will be a time for that. You know, my
kids will be in high school and they'll have their
own activities and you know, maybe I'll be home a
bit more and that opportunity opens up. One week, you know,
I go for five days, six days, and but it's
it's phase two. I think you know, right now we're
(16:28):
so busy week to week, so many tournaments every year,
but that will slow down and then they'll open up
a time to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Marty. Do you have a place you haven't played that
you want to play a golf course?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I think Australia. I haven't been down to Australia. Australia
sounds amazing a bit.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
That's a big golf trip.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, it's a big it's a big golf trip.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
But I mean it's now you're talking ten, twelve, fourteen days, right, Yeah,
you're spending time. I mean the obviously the Melbourne golf
is so good.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, if you're gonna fly that far, you're gonna be
there for yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Speaking of kids, Mac, I heard your seven year old
just got out of prodigies? Is that right? And how's
this fitting? How's his bag? How's his game?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So he's he's seven years old. The driver we actually
had it was funny. Uh, he was in twenty three.
He had his driver cut down at the Masters, so
we brought it to the Masters. He had it worked
on at Augusta.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
So he had his clubs worked on at Augusta and
I did not. I had no clubs worked on that week.
My son had his driver dialed in. So he loves it.
He loves his driver. His irons, I feel like they're
a little bit big for him at his age. So
he's got a couple like shorter ones that are non
non ping, but they're just like a little bit better
sizing for him. He'll grow into the Brady ones. But
(17:45):
the driver's awesome, The potter's great. He and he loves
it like he loves playing now. And he's been to
some pretty cool tournaments. He went to the President's Cup, walked,
and he's actually walked some rounds now.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So he's walked.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
He walked four full rounds last year in twenty for
so that's pretty big at seven years old. Like you know,
it's a big commitment to walker full round of golf.
You know, include some treats. You know, you go, you
have some treats along the way. Always got to keep
the interest as you go along. But he's actually into
it now. He does He does it twice a week
in like a group setting, which I think is great
because you you have fun doing it. It's not so structured,
(18:20):
but there's you know, there's information, there's lessons learned, and
then there's that element of I'm running around my buddies too,
you know, and the winning team gets a little treat
and uh so that's been a great, great thing for him.
And you know, when I asked him, like, golf is
number one. He's playing flag football, basketball, he's playing, uh baseball,
(18:42):
but golf's number one. So that's that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
The balance too, I mean, Marty, I'm sure you went
through this as well, but the balance of like being
a golf or being in golf, not wanting to feel
like you're pushing golf down their throat at the same
time kind of wanting you know, like I'm dealing this
with my son right now, it's like wanting them to
play golf with you.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So the balance is always kind of tough to to
really refine. But it's cool that you're at a place
now where it seems like there's a yeah, there's kind
of good synergy there.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah for sure. I mean, like I have no I don't,
I don't care one way or the other. You know,
like I just wanted to him to experience all those things,
experience all those sports and then just let him decide
he might not like golf, but he might love it,
and if he does, that'd be a huge bonus, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Now the bandon trip's an easier sell to exact.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, that's where my head, that's where this whole question started.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, let me get to sixteen. Then we're gonna go
on a family trip Tobandon.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And then you know, my wife she's got a set
up things as well, so you know she's wanting to
get into it as well. But at the same time,
she has the three small kids right, you know, at
home all the time, so like even that, it's like,
when's the time for her to go? You know, But
there will be a time and she will get into
it at some point, and it'll be fun if we
(19:54):
can do that in the family setting and just go
to quail, play nine holes, have dinner, and even if
it's just play three hold four holes, but just to
do it together and make it a you know, a
group effort and where were all together, that'd be that'd
be cool.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
One day, super fun. Speak of sports, what were your sports?
What what was your sports? And when'd you kind of
go in on all in on golf growing up?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So I think you know, I was kind of like
my song where like, growing up, I played a little
bit of baseball early, probably only like you know, let's
say a three or four year window where I played baseball,
played hockey growing up until I was like fourteen years old,
which is kind of a right, a passage in Canada. Yeah,
(20:38):
let's see, I played I played a little bit of
volleyball in high school, you know, in the winter months,
and so I I really kind of I did soccer
as well, but I was kind of doing a little
bit of everything, tasted a little bit of everything. But
I kind of found out, like around like the twelve
thirteen year mark, that I didn't love team sports quite
(21:01):
as much. And I was playing golf at that time.
I loved what golf asked of you because I felt like,
you know, I'd go to the course and I could
spend five six hours by myself practicing and playing, and like,
I like, I found enjoyment in that. I found like
that the solitude was nice, and like I'm a social
(21:24):
person with also you know a little bit of that
intrinsic uh, you know, personality as well, where I can
actually do quite well, like on my on my own
for quite quite a while, and I found like golf
just like you know, it was so peaceful, and I
loved that golf was like just on you, you know,
like you go, put the time in, you go, you
(21:46):
go do some work, like but you know whether it's
going great or going poorly, like it was on your shoulders.
And like I felt like with team sports sometimes you
get stuck with like teammates who didn't like or you know,
these guys are putting in tons of affork these guys aren't.
So I just I don't know that that was a
big part about drew me to golf too. And but
I did try quite a few sports growing up. When
(22:07):
I was playing hockey at thirteen fourteen, I hadn't really
hit a gross spurt yet and like, youth sports can
be kind of tough. Like I'm trying to picture like
well with comparison and be like football in the States,
maybe yeah, but like you're eleven, twelve years old and
you're playing football, Well, there's like twelve year olds that
are six feet tall and one hundred and sixty five
hundred and seventy pounds, and then there's twelve year olds
(22:28):
that are five foot two and one hundred and twenty pounds,
and I was that that kid, you know, I was
the small, you know, twelve year old, thirteen year old
and I found like I'm playing hockey and I'm just
I'm getting pushed around here, and I'm like, eah, golf
might be for me. Yeah, golf. Golf sounds a little better.
And when I was like fourteen, I hit a big
gross spurt and I was like, I basically grew like
(22:48):
eight inches in a year. I went from like being
five foot three to almost six feet tall in a year.
And then playing golf, I was like, oh, this is great,
Like I'm hit the ball way further, and I went,
you know, from kind of poking it out there to
hit in some pretty big drives at fifteen years old.
And but I think it's like when I talk to
people now, like I feel like I get that question
(23:10):
a lot. Hey McKenzie, my youngest son's playing golf. He's
eight or nine, Like, what do you what do you
recommend for him? I'm like, don't don't specialize in golf now,
don't don't limit him to just golf at eight or
nine years old. Play let him play sports, let them
let him be a kid, because you don't need to
do golf twenty four to seven to be really good
(23:30):
at golf at that age, and they're gonna become sick
of it. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna grow out
of the sport.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I feel like if you're pushed into it or you're
forced to basically only do golf at that age. And
uh So I tell people all the time and tell parents, like,
keep your kids in a lot of sports, like let
them have the balance and let them decide a little
later on, like what it is they want to do,
because they might not want to do golf. But if
you push them into golf, I don't think that's how
(23:57):
you have success. Like if you don't want to play
golf and your kid doesn't want anything, like they're not
gonna like you have to want They have to want it.
And I always wanted when I was a kid, my
parents weren't taking me the course. I was like, hey, mom,
like take me take me the course. I want to go, Yeah,
pick me up a dark you know. But if your
kids aren't telling you that, there's probably you know, there's
probably a reason why. And so I encourage parents all
(24:20):
the time, like, hey, let's let's let a lot your
kids play sports. Let them play what they want to play,
and at maybe thirteen fourteen years old, they go, hey,
they'll fit that I really like golf, and maybe I
want to play a little baseball or I want to
play a little basketball. I'm going to like narrow it down.
But they will tell you, you know, they're smart.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Versus them being pushed in the corner. By the way,
you mentioned football being like the hockey version, I was
the same way. I was really small until like ninth
grade and I grew, yeah, eighth grade, about five foot tall.
And I went around the corner catching a pass and
this guy that played safety at Baylor hit me helmet
off fumble. That was the end of my football.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I was like, this is I'm not doing this anymore.
This is I you realize quickly, maybe golf is going
to be my sport, or maybe ten it's going to
be sport, but I'm sure not going to be this
sport because it's not for me. Yeah it's a yeah,
I mean it's it's I think that's a good message
out there because I think we live in a society
now where I want my kid to be this. They
need to do this all the time. It's not really
(25:19):
how we work. I mean, we change interests and you
know as adults, right yea.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
And I feel like the the culture around sports is
definitely different in the United States. I mean there's there's
definite I definitely notice that coming from Canada, that the
intensity and the focus around sports, especially at a young age,
like it's ramped up quickly. Like my son was playing
baseball this past fall, was barely seven years old, and
(25:48):
the coaches out there arguing calls in the mound with
the other and I'm like, I'm like, I can assure you,
these kids don't care that much. Let's let's let it.
Let's let it go right, right, and the parents, you
care more than they care. The parents really don't care,
so like let's let's move on. But yeah, I just
think that that can kind of like take away from
they can take a take away from the kids enjoyment
(26:08):
of it if it becomes too serious too early. And uh,
look at seven, eight, nine years old. Yeah, I mean
we're not moving mountains like. These kids are just there
to have fun, learn the game, you know, And god,
I just think it gets it gets too serious. Too
quickly in my opinion, looking at it from the outside,
like I see parents, you know, working with their kids
(26:30):
of the course and doing certain things, and I'm like,
and I don't. I don't step in. It's not my place.
But you know, I see it. I can see it
from the outside a lot. And you know, I just
think if if it was me giving advice, I'd say, hey,
you know, I think less is more at that age.
Let them have fun, lumby kids and then they figured out.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Mackenzie, I wanna we talked a little bit about your
distance gains and how important that's been to you. I
think it's been incredible. Looking at your short game stats
over your entire career stroke uh strokes gained around the
green strokes game putting, your stats have been incredible. What
do you do to kind of maintain? Have you always
been a good putter, even before you got on tour?
And then what do you do to kind of maintain
(27:14):
What do you think your strengths are from a putting standpoint.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
So I'd say, like, before I got on tour, I
felt I was a good putter, but I would have
been classified as a streaky putter, I think, but I
got got hot at times, but you know, week to
week it wasn't where I wanted to be playing corn
Fery Tour. And then I felt like my rookie year
on tour, I found I found something, And from that
(27:43):
point on, I'd say, I've been, you know, one of
the better partters out here for the last you know,
six seven, eight years.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
You would you find.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
You know, I can't really pinpoint, to be honest, what
I found uh that particular year, but I found a
feeling my stroke, and I to be honest, I put
differently now, but I found a feeling my stroke, and
for whatever reason that it just felt really good. I
(28:14):
was able to kind of ride that out for a
long time. But I made a ton of putts and
the hole started to look big to me.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It started it wasn't a grip change or a stroke
change anything necessarily.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Just something click, a little feel, and then I started
to like roll a few like weeks together where I
was like, man, I'm making a lot of nice putts,
a lot of mid range putts, and then it just
kind of felt like that became a little more normal.
It just felt like making putts was like a normal
thing for me. And then I just kind of stumbled
that confidence. And like, to be honest, when I look
(28:47):
back at my stroke from my rookie year, I don't
like it. But I was the eighth ranked plot around
tour that year. I just I was aiming left when
I was pushing it online, but I did every single time.
And uh, I've kind of you know, straightened out since then.
But like the confidence I built for my year like that,
it's like still carried with me. Like I saw the
blogging a whole lot, and i'd I'd have weeks where I,
(29:09):
you know, gained three, four or five strokes putting and
that was like a big jump up for me that
that rookie year. And yeah, like I say, like now
to like maintain where I'm at with my putting, I
really feel like it's I do the same thing almost
every single day, so and I don't do anything really fancy,
(29:31):
but like I just I start my day with, you know,
start line straight left to right, right to left. I'll
do that for fifteen minutes. And I do the same
like three or four drills every day, uh speed short
putt drills. But I don't I don't really vary my
routine hardly at all. And then as far as like
what I focus on when I'm on the course, my like,
(29:52):
my focus is really down to like what I can
control in my box, So I call it like my
my I'm in my playbox right over the ball, and
like I'm really someone that's very process oriented with like, hey,
if I like check those boxes off, I can accept
the outcome over here. So I'm not like a guy
that says, hey, like miss make good, put bad putt.
(30:15):
I'm like, oh, I missed this butt from eight feet.
I had a great putt. I did what I was
trying to do, great putt, you know. And I feel
like that actually helps from a confidence standpoint, because if
I was just based on my confidence on miss make well,
I wouldn't be very confident because you miss a lot
more puts than you make. So I feel like you
can gain confidence hitting a putt from ten feet that
you feel like you rolled it well, did what you're
(30:36):
trying to do. I miss, but I did what I
was trying to do. So I think that's something that's
helped me. And something I kind of try to tell
amateurs sometimes is like, hey, you know, you missed that
twelve foot putt, But like the odds are you were
going to miss that putt? So like, I don't know
why you're mad, Like you hit a good butt over
the over the right edge, Like, oh I should have
made that putt. No, you shouldn't have. You you're a
(30:59):
twelve handicap. You know, it's the twelve foot put My
odds are probably thirty percent or forty percent to make
that putt. Your odds are fifteen percent.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Maybe, Yeah, So I was gonna say. I mean that,
like to your point, it feels like amateurs struggle with
accepting like the percentages.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Yeah, I think that's a big thing. Like if you
could lay out ahead of time, Hey, before you hit
this butt this fifteen foot, realize you are a one
and twenty chance of making this putt for like a
twelve handicap, right, Like if I lay that out to
you right now, Like, that's gonna change the way you
approach that butt.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Probably, yeah, just trying to hit itid maybe it goes in.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Yeah, it's all with good speed, right, get on a
reasonable line and you two butt. You've probably like exceeded
the expectations, you know. But I think the mentality is,
like I watch on TV, it's got they make them
all the time. You know, all leaders make these puts
all the time. But like again, you show the guys
playing the best every week, and when you guys flipped
it to a shot, you typically aren't going to like
(31:59):
many misses.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Right, you know, like you guys Saturday, you're not going
to show an eight foot or miss.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So we watched guys making putts all the time, and
I think people are programmed to think, oh, ten foot putt.
You just you make these like they're like free throws, right,
they're not.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And the greens were smoother on tour.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, we put on better, We put it very good.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, that's that's that's actually a sneaky good point too.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
It was like when their cars down, for sure going
to go, but golf course go down.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I want to hear the father in law cell phone
bill story. Can you tell that for us if you
don't mind.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, So I was playing at corn Fair events in
New York.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It was at this this what years is like twenty.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Sixteen, uh peak and peak and uh this actually the
year I got my tour card. And this is actually
a great story because so I'm like three or four out,
I do the Monday qualifier, and I started the year
with a full card, had the first eight eight starts
(33:01):
or so, hadn't played great in the first like third
of the year, was on the outside looking in. Monday
qualified but missed. I got into my number.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
The next day.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
So Tuesday, I get in the tournament, don't have a
cally lined up. My buddy Keith from Canada comes up,
calls for me, and first day, just to kind of
a prelude to the story, he puts his running shoes
on top of the car, the car next to us,
and we pulled out of our house that week, we're
(33:33):
staying at my in laws and we pull out of
the driveway and he's wearing his broking Stock sandals, but
he leaves his shoes on the other car. So we
get to the course morning tea time Thursday, and he's
squeaking down the first hole is with his sandals on,
barefoot and the sandals just adding for me run kind
(33:54):
of walking through the rough feet are soaked. I'm like, sweet,
nice job, dude, you had one in your shoes. Next time,
So Friday, so I shoot even part of the first
day and the cut is going to be low. It's
probably going to be you know, five or six under.
So I needed to go out there and shoot you know,
a really low round on on Friday. And my father
(34:14):
in law we're sitting there at the house on Thursday night,
and at this point, my wife and I are still
on the family Plan. So I'm I think I'm twenty
five years old and I somehow manage to get my
way onto the family plan. And so my father in
law's playing paying the phone bill and he goes, all right,
I'll make you a deal. You can stay on the
stay on the on the family plan for another year
(34:37):
if you shoot six hundred tomorrow. So I'm like, all right,
that's a that's a fair deal. And we're going down
the last hole. I finished on number nine. I hit
the shot in there to like eight feet and at
this point, I'm now I'm thinking about it, like I've
now I'm like, oh, you thought up a frid with
that bet. So yeah, now I've made I've made the cut.
(34:59):
I've we got like I think a shot to spare
got Birdie putt in the last hole and I just
sent or cut it and I look over there, like
one hundred yards down the fairway, and I was like
doing one of these and uh, you know my wife's
obviously each year and and uh it was it was
super funny. But yeah, that's a that's a cool story.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
How how long did you get the bill? Paid for
it for another year?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Another year? Plan?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
So they kick you off? What what what happened to
get you kicked off the bill?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I think later that year got my tour card and
I was like, you're like, yeah, you're good now, you know,
you guys are fine. So but it was that's a
cool story, that's.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's that's great, And you played well the rest of
the week.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I actually finished fifth that week, which
like it was a big week for me, got me
like in the next kind of wave of tournaments. And
then a month and a half later I won and
then got my tour card. So it was it's crazy
how like you're on the outside looking in. Yeah, you're
not sure if you're gonna get played that week, you
(35:54):
play well, a month later, you win and you're on
the tour and it's like it just like boom, it happens.
And you feel like, you know, a month prior to that,
like you kind of feel like you're in the woods
and all of.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
A sudden, you're almost questioning, like what should I be doing?
All of a sudden? Can I do this?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Am I?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Am I at this level? Can I have that breakthrough?
And then a month later I win, And then two
months later I went on tour and you're just like, wait,
I wasn't sure I was good enough.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
That little world.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, so I don't have to work about eighteen and
TV anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's crazy what that little bit of belief and self
confidence does like. But from actually doing it, it's one
thing like to say, hey, I'm I am good enough,
but like once you see it and it like you
have that like that that peak and peak was the
kind of a bit of a breakthrough performance for me
where I'm like, hey, I was like on the outskirts
of contention here and had a chance to somewhat win there,
(36:46):
And that was like a big one for me where
I'm like, I can't do this. And then I went
on the corn Ferry and then when I was on
the I had the lead at the RSM that year
and I'm like, I just won two months ago. I
mean I can do this, but like the guys say
month ago, like you know it wasn't sure right right,
So it's just it's crazy how it just like it
clicks and it's like okay, I can't do this, and yeah,
(37:08):
hello world, right.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And you wanted a big playoff?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
It was that five five man playoff and it went
in went to Monday morning.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Do you guys play all five or did you split up?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So we played all five awesome, played two holes on
Sunday night, and then ran out of light. Had to
come back Monday morning, but we lost one on the
first playoff hole I think, and then came back the
next morning to play one more hole. So but even that,
like you know, I look back and I you know,
the fact that I won that playoff, you know, the
(37:39):
way it played out like was just it was just
so like the stats would just be like there's no chance,
like it just so I like, I hit it long
left and I pitched up and I almost see the
great shot. I left it just shore of the green
and I had like a sixteen foot plot from the
fringe and everyone I had missed the green. I mean,
this is like one hundred and ninety five yards forty
two degrees wins off the right, Like this is the
(38:01):
first swing of the day and everyone misses the green
and everyone gets inside me, so everyone's got a putt
from inside me. I'm the first first to go, and
I'm thinking to myself, well, like, you know, if I
can make this, like I can put the heat on,
and sure enough I make it. And I watched the
three guys miss and but like, but at no point
(38:22):
when I made the putt was I like I just won.
I was like, maggot, I get to play one more, right, yeah,
And I'm like, is it gonna be two guys one?
But like one of these guys is gonna make it?
And you know once once, like the first guy missed,
but I'm like, Kayler's so two. And then it didn't
hit me till the second guy missed. I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Shit, Like you know who the last guy was to putt?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Camillo? Okay, so Camilla had like a six foot putt
and he's above the whole kind of a little bit
of like a soft left to righter and uh, that
was the first moment I allowed myself to think, oh,
if this ball doesn't go and I win, and I'm
like no, no, no, he's gonna make it. We're gonna
go at eighteen and then blinks and he misses it,
and I'm like, wow, I was just like what just happened? Yeah,
(39:05):
you know, so crazy crazy stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Well, you're probably we talked about your putting, how good
that's been, and uh, what about your wedge setup? I
find it's very unique. You're you play your law budge
at sixty three degrees? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
So how long have you been doing that? And I'm
always curious because I've hit a sixty four sixty three occasionally,
like how far can you max that out if you
hit it full? And do you hit it full shots
with him much?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
I actually do, because I find that there's just there
is a time when you want to hit something that's
like ninety ninety five yards or even one hundred yards
that like has a lot of spin on front pin
with you know, a firm green Yeah, so I can
max that out at about one hundred yards.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, sixty three degree?
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, geez, I'd be like eighty maybe.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I'm.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
You know, and obviously, like you know, you're putting it
back in your stance, it's a bit's a bit more backfooted. Yeah,
that ball cannot be foard of your stance at all,
where it's it's going like this, so and I don't
do it a ton, you know, where I'm ever like
maxing that club up. But like again, like there will
be a time this week where I will max that
club out because it will get firm by the weekend
(40:15):
all of a shot from one hundred yards the will
maybe a little bit of helping win. And I'll want
that ball to have as much spin as if it
could possibly have it. Whereas if I hit that fifty
six and I'm taking fifteen yards off it and trying
to control a hit a three quarter shot, that ball
could bounce, bounce, bounce to check and be thirty feet
past the hole quickly. So you know, I think it's
important to have that ability to stop it quick at times.
(40:39):
And I always felt like around the greens, I wanted
to have as much loft as possible with a particular
club because I always know I can go down and
loft if I need to hit a low a low shot,
you know, I can go to fifty six, I can
go to gap, or I can put the low wedge
back in my stants. I can always decrease that loft.
But like adding and creating excess loft. On tour, I
(41:02):
feel like around the greens is a big advantage because
we play a lot of four pinch, you know, four
steps from the right, three from the right firm short
sighted a lot. Like to me on tour, it became
a huge advantage to have all that height, all that
speed and spin because like you know, at sixty or
fifty eight degrees, yeah, it's great, but like at sixty three.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
You look at that club and you go, hoole.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Man, I can get basically any pin around these greens.
And so I felt like I was playing with sixty
two and I ended up adding a degree of loft.
And I've never really regretted it, and I've just kind
of gone with it. And like I said, you, when
I'm pitching with that club, you wouldn't know it's sixty three,
like you'd watching around the greens. Ah, you're just kind
of pitching with it like a sixty or fifty eight.
Put it back of my stance. I drive them. But
(41:47):
then when I need to, you know, I can get
that ball up in the air quick.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
When did when did the when did you go from
did you grow up using a sixty? Like when did
you go to.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I was always like a pitching wedge. Fifty two, fifty six,
sixty guys, sixty yeah, nice and clean, and then I just,
you know, I was kind of messing around one time
and I just feel like, I think it was my
last Caddie was just like, hey, why don't you just
like add them off to that long We're just like,
we can always like take it down, but let's just
see if we like it a little more. I think
(42:16):
I started at sixty two and I was like, Hey,
how far can we go with this? I'm like, yeah,
sixty three, Like that's probably both as much as you
want to go.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
And so it's gonna if you thought sixty four, sixty five?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yeah, is there? What's the legal limit? What's the legal
is there?
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Oh? No, you can go to anything? Yeah right yeah,
really ball just slip right up the face, but you
can do it.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
What are you the most loft? But you could play
with and like, actually, what would be reasonable? I think
you had sixty eighth reason loft?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Like, well, that's why I'm very curious of it, because
it's rare to play. I've wanted sixty three. There's not
a lot of guys out there doing it because the
ball starts to like you get into the friction between
the ball and the face, and the ball starts to
just slip more than grip. Yeah, And in order to
get spin, you need the ball to kind of stick
on the face. That's the grip force. Yeah, but you
(43:06):
have to have a lot of speed to do it
to get it to grip. This is why you see
Phil and Bubba. Now you the high speed players of
the world. You know, using the high lofted wedge, you
get a little more spin around the greens. But I
think you could you you know, I don't know. You
hit a flop shot, you've got the face open to
like eighty eighty five degrees, probably right, if you're really
sending one up there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
How many guys do you think on tour have more
than sixty?
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I think it's probably under ten percent, under ten percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I wonder if it's going to go that way, just
as as we get longer and longer and longer, I
wonder if guys are going to creep into the sixty
three sixty four to sixty five degree world.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Well, and I think too, I mean, if I'm if
you're if you're a guy that cruises at one eighty
five ball speed. I would want to have an extra wedge. Yeah,
not a not a not a three shirt, you know
what I mean? Ye Like, for a guy like that,
it's more valuable to have tighter gaps at those wedges
and all to a wedge that you could hit from
one hundred and five yards or one hundred and ten
yards but hit a full right and create tons of spin.
(44:07):
I think that's probably the way it would It would
creep because guys now just have so much speed and
those opportunities to hit those wedges become more prevalent.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Could be laying out a new trend. This could be
the next trend of the professional golf problem. As we
wind out, I wanted to ask how pumped you to
have a major at home this year?
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Really pumps? That's uh. We talked about that being very
unique just to have.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I mean your home tournament.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Well, yeah, a tournament in your own backyard is one thing.
A major at your home course that's a that's a
weird one, but be super fun. Just to have the
clumb club support, to be in your own bed, Yeah,
that's going to be really cool.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Pressure Like, do you do you feel added amount of
like I've got to play well, I've got to make
the cut, like I've got to do those things.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
You definitely feel those things. But I think that's normal,
and I think that as as that we comes closer,
I'll you know, I'll talk to my guy and my
team and and you know, and we'll we'll basically, you know,
come to grips with like hey, yeah, you're gonna want
to do well because it's your home course and everything
like that, but like this is no different than the
(45:14):
other week, and you you have to have the mentality
I think of like embracing that, like, hey, I'm going
to see a bunch of people that know me and
everyone's gonna want me to do well. That's fun, you know,
like look at it. Look at it like a positive Yeah,
hey I'm not actually extra support and whether I play
great or don't, like they're behind me, rather than viewing
it like, oh man, I got to play well my
home course. Like so if you if you can kind
(45:35):
of frame it the right way, I think it's it's
a it's rereally a positive thing. But there's definitely like, yeah,
there's still an element of like, hey, I know I
know that course really well. I know I've played it
really well, but now can I play it really well
on a major in my in my backyard? And uh yeah,
hopefully that can. I mean I played played well there
last year in the in the wells, and honestly, I
(45:56):
don't feel like this stuff's gonna be a ton different.
I mean it mean, quihol awake up when it's ready
to go. You know, it's always it's ready to go.
And uh, new tea on nine, that's going to be
pretty pretty spicy. That hole is like five point fifteen now,
it was like four eighty five before, so actually becomes
(46:16):
tough to kind of get past the corner. I don't
know if you can pitch that hole, but guys kind
of driving it to the top of that hill bunkers
and play on the right. I've yet to come close
to that bunker from that back tee. Now it's been
the winter in Charlotte, but it's it's a bit more
demanding off the team because now it really needs to
be kind of a center to right center. And uh
(46:37):
but for a guy like Rory's not gonna think twice,
He's still going to go up in that corner. I
don't I don't think Johnny was too thrilled with the
Bunker on sixteen still being flyable last year. We had
a little bit of tailwin last year and it was
three forty. But like, I mean, he's the only guy
flying it, but like he's flying it with the lead
on Sunday and you're like, God, I just put that
bunker in new bunker, rand new bunker, brand new tea.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
This is supposed to be a right.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
We just got a parking lot behind the t so
we can still room.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Go back.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Marty, we were talking before we got going about home
games and you had a funny story about playing when
you played the Phoenix Open. But what were you saying
that The weirdest part of it was when you're driving
back home.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, just driving into my neighborhood and all my neighbors
and I got the courtesy car, and I'm like, what's
this guy doing? You know, they don't know, they don't
know I'm a golfer, you know, I'm just a neighbor
to them.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I'll return this one on Sunday regular.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, that was so fun.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
What were you driving in F one fifty?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
It was the It was an SUV that CV suv.
I think it was a Ford sev okay, but I
mean it's it's it's plastered. You came, you know, they
probably they probably thought I was hosting a player for
the week.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
They're staying with me this week, Mackenzie. We appreciate the time,
Good luck the rest of the season, and yeah, always
fun to watch it play and good chat with you.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, thanks Shane, Thanks mar Join it.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
This is the Pingk Proving Grounds Podcast.
The guys from Ping.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters.
Speaker 3 (00:04):
I just love that I can hit any.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Shot I kind of want. We're gonna be able to
tell some fun stories about what goes on here to
help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping prooven Grounds podcast.
I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and
Marty we got one of the nice guys on tour
joining us day Atckenzie Hughes. McKenzie a lot of podcast
Have you had a lot of podcast spots in your life?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I feel like since since COVID, I feel like podcasts
have taken off, and I feel like since then, yeah,
I feel like the podcast I've been on quite a
few since then, and but like prior to that, I
don't feel like there was as many, and I feel
like now it's yeah, it's coming up more and more
requests and first time beyond a ping podcast, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Are you a podcast listener?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
If I have the right drive, I will, And if
my kids aren't in the car, which is few and
far between, usually it's the kids TV is going in
the back, so you can't quite you know, intermix the audio,
but uh, do you like a good podcast? And I
feel like it can like if you've got on the
right podcast on nice drive, that can make it make
(01:10):
it go by quick.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
What type of podcasts are you into health and fitness stuff?
You know?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I like those uh you know those self improvement ones
or motivational ones. I mean like maybe like an ed
my Leb podcast or I actually listened listened to a
podcast Jason Bateman will our Net SmartLess. Yeah, so good,
that's a good podcast. Those guys are funny. Uh So,
(01:36):
it just kind of depends on what my mood is.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You know, like a maple leaf steal. Do you do hockey?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yea sometimes you know hockey podcasts or like those guys
are great. So yeah, just whatever you've been moved for.
But there's tons of good podcasts out there now and
and tons of great content.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah. I think a lot of the ping proven Grounds
podcast listeners they're very into the kind of we talk
tech stuff, golf, product design, club fitting to our your interview,
so this is gonna be a fun one, yeah, Mac
to kind of go into some of the details your gear.
I think how you train, get ready for tournaments. Y.
I'm personally very interested in your journey going from and
(02:12):
I've talked to Mike Carro, a little bit mutual friend
of ours, your trainer there, on what you've done to
kind of boost your ball speed in what you're doing
on the fitness side over the last you know whatever
five years or so.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, Yeah, he's been great, kind of changed the way
I looked at the fitness side of things. I think
I had a pretty good handle on it, but just
a little bit different focus for what I'm doing in
the gym. And yeah, it's it's nice to see it
kind of come through on a golf course. Actually, I
was just coming off the range where I was hitting
(02:44):
some drivers and I try to do like you know,
small groups two three times a week where I'll be
hitting drivers like hard with the intent to hit them
as hard as I can, and just a way to
train that that speed. Like that speed is a skill.
It's something you need to work at and constantly do.
And I find the more I do that, if I
can make sure I'm consistent with that, I can take
(03:05):
to that I can take that to the golf course
and you know, going from a one seventy seventy one
guy to a one seventy eight guy, Like that's that's
a big difference, and you know, a huge asset around
course like this for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
When you think about like speed, because speed's become such
a big part of golf, and you think about over
the last let's call it eight years, you know, it's
really become like a main focus not just for professional golfers,
but for the every day golfer as well. When do
you feel comfortable when you pick up seven eight mile
per hour ball speed and club at speed? When do
you start to feel comfortable going out on the golf
course in a tournament and feeling like, Okay, I can
(03:38):
unleash this one. Maybe you're playing you know, you're playing
Phoenix and you're on three, You're like, I'm gonna send one,
you know, right of that bunker. Yeah. Does it take
a level of commitment, you know, in terms of practice
to feel that comfortable doing it in a tournament?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah? I mean, I think the good thing about as
you're making speed games, you know, it's not as if
you overnight go from seventy two to seventy nine, so
that that gradual will step up where you know, one
week I go, you know, averaging seventy five that week,
and then the next week I'm averaging, you know, just
over seventy five, and then in three months I'm averaging
seventy seven point five or you know, and you just
(04:12):
it's slowly creeping up. But like the idea with when
I I'm doing it on the range, I like to
swing the way I'll do on the course. So it's
just I'm simply adding like a little bit of intent
to hit it harder, but typically swing within the same
framework of my swing. I'm not lifting up my left
heel or trying to jump off the ground. I'm not
(04:33):
doing anything like that. So I try to make it
as similar as possible to I'm gonna do on the course,
so I can at least bring that swing to the course.
Now there is an element of trust too, because if
you stand on a tee on let's say fifteen to
part five, you know, and you're gonna get your back
and one a little harder. Well, you can't miss it
really anywhere, right, you know, like you need to right yeah, yeah,
(04:56):
So you need to hit it a really straight drive there,
And honestly, distance isn't a huge priority there because you
hit a three thirty down there, it gets pretty narrow
and necky. So you hit a three tons off the tee,
which is not too difficult to do here in Phoenix.
You know you're in a nice spot hitting a foreign
in there. So you kind of pick your spots right,
Like you know, eleven T is a little squeeze cut
(05:18):
for me, preferably a little bit off the heel, a little.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Spinny, just get it in play, get in.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Place, you know, I want that ball spinning left right.
So there's there's your moments. You got to pick your
moments where hey, this is a this is a full center.
This is like a little you know, feeler. But I
think you look at the list of winners here, uh
you know, typically you know, length is a big advantage
to have. I mean there's some bunkers that you know,
like on eight. You know when Rory plays here, those
(05:47):
bunkers aren't in play. You know, that's a huge advantage
for that whole I mean, that whole right of the
bunkers is tight. Over those bunkers, you got the world.
So I think it's just something that's it's kind of
opened my eyes to know how important it is. And
look I know what's coming behind me, and it's it's fast.
So I'm just trying to just trying to just trying
(06:07):
to keep up. I just played a practice round with
the two hoy Guards brothers and yes, PRIs Benson and
I mean they had their quads out there all day,
you know, eighty two at eighty five, all all morning,
I mean it and it wasn't I mean it was morning.
So I'm like, I was like, I'm not moving as good,
and you know, I'm probably in the you know load
(06:29):
of mid one seventies and they're already cruising in the
you know, mid to lower one eighties, and I'm like,
that's uh, that's different. So I know, you know, that's
kind of the way that the game is going now,
and it doesn't matter what they do to equipment, what
they do to the ball, the golfer and the athlete
will just get faster.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean you're seeing it. You're seeing it throughout
every sport. I mean, think about how quick an athletic
defensive linemen are right now. I mean it's so incredib
They're running four threes, four fours, Marty. I wanted to
ask you, I mean, obviously with stack and everything like that.
I thought McKenzie said something very interesting about like not overswinging,
just overswing like trying to kind of make a swing
in practice that would be a swing on the golf course.
How do you talk to people that are using stack
(07:08):
in terms of that mentality where it's not just I'm
swinging as hard as I can as I'm practicing, and
then I got to go take that out on the
golf course.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, that's where we have when in our training, we
have different intents and Mac talked about that exactly. Is
just is just there's a certain intent you need to
take and if you can do it on the range, right.
And then one big thing we like to do, which
is the guys are doing in your practice around this morning,
is measure your ball speed on the course. So whether
it's you know, a little radar you take out there,
I mean, I think a lot of the guys using
(07:35):
quad are probably just looking at ball speed. Yeah, so
it's like taking that ball.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Speed to the court carry number, but really just a
couple of numbers because they're not lying it up for
runny club dat out there. Yeah, you know, they're just
looking to carry speed. You know, stuff like that Actually
the prg R that comes with stack it's actually really good.
I'm not I'm not sure if you use it all,
but like next to my track man the ball speed
numbers are like they never miss.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah I don't.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I don't look at club speed, but ball speed, which
is really what I'm after. It's money. Yeah, I mean
you just slid that thing in your bag pulled out.
I mean I kind of get some looks sometimes we're like, oh,
look at that little thing, like you know exactly I
cut my quad out here, like I cut my little
pr g R. But I've been a track man guy,
so like that's not really you can't bring on the course.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Pr GR Like just to get a few practice round
numbers is just great.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, no, it's sweet. That's what I like to do, Shane,
is just if I'm playing nine holes in the cart
late late in the evening, put our stack radar. It's
like the pr GR really good for ball speed. Just
put in your cup holder. You can put it down
in every single t box because ultimately you want to
you want to bring that speed to the golf course.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, and I think the idea is that you you know,
you get more comfortable doing it the more often you
do it. So if you're doing it in practice and
you're doing it when you play a match with your buddies,
and then you go do it when you play a
tour event, like it just it just gives you a
confensate this is okay, Yeah, I can actually go this
fast and it's still I actually like to use the
mentality sometimes of like people say, like and then the
(09:00):
old way of teaching was like slow and smooth, right,
like we just want to hit a straight straight, But
like if I asked a baseball player to throw a strike,
he wouldn't throw it softer to make sure you threw
a strike. You to throw a fastball, right, he's gonna
throw it fast to throw it straight, you know. And
I just think that sometimes, like we think that if
you're gonna go faster, we're gonna be more crooked. But
I've actually found that, like when I swing it hard,
(09:22):
my dispersion is as good, if not better. So, but
there's also whether there's a trust element to that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
How About from a shot shaving standpoint, you mentioned, you know,
hit a little control cuts out there when you're trying
to hit a far when are you trying to hit
it straight.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, when I when I'm hitting it further, I'm teeing
it a little bit higher and drawing away the balls
flying straight to maybe even fall on left. Okay, just
kind of what happens when I swing it harder. Yea,
I tend to get a little bit more up on
it and a little bit more right. But I know
that I know that. Well, that's that's kind of what happens.
(09:54):
And then you know, my my stock or more you know,
teed down swing is a little more on top of it,
a little more cut biased. So but again it's nice
just you guys gotta know you got no your tennessees
know what happens as you're gonna hit it harder. But yeah,
I think there's a st a little time and a place.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
There's like you got on certain holes out here and
you know, being three hundred of mill of fairways just fine,
you know, so just getting all and play find a
way to get get out there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So how crazy was it last year having three players
from Kent State on that President's Cup team? Like I
was going through some of the teams this morning, it's like,
you know, you get Bama and you get Texas and
you get these teams you expected to see and then
Kent State you got three players represented. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, I think, you know, that was a huge point
of pride for our school. My golf coach, her page
like that. That's just doesn't happen very often or ever really,
And you know, I'm in American school, uh, and we're yeah,
we're not. We're not in Texas, We're not on Alabama.
But you know, we've we've held our own over the years,
(10:58):
and I think, you know, we we're proud of that.
We're proud of, you know, the talent that's gone through
there and obviously a lot of Canadians going through that
that pipeline. But yeah, it was such a thrill not
only to be on that team, but to share it
with you know, two really good friends of mine, Corey
and Taylor, And yeah, I was that was a dream week.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You guys. I noticed you also traveled to South Africa
last fall to play that event. How'd that come to be?
Why did you? Why'd you go down there? I saw
you you had a great finish and Corey did as well.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, you know, I think as I you know, I'm
in year nine now, and I think it's cool to
get those opportunities and to see other parts of the world.
And you know, I've played on tour now for a
while and I've seen lots of great places, but you know,
I hadn't been down there, and I just had the
opportunity to go. They have those spots available to the
(11:52):
ten ten PG tour spots down there, and they got
an invite to go down and it was kind of
a no brainer. I just thought there would be a
cool experience. I had heard nothing but great things. Uh,
And we got treated awesome down there, Corey and our
caddies and a couple others of the Safari, which was
a really cool experience, and just everything about it was
(12:14):
really fun. Uh. Animals all over the golf course. We
were playing the one day and we're up on this
par three l a t and this like herd, I
don't even be called a herd or a pack of
chimpanzees just started like coming across the hole.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Are you like uncomfortable?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And well they they I was like, I didn't think
any of it, but they're like all those are those
areas are vicious, Like you got to stay away from
those guys because they're they're mean, and I mean, I
had no idea, but like it looked it looked like
they could be pretty aggressive. And then I was over
a putt like ten minutes later on that same hole
and I'm just about to hit my putt and I
hear this like growling and screaming, and I'm like, what
is that? And it was two chimpanzees like just like
(12:52):
one hundred yards away, just scrapping, like just having a
fight over something. And uh, I mean, that was probably
the first time in my career I backed off for
chimpanzee fight, so hopefully hopefully last. But it was really cool.
I loved it down there. Gary Player was the host,
got to meet him, and yeah, just a really fun week.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It feels like there's a push right now from pros.
I don't know who kind of started this, but there
seems to be and you said it, you know, you've
been doing this for a long time. There seems to
be an appreciation or at least an interest in a
little bit more global golf. You know, there's there's players
that are more insted in going and play in Australia,
around Australian Open and things like that go to Africa
and play do you feel that amongst your peers that
(13:33):
it's not just the localized tournaments that you play each
and every year, but to try to expand the horizons
a bit and play elsewhere that you haven't been before.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, And I think, you know, in this career, you
don't really know how long it will ever last, right,
You can get hurt and that and things can end abruptly.
You know, you hope that ever happens. But when you
have the opportunities and you get to a point like
I am in my career, I just think that you
take those chances, get the opportunities, and you don't you
just don't look back. Like my next one I would
(14:02):
love to do is Australia, Like you said, go do
those two back to back. You know, I'd love them
to be on like you know, like Royal.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Melbourne and like you know, like the Big Boys.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah. Yeah, so maybe I'll try and line up with
one of those, you know, those venues. But yeah, I
think just just it's just cool to go see those places, school,
to travel the world, to do what we do, because
like you said, you can kind of get very comfortable
in the bubble of the PGA Tour where I mean
we travel a little bit, but it we're very much
within the US and it's cool to kind of expand
(14:36):
your your experiences and you're in your horizons a little bit,
and uh, we're so fortunate to do what we do,
and now to have the lines with the DP World Tour,
some of those opportunities open up a little bit easier,
Like go play Wentworth next year. That would be something
I'd love to do. I've heard nothing but amazing things
about that. It's like the basically the players of the
(14:56):
of the of the DP World Tours. So yeah, just
it's fun to have those those opportunities, and I think,
you know, getting to my stage of my career, I'm like, oh,
I want to go do it now while I have
the chance and they still want me down there.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah. I mean like Rory, you know this winter, Rory,
it's December and he goes on a golf trip, you know,
to New Zealand because he's always wanted to do that.
When's the last kind of casual golf trip you've been on.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
It's it's been it's been a minute.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Do you have any interest in doing something or a
place you haven't played that you've always wanted to play.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I would like to do like abandon trip maybe one day.
I've never done that. People ask me that though, It's like,
I mean, you have kids. Yeah, I've got three kids.
So I get to go home on your vacation's kind
of going home. Yeah, Like I want to go home
and be home.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And then you get five weeks off in the off season.
You want to be home and uh, you know, and
I want to be also with my kids, but who
aren't traveling with me right now. So like it's tough
to just go home and then pick up and say, hey,
I'm going to go play.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
They're not gonna pay me for this.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
For it, it's a really tough sell to my wife.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And Charlotte's Ban is not a quick trip.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah. And also just like for me, you know, it's
not the right time. But at some point that will
there will be a time for that. You know, my
kids will be in high school and they'll have their
own activities and you know, maybe I'll be home a
bit more and that opportunity opens up. One week, you know,
I go for five days, six days, and but it's
it's phase two. I think you know, right now we're
(16:28):
so busy week to week, so many tournaments every year,
but that will slow down and then they'll open up
a time to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Marty. Do you have a place you haven't played that
you want to play a golf course?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
I think Australia. I haven't been down to Australia. Australia
sounds amazing a bit.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
That's a big golf trip.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, it's a big it's a big golf trip.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
But I mean it's now you're talking ten, twelve, fourteen days, right, Yeah,
you're spending time. I mean the obviously the Melbourne golf
is so good.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, if you're gonna fly that far, you're gonna be
there for yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Speaking of kids, Mac, I heard your seven year old
just got out of prodigies? Is that right? And how's
this fitting? How's his bag? How's his game?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So he's he's seven years old. The driver we actually
had it was funny. Uh, he was in twenty three.
He had his driver cut down at the Masters, so
we brought it to the Masters. He had it worked
on at Augusta.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
So he had his clubs worked on at Augusta and
I did not. I had no clubs worked on that week.
My son had his driver dialed in. So he loves it.
He loves his driver. His irons, I feel like they're
a little bit big for him at his age. So
he's got a couple like shorter ones that are non
non ping, but they're just like a little bit better
sizing for him. He'll grow into the Brady ones. But
(17:45):
the driver's awesome, The potter's great. He and he loves
it like he loves playing now. And he's been to
some pretty cool tournaments. He went to the President's Cup, walked,
and he's actually walked some rounds now.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So he's walked.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
He walked four full rounds last year in twenty for
so that's pretty big at seven years old. Like you know,
it's a big commitment to walker full round of golf.
You know, include some treats. You know, you go, you
have some treats along the way. Always got to keep
the interest as you go along. But he's actually into
it now. He does He does it twice a week
in like a group setting, which I think is great
because you you have fun doing it. It's not so structured,
(18:20):
but there's you know, there's information, there's lessons learned, and
then there's that element of I'm running around my buddies too,
you know, and the winning team gets a little treat
and uh so that's been a great, great thing for him.
And you know, when I asked him, like, golf is
number one. He's playing flag football, basketball, he's playing, uh baseball,
(18:42):
but golf's number one. So that's that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
The balance too, I mean, Marty, I'm sure you went
through this as well, but the balance of like being
a golf or being in golf, not wanting to feel
like you're pushing golf down their throat at the same
time kind of wanting you know, like I'm dealing this
with my son right now, it's like wanting them to
play golf with you.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So the balance is always kind of tough to to
really refine. But it's cool that you're at a place
now where it seems like there's a yeah, there's kind
of good synergy there.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah for sure. I mean, like I have no I don't,
I don't care one way or the other. You know,
like I just wanted to him to experience all those things,
experience all those sports and then just let him decide
he might not like golf, but he might love it,
and if he does, that'd be a huge bonus, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Now the bandon trip's an easier sell to exact.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, that's where my head, that's where this whole question started.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, let me get to sixteen. Then we're gonna go
on a family trip Tobandon.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And then you know, my wife she's got a set
up things as well, so you know she's wanting to
get into it as well. But at the same time,
she has the three small kids right, you know, at
home all the time, so like even that, it's like,
when's the time for her to go? You know, But
there will be a time and she will get into
it at some point, and it'll be fun if we
(19:54):
can do that in the family setting and just go
to quail, play nine holes, have dinner, and even if
it's just play three hold four holes, but just to
do it together and make it a you know, a
group effort and where were all together, that'd be that'd
be cool.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
One day, super fun. Speak of sports, what were your sports?
What what was your sports? And when'd you kind of
go in on all in on golf growing up?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So I think you know, I was kind of like
my song where like, growing up, I played a little
bit of baseball early, probably only like you know, let's
say a three or four year window where I played baseball,
played hockey growing up until I was like fourteen years old,
which is kind of a right, a passage in Canada. Yeah,
(20:38):
let's see, I played I played a little bit of
volleyball in high school, you know, in the winter months,
and so I I really kind of I did soccer
as well, but I was kind of doing a little
bit of everything, tasted a little bit of everything. But
I kind of found out, like around like the twelve
thirteen year mark, that I didn't love team sports quite
(21:01):
as much. And I was playing golf at that time.
I loved what golf asked of you because I felt like,
you know, I'd go to the course and I could
spend five six hours by myself practicing and playing, and like,
I like, I found enjoyment in that. I found like
that the solitude was nice, and like I'm a social
(21:24):
person with also you know a little bit of that
intrinsic uh, you know, personality as well, where I can
actually do quite well, like on my on my own
for quite quite a while, and I found like golf
just like you know, it was so peaceful, and I
loved that golf was like just on you, you know,
like you go, put the time in, you go, you
(21:46):
go do some work, like but you know whether it's
going great or going poorly, like it was on your shoulders.
And like I felt like with team sports sometimes you
get stuck with like teammates who didn't like or you know,
these guys are putting in tons of affork these guys aren't.
So I just I don't know that that was a
big part about drew me to golf too. And but
I did try quite a few sports growing up. When
(22:07):
I was playing hockey at thirteen fourteen, I hadn't really
hit a gross spurt yet and like, youth sports can
be kind of tough. Like I'm trying to picture like
well with comparison and be like football in the States,
maybe yeah, but like you're eleven, twelve years old and
you're playing football, Well, there's like twelve year olds that
are six feet tall and one hundred and sixty five
hundred and seventy pounds, and then there's twelve year olds
(22:28):
that are five foot two and one hundred and twenty pounds,
and I was that that kid, you know, I was
the small, you know, twelve year old, thirteen year old
and I found like I'm playing hockey and I'm just
I'm getting pushed around here, and I'm like, eah, golf
might be for me. Yeah, golf. Golf sounds a little better.
And when I was like fourteen, I hit a big
gross spurt and I was like, I basically grew like
(22:48):
eight inches in a year. I went from like being
five foot three to almost six feet tall in a year.
And then playing golf, I was like, oh, this is great,
Like I'm hit the ball way further, and I went,
you know, from kind of poking it out there to
hit in some pretty big drives at fifteen years old.
And but I think it's like when I talk to
people now, like I feel like I get that question
(23:10):
a lot. Hey McKenzie, my youngest son's playing golf. He's
eight or nine, Like, what do you what do you
recommend for him? I'm like, don't don't specialize in golf now,
don't don't limit him to just golf at eight or
nine years old. Play let him play sports, let them
let him be a kid, because you don't need to
do golf twenty four to seven to be really good
(23:30):
at golf at that age, and they're gonna become sick
of it. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna grow out
of the sport.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I feel like if you're pushed into it or you're
forced to basically only do golf at that age. And
uh So I tell people all the time and tell parents, like,
keep your kids in a lot of sports, like let
them have the balance and let them decide a little
later on, like what it is they want to do,
because they might not want to do golf. But if
you push them into golf, I don't think that's how
(23:57):
you have success. Like if you don't want to play
golf and your kid doesn't want anything, like they're not
gonna like you have to want They have to want it.
And I always wanted when I was a kid, my
parents weren't taking me the course. I was like, hey, mom,
like take me take me the course. I want to go, Yeah,
pick me up a dark you know. But if your
kids aren't telling you that, there's probably you know, there's
probably a reason why. And so I encourage parents all
(24:20):
the time, like, hey, let's let's let a lot your
kids play sports. Let them play what they want to play,
and at maybe thirteen fourteen years old, they go, hey,
they'll fit that I really like golf, and maybe I
want to play a little baseball or I want to
play a little basketball. I'm going to like narrow it down.
But they will tell you, you know, they're smart.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Versus them being pushed in the corner. By the way,
you mentioned football being like the hockey version, I was
the same way. I was really small until like ninth
grade and I grew, yeah, eighth grade, about five foot tall.
And I went around the corner catching a pass and
this guy that played safety at Baylor hit me helmet
off fumble. That was the end of my football.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I was like, this is I'm not doing this anymore.
This is I you realize quickly, maybe golf is going
to be my sport, or maybe ten it's going to
be sport, but I'm sure not going to be this
sport because it's not for me. Yeah it's a yeah,
I mean it's it's I think that's a good message
out there because I think we live in a society
now where I want my kid to be this. They
need to do this all the time. It's not really
(25:19):
how we work. I mean, we change interests and you
know as adults, right yea.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
And I feel like the the culture around sports is
definitely different in the United States. I mean there's there's
definite I definitely notice that coming from Canada, that the
intensity and the focus around sports, especially at a young age,
like it's ramped up quickly. Like my son was playing
baseball this past fall, was barely seven years old, and
(25:48):
the coaches out there arguing calls in the mound with
the other and I'm like, I'm like, I can assure you,
these kids don't care that much. Let's let's let it.
Let's let it go right, right, and the parents, you
care more than they care. The parents really don't care,
so like let's let's move on. But yeah, I just
think that that can kind of like take away from
they can take a take away from the kids enjoyment
(26:08):
of it if it becomes too serious too early. And uh,
look at seven, eight, nine years old. Yeah, I mean
we're not moving mountains like. These kids are just there
to have fun, learn the game, you know, And god,
I just think it gets it gets too serious. Too
quickly in my opinion, looking at it from the outside,
like I see parents, you know, working with their kids
(26:30):
of the course and doing certain things, and I'm like,
and I don't. I don't step in. It's not my place.
But you know, I see it. I can see it
from the outside a lot. And you know, I just
think if if it was me giving advice, I'd say, hey,
you know, I think less is more at that age.
Let them have fun, lumby kids and then they figured out.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Mackenzie, I wanna we talked a little bit about your
distance gains and how important that's been to you. I
think it's been incredible. Looking at your short game stats
over your entire career stroke uh strokes gained around the
green strokes game putting, your stats have been incredible. What
do you do to kind of maintain? Have you always
been a good putter, even before you got on tour?
And then what do you do to kind of maintain
(27:14):
What do you think your strengths are from a putting standpoint.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
So I'd say, like, before I got on tour, I
felt I was a good putter, but I would have
been classified as a streaky putter, I think, but I
got got hot at times, but you know, week to
week it wasn't where I wanted to be playing corn
Fery Tour. And then I felt like my rookie year
on tour, I found I found something, And from that
(27:43):
point on, I'd say, I've been, you know, one of
the better partters out here for the last you know,
six seven, eight years.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
You would you find.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
You know, I can't really pinpoint, to be honest, what
I found uh that particular year, but I found a
feeling my stroke, and I to be honest, I put
differently now, but I found a feeling my stroke, and
for whatever reason that it just felt really good. I
(28:14):
was able to kind of ride that out for a
long time. But I made a ton of putts and
the hole started to look big to me.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It started it wasn't a grip change or a stroke
change anything necessarily.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Just something click, a little feel, and then I started
to like roll a few like weeks together where I
was like, man, I'm making a lot of nice putts,
a lot of mid range putts, and then it just
kind of felt like that became a little more normal.
It just felt like making putts was like a normal
thing for me. And then I just kind of stumbled
that confidence. And like, to be honest, when I look
(28:47):
back at my stroke from my rookie year, I don't
like it. But I was the eighth ranked plot around
tour that year. I just I was aiming left when
I was pushing it online, but I did every single time.
And uh, I've kind of you know, straightened out since then.
But like the confidence I built for my year like that,
it's like still carried with me. Like I saw the
blogging a whole lot, and i'd I'd have weeks where I,
(29:09):
you know, gained three, four or five strokes putting and
that was like a big jump up for me that
that rookie year. And yeah, like I say, like now
to like maintain where I'm at with my putting, I
really feel like it's I do the same thing almost
every single day, so and I don't do anything really fancy,
(29:31):
but like I just I start my day with, you know,
start line straight left to right, right to left. I'll
do that for fifteen minutes. And I do the same
like three or four drills every day, uh speed short
putt drills. But I don't I don't really vary my
routine hardly at all. And then as far as like
what I focus on when I'm on the course, my like,
(29:52):
my focus is really down to like what I can
control in my box, So I call it like my
my I'm in my playbox right over the ball, and
like I'm really someone that's very process oriented with like, hey,
if I like check those boxes off, I can accept
the outcome over here. So I'm not like a guy
that says, hey, like miss make good, put bad putt.
(30:15):
I'm like, oh, I missed this butt from eight feet.
I had a great putt. I did what I was
trying to do, great putt, you know. And I feel
like that actually helps from a confidence standpoint, because if
I was just based on my confidence on miss make well,
I wouldn't be very confident because you miss a lot
more puts than you make. So I feel like you
can gain confidence hitting a putt from ten feet that
you feel like you rolled it well, did what you're
(30:36):
trying to do. I miss, but I did what I
was trying to do. So I think that's something that's
helped me. And something I kind of try to tell
amateurs sometimes is like, hey, you know, you missed that
twelve foot putt, But like the odds are you were
going to miss that putt? So like, I don't know
why you're mad, Like you hit a good butt over
the over the right edge, Like, oh I should have
made that putt. No, you shouldn't have. You you're a
(30:59):
twelve handicap. You know, it's the twelve foot put My
odds are probably thirty percent or forty percent to make
that putt. Your odds are fifteen percent.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Maybe, Yeah, So I was gonna say. I mean that,
like to your point, it feels like amateurs struggle with
accepting like the percentages.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Yeah, I think that's a big thing. Like if you
could lay out ahead of time, Hey, before you hit
this butt this fifteen foot, realize you are a one
and twenty chance of making this putt for like a
twelve handicap, right, Like if I lay that out to
you right now, Like, that's gonna change the way you
approach that butt.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Probably, yeah, just trying to hit itid maybe it goes in.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Yeah, it's all with good speed, right, get on a
reasonable line and you two butt. You've probably like exceeded
the expectations, you know. But I think the mentality is,
like I watch on TV, it's got they make them
all the time. You know, all leaders make these puts
all the time. But like again, you show the guys
playing the best every week, and when you guys flipped
it to a shot, you typically aren't going to like
(31:59):
many misses.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Right, you know, like you guys Saturday, you're not going
to show an eight foot or miss.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So we watched guys making putts all the time, and
I think people are programmed to think, oh, ten foot putt.
You just you make these like they're like free throws, right,
they're not.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And the greens were smoother on tour.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, we put on better, We put it very good.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, that's that's that's actually a sneaky good point too.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
It was like when their cars down, for sure going
to go, but golf course go down.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I want to hear the father in law cell phone
bill story. Can you tell that for us if you
don't mind.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, So I was playing at corn Fair events in
New York.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It was at this this what years is like twenty.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Sixteen, uh peak and peak and uh this actually the
year I got my tour card. And this is actually
a great story because so I'm like three or four out,
I do the Monday qualifier, and I started the year
with a full card, had the first eight eight starts
(33:01):
or so, hadn't played great in the first like third
of the year, was on the outside looking in. Monday
qualified but missed. I got into my number.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
The next day.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
So Tuesday, I get in the tournament, don't have a
cally lined up. My buddy Keith from Canada comes up,
calls for me, and first day, just to kind of
a prelude to the story, he puts his running shoes
on top of the car, the car next to us,
and we pulled out of our house that week, we're
(33:33):
staying at my in laws and we pull out of
the driveway and he's wearing his broking Stock sandals, but
he leaves his shoes on the other car. So we
get to the course morning tea time Thursday, and he's
squeaking down the first hole is with his sandals on,
barefoot and the sandals just adding for me run kind
(33:54):
of walking through the rough feet are soaked. I'm like, sweet,
nice job, dude, you had one in your shoes. Next time,
So Friday, so I shoot even part of the first
day and the cut is going to be low. It's
probably going to be you know, five or six under.
So I needed to go out there and shoot you know,
a really low round on on Friday. And my father
(34:14):
in law we're sitting there at the house on Thursday night,
and at this point, my wife and I are still
on the family Plan. So I'm I think I'm twenty
five years old and I somehow manage to get my
way onto the family plan. And so my father in
law's playing paying the phone bill and he goes, all right,
I'll make you a deal. You can stay on the
stay on the on the family plan for another year
(34:37):
if you shoot six hundred tomorrow. So I'm like, all right,
that's a that's a fair deal. And we're going down
the last hole. I finished on number nine. I hit
the shot in there to like eight feet and at
this point, I'm now I'm thinking about it, like I've
now I'm like, oh, you thought up a frid with
that bet. So yeah, now I've made I've made the cut.
(34:59):
I've we got like I think a shot to spare
got Birdie putt in the last hole and I just
sent or cut it and I look over there, like
one hundred yards down the fairway, and I was like
doing one of these and uh, you know my wife's
obviously each year and and uh it was it was
super funny. But yeah, that's a that's a cool story.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
How how long did you get the bill? Paid for
it for another year?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Another year? Plan?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
So they kick you off? What what what happened to
get you kicked off the bill?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I think later that year got my tour card and
I was like, you're like, yeah, you're good now, you know,
you guys are fine. So but it was that's a
cool story, that's.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's that's great, And you played well the rest of
the week.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I actually finished fifth that week, which
like it was a big week for me, got me
like in the next kind of wave of tournaments. And
then a month and a half later I won and
then got my tour card. So it was it's crazy
how like you're on the outside looking in. Yeah, you're
not sure if you're gonna get played that week, you
(35:54):
play well, a month later, you win and you're on
the tour and it's like it just like boom, it happens.
And you feel like, you know, a month prior to that,
like you kind of feel like you're in the woods
and all of.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
A sudden, you're almost questioning, like what should I be doing?
All of a sudden? Can I do this?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Am I?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Am I at this level? Can I have that breakthrough?
And then a month later I win, And then two
months later I went on tour and you're just like, wait,
I wasn't sure I was good enough.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
That little world.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, so I don't have to work about eighteen and
TV anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's crazy what that little bit of belief and self
confidence does like. But from actually doing it, it's one
thing like to say, hey, I'm I am good enough,
but like once you see it and it like you
have that like that that peak and peak was the
kind of a bit of a breakthrough performance for me
where I'm like, hey, I was like on the outskirts
of contention here and had a chance to somewhat win there,
(36:46):
And that was like a big one for me where
I'm like, I can't do this. And then I went
on the corn Ferry and then when I was on
the I had the lead at the RSM that year
and I'm like, I just won two months ago. I
mean I can do this, but like the guys say
month ago, like you know it wasn't sure right right,
So it's just it's crazy how it just like it
clicks and it's like okay, I can't do this, and yeah,
(37:08):
hello world, right.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And you wanted a big playoff?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
It was that five five man playoff and it went
in went to Monday morning.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Do you guys play all five or did you split up?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So we played all five awesome, played two holes on
Sunday night, and then ran out of light. Had to
come back Monday morning, but we lost one on the
first playoff hole I think, and then came back the
next morning to play one more hole. So but even that,
like you know, I look back and I you know,
the fact that I won that playoff, you know, the
(37:39):
way it played out like was just it was just
so like the stats would just be like there's no chance,
like it just so I like, I hit it long
left and I pitched up and I almost see the
great shot. I left it just shore of the green
and I had like a sixteen foot plot from the
fringe and everyone I had missed the green. I mean,
this is like one hundred and ninety five yards forty
two degrees wins off the right, Like this is the
(38:01):
first swing of the day and everyone misses the green
and everyone gets inside me, so everyone's got a putt
from inside me. I'm the first first to go, and
I'm thinking to myself, well, like, you know, if I
can make this, like I can put the heat on,
and sure enough I make it. And I watched the
three guys miss and but like, but at no point
(38:22):
when I made the putt was I like I just won.
I was like, maggot, I get to play one more, right, yeah,
And I'm like, is it gonna be two guys one?
But like one of these guys is gonna make it?
And you know once once, like the first guy missed,
but I'm like, Kayler's so two. And then it didn't
hit me till the second guy missed. I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Shit, Like you know who the last guy was to putt?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Camillo? Okay, so Camilla had like a six foot putt
and he's above the whole kind of a little bit
of like a soft left to righter and uh, that
was the first moment I allowed myself to think, oh,
if this ball doesn't go and I win, and I'm
like no, no, no, he's gonna make it. We're gonna
go at eighteen and then blinks and he misses it,
and I'm like, wow, I was just like what just happened? Yeah,
(39:05):
you know, so crazy crazy stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Well, you're probably we talked about your putting, how good
that's been, and uh, what about your wedge setup? I
find it's very unique. You're you play your law budge
at sixty three degrees? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
So how long have you been doing that? And I'm
always curious because I've hit a sixty four sixty three occasionally,
like how far can you max that out if you
hit it full? And do you hit it full shots
with him much?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
I actually do, because I find that there's just there
is a time when you want to hit something that's
like ninety ninety five yards or even one hundred yards
that like has a lot of spin on front pin
with you know, a firm green Yeah, so I can
max that out at about one hundred yards.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, sixty three degree?
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, geez, I'd be like eighty maybe.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I'm.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
You know, and obviously, like you know, you're putting it
back in your stance, it's a bit's a bit more backfooted. Yeah,
that ball cannot be foard of your stance at all,
where it's it's going like this, so and I don't
do it a ton, you know, where I'm ever like
maxing that club up. But like again, like there will
be a time this week where I will max that
club out because it will get firm by the weekend
(40:15):
all of a shot from one hundred yards the will
maybe a little bit of helping win. And I'll want
that ball to have as much spin as if it
could possibly have it. Whereas if I hit that fifty
six and I'm taking fifteen yards off it and trying
to control a hit a three quarter shot, that ball
could bounce, bounce, bounce to check and be thirty feet
past the hole quickly. So you know, I think it's
important to have that ability to stop it quick at times.
(40:39):
And I always felt like around the greens, I wanted
to have as much loft as possible with a particular
club because I always know I can go down and
loft if I need to hit a low a low shot,
you know, I can go to fifty six, I can
go to gap, or I can put the low wedge
back in my stants. I can always decrease that loft.
But like adding and creating excess loft. On tour, I
(41:02):
feel like around the greens is a big advantage because
we play a lot of four pinch, you know, four
steps from the right, three from the right firm short
sighted a lot. Like to me on tour, it became
a huge advantage to have all that height, all that
speed and spin because like you know, at sixty or
fifty eight degrees, yeah, it's great, but like at sixty three.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
You look at that club and you go, hoole.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Man, I can get basically any pin around these greens.
And so I felt like I was playing with sixty
two and I ended up adding a degree of loft.
And I've never really regretted it, and I've just kind
of gone with it. And like I said, you, when
I'm pitching with that club, you wouldn't know it's sixty three,
like you'd watching around the greens. Ah, you're just kind
of pitching with it like a sixty or fifty eight.
Put it back of my stance. I drive them. But
(41:47):
then when I need to, you know, I can get
that ball up in the air quick.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
When did when did the when did you go from
did you grow up using a sixty? Like when did
you go to.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I was always like a pitching wedge. Fifty two, fifty six,
sixty guys, sixty yeah, nice and clean, and then I just,
you know, I was kind of messing around one time
and I just feel like, I think it was my
last Caddie was just like, hey, why don't you just
like add them off to that long We're just like,
we can always like take it down, but let's just
see if we like it a little more. I think
(42:16):
I started at sixty two and I was like, Hey,
how far can we go with this? I'm like, yeah,
sixty three, Like that's probably both as much as you
want to go.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
And so it's gonna if you thought sixty four, sixty five?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yeah, is there? What's the legal limit? What's the legal
is there?
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Oh? No, you can go to anything? Yeah right yeah,
really ball just slip right up the face, but you
can do it.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
What are you the most loft? But you could play
with and like, actually, what would be reasonable? I think
you had sixty eighth reason loft?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Like, well, that's why I'm very curious of it, because
it's rare to play. I've wanted sixty three. There's not
a lot of guys out there doing it because the
ball starts to like you get into the friction between
the ball and the face, and the ball starts to
just slip more than grip. Yeah, And in order to
get spin, you need the ball to kind of stick
on the face. That's the grip force. Yeah, but you
(43:06):
have to have a lot of speed to do it
to get it to grip. This is why you see
Phil and Bubba. Now you the high speed players of
the world. You know, using the high lofted wedge, you
get a little more spin around the greens. But I
think you could you you know, I don't know. You
hit a flop shot, you've got the face open to
like eighty eighty five degrees, probably right, if you're really
sending one up there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
How many guys do you think on tour have more
than sixty?
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I think it's probably under ten percent, under ten percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I wonder if it's going to go that way, just
as as we get longer and longer and longer, I
wonder if guys are going to creep into the sixty
three sixty four to sixty five degree world.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Well, and I think too, I mean, if I'm if
you're if you're a guy that cruises at one eighty
five ball speed. I would want to have an extra wedge. Yeah,
not a not a not a three shirt, you know
what I mean? Ye Like, for a guy like that,
it's more valuable to have tighter gaps at those wedges
and all to a wedge that you could hit from
one hundred and five yards or one hundred and ten
yards but hit a full right and create tons of spin.
(44:07):
I think that's probably the way it would It would
creep because guys now just have so much speed and
those opportunities to hit those wedges become more prevalent.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Could be laying out a new trend. This could be
the next trend of the professional golf problem. As we
wind out, I wanted to ask how pumped you to
have a major at home this year?
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Really pumps? That's uh. We talked about that being very
unique just to have.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I mean your home tournament.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Well, yeah, a tournament in your own backyard is one thing.
A major at your home course that's a that's a
weird one, but be super fun. Just to have the
clumb club support, to be in your own bed, Yeah,
that's going to be really cool.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Pressure Like, do you do you feel added amount of
like I've got to play well, I've got to make
the cut, like I've got to do those things.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
You definitely feel those things. But I think that's normal,
and I think that as as that we comes closer,
I'll you know, I'll talk to my guy and my
team and and you know, and we'll we'll basically, you know,
come to grips with like hey, yeah, you're gonna want
to do well because it's your home course and everything
like that, but like this is no different than the
(45:14):
other week, and you you have to have the mentality
I think of like embracing that, like, hey, I'm going
to see a bunch of people that know me and
everyone's gonna want me to do well. That's fun, you know,
like look at it. Look at it like a positive Yeah,
hey I'm not actually extra support and whether I play
great or don't, like they're behind me, rather than viewing
it like, oh man, I got to play well my
home course. Like so if you if you can kind
(45:35):
of frame it the right way, I think it's it's
a it's rereally a positive thing. But there's definitely like, yeah,
there's still an element of like, hey, I know I
know that course really well. I know I've played it
really well, but now can I play it really well
on a major in my in my backyard? And uh yeah,
hopefully that can. I mean I played played well there
last year in the in the wells, and honestly, I
(45:56):
don't feel like this stuff's gonna be a ton different.
I mean it mean, quihol awake up when it's ready
to go. You know, it's always it's ready to go.
And uh, new tea on nine, that's going to be
pretty pretty spicy. That hole is like five point fifteen now,
it was like four eighty five before, so actually becomes
(46:16):
tough to kind of get past the corner. I don't
know if you can pitch that hole, but guys kind
of driving it to the top of that hill bunkers
and play on the right. I've yet to come close
to that bunker from that back tee. Now it's been
the winter in Charlotte, but it's it's a bit more
demanding off the team because now it really needs to
be kind of a center to right center. And uh
(46:37):
but for a guy like Rory's not gonna think twice,
He's still going to go up in that corner. I
don't I don't think Johnny was too thrilled with the
Bunker on sixteen still being flyable last year. We had
a little bit of tailwin last year and it was
three forty. But like, I mean, he's the only guy
flying it, but like he's flying it with the lead
on Sunday and you're like, God, I just put that
bunker in new bunker, rand new bunker, brand new tea.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
This is supposed to be a right.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
We just got a parking lot behind the t so
we can still room.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Go back.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Marty, we were talking before we got going about home
games and you had a funny story about playing when
you played the Phoenix Open. But what were you saying
that The weirdest part of it was when you're driving
back home.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, just driving into my neighborhood and all my neighbors
and I got the courtesy car, and I'm like, what's
this guy doing? You know, they don't know, they don't
know I'm a golfer, you know, I'm just a neighbor
to them.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I'll return this one on Sunday regular.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, that was so fun.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
What were you driving in F one fifty?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
It was the It was an SUV that CV suv.
I think it was a Ford sev okay, but I
mean it's it's it's plastered. You came, you know, they
probably they probably thought I was hosting a player for
the week.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
They're staying with me this week, Mackenzie. We appreciate the time,
Good luck the rest of the season, and yeah, always
fun to watch it play and good chat with you.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, thanks Shane, Thanks mar Join it.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
This is the Pingk Proving Grounds Podcast.
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