Barbie Adler Meets World

We’re heading back into the Boy Meets World writer’s room to learn about crafting a sitcom, directly from Emmy award winner, Barbie Adler. 
 
Barbie reveals how a clerical error, and fetching comic books, led to her first writer’s room and penning Season 5 classics like “Raging Cory” and “Eric Hollywood.” 

And she shares stories from other legendary shows on her resume, like Arrested Development, How I Met Your Mother and Nobody Wants This.

It all started with Shawn, Eric & Topanga - but only one cast member caused the most rewrites! Find out who when we go behind the scenes on a new Pod Meets World…

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday I went and got a lymphatic massage. I don't

(00:22):
know if you guys have ever heard of one.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yes, blood from your face.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
No, No, it's just a it's not a like a
super enjoyable massage, like a massage where they're working on
your muscles. It is literally to help move things through
your lymphatic system. And so it's like getting rid of
trapped gas, sexy or helping just helping get rid of toxins.
So since I you can, yeah, it can happen. This

(00:50):
was my first lymphatic massage, and one of the reasons
I'm having it is because now that I've had a
lymph node removed, I have noticed some lymphidema. I have
a little bit of swelling. And the heart part is,
now that I have a lymph node removed, it's like
that one won't work, so I have to find other.
I just need to keep everything moving lymphatic wise. And
they're very popular right now. It's kind of like they've

(01:10):
always existed. But you know, sometimes all of a sudden,
just something gets in the zeitgeist and you can't stop
hearing about them. I have been hearing about lymphatic massage
for a long time, and I was like, you know what,
I need one of those. I'm going to go get
a lymphatic massage. And so I had my first one
yesterday and I'm on the table and I'm a little
uncomfortable because it's, like I said, it's not like a

(01:31):
super enjoyable massage. It's really just kind of like moving
things through. And all of a sudden, the cell phone
rings of the therapist and she leaves the room. And
then she comes running back and she's like, okay, okay,
no problem, and she's flipping on the lights and she
is she is rather panicked, and I'm just still laying

(01:53):
on the table and I go, what's going on? And
she goes, the building is on fire. We have to
go right now. And I go, really, yes. She goes,
get up, get dressed. I throw I throw off the sheets,
I pull.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
On all my.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yes terrifying, Oh my god, the building.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Is on fire. We have to go. I throw on
all my clothes. I grab my purse, I grab my
bottle of water. I have everything I need within seconds.
And she is it's the only the two of us
in this tiny little place, and she's like having to
check things, and I'm like I'm not leaving without you.
She's like, oh go, I said, I'm not leaving without you.
She's like okay, thank you. And she's like turning, She's
turning off lights and gathering things. I'm like, let's go,

(02:33):
let's go. We run out the fire sprinklers. The sprinklers
in the building are going off, so it is raining
inside the building. I see people coming out of other
offices exiting, also frantic, but there's no alarms going off
in the building, like there's no fire alarm. And I'm like,
why is it so quiet in here? I just hear

(02:54):
the sound of the water and and like door is closing.
We go running through the hallway to the staircase, which
happens to be right next to the elevator, and there's
a woman standing there and she did not want the
area in front of the elevator didn't have sprinklers, so
it was dry right there. And she was like, I'm
gonna take the elevator. And I was like, you are

(03:14):
not taking the elevator. You are not the you cannot
take the.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Elevator, take the stairs.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Let me go. And we're like grabbing hands and three
of us running down the staircase getting sprinkled on. I
run past a firefighter who's running in, and I go,
what's going on? He's like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I'm like, all right, I'm getting.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I go running out. There are dozens of people who
had been inside the building standing there.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Recording on their phones to see.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I guess. I don't know what's behind me? Is the
building up in flames? I have no idea, but all
I could picture when I ran out to like a
wall of people with their cell phone to someone having
footage of like to.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Penga fleas building with me, get out of the way, granny,
I are their first class boats.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Literally just walked out, turned around, saw that the building
didn't have like giant flames coming out of it, just
walked right to my car my garden drove.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Oh that's it. So you never found out what happened.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
What happened. Later, the woman who booked me for the
Limbatck massage was like, I'm sorry, it turns out there
wasn't a fire, but honestly, I smelled smoke. I truly
smelled smoke. She said there was a gas leak, okay,
but why would the fire sprinklers on if there was
just the alarm.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
But even if you pull the alarm, the sprinklers I
think are activated by heat correct.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Or smoke of some kind. So I'm not sure about
this gasleak situation. I also need to investigate it now
today that they have more information, she texted me that
it was gas leak. Like when I was still in
the car having fleed, I was waited for it to
be like.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
This was all part of your massage.

Speaker 6 (05:08):
What I was gonna say is that massage is first
we massage you where it's really unpleasant, and then we're
scared and relaxed, and that normal life just feels amazing.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Dongratulations, It's like the game. It's like a movie. Oh
my gosh.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
I yeah, I just I couldn't believe it. I called
Jensen Johnsen was like, hey, what's up. I was like,
I just ran out of what I was told was
a burning building and now I'm at homemade in a salad.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
So are you going to go back and have them
do the other half of the body? Does that work?

Speaker 7 (05:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:46):
They did offer me a free one to make up
for this one, so yeah, I'll probably go back and
give it a chance. But I'm wondering if I'm ever
going to be able to relax in a massage, I couldn't. Never,
of course not. I think that's like such a worst
case scenario of like what happens if you're laying naked
in a room? Like, what's the worst scenario?

Speaker 4 (06:04):
All the building is on fire, and you wait, do
you go full naked when.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
You get massages?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I wear my underwear?

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Okay, yeah, so you don't, that's what I was.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, all right, but I mean it's close enough.

Speaker 7 (06:15):
It is is no, But I was running because I
know some people go full Monty when they're I find that.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's just a personal decision.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, but.

Speaker 7 (06:24):
Yeah, now you'd want to run running out of the building,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna do everything in pants and
T shirts.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
And yeah exactly, I'm gonna be like, just let me
just hold my purse just in case. I'm just gonna Yeah.
It was anyway, it was a really fun experience. And
the minute it happened to said, can't wait to tell
the guys about this.

Speaker 7 (06:43):
This is.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
My life.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Now my life is making a pre show. Welcome to
pod meets World. I'm run from a burning building Danielle.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Fisher, I'm Right or Strong, and I'm wilfredll.

Speaker 7 (07:10):
So.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
One thing we noticed during our season five Rewatch was
a slew of new names joining the writer's room, either
full time or in a freelance position. The show had
become easier to produce, and past familiar faces had gone
on to get their own deals or join other developing
Michael Jacob's shows, So it makes sense that with a
twenty four episode order, it was time to get some

(07:31):
new hands on deck. Some of these additions would stick
around till closing time, while some just swung by to
help with workload and never even stepped foot on set.
But one thing they all seem to have in common
is an impressive IMDb page filled with project after project,
even now basically thirty years later. Whether it's Andy Gerdatt,
who spent forty years in the business helping shape Paw

(07:53):
Patrol and Fancy Nancy in what was the third act
of his career, or Laura Olson, currently working on the
modern day reboot of Baywatch, a show that's got us
all tiresly working out while we wait for her call.
And this week's guest is another impressive example. We knew
her as Barbie Feldman, a first time writer with a
very cool name, joining Boy Meets World in nineteen ninety

(08:15):
eight and staying with us till the bitter end. But
talk about a first impression. She had two scripts in
her first season of her first writing job, and those
two scripts raging Corey and Eric Hollywood suow some Bangs.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, I got both of those on my list. It
didn't both of those on my list. Yeah, I got
the Feldman list.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
But if you followed Barbie's career since writing for us, Goofballs,
those impressive episodes shouldn't surprise you. Now, Barbie Adler, she'd
add shows like Evan Stevens, My Name Is Earl Up
All Night, How I Met Your Mother, Life in Pieces,
and Bless this Mess to her resume, while creating the
sitcom Kevin from Work and winning an Emmy for the
absolute classic Arrested Development, where she wrote seven episode odes

(09:00):
and she's still making hits. Just last year, she wrote
and produced on the Netflix water cooler phenomenon Nobody Wants This,
And I'm sure she's working on something right now that
is much funnier than our podcast. This week, we are
honored to welcome Barbie Adler to Pod Meets World.

Speaker 7 (09:19):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Oh my gosh, it's so great to see you, So.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Great to see you, guys. Oh, this is so exciting.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
It's so exciting.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
For a ten minutes, I as I feel.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Like I think I saw you during the strike, right, like, yeah, quick,
hugging the law and the yeah, the in a marching line. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Thank you so much for joining us once we entered
season five. We have been dying to get you on
and reunite, but you are so busy. Kudos to you
for staying so busy in a really hard time. And
so now before we take all the credit Boy Meets
World for your incredibly successful writing career, let's talk about

(10:00):
out how Boy Meets World was your first ever writing job.
How did this happen?

Speaker 3 (10:04):
You can take credit for a.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Lot of Yes, you're welcome.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
How do you feel as fair? I so that was
my very first writing job, and I I will say,
if I was trying to get a job now at
that level, with you know, like starting out with the
skill level I had at the time, there's no chance
in hell I would have gotten a job. There's just

(10:32):
no way. People have to be so much better now
from the jump, like when you get to you know,
you should know everything. I didn't know anything, and I
really learned like everything at Boy means World, Like that's
where I started. And that was because I had been
you know, i'd been in the offices and like an

(10:53):
assistant and I was Michael's you know, second assistant for
a while.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
And so that's how you got the job.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Well I got that. So do want me go back?

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yes, you still didn't actually know that. We didn't know
that you were michael second assistant.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Here's here's I'll tell you the story. So I so
I'm from the Midwest. I came out here. I went
to school in San Diego, but I didn't know anybody
out here, like no connections, nothing. I didn't even know
what every different job did on a TV show. Like
I was so disconnected from like, hey, what's real here?
And I kind of was just really fearless at that

(11:34):
time where I was. I was and this is back
in the day. You're on the phone all the time.
So I'm like back at the Hollywood reporter calling everybody
doing everything like going and I somehow, you know, I
would call people and I somehow got put on the
name on a list of the internal like PA, the
pas that had been approved for Disney, and I didn't

(11:55):
even know I was on this list. So then so
then somebody called me. It was Mitch, I don't know
you talk about Midge Bang called me and he was like,
you know doing this. It was about a pilot and
it wasn't was of Michael Jacob's pilot and you're starting
up and whatever and you're on this list and do it.
And I had the whole thing. And then at the
we were talking and talking and talking and then he's like, oh,

(12:17):
I'm so sorry. I meant to call the name under
your name and I was like, no, dude, So what
I'm on the phone, I'm yeah, and I yeah, and
I'm like that's I'm getting this job. So basically I
got that job. Was on a pilot ESPA that didn't go.
Michael made me the second assistant, which was the he

(12:39):
had the major assistant. This is back in the day,
and then a second asidant who was like mostly doing
personal stuff. Lots of running around town and this is
again pre internet, so you're like running everywhere to do everything.
And that was my day. There's a lot of you know,
filling his car with gas, or going in talking out
these gifts and doing this and a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Softball bats Go buy a softball bat form?

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Oh no, go buy twelve which one I like? And
then take back?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Did you go comic book shopping? Did you have to
go get comic book?

Speaker 7 (13:09):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yes, oh yes, you just brought that back.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I was like, yeah, don't you remember that?

Speaker 7 (13:16):
The baseball anytime we started anything, ping pong, paddles, baseball gloves,
any of that stuff, that's what Michael would get.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, yourts.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Did you ever have to iron his jeans?

Speaker 8 (13:28):
No?

Speaker 3 (13:29):
I think I would have been a I think we
crossed the line. They did not do that. I did
picking up gifts, lots of returning, lots of watches, lots
of clothes, lots of run this over. I would have
to help like other like it's beyond just the person,
it's like their family.

Speaker 6 (13:45):
You know.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
It was a lot, and then I sort of But
the good thing was about Michael. Even I'm sure you
guys have talked to this subject to death. But he
wanted to like he wanted to know what I wanted
to do, Like, what do you want to do? He
knows you don't like doing.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Right, sure.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
So he was like, what do you want to do?
And I had been on the set of Boyman's World
a little bit, going to run through, you know, bringing
him things. And I come down there and I was like,
I was a TV kid growing up, nothing but a
TV and I was like, I think I can do this.
I think I can write. I want to write. And
he was like, okay, go pitch me. Come back with

(14:28):
pitches for three Boy Means World episode ideas, and then
you all picked the one and you can write that spec. Like,
just write as a spec as a sample.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, I wrote one.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
I'm trying to remember what it was about.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I was going to ask you remember what the pitch was.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
I was just I'm sitting here. I'm like, bring it back,
bring it back. I think it was maybe Corey had
was it a penpals something was uh and the name
was just uh. He thought it was a boy, ended
up being a girl. It ended up being a date.
Benga didn't like that, you know, it was just like, oh,
that was the thing. I think that was the one

(15:04):
I ended up doing.

Speaker 7 (15:05):
It's very yeah, cool story.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
So so I did that. It turned in and he
was like, okay, you know back in the day, you
would be able to you'd have these episodes, you know,
you'd get twenty two episodes of season or more. And
the guild, I believe it was a guild rule that
every thirteen I think you'd have to or maybe one
out of the season you'd have to farm out to

(15:29):
a writer who wasn't in your staff.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
So that so he's like, okay, i'll give you for
the next season Boy Means World. We were in hiatus.
He's like, I'll give you an outside of writing assignment.
I mean, that was like everything to me. I couldn't
believe it. It was so much. It was like it was
life changing, that opportunity for me. At the time, I
was sitting in this bullpen area. You guys remember that
all the deaths were up there, and we kind of

(15:52):
are all talking and they were trying to staff Boy
Meets World for the next season where they had a
couple of spots and another show, another pilot that he
had that had gotten picked up the series. And they're like,
I'm in this bullpen areo and exact. You know, He's
walking back and forth with all these people and they're
talking whatever, and he I keep hearing they said all

(16:12):
we need we just need a low level woman.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
And I was like, yeah, again, is that's going to
be the name of your memoir.

Speaker 8 (16:23):
Yeah, it's kind of great.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
It's like a picture like, yeah, I'm a low level woman.
So I went, I was like, what do I have again?
Fearless that age, you have to try, you try. I
went into his office and I was like, hey, are
you hearing all this conversation about low level woman? Said
what about me? And he goes, okay, knows it.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
So this is this is at the end of season four,
before season five.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
This is like during they had just gotten a pilot
picked up, so that would have been in May, you know,
and they're staffing in June, you know, you staff for
the start in June for the so it's in that area.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
There's the other pilot, Zoe duncan track.

Speaker 8 (17:09):
That was maybe this time, wasn't No, you have more
gap guesses, Zoe you wish?

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, the Genie one you got.

Speaker 7 (17:22):
You got you guys, But wait a second, you were
you were on the set for the whole time though
for the first four seasons, weren't you?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
I was, well, so I went not the beginning, not
the first season. I think I might have come in.
I was did like maybe ten months. So so I
was Michael's second assistant and then I was Susan Jansen's assistant.
I forgot that part okay almost, It's interesting and with
her for like maybe you're you know, it was like
when we were shooting. I remember were shooting at K

(17:51):
T l A obviously you know, like over there. Yeah,
so I was probably there maybe third and fourth.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Ye, third and fourth, Okay, so you were you were
for third and fourth and then staffed on season five?

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yes, And again had no idea what I was doing,
like other than being like an avid TV watcher and
obviously knowing the show very well. I was like, oh
my god, what am I doing?

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Did you watch the show outside of having seen it
when you were visiting on set.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
I had seen it when it first came on when
in its first season. This is when I was like,
I don't even know if i'd moved out here yet.
I mean, I went to school in Staniago. Then came
up and I had seen episodes of it.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, that's a cute show.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
And so I knew of it, and I didn't know
his whole you know, you know, all the shows that
Michael had done. I didn't know all that until I
got there and realized it was all this stuff. And
how you know, he had such a young start and
you know, he was really prolific, and that was the
time when they would have, you know, these giant overall
deals for these guys, more shows, more shows, and and

(18:59):
it was it was a really good So then back
to your question, you know about like getting in there
and learning and learning everything I know from Weman's world.
I'm and because I went back and I looked at
I watched a couple of episodes just in prep for this,
and I was like, you know, it really teaches you
the basics. Not to be saying that it's a basic show,

(19:20):
but it teaches you the basics. It teaches you you
learned structure, setting things up, paying things up, you know,
the acts, how to you know, the emotional part, the
funny part, how to come up. It really kind of
is gives you your one oh one class in TV writing.
And I didn't even think about that until I just
rewatched them. I was like, oh, yeah, this is basic structure,

(19:43):
basic in a good way, you know. And it was
something that, uh, it was also great because I was there,
so I was a writer for the last three seasons.
But I had this sort of gift of having jobs
secure because I knew he would never fire me because
he wanted me to succeed. I knew him so well,

(20:06):
hit all the keys to his house, but you know,
like he wanted he It was I think people don't
always get that chance anymore to sort of settle in,
sit back, observe, learn, participate when you know you can
successfully when you know you should. When it's as opposed

(20:28):
to the pressure I see now, which is just like
everyone's got to be an a plus plus from the
day they start, and you don't know anything when on
the day you start. So I completely like, I appreciate
that time so much. I think of it because the
show really did give me everything. It gave me three
years on a show, which was a huge thing to have.

(20:48):
It let me go out and be, you know, go
on something else, get offers, be you know, just sort
of protected for three years so I could get to
be a good actually you know writer. Yeah, it was
everything that it was great, and I'm that is really
really an important part of the process that I feel

(21:10):
doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Before we get to.

Speaker 7 (21:12):
Because you're speaking my language with kind of loving TV
and being raised on TV. I'm just curious what your
shows were that you loved so much that really brought
you into the TV world when you were growing up.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well, that would be Thursday night on NBC primarily, that
would be the Cosby Show.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Show Family Ties and Cheers. Yeah, okay, kind of that night.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
It was that, And I really would I mean I
was an indoor kid, let's say, so I would always lash,
you know, like whatever I was, the TV was there
and I would watch everything. And I would also watch
like my mom you know, was great about sort of
even though I was in the middle of the Midwest,
like the broadening sort of my entertainment whatever horizons, and

(21:58):
so I'd watch a lot of movie and there was
just so much to fit into it. But it really
was I would say Cheers was probably the one that
really really made it. I mean, I love that show
so much, hand Family Ties, those were really spoke to me. H, Yeah,
I loved I loved Also, if I remember Moonlighting, loving
and just like kind of loving just the dialogue falling

(22:22):
in love, which sort of the idea of like dialogue
and all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, well, we had talked about the fact that the
first couple of seasons or few seasons of Boy Meets
World were not necessarily known for its feminine touch, and
then we noticed, like around season five, there seemed to
be a nice uptick in women writers. What was your
experience coming in and did it ever feel like a

(22:46):
boy's club or did you feel very welcome right from
the beginning?

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yes, boys club? Okay. Also yes, yes, welcome because he
wanted me to be there, and I had known these
guys for a couple of years because remember a lot
of these guys had just been you know, they were
the whole time. So I had already brought everyone there
lunch and then all the cougar Oh, I actually we're

(23:12):
going to get it back.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
We're getting it back. We're going to figure out how
to get.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Kid sand it too soon. We all know they had problems. Okay, Yeah,
I uh so I felt like I was very welcome there,
and I didn't really feel the you know, the wait,
we're considering you to be an assistant sort of thing,
we're considering this person, you're coming in here. I kind
of just felt welcome and that again it comes from

(23:35):
Michael welcoming me in there. I didn't boys club. I
didn't know it was a boys club. It was just
a bunch of men and they were kind of you know,
I had a lot of them have known each other forever,
and it was the camaraderie there. But they all had wives,
and they all had kids, and you know, they all

(23:56):
had women in their lives that I feel, you know,
we would hear about and positive stuff. So it wasn't
like some of the rooms that are very difficult for women,
which but it wasn't one of those because I feel like,
I don't know, I guess this isn't necessarily the case
with all but I was just going to say the

(24:17):
show and the content of the show, it was such
a warm y though. It wasn't like we were doing,
you know, such negative stuff or whatever.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
It wasn't cynical, right, and.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Michael and they knew I was Michael. I was Michael's person,
and they all liked me. I liked all them. I mean,
it's like menel it's in there and all those guys,
so you know, yeah, group and the other women. I
feel like there was a team that came in and
then after that, and another woman a couple, and that
I think it was all positive in that area, to
their credit, because it was a time when it wasn't
really always like that. But before I had gotten in

(24:52):
that room, you know, I'm on shows now and you
welcome the writers distance in the room and you're kind
of just everybody can kind of come in and sit
and listen. It was a very very closed door room.
So I never even sat in the writer's room before
I became a writer. Never wow, which is so different
from now. I feel like when they really it was

(25:13):
it was doors closed, don't go in. So who knows
what happened before I got there, But while I was there,
it was never something. And I also can hang with
the guys anyways, I'm not, you know, And it was
a different time when you were sort of expected to yes,
and you're expected to and you're you're kind of tuned
differently where you're not like it is now. And I'm

(25:35):
sure some of the things that did go on. If
I were to plot myself in that room right now,
I'd be like, whoa, oh my god, You're.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Like you'd yeah, you'd you'd hear it differently now than
you heard it.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Then absolutely and you and you would also, you know,
you were I was supposed to tolerate it, like you're saying,
you're supposed to like sort of hang with it, and
I and that was And I was also so junior,
So a lot of factors may have affected my perspective
at the time that I wonder how I feel now.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
But you'll be happy to hear. I'm sure that your episode,
Raging Corey is quite possibly writer's number one favorite episode
of the series thus far.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Me too, And it's in the arguments.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
It's in at least the top two. It's top two
for me. We absolutely love it. We are obsessed with it.
It is a perfect episode of television.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yo.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
All right, well, and I guess we're done.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm creating for us.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
I had no idea, Yeah, massive, massive fans. We to
recap for anyone who doesn't remember. It focuses on Allan
as a father and his strained relationships with Corey and Eric.
Where did the origin of the idea come from? For you?

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, I think that the top So it was everybody
you know and you talked about this, I'm sure a bunch,
But like everybody's ideas, kind of go into one pot
and then every the room, so it wasn't all solely mine.
Of course I contributed over about the first draft, but
what you see on TV often is very different. And
I'm not sure if we had the story broken like
that when I wrote it. But I remember in the

(27:19):
initial conception it was boxing. That's why. So they didn't
change the title, you know, So that's why, And it
was that, and for some reason it got changed, probably
because that's extraordinarily difficult and it didn't quite work. We
didn't quite need it, and so I can't remember the

(27:39):
original structure. I could find my old draft, I'm sure
that would.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Be so we would love to read it.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yes, I had to look really far somewhere over here
because I'm like, oh, the file cabins over there, like
almost me to go over to it. And so I
think what I I the episode that I what I
love about the episode is that it feels over in

(28:04):
a weird way and then it keeps going into the
part of it, which was something that I'm so proud
of having that in an episode with my perfect Yeah. Yeah,
and the perfection is all due to the writers as
a group and Michael and everybody I just got lucky
enough to have my name on it.

Speaker 5 (28:22):
But it's just a perfect sitcom in that it's like
everything is character based, it's every you know, everybody feels motivated,
and then just like you said, spins the story into
a new chapter. So it's like Alan has this experience
with Corey, and Corey goes to talk to Sean, and
Sean has experience with his brother.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
It's like it's all just keeps.

Speaker 5 (28:39):
Spinning, and it's like it's you know, it's one of
these things where no one's lives are really changed by
it's per ec sitcom.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
It's like and yet we've seen them all.

Speaker 5 (28:47):
Illustrate who they are, try and change, come back to
who they really fundamentally are they it also but it.

Speaker 7 (28:53):
Also goes with something we were talking about, which is
it became a joke on the podcast because as we
were watching, especially the first season, in a little bit
in the second season, it wasn't until like episode three
or four of the second season that Alan realized he
had two sons.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
So there there's that that That episode also.

Speaker 7 (29:10):
Worked great because it leant into oh, that's right, I've
got two kids. That and you know, that's what Amy says,
she's like she literally says, along the way you had
two kids are two boys and a girl like and
and so we love that it leaned into the fact
that we were like, hey, I wonder when they're going
to realize that Eric's their kid too, and then boom,
it was part of Yeah, and then you're.

Speaker 5 (29:30):
The great set piece of the skydiving. I mean, it's
like it's a it's a it seems like a big
set piece, but it's actually just a very simple scene
and these guys just get to yell at each other
and it's so funny.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
And there's a beautiful tag with Morgan at the end
where even earlier in.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
The episode you see a little Morgan. I'm like, she's
coming back, huh.

Speaker 8 (29:52):
So good.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
And the girls with you know, like the daughters and
the sons, and I love that that that piece in
the plane. It's so funny because it's so it's so
long to be yelling this.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Entire but it gets funnier.

Speaker 5 (30:10):
It's one of those things it's like the more you
lead into it, then it does.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
It does, and it's able, which which is great because
it's like that thing where you're like, they can't still be.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
You still young, You're getting more emotional, right, it's getting
more personal as good.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
And it's it's and it was funny and different and
it was different from the show. It just felt like
it was the show in uh creative like you're saying,
like things like spinning, they don't really end up they
end up having learn and grown, but it's not a
significant Oh now we're going to go in this direction.
I'm now I'm going to school and you know, it's

(30:48):
it was a fun emotional parenting, you know, parent sun
story and super relatable.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
And it brought Alan back into the show, which you know,
at the point sort of getting you know, compared to
the first season, they were already starting to fade away.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
But it's just so interesting because I feel like.

Speaker 5 (31:06):
You know, so often we tend to look back and
be like the serialized episodes of Boys One, the ones
that like created this relationship or broke up this relationship,
And here's one that was just like no, it was
like it was a great maintenance episode of boy Meets
World and just so yeah, one of the funniest.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
So, oh, thank you guys, that's a nice Again, I
can't take credit everybody's credit of course, but I am
lucky enough to have I mean, that is exciting and
it was so exciting for me. And like I said,
it started off and into a really different place. Yeah,
and it ends up like that and that's the process
and and you never know what's going to end up
on television.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
I mean it was then next is Eric tell us
about that? What was going on? It's so good?

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Oh my god, that one that is just so That
one's so crazy and so funny. I mean, I'm I
was laughing out loud on that one with you know,
it was Will Will, You had me laughing. It was
later do you feel Will did they let you?

Speaker 7 (32:06):
Like?

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Was were you like unleashed on those scenes? Because I
feel like like I feel like you were so dependably
rock solid, funny and creative, interesting fun ways and then
like Corey could still go back and be like, oh
this is like a real guy. But in that one,
all of that, I was like this, it was like crazy,

(32:28):
it was crazy.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
We had it was fun.

Speaker 7 (32:30):
It was just fun all the way around. And it
was it was I don't know, unleashed. I mean it
was like when you get the material and the materials
there and you get you're given the chance to play,
then great things can happen.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
And it was just so much.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Fun and maybe the best will has ever been all
the different moments he was able to hit. It was,
writer had commented when we watched it, the journey he
takes the viewer on even just in one scene, You're like,
this guy can reel you in with anything he.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
Does, all the different styles of acting, and yeah, and
setting the tone for from beat to beat he's setting
it's just incredible.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
So true and and big laughs and always you know,
something different, and and then it's sort of like meta meta,
and it was it's so it's such it's a weird one,
but so incredibly fun.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
And that Do you remember the conversations, the creative conversations
that led to it.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Probably not, not really.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Do you do you remember?

Speaker 7 (33:30):
One of the things that writer seems to remember is
that originally other actors were cast to play the characters.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
They weren't going to play them.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
That's right, Yeah, I know. And when I was I
was watching it too, I watched it on again, just
like prep for this. I was like, it is a
huge swing. So that so then there must have been
something that was another direction first that didn't quite work,
and they were like, let's just do this and try it.
But it was such a big, broad, fun episode that

(34:01):
it was kind of all bets are off.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Where did the idea come from to poke fun at
the writer's room with the young kids as the writer's room?

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Probably that's probably Michael. I mean, I mean that table
was Michael's family. Yes, yes, I have Yeah, so funny,
I think probably, I know that was I like that,
that's funny. I mean it did. It gets so it
was such a weird meta. But by the way, that
is also the luxury of twenty two episodes.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yes, yeah, do that.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
They're not all so precious, not that that one's you know,
that one is a great one, But you wouldn't really
do that one. If you're like, oh, we have thirteen,
we have to advance this. You're just like this, let's
let's have a fun episode.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah right, I mean we were doing twenty four, so
you know, it's like, you really, how do you.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Do twenty four and not end up in World War two?
Come on? You know, come on, I mean, seriously.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
I'm traveling, cat, Let's do something.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
You got to do something because you got to get
to that finish line. But that's part of the fun
because those episodes that are a little more out there,
you know, you know, taking a shot at something or
something that's a little more absurd or what somebody is
some just somebody has an itch they want to scratch
in the writing room, when you indulge it, like, that's
so fun. That's the freedom of having all those episodes too.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Did you have a character you particularly liked writing for?
Both Raging Corey and Eric Hollywood have some pretty good
Eric stuff. Did you have a character you liked writing
for more than others?

Speaker 2 (35:47):
And why was it?

Speaker 7 (35:48):
Me?

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Okay, well, well you go. I loved writing. I love
jokes like I love That's why I love the show.
I love hard jokes. I love not like obvious hackey jokes.
I love smart I love things creative jokes. And so
I loved writing for all you guys. I loved seeing

(36:14):
what you did with what was written. I can tell
you that that was really really fun for me seeing,
like I said, well, you know, just doing something. I
was watching another one last what was the one I
was watching my episodes? It was from the season later.
It was when Feenie was in college, and like that's
when his wife was, you know, his real and you

(36:35):
did something where you're like in a space about something
and it's just that was kind of not really written
like that, but then you do with it and like
all of you guys did and giving like such good performances.
I feel like people don't realize that it's so hard
to find awesome kid actors who then can get even

(36:59):
better like young adult actors. And that's what was so great.
A lot of shows you write and you're like, okay, well,
let's just kind of limit this person because by season whatever,
you're like, this isn't this great as we thought it
would be, but we're stuck whatever it is. It's like,
oh no, no, everyone everyone is a home run hitter
in this show, like it was you. That's what I

(37:19):
loved about writing for you guys. You didn't worry like, okay, well,
she's never gonna be able to get this joke right right,
like your timing Danielle. It's like it was so good
and your jokes and your ability to like tolerate like
madness around me with like whenever Corey's being silly or
just too juvenile or whatever is and still be like
your character maintain person and keep us buying that relationship

(37:42):
was so is so hard. I don't know how people
People may not really realize, like that's so hard to
play all that and and the believability and in a
comedy and still hit hard jokes very rare. Writer your next.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
You don't have to know that.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
And writer, I think people would probably think of like
all like the emotional stuff for you, Like what a
dramatic life that kid had, you know, to play all
that and to be so young and play it with
a light touch. And it was again, I don't think
people realize the quality of the acting is better than

(38:19):
many adults. Luck. It was just magic and fat. It
was really really and that was what my fun was
that you didn't have to write so that a character
could handle it. You could write to see the character
ascend to it or put their spin on it, and
you knew it would be better. That was what was fun.

Speaker 7 (38:37):
How did you so we would often see because obviously
one of the things we've talked about a whole bunch
of times is how we were separated from the writer's room.
We didn't really get to see what was going on.
And I think that was done on purpose. It was
kind of we were shielded from a lot of things,
which was a good thing in the long run. But
there was a lot of times we would do run
throughs and then there'd be a massive rewrite, and I'm curious,

(39:00):
how did you determine if it faults not the right word,
but if it was us or the material, because there
had to be a time where the writing was there.
You knew the writing was there, and we just didn't
hit it a run through. I mean, how do you
determine whether no, the materials there, they just had an
off day as opposed to okay, they gave it their all,

(39:20):
and it's the material. Where do you pick that up?

Speaker 3 (39:22):
I would say that it's most it's almost always the material.
It's something that you try that you finally get to hear,
you know, like it's on its feet, as they say,
you know, you hear it, and it's like, oh no,
that's not that's not what we want, or it's not
funny enough. It was really not. Because anything that was

(39:43):
performance related could be there were notes for that. You
guys want little notes or try to play it this way,
or different takes where you could try different things or whatever.
But if it's usually those notes were about the story,
the story. You know, Michael had a interesting way about
taking notes at these run throughs. Have you guys talked
about this in my covering this stuff you guys talked

(40:05):
about it was he would then, so you have all
the executives out there, and did you guys ever hear
the notes after the runthroughs or anything? Were you guys
were gone? Yeah? So did he do the same thing
where he would he just tell them what he's fixing
before they'd give him any Yeah, which was an interesting thing.

(40:26):
It was almost like if you do wait for those notes,
you know, if you do hear those notes, usually they're
about probably the things that he was fixing. Anyways, this
needs a better ending. This felt too long. This isn't working.
You know, we don't feel the emotion. We haven't set
up something that we're trying to pay off at the end,
or the payoff doesn't fit the setup, those kind of things.

(40:46):
It's like just tidying up what it is. When it's
a big rewrite, it's story's not working, or Michael wants
to just get in there and rip it up. He
has another idea he wants to do, but more often
than not, I would say it was just you know,
it's story stuff, but also like emotional stuff because, like

(41:10):
I said, if that's why it was so great, you
guys are so great because if you guys aren't hitting
it it usually it wasn't because of you guys, unless
you guys were you know, there's always the question of sometimes.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
They do they not understand themselves or do they not
believe it and so it's a play, or maybe they didn't.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Love that one because they it sounds and you guys
can signal to us to sort of, you know, we
don't like this by kind of that kind of stuff.
Which is which is you know, is something in your
toolbox that you guys can use to sort of be
like this doesn't work, but you know any notes? Did
you guys give notes? Did you ever were you able
to give notes like hey, I feel like no, no.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
No, so interesting listening to what you were saying, because
I feel like that was kind of our only tool
was to like sort of either take performance or like yeah,
because I never I mean, in some cases I felt comfortable,
but no, like there was creatively, I did not feel
like I had the right to say I think Sean
should be this or I think maybe the scene would
be better that way.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
No, No, you know it.

Speaker 5 (42:14):
Was, which I think if as an adult actor, I
would feel that is the point, you.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Know, it's like, oh, this scene's not working for me.
Here's why.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Let me give you my input, let me give you
my perspective. Back then, I never felt comfortable saying that.

Speaker 7 (42:26):
Well, we talked about that, We learned about that on
you know, on mash they would have their table read
and then the producers would open it up to the actors.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Okay, what do you think? What do you what do you?
How do your would your character do this?

Speaker 7 (42:36):
And looking back, as you know, an adult, the idea
of having that kind of freedom as an actor would
be amazing, right.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Because you don't do it now Monday morning Quarterback. But
you also don't offer that to twelve years old.

Speaker 5 (42:47):
We're talking now season five, we're eighteen, nineteen years old,
and we've been doing this.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
We're pros now, we should we should have probably felt comfortable,
you know, but at that point I was like, I'm
in college, I'm I'm gonna happa. Definitely yeah, and it's.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
You should have been invited to do that, you know, like,
and it certainly earned at that point. You know, it
wasn't like you guys, you know so that yeah, so
so we could tell, you know, when something is getting
tanged you don't like it, and it's it's so interesting
because some of the stuff you just don't like. Because
some of the stuff I didn't like, sometimes do it
and sometimes you have a voice to change it. Sometimes

(43:20):
it'll change or not. But you know, and I'm so
low on the totem pole and again just kind of
sitting back and learning, learning what's going on. Okay, this
is what we felt. I felt this too in this
scene and when we're watching this run through in all this,
but I wish you guys had been able to so
I'm sure, I mean as adults, it must be so
weird looking back, like hmm, I should have said I

(43:41):
didn't like that part when I was uncomfortable playing it
and it was on TV or stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, right, speaking of things people either like or do
not like. We just finished season five and we saw
Tapega propose to Corey and decide against Yale. Do you
remember any of the conversations around that. Were you a
fan of the decision? What did you think about the
proposal storyline?

Speaker 3 (44:04):
I mean it's tough because now I mean this is
like these are kids, these are you know, these things.
It was always it was hard, But you have to
get yourself into the world of the show. I'll say that.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, we've talked about that doing this podcast. But there
are just certain things about the world of the show
you have to buy into to enjoy the show.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Absolutely, you have to be in this. You have to
be in this story, which is ultimately this you know,
love story. You know, these two destined to.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Be together, faded together.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yes, they have to be together. I mean, I was
auto another episode of mine. It was something where everyone's
so invested, you know, them being together. It's just such
a it was such the you know, it was the
thing that moved the show everywhere. It was that was it,
that was the engine. Once you know, that started to

(44:59):
be something and they were in love and they were
a couple of them okay, and it there was so
there really wasn't a way to choose anything else.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
There really was.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
It was never going to be anything else. It was
always going to be the two of them together. They
were never going to do that. And so they're kind
of false stakes because the audience in many ways knows
she's not going to choose that, choose that too. Yeah,
but it it was you know, I wouldn't recommend that
to my daughters. No, we've talked about that and and
then either you know, like I would never have thought

(45:31):
that's It's very I was coming from the Midwest where
most people did that, and I was I chose not to.
So that was my opinion, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I mean, we to be honest, we had been. We've
been a little surprised about the way Topanga was written
this season, especially because, as I mentioned, going into season five,
there hadn't been a ton of women writers, and now
in season five there were, and yet Topanga was was
kind of written as a bit of a one dimensional
kind of I mean, in my opinion, I'm very bored

(46:03):
by her in season five. I'm like, even the storyline
of the Yale situation, it's like the way the Yale's
even brought up, the way she talks about it, we
don't even know why she's interested in Yale. She mentions
it the only reason she even thought about it is
because her and her and Corey were broken up. And
then she has this this wonder I'm waiting for a
moment where she has a scene with mister Feenie and

(46:23):
then he doesn't really give her any He just like says,
if there was any good reason not to go to Yale,
then otherwise you should go. And I don't know, it's interesting.
I was wondering if there was any sort of conversation
around the way Topanga was represented or written for what
was there any sort of dialogue about that other than

(46:45):
in relation to what Corey is destined to have for
his life.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Right, I would say yes, but not, uh, not a
lot and it and it wasn't you know, like this.
We can get back to the sort of the mail
room and Michael and the way it was and it
was really his voice, his everything and the folk. I
don't know how he would reflect now back, but I

(47:14):
don't think at the time there he thought it wasn't
a full, like fleshed out character like it kind of
It's it is silly because it should have been exactly
all these things we're saying, like what and it would
be now. I can't imagine it wouldn't be like that now, But.

Speaker 5 (47:34):
Yeah, I think, you know, I was thinking back to
season four where you have the Topanga care cutting episode,
you have Topanga moving away to Pittsburgh and her making
the decision to come back. She was more of an
active sort of side of that equation. And for whatever reason,
the fifth season was so much more focused on Corey,
you know, Laura and Corey making you know, and and

(47:54):
it just it feels like, but you know, I don't
remember him.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
I don't remember the conversation. But you're right, because it's
anything even in those little scenes that you can talk about
with mister Feenie, like that could have been something that
at least, you know, gave her more character, you know,
true to like a character and world around in character.
I don't remember that. I do know that. I'm trying
to think. I was in there. Two other women were
in there. We were all staff writers, so we're all young,

(48:19):
h uh huh. Yeah, and Patty.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Carr Patty Carr, yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
And then another woman was a little bit uh.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
And Susan Jansen was there, right, she wasn't no, she had.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Left, she was gone. And then Erica Montalvo didn't come.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
She came also a staff writer, you know, and we
were all independent women. Oh yeah, and uh Ellen Eilson
was there, that's right. Yeah, and uh and and then
another woman. I'm swim blanking her name. This is terrible.
So we we were all junior, yeah, and those guys

(48:57):
were just kind of the old right, like the old
card like they were just there there. So it wasn't
I'm sure we brought it up. I mean we had to.
There was four of us that probably looking at each
other like right, really.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I mean, and I to be fair, the show is
called boy Meets World. It is a it is boy POV.
I'm not saying that the show needed change to be about,
but you know, it seems as though we've been really
pleasantly surprised on how many different boy povs there are.
We thought, oh, going into this, every episode's going to
be a Cory episode, and there's a few that are

(49:29):
given to Sean and a few that are given to Eric,
and then we've been like, oh my gosh, almost exclusively
seasons would revolve entirely around Seawan's family, and then there's
lots of great Eric storylines, and then the Tapanga storylines,
especially in season five, just seemed to really revolve around
a decision to Panga may or may not make, and
how that decision is ultimately going to affect Cory and

(49:51):
what Cory wants and so yeah, I kind of just
wondered if there was any if you remember any of
those discussions. But everything you're saying makes sense.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, did you I feel like at the time this
or now this?

Speaker 1 (50:04):
I don't remember feeling it at the time. I remember
I remember at the time thinking that it was I
didn't really think of Tapanga outside of being Corey's girlfriend,
and I didn't necessarily have a problem with it, I
think because the memories of Tapanga being such a wonderful, quirky,
unique character in the first season were still so fresh

(50:26):
in my mind, and like writer had mentioned where he
was like, oh, I'm going to college and whatever. I also,
at this point felt pretty comfortable in my job. I
still enjoyed my job, but I was so focused on,
like my personal life outside of the show that I
don't think I gave a ton of thought to being like,
what is going on for this thing I'm doing, this

(50:46):
work that I'm doing. It was just the job I
went to and I was happy to have the job.
But boy, I couldn't wait to get back to the
high school football games and my high school boyfriend and
all of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, So you end up saying on the show through
ceas and seven, what would you say you if you
had like, I mean, you mentioned the basics that you
really learned the basics on Boy Meets World, But after
three full seasons there, what would you say you really
learned as a writer on Boy Meets World?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Well, I would say I learned that it's a lot
of work, and I learned that h that I really
loved it, Like I loved the job. Like you know,
you're like, do I want to do this? And I
loved it. I loved it. I and I after I
was done, you know, that was like the So the

(51:38):
contracts for writers are three seasons long. This happened to
be the last three seasons of the show. So there
was no option, like in my company to know what
was going on. And it was right when you know,
it was a lot of single cams were starting. That
was when the single cams were coming out, and it
was that was the cool thing to be on. So
I was a young writer who was going to go
get my next credit, and it was like you it

(52:00):
was seen as like kind of not a hot I
guess a hot credit to come off even the good
part was that it was just such a long, consistent
job that you know, I can stay at and it
was whatever. But it wasn't seen as like, oh, who's
as hot you're coming off this, So there was that
conversation with agents like, well, how do you know we're
making you like more like an edgy or whatever. But

(52:26):
I would never trade it. I would never trade something
in the like the tone of this show as my
first job for anything, because I guess I'm going back
to the same thing it was. You know, I learned
about character. I didn't know anything and other than being
a TV fan, and I learned, you know, not to

(52:47):
be offended when everything that you wrote changes. Yes, like
skin I guess came some of that, and also just
to be like it's different now a little bit. But
the hours are terrible. You work a lot, you're you're
you're kind of a victim of the showrunner's process, and

(53:12):
it was it was a wild process at different times,
and there were a lot of hours times when you
would just be like, what are we doing? You're just
everyone's just messing around, not accomplishing everything.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
That was throwing tiktoks at each other.

Speaker 5 (53:26):
What's that throwing throwing tik taks at each other. I
just remember Michael and who was a man. Now they
would just always be throwing tictack.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Now they usually be picked.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, Mark Blutman and Michael Jacobs throwing tic TACs at Manela.

Speaker 5 (53:40):
Did you did you ever even have to write another
spec then or did you just go right.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
To I did because they wanted me to write something
a camera. Oh I did. I read something anti and
to compliment this, but I think I wouldn't have. It
made me be able to go to these other edge
of your shows where the story is a little bit
looser or it is kind of like more convoluted, and
still always know like it again, it was just such

(54:06):
a good foundation, and it was such a good and
I learned a lesson also in just like I was
given a chance, you know, and it's a lesson in that,
and to support people who you know, who want to
do this. A lot of people reach out about it,
and it's just a lesson in just like, you know,

(54:27):
being kind of giving people a chance, giving them a
chance to Like, I probably wasn't great at the beginning.
I'm sure I wasn't, and they stuck with me. All that.
I mean those and just to be I would say,
also just to be happy to be there. Yeah, you
can get pretty bad and pretty grueling on any show.
I'm not talking specifically when means world, and you are

(54:50):
happy to be there and tolerant of as crazy as
it gets. And that's it because it's it's hard to do.

Speaker 7 (54:59):
Yeah, So what do you I'm just curious, what do
you think the recipe is for a show that lasts
the test of time, it sustains Because you've seen so
many different versions of shows. You've seen single camera, you've
seen multi camera. What do you think it takes to
have a show that people are still talking about thirty
years later?

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Character mhmm. Character story is born from character things that
are real emotions that you're tapping into something real, something relatable,
making it relatable if anybody can see themselves in a
character or you know, I'm sure for so many kids
is a wish fulfillment show. Yeah, look at kids who

(55:39):
care about each other and those things I think are
super important. It has to be some you have to
be able to connect with it on some level, and
it can be anything. I can see myself in this character.
This is my this happened to.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
Me or.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
You know this, I really relate to the tone of
this show. This is a crazy workpl that's my workplace.
Anything like that. You just have to be able to
see yourself in something, you know, uh, the connection, and
then I just really like And the other thing I
would say is specificity. Specificity of character, I think is
what makes a show really good, like Seinfeld and some

(56:16):
of that, which was so different at the time, which
I another one of my huge obviously, that's one of
my absolute phaves, you know, and it's so different, but
those characters are so specific and so funny, and I
love hard funny.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
So with your career, I like to think that maybe
we were the Staten Island stop on your long ride
to Times Square. You'd stop at Evan Stevens and Jason

(56:51):
Alexander Seinfeld, follow up Bob Patterson, and then you would
find yourself on a little show called Arrested Development, where
you wrote even episodes and one an emmy.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
So I know, are they filled with chocolate? Are they
filled with chocolate in your life? Because they look like chocolate.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
It's over there.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Do you want to get it? Do you want to
get it?

Speaker 7 (57:13):
Go?

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Get it? I start over there, you can tell me
it's there.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
It's right there. I'm looking at it, right.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
You had to look at it to make sure it
wasn't filled with chocolate.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
It's by the window, and I would know it would
be it'd be melted.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Okay, good point.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
I'm a little disappointed. I'm a little disappointed.

Speaker 7 (57:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
So yeah, that was Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Did you know that show was special from day one?

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Absolutely absolutely, because back in the day, when you were
getting a job, you would be able to view the
pilot and so I was like, what.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (57:52):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (57:54):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (57:55):
And it was just so different and so laugh out
all the funny and just you know, and I've been
coming off of like those shows that you mentioned were
largely you know, they did funny things, and they were
great and I love them all, and they were you know,
but they were network shows. This show, if you were

(58:16):
thinking of it now, would not be considered a network show.
A rest right, And you know, I remember pitching stuff
even like The Boyman's World Room. I wish I could
remember what it was, but I remember something and it
was like that was too weird or something like tangential
or too weird and this room, the rest of room.
Every tangent was indulged. There was nothing too weird. There

(58:40):
was nothing, and so you really felt a freedom of
creativity there where you and there was always a character.
There's always something where these things would fit in. Or
you could build it. I mean you could build things
around the craziest stuff. I mean, if you guys have
seen it, it's like I was only there for the
first two seasons because it was really crazy. It was

(59:01):
a lot. That was a lot of hours. I had
just gotten married, I want to have kids, and I
was We're there like seven days a week, and I
was like, I need to switch, I need some time.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Do you have a favorite episode or a favorite storyline
you wrote?

Speaker 3 (59:13):
Oh my gosh, oh no, no, it's hard. It's a
big jumble. Everybody did everything my episode. My episode I love,
I mean, everyone loves Never Nude. I love the cutoff, Tobuias,
I love all those characters were so fun to write for.

(59:37):
That was what was so good. I don't I mean
specific stuff. I liked it when it was to Buas
in one of my episodes, I think he took a
photo of himself in the tub and it was the
the they thought it was this, what was it something
that Sadam was saying, like in Iraq or something like that.

(59:59):
They thought something like that, some weird thing about a phototape.
I thought that was really funny. That was funny to do.
All of it was funny him. It was. It was
all so funny and so crazy that I can't even
bring myself to watch the third season or any of
the Netflix seasons because I'm like, I don't want to
see what I missed out on. I don't want I
really love that show. It was really hard, really really

(01:00:22):
fun creatively for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah, is there one you preferred? Do you prefer multicam
or single cam?

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
I think I would. I vastly back and forth, so
I would be multiicam multicamp. And remember everything I grew
up on was multicam, so I always have except for
you know, like the Seinfeld, but I always have that
love for multicam. But there was like the period of
time creatively where you know, everything was going single camp,
so it was like I like that. I like that.
I like that, But I still love the multicam because

(01:00:51):
there's I like the there's something about having it like
on a proscenium you know, you're just sitting there watching
this thing unfold the live audience like that stuff is fun.
The hours were generally better, but then the single cams
I love because you can do more things, go more places,
get out more. I worked at How I Met Your Mother,

(01:01:12):
which was a hybrid, and that's kind of ye, that's
kind of a nice combo where I feel like, well,
we want to go out and shoot this thing outside. Great,
But also you had these standing sets that you knew. Yeah, yes,
for How I Met Your Mother.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
You were there for the last two seasons, and it's
never easy landing a perfectly flown plane. What was crafting
the finale? Like, did you feel a lot of pressure?

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Well, what was interesting was that season, that ninth season,
it was potentially ending after season eight, and so it
kind of this ninth season was born from not ending
in season eight. So that's when you got we were
actually meeting the mother, right, Because I originally it was
not supposed to be that. The guys who wrote it,

(01:01:57):
Bays and Times were great. The had the idea for
the end at the very beginning, so they had already
shot at the very beginning. They had shot the kids young,
you know, saying the ending. They had it all, it
was all in their brain. They eventually got to that place,
but it was with this little stop in between of
twenty two for whatever episode, Oh right, now we have

(01:02:19):
like the Mother, So it was kind of like a
and I think they were almost going to do maybe
they were going to do a season ten almost it was.
It was unclear at that time, so it was really
born from having on this bonus episode at the end,
but we all knew that it was going to end
the way they wanted it, and it was really interesting
in that time seeing that finale, we kind of all

(01:02:39):
just sat back and been like, they kind of are
doing their thing, because I think it was like sort
of a whole emotional thing for these guys too. I
mean it was their whole courseties.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Yeah, of course. Well your IMDb reads like a murderer's
row of sitcoms. You have never stopped working. My name
is Earl, How I met your mother, Life in Pieces
or any other act as talented as we were. Thank you.
I did just want to just want to get that out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
She's not glancing over to the arrested development em nobody.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
No, I never went on to do anything else.

Speaker 7 (01:03:16):
How I met your mother cast didn't go on to
do anything else, just us, Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
It's pronounced bodymen. Everybody knows that. So yeah, come.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
On, you guys, really and I mean it. And even
watching those episodes like these guys were not oh you
were seasoned by that point, but you and it was.
It was amazing and it's amazing you got you know,
through all of that and are what you are.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
It really was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I really took me watching these episodes again now to
appreciate that that you guys were doing high level stuff,
hard turns, emotional stuff that was hard to play, not
necessarily always always you know, set up one hundred percent
real stretching, and you guys made it all believable somehow,
a little a little sweet music and we had an episode.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
We got Did your stories about working on Boy Meets
World ever come up in these other incredible writer's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Rooms you were a part of, First Jobs come up? Yeah,
a lot of my assistants, the assistant stuff comes up.
But yeah, definitely, And and I do always, you know,
because we have the young writers coming in, and I
always do think about my experience compared to what theirs
is my experience getting there to compare to what theirs

(01:04:30):
is and it's it's so I again, like I said,
I would never probably have gotten the chance like been
you know, like had this career and like yeah, unless
I was given the chance to sort of really really
learn and you learn by doing. And it was it
was great. It was I really have just such positive

(01:04:53):
even with the negative stuff. And there was stuff with
you know, the hours and different things I had to
do or whatever whatever time, so much waste of time.
I'm like a super efficient person even with all that stuff.
It really was a perfect experience for me because it
taught me everything really well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Before we let you go, I want to talk to
you about twenty twenty four because you continue to be
a premier name when it comes to staffing writers and
you just worked on the massive Netflix hit Nobody Wants This,
which was one of the few high points in TV
this year. What was it that drew you to that project?

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
So that project, I was not there at the beginning
they were shooting, So that was a pro that was
started before the strike, even shooting before right and then
it had a big break and then came back and
so they had done the first few it was going well,
and I think there were some issues with Netflix and
the stories and things kind of blew up a little

(01:05:48):
bit as it was portrayed to me. And then I
joined on episode. I was there for the last half,
the last five episodes. That was the first season it had, yes,
and they just wanted some more write support, I know.
I think what happened too is that they had lost
some writers and they were some turnaround. Anyways, that's so
I joined it, and it was really about I had
read the script a long time before, because they would

(01:06:11):
look hed look for a showrunner, like I honestly think
it was maybe at least a year plus that before
that even or maybe I don't know, a long time.
And I loved the script already, so I already knew it.
I'd you know, met some of the people in charge
of that. I already already loved it. And I loved
that it was a rom com. I mean, it was

(01:06:32):
so it seems so roundbreaking up. It was a real
wrong com on TV. But that used that was such
a people forget the rom com a genre is that's
like so pure wrong com. And I liked I could
you know, relate to it? Uh and you know, obviously
it was already stacked with like a great cast, and

(01:06:52):
then when I got there, it was incredibly, incredibly fun.
Now that was an all female room except for one person.
When I got there, it had gone through different iterations.
People had come and go, there were men and more
men previously, you know, things had shifted around, people had
left or other jobs because they had gone on for
so long, and that was all women and that was great.

(01:07:16):
That was so cool for me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
That's amazing.

Speaker 7 (01:07:19):
So another typical Hollywood female writers room. If I have
to hear that story one more time about that, the
stereotypical all women's writers room, come.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
On exactly, that's right, right, writing like questionably degrading things.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
About men, and like right, you got.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
But it was col it was efficient, it was supportive,
it great.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Were you surprised at all by the mainstream response to
like a romantic story about a rabbi.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Yes, but also no, because it was almost the answer
to the hot priest from.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Uh right, yeah, flee back.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
But it was That's what people are saying is that
it's the answer to that. But I was surprised at
the Oh my god, because it's very rare that you're
writing on a show that everybody's seen. Yeah, everybody that show,
and it's very very rare. When they showed the first
episode to us when I had finally gotten finished, you know,

(01:08:21):
right almost when we were done, we watched it and
we were giving thoughts on that kissing scene, that the
one where they am playing it famous because I feel
like people are talking about it. They finally kissed, and
I was like, oh, people are gonna love this. It
was so good. Their chemistry was so good. And that
speaks to again, something you guys also had on your show,
Like there was so much chemistry cast chemistry that obviously

(01:08:43):
was sexual chemistry, but like just chemistry, Like I believe this.
It's really saying I believe this. I' me in the
moment with these these characters and I believe what they're
doing is real and that I saw that, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
people are gonna like this.

Speaker 7 (01:09:00):
Do you think I have I have one more question
I've asked the people in the know in the industry
because of just my love. Do you think sitcom and
multiicam is going to make a comeback at any point?

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
A comeback you mean be dominant?

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Yeah, like it used to be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
I think it is coming back. There are things. There's
a few now, and I do think that it is
going to It's it's cheaper, so I feel like that
will help, and I feel like what's interesting about it,

(01:09:37):
I find is that when people who are coming up
don't know how to do it, it's a different skill
set than a single cam writer. As a writer, it's not.
It's just a different genre almost, And so you know,
and not only as a writer to write the script,
but also like the run through is that's all you know? Yeah,
you do like little obviously in the single cam you know,

(01:09:58):
you're watching it rehearse, but a run through the show
night where you're on the you know, in the moment,
coming up with jokes, jokes, jokes, that's not as prevalent
of a writer's skill set. Right now, many more writers
are doing the sort of the edgy or I would
call it stuff. I think that it will always survive
because I think it's cheaper and I think I think

(01:10:22):
it appeals. I think it's appealing in so many ways
to so many audiences. And if when it comes to
network TV, I mean, you know, I feel like they'll
keep doing it too. I really do do you guys
think so?

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
I think I think so.

Speaker 5 (01:10:39):
I think I think if it's framed correctly, you know,
I think it's sort of like when you ask you
think like you could have been asking this question about
you know, radio radio plays and you can say like,
well they died and as a form, but then you're like,
but podcasts right like they So it comes back but
in a new sort of framed way. And I think
there will always be a place for multicam.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
It's just too you know. And like when you mentioned Cheers,
I was like, right, that was that's still like one
of the.

Speaker 5 (01:11:05):
Perfect ones, brilliant because it made sense of the proscenium right, like,
it made sense of the actual place itself as to
why this this this should only be a multicamer show.
You couldn't do it as a non multigam, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
So I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
I think there's always going to be a way to
find a way in that that makes it make sense.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Yeah, I think so too. And I think, you know,
cracking that, like there has to be a way to
sort of modernize that in a way that people feel
like they're and they do do some of that stuff,
I feel like, and the acting I don't think is
as much like as it. You know, I feel like
you can do more subtle acting than something. If you
watch a lot of old shows, there's not yes, it

(01:11:42):
just feels false. So I think they need to feel real.
I think there has to be a way too, because
some you know, when you're thinking of ideas too, and
as a writer and store in your different series ideas
or whatever, some of them you're like they used you
used to have to when you were writing a script
or pitching something and you wanted to pitch it as
a single cam right when these single cams came out,

(01:12:04):
you know, and it was really popular. So of course
you're pitching signal cams single cam, but you'd have to
think of a reason why it warrants a single cam.
Why does this be single Like, Okay, they're jumping time,
they're doing this, they're doing crazy, ever it is, I
get that. But if it's just takes place at an office,
well that can also be a multicam, Like what is it?

(01:12:24):
Is it the tone that makes you know? What is
it that? And if it's the tone that makes it, say,
is there a way to update the tone of a
multi camp? But does it feel like that. You know
that's the challenge.

Speaker 7 (01:12:35):
Well, how I met your mother kind of did that
with like you're saying with the hybrid might be the
kind of the new the new wave.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
And if you look at something like like Friends is
more popular than ever, I mean as popular, I would say,
but continues popular with new audiences. And so there is
something that still works. And I would say when that shoe,
you know, that's the chemistry they did kind of some
weird stories. They let the character bizarre things as opposed
to sort of being like very straight family or whatever.
It was the typical one. So I do think it

(01:13:02):
can come back.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Final question for you now, looking back nearly thirty years
later on The Boy Meets World, your first job, in
your prolific credits, what would Barbie Adler tell Barbie Feldman?

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Now, Oh wow, I would say prepare for ups and downs,
and that there always will be en up and to
not always be true to what you think if the
prevailing opinion goes another way, or if someone doesn't like

(01:13:42):
your idea, because people can be pretty blunt or you know,
just dismissive or whatever. That that's an opinion that I
learned later, which I would tell my young self. There's
a million ways to go in these stories. Every story
is kind have been told before. There's a million ways
to go. Just because you pitched something that isn't liked

(01:14:06):
or used, don't be afraid to pitch it. And who
cares if they don't use it. It doesn't mean it's
not good. It just means it didn't go. So it's
really I guess it would be confidence based. Don't let
because you don't. You're working with different people from different backgrounds,
and you change your job so often. You have to
get used to those dynamics. So have faith in what
you know is good and funny.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
I love that. Thank you so much for spending your
very precious time with us. It's been so nice reconnecting
with you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Yeah, you guys are great. I appreciate you having me
on here. It's really been sow much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Thank you, wonderful reconnecting with you. Thank you so much, Barbie,
it was great to see you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
Bye you guys, Bye Barbie.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
She's so great man, so cool.

Speaker 7 (01:14:48):
Oh wow, I remember see I knew that she was
there before she was a writer, souse. I remember seeing
her because you're right, we weren't all that different in age.
I know she's likes to say she's a lot older
than me, but she's not. I think we're not all
that different in age. And yeah, she would always be
with Carlos and they'd always be on the said and
and it was rare for me to have people around
my age at that time. So always always loved Barbie

(01:15:12):
and Carlos to too great.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
I know we still we have to interview Carlos, I
don't we.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Have what we do?

Speaker 7 (01:15:16):
We do?

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
We got to bring he wrote an episode in seasons Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Great, so maybe we can do it. We can bring him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
We also keep saying Mitch Bank, we gotta bring Mitch
on as well. That's another one.

Speaker 7 (01:15:26):
That's a big one as well, because he'll be able
to maybe verify the audience. Prisoners, Yeah, and Janna, Jana,
Janna who booked the prisoners.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
What are you talking about? Or he's going to be like, yeah,
there was a couple of times we had you just you.
But even if the prisoners were coming in, they were
coming in on Wednesday, not for tape.

Speaker 7 (01:15:47):
Really, we're going to get into a sumantic debate about
what day the prisoners were there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Well, because then Mitch wouldn't have been doing the warm up.
He would only do the war did.

Speaker 7 (01:15:54):
He not do?

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
Did we have any warm up to Wednesday? Tom Right Wednesday?
I remember, yes, Yes, we started taking over the Wednesday
warr and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Then when did Wednesday go away? Do we only do
that first thing?

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
I mean I don't even remember doing it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
They brought it in third or fourth season and then
kept doing it, but we would only do it every
We wouldn't do it every week because anytime there was
too complicated of a swing set or a scene that,
you know, we wouldn't have a Wednesday audience.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
We would just pretape Wednesday. But we had a Wednesday
audience like season six and seven. As far as I
remember it, really, I don't remember that at all.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
It was a small audience. It wasn't the full crowd.
It was mostly school children. I remembered it early, but
then I didn't remember it later. Wowkme weird?

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
Interesting? Well, thank you all for listening to this episode
of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us
on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us
your emails pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com,
and we've got.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Merch I still think Emmys are filled with chocolate.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
March. Pod Meets Worldshow dot com we love you all,
pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced
and hosted by Danielle Fischl Wilfredell and Ryder Strong Executive producers,
Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production,
Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddi Moore,

(01:17:11):
engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme
song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on
Instagram at Pod Meets World Show or email us at
Podmeets Worldshow at gmail dot com