Bruh Meets World… Meets World (Season 4 Recap)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
So as you know, and I think as a deal
that dear listeners know at this point we all love
to read. It's, you know, kind of a big deal
that it's a big part of all of our lives
in one way, shape or form reading. But we all
tend to read different things, have different loves and mine,
of course, as we all know, if there's not a wizard,

(00:40):
I'm usually out right some sort of magical system is
integral to me jumping into a book, and then it
could be nine thousand pages long. I'm fine as long
as there's some sort of elf wizard or somebody has
some sort of a magical spell. So I found a
new author. Her name is It's it's I hope I'm
pronouncing it's right. It's r F Kwang or it's r

(01:02):
F kwang. I'm not sure which one. It's k u
A nng. Okay, she's The writing is absolutely incredible, And
the story that I'm reading right now is called Babbel,
and it is takes place at Oxford University in the
eighteen hundreds in an alternate kind of timeline where all
of power in the world is dictated by silver Wow,

(01:27):
but the silver gets its power through language.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh, I'm so in So that's what I'm saying. Is
it etymology? Is that the study of language? So what
they have to do.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
And it follows a young Chinese boy who's brought over
from his family dies in China, and he's brought over
because he thinks in Chinese, so he's raised by a
professor at Oxford. I don't want to give too much away,
but because to make a bar of silver work in
a certain way, like an English word has to match

(02:03):
up with a Chinese word to make the bar work.
So let's say the word is like it has to
work up that way to to then light the bar up.
But the problem is words and the history of words
are so different that what you think one word will
mean actually won't, So the bar could just explode or
means something else. So the actual book is about breaking

(02:24):
down words and idioms where they come from, what they mean,
all wrapped into like this magical system. And I'm reading
the whole time just going like this should be called
the Writer, Strong Strong Magic.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's so vocab hole as magic exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
What it is, coupled coupled with the English dynasty at
its peak, and all that entailed for the rest of
the world kind of the uh, you know, imperialism that
was taking place. It's really interesting, but every it sent
me down, you know how you you talked not long
ago about going down kind of the word rabbit hole.
It sent me down, kind of the idiom rabbit hole

(03:01):
of like, where.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Did this come from? Where did this word come from?
You know, how did we get you know, drop of
the hat, mad as a Hatter?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Where did all So there are some I'm not going
to get into all of them, obviously, but read babble.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
It is just made for you.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
But one of the cool ones I heard was does
anybody know where the term cut the red tape comes from? No, So,
after the Civil War, soldiers literally had to stand in
line and go personally to Washington, d c. To get
their benefits, and they would have to wait hours and
hours and hours for them to sort through all the

(03:39):
rolled up pieces of paper to find a specific soldier's
you know, history in the military, and all of those
papers were tied.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
With red tape.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Interesting, so that's where cut the red tape comes from.
Mad as a Hatter?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know that one?

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Now?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Oh so yeah, from the mercury right, that would make
hatters were actually crazy because they were yes, correct, So
that's why I like in Alison Wonderland and it's a
mad Hatter because the hatters were always crazy.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Under under the weather.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
So under the when sailors got sick, they would go
to the front, underneath the forecastle of the boat, under
everything else, so they'd be under the weather when they
were when they were sick.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Folks, I think.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's yeah, I think it's s C A L E.
It's a it's a ship term, yeh. So they go
under the bow.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
And to recommend a podcast to you will have you
heard of no such thing as a fish?

Speaker 4 (04:39):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
You would love this podcast. It's basically it's a British
podcast where these people get together and they just present
strange facts to one another. And but yeah, and the
whole thing is just them, you know, like the one
of them will present like a strange fact. And the
title comes from the idea that like if you actually
think of the definition of a fish, and and like

(05:00):
all fish defy that definition, you know, Like so there's
no such thing technically as a fish. There's some I
don't know that it makes sense.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Because if somebody says it's a fish, sandwich. Well, what
does that mean? What kind of fish are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (05:13):
So the whole idea is like just these people like
throwing out facts and you know a lot of them
are historical or idiomatical, and you love it. It's like
every time I'm listening to doing that, gotta tell Will
about this. But it's like the perfect podcast for me
because it's like kind of important, but also like I
can go to sleep to it so I can put
it on.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I can't get off of what went wrong? I keep
I'm binging what went wrong again?

Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's just so good.

Speaker 5 (05:36):
I Yeah, as you know, I got back from New
York and I was so excited because I was going
to have a whole week on my own schedule with
tons of time, and I was like, I'm gonna read
Jensen and I made a special trip to Barnes and Noble.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
I walked around, what do I want to bring with me?

Speaker 5 (05:52):
I bought The Wager by David Grahan, who is the
author of Killers of the Flower Moon. It's about a
shipwreck and this it's a true story.

Speaker 6 (06:02):
It's it's amazing. I was so excited about it.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
I get on the plane, I open it up, I
get about forty pages in, I decide to take a nap,
and then I left it on the plane.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh no, oh no, it's hanging out with a leather jacket.

Speaker 6 (06:16):
It's a leather jacket. And that was day one.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I have got to say, Danielle, I'm amazed because you
are so focused and you are so scheduled, and yet
almost every time.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
We travel somewhere you leave something somewhere.

Speaker 6 (06:31):
Well, I've realized what it is for me.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
I have a an like an over concern about like
holding people up.

Speaker 6 (06:41):
I don't want to be an imposition to any.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Mirror expression plane, Oh my gosh, plane, like those people
that take forty five minutes to get out of their
seat and pick up their luggage and what.

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Are you doing?

Speaker 6 (06:50):
What are you doing?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
You know what happens for twenty minutes I have.

Speaker 5 (06:54):
I only brought a carry on with me for my
one week trip, so that meant I have the carry
on and the Duffel bag. And I was by myself,
so I and I was in the window, so I
had put my book on the seat, got out and
really quickly wanted to get my stuff, but also had
a coat.

Speaker 6 (07:09):
And then my rush of.

Speaker 5 (07:10):
Like I don't want to hold up these people for
even half a second longer. And then by the time
I realized it, I was like, almost all the way
to baggage Claim, and I was like, I'm not going back.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
They got off the shipwreck or whatever. It's all good.
By the way, Rider, It's so good.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
I will I also highly recommend the first forty pages
of Wager.

Speaker 6 (07:41):
Welcome to Pond Meets World.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm Daniel Fishl, I'm Rider Strong, and I'm Wilfordell.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
So here we are again at the end of another
Boy Meets World season, and the tradition continues to fully
recap the last few months of Pod meets World. We
want a listener's perspective, someone who has been hearing these
stories and our analysis for the first time, screaming at
their phones or car radios letting us know, hey, idiot,

(08:18):
Sean's dad got the RV back from Vernam And with
season four being such an over the top success in
our rewatch, this one should be a lot of fun.
As always, we have invited TJ and Siege from our
favorite fancast, Bra Meets World, a show that analyzes Boy
meets World with a melanin point of view. They are

(08:39):
well into the final season with their rewatch, so we
continue to remind them no spoilers and don't tell us
how bad it gets. But today they are back with
us to talk about our salad days, Peque Danielle, fast
girls in leather, jackets, broccoli naching, a rarely used wilderness store,
the vital importance of the SATs, and fart Knocker. Come

(09:00):
back to the show, our pals from Broh Meets World.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Hello, Hello, you so happy to be here.

Speaker 6 (09:11):
So happy to see you. All right, so welcome.

Speaker 5 (09:15):
We were just I just mentioned in your intro that
season four for us was a real standout season.

Speaker 6 (09:24):
Do you guys agree? How did you guys feel about
season four?

Speaker 4 (09:27):
Season four is our favorite season? Go ahead, Tony.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
I have been an advocate for season four Boy Meets
World since before the DVDs even came out. As soon
as that Season four DVD came out, I was waiting
at Target that day because I've always loved this season.
As you guys have discussed, it's banger after banger. There's
so many iconic episodes, and it's just it's been so
great to get your thoughts on it.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I think
all of us after season three, we were kind of
there are great episodes in season three. There really were
great episodes in season three. But by the fourth or
fifth one in a row of season and four, you're
kind of going, oh, okay, we're hitting our stride. Like
you could tell, I mean, you really could tell.

Speaker 7 (10:05):
And it's just it's a different it feels like, you know,
one of the things that we were talking about with
season four was that, like, it feels like the world
is expanding in season four, and that comes to be
the overall themes, Like we're getting new sets every other episode.
We're going to hospitals, and we're going to funeral homes,
so we're going to wrestling matches, and it just feels
like we're we're spending a lot of time outside of
the classroom in the Matthews home and things that were

(10:27):
very familiar to us in the earlier seasons, but a
lot like growing up. You know, as soon as you
get your license, you're out of the house. You're gone.

Speaker 6 (10:33):
So yeah, like that exactly.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
I mean, there were so many iconic moments in the
season sometimes it was hard for us to remember or
imagine that they happened in the same episode like the
hair Today Goon Tomorrow episode. We were shocked because we
we all remembered both of those storylines so well.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
We were like, that was one episode. How is that possible?

Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:56):
It was nuts.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (10:57):
I mean to have classic storylines overlap each other, I
think is the big thing with season four because you're like, wow,
that B storyline with this A storyline, They're both great.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yes, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
That was a good looking guy? Was the hair Yamar?

Speaker 7 (11:12):
Right?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, that's right. It was like what Yeah, No, I
was just gonna say Tony said it perfectly where he
said that boy meet Throat feels like it's been like
a recipe handed down generation after generation, and this one
they got the recipe just right, like they knew all
the ingredients that needed to come and make it like
a good balance. To Mellen, that's that's definitely what we
get in a lot of these episodes.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
Yes, that's a that's a great way of saying it.
So would you guys like to jump in with your
questions critiques about our Pod Meets World season?

Speaker 4 (11:43):
Absolutely, as with all things, like we wanted to say
right off the bat, like a lot of people think
that you can't like enjoy something and also critique it.
And I was like, specifically, this season, Boys Throw brings
up a lot of things that have to do with
like intersectionality and pass and racing, like all of this
other stuff and conversations that we're just not having on

(12:04):
television as much as we used to. So we appreciate
season four for the fact that it did tackle a
lot of these things. That said, there were like a
couple of blind spots you guys right up, and we
were like, they didn't quite hit hit where we wanted
you to go, but we understood, like, you know, you
can only go some far in I don't know what
an hour and a half, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
Exactly, So highlight some of those for us to tell
us some areas you you think we didn't go deep
enough on.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yeah, absolutely so. In the Chick Like Me episode, for example,
one of the things that we covered and writer, we
had sav Rogers, who you met was their movie Chasing
Chasing Amy. Oh yeah, yeah, of course they met you
and they were telling us about we had them on
our show and they are trans director and we had

(12:55):
them on for that episode and we talked about passing
privilege and just like the things that go in when
someone actually, when a boy actually does go in and
dress in females clothing, or if a non binary person
were to do it. And again, it's so complex, it's
so murky when you're dealing with a kid's show, but

(13:17):
there is something to say about, like this is played
as a joke, and if children do it in real life,
violence comes up. So we just want to recount that.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, right, that's well, well that's one of the things
that we were I know that I'm worried about. Is
at least in Chick Like Me, they attempted to have
a deeper storyline to why Sean is dressing like a woman,
whereas when Eric does it in the later episodes, they
attempt nothing. It is simply just the joke. It is

(13:47):
the joke of Eric being unattractive. It is a joke
of being unattractive women. It is every kind of stereotype
you could have. And so that's one that when people
always ask me, like, is there one you're not looking forward,
It's like, yeah, I can think of one right away,
because again, at least in Chick Like Me, they attempted
to put a deeper meaning to it, where they might
not have always hit what they were looking for, but

(14:09):
there was something there, and I, while I don't remember
the episode.

Speaker 7 (14:13):
Well, we don't think.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, I don't think they did anything with svet Rona.
I think it's just put will and address and let
them be funny. And that's yeah, it does not age.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
No.

Speaker 7 (14:25):
You know, something else that we were talking about, and
you guys had mentioned this a ton, was like how
the show tackles class and poverty with like country accents
and like people seemingly being from the Deep South in Philadelphia.
But like one of the things that we were thinking
about is that the show really showcases poverty as like
a moral failing instead of a systematic one. Like we
never really get into like the systematic issues that could

(14:48):
cause Sean to be in poverty. It's always just like, well,
you know, he his parents didn't try hardly.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Take the SATs exactly. It's like this would have happened.

Speaker 7 (15:00):
You don't want to end up a touty Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
And it's always very interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's true that
they did that.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, Well that's it's really a big thing because it
is it's always like, well, you know, Sean, poor Sean
in the trailer park because his Dad's never around, and
it was It's things like that.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
It's not like, well, how did we get to this situation?

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Interesting, they never touch on any of that.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Well, I wonder if a lot of that has to
do with the fact that it's from mostly the kid's perspectives,
you know, because it is true that a kid doesn't
really have the capability to understand systematic influences on their
parent situation. They're just born into their parent situation and
then they have to sort of decide where they want
to go within that, you know. So that yeah, but

(15:41):
you're right, it doesn't Yeah, that's that's a lot, don't
they allude.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Doesn't Alan allude to the fact that Check drinks at
the beginning?

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Well, Verna right, Verna and Verna too.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
I mean, it's kind of like that's one of the
so of course he's a drink, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (15:55):
It is later confirmed by Matt Lawrence's character in season
five too.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Okay, so there you go. Yeah, I mean it's it's like, well,
he's a drinker. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
In the episode Security Guy, for example, we talked about
like the way that Eric immediately adapts to getting the
security position and having you know, like this authority without
it being earned, and like its commentary on like the
police state, and like why Eric would feel a certain
way about being like an authority figure with costs. But
then also if you go back to Dangerous Secrets, Sean

(16:30):
has a different history with cops, which is would be
painted differently because of like his surroundings and so like again,
these are things where it's like we're really glad that
what mean throw eaton brought them up, but they kind
of really do make you say this can only be
told from or this is currently only being told from
like one perspective, right, absolutely, all right.

Speaker 7 (16:51):
But I will say that there's a lot of great
stuff with season four as well, and like, for example,
one of our favorite episodes is bm B B. There's
it's there's no downtime, it's straight jokes throughout. It's everyone
is performing, like at their top tier level. And we
also love seeing Sean as like the street smart, entrepreneurial businessman.

(17:16):
We feel like that's not something we really get fleshed
out in later seasons, but we kind of love that
aspect of Sean's personality.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah, well that's it. We we we kind of stumbled
upon that when we did the bizarre episode where Seawan
is like suddenly a doctor and the hot you know,
his ability to just like blend in wherever and and
kind of succeed no matter what the situation is really funny.
And I don't know if that continues. I think they
kind of dropped that, but in season four. Throughout season four,
whatever weird situation there, and Shawn's just like map, I'm

(17:44):
totally fine, totally And I love.

Speaker 6 (17:47):
That we had mentioned that it's a real natural evolution.

Speaker 5 (17:50):
It's a real natural quality to have when you're the
son of Chet, and I don't I don't know that
it's ever directly acknowledged that way, but it is. It's
my It's one of my favorite qualities of Sean. Because
after as we were watching it, we kept seeing it happen.
I was like, of course, this is Chet's kid, this
is a kind has grown up watching his dad take

(18:11):
command of any situation, be whatever he needs to be
to get through or to get by or to succeed,
and so of course Sean has it.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
I love it, right, And then Corey is the counterpoint,
just freaking out. It's so funny.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Do you see you see Sean being raised where at
some point, you know, Chet turned over in the car
and went.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Remember if anybody asked, I'm a congressman something like that.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Oh my gosh. You know that Sean and Chet were
pulling scams, you know, like they had all their little
pattern down and their cons to be able to like
manipulate suave.

Speaker 7 (18:41):
See an episode of that.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Heartbreak episode of like Chet Sean.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
That would have been great.

Speaker 7 (18:50):
Something else that, you know, As I was listening to
you guys talk about log Walk to Pittsburgh, for example,
I understand that as actors you probably have your own
personspective of these episodes from filming it and watching it
as adults. I cannot tell you the cultural milestone, which
is a long Walk to Pittsburgh in terms of like, yes,
it resets the entire show. But for that moment when

(19:14):
I remember watching Live ABC Friday night when To showed
up in the rain, I was clapping watching the show
like it like I don't know, it did something to
my generation in terms of like needing someone to root
for and needing a couple to root for. And I know,
like we kind of dissect if it's really responsible to
kind of show a couple like this but at the

(19:35):
time it really meant a lot to I mean, I
took more from this episode than Siege did, so I'll
speak for myself.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
This is one where he and I completely disagreed because
I looked at Long Walks to Pittsburgh and I was like,
it's iconic because of like the surprise element of it all.
But I honestly feel like, A, we should have spread
it out some more. I feel like, like having to
ping A be missing, especially considering the fact that she's
missing very often in this show for a few episodes
in between would have given some weight to the separation.

(20:04):
And uh, you know, maybe they do need to see
other people, especially considering the fact that Corey has no
problem seeing other people when they're together.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
He's off to the look for ski bunnies. He's always
like yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
I also think one of the reasons Long Walk to
Pittsburgh worked for the generation that watched it live like
you is because there was no binging. Yeah, so you
were allowed to forget what happened before and just kind
of started you every week if you had to.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
If you binge this, then you're like, wait.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
A minute, but we're also not binging. We're also mostly
doing one episode a week.

Speaker 6 (20:44):
When we were born.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
We're watching one episode a week almost on the same
schedule that we would have been watching it back then.
We are not taking five months off in the summer,
so between seasons, we're not We are binging it from
season to season. So the drop shock we experience at
the beginning of every season is absolutely due to the
fact that we're watching them consecutively, but we're not watching

(21:08):
more than one episode at a time, so I guess
that's true.

Speaker 7 (21:11):
Well, I will say about something about watching it live
was that if you missed an episode, you just missed it,
like there was no geting around to it. So a
lot of our like my opinion of Coreyantapanga was kind
of the idea of Coreyantipanga. And it wasn't until I
did the rewatch where I was like, oh, this isn't
really earned, Like they didn't really like showcase them as
a couple long enough to make this breakup mean anything.

(21:32):
But at the time, it was just like, no, Quoreyan
Tapanga are the rawsome rachel for me as a kid,
and so seeing them get together was.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
A big deal.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
And I think a lot of that has to do
with the age you are when you're watching it, when
you think about and you can truly remember, writers should
be able to remember it more than anybody, how very
real and overwhelming your emotions are for a person you're
in a relationship with. Even if you are thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,

(22:02):
and now in our forties or thirties, you can look
back and say, Wow, I had no idea I was
a kid.

Speaker 6 (22:10):
What could I have What could it have possibly meant?
But it's so real, and.

Speaker 5 (22:14):
It's one of the reasons why it's so important not
to discount the feelings of children, because for them it
is absolutely life or death. It means everything in those moments,
And so I can bring myself back to being a teenager,
and I would have absolutely been rooting for Corey and
Tapanga just to see teenagers who love each other winning

(22:35):
and it being taken seriously. It is everyone's telling you
when you're a teenager, you don't know what love is,
and you just want someone to say, maybe you do,
Maybe this is real, Maybe you're right and this is
forever and we're wrong.

Speaker 6 (22:51):
That's all you want to hear as a teenager.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
So watching it and seeing them win, I can imagine
it was a big victory for teens everywhere.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, And I think the key there is is that
it was live right, like this idea that we didn't know.
I mean, I guess we kind of knew there was
probably gonna be another season, but what the I mean,
I think part of the reason that we were harsh
on the episode, or at least I was, is that
you know, we know what's coming, which is that once
you've set the stakes this high, once this these teenagers

(23:22):
have said, we're going to convince all the adults and
we're going to win against all the odds. Yeah, it's
you know, then the next next season you got to
end with marriage, and then you got to have the marriage,
and then you know, you just got to keep up
being the sort of in order for there to be conflict,
in order for there to be story. But if you
erase all that and you just think in terms of
like living on the edge of week to week, Yeah,

(23:42):
it's a win, you know, and it's super It must
have been super satisfying and feel like, oh my god,
they're actually going to do it. The show is going
to go there, you know, and like we talked about it,
that's a huge swing yeah, And I think for some
people it's like that was the swing that hooked them
into the show, and that will forever be the memory
of like why why Boy Meets World exists. It's just

(24:02):
like it's so interesting that the Corey into Panga stored.
Like if anybody, if you ask anybody, what is Boy
Meets World about? Corey Intopang is probably the first thing
out of their mouth, if not the second thing. And
yet watching season four, especially with the way this season ended,
you know what I came away with was like, Wow,
this was this was the Eric and Shawn season besides

(24:26):
Long Walk to Pittsburgh, Corey Corey's strugg is not struggling
as much like he struggles with the Topanga. But like,
compared to when you think about season one, which was
all Corey all the time, every episode was driven by
Corey's meandering or mistakes, this season is you know, very
much focused on basically alternating Will and Ryder episodes where

(24:46):
we're watching these characters and Corey is supportive or sort
of interrogating our arcs, but it's our arcs that are
driving this season, and that's forgotten. You know, It's so funny.
I didn't remember I'm watching going wow, from episode episode
it's it's Will or it's me, and then like, yeah,
the end of the season with like basically Eric coming

(25:07):
around to gonna do the sat He's gonna go to college,
and like from where he started, which was you know,
the yogurt cup episode, that's like, that's the arc. I mean,
that's the structuring device of the whole season. And yet
you know what we remember of Boybe's world is Corey
to Bank, which.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Is interesting because it also that when it does, it
is alternating between you and me.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
It leads to my favorite corries of all time.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
I mean that Corey is just that Corey who comes
in and is in between us and looking back and
forth and has the zingers and is kind of the
neurotic Cory.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
I could watch that Cory forever.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Ben was so good in season four and it was
just a great He wasn't too whiny, and he wasn't
too needy and he was he was just really funny
and neurotic and my god that he would have He
had me laughing out loud like most of this season.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
So yeah, it was my favorite.

Speaker 7 (25:59):
Like what one of the things I love about Corey
is the season, he kind of plays the role of
like peacekeeper more than he does like trying to understand
the world around him. He's not other confusion. He's like, Oh,
I'm going to walk across this highway and talk to
your mom, not because it benefits me, but because it
benefits you. Like he's really trying to help the people
around him more like with Frankie and his dad, Like
he's trying to help people more than he's trying to

(26:19):
understand his own confusion, which I think leads to his
better moments.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
Yeah, and a version of Corey by the way, Yeah right,
because this is this is like some of the best
Corey that we get, and that's one of the reasons
why we absolutely love it. And Will you said something
that Tony and I were totally excited to talk to
you guys about, which is that the boy in Boy
Meets World this season constantly is shifted. We get so
much more world expansion in terms of the families and

(26:48):
where Eric is going in life, the idea that Eric
is great with kids. These are all things that we
really love. And I think when you look at all
of that and then you go back to the Korean
tapanga of it all, it becomes murky because while we
want to champion Corey and Tapinga's love, we also know

(27:10):
that something I'm just gonna say, Corey is like an
habitual cheater, Like like Corey wants the lots to Panga down,
but constantly the moment he has her is like looking elsewhere.
So I feel like that, yeah, get.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
The last notation of Corey set that up in what
season two? Right?

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (27:30):
And then even in this season, like Long Walk to
Pittsburgh happens, and a few weeks later he's debating if
he wants to sleep with Mary Beth out of college,
Like it really took no time at all, right, I know.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
I mean even in the Long Walk to Pittsburgh, although
he is preoccupied with thinking about Tapanga, he's still like
agreed to a double date at his house.

Speaker 6 (27:49):
With Sparrow sisters, with the Sparrow sisters, and.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
And then but then says to Tapanga, like you went
to a dance.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, And it was like wait, whoa, Like did you
did you remove the woman from your life? App so
you could speak to Tapanga about whether she went to
a dance or not, Like yeah.

Speaker 7 (28:05):
So as you watch it, you really understand that Corey
likes the idea of Topanga more than he likes Topanga,
and so that's a little heartbreaking as you kind of
go through as a thirty something. Now looking back on it,
I'm like, yeah, this is a manic pixie dream girl things.

Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, there's also a little bit of like, you know,
when you think of the speech he gives in the
Long Walk to Pittsburgh where he's like, you know, this
love is about the fact that she makes me better.

Speaker 6 (28:32):
Yeah, and they're really.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Good for me. She's me for her.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
I like the way she makes me feel because she
loves me. And there's it's not really quite so much.
It is definitely hard for me to see this the
Corey and Topanga storyline without very much also feeling like
I'm I'm way too close to the mindset of the
men who wrote the relationship.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
I understand that, you know, And.

Speaker 5 (29:03):
So it's like it's one of those things where when
I see the relationship and I see those things, I'm
very pointed to exactly what you guys were talking about
at the very beginning of this episode, which is this
is a singular POV. Yes, the Corey Topanga relationship is
a singular POV. That tells you a lot about that

(29:26):
POV from and where it was coming from, and the
way that POV views women and views relationships, and so
it's you know, it's good to acknowledge and and then
you just move on and try.

Speaker 6 (29:43):
To enjoy the show.

Speaker 7 (29:44):
It's so funny that you said that, because I remember
when we did our season one recap, we were like, hey,
we're not really a fan of the way they write
women on the show, and you guys were like, oh really,
And now that you're four seasons in and we've seen Lonnie,
we've seen Jennifer and the Fair to forg or Mary
Beth and Learning to Fly or even Amiens Payga stories
and how they fleshed out, what do you think now

(30:07):
of how the women have been betrayed? And I know
you were Daniel always has the best women are men. Yeah,
that seems to be I think.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
I think Lannie was a deep, well thought out.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Just what they're kind of but also show her bell.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, it was very And it's just it's funny because
you think of, uh, when when I started or when
we started out to speak myself, when I started really
really noticing at first you I think of it character wise,
So I'm like, man, these characters aren't flushed out and
they're they're very one dimensional. But then the older I'm

(30:49):
getting in, the more i'm watching, I'm thinking more of
the actors, and it's like, you're given nothing, and a
lot of these women came in and killed their performances
with not a whole lot to work work with. Sure,
so that from an acting standpoint, it's even more impressive
because it's like, Wow, you're your one note. You're gonna
make it for because you're good at what you do,

(31:12):
but they're really.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Giving you nothing to work with.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, So that was that's what changed for me, was
thinking about more about the the actors that came in
and with just nothing to work with.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah. I think that I think that there is you know,
especially with like Amy Antipanga. I mean, there is this
understanding that that that women are are potentially nuanced and
multi layered, but the perspective of the show is definitely
on on the outside of them. You know, they're they're
a force to be reckoned with. They're not actually driving

(31:44):
the story. They're they're either contended against or brought into
the fold, but they're not the show itself feels, you know,
it's just very it's very male driven, like it's just
a guy's perspective, especially a teenage boy's perspective. And yeah,
that's you know, I think.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
That that's what they're going for.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
I mean it was called it's called Boy Meets World,
So I mean that's what they were going for. But
when as as we were talking about, though, once the
show expands, which it is, especially in season four, why
not expand that too exactly? And it doesn't seem that
they did it all.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
No, I mean, because you think about even like the
you know, I'm blanking on the character's name, but when
you date the woman with a child, you know, she
she does seem complicated?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
She she won don't they do a couple? They did
a couple in this scene this season was what was
Brittany Powell. Britney Powell's character, and I.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Think, you know, like she's actually a good actor and
it's great, it's a but all of her sort of
nuances off off off screen, you know, like we know
that this person has a complicated life with a kid
and a babysitter and all, you know, and it's hard
for her. And so there's like nods towards it, But
it's all about how Eric's going to relate to that,
you know, that's the whole point of the show. And

(32:57):
and so she's never really you know, she is. She
is a complicated character. We're just not part of that complication.
It's just pushed aside.

Speaker 5 (33:06):
Well, it's interesting you say that, though, because I thought
of her as well, and I thought it added a
new type of woman, which is the woman you feel
sympathy for.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
The woman who.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
Right, the woman, the woman who.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
Needs protection, the woman who has a complicated life that
you know, I I do like her. She sure is cool,
but I can't have that life. That life would be
bad for me. It's even hard for her. That's that's
the extent of.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
And she's gonna let Eric out of it.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Like the Madonna horror complex. It's a little bit better,
but it's still kind of sure.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
Absolutely, And and you know we see it then in
the in a lot of ways with the Long Walk
to Pittsburgh, where the other type of woman that we've
discussed a few times is like the woman who you know,
commands a situation is either a nag or.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
Is gonna is gonna Hey, you have to listen to.

Speaker 5 (34:07):
Me, and there's a little bit of like a, well,
I'm I'm not afraid of her physically, although because.

Speaker 6 (34:11):
We love that. We love it when a woman can
beat us up, so we're not scared.

Speaker 7 (34:16):
We love it.

Speaker 5 (34:17):
But I'm scared of her because she's the person I'm
intimate with, and so therefore I'm going to listen to
her perspective, like there's it's just yeah.

Speaker 7 (34:29):
Well, Danielle, you know, even Tapega's character, Like, there were
so many times in season four that I remember thinking, oh,
this is a big Topanga episode with like the sixteen
candles thing, and then she's like hardly in it. Like
watching season like four seasons, do you feel like your
memory of Tapanga matches up to the reality of Tapanga?

Speaker 6 (34:48):
No?

Speaker 3 (34:49):
No.

Speaker 6 (34:50):
I was shocked.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
I remembered the episode with the wrestling and it was
Tapega's sixteenth birthday, and yet I knew I couldn't really remember, well,
what happens at Tapanga's birthday party?

Speaker 6 (35:00):
What is does? How does Topanga feel about her birthday?
I didn't.

Speaker 5 (35:04):
I was like, I don't remember any of that stuff.
But I'm used to having a bad memory, So what
I'm realizing is I actually don't have a bad memory.
I just don't have many memories because it wasn't there exactly.

Speaker 6 (35:15):
I wasn't there as much.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
But Hair Today, Goon Tomorrow is a really good Panga
episode that.

Speaker 6 (35:19):
Is maybe my favorite episode of the season.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
It's a really great that the fact that you drive
the story, your perspective and your feelings are really showcased,
and you have an arc, you know, and it's a
great It's great because you come in like a sort
of typical boy meets world character with like let me
teach you a lesson, Corey, and then it flips on you.
And that was a great opportunity, you know, I wish,
I wish the word.

Speaker 7 (35:42):
I was going to use.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's such an opportunity because they're starting to show to
Pega and Shan together and maybe, yeah, there's a history there,
and there's a history between all of them and they're
like a crew, and it was like, oh, we're starting
it now. Now to Pegas started, she's part of the show.
Now she's part of this crew. She's going to be
part of the capers. And then it's like and then nothing, well.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Then like air B and b B and b's where
it's just like put her in a French you know,
and she'll just like sell out in a heartbeat, and
then it's it's a joke. It's a it's a one
off joke, and it's like, oh, is that the Tapanga
here today?

Speaker 5 (36:12):
Goon tomorrow is also made my favorite Corey and Tapanga
episode of them all. I feel like they are such
a team, and they are so supportive of each other,
and they're so good at expressing what they love about
the other one. It just like that episode was like, Wow,
even if we just got little nuggets of that in

(36:32):
every episode, that would have been great. It would have
really helped solidify why they love each other. I'm grateful
we got that episode. I love that episode.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, and then coupled with a great Beast story. So
that's a solid episode just all the way around. Plus
plus solid episode all the way around.

Speaker 7 (36:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:49):
Great. Something that you guys mentioned that I thought was
really important is that this season and Body Throat as
a whole, as we start to look at it just
kind of shows into like, sorry, it doesn't show. It
tells us so much without showing. And I really had
a problem that, specifically with the female characters because I
think of the Security Guy episode when Eric is just

(37:10):
like disrespectful to Amy and it's like, I don't work
for you, I work for my dad. And then Alan
and Eric come to the conclusion that Amy is deserving
and was right, but they don't say it in front
of Amy. And that's my thing. It's like, if we
are taking this time and we are speaking to men
and we want men to learn lessons or boys, then
we should be teaching them lessons on how to treat

(37:32):
women in general, and that includes if you're gonna say
that woman had a valid opinion, say that in front
of the woman as well.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yes, yeah, right, agreed.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Okay, As we said earlier, we love this show.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
We did, we didn't you.

Speaker 8 (37:50):
Susan Zora was great.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
So I want to talk about Quiz Show a little
bit because that's an episode where we have Corey, Seawan,
and Tapanga, the three of them were coming together. However,
you talked about the idea in Quiz Show of we
disagreed or sorry, I think you all disagreed on whether
or not Feenie or the episode had a point in

(38:25):
terms of pop culture versus like arts and sciences and
what is like real knowledge. And it was funny to
me because when we talked about that episode, we talked
about the facts that nerds are like running culture now,
like there's a way to blend both. I was like,
you can ask anyone on Reddit and they will tell
you the weight and density of Captain America's shield, So

(38:47):
like there is a way of like blending both that
we could have brought in some of those I think
it's more of a discussion about substance versus spectacle. And
also really wanted to get your guys take on like
media literacy. We know that media literacy and the ability
to like critique art is kind of dwindling, so again

(39:08):
that I just wanted to like bring that up big subject.
By the way, I had.

Speaker 5 (39:13):
No idea Quiz Show was such a polarizing episode. There
are a whole faction of people who say, it's my
favorite episode, I love this one really yeah, and then
there are a whole bunch of people who are like,
skip it, don't like it, hate this episode, worst of
the season. It's it's very it's very polarizing. I did
not I did not realize it. I would for me,
it did not fall so strongly on either way. I

(39:34):
enjoyed it way more than I thought I was going to.
But I wouldn't put it in like in my favorites
of the season. But it also to me wasn't the
worst of the season. Sure, so I didn't quite just
the one.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Where you changed my mind. I think this is, yeah,
where you change that.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
I did not like it at the beginning. By the end,
I'm like, you're making some good points.

Speaker 7 (39:51):
You're making it.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, well, I thought you did have a good point.
I thought your whole point was why, like why can't
there be like mindless television or you know, like the
things in pop culture. As we said all the time
with X Men, it's like, no that has value that
can get children into science and art and kind of
like we do.

Speaker 7 (40:10):
It all the time with this show, miss All Turner
get them into myth with an X Men exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I mean, that's that's the point, is I thought.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
And again it's as a television junkie there, I'm okay
with going in knowing it.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
I think what they were trying.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
To do is essentially say that when it came to
a quote unquote television program that just dealt with intelligence
and facts and bastardizing that to turn that into something
different as opposed to just spinning off a whole new
show with Corey Tapanga and Sean and I, to me,
it fell a little flat, like that's it's funny because

(40:46):
I went and I watched Quiz Show. I think immediately
after Yeah, we watched this episode, I went and went
watched a movie again, and that the whole idea of
the Quiz Show scandal was about cheating.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, yeah, and they weren't cheating.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
They were It was like they were just being get
you know, given pop culture references, which the nerds, of
course aren't going to know that Captain America shield is
made of vibranium, but Sean is going to.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
But that doesn't make one of them smarter than the other.
They're just talking about you.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Know, if you sit me down and you talk about math,
I'm gonna come off as the biggest idiot you've ever
met in your life if you talk, if you sit
there and you talk to me about Brandon Sanderson books,
I'm gonna look like a genius.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
So it was strange with that episode for me.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
You know, what's occurring to me about just while we're
talking about it is that the difference between the media
landscape then and now. And like, really what our writers
were writing about is power and responsibility. And I think
it's easier like nowadays there is less divide between content

(41:48):
creators or storytellers and their audience. Right, Like, you can
be a content cred You can be a storyteller and
publish it right now, right you just need a mic,
need a computer, and you get. But back then, in
the nine d if you were in any position to
create a television show, to create content, you were given
a lot of power. And that is sort of gone nowadays, right,

(42:11):
Like that's just not a thing we think about. But
back then, I think our writers were wrestling with this
sense of responsibility, you know, the sort of you know,
to be very spider manny about it. You know, with
great power comes great responsibility. And I think that's what
they were really, It's it's really a group of a
group of creatives struggling with, you know, this question of

(42:33):
like what do we do with this power? Like do
we just entertain? Do we just create a show like
where we're sliming kids and whatever, you know, just jokes,
and or do we insert you know, insert education? Do
we try and feenie it up, and obviously our writers
fell on the side of feenie it up. And I
think that that's good, right, Like, and I think nowadays

(42:55):
it's less of an issue because now there's so many
different ways to go and like, so I think, I think, Will,
I think your point is well taken in today's landscape.
But back then I would have probably pushed back a
little harder and say, no, you actually do have a responsibility.
And I think that it's easier to see in the
realm of like news, which I think we talked about

(43:15):
in the when we did the episode, which is like,
you know, uh, there's like this is an argument for
u NPR, right, a nationally funded uh you know, tax
dollar funded news source, because the idea there is that
it's not the bottom line is not try and get
as much money as possible by appealing to advertisers, but

(43:37):
instead to have a source of just information to that
to that the neutrality is the goal, and that it's
actually built into the structure of the content itself. Right.
And I think if you go all the way back
to like Quiz Show the movie, it was even more

(43:57):
important then because you only had three networks and it
was right those networks were being broadcast in the air
and that was the only source people had for and
so there was more of a sense of responsibility. Yeah,
that's kind of gone now, right, Like so now we're
in this complete free for all, and in a weird way,
maybe it is more important, but the pressure is definitely off.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
I also think our writers were if we think about
other things that were very successful at the time, and
I think back to the other episode we did in
I don't remember which season it was, but where you
guys had where Corey and Sean had the radio show
and they brought in girls and it was very salacious.
I think there was a major commentary on shock Jock

(44:43):
Nature where Howard Stern and those kinds of things where
it was like, oh the ratings that, oh the numbers
they're making millions, the people tuning in, like you said,
a spectacle. But we had to get that message of
anyone can do that, that's the lowest common denominator. We
had to do that within the confines of a family

(45:05):
slash kids show. So it became about pop culture mindless TV.
When I really think what they were and what they
tried to hint to with us being you know, oh
hair and I'm the queen, and look how cute Sean
is with his poudy lips. They were getting to a
thing of a little bit of salaciousness, sing out, selling out,

(45:29):
not about the straightforward kind of it's okay to just
have a fun TV show. I think it was a
bigger commentary, but they had to do it within the
confines of a family and kids show, and it then,
you know, pop being a pop culture nerd took the
fall for salacious shock jock.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
It sounds like we could have used the media teacher
the time.

Speaker 6 (45:53):
I wonder where we would have had one of those.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
Great character to insert into the quiz show episode, right,
like if he was the one sort of on the set,
like who would arranged this a job at the show?
Like that would have been great.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
And you've got you got Minkus there as well as
one of the nerd I mean, come on, it's yeah
to that point.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
What we just talked about is like this balance and
this need to have a substance as we go, like
all agreed on you guys this episode have a lot
of very special episodes. And I was going to say,
for me, I don't feel like we do things like
Dangerous Secret or cult fiction as much as we used to,
And is there something lost in not having those very

(46:35):
special episodes in kids at least in live television. I
believe they do it in animation a lot. I know
that there was like a really big deal a few
weeks ago on blue Yeah, everyone tell me about Bluey.
But like in live action, I don't think we do
these very special episodes in the way that we used
to do. You, as people who work in children's television,
do you feel like we're losing something by not having that?

Speaker 5 (46:58):
Yes, I am solutely do, and I know that they're
Like I worked on Sydney to the Max and that
show was so grounded and so great and so real,
and they did do a couple episodes that were very special,
but they did a very good job, similar to a
Boy Meets World, where you didn't feel the entire time
like what am I watching?

Speaker 6 (47:17):
There were still there were still laughs.

Speaker 5 (47:19):
Like we talked about what a stellar job Dangerous Secret
did of having such a serious topic and yet complimented
so well by laugh out loud moments, And I feel
like Sidney to the Max did that. But I know
that on a lot of the other shows I work on.
You are in the room for pitching one of those things,

(47:40):
and the thing you hear is, I don't know, it
sounds so sad, And there's a real wanting to shy
away from that, like a real wanting to end. Part
of it is also our to give them credit. We
are so interconnected, for better or worse, with everything that's
going on in the world that we are aware of

(48:03):
so many sad things that are going on. TV has
become even more so in escape from real life.

Speaker 6 (48:11):
So there's a little bit of like, do we not
have enough sad? Have you?

Speaker 5 (48:15):
Have you been anywhere? Have you talked to anybody recently?
We have enough sad. Let's give somebody something else to
pay attention to. And I understand that as well, But
I love the TV shows where we actually walk away
with a great message.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
But is TV unfortunately now is not just not just now,
but for a while, has leaned into the sad everywhere.
That's why, I mean, the family sitcom is gone. You
don't get to turn on Home Improvement anymore. You don't
get to turn on any of these shows, and it's
just it sucks that we don't have more of the
Fun Friends Seinfeld. You know, the modern versions of these

(48:49):
shows I think would kill and they just they're gone.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
So yeah, it's terrible.

Speaker 7 (48:55):
Well, particularly with children's television, I feel like watching your
favorite characters, watching Sean dealing with something intense, watching Eric's
struggle with not getting to college, like all of those
things I think help children to process those emotions that
they might be feeling in their individual lives because they're
watching their favorite characters do it like they're able to

(49:15):
see it, so it's able to pay a new reality
for them of how to process it, which nowadays, when
you're constantly just making it about the jokes, it kind
of almost feels like there's no space for a child
to express their emotions that happen to be sad.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
There's also a huge power in knowing you're not alone. Yes,
so when you see somebody else going through what you're
going through, it's amazingly empowering to know that you're not
on an island by yourself.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Right, Yeah, I think that is the point, Like that's
where we've really lost I don't think special episodes work
in today's environment anymore because we were no longer a
captive audience right like it was back then, we were
the show on Friday night. You were watching it. It
was what your family did, and we could take this
sort of plunge into drama and you had to sit there.

(50:02):
That was it for the episode, whether you liked it
or not. And that was I think that was great.
But now, yeah, I think they'll just change the channel.
They'll just find their content somewhere else. It's all available
all the time, so those episodes would just drop off.
So it's harder. But I do think to your point,
will just representation. Just find a story to talk about abuse,
like it doesn't have to be a special episode, but

(50:24):
maybe just have a character who's poor, or character whose
parents are getting the divorce or whatever whatever issue or
drugs or whatever the issue is. I think it's harder
to write to, but it should be being written to.
I definitely think.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
But I don't think.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
I don't think that you can get away with a
very special episode the way point that is a bye
that's of a bygone.

Speaker 5 (50:44):
Aeron Lopez versus Lopez did some great episodes at the
end of season two that dealt with alcohol addiction that
you know, and so there are shows doing it and
doing it well and you're right, right, or they don't
have the same like, but this is a very special one.
It's just in part of the storyline, this character has
a drinking problem, and this character has now broken their sobriety,

(51:06):
and what are the repercussions of that? What are the
consequences of that? So it is it is definitely being done.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, I mean, but one of the reasons I never
took pills, no joke, is because of Alex Keaton on
Family Ties. I mean watching that growing up was like
it affected me to where I never took pills.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I know that has something to do with it.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Just that moment in my life of watching what my
favorite character on television was going through and I never
did it.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
So it meant stuff like that matters, It really does.
It makes an impact.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
Jesse Spano, I'm so excited, Like with both of the
Caffie pills and stuff like that. I also think of
like an episode of like Wheels where we get like
to pake It'll be like sometimes you just want to
get in the car and go ahuga and then but
also we get the heart at the end of it.
So I just feel like there is a way to
have ballads all one or the other.

Speaker 7 (51:58):
I agree, and classic season four tradition. You guys kind
of had your own very special episode with two nineteen
twenty four. It's the episode that was came out right
before the Quiet on Set documentary that has now been released.
Everyone's watched it. You guys have watched it. Do you
guys have any follow up thoughts on that, any like
updates on anything that you know? Have you know, how

(52:20):
you've processed things since watching it?

Speaker 4 (52:22):
What was that like for you?

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Still processing? Still massive, still massively processed. It's going to
be and this is not it's it's certainly not going
to be an easy thing to talk about. It's going
to be lifelong processing.

Speaker 7 (52:35):
For me.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
I knew I had been lied to and manipulated by
Brian essentially from the courtroom, but you didn't know how
much until you saw the documentary, and then I really
didn't know how much until I spoke with Drake. So
talking to Drake was amazing for a number of reasons.

(52:58):
It was horror for a number of reasons.

Speaker 7 (53:01):
It was.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Healing for a number of reasons.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
He started the conversation by saying to me, before you
say a word, I want you to know I love
you and I forgive you. That's how the entire conversation started.

Speaker 5 (53:16):
And I don't I don't want to cut you off,
but I do think it's important because you know, we
did not we did not know who the victim was
until the documentary aired. Will who had been in the courtroom,
had never seen Drake on a TV show When he
was in the courtroom. His name was never said in

(53:39):
the courtroom. He was John Doe or whatever they used.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Well, Dake and I talked about this because this.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
Was I don't think our listeners know that.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Thank you for that clarity, because again from observer, especially
when you listen to the to nineteen twenty four episode
and then you watch it, it does kind of paint
the picture that you were in there, you saw him,
you have a familiarity with him. No.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
I was in there and I saw him, but I didn't.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
I didn't agree that. When when the trailer dropped for
the doc we were frantically texting each other being like,
oh my god, there's another it was and we thought
it was another victim he did. It was like, great, No,
it wasn't. I don't know it was. It was.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I'm sitting in the back of the courtroom. There's no
social media.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I am twenty six years old at the time. I
don't watch Nickelodeon. I don't know who Drake Bell is.
I see a kid walk into the courtroom and I'm like, okay,
I've been lied to.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Automatically, I know this.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Right, because that was the age, was the factor.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
This is what the hell is going on?

Speaker 5 (54:37):
Yeah, Brian had told the people, he told about it.

Speaker 6 (54:40):
He was almost eighteen.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Half a decade.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
One thing happened one time, and so ten years later
Drake and I worked together, and it was a decade
later we worked together and he walked into Spider Man
and I didn't know who he was, and he didn't
know that I was there. He because we talked about this,
he said, no, I didn't in the courtroom, he goes,

(55:05):
I didn't know you were there, and we both talked
about how happy we were that that was the case,
because we had the best day working together. All I
wanted to do from the day in that courtroom was
apologized to whoever was there. And the idea that I
found out later that he was standing in front of
me and I did not have that was nuts and

(55:27):
Drake literally spent a good forty five minutes of our
conversation trying to make me feel better about.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
What had happened.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Yeah, that's the way it was with me too.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
And then you change your exchanging stories about Brian and
he's telling you what actually happened, and the knife in
my gut and I mean the knife and Rider and
I've spoken about this at nauseum was exactly what we
feared happened happened. Where Drake said, I loved you guys,
I loved Boymet's world.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
I loved him possible. And that's what Brian told me was,
look who I get to work with. I'm working Oh, I.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Know all the these are my best friends.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
These are my friends I help with their careers. I
bought so he used our names the way that he
used the names of the other famous people with us
to get this poor.

Speaker 6 (56:11):
Kid Uh to feel comfortable with him.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
There comes a point where you have to look at
yourself and go, I I have to be okay to
know I made a huge mistake, that I owed this
person an enormous apology that it's not gonna be enough.
I'm gonna spend a ton of time apologizing this person,
but you have to use that and move on to
become a better person yourself.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Yeah, I think, you know, when we recorded the episode,
it was you know, all we knew at that point
was that there was a documentary coming out and that
they were seeking comment from us, and that it was
gonna talk about Brian. And from the moment we started
this podcast, we had brought up like, oh, we're gonna
have to We're gonna have to address the factcause Brian's
on camera and we talk about our guest stars. And

(56:54):
we'd always said like, let's do it right, let's talk
about it, Let's tell the whole story. And then when
we got you know, when we were contacted, it was
sort of like, oh, I guess we we should just
do it now, we should just have the conversation. And
then the documentary came out. It was just devastating, the

(57:14):
you know, the the pain, you know, just hurting for
Drake and and just feeling so so full of regret
and shame and then just start picking apart the lies
and you know, my brother called me immediately. We just
sat there on the phone being like oh my god,

(57:36):
like what did what did you know? What did you
think happened? What did you know? And we're just I
just fell into this hole and yeah, I mean, you
know I still haven't quite gotten out of it. Well,
there's just so much cognitive dissonance that goes into it too,
you know when you're when it's somebody that you consider
a friend, you know, somebody that you that you loved,

(57:58):
you know. I mean I met Brian when I was
team So this is now when I'm twenty four. He's
telling me this story and here's how you can help me.
And all you have to do is write this letter
and you know, it's just this one time thing and
it's just awful, and it's like, oh god, you know,
and now I can you know. Of course, moral clarity
is just something that comes over time and and distance,

(58:24):
and you know, there's there's really no excuse. I mean,
you know that I accepted Brian's story, that I didn't
didn't ask ask the questions or do research or investigate
on my own, or just even that I was ever
friends with that piece to begin with, you know, I mean,
there it was just there was so much denial.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
There was no research to do.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
So that's the thing. I asked the questions. I sat
with him. I asked the questions. He had an answer
for everything.

Speaker 6 (58:52):
And they were lies.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
And it's we bought it. I mean, the writer's right,
there's no excuse.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
We bought it, hook line and sinker from this guy
who had ingratiated themselves into our lives. And the wolf
in sheep's clothing does is they they will keep a
pristine group of people where I can put my hand
on the Bible right now and raise my other hand
and say, I've never seen Brian Peck do anything even

(59:17):
slightly inappropriate. And they do that on purpose, because then
when they do find the one person or two people,
however many people they then abuse, they can look to
the other pristine group and say, you know me, have
I ever done anything to you? Have I ever been
in And that's what he did, is he separated us

(59:38):
into these groups.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
You know, the most disorienting part of watching the documentary,
you know, besides just this growing horror, it was like
this weird you know, just being so impressed with Drake,
Oh my god, his courage and his boy yeah, you know,
he's such an articulate, smart guy and and think, you know,

(01:00:01):
not only the courage to come forward now and to
do this documentary and and to be able to you know,
stand up for himself that way, but that he did
it back then too, you know, that that he took
the leap, you know, with support from his family and
you know, the people around him to be like, we
need to you know, we need to do the right

(01:00:21):
thing and and and charge this guy and and and
so I mean the feeling the real like beyond the
personal awfulness and and and shame. It was like I gotta,
I gotta find this guy, you know, I have to.
It was just like we need to. I have to
connect reach out to Drake and obviously apologize, but also

(01:00:43):
just just hopefully lessen his burden in some way because
he had done this courageous thing back then and still
doing it now, and to just let him know that
it wasn't this wall of people behind Brian knowing what
he did and so ordering him still, but it was
actually this completely misinformed you know. And to his credit,

(01:01:07):
the second we actually did get a hold of him,
it took a little while. It was like, oh, you know,
publicists and agents and trying to you know, and then
finally it was just Instagram, you know, I d M
him and it took him a little while to see it.
He was like, yes, call me, and I got on
the phone with him and it was just instant connection,
instant forgiveness. Yeah, yeah, it was just amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
You know, it's really funny. You very often askets you
did in this season, but you usually ask us if
you ruined the shows are. One of the things that
I want to say is you don't. Because the thing
about this podcast is you give context to behind the
scenes and how behind the scenes kind of influences what
we get on screen. And I think conversations like this

(01:02:00):
where we get an insider's perspective from child, from child actors,
from TV show producers and voice actors to be like,
this is the culture, and this is what's going on,
and this is what we would like to see different
so that we can continue to do the things that
we love.

Speaker 7 (01:02:16):
Yeah, well, thank I thank you guys, I mean as
fans like, not only you know, are you guys being
super open now, but you guys have provided art through
episodes like cult fiction or whatever, of how to deal
with these situations for kids and how to you know,
maneuver these situations that may happen in real life you
guys were kind of lucky to be on the show.
That kind of helped I think the problem more than

(01:02:37):
heard it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
So well, we appreciate you saying that, and thank you
for you know, we know it's a it was a
it's a tough subject, and we appreciate you guys not
shying away from asking us about it, and we appreciate
you coming here spending your time with us. Again, as always,
I don't want to end.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
On this note.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Have your note.

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
I want oh you have a quiz?

Speaker 5 (01:03:02):
Well, I also want to know what were your favorite
episodes of the season, each of you. If you had
to pick one, what's your favorite episode?

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
Oh, I only get one. I'm gonna cheat. I'm gonna
say what my favorite episode is, and then I'm gonna
tell you an episode that I really enjoyed and that
was like totally worth it, and that would be my
favorite would be B and B's. I just I love
the balance of Corey Topega and Sean being I love
Sean being street smart, as you said, having a different intelligence.

(01:03:31):
I think like Corey playing neurotic is the best version
of Corey. But then also the fact that we get
like the Feenie and Eric Bond and in a way
that they are literally in Boston, they're in a different town,
so it really does separate it. And when the bartender
says I would call that a friend, he's like, oh,
we are friends, And as the show goes, we're like

(01:03:55):
they are friends and everything we get with them afterwards.
This makes sense, but also the end is a lesson
to adults, which is it's never too late, Like even
Phoenie is like, oh, I didn't miss my chance. So
that episode just tens across the board for me. And
then I actually really enjoy Learning to Fly because I

(01:04:16):
feel like that challenges the characters in such a unique way.
How did Eric come in and catch Corey like almost
in the act and then being like, hey, you're an adult,
I'm not going to tell you what to do, right,
But at the exact same time, there's a morning after
to this decision, and then having that lesson kind of
echo with Corey being like, hey, there's a morning after

(01:04:40):
of your college decision, so don't just make it and
take the easy route. So yeah, that's those are the
ones that I really wanted to champion.

Speaker 7 (01:04:49):
I think Hair Today good towhere else a perfect episode.
I think it's I mean, there's so many of season
four that come up in my favorite episodes of all time,
but I'll actually give a shout out so you can't
go home again. I think that's such a strong season opener.
I mean, in terms of like Eric's arc, I think
it's such a beautiful opening to it, to the way

(01:05:10):
the season ends where he's like, you know, he starts
the season with you know, where do where do I belong?

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Where do I fit in?

Speaker 7 (01:05:16):
And then at the end of the season he's like,
I know what I want and I'm going to work
for it. I just think it's a beautiful art.

Speaker 6 (01:05:21):
It is for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Wait did I hear quiz? I want to hear quiz?

Speaker 7 (01:05:26):
Okay, all right, Yeah, So we wanted to do just
like a quick wrap up quiz where I'm gonna do
some rapid fire questions and you guys just it's it's
it's a this or that we call on our show.
We called this on the Fence where we just kind
of do you know, are you on the fence? Do
you want this or that? So just rapid fire as
quick as you can, Okay, Corey Intopega Soulmates or missed
the opportunity to date. Other people miss.

Speaker 5 (01:05:48):
The opportunity to miss the opportunity to.

Speaker 7 (01:05:53):
Post season four? Are you missing Frankie Moore or Turner more?

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Turner for sure, Turner Yeah, Tony.

Speaker 7 (01:06:00):
To Pega's best moment cutting her hair and hair today,
going tomorrow to proof a point, or risking it all
for love and along walk to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Cutting her hair.

Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
What do you prefer Sean joining the mob or joining
a cult mob mob.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Mob?

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
I love the episode, but I love the idea. That
could have been a whole, like three episode arc on
the criminal Path. It would have been great.

Speaker 7 (01:06:31):
Preferred alternative timeline Eric the Stepdaddy or Eric the Man
of Yoa, the mayor of Yogurt Town.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Stepdaddy, step Daddy, Stepdaddy. Can I be the stepdaddy in
yogurt Town? Because that was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Favorite character of.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
The season, Rapid Fire. I told you they were going
to do this. If you asked, I was like, they're
not going to be able to just go it out.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):
Oh my gosh, favorite character of the season. I feel
like I don't want to look through.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
My initial My initial reaction is Alan just because.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Watching his performance and he's just so good and the
character the growth and the character, and I'm that would
be my initial one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
But I really like Sean this season too. I really did.
But I also really liked Corey because.

Speaker 7 (01:07:22):
Derek too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
This was just a solid season all the way around.

Speaker 6 (01:07:27):
I think because we're.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
I think because we're older, we are we we are
so connected to the incredible character that Alan is as
a dad. But I think my actual favorite character of
the season is Eric. I mean, if I if I
take myself out of the fact that I want to
be Alan and I actually think of the episodes the

(01:07:51):
joy I mean, we didn't even touch on shallow Boy.

Speaker 6 (01:07:54):
You guys, I.

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
Don't like this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
I don't like it. What's show boy?

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
I just felt like that episode was like such a
I felt that it was there. Tony will totally ride
with you guys. I love it was all about I
was like, miss me with this again.

Speaker 7 (01:08:13):
That was was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Wonderful talking to to.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
Favorite.

Speaker 7 (01:08:22):
Okay, here's here's one each of you favorite episode of
the season.

Speaker 5 (01:08:26):
Here today Goon Tomorrow with B and B's B and
B being my second favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
Checklick me.

Speaker 7 (01:08:34):
And finally, what has been your favorite season of Bloy
Meets World so far?

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
He's in far I do want to give a shout
out to seasons scause it feels like a completely different
show by now. But if we go back and think
about how solid that was as a kids show, because
a different style of shows great, it's really hard to beat.
But yeah, but no, season four is so incredib.

Speaker 6 (01:09:00):
If they really do feel like two different shows.

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
I would if I had to, if I had to
like and we'll probably do this at the end when
we finish all seven seasons. I still stand by the
idea that season one might be the greatest single season
of any TV show.

Speaker 6 (01:09:17):
Every love it from Norman.

Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
Okay, maybe I have to qualify it by saying that
is a kid is the star up there you go,
because I can't find anything else that would even come
close to it.

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
Maybe, but I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:09:39):
But of this still even feeling that way, we are
really in our groove with season four.

Speaker 6 (01:09:45):
Season four was just phenomenal.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
You'd have to do a rewatch podcast in order to
figure it out.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
I've been thinking a lot about like, you know, I
guess we didn't ask you this time, like how are
we ruining the show? But it's it's occurred to me,
like we we exist in this weird, like this podcast
exists in this sort of weird like equivalent to the
grandfather paradox. Do you guys know this like time travel
paradox of Like right, it's like, well, it's the idea

(01:10:13):
that if you go back in time and kill your grandfather,
then you can't exist to have gone back in time
to kill your grandfather. So right, so when when we
because it's different than like you guys have your podcast
and you criticize the show or compliment or whatever, And
I think that's just great because it's like fans, when
we criticize the show we're in this, we're immediately putting

(01:10:34):
our listeners on defense in a way because it's like
we're cracking open this this potential that for us is
very obvious. You know that we were there, there, there
was there was once a different Topanga. Minkus was gonna
be there forever. You know, Eric could have had a
spin off. So like our our reality of this of
Boy Meets World is like a series of choices that

(01:10:57):
were made by by people like us and people we
knew like not God's not people following a script, but
like people writing a script, people rewriting a script on
a daily basis, in real time, you know, like creating
this work of art. And and so then we come
on to our podcast and we bring that potential with us,

(01:11:18):
and that's always going to just turn some people off, right, Like,
that's just going to be sacrilegious in a way, because
it's it's this weird, counterintuitive process. It's like, oh, I
liked Boy Meets World, so I'm going to go listen
to the actors talk about it. And then if those
actors are talking about the potential for to not be
the Boy meets World, I liked, why am I listening

(01:11:38):
to them talk about it?

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
That's that like grandfather paradox of like and I feel
like that can be uncomfortable, that can be disquieting for people,
and hopefully that's a good thing, like you know, hopefully
we can invite them along. But it's it's really weird.
It is a really process.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Cause that point. As I said earlier, I love that
you do that though, like for me, like I think
for a lot of people, you can't get enough of
the potential because we only have what exists. You do
want to know the ifs and the what if And
as I said earlier, like just understanding that, oh, a
certain budget is the reason why we got a swing set,

(01:12:14):
or why Turner is written out, or you know, all
of these things actually help with the show's inconsistencies because
hearing that, oh, it was this episode and there was
a meeting that happened, and therefore Michael doubled down and
was like, now this is what the show is about.
I'm like, okay, now I can get behind and all
of it sweeps right when we remind we were totally

(01:12:36):
forgot about sweeps, and we're like, they needed a big episode.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Let's make it at the Corey de Bank and you know,
it's like sweeps and now we can see it so clearly.

Speaker 7 (01:12:45):
Yeah, well, just to give you guys some hope. Season
five is pretty good too, so you know, like we
love season five. It's not as high as season four
for us, but there's some classic episodes in season five.
If you're a people to track down Candice, Cameron Beuer,
Linda Carlini, Jennifer love Hewittt to ask them about their

(01:13:07):
time on the show, that would be great. But we
would also love to see Trina McGee come back and
talk about Angel a.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Little bit more.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
That's A, Yeah, that's a that's a no brainer.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
Absolutely, we've been.

Speaker 6 (01:13:18):
Looking forward to having her come back.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Yeah, that's a given.

Speaker 5 (01:13:20):
So yeah, that will happen and we will start tracking
down those other people. We we may have one of
them already scheduled.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
Always love hearing that.

Speaker 5 (01:13:29):
Thank you guys so much for joining us at as always.
You always just help us. You know, think about the
season we've just recapped in a slightly different way. You
bring povs that we just don't have the ability to have.
You guys are so thoughtful and we just we truly
we enjoy every second we get to spend with you.
We love having you come and recap a season with us.
We look forward to doing it again for season five

(01:13:50):
and uh can't wait to see you guys again.

Speaker 6 (01:13:52):
We love you both.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Yeah, oh, thank you so much.

Speaker 7 (01:13:55):
We love you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:13:55):
Appreciate it yea, It's so fun, man.

Speaker 5 (01:14:01):
I know they're great, and you know, like I said,
I really mean it. I appreciate that they come in
and they've developed a relationship with us where they don't
hold back, they really tell us their honest thoughts on things,
and I'm just so appreciative of Then again, if you
haven't checked out their podcast. Their podcast is called Bruh
Meets World. They talk about Boy meets World with a
melanin point of view, so you could check them out.

(01:14:25):
As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets
World Show. You can send us your emails pod Meets
World Show at gmail dot com.

Speaker 6 (01:14:31):
And we have merch.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
March didn't seem like didn't seem like it's deserving of
a giant merch.

Speaker 5 (01:14:37):
The giant March merch Okay, pod Meets Worldshow dot com
will send us out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
We love you all, pod dismissed.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Pod Meets World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by
Danielle Fischel, Wilfordell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Karp
and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo,
producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie More engineer and
Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song
is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow
us on Instagram at Podmets World Show or email us

(01:15:08):
at Podmetsworldshow at gmail dot com. H

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Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Will Friedle

Danielle Fishel

Rider Strong

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