November 2, 2025 • 48 mins
He was there on day one and has seen it all! Louis van Amstel joins Danielle to talk about his history on Dancing with the Stars and what he thinks about its current resurgence.
Louis also takes us behind the scenes to the genesis of the franchise and while he doesn’t have a Mirrorball, he tells us which of his celebrity partners mean more to him than any trophy.
Plus, Danielle opens up about the difficult week she’s had going into Tuesday night’s show. It’s all on a brand new episode of Danielle With…
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's me Danielle Fischel, TV director, podcaster, mother of two,
and colloquially known as Tapega from the nineties family sitcom
Boy Meets World, but to almost seven million viewers and
counting every week. I am a competitor on season thirty
four of Dancing with the Stars, paired with my professional
(00:37):
pal Pasha Pashkov, And in addition to my transformation from
no prior dance experience to ballroom vet, I have been
recording this year podcast, keeping tabs on every single moment
along the way, hoping that the details of my journey
might make your Dancing with the Stars fandom even more enjoyable. Plus,
(00:57):
I have been joined by pro's former contestant and my
beloved competition in hopes that these interviews could double as
insider information to push me over the proverbial hump and
into the winner's circle, holding the mirror ball trophy well
above my head in the name of every listener. And
today I am joined by a man who was there
(01:18):
when it all started, a national champion gold medalist who
joined the show in season one and went on to
compete with a total of eleven partners, including Kelly Osborne
in season nine, where they made it to the finals
and placed third. He's been seen in the ballroom this season,
taking in the festivities, and I, for one felt just
(01:38):
a little more nervous knowing he was in attendance. And
with the twentieth birthday of the show just around the corner,
it would be impossible to imagine its early days without
my guest. And now I'm honored to say it. It's
Danielle with Louis van Amstell.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Hi, Danielle, Hi, how are you there? You are? Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Nice to meet you? I didn't meet you. I saw Pasha, yes,
and two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, so I know I saw that you were there.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
But after the fact, I think we may have passed
each other very quickly in the breezeway when I was
either on my way to warm up or getting one
of those many last minute hair and makeup touch ups.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You get yes, and I know how important that is.
So I do this and I do not. Yeah, I
don't want to disturb anyone, whether it's my partner on
the show. It's that that me time, you know, when
you have to get ready and get into game game mode, game.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Base exactly game face mode, and there's not much time
and it all depends on where you fall in the
show and how you know.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Are you last, are you first?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Are you right in the middle. It's it's a it's
a lot. And I wanted to talk with you because
you bring such a unique POV considering you were there
from season one. When do you remember getting the pitch
for Dancing with the Stars and did it sound in
saying to you what was your first thought when you
heard about it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
It's interesting you asked me this question because even though
it's twenty years ago, it feels like yesterday and I
remember every single detail. So Dance with the Stars is
based on Strictly Come Dancing, which is Dance with the
Stars version in England, and when they successfully brought it
back on TV, I guess the producers asked the British professionals,
(03:26):
who do you know in the United States. Well, I'm
from Amsterdam, I'm from Holland my partner was British Julie Fryer.
So we were actually on the original Come Dancing when
it was counties against each other and then England against Europe.
So we danced on the original version before it quit
in the late nineties anyway. So then one of the
(03:49):
producers called me while I was teaching in New York
City and if I was interested in being part of
the show that ABC was willing to test out of
a show about bareroom dancing. They weren't sure, and I
didn't think twice. Growing up in theater, I was already
retired from competing, and I just had done my Broadway
(04:12):
show in two thousand and two at City Center. So
when they said do you want to be part of it? Yes,
I want to, I didn't have to think twice. No, Wow,
I did not question it. I did. I also thought
it was the golden opportunity for ballroom dancing UH to
(04:33):
be put in the limelight, and that it was interesting
because then of course they asked me who do you know. Well,
I was coaching Alec Mazo and edits Lavinska at the time,
so of course I asked them. And then after they
hired Alec Mazo, a Ukrainian edit, tes Lawns Cut Polish,
(04:55):
myself Dutch, Sharlot to Jurgensen Danish, and then John Roberts American.
So then they called me back, Joe Sunkert, do you
we won an all American, I get it immigrants. So
I was teaching at the famous Center Stage in orem
Utah where all the Utah dances are from. Yeah, and
(05:16):
he was asking me. I picked up the phone while
I was teaching, and Ashley del Grosso, who was the
final lady joining season one, she was in the other room.
So I said, Joe, hold on. So I walked to
the room. I said, here, pick up the phone and
make sure you say yes wow. And so that's how
that happened. Yeah, just put my phone in Ashley's hands
(05:39):
and she talked to Joe and she did audition and
she made it on the show.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So you're basically responsible for the entire pro cast of
season one.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Well, I wouldn't say the entire cast. It was more
you know John Roberts, who I did work with as
a coach. He was approached, I guess through another producer
and Charlotte Jurgenson, who I competed with in Europe at
World Championships. So it was fun for all of us
(06:11):
to be in a different medium because competition scene or
theater is still different than live TV. But we loved it. Yeah,
and then I got Julian Hoff and Derek Houff on
the show and a few more. But for me, you know,
I'm the old one of the bunch. I coached most
(06:31):
of them that are now on. So for me, it's
about getting the best dancers that are appropriate for the show.
So if you look at Jenna Johnson, you look at Lindsay, Arnold, Winsey,
Whitney Carson, these are all cross Ray dancers Ezra cross
Train Brandon and I know them since they were That
(06:51):
makes me really old them all since they were eight,
nine and ten years old because I was teaching them
at center Stage. It's just wonderful to see they never
decided to go into the ballroom Ballroom World Championships, but
instead they have an amazing career on TV.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So yeah, I ain't mad about it exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I mean, it's really smart and it was forward thinking
of you as someone who had competed in Blackpool, had
three Latin Dance Champion gold medals and a US National
Championship with a partner that you knew I sure have. Well,
you knew they that it was a chance to celebrate
ballroom dancing instead of having fear that it was going
(07:36):
to be something that made a mockery of it. Is
that how they presented it to you or did you
just know that this was going to be a shining
opportunity for ballroom dance?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
In my heart, I knew that this was going to
be a success because of having done a Broadway show
of my own in two thousand and two when we
had no TV, no ballroom dancing in the limelight, and
I knew because of the enthusiasm from that audience that
the public will like this. And so many people, not
(08:08):
just in the eighteen thirty eight, eighteen to thirty nine,
but also the older generation. How many of them did
ballroom dancing when they grew up, the katillion, all that,
and that's what Danced with the Stars represents twenty years in.
It still represents that romance, the sassiness, and you know
(08:30):
a little bit more nodding.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
You know, a little bit of drama, a little.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Bit of everything. Yes, yeah, so I think it's I
never questioned it. And also when they asked me do
you know more dancers? I was right away thinking these
have to be the right dancers, not the best dancers. Now,
now having said that, when you take a Valsh Mukofsky,
who I coached as well, he could have easily been
world champion. He was world champion in junior. He could
(08:58):
have taken every single title titled. Derek Huff could be
world champion. He was youth champion. I was actually there
when he became world champion in youth. These dancers are
not only the right dancers for the show, they're also
the best dancers. I mean, they're so well trained, and
(09:18):
I'm proud to say that I was part of that
before Dance with the Stars as their coach.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Do you remember a specific moment, maybe it was even
during season one where you felt like, whoa, this is working.
It's all it's gonna go. This show is going to
be a massive success, the show itself.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yes, I was so happy to hear that. Everyone was
so nervous that first one. Danielle, you guys are nervous
coming down those stairs.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
But season one, week one, everyone ABC, the show run
at Conrad Green, Dina. Everyone was so nervous because this
is the first time. And then we had thirteen point
five million viewers and they couldn't be happier. And that
was the summer show. So I knew then it's a hit. However,
(10:12):
I've never won this show, but I think I deserve
a trophy because stress the ctter and I were the
first ever eliminated couple in season one. Don't you think
that deserves something?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You know what I do? I think what's the opposite
of a mirror ball?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
The well turn it outside of second? It's yeah. I
learned a lot that first season. Oh my gosh. I
learned a lot because I came in and not to
brag or anything, but just to give you and your
viewers perspective. I came in from coaching, coaching people like
(10:49):
Jenna Johnson, Welshikovsky, Max Murkowsky, and then I went in
with that coaching attitude in dense with the stars, Oh
my gosh, I looked like and I mean, I'm not
going to say the capital A because we strect yes.
And then on top I had long hair in a ponytail,
I have these cheek pumps. It looks oh my gosh,
(11:11):
I look so dang arrogant. And then in the package, yeah,
I'm a three time world champion, and oh my gosh.
It was a very humbling experience, and season two was
amazing because of the learning lessons from season one.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I see, do you was that attitude that you had
in season one? Was that something that is that what
you were like as a coach generally or was it
something put on for the TV show?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well that's that's a two first. So the first portion
is that for me, if you tell me you want
to be a champion, national or world champion, then I'm
going to treat you as such, not in being nasty,
but okay, here are the goals, and I'm going to
hold you accountable. But that's with the stars. I mean you, guys,
(12:04):
I mean I respect you so much. You put yourself
out there. You're a working actress, you can control your work,
and here you are putting yourself on the chopping block potentially,
and so I respect every and all celebrity for doing that.
But for me as a coach, I realized, wait a minute,
(12:26):
Wait a minute, wait a minute, this is not your
bread and butter, and this is your hobby. Now in
a way, it is your bread and butter because you
put yourself out there as a celebrity. And but I
was never I don't think I'm arrogant. It's just I
hold you accountable. But then the way the questions are asked,
(12:46):
you know, when you have your Thursday interviews. You have
to be mindful on how you say it because everything
can and will be used against you. And that's not
on the producers. That's on us to be mindful on
you know, what you say in terms of in terms
of the bad Boys status. I think they tried, and
(13:11):
then you know, Max came on board in season three,
and I guess he took the role. But I don't
want to play a role. I've always said I'm a
chameleon as a coach, as a teacher, as a dancer,
Expect the unexpected. I've said it in so many interviews
because I, for example, if you and I were parted,
I don't know you, so maybe I have one approach. Well,
(13:33):
then that approach doesn't work, Okay, a different approach. Maybe
you're a visual learner, audio learner. Maybe you're just slow
in picking up, so the first three days take it
a easier and then when I see you pick it up, boom.
Then we're going to spend the hours on really diving deep.
And others say, let me give me, give me everything
on that first day and then slow down towards the
(13:53):
end of the week. So they tried, and I think
that's part of the reason I'm being really for that
off not being in all seasons, because that was never
my choice, not to be real, I just don't like
being put in a box. I don't like labels. So
I also don't want to be called the gay dancer
or the I am me. There's so many more sides
(14:16):
to me, and so yeah, I you expect the unexpected.
That's really my coaching philosophy because I don't know who
I am partnered with totally.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
We interviewed Max as well, and Max said something similar
about coming onto the show, and he said, you know,
when I joined the show, I was told your goal
was to get this celebrity to be a trained dancer,
and he said, and so I came in very much
with like, if you want to be a star dancer,
you're going to have to do all of these things.
(14:51):
And he said, and then of course, over time you realize,
like these celebrities, it's impossible for them to become in
ten weeks eleven weeks. You can't possibly learn all the
things you need to learn. And he said, you know,
so I realized that maybe my approach wasn't working and
that that really wasn't the hook of the show. So
it's interesting to hear you say something similar that, Like,
(15:12):
you know, they told me I was taking a celebrity
and wanted to make them a national champion.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Well, of course I have to hold you accountable to that.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, And of course, again it depends on the celebrity.
I can give you two examples. In season nine, I
had Kelly Osborne. Yeah, no dance experience. There was a
lot of baggage, emotional baggage that we had to go through.
So that was one step at a time, very slow going,
and she made the final. So it doesn't mean you
(15:43):
can't make the final when you're a non dancer, but
you have to approach it differently from a dancer. And
when we lose our patients, you can hold all the
pros accountable because that's on us because a good coach
never loses their cool. You can be frustrated, but you
cannot lose your patients. It's not well, you're not getting it.
You're not getting it. Well, that means us as pros,
(16:04):
we have to dig deeper, change our strategy until you
get that hook where your celebrity really feels oh, I'm growing.
And then in the All Star season I had Sabrina Brian,
I had that season the best dancer of the season,
but hip hop trained cheerleading, everything is slice and dice,
bam boom, and I love Sabrina, so it was my
(16:27):
goal in that one. I put on my coach's head
and I said, and this was also discussed with Sabrina, look,
you are the best dancers that can backfire. It did
in season six with marks Week six, three tenths voted off,
and she was willing to go do the work, but
I made her go for that lowering and the heat
(16:48):
leads and the posture up and the chest up and
you know all about it now.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I do.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I do, And I never expected to love it nearly
as much as I do. I just it's shocking to me. Well,
thank you, I do. I just love it so much.
And you, as a quok well hearing what you have
to say about what it means to be a good coach.
All I can picture in my head is my dear Pasha,
who is every single day consistent. There's never a day
(17:19):
where I have to wonder what kind of a mood
he's going to be in, or adjust what how I'm
feeling or doing based on something that's going on with him.
He is a total professional. He is always committed, he's
always prepared, he's always ready to work. He doesn't He
gives me space to have my feelings about something, but
(17:41):
he's never He's very quick to just sit there and
let me have the experience and then go, Okay, it's
time to get back on now. He's the most patient
human being. I mean, maybe I've ever met in my
entire life. I can't imagine having been partnered with anybody else.
So I really feel like I lucked out the season.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
You Hit the Jackpot. Now, as I mentioned earlier, I
know every single pro dancer on the show, probably eighty percent.
I was the coach growing up, so I have to
preface that I like most and love a few. I mean,
like there's no tomorrow. I never actually worked with Pasha
(18:23):
or Danielle, but I've seen him grow up. And they
are not just Pasha but also Danielle, the most grounded couple.
And they've been on the show now for many seasons
and it hasn't changed them as humans. But also where
You hit the Jackpot, Pasha is had to always get
(18:44):
it from hard work, and Danielle that is such a
natural gifted, naturally gifted beast, I mean, and everyone can
see it. And he just worked, worked, worked, And also
they did ten dance, so they're especially Pasha. He's equal
(19:05):
in the standard ballroom dances as he's in the Latin dances.
And on top, he taught a lot of proem which
is an amateur dancing with the pro such as Pasha,
they compete. He has a lot of teaching experience too,
So you hit the jackpot on the kindness as a human,
but also has a lot of different ways on how
he can approach that. He is successful with you and
(19:28):
I just for me, kindness is number one. If you're
a kind human being and you are grounded, then you
have my respect. And if you are on top a
great dancer and teacher, then you've made it. And these
two are wonderful.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
People couldn't agree with you more. I know.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Oh, you have been watching this season both on TV
and you've been in the ballroom, and there has been
a lot of talked about that this season is a
stacked cast. It's become a large part of the discourse
on surrounding the show. Considering you were there for its genesis,
what are your thoughts on the conceit of dancing with
the stars and celebrities who have prior dance experience.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, especially in the early years, I was really frustrated
when half the cast had dance experience and we are
the ones, as the pros, that have the non dancers.
But then I grew to like it more because for me,
if you have a non dancer, that means that celebrity
(20:50):
represents the majority of the viewers watching. Yeah, and they
live vicariously through that celebrity. And that's why people like
a Kelly Osborn, Bobby Bones and directed this season, they
make it far because they just move slightly. But also
we had conversations. I've had conversations with Dina Katz, executive
(21:14):
director and casting director, like, hey, why can we not
do a season with all non dancers? Well, what would
the show look like visually? And there you got me
as a producer myself, I had to yeah, thank you
for explaining. And it wasn't really like why are you
doing this to me? No, it was more sincerely wanting
(21:36):
to know why why did they do that? And I
get it. And also again Andy Rictor, and there were
quite a few dancers, if not every single one that
have gone home already are better dances than Andy, And
somehow the people at home keep voting him, and even
the judges give him low scores. So it's not that
(21:57):
the judges are helping him either. It's really it's really
the people at home they're voting. And then there's the
other question that comes from here, Well, we shouldn't have
the people at home voting because look, otherwise, hey and
you would have been mong gone home. Yeah, but then
we wouldn't have a show on TV. Yeah, it's all
about ratings and voting, and you just you are in
(22:19):
the season that really has come back so strong, over
fifty five million votes, yeah, number one showing it on TV.
I mean, so I hope that the viewers understand that
it's hard to just have non dancers celebrities or do
a season with all dancing celebrities. Would it be fun
(22:41):
if Jennifer Gray would come back, Nicole Scherzinger, Bindy Irwin,
maybe get Paul Abdul. Wouldn't that be a fun season?
But they won't do it. I don't think they will
do it. But anyway, there's a fantastic season, and it's
the diversity that makes it special.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right, That's exactly what it is, the dichotomy of watching
Andy Richter versus watching Whitney Levitt and being impressed with both,
you know, for different reasons. Like with it's nice in
one night to be able to run the full gamut
and just to vote on what it is that makes
(23:18):
you happy. I thought it was really smart when Andy
said that a producer told him that they ask you
to vote for your favorite dance, not the best dance.
And so you know, that is the joy of America.
Having a vote is who do you want to see
more from? It doesn't have to be the best, It
just means who do you want to see again? And
(23:40):
that's where they have a lot of power.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Two things on that one I really want to share
so on so you think you can dance? Season one
one Fox, that was to find the best dancer, and
that was the MC was constantly the best dancer. They
changed it in season two, We're looking for your faith
a dancer, same thing because they realized, oh, the judges
(24:04):
choose one to be the best, but then the audience
chooses another because it's their favorite and not the best dancer.
And it's and also, to quote a famous hockey coach,
and he said, I am not looking for the best players.
I'm looking for the right players. And to me, that
(24:25):
is kind of similar. We're not looking for the best
dancer to win the show. We're looking for the favorite,
and hopefully the best dancer is also the favorite.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You know, wow, yep, but well you know there.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It is.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
As looking back on your time on the show, if
you had to select one of your famous partners to
say this is the one you'd make a highlight reel of,
regardless of where you placed, who would you say is
your highlight reel partner?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Easy? Kelly Osborne season nine really underdog. She was the
sea best kit. She was the one that I think,
just on paper, she was going to be the first
one going home. Yeah, and what I find and I'm
not I always get emotional when I talk about Kelly
(25:22):
because it was even though it was two thousand and nine,
that journey has not only affected her or maybe changed
her life, it has changed mind. I started building my confidence.
I know I'm a good teacher. I know I'm a
good coach. I mean, heck, I coached many of the
ones on the show. But it's it's that's the world
(25:46):
I'm in this is TV to affect and help someone
in front of millions and then for her to really
listen to what you have to say. And we also
had arguments. There were I mean, she danced in a
broken toe, her dog died during the show, and I
mean there were so many things that we had to
deal with. And then to be in the final because
(26:09):
of the audience, not because of the judges. The judges
score were always kind of lower and lower, and to
see her blossom and even now looking at her, even
after the show, there were ups and downs with her,
even in the press you could read it. But in
the long run, it's how she dealt with it and
(26:31):
how she's dealing with it. And now she's engaged, she
has a baby of her own which is growing up.
I mean quickly that that will be probably the most
trends formative partnership I think has ever been on the show.
And I am proud to have been her partner. And
(26:52):
that almost didn't happen because I believe, and if you
have Mark after me, I think originally Kelly was partnered
with Mark ballas with Mikey, and I believe not that
she said, look, I'm engaged to another guy. She's not
(27:12):
engaged with the same guy. Now, yeah, she wants someone gay,
she wants safety, that there would be no kind of well,
I don't know. I think maybe if you're married and
you're doing the show, would you maybe you know, feel
the same way that you kind of want to either
(27:33):
be safe or be with another married pro that's on
the show. You know it's but anyway, so it almost
didn't happen, and it did happen, and yeah, that was
the most memorable I believe.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
For me, I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I love that even just to see you get emotional
talking about it, because I I feel as though the
show has been completely transformative for me as well, and
so has Pasha and Daniella in my life. So i'm
i'm it's it's always nice when I see that those
feelings are very real and you're still close and it's
(28:10):
not just something that's only going to last for the
you know, eleven weeks the show goes on, that it
really does actually change your life in the way it
feel like it feels as of right now like it has.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
It's it's it's wonderful And for the viewers, how many
of you as celebrities say this has changed my life,
and then a lot of people probably roll their eyes. Yeah,
of course you're saying that. No, it's true. It has
also changed our lives as prod answers, the opportunities we've gotten.
And besides maybe two celebrities of my eleven I am
(28:47):
still in contact with and I'm still friends with, It's
not a lot because I don't live in La, so
it's it's a little different. But when I'm in La
for still, op Pressley and I will always dinner. Lisa
and I Rena we talked back and forth and or
we like each other's posts, and also you might become
(29:08):
friends with other pro dancers that are not for sure
or other celebrities on our side. It's it's really wonderful
what this show has done, had what it can mean
to people watching.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You had a lot of close calls, although you've never
won a Mirror Ball like my partner Pasha.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Lisa.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Renna came in third, Monique Coleman and fourth, Nissi Nash
in fifth.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Was there anyone in.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Particular that you were partnered with other than Kelly who,
of course you made it to the final with But
was there another partner that you thought I can I'm
gonna win with this one.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
All Star season, Yeah, Sam Bryan. I also wanted for
her to break the week six Furst elimination from season.
I think it was with Mark, and then ironically we
got eliminated week six.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I know.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And this is a message especially for your fans and
whoever's favorite is still in vote, vote vote, because in
week five we had three tents with our Cinderella Disney
Night walls. Then week six we had three tents with
(30:28):
our rumba and we had I believe three tents with
our group dance. So we went out on with sixty
out of sixty. And people think you're safe when you
get tens, you're safe. You are not safe. You're not safe.
And I hate to say that because I really I
(30:51):
mean Andy, it just looks such like such a nice guy.
But say you get high scores and people think, oh,
you you're safe because you get these high scores. No,
because a person like Andy gets so many votes that
even a lower scores can mean you're going home. So
(31:11):
make sure you vote, ladies and gentlemen, vote, vote, vote.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I know that is I interviewed Sabrina at the very
start of this podcast, and I asked her that question.
I was just straight up, I said, do you think
the reason you went home is because people saw those
high scores and just assumed that you were safe. Because
it's it's really the only explanation is that people go, oh,
I don't need to worry about her, but these other
people with lower scores, I need to boost them up
(31:36):
and then low and behold you don't get any votes.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
No, no, it's it's true. It's really people need to vote,
and I think the message is clear and people are voting.
I mean, fifty five million votes, it's.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
A lot of votes.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yes, looking back on all your seasons, do you have
any idea thoughts on specific strategy to win, whether it's
how you arrange when you do which dance or song choices.
What are some of the strategies to winning as you
see it now?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
All of the above I was missed a strategy. And
also when you have a non dancing celebrity, you have
to be very strategic in every decision but one. And
this is where being a veteran in this business helps.
For example, music, so many younger pros and maybe now
(32:36):
they've learned a lesson, they would find music maybe a
week two weeks before the show, and then if the
song that they really want is already chosen, but someone else,
I'm sorry, so and so already chosen. So I would
have one hundred and fifty songs on a list divided
by dances discussed with my celebrity first day. Now what
(33:00):
they're doing is you are now getting a package to
fill out. So now the show doesn't But in the
early years it was on us, and so I would
make sure that yeah, no, already already asked for it. Oh,
already asked for it. Oh. And of course then when
I'm eliminated, they would have a lot of songs for
others to use, but I didn't at first it would
(33:21):
frustrate me. But at least with the strategy of music,
we mostly had the songs we wanted because I put
in the effort. So that's that's one thing. And when
it comes to the dances in close hold, like quick
step in tango, the rules are being bent very much
by the younger pros, and the judges don't always call
(33:43):
it out, which to mean they need to be how
the accountable. You're allowed ten seconds in open hold in
the beginning and at the end with tangoing quick steps.
So I want these dances out of the way as
early as possible. Get it out of the way. So
later in the season, you want to the dances where
you can lift. You want to have the dances that
are more exuberant, like the or the give the higher
(34:05):
energy or the heartfelt dances. But also depends on who.
How is my celebrity perceived. If she is perceived as
more hardcore, then I need to work on the softer side.
So I want to have those dances later in the season.
So I was glad with Kelly. I kept Rumba for
(34:26):
as late as possible and then really show the heartfelt side,
the heart strings, play on the heart strings. So I mean,
I could. There are so many more strategies, but the
dances get us boring dances that you have to stay
close holds out of the way.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Really smart, really super smart?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Well you know, I think.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So are you looking forward to the twentieth anniversary show?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Will you be in the audience again?
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh? I will be in the audience. I cannot wait.
It's you know, I've done eleventh season out of thirty
four and I think of one of the pros that
have come back over time and coming back again. I
did three years ago I was back on the show,
So I've kind of been part of every single change
(35:22):
or with a new or a different showrunner, or they
went into a different direction and then it came back.
So I've been part of that show with the whole
rollercoaster of all thirty four seasons, and it's so wonderful
to see after twenty years, thirty four seasons, the show
is back number one, the most votes ever and so Danielle,
(35:45):
I thank you and your fellow celebrities for bringing it
back to where it is right now, because it's ultimately
the celebrities that are on the show that are bringing
back the viewers time and time again. So thank you.
It's it's exciting because you've made it so far. You
(36:06):
have nothing to lose, so you can take the nerves
and give up, or you take the nurse the nerves
and switch on, use the adrenaline and say, people at
home watch this, and it's you have nothing to lose
(36:30):
every time you make it past week five. In my opinion,
as a person that does not have a lot of
dance experience, but a lot of acting experience. You've done
your job, you're going for honors. Now you're going through cumblaude.
So whatever they throw at you, enjoy it and see
it as they come on. Bring it on, bring it on.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I really love that advice.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I have been I'm just going to full transparency. I've
really been struggling this week. We had our we have
our team down. I'm a team captain and the team
dance is amazing. I picked, if I have to, if
I do say so myself, I picked an all star
team and it didn't come randomly. I had a full
(37:14):
strategy going into it, and my strategy paid off and
I was thrilled with my choices. But my choices were
such that I am by far the weakest at least
female link on the team, which is never fun to
feel like, Okay, everybody's picking this up so fast, and
(37:35):
I really need this to slow down.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah, you've got to let it go because you're You're
not the weakest link. You are the person that came
in with the least amount of dance experience, so the
pressure is on them, not you. Okay, everyone knows you
have grown from week one to now leaps and bounds.
(37:59):
You have the likability factor and you have no problem
with the character of the dance. Focus regardless of who
is in your team. What can you control. The only
thing you can control is your movements, the involvement in
the movement, listening to the music and do your part.
That's what you can control. You can control Oh, how
(38:22):
the judges look at you, or what the comments they're making. Oh,
oh gosh, you it's we can go psycho when you
listen to everything and everyone reads social media, or even
the looks of the other dances in your team, horse
caps on. Focus on you and Pasha and your work.
That's all you can do.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I would like to ask you have you have you
seen all of my dances? And if so, even if
you haven't, what if you could give me one piece
of advice moving forward? What would you say to me
and how I can improve and how I can do
better next week and for as long as I'm able
to remain on the show.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
So I have seen them all, okay, And I was
wondering if you were going to ask me this question,
And like I said, I kind of already fed into
it a little bit earlier. You have the likability factor.
You could clearly tell you an actress, so you can
like a chameleon, you step into these different dances. If I,
(39:39):
like I said, you're you've come so far already. It's
like an onion that you peel off every single week
and you show a little bit more of yourself. I
would say, rip off all the layers that are left.
It's like when you have your hair ted Lewis, take
(40:01):
off your throw that lose and right. It's the emotional self,
your personal emotional self. I feel hell is held back. Yeah,
because you're a kind person. You're a person and we
haven't met, but it resonates. You can tell through the
screen you're a kind person the relationship you have with
with Pasha. But I would say, f kind, go for it.
(40:27):
And if you question if you could make the final
or not, or you could win the show, everyone that's
still in can win. So you focus on the work.
You focus on what dance do you have this week? Person,
temporary contemporary, take off all these layers and go raw, raw, raw,
(40:50):
don't go in well maybe people won't like this or
oh well maybe this might screw up. Or that lift
that's coming, Oh my gosh, that lift, yeah, commit, commit,
commit to the work, okay, and if there's any doubts,
talk about it with Pasha. Whatever doubt there is, talk,
But for me, you you've earned the spot and you can.
(41:14):
You deserve to be in that finalist as much as
every other one, because you came with much less dance
experience maybe.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Zero, yeah zero, I think I danced at my wedding last.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
There you go, so remind yourself of that. You have
to tell yourself too, look at what I've done in
eight weeks time.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Well, the others have had dance training four years and
you can tell, you can tell, and and you know. Therefore,
take out all the stops and commit, commit, commit.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I appreciate your advice more than you know. It's been.
It's been my work for this week. It's been exactly
what Pasha has been saying to me too. So the
fact that I have two of you who I consider
to be absolute legends and the world does as well,
I know that you are right, and so I will
be thinking of you today in my rehearsal. I'm going
(42:10):
to try and peel back all those layers of the
onion and be my emotional raw self. I do have
a perfect song for it, a perfect story we're telling
through it, So this is the week to do it.
If I'm ever going to do it, this is.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
The week may ask what is the song in the story?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We are doing dream On by Aerosmith because it's Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame Week and dream On is
one of my all time favorite songs. It's also one
of Pasha's all time favorite songs. And the story that
I'm talking about, which is ultimately why I think this
week has been difficult for me, is we are telling
(42:46):
the story about how difficult it can be to be
a woman in society, where we are somehow always too
much and also never enough, no matter what choice you may,
whether it's working outside the home or working inside the home,
if you choose to work outside, you're selfish and your
children need you and where's their mother? And if you
(43:07):
work inside the home, then you are boring and you
don't have interests. And if you get botox and fillers,
then you're not aging gracefully. And if you age gracefully,
then you look old and ugly. And if you are
too thin, you're told to eat a burger, and if
you gain weight, you're told to get off the couch,
and there's just really it feels like there's no winning.
And having been in the public eye and on TV
(43:28):
since I was ten years old, I have been, you know,
under a microscope, and my choices have been scrutinized, and
I've made terrible mistakes, and you know, there's a lot,
there's a lot there. And the story is kind of
about how you can quiet the outside noise and dream
your own dreams and live life to the fullest, use
(43:50):
that negativity maybe to rise above, because you never know
when you're going to dance your last dance or have
your last day.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
And so that's the story.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
And it has been a difficult week for me because
I have been really resistant to the dance I've been
and have been blaming it on things like I'm not
good at it, or I don't like this move, or
like I've just been really resistant. And then it hit
me yesterday after having a really bad rehearsal, and of
course it's no fault of Pasha's.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Pasha is the same he is every day. I was
just in a really down.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Place and it just hit me last night that like,
I'm resistant to it because it's it's triggering so many
things in me. It's triggering a lot of negative self talk,
it's triggering disordered eating. It's like triggering all of these
things that are so personal, and instead of me leaning
(44:43):
into it and embracing that in the dance, it's making
me not want to do it. So it's been a
rough week, but I think like the fact that I
realized it made me wake up today and think one
so happy to be talking to you and for you
to have given me the advice you gave, because it
really lands and resonates. And also just you know, it's
(45:05):
very clear that this is striking an emotional chord for
me and there's a reason for that, and this dance
is actually special and means something.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
So thank you for sharing, Danielle, And this is a beautiful,
heartfelt moment for you and just having this conversation. This
is why I loved or loved doing Dancing with the Stars.
This is where friendships are born in these moments. And
(45:38):
you have been on TV since the age of ten.
You have kids, right, so your mom, your a wife
who can say in there whatever age you are, yeah,
have your success and so let these triggers be the
reasons why you are peel that onion and in a
(46:01):
metaphorical way, on Monday, jump off that cliff, Yeah, and
fly sore, live it take And when I said take
the health, throw it now, when you said.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You have that song, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
There are moments where you just I mean dream on
dream and you have dreamed, but you also have made
a reality. So it's kind of nostalgic that all these
triggers from the past. Yeah, Tuesday is going to be
your your biggest therapy session exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
That is what it's like.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
You for you, and the world happens to have a seat, yeah,
to watch you experience that. And this is to me
why Dance It with the Stars is still on the
air after twenty years because of your frankness, uronness of
just sharing this for I don't know how many people
(47:00):
click in, but it's millions. Yeah, and you have no
problem showing you the raw, Danielle. So on Tuesday, you
know what to do.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yes, thank you, thank you, I am This conversation has
meant so much to me and you are just a
true legend, and I thank you so much for spending
your time. I can't wait to see you next week.
And I'm gonna I'm gonna take your advice on Tuesday,
and I will truly, I'll be thinking of you on
(47:32):
Tuesday when when it goes the way I hope it goes,
I will have in the back of my mind, thank you, Louis.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And you have each other, you have Pasha, but ultimately
trust you. Yeah, and you You're gonna do fantastic raw.
The raw Danielle is coming out on Tuesday. Thank you
for having me. I really enjoy doing this and you've
done amazing this season. And I can wait to watch
Tuesday night.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yes, and we have to make a point to actually
meet next week.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
I need to.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I will not.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I will not rest until I have been able to
give you a hug.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
I promise I will come find you. Okay, Thanks, Thank you, Danielle,
and then joy rehearsal later.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Thank you. I will Bye.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Danielle with the Stars Produced and hosted by Danielle Fischl.
Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge
of production, Danielle Romo, producer, editor and engineer Tara Sudbosch.
Theme song by Justin Siegel. Follow us on Instagram at
Danielle with Stars and vote for me
Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's me Danielle Fischel, TV director, podcaster, mother of two,
and colloquially known as Tapega from the nineties family sitcom
Boy Meets World, but to almost seven million viewers and
counting every week. I am a competitor on season thirty
four of Dancing with the Stars, paired with my professional
(00:37):
pal Pasha Pashkov, And in addition to my transformation from
no prior dance experience to ballroom vet, I have been
recording this year podcast, keeping tabs on every single moment
along the way, hoping that the details of my journey
might make your Dancing with the Stars fandom even more enjoyable. Plus,
(00:57):
I have been joined by pro's former contestant and my
beloved competition in hopes that these interviews could double as
insider information to push me over the proverbial hump and
into the winner's circle, holding the mirror ball trophy well
above my head in the name of every listener. And
today I am joined by a man who was there
(01:18):
when it all started, a national champion gold medalist who
joined the show in season one and went on to
compete with a total of eleven partners, including Kelly Osborne
in season nine, where they made it to the finals
and placed third. He's been seen in the ballroom this season,
taking in the festivities, and I, for one felt just
(01:38):
a little more nervous knowing he was in attendance. And
with the twentieth birthday of the show just around the corner,
it would be impossible to imagine its early days without
my guest. And now I'm honored to say it. It's
Danielle with Louis van Amstell.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Hi, Danielle, Hi, how are you there? You are? Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Nice to meet you? I didn't meet you. I saw Pasha, yes,
and two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, so I know I saw that you were there.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
But after the fact, I think we may have passed
each other very quickly in the breezeway when I was
either on my way to warm up or getting one
of those many last minute hair and makeup touch ups.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You get yes, and I know how important that is.
So I do this and I do not. Yeah, I
don't want to disturb anyone, whether it's my partner on
the show. It's that that me time, you know, when
you have to get ready and get into game game mode, game.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Base exactly game face mode, and there's not much time
and it all depends on where you fall in the
show and how you know.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Are you last, are you first?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Are you right in the middle. It's it's a it's
a lot. And I wanted to talk with you because
you bring such a unique POV considering you were there
from season one. When do you remember getting the pitch
for Dancing with the Stars and did it sound in
saying to you what was your first thought when you
heard about it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
It's interesting you asked me this question because even though
it's twenty years ago, it feels like yesterday and I
remember every single detail. So Dance with the Stars is
based on Strictly Come Dancing, which is Dance with the
Stars version in England, and when they successfully brought it
back on TV, I guess the producers asked the British professionals,
(03:26):
who do you know in the United States. Well, I'm
from Amsterdam, I'm from Holland my partner was British Julie Fryer.
So we were actually on the original Come Dancing when
it was counties against each other and then England against Europe.
So we danced on the original version before it quit
in the late nineties anyway. So then one of the
(03:49):
producers called me while I was teaching in New York
City and if I was interested in being part of
the show that ABC was willing to test out of
a show about bareroom dancing. They weren't sure, and I
didn't think twice. Growing up in theater, I was already
retired from competing, and I just had done my Broadway
(04:12):
show in two thousand and two at City Center. So
when they said do you want to be part of it? Yes,
I want to, I didn't have to think twice. No, Wow,
I did not question it. I did. I also thought
it was the golden opportunity for ballroom dancing UH to
(04:33):
be put in the limelight, and that it was interesting
because then of course they asked me who do you know. Well,
I was coaching Alec Mazo and edits Lavinska at the time,
so of course I asked them. And then after they
hired Alec Mazo, a Ukrainian edit, tes Lawns Cut Polish,
(04:55):
myself Dutch, Sharlot to Jurgensen Danish, and then John Roberts American.
So then they called me back, Joe Sunkert, do you
we won an all American, I get it immigrants. So
I was teaching at the famous Center Stage in orem
Utah where all the Utah dances are from. Yeah, and
(05:16):
he was asking me. I picked up the phone while
I was teaching, and Ashley del Grosso, who was the
final lady joining season one, she was in the other room.
So I said, Joe, hold on. So I walked to
the room. I said, here, pick up the phone and
make sure you say yes wow. And so that's how
that happened. Yeah, just put my phone in Ashley's hands
(05:39):
and she talked to Joe and she did audition and
she made it on the show.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So you're basically responsible for the entire pro cast of
season one.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Well, I wouldn't say the entire cast. It was more
you know John Roberts, who I did work with as
a coach. He was approached, I guess through another producer
and Charlotte Jurgenson, who I competed with in Europe at
World Championships. So it was fun for all of us
(06:11):
to be in a different medium because competition scene or
theater is still different than live TV. But we loved it. Yeah,
and then I got Julian Hoff and Derek Houff on
the show and a few more. But for me, you know,
I'm the old one of the bunch. I coached most
(06:31):
of them that are now on. So for me, it's
about getting the best dancers that are appropriate for the show.
So if you look at Jenna Johnson, you look at Lindsay, Arnold, Winsey,
Whitney Carson, these are all cross Ray dancers Ezra cross
Train Brandon and I know them since they were That
(06:51):
makes me really old them all since they were eight,
nine and ten years old because I was teaching them
at center Stage. It's just wonderful to see they never
decided to go into the ballroom Ballroom World Championships, but
instead they have an amazing career on TV.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So yeah, I ain't mad about it exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I mean, it's really smart and it was forward thinking
of you as someone who had competed in Blackpool, had
three Latin Dance Champion gold medals and a US National
Championship with a partner that you knew I sure have. Well,
you knew they that it was a chance to celebrate
ballroom dancing instead of having fear that it was going
(07:36):
to be something that made a mockery of it. Is
that how they presented it to you or did you
just know that this was going to be a shining
opportunity for ballroom dance?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
In my heart, I knew that this was going to
be a success because of having done a Broadway show
of my own in two thousand and two when we
had no TV, no ballroom dancing in the limelight, and
I knew because of the enthusiasm from that audience that
the public will like this. And so many people, not
(08:08):
just in the eighteen thirty eight, eighteen to thirty nine,
but also the older generation. How many of them did
ballroom dancing when they grew up, the katillion, all that,
and that's what Danced with the Stars represents twenty years in.
It still represents that romance, the sassiness, and you know
(08:30):
a little bit more nodding.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
You know, a little bit of drama, a little.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Bit of everything. Yes, yeah, so I think it's I
never questioned it. And also when they asked me do
you know more dancers? I was right away thinking these
have to be the right dancers, not the best dancers. Now,
now having said that, when you take a Valsh Mukofsky,
who I coached as well, he could have easily been
world champion. He was world champion in junior. He could
(08:58):
have taken every single title titled. Derek Huff could be
world champion. He was youth champion. I was actually there
when he became world champion in youth. These dancers are
not only the right dancers for the show, they're also
the best dancers. I mean, they're so well trained, and
(09:18):
I'm proud to say that I was part of that
before Dance with the Stars as their coach.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Do you remember a specific moment, maybe it was even
during season one where you felt like, whoa, this is working.
It's all it's gonna go. This show is going to
be a massive success, the show itself.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yes, I was so happy to hear that. Everyone was
so nervous that first one. Danielle, you guys are nervous
coming down those stairs.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
But season one, week one, everyone ABC, the show run
at Conrad Green, Dina. Everyone was so nervous because this
is the first time. And then we had thirteen point
five million viewers and they couldn't be happier. And that
was the summer show. So I knew then it's a hit. However,
(10:12):
I've never won this show, but I think I deserve
a trophy because stress the ctter and I were the
first ever eliminated couple in season one. Don't you think
that deserves something?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You know what I do? I think what's the opposite
of a mirror ball?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
The well turn it outside of second? It's yeah. I
learned a lot that first season. Oh my gosh. I
learned a lot because I came in and not to
brag or anything, but just to give you and your
viewers perspective. I came in from coaching, coaching people like
(10:49):
Jenna Johnson, Welshikovsky, Max Murkowsky, and then I went in
with that coaching attitude in dense with the stars, Oh
my gosh, I looked like and I mean, I'm not
going to say the capital A because we strect yes.
And then on top I had long hair in a ponytail,
I have these cheek pumps. It looks oh my gosh,
(11:11):
I look so dang arrogant. And then in the package, yeah,
I'm a three time world champion, and oh my gosh.
It was a very humbling experience, and season two was
amazing because of the learning lessons from season one.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I see, do you was that attitude that you had
in season one? Was that something that is that what
you were like as a coach generally or was it
something put on for the TV show?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well that's that's a two first. So the first portion
is that for me, if you tell me you want
to be a champion, national or world champion, then I'm
going to treat you as such, not in being nasty,
but okay, here are the goals, and I'm going to
hold you accountable. But that's with the stars. I mean you, guys,
(12:04):
I mean I respect you so much. You put yourself
out there. You're a working actress, you can control your work,
and here you are putting yourself on the chopping block potentially,
and so I respect every and all celebrity for doing that.
But for me as a coach, I realized, wait a minute,
(12:26):
Wait a minute, wait a minute, this is not your
bread and butter, and this is your hobby. Now in
a way, it is your bread and butter because you
put yourself out there as a celebrity. And but I
was never I don't think I'm arrogant. It's just I
hold you accountable. But then the way the questions are asked,
(12:46):
you know, when you have your Thursday interviews. You have
to be mindful on how you say it because everything
can and will be used against you. And that's not
on the producers. That's on us to be mindful on
you know, what you say in terms of in terms
of the bad Boys status. I think they tried, and
(13:11):
then you know, Max came on board in season three,
and I guess he took the role. But I don't
want to play a role. I've always said I'm a
chameleon as a coach, as a teacher, as a dancer,
Expect the unexpected. I've said it in so many interviews
because I, for example, if you and I were parted,
I don't know you, so maybe I have one approach. Well,
(13:33):
then that approach doesn't work, Okay, a different approach. Maybe
you're a visual learner, audio learner. Maybe you're just slow
in picking up, so the first three days take it
a easier and then when I see you pick it up, boom.
Then we're going to spend the hours on really diving deep.
And others say, let me give me, give me everything
on that first day and then slow down towards the
(13:53):
end of the week. So they tried, and I think
that's part of the reason I'm being really for that
off not being in all seasons, because that was never
my choice, not to be real, I just don't like
being put in a box. I don't like labels. So
I also don't want to be called the gay dancer
or the I am me. There's so many more sides
(14:16):
to me, and so yeah, I you expect the unexpected.
That's really my coaching philosophy because I don't know who
I am partnered with totally.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
We interviewed Max as well, and Max said something similar
about coming onto the show, and he said, you know,
when I joined the show, I was told your goal
was to get this celebrity to be a trained dancer,
and he said, and so I came in very much
with like, if you want to be a star dancer,
you're going to have to do all of these things.
(14:51):
And he said, and then of course, over time you realize,
like these celebrities, it's impossible for them to become in
ten weeks eleven weeks. You can't possibly learn all the
things you need to learn. And he said, you know,
so I realized that maybe my approach wasn't working and
that that really wasn't the hook of the show. So
it's interesting to hear you say something similar that, Like,
(15:12):
you know, they told me I was taking a celebrity
and wanted to make them a national champion.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Well, of course I have to hold you accountable to that.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, And of course, again it depends on the celebrity.
I can give you two examples. In season nine, I
had Kelly Osborne. Yeah, no dance experience. There was a
lot of baggage, emotional baggage that we had to go through.
So that was one step at a time, very slow going,
and she made the final. So it doesn't mean you
(15:43):
can't make the final when you're a non dancer, but
you have to approach it differently from a dancer. And
when we lose our patients, you can hold all the
pros accountable because that's on us because a good coach
never loses their cool. You can be frustrated, but you
cannot lose your patients. It's not well, you're not getting it.
You're not getting it. Well, that means us as pros,
(16:04):
we have to dig deeper, change our strategy until you
get that hook where your celebrity really feels oh, I'm growing.
And then in the All Star season I had Sabrina Brian,
I had that season the best dancer of the season,
but hip hop trained cheerleading, everything is slice and dice,
bam boom, and I love Sabrina, so it was my
(16:27):
goal in that one. I put on my coach's head
and I said, and this was also discussed with Sabrina, look,
you are the best dancers that can backfire. It did
in season six with marks Week six, three tenths voted off,
and she was willing to go do the work, but
I made her go for that lowering and the heat
(16:48):
leads and the posture up and the chest up and
you know all about it now.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I do.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I do, And I never expected to love it nearly
as much as I do. I just it's shocking to me. Well,
thank you, I do. I just love it so much.
And you, as a quok well hearing what you have
to say about what it means to be a good coach.
All I can picture in my head is my dear Pasha,
who is every single day consistent. There's never a day
(17:19):
where I have to wonder what kind of a mood
he's going to be in, or adjust what how I'm
feeling or doing based on something that's going on with him.
He is a total professional. He is always committed, he's
always prepared, he's always ready to work. He doesn't He
gives me space to have my feelings about something, but
(17:41):
he's never He's very quick to just sit there and
let me have the experience and then go, Okay, it's
time to get back on now. He's the most patient
human being. I mean, maybe I've ever met in my
entire life. I can't imagine having been partnered with anybody else.
So I really feel like I lucked out the season.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
You Hit the Jackpot. Now, as I mentioned earlier, I
know every single pro dancer on the show, probably eighty percent.
I was the coach growing up, so I have to
preface that I like most and love a few. I mean,
like there's no tomorrow. I never actually worked with Pasha
(18:23):
or Danielle, but I've seen him grow up. And they
are not just Pasha but also Danielle, the most grounded couple.
And they've been on the show now for many seasons
and it hasn't changed them as humans. But also where
You hit the Jackpot, Pasha is had to always get
(18:44):
it from hard work, and Danielle that is such a
natural gifted, naturally gifted beast, I mean, and everyone can
see it. And he just worked, worked, worked, And also
they did ten dance, so they're especially Pasha. He's equal
(19:05):
in the standard ballroom dances as he's in the Latin dances.
And on top, he taught a lot of proem which
is an amateur dancing with the pro such as Pasha,
they compete. He has a lot of teaching experience too,
So you hit the jackpot on the kindness as a human,
but also has a lot of different ways on how
he can approach that. He is successful with you and
(19:28):
I just for me, kindness is number one. If you're
a kind human being and you are grounded, then you
have my respect. And if you are on top a
great dancer and teacher, then you've made it. And these
two are wonderful.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
People couldn't agree with you more. I know.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Oh, you have been watching this season both on TV
and you've been in the ballroom, and there has been
a lot of talked about that this season is a
stacked cast. It's become a large part of the discourse
on surrounding the show. Considering you were there for its genesis,
what are your thoughts on the conceit of dancing with
the stars and celebrities who have prior dance experience.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, especially in the early years, I was really frustrated
when half the cast had dance experience and we are
the ones, as the pros, that have the non dancers.
But then I grew to like it more because for me,
if you have a non dancer, that means that celebrity
(20:50):
represents the majority of the viewers watching. Yeah, and they
live vicariously through that celebrity. And that's why people like
a Kelly Osborn, Bobby Bones and directed this season, they
make it far because they just move slightly. But also
we had conversations. I've had conversations with Dina Katz, executive
(21:14):
director and casting director, like, hey, why can we not
do a season with all non dancers? Well, what would
the show look like visually? And there you got me
as a producer myself, I had to yeah, thank you
for explaining. And it wasn't really like why are you
doing this to me? No, it was more sincerely wanting
(21:36):
to know why why did they do that? And I
get it. And also again Andy Rictor, and there were
quite a few dancers, if not every single one that
have gone home already are better dances than Andy, And
somehow the people at home keep voting him, and even
the judges give him low scores. So it's not that
(21:57):
the judges are helping him either. It's really it's really
the people at home they're voting. And then there's the
other question that comes from here, Well, we shouldn't have
the people at home voting because look, otherwise, hey and
you would have been mong gone home. Yeah, but then
we wouldn't have a show on TV. Yeah, it's all
about ratings and voting, and you just you are in
(22:19):
the season that really has come back so strong, over
fifty five million votes, yeah, number one showing it on TV.
I mean, so I hope that the viewers understand that
it's hard to just have non dancers celebrities or do
a season with all dancing celebrities. Would it be fun
(22:41):
if Jennifer Gray would come back, Nicole Scherzinger, Bindy Irwin,
maybe get Paul Abdul. Wouldn't that be a fun season?
But they won't do it. I don't think they will
do it. But anyway, there's a fantastic season, and it's
the diversity that makes it special.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right, That's exactly what it is, the dichotomy of watching
Andy Richter versus watching Whitney Levitt and being impressed with both,
you know, for different reasons. Like with it's nice in
one night to be able to run the full gamut
and just to vote on what it is that makes
(23:18):
you happy. I thought it was really smart when Andy
said that a producer told him that they ask you
to vote for your favorite dance, not the best dance.
And so you know, that is the joy of America.
Having a vote is who do you want to see
more from? It doesn't have to be the best, It
just means who do you want to see again? And
(23:40):
that's where they have a lot of power.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Two things on that one I really want to share
so on so you think you can dance? Season one
one Fox, that was to find the best dancer, and
that was the MC was constantly the best dancer. They
changed it in season two, We're looking for your faith
a dancer, same thing because they realized, oh, the judges
(24:04):
choose one to be the best, but then the audience
chooses another because it's their favorite and not the best dancer.
And it's and also, to quote a famous hockey coach,
and he said, I am not looking for the best players.
I'm looking for the right players. And to me, that
(24:25):
is kind of similar. We're not looking for the best
dancer to win the show. We're looking for the favorite,
and hopefully the best dancer is also the favorite.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You know, wow, yep, but well you know there.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It is.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
As looking back on your time on the show, if
you had to select one of your famous partners to
say this is the one you'd make a highlight reel of,
regardless of where you placed, who would you say is
your highlight reel partner?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Easy? Kelly Osborne season nine really underdog. She was the
sea best kit. She was the one that I think,
just on paper, she was going to be the first
one going home. Yeah, and what I find and I'm
not I always get emotional when I talk about Kelly
(25:22):
because it was even though it was two thousand and nine,
that journey has not only affected her or maybe changed
her life, it has changed mind. I started building my confidence.
I know I'm a good teacher. I know I'm a
good coach. I mean, heck, I coached many of the
ones on the show. But it's it's that's the world
(25:46):
I'm in this is TV to affect and help someone
in front of millions and then for her to really
listen to what you have to say. And we also
had arguments. There were I mean, she danced in a
broken toe, her dog died during the show, and I
mean there were so many things that we had to
deal with. And then to be in the final because
(26:09):
of the audience, not because of the judges. The judges
score were always kind of lower and lower, and to
see her blossom and even now looking at her, even
after the show, there were ups and downs with her,
even in the press you could read it. But in
the long run, it's how she dealt with it and
(26:31):
how she's dealing with it. And now she's engaged, she
has a baby of her own which is growing up.
I mean quickly that that will be probably the most
trends formative partnership I think has ever been on the show.
And I am proud to have been her partner. And
(26:52):
that almost didn't happen because I believe, and if you
have Mark after me, I think originally Kelly was partnered
with Mark ballas with Mikey, and I believe not that
she said, look, I'm engaged to another guy. She's not
(27:12):
engaged with the same guy. Now, yeah, she wants someone gay,
she wants safety, that there would be no kind of well,
I don't know. I think maybe if you're married and
you're doing the show, would you maybe you know, feel
the same way that you kind of want to either
(27:33):
be safe or be with another married pro that's on
the show. You know it's but anyway, so it almost
didn't happen, and it did happen, and yeah, that was
the most memorable I believe.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
For me, I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I love that even just to see you get emotional
talking about it, because I I feel as though the
show has been completely transformative for me as well, and
so has Pasha and Daniella in my life. So i'm
i'm it's it's always nice when I see that those
feelings are very real and you're still close and it's
(28:10):
not just something that's only going to last for the
you know, eleven weeks the show goes on, that it
really does actually change your life in the way it
feel like it feels as of right now like it has.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
It's it's it's wonderful And for the viewers, how many
of you as celebrities say this has changed my life,
and then a lot of people probably roll their eyes. Yeah,
of course you're saying that. No, it's true. It has
also changed our lives as prod answers, the opportunities we've gotten.
And besides maybe two celebrities of my eleven I am
(28:47):
still in contact with and I'm still friends with, It's
not a lot because I don't live in La, so
it's it's a little different. But when I'm in La
for still, op Pressley and I will always dinner. Lisa
and I Rena we talked back and forth and or
we like each other's posts, and also you might become
(29:08):
friends with other pro dancers that are not for sure
or other celebrities on our side. It's it's really wonderful
what this show has done, had what it can mean
to people watching.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You had a lot of close calls, although you've never
won a Mirror Ball like my partner Pasha.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Lisa.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Renna came in third, Monique Coleman and fourth, Nissi Nash
in fifth.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Was there anyone in.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Particular that you were partnered with other than Kelly who,
of course you made it to the final with But
was there another partner that you thought I can I'm
gonna win with this one.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
All Star season, Yeah, Sam Bryan. I also wanted for
her to break the week six Furst elimination from season.
I think it was with Mark, and then ironically we
got eliminated week six.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I know.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And this is a message especially for your fans and
whoever's favorite is still in vote, vote vote, because in
week five we had three tents with our Cinderella Disney
Night walls. Then week six we had three tents with
(30:28):
our rumba and we had I believe three tents with
our group dance. So we went out on with sixty
out of sixty. And people think you're safe when you
get tens, you're safe. You are not safe. You're not safe.
And I hate to say that because I really I
(30:51):
mean Andy, it just looks such like such a nice guy.
But say you get high scores and people think, oh,
you you're safe because you get these high scores. No,
because a person like Andy gets so many votes that
even a lower scores can mean you're going home. So
(31:11):
make sure you vote, ladies and gentlemen, vote, vote, vote.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I know that is I interviewed Sabrina at the very
start of this podcast, and I asked her that question.
I was just straight up, I said, do you think
the reason you went home is because people saw those
high scores and just assumed that you were safe. Because
it's it's really the only explanation is that people go, oh,
I don't need to worry about her, but these other
people with lower scores, I need to boost them up
(31:36):
and then low and behold you don't get any votes.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
No, no, it's it's true. It's really people need to vote,
and I think the message is clear and people are voting.
I mean, fifty five million votes, it's.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
A lot of votes.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yes, looking back on all your seasons, do you have
any idea thoughts on specific strategy to win, whether it's
how you arrange when you do which dance or song choices.
What are some of the strategies to winning as you
see it now?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
All of the above I was missed a strategy. And
also when you have a non dancing celebrity, you have
to be very strategic in every decision but one. And
this is where being a veteran in this business helps.
For example, music, so many younger pros and maybe now
(32:36):
they've learned a lesson, they would find music maybe a
week two weeks before the show, and then if the
song that they really want is already chosen, but someone else,
I'm sorry, so and so already chosen. So I would
have one hundred and fifty songs on a list divided
by dances discussed with my celebrity first day. Now what
(33:00):
they're doing is you are now getting a package to
fill out. So now the show doesn't But in the
early years it was on us, and so I would
make sure that yeah, no, already already asked for it. Oh,
already asked for it. Oh. And of course then when
I'm eliminated, they would have a lot of songs for
others to use, but I didn't at first it would
(33:21):
frustrate me. But at least with the strategy of music,
we mostly had the songs we wanted because I put
in the effort. So that's that's one thing. And when
it comes to the dances in close hold, like quick
step in tango, the rules are being bent very much
by the younger pros, and the judges don't always call
(33:43):
it out, which to mean they need to be how
the accountable. You're allowed ten seconds in open hold in
the beginning and at the end with tangoing quick steps.
So I want these dances out of the way as
early as possible. Get it out of the way. So
later in the season, you want to the dances where
you can lift. You want to have the dances that
are more exuberant, like the or the give the higher
(34:05):
energy or the heartfelt dances. But also depends on who.
How is my celebrity perceived. If she is perceived as
more hardcore, then I need to work on the softer side.
So I want to have those dances later in the season.
So I was glad with Kelly. I kept Rumba for
(34:26):
as late as possible and then really show the heartfelt side,
the heart strings, play on the heart strings. So I mean,
I could. There are so many more strategies, but the
dances get us boring dances that you have to stay
close holds out of the way.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Really smart, really super smart?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Well you know, I think.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So are you looking forward to the twentieth anniversary show?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Will you be in the audience again?
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh? I will be in the audience. I cannot wait.
It's you know, I've done eleventh season out of thirty
four and I think of one of the pros that
have come back over time and coming back again. I
did three years ago I was back on the show,
So I've kind of been part of every single change
(35:22):
or with a new or a different showrunner, or they
went into a different direction and then it came back.
So I've been part of that show with the whole
rollercoaster of all thirty four seasons, and it's so wonderful
to see after twenty years, thirty four seasons, the show
is back number one, the most votes ever and so Danielle,
(35:45):
I thank you and your fellow celebrities for bringing it
back to where it is right now, because it's ultimately
the celebrities that are on the show that are bringing
back the viewers time and time again. So thank you.
It's it's exciting because you've made it so far. You
(36:06):
have nothing to lose, so you can take the nerves
and give up, or you take the nurse the nerves
and switch on, use the adrenaline and say, people at
home watch this, and it's you have nothing to lose
(36:30):
every time you make it past week five. In my opinion,
as a person that does not have a lot of
dance experience, but a lot of acting experience. You've done
your job, you're going for honors. Now you're going through cumblaude.
So whatever they throw at you, enjoy it and see
it as they come on. Bring it on, bring it on.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I really love that advice.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I have been I'm just going to full transparency. I've
really been struggling this week. We had our we have
our team down. I'm a team captain and the team
dance is amazing. I picked, if I have to, if
I do say so myself, I picked an all star
team and it didn't come randomly. I had a full
(37:14):
strategy going into it, and my strategy paid off and
I was thrilled with my choices. But my choices were
such that I am by far the weakest at least
female link on the team, which is never fun to
feel like, Okay, everybody's picking this up so fast, and
(37:35):
I really need this to slow down.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah, you've got to let it go because you're You're
not the weakest link. You are the person that came
in with the least amount of dance experience, so the
pressure is on them, not you. Okay, everyone knows you
have grown from week one to now leaps and bounds.
(37:59):
You have the likability factor and you have no problem
with the character of the dance. Focus regardless of who
is in your team. What can you control. The only
thing you can control is your movements, the involvement in
the movement, listening to the music and do your part.
That's what you can control. You can control Oh, how
(38:22):
the judges look at you, or what the comments they're making. Oh,
oh gosh, you it's we can go psycho when you
listen to everything and everyone reads social media, or even
the looks of the other dances in your team, horse
caps on. Focus on you and Pasha and your work.
That's all you can do.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I would like to ask you have you have you
seen all of my dances? And if so, even if
you haven't, what if you could give me one piece
of advice moving forward? What would you say to me
and how I can improve and how I can do
better next week and for as long as I'm able
to remain on the show.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
So I have seen them all, okay, And I was
wondering if you were going to ask me this question,
And like I said, I kind of already fed into
it a little bit earlier. You have the likability factor.
You could clearly tell you an actress, so you can
like a chameleon, you step into these different dances. If I,
(39:39):
like I said, you're you've come so far already. It's
like an onion that you peel off every single week
and you show a little bit more of yourself. I
would say, rip off all the layers that are left.
It's like when you have your hair ted Lewis, take
(40:01):
off your throw that lose and right. It's the emotional self,
your personal emotional self. I feel hell is held back. Yeah,
because you're a kind person. You're a person and we
haven't met, but it resonates. You can tell through the
screen you're a kind person the relationship you have with
with Pasha. But I would say, f kind, go for it.
(40:27):
And if you question if you could make the final
or not, or you could win the show, everyone that's
still in can win. So you focus on the work.
You focus on what dance do you have this week? Person,
temporary contemporary, take off all these layers and go raw, raw, raw,
(40:50):
don't go in well maybe people won't like this or
oh well maybe this might screw up. Or that lift
that's coming, Oh my gosh, that lift, yeah, commit, commit,
commit to the work, okay, and if there's any doubts,
talk about it with Pasha. Whatever doubt there is, talk,
But for me, you you've earned the spot and you can.
(41:14):
You deserve to be in that finalist as much as
every other one, because you came with much less dance
experience maybe.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Zero, yeah zero, I think I danced at my wedding last.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
There you go, so remind yourself of that. You have
to tell yourself too, look at what I've done in
eight weeks time.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Well, the others have had dance training four years and
you can tell, you can tell, and and you know. Therefore,
take out all the stops and commit, commit, commit.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I appreciate your advice more than you know. It's been.
It's been my work for this week. It's been exactly
what Pasha has been saying to me too. So the
fact that I have two of you who I consider
to be absolute legends and the world does as well,
I know that you are right, and so I will
be thinking of you today in my rehearsal. I'm going
(42:10):
to try and peel back all those layers of the
onion and be my emotional raw self. I do have
a perfect song for it, a perfect story we're telling
through it, So this is the week to do it.
If I'm ever going to do it, this is.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
The week may ask what is the song in the story?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We are doing dream On by Aerosmith because it's Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame Week and dream On is
one of my all time favorite songs. It's also one
of Pasha's all time favorite songs. And the story that
I'm talking about, which is ultimately why I think this
week has been difficult for me, is we are telling
(42:46):
the story about how difficult it can be to be
a woman in society, where we are somehow always too
much and also never enough, no matter what choice you may,
whether it's working outside the home or working inside the home,
if you choose to work outside, you're selfish and your
children need you and where's their mother? And if you
(43:07):
work inside the home, then you are boring and you
don't have interests. And if you get botox and fillers,
then you're not aging gracefully. And if you age gracefully,
then you look old and ugly. And if you are
too thin, you're told to eat a burger, and if
you gain weight, you're told to get off the couch,
and there's just really it feels like there's no winning.
And having been in the public eye and on TV
(43:28):
since I was ten years old, I have been, you know,
under a microscope, and my choices have been scrutinized, and
I've made terrible mistakes, and you know, there's a lot,
there's a lot there. And the story is kind of
about how you can quiet the outside noise and dream
your own dreams and live life to the fullest, use
(43:50):
that negativity maybe to rise above, because you never know
when you're going to dance your last dance or have
your last day.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
And so that's the story.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
And it has been a difficult week for me because
I have been really resistant to the dance I've been
and have been blaming it on things like I'm not
good at it, or I don't like this move, or
like I've just been really resistant. And then it hit
me yesterday after having a really bad rehearsal, and of
course it's no fault of Pasha's.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Pasha is the same he is every day. I was
just in a really down.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Place and it just hit me last night that like,
I'm resistant to it because it's it's triggering so many
things in me. It's triggering a lot of negative self talk,
it's triggering disordered eating. It's like triggering all of these
things that are so personal, and instead of me leaning
(44:43):
into it and embracing that in the dance, it's making
me not want to do it. So it's been a
rough week, but I think like the fact that I
realized it made me wake up today and think one
so happy to be talking to you and for you
to have given me the advice you gave, because it
really lands and resonates. And also just you know, it's
(45:05):
very clear that this is striking an emotional chord for
me and there's a reason for that, and this dance
is actually special and means something.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
So thank you for sharing, Danielle, And this is a beautiful,
heartfelt moment for you and just having this conversation. This
is why I loved or loved doing Dancing with the Stars.
This is where friendships are born in these moments. And
(45:38):
you have been on TV since the age of ten.
You have kids, right, so your mom, your a wife
who can say in there whatever age you are, yeah,
have your success and so let these triggers be the
reasons why you are peel that onion and in a
(46:01):
metaphorical way, on Monday, jump off that cliff, Yeah, and
fly sore, live it take And when I said take
the health, throw it now, when you said.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You have that song, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
There are moments where you just I mean dream on
dream and you have dreamed, but you also have made
a reality. So it's kind of nostalgic that all these
triggers from the past. Yeah, Tuesday is going to be
your your biggest therapy session exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
That is what it's like.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
You for you, and the world happens to have a seat, yeah,
to watch you experience that. And this is to me
why Dance It with the Stars is still on the
air after twenty years because of your frankness, uronness of
just sharing this for I don't know how many people
(47:00):
click in, but it's millions. Yeah, and you have no
problem showing you the raw, Danielle. So on Tuesday, you
know what to do.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yes, thank you, thank you, I am This conversation has
meant so much to me and you are just a
true legend, and I thank you so much for spending
your time. I can't wait to see you next week.
And I'm gonna I'm gonna take your advice on Tuesday,
and I will truly, I'll be thinking of you on
(47:32):
Tuesday when when it goes the way I hope it goes,
I will have in the back of my mind, thank you, Louis.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And you have each other, you have Pasha, but ultimately
trust you. Yeah, and you You're gonna do fantastic raw.
The raw Danielle is coming out on Tuesday. Thank you
for having me. I really enjoy doing this and you've
done amazing this season. And I can wait to watch
Tuesday night.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yes, and we have to make a point to actually
meet next week.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
I need to.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I will not.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I will not rest until I have been able to
give you a hug.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
I promise I will come find you. Okay, Thanks, Thank you, Danielle,
and then joy rehearsal later.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Thank you. I will Bye.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Danielle with the Stars Produced and hosted by Danielle Fischl.
Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge
of production, Danielle Romo, producer, editor and engineer Tara Sudbosch.
Theme song by Justin Siegel. Follow us on Instagram at
Danielle with Stars and vote for me
Hosts And Creators
Will Friedle
Danielle Fishel
Rider Strong
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