Group Therapy Meets World

An idea tossed around since episode 1 finally comes to fruition as the gang sits down with therapist Kiera Muscara, to help look back on their childhood experiences and see them through an adult lens. It’s an emotional journey through facing your inner child, dealing with intense pressure at a young age and how returning for Girl Meets World may have changed everything. The journey to growth continues on this Very Special Episode of Pod Meets World…

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pod Meets World Live presented by our pals at Hyundai
is right around the corner, and no matter where you live,
you can join us and watch the stream. We're bringing
the bullies together for the first time in thirty years.
From the moment we interviewed them, I knew we wanted
to make it happen. So many of you asked for it,
and our dreams are coming true. We are going to
see them reunited on stage and all of you can

(00:22):
witness it with us. So our stream is going to
be available on May first. Will where can people go.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
They can go to moment dot Co slash Pod meets World.
And I can't believe that we actually pulled this off.
This wee I can't really really cool. I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I really the number one thing I'm looking forward to,
and there are so many things I'm looking forward to.
The fact that it's number one is pretty special.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
That's pretty awesome. Because again, when you go from there
and you've also got Betsy Randall coming in, You've got
Lisa Lowly thing. I mean, this is insane. It is
going to be such an awesome show.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I can also everyone's favorite Mister Turner is going to
be there, mister Anthony Tyler Quinn, So I promise you
you're not going to want to miss it again. You
can go to moment dot Co slash podmeets World and
you can get your ticket for the stream, which becomes
available on May first, and you will have seven days
to watch it after that, so no real rush to
see it that day on May first.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah. I didn't mention Tony because I just can't. I
can't with all these people. I can't do it anymore.
There's too much I've got. My head's gonna explode. I
can't wait.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Rider.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
After much shaming, and let's be honest with each other,
as we've been friends for so long, that's what it's been.
After much horrible shaming coming from you. This morning, I
purchased a thin, small wallet.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Oh yes, thank you. I couldn't couldn't take it because
stands a wallet like like you know, three hundred or
three thousand page novel size wallet and everything in there.
Oh my god, it was around Yeah please please what membership?

(02:17):
But Blockbuster, do you still yours?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Is gone? Thank you. Blockbuster is responsible for my marriage,
by the way, literally responsible for my marriage. So let's
have we not.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Have we not talked about this.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
No, So Sue and I dated right after Sadness. No,
I know, I love Blockbuster. I love it.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
I hope your marriage is not based on It's based
on trust and mutual respect. It's a lot of other things.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's based on Blockbuster. We got the love and the trust.
That's the easy part, the getting films nowadays. No, so
Sue and I dated start dated first right after boy
me t World and the timing just wasn't right, and
we met again. I mean we stayed friendly for years,
but then really met again in the parking lot in

(03:06):
front of Blockbuster because I was going to return a movie.
And when we met again, I asked her out and
we've been together ever since. So five years after I
met her in front.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Of me were returning?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
I don't, but I think it was a Tuesday, because
that's when the new movies come out, or did I
proposed to her five years later on that same spot
where the Blockbuster used to be in our in our
Ralph slot, not the rot up. Yes, so that I
proposed to see you on the same spot. Kin goes, yeah,

(03:38):
But so Blockbuster without Blockbuster, without me returning that movie?
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (03:42):
So see this is why we need video stores or
great places to go.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
May I interest you in coming to shop at the
DVD of Husband Jensen car producer of this podcast.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah we got with my house is the same and
I love it. Or his alphabetical alphabetical.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, his or alphabetical and he's yeah, it's yeah, that's
how they should be. Okay, right, whatever you guys say.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
So you've gone to a slim wallet.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I've got how many slim wallet?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
How many things do you have in there? Now?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Twelve? But no, no, I just ordered it this morning. It
carries twelve cards, but that's including like my license, and
you know, I have a card to get into this.
I have a priority passed for the airport. I have
blah blah blah blah blah. So and then I have
like two credit cards, my last card, like I know,
your weirdest card, my weirdest card. Oh that's a tough question.

(04:38):
I found two debit cards from years ago that I'd
never activated from a bank I did not know I
was part of.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Do you have accounts there?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I don't know. But I have a debit card with
the sticker still on it, like.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Five dollars in your jacket pocket. Will's going to discover
I have ten?

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Seriously, I was seriously that, but no I do. I
I kept But then I have things like so the
first again sentimental. When I moved to California when I
was sixteen, my mom hand wrote me a note about
how much she loved me and how proud she was
of me. And I still have that in my wallet,
like I carry that with me everywhere.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh, I just had a memory, Will of your original
driver's license? You kept your hat on?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, they didn't say anything. Ever seen a driver's license
with a baseball hat? I remember?

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Do you still have that driver's license? No? No things.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Do you remember your driver's test? Because my driver's test
from the time I got into the car to the
time I parked the car to be the test being done,
it was less than ninety seconds.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, my driver's test was pretty short, I remember, but.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Mine was not. I had to get on the freeway
and get off the freeway.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
You had a freeway drive, man, that's different.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, we had it in La.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Navigate the cows. And did you do years in La
or up north?

Speaker 5 (05:57):
Right?

Speaker 2 (05:58):
No?

Speaker 3 (05:58):
No, I did mine up north because it was year
is better up there because if you did in La,
you might have to get on the free So I
did it up in Santa Rosa.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah. So I have one other quick thing I want
to talk about because Danielle you said something that got
me to thinking, Okay, you hate it when I do that.
I know you said, and it's something that I think
we're going to talk about a little bit today. But
you said that when we were talking about ben about
being you know, defined as what you are when you're
a child. Can you think of anything other than say

(06:29):
actor or athlete where you are really defined by what
you did when you were a kid, I mean, any
other profession or anything that because you don't work so.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
But there are like athletics like, for example, you could
be a cheerleader in school and then or a gym
like for example, my cousin was an incredible gymnast growing up.
Like I understand when I said once, well I was
a gymnast before I started acting, and my mom said, no,
you took gymnastics.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
A gymnast accomplishment exactly.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
There is a difference between I take gymnastics classes and
I am actually a gymnast. My cousin was a gymnast
and she did it from the time she was very
young all the way through school, and it was like
there was this anticipation of like, is she going to
go to the Olympics? Is she going to you know,
do it collegiately? And then you have this like kind
of thing on you, like, well what do you do now?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
You know, like status, it's not about the activity because
you know I talked about you know when in college
I was friends with Josh Waitskin and it was chess, right,
like he was the chess and like and you know whatever,
you if you excel at anything at at an early
age and you reach a certain level of status, whether
that's a sport or a game or anything, I think

(07:49):
you know.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
That definds you.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, ends up being it just it just yeah, you
spread your your status gets so uh, you know spread
to the world that people end up defining you buy
that identity whatever that is, or just.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Being incredibly smart or a class clown or not being
the smartest one in your family or like those things.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Those those things are me.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
But I feel like those things happen on a like
an interpersonal local basis. Yeah, like a local Like that's
totally fine. And I think people are much more willing
to forgive those things or to let you outgrow those
things when you actually achieve status in a public mindset,
which is you know, I guess nowadays more possible with
social media for everybody, right, But yeah, I think that

(08:34):
there's a certain degree of like when you reach a
certain notoriety that it it becomes.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Different talking about it in a way that is relatable
for every person, because yes, you're right, there is a
different there's a different echelon of it, which is like, well,
now the public or a majority of the world or
country knows me as this thing, and now they want
to lock me in this thing. But literally, I think
every person has a certain that goes through a version

(09:02):
of that. Well, they feel like they are you know,
well I was the smartest one in my school, and
now I don't have a job that people would assume
that I should have, And so they feel this like
they feel a sense of failure if they don't live
up to expectations that maybe were placed on them or
that they set as as children. I take it back,
you can't set an expert. You can't do it as

(09:23):
a child. Other people put it on you as a child.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, but It's one of those things like I think
about the people that have have done were very successful
in this industry as children and then moved on and
had great careers doing other things. Like I think of
like Stacy Keenan, who's one of the biggest prosecutors I
think out here in Los Angeles now, and Josh Saviano
from Wonder Years, I think also went off became a lawyer.
They're they're very successful in other careers, and I think

(09:45):
if you would talk to them, there's still a sense
of people like, oh, that's what you're doing now you
know where It's like you're now, Oh, I guess the
acting thing didn't work out. It's like I'm a powerful attorney.
I acted as a kid, and now I have this
other But there's always that sense of like, oh, okay,
I was just wondering what if there was anything else
of it?

Speaker 3 (10:01):
But you're right, well, you know, I actually I have
a weird react. I've been having a weird reaction to
kihe Kwan's winning the Academy Award because on one hand,
I am so happy because I think he is phenomenal
and I've always loved him and I always, you know,
thought he was a great actor, and when I watched
the movie, I was like, oh, there, it is like
there is an incredible performer doing his thing, but there's

(10:24):
something in the narrative of his sort of like I'm
still here and like this is what I needed all
this time. That's a little bit of a bummer to me,
because it's like the goal should not be you didn't
exist until you came back into the public and won
the Academy Award. Like maybe I would, I would appreciate
the narrative being I've been living an awesome life this

(10:47):
entire time, and it's just interesting to me that, you know.
I mean, he's obviously is just enjoying himself, so I'm
not blaming him, but the media narrative that is sort
of like he went away and he and Brandan Fraser
disappeared and now they've come back and accomplish something again
that makes their lives worth notice, and it's a little
bit of a bummer. I'm like, no, I think the
conversation should be they've always been able to live full,

(11:10):
fully realized lives, and we're maybe we should have been
celebrating them this entire time, and maybe not just like now,
you know, putting them back on a pedestal and saying
all right, yeah, came back, you did it. You know,
screw all those other you know people who's doing make
it here.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
That is also just a criticism of award culture, you know,
the idea.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Of in status recognition, yes this week, you're huge.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Next week, that the work you're doing or the work
you did only mean something when everyone collectively says, fine,
the work you're doing means something.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
There's also something about rich, beautiful people getting together to
pat themselves on the back that just I find dicky.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I I don't like it either. I don't like it either,
but I was nominated for me and I went and
I wanted to win.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah. I think it's very important to have cultural prestige. Like,
I think it's nice to have because otherwise it's just
about money and box office like and I think that
that is right. But that's what I mean, Like, I
feel like the point of any awards ceremony is to
put it into the hands of the people with that
work within the industry, like or not, or critics right

(12:22):
like you have. But I think that it's important to
have other measures of success beyond just making money and
being being, you know, the biggest box office number. So
I think that the Academy Awards are really great for that,
and I think what I love about it is that
the people are nominated within their categories by their peers,
by people who are accomplished in that. And I think
for the most part, the Academy Awards usually I think

(12:45):
the nominations get it pretty right. Like I think that
they tend to have a good, good slate of films
from the years.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Not for me, it's never those award shows have never
been for me.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Well, I'd like to jump into our episode because I'm
really excited about this one.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
So welcome to Pod meets World.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
I'm Daniel Fischl, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Wilfredell.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
So we have mentioned it on the show a few times,
sometimes in a jokey way, like, oh, you know what
would be cool is if we did this and here
we are, so do we already regret saying that maybe
we would bring a therapist on to talk to us about.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm keeping my mind. I'm keeping an open mind. That's
all I can say. I'm keeping an open mind. Good.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, that brings me to giving you a little bit
of backstory on Kira Muscara, who is a licensed clinical
social worker. She is a former actor turned therapist specializing
in well being for actors, female empowerment, and friendship dynamics.
She holds a BFA in acting from NYU Tish School

(13:54):
of the Arts and a master Yes and a Master
of Science in Social Work for Columbia University.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Oh, I like that's school. Yes, you do.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
She's basically filming it with us.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Actually, Hogwarts was my safety school. That's a whole different thing.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Kira currently works in private practice providing individual psychotherapy consulting
and is hired for speaking engagements in educational and entertainment spaces.
And now, after listening to every single episode of our
podcast episodes, she is going to dissect the inner and
outer thoughts of three former child stars on pod Meats World.

(14:32):
So let's please welcome Kira Mascara. Yeah, guys, what if
I said please welcome Kira.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
And then it was Dusty that would surprise he's here
for all of the unpackings.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
Well, thank you Kira for being here with us.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
And my first question is that we are now more
more than halfway through season two of our podcast and
of Boy meets world, and this is you know, probably
something we should have asked many months ago, but was
analyzing ourselves as teens thirty years later for thousands of strangers.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
A bad idea, I would say, short answer.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, okay, been amazing.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
I think something that's so important when we're looking at
childhood and adolescent memories. We store the information through the
lens of a child or adolescent, and so it's so
important to unpack our experiences from that time through an
adult lens so that we can apply what we know
as adults to those experiences and those memories.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Oh wow, Yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Such a that's such a concise way of saying exactly
what we have been have been feeling.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
Yes, thank you so much, but yet to like, as adults,
we have tools, we have support systems to turn to,
we have just perspective, and I think bringing all of
that to a childhood or adolescent memory can kind of

(16:11):
help us see it in a different way and store
it in a different place in our body and our
mind and our soul.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
Wow, no, wonder, this is all felt so healing.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, why does Ryder like to steal so much?

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Dude?

Speaker 4 (16:24):
That might be a whole other episode she wasn't aware
of that backstory.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
I think what's weird about our experience and what we're
doing here is that we have all of this actual
video footage.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
You know.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
So it's like I and I, you know, I've talked
about my insecurities just watching myself, but also just looking
at even your guys' faces, and how you know, something
starts happening in my brain when I'm watching my face
and our faces. It's like it takes me right back.
And so it's very weird to not only be processing
these experiences narratively together as a team, like which is

(16:59):
very therapeutic, right, psychotherapeutic to go back and talk it through,
we also have this like archival footage of us performing.
It's very bizarre and it's a unique experience, definitely, And.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
I think what's important about you guys doing it publicly
because all that unpacking could be done behind the scenes
in your private lives and your own therapy, but doing
it publicly, what you guys have spoken about is how
it really allows you to take ownership of the experience
and ownership of who you are as people behind the characters.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Right, Yes, that is very true question for you because
you work a lot with actors. You specifically work with actors.
You're an actor or former actor yourself, I am, Yeah,
what issues do you find yourself dealing with more with
people from that profession than maybe other professions.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think so much of
it is self esteem, to be honest, to keep it real, general,
it's a lot of self esteem work and a lot
of work I think, especially with people who were actors
at a young age, is recognizing the parts of themselves
that needed to come forward, maybe at a younger age

(18:10):
than they would have otherwise, because they're working in this
kind of world and working in this environment that is
so adult and so so bizarre. To be frank, I mean,
it requires you to be the instrument yourself. There's no
separation between you and your work, and I think a
lot of the work with actors can be helping them

(18:32):
unblur those lines, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Wow, Kira, let's jump into your questions.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
I have so many things I could ask you, but
I know that you have some things you'd like to
talk to us about, so let's jump in with what you'd.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Like to know.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Awesome.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Well, I think my first question is I would love
to know during the time of filming the show. Did
any of you have therapists at that time?

Speaker 4 (19:04):
Great question.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I did not.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
I did not.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
No, I didn't at the time.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
Right, well, when did you start therapy?

Speaker 2 (19:12):
I started therapy when I realized I needed it with
my anxiety. So it was I think it was probably
it was probably towards the end of the show, you know,
maybe ninety nine, two thousand, like.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
The very while the show was going.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I don't I can't remember. I don't think it was
actually think, I don't think it.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Was the show. And I know, Yeah, my feeling is
that it wasn't until your early twenties. But you've said
that you started feeling anxiety by the end of Boy
Meets World.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Oh, no, I had my first. So I had my
first panic attack while filming at Double hockey Sticks. They
used the take so I can see where my panic
attack was. Wow, that was yeah, so I can actually
point and go first anxiety attack. So that's on film
for me too, in a scene with Gabrielle Union. And
that was like ninety eight, ninety nine, right, yeah, ninety eight,
And so then it was just then, you you know,

(19:56):
I got on medication which is why I put on
all the weight, and then I was just white knuckling
it until you realize that that's not going to help
for long anyway. And so by about two thousand I
went and I did everything in a finite amount of time.
You know, I'm not in therapy now. I don't know
why I need to say that, but and I haven't
been for many, many, many many years. But at the
time I needed it and it was life altering and

(20:18):
really helped.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
I actually thought you still were in therapy. I am
recently in therapy for the very first time in my life.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
No, therapy's great, I just I haven't done it in
twenty ye Yeah. Yeah, how is that for you?

Speaker 5 (20:31):
Daniel likes to have that in conjunction with this, which
has also been therapeutic in its own way.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, you know, I don't want to say that the
podcast is the reason that I'm in therapy, because it
isn't the entirety of the reason that I'm in therapy,
but to be honest, it is a large part of
the reason I'm in therapy. I think that there have
been a lot of things that have come up for
me over the course of doing the podcast, rewatching the

(20:57):
episodes about things and wondering how much of things that
happened in my childhood or in my past have impacted
who I am now as an adult and things that
I'd like to change about myself, Like you guys have
heard me joke about it, my perfectionism and my type
A miss and you know it's funny if it also

(21:21):
isn't so obnoxious, and if it also wasn't so for
lack of a better word, painful, Like it is time
consuming and exhausting for not only me to be so
type A and perfectionist in nature, but it is also
exhausting for the people around me who love me and

(21:42):
frustrating for them because they want me to be gentler
on myself and also gentler on others. And that comes
out in a lot of ways that I'm not proud of.
I'm quick to anger, I'm quick to raise my voice.
And having kids now, like those things are just so
important to me that my children don't grow up in
a house where they feel like they have to be

(22:05):
all be good all the time or be perfectionist all
the time in order to keep me happy, Like I'm
I just really don't want that and so I am
in therapy for the first time in my life, partially
because of this podcast, and I am struggling. One of
the things that we are starting to talk about is
like little girl Danielle and if I couldn't, I mean,

(22:25):
I couldn't tell you how hard it is to be
in touch with her. I'm like, it's so, I have
like a complete dissociation and I don't know why. And
we actually just had a very interesting experience where a
full and complete, repressed memory was revealed when Will remembered
something very clearly from an episode we shot where I

(22:49):
apparently burst into tears in front of a live studio audience.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
And that is something.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Bursting into tears in front of two hundred and fifty
plus people is something.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
You should remember.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
And you're fellow cast, yeah, and everybody.

Speaker 5 (23:05):
And the audience that will eventually be watching the show. Yeah,
I'm sure that's a piece as well.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, And like that is something you would think if
that happened to anybody listening right now, they go, yeah,
I'd remember that. I'd remember that if that happened to me,
if I burst into tears in front of that many
people and ran off. And yet I have no memory
of it, so I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to
get to those to those things, and it's it is.

(23:30):
If you thought the up the podcast was a lot
of unpacking, I'm also jumping into all kinds of real
life unpacking, which hopefully helps explain some of the reasons
why I am like a raw nerve and am like
could cry at the drop of a dime.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
So I I'm loving it. I'm truly loving it.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
I mean that segues so well into kind of what
I was going to move into. And I'm kind of
going to give some information before I ask some questions
that will relate to what I'm saying, so that when
I'm using these words, you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
So a lot of the work that I do is
parts work.

Speaker 5 (24:04):
It stems from a type of therapy called internal family systems,
basically looking at our internal ecosystem as a family as
all these different parts of us that make up who
we are. And a lot of that includes, like you said,
little Danielle, that's a part of you too, and that
could be multiple parts. Little Danielle can be little Danielle

(24:25):
who was loving being on stage and being the center
of attention. Danielle can be that part that was like
feeling really beaten down and hurt or insecure. And when
we look at all of our parts within us, a
lot of times it could be things like you said, perfectionism,
that could be a part. A part of us can
be I'm a fierce caretaker. I really am passionate about

(24:46):
taking care of my loved ones. These are all different
parts of us. So if I ask you questions and
I use the word parts, that's kind of what I'm
referring to.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
Okay, I love it. I started crying just hearing you
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Going to be a very.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
All come out. And so when you're looking at that experience,
like you said, of like that is so bizarre to me.
Why don't I remember that anyone would remember that? It's
because another part came forward to protect you from the
man as it was too painful to remember that little
Danielle is like frozen in there. And what happens is

(25:21):
the other parts of us have feelings about our different parts,
and there's probably another part of you that's like, I
hate that little girl that was embarrassed and ashamed and crying.
I want to get rid of her.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
So I'm gonna take over and you're not going to
remember that memory. Wow.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
And it's so painful because little Danielle is still in
there and she wants to be heard just as much
of that as that other voice is trying.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
To be heard.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, there's still a part of me that hates that
little Danielle that burst into tears. There's a part of
me that hates the big Danielle burst into tears too.
And I like that, like big a part of me
that always wants to just be like I need to
get things done. It's time to get things done. You
don't have time to talk about this. You don't have
time to grieve this, you don't have time.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
To do that.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
There are things to get done.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
That part of me moving, Oh yeah, that part of
my ego is like whoa, she's a stallion and she's
very efficient and she's like super I mean, I also
give her a lot of credit because that person is
a lot of the reason I accomplish the goals that
I want to accomplish, and I checked them, gets a
lot done and is like super self starting and motivating

(26:33):
and takes a lot on her plate and can get
it all done like the superwoman version of me.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
But yeah, that's her.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
That's the part the Superwoman.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's the only part of me I think is well developed. Honestly,
I think I think the other little parts of me
have just been things. I've just been like, nope, not
dealing with you.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Go away.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
So I'm like just now starting to take the cap
off of those people. I'm not gonna hog this episode.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
So yes, do about everybody's part.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
But I think that makes so much sense that you're like,
that is the part of me that feels so developed,
because yeah, that was the part that got you on
a hit sitcom. That was the part that helped you
sustain being on a hit sitcom. I mean, you need
to be superwoman on set and in handling a situation
that is so bizarre, like we said, and that needs

(27:20):
to be moving, like that's how show business works.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
And so also the only version that got validation, that's
also the one that gets the applause, that gets the
good job, that gets the look what you did, that
gets the like we're so proud of you, because that's
you know, like that's the one that achieves.

Speaker 5 (27:38):
Yeah, the part that cried, like you said on set
and had to take a break and slow down production
and kind of hold everything up. That part doesn't work
in show business.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
If no one was saying congratulations, Danielle, you just stopped
the show. Congratulations, people are waiting.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
Yeah, So Superwoman Danielle learned, I gotta be at the forefront.
I gotta be the driver's I'm going to get stuff
done because these other parts are slowing us down.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Yeah, and that's why they kind of disappear. Yeah, yeah, poof.
Let's talk about writer.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Writer, tell me about your part. Yeah, something writer that
I in a recent episode.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
I know you're talking about.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
I know there's been a lot of conversation about being
hard on ourselves watching everything back, it's I think the
curse of the actor.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
It's impossible to not feel that way.

Speaker 5 (28:39):
But I know you described it as feeling like, oh
my god, I just look so out of control, and
so I wrote it down not presentable, which I thought
was such like, ooh.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Those are powerful words.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
What what was that like?

Speaker 5 (28:54):
Is that how you felt at the time?

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Out of control? Uh?

Speaker 3 (28:57):
It's interesting because I was I was thinking about because
I you know, yeah, that episode recently just came out,
so I saw that clip on Instagram, and I was like, wow, yeah,
I mean, I think what's interesting is that when I
watched the clip of me saying I was out of
control and not presentable, I actually feel the opposite about
acting now, Like I actually think that in a certain

(29:21):
to a certain degree, being out of control and being
non presentable is good for actors, right, Like I think, really,
I think that the and I think, what part of
the my the part of you know, the reason I'm
not an actor anymore is that I realized that so
much of acting became being in control and being presentable,

(29:43):
and that ruined me as an actor, Like that actually
took away the essential thing that is great about acting,
which is that you're doing this high wire act, you're
feeling it, You're alive. So, for instance, I I was
thinking the other day, I remember one time, near the
end of Boy Me World, I finally went into the
editing room. We rarely went into the editing room, and

(30:03):
I remember sitting there watching the editors work on one
of our scenes and Karen mcchanne was our producer, and
they couldn't tell which take they were using from a
performance of mine, and they were like, oh, it's the
same in both of these takes, and Karen turned to
me and said, yeah, you and Ben are often it's

(30:26):
impossible to tell the difference between your takes. And at
the time, I went, that's not a good thing. I
don't think that's a good thing. And what that says
to me is that by the end of Boy Meets World,
I had sort of learned to control my presentation to
you know, and I think it destroyed acting for me.

(30:46):
And it wasn't until I was in my late twenties
early thirties that I started taking acting classes again and
met my wife and sort of rediscovered what acting is
and realized, look, no, I needed like be free, Like
the whole point is to be out of control. So
I totally it's interesting that now I look back on
my early days on Boy Meets World and I'm criticizing that,

(31:07):
when in reality, I think that was actually the right impulse,
you know. I think it's more just like the insecurity
of like, look, feeling awkward about my face and what
I looked like and whatnot. But actually I'm I want
to go back and tell fourteen year old Rider in
second season, keep going, keep being weird, just keep keep
being out of control actually because I think that, yes,

(31:30):
like what I said on the podcast was the sort
of part of me. I was trying to clamp down
and be more presentable and be cooler or better looking
or more and in retrospect, that's all not good for
actors to be. I don't think, you know, I think
I think for me, acting should be freeing and being
about expressive and being honest and open and and so. Yeah.

(31:51):
So I actually kind of want to take back those
those what I was saying and be like, no, you
know is right for me to watch? Yeah, but I
think I was doing right. Like, I think the problem
was that as time went on on Boy Meet's World
and I'm curious to see how it goes, I think
I got more and more presentable and actory and locked
in in my performances and in my jokes, and I

(32:12):
think that made it less funny. I think I became
less entertaining as comedically. I think I might have been
fine dramatically, but I think that's part of the reason
why Sean became not funny is because I got very
insecure about my ability to hit jokes and nail a beat.
And that was you know, truth be told. That was
The atmosphere on our set was that there's a right

(32:33):
way to do jokes, and there was one person in
charge of that right way, and he would tell us
you are only going to get a laugh if you
do it the way I'm going to do it. And
I think Will fortunately was able to break free of
that very early on, and you always were like, no,
I know what's funny, and you did it, and you
were allowed the freedom to do that, and you were

(32:53):
written too in that reg whereas I always felt like,
in order to be funny, I had to follow the
literal line readings or the literal instructions of one man
who was writing those jokes, and that, you know, really
that paralyzed me about comedy and it's a bummer. That's gosh,
that's so powerful.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
I think that is so much of the work for
actors in sustaining a whole career is how do you
keep that freedom and that fluidity that makes you a
good actor and not care because you hear so much
from people like, oh, my best audition was when I
didn't really care about the auditions. I didn't really care
about the part. And it's like, how do we keep
that feeling in us? When we do care because actors,

(33:35):
of course care. It's like the stakes are so high,
we do it because we care, Yes, right.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
I had this incredible experience when I was so when
I was twenty three, I did the play The Graduate,
and I played the Ben Ben Care, the uh Dustin
Hoffman character, so it was I was on stage the
entire time, and it was very much a comedy. It
was a sort of an It was more bag based
on the book The Graduate. They took some parts of

(34:02):
the movie, but it's more based on the book, so
it had more of a sort of comedic outwardly funny tone.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
And I.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Did my best and I was very much a certain
type of actor and just got killed in the reviews,
just massacred, which was the first time I had ever
had bad reviews because it was the first time being
an adult actor, frankly, and like, you know, I finally
and it was so funny. While I was doing the play,
I would read the reviews and be like, eh, they
don't know and move on and be fine. But then
like a year a year and a half after doing

(34:33):
the play, for whatever reason, I decided to google the
reviews and like could not sleep for weeks and it
was devastating. And then when I was thirty, they asked
me the production, the producers of the Graduate asked me
to go do the play again and I still looked
young enough to play the part, and they said, come

(34:54):
to Australia. And at this point I was already pretty
much done with acting. I had moved into directing and
I got this opportunity to play the same role again
and I told the director. I was like, I'm not
going to do it the same way because at that
point I had sort of had this revelation like I
need to like let go of control and let go
of like every night being the same performance and every

(35:15):
line being the same, and it was super freeing and
it was so wonderful to go back and do the
same play and this time completely let go of the
net and it completely changed my approach to acting. And
that's really when I kind of stopped acting after that run.
It was wonderful. It was super empowering, Like and what

(35:36):
I would do is I would be sitting there on
stage and I could feel the audience like if I was,
you know, finding myself into a rote performance where I'm like, oh,
I'm hitting the beats I'm saying that, and I could
feel the audience waning. I could feel the energy waning.
I would be like, whoa, and I'd have to like
wake myself up and be like, next line, I'm just

(35:56):
not going to know how I'm going to say it.
I'm just gonna I know the line, but I'm going
to completely infuse it with a new meaning and a
new feeling. And immediately the audience would come with me,
and immediately they would come back, and so like, I
feel like I got to discover the power of acting
for the first time at thirty years old, you know,
and it was it was so cool to be able
to go back and do the same play again and

(36:18):
be able to like fix it. You know.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
The actress working with me try to get me fired.
Who yeah, because she was like, she's like writers not
doing it the same way every night. I can't work
with him.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Wow, had done very she had that actor well, she
was a she.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Was a very English style actress where there it's like
we lock in our performance and we do it every
night the exact same way. And she she she accused
me of changing the lines and I was like, no, no, no,
I'm doing it word for word the same. I'm just
changing the way I say every night. I would never
improvise on stage, but what I would do is change
the tone, change whatever, change the intention, feel it be

(36:56):
alive in the moment. And that freaked her out, and
you know, of course she had wanted me to go
back to what I had been when I was twenty three,
where I had just been a performing robot, and.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
Where you were in quote unquote control, where you were predictable. Yeah,
being a director, has that given you any insight into
the kind of set and dynamic on set and culture
on set that you want to generate for the cast
that you're working with. And in doing that, is it
giving you any insights into the environment on set of

(37:28):
Boy Meets World?

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Absolutely? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Girl Meets World was really that way that, uh, you.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Know, just deciding, oh, I'm not only a creative director here,
I am. I need to model what I think good
behaviors and good set behaviors for these kids, and I
need to protect them. And it was, you know, and
I was becoming a father during Boy Meets World or
during Girl Meets World. And I remember those two roles
sort of you know, me recognizing like, oh I am

(37:56):
the grown up here and I need to be, you know,
helping create a safe space for these kids and trying
to support them as actors in a way that I
did not feel was being supported and that I did
not feel was supported on Boy Meth World except from
people like David Trainor and Jeff McCracken. And we had
some good directors. We had some great directors and great
producers producers, you know, but in general, yes, with with

(38:16):
Girl Meth World, it was like, oh, I'm I'm time
traveling back, and I get to be one of the
adults that I appreciated when I was on Boymuth World,
and I need to like actively engage those powers now
and and try and do good. And it was really,
it was great. It was It was wonderful. I you know,
I actually don't have much of a relationship with the
girls from Girl Meth World, but I would like to

(38:37):
think that that they think fondly on our time together,
you know. And that way that I was a good
influence was.

Speaker 5 (38:43):
That healing in itself to be able to kind of
be in the parent role and almost reparent other people,
but in a way almost reparent yourself.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
And little Rider. The problem was I also had to
act on the show, and I did not want to
do that and I did not want to have to
be Sean Hunter again. And so while there was so
much empowerment when I directed, you know, and I ended
up directing a bunch of the episodes, ultimately the experience, like,

(39:13):
I think people still think of me as John Hunter,
and I only further entrenched that identity by being on
the show, which was a trade off, right. I agreed
to do two episodes a season of Girl Meets World
in order to be able to direct some episodes. But
when I look at that time, all I can remember
and all I can really think about is the directing
that I did. But unfortunately it's It definitely was the

(39:35):
nail in the coffin of my acting career because it
was like, oh here I am doing Sewan again, and
I just did not want to be there for that,
you know, in that role.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, And I had no problem coming back and playing
Topang again. I was excited to do it and to
see what Tapega was going to be as a mother
and how her relationship with Corey would have evolved, and
who she was as a wife and as a professional.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
I was excited about all of those things.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
And yes, it was very arctic to be an adult
professional on a set that that helped to try and
create in every way that I could a safe space
environment for all of the actors and all the kids
on that show. Unfortunately, in order to do that, I
myself was constantly fraught in near constant battle, and so

(40:23):
it was a total dichotomy of I'm going to battle
to help create a safe space environment, and so it was,
you know, I walked away from it feeling like I
threw myself under a bus or in the line of
five onto the grenade and I and I hope it
worked to a certain and you know, I know only

(40:44):
to a certain extent that it that it you know,
it could it could only it would only work as
much as it could work.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
And you know, uh, yeah, so let's talk about Will.
Will has been silent.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I've just been very I'll be totally honest with you, Kira.
I'm not fully comfortable with this and never have been. Yeah,
I think therapy is very important and very private, so
I'm sure I will be guarded in what I answer,
but have at it.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
No, that's totally okay. I completely respect that because yeah,
this is very unusual. Usually therapy is completely private and confidential.
So yeah, something that I was that I thought was
interesting listening as as a fan of the podcast listening
the whole story about Amsterdam and kind of one the

(41:43):
fleeing to Amsterdam and Jason Marten leading to kind of
come be like, come on, let's get back to real life,
Like we could do this for a week, then we
got to get back to me. It's obviously it's a
hilarious story, but I heard as a therapist, I was like, wow,
that is a strong part of you that was coming forward,
really protecting you from from something from you know, from
being on set, or how you felt being on set,

(42:05):
how you felt being in la.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
I don't know. I'm sure it would be something more
of maybe being in Los Angeles or away from my family,
but that wouldn't make sense because I had gone to Europe.
But no, I my on set experience was normally very
very good. I just I you know, after the first year,
I didn't have to be in school, so I found
Tony Quinn. That second year we were off. You know,

(42:28):
I was doing this incredible show where I was enjoying
myself immensely acting and got such a rush from the audience,
and I could spend time with my friends and I
loved it. You know, was everything awesome? No, of course not.
But overall, when I look back at Boy Mets World,
it's a wonderful experience, probably the best seven years of
my life. I think there's also something just to be

(42:48):
said for I was like twenty yeah, and you I
just wanted to change. It's just something different. It's you know,
when you're under contract, even if it's a marvelously wonderful contract,
it's you know, the golden handcuffs. Occasionally where I'm I
had to go and ask permission to get a tattoo,
If I want to get my haircut, I have to
ask permission to do that. It's just you're under contract,

(43:10):
which is you know, there's a wonderful balance to being
under contract because you're also doing what you love and
you're getting money for it, you're getting the recognition for it.
You're making people laugh to me as my drug. So
getting to do that every week in front of an
audience that was every week we saw them getting more
and more invested in the characters in the show was

(43:31):
a wonderful experience for me. So I think I I'm
one of those guys who very rarely rebelled. And when
I look back at the stuff that I did rebel on,
it was all more personally damaging. Like I started smoking
cigarettes when I was ten. I didn't, I don't. Didn't
find drinking until I was like twenty five thirty, and

(43:54):
I didn't. I never did hard drugs or any of
that kind of stuff like that. But you know, smoking
for thirty five years or whatever not a good thing.
And so that I'm sure had something to do with
my anxiety and all that kind of stuff like that.
And I think for those three months, however long I
was in Amsterdam two months, there was this moment of
it's my life and I'm leaving and doing it. Meanwhile,

(44:14):
I was under contract to write a script for Disney.
That's why I was there, So, I mean, it was
still a long chain that was attached to the parent company.
But I loved working for the parent company.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
I did.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I loved all the benefits we got. I loved all
the people we met. I loved you know, I I
love the little thing. Hey, come on, we're going to
Disney World this time we're going to Disneyland. They're shutting
down the park. So I had a lot of issues
in my life when it came to I mean again,
when it comes to the anxiety, the more I learned
about it is, you know, it's a slight tick in
my fight or flight response, but for the vast majority

(44:48):
of what I was dealing with, it was genetic. It's
a chemical imbalance. So it was it wasn't what I
was going through in my life so much as what
I was going through in my life was altered by
my physiology. So unfortunately, this thing that was the most
wonderful thing of running out in front of an audience,
of entertaining them, all of a sudden became one of

(45:10):
the most frightening things I had to do, literally in
a millisecond, because when you have that first anxiety attack,
it changes everything, everything, your whole life. So it was
it wasn't Boymet's world that did it, you know, it was.
You see people nowadays, and we've all seen them in
news and in the news or in magazines or things

(45:32):
like that, where they seem to become unhinged for lack
of a better word, in their early twenties and that's
usually when, if it doesn't hit you very early, when
a mental illness will hit you as late teen's early twenties,
as your brain is starting to finish developing. So you
know it was to me When I look back, the
regret is not that I had the anxiety. That's who

(45:54):
I am, and it's made me who I am. And
if I woke up tomorrow with no anxiety, I'm not
sure I would know what to do. I've befriended it.
It's a warm blanket that I put on every day.
The thing that upsets me is that chocolate cake was
my favorite thing, and it changed the flavor. So I
loved Boy Mets World. I loved everything about it and
the idea that it didn't steal it from me my brain.

(46:16):
You know, my brain is not my enemy. I'm I'm
in control of it. But it did alter it for me,
and that's a shame because it went from being the
most wonderful thing in the world to being scary, having
nothing to do with anything but my own physiology. So
that's that's what I deal with. I don't deal with
the same kind of we talk about unpacking. I was,

(46:37):
as writer said, I got away from you know, I
kind of carved my own niche niece for the Boy
Meets World fans out there. I carved my own niece
very early and just stuck with it, and I think
the producers and the writers respected that and let me
do my thing. And so that coupled with being with
writer and Danielle every day, being with Tony Quinn, you know,

(46:59):
in the early episodes, being in front of the audience.
Every time I look back at Boy, I smile, even
when even when we talk about some of these horrible
things that that have happened, and there are, but that's
you know, that's life, and you take them. And that's
when I look at Danielle and I look at Ryder.
They've taken the things that have happened to them and
made them the people they are. And there are two

(47:19):
people that I love almost more than anybody else on
the planet. So I wouldn't want to change anything they
went through because I don't want to change them. So
that's kind of that's how I look at it. I
think that is such a powerful way to look at it.

Speaker 6 (47:35):
If chocolate cake was my favorite cake and it changed
the flavor, so now I think that's almost like a
perfect metaphor potentially for this podcast for you guys, is
that how it has felt for any of you is
that maybe a chocolate cake wasn't your favorite flavor, Boy
Meets World wasn't like the highlight of your life, but
it was this good thing, and doing the podcast has that,

(47:56):
you know, has there been more space created for the
parts of it as well.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
I've always, i think, you know, part of maybe just
my personality or whatever, my experience Boy Meets World was
always sort of torturous for me in cert you know,
in certain regard, I've always been tortured by, uh, the experience.
So the podcast is actually just is if anything, made
it more positive because I'm sharing the experience and and

(48:24):
and reappreciating just the quality of the show, and appreciating
the quality the love of the fans, and and respecting,
you know, this part of my life that I ran
away from for so long. So for me like this
this is you know, therapeutic in a most mostly wholly
positive way. It's not, it's you know, so the unpacking

(48:48):
is like coming to terms with a lot of the
good things about Boy Meets World that I didn't allow
myself to feel out of us, I think a sense
of self preservation that fame, you know, the fame was
a source of trauma for me, and I felt out
of control. I felt like I did not get to
control my public identity from the age of thirteen on.

(49:11):
And contending with that has been very difficult because on
one hand, you know, and I know that this is
sort of a child actor thing, right, It's like, on
one hand, you want you want status back, like you
want to be acknowledged for something, for being good at
something or being you know, and you do you get
used to that, right, I got used to the idea
that people cared who right or strong was, and that

(49:33):
if I wrote something, everybody would want to read it,
or if I you know, and when you realize that
that's not the case, it's hard, you know, And it's
always been a difficult thing for me to both run
away from Boymet's world but then also acknowledge that it's
the source of a lot of great things in my life,
a source of a lot of successful things in my
life and things that I cherish. So yeah, so doing

(49:55):
this podcast is kind of right up my alley as
far as like the way I don't feel like I'm
I'm I'm rediscovering the good things about Bombing World ultimately,
Like I don't feel like i've I've always kind of
taken a slightly negative view, and I know that's kind
of hard for our fans to hear sometimes, and and
I'm I apologize for in the past. I feel like
I've you know, been disparaging about my own fans or

(50:19):
our own fans because I'm I've been so insecure and
I've run away from this part of my life. And
I feel like, for me, the podcast is a way
to embrace it and to confront it, and so it
feels good. On the whole, it feels very good.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yeah, on a somewhat related but slightly different layer, I
have gone my entire life hearing and knowing how beloved
the show was, and I just accepted it at face value.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
I thought, oh, that's so nice.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Everybody loves the show. But I did not remember anything
about it at all, And so I in my head
was always like, I don't know why, but I don't
need to know why.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
It doesn't matter. What we did was good. You think
it was good. I accept that. I don't run away
from it.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
I am I am thrilled to have played a character
that that is mostly beloved by a lot of people,
like that's a wonderful thing. I will just say thank
you and and say yes, isn't it great? But I
never really knew why. This experience for me has been.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Let's learn, let's learn what do you what?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
What?

Speaker 5 (51:20):
What is the thing?

Speaker 4 (51:20):
What are the things?

Speaker 3 (51:21):
What did we do?

Speaker 4 (51:22):
How come I don't remember what?

Speaker 2 (51:24):
What were?

Speaker 4 (51:25):
What were they?

Speaker 1 (51:25):
And then trying to embrace the positive and the negative
memories and experiences that come with that.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
And to Will's point, I'm grateful for them both.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
I love I truly love them both, even even the
bad ones that even that, even things that are like
oh man, that must have been hard, and I'll cry
thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
I don't want it to change. I just want to
understand it.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
I just want to know the role it's played and
who I am now because I I do so love
my life and I want to to me, life is
not interesting if you are not asking a million questions.
And so that's what this has allowed us to do,
and to get to know myself better and to know
the show better, and then also get to know the

(52:12):
two of these gentlemen better, and for us to deepen
our bonds and our relationships and reconnect with the people
who had such a such a hand and shaping our
memories and our childhoods and our lives.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
You know, what a what a gift.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, I have I have a quick question for you both,
because I've been curious about this. Do you think looking
back at Boy Meets World, the way we are would
be different for you both had Girl Meets World never happened.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Absolutely, Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, I mean Girl
Girl Meets World was the sort of first version of
doing this podcast for me where I could suddenly see
the dynamic of our set at being recreated in a
new context and see it as an adult. And I
made huge realizations in the course of Girl Meets World, like, oh,

(53:10):
that's the way we were talked to, that's the way
we were treated that I that is not the way
I thought it was, you know. And we can get
into details about that, but I don't know if it's
even worth it. But like, certainly, like I my brain
went through a huge reconfiguration at the age of thirty
three or whenever Girl Meets World started, where I had

(53:32):
to like adjust my perspective on the people we had
been working with and adjust my perspective on the environment
of a set. I also think just being a director
in general not only changed the way I think about,
you know, acting, like I've described, but also you realize
how limited your view is as an actor, Like when

(53:52):
an actor shows up on set, especially a kid actor,
this this thing has been primed for them and everybody
you know. And and so our worldview from Boy Meets World,
which I didn't realize until I was older and until
I took a step into the director's chair, is so limited,
like it's such a small part of the entire production experience.
And so having that awareness and being like, oh my god,

(54:14):
my worldview from Boy Meets World was like just the
tiniest liver of what was actually going going on, and
that's that was. So that was the first step in
that direction. And then I feel like, now that's mostly
you know, we're kind of continuing that journey that kind
of began with Girl Meets World.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
From me, yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. I agree with
everything you just said. And also I can say from
childhood Danielle's eyes, the adults we worked with were infallible.
I took everything they said at face value and truth
and therefore fact and thought only the highest things of

(54:53):
everyone we worked with, only every single person. Everything had
real rose colored glasses on, even when I was thirty
three years old and looking back at it, and then
when I went back to the set as an adult
with all of these anticipations and expectations of what it
was going to be and who they were and who

(55:13):
we were going to be in this this recreated environment,
and I was it.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Was shocking and just shouldn't have been so shocking.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
What like, what you are?

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Some adults have no idea what's going on?

Speaker 4 (55:28):
And you are You are actually saying things that are untrue,
but that is not the truth. Why would you say
such things?

Speaker 3 (55:36):
You're telling the kids one thing and then doing it.

Speaker 5 (55:40):
Yeah, and that's what we're talking about in the beginning.
It's like, oh, now I'm an adult. I'm an adult
in the room too, as a fellow adult. What the
hell is going on there?

Speaker 6 (55:48):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (55:49):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (55:50):
It's such a bizarre experience, and it was.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
It literally turned my little Boy meets World, turned my
world completely upside down. And all of a sudden, the
things that I the stories that I remembered, had this
new lens on them of maybe that wasn't said with
good intentions, Maybe that isn't actually the truth, maybe this
person maybe, and.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
I became like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
So I think when we went into the podcast, we
went into the podcast with this feeling of what will
this reveal to us? And I have actually been very
pleasantly surprised with what has come back, with what we've
seen with overall everything that's gone on, it has been

(56:37):
it's actually been very enjoyable and pleasant, and I am
thrilled we've done it.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, me too, Me too.

Speaker 5 (56:55):
I love that you asked that question well, because I
think that is such a unique experience, similar to what
Ryder was talking about with the play that he had done,
of like getting to come back to it with these
fresh eyes and like what that brings up positively and
negatively and remembering too. Like we've been saying, it's like
it's not all black and white. It's not all good
or bad. It's like, as humans, we want so badly

(57:16):
for it to be all good or all bad, because
that makes sense, that's comfortable. But I feel like what
this podcast has been doing is really strengthening the gray space,
because that's usually a space.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
As humans that we avoid because.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
It's so like, I don't know what to do in
this area, and this is just strengthening that area, so
there's more space in there to grow and play.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Yes, well, do you think it's change. Do you think
Girl Meets were I know you had. You know, you're
it's very limited, You're very limited, I know. But do
you think it had any impact on you as well?

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Maybe not so, I mean maybe a little bit. I
had the same experience with the adults. Yeah, but I
also knew that the kids were different than we were
because I remember saying to one of the producers on
the show, the kids, at least the weeks I've been here,
they almost never smile. And it was one of those
things where I had these memories of us running around

(58:10):
to the point where I then came back for an
episode and they all lined up in front of me
and put these big fake smiles on and they're like,
is this better? Like they literally did it as a joke.
But that also I attribute that to also kind of
the self the quote unquote selfishness of the younger generation,
just meaning you're always on your phone, you're always inside,
you know, you're you're always in your own little world
as opposed to we were our worlds back then. We

(58:32):
weren't on our cell phones. We weren't.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
We had to create our own fund.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
We did.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
We sat, We sat in our director's chairs and talked
about books and movies. We fought about politics. We did
all this. I was on the set of Girl Meets World,
and you know, one actor would be in this corner
on a phone, one actor be in that corner on
his phone. They maybe talk as they walk by. It
was just a whole different vibe. Yeah, And it was
also just on a personal note, first time getting back
on camera in front of an audience in years, So

(58:57):
that was a whole other level of anxiety for me.
But yeah, I didn't have the same experience of on
Girl Meet World as anybody did. I was there for
a total of four episodes, and you know, popping in
and out for that. So I was not as not
to use this word, but tainted by girmyts World as
the two of you were. It was just kind of

(59:17):
a thing that I did and used it as a
personal experience more than anything else where. It's like, all right,
I'm using this to get back on camera and I also.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Still an actor. You know, we changed our actual role.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
I was a producer and an actor for every episode
and director. I came in as a director first.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
It was yeah, well that's the only reason, like you,
the only reason I did it is the deal was
I got to write an episode if I could be free.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Yeah. And the writing was not a great experience.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
It was just being in the writer's room was not
a not a great experience for me. And I know
that's not the norm for all writers rooms, but this
one wasn't wasn't great and it was. And the thing
that's so odd is you take you can take seven
or eight wonderful people who are in incredibly talented and
put them in a room, and that experience is not
the same as hanging out with them one on one

(01:00:05):
or two at the time or something. It's just it
changes the dynamic. Yeah, because the right the people that
were there are some of my favorite people ever. You know,
love Mark Blutman, love Manel. You know, I'm bless Matt Nelson,
I miss Matt. You know, Randy, there's some writers up
there that were just phenomenally talented and wonderful people. But

(01:00:26):
then you put them in an environment that might not
be conducive to let's throw around create you know, the
best creative ideas, and it doesn't always go the way
that it should. So yeah, Gromy's World was not an
experience that My entire takeaway from Gromiy's World is getting
back in front of an audience, looking up as I
ran out through the audience the first time ever, them
standing up and give me a standing ovation and seeing
my wife crying.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
That's what I take.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
That's what I take from Gromiy's World because I was
a wonderful memory for me and kind of the rest
of it be damned, but I was not as involved
with it as you guys were, which is why there's
such a difference for me than there was for you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
Well, and it's another thing. I mean, I wouldn't I
wouldn't change it either.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I mean I wouldn't change it because, for one thing,
those rose colored glasses that I looked back on everything
with didn't need to be there and and shouldn't have
been there. And I'm glad to have seen things from
a different lens and to have that lens on my life.
And you know, also, I mean those that show brought me.
Those children are still some of my favorite people in
the entire world. I mean, Sabrina Carpenter is literally one

(01:01:22):
of my best friends. She was a bridesmaid in my wedding.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
Like she is, she is one of the people I
am closest to in the world. I'm you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Corey foglemanis is also somebody I am still very close with.
And I love every single one of those children who
are now full grown adults with children of their own.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
In some cases they're great kids. They're just great kids.

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
Peyton does not have a kid, Kira, is there anything
you We are nearing the end of our time with you,
and so is there anything before we go that you
really want to know or another question you'd like to
ask us based on what you've learned so far, yess
kind of to wrap it all up and come back
to where we started with the parts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
When you think back to.

Speaker 5 (01:02:02):
The whole experience on Boy Meets World and with all
of the information you have now as adults and doing
this podcast, what are the parts that you think needed
to really come forward in Boy Meets World And what
were the parts that like you take with you as
an adult that king forward for Boy Meets World that
now serve you as an adult as well.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
I mean right back to the beginning of the episode,
when I was talking about things I'm unpacking in my
own personal therapy.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
That's right up there, and I think it's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I've always described Topanga as being just on the other
side of my heart, and I'm really not sure where.
You know, we've talked about like a hippie Topanga, early Topanga,
quirky Topanga, unique to Panga, was nothing like teenage Danielle.
But as Tapanga evolved over the years, and as then
Danielle has evolved over the years, there are parts of

(01:02:54):
us that are just so tied together. I can't see
where one starts and one ends, and I will be
interested to see Tapanga is very much the type a
person that Danielle is, and I will be interested to
see when we get to some of those later episodes
that I don't really remember, like the episode of Tapanga
having a nervous breakdown because her parents get a divorce.

(01:03:14):
I don't remember what the conversation around it is, but
it feels like, with little understanding I have of the
parts of Danielle that are inside that I haven't tapped into.
It feels as though Topanga has little parts of her
that she also did not tap into, that she also
protected with this kind of, you know, facade of let's

(01:03:35):
just get things done and let's be this perfectionist. And
so I want to I look forward to as I
discover more about myself while watching Boy Meets World and
doing this podcast. I look forward to almost therapizing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Is that a word?

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
Make it a word?

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I like the therapy of Tapanga and thinking about what
Tapanga may have been repressing or not experiencing, or not
tapping into, or maybe seemed off the wall. Maybe what
somebody how she could have been helped in other ways.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
So that would be such an interesting, like acting exercise
for actors to apply this together. Yeah, absolutely rich the
performance would be. That's such an interesting way of looking
at it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Yeah, righter, do you want me to go? Do you
want to go?

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
I don't know if I have an answer. Parts of gosh,
what was the question exactly?

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
Parts of myself, the parts of yourself that you think
really came forward because of Boy Meets World, but that
you find as an adult. Wow, that's a really to
keep it positive, that's a really helpful part that I
had to grow during that time and it really still
serves me as an adult.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
Definitely, story and storytelling and ability to analyze. I learned
so much from you know, you know, the like what
is it like ten thousand hours of doing something. I
feel like just we got the ten thousand hours on
Boyle's World, and for me, it didn't end up translating

(01:05:03):
to acting it, but it did translate to writing and
directing and thinking about how to break down story to
understand beats and I, you know, Michael Jacobs was incredible
about sharing that information and sharing analysis and man am
I glad uh and then also the studio teachers that
we had. I discovered intellectualism, Like I discovered that like,

(01:05:28):
oh there's a you know, I got access to the
world of books and poetry and uh. And I'm realizing
that that wasn't a coincidence. It was built into boy
Mets World. It's literally every episode we're referencing Shakespeare or something,
the great work of literature. And so I don't think
it was a coincidence that that was part of that development.
And I've always thought of those things as separate. I

(01:05:49):
always thought that, like I ran away to college. You know,
I ended up a Columbia kind of keeping my head
down and just going to classes and not acting. But
in retrospect, that was part of the same journey. Actually,
there was there was a There was this sort of
like little writer, you know, who was this budding want
to be intellectual because of Boy Meets World, because of
what our set engendered, uh, you know, in front of

(01:06:11):
the camera and behind the camera. And so I really
appreciate that and I'm carrying that into my own writing
and now I teach and and directing. It's it's I
use it all the time, and I'm so grateful for that. Yeah,
it cannot I mean, that's just what an opportunity.

Speaker 6 (01:06:27):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
The thing I took with me from Boy Meets World
is the harsh and wonderful realization that all of this
is temporary. So let the beauty wash over you when
it's there, because eventually none of this matters anymore. So
for all of us. You got to love while we can,
and love the people that are around us, and our
friends and our family, and you're gonna have moments that

(01:06:52):
are incredible and moments that aren't so good, and they
all make you who you are and and then it's over,
So enjoy it. Why you can? I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Yeah, I think that can be a powerful for me.

Speaker 5 (01:07:05):
I know that is a helpful outlook when the anxiety
takes over, when depression takes over, things take over. It's
like remembering, like you said, zooming out, being like this
is a blip in the in the universe, and just
cherish what is good and ride through the waves of what's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Not so good. Yeah. Well, I mean when I when
I listen to Writer and Danielle, a lot of times
when they talk about their biggest regret, it's not being
able to it's wanting to go back and tell themselves
to relax and enjoy it more. Yeah, And I think
that's one of the things. I think that's an important thing,
is enjoy the moment you're in, even the bad ones.
You might not enjoy it today, but it's going to

(01:07:41):
matter to you. It's going to mean something. So we
need the bad to have the good. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Well, Kira, thank you so much for being here with
us and sharing your wisdom. Thank you for listening to
every episode. I I'm so happy you were here with
us for this.

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
You were the perfect person. I mean you really were.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
You couldn't have found a more perfect person to help
guide this episode for us. So I will give all
of your socials and everything. Kira can be found on
social media platforms at Kira k I E r A
m U s c A r A. Did I say
your name right?

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
Kira Muscara, Kira Muscara Pretty Muscarra. Yeah, I'd like to
make lair on it. It's like the makeup Okay. So
everyone wants to make it rhyme or do something just
Kira list.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
I get the same thing Danielle Fischell. People want to
say and I go, oh, it doesn't rhyme, It doesn't rhyme.
It's yeah, it's just Danielle Fisher.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Everyone gets right all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
Yeah, Phil Freedom, super Phil Freedom. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
So, Kira can be found on social media platforms at
Kira Muscarra, Mascara and online at Kira Muscara dot com.
And we want to alert everyone of nine to eight eight,
which is a number you can now dial as the
National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. It is a great general
resource for anyone seeking urgent mental health support. And Kira

(01:09:06):
recommends Psychology Today dot com Alma and Headway for anyone
who is looking for a therapist of their own. So, Kira,
thank you so much. Everyone go give her a follow
and yeah, thank you for being here with us. Everyone
as always, Thank you, Kia.

Speaker 5 (01:09:21):
Thanks, thank you guys so much for having me and
for just keeping the conversation open throughout the whole experience.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Come back for season three. We'll just keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
I can't believe how much we just talked.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
I'm sure there will only be more unpack on when
you do come back. I think you by this point
you've realized with how much we talk, we each get
about one question.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Yeah, I think we're gonna go off. I'm sure maybe
we should do individual therapy sessions with Kara. We should
just do an episode. That's just.

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
Well, thank you so much, Kira, Thank.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Bye, bye bye. Well that was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
We talked a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
That was the That was the roller coaster equivalent of
the Goofy Sky School.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Were you tense? Were intense?

Speaker 5 (01:10:14):
Will?

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
I was? Yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
I just it's I just it's very it's a personal thing,
you know, it's just a very personal thing. Therapy. So
the idea of you know, talking about boy Metrol and
putting in the context of boy Metrol is different for
me than sitting down and you know, you have a
bond with your therapist. And I didn't know this woman,
and she's wonderful, but it's it's kind of like, hey,
let's talk about some of your stuff now. To everybody,
it's just I don't know, it's weird to me.

Speaker 4 (01:10:38):
Will doesn't like to talk to people about politics. Uh, therapy, Yeah,
money makes yeah, don't.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
I'm an open wound. I've just you know, it's it's
one of the reasons I've only gone to therapy a
couple of times and never for anything any extended period
of time. And I think it's partly because I'm always
therapizing my therapy.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
That's the word I came up with, therapus.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
I am constantly, you know, and I think, much to
the dismay of my wife and my friends in my life,
I'm always like psychoanalyzing myself and discussing it. But yeah,
I should probably compartmentalize that and actually pay somebody to
do it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
It's wonderful if you find the right person. It's absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
It really is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
And I again I did it for a finite amount
of time when I had my when anxiety is really
bad a couple of years. But it was great. It's
just you're sitting there, somebody's you know, somebody who's trained
to do it, is sitting and listening to you talk
and analyz. It's really helpful. It's really helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Yeah, I'm I'm loving it and writer to your point,
I am also like always questioning always, but truthfully, there
have been things that I reached a point where I.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
Was like, I don't have an answer to this. I
don't know why I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
I'm questioning. I'm going like what what is this? Where
are these emotions coming from?

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
Where? What is this happening?

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Like I had a total wall about certain things like
and behavior i'd like to change where I like to
think I could just power through it and mind over
matter and change this behavior, but like occurring behavior that
I just can't seem to change, and so it's like
I obviously need help for that. And it's so it's
been truly, it's been truly incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Well, there's also there's things that you don't recognize in
yourself that you need somebody else to point out to
you where it's like I didn't even know that I
was doing that. It's like, yeah, you you are, and
you can talk about that too. So self realization. Self
actualization is absolutely wonderful, but occasionally need somebody who's just
staring at the painting to go, like, we need to
talk about this part too.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
That's exactly right, It's exactly right. Well, thank you all
for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World.
We've hope You've hope you cried like I did. You
can follow us on Instagram pod meets World Show.

Speaker 4 (01:12:37):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
You can follow us on Instagram at pod meets World Show.
You can send us your emails pod meets World Show
at gmail dot com. And as always, we have.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Merch Tell me about your merchandise.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Pod meets Worldshow dot com. We'll see y'all next time.
Writer send us out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
We love you all, pod dismissed. Podmeets World is an
iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and
Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive
in charge of production, Danielle Romo, Producer and editor Tara
Sudbach producer, Jackie Rodriguez, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan
Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon.

(01:13:19):
You can follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show
or send us an email at Podmeats World Show at
gmail dot com.