Jaleel White Meets World

When it comes to quintessential TGIF interviews, this week, we DID do that. We’re jumping across the ABC multiverse to the world of “Family Matters” to hang out with Steve Urkel himself…Jaleel White!
 
The gang bonds with Jaleel over their experience growing up on a sitcom and find out why he was skeptical of a “Family Matters” reboot!
 
Urkel started as a guest star and grew to become the face of the network, an unbelievable transition he details in his brand new memoir!
 
Plus, we hear (what his NDA allows) about his new Star Wars role in Skeleton Crew, on a new, ‘90s fever dream, Pod Meets World!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
We spent quite a bit of time together recently and
with our well, Susan was not with us, so I
was gonna say with our significant others, but Susan was missing.
But we learned something about Writer's wife, Alex that came
up in conversation, and then the same thing was reiterated
the next day also by Writer and Will and I

(00:39):
then talked about it on the way.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Home, like, wow, what is it Alex?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Alex said when we so, Alex is a great cook
and she loves food, which and it's one of the
many things I love about Alex because I also love food.
I don't love to cook as much, but I love food,
So I can talk about food with Alex for a
long time time. And then Alex was talking about how
she doesn't like a casual, on the go dinner, like

(01:07):
if she has to have a casual kind of on
the go dinner that doesn't involve a whole setup and
a sit down, she feels like it ruins her day,
like that's a bad day if she doesn't have a
good dinner.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
And then she mentioned she.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Was talking about she was gonna send me some recipe ideas,
and I said, oh, you don't do a taco Tuesday, and.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
She goes, I hate tacos, and I was like, what's
huh hate tacos?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Like, what.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
About tacos? Exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's kind of a bunch of really good stuff in
a really good thing.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, Like what's really do not like about it?
And I thought huh.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
And then we talked about what it is and she
was like, I just feel like tacos are not a
sit down worthy meal.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
And I was like, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
I started I was asking her about home state tacos. Yeah,
She's like, I like him for breakfast, that's fine. And
then the next day writer said, I hate tacos.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Tacos really the biggest problem with this is that we
live in like Taco Central. We live in East La Highland,
the greatest, the greatest tacos, the straightest street tacos ever.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
We have a friend for his fiftieth.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
We went on a taco crawl with a professional taco guy,
taking us to all the different street tacos. We had
cheek tongue like all these amazing guacamullys or different salt
it was, and I could not care less. We were
just like, okay, we'll go along.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, I just don't.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
I'm just tacos.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
This is not you know.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
I think maybe it's it's an embarrassment of riches. I
don't know, like everywhere I wear the Taco shirt.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, you wear the Taco shirts, wear shirt the product.

Speaker 6 (02:56):
I mean, it was so funny because we're like we're
sitting in the airport yesterday. It's just like, why do
they tell you that he hated tacos.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
It's it's such a big thing for so many of
our friends because like that's what we do, especially with kids.
You go to tacos, you make tacos, and you go
get tacos down the street, and like everybody in La
like they.

Speaker 5 (03:17):
Have the best tacos. Uh, And we're always like no,
can we can we do something?

Speaker 6 (03:21):
Is it just tacos? Do you like Mexican food?

Speaker 5 (03:23):
I don't really like Mexican food, though.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
I liked California Northern California Mexican burritos and if anybody
knows like the Mission District burritos.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
I'm blanking on some of the names, but like San
Francisco style britos, which you can't find in La.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Explain San Francisco.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
It's a gigantic it's it's basically there's nothing. I don't
know exactly what's super special about it, except that it's
just the flavor profile, like whatever they do in San
Francisco and farther north, like what I grew up with
the places of assholes called Viva Mexico that I grew
up going to. They're just they're just giant burritos with
you know, normal like I usually do vegetarian. But then

(04:02):
there's also you know this carnitas and chicken, but tons
of guacamole, sour cream, cheese.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
But there's something.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
I think it's the rice and beans, this particular flavoring
of the rice and beans that you just don't find
in La.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
Oh and I still haven't found it in La.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
If anybody's listening, please tell me where I can get
a San Francisco style burrito in LA. I will, Oh
my god, I'm so But other than that, like you know,
the La, there's two models of La Mexican restaurants. There's
like really traditional Mexican restaurants where they're like those dark
caves that you go into, you know, like style, right,
And usually I enjoy the.

Speaker 5 (04:35):
Food, but I just like my stomach just can't handle it.
I have such a black boys stomach. I'm such a
I don't like spicy things. And then, yeah, tacos, you know,
street tacos. It's like I'd rather go sit down somewhere
and haven't meal.

Speaker 6 (04:48):
That's right, you were gonna be the first one to
tap when we go on hot ones. Finally, Oh my god,
I can't know.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
I can't do anything spicy because even if I enjoy
it while I'm eating it, my stomach will be in
so much pain for days.

Speaker 5 (04:59):
Yeah, it's not worth it.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
What else do you hate?

Speaker 5 (05:01):
Writer?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Let's get a few more things out of the way.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
What else?

Speaker 1 (05:04):
We know a few things will hate. We've already done that.
You guys heard me go on about art, so I
don't have to share anymore.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
What else do you hate?

Speaker 7 (05:09):
Writer?

Speaker 5 (05:09):
I just feel like I've said I hate a lot. Yeah, jazz?

Speaker 6 (05:14):
So then wait, I'm sorry, because Daniel and I on
Wednesday are going to Taco Jazz Night? Are you not
going to be where?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
You're not coming Taco jazz night?

Speaker 5 (05:22):
I'll be at this sushi poetry reading a.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
More or less honestly, will and I will go to
that Insteady, that sounds good too, I.

Speaker 6 (05:29):
Won't listen to the poetry, but I'll be all day long. Yeah,
I don't care. Yeah what rhymes with with Sabbi my friend?
That's all I gotta know.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Welcome to Pond meets World. I'm Danielle Offishal, I'm right
or Strong, and I'm Wilfordell.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
If nineties tgif Programming was a baseball team, Boy Meets
World would have hit in the eight spot. Sure we'll
get run opportunities and some highlight worthy sacrifice buns, but.

Speaker 5 (05:55):
None of this makes any sense to me, no idea.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
I'm with you, I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Just go to sleepwriter, But the truth is, don't look
for any electric power and four hundred and fifty foot
home runs from us. We were the last position player
before the terribly hitting pitcher, so we knew our role
and were thankful to be in the majors. But this
week's guest he was the clean up hitter, the franchise player,

(06:21):
the young man behind the world renowned Family Matters character
Steve Erkele, a role that was originally cast to be
a one and done appearance and then turned into a
cultural phenomenon. Over nine seasons, he was the face.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Of Erkele Dolls and Erkle Oh's.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
But most importantly, he was the face of a successful
and rare black family sitcom on Network TV. In addition
to the iconic and lovable Nerd, he'd voice Sonic the
Hedgehog and the early animated renditions of the character, and
appear on shows like Bones, Castle, and Psych, eventually also
appearing on Dancing with the Stars and next up for this.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Busy man, the soon to.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Be released Star Wars Skeleton Crew on Disney Plus. He
also just released a memoir, Growing Up Arkle, finally telling
his story and detailing the peaks, valleys, and plateaus of
fame and fortune.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
So this week on Pod Meets.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
World, we are thrilled to welcome a Hall of Fame
nineties kid actor and a well adjusted grown up in
twenty twenty four, It's jilliel White.

Speaker 7 (07:26):
Yeah hear me?

Speaker 6 (07:29):
Yeah? Do you hear us?

Speaker 5 (07:32):
I can hear you?

Speaker 7 (07:33):
Just fine?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Okay, good welcome.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
We are so excited to have you here with us.
Even though Boy Meets World aired after you, I still
feel like you are just are very very strong lead.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
In and you are now you still are. Did you
even know Boy Meets World existed?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Oh? Very much. So you can really you guys, and
you ever brought into replaces, you guys right in replaces
now that I understand it the way I understand it now, yeah,
I get it, but I would.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Love to hear that. Please explain that to us.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
No.

Speaker 8 (08:13):
So, so, all the shows on TGIF were originally all
the shows on TGIF were originally owned by one of brothers.
And this is the part of the business, guys, that
you know, we were never privy to as young performance.
And when it became legal for Disney to begin making

(08:34):
their own content for their own network, that was illegal
before nineteen ninety six, you could not do that network
add to order their their properties from other studios.

Speaker 7 (08:47):
That that's what creates a fair market in capital.

Speaker 8 (08:50):
So once they were allowed, the big crunch happened, and
then Universal merged with NBC, and Disney bought up ABC
and they all start the all started hustling to own
their for verticality.

Speaker 7 (09:03):
They wanted to get rid of us.

Speaker 8 (09:06):
So the first show that they did that was in
house cooked was was was Bringing a Teenage Witch And
Melissa is a genius. Her mom is a gangster. Yes,
her mom is a complete gangster. And uh, they got
the rights to uh Sabrina and they did a movie

(09:29):
of the week.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
For proof of for proof of.

Speaker 7 (09:31):
Concept, Yeah, yep.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
For Paula bought it for a dollar. She walked in
and she bought it for a dollar for.

Speaker 8 (09:38):
Proof of concept, and then she marched herself in there
and she sold that concept to to ABC Disney Touchstone
at the time, and they're like, great, you're you're going
to replace Family Matters and step by step because we
own you guys.

Speaker 7 (09:56):
So that's so.

Speaker 8 (09:57):
I think a lot of times sometimes people don't understand
the business something and how that affected us. So if
I had been owned by let's say, Disney, then I
probably would have ended up working with you guys or
doing co promotion. If I had gotten off of Warner
Brothers books and said, hey, I've had a big little
tantrum holdout or something and said I'm not working anymore

(10:17):
unless my contract is with Disney for future future endeavors.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
But you know, I.

Speaker 8 (10:23):
Didn't have none of us people kids, none of us
had representation that would ever stick their neck out.

Speaker 7 (10:32):
For a kid and to piss off business affairs. No
kidding Me's not happened.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yes, I mean that is leading into my My next
question was, I would love to imagine between Will's genius
brain and your genius brain. Could we imagine an Eric
and Erkle crossover moment?

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Please? What would that crossover have been.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
If?

Speaker 8 (10:55):
I'll tell you if, if, if somehow my contract had
changed immediately after after Disney brought ABC and I became
more of a Disney employee, Yeah, I promise you that
would have happened.

Speaker 6 (11:12):
Yea, yeah, yeah, I think it would have too.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
Immediately. Yeah, And we never did a crossover with you.

Speaker 8 (11:20):
We didn't do a crossover because you were owned by
two different studios.

Speaker 5 (11:23):
Wow, shees.

Speaker 7 (11:25):
Meanwhile, I did a crossover with everybody.

Speaker 8 (11:26):
They put me on step by step, they put me
on full, they put because those are all Wanner Brothers shows.
So that's why it's like sometimes it's tough and you
just gotta got to take it on the chin with
fans and people, well why didn't you and why didn't you?
Like guys, it was all different back then. It was
about ownership. It was about you know, companies growing and
gaining control and.

Speaker 7 (11:45):
All this other stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
And it's like, you know, at the end of the day,
we were kids having fun exactly.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
I wouldn't have.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
I wouldn't have known the first thing about that me neither. No,
you and I both have something other than just being
on a T G I F show in common. Both

(12:12):
Urkle and Topanga were originally intended to be one time
guest stars on.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
The case.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
That we also found that out. Recently we had Danica
McKellar on and she playing Winnie Cooper. It was the
same thing for her. She was also supposed to be
a one off episode.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, do you imagine that show without Winnie exactly?

Speaker 8 (12:37):
So?

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Do you remember your audition for Steve Rkle.

Speaker 7 (12:42):
I remember it very very well, I really do. Nobody
wanted the job.

Speaker 8 (12:47):
Everybody wanted the job of the Q kid that was
supposed to, you know, the good looking kid, and Laura
had the big crush on because they thought that would
be a recurring like it's some type of boyfriend care right, and.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
You know that.

Speaker 7 (13:01):
It just it just went the way it went. It was.
I remember the first time I went, nobody dressed up
as a nerd.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
I did.

Speaker 8 (13:09):
I talked about that in my book, and nobody dressed up.
And then in the second audition, all of a sudden,
I had two or three guys dressed up as me.

Speaker 7 (13:20):
I'm like, oh man, it's messed up.

Speaker 8 (13:25):
I dressed up last time for the first one, and
and and now I got copycats. So what I did
to try to give myself steal a leg up was
I walked into the room and I introduced myself to
the producers aste vertical in character.

Speaker 7 (13:39):
I never I never let them meet delete break it.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Yeah, so great.

Speaker 7 (13:45):
I just walked right in and just and just start
playing a character.

Speaker 5 (13:48):
And how old were you at this point?

Speaker 7 (13:49):
I was twelve?

Speaker 6 (13:50):
Wow? What year was this? What year did step did?
Did family?

Speaker 7 (13:55):
Where you were?

Speaker 8 (13:57):
Some of you were not even born, you were your
fathers some of you No, it was eighty nine.

Speaker 6 (14:05):
I remember this because you'll never I'm sure never remember
this because it was just a day in your life,
but it was an hour of your life. But to me,
it was magical. So I was on a Nickelodeon show
at the time in New York, and once a year
they would fly us out to interview the big stars
of the television shows that we all grew up watching.

(14:25):
And I went to the set of Family Matters. Oh,
and I interviewed you and a number of the other
actors and It was the first time I was ever
on a sitcom set, and it was sitting watching one
of your run throughs that made made me go, this
is what I need. I have to do this, I
have to be here.

Speaker 7 (14:42):
I don't know why, but I do slightly remember that.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, you, but we would have people sometimes.

Speaker 8 (14:49):
As a guest watch out run through. Obviously that ever happened.

Speaker 7 (14:53):
We were just as excited to perform for you as
you may have been to watch us. So I'm sure
I greeted you and was like, so so I did.

Speaker 6 (14:59):
Oh no, you were very you were very all. Everybody
was very very sweet. We interviewed you, Reginald vel Johnson,
we've introyed some of your cast members, and it was
just a magical day in my life and career. You
were very, very nice to me, but it was what
I was.

Speaker 7 (15:13):
One of the biggest compliments I got was just recently.

Speaker 8 (15:17):
Actually, I ran into Ashton and Mela at a at
the opening of Into Its Dome here in La and
Mila was like, I have to pay you a big compliment,
and I'm like, oh, Mila, Kuna said a big compliment.

Speaker 5 (15:29):
Information.

Speaker 8 (15:31):
I met you at the l Capitan Theater and I
just recognized you and I said hi. And I had
not even done like one major job yet, I was
still trying to break into the business. And you just
said the most encouraging things to me. When my agent,
I guess her agent was with her at this at

(15:52):
this screening, and you just talked to me like I
was already in the business.

Speaker 7 (15:58):
I just I thought that was It was such a
huge compliment to.

Speaker 8 (16:00):
Me because to a certain degree, I know I'm a performer,
but I kind of feel just like destined to be
in this business. My parents never tried to put me
in this business for any other reason. They're making money
to go to college. We had no like sneaky ulterior
motives about anything. So I've always been able to just
see other talent, no matter where they were in their growth,

(16:26):
you know, Like you know, there's so many people I
became friends with before they even blew up. Lamar and Morris,
who just won an Emmy. I met that dude at
a friends giving. I just thought he was the funniest
guy at the friends giving before he'd ever done a
single commercial, And before I know what, I look up
in two years and he's got ten national commercials on
the air and he's going on a new girl. So

(16:48):
I really take pride in having met people who have
gone on to become something in this business because it
reminds me it's still a spiritual journey, this thing of
being able to communicate with people.

Speaker 6 (16:59):
Well, you met me, so.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
You mentioned that, just kind of intuition almost, of knowing
to walk into the room and to address to introduce
yourself as Steve Rkle.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Where do you think that came from.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
By the time Family Matters came around and you were twelve,
you had already had quite a bit of experience right
in the in the industry.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (17:22):
I auditioned plenty. I'd done about fifty national commercials. Wow,
I had full of television guest spots. Shows you guys
that wanted to remember the Jeffersons, Mister Belvidere or stuff. Yes,
and but really, honestly, I was just a kid that
was desperate to get a freaking Saga Genesis, and I
was really pissed off those guys dress like me.

Speaker 7 (17:42):
It wasn't deep. I'm a competitive dude, you know. I
got to grab some more rebounds to win the game.
That's just who I am as a person, and you.

Speaker 8 (17:51):
Know, people were just like, that's such genius method acting whatever.
It was like, Nah, these guys copy my steeves. So
I just I had to do something.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
At the next level.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
I mean what you didn't know at the time is
that you probably already had the part. Just knowing that
they have actually informed those other guys to dress like
you means that you had already defined the character.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
You know, like you had that part the second you
want to.

Speaker 7 (18:12):
By the way, I tell her, never do that again.
She's just literally probably the most delicious plate of food while.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
You're podcasting the middle of a podcasts, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Eat your waffle.

Speaker 6 (18:24):
No one will mind to say, I'm advocating now for
we all get waffles podcast new thing.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Everyone loves to hear people too.

Speaker 6 (18:34):
That an apple slice?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Did she peel the apple for you? Is that is?

Speaker 6 (18:41):
Oh my god?

Speaker 5 (18:43):
Nice?

Speaker 6 (18:44):
Nice?

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Or do you you.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Know?

Speaker 5 (18:53):
But we did well?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Is amazing? This is phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
O my god, apples, peeled apples and waffles every morning.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Listen, you are living the life.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
So we have talked a lot on this podcast about
never really feeling like our jobs were very safe as
child actors for at least the first couple of years
of the show, we were always thinking, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
We're lucky to be here. They oh my gosh, this
is such a blessing.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
We are just an and every week of not being
fired feeling a little bit.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Of like a who okay, not this week. When did
you have that feeling?

Speaker 1 (19:39):
And if so, when did you start to realize, oh,
Rkle is here to stay.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Dah, you're gonna laugh at this, but we got play.

Speaker 7 (19:50):
It was all by design to always make all of
us feel yeah.

Speaker 8 (19:54):
Yeah, And you know it was smart to some degree
because it kept egos in check. But I believe there
was a point, probably after even the second season or
somewhere around there, where we had multiple year pickups that
were understood between the studio and the network.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
And we're just not told I'll never.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Forget, I'll never forget doing a a another series on UPN.

Speaker 7 (20:20):
And one of our coworkers after probably about I don't
know about the fourth or fifth episode, he bought a
new car. Remember those land cruisers were a big deal.
Oh yeah, he bought a land Cruiser.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Right.

Speaker 8 (20:31):
He came pulling up and I remember one of the
producers tapping me on the elbow and was like you see,
you see he just bought a new Land Cruiser.

Speaker 7 (20:40):
I guess we got him for a steal next year.

Speaker 8 (20:44):
It's a diabolical business that way, and it's really unfortunate
that that discourse and that conversation is not more average.

Speaker 7 (20:55):
Yeah, sometimes when I have these kinds of.

Speaker 8 (20:57):
Conversations with people like I actually probably wouldn't, but I
know you guys are savvy bets and bets and you've
been through the you know, the ring or two.

Speaker 7 (21:05):
So it's fun for me to.

Speaker 8 (21:07):
Kind of exchange and be like, Okay, well what do
you know? Here's what I but you know that feeling.
I talk about it in my book Growing Up, Check
it out.

Speaker 6 (21:16):
We have lots of work, so I'm just proud of that.

Speaker 7 (21:19):
Not everybody does the audio, but I did my own audio.

Speaker 8 (21:22):
But there's this whole section I talk about that because
I had lunch with Leslie Moon best I was. I
was really lucky at a young age with some of
the head honchos that I would regularly have a brunch
with or a lunch. And I remember when Friends was
going through their negotiation, and I talk about that negotiation
in my book because he was just sharing me, sharing

(21:43):
with me details that if they knew, maybe they would
have behaved differently. So everything is just a is a
pyramid of information, and Daniel, they made a point to
make you feel that way at the bottom of the pyramid,
even though you mattered so much to the show.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Absolutely, And we have also talked a lot on the
podcast now about how much we have realized.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
People in power.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Had to gain by knowing we did not feel comfortable
talking to each other about things.

Speaker 7 (22:14):
Oh yeah, divided conquer, total divided conquer.

Speaker 8 (22:17):
And I remember there was a to answer your question
more directly though. I remember there was a banner placed
above our audience and it said congratulations on your first.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
One hundred episodes. And I'm like sixteen years old at
this point, so.

Speaker 7 (22:34):
I'm like our first right, And I knew it.

Speaker 8 (22:38):
Wasn't a TYPEO. So that really was my indicator that
wait a minute, what's going on here when you say
congratulations on your first one hundred episodes?

Speaker 7 (22:48):
But every season, around the eighteenth or nineteen episode, they
you know, they said, well we heard from the network today.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah we're bash right right right, yeah, or we're on
the bubble and everyone's going to need to not everyone's
going to need to take a pay cut. Everyone's going
to not you know, we're notagotiate next year now exactly.

Speaker 8 (23:08):
So all of that was by coordinated design to keep
people in their places. You know, you should talk to
Miam b Alex sometimes. Man, her Blossom stories are the
most gangster stuff I've ever heard. Sometimes it's not even
a white, black, or gender issue. It's just you know,
youth being taken advantage of for what they didn't know.
You know, she didn't make very much money off of Blossom,

(23:30):
but she's such a you know, a destined person that
she made up for it on Big Bang No Bit.

Speaker 6 (23:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Now, Family Matters ended up doing two hundred and fifteen
episodes amazing, So that banner was absolutely true. That wasn't
even just wishful thinking. You guys did multiples of one
hundred episodes.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
That's incredible, No, and we knew that by the time
we came in, So we were we Our first season
was ninety three. Yep, you guys were the rock off.
You were the reason that TGIF was allowed to have
new shows like ours come in and so like, you know,
if we had ever talked, if anybody had ever asked
us we'd have been like, well, family matters is set
for forever, like that's not going anywhere. It's yeah, I

(24:16):
mean to get rid of us, and you're no, they
were relying on you. They were you know, the whole
night was basically, you know, an experiment that Disney was
playing because they could rely on your show.

Speaker 5 (24:29):
That's crazy.

Speaker 7 (24:31):
And then it became you.

Speaker 5 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, well then Sabrina.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Really, I mean, like so we we we always had
our audience like sort of eking out.

Speaker 5 (24:39):
But we were Touchstone. But we weren't. You know, Disney.
ABC didn't own Disney until ninety six.

Speaker 8 (24:46):
I'm saying that's the greatest thing that ever happened to
you guys, can remember we do remember you guys being
on behind us. Once Disney bought ABC, it was like
you were.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
Made and everyone else was Yeah jeez.

Speaker 8 (25:02):
Acquisition alone extended you guys existence probably by about four
to five seasons.

Speaker 6 (25:07):
Yeah, probably, yeah, probably, except when we were three seasons
in so as somebody who you you came on as
a guest star quickly essentially took over as the lead
of the show. What now I know, but you did.
You were you were the face of the show, your
face of tgif was there any resentment from any of
the actors you were working with that you know, it

(25:28):
kind of became your show.

Speaker 7 (25:30):
I mean, you know, that's that's a.

Speaker 8 (25:32):
Question that I've fielded thousands of times, and so as
a courtesy to my my, my, my former co stars,
you know, I it was clearly bumpy in the beginning,
but we really did become a family, you know, and
I think any animosity that I felt from the kids
was more because of chatter that they were hearing from adults.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Totally.

Speaker 7 (25:55):
I've long forgiven Kelly and Darius.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
You know, we are like brothers and sisters, Kelly, Darius,
and Laura and Eddie in particular, you know, because I
see our adolescents our childhood as.

Speaker 8 (26:07):
One quite frank, and it's so much better. I'm just
in a space to tell so much more fun stories
about the stuff that we did as teenagers growing up
side by side. You know, I couldn't drive. I remember
I met a girl at an award show and I
was sixteen, and I was just taken by her. And

(26:28):
in the moment that I got her number on a napkin,
the original tender, right, I realized I was like, oh,
I can't drive, and I'm like, I've been on this
show and just doing you know, schoolwork and whatever. In
I here, I am sixteen and I can't drive, and
the idea of my mother taking us anywhere was out of.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
The question, not happening.

Speaker 8 (26:52):
I went to work the next day and I asked Darius, Darius,
by the way, it's only six months different in age
from me, and most people don't know.

Speaker 7 (27:00):
So you know, Eddie.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Winslow and Steve were only six months apart in age
in real life, and Garius like and thirty pounds driving
his mom to work in a fresh BMW at fourteen
years old out a licenress.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Oh my god.

Speaker 8 (27:16):
Darius was a character on our set that I think
translates better as a character on screen, quite frankly. And
I was like, yo, man, like can you drive me
on my date? And He's like, looks at me like
I'm not a chauffeur, Like she got a friend. And
that's that's where the story begins in my book.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Oh man, I love it so much.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So where did the cadence for did I do that?
Come from?

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Will also had a catchphrase on Boy Me World. He
didn't know it at the time. That it was a catchphraise,
but over the years it has become one. But in
the script it would just be Feenie. And he took
that word Phoeni and turned it into what we now
know as the Phoenie call. And it just came from
the deep recesses of Will's comedic mind.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Where did did I do that come from? For you?

Speaker 7 (28:20):
You're so smart? Deep recesses. You should have been a
late night journalist, baby, you should be a lawyer. Gave
it up in this damn sitcom.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
No, you know what.

Speaker 8 (28:35):
They tried a million darn catchphrases, and the first one
that they ever tried really was Steve would just bump
into inanimate objects, uh at end table or a lamp
knocking over and be like and say excuse me.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
That was excuse me.

Speaker 8 (28:50):
Then they tried to borrow one that was already in existence.

Speaker 7 (28:55):
I fall in and I can't get up. We did
that one for a while. We did about three of them,
and just did I do that?

Speaker 8 (29:03):
Just stuck And it's just it's one of those things
you you lob them out to the audience and.

Speaker 7 (29:09):
You know it's you.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
It's back. Then was completely about the immediate audience.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
Reaction.

Speaker 7 (29:16):
Yeah, has had live studio audience to tell you in
real time what was working. There was no social media,
there was no you didn't.

Speaker 8 (29:24):
Hear from I think that's the thing I miss most
about our era though, of televisions.

Speaker 7 (29:29):
We didn't have to hear from haters.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Rights board, people who hated us or disliked us, or
thought our show was terrible.

Speaker 8 (29:38):
It's like, you thought our show was terrible, you didn't watch,
or maybe you were a TV critic and you bashed us.
And we were kids anyway, so I'm sure they told
you the same crap they told us.

Speaker 7 (29:46):
All those critics don't know what they're talking about. Look
at our ratings. And then that was That was the
end of it.

Speaker 8 (29:50):
And now you're an adult and you're like, no, no, no,
you got some of these critics. Got to like your
stuff if you want to ever get to the gold
and globes, you know.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
So we weren't really taught.

Speaker 7 (29:59):
That way at all.

Speaker 8 (30:00):
But catch rises had just sent me a love out
to the audience, and they latch onto it, and they
latch onto it, and for us, by the third or
fourth tribe, they caught on to Did I do that?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Oh my god, man, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I remember when we came back and did Girl Meets
World and the hardest, you know, I went into it thinking, oh,
I'm so excited to be an adult to help guide
these kids through this journey. And sure they're social media now,
but you know, I didn't really know how that was
going to play into it. And then I remember doing
our first live studio audience taping and the kids walking

(30:35):
off stage after doing their curtain call and picking up
their phones and already seeing the people who had been
in the audience reading the things they had been posting about,
things they liked, things they didn't like, tensions they thought
they were picking up on between the kids.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
And here we had just finished a show.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
They should be on such a high of what they
had just accomplished and how much fun they had and
the whole journey of the week, and all of them
and their faces dropping.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Oh they said that this wasn't funny. It's like, oh no.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
Even worse to me is that the writing staff is
also checking all of that. So it's like the.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Creativity of the show itself is now being made, and
this is across the board is now being made in
response to the audience's reaction in real time.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
But again our audi but are our writer? Are all
of those you know, are all of those immediate responses authentic?

Speaker 5 (31:32):
Exactly?

Speaker 8 (31:34):
Some of those people are just epping with you and
play a game of choose your own adventure with somebody
they don't even particularly even care about totally and affecting
it because it's like they.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Want to be heard.

Speaker 8 (31:43):
Like have you ever responded to somebody who left a
negative post on lack on your babe? Like you just
couldn't resist and you're like, I'm going back at this
pool right and the person's.

Speaker 7 (31:53):
Like, oh my god, like you really hit me back.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
You're a human being exactly you are feeling.

Speaker 7 (31:58):
It's like you just said the most biting, hurtful.

Speaker 8 (32:02):
Rest on a come if you don't know me at all,
and really you only did it as big to get
me to actually see you.

Speaker 7 (32:12):
Oh man.

Speaker 8 (32:12):
That's that's a sad psychological existence, and it's around us hugely.

Speaker 7 (32:18):
We were on set, guys, we were present.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
You know, I'm dripping while.

Speaker 7 (32:22):
We're cracking jokes on each other, you know, you know
we're trying.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
When we got cars, Oh man, I used to love
to go to city walk that was our thing. Yes,
And it was like we didn't even have time to eat.

Speaker 7 (32:33):
We just wanted to get there, park our car and
just walk around, and then.

Speaker 8 (32:36):
We had to rush back to the set, like you know,
you're not getting a city walk for Warner Brothers in
an hour having a real time.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
We would literally go there just to order something and
feel fancy and be like, can we take it to go?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Those are the days we'd go see a movie. We'd
walk around. Now we'd go see movies at the end
of our work days, not in the middle of the day.

Speaker 8 (32:55):
Well, okay, I'm asking to admit something that most people wouldn't.
But back back in the day, we would sometimes go
to the mall to be recognized.

Speaker 6 (33:06):
At the mall all the time.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
I was just there anyway. Also, I was at the
Topanga mall, so.

Speaker 8 (33:14):
It was, oh my gosh, you could not have ever
step foot in the Topanga mall.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
She choose to go mall.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's my closest mall, and they should do their advertise
the mall with your face.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
You go to the Topago mall.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
She chooses that that's my favorite spot.

Speaker 5 (33:33):
I love it much better celebrity than me and Will
and will to be not.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
A low self esteem day. You can take a scroll
around the Topega mall.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
If I'm ever feeling bad about myself, I just take
a walk around the bathing, bathing in the warm glow
of the of the fame. Okay, I want to talk
to you about Rock and Jock basketball. None of us
ever played in those games, but you have some amazing
photos online of like taking Reggie Miller to the whole

(34:04):
and warming up with Mark Wahlberg and Will Smith.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
What do you remember from those games?

Speaker 8 (34:09):
Rock and Jock was awesome. MTV never really liked me,
to be quite honest. It was just a testament to
the success of the show that I even ended up
in the game, and also to the infancy of Rocking Job.
The first the first celebrity basketball players they got to
participate in Rocking Job, where Dan Marley, Reggie Miller, spud

(34:31):
Web Wow, yes right, And it was like there might
have been like two of the Vloody d boch Yes Floody.

Speaker 7 (34:41):
It was so new and it didn't pay.

Speaker 8 (34:45):
So the top guys, you know, your Jordan's and your
Magic's and your Barclays, were.

Speaker 7 (34:49):
Like, I don't even know what that is.

Speaker 8 (34:52):
And the idea of also playing which celebrities was brand new.
Nobody had done that before. So I hooped and I
the ball.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
They were I think.

Speaker 8 (35:02):
I think I ended up there because MTV never really
saw me as their brand. So even after that first year,
I never got invited back. Nobody really noticed that because
the first year is your proof of concept and now
you get to get some cooler people.

Speaker 7 (35:18):
And but the cool thing about my year was this
was the year that Mark Wahlberg was still Marky Mark
of the Funky Bunch. And so I remember at halftime,
this guy I had never heard of.

Speaker 8 (35:32):
Him, Well you know, Marky Mark was going to perform
at halftime, And so I'm sitting there at halftime and
I wait for him to do his thing. And he
jumps out there with a couple of brothers and it's
a real urban set, like I almost expect a black
guy to be rapping like this. He takes his shirt off.
Girls start going crazy because he's real bumpy, all right.
So the girls started going crazy and I'm watching this

(35:55):
deck to Spun Web and Blade de Bag was like,
oh man, this got pretty good, and all of a.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Sudden, he drops his freaking drawers. He just literally just
drops his pants all the way down to the ankles
and it's hopping around in his calvins, rapping, and I'm like,
back then, I'm like, oh, he's gonna get in trouble.

Speaker 8 (36:15):
Yeah, like, this can't be.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
I'm already thinking, like a little little seasoned, little producer
or whatever. I'm like, this broadcast standard and practices tell
you something that is the greatest defiance television protocol, perhaps
in the history of Hollywood. Still, I remember that dude
was on Calvin kleinb billboards.

Speaker 7 (36:40):
All around town so fast after that.

Speaker 8 (36:44):
Any notion that I had that he was gonna get
in trouble, let's just say he was not treated like
Jane and Jackson was. She did like this.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Exactly. Yeah, not the same treatment.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
She didn't get it. She didn't get a Victoria Secret
deal out of that. You got a calvic line.

Speaker 6 (37:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, my god.

Speaker 7 (37:04):
So that's about a big memory from from Rock and Jock.
And they barely wanted me, but I had.

Speaker 8 (37:10):
A fantastic time. And yeah, because I couldn't find my
limousine at the end of it. I remember that was
when I learned that they only care about the limousine.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Picking you up. They don't get you can never find
your car. At the end of those awards.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
Shows, it was like you had to call Darius again,
like Darius.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Up.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
There is also an infamous clip online that I would
love to hear about where you teach the Erkle dance
to be Arthur at the American Comedy Awards and you
are such a.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Pro in it. What do you remember about doing that?

Speaker 7 (37:54):
You know, it's funny.

Speaker 8 (37:55):
That's one of those kind of things where I look
back at and I kind of have mixed feelings. I
do because be author was Comedic Royalty, and she was
such a nice lady.

Speaker 7 (38:09):
She was so nice to me that and all of
Comedic Royalty was in that room.

Speaker 8 (38:16):
However, that's one of those moments where people are actually
laughing at you and not with you. Because our brand
of comedy that I was doing at the time, that
family comedy, it was.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
More seen as.

Speaker 8 (38:34):
It was more seen as what a farce, how funny
it is to have be dance with this little phenomenon
kid in this way, So her participation was taken to
be funny by the elite, whereas my participation was looked

(38:57):
at to be the gimmick portion.

Speaker 7 (39:00):
And I've always said that where I'm like, you know,
I understand.

Speaker 8 (39:03):
Comedy on such a level that I'm blessed to not
that I'm a genius, Like I just get it, like
I get tone and intonation and things like that, and
I love.

Speaker 7 (39:12):
That's why I love certain stand ups to this day.

Speaker 8 (39:14):
I just want to see my boy Dave Chappelle in
New York this weekend and I watched him. I watched
him do Boston and Austin watch him do New York
back to back nights. Having that ability to watch the
difference in the crowds and how he has to change
his sets based on the region. That's the kind of
stuff I study, really when it comes to comedy. And

(39:34):
in that moment, it was like, you know, I really
wish that.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
That I had been able to perform with more people
who have been considered comedic elite.

Speaker 8 (39:45):
Because then it would have been oh, he has the
chops to when you're seen on screen with them, it's
different and my man, Yes, So there were there were
too many moments like that where we were just good, participate,
fitting people.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
And we had fun. And when I look back on
and it's like, oh, I'm the.

Speaker 8 (40:04):
Joke in that dance right right, whereas b is the
the irreverent comedic artist that's doing this with.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
The kid right.

Speaker 7 (40:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:15):
Wow, that's really insightful.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
So during your book tour, you have talked about how
you passed on the Family Matters reboot, which you know,
maybe we should have talked to you and gotten some advice.
But what is the craziest project you have said no to?
When they asked you to be Arkle as an adult?

Speaker 7 (40:49):
Diane Sawyer, you missed your call and I'm putting it
out there.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
While this woman up, I no wanted to chick but retire,
and they charge you money anyway.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
You can get me for a steal.

Speaker 7 (41:05):
Don't say that, don't You don't need to know how
much you're walking around.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Me and to pay them all.

Speaker 6 (41:13):
Congratulations on your first hundred episodes, Danielle.

Speaker 8 (41:19):
Okay, so first of all, I have I'm continuing to
set the record straight and every platform I possibly can't.
I was never offered a reboot really, okay, there was
no script, there was no producer attached. They made Fuller House,
and you know, our top executive producer, you know, really
was kind of showing me a different side of himself
unfortunately than I was really sad to see because I'm

(41:42):
really brought up just admiring this guy and putting him
on a pedestal my entire life. And he just came
to me with a blind studio contract and said, you
will get paid half the amount of money you got
paid for your you know, your on your last day
on the show, and you know we're gonna make thirteen
episodes if we sell the show, and going to create
the show.

Speaker 7 (42:00):
And I'm like, so, I don't get to see a script,
I don't have a hand in who are going to
be the showrunners.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Nothing.

Speaker 8 (42:07):
You just think in your silly mind that my life
might be so bad right now that I'll just take
half of what I made and you get to come
back to me in a holding deal within six months
and tell me when I have to report to work.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Right So, when I fraged like.

Speaker 8 (42:22):
That with people, it's like, guys, that total ain't that's
not a reboot, and b that's not a fair offer,
and and and I don't want people think. Oh and
the worst part about it was he he then said, well,
you know, Herod and carl And and Aunt Rachel, they'll
stop by from time to time, so it's hurtful to
me when I have to hear the adults sometimes talk

(42:43):
about how difficult I was, and it's there and I'm like, guys.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
The show that they he even pitched me didn't include you,
right looking, So you.

Speaker 8 (42:55):
Think I've cut you out of some you know, opportunity
to do a reboot and they have no plans to
include you, you know, right, That's what I tell you, Danny,
I said, it's about that information and how it goes down,
and if you don't know what you don't know, you
end up looking a little silly. So the worst job
that I actually turned down, though, was celebrity rehab. Yeah,

(43:19):
these efforts called.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Me and we're like, you know, you know, Juliana doesn't
have any substance abuse problems.

Speaker 7 (43:26):
And I went right around that, you know, we you know,
we like, it's the demographic for our show.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
And they offered me more money.

Speaker 7 (43:33):
They basically were like, we'll.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Pay you more to just save.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Just just take these drugs for a week and then
you're perfect, right.

Speaker 8 (43:45):
They don't the average person doesn't get it. And now
we get to do this on a zoom from allations.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Oh my god, we get offers every day to ruin
our lives.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and they come in email form exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, And you're so right that the most that the
the the feeling really is have you been irrelevant long
enough that now.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
You'll take us up on this?

Speaker 5 (44:10):
Yep?

Speaker 6 (44:11):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Right?

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Are you feeling bad enough yet that I can that
I can drop this in your email box and have
you go, well, I guess I really should make some money.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
Yeah, it's or you just want to stay in the
industry because you know, we all to be freaking still
lucky to be here.

Speaker 5 (44:26):
Yeah, have to be relevant and yeah.

Speaker 6 (44:28):
To play on that insecure, do whatever is asked of
you just to be on camera, and that's just not
the case for most of us. Like now we're I'm
not going to do that. I can't believe they wanted
you to fake a substance abuse problem to come on
Celebrity Rehab. That's insane to me. Oh wow wow.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
It is also something we've talked about on this on
this podcast.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
That another thing people don't really know is that we
have careers outside of on camera work. If they think
if they don't see us on their TV screen, we
must be out of work as opposed to not working
on camera anymore, which maybe we're out of on camera work.
Maybe that's my choice, maybe that's because we haven't booked anything,

(45:13):
who knows. But they also just assume you must be
doing absolutely nothing, even though most of us have found
ways of having fulfilling careers and jobs way outside of
being on camera.

Speaker 8 (45:27):
It's funny of the I'm gonna use an actual space
metaphor given my background, but by the time you see
a star based on how much time it takes the
light to travel, the.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Star is dead.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (45:40):
Yeah, So when you see a person on a talk
show or whatever project that's come out, that project is
long dead. Yeah, We've already done the work. So when
you see me, actually, that's evidence of the work that
I've long.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Been doing exactly.

Speaker 7 (45:58):
Yeah, And people don't necessarily compute that.

Speaker 8 (46:01):
I think one of the toughest questions that I've never
had good emotional responses to is when you're promoting something,
and right on the heels of promoting something, people say, well.

Speaker 7 (46:16):
What else do you have coming up next?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
And I'm like, yeah, it took us two or three
years just to get.

Speaker 5 (46:22):
This out just enough. Are you not entertained?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Exactly have you worked with as an adult? Now have
you worked with kid actors?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
And how do you think your experience having been a
child actor has now shaped the type of actor you
are as an adult.

Speaker 7 (46:44):
So it's funny.

Speaker 8 (46:45):
So I have two different experiences that are standout. I
have several, actually, but I did a show called Me,
Myself and I on CBS and it's started Jack Jack Blazer,
Jack Dylan Gras and.

Speaker 7 (47:06):
He was one of the kids from it. Yes, So
when it came out, I remember when we started the show.
We started the show.

Speaker 8 (47:17):
It was basically a Wonder Years, but he was the
center of it, except it was telling the story of
one man's life at three different portions of his life,
so at age twelve, at age thirty, and at age sixty.
I think they made their mistake by doing the age
sixty because Bobby Moonahan wasn't allowed to play himself at
age sixty, and they hired John lear Ket to play

(47:38):
Bobby Wanahan. And at Presto Or people were like, Bobby,
why is the person playing you in their sixties eight
inches taller than you. That's where that's where executives make
the dumbest decision in the world. We have to sit
on a stage and answer.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
For it exactly.

Speaker 6 (47:55):
Well, it's because that everyone knows in your mid fifties
is when you have that eight inch s Grotzburg.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yeah, that's.

Speaker 6 (48:03):
Come on, I can't wait.

Speaker 7 (48:05):
That deserves an apple.

Speaker 8 (48:11):
So the thing I noticed about Jack was when we started,
he had like, you know, a couple hundred thousand followers
when we did the pilot.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
By the time we.

Speaker 8 (48:22):
Got canceled after it came out, he had two million
freaking followers.

Speaker 7 (48:28):
And guess what time our show was programmed on CBS. Wow,
these freaking geniuses.

Speaker 8 (48:39):
Have the hottest, cutest little boy with perfect, freaking brown
locks that.

Speaker 7 (48:45):
Little girls are loving everywhere.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Their response to that is, let's.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Put him on after their kids go to bed when
they won't be able to watch him.

Speaker 5 (48:55):
Amazing.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, I got an other one kids I worked with.

Speaker 7 (49:04):
I worked on a show called The Big Show Show.
I started The Big Show on Netflix, and I really
enjoyed this show.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
I really did.

Speaker 8 (49:12):
I was the best friend again, but I actually kind
of came up with a character and I had a
different way of speaking and everything, and I was really
enjoying it.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
And I was happy that it was the Big show
show like Paul was such.

Speaker 8 (49:27):
A good guy, and it was interesting watching the kids
get better week after week, and it was the business
model was though that WWE was going to take some
of their retired wrestlers and start making sitcoms around them.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
But Netflix and.

Speaker 8 (49:48):
WWE, I found out on an adult level, really were
on the same page of.

Speaker 7 (49:52):
Who was going to pay for the lion's share of
the show.

Speaker 8 (49:56):
I think WWE made a huge mistake, and this is
where people get cheap and create problems for themselves. People
were enjoying the show, but I could tell by the
end of the show that this dynamic that was going
on between the network and our showrunners, our two showrunners,
one of them didn't even show up on the for

(50:17):
the last taping, and that's always a telltale signed I'm like,
sod the show when you're not even here.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
To watch us perform. At the last us outkay so at.

Speaker 8 (50:25):
Table reading not to say sorry a curtain call for
the last episode. I just remember the kids crying because
they were just tears were running down their faces in
anticipation of like will we get picked up and will
we ever see each other again? And that sucks because
I'm like I know they are standing there.

Speaker 7 (50:43):
I was like, we're not coming back.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (50:46):
I just my professional brain is kicking in.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
I was like, that other producer is not here tonight,
and I know that it's been going on.

Speaker 7 (50:53):
In the background and we're not coming back.

Speaker 8 (50:55):
Yeah, And so that was It's tough when I'm watching
kids enjoy them to that degree where it's like the
last day of school for them and they're crying and
it's like signed my yearbook kind of vibes right, and
I'm like, damn, but I know you're not coming back.
The last one that I'm actually I have good vibes
for is I actually I'm in Disney Skeleton Crew. Yeah,

(51:19):
I shouldn't say Disney Star Wars, Star Wars Universe Skeleton Crew.
I don't talk too much about it because I really
do like the focus to stay on the kids. Robbie
and Ryan and Christia. They're just they're They're terrific kids.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
But when I tell you, the production value behind them
is like, this ain't no sitcom. They see.

Speaker 7 (51:41):
This was one of the biggest sets I've ever been
on in my career. And you know, I get to
do my pul QW because I'm a pirate, you know.
But it's just like for me, it's it's so enjoyable
for me.

Speaker 8 (51:56):
I remember just being in between takes and just you know,
have conversations with them and this or that and you
know who's a better rapper and get there. There's still
such kids, you know, and I'd see like boxes of
empty crumble outside of their classroom and be out as
hell in the classroom, and I'm like, well, I know what,
it's loud in the classroom, look at all the crumbled

(52:17):
in consum.

Speaker 7 (52:20):
Gets so nostalgic to look at them work. I cheer
for them.

Speaker 8 (52:25):
It's like I'm working alongside them, but I'm like, I
hope you get a chance to do it big enough
that the business doesn't play, you know, you get a
chance to put away enough money, you get a chance
to do enough episodes that it it wasn't a swing
and a miss or a bunt.

Speaker 7 (52:39):
But you know, it's like the guys from Stranger.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Things, they're set, you know, like right right, like they
did it where it's like okay, yeah, they got to
work like everybody else to move on to their next project,
but they're set.

Speaker 6 (52:52):
You know.

Speaker 8 (52:52):
It landed in such a way that they're all icons,
and I'm hoping that for these kids too, because they
deserve it.

Speaker 6 (52:58):
Well, it looks great. I mean, I'm the resident nerd
here and looking at all the you know, Star Wars shows.
We were just talking this weekend actually about how it's
like they've kind of lost the Star Wars vibe. And
then I saw the trailer for Skeleton Crew and I
was like, Yeah, that's the vibe. That's what I'm looking
for right there. That's the Star Wars we're looking for.
So I think this could be, you know, I don't know,

(53:20):
but I'm hoping it is the success that Star Wars
needs right now because it looks like a whole It
was like, it's like that vibe of Gooni's but in space,
you know. So that's something that I think is lacking
in the Star Wars world. So I think it's going
to be. I mean, if you haven't seen the trailer rider,
it looks.

Speaker 7 (53:37):
John Watson, John Wats is a badass creator.

Speaker 8 (53:40):
You know, they're just I don't know, Like I said,
I told you guys at the beginning, I kind of
have an eye for people who just have the thing
and just being on set with him and the two
Chris is the executive producers. They know what they want,
and I don't think people understand. For as much as
we get criticized or what we may or may not

(54:01):
have done in our careers, we're only as good as
the people we get to work for.

Speaker 7 (54:05):
Do you know how many people I've worked for who
had no idea what they.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Wanted or even how to achieve it? And you know
it early on set well, like oh this do it
on the right.

Speaker 8 (54:19):
This was the complete opposite, Like you know, Lee Isaac
Chung was one of our directors, the director Twister. This dude,
just his handling of a set of this size and magnitude,
it's just you're just you're all watching him, like I
love it when the stars of our project are not
the people on the screen.

Speaker 7 (54:40):
It's the cinematographer, it's the.

Speaker 8 (54:42):
Director, it's this guy doing the sound in the doing
the musical score. When that happens, my job is easy, I.

Speaker 7 (54:51):
Say, my mind.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
And like you said, as we've was, we've all talked
about one of the hardest parts about being an adult actor.
You don't think about it when you're a kid, but
once you are an adult and you realize man every
It takes all of these people to make a project,
and not all of these people are necessarily.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Doing a great job. But I'm the face of it.
I'm the one who has to go out and speak
for it. I'm the one who gets asked the questions.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And now all of this is on my shoulders, and
people think I'm somehow responsible for all of it, and
and that becomes a really like, oh, I don't I don't.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Want to take that on.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
So when you, like you said, when you look around
and you go look at these superstars, it make you
feel a lot more comfortable being the face of something.

Speaker 7 (55:38):
I think it makes me. I'm super comfortable.

Speaker 8 (55:40):
And the best part is I'm not the fast Listen,
I'm a supporting pirate, right But I don't think you know,
I always want people to understand that everything I've ever
done in my.

Speaker 7 (55:50):
Career has been about the audience experience.

Speaker 8 (55:53):
You know.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
It's it's we get joy when we know you enjoyed
what we've done. Yeah, and it didn't croach on our
dignity anyway. You know, reality TV.

Speaker 8 (56:03):
Ushered in a different era that says, hey, how can
we humiliate you and call it good TV?

Speaker 7 (56:09):
I'm like I don't want to be a part of
car wreck entertainment.

Speaker 8 (56:12):
Like that's not socially responsible, it's not even good for
my own mental health.

Speaker 7 (56:20):
I got asked to be in some I won't say
the name of the show. I mean, you're pretty much guessed.

Speaker 8 (56:25):
But it was one of those kind of like you know,
boot camp type shows where they wanted us.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
To live, you know, in you know, Belgium or whatever,
in some place where with only rocks that look like
an area that should be in Game of Thrones, and
we're submerged in water and tortured with Chinese you know,
Chinese torture or whatnot.

Speaker 8 (56:45):
And it's like, okay, how much And it was like, okay,
I didn't even say how much. I said, let me
see the original show from Europe. That no, I said,
I don't even want to know how much you're offering.
Let me see the original show from Europe. I saw
the way they would torture any dudes, and I'm like,
so you expect me to leave my daughter, move to

(57:07):
Belgium or wherever and be tortured for six weeks. And
by the way, they don't give you all the money
unless you lax. If you have like, you know some issues, you.

Speaker 7 (57:17):
Need to get off the show early in two weeks.
You're not getting the you know, the dangle two hundred
thousand whatever.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
So I turned it down and came back with five.

Speaker 7 (57:24):
Hundred thousand, six hundred thousand.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I was like, this is crazy.

Speaker 7 (57:29):
You will pay me more to see me be abused
on screen and just do what I love at the
clip that I know it should be done.

Speaker 6 (57:40):
Yeah, well, if that, it'll just be a bunch of
child actors doing hunger games. Yes, I mean that's where
that's where hap is. Just let's see what's that you
guys are going down?

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Yes, he's lasting til the end.

Speaker 6 (58:00):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (58:02):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Well, now you have written Growing Up Arkle, a memoir,
and I want to.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Know before I want to know about the book and
all of that, but I want to know what was
the process like for you? What was your writing process?
Did you how did you plan out your chapters? I
want to know, like the nitty gritty details about you
as an author, What was your process?

Speaker 8 (58:24):
Like, I've been writing since I was seventeen, So I
made the mistake and I'll own it of not getting
into books earlier.

Speaker 7 (58:34):
But you know, you can want to be in an industry.

Speaker 8 (58:38):
But if you don't have a champion in that industry, yeah,
you're probably going to start in that industry well below
where you should. So you know, people say why now,
and I'm like, well, because this, certainly, this opportunity beats
anything that would have happened to me if self published.

Speaker 7 (58:54):
Right, you know, you you can't fight the machine.

Speaker 8 (58:58):
And I was very fortunate that between the two publishing houses,
I started writing down basically just answers to questions people.

Speaker 7 (59:05):
Have answered asked me all the years.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
By the time I just answered those in literary form,
I had enough for a book proposal.

Speaker 7 (59:13):
And then there was a process where the.

Speaker 8 (59:16):
Different publishing houses, three in particular, came forward, but one
just stood out, Simon and.

Speaker 7 (59:23):
Schuster above all. It was like, we really liked the proposal,
and you know, we just you know, we want to
make you a very special project. A lot of late
nights writing.

Speaker 8 (59:35):
I'm a game show host now with the flip side,
so you know, sometimes I'd have to do deal with
edits after six episodes in a day, so that part
wasn't necessarily so fun. You know, once somebody pays you
to do something, now you're on their deliverable time schedule. Yes,
you know, that's that's where it becomes a job again.

(59:58):
My first draft I hated, I absolutely hated.

Speaker 6 (01:00:01):
Like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
It was probably about a solid week of what the
hell have I done? So I'm just I'm honest. I'm
like you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
You know, if you.

Speaker 7 (01:00:13):
If you turn in any if you try to bring
some of your past papers you turned into school, tell
me if you'll like them.

Speaker 8 (01:00:19):
All right, But after about two weeks of really dealing
with my editor, now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Oh okay, put this here, we were this here, put this.

Speaker 7 (01:00:30):
With their okay, now, I started to see the magic
of this thing for me.

Speaker 8 (01:00:35):
It really started to become a book about going from
the journey of being humble to being aware. And I
think those two things don't have to be mutually exclusive.
You can be a kind person and you can still
be very aware of people.

Speaker 7 (01:00:53):
Around you who do not have good intentions for you.
And as child actors, I think you guys know exactly
what I mean.

Speaker 8 (01:01:00):
Where we are, we are taught to be such troopers,
to tough it out to deliver when we haven't even
been given the goods to deliver.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
That is like and I'm like writer, I can see
you perking up at this right, and I'm like, we've
been We've.

Speaker 8 (01:01:16):
Been conditioned that way to not feel like we even
have the option to say no.

Speaker 7 (01:01:24):
That doesn't work for me. I've never even had a.

Speaker 8 (01:01:28):
Moment on a set, no matter how bad it got
or how bad I knew the project would end up
being where I said, excused myself from production, where I said,
I'm sorry, I know this is gonna suck, so I'm
gonna bow out, take your money back, I'm gone.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
The child after brain.

Speaker 7 (01:01:46):
To me is like you ruin.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We could get there, we can do it, we can
say this yes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
And that's part of the therapy that I'm even.

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
Just avoiding conflict, yeah, just aborting contest. Feel like I
couldn't make waves, Yeah, of course not.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
Yeah, yeah, No, It's like you're you're you're as a
child actor, you're the best thing you do is to
like go along, to get along, to deliver your and
And I remember just watching like older actors and being like, wow,
they're they're making so many much conflict. In retrospect, they
were standing up for themselves in really proper ways most
of the time. But I was like, you know, I
wasn't until I was an adult, I was like, I
don't have the tools to stand up for myself. I'm

(01:02:24):
so scared of conflict on set, which is conflict is
part of the process, Like you should have different opinions
and different you know, it's a collaborative art form.

Speaker 5 (01:02:32):
But no, I always had in my mind like, yeah,
I gotta be a trooper.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
The trooper is the number one compliment as a kid
that you want to hear. Oh, so easy to work with.
Such a trooper takes direction. Well, yeah, we have all through.
Certainly this podcast has been incredibly therapeutic for us of
being able to look back and it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Could have gone one of it could have gone the
other way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Instead of it feeling cathartic and healing, it could have
been absolutely traumatizing. And I think because of the closeness
of the three of us and the bonds that we
have and our ability to look back and say, yes,
that is that was the reality of the situation, or no,
you're remembering it wrong and here's what's been going on,

(01:03:16):
it's been really good for us. So I hope that
the book has felt like that for you and that
there was so much healing.

Speaker 7 (01:03:24):
It certainly has.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Okay, good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Well, I can't wait to get a copy of it
next time I see you. I'd like for you to
sign it for me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Would you do that for me?

Speaker 8 (01:03:31):
Absolutely? You should have my information anyway. I'll make sure
you get it all right.

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Thank you?

Speaker 7 (01:03:36):
Well, should mean I've run to him a million times?

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
Yeah, I think I do. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 7 (01:03:42):
Absolutely? That's that's easy. I'm not going to make you
jump through agents and manage.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
It for that well, even I might have to, it's
worth it. I would love that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I really hope that we get a chance to see
you in person. There is something, as I mentioned, with
us doing the podcast and it feeling cathartic.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
There is such a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Just a connectedness we all feel when we talk to
people like yourself, when we talk to Candice Cameron, when
we talk to Danica mckeller, people who have been doing
it since they were kids, all of the child actors
we've had on the show, and there is there's a
shared history and a shared it's like a fraternity, it's
a and it is there's just a knowing and it's

(01:04:24):
a nice feeling to have that shared history with people
and to be able to have these kinds of conversations,
and I think we're making the industry a better place
for the kids who are coming up underneath us because
we're able to talk about the fact that divide and
conquer is a thing, and you know that you need
to be on top of your agents because they may
not even be looking out for your best interest. It's

(01:04:47):
just I really, I really think it's a it's a
service that we can that we can share. And it
has been so wonderful to talk to you. We really
thank you for spending your time with us this morning.
Look for Skeleton Crew on Disney Plus and his memoir
Growing Up Arkle.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
We're so honored to have you here today, Julia. It
was great to see you. Hope to see you again soon.
Enjoy that waffle you earned it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Thank you man. You guys are awesome. Seriously, we'll make
sure they have my number.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Yeah yeah, all right, yes, well, thank you in touch,
Thank you bye day.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
It never ceases to amaze me how how much how
little we all knew, yeah back then, about the way
it worked.

Speaker 6 (01:05:39):
You're also told constantly and you're just lucky to be here,
like not only it's like, hey, don't make ways don't
do anything. We can't there's no more money, there's anything.
You should just be proud to be here and be
doing this, and so all of us there is that
kind of combination. I mean, we hear that all the time.
You know, there's no more money, there's no more this,
or it's yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
It was so interesting to hear like that sort of
basic institutional division that I didn't think about, right, because
it's like, oh, we're all on tjif it was like,
but right, but which ones did we do crossovers with?

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
They were other Disney shows.

Speaker 6 (01:06:09):
There's like yeah, right, right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
We had a question before about like why wouldn't we
have ever done anything with Sister Sister? Oh because there
wasn't enough money to be made for one company, right,
So none of the whole thing.

Speaker 6 (01:06:22):
And I love how you hear how he speaks about
it now, where he's kind of it seems like he's
had an awakening and is like, no, I'm an adult
in this business and I'm I now know what to do.
And there's times where he's being labeled difficult, right because
he's actually asking questions and taking control of his career.
And now that well, you know, the child actor doesn't
want to do a reboot. It's like, wait, you want

(01:06:42):
me to sign a blind contract without a script, and
I'm just supposed to sit on my hands for half
the money. But now I'm somehow difficult to work with
because I won't just sign your contract. I mean, things
like that just drive me crazy. It's insane. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:06:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
It also is such a good lesson in at the
things you say no to actually do more for your
career than the things you say yes to.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
You know, the power of a well placed no.

Speaker 6 (01:07:13):
Huge.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:07:15):
They don't watch you until they can't have you. Yeah,
all of a sudden they want you. Yep, that's just
the way it is. So yeah, man, what a business.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Well, thank you all for listening to this episode of
Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on
Instagram pod meets World Show. You can send us your
emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com and
we have merch Did I merch that pod meets World
show dot com?

Speaker 8 (01:07:39):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Writer? Send us out.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
We love you all, pod dismissed.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast producer and hosted
by Danielle Fischel, Wilfordell and Ryder Strong Executive producers Jensen
Karp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo,
producer and editor, TaRaSu Bosch producer, Maddie Moore engineer and
boy Meets the World Supervan Easton Allen. Our theme song
is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram
at Podmets World Show, or email us at Podmeets worldshowat

(01:08:09):
gmail dot com