Jonathan C. Kaplan Meets World

After saying farewell to Minkus for season 2, our hosts were captivated by another class nerd, only to find out later that the actor was a member of the exclusive Boy Meets World 3-timers club. He may have played multiple characters on the show, but in real life Jonathan C. Kaplan was by far the most accomplished child actor the set had ever seen.
The gang is hanging out with the Tony nominated thespian and sharing stories, including how Rider was responsible for the most heartbreaking moment of Jonathan's career. 

Find out what he remembers from his three visits to John Adams High School, and how he's now paying it forward with a whole new group of kids with dreams, on a brand new Pod Meets World!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
After we did our show in New Orleans, you guys
left and rad show.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
By the way, my family came and met me.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yeah, that was such a fun, such a good show.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, New Orleans. They came, brought the energy it was.
It was a smaller crowd than we've had in other cities,
but louder.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
Than absolutely and even more fun. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, such a blass.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
But then after my family came and met me, so
Indie and uh my wife and then my sister in
law were there and we did a swamp tour the
next day.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Was this on it?

Speaker 5 (00:50):
But we've talked about this, Was this on a fan boat?
Like did you do the whole thing an airboat?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Oh my god. I didn't know what to expect.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was like, okay, like like I swamps now, I
think are beautiful there, maybe strangely gorgeous. I mean part
of it is that the boat itself, I've never experienced
something like because you're you're on the surface of the water,
but you're going so fast and something about the way
you're moving.

Speaker 6 (01:15):
It feels like you're flying.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, you're you know, like we kept sliding like you know,
you took and it was like.

Speaker 7 (01:22):
Dad, it's Louisiana drift because like, you know, it's like
Tokyo drifting.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it's Louisiana drift. But then, okay, so here's something
I realized about myself, which is kind of absurd but true.
Anytime in a landscape there's moss or lichen.

Speaker 6 (01:39):
I'm happy.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
And so you're going through these trees that are hanging
over you and they have that like moss hanging from
it that you only get in the South, you know
I'm talking about, like yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I look up and I'm just like, I am so happy.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
And it's the same with like, if there's ever like
a pathway and has like moss growing on it, on
the rocks or whatever, I'm happy. So I'm just really like,
you know, you start, you get older, you start figuring
out your your likes and dislikes.

Speaker 6 (02:03):
Me moss and liking. And there's moss a liking.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
I think I think it's your I think it's the
mosses is telling you to root yourself.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
That's what is.

Speaker 5 (02:11):
As much as you like to wander, you know, when
you sit, you grow the moss. So there's something inside
of you that's saying.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Settle down a little bit.

Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yeats, plants and roots and make it nice reading.

Speaker 8 (02:22):
I like it.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Thank you. We also got to hold a baby alligator, which.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Was crazy, just right out of the swamp.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
No, so you know, they they have they have when
we like we you know, we do little sections. We're
driving around and then they stop and then like a
twelve foot alligator comes up to the boat and we're feeding.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
At marshmows and it's like mellows.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah they eat marshmallows.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yes, well they'll lead anything, but these tour guides throw
marshmallows to you know, get But the second the boat stops,
the alligators know it's.

Speaker 6 (02:51):
Coming, so they come for feeding time.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's crazy. I learned a lot about alligators.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's you know, at the point of the tour, and like,
you know, you have one big alligator that has a territory,
and then any other alligator has to be under six
feet because the second the other alligators get over six feet,
the big ones will eat them and just kill them.
So like one big male that dominates the territory and
then all these other little alligators so the big ones and.

Speaker 6 (03:14):
They can live to be like one hundred and twenty
years old.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Why it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
But anyway, so you know, about like two thirds of
the way through the tour, the where he's giving us
all the information about alligators and we're learning all this stuff,
and then he reaches under his seat until like a
little bucket and pulls out a one year old baby alligator,
which is just the cutest little lizard, and we all
get to hold it. India almost drops it, which would
have been a disaster because it's like, you know, then

(03:40):
it would be in the boat and I.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Don't know, but it was.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
It was fine, and you just hold it by its
tail and they don't have like their bite. They haven't
developed like a bite reaction yet, so they don't try
and bite you or anything.

Speaker 6 (03:50):
They just they're just like a little lizard. He gets
a hold and they're really soft.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
The alligator's skin would be like scaly, but at that
is it's like super.

Speaker 6 (03:57):
Soft, and especially underneath especially I know.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's just it was one of those experiences that I
love where at the beginning of the tour you see
this twelve foot alligator swimming to the boat and everybody
is screaming and running to the other side of the boat,
including Indie, who's like, you know, I'm like, it's fine,
it's fine. And then by the end of the tour,
you're like holding a baby alligator. You've heard all about it,
and you're like, I.

Speaker 6 (04:18):
Kind of think alligators are really special and need to be.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Saved, and like, you know, it's just that classic like right,
that's the point of this kind of educational exponential thing,
is like. And then of course the ride home India
and I are just pitching we've come up with an
alligator video game where you're a baby alligator you hatched
and you have to you know, we were going through
the whole life cycle of an alligator, which is pretty brutal.
There's only fifteen percent of them make it past maturity.

Speaker 8 (04:42):
You know.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
It's such a rough life. Yeah, because they're just born.
There's no mom or the bomb lays the eggs and
then just leaves them. So once they're born, you're on
your own and then you're fighting for your life.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Sometimes the mom.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Will eat the babies if they're hungry enough, so you
got to like, yeah, it's a rough.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
So they're all Shanes.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
Baby.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
In all fairness, I would swim up to any boat
anytime if everyone in the boat just started throwing the marshmallows.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right, well that was Andy was like, well can we
eat the marshmallows?

Speaker 1 (05:16):
He was upset and they were throwing into the alligators.

Speaker 9 (05:19):
Is there any downside to giving an alligator marshmallows? It
doesn't seem like it has high nutritional value, Like they
don't get they just digest.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Them well, and these things are struggling to survive, like
I think, you know, keeping them fed in any capacity
is probably better than hot.

Speaker 9 (05:34):
Okay, all right, wow, well that sounds like a hard
pass for me, But I'm so glad you had a
good time.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
You wouldn't go. You wouldn't go fan boating.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
I would. It's just I wouldn't enjoy it, probably, but
I would go.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
That's the point.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I felt the same way. I was like, what is this?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Like you say swamp and my mind is just like
I think it's Dagoba and I'm miserable.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
But then I was in it. It was beautiful. It's
it's it's someone says swamp to you.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
The first place you go is the Daga bus system,
Yoda's planet.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
That's really in your mind. The first place you go
is the fictional planet.

Speaker 9 (06:05):
No idea what he said, I just thought that was
some weird word. I had never heard.

Speaker 5 (06:10):
Daga bus not just a planet, it's actually a system.
But that's okay, we'll get okay.

Speaker 6 (06:13):
I haven't spent much time in swamp.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I've never spent any time in swamps the Everglades in
Florida or any of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
No, so this was it, Like, yeah, and this is
about the first part of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.
That's all swamp.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
I like that.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
That's's a fictional ride supposed to tame thing. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
My reference points are not real, so having a real
reference point isn't nice.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
That's the point of traveling, right, Yeah, yeah, you know,
they're cool.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
I did that in the Everglades, and you kind of
start you do the same thing, and you learn about
all the nature and and about the animals around you,
and it's the same thing. We're looking at the alligators
and all that stuff, and then you end at a
restaurant that serves gator and frog legs and all that
kind of stuff, and you eat a basket of it
and you're like, you're kind of sad is doing it,
But at the same time, it's like this all taste

(07:02):
like chicken.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well, we got a lot of conversation about sustainable farming
of alligators, which is done, and they have a fifteen
percent of bible rate. They return them to the wild.
They raise them, and then they return fifteen percent of
them to the wild. And they have proven that if
they are raised in captivity and they are then released
to the wild, they survive perfectly fine in the wild.
So they're actually raising them at the same rate that

(07:22):
they're actually surviving in the wild. So you know, they're
released at six feet and they never they never for
leather and for food.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
They don't ever kill them after they're six feet long,
so they.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Know it's the same. It's sustainably done. It's really interesting
to cool.

Speaker 9 (07:36):
Yeah, I hear swamp and I think spiders, which is
the main reason why I wouldn't want to go. And
I just know if there are spiders, hot wet areas
like just seem like screaming.

Speaker 5 (07:46):
So jungle doesn't work. See, I think jungle's more spider.
I think swamp is more snake.

Speaker 9 (07:51):
Yeah, okay, all right, that you saved me. That sounds better.
I'm not really that scared of snakes.

Speaker 6 (07:55):
Okay, there you go.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
I'm in Welcome to Pod Meets World, I'm Daniel.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Fishl, I'm Right or Strong, and I'm Wilfredoe.

Speaker 9 (08:12):
So a few months back, when we listed off members
of the elite Boy Meets World Three Timers Club, a
group composed of actors who appeared on the show three
times but played three different characters, the guys immediately thought
of Willie Garson, Hillary Tuck, and possibly Phil Leads. Then
we inducted Katie Johnson aka fish Girl, to the club.

(08:34):
But then we remembered this week's guest. During our season
two recaps in the absence of one Stuart Minkus, we
noticed that producers appeared to want to keep some nerds around,
and they did that with one actor. Whether he was
named Herbert Simon or Alvin, this kid was every dork
and he played it well and for good reason. Ironically,

(08:56):
he may have been the most accomplished child actor we
cast at that point in the show, arguably ever, at
just twelve years old, he took Broadway by storm in
the musical Falsettos as the original Jason, a role that
would make him one of the youngest Tony Award nominees ever.
He'd return to Broadway a few years later in the

(09:17):
Diary of Anne Frank as the original Peter Van Dnn
opposite Natalie Portman. Then would find himself joining the national
tour of The Graduate, taking over for one Rider Strong
and playing the role of Benjamin for nine months and
three Missus Robinson's did I mention he studied drama at
Stanford and Yale and is a member of Mensa, And

(09:38):
yet for some reason, this theatrical wonder kind joined Our
Little Friday Night Show for four season two episodes as
three characters back to School, the Uninvited, I Am Not
a Crook and on the air. He'd also appear on
Babylon five, Brotherly Love, The Blacklist, and Lawn Order SVU.
Where get this he played three friend characters.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
That's a New York tradition.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, I was, of course.

Speaker 9 (10:08):
We are proud to welcome to Pod meets World. Someone
it took over one year to track down. It's Jonathan C.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Kaplan.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
I always get Mensa and Menudo, which is probably why I'm.

Speaker 9 (10:21):
I think it's way easier to be in Menudo.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
The high level of sophistication on our podcast, Welcome.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
To see Man, Welcome than you.

Speaker 9 (10:40):
We are so thrilled that you are here, and we
probably look slightly obsessed because we truly hunted you down.
You saw our message over a year after we had
originally sent it, right.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
That's right, because I checked Facebook Messenger almost never, So
that's a healthy way to be here.

Speaker 9 (11:00):
We tried other means it just thankfully the Facebook messenger
finally made it.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
How old are we were?

Speaker 5 (11:06):
It's like you didn't You didn't see our I am like,
get this.

Speaker 9 (11:17):
Well during our season two rewatch, we were so happy
to see you so frequently. Did you know that you
had played three different characters in one season.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
There's a good question throughout the season. My name's kept changing, right,
like Alvin Simon and I didn't quite have a Theodore,
but I was yeah, but the full set, but it
was I didn't realize that going into it, but it
was a nice surprise. Every time I'd show up and

(11:46):
have like a new character name, I'd be like, oh,
this is fun, but essentially the same character, right essentially?

Speaker 8 (11:52):
Yeah? Right?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (11:54):
So in your intro, we went over your truly remarkable
resume as a child actor, and we wondered how you
felt being around true professionals on Broadway and then coming
to work with us, did you notice a difference at all.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, I have to say that, like there are there
are pluses in both categories, right, Okay, So the Broadway
performers are it's very much like a machine, right you
you are. I think other actors have talked about this
recently when they when they do eight shows a week,
it's like they do nothing else outside of those eight shows,
because it takes your everything, right, And then we got
onto the set for Boy Meant's World, and I was like, oh,

(12:32):
this is fun. It was not that Broadway isn't fun,
but it's it's a lot of work, right. Youre constantly
like concerned about your instrument and like keeping everything healthy.
And meanwhile I get to set, you know, with you guys,
and it's like, oh, this is actually like there's a
fun element to this. It's like it's just as exciting
as being in front of a live studio audience. It's

(12:54):
also incredibly fun at the same time. Like we're doing
you know, schooling together, we're doing the takes together. And
each scene that we did, particularly the one where I
was hit by the each of the doors was you know,
one of the highlights of my career. I never thought
i'd say that, but because it was so.

Speaker 9 (13:14):
Fun, right, Yeah, you know, writer went on for years
still to this day. If given a good opportunity, Writer
will do the door and a doorsmack it doors.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
It's one of his favorite things ever.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, it's a great party trick.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
It is.

Speaker 9 (13:29):
So do you remember auditioning for Boy Meets World? Were
you familiar with the show at all?

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So? I was familiar with the show. I knew what
it was. I knew, I knew about it, you know,
I knew. I knew you're going to ask about the audition.
And it's so funny. I heard you guys talking about
this earlier, and it's so true. The things that we
remember from from that time period makes zero sense. Like
I can tell you about the car ride to the audition.
I can tell you about what happened. I remember, like

(13:56):
going and talking to the security guard beforehand, like while
getting onto the set, and it was like I remember,
I remember those kinds of experiences, But I couldn't tell you.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Were you coming from New York or like, so, were
you moved? Were you already living in LA Like how
did that happen?

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Okay? So, I have a roundabout history. So I started
in Northern California. And I was going to say this
to the end, but I do have to tell you
that my most heartbreaking loss as an actor came at
the ripe ol day age of nine, when I was
living in Northern California, and I just happened to audition

(14:31):
for Le Miz. Oh no, And I don't know if
you're aware of this, but the other person who actually
ended up booking it is on this call right now.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
Oh, you auditioned for Gavroche.

Speaker 8 (14:45):
Time.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
I am positive we saw each other writing. Yeah, we
must have auditioned in the same room. We must have
seen each other and other auditions then. Oh but it
was like I was like your name and I was like,
no way, it's the same writer Stromp And so it
was like it was so cool, Like the the idea
of like the opportunity to like work with you again
would be like fantastic. So that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Okay, So but that's funny because then Aaron Metchick, who
also ended up a guest starring on our show. He
auditioned that same day in San Francisco, so like three
of us, Oh my god, that's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
That's so crazy, yo.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, but it was great, Like it was literally not
like I think that it was. It was the least
competitive I've ever been, But it was like started in
northern California, moved to New York, did Falsettos and a
bunch of off Broadway shows in New York, then moved
back to California to go to high school. And while
like junior high and high school, and then while I

(15:42):
was out there, I was doing The boy Mets World.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
So did you move to New York to pursue a
theater career like your family?

Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Wow, kind of like we moved for a summer to
see what would happen. Because I had done like twenty
two shows in the Bay Area, like in two years,
just like one college production after another, just like back
to back Shakespeare musicals. I did the opera, the San
Francisco Opera at twelve. I was literally nine.

Speaker 5 (16:09):
Oh man, you did reverse pilot season. You went to
New York to see what was going to happen.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's exactly such a thing to do, exactly. I was
following the theater like tailwa, so I was. I went
to New York to try it out there, and I
booked Rags, which is the off railway version of what
they were hoping to bring to Broadway again. That was
performed at the American Jewish Theater, which then became the
Opera Citizens Brigade Theater, which is built underneath a supermarket,

(16:40):
so during all the quiet moments, you can hear the
carts being pushed. Oh, what's on special that day? Happens
like just after the intro, but yeah it. So I
went to New York to do that and then got Rags.
And after Rags, was called in by the Weislers to
audition Foot Pauls. And the audition for Falsettos was like

(17:03):
a two month process. Oh my god, just memorize a
different song for every audition, and then by the time
we got to the rehearsal, we knew the whole score.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh geez, you were such a pro. When you showed
up on our set, we cannot believe.

Speaker 7 (17:19):
Wait, but had you been on Nickelodeon, like let's I
can't believe. And we had no idea, Like I still
had no idea until we got the notes for today.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
We were like Tony Tony nominated what before he was
on Boy beats World, Like, wow, is this big? And
now you're Yeah, I cannot believe.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
The level of professionalism that you were walking under our set.
We must have just seemed like the craziest group.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
Can We also, though, very briefly, talk about how great
the casting director was for Ley Miss up North.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
I mean, everybody auditioned for that became it was it
was an open casting call, dude.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
So it was literally just every kid who was doing
theater at that age, just like we lined up. I
got there like five in the morning and it was
just a line of kids.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
But yeah, think about what was in the water, like
that much kind of of northern California at that time.
Oh man, I look at the other actors who I
knew from that that period, you know, and some of
them are still in the business, but like they're all
incredibly accomplished, you know. It's it's fascinating.

Speaker 9 (18:19):
I mean, you had way more in common with Bill
Daniels any of us.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, it's like on her set too, it was just
Quinn a little bit different.

Speaker 9 (18:34):
But wow, okay, I do I do want to talk
about the Tony a little bit. You were nominated for
a Tony at twelve years old, and we talk a
lot about our experience being on TV and our teens,
But what was it like being a part of such
such a successful Broadway show at such a young age?
What is the atmosphere of being there?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Like, well, it's it's really like the theater community as
a whole is incredibly welcoming, right, So I just rely
went to a Sardi signing for Chip sign where he
got his picture up on the Sardi's wall, and it
was just like everyone from his career came to celebrate
him as part of this like grand you know, gesture,

(19:14):
and it was amazing to see like the extent of
his career, how many shows he had been in, and
like the actors who came to this thing were amazing.
But that's really what the artistic community was like for
the theater anyway. They're incredibly welcoming. It's this big you know,
everyone knows each other and is excited for other people's success.

(19:34):
Like some of the actors who were there had to leave,
you know, at six thirty because they had a curtain
at seven and they were walking across the street to
the theater and it was just like it's what you did,
you know, And the Tonys were an exciting thing because
I don't think they do this anymore. I'm not really sure.
But when we did it then it was obviously a
live recording and we were performing after the you know,

(19:58):
awards were announced, performing live a number from Falsetto's, and
they would announce where the Tonys were being seen and
by how many millions of people in every country after
they would announce it, so it was like today in
the United States, seventy two million people are watching the Tonies.

Speaker 9 (20:15):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Oh you can feel like the pressure and the nerves
like start to get to your stomach as they're announcing
these things, and you're like, okay, all right, I've done this,
done this on hundred times. You should be able to
be able to do it now. Sure.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
How did your parents deal with all of this?

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Good questions? So one of them was always working on
the opposite coast. So my dad at the time was
going to Stanford to business school, and my mom was
a corporate lawyer before, and so she took time off
to take us to New York and like follow where
in New York. Uh, and my dad stayed in California

(21:09):
started a business there.

Speaker 8 (21:11):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
And then my when I got old enough, I had
to take over my own career. My mom then stayed
in California and my dad started a business in Alaska.
So it was like they're constantly working like all over
the place. It was a it was a constant game
of taghow And were they into theater?

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Is that where it came from?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Like they got you? And yeah, they were both the
community theater. And I remember my first role was in
a community theater production of All the Way Home, which
is I don't know if anyone knows it, but it's
a very sad show about the depression. Uh, And I
played a five year old child with no lines. My
whole role was to run on stage, play with the
main kid, hug my grandmother, and run off again. And

(21:52):
being that I was five years old, I had a
smile on my face the entire time. That sounds fun,
I like playing. So I ran on stage, huge smile
and all the old ladies thought it was adorable. So
a lot of pinches on the cheek after.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
That, of course, And that's what coming you said, You
said us, did you have a brothers and sisters that
were doing this with you?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Or yes, yes, my sister she essentially become a very
successful psychologist at Stanford, and she is now like she
she did nor in Northern California. She did Tale of
Two Cities. She's like on the on the cover of
the publication for the San Francisco Weekly or whatever. She's
like being held as the child who is hit and

(22:40):
title Tale two Cities.

Speaker 9 (22:41):
Wow, Oh my gosh, Okay, I want to go back
to Boy Meets World now for just a little bit.
So your first episode is back to School, which was
a bit of a reset for us on the podcast.
We had going from season one into season two, we
had what we called dropshock big time. So your playing
a nerd named Herbert. Do you remember anything about that week?

Speaker 2 (23:06):
I remember a lot of the physical stuff, right, It
was like there was the doors and the being hit
by the various doors. I also remember, and I know
you guys were like totally joking about about the professionalism,
but I like, as soon as I got onto set,
I was like, Oh, it's it's a whole different ballgame here,
Like this is completely different from like anything else that

(23:28):
I'd ever done. Because you guys had such great chemistry.
It was like all I had to do was just
kind of show up and do my thing, and you
guys were like fireworks all the time, because mostly most
of the time it takes like, you know, a month
of rehearsals for actress to get together to find that
chemistry make that work on stage. But by the time
I got there, you guys were like, on it done.

Speaker 9 (23:50):
We also had for season two was still David Trainer.
I was going to say, I wonder if Jeff McCracken,
we were so yeah, so David trainor was was still
our director. Then you're back just four episodes later for
The Uninvited. Again you're playing a nerd, but now you're
named Simon and you're connecting with Sean about being left
out from a party. Do you remember how that episode happened.

(24:14):
You didn't have to audition again, did you.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
No, No, they would just call me back. And I
remember that Boyman's World was one of the ones that
was relatively short notice. So I was essentially like, like
on the Wednesday of like the week before, they were like,
so you're gonna come in, You're gonna do another another episode,
Like okay, okay, again, this is like early on in TV,

(24:37):
so I was like, I guess this is how it works.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, but it's so interesting to think about because Michael
Jacobs was such a theater guy and theater fan, and
he must have just been so impressed with you that.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
He was like, let's get him on here, let's let's
bring him back, let's get get it, and you like
must have been on hit. But it's so funny, be Causina.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
We never knew that, like, it never occurred to us,
but I'm sure he was like, get that kid.

Speaker 9 (25:00):
Well, I'm sure Michael saw his resume. So the first
time he auditioned, Michael probably saw your resume and was just.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
Like, whoa, this is amazing.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
Yeah, we have to start keeping a list of all
the incredible things we were completely and totally oblivious to
as kids, so many things, because it's just it would
be miles long at this point, unbelievable. Do you remember
Michael did he Did he talk to you about theater
at all.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Or do Yeah? Yeah, we did have conversations about theater,
and he asked about like specific people. He'd be like, so,
how is you know Michael doing or something like that. Wow, Michael,
But again it's you know, a conversation from thirty years ago.
I remember, I remember the dressing room, but I can't remember,
you know, exactly what we talked about.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
You know, right, I don't remember the dressing room.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
Yeah, I kind of do for season two, but this
is so I'm not sure we asked this, and we
probably should then because you're right, you never know what
sticks in your brain, what doesn't stick in your brain,
what goes. What's your strongest memory from being on the
set of Boy mel Okay?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
So I remember, uh, I remember the bullies, remember shoes
that we had on our episodes. They were like, again,
he's had a very successful career since but like the
larger bully like he's he has been, you know, so
great to see his career like and where it's gone.

(26:20):
But he walked onto that set and was like, Oh,
that's You've got this this part down. It is like
the question is to like what you're doing. And he
revised that role over and over again on the episode,
and I was like, Oh, it's it's almost like watching
you know, somebody like step into a shoe that's made
for them, right, It's like it's just it just happens.
It just works. And I remember like coming on to set,

(26:43):
particularly with Boy Meets World and it just kept happening,
like the people would would match their role so incredibly
well and you didn't have to think.

Speaker 9 (26:50):
About it right and that Yeah, I mean the casting
was incredible. That was Ethan's first job, in his first
episode of his first job ever. First day, Yeah, was
was there and we all felt the same way.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
It's like, oh, these guys are good, right, yeah, to.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
The point where my dad thought I was gonna be
written off the show because they were so good.

Speaker 4 (27:12):
These are the guys, these are the guys.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Happening.

Speaker 9 (27:18):
So at this point, as we've mentioned, you had already
been nominated for a Tony, but TV was newer to you.
So was it cool then to see yourself on TV?
Did you watch the episodes when they aired initially?

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yes? I did because I thought it was, you know,
kind of fun to do. And you get like a
little group together and you watch together and you're like,
that was cool.

Speaker 7 (27:40):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you know, I've heard you guys talk about this
before on the podcast, but you see these things and
you're like, oh, man, I wish I could redo that take.
Like there's certain moments and again it's not the entire thing,
but you're like, you see a moment you're like, oh,
miss that one. Right, it's so so there. There is
that that keep talking about the big mouth character of
like the regret master, right, and but it's you have

(28:07):
this this thing that comes in and you're like, oh, man,
I really I shouldn't watch myself anymore. So I actually
I've stopped watching or listening to myself, and it's it's
healthier that way. Think.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, writer discovered that as a team as well.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Oh yeah, stop watching. I only watched a little bit
of the first season.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
I was like, no, exactly right.

Speaker 5 (28:27):
I watch everything I've been in, and in my head
I put myself and stuff I wasn't in.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
That's good God, it was incredible Star Wars. This is damn.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (28:40):
But speaking of that, because of the way I am
with television and my memory of TV, which episodes of
s VU did you do? Were you old school SVU?
Were you Olivia Benson's now the captain of the squad
s VU? Where did you.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Fall in in this this category?

Speaker 2 (28:55):
So again talking about great casting directors, right, So Jonathan
Strauss is the casting rec means cast directed prayers for
you and he's great, Like I had a class with
him very early on in kind of my time in
New York, and we just kind of kept in touch, right,
and every once in a while a random part would
show off and he'd be like, Jonathan, come on, come
on in for this. And I'd auditioned for something and
I was like, there's no way I'm going to get this.

(29:16):
This is like a you know, a husband's who's taking
care of his pregnant wife and we're going to the
hospital to take care of somebody else. And I auditioned
for it and it goes really well, and I have
no idea what character, like I am personally right, but
he clearly sees something different. It's just great casting. And
I've been SVU from the early days to the mid days,

(29:40):
not so much in the later days, but like.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Who are you in the early ones? Which episode did you?

Speaker 9 (29:43):
I need to know the specific episode.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
I want to know what it is.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
So there was one where I was playing like a
paralegal and we were talking about like a possibly corrupt
judge and we were talking about the ins and outs
of like the our day to day and Benson was
talking to me about some detail and I had a
response that they did this like double pan with two
cameras on either side to like not catch each other

(30:08):
like one continuous take that we had to do. Okay.
And and the thing I love and can't stand about
TV is that everyone talks about this.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, everyone, especially on copy.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
So if you're standing in a big room and have
like wait for someone's cue to like pick up your line,
you're like, I have no idea I'm supposed to be.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
You didn't watch yourself on the episode? Did you know?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
I didn't.

Speaker 8 (30:29):
I was going to say, you still have not told
me what episode it is? You don't know what episode.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
I wish these people would project. We're some good old
theater training. These TV actors don't know so much fun.
I'm gonna have to google Google now. Okay.

Speaker 9 (30:53):
So then towards the end of season two, you come back,
this time in a much bigger role, now as Alva
running against Corey in the school election.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
For I am not a crook, and.

Speaker 9 (31:04):
This felt more like a role your talent deserved. Finally,
do you remember this week at all? And and do
you have any memories from that week?

Speaker 2 (31:13):
I do. I do remember like playing Alvin because Alvin
was where it felt more like an actual.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Characters.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, it had some I had some like conflict and
there was some some actual scenes happening, and you know,
rather than just being kind of the slapstick comedy, it
was like, Okay, I get to work with these actors.
And I remember really relishing in that because it was like, oh, okay,
I've gotten to have some fun up until now. Now
let's kind of dig in.

Speaker 9 (31:42):
Yeah, yeah, finally you had you had something to do.
So when we recapped the episode, Will shared kind of
a dropped a bombshell on me with something he remembered
that I absolutely did not remember, which was that during
the live studio audience taping, I kept in that part
where I kind of jump up to filibuster a speech,

(32:03):
I had a bit of a breakdown and I left
stage crying, and I was wondering if you remember any
of that.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
I do remember something about like I remember seeing like
some commotion happening, but I do remember you breaking down.
But I do remember you like leaving. Yeah, okay, I
don't don't remember the breakdown though.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
Oh that's okay, that's all right. Listen, we all have.

Speaker 9 (32:27):
We all have things happened anyway. Almost if you walk down,
it doesn't affect you. Everyone knows that if the trauma
is so severe, you block it out.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
I woke up today, so everything's yeah, right.

Speaker 5 (32:44):
Just don't approach Dan y'all from her left side or
make any sudden movements, and you're fine, no trauma at all.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
Do you ever get recognized for Boy Meets World.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Only because the not because of anything else I have?
I have to say, So, what I've been doing a
lot recently is I've been working at a high school.
I'm directing their theater productions, and it's been a real
lovely shift to like being able to introduce a lot
of students to the things that I love about theater.

(33:20):
And I have to say that I've kind of been
blindsided when somebody comes up to me is like I
saw you as Alvin yesterday, and I'm like, oh, okay,
all right, I'm still out there. Right, It's it is
still out there. And I love when that happens because
it's like the kids. I realized that, like all these
episodes were filmed before the kids were even born. Yes,

(33:43):
crazy right, yes, yes, but like it's really nice to
see that it still has a reach, see that like
that these episodes are still making their way into the
the viewing, you know, population of like, what what are
the high schoolers right now? Yeah? Yeah, oh yeah not
ski vide Ohio. That's all I have to say about that.

Speaker 9 (34:04):
Yeah, it is still my favorite thing that happens when
very young people recognize me and I will think, how
is it possible that they know about Boy Meets World?
But then they'll come up to me and they'll say,
excuse me, are you the mom from Girl Meets World.

(34:25):
It's like a right, a full solid you don't even
know about Boy Meets World, or if you do, it's
only because your parent walked in while you were watching
Girl Meets World and said, you know, the one you
should be watching is this one, and then directed them
back to Boy Meets World.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yes, it's still happening.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
I feel like everybody I meet now, if they've watched
Girl Met World, they've gone back to Boy Meets World,
Like I feel like it's been enough time. Like when
it was on the air, I can see that, But
now I feel like everyone knows the.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
Association, right, Not not.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Sure people that just are girl fans.

Speaker 9 (34:56):
Yes, I get people that know me specifically because they've
only watched Girl Meets World.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
And they know that I'm the mom on that show.

Speaker 9 (35:04):
And even then it's like it's it's I actually love
it because they're very aware that, like I'm not the
star of the show. It feels like, yeah, you were
on that that show. I love that show. I love
those kids, and you were there. It's great.

Speaker 5 (35:18):
By the way, just for the record, you were on
in two thousand and six episode called Gone Going for.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
SBU that is that is the one that is the
takeaway I can still get the residual checks, the names
them all. Yeah, that five cents fifteen.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yeah, this is based on the Natalie Holloway case, so
they you know, because everything, of course is ripped from
the headlines.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Oh right, that was That was the one where I
was taking care of my pregnant wife to the hospital
and she comes in it is yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, no, the one I think we're taking your pregnant life.
That's witness.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
That's witness.

Speaker 5 (35:47):
That's right, that's Witness because that's the one where they
have to find nartily to come back.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
To Can you quote lines from it?

Speaker 7 (35:52):
Will?

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Can you do you want to? So?

Speaker 5 (35:55):
So she gets cut in the hands during Witness and
she ends up getting MRSA and he says well, how
bad is it? And she goes if she has family,
you have to call them now, and she ends up
dying like ten seconds later, gone, which which seemed you
want me to do this sadness.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
I don't understand this is true.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I think in TV. I think in TV.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Day like as your day happens, does it like start
to come out in like final script or like how
does that? How does that work?

Speaker 3 (36:26):
It is? It's I don't.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
I God love my wife. I don't know how she
does it? Sometimes because I do. I think in TV,
I can literally when I looked up all three of
your episodes, I am now in my head watching all
three of your episodes.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I mean literally, and so is that because you watched
them over and over like you have watched it.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
I haven't watched SVU in years, but once I see
something that I've seen more than once, then it just
pops into my head again.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
So yeah, so gone is?

Speaker 5 (36:50):
I mean I can see the powder blue shirt that
you're wearing and the green jacket that you have over
your shirt when you come in with your wife.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Okay, only you could.

Speaker 6 (36:57):
Harness this to some.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Like program where we needed answers.

Speaker 7 (37:03):
We should get me will for now on the line,
we need to know what episode you What was the line?

Speaker 5 (37:10):
Yeah, he comes in because she's hitting on she the
wife thinks he's hitting on her on him, honestly.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
If he doesn't get it out, we have to deal
with it later.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
And then.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
And Witness was also important because it was it was
the Da, the woman who plays a DA.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
It was her final episode for a while.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
She comes and she actually disappears for a while and
then comes back.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Anything else will.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I think?

Speaker 3 (37:36):
I'm good?

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Okay, okay, I'm good for now.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
I'm We won't get into Beautiful Frame, which was your
third episode, but there you go.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Okay, So I'm good, I'm all right.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Okay.

Speaker 9 (37:57):
So taking it back to some of your characters from
Boy Meets World, were you going out for a lot
of nerd roles back then?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yes, So, you know, because because this is how you're
kind of people see that you're successful in one role
like pigeonholed. I want to say that, let's make it
a term, right. They see that you're successful in one
role and they're like, oh, okay, let's let's keep him
going on that treadmill. So essentially I came out for
a lot of nerd roles and continue to play kind

(38:26):
of nerdy characters in a lot of the different shows
that I did.

Speaker 5 (38:31):
Were you a nerd? Because as a nerd, I'm curious
were you? I mean did you like fantasy and comic books.

Speaker 8 (38:37):
And D and D?

Speaker 3 (38:37):
And was this year?

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yes a thousand percent? And I I mean the production
that I just directed at the high school was She
Kills Monsters, which is all about D and D. So
you know, it's like it is I that is my wheelhouse.
I love it. And I guess I'm a nerd. I mean,
I am a member of MENSAH great like, yeah, it's true.

(39:04):
I don't know, it's nerd used to have that kind
of like negative connotation, but it's really become part of
the pop culture now cool.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
You know, can we talk a little bit about MENSA.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
It is the first rule that you're not supposed to
talk about.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, club or I don't know how it is?

Speaker 5 (39:24):
Well, how do you can anyone join if you hit us?

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Is it about IQ? Do you have to test to
get in?

Speaker 2 (39:31):
So you test? You test? You take an IQ test
and I took it very young, so the you know,
qualifications were very different. But but the the you take it.
You take a test to get in and if you
if your IQ is at a certain level, then you
can become a member of MENSA by paying the annual
dues and you can go to the annual meetings.

Speaker 8 (39:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
They have this like big get together in like one
place where you have everything from like astrophysics workshops to
like chalk but making. You know, it's like it's completely bizarre,
but it's like your imagine like MENSA members to do.
It's all in one place, right, Wow, So just to
show that, like, actually this is kind of fun and cool.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
So wow, Will's gonna Can you apply online? Can you
take the test online?

Speaker 3 (40:16):
I wouldn't know how to get to the website. I'd
already be I'd.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Already fail because you're an old man smile.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
I would never would never be able to get into MENSA.
But what can I ask? What's the number you need
to get in?

Speaker 2 (40:29):
So I believe when I when I first tested, I
think it was needed to be like above one thirty
and I was like marginally over So uh yeah, but
I bet you could do it. Will, I'm sure. I'm
sure that I will see you at the chocolate making.

Speaker 9 (40:44):
Is there an SV remembering category TV category, like.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
He's Alvin Einstein. If that's what they say to me,
I mean, come on.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Will if you just like watched videos, like seriously, if
you watched lectures about subjects.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
You would be able to test on any subject.

Speaker 5 (41:01):
It would depend what it was. It would depend because numbers.
My brain doesn't hone numbers. I truly do have a
calculating my brain numbers.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, I q is.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
I remember trying to take like an IQ test, and
it's like a really interesting set of reasoning. It's like
it's it's a logic reasoning, Like it's hard to take one.

Speaker 9 (41:17):
In college, I was a psychology major, so I also
had to take one.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yes, I don't know that they're super accurate accurate.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
It's again I think that it depends on what you know,
states you're in when you go to take it. Yeah,
there's a lot of factors at play. Yes, I don't.
I don't claim to be smarter than anyone else. I
think we do.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
We claim that for you, Yes, you.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Smarter than checks in the mail, But again, I think
that really depends on like just finding your group, right,
because what what MENSA feels like is like the nerdy
parts of Reddit right, So it's like it's like build
me a PC, but I want to see the people version.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
All right, cool, Okay, interesting, I'm going to crash the
next MENSA meeting.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
I'm just gonna be that guy. They're going they'll know
the second.

Speaker 9 (42:07):
I walk in, Like then they're gonna have astrophysics, chocolate
making and tv TV category with will producer.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yes, TV TU.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Like tell me an episode.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
I don't know exactly now that I'll do all day.

Speaker 9 (42:21):
So I want to talk to you a little bit
about because you worked opposite another child prodigy in Natalie Portman,
who was sixteen when she made her Broadway debut in
the Diary of Anne Frank with You. What was that experience?

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Like that was great? Natalie is a real gem. She
is incredibly focused, one of the most focused actors that
I've ever worked with. I mean, you could tell I
was seventeen. She was sixteen at the time, and like
tenfold what I would you know bring to a production

(42:53):
like laser focused on these kinds of things. She was
like testing, preparing for the college exams. She was taking
like Japanese I think at the time as well, and
all of this in addition to playing like and Frank
on Broadway. Unbelievable focus for Natalie also incredibly kind and generous,

(43:14):
like for the high Holy Days the she would mite
me over to her house and would celebrate together, and
it was really really nice. But such an incredible actress,
Like I really can't say enough about her.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Wow, how long were you doing the show?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
So I did Falsettos for a little under a year
and then and Frank for about a nine months.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Wow, so much worse.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
And I have to say that, like all of my understudies,
this is this is a fascinating thing. All minor studies
for the big things that I've done are now huge superstars.
And I think that I should just start renting out space.
So you really want to be a big superstar, please be.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
My understudy your understudies.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
So, my my under study for Falsettos was Andrew Leads,
who's like a big, a big superstar in the TV world. Now.
My uno study Fan Frank was Eddie K. Thomas, Oh
my gosh. And and my my under study for the Graduate,
which is the tour I did after college, was Nate Qudry,
who's like's brother and like a success doing a bunch

(44:18):
of shows, right now. But it's like all these people
made it into like like series regulars, like just after
they finished with me, and I think that I had
something to do with it.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
It's a group effort.

Speaker 9 (44:30):
Since the stage is such a sophisticated and adult form
of entertainment.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
Was it easy to still be a kid?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Great question, that's a great question. So that was part
of the reason why I kept coming back to California
to like try to go to school, right. I kept
wanting to be normal, right. I wanted to say like, Okay,
I really enjoy this, but it takes a lot. Like this,
it's a big time commitment. You know, you disappear for
three months when you're doing a film, and you come back,

(44:59):
everyone else is already moved on, right, They're already their
lives have already gone, and you're like, I was in
you know, Ontario for three months, and yeah, uh, it's
a lot. So I kept trying to come back to
be like a normal kid again. But after a few months,
like the bug starts to get you again, and then
you find yourself like, all right, well i'll do your audiobook. Okay, fine,
maybe I'll do this this one role on this thing,
all right, Fine, I'm back in a whole hog.

Speaker 8 (45:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's like there's no stopping it.

Speaker 8 (45:23):
It is.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
It is a bug that I want to constantly, like
you know, have go away, but I but it keeps
coming back, and I don't. I don't mind. Yeah, I
love that fact, like that's part of what you know.
Directing is for me now, It's like I get to
introduce the joy to like the younger.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, I've heard it put like you know that to
tell young actors. If you can do anything else, do
something else. But if you can't not act, you're an actor,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
It's like, you can't you can't avoid it.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
If if it's just gonna always be a part of
then you just have to start working your life around it.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
In some capacy.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
I can see that you're reading a lot. So that's
that's really good. The books behind the shows.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
The writer is officially said he's done with acting.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
We yeah, he loves directing. I mean, I love working
with actors. I just yeah, don't want to.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
And you know I do. I do readings every once
in a while now to kind of get the bug again.
And it's a different experience that I have with it now.
Like as a director and as an older actor now
not older but I mean middle age actor. Now it's
it's it's a different feeling than it was when you know,
we were younger, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's
just kind of a it's what it is, what it is.

(46:40):
But I do have to say one of my favorite
things to do show wise, I used to do this
show called Gravid Water and it was an actor and
an improviser that we get together and the actor would
memorize all the lines of one character of a two
person scene, and the improviser had never heard the scene before.
So I worked. I worked with some of the biggest

(47:02):
names in like you know TV right now, like Tom
Middle Bitch to work with uh work, Shareo, Terry. I mean,
like a bunch of different like I work at Chevy
Chase once. But again it's like they were the improvisers.
I was doing all the lines of one character and
you have to justify it, right.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
So you have to keep returning to the lines.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Is the idea.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I want to see that.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
That's so it's it's such a great show. So after
COVID it kind of shut down. But like I'm they're
hoping to get it back on the ground again. So
but that is like, because it's immediate, you have to
have everything has to be there, and then, right, nothing's
going to be the same after it. Right.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
What's your when you look back on on especially your
stage career, is there a show that stands out for
you as your favorite?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Question? Yeah? I mean I love the story of Falsettos.
That was a really beautiful story to tell over and
over again, especially you know, Happy Pride by the way,
it was a story that needed to be told, and
I'm really glad it was told when it was. I

(48:07):
have to say that, like all of the proessions that
I've done have been worthwhile in some way, right, And
it's really hard for me to pick a favorite because
I was in a different place personally for like each one.
I really loved doing Shakespeare. We toured that around the
country with the acting company and played in theaters that

(48:28):
had not seen a stage play before, let alone Shakespeare.
So it was like we were performing in these like
really really small, you know, like ninety nine seat houses
that were like transformed from barn. We had to like
restage the entire thing based on like the parameters of
like what we have for entrances and exits and like
that was really fun. But you know, like gravid water,

(48:50):
like I talked about, is immediately it's then and there.
So they all have value. And I would also say
like the directing, like as you as you know writer,
it becomes you value that just as much.

Speaker 9 (49:03):
Yeah, and you and writers share experience as Benjamin in
the touring company of the Graduate. What was that like
then when you guys crossed paths. Did you have a
lot of interaction at that time?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
We didn't know. So again they were like we were,
we were shipping in the night, so we completely like
missed each other as we were exchanging roles there.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, because you also you never did it with Jerry Hall,
did you?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Just after Jerry left, so there was a whole new cast.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Basically, so you were Nate Corgie went along and the
rest of the cast went with you.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
But me, Yeah, me and Jerry. So you were rehearsing
in LA while we were finishing up our leg right.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, exactly exactly, audition in New York, rehearsed in LA
and then came back to me.

Speaker 9 (49:43):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (49:44):
Jonathan worked with Lorraine Brocco, Linda Gray and Kelly McGillis
as the Missus Robinson's and writer.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
You worked with.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Jerry Hall, Jerry Hall, and that was it, right, Yeah,
because then then I went back and did it again.
Did you know that, Jonathan, I went and did it
in Australia's seven years later it was, and did it
with Jerry again.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
It was it was crazy.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Is being in a touring company even harder work?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Is it harder work? Yes? And no, it's because you
don't have your like family or you know, support network
around all the time. With the acting company, they had
these signs that were made right like with arrows pointing
like to the dressing room or like to the stage
right without which we would be completely lost, like some
of us would still be backstage right now. But because

(50:32):
like when you're going on a touring company, you're there
for like a few weeks, you know some now they're
doing like split weeks, and so like you're there for
a couple of days and then you go on to
the next theater and they set up overnight and you
come to the show for a weekend and they pick
up and you're you know, out on the road again.
On Monday.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
The graduate was so much work too, because as Benjamin,
we had one scene that we weren't in the rest
of the time, We're on stage the entire You're carrying
the entire show, and I just remember like being exhausted,
like it was. It was like running a marathon every night.
And then didn't Wasn't there a night where you hit
your head and Nate had to go on halfway through

(51:10):
the show? Yeah, well I remember because Nate hadn't ever,
he never got to go on for me. Uh and
and then he was that first I think that was
the first time he went on.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
He took over for you. Yes, what it was halfway
through a show. She had to simulate sex and rider.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
But like, so the bed it was a single bed, right,
a single bed made up sheets like like sewn on
on the corner. Was this was a bedside table, right,
And there's a scene when we flopped back and we're like, oh,
we're reacting like something that you know, our dad has said, uhh.
And the table is connected to the side of the bed,

(51:48):
so like there's no movement in it. And so one
night I just was off just a slight bit, and
so I flapped back at like on the corner of
the bedside table in my head so hard. That was
like allowed badang right, And I don't remember this writer,
but like that set was the whitest set I've ever
worked on.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
It's all white. It's literally cream colored, like loo every windows.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
I spent the rest of the and I'm wearing like
a white shirt with like khaki pants and and I'm
I'm like, oh man, my head hurts. And I come
back to my hands full of blood. Right, so I'm
like to finish the scene, and so I'm like holding
my head like you know, trying to like stop the
blood is I'm like backing up toward the exit and
and like sure enough, it's coming like down my neck

(52:30):
all over my all my things. People are like, I
think somebody actually got really worried about my safety. In
the front row. One was like, I'm a doctor, is
he okay? And coming back to me now? So this
was a yell and and uh we went to yell
hospital intermission while Nate got into my clean version of
my clothes and then finished the rest of the show.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Oh my god, what did you end up eating? Stitches?

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Staples? I got staples, Oh.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Connecticut we do staples and.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Hacktic because you never have a break, like you there's
not a moment, there's not a scene where you are
off stage and that entire play.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Oh my god, that's so hectic.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Oh my yeah.

Speaker 9 (53:14):
Well, as you mentioned, you are now teaching and directing
for kids, sometimes in the age group of when you
were running around Broadway being nominated for awards. What is
the best piece of advice you try to pass on
to the kids you work with?

Speaker 2 (53:31):
So the best piece of advice that I try to
pass on to the kids is, well, there's a lot,
but it really comes down to kind of the fundamentals.

Speaker 8 (53:42):
Of like.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
What it is that we do? Right? Like, well, like
I'm going to ask everyone in this room, like, like,
what does acting mean to you? Right? What is it?
What is acting?

Speaker 1 (53:53):
That's a really tough question at this point. I you know,
I've had so many different answers. But to me, it's
it's it's embodying a story. It's it's it's it's taking
all of your humanity, your body, your voice, your artistic
expressive capacities and telling a story that was already written

(54:14):
before you. Like you're not, I mean, imbrobbing is like
creating a story. But like I think acting just the
purest form is that you're embodying a story in some
commit Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
O character, I'll take what he said.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Do you think, well any difference.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Yeah. Well I came to a pretty.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
I don't I wouldn't say horrible realization, but a realization
that I'm not an actor. And I came to that
realization a while ago because I think acting is about
the craft, like writer was talking about and kind of
internalizing the story and embodying the character, and I never
did that. I care only about the reaction of the
audience and making sure the audience has a good time.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
So I realized I was an entertainer more than I
was an actor.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
Because that's all I had to do, if I had to,
if I have to flop down and knock my head
against something like you did to get the reaction from
the audience, and that's what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
You bleed, I'll bleed.

Speaker 5 (55:11):
So yeah, So I realized that I didn't have the
kind of you know, the emotionality, intensity and the connection
within myself to be an actor, whereas I'll go out
and do what I have to do to get the reaction.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
From the audience. So I always classified myself more as
an entertainer.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Which is I think that's totally valid, and I think
that there's there's a place for both, right, Right, I
always tell my students acting fundamentally is living truthfully in
given circumstances. Right, two separate things, right, So, the given
circumstances are what you are given in a script. It's
the who, what, when, where, why, and how it's done
by the by the screenwriter, the playwright, whatever you happen

(55:47):
to be doing. Right, But there's a second part to it.
It's incredibly important that it's the most fundamental thing for
the child professional actors that I work with, and that's
to live truthfully. We all have to bring so much
more of our selves, our own experiences into the things
that we do, into that intentionality, because that that is
what makes an incredibly fascinating audition. Right when you see

(56:10):
someone and you're like, I have no idea what they've
just done, but it's completely changed my view of this script. Right,
that's that because it's because they brought themselves. There's something
in every actor that they have. There's so much more
power in the experiences that they've had that I really
try to stress to my students to like find and
I break it down for them and we go through

(56:31):
like the beats and you know, the fundamentals. But finding
more of yourself in these characters is fundamental. That's great.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Yeah, I do too.

Speaker 5 (56:40):
You know what I'm gonna ask next, don't you write, Danielle?
What's the thing that I have to know about every person.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
That we talked to?

Speaker 4 (56:45):
Where he grew up?

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Where are you now? I have a location thing?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Are you?

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Do you have a pick?

Speaker 4 (56:51):
Can you send him a pin?

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Are you in New York or la?

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Right, I'm in New York.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
I'man you are okay?

Speaker 2 (56:55):
So it is afternoon.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
If you think that's going to be enough, you're wrong.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Exactly a New York art.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
I'm happy to talk about this. No, I haven't been
getting suspicious packages anymore so, but no, I live in
Croton on Hudson's It's about forty five minutes to an
hour north of the city, and it's in northern Westchester,
so right on the kind of the border beautiful trails here.
The whole reason we moved up was because I really
liked trail running, and it's equally dangerous and you know exciting.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
So I like it too.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
I'm a big failed trail running as well. That's a
tough one to say, yeah, because it is.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
It's the thing I like about it is like no
one cares about your time. Like any time you say
I've done a fifty k and you know, on a trail,
they're like, wow, that's awesome. How long did you know?
It's like like fifty k, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 9 (57:48):
So looking back now, thirty years since your episodes on
Boy Meets World, what advice would you like to give
young Jonathan c kaplan if you had it, if you
you had the time machine and you could go back,
what would you tell yourself?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Okay, uh, it doesn't get better. As a next fan, no,
no it doesn't. I mean I wasn't paying attention then.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
You know, I was like exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
But but as a young Jonathan professional actor, I say, like,
doesn't get better. For the Mets, I'd say to really
like enjoy the ride. So it's so hard to do
as a kid because like you're doing the things that
you're kind of signed but also excited about, but it's
all you know, you're kind of like a goldfish you know,
in these kinds of situations where it's like you're really

(58:44):
excited about that, and all of a sudden it's done.
You're like, Wow, you're really excited about the next thing.
Every every project, it becomes like a new toy.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And so you know, talking about the episodes of like
Wyman's World or Brotherly Love or you know, Platypus Man,
like all the Random show existed in the nineties. Yeah,
you know, I think about the experiences I had with
people more than I do about the roles. Yeah, so
I'd say like to hold onto those as much as
I could.

Speaker 9 (59:13):
So great, Shonathan, Thank you so much for spending your
time with us this morning. It was you were truly
one of the most fascinating guests we've we've had. We
so enjoyed our time with you. Uh and so thank
you so much for coming here and sharing with us.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Absolutely, guys will great, Thank you too.

Speaker 4 (59:29):
By Wow. Absolutely everything about him is interesting.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
It really Yeah, makes me feel bad about myself some
of these guests we've been having on lately, Danielle, can
we have a stinker once in a while, please?

Speaker 3 (59:41):
So interesting. You have not believed his resume before boy
meets world like and that we have we didn't know
anything about it.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Doing this recap, we were like, oh remember that kid,
and we're like, oh, yeah, he was around a bunch,
and then he comes back like he was around a lot.
And then now to realize, like, oh he was such
a pro Like he was, he must have just been
like what is happening?

Speaker 9 (01:00:03):
I can't even imagine what our set must have felt
like to him. I can in Shining. He seems to
be the type of person who wouldn't want to make
it sound negative, So I'm going to do what he
would do and just frame it as a positive. Truly,
how fun must it have been to be a twelve
year old who has normally been in very high pressure,

(01:00:24):
high stress controlled giving it your all eight performances a
week around with a bunch of adults who are also
taking themselves very seriously and their roles very seriously, to
then come on to our set that felt like playtime
with a group of young kids who who thoroughly enjoyed
each other and found fun everywhere. And for your scripts

(01:00:47):
to be how can we make this more fun? How
can we find more funny? And for him to be
a character who's getting laughs and how do we how
do we like? What a great feeling that must have
been and a change of pace, So.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
So cool.

Speaker 9 (01:01:00):
I'm so glad he he was willing to come and
talk with us, just like he was willing to come
and be a part of our little show a little.

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
Was willing to come and be Yeah, you're coming from
to Tony Awards to on a set where we're probably like, hey,
catch this twizzler in your mouth.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Like I mean, watch will catch throw a grape?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
It's like, it's what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
It's so interesting that, like, you know, if you're on
TV or if you do movies, it's so easy to
find out somebody's resume, but when you do theater, it's gone.
Like the fact that he's done like fifty productions of
all this stuff, we like, we can't find that information nowhere.
I guess there's like a there's a Broadway database for
like Broadway shows, but like off Broadway shows, like little

(01:01:41):
little underground theater projects. Like he's working all the time
and you never hear about it. It's just you know,
if you're not there that night.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
So cool.

Speaker 9 (01:01:51):
Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode
of pod Meets World as always. You can follow us
on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us
your emails pod Meets World Show at email dot com,
and we have merch.

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by
two separate yet equally important groups, the police who investigate
crimes and the district attorneys to prosecute the offenders.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
These are their merch.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Pod Meetsworldshow dot com writer send us out.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
We love you all, pod dismissed.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Podmeets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel,
Wilfridell and Ryder Strong Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman,
Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Tarasubasch producer, Mattie Moore engineer and Boy Meets World Superman
Easton Out. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon.
Follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show, or email

(01:02:45):
us at Podmeats World Show at gmail dot com.