"Call to Action" (S1E13)

From the arrival of Grand Moff Tarkin to the Ghost Crew having a bounty on their backs to a chilling foreshadowing from Kanan. And what is up with Sabine's rangefinder on her helmet? And Chopper is like a cat? All this and a super sized fact check from J.C. is what awaits in this episode!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dave always said that our two was a dog and
Chopper is a cat, and so your cat is like
man like. You don't know exactly which nouns and verbs
were expressed with that, but you.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Get the gist. Hey, what's up everybody.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
It's Vanessa Marshall, the voice of Harrison Doula, Specter two,
and with me today.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hi, it's Taser Car Sabine run Specter five.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
And we've got.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
Hayla Gray, Ezra Bridger or Specter six. And with us is.

Speaker 5 (00:41):
Hey, I'm John Ley Brody, the Nonspector, full on moderator,
and today we are talking about season one, episode thirteen,
Call to Action. Here we go, how's everybody doing? Little
check in at the top of the show, as always,
cause you know, we're friends, and this check in is
also for our listeners too. We love everybody, We love
you all, And how's everybody doing great?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah as well? Yeah, how are you doing? John? We
know that, John, Thank you. I feel so seen good.

Speaker 5 (01:10):
And you know, it's really fun again I say this
every week gets so fun rewatching the show. But now
we're ramping up towards the end of season one, which
is kind of wild. It feels like we got here
really quickly, and you really see things coming to a
head and leading up to some sort of grand finale.
It's it's really exciting, and watching it through a different
lens is a lot of fun. And I cannot wait

(01:32):
to hear what you think of this one. And then
the next couple episodes are coing over have a lot
of stuff too, So we've got a lot of We've
got a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
So yeah, thank you for asking.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
I appreciate that, my pleasure. All right, So with that said,
shall we do my recap? I tried to truncate this
down because there's so much in this episode, and I
know there's a lot to discuss, but so I'm going
to get through this and then let's let's see what
goes from there, all right. Season one, episode thirteen, called
Action Original air day, January twenty sixth, twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Here comes the recap.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
The Ghost CRU's latest actions have gained so much attention
that Grandma Tarkan himself has traveled to Lethal to express
his dissatisfaction on with how things are being handled. He
wants the Rebel stopped, and he wants them stop now.
It was a golf Travis is selling his soul to
the Empire is now public, and he even throws the
Ghost Crew under the bus and puts a bounty on
their heads. This latest roadblock and the feeling of overall

(02:22):
lack of forward progress makes Ezra feel like the team
has always taken two sets forward, two sets back, like
Paula Abdul in nineteen eighty eight. But Canaan shares a
plan to infiltrate an imperial communications tower so they can
broadcast the message to citizens and do what a Laddin
should have done in the beginning with Jazzon, which is
tell them the truth, a plan that naturally everyone is
on board with.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Grandmo.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
Tarkan meanwhile, is like Tommy Lee Jones and the Fugitive,
ordering the troops, the church in every residence, space house,
dog's hand house, farm house, lavin, these rebels, that's my
time with these Jones vote. All these things come to
a head with the when the Ghost Crew puts the
full plan into play and gets ambushed by the Empire
at the communications tower, with the walls closing in and
the thought of a bigger goal, and this prompts Canaan
to make a needs of the many outweigh the needs

(03:03):
of the few type decision when he stays behind to
take on the empire. As the rest of the group
sticks to the plan, the crew is successful and able
to broadcast their message the citizens with as are emphasizing
the need for everyone to stand up together. However, this
small victory comes with the worry of whether anyone even
heard the message and also at the great cause of
Canaan being captured by the Empire. Though the mood is

(03:24):
rather somber and a big piece of the group missing.
Harah assures everyone that, like the Lenny Kravitz song from
nineteen ninety one, it ain't over till it's over. And
that is the recap for Season one, episode thirteen, Call to.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Action problem, Well done, Duel.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Let's go.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
That's the first thought I had when I saw it
in twenty fifteen, and then on the rewatch when and
as I said, and like, oh, like the Paul au
Duels song, every win, we get a lose. So everybody
initial thoughts. What's what comes to mind as we dive
back into this episode.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
The very first thought I had is at the artwork
in the very opening scene of this episode is gorgeous,
Like I know, our the artwork on this show is
just beautiful and it gets I feel like it gets
better and better as the seasons progress. But man, that
just that first shot is so sick. And of course
obviously the music is like, you know, goosebump inducing.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh, but I love the episode.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
Yeah, the Imperial March, which I'm incredible. You're just like,
oh my god, like that no matter how many times
you've heard it, every time.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right, every time, it just grabs you. Yeah, yeah, good, No.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
No, I was just gonna say, you know, I had
a lot of thoughts about this episode. We'll we'll talk
about it, but just overall, I just the this episode,
and I feel like the next episode really take everything
to like the next level and things start to feel
really like the stakes are much higher, and uh, I

(04:57):
don't know, I just feel like, okay, things it almost
feel like more and more cinematic to me, and it's
exciting because I actually should be told. I think I
said this last time too. I forgot this. I was
it was like I was Taylor and I was watching
it for the first time.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
I didn't remember anything shot shot. I just I didn't.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
It was like, I'm like, did I watch this episode
ten years ago because this is amazing and I didn't
I admittedly I didn't remember really the plot points, so
it was like very exciting to watch almost for the
first time.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah, I agree, the art beautiful that they do landscape
so well. Oh yeah, but it feels like now it's
going from There are some episodes that feel like procedural,
like like we're watching a procedural and this feels like, Okay,
now we're tapping into a sort of bigger story arc
with characters. I have a question for JC or anyone

(05:57):
where grand mov Tarkan falls in the hierarchy. I was
trying to explain it and I was like, yeah, it's
basically the Emperor Grandmoth target. I have no idea if
that is right. I'm like, wait, where does this dude fall?
So that question is for Tia. We'll get answered. But no,
I thought it was I thought it was really cool,
although I also I was looking at an image of

(06:18):
something later on, maybe John or vanessln is did they
not know how to light the show? At the beginning,
it's like two dimensional lighting on everything, and then later
seasons it's like they're lighting it cinematically, like it the
lights are in the right place for like a Fincher film,
almost like when they're in the when they're with the wolves,

(06:41):
you see you can just see on the shadows of them,
whereas the lighting here you notice there's no shadow on
the face. It's just like a ringline right on the frame.
Does that make sense? Yes?

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, interesting when you.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Look at frames of it, like when we go to
Collins and you sign like a print, you notice too,
like there is more of a cinematic frame on some
of it. And I noticed this even though it sort
of stemmed from the catalyst was I was like, oh, wow,
this is a beautiful frame. But then I was thinking
further along.

Speaker 6 (07:12):
I don't know, I.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Noticed, Yeah, I noticed that as well, both in the
ghost and also exterior shots and the things with the animals,
like the loth cat. Things just had a greater richness
or dimension that I'm like, I don't really remember that
in the first episode, so maybe they did find it.

(07:36):
But there were many there were many moments like with
the inquisitor with like sort of what was going on
in the night sky behind him, and there was so
much more dimension. What the moonlight even looked like on
Canaan's face. The music gave me chills at the beginning
as well, and the loth cat stuff I thought was hilarious.

(07:58):
I was also distracted by Jason Isaac as the inquisitor
because I just, you know, I just can't get the
white Lotus out of my head. I was like, Wow,
this guy is such range. Gosh, yeah, we can be happy.
We can be happy with nothing or you know, like whatever,

(08:19):
and and you know now he's Canaan's worst nightmare.

Speaker 7 (08:24):
But uh, I also was I love Sabine is such
the way you like, you know, you go in you
break this punch that like you handled biz and I loved.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I loved seeing that, and uh I felt I felt
a level of community again. I just it just gets
more and more. I also do not remember watching this
at the time, or if I did, for some reason,
in this rewatch it foreshadowed Canaan's sacrifice later gosh, yes,

(08:56):
So I kept thinking, like, how innocent were you?

Speaker 4 (08:59):
Spoiler?

Speaker 1 (09:00):
You like you thought this was you think this is bad. Oh,
it's gonna get way worse, Like you know how it's
a little appetizer for how they deal with his absence,
that sort of heartbreak and regret and needing to follow
Folkram's orders versus you know. I love that Ezra's like, yeah,
whatever you know, and that that you guys go and
get it done. Well, yes, of course, but I'm saying

(09:25):
the problem, the problems that are presented in this are
later solved in a way that you know, at the
end of this episode, we we can't do that. So
uh anyway, Yeah, I also love the banter between Ezra
and Canaan in terms of him sort of getting you

(09:47):
motivated to do this to you know, to get you
to say count me in. I don't know, I really,
I just I felt I kept saying to myself, like, wow,
you were really involved in something very special. You know
the way zeb is like, ah, you know, doing whatever
he's doing, and I love how he interacts as other Stormtroopers.
I'm like, wait, Steve's fighting himself.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Hold on, That's what I said that in my mind yesterday,
I was like, oh, that's Steve on Steve action right there.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Oh wait, something else and then and then Steve Stanton
also as Tarkan, was incredible, So we'll have him come
talk to us at some point here. But I don't know,
it was just really blown away in general.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, what you said, I wasn't sure this is a
Rebels rewatch, So I'm I guess we can assume that
people have already seen the show, because I was like,
how much can we say this early on? But Vanessa
just did it, so I'll piggyback off here.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
I think our statute of limitations on spoiler alert is safe.
It's been more than ten years.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, like watching this episode felt so much more. Okay,
first of all, when we watched this episode the first time,
for those of us who did, I'm not naming.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
I'm not calling anyone else. What did I do today?
I mean, I don't remember. I'm kidding, I kidding the
ad ats, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well no, I'm just saying that obviously none of us
knew what was to come, and so the the gravity
of the situation was even though it is a really
you know, it's it's emotional, like that scene between Canaan
and Ezra when Ezra is having doubts about going through
with the plan.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
I mean, it's so touching and poignant, but.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Knowing what we know happens, you know further down the line,
it makes this sacrifice or this you know, willingness to
sacrifice himself for the greater good like that much more
powerful and meaningful.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
And yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Like, oh no, this is this is this is just
like a little a little uh tidbit or a little
like pre pre cursor to what the pain we're all
going to feel when you rewatched those later.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, I don't know, it's gonna be hard. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
I have a this is I'm sure y'all can answer
this question. But you know, we got to give jac
something to do at the end. Right when at the
top of the show, when they're talking about like the
people are like Jedi, what do you mean there couldn't
possibly be a Jedi. That's some ancient mystic something something.

(12:26):
I'm like, wait, how long ago from when these people
are having this conversation? Was ordered sixty six because I
thought I knew the I thought I.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Knew the answer, and it didn't.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
The way they're talking in the beginning of the episode,
it sounds like ancient history, like us talking about druids
or something.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (12:48):
I was just curious as to why it sounds like
it was so far back in time that people are like,
it's unbelievable that there might be a Jedi alive and jediing.

Speaker 5 (13:01):
Currently, it's probably been at least ten because as there's
what thirteen fourteen years old, and he's the same age
as Luke and Leo. So if you put do the
math there, I would say it's been about fourteen years ish.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
That's not long enough to be like, oh Jedi, No,
couldn't be fourteen years.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
I mean, I think it's more.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I could be wrong, JC will know, But I think
it's more that they were annihilated instantly everywhere, and it's
not so much so much time as but it does.
The way they talk about it is like, oh, back
in the ancient history. Yeah, but I but I I
feel like more than time, it's just it's impossible that
there would be a Jedi because they've all been deleted

(13:44):
in a way like that that's a thing of the past.
It's a relic that is no longer just because literally
all those files were deleted. So but but but maybe
it has been longer than I realized. I don't. I
don't think it's been that long though. You weren't like
that though.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
It's very interesting because with the empire ruling with this
like Iron fist. They don't want people to even acknowledge
this past history. It's just like in the show Silo
which David Oh is in Oh that deals with these
rebels that trying to figure out this hidden history that
was a race. And you know, again we don't get
too far into what's going on in the world now,
but that is happening now in the world, like certain

(14:23):
things are being a race from the archives. So with
that both you saying that, I'm like, oh, like the
way he's going about it, if his attitude is well,
I don't even don't even acknowledge that. To me, that
never happened. Don't don't even go there. But jac will
have a better.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
In depth.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
I have logic question on that then, like how if
Jedi come about, you don't have to be born to
a Jedi to be a Jedi, correct, Like if the
Sith are there, that's the antithesis of a Jedi, but
same sort of spiritual power, correct, Like they're able to
tap into the force negatively, how could they be Like, well,
there must not be any Jedi for fifteen years when

(15:03):
a Jedi can just be born like like take an Ezra, right,
I get they have to be trained, but like they
can have within them this ability, this innate thing that
would be a Jedi, Like how could you be well,
for fifteen years none was born, how would you know that? Well?

Speaker 1 (15:22):
The Mediclorians that were introduced in episode one that Anakin
had Medichlorians in his blood count like it's a it's
a tangible thing that can be groomed into you know,
Jedi or said then again, JC will pontificate, I'm sure,
but I think if you delete that DNA everywhere, yes, yes,

(15:47):
you can have people who are for sensitive. I mean
like Jason has probably my son probably has Medichlorians because
he's Canaan's kid. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
But you don't have to only be born to a
Jedi to be no, right like ephrom Bridger and they
weren't Jedi, right right right?

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I think, well, this is this is the controversy with
bringing midichlorians into it, because originally what made you a
Jedi as far as like old school episode before me,
you know with my mullet going to see the movie,
was you were given a hero's journey and you either
take it or you don't, and then you build things
within yourself to do the right thing over and over

(16:27):
and you build that sense and awareness of you know,
all everything Yoda said, okay, and that he was able
to cultivate that given the training, et cetera, like you're saying,
and then you know, episode one comes around the prequels
and suddenly there's this midichlorian thing that like, wait a minute,
what do you mean there's like a cell count. What

(16:47):
are you talking about? It's an intangible thing. So JC
is going to have to clear this up officially, I think,
don't you think, John.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
Yeah, yeah, he'll get into the bacteria of the course
of the forest. But I think you bring up an
interesting point, Taylor, because they only want to acknowledge a
sith Again. I think it's just elitist attitude, like this
is the supreme thing, and look, maybe we should get
Malcolm Gladwell on here somehow with this revisionist history.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
I would go crazy. I think that would be a
good guest.

Speaker 5 (17:14):
Because I think that would be a really cool breakdown
the parallels with thin like the Roman Empire, Nazi Germany
and all this stuff, because when you draw all those things,
there's correlations of oh, these are the supreme race, which
I feel like that's how they would view the Sith.
The Jedi were beneath them and they were erased, and
they are never coming back. So the three that's really
thought provoking. Malcolm Gladwell, please, we would love more.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
I don't want to keep going in this sort of
recursive way, like there's more to that that makes sense
because if you erase people, we know you have to
be born, your parents are your DNA. But if a
Jedi doesn't need to be born to Jedi parents, and
it is something that is just manifest in the world,
then how could you possibly be like there's none out
like for fifteen years, they're never born again. It just

(17:59):
doesn't make it. He sense to me. Do you see
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Like, well, I think, yeah, go ahead and finish. Uh well,
I think from from what I understand and I and
then this is like you know j c is kind
of has a doctorate in this. But the you know
when you hear Palpatine, you know, Anakin gets seduced by

(18:21):
the dark side. He you know, you use your anger,
you know, you use your dark energy, and you go
toward that. As a Jedi, you you cease fighting, you surrender,
you yield, you you kind of I Keto a situation
you you cultivate the ability to you know, as excuse me,
Luke Skywalker meets his father who you know spoiler alert there,

(18:45):
but you know he he wants him to go to
the dark side, and Luke could have killed him, but
he has mercy in that moment with his father, Like
those are not that's not the path of the sith
like that. Did did Luke Skywalker have mindic Chlorine's you know?
Or did he cultivate that with Yoda's training and obi
Wan and this and that? Like You're making a really

(19:06):
good point, and I cannot wait for JC to address
this because to the extent that the Yoda training, the
obi Wan training, if those people are no longer here,
you wouldn't know. Like Caanaan, sorry, Canaan feels incomplete because
his master was killed. You know, he never got like

(19:28):
the he never made it to twelfth grade if you
were will like as a sophomore, his teacher died. So
he feels inadequate to teach you what happens in twelfth
grade because he only made it to tenth grade. So
there is a measure of training and surrender and the
habit of going to the you know, sort of the
light side, if you will, as opposed to the dark side.

(19:51):
Enough training of that, you know that, as we saw
Anakin do with Ahsoka. If you if you no longer
have that, that's certainly deadens the odds of someone with
force sensibility doing anything with it. So if all your
teachers are gone, it's safe to say that's highly unlikely
that like, yeah, they might be for sensitive, but they're

(20:12):
not going to know how to mold and shape that
and train themselves, you know, as Canaan tries to do
with you, and as you see Ezra naturally do as
as as troubled situations come about, like as they have
with the Inquisitor, et cetera. You see Ezra use his
abilities like that. So there is some kind of intrinsic

(20:34):
sense of what you need to do because you kind
of have done a few of those moments.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
On your Nay, I've been doing it in on the
thal from something. Yes, it begs the question for me then,
is to being not a Jedi?

Speaker 1 (20:44):
I would says.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
If genuinely, if it works in that way, I get
the two things, the medicalorian aspect of it and then
the like spiritual innate thing that you then foster within
someone with training. If she's been with Canan the whole
as well and have this training. When she wields the
Dark Sapper, I'm like, is that not a Jedi?

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Then, well she's a Mandalorian. I mean, my god, how
are all the things? She's all the things? Bro, she's
I mean there's so many lads.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Can you Mandalorian? And uh Jedi?

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Why not.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
You know this?

Speaker 5 (21:21):
This is raising so many interesting like philosophical questions too,
because I think of like socrates theory of recollection because
he believed you'll learn stuff you come in like you're
uncovering what was already there. So it's like you're so
the fact is it was kids met for ez Read
to be a Jedi because he always was one. He
just had to uncover it. And yeah, so it's a
very interesting thing. And back then there's no TikTok victorials

(21:43):
on using your Midichlorian power, so yeah, you just had
to figure it out.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
We might need to have j C come in like
flag on the field, like, I don't know, man, what
people are in it? Hold on, we got her in it.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
Stick around, but uh, one more question for JC is
there such thing? It's like a like a synthetic midi
chlorian like in Compound V and the Boys where you
can inject yourself Like, is there like a midiclorin steroid
that somebody could give themselves if they weren't for sensitive
and then become for sensitive.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
I hope not. That's cheating, I know, but like it happens.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
So that's the new trilogy that I M. Kimberg's working on.

Speaker 5 (22:19):
That's and it's gonna have its own thirty for thirty
and everything and the controversy behind it. And this person
wasn't really a Jedi, and that's why they won the
the Cathalon, the Jedi Games. It's all about the Jedi pds.
This whole episode had a very like Empire Strikes Back
sort of vibe. Uh you know which which next week's

(22:40):
episode does two which which which we'll get into when
we get there. And the big thing that prompted the
one of the things that prompted the Empire strikes Back
thing was the pro Droid because the first time I
saw the pro dui Empire strikes Back. I'm throwing this
to JC because I know j C will know the
origins of this pro Droid. He probably JC is probably
fluent in the pro droid lineguage, but that distinct I

(23:03):
was like, oh my god, Like it just took me
back to that place. And then the arc of which
this episode took was very Empire strikes back instead a Han,
it's Kanaan that gets left behind and now it's up
to the rest of the crew to hopefully get his rescue.
So Jas pro Droid and Midiclorians.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, the music really harkened back to those original devastating
moments in the movies. I felt like it really cashed
in on that sound that that that music just takes
us right to those stakes.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
It was really I don't want to use the word
triggering because that can be negative, but like I was
in the second I mean I was like, who is this?
Is this Palpatine? Oh it's Tarkan, you know, like who
is you know the the opening with the destroyer ship
coming in, I was like, wait, is this Vader? I
don't remember what's happening. I know, I was like, is
Vader about you arrived? Because I didn't remember this episode

(23:58):
at all, but really ominous, Yeah, really very scary.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Also, the hologram of the Ghost Crew when he puts
us on blast, I'm like, we look so badass.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
You were like sick. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
I was like, Oh, do you want people to think
we're bad guys and help us get caught or do
you want to make us look like the coolest crew
in the galaxy and make like little kids want to
grow up to be us? Because I'm thinking the latter
is more likely.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
It's like, it's like the jail photos person so tracking
to get out after three months and now you signed
a wim.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Dancing with the stars and everything. Convict. No, what was
saying hot convict?

Speaker 3 (24:47):
I think anyway, Yeah, that we were we were hot
convicts in that hologram.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
I was very I was like, okay, I know, I
was thinking I want to get I want a copy
of that. I know I want to shirt. We don't
have some.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
I've never seen that image in anything else.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
But I think I've seen that. I've seen Hara in
that position where she's sort of running somewhere else before,
but I don't I'd like that. That's like a cutout
sticker collection.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
An you mean, if anyone listening knows of like that
image existing somewhere, whether it's like an art print or
merch or something.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Would you let us.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Know because I'm I'm I'm I want something with that
holagram image of us, and.

Speaker 5 (25:31):
We'll bring you on the show to present it. How
about that actually incentive because we do want to bring
some fans on the show. So something I want to
bring up too, because we're talking about how this hits
way different when you know how it all ends up
when we get to the end of the seventy seventy
seven is episodes Agent Callus, because we know where that
ends up. Ultimately, his reaction when the Inquisitor kills those

(25:52):
two troopers, you start to see the beginning of maybe
I've joined the wrong side.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, that was so interesting. His facial expression and his
eyes didn't his eyes seem so profoundly sharp? I felt
like I saw into his soul. It was more it
was the animation was more soulful somehow. I don't know
that the glimmer they're like a hazel color. It was
so powerful as compared to the inquisitors are sort of

(26:19):
like yellow and catlike.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
But was he not already He's not already a double
agent at this point?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
I don't wait, wait kidding, I think ye when is
that revealed? Right, that's like a season you siled it
for me.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, that's like.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
A season three thing.

Speaker 8 (26:46):
Yet.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
Okay, but it's you know again, like it makes me
really appreciate the road mapping of this entire series because
it's very like Dan Fogelman is one of the best
to do it. Like when you watch this A is Us,
you see there was a clear plan of where to
take these just when you watch Paradise, a clear plan
of where these characters are going.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's along those lines with this.

Speaker 5 (27:05):
When I'm rewatching, I'm like, oh my god, like all
the seeds were clearly planted. Or even Canaan's sacrifice line
if you know anything about writing, like, okay, he's going
to do something in this episode. He's probably going to
get captured. You don't know that this is going to
be an even bigger, bigger, bigger thing wait on the line.
And even Ezra's speech at the end, because as we know,
a word ends up with Ezra. He has this amazing speech.

(27:26):
You know, I know the spoileringer. This whole episode is
spoiler alerts. It's it makes me appreciate so much more,
Like you know, like in procedurals they had, like the
red yarn that connects everything, like there's a clear roadmap
that took us to where we're supposed to go, and
everything was almost there in plain sight, but we had
to earn it in order to get there, you know.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
I think it's also this show also does stuff about
sort of healing your past, not living at the affect
of your past. Ezra is afraid he's going to lose
his new family like he lost the last one. And
believe me, there are plenty of terrifying things going on
in the world that would make anyone just get in
bed and never get out ever again. But he transforms

(28:06):
the experience by finding his voice, by being the one
who makes this speech. And in a way, obviously, I
know we lose Canaan and his worst fears come true
to a certain extent, but I feel like in that moment,
it's almost like when therapists tell you to go back
to that time and reimagine it or whatever, that there
is something very magical that does indeed happen with him

(28:27):
doing exactly what his parents wants did, which is speaking
truth to power and helping people that it was more
important to give people hope and unify them than it
was to live at the affect of his trauma.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, that end sequence was really I mean not just emotional,
but like inspiring, especially again without getting into specifics with
like kind of the climate that we're living in. I
don't mean, I mean sure, I also mean climate that
like sort of a sociopolo appliment that we're living in.

(29:04):
You know, this idea of like personal sacrifice for the
greater good, uh is really inspirational. And uh Ezra's speech
and just the imagery juxtaposed it was like got me good.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
Yeah. And and like the communications tower, making that such
a sort of central attack point for multiple sides of
this sort of war is very apropos interesting. Yeah, I'm
attacking it and taking it over all of that it's

(29:39):
I mean, yeah, they touched on.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
It, and it's so interesting. Sorry, now I'm like, stop
me before I get to go down this. But and
maybe this is I don't want to jump ahead to
the next episode, but I think maybe this is touched
on in the next episode. But it's like the the
empire is who destroyed the communications tower, but then to

(30:05):
the public eye they are led to believe or allowed
to believe or encouraged to believe that the rebel cell
is the one that was responsible for destroying the South
the communications tower. How interesting that like propaganda and you
know what what we what they want us to know

(30:29):
or believe, and how easy it is for that information
to be proliferated.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
You know, great commentary on the power of media and
how they can work both ways totally and how false
information and this is out there, like false information travels
exponentially faster than actual information, you know, actual factual stuff.
We know this, it's out there. This isn't groundbreaking news.
But this was such a great and it was such
a great way to put that on its head with

(30:56):
one as was message getting out through the citizens where
it's it gave them permission to have hope. Where the
reason why the rebels are such heroes is they didn't
wait for permission, like we're gonna take this upon ourselves,
because if we wait for someone to give us permission
to be rebels, we would never been rebels. And that's
why that's the difference maker. But you being that catalyst
with others, and that's going to spark something in them

(31:18):
to say, oh yeah, like we can do this this
is something that's innate. This is something we just got awaken.
And when I hear Ezra's lineup, do you think anybody heard?
Which is a valid worry. It reminded me of that
whole conundrum of if a tree falls in the woods
and nobody's around, doesn't make a noise, and the general answers, well, no,
because no one's around, sound can't exist. And my whole

(31:41):
take on that was always and I remember I brought
this up in like philosophy classes, what about what the
tree thinks?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Preside? What do you mean?

Speaker 5 (31:48):
I'm like, well, if I'm that tree, and I felt,
I know I made a noise. I don't care if
other people around, like I know I made a noise. Yeah,
you can't say that the noise didn't exist. And I
felt like that was ultimately a lesson that was going
to get to Azra. It's like, hey, you got to
say what you got to say. Whoever hears it, here's it,
but you got to make sure it starts here, and
then whoever jumps on jumps on. So it's a lot

(32:08):
of powerful messages.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
And that's the whole Cartesian George Berkeley philosophical thing is
dick Cart said I think therefore I am, so he exists,
and then George Berkeley came along one hundred years later
and said, I am perceived, therefore exists. Mean it's not perceived.
You could say I'm the kindest person in the world,
but you could be like, he's not. Then I'm not.
No matter, Okay, a look, chill.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
That was unintentional.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
But but yeah, it's that whole thing, and the fact
that it is brought up in this type of story
is so cool. But I had an issue with Mandalorian here.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
This is it?

Speaker 4 (32:56):
No, this would be in I'm sure it's an other
things when they're hiding Canaan, Ezra and Sabine flip the
thing down because like, if I was wearing a hat
and I was hiding with you guys over an edge,
I would take my hat off and I'm like, yo,
she brings it down to look through it, flip it
all the way back because it's sticking up, like literally

(33:19):
saying look here. And I'm like, do all Mandalorians do
you like a tactical, amazing, amazing tactician. I'm like, come
on that one, fell I want.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
To defend myself or defend Sabine, But I don't really
have a good defense there Is it serving a function
by being up like that? Is there some other jaz
Is there some justification for this?

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Can you help me out? It's right here. I'm just saying,
like my student, like, does it need to maybe it
needs to pick stuff up, That's what.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
I'm saying, Like, maybe it's tell me when it flips down,
and she's like in the scene, looks through it. It's working,
so clearly it works when.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
It's maybe there's a solar panel on the under side.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
So when it's not, George.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
Don't charge you while we're about to get killed.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
I'm going to need your help, okay, because I don't
have any I got nothing right now.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
It's not on you, it's on you. I'm just like
through all Mandalorians, I think it's yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Fair question. I don't like it, but it's a fair question.
Also not to put you on blast. Not put you
on blast. But I thought that your your performance was
really wonderful at the end when you're delivering the message
to the masses, and it's like it's so perfectly it's

(34:46):
perfectly Ezra and it's perfectly tailor, which I guess we've
come to, you know, those are kind of one and
the same, but like it's not heavy handed.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's not like Sacharine and.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Overly sort of like pushing, you know, kind of beating
us over the head.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
With a hammer.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
It's just like it's so perfectly Ezra, but it's really
also like deeply emotional.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
That was I said a.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
Nice thank you, thank you, thank you. I thought there
was a butt coming back. No, that was thank you. Yeah.
I enjoyed it. I thought it was really cool, and
they was really good about that with us, like allowing
because that's my own personal thing. I love a message
more than anything you guys have. But I also think
the way you say it is so important. I think

(35:31):
a lot of messages are lost nowadays all the time.
Even some of my friends. I'm like, oh, I get
what you're getting at, but like, yeah, okay, cool, it's
so poignant to you, isn't it. Like we can also
how it is delivered matters. But then there's also the
thing which I probably run sometimes where it's you're almost
too Cavali with non shalant. But I'm like, well, no,
listen to what's being said. But my mom growing up

(35:53):
us to always be like, yeah, but it's how you're
saying it. Well.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
Also, the other thing is it sounds like, because Ezra
is an old soul and a tailor, I always felt
that you were an old soul as well. It sounds
like something a fourteen year old who is an old
soul would say. Where sometimes and a lot of these
show sometimes you'll get shows where whether it's a teen
drama or whatever, they're giving them this really sophisticated dialogue.
And not that Ezra's not not that as in cable

(36:19):
having sophisticated dialogue, but it was sophisticated. But it wasn't
like he wasn't trying to use big sat words or anything.
It was just very sincere and truthful. And what really
came from Ezra some of the brain of a fourteen
year old who had to grow up very very fast,
who was also growing up in this episode, like literally
like he went from somebody's like whatever, I'll steal yogan fruit,

(36:40):
I don't care to really caring about tomorrow, which I
don't think that was a priority for Ezra before. And
I just love that talk with Jim Canaan and Ezra
so much. It reminded me of like Rocky three, Like Rocky.
There's this part in Rocky three where Rocky's talking to
Adrian because he doesn't want to fight Clever Lang. He's like,
look at it. Before, when I was a fighter, I

(37:00):
didn't have a family, I didn't have all this, and
now I'm scared of losing it. So I'm afraid of
losing and where. And then the flip side of that
is Canaan's talking about sacrifice not letting the fear of
failure get to you, which again we've talked about life
lessons on rebels, that's a great one. But when he says,
I didn't understand it what my master told me, but
I think I understand now, and I felt like that's

(37:21):
something we can all take with us as kids. At
least when I was a kid, I assumed every adult
had all the answers. I assume my teacher knew everything.
It's only when you get older you realize adults are
trying to figure stuff out like anybody else. You realize
teachers are trying to figure it out, and parents there's
no you know, they're trying to figure it out. There's
no instruction manual. Oh yeah, this is step one, step

(37:41):
two and that's so powerful right there.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
But he doesn't say it like that.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
He's like, I understand it now, And you realize Ezra's
going to understand it too, and it probably has to
get there quicker because he's growing up very fast.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I forgot I had wrote this down that you, Ezra,
without any bidding from Canaan, your Jedi master whatever, that
you immediately keyed into the loft cat. And that to
me was much like we lose Canaan later. You have
a whole thing with Pergols like whatever. That connection that

(38:15):
you have with animals is is profound and a life
saver for all of us. And this, I mean, you've
connected with animals before, but this in particular, to me,
was foreshadowing where your character is going in terms of
how you use the force to have other animals come right. Well,
didn't I guess that happened with the myn ox as well. Yeah,

(38:38):
I just like, yeah, exactly, A fur knocks, that's it. Sorry, Yeah,
I need more coffee.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
But we all need we need a coffee sponsor. So
if anyone's out there, let's go. We'll gladly do all
the ad reads for you.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, but I thought that was another cool example of
where your character is heading, and it was adorable.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Yeah, the nature versus using nature against uh the Empire?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, Jedi doctor Doolittle.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
I mean I've got another hot take. I've got it.

Speaker 5 (39:18):
Let's do it, not take and then I think we
can take that right into jac So I think that may.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Feeling take brought.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
To you by coffee sponsor here. So just let let
you all know.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Why do we all understand Chopper? And Chopper understands all
of us and we all speak English, but then won't
speak English for the sake of Is it like, why
won't the droid speak English so that everyone else can
understand watching the show? But we understand him and he

(39:52):
understands us. We're speaking in English to.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Him, But not everybody understands Chopper?

Speaker 4 (39:58):
Right, it seems like it.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
No, Sorry, I don't mean every member of the Ghost
Crew understands Chopper?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Does Zeb?

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Does Zeb always understand.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
That bicker back and forth? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Okay, true, But don't other people that are not part
of the Ghost Crew not understand? Aren't there times I
might be wrong? But aren't there times where someone's like,
what did he say? Or they don't understand. But you
know one of us is like, oh, he doesn't like
your you know, doesn't like the cut of your GiB or.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Whatever, Like, how do I understand a draw like I've
I've never been in space, I don't know anything. How
do I understand destroyed? And it's like, we have the
technology to build lightsabers, have transports move without wheels. We
can't have him speak English.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
You you might oh, you're here's the things.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Off a lot of Star Wars. Fancy that's I mean
same with artis. I'm like, dude, I was just gonna
understand English. You understand English? Why not? We have the
craziest technology in the galaxy. You could translate that for fans.
I think it's story.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
What you're saying is you think everyone should speak English?

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Is that what I'm well, you said, no.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Like aqualition all that I understand that to be if
we were speaking to him in Droid, that I would
be like fair, But we're saying it in English, and
then he's it'd be like if we were going back
and forth in two different languages, but we're understanding each other.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
It's like having a pet, right Like I was just
gonna my pet and yeah, but I call it.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Look, here's the thing. R two D two establish this
as a thing, and we can get the sense all
he's bummed out, you know, or whatever it is. I
couldn't possibly Why doesn't anyone tell me anything?

Speaker 8 (41:53):
You know?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
C three po with this incessant chatter. But Dave always
said that R two was a dog and Chopper is
a cat, and so your cat is like like, you
don't know exactly which nouns and verbs were expressed with that,
but you get you get the But I understand what
you're saying. But I think we we forgive all that

(42:14):
because of what has been established with R two as
a dog. That you know, when Benji barks, like, we
get that the kid is in the well and needs
to be rescued. Now did he actually say that?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
No?

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Do we respond to Benji?

Speaker 4 (42:27):
No?

Speaker 6 (42:28):
You know, we don't.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
We don't speak dog, but we managed to communicate with
feelings conveyed as opposed to.

Speaker 6 (42:36):
I like you.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
I like you. But C three po is speaking English
completely fine, and R two could I know I'm gonna
piss some people up, But no, we don't give like
I get it with dogs. I have a dog, and
I'm like my dog understands everything I'm saying. I person
understand what my dog's barking, like, yeah, it's our cat
out the window, whatever it was. But I wouldn't give

(42:58):
my dog war missions and be like, go do this
and this and this and believe that they're going to
follow it. Where we tell Chopper I have a whole
plan that I don't tell Harah, and I'm like, Chopper,
you're going to do this and this. That's not like, oh,
like a little bit of communication. We're full on. While
I was watching, I was like, what he understands all
of this, then just say, okay back to me, JC,

(43:21):
we need you.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, flag on the field. JC.

Speaker 5 (43:27):
It's like in Grandma's when Billy has the Maguay. He's
not going to speak magway back to him. And since
we've been very philosophical this episode, all I'll leave it
on this note and then Taylor, you have a rebuttal
by all means, and then we can lead into fact check.
You know, the thing the old man told Billy, He's like,
you know, in order to understand, one only has to listen.
And you know, when you really think about that, it's

(43:47):
like language. You know it transcends verbal speech because we
have asl we have all these So I just think, look,
when Gizmo talked to Billy, Billy knew what he was
saying and he could say back to Gizmo, Gizmo understood.
I think that's just enough. But with that said, I
think let's just go to fact check to JC and
he can clear everything up and tell us all that

(44:07):
we're wrong and we can have off so.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Check.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
All right, we give you a lot.

Speaker 6 (44:15):
Here we go, buckle up.

Speaker 8 (44:18):
So also, to start this out, there was a whole
lot of conversation going that I was trying to type
notes in for so if I don't cover something, please
let's have a conversation back and forth, particularly about the
nature of Jedi. But before we get there, at one point, Taylor,
you mentioned Grand mov Tarkan's hierarchy in the Empire. Tarkan

(44:40):
was the first Grand Moth. Moth is kind of like
a governor of a planet or a system. He was
the first grand Moth. He saw all the outer Rim territories,
and then when he took over the Death Star project
from Krenick, which we saw in Rogue one, that kind
of made him the de facto third in charge of
the empire behind the Emperor and Darth Vader also, and

(45:06):
I could be wrong, and this may have been decanonized,
but there was in the time of like rebels and
a new hope, Darth Vader wasn't like a big public figure.
He was kind of like you know that like Cia
Operative that maybe people have heard about, But he wasn't

(45:27):
like the face of the empire the way that Palpatine
was in things. He was kind of a shadow figure
for a long time. Now they may have decanonized that,
but that was the vibe originally, So that might explain
some of kind of like Tarkan's like rise there. He's ambitious,

(45:48):
he's working his way up at this point in the timeline.

Speaker 6 (45:52):
The lighting and rebels.

Speaker 8 (45:53):
You guys talked about the lighting and rebels, and Taylor particularly,
you were like, oh my gosh, I remember in season
three for it was so dynamic. Part of the reason
for that, I believe I've heard Joel Aaron talk about
this is when you're starting a show and there's only
so much money. You are building the Ezra model, you

(46:13):
are building the Lothal terrain and things like that, and
then by season two you get another chunk of money,
you can make those things better because you're not scratch
building everything. And so what I think you see throughout
Clone Wars and then again throughout Rebels Rebels is kind
of wiping the slate clean. We're only thirteen episodes into

(46:37):
the production of this. By the time we hit episode fifty,
they've been able to devote so many more financial resources
to the lighting and the texturing and all of those
sorts of things, which is why you see animation grow
season by season. Okay, the Jedi, this is fourteen years approximately,

(46:59):
is John said after Order sixty six, And what you
have here is a decade plus of rewriting history. And
one of the things that somebody brought up at some
point is that there's no paper in Star Wars. Right
up until the last Jedi, there's no paper. So if

(47:21):
there's nothing that is physically written down in Star Wars,
history disappears very easily, and things are able to be
changed very easily. You can't go to a textbook that
was written in you know, zero BC, you know, at
the as time begins, and reference it and see how

(47:45):
it's been reinterpreted over time. There is no paper, So
if the Empire controls everything, the hole in it and everything.
You have fourteen years of misinformation, You have fourteen years
of saying, yeah, you all thought that Jedi was this,
but it wasn't. It was all magic tricks. They weren't real.

Speaker 6 (48:04):
It was it was a cult.

Speaker 8 (48:06):
It wasn't a thing they were you know, they were
putting out things like Ghostbusters, right and Walter Peck like
this is a light show. Their ghosts don't actually exist.
So the Empire has waged a war against history from
the moment they took over, which is why you have

(48:26):
all of these people who are who doubt the existence
of the Jedi. Think about Han Solo, like Jedi whatever,
and Han was alive when the Jedi were going. He
was a young young boy, you know. And if you
want to contextualize it with you know today, I mean,
but like, look at the way people feel about vat

(48:47):
scenes today ten fifteen years on. You know, look at
the way that people trust in institutions today versus twenty
years ago. And when you look at at at things
like that Holocaust deniers right where you're like, wow, my god,
in nineteen sixty nobody would deny that. But now, thanks

(49:11):
to YouTube, and things like that. It grows and spreads.

Speaker 6 (49:16):
And so.

Speaker 8 (49:18):
Why do people not believe that the Jedi was a thing.
Well because for fifteen years, for a generation, they've been
told that their memories are wrong, and they start to
believe it.

Speaker 6 (49:34):
Let's see Jedi versus Sith.

Speaker 8 (49:39):
People are continually born who have Metichlorians who have the
sensitivity to tap into the force. But you need to
be taught how to access the force. There are millions
of people throughout the galaxy who have that ability. And
as Vanessa touched on, if you don't have somebody who
can go in and teach you how to harness that ability,

(50:03):
you're not going to be able to lift things with
your mind or flypod racers or things like that the
way you should. Okay, Taylor's raising his hand.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Question from the back of the class, But then, chicken
or the egg? How did the first Jedi without a teacher?
Who was that?

Speaker 8 (50:22):
Well, it would be somebody, It would be a philosopher, right,
it would be somebody like Vanessa mentioned. Akdo Right. Akdo
is a relatively new martial art that was developed in
the twentieth century. And where did he how did he
develop that? How did the person who developed taekwondo or kendo. Right,
this is somebody who has or Bruce Lee even who

(50:42):
developed his own martial arts system. It's that sort of
a thing.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
Technically, g Kundo isn't a martial art. It's a philosophy.
Just want to make sure because I'm friends of the
Lee family, Just want to make sure that's cleared up.

Speaker 8 (50:53):
Plays into plays into even more what I'm saying right
where philosophically you fall into this mindset and you start
to discover physical abilities. As your mind changes, is the
way you approach the world changes, you start to discover things.
I've read a lot of books on akdo and there
are anecdotally you know, he fought in the war and

(51:16):
they were saying that he could almost dodge bullets, the
founder of a kedo just based on his mindset and
the way he saw the world, which again it's anecdotal,
and perhaps it's you know, meant to convey a bigger
picture and it's not to be taken literally. But you know,

(51:38):
the note I made is that somebody who has forced
sensitivity is like a giant slab of marble, and you
need somebody to come in with a chisel and hammer
it out and refine it until you get Michelangelo's David
or the Trevy Fountain or.

Speaker 6 (51:53):
One of these great works of art. That a jedi is.

Speaker 8 (51:58):
So Yeah, of course, there's tons of people who have
the ability to use the force, but nobody knows how
to do it. The other way you could look at
it is like an athlete, right, Like an athlete is
born with talent, like Lebron James Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant

(52:18):
may have been the most talented basketball player, but he
also works so hard to refine that talent to come
up in big moments, all of those things. And that's
what Jedi training is. Jedi training is the practice. Jedi
training is learning how to, how to and when to
take the jump shot versus drive to the who, versus
past to your your teammate. The word jedi, I think

(52:42):
there's a definition here, the way that I define jedi.
And perhaps it could be wrong, but I believe that
jedi is like being knighted, like a night of the
round Table. It doesn't mean ability to use the force.

Speaker 6 (52:59):
You know, a Jedi is an earned title. Midichlorians.

Speaker 8 (53:04):
Controversially, I thought Mediclorians was a cool concept. The reason
I thought it was and everybody said, oh, it makes
it scientific instead of faith based or whatever. I thought
it was cool because all it is saying is the
potential to access that energy. Again, like a basketball player,
somebody may be born who has significantly more talent on

(53:29):
a football field or to hit a baseball than somebody else.
That doesn't mean they're going to be the greatest player
in that arena. It just means that their potential is higher.
And I always thought that that's what midichlorians was is
it was something that is in your blood that allows
you to rise to that occasion. And everybody has mediclorians,

(53:52):
right obi Wan Kenobi talks about it's an energy field
life creates, it makes it grow.

Speaker 6 (53:57):
That was Yoda. Sorry misquoted obi Wan.

Speaker 8 (53:59):
But but everybody has it. But it's your ability to
tap into that energy field is your midichlorian count. So
I don't think from a certain point of view, it
actually changed the nature of the forest in any way.
It just gave us an avenue to understand why Obi
Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker could move things with their

(54:20):
mind and Hans so looka not.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Tiya Hi, thanks for taking the question.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
So all of that is fascinating, But my question for
you is if the title Jedi is bestowed upon someone
the same way that being knighted, you know, by his
or her majesty, the queen or the king, then does
that mean that If to go back to what Vanessa

(54:50):
said earlier, if Canaan never made it to twelfth grade,
he because in tenth grade his master died, and then
and then Ezra is being trained by a Jedi that
didn't finish Jedi school, then are either of them legitimate Jedis?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Were they united?

Speaker 6 (55:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (55:15):
They touch on it in one of the tales from
Tales of the Jedi. I think they touch on Canaan's origin.
I don't know if you ever took the trials, but
if you don't take the trials, you are technically not
considered a Jedi. You're a padawan, right, that's the Patawan word.
So Ezra would be a Padawan, Ezra would not be

(55:37):
a Jedi. Now it gets a little murkhy because there
are no Jedi to give Luke Skywalker the Jedi Trials,
and so Yoda just kind of invents the trial for Loop,
which is Yoda and obi Wan just kind of say, oh,
you got to go kill your dad. That's your trial.
That's your trial.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
Right.

Speaker 6 (55:58):
If you pass it, you're a Jedi, which.

Speaker 8 (56:00):
Is so kind of manipulative because they're just going out
like they don't see Vader the way that Luke sees
Vader because it's his dad. And like again Vanessa was
saying about Jedi vers Sith, Luke shows up. He betrays
his masters, which is what makes Luke so great. The

(56:21):
only people in the galaxy who can tell Luke what
to do and how to become the thing he yearns
to become. He turns his back on them, says I
know better, throws his lightsaber away, and faces the consequences
because you know, a Jedi shall not know. Love is
something that was taught in the Old Republic. But love

(56:45):
is what ultimately saves the galaxy. So I think when
you're looking at the prequels and what George was saying
with the prequels and about the Jedi is that they
were misguided, right. Love is the thing that brings it
all together.

Speaker 6 (56:59):
Love.

Speaker 8 (57:00):
Love is the thing that and there's also an interesting
conversation to be had here, and I'm talking so much
about Anakin's quote unquote love for Padme versus Luke's love
for Anakin. In that Anakin didn't you could it could
be argued that Anakin did not love Padme. He was

(57:20):
obsessed with Padme and that's why he fell to the
dark side, versus Luke's love for his father is what
brought him back. Speaking about love and luck and Obi
Wan again, obi Wan says to Han Solo famous famously,
in my experience, there's no such thing as luck. Luck
in the galaxy could also be seen as a subconscious

(57:43):
ability to manipulate the odds using the force, right, So
is Sabine and again we find out later in Ahsoka
and Things. Is she just the best shot, the least
likely to get hit, the most tactical all of these things,
or is subconsciously she tapping into something more like Anakin
did when.

Speaker 6 (58:01):
He was racing pod pods. He's the only one who
can do it right.

Speaker 8 (58:05):
So I think that there's an interesting discussion there even
further about people who are able to subtly access the
force who have not received any training and the way
that the galaxy perceives it after indoctrination. After wiping the
slate clean, and seeing it as luck when it's really
not going into medichlorians even more and are people born

(58:26):
with it and how does that all work. Something that
they explored really interestingly in Bad Batch and The Mandalorian
and even further into Rise of Skywalker is the idea
of midichlorians and m count which is what they call
it now because people have such a reaction to medichlorians

(58:47):
is cloning and the Bad Batch. If you watch Bad
Batch and you look at Omega, the whole show is
about them trying to access omega Is blood as a
clone because they had force abilities, they had a high
Medichlorian count, and you're also seeing you see that in

(59:10):
The Mandalorian with Grogu and how they're trying to pay
a very high price to get access to his blood,
which I think will eventually lead to, you know, where
they will tie that in and probably in the Mandalorian
Grogu movie that's coming out next summer is Snoke as

(59:31):
a failed clone of Palpatine and then Palpatine finally in
the Rise of Skywalker, them mastering the ability to clone
somebody and have that clone have the same Midichlorian count
as the person who who they're trying to clone, repeatability

(59:53):
in generating in generating.

Speaker 6 (59:57):
A Force user.

Speaker 8 (59:58):
Essentially, that's speculation, but I think that they've laid a
pretty strong roadmap to that.

Speaker 6 (01:00:04):
Have I lost all of you?

Speaker 8 (01:00:06):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Okay, I'm yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:00:09):
I mean Taylor, you were talking about can a Mandalorian
be a Jedi. Mandalorian are a group of people. It's
a race right up until you hear the line of
the Mandalorian. Mandalarian isn't a race, it's a creed. But
even if it's a creed, you could still be a
Mandalorian Jedi. And I don't think anything in the Mandalorian
creed says that you would have to violate the Jedi

(01:00:32):
rules you know, of killing and things like that. The
difference between a Jedi and a Sith also is just
the pathways they use to harness the energy of the force. Right. Anger, fear, aggression,
hate are powerful emotions in sports, in anything you do.
But if you go down that path, you lose. You

(01:00:52):
don't have a clear head and you make decisions that
you otherwise wouldn't make. The Jedi path is one of
surround nity and peace to access the same things. You know,
it's perspective all right through that. The origins of the
probe droid voice, which John touched on at the very

(01:01:13):
beginning of the episode, that came from a shortwave recording
of a Ham radio that belonged to Ben Bert's grandfather.
Ben Bert's quote on it was I mixed it with
some outtakes of weird transmission noises I'd created for the
warning signal that beckons the spaceship Nostromo to a ghostly

(01:01:34):
planet in the movie Alien, which also, if you look
at the ghost is very Nostromo like in design in
Star Wars Rebels, so it all ties together right there.
He also mixed in the voice of a well known
Shakespearean actor who he's never revealed, and transformed that electronically.

(01:01:56):
I'm going to go a little bit into Ezra and
the Lothcat because I thought this was super cool in
nineteen ninety four. I've talked about a lot the Jedi
Academy Trilogy books by Kevin J.

Speaker 6 (01:02:06):
Anderson.

Speaker 8 (01:02:07):
In those books, they establish a different Jedi, have different
sensitivities to different parts of the Force, and I think
it's really cool that they repeatedly show Ezra in tune
with animals, with the loft cats, with the Pergols, and
with the and I'm spacing on the name the non
Minox who we talked about earlier fur Knox as well.

Speaker 6 (01:02:31):
I think it's really cool.

Speaker 8 (01:02:33):
As Ahsoka says in Star Wars Rebels, there's always a
bit of truth in Legends, and I think it's cool
that they're bringing in some of those concepts that were
developed in Legends into the show as early as the
first season. Defending Tia now, because I feel like I've
always I'm always taking Taylor's side on things like jet

(01:02:53):
packs and lightsabers to defend Tia. The ipiece doesn't flip
to the back of the helmet. That is a ninety
degree thing, so it's up or it's down.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Keep it out, I have to see.

Speaker 8 (01:03:08):
And also not all Mando Mandalorian helmets have it right.
The Mando the dinger and helmet does not have the
eyepiece that comes down, So that's an.

Speaker 6 (01:03:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:03:23):
And I believe it's something it's like targeting, you know,
it's like, you know, helps her see zone in on
those things.

Speaker 6 (01:03:33):
Shopper.

Speaker 8 (01:03:34):
There's a big debate about Chopper here and why doesn't
Chopper just speak English? And why doesn't R two just
speak English? This is a use case. Chopper isn't designed
as a robot to do the things he's being asked
to do. R two D two is not designed to
do the things he's being asked to do. They are

(01:03:55):
droids that are there's, they're mechanics, They're meant to help
the ship go to hyperspace. They're not meant to do
all of these things. And again, in old legend, which
I'll continue to bring up because I love it, the
idea was that R two D two and C three
po never had their memories erased, and the longer a
robot goes without having its memory erased, the more human

(01:04:19):
and the more abilities it will have. And so R
two D two, who has never had its memory erase
from the time it was by a New Hope and
Return of the Jedi, has become more human than say
just an R five unit that randomly gets plugged into
an X wing and has its memory erase constantly. I

(01:04:41):
think that's also the case with Chopper, is that Harah
has had Chopper for a long time. Hara values Chopper's companionship.
Chopper has a specter number is obviously part of the
family is obviously part of the crew. So the argument
I don't think is why doesn't Chopper speak English? The
argument would be, why doesn't Harra just install a voice

(01:05:04):
box on it so that Chopper speaks English? But as
you guys said, you guys all understand Chopper anyway, So
why spend the time and resources to install another add
on to Chopper when Harrah's communicates with Chopper perfectly fine
as is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
It's a down economy, so you know you can't.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
Yeah, I guess. I'm like, how does how do we
understand him?

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
But you just do well? And maybe people maybe it's
also a stone how about that?

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Well, that's how language works in the first place, right,
how did you start understanding English?

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Yeah? But that's what I'm saying, Like, didn't I like,
on the Thal I was speaking with Freids. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:05:43):
But what jac just said, it's it was like the
reverse of what obi Wan said about Vader. It's like, well,
they're more men now in the machine. What you say
there you go?

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Yeah, but others may not. Others may not understand Chopper,
And maybe Harah doesn't want him to speak English because
pressure situations, we are the only ones that will understand him.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
That's it' That's like when Kobe spoke Spanish the Palcasol,
so nobody knew what play they were running, so there
we go.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
And Ricky Rubio, well it didn't matter anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
So I mean, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Taylor's question is like, he hasn't been part of the
crew for that long, and how does he understand choppers
want Want want, like as easily as you do?

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Or Canaan does.

Speaker 8 (01:06:26):
That sounds like a question for Pablo Hidelgo. That sounds
like a comic book spinof.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
You know, Bide the Way JC M v P.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Yeah, well done good.

Speaker 6 (01:06:39):
I just spin that out as fast as I could.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
It was most impressive as it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:45):
But we always feel much smarter, jac once we get
to this part of the show. So it's like, oh,
like we get the payoff, we get the little education here,
and it's just it's always a fun conversation. Today's especially
was a very fun conversation. And who knows maybe that
that spinofful show that all this time as it was
on Rosetta Stone in his room when nobody was looking,
and that's how he learned everything. We never know and

(01:07:05):
Jason can fact check that Thank you as always everybody.
Thank you for everybody listening. Rate subscribe Potter Rebellion Podcast
at gmail dot com. Write to us. That's your question,
sen's your fan art. As you can see like, we
love to answer your questions. We love to showcase your
artwork on the Instagram and follow us on Instagram at
Potter Rebellion. But until then, next week we're gonna go
over Season one episode fourteen, Rebel Resolved, the penultimate episode

(01:07:28):
of season one of Star Wars Rebels. But until then,
I'm gonna channel Hair and go Taylor, get us out
of here here.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
The music.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcast Producing,
hosted by Vanessa Marshall, Tia Surkar, Tayla Gray, and John
Lee Brody Executive producer and in house Star Wars guru
Slash factchecker J C.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Reifenberg.

Speaker 5 (01:07:51):
Our music was composed by Mikey Flash. Our cover art
was created by Neil Fraser of Neil Fraser Designs. Special
thanks to Hally Free and Aaron Kauffman over at iheartra
ascor At William Morris Endeavor, Trasa Canobio, George Lucas for
creating this universe we.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Love so much, and of course all of our amazing listeners.

Speaker 5 (01:08:07):
Follow us on Instagram at Potter Rebellion and email us
at Potter Rebellion Podcasts at gmail dot com