"Vision of Hope" (S1E12)

From Ezra needing to embrace the 'power of now' like Ekhart Tolle to the sad realization to never meeting your heroes to Hera showing more punching power than Mike Tyson to the important reminder to never lose hope; this episode was jam packed and so was the discussion around it!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, I remember Simon Kinberg saying like he had us, well,
at least he had me watch different movies about civil
movements and how they began with two people meeting in
a room. Who are those two people? Well, maybe Ahsoka
and Harrow.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hey, guys, what's up? You're listening to Potter Rebellion? Thank
you for coming. I'm Taylor Gray, Ezra Ridger Specter six,
and with me is Hey.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm Vanessa Marshall Spector one, voice of Harrison Doula, and
we also have Hi.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
I'm t sur Car Spector five, Sabine Wren and.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
And I am john Ley Brody. You're a nonspector but
full on moderator. And today we are going over season one,
episode twelve, Vision of Hope. Let's begin. All right, everybody,
how are we feeling? We are twelve episodes in, we
are almost at the end of season one of Star
Wars Rebels, and things are really ramping up. This is
a great, great episode in terms of action, in terms

(01:06):
of like character building, character layering on gravity more than
mister of Ezra uh. But also how are we all doing? Personally?
I missed you all. We we scatter our recording dates
so it's like, I don't get that it seems like
we see each other all the time, but we don't
see each other all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
I'm happy to see you guys. I was just thinking,
we're having such a good time doing this. I am
maybe I shouldn't speak for all of us, but I'm
heavy really give kind of a look.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
But I think that that's just I appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
I was just a little confused. It's BENI second the intro.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I don't know what I just said, So I hope
that I said the name of the podcast correctly the
right things. But I am having a lot of fun,
is U. This is a gift that sort of keeps
on giving. I just love hanging out with you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, same, Captain Vanessa. How are you feeling today.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
All as well? I'm thrilled. I'm so happy that the
podcast is being received well and I just could not
be more excited about it. And it's a bit of
a dream come true. So if I had a mullet,
you might know the level of joy internally, because that's
the only thing that could externally express the level of

(02:14):
joy to feel. No nothing.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Well season two goals, I guess is we can shoot
for with us some hopefully I'll hold out hope for that.
All right, So let's get into this episode because I
think there's a lot to discuss. It's time for my recap.
This one was a fun one to put together, so everybody.
Vision of Hope Original air date January twenty sixth, twenty fifteen.
Ezra is in the midst of a lightsaber training session,
but much of the canans frustration. The young padawan is

(02:40):
distracted and unable to channel his inner eck Art Toll
and embrace the power of now. The training continues, but
Ezra's thrown off when he starts having a mysterious, lucid
vision of the possible future.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
When Ezra tries to express this to the group, he's
treated more like a Sandra from Greek mythology as opposed
to its own prophetic Hera then calls everyone back to
the Ghost to tune into Senator Travis's latest Galactic Pirate
radio transmission. His decoding worthy message seemed to translate to
an invite for any rebels on the Fall to join
the rebel sympathizer at a secret meeting at the Old
Republic Building. Kingen is skeptical and worried the Empire may

(03:10):
have also been able to decode the message, which makes
Ezra think, so, you're telling me there's a chance to
keep their bases covered, as It gets intel from his
buddy's there from the Imperial Academy, who tells them that
Callous and the Empire do indeed have a concept of
a plan that involves the old Senate Building. As it
puts two and two together that and relays the message
back to the Ghost Crew, and this brings them into action.
The Ghost Creuse stakes out the Senate Building and sees

(03:32):
that it's guarded by Imperial troops, which leads to them
getting their goonies on by venturing through the sewers in
order to get inside. But upon arrival, the crew finds
that it's more than just the Senator waiting for them.
Callous and Imperial troopers are also there and ready for
a fight. A shootout ensues and a daring escape follows,
and just when it seems like they may have been
in the clear, it is revealed that Travis is not
part of the rebel alliance, but he is a trader.

(03:52):
Upon this revelation, Ezra is naturally shocked and like the
lyrics of a two thousand Battery Boys song, he wants
Travis to tell him why what. Instead of getting answers,
Trey has the gall to throw insults at Ezra regarding
his parents, but in response to Travis's treachery, Hara throws
a punch that rocks in more than a nineteen seventy
seven Queen song, It Goest Crew manages the once again
elude the Empire, and upon arriving back of the Ghost,

(04:12):
it's clear Ezra feels deflated from the latest experience, but
Hara offers encouraging words worthy of a Rocky Bibulo movie
and reminds Ezra that, like Bo Brady on Days of
Our Lives, he should do his best to never lose hope.
And that is the recaps one episode twelfth Vision of Hope?

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Was that the best one yet? I don't know. I
think they're all the best one.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
I'm always trying to one out myself.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
Your pull from so many things, It's incredible.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Our Lives was a deep pull.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
John the Eckhart toy and the and the and the
Greek mythology. I was already completely like just delighted, and
then you hit me with Bo and Hoe from Days.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
Of our Lives. Come on, let's go. I mean we
we all grew up with. I mean, those are my
sick days from school prices already days of our lies?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Right. I have no idea who that is.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
You You've missed out on a iconic couple in American
television and just like the Zeitgeist. But wow, that was
really hats off to you, John.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
That was next cleberation. Well, it's like I've set the
bar and then I want to keep like surpassing that.
I don't want to let you all down.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
More than anything, I don't think you could if you tried.
I try, I mean doing what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
I love the Yoda like adviser. There is no try
right there. I just got to do it. So what
are the initial thoughts after seeing this episode? Everybody?

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I well, sorry, I don't know if I just jumped
in too quick there, but I had kind of forgotten
about this episode if I'm being honest, and I you know,
not to be not to get too specific, and we
don't have to talk about like socio politics, but watching
this episode right now, with whatever is happening in the world,

(06:04):
you can take up for what you want. But man,
it like hit me right in the fields, like citizens
having hope and doing everything that they can to fight
for their freedom. I mean, like how inspiring and moving
especially right now. It just I was I'm almost glad

(06:25):
I had kind of forgotten about this episode because it
was like a fresh almost like a fresh watch watch
for me, and I found it really moving.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I think gol Travis is a punk. I mean
I then was like googling, like who is this deal?
That was ridiculous. But I loved Harah coming in because
I clogging in this yeah, and also just like duping him.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
He's such a smug like yeah, I use some other words,
but yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah it was. First of all, there were some really
key moments that I loved, and Ezra's eye roll at
the beginning, you know when Caanaan tells you to stay
in and you're.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
Like, yeah, I practiced a lot.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
It was.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
It was an epic work. And then also Caanaan returns
it with another eye roll that that was brilliant, and uh,
my favorite line you know what I smell like.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
I might I wrote it down because I liked it.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
It's it's so awesome. No, And like I remember I
know what you smell like, I'll find you. I mean,
it was just like a callback and the whole thing
was absolutely brilliant. But I didn't realize. When we go
to conventions, a lot of people ask me to write
on the hair pops we have hope, hope that things
can get better and they will. And I was like,

(07:41):
which episode is that from? I can't remember, And of
course it's the last line of this episode. And it's
funny because when people ask me, you can you can
you say the line? I don't say it now the
way I said it then, which I found interesting. She says,
we have hope, hope that things can get better and

(08:03):
they will. And now that to me sounds like really optimistic,
and I don't know if it's what's going on in
the world currently. When I do it now, it's like
my heart is full of so much, so much more
than hey, dude, we have hope. That's how it is, guys.
That to me, that's how it sounded. And when I've

(08:25):
done it since then, I've it's had more gravity, is
what I'm trying to say. I don't know if that's,
you know, because of social issues or I don't know,
but I loved how naive Harra sounded in a way,
but I also took a lot of strength from that
that it is best to be that light and hopeful

(08:48):
about it, otherwise you can't let it eat you alive.
But yeah, I love the teamwork. I also thought Chopper
did a great job of you know, I mean when
he throws that that other droid down the sewers, shoot,
I'm like this guy, yeah he was. He was pretty

(09:08):
intense this episode.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
I thought he like this is Sparta.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
Chopper gives the ghost some.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
See this episode. I loved it when when when when
Canaan like when the lightsaber comes up and he's like whoa, whoa.
It's the only time I've ever heard him sound like
he's saying English words.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
He's like whoa, whoa what? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (09:35):
I I really liked this episode. I thought it was
also interesting because we haven't we haven't seen a trader yet, right,
like we this is our first uh well, like we
haven't discovered a trade area. And I was wondering, like
because again, because I had kind of forgotten about this.

(09:57):
It's like fallen out of my brain. I was like
watching it with fresh eyes and I was like, wait
a minute, like, at what point, I'm Taylor, I'm assuming
this was a first watch for you.

Speaker 5 (10:09):
I mean, why do we have to help me every since?

Speaker 7 (10:10):
No?

Speaker 3 (10:10):
No, no, I'm just wondering, like, did you at what
point did you were you onto him? Because like I
I was.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
I was like, wait a minute, Uh, there was like
a couple of it's so amazing because it's an animated show,
but there was like a couple of very subtle facial
expressions that you're like, hold on, what wait that seemed
disingenuous or whatever. And so when it when they learn

(10:41):
that he's he's a bad guy, I was like, Aha,
I knew it. And I love those watching any piece
of television or film where I feel like I like
was in on it before, you know, Like I was like,
I knew it. That's a really satisfying feeling.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
It's almost like your hedgecock mom, like behind you, like
an hitchcockers you're always yelling behind you, but they can't.
It's the closest we get to talk into ghosts is
when we yell at the TV or like and stuff
like that. So I'm glad you brought that up to
you because I had a question about did you find
out about this Travis Trader Thiss and real time in
the booth? Like did Vanessa? Were you tipped off like
to say like, hey, you're probably gonna be on to them,

(11:16):
Like I'm curious, like were different direction given to you
or did you know it before the session and you
had to absorb it. I'm really curious about that. I recollection.
I know it's been over ten years so well.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
From the script though, yeah, we would read. This was
early days they would send us the whole script. The
deeper they would not, but this they sent us everything.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, once we once we got further along and there
were like big old secrets that Dave didn't want everyone
to know, only on that need to know basis that
we've talked about. Then there were like parts of the
scripts that were that were uh not disseminated to everyone.
But this one we would have gotten the script. We
usually got the script what like twenty four to forty
eight hours before the recording session, so we would have

(11:58):
read it and then gotten into the booth and talked
about it before recording.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
But things like a punch or an eye roll or
something where you know he's taking his sweet time. Oh,
I'm so exhausted, and Harri's going I didn't. That's the
kind of thing on a page. You're looking at your lines.
What comes? Okay, what's the action of the scene. Okay, wait,
what's going on? It might not hit you. Oh there's

(12:24):
going to be a gratifying punch by Harah here. You know,
we saw it written in black and white and whatever.
But nothing can prepare you for which she just hammers him.
I'm like, yeah, but that it wouldn't have been as
memorable per se on the page as it is, you know,
really lovely to see.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, so satisfying.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh he deserved it, man, but I didn't. It's funny
because we were going to talk about this episode, I believe,
the last time we all got together. So I watched
it yet again last night. The first time that I
watched it before I thought we were going to discuss it,
I did not see any of it, even in real time,
even though I had already read the script and we

(13:07):
did it when I didn't even catch Harrah's facial expressions.
The second time, which would be the third time overall,
I oh, yeah, Harod is onto this guy. And the
last time I was like, oh, she gave him his gun.
Oh that's nice, he's gonna watch over. Oh whoa, Okay,

(13:28):
he's not a friend. Uh oh you know whereas this
time when I clocked her looks, knowing that something's off
with it, I'm like, why would she give him the gun?
That's interesting? And then you know when she says like
a true rebel with no last or isn't charged.

Speaker 7 (13:45):
So yeah, I've had several layers of enjoyment re experiencing
this one on the page, watching it a long time ago,
watching it a month ago, and then last night.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
So you see, there's just endless joy.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
I just love that Vanessa is Vanessa. Oh that might
have been a Fordian slipt i. Met Ara is always
playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers. You know,
she's like like you always you always are like oh
yeah she knew or like in the last well was
that the last episode or the episode before with what's

(14:24):
his face? LaMDA Morgan or yeah yeah, and you know
she she's like she's already like two, three, five steps ahead.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Love that something I put I wrote down that I
was like, I'm like, what did I mean by this?
Star Wars has some of the funniest and best, and
I'm sure like in fans will know way more of them,
but I pick up on it like one liner like
gotta go no, Like.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
It's just like I don't.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Notice that in many other things as much as I
notice it in Star Wars of just like sing does
the job, but it's always like I don't know, it
makes me laugh every time, and maybe because I know
all of us so well, Like it's just funny that
like whoever has to say, he's like gotta go.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, like when when she when she says, yeah,
don't worry, I can smell you, and you're Ezra is
going and I'm like, think of something clever to say later, Yeah, yeah,
you know, we got that exactly. That just shuts you down.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I just love that even in the like moments of
absolute peril early on, like in this season maybe next
next season, well we'll see, but like Ezra is just
still like hanging on to any crumb that Sabine. You
know that he thinks Sabina is throwing him. Meanwhile, Sabine

(15:46):
couldn't you know, couldn't be bothered, but he's like, you
know what I smell Like, I'm like, dude, there is
there's there's action happened. We got to get out of here.
We gotta you know.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
That is that is young people.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
I remember I think Ian said this, Like I remember
in high school playing game, like in a sporting event,
while being in the middle of basketball game, like having
a dialogue with people who were sitting in the front
row during the game, the coach being like, shut up, dude,
Like it's fine when.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
You say people in the front bro, you mean.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
Yeah, yeah, but I don't like to discriminate it.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
So you weren't talking to like your friend's parents that
were not no, no, but missus Ross probably looks great.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Another line I remember that I loved was Canaan saying,
I'm being optimistic. The way he says so.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
Funny to me, it's finely funny because we know Freddy
and Freddy is not like a negative guy. But that's
also something Freddy would never say totally, you know he did.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
He would mock it as much as Kanaan did, like yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
Which is pretty much what he likes to do.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
And yeah, it was very funny.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
You know what. Kanaan also says in this and this
will feed into her as I did at first. He says, guys,
it's a trap and I want to be Oh as
we said that first, can now you're just it's like
the student becomes the teacher, vice versus sort of thing.
Here's an interesting thought with Ezra because up to this
point he's having these sort of force blackouts where hits

(17:13):
his fight or flight thing and he's dabbled into the
dark side. We know how it ultimately ends up, because
you know, you all lived it. I've seen the series
a couple times over, but I remember this took me
back to when I first saw it. I'm like, oh, like,
is this going to be a tragic end? Like Anakin like,
because you know they're setting up Canaan for He's like,
I don't know if I'm worthy of being his master.

(17:33):
I don't know if I can do the job. And
it's almost like they're throwing hints at Ezra may not
make that choice. And also these little force visions. It
reminded me of episode three when Anakin's having visions of Padme.
So I don't know if that came to mind for
you at the time. I don't know if that came
to mind you here, because I forgot about that until
I watched it again. It took me back to twenty
fifteen watching it.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
Yeah, that he might be coming.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, I definitely I've had that. I had that fear
throughout so much so that when Darth Maul joins us,
I was terrified. I mean I personally as a fan,
was freaking out. And also I could feel Freddy's control

(18:15):
trying to like no man, you know, argue for Jedi
versus Sith. And it was definitely I felt that struggle
and concern. But you know that's just me.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
No, I did too. I did too.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
I was I feel like I'm shooting off other kids
in class right now, Like I'm waiting for someone to
answer and raise their hand and go up to the whiteboard,
and then I can I can turn what someone else
writes on the whiteboard into an eloquence. Though, But right
now with the Tabula Rasa, I'm a little like, I mean,
I wasn't thinking that at all. I think there's both

(18:56):
the naivety that Ezra has I also had through it,
and so I wasn't thinking of like an end fate
as much as and I think you feel it with Ezra.
There's a beauty that he's so present, like he doesn't
even know how not to be, and so I think
everything is at a tend stakewise with whatever is going on.
So right now, it's the only thing that would creep

(19:19):
in is stuff with his parents that would be foreshadowed,
that might be on his mind, that is existing before
and after.

Speaker 5 (19:25):
But like during these times, I think it's just like,
this is what's going on with cal Travis, and.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
I don't know personally, I wasn't thinking how much further
ahead that would or tend to something like Anakin's faith.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yeah, Okay, something else that Ezra did this episode, and
this is a mini side quest that jac will finish
in the fact check, But when Azar wakes up from
his lucid vision, he does the whole Wizard of Oz.
You were there, and you were there, and you were there,
and I went on this whole thing. Like, wait, when
I think about it, there's so many parallels between Star

(20:00):
Wars and Wizard of Oz. But like you take something
like Star Wars, it was a space Western with these
major orchestral pieces with epic brass sections, because that's how
John Williams does stuff, and with like the action series
of like a flash Gordon and Wizard of Oz was
this fairy tale with like Broadway numbers, but also a
story within the story, like they were both innovators in

(20:20):
terms of like how they told stories. But then you
look at three po three pos, like the ten man louse,
Skywalker is like Dorothy instead of over the rainbows, over
the two sons of Tito Win, and then Chewbacca's like
the cowardly lyon, especially in a New Hope. So it
got me thinking that I'm just planning to see because
jac and I talked about it yesterday. I'm like, hey, man,
I got a cool one for a fact check because
I know jac will go really really deep into that.

(20:42):
But I couldn't help but think that line in particular
was like a nod to George, because I know George
loves Wizard of Oz, he loves Kudasawa, he loves those movies.
And that was like day's version of Oh, I'm going
to honor my mentor, George, who honored the predecessors, and
I'm going to do it through Ezra and its fourth
visit and do it pulling the Dorothy from Wizard of Oz.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Wow, that's cool, really cool, and even into the vision
aspect of Dorothy going off into imagination or dream land.

Speaker 6 (21:11):
It is.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
It is really wild and cool.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
And then also all the the sort of savory and
unsavory characters along the way too. I'm sure you could
drive even more parallels. Who are the Munchkins? Well, that's
the Java's the javas was on the monks?

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Pardon my ignorance, but is this like a thing that
people have discussed. It sounds like probably for like in
depth like that the parallels.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
I'm sure, yeah, I you haven't.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Okay, I haven't either, but I just chalk that up
to my own like sort of not knowing enough about
this stuff. But that's really that's really fascinating.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yeah, So stay tuned to the end of the episode
where jac will continue that thought. If I need to
incentivize you anymore, jac Uh, well, we'll get there. We'll
get But I wanted to bring that up because I
couldn't the first myself. I'm like, wait, that's Wizard of Oz.
And then when I watched it again, I was like, oh,
that is Wizard of Oz, Because like, when you know
who influenced who and what art inspired the other art,

(22:10):
you know that things just aren't accidental, especially in Star Wars,
you know, because you're part of such a big, bigger story,
and and that channel that through Ezra with that simple line,
which to someone who doesn't know Wizard of Oz, it's like, Okay,
he's saying you were there because they were there in
his vision. But when you look even deeper, it's like, oh,
there's a this is a callback to the golden age
of cinema. I thought that was really cool, And that's

(22:32):
one of.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
My favorite things of art though, is in it like
almost everything is an inspired something because we how do
we learn anything. It's like what we see and hear
and are conditioned, like we come into a with nothing.
And it's I always find that so inching of like
one when you create art personally and you know where
you've stolen it or been inspired and someone points it

(22:53):
out like what a what a great idea, and you're like, sure,
I just like put it through my filter. But Star
Wars is that like everything I've and I'm sure Wizard
of Oz was inspired before, and the cycle sort of
forever continues that you're like repurposing everything through a new filter,
but and a new world. But I think that's one
of the coolest things with art, and I think something

(23:15):
very fun about Star Wars.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Absolutely, and that's what makes anything quote new. People looking
for original content, it's like, well, when you break it down,
there's there's seven eight kind of story archetypes. It's the
person and how they perceive it and how they want
to execute that story is what makes something new because
you break down, say the Lion King, Lion King's amazing
lin King's Hamlet, you know, when you really really break
it down, but it was through the lens of you know,

(23:39):
Pride Rock and Simba Mufasa, all this stuff who you know,
of course the Lake, Great James or Zones who Star Theater,
all this stuff. When you look at any story, you
can really a lot of times filtered down to Shakespeare,
but it always comes down to some sort of story archetype.
But it's you know, the innovators, the Spielberg's, the Coppola's,
Lucases of the world, who are gonna, you know, put
a new twist on it because that's just how they
see that world. And you know, I would hope any

(24:01):
of the younger creators listening to this when understanding you
don't have to reinvent anything. It's take what works, But
then how do you perceive this and how do you
want to express yourself through this archetype which is what rebels? Did?

Speaker 2 (24:14):
You know?

Speaker 4 (24:14):
Like it didn't try to like uproot and tear apart
what Star Wars was all the foundations there. But because
of these characters and because of what you all collectively
put together. This is why, like I can say this
because I'm the moderator and I'm a third neutral, third party.
You all don't have to do this, but this is
why a lot of people, including myself, considered this like
peak Star Wars because of that, because you took something

(24:37):
that's so well known that everybody can pick apart, but
it still made it its own thing but honored the
predecessors that came before it. So again, you don't have
to if you want to. I'm trying to protect you
all from that.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
That's very kind. Yeah, thank you, thanks for that, of.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
Course, of course, so that's also what I'm here for.
It's part of my contract. I have to get some
ted Lasso positive reinforcement. Another fun highlight in this episode
was we got to see zayre voiced by Brighton James again.
So that's the cool thing about uh, these these these
series is like, we do see these characters again, and

(25:18):
this will be a fun fact check for JC as well.
He says he's being transferred to Arcanis. I know very
little about Arcanis. OI have been general hucks on the
first order from the the later the Aprams trilogy was
born there. Yeah, I know, I don't. It's a rainy
planet in the Outer Rim, That's all I know. But again,
yeah it is. It's a seattle of the Outer rims

(25:40):
in notes, which coincidentally enough, Taylor's shared on on my
Google notes right here, so that explains it. Another fun
thing here was more of Callous, and we saw that
he's a little more than just this hired gun who's
going out to the rebels. You kind of see how
calculating and smart he is. Because I'm gonna pronouncing a

(26:03):
cat Suki Suki because she voices Minister Tua and also
Mirra Bridger Kath, I'm so sorry if I yeah, that's it,
SUSI yeah, Because she's a recurring character. She comes in
and tells Callous like, hey, we need to do this,
and he basically says no, no, no, if you want to
catch one, you catch I go after the whole group,
and this is where we start to see Callous's initiative

(26:26):
and that, Okay, he's not just the guy who's taking orders.
He's someone who is very intelligent and calculated, and they're
slowly unraveling that, which makes him a scarier villain because
he's not just the big bat heavy. It's like, oh,
this guy he can he can also play chess along
with the others too.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that he refers to Ezra as Jaba. Yeah, Java,
what's up, Jeff? Yeah? But I mean it's again like
I think he said Jaba not Jaba. Did he say Java?
Is like to say you're pasta and text and Jaba.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
I mean, it was funny just that he remembered him
saying like, what's your name? A Jaba? You know that
he remembered that's quote unquote his name, but also the
way he said it with the British accent. I don't
know why that moment for me was classic.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
I was I remember David, you know, I was. I'm
such a fan of his and I remember when he
was cast as Callous. He did a few I know,
some of his stuff he recorded in London, but he
did a few sessions with us, yes, and I remember
being like super I mean not like I just I was.

(27:39):
I was like, oh, I'm a huge fan of this dudes,
and he's such he's such a classy dude and like
such an amazing actor. So I was like delighted that,
you know, we got to actually work with him in
the booth. And but then for some reason, maybe maybe
the reason is that I haven't watched these episodes in
ten years or longer, right, yeah, ten years. But I'm

(28:01):
having I'm really enjoying watching the Callous stuff a second
time now, Like he's such a cool, interesting, foreboding character,
you know, amin as like he's and and David's voice
is just like so rich and and and and just

(28:21):
it's just I'm having a really good time watching Callous
through these early episodes and knowing like where we get to.
I'm excited to keep, you know, to see that story
arc continued.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
I thought for a second, you were calling Dave filon
and I was like, I've never heard that, Like, David
gave quite good I was like, what.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
I see it, Yeah, David Yellow, But Steve Bloom does
call David David. Yeah, you know, I.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Spoke with David Yellow clarify because I went to the
same Druma schools him and he came and did stuff.

Speaker 7 (29:07):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
After we had done.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, this yeah amazing.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Were you like yeah, Ezra Bridger and he was like, hey, no, no,
did you remember you?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
I said king later, Uh no, okay, no, we I
mean we didn't. It was in a group setting that
I was like, I I the poetic nature of this
is for me to.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Not say anything. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, fair enough.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah because everyone everyone knew, and everyone wanted me to
say something.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
That's why I was like, of course, I was like,
I'm not gonna say.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
So wait, let me get this straight. You made me
go tell James Hong that we had done a movie
together ten years or no, a few years prior, and
yet when you worked with David o'yello, oh yeah, I
don't take the advice I give. I really didn't want
to like debase myself and go and be like, hey

(30:07):
mister hang we would and he totally, I don't think,
remembered not a bit. And then you that's it. I'm
never taking advice from you again. Well that's that's unsure,
oh dear, okay as.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
You were saying that to you, I was like, I
think I know what Taylor is going to say, and
then you said exactly what I hope.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, that's probably your that's probably your. I mean I
would say worst fear, but yeah, like I feel like
you would never want to be predictable. Yeah, I don't
want to be predictable to myself. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:46):
Yeah, not a great quality.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
That can get one into trouble real quick.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
I gotta say, one of the things I really loved
about the episode is they were, you know, sprinting through
the sewer. I really love the camaraderie and the sense
of family, Like you know, Specter five, do you know
where we are? Sure?

Speaker 8 (31:09):
I think I I like and I just loved the
characters so much, and I just remember where we were
back then in terms of our friendship building, and I
for me personally, I felt like I had a more
intense sense of that in this episode and rewatching it that.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, by this time, I think we were kind of
making fun of each other and you know whatever, that
we had sort of landed a bit by this episode,
and it was very very fun. It was fun to record,
it was fun to watch, and yeah, yeah, I don't know.
It was moving to me.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
By this point. I feel like we'd moved past the formalities,
you know, and we like fully like we were. We
were past all the like now we can start like
ribbing each other and making fun of each other.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
And yeah, it was this episode I was finally not
off book. You know, I can go in and I
can read this. I thought of the teenage mutant Ninja Turtles,
and I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
That's why.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
It's a crazy parallel, I know, but through the sewers,
it's like it calls up for certain.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
That was in my original recap. But I already made
a Ninja Turtles joke when Dante was on the podcast,
so I didn't want to repeat myself, but I did
originally as like, wait, this sounds really familiar, and I
was like, oh, yep, I did say that. So I
went with the Goonies because that's you know, that's perfect.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
I can never fail with the Goonies.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
This is true.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
It's good enough as you if you want to go there,
like the Sidney Lapper song. You know, goonies are good
all right, right, we can cut that from the podcast.
No, no believe it, that's funny.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
No, don't you dare.

Speaker 9 (32:54):
You?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Fellow Cyndy Lapper fans listening to this podcast, I think
fellow because I'm a huge Cindypper.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
One of the interesting underlying themes of this episode two,
which I feel like you three are so intelligent and
you know, very thoughtful with everything you do, is two
things stood out to me. Like one is like false idols,
because you were like idolizing this Travis guy, like, oh,
he's going to be the savior and he's going to
trail place for us and almost give us permission to
keep on doing this mission that we're doing. And also

(33:21):
the other one was like don't meet your heroes. Those
are the two things that really came to mind for me,
because you know, you do meet Travis and he lets
you down. And what I love about it is instead
of wallowing that and instead of Hara just flat out
saying hey, it's this, which is a great speech, she's like, hey,
you know, I wanted to believe in him too. So
it was almost like when adults tell a kid, hey,

(33:42):
you know, we're figuring things out too. Yeah, we don't
have all the answers, so don't feel like you're doing
anything wrong for going that route, and I wanted to
throw that to the three of you. I don't know
if that came to mind for you, but I feel
like it comes up a lot in Star Wars, but
this episode especially had a lot of these underlying themes,
and those two really stood out to me.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
I definitely I agree, and that added to the sense
of family, and you know, I'm reminded of obviously later
when Canaan makes the ultimate sacrifice that we all got
to process that together. But I recently rewatched episode seven,
eight and nine, and particularly in the Rise of Skywalker,

(34:23):
you have a sense that the rebellion is ending, like
the spark, you know, the Spark of Rebellion was the
initial sort of vibe of this entire cartoon series, and
by episode nine, things are not looking good at the
end there and like the spark is out and I
thought we had a shot, and then you know, it's

(34:46):
It's amazing how they comfort each other and managed to
have the hope, like that line that I was saying
that Hara has knowing where the franchise ultimately goes. You know,
I remember Simon Kinberg saying, we want to know. You
know that he had us well at least, he had
me watch different movies about civil movements and how they

(35:08):
began with two people meeting in a room. Who are
those two people? Well maybe you know Ahsoka and Hera,
or you know, we want to know how those initial
meetings went that you know, ultimately when Princess Leah is like,
oh be wan Kenobi on my own new hope and
you know, puts the intel in that he said, that

(35:28):
is on the backs of these individuals that we're getting
to know. So I also had a sense of kind
of the magic carpet ride simultaneously the roller coaster ride
of hey we're up, Oh we have no fuel or
whatever it is. And in this case, you know, don't
meet your heroes. We've been let down and they do
kind of live on crumbs and then sometimes rarefied air.

(35:53):
But that sort of being in the moment with each
obstacle or victory is peek Star Wars, as you said.
But I definitely had a sense of once again, like
I said, the friendship that was actually going on in
the room, but also the different points in the narrative
gave us the opportunity to exhibit that and comforting Ezra,

(36:15):
I thought was one of those cool moments.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
I agreed with everything you just said. I also was
just thinking that like, despite these like hardships or you know,
roadbumps or you know, disappointments, they always have each other,
which is kind of like the crux of this whole thing, right,

(36:38):
is that this found family and the ability to like
wholly and completely rely on each other and trust each other,
which is so nice to see. It's so refreshing to see.
So yeah, I think that, I genuinely I think that
people who do love the show and love the characters,

(37:01):
I think that that's kind of probably what I've been told,
and I would think.

Speaker 10 (37:06):
That, like that's really what draws folks to our characters
and our show, is this like kind of unbreakable bond
and implicit trust.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
And respect for each other. I mean, obviously there's like
the stuff between Sabine and Ezra and like and zeb
and Ezra and really just Ezra and all of the
characters and the Chopper and Shopper. Yeah, but beyond I
mean that's all sort of like fun, fun and games.
But then like when it comes down to it, like

(37:38):
that's that's really what I think makes this so special.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, it's cool to see the bond grow with all
of them, and as the bond grows, the vulnerability rises
that and that's also a beautiful thing, like you care
for each one of them more and more. Like I'm
now sort of craving the whole zeb storyline. I'm just

(38:01):
looking forward to it so much more, which is really
sweet knowing where we're going obviously.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, that speaks to I mean, his characters. That character
arc is is tremendous and you see the seeds of
it now, you know, Yeah, it's really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
And I know, like I'll I'm like the number one
Steve bloom fan, but like actually, I mean we all are.
But it's just a testament to like that guy's talent
and depth and complexity because like he's so funny as Zeb,
but then there's so much more and I think obviously

(38:44):
no shade to like our writers that wrote like that
that story arc for him, but just like Steve blue Man.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
Yeah yeah, he also said, yeah, there's a reason why
he's the most prolific voice like voice actor inness Book
of World Records.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
When when he drops down from above with his whatever
that weapon is, like, you know, don't worry, our friends
will be along and then he comes down. I'm like,
you go, Zeb, he just cracks him. I love it.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
Yeah, the Zeb laugh gets me every time. That's a
horrible impression. But like the laugh that Steve was able
to do because it's it's so genuine, because you feel
a lot of state going into that.

Speaker 5 (39:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah, like he's having such a great time doing the lab,
but it's also very Zeb at the same time, like
he never loses himself with him.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
It's funny you point that out. Actually, I love that observation.
That is like the most the part of Zeb. If
that makes sense, like if that laugh is so, he's
a very happy, joyful dude.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Yeah, as people saw when he was on a few
episodes ago, and we got to bring him back soon.
Hopefully he must be our recurring Yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Really need him to weigh in on this light sayber
jet pack thing.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
I'm not sure. I'm sure he'll have some thoughts. So
a couple more things. There was a brief mention after
Travis's transmission, which I don't know if this is a
direct not to the previous episode. I think it is.
They mentioned the Lathal minds, but then it cuts off.
I'm like, oh, is it's something that Lando, because Lando
had the puffer pig that was going to scull out

(40:20):
the mind and get stuff. So I was like, oh,
is that a subtle nod like, Oh, Lando's still out
there doing his thing. I don't know, Maybe j C'll know.
I just want to throw that little nugget.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
At you that did not touch that either.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
It was really quick. I'm like, wait with all minds
because the previous episode, Lando's literally talking about it. But again,
we'll have to fact check that. I know we're giving
him I see, I see in mind the scenes again,
it's like the.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
JC. We give him so much work and then he
always brings it.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
He does every time.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
That's that's part of the fun though, you know. Of
when you get to Jac's segment, which we're almost there,
but before we get there, people will recall last week,
and you'll all recall last week we were talking about
basketball player equivalents for your characters. So I thought, this is.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
The mild debate.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
I concurred with your allan iverson, but we're going to
come up with new ones today, which if you want,
I can go first to kind of just like if
you all want to still think about it. I don't
mind going first. I put a little thought into this.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
John, did you come up with one of yours for
yourself or one for each of us?

Speaker 4 (41:30):
Just for the three of you.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Oh, well, then you've got to throw one in for
you too. Oh it's for our characters.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
For your characters. Thanks. Ye got it.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
So I just want to throw in that J. C.
Phil Jackson in my mind.

Speaker 9 (41:41):
I love it. I love that.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
I need to come up. Well, I'm just thinking now because.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
John, we got to come up with one for John.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
We'll figure that out.

Speaker 6 (41:50):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
I'm getting I'm getting I'm getting John Stockton vibes. I'm
getting John Stone.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Okay, he was kind of a dirty player. But I
mean yeah, I mean.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
I would show Steve. I mean he got the job
done and if I was gonna go ste.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
But I but but I will say, all those players there,
he's a sneaky player. I shouldn't say dirty, but he'll he'll.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I don't mean for that for you, I'm.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
At for general, keeps everything running, facilitating.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
I'll take that.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
I'll we're gonna go consensus. I like Steve Nash. I
like Steve Nash for you cool, just a classy dude, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (42:31):
Should I should have gone.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
He's a nice Canadian former Laker, you know. Yeah, yeah,
I like that, and you know, okay, I'll take some
Steve Nash actually, okay, so I'm gonna start with one.
Let me tell you something. People talk magic, Okay, is
magic Oscar's Oscar pistol piece, pistol pete. People usually put
Isaiah right after Magic. And look, if you say that,
I'm not going to say you're wrong. But for me,

(42:53):
I would put Stockton. He was such a pure point guard,
always get it done. Yeah, and but just the way
he ran offenses to perfection, but also the way he
played defense. And that guy was one of the best
rebounding point guards at like six foot one. He's out
rebounding guys at the city. So I agree one hundred percent. Okay, yeah,
I'm with that. Okay, So miss are Ezra and I'm

(43:14):
using current NBA players for the three of you. I
put Anthony Edwards for.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
A dude, no way, Look, that's all my notes.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Well there Anthony Edwards.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
Because Anthony Edwards, I mean.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
All of this other random wow, I have them already.
It's one man.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
And because you look at Anthony Edwards. He's got such
a gift and like, if he keeps on honing that,
there's no limits somebody can do. And that's Ezra. I
did a bonus. I used w NBA players too and
put w I would have done that, Dang. I put
Chelsea Gray, so people who don't know Chelsea Gray, Chelsea
is it. That'd be awesome. If it was very plot

(44:02):
to us, I could totally see the resemblance. Uh, Chelsea Gray.
You watched this woman play, and there's the reason why
Kobe like was like her mentor for a minute. Kobe
didn't just mentor anybody. But the way Chelsea Gray attacks
the game, she's also got this gift and she even
though she's not getting the credit, she's still going to
go in and give you everything she's got. Even when
she wasn't starting for Las Vegas. When she came off

(44:24):
the bench, she was such a spark, just like a
was a bit of a spark to the Ghost crew
once he joined and he started settling in. So that's
my ezra for Harah. I put Kevin Durant and dude,
get out of here.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
Is really.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Dude, I'm not kidding, We're not colluding. I swear you
got like this.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
We've been on the.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
Same page with all I'm changing. I'm literally not changing.
I love that I wrote a second one for her.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
Too, because Katie does everything. I would say Katie arguably
is probably one of the most if not the most
underrated superstar in NBA history. But he does everything, yet
he doesn't have all the hype around him, just like Harah.
You know, when you really look at what Harrah's done,
She's done everything and she's incredible, Like literally nothing she
can she can't do. So I was thinking of coming

(45:14):
to rant. For Harah WNBA equivalent, I put Sue Bird.
Sup Bird was like the same way superb was just
everywhere on the court, just like ultimate floor general, ultimate leader,
could do everything. So those are my two for Harah.
For Sabine, I put Russell Westbrook because.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
That's good, that's actually good.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
That's good about I put my hands up.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
I love Russ. I love Russ.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
Ross is another one who although.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
He doesn't love me, when I did the move with
KD and we were in Oklahoma, he gave me no love.
This isn't calling out rus Russell's fantastic, but he I
remember he would just joke around me.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
He's like, why aren't they making a movie about me?
And I was like, I don't know, dude, you it
was funny.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
I love that he asked you, Yeah, let me make
some calls. Well, you have a you have a very
authoritative presence. That must be why he asks you. But Russ,
you know, averaged a triple double. Only other person to
do that is Oscar Robertson does everything on the court,
does what he needs to do on the court. And
also his artisticness when you look at his shoes, just
like when you look at Sabine's Mandalorian outfit. He's a

(46:23):
very artistic and fashionable person, which I feel like Sabine
is like a fashion icon within Star Wars. So that's
why I put Russell for your WNB equivalent. I put
Brionna Stewart.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
You don't know.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
Briona Stewart is everywhere, does everything, and also a bit
of a fashion icon Swiss army knife. So those are
my personal ones. Uh, And I will throw it to
the three of you now to think about yourself.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, Taylor would be the logical next.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Well, I mean, because they're the anti Edwards exact same.
There's a new documentary on Netflix. Court of Goal I
think it's called And they meet with Obama Obama to
speak with tam Usa before they go play in the
recent Parisian Olympics, and everyone's in reverence as in deference

(47:08):
to Obama, as you would think, not that Anthony Edwards isn't.
But he's just like, I don't know if you and
you guys have seen this, but he's like Josh and
Obama and Obama's like trying to send it back and
Anthey Edwards is like trash talking him like he's a
player on the.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
Court and he's like, what are you talking about, bro?

Speaker 2 (47:24):
And you're like, dude, that's Obama, what do you He.

Speaker 5 (47:28):
Does not care.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
And it's the beauty of Anthony Edwards and why he's
so incredible and he could be the best player in
the NBA and it looks like that might happen, but
there's still a lot of work to do. He's like
a diamond in the rough. But he has that sort
of nature that like why why not? Why not me?
Why can't we do it all? And so you nailed

(47:50):
it with that. I wrote Katie for Hara. I also
wrote for my second David Robinson the Admiral David is kad.
I love Kittie obviously, I I think he's incredible, but
I think he does get a little more love. Like
most conversations I have, I hear like he's the greatest

(48:10):
scorer in the NBA easily, Like if if he's hot,
nobody can stop me. And you can't say about every person,
but David Robinson just held it down and Haarrah holds
everything down like you. It doesn't function without Haarra. There's
a reason they called him the Admiral obviously his dad,
but also what he was on the floor. And yeah,

(48:31):
I think that works really well. And then for Sabine,
I like the Russell westbrookpole. We're losing everyone by the way, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Feeling and so remember everybody, Jac's fact check is after this,
so don't love. We're not going to lose you yet.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah, and we gave him a lot to do this time.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Fast, I'll be fast.

Speaker 5 (48:53):
I go Dame Lillard for dans ability.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
His uh, he was a he's clutch time Sabine shows
up in the clutch.

Speaker 5 (49:04):
The only things that Damian Lillard can do and only
things that Sabine can do.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Oh, that might be the nicest thing you've ever said
to me, Taylor, And Okay, I didn't understand the assignment.
I only did picked one for Sabine. I didn't realize
we were picking ones for each other's character. I'm so sorry.
I apologize. Was that the assignment or did y'all just

(49:29):
go extra credit?

Speaker 5 (49:30):
Extra credit?

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Okay, all right? So I like Damian Lillard. I like that,
you know his artistic side and the juxtaposition there. I'm
I'm I'm on, I'm in with that. I feel like
you guys are not going to agree with my choice
for Sabine, but I chose him because he is a
hero of mine. I'm going Steve Kerr. I think Steve

(49:53):
Kerr is I would vote for Steve Kerr for president. Frankly,
if I'm being honest, he is so inspiring. I mean
he was. First of all, if you know anything about
Steve Hurr's life, he overcame incredible like trauma, familial like
it's a really sad story. If you guys, if anyone

(50:15):
listening this is still listening, knows what I'm talking about.
He experienced some like really horrible stuff, tragedy in his family.
He was able to overcome that go on to be
an incredible player on the court leader off the court.
Now he's the cool I mean, he's like, he's so outspoken,

(50:38):
he's so strong in his convictions, and he isn't He
doesn't allow his position as like a head NBA coach
to keep him, like, to keep him from like speaking
out on what he thinks is important. He just d
gaf like he if he feels wrongly, and he does

(51:00):
feel strongly about a lot of socio political issues, he
is willing to go out there and speak on it
and doesn't let like, oh, oh, you know, I shouldn't
because that might upset people. He doesn't care. He's going
to talk about like injustices in the world. He's going
to call those things out and speak truth to power.

(51:21):
And I think that that kind of gives me sabine vibes.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
I love that, and I love Steve Kerr. Stee fun fact.
Steve Kerr helped me perfect my free throw form when
I was in eighth grade because the Bulls used to
put all these basketball camps for US Chicago and he
saw me like I would make it. I was pretty
good at it, and he's like, hey, He's like bend
your knees a little more and bring your elbow up
this way, because he was getting me to get under

(51:46):
the ball more. The moment I did that, I was
like ninety percent from free throws, just from that one adjustment.
And I said, as an eighth creator. And I'm not
taking credit for his coaching career, like you should be
a coach someday. He's like he's like, oh no, like no, no, no, no, no,
he was. He was very like, okay, no, no, I'm good.
I'm good, and now look at him and now look

(52:07):
at him, not look at him. So I love that.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
It's amazing.

Speaker 9 (52:10):
Yeah, all right, Vanessa, Well all right, so first off,
I missed the whole thing that for me, Sabine is
Alan Iverson, and I thank you so like I don't
even know what to tell you, and you know I can't.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Desmond Mason, uh he played for SuperSonics, Bucks and the Hornets, Milwaukee,
Oklahoma City, Thunder, the Kings, and Sacramento. He was an
artist and a painter. I don't know, guys, that's a
reach I'm going with Alan Iverson and I just can't.
But and I thank you for that sure, And I

(52:47):
mean you've got your signature move and it's you're you're amazing.
So for some reason, Harah to me reminds me of
Kareem Abdul Jabbar. There's something, there's something in excessible with him,
and it's it's greater than what many of us could
possibly fathom. Somehow there's a vibe that there's something else

(53:08):
going on, and uh, I think Kareem got it done. Now. Granted,
I grew up in Los Angeles dealing with the Lakers
my entire life, and then initially I thought Ezra was
Magic Johnson because you know, he initially has that kind
of uh, you know, jolly vibes and obviously he's an
incredible player, but I think the swagger of Michael Jordan

(53:30):
is more Ezra for me. Yeah, I think No, I
think I think Ezra slays in a way that he
would have his own sneaker line eventually. So that's where
I was going with that, And yeah, I thought then

(53:51):
I was like, no, you know who's Magic Johnson? Is
zeb definitely a bit of a goofball but also amazing
in his execution. And then for Freddy Lebron that's good.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, I go Barkley on zeb.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Yeah, I love bron Well, that's that's not terrible.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Te.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
I appreciate that, that's not torible. I'll put you in
my five.

Speaker 5 (54:19):
Let's see if we get two listeners still here.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
Yeah, if you guys, maybe God bless, I think, or
maybe underestimating our audience. I feel like a lot of
our audience are sports fans. I agree.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
I mean, I love that, or we're just opening ourselves
up to all demograph or sports fans. I mean I
realized they're also Star Wars fans.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
There you go this then diagram. I think there's a
lot of overlap, I believe.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
I think they just need to be there needs to be. Yeah,
and there's just more in common. People might think I
love those and I love Kareem because Kareem is such
a fascinating person. Because you talk about somebody who at
a very young age has two mentors were John Wooden
and Bruce Lee, two of the greatest philosophical minds, and
you see like you see that come out and what

(55:05):
he talks about now he's he's also very much like
I'm gonna say when needs to be said, and also
arguably the most unstoppable shot in NBA history the skyhook,
you know which I'm gonna say, If Webbin Yana can
come up with like a skyhook, he's also going to
be pretty nasty to deal with. So that'll be a
little sports analysis there. This Segon was a lot of fun. Look, everybody,

(55:26):
we love our sports here and we'd like to incorporate
stuff and we like to be all inclusive. And look,
was this directly related to the episode? No, but also
it kind of was when you think about the qualities
of these athletes, maybe you can take that into the
future episodes that we're going to rewatch. So I think,
I don't. I can't promise it will be the last
time we'll do something like this, because it probably won't be,

(55:46):
but uh.

Speaker 7 (55:48):
I would.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
I would love to have some athletes on. We'll get
some but.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Okay, we'll get some on. We'll get some on. I
know Julian Edelman. I know you also have a podcast
on the iHeart Network, So let's let's keep it all
in the family. And I saw you when you won
that Super Bowl. You posted this Rise of Edelman meme
on your Twitter when I was still on Twitter, so
I know you're a Star Wars fan, my man, So
you are welcome you anytime, and we will come to
our podcast as well.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
So I love that you just expect that Julian Edelman
is listening to this. WoT of course, hey Julian, since
you're listening.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
So AnyWho, Well, now, everybody, we come to the point
of the show. We've come to the point that I
think is our favorite part of the show. I know
it's a lot of your favorite part of the show.
It is time for fact check with our guy JC.
What do we got today?

Speaker 6 (56:37):
Oh my gosh, you guys, I don't know.

Speaker 11 (56:39):
People behind the scenes don't realize we we had a
little hiatus of recording and so you guys really came
out and made me dust the uh just the cof today.
So I'm going to try to get through this. I
apologize if I missed anything. All of our listeners can
be like, hey, they mentioned this and you did in

(56:59):
fact check that.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
But I'm going to do my best here.

Speaker 11 (57:01):
Vanessa, you mentioned Chopper at the beginning, going after that droid.
I just want to point out that is an R
four droid that he goes after R two, R three,
R four, R five. That is an R four droid.
You can tell by the dome, the pointed dome on
that Tia you mentioned the first time we discover a trader,
the first time we have a trader in our midst

(57:23):
and Star Wars rebels, I wasn't able to definitively confirm
that that's the first time. I did want to point
out that Brent Spiner from Data played Travis, which we
mentioned the first time he showed up in an earlier episode,
and Taylor, you were really upset by Travis because this
is the first time you had watched this.

Speaker 6 (57:44):
I wanted to put your concerns.

Speaker 11 (57:47):
At ease that at the conclusion of the Galactic Civil War,
after returning the Jedi, Travis was put on trial by
the New Republic and found guilty. If you want to
read more about that Star Wars Rise and Fall of
the Galactic Republic, which is a book that came out
in twenty twenty four. Anyway, he didn't get away with it,

(58:07):
so we can all sleep well tonight knowing that he
was punished for his misdeeds. John, you mentioned our Canis
Arcanis is a system and kind of a planet. There's
some ambiguity here and there's some retconning that happened. The
consensus is it's along the Carillion Run, which is a
hyperspace lane that people take from the core worlds out

(58:31):
to the outer rim. It's close to Tattooin goes crosses
by hut Space. There's also kind of two different spellings
if you want to get into the nitty gritty, there's
Arko Nis and Arka Nis. And this planet shows up
all over the Clone Wars and different novels and comic

(58:52):
books and all over the place. It's kind of a
go to I think that they name drop here and there.
Now here's the big one, Wizard of Oz and Star Wars.
I want to preface this by saying, which we've mentioned
in the past, Wizard of Oz and Star Wars are

(59:12):
perfect examples of Joseph Campbell's heroes Journey, which I'll go
into a little bit because I'm sure this is going
to be something that comes up and comes up over
and over throughout the podcast. But it's also just a
great chance to show how stories that humans tell over
the course of time interconnect.

Speaker 6 (59:29):
But first, Wizard of Oz.

Speaker 11 (59:31):
The main character in Wizard of Oz lives with her
aunt and uncle on a farm that sounds a little
bit familiar an orphan that lives on a farm. Dorothy
and Luke goes on an otherworldly journey. Luke goes through
mosse Iciley and Dorothy goes through a tornado. As John
pointed out, Luke goes on a journey with a tin

(59:54):
man C three po, a lion animal Chewbacca, and a
man with very little brains on solo.

Speaker 6 (01:00:03):
Also a little.

Speaker 11 (01:00:04):
Companion that can't really communicate directly, but plays a large
part R two D two. In Toto, they invade the
castle of an evil witch aka the Death Star and
Darth Vader who has magical powers. They dress up as
palace guards. In Wizard of Oz, which you know, Han

(01:00:25):
and Luke dress up as stormtroopers, there is a good
witch that helps the main character on their journey Obi
Wan Kenobi or Glinda, and the power rests within Dorothy
the entire time. In the Ruby Step Slippers or the
forest within Luke Skywalker. I also wanted to point out
another connection to the Wizard of Oz, which isn't directly

(01:00:48):
related to the hero's journey that the main characters take,
but Walter Merch, who was mentioned last in an earlier
episode of Pot of Rebellion when we were talking about
Ben Burt in The Wilhelm Scream. Walter Merch directed the
sequel in nineteen eighty five called Return to Oz. He

(01:01:08):
was fired by Disney while directing that movie. George Lucas
flew to London and vouched for Walter Murch, who was
his old time friend, and said that they needed to
rehire Walter, and George put himself up as collateral. If
there was a problem with the movie, George would go
in and finish the movie. Now, this is also nineteen

(01:01:30):
eighty five, right after Return of the Jedi, so George
Lucas was the guy. So there's another very direct connection
from Star Wars and George Lucas directly to the Wizard
of Oz. I'm going to go into this just a
little bit. There's so much online and great YouTube videos,
but just in case too long didn't read, I'm going

(01:01:51):
to take you guys through the hero's journey just a
little bit because I think it's something that's going to
continue to come up as we talk about Star Wars
and Inspas and things.

Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
Because again, if you google.

Speaker 11 (01:02:03):
Star Wars Wizard of Oz, there's a lot of articles
that say, oh, George Lucas ripped off Wizard of Oz,
You can say that about anything. The collect term is inspirational, right,
So stories The first example of the hero's journey is
the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is a Mesopotamian story, is

(01:02:24):
kind of the first credited thing to that. But also
there is stuff in Greek mythology, be Wolf, the Odyssey.
These are all examples of basically the same plot points
happening again and again and again. Hero's journey was first
kind of defined by Joseph Campbell in Hero with a
Thousand Faces, which we've talked about in the past. One

(01:02:45):
of the kind of backgrounds is Joseph Campbell wanted to
study the similarities behind different cultures. Typically, when you would
look at something from a sociological or an anthropological perspective,
you would always stuy the differences, right, What makes the
person from here different from the person from here is

(01:03:06):
these things right? Their composition of you know, these guys
were bigger, these guys were skinnier. Because of this and this,
Joseph Campbell wanted to study similarities, and so he looked
at the stories that different cultures told that were seemingly
not in connection with each other. So again, another Star

(01:03:26):
Wars connection is the virgin birth, which appears for Anakin
Skywalker and Star Wars episode one. When you see that,
immediately as we're watching that in the United States, we're
all like, oh, it's like Jesus and Christianity. But there
are examples of virgin births in Aztec and Egyptian and
all of these other cultures that were not necessarily connected

(01:03:47):
to Christianity at the time that that was happening. So
that's how communicate, and they couldn't communicate. Yeah, there's oceans
dividing these people. So at similar times humans were telling
similar stories. And the hero's journey is basically the pattern
in which Joseph Campbell found that people told these heroic stories,

(01:04:11):
which is a twelve kind of a twelve step thing
that I'm going to try to go through so quickly
because just in case going forward on this podcast, the
hero always goes lives in the ordinary world, gets a
call to adventure, refuses the call. So if we're looking
at Star Wars, call lives on this terrible farm that

(01:04:33):
he can't stand, gets a call to adventure. You know,
you must take the droids to Alderon. No, I can't
go to Alderon. I need to work here the farm.
And you know next season when he meets Obi meeting
the mentor, it's when he meets Obi Wan Kenobi crossing
the threshold. The famous example of that is when Luke
goes to the Cantina and sees this new magical world

(01:04:56):
for the first time, tests allies and enemies. That's the
trip to the Death Star where he and Han Solo bond,
they meet Princess Leah. That whole thing approach to the
innermost cave that is the most dangerous part of the journey.
You can point to the trash compactor scene there in
a New Hope, the Ordeal the hero face is a

(01:05:18):
major crisis or test. It forces them to confront their
deepest fears and weaknesses that can be looked at when
Obi Wan Kenobi dies and they have to battle the
tie fighters. Then there's reward. The hero overcorns the ordeal
and receives the award or gains valuable insight. That's where
kind of like Luke decides to go and is given
an X waying to battle against the Death Star, and

(01:05:40):
you see the Han bails on.

Speaker 6 (01:05:42):
Them at that point the road back.

Speaker 11 (01:05:44):
The hero begins their journey back to the ordinary world,
often facing new challenges. That's the attack on the Death Star,
Big Stark Lighter, his best friend from back home, dies
right then and there Resurrection. The hero faces the final
test challenge that tests their transformation and growth. Put the
target getting computer away, and then you know, learns like Dorothy,

(01:06:04):
the power to win the day is within use the
force Luke. The hero returns to the ordinary world carrying
a transport formative change. He knows he's going to become
a Jedi or knowledge it benefits them and others. So
you can apply those twelve steps almost. I mean, you
can apply those steps to Toy Story and Woody and

(01:06:24):
Buzz in a lot of ways, you know. So that's
going to happen over and over and over as we
talk about the things that were inspired by our similarities
to Star Wars. That was really long. If you're still
with me, Vanessa, you mentioned excuse me, Vanessa, you mentioned
Zeb's weapon. It's a bow rifle eighty seventy five. Part

(01:06:46):
of Lisok culture that is an electro staff and a blaster.
I was able to find no direct confirmation between Lander,
Lando the Puffer Pigs and the minds of Lothal. But
I don't think you know, Henry Gilroy and Dave Filoni
when they were writing this, I don't think there's any
such thing as coincidence. I think that there's probably intent there.

(01:07:09):
The amazing basketball discussion. I don't go deep on basketball
like you guys do, but when we took football or baseball,
I will be one hundred percent in on that. But
one thing that came up in that discussion is Taylor,
you called Harah the admiral or David Robinson, and I
left me thinking, why is Hara not an admiral? Like

(01:07:30):
she has been part of the rebellion since the inception,
but she's still a general even you know, post returned
to the Jedi, And what's the deal with that? It
seems a little messed up. So I did a little
looking into that, and apparently Haarrah commands a specific type
of craft. So Harah always stated general because she always

(01:07:52):
commanded a specific type of craft, so starfighters or something
like that. Admirals command a group of different types of craft,
So Harah probably wanted to stick with her crew and
get into the nitty gritty and keep her hands dirty
in a way that an admiral kind of has to
take one thousand mile macro view on everything. So Harra

(01:08:17):
doesn't need to be or people don't need to be
offended on Harr's behalf because it obviously was a personal
choice from Harah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
That's exactly why I want to bring that up. JS
also going to go back and watch Wicked immediately.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
It's all amazing, well done.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
I feel like you almost opened up a whole that discussion,
like a is someone keeping Harah from being an admiral?
Like do we need to get like Isabelle Wilkerson about
cass and hierarchy, Like maybe maybe you might have a
whole other sociological study. That was awesome As always, JC,
there's a reason why people gravitate towards the fact check,
including everybody here, and you never let us down. Thank
everybody for listen. If you're still with us, I think

(01:09:01):
you're still with us. And if it's only sports fans,
now you're gonna realize how big of Star Wars fans
you are. And if everybody stuck around then now, as
t allude to before, the ven diagram just became a
much much bigger circle. We're gonna be back next week
to talk about season one, Episode thirteen, Call to Action Again.
Three episodes left to season one. Things are really ramping
up and we are going to see a lot of action,

(01:09:22):
a lot of cool things, a lot of character expansion
as we get towards the end of the season, and
we got some other special guests. We're planning to cap
off season one, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime,
follow us on Instagram Potter Rebellion, Write to us Potter
Rebellion Podcast at gmail dot com. We've gotten a lot
of great emails of cosplay fan art and questions, which

(01:09:42):
we're gonna address as bonus episodes on here as much
as we can and five star ratings. Subscribe, tell your mother,
tell your friends, Hello, everybody. In the meantime, Send us away,
Taylor here.

Speaker 5 (01:09:53):
The music.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcast producer,
hosted by Vanessa Marshall, Tia Surkar, Taylor Gray, and John
Ley Brody executive producer and in house Star Wars guru
slash factchecker J. C.

Speaker 6 (01:10:08):
Reifenberg.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
Our music was composed by Mikey Flash. Our cover art
was created by Neil Fraser of Neil Fraser Designs. Special
thanks to Holly Frean, Aaronkauffman over at iHeart, Evan krasgoor
at William Morris Endeavor, Tresa Canobio, George Lucas for creating
this universe we love so much, and of course all
of our amazing listeners. Follow us on Instagram at Potter
Rebellion and email us at Potter Rebellion Podcasts at gmail

(01:10:30):
dot com