August 28, 2023 • 19 mins
On this episode of “Podversations”, Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni, hosts of the podcast “Frugal Friends” join iHeartPodcasts President, Will Pearson. Since 2018 Jen and Jill have been helping listeners gain a little more control over the countless directions their money is being pulled toward through frugality and a few laughs. If you're trying to save money, spend less, adopt minimalism, pay off debt or reach financial independence, we think you'll love their show!
Listen in on this conversation about what it's been like for Jen and Jill over their 5 years making Frugal Friends, the community of listeners they've grown along the way, and some of their best advice for achieving your personal financial goals.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
iHeartRadio presents Conversations, a weekly discussion with the biggest names
and influencers in podcasting. I want to learn the secret
Psycho rituals scrubstars Zach Braff and Donald Beson used before
Every Fake Doctor's Real Friends taping how Vice News parachutes
in the war zones to rescue journalists from life threatening situations.
For why Kegan, Michael ke and Blumhouse believe three D
(00:27):
audio is the future of storytelling. Whether you're a newbie
trying to break into the podcast game or an exec
trying to refine your playbook, conversations is the easiest way
to keep your pulse on the industry as.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello and welcome back to the iHeart Podcast Speaker series.
I'm Will Pearson, President of iHeart Podcast. One of my
favorite conversations every week when we get a chance to
chat with one or more of our creators to talk
about their podcast. Hear what they're up to, where they
see the industry going, and today feels like a very
fitting conversation. We've been having a lot of conversations around
here around budgets and around how we all spend and
(01:09):
how we all think about money, and it's something that
sometimes we're afraid to talk about, but it's the kind
of thing that's really important to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
And to be smart with our money. And we have.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Two fantastic hosts that are here to talk about their show,
Frugal Friends. It's a really fun approach to talking about
these kinds of topics. It doesn't have to always be
super stressful, and it can be the kind of thing
where you can just have a good casual conversation about it.
Jen and Jill are the best at this. So thanks
for joining us today. How are you guys doing?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Thanks so much for having us Will and that amazing intro.
We do love to say. If it's not fun, it's
not Frugal Friends. So you've got it, you understand. Yeah,
we're excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So I actually I was listening to your latest episode
and my wife is going to be excited because my
wife is a big fan of the Enneagram system and
many of her friends, as I'm sure you're hearing from
a lot of them, because she's into the whole personality
thing and learning how that applies to how we spend
money or save money or think about money was pretty interesting.
(02:13):
So maybe we'll come back to that in a second,
But it was definitely fun to hear that episode and
I sent it to her, But would love to go
back to the beginning. First of all, how the two
of you met, How the two of you decided to
start making frugal friends. Tell us how that came about.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Back in twenty seventeen, my husband and I were in
the middle or near the tail end probably of paying
off our student loans, so we ended up paying off
seventy eight thousand dollars of debt in two years, which
was very difficult, and I have mixed feelings about recommending
how we did it, but I talk a lot about
(02:47):
that on the show, saying that you can get the
same results without putting yourself through what I put myself through.
But in that season, I was on Facebook and saw
that this guy Eric, who I'd met at a party
one and then never talked to you again for like
seven years, was in town with his wife on a
road trip and wanted to see if anybody wanted to
(03:07):
hang out, and knowing that he did not mean me
because he did not remember who I was, but I
was like, my friends and I are going out, and
you guys are welcome to join us at this spar
at sunset. They give free shots at sunset, which is
why we were there.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I remembered it being free champagne, but it wasn't that classic.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
It was not that classy champagne.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah, yeah, tiny fruity little champagnes. And we met and
we hit it off very fast, talking about our journey.
And they were living in an RV at the time,
doing that RV lifestyle before it was cool to save
money for Jill's master's program. So we just instantly connected.
And I was blogging about personal finance, but Jill was
(03:50):
a social worker and she had like no personal finance
interests at.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
All, just living the life of right, paying attention to finances.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
So a year later, Eric, her husband, wanted to get
into producing podcasts because as a longtime music producer, he
saw that's really where a lot of audio was going.
So we decided we would just get him something in
his portfolio, and over three hundred episodes later, we've never
missed a week.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
That is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Now, you guys have such a rhythm to it and
a great rapport with each other.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Had either of you either made.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
A podcast before or been in front of the mic
at all for other projects, or is this a completely
new thing for both of you?
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Completely new for both of us, Although I will say
in my background as a social worker, I do a
lot of training, so public speaking is something I'm quite
familiar with. It's a different animal in some ways to
be on the mic in a living room just chatting
with a friend. But I think one kind of went
with the other and helped me become a better interviewer,
(04:53):
a better speaker, better on the mic without an entire
audience in front of you, which is kind of nice
and I think helps give that report where I truly
am talking to a friend. So many people will comment
about our podcast saying it sounds like you guys are
just friends and we're like we are, though it's not.
We're not just putting on a show, like once we
stop recording, we're going to keep hanging out. And so
(05:14):
I think that helps too, that we truly are friends
who get to talk and learn together. So it wasn't
a twist of my arm to do this with one
another because it only benefits me. I can learn along
the way along with our audience.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It all comes through so clearly though I know, there
are people that are pretty good at putting on a show,
but when two hosts really are friends and you can
tell there's that mutual respect and just care for each other,
it's hard to miss that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you guys do such a fantastic job with that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Have you felt the show of all over time, though,
when you're talking hundreds of episodes, like looking back to
the very beginning, is it one of those where are
like cringey.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Like, oh, when we were first doing this. How do
you feel about the evolution of the show.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Definitely, changes have happened, but I would say more ideologically
then what you're actually going to hear in the show.
If you were to go back to our very first episode,
which people said, don't worry about that first episode, no
one's going to listen to it, and then for the
longest time it was our most listened to episode. But
the formatting, the music, the segments, we had it all
(06:16):
on the very first episode all the way up to
episode three point fifteen. It's gonna sound in its rhythm
pretty similarly. But I would say, how we talk about
this idea of frugality, what we've learned along the way
in the last five years, and I think permission to
change is one of the things that we talked to
our audience and one another about all the time, that
hopefully we won't even be saying the same things in
(06:39):
five years from now that we're saying today. I don't
think we've lost the core of who we are, but
I think moving from a scarcity mindset somewhat in our
own lifestyles to this values based spending, the freedom for
how our financial life looks person to person, and the
ability to redefine brugality that it's not just clipping coupons
(07:02):
and pinching pennies, but it's actually an ability to spend
on a vacation that is luxurious if that aligns with
your value system and you have made intentional plans to
do that.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
So I would say those.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Are the things that have shifted. So sometimes where there
might be cringe is looking back at Oh I might
not have said it exactly that way, But at the
same time, I think it gives space for all of
us to recognize there's a journey and things are going
to change in our lives, and we are going to
experience different things throughout that time that might shift how
we engage with our finances.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Jem, I'm curious to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You're the author of multiple books, you're a personal finance expert,
and you know, I'm curious to know how the podcast
Cask Space feels different in terms of the way that
you communicate what maybe you're able to do through podcasting
that you couldn't do through, you know, authoring books.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
I'm lucky in that all of the writing jobs that
I've had, and then obviously with the books, I've been
able to write very much how I speak. But I
always viewed myself as a writer. I never viewed myself
as a podcaster. I was reluctant to start the podcast
at first because of that. I was like, I'm not
a public speaker. This is not my comfort zone and
(08:29):
that It wasn't until we started that I really realized,
like I love speaking first. The way that I write
is actually speaking in my head and I just write
it down. And now I get to just speak first
and speak only. But it's a great freedom, Like I
get to have a conversation with Jill, which is fantastic
because writing I always write for one person in mind
(08:50):
and try to teach them a lesson. And now I
get to do that and have a conversation with a
good friend in the same time, and she will have
insights that I I didn't have, and I will have
insights that she didn't have. And it all makes for
a better experience for the listener because no matter who
they are, we're talking to that one person. But if
(09:10):
they're resonating more with Jill's experience over mind, they get
something that I could not have provided them on my own.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
How personal do you allow the show to get in
terms of the things that you each struggle with financially
or struggle with in terms of the sort of guilty
pleasures that you might have or the ways that you'd
like to spend I'm curious to hear from you know,
maybe Jill, I'll throw to you first on that one.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
We're getting better and better at this.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Jen loves to call our lightning round the Vulnerability round.
It's interesting for me, although I am a licensed clinical
social worker and I provide therapy, and vulnerability is something
I talk about in that setting. I understand boundaries in
a very specific way, and so to recognize that this
is going out to the masses and what do I
(09:56):
want to choose to share but I think this challenge
over the last five years of a more integrated self,
which is what we talk about when it comes to finances.
It's not this half of our body over here floating
in the outer space. It's attached to our entire personhood,
and our financial life impacts our relational, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical,
(10:18):
and so it has been a good challenge for me
to be more vulnerable with protection. I'm still choosing what
I will and won't share, but we then have seen
such a warm welcome from our community with that of
thank you so much. I've been dealing with the same thing.
I didn't have language to put around it. And I
think as we see that it is helping both of
(10:40):
us to be willing to share because reality is, and
we talk about this very plainly, we're not perfect. We
don't have perfect budgets. We make mistakes along the way.
We are still coming upon our ideas about these things.
We're changing. What gen valued before having two kids is
different than what she values now after having two kids.
So I'm recognizing more and more the space that that's creating,
(11:03):
the freedom, the permissions for our audience. So it's growing
in me this ability to be more vulnerable with the
larger community.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Yeah, and I love vulnerability just for years of doing
SEO writing and how everything on the front page of
Google is so stale, it's so formulaic. But the way
people really learn is from the life experiences of other people.
And so I love that vulnerability. But obviously, like with
Jill said with protections, I don't know if she made
it up, but Nicole Walters once said, I share my scars,
(11:35):
not my scabs, So waiting until something has healed enough
to share it, but not raw enough where it's still
being processed. So that's kind of how we gauge that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
That's such a great line. Don't you want to one
day come up with a line like that where you're.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Like, God, that's so smart, right, it's a good line.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Yeah, I'm curious to hear if you've noticed the things
(12:16):
that your audience is interested in hearing or the things
that you're hearing from your audience.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Has that changed it all over the last two three
years as we've sort of been through pandemic and sort
of kind of post pandemic and now wherever we are
right now, are there trends you're noticing in terms of
the types of questions you're getting from listeners.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Yeah, so we just did a whole big fact finding
missions surveys and all that because we just got a
book deal with HarperCollins and we wanted to know from
our listeners, what are the things that you're loving hearing
from us the most. And the things we heard time
and time again was this concept of values based spending.
So a lot of listeners will come to us because
(12:57):
they're like, I know, I should probably do better with budgeting.
I should probably make an effort to like spend less.
That's kind of the iteration they think they're supposed to,
and then they'll make a budget and not stick to
it and think they're bad with money. And so that's
where we catch a lot of people. And so this
concept of values based spending is kind of catching those
people and saying the budget is not the solution to
(13:20):
spending money, and spending money is not the enemy. You know,
we make all these jokes about avocado toasts and lattes
are the enemy, and sometimes they're the hero. If you
want to go to the other end of the spectrum.
In reality, what we want most in life is often
the things money can't buy. But you still need money
to do them. So when you identify the big things
(13:41):
in life that you value and the small things, then
you can spend without guilt on those things. And when
you learn that, you're more motivated to learn the skills
and the life hacks and the boundaries and all these
things that help you say no to the things that
don't matter as much. So that is what we have
been really honing in on for the past few years,
(14:03):
is what are those things that we can teach people
to do that help them say no not to everything,
but to the things they have defined as things that
don't matter as much to me, or things other people
are pressuring me or influencing me into buying.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
How do I say no to that?
Speaker 5 (14:21):
And how do I say yes freely and have more
money to say yes to things that I really do want.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I love that approach, and just sort of generally, it
seems the approach that the two of you take where look,
it's not about guilting anyone for the way they've been
spending their money or not saving or approaching finances in general.
It's really about trying to have a better life. And
part of a better life is knowing that you've saved
some more from the future, but it's also being smart
(14:49):
about saving the money so that you can do the
things you love most.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And I really love that you take that approach and
how you think about it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And HarperCollins book deal, that's one of the biggest publishers
in the world.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
That's huge. That's awesome. Congrats.
Speaker 6 (15:01):
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Our editor was as interested in the topic as we were,
so they were very excited about it.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It's very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
And I hope Jill, you're not having to hear too
much from Jen about like, well, when I wrote my
second book.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
There might be a little bit of that, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I trust her Before I let you go.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Anything about the space now that you are, I guess
veterans in the podcast industry, anything that has surprised you
in terms of what it means to develop a long
running podcast and that interaction you have with listeners. Any
big surprises, Jill, I'll throw to you first.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
On that one.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I think the feedback that we get from people, it
still is remarkable to me because I still feel as
though I'm just talking to a.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
Friend in my living room.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I mean, now it's turned into a bit more of
an established office. But I can still often forget that
there's this whole range of people listening. While we have
an idea of the woman we're talking to. It still
is this ethereal idea. But then to receive these emails
back from people saying you nearly saved my marriage, You
(16:09):
gave me language to talk with my partner about these
things that we kept hitting roadblocks and barriers to or
I never even dreamed of paying off my debt and
I just did it in a year with the tips
and tricks that you've given to me. And I've binged
your backlog and here's the fifteen bullet points of what
is standing out to me. Of course, we've got the
(16:30):
other end of that spectrum, where people are mad at
us and they don't like how our voices sound. Can't
change that.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
That has in some ways equally been a surprise, because
I got into podcasting to help my husband. I did
not get into podcasting for people to throw firestones at me.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
But the feedback, and most of it is overwhelmingly remarkably positive,
but also to this deeper level that I never thought.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
I think we're just having fun.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
We're talking about something that, in my mind from the
field of social work is relatively lighthearted and them than
to hear you're changing my life is like.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
Whoa, whoa wow.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
I mean we're quick to say you put in the work,
you made the decisions, like it wasn't us, but so
glad to be a part of that journey and a
part of the story of people experiencing well being.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
I think what is most surprising to me is the
growth that we had. We're about to hit five million
downloads without anything but really organic traffic, honestly, and I
think it is because of how much emphasis we put
back on the listener, so like letting them decide as
many of our episode topics as possible, having the Bill
(17:39):
of the Week segment where they can call in, doing
polls and this or that on our Instagram, like just
making it as much about our listener as possible. I
think that's what's paid off most to our growth. I mean,
we got an email the other day of a girl
who's like, I've listened to your podcast for like a month,
and now any time anybody poss.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
Is a dramatic pause.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Dramatic pause, I say, the Bill of the week in
my head like we've become like earworms, And I think
that is kind of a testament to if you make
your show about your listeners, the show will grow.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
It feels like a few common traits among podcasts that
have longevity, and it's that sort of genuine connection between
the hosts, which you guys have, the sort of a
willingness to be playful and vulnerable, which you guys certainly have,
and then an intelligence. You know, everybody walks away from
an episode of Frugal Friends feeling a little bit smarter.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And so it's a good feeling to listen to an episode,
learn something, hopefully have a smile on your face, hopefully
have some next steps in terms of how you're going
to improve how you think about spending. But it's such
a fantastic show and just want to say thank you guys.
We're thrilled to be partners with you, and congrats again
on the book deal and all the success. But I
hope all of our listeners and viewers today will check
(18:59):
out Frugal Friends if you haven't already. But Jill Jen,
thanks for spending some time with us.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
Thanks Will, it's been a privilege.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, thank you, take care, and we'll see you guys
again next week.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Conversations is a production of iHeartRadio. You can find more
from the biggest names in podcasting on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
iHeartRadio presents Conversations, a weekly discussion with the biggest names
and influencers in podcasting. I want to learn the secret
Psycho rituals scrubstars Zach Braff and Donald Beson used before
Every Fake Doctor's Real Friends taping how Vice News parachutes
in the war zones to rescue journalists from life threatening situations.
For why Kegan, Michael ke and Blumhouse believe three D
(00:27):
audio is the future of storytelling. Whether you're a newbie
trying to break into the podcast game or an exec
trying to refine your playbook, conversations is the easiest way
to keep your pulse on the industry as.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello and welcome back to the iHeart Podcast Speaker series.
I'm Will Pearson, President of iHeart Podcast. One of my
favorite conversations every week when we get a chance to
chat with one or more of our creators to talk
about their podcast. Hear what they're up to, where they
see the industry going, and today feels like a very
fitting conversation. We've been having a lot of conversations around
here around budgets and around how we all spend and
(01:09):
how we all think about money, and it's something that
sometimes we're afraid to talk about, but it's the kind
of thing that's really important to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
And to be smart with our money. And we have.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Two fantastic hosts that are here to talk about their show,
Frugal Friends. It's a really fun approach to talking about
these kinds of topics. It doesn't have to always be
super stressful, and it can be the kind of thing
where you can just have a good casual conversation about it.
Jen and Jill are the best at this. So thanks
for joining us today. How are you guys doing?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Thanks so much for having us Will and that amazing intro.
We do love to say. If it's not fun, it's
not Frugal Friends. So you've got it, you understand. Yeah,
we're excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So I actually I was listening to your latest episode
and my wife is going to be excited because my
wife is a big fan of the Enneagram system and
many of her friends, as I'm sure you're hearing from
a lot of them, because she's into the whole personality
thing and learning how that applies to how we spend
money or save money or think about money was pretty interesting.
(02:13):
So maybe we'll come back to that in a second,
But it was definitely fun to hear that episode and
I sent it to her, But would love to go
back to the beginning. First of all, how the two
of you met, How the two of you decided to
start making frugal friends. Tell us how that came about.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Back in twenty seventeen, my husband and I were in
the middle or near the tail end probably of paying
off our student loans, so we ended up paying off
seventy eight thousand dollars of debt in two years, which
was very difficult, and I have mixed feelings about recommending
how we did it, but I talk a lot about
(02:47):
that on the show, saying that you can get the
same results without putting yourself through what I put myself through.
But in that season, I was on Facebook and saw
that this guy Eric, who I'd met at a party
one and then never talked to you again for like
seven years, was in town with his wife on a
road trip and wanted to see if anybody wanted to
(03:07):
hang out, and knowing that he did not mean me
because he did not remember who I was, but I
was like, my friends and I are going out, and
you guys are welcome to join us at this spar
at sunset. They give free shots at sunset, which is
why we were there.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I remembered it being free champagne, but it wasn't that classic.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
It was not that classy champagne.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah, yeah, tiny fruity little champagnes. And we met and
we hit it off very fast, talking about our journey.
And they were living in an RV at the time,
doing that RV lifestyle before it was cool to save
money for Jill's master's program. So we just instantly connected.
And I was blogging about personal finance, but Jill was
(03:50):
a social worker and she had like no personal finance
interests at.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
All, just living the life of right, paying attention to finances.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
So a year later, Eric, her husband, wanted to get
into producing podcasts because as a longtime music producer, he
saw that's really where a lot of audio was going.
So we decided we would just get him something in
his portfolio, and over three hundred episodes later, we've never
missed a week.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
That is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Now, you guys have such a rhythm to it and
a great rapport with each other.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Had either of you either made.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
A podcast before or been in front of the mic
at all for other projects, or is this a completely
new thing for both of you?
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Completely new for both of us, Although I will say
in my background as a social worker, I do a
lot of training, so public speaking is something I'm quite
familiar with. It's a different animal in some ways to
be on the mic in a living room just chatting
with a friend. But I think one kind of went
with the other and helped me become a better interviewer,
(04:53):
a better speaker, better on the mic without an entire
audience in front of you, which is kind of nice
and I think helps give that report where I truly
am talking to a friend. So many people will comment
about our podcast saying it sounds like you guys are
just friends and we're like we are, though it's not.
We're not just putting on a show, like once we
stop recording, we're going to keep hanging out. And so
(05:14):
I think that helps too, that we truly are friends
who get to talk and learn together. So it wasn't
a twist of my arm to do this with one
another because it only benefits me. I can learn along
the way along with our audience.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It all comes through so clearly though I know, there
are people that are pretty good at putting on a show,
but when two hosts really are friends and you can
tell there's that mutual respect and just care for each other,
it's hard to miss that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you guys do such a fantastic job with that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Have you felt the show of all over time, though,
when you're talking hundreds of episodes, like looking back to
the very beginning, is it one of those where are
like cringey.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Like, oh, when we were first doing this. How do
you feel about the evolution of the show.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Definitely, changes have happened, but I would say more ideologically
then what you're actually going to hear in the show.
If you were to go back to our very first episode,
which people said, don't worry about that first episode, no
one's going to listen to it, and then for the
longest time it was our most listened to episode. But
the formatting, the music, the segments, we had it all
(06:16):
on the very first episode all the way up to
episode three point fifteen. It's gonna sound in its rhythm
pretty similarly. But I would say, how we talk about
this idea of frugality, what we've learned along the way
in the last five years, and I think permission to
change is one of the things that we talked to
our audience and one another about all the time, that
hopefully we won't even be saying the same things in
(06:39):
five years from now that we're saying today. I don't
think we've lost the core of who we are, but
I think moving from a scarcity mindset somewhat in our
own lifestyles to this values based spending, the freedom for
how our financial life looks person to person, and the
ability to redefine brugality that it's not just clipping coupons
(07:02):
and pinching pennies, but it's actually an ability to spend
on a vacation that is luxurious if that aligns with
your value system and you have made intentional plans to
do that.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
So I would say those.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Are the things that have shifted. So sometimes where there
might be cringe is looking back at Oh I might
not have said it exactly that way, But at the
same time, I think it gives space for all of
us to recognize there's a journey and things are going
to change in our lives, and we are going to
experience different things throughout that time that might shift how
we engage with our finances.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Jem, I'm curious to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You're the author of multiple books, you're a personal finance expert,
and you know, I'm curious to know how the podcast
Cask Space feels different in terms of the way that
you communicate what maybe you're able to do through podcasting
that you couldn't do through, you know, authoring books.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
I'm lucky in that all of the writing jobs that
I've had, and then obviously with the books, I've been
able to write very much how I speak. But I
always viewed myself as a writer. I never viewed myself
as a podcaster. I was reluctant to start the podcast
at first because of that. I was like, I'm not
a public speaker. This is not my comfort zone and
(08:29):
that It wasn't until we started that I really realized,
like I love speaking first. The way that I write
is actually speaking in my head and I just write
it down. And now I get to just speak first
and speak only. But it's a great freedom, Like I
get to have a conversation with Jill, which is fantastic
because writing I always write for one person in mind
(08:50):
and try to teach them a lesson. And now I
get to do that and have a conversation with a
good friend in the same time, and she will have
insights that I I didn't have, and I will have
insights that she didn't have. And it all makes for
a better experience for the listener because no matter who
they are, we're talking to that one person. But if
(09:10):
they're resonating more with Jill's experience over mind, they get
something that I could not have provided them on my own.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
How personal do you allow the show to get in
terms of the things that you each struggle with financially
or struggle with in terms of the sort of guilty
pleasures that you might have or the ways that you'd
like to spend I'm curious to hear from you know,
maybe Jill, I'll throw to you first on that one.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
We're getting better and better at this.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Jen loves to call our lightning round the Vulnerability round.
It's interesting for me, although I am a licensed clinical
social worker and I provide therapy, and vulnerability is something
I talk about in that setting. I understand boundaries in
a very specific way, and so to recognize that this
is going out to the masses and what do I
(09:56):
want to choose to share but I think this challenge
over the last five years of a more integrated self,
which is what we talk about when it comes to finances.
It's not this half of our body over here floating
in the outer space. It's attached to our entire personhood,
and our financial life impacts our relational, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical,
(10:18):
and so it has been a good challenge for me
to be more vulnerable with protection. I'm still choosing what
I will and won't share, but we then have seen
such a warm welcome from our community with that of
thank you so much. I've been dealing with the same thing.
I didn't have language to put around it. And I
think as we see that it is helping both of
(10:40):
us to be willing to share because reality is, and
we talk about this very plainly, we're not perfect. We
don't have perfect budgets. We make mistakes along the way.
We are still coming upon our ideas about these things.
We're changing. What gen valued before having two kids is
different than what she values now after having two kids.
So I'm recognizing more and more the space that that's creating,
(11:03):
the freedom, the permissions for our audience. So it's growing
in me this ability to be more vulnerable with the
larger community.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Yeah, and I love vulnerability just for years of doing
SEO writing and how everything on the front page of
Google is so stale, it's so formulaic. But the way
people really learn is from the life experiences of other people.
And so I love that vulnerability. But obviously, like with
Jill said with protections, I don't know if she made
it up, but Nicole Walters once said, I share my scars,
(11:35):
not my scabs, So waiting until something has healed enough
to share it, but not raw enough where it's still
being processed. So that's kind of how we gauge that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
That's such a great line. Don't you want to one
day come up with a line like that where you're.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Like, God, that's so smart, right, it's a good line.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Yeah, I'm curious to hear if you've noticed the things
(12:16):
that your audience is interested in hearing or the things
that you're hearing from your audience.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Has that changed it all over the last two three
years as we've sort of been through pandemic and sort
of kind of post pandemic and now wherever we are
right now, are there trends you're noticing in terms of
the types of questions you're getting from listeners.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Yeah, so we just did a whole big fact finding
missions surveys and all that because we just got a
book deal with HarperCollins and we wanted to know from
our listeners, what are the things that you're loving hearing
from us the most. And the things we heard time
and time again was this concept of values based spending.
So a lot of listeners will come to us because
(12:57):
they're like, I know, I should probably do better with budgeting.
I should probably make an effort to like spend less.
That's kind of the iteration they think they're supposed to,
and then they'll make a budget and not stick to
it and think they're bad with money. And so that's
where we catch a lot of people. And so this
concept of values based spending is kind of catching those
people and saying the budget is not the solution to
(13:20):
spending money, and spending money is not the enemy. You know,
we make all these jokes about avocado toasts and lattes
are the enemy, and sometimes they're the hero. If you
want to go to the other end of the spectrum.
In reality, what we want most in life is often
the things money can't buy. But you still need money
to do them. So when you identify the big things
(13:41):
in life that you value and the small things, then
you can spend without guilt on those things. And when
you learn that, you're more motivated to learn the skills
and the life hacks and the boundaries and all these
things that help you say no to the things that
don't matter as much. So that is what we have
been really honing in on for the past few years,
(14:03):
is what are those things that we can teach people
to do that help them say no not to everything,
but to the things they have defined as things that
don't matter as much to me, or things other people
are pressuring me or influencing me into buying.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
How do I say no to that?
Speaker 5 (14:21):
And how do I say yes freely and have more
money to say yes to things that I really do want.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I love that approach, and just sort of generally, it
seems the approach that the two of you take where look,
it's not about guilting anyone for the way they've been
spending their money or not saving or approaching finances in general.
It's really about trying to have a better life. And
part of a better life is knowing that you've saved
some more from the future, but it's also being smart
(14:49):
about saving the money so that you can do the
things you love most.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And I really love that you take that approach and
how you think about it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And HarperCollins book deal, that's one of the biggest publishers
in the world.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
That's huge. That's awesome. Congrats.
Speaker 6 (15:01):
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Our editor was as interested in the topic as we were,
so they were very excited about it.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It's very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
And I hope Jill, you're not having to hear too
much from Jen about like, well, when I wrote my
second book.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
There might be a little bit of that, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I trust her Before I let you go.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Anything about the space now that you are, I guess
veterans in the podcast industry, anything that has surprised you
in terms of what it means to develop a long
running podcast and that interaction you have with listeners. Any
big surprises, Jill, I'll throw to you first.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
On that one.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I think the feedback that we get from people, it
still is remarkable to me because I still feel as
though I'm just talking to a.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
Friend in my living room.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I mean, now it's turned into a bit more of
an established office. But I can still often forget that
there's this whole range of people listening. While we have
an idea of the woman we're talking to. It still
is this ethereal idea. But then to receive these emails
back from people saying you nearly saved my marriage, You
(16:09):
gave me language to talk with my partner about these
things that we kept hitting roadblocks and barriers to or
I never even dreamed of paying off my debt and
I just did it in a year with the tips
and tricks that you've given to me. And I've binged
your backlog and here's the fifteen bullet points of what
is standing out to me. Of course, we've got the
(16:30):
other end of that spectrum, where people are mad at
us and they don't like how our voices sound. Can't
change that.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
That has in some ways equally been a surprise, because
I got into podcasting to help my husband. I did
not get into podcasting for people to throw firestones at me.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
But the feedback, and most of it is overwhelmingly remarkably positive,
but also to this deeper level that I never thought.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
I think we're just having fun.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
We're talking about something that, in my mind from the
field of social work is relatively lighthearted and them than
to hear you're changing my life is like.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
Whoa, whoa wow.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
I mean we're quick to say you put in the work,
you made the decisions, like it wasn't us, but so
glad to be a part of that journey and a
part of the story of people experiencing well being.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
I think what is most surprising to me is the
growth that we had. We're about to hit five million
downloads without anything but really organic traffic, honestly, and I
think it is because of how much emphasis we put
back on the listener, so like letting them decide as
many of our episode topics as possible, having the Bill
(17:39):
of the Week segment where they can call in, doing
polls and this or that on our Instagram, like just
making it as much about our listener as possible. I
think that's what's paid off most to our growth. I mean,
we got an email the other day of a girl
who's like, I've listened to your podcast for like a month,
and now any time anybody poss.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
Is a dramatic pause.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Dramatic pause, I say, the Bill of the week in
my head like we've become like earworms, And I think
that is kind of a testament to if you make
your show about your listeners, the show will grow.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
It feels like a few common traits among podcasts that
have longevity, and it's that sort of genuine connection between
the hosts, which you guys have, the sort of a
willingness to be playful and vulnerable, which you guys certainly have,
and then an intelligence. You know, everybody walks away from
an episode of Frugal Friends feeling a little bit smarter.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And so it's a good feeling to listen to an episode,
learn something, hopefully have a smile on your face, hopefully
have some next steps in terms of how you're going
to improve how you think about spending. But it's such
a fantastic show and just want to say thank you guys.
We're thrilled to be partners with you, and congrats again
on the book deal and all the success. But I
hope all of our listeners and viewers today will check
(18:59):
out Frugal Friends if you haven't already. But Jill Jen,
thanks for spending some time with us.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
Thanks Will, it's been a privilege.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, thank you, take care, and we'll see you guys
again next week.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Conversations is a production of iHeartRadio. You can find more
from the biggest names in podcasting on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Conal Byrne
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