Bonus

The hags are bubbling over with excitement. Jacqueline wants help with her navicular accessory foot injury, but they discuss: Werner Herzog's Grizzly Man and Cave of Forgotten Dreams, red light therapy, Bonus rooms, Buster Keaton, Tartuffe, and Best Week Ever.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm caper Land, I'm Jacqueline Novak, and this is
poog and the ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends,
two untamable intellects. This is our hobby, This is our hell,
This is our naked desire for free products. This is
today's topics. Loosely speaking, vecular accessory by Bear double Blind. Hello, Hello, Hello,

(00:25):
I want to talk about my foot today. Are you
happy about it or devastated to hear about your foot? No?
Tell me, because you were texting me some skeletal information, no, unintended.
Skeletal is a favorite word of mine to use to
describe something bare, a small amount of information. Oh, I see, okay,
that's interesting phone calls. I'll be like, I just have
this like skeletal idea. But see that's interesting because this

(00:47):
called skeletal does suggest that the bones the structure are there.
So it's actually kind of a like it's kind of
a big promise. What you're actually completely right, skeletal, Like
I have the structure of the film all three acts,
of course, a skeleton. That's so true. I've never had
a skeletal idea. I have fragments like this is the said,

(01:09):
this is the perfume that would be in the air
or that character to walk by. We can come up
with language to sort of defend that and couch that
in a way that you know, it sets you up
for excellence. But just so they're not expecting a skeleton,
you know, which is bones from head to toe right
every it's it's articulated bones, you know what I like

(01:29):
to say. I also got I was mildly distracted because
I was thinking about fossils and anyway and back kind
of bringing them into your life more. No, I don't
need them. Well I do think about I do think
about us seeing what is a cave of forgotten dreams
Werner and one of the greatest experiences in the theater

(01:51):
we were I think we're in the Sunshine Cinema. Of
course it's been leveled and now it will be a
foot locker, and then that will be levels and space
that I actually was picturing us sort of clumping towards
the doors of theater. And then it was one of
my favorite memories because so Kate's father collects Early Man

(02:12):
art in the form of stones. Okay, paleolithic stone tools, yes,
but he has something that like look like faces and stuff. Right,
we don't want to talk about it's a huge no,
I actually do. I knew I want to do. I
want to pause because I want to shout out my
dad's book and I don't know what it's called. Can
you believe that? And I didn't even know we had
a book. While you look for that, I'm going to
shout out my dad's podcast called The Cunning of Geist,

(02:35):
which I helped him start this year. It's about Hagel.
Oh my god, are you serious? It's pretty cozy to
listen to his voice. He's more prepared and what he
talks about, so you don't get to hear him saying okay,
you know like I do, which would be really cozy
for listeners. I think, okay, okay, give it to me.
But I am going to bring us back to sunshine before. Certainly,

(02:56):
I would like to briefly plug my father's book. First sculpture,
handex to your Stone. Um, when did this come out
three years ago? I guess, and you said nothing, I know,
hand access. Yeah, you know. These are objects that used
to be seen as being purely functional as tools. You'll
see them many major collections. But the idea is that No,

(03:18):
these were in fact symbolic objects, right, these were art objects.
And also, and I guess I kind of stole this idea,
maybe unfairly in my show whatever, we don't talk about that,
but taking rocks back the original curation a rock that
is found in nature as something that looks a little
bit like a woman's body, and then they carry that
back curation as art. Right, Um, well that was and

(03:40):
I should cite your father if I'm gonna you know,
please do site Tony. Yeah, no, it's pretty wild the
idea that you can actually carbon date these objects. You
can see that they were, as you said, curated, they're
brought from disparate locations to one location. Which and then
this is the key. That fact is what makes it
that it it is, you know, art or whatever, that
it's not purely functioned obviously right now and here. And

(04:02):
the reason I'm not saying it in a perfect way
and I'm about to is because you said it in
a perfect way in the movie Theater, Okay, and I'm
gonna die. I'm gonna die, okay, Okay, it's like my
favorite thing, and it honestly launched a huge sense of
like where our collaboration should ultimately lie in this life, okay. Okay.
So so we go to the Vita. We're watching Cave
Forgotten Dreams, the whole thing, and you know, they're basically

(04:23):
acting like what that that's like the first art I think, Yeah,
you're talking about I think these cave paintings and they
say that, you know, the first ones to create art
of early man were something such I forget what it was,
and you said, you leaned over to me side glance, okay,

(04:45):
and just go and just go. Actually, Homo habilius had
aesthetic sense, okay, because they were trying to act like
Homo habilis. Okay, whatever they were were commuting aesthetic sensitivity
to the next generation coorectus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those could
be wrong. With the point is you leaned over and
said Homo habilis, which like, I'm not sure I even

(05:07):
I won't lie. I probably didn't know the word. Okay.
It was like homobili had esthetic sense, okay, just leaning
over to correct Herzog was immensely gorgeous and satisfying to me.
And oh God, to be in the theater with you, God,
I miss it. God to be uh yeah, forgotten dreams
that could use a rewatch. Yeah, but it's that the

(05:29):
one I forget. Is that the one that includes the
and this is the only way I can say it,
neon lizards. I don't remember anything else. I knew you
were going to say that a different one. It's no,
that's the one. It's a really striking image. I believe
it's the very end of the film. And I can't
even remember what really it meant, exactly like I'm neon
lizard is all I have. I will say briefly I did,
and we could move on from from Herzog, but I

(05:51):
or not use. I recently did a rewatch of Grizzly Man,
and it is officially in my top five movies favorite
films of all time. God when time you watched it? Years? Okay,
but there was a period where I watched it a lot.
Now like for the listeners, of course, what I rewatched
it and I was weeping, weeping, Actually do you consider weeping?

(06:13):
Is it weeping if the tears are silently cascading and
get ready, no, no, it's no, no, no, of course,
I mean, of course that's a definition. Of course, that's
what because I think it'll weep, because like like there
needs to be like an auditory element, which is sobbing
to me. No, no, no, it's very I'm interesting weep
more than I saw because I'm sorry to bring up
my book, okay, but how to weep? This was an issue,

(06:36):
This was a question. I mean, I have a book
with the word weep in the title, and that book,
I mean, or that titles you know. I remember Jenna Friedman, comedian,
said to me, why isn't it how to cry in public?
She just sort of said that, and of course, you
know that is you know, there's an insult there, and
I accepted from her. And actually I believe she asked
me that question, like, um twice, with like six years

(06:57):
in between, like the same question occur. I don't even believe.
I don't think she's been thinking of the whole time,
because that doesn't feel as much like her. I think
she spontaneously went why weep? You know, cry is stronger
and more direct and whatever. But to me, weep is
comical because it's um a feat it's not the right
word so poetic. Yeah, and so it's sort of outrageous.

(07:17):
So so anyway, but yeah, to me, weeping is kind
of that is kind of a silent um. I mean
much like a weeping wound. You know that metaphor, A
weeping wound isn't screaming weep. I would also argue as
a more feminized term. Yes, crying kind of feels like
also attributed to babies. Weeping suggests emotion, right, like, babies

(07:39):
cry a little bit, a little bit of drama because
it is we're leaning and you know, sort of leaning
into that, all right, Jesus pull me back, so so
so okay. So Grizzly for the people that I don't
know is one of Werner herz Um documentaries, and it's
about Grizzly man. Wait, I feel like I have the
wrong name. Timothy Treadwell. What's that I got it? Yeah? Um,

(08:04):
he's a man that lived with the grizzlies, right, yes,
or at least you go out there every summer and
sort of commune with the grizzlies. Everyone thought he was
crazy and to be clear, in the end, yeah, hey,
don't go to the end. You don't think that's part
of the truth. Everyone knows we've all heard the tape.
But it's um, you have not heard the tape. That's

(08:25):
a joke, right, No one's heard the tape. So this
is what I want to there's no store here. He's dead, okay,
and he died by Okay, he died by Baron. I
think that's the selling point. You can know that, Like,
that's the thing. You know, it doesn't matter what happens,
no matters how it happens. Right, you can listen to
this not knowing that and still be completely thrilled by
the film. It's not it's not about the surprise that

(08:46):
that he dies. It's the inevitability exactly. And then, in
an utterly stunning kind of filmmaker sort of the filmmakers
in the film kind of thing, verner, there's a tape.
There's audio tape because Timothy tread Will filmed himself all
the time. Why am I educating? What is this tone? Okay?
Like and um so, Timothy t you know what this

(09:08):
feels like? I feel like I'm a talking head in
like any of those like not even just best week ever,
but like he I knew you were gonna okay, any
of those where I'm like, we're like they've got they've
put it into my mouth best week ever? No, I
mean yeah, it's the whole, It's the whole thing, right,
we will not mean the best Week ever launched many friends.
I would dry, I weep for best Week ever. I
appreciate best Week ever. That was a huge moment and

(09:31):
it employed countless comedians. What I'm saying employed countless. This
is technically they weren't countless because I didn't get on
the show. Yeah, that's true. Right, So it wasn't a
circulating carousel of it. Yeah, no, I feel like I'm
doing that when I'm like, so grizzly man, uh so

(09:55):
at the end, towards the end whatever, there's tape existing,
but please break it. And this is so strange, but
I wanted to say, there's the best Week ever joke,
but I probably think about twice a year from which
is crazy. Yeah. Yeah, And I don't remember who said,
of course I cannot contributing. I want to say it
was Christian Finnegain. I bet it was. Okay. So they're

(10:16):
talking about The Secret, yes, as in the film that
was released from the documentary was released alongside The Secret,
and they're talking about how in the Secret they say
like if you have cancer, like watch Charlie Chaplin film,
laugh and like laugh the cancer out, or like you know,
and then Christian Finn again was like, if you laugh
at a Charlie Chaplin movie the Cancer, we'll leave your
body out of embarrassment. Oh my god, I love it.

(10:41):
Better be a Christians not the idea. Imagine like go
falling in a Chaplin film, because here's what's embarrassing. I
pretended to do that when I was eighteen years old,
and I was like, I'm actually more of a katon head,
you know, was like it was like a Buster Keaton.
I was like, chaplain, I you know, it's Katon all
the way. No, me as a young girls saying the
same about roy be Young Freud and I'm a young Yeah,

(11:02):
well please tell you start but some time, I mean obviously,
but every mentioned I have to go deeper into Freud
because I lost a lot of it now I'm so young, young, young,
But I remember being, you know, at a screening for
Sherlock Jr. The Buster Keaton film, and which is which
is little to me, I'm about to go, which is great?
Who cares? It is great? But who cares? But right

(11:25):
he actually broke his neck making it, which is a
wild little maybe it'll end up in a great show
called Cursed Films. Do you ever see that. But I
just remember laughing, being in the audience laughing a k A.
Pretending to laugh. Well, for example, to impress my older
cinema teacher just held up Charlie Chaplin my autobiography, Where's

(11:48):
my Sherlock, Where's my my Buster Keaton autobiography? And this
is this is the thing. This is like when I've
when I continue to buy copies of Tartuf. Okay too,
but at second hand bookstores, like convinced, like you know,
like like reading early um like comedies. Okay, I like, oh,

(12:09):
like I'm going to have this sort of bedrock of
ancient comedy knowledge. You know, I'm not going back eighties, folks,
I'm going back you know, that's where were we. So
you're saying, you're saying buying copies of Tartuff. Yeah, I'm
done with that. I'm so grizzly, man, can we I
just want to get it clear about what occurs. Okay.
So he always taped himself and video camera and these

(12:31):
you know, he was alone. He would go alone for months.
It would just be alone with the bears and his
video camera, and he captured some truly incredible footage, not
just of the bears, but of himself encountering them and
living there in other animals. They're such beautiful footage. I mean,
I hadn't seen it in years, and I was quite
swept to foxes in a hole. Yes, Jack, when the foxes, No,

(12:52):
there's foxes being The foxes are the star of Grizzly
Man in my opinion. The foxes are so sweet and
it's just very it's very worry. There's a lot going
on in it. It's just great. But when he finally
is killed by a grizzly bear, you know, his camera
falls to the side. I don't know if there's any
video of it, but there's certainly because he was with
his girlfriend told of course she oh right, yeah, wait,

(13:16):
she was there. Oh she was there. They were both
mauled by grizzly Bearris wait, I am scum. She a woman? Well, no,
you're not. From the memories following the narrative of the
prevailing narrative. I mean, not that she's ignored in the film,
but it's it's about because he's the one that led

(13:37):
the brigade. She was there, Yeah, she was there. She
actually I believe encountered him being slaughtered by a bear.
Like she like came upon him being and so she's
like and there's so what happens to the camera falls aside.
The lens cap is on, but was captured as the
horrifying audio of them both being murdered. Not murdered, bears

(13:57):
don't murder if they just do not show it in
the film. Instead, instead, brilliantly, they don't include the audio,
but they simply show hurt Zog listening to the audio.
I was gonna say, no, it's it's I was gonna say,
like a stunning you know, it's a sort of stunning ego,
kind of like that. The climax of the film is

(14:17):
the filmmaker listening to audio and weeping. Yeah he's not weep, Okay,
not even a single tear No, I thought, oh, absolutely tearless. No,
I think right, I think he was almost to weep.
Would have been a bit much because he's in front
of people, right, He's in front of family who's never listened.
He's in he's in front of Timothy's ex girlfriend who
never listened. Right, yeah, but she she holds the tape.

(14:40):
He's promised, but you'll never listen to this, and she's like,
I promise you must never listen to this God. The
man knows how to do a gravity toss. I know,
the way he talks about nature as being you know,
it's not that I forget which film of his he
talks about the rainforest is being pornographic and the unfinished
work of God. It's like so brilliant or something. He
talks about it being like the rainforce is being unfinished,

(15:03):
which is so that's interesting in the sense that it's
like this sort of it's lush and wild, it's it's unpolished. No, No,
the idea of like the churning fornication of the rainforest,
and that it's like the fornication and it's separate from
I mean ideally separate from human intervention, right, And it's
like this just visually, this kind of matrix of nature

(15:27):
that's unfinished and can never be finished because it goes
on forever. Oh, it's burden of dreams, in which he
talks so weird to documentaries that both end in the
word dreams. You can't do that. Data has broken in
to say that one is about him and one is
by him. And that's just a great example of the
power of a preposition. You know, the difference between behying
about right there anyway, So I do want to talk

(15:49):
about my foot. We got to grizzly man, right, we
can't just say briefly because you were talking about us
in the East Village going to the cinemas, right, And
I was yesterday thinking about my youth and how my
own nostalgia for you know, Kim's video, right, like I
had an actual I had an actual membership at Kim's video,
or just going to record stores and being convinced that

(16:11):
I would fall in love. I was like, I was like,
if I got to booktoff, I got a record store,
like I'm going to fall in love among the stacks,
so you'll glance over and it'll be like it'll be like,
oh you also like I mean that kind of stuff
that was such a vital part of my my life.
I feel like being that love would be falling mortars
to fall in love right right, right, right right, Let

(16:31):
me think about that, right um, trying to think if
I've ever had a positive interaction in a brick and
mortar with with a person, you know what I mean,
like ever like happened in one Because you know, I
love to glance and make eye contact and say like,
can you believe the hell? Oh, I'll tell you my
CBS story one time, I mean, and by one time,
I mean after the break. Okay, see you back, see

(16:54):
you back adds time. Baby. By the way, you know,
I should say as we roll back from the ads.
You know, ads run on this network that have nothing
to do with our We don't produce them. There's been
some complaints about and not the ones with us, other

(17:16):
ads that are no So I got a text from
a friend being like, you know, there's an ad for
a fish just like a kind of fish, which I
was like, well, that's great, that's very crazy. But you know,
beta fish they kind of have that shredded look, almost
said a wet fish. It was like a like a
flaky white fish. Oh to eat to eat that that

(17:38):
I assume is not, you know, an over fished variant. Right, anyway,
you're going to tell me a CBS story. I'm excited.
That's just one of my strong memories of sort of
the horror of the fact that if you're on antidepressants,
particularly trying to start out on them, or you're not
on the right ones yet, the fact you have to
haul your depressed ass to the to the CBS and
work through the gauntlet of that and in insurance issues.

(18:00):
I mean, it's just it's astonishing that, you know, it's
I guess like in general, the fact that you have
to go to pick up medication for any element is
like wrong, they have delivery now right, Well they do, yeah,
but just sort of the the original It is an indignity.
So standing in TVs, I recall one time in the
East Village of Manhattan there was a long line and
the pharmacist was one of the most outrageous things I

(18:21):
ever saw. He was just he's so frustrated. He's Walter.
Ten people in line O case Walter and like, you know,
doing his business back there, and he just goes, okay,
He's like okay, it keeps making sounds like that and
frustrated sounds, and then he just goes, I'm I'm gonna
freaking kill myself. Is that that? No? Is that not

(18:45):
a dreadible and you're getting your well beatrad Yeah, that's amazing.
Um No. But I I was determined to talk about
my foot a little bit today because I need to
help with listeners. I really do. Okay, yeah, let's do it.
Let's do outreach. I was in a comedy club two
years ago, I don't know whatever, and there's a little
step in the back of the room. I'm waiting to
go on stage. There's a little you know, raised area,

(19:06):
and then I'm heading to stage and I'm wearing heels,
you know, chunk heel. I mean something you know you'd
expect from me, a little something. Yeah, and I walk,
walk walk. It's dark because it's a theater, and suddenly
I'm falling. Okay, Oh I've been introduced, Jack L. Novak. Okay.
So I'm walking from the back of the club to
the front, okay, and smile on your face. Yeah, and

(19:28):
I fall And it's because the rope light that delineated
where the step was without So a rope light is
like a strand of you know, l eds for example,
inside of a case rubber in plastic, sheer plastic, creating
kind of a glow like a sausage. Yeah, sausage of light.
And okay, sorry, So so fall hurts head to the stage.

(19:55):
No one saw I have to go back to the fall.
So suddenly you're falling dark. So it's like, you know,
when you don't see a step, there's no step and
suddenly you okay, the feeling of I mean there is
a step where you don't believe there is one, okay,
and then down you go. And it was a like
ankle turn in the heel, but it wasn't outer ankle,
and it wasn't exactly inner ankle. It was what I

(20:18):
then through research, and you know, I love to look
inside the body, discovered was likely a navicular accessory, which
is a slush bony slash cartilage piece that some people,
like ten percent people have on the inside of their foot.
It's like an extra kind of little bone slash cartilage, okay,
and you can kind of not have problems with it
until you do or to an injury where it gets
inflamed and then it hurts all the time. So sort

(20:40):
of limping out of there. But I'm thinking, like, if
this were real, it's not like it's a break, it's
not like it's a fracture. Would you gas? You screamed?
You say, fun what I'm kind of just stunned because
there's the adrenaline of like heading towards the stage, and
so I'm so stunned. I hop back up, of course,
keep making my way to the stage and even though
no one saw I, you know, be authentic sort of

(21:01):
transparent artist. Yes, I immediately told them, okay, I just
fell okay, you know, and well, anyway, so I felt
it hurt. Okay, I sort of limp out of there.
I think it's going to get better. And then for
the last two years, you know, if I walk for
ten minutes any any extended whatever, it starts to hurt

(21:23):
and it gets to kind of a point of limping.
And I did go check it out, and they said
there's no fracture. It's the navicular accessory. They told me
to get the orthotics that they recommend. I hate when
you when you haul as same thing hauling asked to
a place like I go to a doctor that's like
unheard of okay for me, and the X ray whatever,

(21:43):
and it's just like I'm walking out of there with
a prescription that's not a prescription. It's just like them
writing down fleet feed in Glendale or whatever, and in
the name of some orthotics or whatever it or just inserts.
I oh, I get them. I get some A six
and I find no relief. Okay, So we need a
foot doctor. I need a foot doctor, and I need
someone who knows specifically, but accessory in naviculars, and I

(22:05):
need someone who I've got someone for you, hunt, Really,
I got two people right here on top of my
head who I mean, don't have to say her name,
but I guess you do well, right, Well, we don't
want all the other innavicular accessories running out and getting
an appointment before me. But I suppose we could do
it before. The episode about Susan Tom Great physical Therapists
on the West Side deals with the ballet Okay, works
directly with ballerina's, so she's going to know a lot

(22:27):
about feet. She will know. She'll know because Timber some
of those ballerinas probably having a vicular accessories exactly. I
read something and I don't feel like researching a game
because it was a long path to get there. But
I read something about like inserting someone getting a shot
in their foot of bone meal or whatever, like like
bone marrow or something or like or like something or plasmas.

(22:48):
I forget what the deal was, but like it sounded
like radical healing. Obviously, I'm laying it on my red path,
I mean my red light path led panel. Okay, nightly,
do we need to do a huge Lightpath episode. Well,
it's become huge for me. We've mentioned it previously, but
now I'm at a twice a day thing and I've
been doing yoga in front of it nearly nude. Okay,

(23:08):
oh my god, why nearly? Why not just full news
because I don't really need like my like volva like
scraping against my unwashed yoga mat, whereas I welcome it
daily you do yoga. I was doing it completely naked, truly,
because I was like, I don't want to wear workout
clothes and then clean them, Like that's the huge reason

(23:29):
I won't work out is the laundry, right, you know,
it's another thing. You know. It's huge, by the way,
because you've talked about the issue of working out and
how can anyone work out? It takes an entire day
right between the preparations. I mean, particularly you're going anywhere,
but even if you're not, one of my quick gifts
is and this is this is like high level. Okay,
most people you know, I mean, and I mean high

(23:51):
level meaning desperate Okay, I guess or whatever. You know,
like you only do this if you're really desperate, and
it's a little bit of like a depression thing. But
the only way to get me to work out sort
of for thing in the morning is to go to
bed in the workout close. The only way to get
me to workout in the morning is to go to
bed in the workout close. You just roll right out, Okay,
I don't want to be in the morning. Is there
any greater hell than pulling a sports brawn over your head?

(24:12):
But you want to band your head is forever trapped,
wrangled permanently. But wait, sleeping in tight clothes, that's awful. Well,
I haven't done this in a while, okay, particularly because
now I'm basically doing the exercise in underwear. It's not
like I really need that. And I've basically also been
sleeping in sports bras to try to protect the skin

(24:36):
of the bus. What do you mean to keep your
tips from being dragged across the mattress? No, from hanging free? Okay,
when they hang free at night, than gravity is pulling
on them to the skin. Whatever. So I'm just trying
to It's it's the same as all the other stuff,
you know, Like, No, that's it. That's why I won't lie. Good,
I wouldn't. I wouldn't want you to, Okay, I gotta support,

(24:58):
I gotta and and and yeah. But anyways, start been
doing it nearly nude blasting under the light, and very
excited about that. However, you know, this is the the
only technical trade off to some and I don't think
I love it. Okay, is the red light causes more
hair growth. Okay, now that's a benefit if you want

(25:19):
to stick your head in it and get like thicker
and whatever. And again I'm not stopping to say supposedly,
I'm not stopping to say allegedly, that's a time. Okay,
we're talking about the product claims. You do your disbelieving
on your own time, folks. But yeah, the studies, you know,
the hair last whatever, it's pretty impressive. And I mean
literally three thousand peer reviewed studies about red light. So

(25:41):
and I will say, I sent the red light stuff
over to my uncle, who's very conservative, you know, medically. Yeah,
but he's you know, very entrenched in western and he
at first kind of laughed, He's like, let me look
at this, and then he came back the next hours later,
Actually it looks pretty good. That's what I'm talking about.
That thrills men excited me because I was like, if

(26:02):
Jeff's on the case. There's something here, you know, Jeff.
Dr Jeff Rocky. Mountain Vet uses a television show I
really enjoy and I'm watching on Discovery Plus. Yes, I
subscribe to Discovery Plus. If you can imagine, I take
all the pluses and he uses red light in the
vet practice and they're not around there. They are a
also an animal. You can't placebo, hon, Yes, I mean,

(26:24):
unless your own prayer is affecting them, I guess, but
it's hard to say, and they're probably very receptive. Animals
are highly receptive to keep in mind. That's why double
blind placebo is a thing. What's double doubles real one
versus the not real one that's affecting that, I mean,
welcome to metaphys God damn energy and consciousness. So that's

(26:51):
just crazy. Oh no, if it is broken in to
say that it's not double blind, where the doctor from praying,
you know what I mean? His consciousness affecting the double
blind means that her consciousness that the recipient doesn't know
if what they're getting is is the the real medicine

(27:13):
or the placebo. But that's blind. No, double blind means
more than that, because that's the donstin doesn't know if
they're giving placebo or the real medicine. So if they're
handing the sugar pill and not viewing the sugar pill
with the medicinal properties, that's what fad is trying to say.
Isn't what it's about. But I believe what I mean is, Okay,
the consciousness. If you're deliver a sugar pill behind it,

(27:38):
it's because they're worried that they're conscious bias will skew
them towards logging symptoms or improvements that they associate with
the medicine include my audio. Okay, okay, listen, listen, listen.
But I would say that we have discovered nonetheless, I'm
fascinated by this. I like, yeah, the stowing of the

(28:00):
sugar pill with medicinal intention. Well, I brought it up
a thousand times before. I know, I love to say it,
but there's there were studies where even when people know
that it's a placebo still works. I mean they even um,
they were like these things they did where I'm gonna
I'm gonna do my placebo research offline and I'm gonna
come back hard. Okay, I don't kind of hard on

(28:22):
everybody here. No, but I do believe that the bias
in consciousness would have an effect. Okay, I mean, I mean,
you know, ever heard of quantum entanglement? Sorry okay, but
nothing separate. And by the way, I just want to
quote my favorite Dr Fred allen Wolfe, Dr Quantum, who
says in the Secret, as you mentioned earlier, I believe

(28:42):
it was in the Secret, Maybe it was. What the bleep,
It's a whole other issue anyway, But anyway, it just says,
this isn't some imaginary craziness that as I always think
about as a great clip, I'll be putting it on
the boogainst. So what's this? What's this? They're saying? For
every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. Wait, what

(29:05):
you mean basic? That's standard physics. That's standard physics, Tony
in physics, dermodic that's the case. Here's the thing, yes,
but here's the thing. Here's the thing. Okay, okay, here's
the thing about And again I'm speaking from what I
think I know physics. Are you ready? Okay? So Tonian physics,

(29:28):
you know the stuff you learned in high school? Actually
did you learn that? I feel like, for some reason
I don't recall you learning physics featuring featuring you at
a at a clay. You didn't go, but you went.
Did you go to a school that substituted clay for math?
You know what I mean? Like my wish because like

(29:49):
artist parents, etcetera. I just you know, I went to
like a tragically academic school. But then I was I
could never get above like a g I was like,
you know, it was a big deal. I gotta se
minus and math. It was a huge deal. Fight to
the nail to go to see minus. That's so sweet,
you fighting nail. Wait, We're gonna go a second. But
I want to say about physics. I just want to say,

(30:09):
and I'm gonna find it for a future episode. I
remember me on airplane reading about this little physics book
and again feeling like the glory of Christ enter me.
Was like a religious experience because I was somehow able
to grasp the connection between temperature and timest thing about
the way molecules interact cool down. There's one idea that
time is just um heat and entropy, like it's whatever.

(30:33):
But I wanted to say one thing Newtonian physics, all right,
And then I'm speaking out of whatever, okay my own self,
but my understanding is that Newtonian physics works on particles
and matter that is on you know, that's big. Still
when you when you get to the quota which make
up the larger things, that Newtonian physics no longer applies. Okay,

(30:56):
I mean I will come one day with the quantum
physics and notes that we need to do a physics
episode because there's a lot there I want to say,
because I'm a little distracted, but I think I want
to bring it into the poog the poog world, which
is that we've been talking a little bit about organization, organization, right,
getting rid of things. I've been doing that in my home.
How I can be so seduced this and this is

(31:18):
exactly what I'm trying to get past. It becomes an
urgency in me. I need a new lamp. Now, I
need a new lamp that's also cannot there's no time
now and not now, there's no It's an urgency, right.
So it's like I'm looking at there's two lamps in
my home I hate, and then they know I hate them.
Now the whole nation knows about about Okay, So then

(31:41):
I was desperate, right, I'm looking on online, you know.
I'm like, I'm not spending on the lamp, you know,
go to hell. So I'm finding on an offer up
that website. And by the way, I felt panic when
you joined offer up okay, because I knew another shopper
is going to come in. Okay. I'm like, Jesus, I
got more competition because I already have one friend. We
gotta go to go. I mean, so I bought a
couple of chairs and offer up. I'm thrilled, but I bought. Yeah,

(32:04):
they're they're gorgeous chairs. Their guard and curious. I don't
even want to know. I'll send you a pick later.
But listen, the lamp is the issue. Here a floor lamp. Okay,
there's a floor lamp. It's on, it's posted, it's fifty dollars.
The woman's telling me it's in mint condition. It's kind
of a bamboo retan thing. I leap, I buy it,

(32:25):
and I got condition, all right. I buy it. The
next day, I drive to a part of Los Angeles
that's like down by the railroad track. It's like an
actual railroad. It was like cargo being loaded onto a
fucking train. And I'm there with my mas. Boyfriend brings
it out, loaded into the back, take it home. I go,

(32:47):
did I just buy a I plug at it. I
can't tell. So then of course I push it onto
my mother, right, I send her a picture. I send you,
I said, external and funny, you know that you didn't
get the pick. I didn't get John early, John got it.

(33:07):
But listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. I decided. I decided.
You know, I'm gonna do decide for myself. I'm not
going to farm it out to everyone. But by the way,
here I am. I'm gonna post it on poog Instagram
and have people tell me if it's if it's a
toss or a keep. Don't give them do not. We
have to go want to she will do it. Believe
this it's going on. I'm gonna put it on the

(33:28):
poog Instagram and the listeners will decide if it stays
or if it goes. I have to tell you lately,
I'm leaning stay a whold choice. Though when you see it,
you're gonna scream. Okay, I don't know. I guess you
should see some of the things I've purchased now. I
also want to just be really clear before we leave. Yeah,
that's really clear. I've noticed that sometimes, you know, we'd
we're having conversation about lamps on here and everyone on

(33:49):
the on the on the poogins, they come flying, okay,
and I gotta lamp for you. I need lamps to
people just just because I'm letting keeps take up the lamp.
You know, don't don't know miss o Kate wants this.
I actually want to say. A pook listener found me
a coffee table someone sweet Sure, let's give them an ad.
They didn't give me a free one sweetie. In fact,

(34:10):
DM them directly said, oh, I've been looking for a
coffee table via my podcast, and they were like, oh great.
But I was like, and then then I didn't have
the strength to go, how mout you give it to
me for free? And then we kind of deal. Do
you reached out and didn't say it about me when
I was an organic I'm the one who brought up
coffee table search for the last seven years. They weren't
going to give me the coffee table. If they had

(34:32):
they had suggested, oh, we're going to give you a
coffee table, of course wasn't in the plant. Okay, you
can need to include me before. Don't let them except
give it to you and then add me once they
got you, because then it makes it hard on them.
We got to I just want to say the ads
that we don't produce. So so if you complain about
the hot mics, I just want to say about this lamp.
In a certain context, this lamp could look like lamp

(34:53):
of course they could make. You could bring someone to
their nies more hideous context. This looks like what it is,
fifty dollars, but it looks like a pure one import
like horrifying spa lamp that you go and you get
a staff infection, you know, getting something done? Is anyone
getting staff infections anymore? All right, let's go to the
break and we'll talk about I got a staff infection

(35:14):
as a teenager. Staff infections anymore? Do you shower in
public um places without flip flops? You know a gym?
I have done that. Yeah, tell them about the flip flop, Yeah,

(35:37):
the flip flip flops. Just for me, running across the
top of your flip flop is like a little like weird, right,
believe there was a time that I am sorry this,
I'm just flashing back to a dorm I had where
there were two coffin apologized often size showers, you know
the coffin where they're up right, And it was a

(35:58):
co ed dorm one bathroom on the lore with a
plastic shower curtain that would stick to your body because
the open window bathroom co ed and me horrified. How
did I ever like imagine me eighteen years old going
into the bathroom a little baby walking twent flip flops
down the hall. Is a classic sort of collegiate kate

(36:20):
for did that? I think everyone would assume that you're like,
this is the first thing that came to mind. Shower catty, No,
I was going to bring up the shower caddy. Shower
catty is the most like family feud, like number one,
like what do you need to get to go to college?
Like what's the typical one? Okay too, I mean twin
Actually one would probably twin extra long sheets, extra long

(36:43):
yeah anyway, so yeah, yeah, they people like decorating their
college dorms, like do you ever see like I don't
even a target or something? Right? Carget always features this
like back to school time where they've got these where
they got the stuff for the dorm and it's like,
you know, it's like a purple bull. It's in board, okay,
And they're like like a cube storage ottoman or whatever.

(37:04):
I always think like they're going to be cheaper because
they're like for teens or whatever, and then the price
is still is still full on, but like I don't know,
it's like pottery bart and for kids. You can go
into the kids section and get like that's the classic.
I always think I'm gonna geah, I'm gonna get the
couch that's supposed to be in the bonus room. Are
you familiar with this concept? You would be if you
watched Love It or Listed and other house related shows

(37:25):
like that. If there's a room like without a window, no,
without egress, they can't call it a bedroom. What's that
way to safely exit? Anyway? Bonus rooms couches, so they're
called bonus rooms code wise, they're not allowed to call
them a bedroom, okay, And so there and then I
just I'm tired of these people. They're always like and

(37:45):
we want a bonus room, and I just like find
the term bonus rooms deeply uninspiring, like repulsive, like bonus.
I actually find the word bonus pretty disgusting. And I
think I know I know why, we know why. I mean, there,
we know why, right, sure, But it's like the combination
of penis, thank you theta that's the literal answer, but

(38:09):
not penis. No. Yeah, I merely heard the paradox of
the simultaneity. Well, I heard penis first and then thought
penis bow. Okay, we got something here, boner um. I
don't you know what I don't like about words that
go bow? Okay, there's a sort of a of an arcing.
There's because you're of an arcing. Okay, it's like like
what else? Well, bot No, I don't mind that because

(38:32):
the roundness closes at the end. It closes around Okay,
it's like the bun It's like, I mean, it's really
like bus bungeness. I mean, I don't mind Beauregard Bo
Bo Biden or whatever. Wait, Bo Biden might have to
go because both is Bo. Do you know who Bo

(38:53):
Biden is? Bo was the one who died of a
brain tumor jocolin No, No, the reason who was like
it was like who was like, Oh I have a
quick Boe Biden anecdote, which is that my I remember
texting with my mom when Bob what's his fucking name
Joe Biden was announcing that he was going to run
for president, and I was like, just what we need

(39:15):
and then my mom was like his son said run dad,
oh right, you know, and then died and that was
enough for my mom to secure, right, just that family story, Dad, run.
I want to say that Greg Whiteley, one of the
finest documentarians of our time, Mitt the documentary I Met Robbie.
Everyone should here, folks. Wait, oh, but the no, the

(39:40):
reason I said the boot my bow alone, it's just
like bones um, It's like, it's like really disgusting. But think,
can you just give me one other word other than bonus?
Hearing you repeat it back perfectly perfectly? Okay, to be

(40:00):
one other whatever. Let me try to think, because like
I think it might just be the boner penis of
it that that got me into and so then I'm
sort of I mean, it's Rosby in her name. You know,
it's a classic question for me, Okay, whether the meaning
is influencing my experience of the sound or do you

(40:20):
ever Okay, I actually never mind, this is too I
was about to just truly be like languages are like, Oh, okay,
who was it? Okay, hang on, hang on, so it's
gonna be worth it. I swear to God shine. Who
was it that called? Like the invention of like the
what's the alphabet that we use called? Oh, the um?
Don't say don't say it theta. I know you know, okay,
producer data, but I want to I want to like

(40:41):
pull it. I want to pull it. Okay, don't say it,
Kate when you get it, don't say this is better
not be another wolf jackman. Okay, don't say no, No,
I'm not gonna say it. And I've heard that before.
I've heard that before, right, hold on, are not the
word that's popping to my Roman numerals? Okay? Okay, And
it's not the cyrillic alphabet for example, it's the not

(41:03):
the Roman alphabet, not the Greco Grecian. I got it,
and you didn't say it, and I'm not saying it. Congrats, alright,
give me the first letter. Oh wait, I lost it again?
Oh you had it in your head? Yeah? Were you
about to say alpha numeric? Because no, sweetie, because that
doesn't mean anything, and it just was gonna fly into
it sounds like it sounds like a Latin word. I think, wait, okay,

(41:26):
so it's not in the fuck Roman. I'm stuck on Roman. Sorry,
who cares? I mean there's listeners who know and they're
and they're screaming, and I actually like to give that
a lot of people care. But listen, THEATA just suggested
it might be Phoenician, but that that if it is,
that damn okay, So but listen, I'm gonna say it again.

(41:46):
I have just like a fragment of information here as usual.
But I think it was Marshall mcluhin, who talks about
the media is a message Sorry c D. Yeah, that guy.
He talks about that being like the single most like
is went and upsetting thing that was ever created because
of the way limited thought right, I mean, which is

(42:08):
class about language limits thought right, language creates and confines experience.
Blah blah blah. But that idea of the alphabet as
being as being a violence upon the mind because because
it's you can't make words without the alphabet, right, So
the the alphabet the knives. The alphabet is the initial
knife cutting up you know, amorphous experience. But also you

(42:29):
can't perceive without language. And this is once again we
arrive at you know, the paradox of living. You must
trade you know, the transcendent in favor of the lesser divided.
And you know we must not beauty there. And that's
why we look for beauty and language, don't we care? Yeah,
well we have to or else what the hell else
are we gonna do? Just like be a body? I mean,

(42:51):
that's I guess the the answer is to be a
body body in the street. Language and body are are
the same thing. They limit the transcendent. That's like the
only that's like my primary confining experience. Yes, they's a
primary metaphor for me, is that language in the body
are the same. Okay, so the bonus room. And also

(43:11):
I believe it's proms. I was walking by, I was
on a walk, and I was looking at houses, you know,
just on on my walk as I often do, dreaming
of the lives within, you know, wishing I could do
a house tour. Oh yeah, what would my life be
like if I lived there? You know? That's why I
want to astral project. Primary reason for us for projecting,
I want to SMEs near me. Absolutely absolutely, John Earle

(43:36):
and I actually have to say once how to absolutely
transcendent experience where I will say we were coming down
off mushrooms, but they were still kind of in us,
going on a gorgeous walk constantly, you know, googling at
home so wow, you know, And it happened. We actually
were able to secure a home tour. We were looking
at a house. Your house is gorgeous, yelling it out.
We asked for a home tour and she said yes,

(43:58):
and she took us into her home and we got
a full home tour. It was then it was absolutely transcendent.
Were there any moments where You're like, they've they've nabbed us,
this is a trick from you. No, it was. It
was heaven, no fear. Those two women who lived together
for four hundred and sixty two years, and they were

(44:19):
amazing their backyard everything. I believe John went back for
a cocktail weeks later. I was out of town and
I say believe, but I know for a fact that
he did. But it was no. Home tours are the
primary reason to be alive. I want them constantly. Oh,
but I was thinking, I was walking around looking at
the homes that I was describing, I was like, I

(44:41):
don't like the houses are but a little spaces. But
I'm like, that's what a house is. I don't want
just the pure open floor plan. Oh do I know,
Well I was gonna say that's the other thing. I
love it or listed is they all I mean, it's
like a joke, but they all want to quote open
concept kitchen. Literally they all do. Okay, Um, every single
homeowner wants an open concept kitchen. Okay. And it's like

(45:04):
it's like, let me get I mean, it's not even
letting let it get me, Chris, watch it together. We
don't even look at each other. I'll save your marriage time.
We'll save it. And they want to keep an eye
on the kids while they're cooking or whatever. It's just like,
I don't know, it's a humiliation. It's a humiliation like
they see it on the show. They want it for themselves,
keeping up with the Jones is it's um. But so
an open concept kitchen, to be clear, okay, is when

(45:26):
the kitchen kind of just flows right into the living
room or the family room or whatever. It's not like
there's not like a little door into the kitchen and
now you're in this room. There is no door. The
doors and and and I mean I live in the
most unopened concept kitchen situation right now, and I love it.
I love it kitchen something they won't. But when they're

(45:51):
furiously whipping eggs into a frenzy, like there's something about
that privacy of the of the kitchen. Um they kind
of well, do you remember the old the motif of women?
It wasn't for me? Wait what wait? What if it
was simultaneous monologs? What if food? What if food was

(46:12):
simultaneous talk? Okay, we talk and are saying her own ideas.
They're crossed. And then you separately download the individual tracks
and it's a three partner um, including the crosstalk version,
you know, but I love the cross like version. That's
the only one I listened to. Okay, Crosstalk by name
of like a fox like news, what's crosstalk? They're like

(46:32):
Tonight at nine? No, no, totally, totally, um a cross fire,
cross fire, right, and then hard Ball because I remember
those parody cross balls. Um so, so I love satire.
My favorite thing is I love satirical works. Oh, in parody, parody.

(46:54):
This is a character loves satire and parody. You know,
but you know, people always break in, you know, what
people always they're bringing up parody law, which is that
if it's a parody, it's not copyright infringement something like that. Yeah, exactly,
it's protected by the law. So you're like free speech,
give me the boys to free myself. Okay, you're you're

(47:15):
parodying that song. And that's if god, if your if
your cover has a rude, if your cover of a
song has a rude, sarcastic voice, weird olsh canon of
that of that principle. Yeah, my god, all right, I am.
My heart is pounding from the laughter. You know, I
just I can't tell you. I feel nerves in my

(47:36):
stomach knowing you're on offer up. It's not a competition. Listen,
well quite literally, by the way, I sent you side
of drawers for those listening. Offer up is a by
the way, high offer up. I guess, I guess there's
not even a discount to be They can do nothing
for us, Yeah, they can do nothing. Oh no, but
I'm gonna have to make sure my identity is covered
on there. Oh I know. I was on there for
like three days with my full name. And by the way,

(47:59):
if anyone has any loose trellis is they're looking to
get rid of the trellis. And I'm not afraid to ask,
as you shouldn't be. Um, I had to say it
to cover up the shame that was radiating through my system.
It's like, you know, like lattice. Okay, a trellis like that,
the vine can crawl up. It's like, um, the lines
intersecting with horizontal Oh my god, guests, you need to trailer.

(48:21):
Let the treillis games begin, bitch, because there so expensive.
I need a something I can stick. Um. You know,
it's a it's an entire it's an entire thing. And
I've creeping across a trellis is one of the most
poetic indications of time. Wow, alright, we'll wrap it up

(48:42):
right there. See you next week. Okay. Unfortunately gave for once.
We're not done this really episode is is chaos is
extra chaotic. I just well, you know what though it
is it's joy, okay, and I never like Um, you know,
joy is not something I've generally sought out. He's not
a crowd. Everyone discovered Mary Oliver during pandemic. Well, I know,

(49:09):
I know, I know, I mean, she's a great poet. No,
and and the you know, beloved, to be beloved, creates
you know, backlash, Yeah, of course, I mean we need
I'm sorry followed No, But I just I just I
feel like there's something I really wanted to. Let me
just look at my Look at my little note for
a second. What does that say? Sorry, I just got nauseous.
Oh fluorescent, I wrote down. Oh, so two words I've

(49:32):
been enjoying. It's simply and there's a fun Wait, I
heard another one because there's fluorescent light. Oh, incandescent light. Okay,
are you ready the verb fluoresce. Ah, that's a verb
I didn't know. Gorge right, and then candesce I think
might also be one. Oh. And then I had a
huge realization about fifteen years ago that I've been meaning

(49:55):
to mention, which is, sit around and think about the
word organization because you are doing a lot of work
ganizing right now. And the fact that it's organs whoa
okay to organize something? Oh? I never thought, okay is
to like, I guess, divide into discreet containerous. By the way,

(50:15):
don't you love saying referring to something as discreet discreet?
To me? Its own specific and separate screet longing? Yeah,
I mean it's always gonna be a little bit of
word player. I just hated what I was saying so much.
I hated what I was saying so much that my
only option was to screaming, Well, guess what I'm gonna do, folks.

(50:39):
I don't know how to summarize the last few two minutes,
but I'm going to pur a soup in mere minutes. Okay,
and I what am I going to be making tonight? Well,
listen to this. I have a big request. Okay, I'll
do it. Okay, you know, pal meani ak, paul meani
a K? Hell is what are you saying? As I'm
saying AK? Why am I doing this? I said ak
earlier and instantly hated myself. A K a um wait,

(51:04):
you know I'll be huge. I mean, it wouldn't be
be absolute obnoxious. But if I started saying okay a
as in otherwise known as I was just like okay,
and they were like, they were like, it's a K
and I'm like yeah, also known as would be a
K otherwise known as O w K. Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright,

(51:24):
I'm just I'm sarring. I'm excited to see you. I've
been taking bite Me shot that someone sent us Bite
Me apple cider vinegar shot every day before I eat
to re acid by the gut micro biomeing. Yeah, and
it's I'm letting a little sugar in because there's honey
in it. Because I read you know about the benefits

(51:45):
of a honey, I finally might come around to like,
you know, a very very localized honey. Um discreet. You
need honey within twenty radius of your home. Oh well,
that's what they say. We have to wrap up. But
this is the concept that the pop comes from bees
that are the pollen that you live. I'm making it
up that it's twenty miles. But the idea is that
you ingest the bee pollen that is localized to where

(52:07):
you live, and that that will help with allergies and whatnot. Wow, Okay,
I used to ingest a lot of bee pollen a
couple of years ago. It was really all this stuff
because they sold it at my local farmers market. And
I loved the poetry of a spoonful of bee pollen
and I'm scared of bees. And I felt like somehow
I was you were taking it into taking it into

(52:27):
yourself like a young man thing. If you see that,
if you see it in the dream, you must eat
the bee and then the will turn into a flower
or whatever. God, remember your dream. Remember dream. We're trying
to wrap up. He's coming up. In my dream, it
was all about kissing a bee. What I just said
that I was having I know I was having this image.

(52:49):
I was having this image last night of like kissing
a bee as softly as I could. This is huge.
I have to write down in my dream you're saying that,
because well we no, no, no, I it would launch
into some primary dreams. Feel the bees wings on my lips.
It was huge. Okay, I love the podcast. Um uh

(53:10):
we wait for trellises and foot and um listeners. Look
out for the lamp on the poog Instagram. You're gonna
really want to see this thing. Okay, and whatever else
I promised to send. All right, Thank you guys. We
really appreciate what you're doing here for us. Thank you Nick. Hi.
That was Poog. If you enjoyed Poog, please subscribe, rate

(53:30):
and review. If not, we will press charges.