Milk Frothers (RE-RELEASE)

The hags discuss frothers versus steamers and dying among close friends. Jacqueline got a 5 on the French AP exam and has never been to Paris. Kate speaks fake French gibberish, but has been multiple times. Making a friend into a tit you procure milk from. Narrating your own routines. Space gray.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kate Berlan, I'm Jacqueline Novak.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
And this is poog, an ongoing conversation about wellness between
two obsessive rets.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Two uncapable intellects. This is our hobby, This is our hell.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
This is our naked desire for free products. This is poog.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Today's topics, Loosely speaking, lifting the great fake phone calls
blonde good. I'm thinking of getting Hey, I'm thinking you
might you might see me.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
I mean, you do see me, but I'm.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Thinking of getting into that whole Gibson girl. Look, do
you know what that is? That's not true actually, but
years ago I heard the term Gibson girl. Looked it up,
and it's like it's when they those women in like
fucking I don't know, nineteen oh six, I don't know.
They would put a rat that was not a real rat,
but they would put something they called a rat and

(00:50):
to create extreme volume, and it was this sort of.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Up ooh doesn't like this really suits us?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
I agree, I do this already, and.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
That volume the crown is key for me.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Do you talk to yourself here? Okay, here's a big question.
Do you ever narrate your own primping?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Like like she gently, She be like, well, what.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Like like I'm embarrassed like like doing like, Okay, we're
gonna start with a serum and then we're gonna like
loud completely narrate some not all the time, but sometimes
just to have a little fun. Or if I'm feeling
like I really don't want to flass, I'll be like
some parts of fast like sometimes I'll I'll just add

(01:40):
in my own commentary that's genius.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
No, I've never done that. I am just I'm just
suffering inside of sort of the primacy of one's own consciousness,
but when in fact I should think of pleasurable ways
to get out, to separate myself. I'm trying to where
have I done that?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I've been thinking so much about what you were saying.
Was it the last episode? Episodes ago about and I
lost it?

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Is that interesting? Completely? I'm not kidding.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
That wasn't even a completely I know I was rare,
just evaporated.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
It's just absolutely evaporated.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, I was saying primacy of my consciousness. Maybe that
triggered something. I mean, those were pretty potent words.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, I think okay, I just got energized because well,
first of all, I had steamed up some oat milk
to put into coffee to drink as we were recording,
to energize myself that I forgot.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
A memory of the time that you sent a hoteliers
the right word anyway, No, sorry, you're energized. Please go.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh no, I'm energized just because I'm I'm imagining the
energy because I think I might do something. Maybe you
call it rude, maybe you call it wrong. I kind
of want to walk away from the mic and get
my coffee.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Get it.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I would be heinous, Okay, right back, because I'm just
because I just I don't want the episode to suffer.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Okay, go, now, off you go, and this is being included.
I feel a sense of loss if I end up
inside of an apployment without a drink of choice, a coffee,
et cetera.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
The horror.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Thank god that it's become standard in American cultured officer
someone of coffee, et cetera. You can rarely count on
what the office has, for example, in a meeting, not
that I've ever been to a meeting.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
And we're back. Look at that. Wow, nice foam. Yeah,
it's called a phonemaker.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
That was a little twisty vibrating a zoop zoop a submerging.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
The product that has been rendered useless at the moment
of inception.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
No, I've traveled.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
There was a there was a period in my life
where I would travel with one of those little you
press the top.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
It's a whisker, it's electric.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I want to I want to make sure everyone knows
exactly what we mean.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
The small battery apper.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
It was a huge Christmas, you know, stocking or gift,
depending on what kind of pricing point you're at. For family.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
My mother gave one to John early.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
See and that's not see I'm smart, Okay, I know it.
It felt like a like that was big, like a
six six years ago that was on a lot of
lists like hey you can make lattes at home.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
It was like the strategists front page.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
And although it has not stuck around, I will say
whether the Strategists pushed it at all, I appreciate they
have this ongoing list of their like favorites that year
after year continued to delight and I have not seen
that there. But yeah, so it's a small it's a
vibrating stick with a tiny little whiske. It wilms.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
It will froth up something without the added benefit of temperature.
And so I would say, the single most life changing purpose.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Wow, taking it again, we knew it. You mean the
single most life.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Changing purchase that I've made in quarantine is no or
purpose or purpose?

Speaker 4 (04:46):
Question of purchase of purpose?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Wow, purpose of purchase, purchase of purpose? Add a cart,
I go on.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Okay, So I bought a milk frother espresso brand brand,
espresso brand, espresso brand. I mean not cheap. I mean
it was maybe a whopping eighty dollars. I don't know,
change my life forever. And talk about wellness has changed
my mornings, Okay, waking up to the phone.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Never talked about without crying.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well know, my mornings bring me to my knees because
but honestly, the way the foam energizes me, that the
sensuality of the phone. Okay, here's another thing. So I
and again this is it's so humiliated. I can't believe
I'm letting this out. But sometimes when I'm making my
coffee in the morning, I pretend that it's my coffee shop.
And I started a small little coffee shop in like Seattle.

(05:42):
But here's here's here's a brutal sentem of capitalism in
the fantasy Is it really me talking about my coffee shop?
I think it's actually an American Express ad of me
being featured as a coffee shop owner. It is with
rates like these, you can finally art your business like
interest lands like and so it's me in the morning light,

(06:05):
by morning light, I mean it's eleven fifteen.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
But it's me doing that.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I and and it's the it's that muted, that muted
palette of the American Express slow motion small business owner,
the person lifting up the grate. When I worked, I
worked at a vintage store for years, and it was
my favorite thing was opening the store because I would
unlock the great New York City, you know, and lift
up and the shuddering of it. It was like me

(06:29):
in the morning, like hey boys, well and I was like,
this is it.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
You know what it really made? I was like, this
is Edith Wharton's New York. You know. It felt completely
It was so romantic.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I was five to the great. I also lifted a
great okay, when I worked as a hostess at a
very fancy restaurant that was in the lobby of a hotel,
and thus which I always forget the name now and
it's gone. Oh but it was a hotel with a
fancy restaurant in it. But because it was a hotel
and they were serve breakfast at five thirty am, I

(07:00):
had to open it up and at five yeah. And
so I was living at my parents' house trying to
get a gig going in New York City, and it
was like, you know, that's the thing. It's like, yeah,
like you want to be a performer, like like, so
you work in a restaurant, That's that's the path. And
I was like, I don't want to get a job
in goddamn advertising or something like it's going to suck

(07:21):
all my creative energy, you know, like I'm gonna get comfortable.
I wasn't even sure that was true, but I remember
feeling like that was the thing people say. So it
almost felt like I had to do something like be
a hostess or something in order to be in constant
state of reminder of what I was actually pursuing. This
is boring, I hate this. We're cutting it, okay, but.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
I wasn't even taking it. It was my own like,
this is not the joy of pook Okay, keep going,
keep going. But but I but it will get me somewhere,
which is, of course hostess. And I would open the grate.
But I was living with my parents' house in the suburb,
and thus I would go home at night it was dark,
and then I would go and I would get on
the train to commute into the city to open that

(08:02):
place when it was all so dark. Do you see
what I'm saying? Commuting to be a hostess? Very false?
And after a couple of weeks, I said goodbye.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
So I didn't say bye.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I sort of just said I'm not coming in. And
then I sort of said and I'm still not coming in.
I've never been good at quitting. I just sort of
quietly leave, don't answer phone calls, and then some figures
out I'm no longer there.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I cried for like five seconds when I was fired
from that job, my great opening job. When they fired me,
I went and I and I was on the phone
and I kind of was like and then I was fine, Oh.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, anyway, the point, I just want you to know
that I too have lifted a great It's incredible and
it's it is a real feeling a hello boys, you know,
hurry up, etcetera.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
Oh my god, I mean immediately transported to Paris.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
And have you ever been? I never have? Did I
get a five on the French ap?

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Indeed I did?

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Did I study for multiple years? Did I I've been to?

Speaker 3 (09:02):
I just know. I know this is not even worth saying.
But you would love Paris?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
No? I know?

Speaker 3 (09:10):
I mean it's in.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Paris in October, Wow, months before lockdown?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Why do? I'm no.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
I'm incredibly lucky that I was able to travel right
before it all.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I do not know you were in Paris?

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Well, I was working in London. And the thing that's
so incredible is that you can just an hour and
a half away is Paris. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Living an hour and a half away from Paris surely
would take the magic away from me.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Wow, what a thought. Well, when you go, I have
an incredible hotel.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
I bet you do one.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Hundred a night. It's the only affordable hotel in Paris,
and the locations to die for.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Good.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Listen, They're not going to give you much.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
They're going to give you a bed, some towels and
a water bottle if you're lucky, but you're gonna love it.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
You're gonna write really mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
I mean, because I'm just leaning towards I don't know
if I'm looking for a deal. Well, no, I know,
but finally go to France, like I don't.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
But Parisian hotels are just like maybe the prices, yeah,
but I mean no for a reason. No, But I'm
just saying I have a great place. It's a great location.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
It's not fas I think.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
I know. I mean, do you think that the spoils
of poog will spoil Poog?

Speaker 1 (10:16):
No? Will will? Is there a wellness resort in Paris?
There must be a kind there must be obviously the
French love beauty. Okay, but if I go.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
To Paris, I don't want I want to be hungover
every morning, you know.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I don't want to go to Paris.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
So we can still go to the spa in the morning, okay,
and hide dream and then destroy ourselves at night, which
is the ultimate dream, right, destroyed at night, stumbling into
the spa in the morning, you and me. This wine
on my lip.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Actually one of the drunkest times I've ever been is Paris,
and I was probably I think I was twenty one,
twenty So another trip to Paris is what you've just revealed.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
There's been more, I.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Guess I've been not that I'm counting, but four times.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh my god, it hurts me.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Ask you this. Did you take French?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Ever?

Speaker 3 (11:04):
No?

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, see this is this is to be the word.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
What was all that.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Worked for you?

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Listen to this.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I bet you can't take French.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I've been speaking since I was a teenager, which goes
something like.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Sounds great.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
That's a really good cat I know's going to be.
But it's better than I thought.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
That used to be a trick that I would do
in New York City to avoid people, you know, trying
to with their clipboards. God bless them, you know, international.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, it's not necessarily a good mode of collection.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Usually already remember don't God bless them like green Peace.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
By the way, green peace isn't green peace whatever. I'm
not going to throw green peace.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
But I like there is some dude, okay, because green
Peace would never acknowledge the animal agriculture actually is the
leading contributing factor.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Tom anyway, so methane, the big.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Ham or whatever.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
I don't know again, I know almost nothing, but but
I used to get of it by speaking French. So
i'd have my I grab my cell phone. Also pretending
to speak on the phone as one of my great arts.
It's actually, really, it's actually that's almost the only barometer
I have in my life for growing up and for
kind of having achieved some kind of new emotional stratosphere
internally where I don't have to pretend to talk on

(12:16):
the phone to avoid her two in order to suture
together moments in which I might have nothing to do
but just have to be raw right in.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
The world, not want to write and not want to
talk to you. And that's okay, why I have to falsify.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Someone I had okaykay, okay, this goes back to something
that I wanted to talk about, which is what you
brought up, which is something that I've always thought about
for years as well. We all do that thing of
like getting through life by pretending you're in a movie
or that someone's watching you. Right, And so I recently
went to the beach alone for the first time, you know,
and and I went down there, I had my blanket.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Really, this is huge, because don't forget thank you who
taught you how to go to a pool alone, who
coached you, who coached.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
You and I want to talk about this is.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Completely forgot that this is actually a huge quarterstone of
the friendship. So I, oh my god. So I would
be at hotels, you know, for work or whatever. I
need to say that for work so that people don't
think I'm just like going to hotels.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
It's just for fun, like absolutely not. And so I
would be at a and.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I would always be way too scared to go to
the pool alone.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
And Jackie, when did this or what rehappened?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
It's not about it's not about safety, be clear, No,
social anxiety And I talk about it.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, social anxiety.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Something about being alone at the pool and like the
moment that you take off your towel and you're in
you know, you're underwear and you're wading into the water.
Something about it is. So I'm just crushed by it.
I'm crushed about public performance of solitude and of somehow
gaining like the nutrition of solitude, but being aware of

(13:44):
other people seeing you get it. I don't know something,
but I'll just say that when I went to the
beach very recently, I had my towel, I had my hat,
I really overpacked to I had like a video camera,
I had a therminis like I brought me too much, like.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Two books a notebook less.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
I choose to write like I was really I was
so way down by the materials. I was like, I
don't I can't walk that far. So I came down
to the beach and then I was like, oh shit,
like this is stuff so heavy. I had water, I
had seltzer, I had kombucha.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
I think it was way too much.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
And so then so okay, So I was there. Beach
was quite empty.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
There were a few people, and a couple of them
just kind of naturally looked up at me, just the
way you would if you saw something moving your privery.
And I was so overwhelmed by them seeing me that
I and this is a low point for me. This
is a return to old patterns. I took out my phone.
I took out my phone and looked at it and
started to look around the beach as though I was

(14:35):
looking for my friend. Oh I'm here, I must have
beat I must have beat them here, like weird.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
So I kind of looked down.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
The beach like kind, I do a full At this point,
There's no way they're still watching me. I'm still engaged
in the full performance of HM, where are they?

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (14:49):
So that I put the phone down and go, okay, no,
you're here alone and they're gonna god damn Ler in
the hard way.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
So then I so that I so, I'm so way
down by the by the props that I walked down
and I just decided this is going to do.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
So I, you know, socially distant, I'm very far from them,
but I lay out my towel, I sit there. It
was amazing. I have to say.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I have to say that the majesty of the ocean
really did capture me, and I did the unthinkable.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
It took my pants off.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well I didn't have I didn't have a bathing suit
because it wasn't like I wasn't going to go into
the ocean.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
But you didn't have bathing so you treated your underwear
as though they were bikini bottoms.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yes, But I took off my jeans and I was
in just a T shirt and my underwear.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
And I was like, yeah, what was your underwear?

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Like French cut black? Okay, so that was kind of looks.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like being a bikini yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
And I was like, I dare anyone to call the sheriff,
you know, but it was really freeing. And then I stopped.
I no longer picked up the phone, but I just
I meant to tell that story to highlight that I
used to have to use the phone to pretend, and
in fact a couple of times I remember in like
a romantic encounter. Again, this is a long time acou
I gran out of this, but like I remember one

(15:55):
time meeting someone on a date and I saw them approaching,
and I was like, I couldn't bear the moment of
me standing there them seeing me, and then just face.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
See one of my hugest things I walking toward each other.
I was like, I need to break this moment. This
is hell. And so I took up my phone.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
And I, oh, I'm getting a call a haha, And
then I kept the call going till they were very close,
and then did the finger up sorry, mouthed sorry, and
then went okay, I'll call you back, and then sorry, sorry,
hi hi hi Hi.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
No they never knew.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
My shock is because I literally wrote about this pages
pages okay, in something in the pages app okay. And
I have a lot to say about this, but maybe
I'll cover it when we get back because I feel
like we're almost.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Okay, I'm dying, so let's go to breaks. We can
get right back.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
And then I want to also cover Arino, who I
can't remember the name Eranchino. I know I've got it wrong.
It's fro Via Espressos. I want to tell you about
the device a little more that people didn't get to
know anything about the device, the froth thing.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Okay, okay, tell me right now.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
So I can't stand similarly, and I feel like I'm
just about to repeat back to you. So if there's
nothing fresh in here, that's fine, okay, But I need
you to understand how deeply I understand. I don't like
meeting someone, okay, and navigating the moment of whether they
see you first or you see them first. Okay. I
certainly don't enjoy walking into a place like or walking

(17:28):
to a corner where you're expected to meet someone and
looking around, knowing that they might be looking at you, looking.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Around the fool.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, okay, okay, as a fool.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Now, oh god, oh god, I'm getting nervous.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
So it's almost like, tell me exactly where you are,
you know this kind of thing, right? And then I
also don't like the approach from a distance, okay, because
I actually think, so here, here, here, here's a way
to bring in dear listener, Okay, in the way that
they may understand. So imagine you're meeting someone on the
corner of fifty seventh and ninth.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Okay, I was hoping you'd say, nine, I got it.
Used to work right around there, and I had it
all in front of me, and I wasted every dura
fifty seventh and night.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
So you're meeting on a corner and you see them,
and you're at the same intersection, but you're not on
the same side. So they're on the west side of
the street, you're on the east side of the street.
You're both on the north side of the street. Okay,
do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Ok got it?

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
I learned northeast southwest very recently. Well, I mean I
knew them in a certain sense, but only see.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Them conceptually, of course.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, in practically it's hard to just something clicked in
for me last couple of years where I can finally
identify that, you know, oh west side, you know, north
side of the your south side of the street. I
used to just like guess I'd be like, well, fifty
percent chance I'll get it right, and then if I
get it wrong, they can go it's not the other one,
and I go, oh, yeah, no, it's that one, you know.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
But I now finally have command over northeas southwest.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
In all contexts or in cities, in cities like city blocks,
like understanding that in fact, I almost now have a
preternatural ability.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
To well that's a lot, okay that going from not
having not having You're like, I actually have a preternatural
sense now about right and left.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
I can identify a right hand before almost anything in
the centry.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Okay, this is something that's sensual to who I am
that I do attribute almost spiritual properties to things that
are not spiritual, Like telling time to me used to
be kind of this like thought it was a thing. Yeah,
like there was a magic to it, and yeah, so
so that. But it's not magical, right, it's just one
way or the other.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Was joking.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
I actually think everything's magical, and I believe that perhaps
you do have a preternatural.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Thank you, but no, But now I'm more interested in
knowing what side of this, like different beds in my
life and being like, which way was I facing when
I was sleeping and being like, oh, I sleep on
my my I mean, I sleep all, I sleep in
every way, But like I'm like, oh, if I was
on my right cheek, I was facing north, and now
here I am in New York City on my right
cheek and I'm facing totally see you.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
You've triggered me to another thing I'm interested in, but
I really need to finish up. Okay.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Oh the thing about strangers meeting someone, so there they
are across the street.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Now the hell, I would almost rather pretend I don't
see them across the street of courkay, But a lot
of the people don't specify when they talk about meeting
at an intersection. They don't say we'll meet on the
northwest side of the you know, so it's just the
generic of the intersection, okay. And so then so I
almost think the best bet is if you see them
across the way and you are meeting at a specific
I like to almost like try to like not see them, Okay,

(20:22):
but I'm not gonna do that because not a liar,
you know what I mean. So instead, so let's say
you're across the street, okay, you see each other from afar. Okay,
obviously you wait, hey, okay, now what do you do?
They're in the wait for the light to turn. Okay,
that's hard. Do you clown for thirty five seconds?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Because I feel that what happens, because you have the
audience across the streew to your friend, you become less
concerned about the people around you because it's all about
the performance and your friend. So suddenly there's a lot
of like goofing or something.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
And the problem is if you do too much up top,
too much clowning up top, but it's like a minute, wait, yeah,
then you have to stop clowning and kind of look away,
and that is another performance. Now you're performing just that
you're normally, you're.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Pretending to be alone.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
You're pretending that that happening day, a lot happened, okay, yeah,
and then you meet whatever. Okay, So I don't like that.
And then, like in a restaurant, for example, I will
should be like, if I'm there first and I see
them arrive, I politely look away. I let them surprise me. Oh,
I see them, I look down, I study the menu,
I look at the phone, et cetera. And I let

(21:23):
them get so close close to me that I'm startling.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Oh yeah, but that seems like the best way to
do it.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
But see, I am recalling now meeting someone similarly, you know,
we'd never met in person, seeing them enter go oh god,
oh god, and then pretend to be focused on whatever
was in front of me, be at a phone or something.
We all know it's a phone, right, and then.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Not your small watercolor kid.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
But then being a little scared that they did see
me see them, so then they caught me in their performance,
which is actually its own separate.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Health, which is so such a health, which is the
ultimate health.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
So it's almost worth risking it all and locking eyes
as they walk towards you.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
No, And if you push through, sometimes you can discover
that that which seemed some would say, what is so
painful about the thing that you're avoiding? And it's like,
it's not like I sat down one day and decided
to be afraid of these things. It's more like we
feel the impulse, and we feel ourselves responding to the
impulse to perform this, that or whatever, and it's sort

(22:25):
of like and then it's just it's sort of habit,
and you assume there's something to it, and that's why
you feel the need. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Also, I think if someone sees you across the room,
your personality isn't there.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
You don't have.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Your verbally, you can't you can't add to the portrait
of body. Yeah, you might as well be on all
fours like air. It's like you're completely you're contextless. Like
it's so brutal, and so in those moments.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Why if you're death contextless? Again, this is my issue
for everything. I mean, my number one fear is being
the fool, okay, and so.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
When you're dead, it's your fear of being the dead
body there fine, and then at last you're unable. You're
finally there's no way language, you have no saying the matter,
and they just observe you. You were finally reduced to just
meet and you're no longer able to through language.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
No, not even the body, but the personality, which.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
Is of course your genius joke.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Due to it being my number one fear. What is
someone not realizing I know I'm dead.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
It's the funniest thing in the entire world.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's the utter humiliation of death. And that's why I
insist on ghostthood et cetera, et cetera. Okay, don't you
dare look at a dead person and think they're the
fool who doesn't know? How? Dare you fool in flesh?
But wait, I just want to say one thing. You
mentioned a milk frouther Earlier, you mentioned an espresso brand.
I'm bringing it back and we'll we'll find our way

(23:47):
back here. Okay, because we're not done.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
We just have to briefly say, because you're talking about death,
and something I've been thinking about a lot lately is like, oh,
I think if we talked about this on pook or
just privately, how my kind of fantasy of like dying
in a group home with my friends, like like this
kind of like as the pandemic shows us, like the
nuclear family has failed, right, Like that's actually having like
a family actually doesn't give you kind of safety ship.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Like yeah, or just happiness, well, all the above, but
also like we actually do need community, We need a
breathing friends.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I am your obsess with community and you're obsessed with
having friends, like you're always like you're always talking about
important friendship. I know which is and I know you
feel it's ignored, And I obviously agree.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
I'm really interested in other farms.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Intimacy and public intimacy is all these things truly, But
like I would feel knowing I could die, like I
talked to John sometimes about like wanting to die in
like a twin bed, like next to him.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Of course you do, yeah, because it's like I just
think that, like it's so hideous.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
We could, like Jacqueline, if you John and I could
be elderly together in a room together, dying together.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
That seems pretty cool. That seems quite I know.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
I know it was funny about you. Okay, what's funny
about you?

Speaker 2 (25:04):
But then we have to figure out, Oh the money part,
like the financialsn't worried about that specifically.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
No, It's like it's very you because for one, you're
creating a scenario around exactly your desires. So it's like
it's like it's like it's like where is my husband
in this I don't have a high But for example, right,
it's like it's like you.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
I assume our partners are dead, right.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
And and you assume that because you actually want that
to be true for the for the the scenario you
just described.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, you, I'm trying to evade my own loneliness, my
own fears of perhaps not being.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Partnered partner life towards death and then right.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
And so I kind of am imagining a future in
which no, it's not either you are you know, romantically
partner until you die. But there's actually other ways to
of course have intimacy and to not die alone. No,
totally the dialoge thing, but proximity is huge for me
dying alone.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Oh but people you like, No, who's in the room, sweetheart?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
See I I Oh, By the way, I got clarity
from my mother. I asked about that hospice thing that anecdote,
remember that, like yeah, or just like something? But I
asked my mom. I was like, did I get it right?
Was it wasn't it something like that? I just remember
this image of the person dying up right and kind
of like done. And she was like, what it was?
Was they said at the hospice. They said, like some

(26:23):
deaths are difficult or something like summer easy somewhere difficult
not meaning the grief, Okay, meaning like not everyone merely
passes away and fucking hospice where it's all primative. No, No,
but but I I know how you think, and I
just to me that that twin bed with generally description.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, you're just saying, you know how, I think you
really do know how.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I think it's the same as you going, I'm coming
to New York for a week, and I'd like to
have a dinner and I'd like it to be you
and me and John okay and I and I'm specifically
here's the restaurant I'm thinking okay, And it's like the
it's the ultimate, like and lock it in, lock it in?
Can we lock in the date? Can we lock in
the date? The dinner of others, like almost getting involved,
like like this, like and it'll be like secret, it'll just.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Be us whatever.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
And sometimes, as you know, it's like the light of
the you know, the person who win the light of
their gaze like Jude law in Talented, mister Ripley, Okay,
and the light of their gaze shines upon you. It's
like the sun. It's the warmest thing in the world. Okay,
but then it turns away. It's like there are times
where I can feel the flattery of being the solution
to your anxiety, but then there are times where it's depersonalizing, Okay,

(27:34):
because like there are times where like your anxiety can
be stated by you know, a private hang with John okay,
where I'm off doing whatever the fuck I'm doing right right,
where I'm not the useless drug. And it's like it's
like the moments where I am the useful drug, like
like I kind of know that, like there are days
and times where I'm not, you know, and that, I mean,
that's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, because you're You're on a shortlist though, Jacqueline, like
the short list of people I love who I I'm
one of my big you know, this is all about
the burden of growing up, as James Hollis would say, right,
and I am.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I love the presence of Hollis in our recent episodes.
That's what you're reading, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
I mean, I would love to talk to him. He's
the burden of what a friend's reading.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
I'm not saying this is not that, but I think
it's a hysterical idea, like how you are forced into
the I mean, I'm the worst. Whatever I'm reading is gospel, yeah,
of course, and I'm forcing it the terms on people. Okay,
please go on. And I'm loving the Holliss talk. And
actually I woke in the night going how I'm going
to read all of Hollis before the next poog and
shock Kate and pretend I'd.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Read it for years so much going oh no, I
just was saying, this is maybe too unbearably you know.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
It's not h what's the word I'm looking for. I'mbearably indulgent.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
But it's like I one of my great lessons I
have to earn myself is to self regulate right, self
soothed classic, So I am trying to when I feel
that's kind of my life's work right now, is feeling
the anxiety having up and instead of reaching for my phone,
calling you, calling John, you know, doing something like that,
you know, going in.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Where at first I thought you go instead of reaching
for my phone, I call you. I called John, I
I tell you to come over. And I was like, no, no, no,
like that'd be fine.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
And I am grateful for the fact that I do that.
I can get solace and comfort and connection and through
calling you, But it's also important for me to do
that work myself, so that also you don't feel, as
you said, kind of completely objectified as just another tit
for me to procure milk.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
And I never actually feel that because no, I don't think.
I'm just saying I think it's funny like but and
we all do this for each other and whatever, and
it's it's uh, it's okay to be held sometimes for sure, right.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
But but no, but you were you were saying.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
The aeron Chino. I just want the listeners to understand
that earlier, when you're talking about a frother.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
We show, I'm givotting ratity to milk frother. Now, okay,
we're gonna pivot right back.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
This is just a brief continuation. Okay, again, I just
want to clear up. We we shit on. We shit
on the thing that merely whisks your milk into a state.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Of business for children.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
By the way, you promise warmth. It only seems to travel.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
On an airplane. Okay, soaring above and people looking at me.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
This is when I was into chaga, right, this is
when I was doing mushroom powders, and I would religiously
have a cup of tea or have a yeah, like
hot water on the plane.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
It's the hot water for me. Please just around and
rustling around your bag in your bag. By the way,
if you seat your elbows sharply jutting into the ribs
of those next to you as you scramble for your father.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
By the way, I just want to say the absolute
injury of Carry Bradshot. There's one episode of Sex in
the City. Their their their app brunch to ordering brunch,
and Carry Bradshot asks for hot water with some lemon please,
and that's all she orders the meal. And that's of
course ruined many lives.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
But it was it's supposed to demonstrate depression or no.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
She was happy. She was like getting good.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
She was like fresh off a great date, and so
she was just like, actually, you know, and Miranda's like.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
I'll have a short stack with bacon eggs in the hole.
And Carrie Bradshaw's like her hands are like this.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I know that her hands are Oh, I'll have some
hot water and some lemon please, And I remember being like,
this is femininity I must reduced in order to achieve.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, it was. It was pain. It was the trough. Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
They made Miranda trough where they could, where they could
this is a perfect example of me using shuttle okay, okay,
where they could just try to swiftly shuttle everything human
that they took away from the other characters.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
She shoved into the trough.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Shuveled and shoveled into the trough from Miranda like like
like almost like like the safe.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
No, it's interesting thing about looking at sex and the
city through the lens of feminine excess, right, because I'm
realizing kind of Charlotte, right, was just like eccesssive need right,
character of like need and want kind of bottomless like
attachment anxiety. Samantha obviously being excessive sexuality, Miranda excessive woman's

(32:11):
missire but excessive like independent, successive like she Claire, you know,
and it's kind of like excessive.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
She had a cat, she was a lawyer. She didn't
have a lot of baby, but have long hair.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
That was it, what like have a baby but like
I'm still gonna have my job, like like it was
like there was some of that, Like she was wrestling
with the judgments of the fact of having a nanny.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
That was that was That was one of them. But anyway, God,
they all have this access.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
What is Carrie's excess shoes Actually Carrie, and this is
why Carrie actually is I'll tell you what is to
connect to right, Yeah, I mean a lot of people
like these days, like freely are just like Carries a monster,
you know, like because it was never like discussed and
now there's Carries Carries a nightmare like nightmare.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
She's the worst of them all. I haven't watched long time, okay,
but but her, I'm planning to rewatch the excess of Carrie.
I would pause it maybe is and this is you know,
I'm not someone with a podcast on sex and the city.
I'm speaking without depth here, But of course, instinctually, i'd
say her desire to have what she wants okay mm hmm,

(33:20):
like like there's a selfishness right even like even like
her disappointments, like her dissatisfaction with what's his name?

Speaker 3 (33:31):
I mean, which one?

Speaker 1 (33:32):
The guy who's always in the the guy who's in
the corner fucking whittling a chair at all times?

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Aiden?

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, yeah, Aiden, Okay. I feel that America was trying
to say Aiden's perfect, and how dare you how dare
you want more? Okay, how dare you want? You know,
the flash of mister big you know, Aiden's right there
and he's whittling a chair as we speak, okay, and
it's like, no, actually, Aiden is fucked up to you know,

(33:58):
like he doesn't he doesn't get Carrie.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Fuck, she was bringing up a lot.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Okay, but but Carrie is just like a I mean,
what is Carrie. She's a whiny kind of vessel or she's.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
But I'm not talking about like a cultural understanding of
like what her excesses, but like within the logic of
the show, what is her excess? But I think, yeah,
her excess you could say, is that kind of feminine longing, romance, romanticism,
Like she is she.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Carry? Yes, she wants. I mean it's like it's carry
she carries. She she Wow, that's what it is. It's
what she carries.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Oh you know, I almost wanted to.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
There was a brief period where I had the desire
to bleach part of my hair because I we you know,
curly hair like myself, I can be entitled to a
carry Bradshaw lifestyle. And so I her the classic look
the Baseball episode, her in the fur coat with the
sunglasses and the the you know, her beach blonde waves.
And so I remember texting a friend of mine.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Who's an who's in the fashion industry, right, you know,
should I do this to my hair? And she just
responded no, And I was so shut down. But she
saved me. Ultimately.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
You know, we all dream if we're not blonde, of
going blonde, and what it could do for us, how
it could elevate us. And I do want to address that.
I do want to cover the Arrantino when we return.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Don't like desperate to go blonde, not the whole thing.
It's not going blonde.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
If it's partial, that's all I have to say that
I would cover that partial turn, but partial hands alive, partial,
it's not.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
It's a reference to dirty blonde. Highlights.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Highlights, Highlights are alive.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I'm talking about them. Can you imagine if you got highlights?
It's over for you, brutalized.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
We'll be back soon.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
We're back, We're here. I have one thing to say.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
The erranchino heats the milk on your countertop?

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Okay, what in God's name is an aeron Chino? Is
that a brand? Or is that an Italian phrase?

Speaker 1 (35:59):
The one that came with mine espresso? You referenced, Oh
maybe arachina. I don't know. Milk frother froterand yes, but
it did it come with your inn espresso? Did you
buy it separately?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Is it black and silber?

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Does it have a tiny little whisk sitting inside of
the shell. Sweet. Okay, yeah, I think it's Erchino brand
or aeron Chino Espresso. Mine came in an espresso box.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Oh that's psychotic. Well, I don't say I knew. You
didn't hear that.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
You didn't hear it because you didn't want to hear it.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I don't want to hear it. They came to espresso box.
But it's a different brand. That's a love, that's a
chaos I'm not ready to accept.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
All right, So there's that. I just want to say
that the highlights would ruin you. Highlights would ruin you.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, I'm not I'm not highlight by the way, greet
it with laughter, global laughter. Also highlight one that knew me,
that ran into me with highlights. It would be like,
I mean, it's just not possitive devastation.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
It's it's it's so not for you.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
I mean, do you think you know that you're sexy?

Speaker 4 (36:55):
Right?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
It depends it's just too embarrassing. Yeah, okay, No, I
just want to say it depends you find because this
is the same people I want to like to be
a woman in comedy. Right.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
The question that continues to somehow be asked.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
But it's like, yeah, okay, so what because one of
the one of the essential issues of that question, Well,
there's this other thing, right, which is like the desexualization
of the funny woman.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
You know that you're sexy, and okay.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Okay, I know that I'm sexy.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
What am I trying to say this? No, it's like,
don't you hate don't you hate it when people say to.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
You like you're actually sexy, or like people like people
are like, you're high.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
No, there they assume that or that by taking on
the mantle. Well, it's not dissimilar from the other one,
which is, you know, someone watches comedy and says like,
you know, you're actually really smart, Like I've realized that
comedians like like you actually have to have to be

(37:54):
really smart to be a good comedian, like, and they
they're telling you in the same way. It's it's it's
like take off the makeup, you know, wipe off the
mESC era. It's the they believe they're revealing to you
something you did not know about yourself. It's it's like
pretty much like its smart, but.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
They're leaning forward with a damn cloth, taking off your
my makeup going exactly look at that, and you're like,
I know.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
You think I don't know what's under the mask I
put it on.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
No, right, every day I'm aware of what lies beneath
the face.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Well, and then there's the kind of inverse of the
you know, I remember someone saying, you know, like they
get there, I am wearing red lipstick and then being
running into them on the street and then being like
you don't you don't need that?

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Well, what the hell did that?

Speaker 1 (38:44):
I'm not going to name them both crazy, it's kind
of like you don't need that. And then like it's
it's terrible because like they act as though they're complimenting you.
They're giving you this truth about like that you're.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
Trap okay, and it's like, and what am I supposed
to do?

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Respond? Out of my bright red lips like thank you,
like out of the very painted lips with which they
just mocked like thank you, like like thus making my
lips and embarrassment when it's like a choice I have
done myself.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
It's it's ugly.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
It's also it's also assuming that the pleasure of adornment
lies only in the beholder, right.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
It's like exactly, and let me have to scream I'm
doing it for me, and like became this women dress
for other women idea was like rolling around for a
while and I feel like it was said simultaneously Women's
mag Yeah, and it was, and it was sort of
like supposed to be, uh, like, it's not about you boys.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Was kind of the like it's like, we're each other,
don't each other.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
We're so aware of your gaze that we actually can
only perceive ourselves and each other through that very lens.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, and I don't know, but yeah, it's that sucks.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
And then.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
And then wait, but I wanted there was something else.
I'm sorry. I wasn't going to go back to the
phone where I felt like I covered it. But all
the homer is is the thing that's simultaneously heating and whisking.
And that's kind of interesting because.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
All it is it's absolutely life changing.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
No I know, but what I'm saying is interesting that
it is the very thing we mock plus heat. That's all.
It is the same whisking, but it's a circle of wires,
you know, it's just a little donut of wire. Okay,
that's the whisker and it's just that sitting on top
of a heat shelf, you know, and yet Kate.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Berlin, I marvel at it every day. Every day. When
I pour it, I go, God, damn, life is sweet.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Wait, I have a huge question. I just want to
cover a north, north, south, east west. Okay, So right now,
I know that you've internalized east side, west, side, et
cetera of LA because of the you know, ideas surrounding
those things. Okay, but here here's a big question. Now, Okay,
without thinking, point to where I'm not trying to have
you get the right answer when I say, oh, you're
I'm going to fly to New York today.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Okay, point point new York isn't don't try to get
it right. I think it's this way.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
I really that's what I'm asking.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
There's two way.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
So I experienced into the context of my current home.
Out that window, that's that's New York. Okay, I just
believe that's New York and that's east. Now I don't
know if that's east. Let me take a minute think
about and see if I'm right on this one. If
I ever oriented, because I actually think Los Angeles's proximity
to the ocean and my sense of which direction the
ocean is I'm finally.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Maybe right, Yeah, it really has.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
You know, there's a real sense of oceans there and
we're pretty close to it. Rest of the country is
that way, Yeah, so I actually feel But but in
life in general, like if I go to my parents' house,
to my run on the East coast. Yeah, if I'm
sitting in my childhood bedroom, which way do I think
of California? As from there? I know which way it is.
It's like through the woods essentially, and like, I don't

(41:44):
even want to try to do it right now, but
I'm pretty sure it's not that I think actually the
mental experience of or like in the suburbs of like
which way is Manhattan? Bless you God?

Speaker 3 (41:53):
I really inherited my father's sneeze. It's awful.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I always think. You know, it's interesting if you can
recognize someone by their is, not by its unique characteristics,
but by the vocal tonality that comes through. If there's
a actual sonorous thing happening, if it's not what's it
called voiced versus on voice, it's not, but it's you
can hear.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
But anyway, I want to figure it out.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Now, are you capable of figuring out what North Suys
Jesus West is via your phone?

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Okay for real? Oh for you you want actual, like
you want to get apple.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
And I want to know if you're feeling matches your
You're right, I think it's time to bring an apple
flying in New York today. Say it in your head,
feel it, point point to New York. It's this way
right in your heart, it's this way.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
It was actually also going to say I drove by
your house through the day without you knowing. Fucking just
a reveal.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Asshole, this is you didn't you didn't do anything?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Well no, but I well, I really I suddenly found
myself on your street and I was like, and if
something about driving by literally knew that you were the
exact one.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I mean, I don't want to give anything away.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
But no, I drove by. I know I was on
your block.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Did you used to drive by the homes of ex lovers? No?
But uh I did once.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
I did once the homes of crushes in adolescents was
was a really interesting question, and we'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Oh yes, well this is late adolescence, I would argue,
because I was eighteen nineteen, right, Yeah, And I drove.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
The parents home at that time, like they weren't they didn't.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Have their own home.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yes, exactly what that's what's so interesting.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
And I drove by his house and was like my
heart was pounding.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
And later or like and you're eighteen and it was
a lover of seventeen that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
No, I was still eighteen.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
It was it was like we had like and it
wasn't even like a bad breakup or anything, but it
was like, you know, we had a thing. And then I,
you know, went to school, and then I was like
home for Christmas break, like back from New York, and
so I was driving around, you know, listening to music
and I was like hmm. And then I drove by
his house and I was like, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (43:54):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Because I had to kind of turn down like a
main thoroughfare. No, so I remember turning down driving by
the house, heart racing. And then I would say, twenty
minutes later, I.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Got a text from him, Okay, what did it say?

Speaker 3 (44:08):
The Hills have Eyes?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Cap Berlin, are you fucking joking?

Speaker 3 (44:11):
And the Hills have Eyes is not in the hills
that movie had?

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Like just saw you?

Speaker 3 (44:15):
He's somehow he saw me and.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
The Hills have Eyes caperlamb.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
We may have banged. I think maybe that it worked
and we banged that break.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
I can't fully but I stand on his own bushes peering.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Out of the like was he standing outside his bedroom window?

Speaker 2 (44:30):
It was very because I remember dalving by and being like,
there's no way because his car wasn't there or something.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
I don't remember the details.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Of that, but by the way, I have to say,
like this person, okay, okay, that's oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
To say the hills have drama there he was a doll.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, yeah, oh my god, that's so.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
He was gorgeous too, Gorgia.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Hills have Eyes Kate comic caper lamp. Yeah, wow, I
love that.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
And he was an apple genius at this point. Wait, oh,
he works at the Genius Bar.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I mean you met him performatively like doing your your like.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
I don't know how it works.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Act no, but I do, but it is great to
have someone who knows how across the blonde wood of
an apple desk.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Had seems to be locked when's apple? I've taught a thing?
Are too too? A genius to their shame and delight oddly, really, yeah,
I taught them command tab to right right now, you've
probably never done it. Don't worry. Nothing bat will happen.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
What man tab Wait, what happened?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
And then you're ready for the next one, and then
command command just make it go. No, it moves you
through the different applications. You can switch to another app
without using it, and then command shift tab moves you
in reverse. Okay, through the apps. Well, okay, it's huge.
And yeah, they didn't know and they were stunned. And
I also famously use hot corners. It's not celebrated in

(45:50):
my home. If Chris tries to come over here and
use my computer, he doesn't have the mouse, I like
to I crank the speed.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
On my on my mouse.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Okay, would you ever switch hot corners to different areas
just to kind of like neurologically switch it up.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
It's called muscle confusion. And absolutely I don't really switch
them out, to be honest.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Lower left would throw me.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Well they do different things and whatever. But but wait, wait, wait,
I really wanted to cover whatever we were just on.
I was very pumped about oh.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Hous driving by next lover's home.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yes, but then there was something I was shouting just
now before hot corners, hot corners, genius bar blonde.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Wood, got it?

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Okay, Okay, So I dare.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
The Apple store, Oh here we go to.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Okay, they'd never they would never have the courage to
switch to darkwood, oh wow, because they see it as
so obviously old fashioned. Okay, they see and look. I
resent the dark wood of Senate. Okay. I'm a humiliated
by by American governmental style, the fact that it's like
it's time to switch Cherry Erry. Would it's time to

(46:56):
switch for government? Used to switch to minsen Reymodern?

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Now?

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Okay, No, I know it.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
You're sleep at the wheel, Okay, I believe me. I know, Okay,
But midsentry monter will last Kate, and so it's a
better choice for our government, okay than this.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
It's true scary if the government were to slide into
like fashion like that, it would be I think really disturbing.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Non fashion is from the goddamn forties. So it's fine, okay.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
No, I think government buildings should be intentionally ugly.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Ugly, sure, okay, and I agree. I don't actually think
they should go mid sundry modern. But what I want
to say is I just would love to just dare
Apple to turn their stores to dark.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Cherry so white walls dark cherry wood.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
No, I think a deep eggplant, deep eggplant.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
I have said this in a few places. Wait, so
they'll never get rid of the white walls.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well, I mean their computers aren't white. They're fucking space
gray and silver. And by the way, that's another thing
I want to talk about. I'm so goddamn tired space
gray of space grain silver. And don't tell me that
rose gold is an improvement. The rose gold laptop of Apple.
I have something to say.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Okay, okay, the.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Rose gold of Apple. It's just so clearly like it's
still the silver meda. It's not true color. It's still
silvery metal with a pink cast. The flavor is still
the silver.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Bring us back.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Remember when they had black and white laptops it ruled.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Wow. Actually, you know what my carry's was black? That
is wrong.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
I hate space gray. I mean space gray. I prefer
to silver.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
My iPhone is red. I have a seven.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
I just bought a new phone because my phone's officially dead.
But I is your phone yellow?

Speaker 1 (48:25):
It's a case yellow, that's not a case.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
That's an actual phone.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yes. Now, this is the one area where they got
it right now.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
I'm embarrassed. I just got a new phone because I
had to. I don't know why I keep saying in
that like that, like no one cares.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, you felt the need to be clear that
it had fully dyed.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
I just don't want someone thinking that like I need
five G baby, like you know, like I just didn't.
Like it was just that my phone truly doesn't work anymore, and.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
So you can get a new phone even when it
does work. You just it's fine, thank you.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
This is not I mean, I can't believe your phone
is yellow. I'm really jealous.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
And I got a blue and clear case so that
I could enjoy the.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Lwose are Who's Talking colors? Those are what I don't
know if this means anything. Who's Talking is a movie
that I watched every four hours for eight years.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Okay, look Who's Talking? Of course means something to me.
And I just I thought you were saying I thought
it you were saying you were talking about fashion brand
like I thought you were like that those are like,
you know, like Gucci's colors. And I'm like, oh, sorry
what and you're like.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Look what I said. What I said had her in reality,
that makes sense. You wouldn't have known that.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
No, No, but these are child I was gonna say
these are child toy colors, which I thought was pretty exciting, exactly,
and then I attached a wallet of my own design.
You know, I've got a great system going here, and
I'm really proud of it. It's held strong for some time.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Well, I'm getting my new phone on Sunday, so finally
I can copy paste. The listener is my phone does
not allow me to copy paste, and it's been a
real issue. So what do you mean I highlight the text,
I highlight anything I say copy, it will not paste.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
You mean you rest your up, you rest your finger there,
it will not pay. Did you bring it to any geniuses?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
No?

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I mean that's the least of my problems with.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
You, because actually I will say this, you know what
I would like, let's go back to practical effects people
over CGI similarly here, wouldn't it be nice to just
get three hard ass haptic feedback hard buttons on the
side of a goddamn iPhone that were a guaranteed cut
and paste action? Okay, because I got news for you.
Resting a finger gently and waiting the exact right time

(50:31):
for it to realize that it's like and lifting your
finger and to get it to que it to say paste.
It's not an instrument, you know, it's practically uh in
the ether.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
It's I think they want that they want it to
feel like you're conjuring. Like I think they want there
to be some mystical property to interacting with an I phone.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
No, I know, and I I I continually trying to
move us towards you know, what they call whatever Steve
Job's whole zen thing with Apple, and it's it's false,
you know, because what's Steve Jobs It's all about like
simple elegant solutions, but they're actually like, oh, you're actually
limitations that are like arbitrary, like you know, like the fact,
I mean, I think we've even covered this on poog astonishingly,

(51:07):
but the fact that they're so goddamn slippery, the fact
that a case is required slip actually slippery the art object.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Have you ever like fooled around with an uncased iPhone?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I'm actually concerned. I think we have talked about this
on poop because I absolutely do. Okay, I think I've
told you live free, die hard. Such a risk my
policy of I have a case for the purpose of
the wallet and only Oh.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I had a lucy for a while, and no, you
have to you have to be free.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
It's a sex toy. Essentially. It really feels so taboo
to have an uncased iPhone and I have nothing interesting
to say.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Wait, but I want to finish up a couple of things.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Okay, we got to wrap up here.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, the Ocean mirror work from two episodes ago. There
was something I wanted to say. Uh, I've got all
my notes here, Saltines mirror, North South Possession. I too
lifted a great. I want to say, I too lifted
a great. Yeah, that's a joke. I already said. I
know that was a joke.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Full circle.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
I'd say it was full circle. But full circles are
actually not an archetype. I'm interested in working with the
ora Boros, the snake eating its own tail to that symbol. No,
I am, but here's the key. Sometimes see this oroboros
with the tail stuck completely in its mouth. Sometimes you
see a space between the tail and the mouth that
is not merely an aesthetic choice. Okay, some believe that

(52:26):
when the tail is stuffed in the mouth, that's a
closed system and therefore not good. A closed system of.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Of what's the space? Dogma, what is the space?

Speaker 1 (52:37):
There should always be a space in anything, or it's
a false idle okay, a little space to to. It's
almost like if you can't just prove something, then it's
not provable. Yeah, we all yearn to stuff the tail
in the mouth, but actually there needs to be a space.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Wow, I want to go deeper. That's a whole app
on a Boros.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
We can explore that in a further archetype or a
Boros app could be huge.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Deep for me. I've never heard about this the space.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
I know, no one's heard about it. I'm the only
one because I read it in a book, Okay, and
I can't wait to tell you about the book.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
We have to wrap up, which is really painful that
I've opened.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
But let the space between right now in the next
episode be the space between the tail and the mouth.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Beautiful. That was food. If you enjoyed pood, please subscribe,
rate and review. If not, we will press charges.