October 19, 2020 • 51 mins
Have you ever had a partner who just could not let go of their ex? I’m willing to bet Daphne du Maurier did! This week we continue our discussion of the second Mrs. de Winter and the long shadow of her predecessor, Rebecca.
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In the coming weeks, we'll have Screen Time with the 1940 Alfred Hitchcock adaptation of Rebecca ahead of the Netflix movie, we'll also pick up where we left off with HBO's Lovecraft Country, and we'll start in on our next book, V For Vendetta!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Have you ever had a partner who just could not
let go of their X? I'm willing to bet Daphne
du Maurier did. This is Popcorn Book Club. I'm Danis Schwartz,
joined as always by Jennifer Wright, Kamadunqua, Tan Tran, and
Melissa Hunter, and we're continuing our conversation about the novel.
Rebecca is a very sociopath thing to do. I'm just saying,
(00:26):
it's like, I'm so happy that my husband's going to
murder me and then his life will be ruined. She
knew how to arrange a party, she knew how to
arrange a floral arrangement, she knew how to orchestrate a murder.
I'm realizing now we didn't even talk about the plot,
but there really is very little plot in one sentence.
In one sentence, Uh, the second Mrs de Winter, who's
(00:47):
the narrator we never know, start as a paid companion
to an awful American in Monte Carlo. She meets this
was paid by and doubt I can't wait. That really
so fun. She meets uh, a handsome widower named Max
to Winter, whose first wife died in a mysterious accident
that no one wants to talk about. She goes back
(01:09):
to Manderley, his ancestral home, finds it haunted by the
everyone's memory of how fabulous Rebecca was. And then, as
we mentioned, we find out that she was I don't
want to say sociopath, but had tendencies that the lay
person might call a sociopath. Uh. She and Maxim never
were in love. She was a wild philanderer and had
(01:34):
many lovers, and Mrs Danvers was loyal to her the
entire time. And Max murdered her because she said she
was pregnant with uh Jack's baby. But then spoiler alert twist,
she wasn't actually pregnant. She was never pregnant. She had
uterine cancer I believe, or cancer of some sort. And
so the whole thing, she was trying to gone girl
(01:56):
and trick Max into murdering her so at least she
would go quick and then maybe Mac would get in trouble. Right, Yeah, yeah,
that's good summary. I was like, I'll just do it
super fast, get it out of the way. I was
just gonna say, like the whole gone girl part of it,
it made me really happy that at least Rebecca got
(02:17):
her last joke you know, and that she like died smiling.
It's just so it is a very sociopath thing to do.
I'm just saying, it's like, I'm so happy that my
husband's going to murder me and then his life will
be ruined. But yeah, it was, I mean, it was
very she she got it, she got hers in, she's
gonna die, She's gonna go out for a little. She
(02:38):
knew how to arrange a party, she knew how to
arrange a floral arrangement, do a decorade of room. She
knew how to orchestrate a murder. Side and again, like
I know that the second Mrs de Winter really wants
to believe that Rebecca was a sociopath, and Um and
Maxim and apparently I do too, and Max I really
(03:00):
want as this woman is associate paths. But Max a
list two people that can super confirm that Rebecca was
a sociopath for him, and it's Frank and it's his sister. Um.
His sister does not seem to play into the idea
of like Rebecca was the sociopath, we're also glad she's
Dand his sister calls the second missister went about the phone.
(03:21):
It's like she never would have committed suicide. This is crazy.
You should look into it. That's not the way you
behave if you think, I'm so glad this sociopaths is,
but it was the sociopath. But also think they were murdered.
But I still don't think they do. She deserved to
be murdered. And I also think for me, it was
(03:42):
just about Danny's description of her and made her and
I think I think she hit it. Rebecca even hid
it from the sister. I think the sister was sort
of charmed by her public face but didn't like her
because she maybe slept with her husband. She definitely went
after the husband. So don't think that Beatrice was on herself.
So Beatrice was sort of like I'm sure she was
(04:03):
always like publicly charming to Beatrice, but then like Stuft
with her husband said, she's like, no, I don't like her,
but like she might like she sucks, but like she
was always chilling. Yeah, I think Beatrice and her brother
killed her. I think I don't think so. I think
she's very nice. I thought I thought Beatrice was was
(04:24):
one of the few redeeming characters in the book. Like
she was very, very nice to the new Mrs Dewinter
tried to like help her out whenever she could. When
the whole dress thing happened, she was the only one
who was like, hey girl, come on, let's take this
off till out per minute. Uh. And you know we've
all had that, you know, I have experienced dressing up
(04:46):
for Halloween and becoming a bit of a mess and
then your friend is helping you in contume, which is hilarious.
So the thought of her like running around like in
her fully culturally appropriate apple boy. But oh boy, but
like that image to me is very funny to like
help help a gal pal out when you're like fully
(05:08):
in halloween costume. Is that's fun? Good job? Yeah? Oh yeah?
Can we also just talk more about Mrs dan Verse,
who plis? I think you accurately clocked, Wasn't you said
the most interesting character in the book? Uh? Tian, what
(05:31):
are your what are your dan Verse feelings? I mean,
after after you learn that, like she clearly knows that
this this very close person of her was murdered by
this man. Like the fact that she is even being
remotely chill about it, I'm like, she's really holding it together,
Like I know she's kind of mean and cold to
(05:54):
the Mrs the new Mrs de Winter, but I find
it to be I have a question, do we think
we're sure Mrs Danvers thinks it's murder or did she
actually believe it was a voting accident. I think she believes.
I think it's because like they talk about how Rebecca
is so proficient at sailing that she like she wouldn't
(06:15):
have had mistakes. And I also think that confirmation to
me in retrospect was her having Jack come over when
when Maxim was out and like make sure everyone else
was out because they want to talk ship. They want
to talk it and be like, yeah, she didn't. Like
they want to talk about how she got murdered and
what to do about it, And I think she was
(06:36):
laying in wait, you really don't think it's that. I
think mus really wants to believe that Rebecca had what
would be for her a good death. U that Rebecca
never wanted to grow old, she she was so strong,
like the Mrs Dancrews wants to think the only thing
that could conquer this indomitable woman is she talks about
(07:01):
how like, yeah, she didn't die for a man. The
scene that could take her UM, and I think, as
someone who is Rebecca's mother and maybe love her UM,
that's really tolerable for her. And I think she just
wants to get together with jack because jack Um and
Rebecca had this really close relationship, and she also had
(07:22):
a really close relationship with Rebecca. Like the only way
that they can kind of remember her is if they
get together and tell stories about her, which is sad
but makes perfect sense. And the reason I think all
of this is because if Mrs Andrews had no one
that Maxim killed her, she would have burned down that
house of media, like she would not have weighted until
(07:43):
he was all and I take it back. I also
think that, like, just like you said, that monologue she's
giving when she's suicide murdering the second Mrs de Winter,
she makes it very clear that she thinks it was
an accident. I full believe that Mrs Danvers has some
sort of sexual tension with Rebecca, like that was immediately,
(08:07):
especially in that segment where she talks about how like, oh,
sex was just a game for her, it was all
a game, And I'm like, oh, did you play the
game and lose? Maybe I'm so sorry um. But I
think that Mrs Danvers is fascinating in the art of
psychological warfare in a way that is not fair to
(08:28):
the new Mrs Winter, because it's like she went out
to the battlefield wearing like her fuzzy slippers and Mrs
Danvers is like a trained Amazon warrior from Greek mythology.
It's not a fair fight. And I think that it's
really fascinating to watch that dynamic, and it sort of
mirrors the fact that there's this also uneven dynamic between
(08:50):
Maxim and the new Mrs de Winters, and she's like
at both terms. The person who's supposed to help her
with the household stuff so that she can try and
even out her relations with Maxim is like psychologically trying
to annihilate her. And I find that dynamic really intriguing,
which is why I said I think that there are
some really interesting things about the story. I just did
(09:12):
not like the way that the things were written, and
so I'm excited to see the adaptations. And I think
that's the thing about an adaptation. Sometimes you'll like a
book and not like the movie, and something like a
movie and not like a book. I will say about
dan versus. One thing that I wanted to say about
why I find her so fascinating is this kind of
reframing of her throughout the book. And because in the
(09:33):
beginning she is the ultimate antagonist. She's like the living,
breathing version of like, this is Rebecca's home, I'm going
to make your life a living hell for our narrator.
And I hated her, and you know, I understood she
was pissed, but she's channeling it to the wrong person. Like,
if you're pissed Maxim got over Rebecca so fast, be
(09:55):
mad at Maxim. Don't be mean to this poor girl. Uh,
And that I mean and the fancy dress thing. It's
like the end the day after with her like literally
being like killing herself. But but then it's this whole
flip of like she's realizing, you know, as Jennifer Riley
(10:16):
point out pointed out that that Rebecca did not die
on her own accord, that Maxim killed her. And it's
this building mounting evidence and just this horrible, great new
kind of grief for her, for this mother who like
essentially mother who lost her child. And and then she
(10:37):
becomes kind of the protagonist at the end in a
weird way of like being like, oh, the system is
not going to get this man, so I am going
to ruin his life. And I loved that arc. Nobody
treats her like a mother who lost her child, and
that is infuriating to me. She from acency and people
(10:58):
are all like, oh, dead, you will run the estate.
She's clever, We'll fire her if she doesn't do a
good job for you. Um No, like this, this woman
is clearly clinging to Manderly because it is the last
remnant of her child. That's why I think the psychological
warfare is warned well from from Danny's From Danny's perspective,
(11:20):
Max bring it on. You know her, his beloved wife,
who's the most amazing person in the world dies in
tragic ways. He's almost like good riddens, and then less
than a year later brings home this teenage nobody to
where Rebecca lived. The outrage, Yeah, I just felt like
(11:41):
the outrage was misplaced on this for naive girl, that's like,
what's going on. I'm so sorry for existing and not
being mad at Maxim who like brings you don't know,
you choose, Yeah, just in advance. If I die, your
mysterious circumstances, and Daniel marry somebody else who was nineteen
(12:04):
and under your burned down my fucking house. That went
without saying okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, take it out on
another woman, honestly, for burning down the house of any
man over the age of forty that marries a woman
(12:25):
under the age of twenty, regardless of prior relationships. Just
burn it down. Just burn it. It's not normal. I
don't think that I think that there's something going on there.
I personally think that we should take breaks from this discussion,
much like I took a break from reading the book. Okay,
(12:56):
we're back with Popcorn book Club. On one character that
we haven't mentioned yet, but who I think is also
a Beatrice and it's very sweet, is Frank the property manager. Well,
I love very sweet and very nice to the second
Mrs de Winter. And you get the impression that Rebecca
made unwanted advantage to him and he did not know
(13:18):
how to handle it. He truly did not know. She
was the most beautiful woman I bet creature. But also
he was very complicit in the whole dang thing. I
think he's the only one who really knew what happened.
Uh oh yeah, I guess he did so. I he
(13:41):
did cover a murder. He did. He also seems like
that like the buddy of like the hot, like popular
quarterback that's always like wanting to be like he wants.
Oh yeah, I was thinking of Michael Sarah if they
had made this in two thousand seven. I do like
(14:02):
that him driving her back from the inquest after she
fainted and they're both in the car, not sure if
the other one knows that Maxim murdered her. Yeah, they
both know that Maxim murdered this lady, and they both
want him to get away with it. They have to
communicate that somehow. Okay, we actually, oh my god, there's
(14:25):
woulda be so good with the modern apptation because with
like Instagram, you always know like how beautiful your new
boyfriend or husband's X was. Yeah, yeah, that there was
something when she when she's like, I'm just gonna go
to the West Wing. I'm not gonna look, I'm just
gonna go. It felt like somebody like I'm just gonna
(14:47):
check her Instagram. I'm just gonna look for one second.
I'm not going to go back to two thirteen. Absolutely not.
That's crazy, who would do that? And just to see
her body, what does it say? Oh my gosh, oh
I love it her profile because just like Rebecca's if
all her Instagram is just her on the boat, like
it's just her on the sailing. Rebecca is a wellness
(15:11):
but she writes. She writes thank you notes in fountain
pen with like homemade baked goods that she sends everything
feeling that girl. What's her name? Who started? Who founded
moon Juice? Amanda shawntal Bacon's her? That's that's like. But
I think fundamentally and like the aesthetic of it, I
(15:35):
think she's like very classy like that, like the bo
and the handwritten notes, and like she knows she's like
a handwritten toastess. Has wonderful parties, like themed parties. She's fun. Yeah,
I want her. I want her handwriting as a font.
Like that should be a good marketing campaign for this
because the way they describe it looks gorgeous. Who do
(15:56):
we think the dan Verses in modern modern day? I
think the casting is actually perfect. I think Kristin Stewart
so good. She's going to be really good. Yeah, that's
a very good one. I'm just now I'm really disappointed
that and Owd plays the lady at the beginning, because
(16:16):
she's only at the beginning and I want more and
owed you know, she'll chew up the furniture. They'll just
be like, all right, and Dowd, why don't you do
one for fun like that, she just gets to go
on some runs. Yeah, that this marriage was not gonna
work out. I mean she was. She wasn't wrong, but
(16:38):
she was wrong for the reason she wasn't wrong, you
know what I mean, Like she was being a jealous necessarily,
like looking out for her and being like, hey, sweetie,
I know that you don't have a mom, and I
know that I've been kind of shitty in that respect,
but like, don't marry a dude you met on vacation
three weeks ago. That's really good everyone. Uh look, I
(17:02):
don't know that under normal circumstancesively be though, like otherwise, okay,
if this hadn't happened, No, don't marry a stranger. Don't
marry you got married, Daniel, and I knew we were
getting married very early on. But okay, that's but you
(17:22):
did not marry That's that's a good one. But I
didn't said I was not like a penniless wife who
was being trained to be a companion, which, by the way,
is not a real job. Um whose like the greatest
possibility was I was gonna keep trappling with this lady
(17:43):
and they she's gonna leave you, and they have no skills.
I figured it out the modern day equivalent. Sorry, she's
a personal assistant. She's a personal assistant. Yeah, yeah, that's
a real thing. That's like, okay, yeah, well that was
a thing. Then if Maxim had not been a murderer whatever,
(18:06):
her life had been worse than even if this is
like a loveless, weird marriage with housekeeper who will tell
you to kill yourself. Yeah, her, like she had an
option to just go to maximum. It's like, Okay, this
lady is crazy. She tried to push me out away,
(18:27):
trying to push me out a window. We have to
fire her. We'll hire somebody new. She'll be good too,
It'll be fine. But I think also we forgetting that,
like even before until the murder thing came to light,
Maxim was a terrible husband to her, terrible, but her
life is terrible, and terrible has to accommodate Mrs van Hopper,
(18:47):
who is a terrible boy and who she's very attractive
to Maxim, but like, what if she then meets someone
who treats her he was that bad. I think that
Mrs van Hopper was like kind of a ship employer,
but not in like a completely abusive way like this.
I know I've been using the term psychological warfare, but
(19:08):
I feel like Maximum is also engaging in that to
some degree, in terms of like she's like, oh, well,
he didn't have time to say that he loved me,
I'll say it later. Yeah, look a lot older than he.
But Jennifer, she couldn't meet He's not the last. He
doesn't seem to be great way twenty years and then
(19:29):
you wait, I'm sorry. Was that the defense? Yeah, I
mean she could get someone else to like, and he's
definitely going to Maria Murder and Jennifer Wein did talk
about this, we were texting a little bit. Her devotion
(19:52):
to Maxim is sort of similar to like a Mrs
Danvers to Rebecca, Like she instantly becomes obsessed with acts
and is totally on board and justifies everything he says
and does in a way that is unhealthy. I mean,
it's it's right for her because there was no alternative.
But in a dream world, you stay with Mrs van
Hopper and then meet a nice, normal accountant who treats
(20:15):
you well. She was never going to be is what
the book should have been. This is what the book
should have been. She should have gone to New York
with Mrs van Hopper, and then when she got to
New York, she should have saved up all her money,
left her employ gone out into the city to be
a city gal in New York. And yeah, met a fabulous, wonderful,
(20:39):
mysterious woman who was like a socialite in the New
York City like hot scene named Rebecca, and she learned
how to be a cool it girl from Rebecca. This
is then Rebecca Mysterious. It is very gossip girl. And
then Rebecca mysteriously disappears and it's about her remembering her
(21:01):
friend Rebecca. Hey, Karama, why are you telling this very
good book that you should write. Write that book, everybody.
We need to cut that out, and the need to
write that book from Twilight. Not that, not that it
will be much better than that. But you know, I
(21:22):
love Twilight. Complete meant I loved Twilight. I'm a twyheart,
but I meant fifty great, it's not, you know, but
I will I will say it does feel like this
whole book is, or the beginning of the book is
just like the lesson as trust your instincts, like it,
you know. And she just keeps like, I highlighted this
(21:43):
one little section where it's like, um, then they suddenly
decided to get married in there. It was such an adventure.
I smiled to myself as I had my knees bla.
I was to be Mrs Winter. It was foolish to
go on having that pain in the pit of my
stomach when I was so happy. Nerves, of course, and
I just highlighted it and said, red flag when you
(22:05):
have the nerves in the pit of your stomach, runaway. Yeah.
My mom taught me always trust your gut, and then
she told me several stories of people who were murdered
when they didn't trust their gut. When I was like
a teenager, She's like, so trust your gut otherwise you'll
be murdered. Yeah, that's a good mom. Okay, let's take
a brief moment here for an head break. So we're
(22:35):
back with Popcorn Book Club for My Heart Radio. She
was so obsessed that she was willing to be like,
I'll just I'll just be your friends a dog. I
don't care. I know you're you're still not over. Part
(22:56):
that I did highly that I thought was absolutely crazy
was where she was like in that exact conversation when
she's like, I know you love Rebecca so much, and
he goes, what why would you think I loved Rebecca?
Why would you not red flag? Why would your wife
think that you loved your fabulous ex wife? He's like, what,
(23:22):
you stupid idiot, you thought I loved my wife. Here's
the thing about red flags. I feel like, if there
are some red flags, but there are an exponentially larger
number of green flags, you can kind of forgive some
of the red flags, but maxim to winter at zero
green rich rich, handsome, nice house, rich rich rich rich flags.
(23:49):
That is an economic state of being, that's not a
green flags. I'm just saying those are his only positive attributes.
There's a bow Jack Horseman quote that goes some thing
like when you're looking through looking at the world through
rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags, um,
And I feel like that's what it is. Like. She
was so smitten by this handsome man with a good
(24:13):
jaw line and a and Amanda Manderley that it's like,
I don't know what these flags are there just flags.
I love flags someone giving her attention for the first
time in her life and like talking to her like
an equal and not as a employ And I think
on some levels she wants it, Like she wants the
waiters to be more respectful of her when she's at
(24:36):
the hotel. Dare she doesn't want people just throwing a
cold ham at her. Yeah, that's so very understandable. But
she also hasty of like alright, like I'll skip over
all the hard parts of becoming an adult. It'll just
skip to the part where I'm in my mid thirties
and I'm the lady of the house and everybody respects
(24:58):
me and thinks I'm fabulous. I will say, as someone
who has dated older people, that is like a fantasy
that I share, and it never goes Well, I keep
telling you to stop doing I've stopped. Yeah, enjoy being young, Benome.
It only took five years for you to start listening
to jump in. I only ever dated, I don't think
(25:22):
because the fantasy. Well, I also don't want to pretend
I'm interested in a boyfriend playing video games for like
two hours. Um, you don't like watching boys play video games?
Jen No, And I don't say it comfortable. I'm married now,
it doesn't matter. The secret is out. Yeah. I don't
(25:44):
think Maxim says like one good thing to her. And
I'm like, thinking about back on the book, I don't think.
I don't think he says like one decent or like
even complimentary, like when he proposed to it, he calls
her a silly little fool. He and like even when
he finally tells her that like she has murdered or
(26:05):
he has murdered Rebecca, his like blind that I thought
was very funny was him being like, and I'd make
you a mother, like after never talk about like anything
about their relationship. That's like the first thing that he
There was one scene where she's like, she's like getting
ready to go meet someone, and she was very to
care about it, and she was like, is my like
(26:26):
skirt or harrokaite? And He's like, yeah, whatever, it's fine.
I do you know. I'm looking at the director and
and you know, I'm sure he's very good, but it
I think this movie I wish they had hired a
female director for this movie, because I do think what
I want to experience in a movie like this is
(26:47):
that feeling of being so clouded by infatuation and and
this first feeling of love as a young woman that
you ignore the things that scare you and you ignore
your intuition. And I feel like it's very different the
way you know women being afraid of men like that
(27:11):
is a very real thing that they might kill you,
which in this case he does kills him a woman.
But I just feel like we've a lot of women
have been in this situation of like being totally infatuated
with a very scary bad man, and I feel like
it would be but the feeling of it of like
(27:32):
the twist of like, look at this perfect prince charming
and then like the reality sets in when she goes
to Manderley, Like I love that, and I hope that
that he does service to it. It's such a female story.
I agree. Yeah. I think one of the things that
I noticed and we talked a little bit about it,
Mrs Danvers has all this misplaced rage and disappointment with
(27:56):
Mr de Winter that she then just dumps onto the
new Mrs de Winter, and I think that it's really
interesting how this, even almost a hundred years ago, has
that aspect of women are mean to each other because
they can't be mean to men. And I think that
getting into that, I do wish that there were a
(28:18):
female director because I think that showing that and I'm
not saying that a male director cannot do that. I
mean a man directed Mean Girls, which is a classic
of women meet girls being mean to each other because
they can't be mean to men. Um. But I do
think that there is something about that that is so
ingrained in people who are raised female. Yes, And I
(28:43):
think like the changing the subject slightly from gender. I
think the class issue. I hope that the film covers
that and and dials home because I do think that
is a very important element of the book that's in
mostly in subtext, in the major class and power differential
between Max and his wife and Mrs Danvers and the
(29:07):
restricted behaviors that come with that. Yeah, and I hope
that he hold like this director doesn't make Army Hammer person.
I think they're going they're going to make it a romance. Well,
I think that Army Hammer was kind of shitty, and
I mean, he was very shitty, but I think that
they actually did a good job of showing him as
(29:27):
shitty and sorry to bother you. Yeah, but yeah, but
I hope, I hope that that stays true, because like
there's not there's really nothing charming about Maxim in this book,
and I think it could be really easy for an
adaptation to inject some sort of like charm to him,
(29:50):
so that I hope. A preview for the director said
that he wanted to make Conversion that's more about love,
um and very I mean, it's about exaction in an
interesting way. But Maxim de Winter does not strike me
as sexy. Um. Rebecca strikes me as impossibly so like
(30:14):
just like a woman whom everybody would want to sleep with. Yes,
every Rachel is a great example. Yeah. Um, Maxim strikes
me as frosty and detached and as like Prince Charles
kind of like like this like a sexual like so
well bred that they're just like a non entity. Yeah yeah,
(30:38):
I want to a sexuality. No no, no no, no, so sorry,
that's you're completely correct, um de sexualized when the framing
And but I will say that, like what I like
about the start of the story is that she does
meet him on vacation, and it's all through her perspective,
(31:01):
Like we as the reader, can see that he is
an interesting and perhaps dangerous but we're in her head
of like imagining a life. And I do think I
love the idea of meeting someone on vacation and then
you go back to real life and it's like, oh no,
they suck, like the idea of the prince charming of
Cinderella and then you go back to the palace after
(31:24):
what's supposed to be happily ever after and it's just
terrible and fraught. Um, I mean, none of the Protestants
actually get married. All he all he offers her is
status and did Tristan Yeah, yeah she's still married. Good job,
(31:51):
not that getting divorces a bad job, but married just
yea working good for you. Yeah. Clearly she could listened
to who the people were on the show and paid attention.
I was like, oh, I think that I could build
a life with this person as opposed to this person
is hot. Right now we have the fantasy suite, let's
do this making decisions that I think it was fine.
(32:14):
This episode is sponsored Christ forever. I do think it
was also before the Bachelor became such a property that
it's like you're now an influencer, that's your job. This
was like back before then you became Instagram famous, when
it's like, these are just normal people we have. He's
a pilot or whatever. It's not an Instagram influencer who's
(32:35):
already been on six seasons of The Bachelor. Okay, so
in terms of Bachelor architects, since we're now on the Bachelor,
I don't watch The Bachelor. I have never seen The Bachelor.
I've seen many things about The Bachelor, so I have
a working knowledge of it. But I did watch Unreal
and they have all those different like like wifie villains,
(32:56):
let's get cut all that stuff. Talking about the characters
of this book, the new Mrs de Winter, who do
we think that she is? Do we think she's wifely?
I know that she gets the guy, but I don't
see her as a wife. She's the weird and scure
virgin who and this is Unreal character who like is
too awkward to like wear a bikini on their group
(33:18):
date and get to cut? Yeah, yeah, I love that.
That is absolutely true. And then who's Rebecca? I don't know,
how can we all like she wins. Heaven. We all
know a man who dated incredibly interesting women and then
they break up and then the next woman they date
is like a pale meeting insipid person who like says, oh, asparagus,
(33:45):
I've never seen that before. Sorry, that was kind of question.
Is that plucked from life? That's are like, very very real.
Maybe she lived in a food desert and was not.
It's true, it's very it's you know what, that's so true.
That's like a fertile crescent of produce. And we're also
(34:10):
lucky that we've seen a fracas, but also like maybe
she could have seen it in a picture. It seems
like you just don't like this woman, and this is
kind of you. I do sound you know what. She
sounds like a wet boy, like you know, sometimes you
(34:30):
don't like somebody, and it's like, oh, look at the
way she choose gum horrible. You know, I get a job. Yeah,
when you love someone, they no matter what they do.
I think we hold producer of the show. Is Rebecca
wins the show for sure? Then I think Rebecca's runner up? No,
(34:54):
I think next season, Oh, no up? And then she yes,
I think she wins. But then they break up, but
she then makes it a sob story about how he
dumped her and left her completely blindsided, and then she's bachelorette.
She wouldn't lose a competition. See I think. I think
(35:17):
Rebecca is one of the like hot ones. But then
she starts in like an a fair relationship with one
of the Vietnam and doesn't even did happen. It's happened
in Vietnam, it happened in Australia too. I agree. I
feel like she wants to play the game to win,
(35:37):
and to play the game to win for her is
not getting the man. It's getting to be the next
bachelor at because that will extend the life of her career. Um. Yeah,
and she wants to have control. And so then when
she picks the guy there, it's like, okay, we can
be famous together as long as you don't sunk up
my ship, like I'll put you on my Instagram. I mean,
(35:57):
it's a pretty good deal she made with Maxim. I mean,
she was straightforward about it. She's like, this is the deal.
It wasn't a deal because she kind of forced it
on you. Yeah, that's true. But he was chill about
it because she had like a sex attack by the scene,
like we net All and Shack. He didn't get rid
(36:22):
of it. Yeah, well that's because he can't go down
to it, like it's too horrifying for one Okay, I
mean the tragedy in this book extends to Mrs Danvers
and the second Missister Winter, obviously, but it also extends
to the limitations placed on Rebecca. Like Rebecca is clearly
(36:43):
somebody who if she was alive today would be running
a fortune. Like she wanted the money in the house.
She did not want to have to commit herself to
this one man who was kind of dealt and Danvers said,
like she they always said, you should have been born
a boy and like it. In that time, It's like
that's the only way she could have lived the independent
(37:05):
life she desired was to be a man. She had
to marry well in order to have the life that
she wanted. And it's again why I don't know how
much better the second this is de Wint's life would
have been if she had a very maxim like maybe
she would have met a nice person in New York
that she made it pretty she met she win. Yes,
(37:27):
she made it clear she was not interested in those
man that she hated younger man who were always asking
her like do you like hot music? Yeah? I understandably
she doesn't want to go out to jazz clubs. Yeah.
She wasn't looking for a nice boy. She wanted a daddy,
a murder daddy, a murder daddy. I think, Jennifer, that's
(37:50):
really poignant with Rebecca is like, yeah, she wanted a
certain life that if she was a man, would have
been allowed to live, which is just like throw amazing
parties and have sex with whoever you want. Yeah, Jay Gatsby, Yeah,
the sex with whoever you want, because he just wants
to have sex. Yeah, and he just wants to have
(38:12):
sex with his shirts. But but if but if Jay
was Rebecca, he would be hot enough to seduce her. Yeah.
Perhaps perhaps Indeed. I have thoroughly enjoyed this, uh, the
intellectual discourse of the Bachelor and which people they would be.
And I want to thank you all for going down
that road with me. And who would Maximate, Oh, he
(38:36):
would have been cut in the first episode. I think
I think they would have made Maxim would be a
bachelor that you're like, this dude's a third string quarterback.
For an NFL. I think that anybody's hands on the
producers would have realized, osh it, he's so boring. We
have to cut around him and make the women really
(38:56):
interesting and seem toxic because he has nothing to offer
up but he's Yeah. I think if Maxim were on
the Bachelorette, he would make it through the first couple
of rounds of cuts, but then he would get into
a huge fist fight with another person with another contestant,
and then he wouldn't get cut. He would leave in
(39:17):
a huff, and then he would do like an expose
on about what really happened. I don't know. I think
he talked about his house incessantly and it might get
him to the episode where they go home to meet
the family, because and the producers really wanted. And I
(39:38):
also think he would still be a widow, which would
be really interesting on the Bachelor, Like that's the whole angle,
and he would be able to use that as like
she's like, oh, he needs a new a new wife,
and I need a murder daddy. So it would work
out for a while. One quick question when he is
murdering her and she's like, I'm pregnant with Jack's baby.
(39:58):
What you're gonna do about it? I'm gonna raise him
a mander, Like, um, is he so scared? Like could
he not get a divorce? Like I know the scandal
was that she would turn everyone against him, but he
literally was like that scandal was so outrageous to him
that he had to uh murder her. The one thing
that the Second Winter have in common. Obsessed with how
(40:22):
other people might. Yeah, Remeba does not seem to like
Rebecca will suck people in cottage any day because she's like,
I will turn people against you when we get divorced.
It's like she had waries, he had her moonlight, the
moonlight picnics. Okay, that's an orgy. I mean, I feel
like he made that choice because again patriarchy, he knew, Like,
(40:46):
I think he knows he could get away with this.
He is like the epitome of that. The town centers
around him, and like they all want to be in
good with Maxim the like magistrate and like all of
those men and so like, I think he did it
because he knew he could. Divorce would be a scandal. Yeah,
a divorce would be I think that if she was Indeed,
(41:09):
because we have to remember, he genuinely believes that she's pregnant.
Her pregnancy and therefore the air is still legitimate even
if he divorces her. Right, I don't pretend to know
how upper white people lived in England. I think I
think that's us made it clear that Jack was her
(41:30):
lover and it was Jack's baby, and maximum Hannah slept
those three years, which might happen like Jack seems just
think if he going to get married. Also, before you
murder her, get a second opinion or a first opinion. Well,
she knew, I mean, that's the whole thing. She knew
exactly what she was doing. She knew exactly what to say,
(41:51):
and that would corner him because she knows that he
deep down he's a bad murder guy, and that like
he cares about the status and Manderley more than he
cares about her life. And and so she taunted him
into it. I wonder was and maybe this is obvious,
(42:14):
but I hadn't really thought about until now. The letter
to Jack was that so that um Jack would discover
Maxim and he would go to prison. Yes, I never
thought about that. That's great that come to the moon
(42:35):
like cottage and maybe you would catch him in the act.
Or it could be that she really genuinely was going
to tell him that she had like cancer because she
did to some extent care about him and he was
her cousin. Yeah, yeah, well maybe maybe it was more
in retrospect. Maybe when Maxim came down there, she was
(42:57):
saying all this because because you're right, like Maxim would
get away with it, but he but Rebecca probably thinks
Jack is coming up here. He I'm going to get
him to kill me, and then he's going to get caught.
He doesn't think he's gonna get caught, but he's gonna
get caught. And stupid, stupid Jack had like a drinking night, right,
Yeah he was alcohol Boys. You know, when if your
(43:22):
alcohol consumption gets in the way of you stopping your
lover cousin's murder, you might want to get to a
meeting or talk to a dop. That's when you know
it's that's your rough bottom when when Rebecca's where Rebecca's
body is on rock bottle. I did love the name
of the boat was I returned perfect spooky detail, Johivian.
(43:47):
I didn't even want to try the French, so thank you.
This is also I don't know if you guys have
read Jane Eyre, but like Jane Eyre is another one
where a husband treats his first wife appallingly and then
we're sort of ok, yeah, like yeah, she has such
fiery blood, Oh my god, and the house also burned down. Ye. Well,
(44:10):
actually there was talk, so I don't know if you
all heard about this, but I did some reading on
Daphne and she was accused of plagiarism by a Brazilian
author named Carolina Nabuco, who wrote a book called a
success aora Um in nineteen thirty four, which was I
(44:30):
believe three or four years before Rebecca was published, and um.
One of the things that she kind of used to
her advantage when she was accused of this plagiarism was well,
Jane Eyre deals with similar things, like it's not a
new idea, but like it was a whole situation where
Carolina Nabuco was like, I'm not going to sign any
(44:52):
of the paperwork that your agents keep sending to me,
saying that the coincidences are just coincidences, like the similarities
are real, and you plagiarized me and Daphne Dumourier actually
wrote to the New York Times because the New York
Times had suggested that it was maybe plagiarized in their
review of Rebecca, and she wrote a letter to the
editor and she's like, can you not excuse you? And
(45:16):
she was like, maybe it was just a coincidence because
we're dealing with similar themes. Did you ever think about that? Like,
do you even think bro Um? And I mean, this
book is exactly like that. It is, Honestly, if it's
plagiarized from anything, it's Jane Eyre, which is that you
fall in love with an older, mysterious man who's very
cold to you find out he was an asshole to
(45:37):
his first wife, who was crazy. It's all her fault.
She deserved it. And then the house burns down and
a success Saura. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong because I
do not speak Portuguese, but that was also adapted. It
was adapted into a telenovela in the seventies worth checking out,
especially if anyone speaks Portuguese or can read Portuguese. That
(46:00):
would be fun. Yeah, I did not know that. I
also wrote The Birds, just getting all of his Yeah, yeah,
when I started reading it. When I started reading it.
I was like, yeah, no, she she wrote the birds.
This is the same plodding. Oh no. I read The
(46:22):
Birds after I finished this because I'm so excited, and uh,
it's so much better than the movie. I liked it
so much. It was It's very short. It's a really
like little quick short story that we'll keep you awake
at night. So it's great. Question does it doesn't vilify
birds as much as the movie? Because I like birds
(46:46):
a lot, and I feel like the birds are unfairly
maligned by the films birds. If you relate two in
the book the humans say are murdering, I would say
it would out her Win Birch for you. If you
say this when you're like, yeah, I must see golf,
then yeah, it's a great moment for you. It's like
(47:07):
a moment from the Birch Rise office. Okay, I do
like bird solidarity. Birds aren't time is now? Yeah? Send
it there. Like, just because there are some murdering birds
in one book doesn't mean all birds are murderers, you know,
Like right, it's okay, think about it like a zombie apocalypse. Yeah,
(47:32):
house birds are not murderers, but in this book they
all become murderers, and you know, I appreciate you assuaging
my fears. I follow the Audubon Society on Twitter like
a you and Jonathan Brandon. At least, don't ever compare
me to Jonathan for you do you go bird watch?
Do you go bird watching? I do not go birdwatching.
(47:53):
But okay, so you know those scooters that were everywhere
bird scooters? Yeah, I went to those are not birds. No.
I went to acting class and my scene partner was like, hey,
how are you? And I was like, I'm good. How
was your weekend? And he was like, oh, I went
birding this weekend And I was like really, And I
didn't know that he meant like riding a bird scooter.
I thought he went bird watching. And then he thought
(48:15):
I was a nerd because I was like, tell me
about the birds you saw? You know movie that I
watched on a plane called The Big Year. It's just
about um the year when um. I guess people in
the Audubon Society all try to see how many birds
they watch? Me here, you like birds and bird watching?
You got? I watched it on a plane. It was
(48:37):
pretty pleasant. Dyna made fun of me once because I
had pet birds growing up. Yeah, I think I don't.
I don't think birds belong in homes, pet belongs, but
birds can fly. Okay, No, my my ex girlfriend had
a bird, and I then it was weird it about it,
(49:00):
So I think you mean, I mean they scare but
we did. We didn't have a bird that was that
we had to give away to a bird sanctuary because
honey Pie, who had named her, turned out to be
a male bird who was that we didn't know for
years was a male bird and was squawking all the
time because he was horny and needed to mate um.
(49:23):
And so honey Pie went to a bird he got made,
which is better because we also had cats, and those
cats terrorized poor Honeypie. What if we all wrote an
adaptation of the birds, but it's the scooters. It's a
modern adaptation, and the scooters are coming to kill you.
Why are we giving away this gold on air sand
(49:46):
might cut that out? Imagine how terrifying, Imagine how terrifying
it would be to see a barrage of bird scooters
coming at you with no riders, just like I'm already
seeing the handlebars like treated like eyes. So they may
come across the court like they peer around a corner
and just like come at you, I'm gonna write. I'll
write it, I'll write it all write Okay, great, great, great.
(50:12):
That's our show for the week. Thank you so much
for listening. I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me
on Twitter at Danis Schwartz with three z s. You
can follow Jennifer Wright at jen Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua
is at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa ft
W and Tian Tran is smart enough to have gotten
off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Hank Tina.
(50:33):
Our executive producer is Christopher Hessiotis and we're produced and
edited by Mike John's special thanks to David Wasserman. Next
week it'll be screen time. We'll take a look at
Alfred Hitchcock's film adaptation of Rebecca, and if you want
to plan ahead, we'll be watching the rest of Lovecraft
Country on HBO and then moving on to V for Vendetta.
(50:56):
Popcorn Book Club is a production of I Heart Radio
Have you ever had a partner who just could not
let go of their X? I'm willing to bet Daphne
du Maurier did. This is Popcorn Book Club. I'm Danis Schwartz,
joined as always by Jennifer Wright, Kamadunqua, Tan Tran, and
Melissa Hunter, and we're continuing our conversation about the novel.
Rebecca is a very sociopath thing to do. I'm just saying,
(00:26):
it's like, I'm so happy that my husband's going to
murder me and then his life will be ruined. She
knew how to arrange a party, she knew how to
arrange a floral arrangement, she knew how to orchestrate a murder.
I'm realizing now we didn't even talk about the plot,
but there really is very little plot in one sentence.
In one sentence, Uh, the second Mrs de Winter, who's
(00:47):
the narrator we never know, start as a paid companion
to an awful American in Monte Carlo. She meets this
was paid by and doubt I can't wait. That really
so fun. She meets uh, a handsome widower named Max
to Winter, whose first wife died in a mysterious accident
that no one wants to talk about. She goes back
(01:09):
to Manderley, his ancestral home, finds it haunted by the
everyone's memory of how fabulous Rebecca was. And then, as
we mentioned, we find out that she was I don't
want to say sociopath, but had tendencies that the lay
person might call a sociopath. Uh. She and Maxim never
were in love. She was a wild philanderer and had
(01:34):
many lovers, and Mrs Danvers was loyal to her the
entire time. And Max murdered her because she said she
was pregnant with uh Jack's baby. But then spoiler alert twist,
she wasn't actually pregnant. She was never pregnant. She had
uterine cancer I believe, or cancer of some sort. And
so the whole thing, she was trying to gone girl
(01:56):
and trick Max into murdering her so at least she
would go quick and then maybe Mac would get in trouble. Right, Yeah, yeah,
that's good summary. I was like, I'll just do it
super fast, get it out of the way. I was
just gonna say, like the whole gone girl part of it,
it made me really happy that at least Rebecca got
(02:17):
her last joke you know, and that she like died smiling.
It's just so it is a very sociopath thing to do.
I'm just saying, it's like, I'm so happy that my
husband's going to murder me and then his life will
be ruined. But yeah, it was, I mean, it was
very she she got it, she got hers in, she's
gonna die, She's gonna go out for a little. She
(02:38):
knew how to arrange a party, she knew how to
arrange a floral arrangement, do a decorade of room. She
knew how to orchestrate a murder. Side and again, like
I know that the second Mrs de Winter really wants
to believe that Rebecca was a sociopath, and Um and
Maxim and apparently I do too, and Max I really
(03:00):
want as this woman is associate paths. But Max a
list two people that can super confirm that Rebecca was
a sociopath for him, and it's Frank and it's his sister. Um.
His sister does not seem to play into the idea
of like Rebecca was the sociopath, we're also glad she's
Dand his sister calls the second missister went about the phone.
(03:21):
It's like she never would have committed suicide. This is crazy.
You should look into it. That's not the way you
behave if you think, I'm so glad this sociopaths is,
but it was the sociopath. But also think they were murdered.
But I still don't think they do. She deserved to
be murdered. And I also think for me, it was
(03:42):
just about Danny's description of her and made her and
I think I think she hit it. Rebecca even hid
it from the sister. I think the sister was sort
of charmed by her public face but didn't like her
because she maybe slept with her husband. She definitely went
after the husband. So don't think that Beatrice was on herself.
So Beatrice was sort of like I'm sure she was
(04:03):
always like publicly charming to Beatrice, but then like Stuft
with her husband said, she's like, no, I don't like her,
but like she might like she sucks, but like she
was always chilling. Yeah, I think Beatrice and her brother
killed her. I think I don't think so. I think
she's very nice. I thought I thought Beatrice was was
(04:24):
one of the few redeeming characters in the book. Like
she was very, very nice to the new Mrs Dewinter
tried to like help her out whenever she could. When
the whole dress thing happened, she was the only one
who was like, hey girl, come on, let's take this
off till out per minute. Uh. And you know we've
all had that, you know, I have experienced dressing up
(04:46):
for Halloween and becoming a bit of a mess and
then your friend is helping you in contume, which is hilarious.
So the thought of her like running around like in
her fully culturally appropriate apple boy. But oh boy, but
like that image to me is very funny to like
help help a gal pal out when you're like fully
(05:08):
in halloween costume. Is that's fun? Good job? Yeah? Oh yeah?
Can we also just talk more about Mrs dan Verse,
who plis? I think you accurately clocked, Wasn't you said
the most interesting character in the book? Uh? Tian, what
(05:31):
are your what are your dan Verse feelings? I mean,
after after you learn that, like she clearly knows that
this this very close person of her was murdered by
this man. Like the fact that she is even being
remotely chill about it, I'm like, she's really holding it together,
Like I know she's kind of mean and cold to
(05:54):
the Mrs the new Mrs de Winter, but I find
it to be I have a question, do we think
we're sure Mrs Danvers thinks it's murder or did she
actually believe it was a voting accident. I think she believes.
I think it's because like they talk about how Rebecca
is so proficient at sailing that she like she wouldn't
(06:15):
have had mistakes. And I also think that confirmation to
me in retrospect was her having Jack come over when
when Maxim was out and like make sure everyone else
was out because they want to talk ship. They want
to talk it and be like, yeah, she didn't. Like
they want to talk about how she got murdered and
what to do about it, And I think she was
(06:36):
laying in wait, you really don't think it's that. I
think mus really wants to believe that Rebecca had what
would be for her a good death. U that Rebecca
never wanted to grow old, she she was so strong,
like the Mrs Dancrews wants to think the only thing
that could conquer this indomitable woman is she talks about
(07:01):
how like, yeah, she didn't die for a man. The
scene that could take her UM, and I think, as
someone who is Rebecca's mother and maybe love her UM,
that's really tolerable for her. And I think she just
wants to get together with jack because jack Um and
Rebecca had this really close relationship, and she also had
(07:22):
a really close relationship with Rebecca. Like the only way
that they can kind of remember her is if they
get together and tell stories about her, which is sad
but makes perfect sense. And the reason I think all
of this is because if Mrs Andrews had no one
that Maxim killed her, she would have burned down that
house of media, like she would not have weighted until
(07:43):
he was all and I take it back. I also
think that, like, just like you said, that monologue she's
giving when she's suicide murdering the second Mrs de Winter,
she makes it very clear that she thinks it was
an accident. I full believe that Mrs Danvers has some
sort of sexual tension with Rebecca, like that was immediately,
(08:07):
especially in that segment where she talks about how like, oh,
sex was just a game for her, it was all
a game, And I'm like, oh, did you play the
game and lose? Maybe I'm so sorry um. But I
think that Mrs Danvers is fascinating in the art of
psychological warfare in a way that is not fair to
(08:28):
the new Mrs Winter, because it's like she went out
to the battlefield wearing like her fuzzy slippers and Mrs
Danvers is like a trained Amazon warrior from Greek mythology.
It's not a fair fight. And I think that it's
really fascinating to watch that dynamic, and it sort of
mirrors the fact that there's this also uneven dynamic between
(08:50):
Maxim and the new Mrs de Winters, and she's like
at both terms. The person who's supposed to help her
with the household stuff so that she can try and
even out her relations with Maxim is like psychologically trying
to annihilate her. And I find that dynamic really intriguing,
which is why I said I think that there are
some really interesting things about the story. I just did
(09:12):
not like the way that the things were written, and
so I'm excited to see the adaptations. And I think
that's the thing about an adaptation. Sometimes you'll like a
book and not like the movie, and something like a
movie and not like a book. I will say about
dan versus. One thing that I wanted to say about
why I find her so fascinating is this kind of
reframing of her throughout the book. And because in the
(09:33):
beginning she is the ultimate antagonist. She's like the living,
breathing version of like, this is Rebecca's home, I'm going
to make your life a living hell for our narrator.
And I hated her, and you know, I understood she
was pissed, but she's channeling it to the wrong person. Like,
if you're pissed Maxim got over Rebecca so fast, be
(09:55):
mad at Maxim. Don't be mean to this poor girl. Uh,
And that I mean and the fancy dress thing. It's
like the end the day after with her like literally
being like killing herself. But but then it's this whole
flip of like she's realizing, you know, as Jennifer Riley
(10:16):
point out pointed out that that Rebecca did not die
on her own accord, that Maxim killed her. And it's
this building mounting evidence and just this horrible, great new
kind of grief for her, for this mother who like
essentially mother who lost her child. And and then she
(10:37):
becomes kind of the protagonist at the end in a
weird way of like being like, oh, the system is
not going to get this man, so I am going
to ruin his life. And I loved that arc. Nobody
treats her like a mother who lost her child, and
that is infuriating to me. She from acency and people
(10:58):
are all like, oh, dead, you will run the estate.
She's clever, We'll fire her if she doesn't do a
good job for you. Um No, like this, this woman
is clearly clinging to Manderly because it is the last
remnant of her child. That's why I think the psychological
warfare is warned well from from Danny's From Danny's perspective,
(11:20):
Max bring it on. You know her, his beloved wife,
who's the most amazing person in the world dies in
tragic ways. He's almost like good riddens, and then less
than a year later brings home this teenage nobody to
where Rebecca lived. The outrage, Yeah, I just felt like
(11:41):
the outrage was misplaced on this for naive girl, that's like,
what's going on. I'm so sorry for existing and not
being mad at Maxim who like brings you don't know,
you choose, Yeah, just in advance. If I die, your
mysterious circumstances, and Daniel marry somebody else who was nineteen
(12:04):
and under your burned down my fucking house. That went
without saying okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, take it out on
another woman, honestly, for burning down the house of any
man over the age of forty that marries a woman
(12:25):
under the age of twenty, regardless of prior relationships. Just
burn it down. Just burn it. It's not normal. I
don't think that I think that there's something going on there.
I personally think that we should take breaks from this discussion,
much like I took a break from reading the book. Okay,
(12:56):
we're back with Popcorn book Club. On one character that
we haven't mentioned yet, but who I think is also
a Beatrice and it's very sweet, is Frank the property manager. Well,
I love very sweet and very nice to the second
Mrs de Winter. And you get the impression that Rebecca
made unwanted advantage to him and he did not know
(13:18):
how to handle it. He truly did not know. She
was the most beautiful woman I bet creature. But also
he was very complicit in the whole dang thing. I
think he's the only one who really knew what happened.
Uh oh yeah, I guess he did so. I he
(13:41):
did cover a murder. He did. He also seems like
that like the buddy of like the hot, like popular
quarterback that's always like wanting to be like he wants.
Oh yeah, I was thinking of Michael Sarah if they
had made this in two thousand seven. I do like
(14:02):
that him driving her back from the inquest after she
fainted and they're both in the car, not sure if
the other one knows that Maxim murdered her. Yeah, they
both know that Maxim murdered this lady, and they both
want him to get away with it. They have to
communicate that somehow. Okay, we actually, oh my god, there's
(14:25):
woulda be so good with the modern apptation because with
like Instagram, you always know like how beautiful your new
boyfriend or husband's X was. Yeah, yeah, that there was
something when she when she's like, I'm just gonna go
to the West Wing. I'm not gonna look, I'm just
gonna go. It felt like somebody like I'm just gonna
(14:47):
check her Instagram. I'm just gonna look for one second.
I'm not going to go back to two thirteen. Absolutely not.
That's crazy, who would do that? And just to see
her body, what does it say? Oh my gosh, oh
I love it her profile because just like Rebecca's if
all her Instagram is just her on the boat, like
it's just her on the sailing. Rebecca is a wellness
(15:11):
but she writes. She writes thank you notes in fountain
pen with like homemade baked goods that she sends everything
feeling that girl. What's her name? Who started? Who founded
moon Juice? Amanda shawntal Bacon's her? That's that's like. But
I think fundamentally and like the aesthetic of it, I
(15:35):
think she's like very classy like that, like the bo
and the handwritten notes, and like she knows she's like
a handwritten toastess. Has wonderful parties, like themed parties. She's fun. Yeah,
I want her. I want her handwriting as a font.
Like that should be a good marketing campaign for this
because the way they describe it looks gorgeous. Who do
(15:56):
we think the dan Verses in modern modern day? I
think the casting is actually perfect. I think Kristin Stewart
so good. She's going to be really good. Yeah, that's
a very good one. I'm just now I'm really disappointed
that and Owd plays the lady at the beginning, because
(16:16):
she's only at the beginning and I want more and
owed you know, she'll chew up the furniture. They'll just
be like, all right, and Dowd, why don't you do
one for fun like that, she just gets to go
on some runs. Yeah, that this marriage was not gonna
work out. I mean she was. She wasn't wrong, but
(16:38):
she was wrong for the reason she wasn't wrong, you
know what I mean, Like she was being a jealous necessarily,
like looking out for her and being like, hey, sweetie,
I know that you don't have a mom, and I
know that I've been kind of shitty in that respect,
but like, don't marry a dude you met on vacation
three weeks ago. That's really good everyone. Uh look, I
(17:02):
don't know that under normal circumstancesively be though, like otherwise, okay,
if this hadn't happened, No, don't marry a stranger. Don't
marry you got married, Daniel, and I knew we were
getting married very early on. But okay, that's but you
(17:22):
did not marry That's that's a good one. But I
didn't said I was not like a penniless wife who
was being trained to be a companion, which, by the way,
is not a real job. Um whose like the greatest
possibility was I was gonna keep trappling with this lady
(17:43):
and they she's gonna leave you, and they have no skills.
I figured it out the modern day equivalent. Sorry, she's
a personal assistant. She's a personal assistant. Yeah, yeah, that's
a real thing. That's like, okay, yeah, well that was
a thing. Then if Maxim had not been a murderer whatever,
(18:06):
her life had been worse than even if this is
like a loveless, weird marriage with housekeeper who will tell
you to kill yourself. Yeah, her, like she had an
option to just go to maximum. It's like, Okay, this
lady is crazy. She tried to push me out away,
(18:27):
trying to push me out a window. We have to
fire her. We'll hire somebody new. She'll be good too,
It'll be fine. But I think also we forgetting that,
like even before until the murder thing came to light,
Maxim was a terrible husband to her, terrible, but her
life is terrible, and terrible has to accommodate Mrs van Hopper,
(18:47):
who is a terrible boy and who she's very attractive
to Maxim, but like, what if she then meets someone
who treats her he was that bad. I think that
Mrs van Hopper was like kind of a ship employer,
but not in like a completely abusive way like this.
I know I've been using the term psychological warfare, but
(19:08):
I feel like Maximum is also engaging in that to
some degree, in terms of like she's like, oh, well,
he didn't have time to say that he loved me,
I'll say it later. Yeah, look a lot older than he.
But Jennifer, she couldn't meet He's not the last. He
doesn't seem to be great way twenty years and then
(19:29):
you wait, I'm sorry. Was that the defense? Yeah, I
mean she could get someone else to like, and he's
definitely going to Maria Murder and Jennifer Wein did talk
about this, we were texting a little bit. Her devotion
(19:52):
to Maxim is sort of similar to like a Mrs
Danvers to Rebecca, Like she instantly becomes obsessed with acts
and is totally on board and justifies everything he says
and does in a way that is unhealthy. I mean,
it's it's right for her because there was no alternative.
But in a dream world, you stay with Mrs van
Hopper and then meet a nice, normal accountant who treats
(20:15):
you well. She was never going to be is what
the book should have been. This is what the book
should have been. She should have gone to New York
with Mrs van Hopper, and then when she got to
New York, she should have saved up all her money,
left her employ gone out into the city to be
a city gal in New York. And yeah, met a fabulous, wonderful,
(20:39):
mysterious woman who was like a socialite in the New
York City like hot scene named Rebecca, and she learned
how to be a cool it girl from Rebecca. This
is then Rebecca Mysterious. It is very gossip girl. And
then Rebecca mysteriously disappears and it's about her remembering her
(21:01):
friend Rebecca. Hey, Karama, why are you telling this very
good book that you should write. Write that book, everybody.
We need to cut that out, and the need to
write that book from Twilight. Not that, not that it
will be much better than that. But you know, I
(21:22):
love Twilight. Complete meant I loved Twilight. I'm a twyheart,
but I meant fifty great, it's not, you know, but
I will I will say it does feel like this
whole book is, or the beginning of the book is
just like the lesson as trust your instincts, like it,
you know. And she just keeps like, I highlighted this
(21:43):
one little section where it's like, um, then they suddenly
decided to get married in there. It was such an adventure.
I smiled to myself as I had my knees bla.
I was to be Mrs Winter. It was foolish to
go on having that pain in the pit of my
stomach when I was so happy. Nerves, of course, and
I just highlighted it and said, red flag when you
(22:05):
have the nerves in the pit of your stomach, runaway. Yeah.
My mom taught me always trust your gut, and then
she told me several stories of people who were murdered
when they didn't trust their gut. When I was like
a teenager, She's like, so trust your gut otherwise you'll
be murdered. Yeah, that's a good mom. Okay, let's take
a brief moment here for an head break. So we're
(22:35):
back with Popcorn Book Club for My Heart Radio. She
was so obsessed that she was willing to be like,
I'll just I'll just be your friends a dog. I
don't care. I know you're you're still not over. Part
(22:56):
that I did highly that I thought was absolutely crazy
was where she was like in that exact conversation when
she's like, I know you love Rebecca so much, and
he goes, what why would you think I loved Rebecca?
Why would you not red flag? Why would your wife
think that you loved your fabulous ex wife? He's like, what,
(23:22):
you stupid idiot, you thought I loved my wife. Here's
the thing about red flags. I feel like, if there
are some red flags, but there are an exponentially larger
number of green flags, you can kind of forgive some
of the red flags, but maxim to winter at zero
green rich rich, handsome, nice house, rich rich rich rich flags.
(23:49):
That is an economic state of being, that's not a
green flags. I'm just saying those are his only positive attributes.
There's a bow Jack Horseman quote that goes some thing
like when you're looking through looking at the world through
rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags, um,
And I feel like that's what it is. Like. She
was so smitten by this handsome man with a good
(24:13):
jaw line and a and Amanda Manderley that it's like,
I don't know what these flags are there just flags.
I love flags someone giving her attention for the first
time in her life and like talking to her like
an equal and not as a employ And I think
on some levels she wants it, Like she wants the
waiters to be more respectful of her when she's at
(24:36):
the hotel. Dare she doesn't want people just throwing a
cold ham at her. Yeah, that's so very understandable. But
she also hasty of like alright, like I'll skip over
all the hard parts of becoming an adult. It'll just
skip to the part where I'm in my mid thirties
and I'm the lady of the house and everybody respects
(24:58):
me and thinks I'm fabulous. I will say, as someone
who has dated older people, that is like a fantasy
that I share, and it never goes Well, I keep
telling you to stop doing I've stopped. Yeah, enjoy being young, Benome.
It only took five years for you to start listening
to jump in. I only ever dated, I don't think
(25:22):
because the fantasy. Well, I also don't want to pretend
I'm interested in a boyfriend playing video games for like
two hours. Um, you don't like watching boys play video games?
Jen No, And I don't say it comfortable. I'm married now,
it doesn't matter. The secret is out. Yeah. I don't
(25:44):
think Maxim says like one good thing to her. And
I'm like, thinking about back on the book, I don't think.
I don't think he says like one decent or like
even complimentary, like when he proposed to it, he calls
her a silly little fool. He and like even when
he finally tells her that like she has murdered or
(26:05):
he has murdered Rebecca, his like blind that I thought
was very funny was him being like, and I'd make
you a mother, like after never talk about like anything
about their relationship. That's like the first thing that he
There was one scene where she's like, she's like getting
ready to go meet someone, and she was very to
care about it, and she was like, is my like
(26:26):
skirt or harrokaite? And He's like, yeah, whatever, it's fine.
I do you know. I'm looking at the director and
and you know, I'm sure he's very good, but it
I think this movie I wish they had hired a
female director for this movie, because I do think what
I want to experience in a movie like this is
(26:47):
that feeling of being so clouded by infatuation and and
this first feeling of love as a young woman that
you ignore the things that scare you and you ignore
your intuition. And I feel like it's very different the
way you know women being afraid of men like that
(27:11):
is a very real thing that they might kill you,
which in this case he does kills him a woman.
But I just feel like we've a lot of women
have been in this situation of like being totally infatuated
with a very scary bad man, and I feel like
it would be but the feeling of it of like
(27:32):
the twist of like, look at this perfect prince charming
and then like the reality sets in when she goes
to Manderley, Like I love that, and I hope that
that he does service to it. It's such a female story.
I agree. Yeah. I think one of the things that
I noticed and we talked a little bit about it,
Mrs Danvers has all this misplaced rage and disappointment with
(27:56):
Mr de Winter that she then just dumps onto the
new Mrs de Winter, and I think that it's really
interesting how this, even almost a hundred years ago, has
that aspect of women are mean to each other because
they can't be mean to men. And I think that
getting into that, I do wish that there were a
(28:18):
female director because I think that showing that and I'm
not saying that a male director cannot do that. I
mean a man directed Mean Girls, which is a classic
of women meet girls being mean to each other because
they can't be mean to men. Um. But I do
think that there is something about that that is so
ingrained in people who are raised female. Yes, And I
(28:43):
think like the changing the subject slightly from gender. I
think the class issue. I hope that the film covers
that and and dials home because I do think that
is a very important element of the book that's in
mostly in subtext, in the major class and power differential
between Max and his wife and Mrs Danvers and the
(29:07):
restricted behaviors that come with that. Yeah, and I hope
that he hold like this director doesn't make Army Hammer person.
I think they're going they're going to make it a romance. Well,
I think that Army Hammer was kind of shitty, and
I mean, he was very shitty, but I think that
they actually did a good job of showing him as
(29:27):
shitty and sorry to bother you. Yeah, but yeah, but
I hope, I hope that that stays true, because like
there's not there's really nothing charming about Maxim in this book,
and I think it could be really easy for an
adaptation to inject some sort of like charm to him,
(29:50):
so that I hope. A preview for the director said
that he wanted to make Conversion that's more about love,
um and very I mean, it's about exaction in an
interesting way. But Maxim de Winter does not strike me
as sexy. Um. Rebecca strikes me as impossibly so like
(30:14):
just like a woman whom everybody would want to sleep with. Yes,
every Rachel is a great example. Yeah. Um, Maxim strikes
me as frosty and detached and as like Prince Charles
kind of like like this like a sexual like so
well bred that they're just like a non entity. Yeah yeah,
(30:38):
I want to a sexuality. No no, no no, no, so sorry,
that's you're completely correct, um de sexualized when the framing
And but I will say that, like what I like
about the start of the story is that she does
meet him on vacation, and it's all through her perspective,
(31:01):
Like we as the reader, can see that he is
an interesting and perhaps dangerous but we're in her head
of like imagining a life. And I do think I
love the idea of meeting someone on vacation and then
you go back to real life and it's like, oh no,
they suck, like the idea of the prince charming of
Cinderella and then you go back to the palace after
(31:24):
what's supposed to be happily ever after and it's just
terrible and fraught. Um, I mean, none of the Protestants
actually get married. All he all he offers her is
status and did Tristan Yeah, yeah she's still married. Good job,
(31:51):
not that getting divorces a bad job, but married just
yea working good for you. Yeah. Clearly she could listened
to who the people were on the show and paid attention.
I was like, oh, I think that I could build
a life with this person as opposed to this person
is hot. Right now we have the fantasy suite, let's
do this making decisions that I think it was fine.
(32:14):
This episode is sponsored Christ forever. I do think it
was also before the Bachelor became such a property that
it's like you're now an influencer, that's your job. This
was like back before then you became Instagram famous, when
it's like, these are just normal people we have. He's
a pilot or whatever. It's not an Instagram influencer who's
(32:35):
already been on six seasons of The Bachelor. Okay, so
in terms of Bachelor architects, since we're now on the Bachelor,
I don't watch The Bachelor. I have never seen The Bachelor.
I've seen many things about The Bachelor, so I have
a working knowledge of it. But I did watch Unreal
and they have all those different like like wifie villains,
(32:56):
let's get cut all that stuff. Talking about the characters
of this book, the new Mrs de Winter, who do
we think that she is? Do we think she's wifely?
I know that she gets the guy, but I don't
see her as a wife. She's the weird and scure
virgin who and this is Unreal character who like is
too awkward to like wear a bikini on their group
(33:18):
date and get to cut? Yeah, yeah, I love that.
That is absolutely true. And then who's Rebecca? I don't know,
how can we all like she wins. Heaven. We all
know a man who dated incredibly interesting women and then
they break up and then the next woman they date
is like a pale meeting insipid person who like says, oh, asparagus,
(33:45):
I've never seen that before. Sorry, that was kind of question.
Is that plucked from life? That's are like, very very real.
Maybe she lived in a food desert and was not.
It's true, it's very it's you know what, that's so true.
That's like a fertile crescent of produce. And we're also
(34:10):
lucky that we've seen a fracas, but also like maybe
she could have seen it in a picture. It seems
like you just don't like this woman, and this is
kind of you. I do sound you know what. She
sounds like a wet boy, like you know, sometimes you
(34:30):
don't like somebody, and it's like, oh, look at the
way she choose gum horrible. You know, I get a job. Yeah,
when you love someone, they no matter what they do.
I think we hold producer of the show. Is Rebecca
wins the show for sure? Then I think Rebecca's runner up? No,
(34:54):
I think next season, Oh, no up? And then she yes,
I think she wins. But then they break up, but
she then makes it a sob story about how he
dumped her and left her completely blindsided, and then she's bachelorette.
She wouldn't lose a competition. See I think. I think
(35:17):
Rebecca is one of the like hot ones. But then
she starts in like an a fair relationship with one
of the Vietnam and doesn't even did happen. It's happened
in Vietnam, it happened in Australia too. I agree. I
feel like she wants to play the game to win,
(35:37):
and to play the game to win for her is
not getting the man. It's getting to be the next
bachelor at because that will extend the life of her career. Um. Yeah,
and she wants to have control. And so then when
she picks the guy there, it's like, okay, we can
be famous together as long as you don't sunk up
my ship, like I'll put you on my Instagram. I mean,
(35:57):
it's a pretty good deal she made with Maxim. I mean,
she was straightforward about it. She's like, this is the deal.
It wasn't a deal because she kind of forced it
on you. Yeah, that's true. But he was chill about
it because she had like a sex attack by the scene,
like we net All and Shack. He didn't get rid
(36:22):
of it. Yeah, well that's because he can't go down
to it, like it's too horrifying for one Okay, I
mean the tragedy in this book extends to Mrs Danvers
and the second Missister Winter, obviously, but it also extends
to the limitations placed on Rebecca. Like Rebecca is clearly
(36:43):
somebody who if she was alive today would be running
a fortune. Like she wanted the money in the house.
She did not want to have to commit herself to
this one man who was kind of dealt and Danvers said,
like she they always said, you should have been born
a boy and like it. In that time, It's like
that's the only way she could have lived the independent
(37:05):
life she desired was to be a man. She had
to marry well in order to have the life that
she wanted. And it's again why I don't know how
much better the second this is de Wint's life would
have been if she had a very maxim like maybe
she would have met a nice person in New York
that she made it pretty she met she win. Yes,
(37:27):
she made it clear she was not interested in those
man that she hated younger man who were always asking
her like do you like hot music? Yeah? I understandably
she doesn't want to go out to jazz clubs. Yeah.
She wasn't looking for a nice boy. She wanted a daddy,
a murder daddy, a murder daddy. I think, Jennifer, that's
(37:50):
really poignant with Rebecca is like, yeah, she wanted a
certain life that if she was a man, would have
been allowed to live, which is just like throw amazing
parties and have sex with whoever you want. Yeah, Jay Gatsby, Yeah,
the sex with whoever you want, because he just wants
to have sex. Yeah, and he just wants to have
(38:12):
sex with his shirts. But but if but if Jay
was Rebecca, he would be hot enough to seduce her. Yeah.
Perhaps perhaps Indeed. I have thoroughly enjoyed this, uh, the
intellectual discourse of the Bachelor and which people they would be.
And I want to thank you all for going down
that road with me. And who would Maximate, Oh, he
(38:36):
would have been cut in the first episode. I think
I think they would have made Maxim would be a
bachelor that you're like, this dude's a third string quarterback.
For an NFL. I think that anybody's hands on the
producers would have realized, osh it, he's so boring. We
have to cut around him and make the women really
(38:56):
interesting and seem toxic because he has nothing to offer
up but he's Yeah. I think if Maxim were on
the Bachelorette, he would make it through the first couple
of rounds of cuts, but then he would get into
a huge fist fight with another person with another contestant,
and then he wouldn't get cut. He would leave in
(39:17):
a huff, and then he would do like an expose
on about what really happened. I don't know. I think
he talked about his house incessantly and it might get
him to the episode where they go home to meet
the family, because and the producers really wanted. And I
(39:38):
also think he would still be a widow, which would
be really interesting on the Bachelor, Like that's the whole angle,
and he would be able to use that as like
she's like, oh, he needs a new a new wife,
and I need a murder daddy. So it would work
out for a while. One quick question when he is
murdering her and she's like, I'm pregnant with Jack's baby.
(39:58):
What you're gonna do about it? I'm gonna raise him
a mander, Like, um, is he so scared? Like could
he not get a divorce? Like I know the scandal
was that she would turn everyone against him, but he
literally was like that scandal was so outrageous to him
that he had to uh murder her. The one thing
that the Second Winter have in common. Obsessed with how
(40:22):
other people might. Yeah, Remeba does not seem to like
Rebecca will suck people in cottage any day because she's like,
I will turn people against you when we get divorced.
It's like she had waries, he had her moonlight, the
moonlight picnics. Okay, that's an orgy. I mean, I feel
like he made that choice because again patriarchy, he knew, Like,
(40:46):
I think he knows he could get away with this.
He is like the epitome of that. The town centers
around him, and like they all want to be in
good with Maxim the like magistrate and like all of
those men and so like, I think he did it
because he knew he could. Divorce would be a scandal. Yeah,
a divorce would be I think that if she was Indeed,
(41:09):
because we have to remember, he genuinely believes that she's pregnant.
Her pregnancy and therefore the air is still legitimate even
if he divorces her. Right, I don't pretend to know
how upper white people lived in England. I think I
think that's us made it clear that Jack was her
(41:30):
lover and it was Jack's baby, and maximum Hannah slept
those three years, which might happen like Jack seems just
think if he going to get married. Also, before you
murder her, get a second opinion or a first opinion. Well,
she knew, I mean, that's the whole thing. She knew
exactly what she was doing. She knew exactly what to say,
(41:51):
and that would corner him because she knows that he
deep down he's a bad murder guy, and that like
he cares about the status and Manderley more than he
cares about her life. And and so she taunted him
into it. I wonder was and maybe this is obvious,
(42:14):
but I hadn't really thought about until now. The letter
to Jack was that so that um Jack would discover
Maxim and he would go to prison. Yes, I never
thought about that. That's great that come to the moon
(42:35):
like cottage and maybe you would catch him in the act.
Or it could be that she really genuinely was going
to tell him that she had like cancer because she
did to some extent care about him and he was
her cousin. Yeah, yeah, well maybe maybe it was more
in retrospect. Maybe when Maxim came down there, she was
(42:57):
saying all this because because you're right, like Maxim would
get away with it, but he but Rebecca probably thinks
Jack is coming up here. He I'm going to get
him to kill me, and then he's going to get caught.
He doesn't think he's gonna get caught, but he's gonna
get caught. And stupid, stupid Jack had like a drinking night, right,
Yeah he was alcohol Boys. You know, when if your
(43:22):
alcohol consumption gets in the way of you stopping your
lover cousin's murder, you might want to get to a
meeting or talk to a dop. That's when you know
it's that's your rough bottom when when Rebecca's where Rebecca's
body is on rock bottle. I did love the name
of the boat was I returned perfect spooky detail, Johivian.
(43:47):
I didn't even want to try the French, so thank you.
This is also I don't know if you guys have
read Jane Eyre, but like Jane Eyre is another one
where a husband treats his first wife appallingly and then
we're sort of ok, yeah, like yeah, she has such
fiery blood, Oh my god, and the house also burned down. Ye. Well,
(44:10):
actually there was talk, so I don't know if you
all heard about this, but I did some reading on
Daphne and she was accused of plagiarism by a Brazilian
author named Carolina Nabuco, who wrote a book called a
success aora Um in nineteen thirty four, which was I
(44:30):
believe three or four years before Rebecca was published, and um.
One of the things that she kind of used to
her advantage when she was accused of this plagiarism was well,
Jane Eyre deals with similar things, like it's not a
new idea, but like it was a whole situation where
Carolina Nabuco was like, I'm not going to sign any
(44:52):
of the paperwork that your agents keep sending to me,
saying that the coincidences are just coincidences, like the similarities
are real, and you plagiarized me and Daphne Dumourier actually
wrote to the New York Times because the New York
Times had suggested that it was maybe plagiarized in their
review of Rebecca, and she wrote a letter to the
editor and she's like, can you not excuse you? And
(45:16):
she was like, maybe it was just a coincidence because
we're dealing with similar themes. Did you ever think about that? Like,
do you even think bro Um? And I mean, this
book is exactly like that. It is, Honestly, if it's
plagiarized from anything, it's Jane Eyre, which is that you
fall in love with an older, mysterious man who's very
cold to you find out he was an asshole to
(45:37):
his first wife, who was crazy. It's all her fault.
She deserved it. And then the house burns down and
a success Saura. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong because I
do not speak Portuguese, but that was also adapted. It
was adapted into a telenovela in the seventies worth checking out,
especially if anyone speaks Portuguese or can read Portuguese. That
(46:00):
would be fun. Yeah, I did not know that. I
also wrote The Birds, just getting all of his Yeah, yeah,
when I started reading it. When I started reading it.
I was like, yeah, no, she she wrote the birds.
This is the same plodding. Oh no. I read The
(46:22):
Birds after I finished this because I'm so excited, and uh,
it's so much better than the movie. I liked it
so much. It was It's very short. It's a really
like little quick short story that we'll keep you awake
at night. So it's great. Question does it doesn't vilify
birds as much as the movie? Because I like birds
(46:46):
a lot, and I feel like the birds are unfairly
maligned by the films birds. If you relate two in
the book the humans say are murdering, I would say
it would out her Win Birch for you. If you
say this when you're like, yeah, I must see golf,
then yeah, it's a great moment for you. It's like
(47:07):
a moment from the Birch Rise office. Okay, I do
like bird solidarity. Birds aren't time is now? Yeah? Send
it there. Like, just because there are some murdering birds
in one book doesn't mean all birds are murderers, you know,
Like right, it's okay, think about it like a zombie apocalypse. Yeah,
(47:32):
house birds are not murderers, but in this book they
all become murderers, and you know, I appreciate you assuaging
my fears. I follow the Audubon Society on Twitter like
a you and Jonathan Brandon. At least, don't ever compare
me to Jonathan for you do you go bird watch?
Do you go bird watching? I do not go birdwatching.
(47:53):
But okay, so you know those scooters that were everywhere
bird scooters? Yeah, I went to those are not birds. No.
I went to acting class and my scene partner was like, hey,
how are you? And I was like, I'm good. How
was your weekend? And he was like, oh, I went
birding this weekend And I was like really, And I
didn't know that he meant like riding a bird scooter.
I thought he went bird watching. And then he thought
(48:15):
I was a nerd because I was like, tell me
about the birds you saw? You know movie that I
watched on a plane called The Big Year. It's just
about um the year when um. I guess people in
the Audubon Society all try to see how many birds
they watch? Me here, you like birds and bird watching?
You got? I watched it on a plane. It was
(48:37):
pretty pleasant. Dyna made fun of me once because I
had pet birds growing up. Yeah, I think I don't.
I don't think birds belong in homes, pet belongs, but
birds can fly. Okay, No, my my ex girlfriend had
a bird, and I then it was weird it about it,
(49:00):
So I think you mean, I mean they scare but
we did. We didn't have a bird that was that
we had to give away to a bird sanctuary because
honey Pie, who had named her, turned out to be
a male bird who was that we didn't know for
years was a male bird and was squawking all the
time because he was horny and needed to mate um.
(49:23):
And so honey Pie went to a bird he got made,
which is better because we also had cats, and those
cats terrorized poor Honeypie. What if we all wrote an
adaptation of the birds, but it's the scooters. It's a
modern adaptation, and the scooters are coming to kill you.
Why are we giving away this gold on air sand
(49:46):
might cut that out? Imagine how terrifying, Imagine how terrifying
it would be to see a barrage of bird scooters
coming at you with no riders, just like I'm already
seeing the handlebars like treated like eyes. So they may
come across the court like they peer around a corner
and just like come at you, I'm gonna write. I'll
write it, I'll write it all write Okay, great, great, great.
(50:12):
That's our show for the week. Thank you so much
for listening. I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me
on Twitter at Danis Schwartz with three z s. You
can follow Jennifer Wright at jen Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua
is at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa ft
W and Tian Tran is smart enough to have gotten
off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Hank Tina.
(50:33):
Our executive producer is Christopher Hessiotis and we're produced and
edited by Mike John's special thanks to David Wasserman. Next
week it'll be screen time. We'll take a look at
Alfred Hitchcock's film adaptation of Rebecca, and if you want
to plan ahead, we'll be watching the rest of Lovecraft
Country on HBO and then moving on to V for Vendetta.
(50:56):
Popcorn Book Club is a production of I Heart Radio
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