June 21, 2022 • 31 mins
Gam and Rodney speak with board-certified general and colorectal surgeon, Dr. Cedrek McFadden, about the importance of men’s health, getting regular check ups, and how Chadwick Boseman succumbed to colon cancer.
Guest Information:
@cedrekmd Dr. Cedrek McFadden's Instagram
@cedrekmd Dr. Cedrek McFadden's Facebook
@cedrekmd Dr. Cedrek McFadden's Twitter
@iamrodneynorris Rodney's Instagram
Host Information:
@gammynorris Gammy's Instagram
@gammynorris_ Gammy's Twitter
@gammynorris Gammy's Facebook
@gammynorris Gammy’s TikTok
#PositivelyGam
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What's up everybody. I'm Gammy and I'm her husband, Rodney
and this is Positively GAM. How are you, babe, I'm good.
Welcome back to Positively GAM. I really wanted to have
you on this podcast because we're talking about men's health. Yes,
and that is a great topic, especially where we are
(00:29):
in life right now. Yeah, definitely in the aging process,
having some of the issues that we're going to be
discussing with Dr McFadden. Yeah. How do you feel about
your relationships with doctors? You feel you feel comfortable going?
I think you're you're pretty comfortable going with the doctor. Yeah,
I'm I'm one of those guys that will go at
(00:51):
the drop of a hat. I'm not you know, I'm
not afraid to show up at the doctor's office like
a lot of men are. Yeah. What about your friends.
You feel like your friends are at this age? Yes,
they they get it. Um, they're starting to you know,
they'll go for pretty much anything now. But it's our
(01:11):
younger days not so much. Yeah, that's what I was
gonna say. I think I think this age as we
get older, um, I think all of our friends probably
are a little bit more um, cognizant about going to
the doctor. But you know, in the younger back in
the younger days, I don't think so. Yeah. Well, I
(01:33):
also think there are things that are take you know,
forcing them to go. Now, they're having issues that are
driving them to the doctors. Yes, more so than preventive maintenance.
They're going because of their having issues. Yeah, their bodies
were We're falling apart, We're falling apart. Doctor Cedric McFadden
(01:55):
is a surgeon, speaker, writer, and mentor. He's a board
certified general and colorrectal surgeon and teaches as a Clinical
Assistant Professor of Surgery. He treats a wide range of
disorders and is a huge advocate for black men's health.
Welcome Dr McFadden to positively gam. Thank you so much
(02:15):
for having me, and thanks for lending some time to
a very important topic. Absolutely, and I definitely wanted to
have my husband, Rodney in this conversation because we're going
to focus on men's health. So I want to start
off doctor McFadden with what's your take on why it's
so hard to get men to just go to the doctor. Yeah,
(02:37):
that's a really heavy question with probably many differences. You know,
I think it's our culture, right, we start off by
telling young girls by the age of sixteen they need
to have their first visit with their going to collegist.
It's the expectation that we said early on that you're
going to go to this doctor yearly, and as you
get older, as you had children, you're going to see
that doctor more frequently. We don't do that, for god,
(02:59):
no telling young men at sixteen at what age they
should start going to have a well male check and
the frequency which they should do it. So we don't
really do that culturally. And I think some people are afraid.
I mean, I think forty one out of five men
don't go to the doctor because they're afraid of what
they're going to find out by going. Interestingly enough, Rodney
(03:20):
said the same thing when we were having the conversation
that you know, women start their relationship with healthcare very early.
And I have a nurse, and I never even thought
about that perspective of it. Well, and it's it's not
even just a relationship, it's almost like their best friend.
They sort of bond over the fact that you know,
they're interesting to have a really good relationship. They formed
(03:44):
that bond, and men don't do the same traditionally with
their doctors. And you know, there could be some embarrassment
for men. There could be, like I said before, some fears,
and it could be the fact that perhaps they can't
afford it. Do they have the insurance to get to
the doctor. So many different reasons why, doctor McFadden, How
do we can events more men to go to the doctor? Well,
I think we we we start by, you know, having
(04:04):
a conversation about why is it important? I mean, you know,
we often talk about our cars. We get our all changes,
were tires rotated. We don't wait until the car is
smoking before we take it into the mechanics. We do
some preventive things. Well, the same thing is true for
our bodies. We don't wait until we break down to
get the help that we need. So we have to
(04:25):
acknowledge along the way and break it apart and make
it easy and palatable to do these visits so that
you know you're not doing everything, but you're doing small
things along the way so that you have longevity and
that you have great health throughout your life. How do
you recommend that men even find a good doctor, because
(04:47):
I guess you're just looking for a general practitioner. Or
a family practitioner. Yeah, we often go to doctors that
either our families have traditionally gone to our friends. So
that's a good place to start, you know, asking your friends.
You know, they know your temperament, they know what things
you may be looking for. But just starting with the friends,
(05:08):
who do you go to for a doctor? And if
you're working and you have insurance, that's a great place
to start because often your insurance coverage you're going to
tell you who your options include. But I think aside
from that, there's often a lot of spaces over the
internet now with reviews and bios. We often look for
sometimes people who look like us, and that could mean,
you know, looking at pictures and looking at backgrounds, where'd
(05:30):
you go to college, where'd you grow up? We generally
open up to people who have commonalities whatever they are,
So finding people who we are comfortable with because we're
gonna be opening up to them sometimes about very sensitive
topics from you know, sexually transmitted diseases or rectial dysfunction,
you know, the things that you don't want to talk
to anybody about. You gotta feel comfortable talking with your
doctor about that. Stuffy Rodney, how did you find your doctor.
(05:54):
I looked at bios. You just suggested that I took
that route. I looked at bios and I look for
anality as well. But strangely enough, I chose a woman.
I feel comfortable talking to her. We do regular checks,
she checks everything. I really don't have a problem with it,
but I could see how that could be an issue
for some men. It's pretty common, you know, just because
(06:15):
you are you know, people often think, well, if you're
a person of color, you're black for a black targe.
That may not be the case. You know, your comfort
level and what you're looking for male, female, old or
young may come at different you know, rangers, and so
that's that's the really important thing. Finding somebody who you
often feel comfortable talking to, but will also listen. That's
(06:37):
the key. Are they listening to you and are they
taking your concerns and your thoughts seriously. When I'm thinking
of younger men when it comes to health care, I'm
thinking of Okay, girls usually get introduced to the to
a Ghana collegist that somewhere between twelve and fifteen. So
for young men, I'm wondering if it is typically their
(06:59):
first experience, it's might be related to a sports injury
or something like that. Well, well, I mean I think
the sports physical Yeah, so before you can even start
the team, you know, I remember from my days in
high school that was a pretty quick exam that really
didn't feel very involved. I mean, they check your heart,
they check for her in years, and that's really about it,
(07:20):
it felt. So I do think that can be the start,
and often that's when they find things that need follow up.
But I do think that can initiate it. But it
still has to extend beyond that. So when you think
about going through life stages, are there particular screening, specific
screenings that men need to be looking out for like
(07:43):
twenties and thirties and forties and fifties. What are are
there specific screenings that need to be done, like women
have to have to get mammograms and paps bears, and
what are the things that men need to be doing. Yeah,
I mean that's a great question, and I hope know
all the audience has their pens and papers out because
it can be exhausted to get the entire life. But
(08:05):
let's start really quickly, you know, by twenties. I think
it's important that men, first of all, establish a relationship
with the doctor even before their problems. You want to
find a doctor that you can trust and talk to.
And so the initial things I think in your twenties
is important to do some of your immunization work. That
if you have a family history of certain problems such
as your heart or diabetes or any of those problems,
(08:27):
that's the time to establish that history that you can
then talk with your doctor, because depending on your family history,
you may be doing some screening sooner than later, so
perhaps checking for you know, blood pressure, looking at for
heart disease. And by your thirties, most people are going
to start doing either like an e k G. They're
(08:47):
also checking for their blood pressure and making sure their
cholesterol is within check. So that's just routine blood work
as well. By the time you're in your forties, especially
black men, we're gonna start talking about testing for state cancer.
And now that's just a blood test like a p
s A that's drawn, and depending on the results of that,
there may be other things that you do. Forty five
(09:08):
is the age which now we screen for colorrectal cancer,
and that's for men and women, black and white. However,
if there's a family history of colorectal cancer, You're gonna
begin screening ten years before that family member was affected.
So if mom was forty two when she was diagnosed
as colorrectal cancer, you're not waiting to forty five, You're
(09:30):
gonna pregainst ten years earlier at thirty two looking for that. Now,
did that age change recently? Did it drop? It did? Yeah, yeah,
it did because we were seeing a lot of young people.
I mean, we know Chadwick Boseman is one prominent example,
but there have been that were diagnosed with colorectal cancer
before fifty, which most of us have always thought of
(09:51):
colorrectal cancer as an older person's disease. Unfortunately, we've seen
a decreased incidents in colorectal cancer over the years, but
we've seen increase in those under the age of fifty
being diagnosed with colorectal cancer, so much as one point
five percent per year increases, and people under the age
of fifty, so that aged decreased to forty five and
two thousand and seventeen, the United States Preventive Task Force
(10:15):
echoed it, and they also recommended it last year as well. Yeah,
I remember it first really becoming coming to my attention
years ago when Katie Curicic's husband was diagnosed and succumbed
eventually to co erective cancer, and she started bringing that
whole having your colonoscopy, bringing that to the attention. And
(10:38):
I think she had when she was one of the
first people I think that had hers on camera. I
remember that. Anyway, I'm glad you mentioned that. So that
brings to me, like, what what is the maybe a
good age where men should think about getting a colonosomy.
So I think forty age, unless there's a family history,
you need to do it soon, all right, and that
(11:00):
can be you know, for all of us. So doctor,
we're a debate. We're having a small debate right here.
Become on, let's no, don't you do it? So Rodney's
doctor has just suggested to him. Now Rodney is and
he is suggested that Rodney just needs or she has
(11:24):
suggested that he just needs to do a guyat test
or you know, the testing for blood and the stool.
I don't think that is enough at his age. I
feel like he needs a full colonoscopy. Well, so there
are other ways in which we test for color work. However,
it may not be right for everybody. If you are
(11:45):
high risk, meaning if you have a family history of
colorectal cancer, or if yourself have a personal history of
polyps and or cancer, if you have symptoms of colorectal
cancer which includes bleeding, changes in your bowt habits, anything
like that, those are not the test for you. Okay,
So if you've had pilots before, you need to have
(12:06):
a colonoscopy, and if that guyat test is positive, you're
still going to come to have a colonospy. It's not
a bad test at all. It's pretty straightforward, and most
people say it's one of the best snapps will ever have.
But the other thing you'll remember is if you're gonna
do that guiant test, you're not gonna be doing it
every ten years like you would a colonoscopy. You may
be doing that yearly depending on the results, and then
(12:27):
other testing may be required. So right now I think
I'm doing it yearly. I'm pretty sure, and that's enough.
I don't have a fight. Yeah, I don't have a
family history. I've had a colonosopy and I didn't have
any issues, no pilots or anything like that. So maybe
that's why she's chosen that route. Yeah, I think first
(12:50):
of all, I mean I often have this conversation patients
and I tell them that, you know, some testing is
better than no testing. And there are some patients that
will not do colonosty, And there are other types of screenings.
I mean, there's the commercials that you see now for
the DNA based There's some other sort of blood tested
are coming on the market, So there are some other
options if a patient won't do a colonoscopy. And sometimes
(13:12):
I'll take whatever they will give me as long as
it still fits within the parameters. I want to get
back to this business about men still being resistant to
seeking medical evaluation, even in a preventive sense. And but
(13:36):
I think you you talked about it earlier where it's
a lot of it is could just be lack of
health insurance too. So I wanted to know if there's
any kind of like for women. Women can get mammograms
for free. There there places that will do free screenings.
(14:00):
Are there any options like that for men when it
comes to just routine screenings, if you don't have health insurance,
and if you don't have health insurance, what do you do? Yeah,
that's a tough one, and that's why we see a
lot of people show up with problems that are foregone
and a more advanced because they didn't get the preventive
things done like a colonoscopy. Most hospitals have sponsorship type
(14:23):
programs that you can inquire about and that you may
have to do some paperwork and some legwork, but it
can be done through hospital sponsorships. In many cases, I've
had patients tell me that they were just instructed to
go to the e er, which sometimes makes the wait
longer than me. You know, not be the most ideal
for all parties, but sometimes that's the re option that
(14:44):
you have. There are other organizations in full disclosure, like
the Colorectal Cancer Alliance that will help with defraying some
of the cost or offering other screening options for colorectal cancer.
I sit on the board of one of their medical
advisory committees. But I still think there are some resources
that you can look into like that can offer some
(15:05):
reduced calls as well as looking at Most cities have
free medical clinics that will help send referrals out to
the doctors that participate. By myself have done it for
years where you'll see patients through a clinic setting where
they can get reduced medical coverage, if not free. Now,
in my family, that's just not an issue. I just
happened to have a family where the men and the
(15:27):
family go to the doctor all the time, like all
the time, Rodney, what about you and your friends? I
don't think you. I typically go through the doctor a
lot at an early age. I wasn't asthmatic as a kid,
and I was sick a lot. I got introduced to
(15:47):
having relationship with doctors for that reason, and I had
to go to the to the doctor weekly to get
shots throughout elementary, junior high and some of high school.
So those are probably allergy shots. They were, but it
was so the transition was easier for me to just
go to the doctor for regular health and stuff like that.
(16:10):
A lot of my friends, on the other hand, didn't
have that introduction and they struggle with going to the doctor. Yeah,
but it's like people going to the dentist. Some people
don't go to the dentist as a child, and therefore
as an adult they have such a fear of going
to the dentist because it wasn't set So have you
talked to your friends and encouraged them along the way
to hey, get to check up the absolutely. I mean
(16:32):
now at this age they all go. You know, they
all go because they get it. You know, as you
get older, you feel your body just falling apart and
not behaving. Are there any specific diseases that are more
(16:55):
common in black men, I would think like hot blood pressure, diabete. Yeah,
so the top three. You know, we always talk about
heart disease, which includes all the conversations about you know,
congestive heart failure. We also include high blood pressure. But
then there's also cancer is also at the top of
that list as well, and so there goes a lot
(17:17):
of work towards the preventive and the treatment aspects. And
there are others though. You know, diabetes is at the
top of the list as well. That creates synergistic efforts
with heart disease, and that may then lead to other problems.
I when you think about this, if you have diabetes
and it's not managed, we can then lead to kidney problems,
(17:38):
which have not managed well, can lead to needing dialysis,
which have not managed well leads to having to miss
time off from work. It then is very hard to
have a job if you're having to go to dalysis
three days a week for four or five hours. And
so you see how kind of one spark could then
lead itself to get out of control to where you
can never really grapple and now be able to work
(18:02):
and now be able to continue to afford the care
that she needs. You know, that's why I'd like to
focus a lot on the preventive, so we don't ever
get to that place where we have to be on dalysis.
And what do you think some of the reasons are
that these diseases are so prevalent among um black men.
I'm thinking nutrition. Yeah, yeah, that's a part of it. Um.
(18:27):
You know, genetics goes to play. But you know, we've
seen studies that have shown that if you correct for
just getting the good care that say their counterparts good,
that the outcomes can be equally as good. Meaning are
the doctors offering the same treatment, the same aggressive clinical
(18:48):
trials for say cancer, for blackmail, I say, with somebody else.
And so there's a conversation that centers around, you know,
systemic racism. Being able to get time off from work
to go to the doctor. If your frontline you may
not be able to to get that time off and
when you get to the doctor, are they talking to
you a language that you can understand, And there's there
(19:09):
any biases on either front, that then becomes a barrier
to getting the good care that you deserve. And I
often think about people who are on public transportation. You know,
if the bus or whatever doesn't go near your doctor's office,
is that going to be an issue? I mean, so
there's just many layers to that. And it's not just genetics.
(19:30):
It's not just instrition, even though that is a big
part of it. You know, we can do things that
can help, you know, eating well, eating fruit, eating vegetables,
limiting red meat, limiting alcohol, and if you're smoking, with smoking, um,
maintaining a healthy weight. Nearly you know, six of men
are considered either overweight or obese, and that in itself
(19:54):
is a red flag for other problems such as heart
disease and diabetes. So there are things that we have
control all over. There are things we may not have controller.
But let's take care of the things that we can't control.
But even when you're talking about even when you're talking
about food disparity, knowing that you know a lot of
times there aren't good healthy markets. You know, so access
(20:15):
to healthy foods and is definitely an issue. Even thinking
about the pandemic, I would think that has hindered people's
ability to get to the doctor, having access and things
like that. Um, I think it has. You know, for
many of us, people didn't want to go out. No
one wanted to especially think about going to a hospital.
(20:37):
You're thinking, I don't want to go into the pandemic,
and so that kept a lot of people from wanting
to have important screenings like colonoscopies or just getting their
routine follow up, making sure they had their medications available
if they were working, keeping those funds available so they
could pay for those medications, and so that kept a
(20:57):
lot of people from out into the doctor's office. No,
we continued to do televisits and seeing people over the computer,
over the telephone, but yet that was a barrier for
many people in getting the care and could they get
an appointment because of the backlog of people trying to
get into the doctor's office. Yeah. Absolutely. And one one
last thing, doctor um MC that I just wanted to
(21:18):
know that you know, it was such a shot and
you know, to see the demise of Chadwick Boseman at
such an early age. Did you find that more younger
people were starting to come in for testing? Yeah, we did.
I mean, so I actually in the upstate of South Carolina,
(21:40):
and this is right where Chat with Boseman's from, and
so I remember as soon as that happened. I mean,
we're about the same age. And I mean, aside from
my own feelings of wanting to make sure I was
doing the right thing, I saw patients coming in who
looked just like me, about my same age, who actually
came in because of chat with both Osman so much
(22:01):
to the point that one or the two that I
remember specifically came in and we found early staged cancer
that had he not come in because of Chat with
Bozeman's death, we would have never found and he could
have had a very different outcome than what he now
had because he did come in just to be checked
because of them hearing about chat with Boseman. So we
(22:22):
continually hear that where people say, oh, I remember he
had it, I want the same test. I want to
make sure I don't have the same thing. So there's
a power in the influence or the recognition you mentioned,
Katie Curry, you know will did the same thing with
this colonoscophy. That all helps, that all helps. And actually
my daughter and I did the same thing this year.
We actually had a colonos could be done. It was
(22:45):
my daughter's first time, not my first time. Even though
I was late, I was late for my second go round.
I got it. We got it done. We got it done.
And and again that's why I just impressing Rodney someone,
I just I don't know that something about that little test,
that little blood test, it just doesn't seem sufficient to me,
(23:07):
Like how you Yeah, I actually requested a colonosopy from
my doctor and she said, based on what they saw
and the stool sample, she didn't feel as though I
needed it, she said it. Yeah, So that's so that's
a great point. I mean, so here we go. I mean,
this is and and again we don't know each other
(23:29):
outside of this setting, but I'll say that we hear
that often where I'll have a patient that will come
in to tell me said, I would have done a
test had they had they told me to get it.
And I always come back to question, is the same
dialogue happening among all patients? My question to you again,
is it reasonable for him to say no, I'm not
(23:50):
satisfied with that. I would like to have a colonoscopy
and press for absolutely. I mean, it is certainly still
his space to say thank you. I would like to
do another option. I would like to pursue and the colonoscopy.
I mean, you know, it's for all the reasons that
people don't want to have one. As we mentioned earlier,
it's a fairly easy test. I mean, you go in
(24:13):
and get IVY, you go to sleep, you wake up,
it's all over. You do have to prep the day before,
which is not as bad as that you said it before.
It is not your grandmother's colonoscopy. It's a very different day.
The prep is smaller, the experience you get great sleep.
I would at the end of the day, you don't
want to say I wish I would have Most of
us now use what we call Ivy Popo fall, which
(24:36):
a lot of people got for me with it because
of Michael Jackson. And there's a reason. I mean that
medication works well. I mean you go to sleep like here,
you wake up like this without all the side of foods,
and it's one of the best sleeps that you'll ever
best naps that you'll have, so recovery is generally pretty straightforward.
You go home, you can generally eat what you like
(24:56):
that day. The only restriction that day is new driving,
just be as a the sedative that you had. But
colin osby is not a painful procedure. You usually don't
know that you even had it done, other than the
pictures that they give you afterwards to prove that they
did exactly. But and I think that also the information
that you get from it, because Okay, I did have
(25:16):
I didn't have any symptoms, but I did have a polyp,
and they also which which which they wouldn't not have
seen exact blood test. Without the test, they wouldn't have
seen it, So that you don't know whether you have
any polyps or not, Rodney, because you're a symptomatic. But
so it was I wasn't having any symptoms about anything.
And also there's some discoloration on my exam that they
(25:39):
want me to come back in three years instead of
five because of the discoloration that they think they know
what it's from because of a laxative that I use
on a regular basis, and they asked me to stop
taking the laxative. But I take the laxative for a reason.
But anyway, but I'm trying to follow their instructions. But
that's again in that's my reason for wanting him to
(26:03):
get the actual colonoscophe because there are things that are
going on that you can't see, and that little blood
test can't pick up one. And and I'll tell you
what's happening here is one of the main reasons, one
of the main reasons why we get men to the office,
It is because the women in their lives. I mean,
I can't tell you the benefit that women have in
(26:27):
the lives or the health of their men. Thank you,
you know, from well from and Ronnie, I'm sorry, I
just gotta tell you this. Um. Even from early on,
you know, it's often the mom that takes the son
to the day. Even if it's not husband and wife,
it's the niece taking the uncle, or the granddaughter taking
the grandfather. The women in our lives often are the
(26:47):
main reason why we get the care that we ultimately get.
And whether it be that you say, you know what,
I'm tired of hearing you talking about it, I'm gonna
go do it. If it's what gets you to the office,
to get whatever tests that you need to have done.
You know, I think there's still a power to that.
So kudos to you for having this conversation because it's
a very similar one that we have all over. Yeah,
I just wanted to stress the fact that we understand
(27:11):
that there is and has been, and there is a
reason why there is a still this underlying mistrust in
the medical community within our culture. We understand that. But
you know, just understand that your health is important and
(27:32):
sometimes one doctor that you go to it may not
be a good fit. And be free to be an
advocate for yourself, do your own research. If your relationship
with one doctor is not working, then do your due
diligence and try someone else. And never be afraid to
(27:52):
ask for a second opinion. I often will offer my
patients a second opinion and say, listen, why don't you
get another opinion from someone else? Because I need a
patient to have full confidence and not only the care
that they're given, but I need them to rest in
understanding that they're getting everything they need. And sometimes that
is a second opinion, and that's true, right, And don't feel,
(28:14):
you know, with the sense that you are going to
hurt the doctor's feelings or look bad by all means.
If you don't feel like you're getting what you need,
ask for a different opinion, ask for a different doctor.
That's okay, I encourage it. So doctor makes that. And
(28:37):
what are three takeaways that our listeners can take away
from this conversation. Well, I think number one could be
prevention is the key for the diseases that we've talked
about today. It's much easier to take care of a
problem before it's a problem than when it's full blown,
(28:57):
so that's key. Number two is your recognition and attention
to size or symptoms, so that you're not ignoring something
and again allowing things to get much worse. And I
think number three is become a self advocate. Become the
person that says, this is what I need for my
(29:18):
health care. If you have problems being that self advocate,
find somebody who can help you. So either bring somebody
else with you to the doctor's supportment. Often men come
in with a list of questions that their wives are said,
and make sure you ask these questions. You know, that's okay,
because it all is a part of giving you the
support and the care that you need. To make sure
(29:40):
we're taking the best care of you, which is most important.
Thank you so much, Doctor make Fad for joining money
and I then we appreciate it. Thank you for inviting
me and Ronney. Let me know about what happens with
this colorous because I feel like you're gonna right. I
feel like you're gonna get that. I'm scheduling one this
week about later on today. Where can people find you
(30:04):
on social media to learn more about you and get
additional health information, Dr McFadden absolutely so. You can follow
me on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook at c E
D R e K m D. That's Cedric m D
on my website Cedric md dot com. Thank you so much,
Thank you. We'll be following up with you all right,
(30:27):
by bye. It's a pleasure and that's our show for
this week of Positively gam. Thank you for joining me, Rodney,
Oh my pleasure. Yeah. You can follow me online at
Gammy Norris and you can follow me at I Am
Rodney Norris. Also help us out by leaving a five
(30:48):
star review on Apple Podcasts and by hitting the follow
button on I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. Positively Gam
is produced by Red Table Talk podcast S and I
Heart Radio. Executive producers are Adrian Banfield, Naris Valin, Jethro
and Jada Pinkett Smith. Our audio engineer is Calvin Bailiff,
(31:11):
and our associate producer is Irene Bischoffberger. Our theme song
is produced by d Beats
What's up everybody. I'm Gammy and I'm her husband, Rodney
and this is Positively GAM. How are you, babe, I'm good.
Welcome back to Positively GAM. I really wanted to have
you on this podcast because we're talking about men's health. Yes,
and that is a great topic, especially where we are
(00:29):
in life right now. Yeah, definitely in the aging process,
having some of the issues that we're going to be
discussing with Dr McFadden. Yeah. How do you feel about
your relationships with doctors? You feel you feel comfortable going?
I think you're you're pretty comfortable going with the doctor. Yeah,
I'm I'm one of those guys that will go at
(00:51):
the drop of a hat. I'm not you know, I'm
not afraid to show up at the doctor's office like
a lot of men are. Yeah. What about your friends.
You feel like your friends are at this age? Yes,
they they get it. Um, they're starting to you know,
they'll go for pretty much anything now. But it's our
(01:11):
younger days not so much. Yeah, that's what I was
gonna say. I think I think this age as we
get older, um, I think all of our friends probably
are a little bit more um, cognizant about going to
the doctor. But you know, in the younger back in
the younger days, I don't think so. Yeah. Well, I
(01:33):
also think there are things that are take you know,
forcing them to go. Now, they're having issues that are
driving them to the doctors. Yes, more so than preventive maintenance.
They're going because of their having issues. Yeah, their bodies
were We're falling apart, We're falling apart. Doctor Cedric McFadden
(01:55):
is a surgeon, speaker, writer, and mentor. He's a board
certified general and colorrectal surgeon and teaches as a Clinical
Assistant Professor of Surgery. He treats a wide range of
disorders and is a huge advocate for black men's health.
Welcome Dr McFadden to positively gam. Thank you so much
(02:15):
for having me, and thanks for lending some time to
a very important topic. Absolutely, and I definitely wanted to
have my husband, Rodney in this conversation because we're going
to focus on men's health. So I want to start
off doctor McFadden with what's your take on why it's
so hard to get men to just go to the doctor. Yeah,
(02:37):
that's a really heavy question with probably many differences. You know,
I think it's our culture, right, we start off by
telling young girls by the age of sixteen they need
to have their first visit with their going to collegist.
It's the expectation that we said early on that you're
going to go to this doctor yearly, and as you
get older, as you had children, you're going to see
that doctor more frequently. We don't do that, for god,
(02:59):
no telling young men at sixteen at what age they
should start going to have a well male check and
the frequency which they should do it. So we don't
really do that culturally. And I think some people are afraid.
I mean, I think forty one out of five men
don't go to the doctor because they're afraid of what
they're going to find out by going. Interestingly enough, Rodney
(03:20):
said the same thing when we were having the conversation
that you know, women start their relationship with healthcare very early.
And I have a nurse, and I never even thought
about that perspective of it. Well, and it's it's not
even just a relationship, it's almost like their best friend.
They sort of bond over the fact that you know,
they're interesting to have a really good relationship. They formed
(03:44):
that bond, and men don't do the same traditionally with
their doctors. And you know, there could be some embarrassment
for men. There could be, like I said before, some fears,
and it could be the fact that perhaps they can't
afford it. Do they have the insurance to get to
the doctor. So many different reasons why, doctor McFadden, How
do we can events more men to go to the doctor? Well,
I think we we we start by, you know, having
(04:04):
a conversation about why is it important? I mean, you know,
we often talk about our cars. We get our all changes,
were tires rotated. We don't wait until the car is
smoking before we take it into the mechanics. We do
some preventive things. Well, the same thing is true for
our bodies. We don't wait until we break down to
get the help that we need. So we have to
(04:25):
acknowledge along the way and break it apart and make
it easy and palatable to do these visits so that
you know you're not doing everything, but you're doing small
things along the way so that you have longevity and
that you have great health throughout your life. How do
you recommend that men even find a good doctor, because
(04:47):
I guess you're just looking for a general practitioner. Or
a family practitioner. Yeah, we often go to doctors that
either our families have traditionally gone to our friends. So
that's a good place to start, you know, asking your friends.
You know, they know your temperament, they know what things
you may be looking for. But just starting with the friends,
(05:08):
who do you go to for a doctor? And if
you're working and you have insurance, that's a great place
to start because often your insurance coverage you're going to
tell you who your options include. But I think aside
from that, there's often a lot of spaces over the
internet now with reviews and bios. We often look for
sometimes people who look like us, and that could mean,
you know, looking at pictures and looking at backgrounds, where'd
(05:30):
you go to college, where'd you grow up? We generally
open up to people who have commonalities whatever they are,
So finding people who we are comfortable with because we're
gonna be opening up to them sometimes about very sensitive
topics from you know, sexually transmitted diseases or rectial dysfunction,
you know, the things that you don't want to talk
to anybody about. You gotta feel comfortable talking with your
doctor about that. Stuffy Rodney, how did you find your doctor.
(05:54):
I looked at bios. You just suggested that I took
that route. I looked at bios and I look for
anality as well. But strangely enough, I chose a woman.
I feel comfortable talking to her. We do regular checks,
she checks everything. I really don't have a problem with it,
but I could see how that could be an issue
for some men. It's pretty common, you know, just because
(06:15):
you are you know, people often think, well, if you're
a person of color, you're black for a black targe.
That may not be the case. You know, your comfort
level and what you're looking for male, female, old or
young may come at different you know, rangers, and so
that's that's the really important thing. Finding somebody who you
often feel comfortable talking to, but will also listen. That's
(06:37):
the key. Are they listening to you and are they
taking your concerns and your thoughts seriously. When I'm thinking
of younger men when it comes to health care, I'm
thinking of Okay, girls usually get introduced to the to
a Ghana collegist that somewhere between twelve and fifteen. So
for young men, I'm wondering if it is typically their
(06:59):
first experience, it's might be related to a sports injury
or something like that. Well, well, I mean I think
the sports physical Yeah, so before you can even start
the team, you know, I remember from my days in
high school that was a pretty quick exam that really
didn't feel very involved. I mean, they check your heart,
they check for her in years, and that's really about it,
(07:20):
it felt. So I do think that can be the start,
and often that's when they find things that need follow up.
But I do think that can initiate it. But it
still has to extend beyond that. So when you think
about going through life stages, are there particular screening, specific
screenings that men need to be looking out for like
(07:43):
twenties and thirties and forties and fifties. What are are
there specific screenings that need to be done, like women
have to have to get mammograms and paps bears, and
what are the things that men need to be doing. Yeah,
I mean that's a great question, and I hope know
all the audience has their pens and papers out because
it can be exhausted to get the entire life. But
(08:05):
let's start really quickly, you know, by twenties. I think
it's important that men, first of all, establish a relationship
with the doctor even before their problems. You want to
find a doctor that you can trust and talk to.
And so the initial things I think in your twenties
is important to do some of your immunization work. That
if you have a family history of certain problems such
as your heart or diabetes or any of those problems,
(08:27):
that's the time to establish that history that you can
then talk with your doctor, because depending on your family history,
you may be doing some screening sooner than later, so
perhaps checking for you know, blood pressure, looking at for
heart disease. And by your thirties, most people are going
to start doing either like an e k G. They're
(08:47):
also checking for their blood pressure and making sure their
cholesterol is within check. So that's just routine blood work
as well. By the time you're in your forties, especially
black men, we're gonna start talking about testing for state cancer.
And now that's just a blood test like a p
s A that's drawn, and depending on the results of that,
there may be other things that you do. Forty five
(09:08):
is the age which now we screen for colorrectal cancer,
and that's for men and women, black and white. However,
if there's a family history of colorectal cancer, You're gonna
begin screening ten years before that family member was affected.
So if mom was forty two when she was diagnosed
as colorrectal cancer, you're not waiting to forty five, You're
(09:30):
gonna pregainst ten years earlier at thirty two looking for that. Now,
did that age change recently? Did it drop? It did? Yeah, yeah,
it did because we were seeing a lot of young people.
I mean, we know Chadwick Boseman is one prominent example,
but there have been that were diagnosed with colorectal cancer
before fifty, which most of us have always thought of
(09:51):
colorrectal cancer as an older person's disease. Unfortunately, we've seen
a decreased incidents in colorectal cancer over the years, but
we've seen increase in those under the age of fifty
being diagnosed with colorectal cancer, so much as one point
five percent per year increases, and people under the age
of fifty, so that aged decreased to forty five and
two thousand and seventeen, the United States Preventive Task Force
(10:15):
echoed it, and they also recommended it last year as well. Yeah,
I remember it first really becoming coming to my attention
years ago when Katie Curicic's husband was diagnosed and succumbed
eventually to co erective cancer, and she started bringing that
whole having your colonoscopy, bringing that to the attention. And
(10:38):
I think she had when she was one of the
first people I think that had hers on camera. I
remember that. Anyway, I'm glad you mentioned that. So that
brings to me, like, what what is the maybe a
good age where men should think about getting a colonosomy.
So I think forty age, unless there's a family history,
you need to do it soon, all right, and that
(11:00):
can be you know, for all of us. So doctor,
we're a debate. We're having a small debate right here.
Become on, let's no, don't you do it? So Rodney's
doctor has just suggested to him. Now Rodney is and
he is suggested that Rodney just needs or she has
(11:24):
suggested that he just needs to do a guyat test
or you know, the testing for blood and the stool.
I don't think that is enough at his age. I
feel like he needs a full colonoscopy. Well, so there
are other ways in which we test for color work. However,
it may not be right for everybody. If you are
(11:45):
high risk, meaning if you have a family history of
colorectal cancer, or if yourself have a personal history of
polyps and or cancer, if you have symptoms of colorectal
cancer which includes bleeding, changes in your bowt habits, anything
like that, those are not the test for you. Okay,
So if you've had pilots before, you need to have
(12:06):
a colonoscopy, and if that guyat test is positive, you're
still going to come to have a colonospy. It's not
a bad test at all. It's pretty straightforward, and most
people say it's one of the best snapps will ever have.
But the other thing you'll remember is if you're gonna
do that guiant test, you're not gonna be doing it
every ten years like you would a colonoscopy. You may
be doing that yearly depending on the results, and then
(12:27):
other testing may be required. So right now I think
I'm doing it yearly. I'm pretty sure, and that's enough.
I don't have a fight. Yeah, I don't have a
family history. I've had a colonosopy and I didn't have
any issues, no pilots or anything like that. So maybe
that's why she's chosen that route. Yeah, I think first
(12:50):
of all, I mean I often have this conversation patients
and I tell them that, you know, some testing is
better than no testing. And there are some patients that
will not do colonosty, And there are other types of screenings.
I mean, there's the commercials that you see now for
the DNA based There's some other sort of blood tested
are coming on the market, So there are some other
options if a patient won't do a colonoscopy. And sometimes
(13:12):
I'll take whatever they will give me as long as
it still fits within the parameters. I want to get
back to this business about men still being resistant to
seeking medical evaluation, even in a preventive sense. And but
(13:36):
I think you you talked about it earlier where it's
a lot of it is could just be lack of
health insurance too. So I wanted to know if there's
any kind of like for women. Women can get mammograms
for free. There there places that will do free screenings.
(14:00):
Are there any options like that for men when it
comes to just routine screenings, if you don't have health insurance,
and if you don't have health insurance, what do you do? Yeah,
that's a tough one, and that's why we see a
lot of people show up with problems that are foregone
and a more advanced because they didn't get the preventive
things done like a colonoscopy. Most hospitals have sponsorship type
(14:23):
programs that you can inquire about and that you may
have to do some paperwork and some legwork, but it
can be done through hospital sponsorships. In many cases, I've
had patients tell me that they were just instructed to
go to the e er, which sometimes makes the wait
longer than me. You know, not be the most ideal
for all parties, but sometimes that's the re option that
(14:44):
you have. There are other organizations in full disclosure, like
the Colorectal Cancer Alliance that will help with defraying some
of the cost or offering other screening options for colorectal cancer.
I sit on the board of one of their medical
advisory committees. But I still think there are some resources
that you can look into like that can offer some
(15:05):
reduced calls as well as looking at Most cities have
free medical clinics that will help send referrals out to
the doctors that participate. By myself have done it for
years where you'll see patients through a clinic setting where
they can get reduced medical coverage, if not free. Now,
in my family, that's just not an issue. I just
happened to have a family where the men and the
(15:27):
family go to the doctor all the time, like all
the time, Rodney, what about you and your friends? I
don't think you. I typically go through the doctor a
lot at an early age. I wasn't asthmatic as a kid,
and I was sick a lot. I got introduced to
(15:47):
having relationship with doctors for that reason, and I had
to go to the to the doctor weekly to get
shots throughout elementary, junior high and some of high school.
So those are probably allergy shots. They were, but it
was so the transition was easier for me to just
go to the doctor for regular health and stuff like that.
(16:10):
A lot of my friends, on the other hand, didn't
have that introduction and they struggle with going to the doctor. Yeah,
but it's like people going to the dentist. Some people
don't go to the dentist as a child, and therefore
as an adult they have such a fear of going
to the dentist because it wasn't set So have you
talked to your friends and encouraged them along the way
to hey, get to check up the absolutely. I mean
(16:32):
now at this age they all go. You know, they
all go because they get it. You know, as you
get older, you feel your body just falling apart and
not behaving. Are there any specific diseases that are more
(16:55):
common in black men, I would think like hot blood pressure, diabete. Yeah,
so the top three. You know, we always talk about
heart disease, which includes all the conversations about you know,
congestive heart failure. We also include high blood pressure. But
then there's also cancer is also at the top of
that list as well, and so there goes a lot
(17:17):
of work towards the preventive and the treatment aspects. And
there are others though. You know, diabetes is at the
top of the list as well. That creates synergistic efforts
with heart disease, and that may then lead to other problems.
I when you think about this, if you have diabetes
and it's not managed, we can then lead to kidney problems,
(17:38):
which have not managed well, can lead to needing dialysis,
which have not managed well leads to having to miss
time off from work. It then is very hard to
have a job if you're having to go to dalysis
three days a week for four or five hours. And
so you see how kind of one spark could then
lead itself to get out of control to where you
can never really grapple and now be able to work
(18:02):
and now be able to continue to afford the care
that she needs. You know, that's why I'd like to
focus a lot on the preventive, so we don't ever
get to that place where we have to be on dalysis.
And what do you think some of the reasons are
that these diseases are so prevalent among um black men.
I'm thinking nutrition. Yeah, yeah, that's a part of it. Um.
(18:27):
You know, genetics goes to play. But you know, we've
seen studies that have shown that if you correct for
just getting the good care that say their counterparts good,
that the outcomes can be equally as good. Meaning are
the doctors offering the same treatment, the same aggressive clinical
(18:48):
trials for say cancer, for blackmail, I say, with somebody else.
And so there's a conversation that centers around, you know,
systemic racism. Being able to get time off from work
to go to the doctor. If your frontline you may
not be able to to get that time off and
when you get to the doctor, are they talking to
you a language that you can understand, And there's there
(19:09):
any biases on either front, that then becomes a barrier
to getting the good care that you deserve. And I
often think about people who are on public transportation. You know,
if the bus or whatever doesn't go near your doctor's office,
is that going to be an issue? I mean, so
there's just many layers to that. And it's not just genetics.
(19:30):
It's not just instrition, even though that is a big
part of it. You know, we can do things that
can help, you know, eating well, eating fruit, eating vegetables,
limiting red meat, limiting alcohol, and if you're smoking, with smoking, um,
maintaining a healthy weight. Nearly you know, six of men
are considered either overweight or obese, and that in itself
(19:54):
is a red flag for other problems such as heart
disease and diabetes. So there are things that we have
control all over. There are things we may not have controller.
But let's take care of the things that we can't control.
But even when you're talking about even when you're talking
about food disparity, knowing that you know a lot of
times there aren't good healthy markets. You know, so access
(20:15):
to healthy foods and is definitely an issue. Even thinking
about the pandemic, I would think that has hindered people's
ability to get to the doctor, having access and things
like that. Um, I think it has. You know, for
many of us, people didn't want to go out. No
one wanted to especially think about going to a hospital.
(20:37):
You're thinking, I don't want to go into the pandemic,
and so that kept a lot of people from wanting
to have important screenings like colonoscopies or just getting their
routine follow up, making sure they had their medications available
if they were working, keeping those funds available so they
could pay for those medications, and so that kept a
(20:57):
lot of people from out into the doctor's office. No,
we continued to do televisits and seeing people over the computer,
over the telephone, but yet that was a barrier for
many people in getting the care and could they get
an appointment because of the backlog of people trying to
get into the doctor's office. Yeah. Absolutely. And one one
last thing, doctor um MC that I just wanted to
(21:18):
know that you know, it was such a shot and
you know, to see the demise of Chadwick Boseman at
such an early age. Did you find that more younger
people were starting to come in for testing? Yeah, we did.
I mean, so I actually in the upstate of South Carolina,
(21:40):
and this is right where Chat with Boseman's from, and
so I remember as soon as that happened. I mean,
we're about the same age. And I mean, aside from
my own feelings of wanting to make sure I was
doing the right thing, I saw patients coming in who
looked just like me, about my same age, who actually
came in because of chat with both Osman so much
(22:01):
to the point that one or the two that I
remember specifically came in and we found early staged cancer
that had he not come in because of Chat with
Bozeman's death, we would have never found and he could
have had a very different outcome than what he now
had because he did come in just to be checked
because of them hearing about chat with Boseman. So we
(22:22):
continually hear that where people say, oh, I remember he
had it, I want the same test. I want to
make sure I don't have the same thing. So there's
a power in the influence or the recognition you mentioned,
Katie Curry, you know will did the same thing with
this colonoscophy. That all helps, that all helps. And actually
my daughter and I did the same thing this year.
We actually had a colonos could be done. It was
(22:45):
my daughter's first time, not my first time. Even though
I was late, I was late for my second go round.
I got it. We got it done. We got it done.
And and again that's why I just impressing Rodney someone,
I just I don't know that something about that little test,
that little blood test, it just doesn't seem sufficient to me,
(23:07):
Like how you Yeah, I actually requested a colonosopy from
my doctor and she said, based on what they saw
and the stool sample, she didn't feel as though I
needed it, she said it. Yeah, So that's so that's
a great point. I mean, so here we go. I mean,
this is and and again we don't know each other
(23:29):
outside of this setting, but I'll say that we hear
that often where I'll have a patient that will come
in to tell me said, I would have done a
test had they had they told me to get it.
And I always come back to question, is the same
dialogue happening among all patients? My question to you again,
is it reasonable for him to say no, I'm not
(23:50):
satisfied with that. I would like to have a colonoscopy
and press for absolutely. I mean, it is certainly still
his space to say thank you. I would like to
do another option. I would like to pursue and the colonoscopy.
I mean, you know, it's for all the reasons that
people don't want to have one. As we mentioned earlier,
it's a fairly easy test. I mean, you go in
(24:13):
and get IVY, you go to sleep, you wake up,
it's all over. You do have to prep the day before,
which is not as bad as that you said it before.
It is not your grandmother's colonoscopy. It's a very different day.
The prep is smaller, the experience you get great sleep.
I would at the end of the day, you don't
want to say I wish I would have Most of
us now use what we call Ivy Popo fall, which
(24:36):
a lot of people got for me with it because
of Michael Jackson. And there's a reason. I mean that
medication works well. I mean you go to sleep like here,
you wake up like this without all the side of foods,
and it's one of the best sleeps that you'll ever
best naps that you'll have, so recovery is generally pretty straightforward.
You go home, you can generally eat what you like
(24:56):
that day. The only restriction that day is new driving,
just be as a the sedative that you had. But
colin osby is not a painful procedure. You usually don't
know that you even had it done, other than the
pictures that they give you afterwards to prove that they
did exactly. But and I think that also the information
that you get from it, because Okay, I did have
(25:16):
I didn't have any symptoms, but I did have a polyp,
and they also which which which they wouldn't not have
seen exact blood test. Without the test, they wouldn't have
seen it, So that you don't know whether you have
any polyps or not, Rodney, because you're a symptomatic. But
so it was I wasn't having any symptoms about anything.
And also there's some discoloration on my exam that they
(25:39):
want me to come back in three years instead of
five because of the discoloration that they think they know
what it's from because of a laxative that I use
on a regular basis, and they asked me to stop
taking the laxative. But I take the laxative for a reason.
But anyway, but I'm trying to follow their instructions. But
that's again in that's my reason for wanting him to
(26:03):
get the actual colonoscophe because there are things that are
going on that you can't see, and that little blood
test can't pick up one. And and I'll tell you
what's happening here is one of the main reasons, one
of the main reasons why we get men to the office,
It is because the women in their lives. I mean,
I can't tell you the benefit that women have in
(26:27):
the lives or the health of their men. Thank you,
you know, from well from and Ronnie, I'm sorry, I
just gotta tell you this. Um. Even from early on,
you know, it's often the mom that takes the son
to the day. Even if it's not husband and wife,
it's the niece taking the uncle, or the granddaughter taking
the grandfather. The women in our lives often are the
(26:47):
main reason why we get the care that we ultimately get.
And whether it be that you say, you know what,
I'm tired of hearing you talking about it, I'm gonna
go do it. If it's what gets you to the office,
to get whatever tests that you need to have done.
You know, I think there's still a power to that.
So kudos to you for having this conversation because it's
a very similar one that we have all over. Yeah,
I just wanted to stress the fact that we understand
(27:11):
that there is and has been, and there is a
reason why there is a still this underlying mistrust in
the medical community within our culture. We understand that. But
you know, just understand that your health is important and
(27:32):
sometimes one doctor that you go to it may not
be a good fit. And be free to be an
advocate for yourself, do your own research. If your relationship
with one doctor is not working, then do your due
diligence and try someone else. And never be afraid to
(27:52):
ask for a second opinion. I often will offer my
patients a second opinion and say, listen, why don't you
get another opinion from someone else? Because I need a
patient to have full confidence and not only the care
that they're given, but I need them to rest in
understanding that they're getting everything they need. And sometimes that
is a second opinion, and that's true, right, And don't feel,
(28:14):
you know, with the sense that you are going to
hurt the doctor's feelings or look bad by all means.
If you don't feel like you're getting what you need,
ask for a different opinion, ask for a different doctor.
That's okay, I encourage it. So doctor makes that. And
(28:37):
what are three takeaways that our listeners can take away
from this conversation. Well, I think number one could be
prevention is the key for the diseases that we've talked
about today. It's much easier to take care of a
problem before it's a problem than when it's full blown,
(28:57):
so that's key. Number two is your recognition and attention
to size or symptoms, so that you're not ignoring something
and again allowing things to get much worse. And I
think number three is become a self advocate. Become the
person that says, this is what I need for my
(29:18):
health care. If you have problems being that self advocate,
find somebody who can help you. So either bring somebody
else with you to the doctor's supportment. Often men come
in with a list of questions that their wives are said,
and make sure you ask these questions. You know, that's okay,
because it all is a part of giving you the
support and the care that you need. To make sure
(29:40):
we're taking the best care of you, which is most important.
Thank you so much, Doctor make Fad for joining money
and I then we appreciate it. Thank you for inviting
me and Ronney. Let me know about what happens with
this colorous because I feel like you're gonna right. I
feel like you're gonna get that. I'm scheduling one this
week about later on today. Where can people find you
(30:04):
on social media to learn more about you and get
additional health information, Dr McFadden absolutely so. You can follow
me on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook at c E
D R e K m D. That's Cedric m D
on my website Cedric md dot com. Thank you so much,
Thank you. We'll be following up with you all right,
(30:27):
by bye. It's a pleasure and that's our show for
this week of Positively gam. Thank you for joining me, Rodney,
Oh my pleasure. Yeah. You can follow me online at
Gammy Norris and you can follow me at I Am
Rodney Norris. Also help us out by leaving a five
(30:48):
star review on Apple Podcasts and by hitting the follow
button on I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. Positively Gam
is produced by Red Table Talk podcast S and I
Heart Radio. Executive producers are Adrian Banfield, Naris Valin, Jethro
and Jada Pinkett Smith. Our audio engineer is Calvin Bailiff,
(31:11):
and our associate producer is Irene Bischoffberger. Our theme song
is produced by d Beats
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