May 17, 2022 • 46 mins
Gam is joined by two incredible women, Salli Richardson-Whitfield (Director and Executive Producer of The Gilded Age) & Sidra Smith (Executive Producer and Co-Founder of ESSENCE Studios), who share their experiences working in the media industry. From directing to producing to being Black women in entertainment, they cover it all!
Guest Information:
@sallirichwhit Salli’s Instagram
@sallirichardson Salli’s Twitter
@sallirw Salli’s Facebook
@sidrasmithofficial Sidra’s Instagram
@sidrasmith Sidra’s Twitter
@TashaAndSidra Sidra’s Facebook
Host Information:
@gammynorris Gammy's Instagram
@gammynorris_ Gammy's Twitter
@gammynorris Gammy's Facebook
@gammynorris Gammy’s TikTok
#PositivelyGam
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POSITIVELY GAM is produced by Red Table Talk Podcasts. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS Fallon Jethroe, Adrienne Banfield Norris, and Jada Pinkett Smith. CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER Sim Hoti. ASSOCIATE PRODUCER Irene Bischofberger. EDITOR AND AUDIO MIXER Calvin Bailiff. THEME SONG by dbeatz. POSITIVELY GAM is in partnership with iHeartRadio.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively gam Now.
Many of you know how much I love movies and TV,
and often you'll see me shouting out different black artists
and creative because I think it's important to uplift and
celebrate the joy these people have brought to our community today.
I have two incredible women joining me on this episode,
(00:31):
both of whom I have a personal connection to um
But I really want what I really wanted to emphasize
in this conversation because when people go to the movies
and when people think about the entertainment business, they really
just think about actors and who they see in front
(00:54):
of the camera. And I get that because that's who
we see. But there's so much going on behind in
the scenes, so many important people and careers, and that's
kind of what I want to focus on. And these
women are really killing it in the game right now.
So my first guest is Sally Richardson Whitfield. She has
(01:16):
over thirty years of experience as an actress, starring in
movies like Low Down, Dirty Shame, where she was Jada's
nemesis Angelo, one of my favorite movies. I must say, uh,
and then you were in. I am legend with will
and willow Um and so many It just goes. The
(01:37):
list just goes on and on for you. Sally Antoine
Fisher um the TV show Eureka. She is also a
director and producer. Currently she's directing an executive producing The
Guilded Age on HBO, which I love. And also you
are directing some episodes of Winning Time. And then I
(01:59):
have my special guest, Cidra Smith. She is an award
winning producer and also serves as executive producer and co
founder of Essence Studios, overseeing the fifty year old brands scripted,
unscripted and feature film projects. And I really didn't know
you were doing all of that. I really didn't now,
(02:22):
and that's how Yeah, you were the producer for the
Angela Davis film and you actually brought Jada in as
a need RECTI producer. Yes, yeah, that was a great
project too. That was a great project. So welcome to
(02:44):
both of you. I thank you so much for taking
the time to join me because I know how busy
you guys are. But I want to start with you, Sidra,
how did you get started in the entertainment industry? Did
you start out as a model, you know I did, actually,
league of course, and then realize, wait, and then realized
(03:05):
I liked eating pasta more than modeling. Okay, literally when
you know, it's funny because when Tasha and I moved
to l A when we were like eighteen years old,
we started off hanging out in comedy clubs and Tasha
was pursuing her career as a comedian and I was
(03:27):
modeling and hanging out in comedy clubs. And then one
day I got a job in France, went there for
three months, worked and then went to Italy and worked
for almost two years, and decided that I just could
not keep up with them skinny girls because I was
trying to eat the pasta and drink the wine. So
(03:50):
let me hold off for a minute, just with the listeners.
Sidra has a twin sister, Tasha Smith, who I'm sure
you guys will all no as an actress from many
many movies. Yeah. Yeah, So I just realized that I
just could not keep up with the skinny girls in Italy.
(04:10):
Came back to l A and then started working in
production from an assistant to a production assistant to a coordinator,
and then started casting and then found my space as
a producer. And uh, and it's been an amazing journey. Okay,
so tell me exactly what producer's role is. What what
(04:34):
does that mean to be a producer? You know, when
someone has an idea, you know, everything starts with an idea,
taking that idea to putting together the right development team,
developing the script, finding the right director, finding the right writer, actor, cinematographer, sets,
(05:00):
getting it shot, packaged and sold and then so and
supporting and supporting the directors because if a director doesn't
have a producer who's fully supporting their vision, then a
lot of times it makes the director's you know, job difficult.
(05:22):
So you know, it's just it's planting, is setting the
stage for everything that needs to happen to bringing an
idea to life. So, Sally, let me ask you, because
you have such a career as an actress in front
of the camera, what made you make this switch? Well, Um, honestly,
(05:49):
it was I was doing Ava dubern as first film.
You know, she had done documentaries at that point. Um,
it was called I Will Follow And during that process
I probably was just talking too much and give my
ideas too much. But I'm like, um, but sometimes during
that process. Ava looked at me and said, Sally, I
(06:13):
think you're a director and you don't know it, and
something about her just breathing that into me. I it's
like my life flashed before me. And I was that
person who sat at the sat there with a DP
DP and asked questions about what's going on and paid attention,
(06:34):
and also the one going well, I don't know that.
Why don't they just do this and this and this,
and then we could do that, you know. And so
I was on Eureka at the time. I called a
friend of mine, Eric Lanaville, who is a director hundreds
of hours of TV, and said, Eric, I think I
want to give this a shot, but of course, you know,
you have to do it the right way. I said,
let me shadow you. Ava gave me some books. I
(06:57):
found some other books, shadowed him on a few projects,
then asked my show and they said yes. And after
that first episode, or like literally within the first few hours,
I went, oh, I understand this. I get this, and
then I did another one. Then my kids were young,
(07:19):
it wasn't the time to you know, it is like
going back to say medical school or law school. All
of a sudden, Um, you have to really immerse yourself
in it, and it takes a lot of time away
from your family. So they were older. Anyway, I just
started then I UM. Then all of a sudden, Queen
Sugar was happening. I had just found an agent. This
(07:41):
is like a few years later, decided UM started shadowing
people again, and my husband was on Queen Sugar. I
went to visit him. I'm trying to make this a
short story, and I run and I see you here
for I UM because I had called aiban. I said, hey,
I hear you doing the show down. He's only blah blah.
I want to direct. She goes, oh my god, already
(08:02):
cast you know, already hired all the directors. I didn't know.
I go, fine, it's not the right thing. Then cut
to visiting the set. First person I see getting out
of the car with Dandre is Ava and she goes,
oh my god, I can't believe you're here. Come talk
to me. Sat down. She goes, I can't do my episodes.
Do you want tom? I said, wow, But you know
(08:25):
I was ready. I had been backs and had my agent.
I was you know, it all has to can't be
just you know, you just flying around has to all
come together. That's a classic case of being in the
right place at the right time and about meets opportunity,
(08:46):
you know, and being ready and then all of that
just and from there. Let me tell you Facebook work
for me. And then I started posting that I was
shooting that, and then other directors I had been working
with who had direct did me and who had worked
on Eureka, said hey, I see your directing again. UM
I need someone for my show. Why don't you come
(09:08):
over that with Shadow Hunters. He goes, there's a lot
of visual effects. You started doing that on Eureka. Some
of this stuff I can just walk you through. I
know you'll get it. Went over there. Someone else saw
I was directing. Hey, how she doing over there? She's
doing great. You should hire her. Um. So it just
kind of I didn't know I was giving up acting
at the time, and then it just started. It was
(09:30):
like an avalanche. Well how do you feel about that?
Do you do? You do you feel like you're missing
something or it sounds like you're you're really fulfilled by
this directing position. I am. I absolutely love what I'm doing,
though there are times because I'm very lucky to be
(09:52):
working with like amazing, amazing caliber actors, um on work
that is really good stuff. Where go I want to
jump in there? Um? And I actually look at Tasha
and Regina and I go, they found a way to
do both for me, and I just felt like I
had to kind of immerse myself in it. Um. But
(10:15):
I don't think you know they're gonna be something for me? Uh,
sidros with me in something and listen, Yes, the girl,
you already know you already well, sid let me ask you.
(10:40):
Let me jump back to you and ask you this question.
How do you decide what projects you're gonna take on?
You know you have to be passionate, Gammy, you know
why this takes too much work? Like the days of
just doing stuff unnecessarily are just over. Like if you're
not passionate about a project, more than likely you won't
(11:03):
see it through. So I really look at something and say,
let me tell you. The first thing I say to
myself is what I do this for free? Because it
takes a long time sometimes to get things over the
finish line. And if you feel like, whether I'm getting
paid or not, I would do this project. It's something
(11:27):
that you know, if it's something that really speaks to
your soul, speaks to your legacy, things, speaks to things
that you really believe in in the stories you want
to leave behind for people to say, Wow, sich Smith
did that or was a part of that? You know,
I kind of start there. You know, did you have
(11:47):
ever have any desire to be in front of the
camera as an actress? Oh my god, let me tell
you no, Although when you're a twin you know that no, no, no,
And let me tell you I knew. I'll never forget.
Tasha and I were like nineteen no, not like eighteen
(12:09):
like when we first because it was before Italy. We
were living in l A. Someone cast us in a
McDonald's commercial and I was like, this was taken too long.
I'm like, wait a minute. It was going into like overtime.
And I was on my way to see Luther andros
in Vegas and I was like, the car was outside.
(12:32):
I said, guess what I'm out, Les said, and Tasha
was his. She was like, you were not. I was like,
I'm out, I'm not doing this. I'll never forget. The
casting director was this guy named Peter Wise. Y'all know,
Peter was like Peter was like, you know, he never
(12:53):
cast me in another And I was like, Na, this
isn't for me. What about you, Sally, How do you
decide what projects? Because you there's so much diversity with
what you've done, like the Guilded Age. I know, well,
in the beginning, I took everything, and I mean and
(13:15):
when I say everything, not everything. I wanted to conquer,
like every different kind of genre that came to me. Um, okay,
so it's sci fi, it's an action show. Oh, this
is pure drama. This is half hour comedy. This is
our comedy. Um. Because I didn't want anyone to ever
when I'm now that I've moved up the ranks, um
(13:37):
as I'm pretty bigger projects. I didn't want you to
ever be able to say, yeah, but does she know
how to do this? Has she done this? Yes? There's
nothing you can throw at me now that I haven't
in some way directed so. But now, of course I'm
very particular about what I'm doing. Um. I am uh
(13:58):
developing my own show and in like in like um
Sidrius saying I have to live with it. If I'm
going to be at the Gilded Age, that's a thank you.
It's a year or two of my life, and and
away from your family and away from I mean it
was during COVID. It was nine months in New York.
I barely got to see them because I couldn't go
(14:20):
back and forth. So it was, you know, I have
to really love it and and want to see my
name on it and want to be proud of it,
the same as my acting. I have to live with
this forever, and I want and I only want to
do quality work. I just, um get very picky about
what I think is good. I don't think much is good. Yeah,
(14:46):
a lot of things giggle or like that was good.
I'm like, but was it you got a different scale? Yes? Well,
talking about judging, what were you both seeing model for
you as black women working in the entertainment business, Sally,
(15:09):
was was there a particular person that you were looking to?
Who were your role models? I have to tell you,
I don't know really if there was for me. You know,
I had to think about this question a lot because
people have always asked this, and then I started making
up people because I'm like, I'm supposed to have an
answer because you think you're supposed to and and I
(15:31):
and I didn't. I just um, this is what I
wanted to do. I went to l A. Obviously, as
I was watching you know, a Different World on TV
right around the time I was moving to California, I was,
you know, watching the Cosovy Show. So there were you know,
there was you know, um, the Jefferson's growing up. You know,
there were things for me to to see and focus on,
(15:54):
but not necessarily where I completely saw myself. And I
have no idea why my parents were both educators. I
have no idea why I thought this was something I
should be doing, but it was the only thing I
was great at and I just went for it. So
um so no, I just I didn't and I'm hoping
to be that person now for other people. Yes, I
(16:18):
feel you, Sally. You know what's interesting about that question.
I feel like I was like I feel like my crew.
You know when you think about it, Sally, We've been
like our crew over the last thirty years and just
all the fun we had, you know, from twenty one,
(16:40):
just I was so inspired by our crew. Just gave
me inspiration, I think I think about I think you're
right because until I go to l A and found
this small little community, it's I mean, we all came
up together. It's Jada um like we used to have
(17:06):
so much fun playing a lot of babies. Uh yeah,
playing a lot of space. Um. But he did all
come up together. We all came up together. And it's
amazing that that our little group that everyone has done something.
Everyone has grown and changed and different had taken different
(17:30):
lanes maybe, but everyone has done probably different more than
they thought they were going to do. I'm telling you
I was thinking the same thing, and when I saw
Sally was a part of this, I was thinking to myself,
does Sally have any idea that she would be this kick? Asked?
Can I say? Asked director? Because because that was that's
(17:52):
my next question? What what are some of the challenges
that both of you have come up again? As H
B I C S And then change that B B
C Right, I'm gonna like to send you you go first,
You go first, and I'll jump in you. You know what,
(18:14):
I would say, some of the early challenges were in
terms of just as a producer, financing. You know, you're
always looking for that financing in order to get that
project done right, and that I would be exhausting. Yeah,
but you know what I realized what I'm happy I
realized is that it's okay for people to say no,
(18:38):
right because everyone's not gonna like your project. And the
idea is is to find that person who does, because
you want that person to want to do it, to
believe in and you want that whether financing or studio,
you know, you want them to believe in the project
because that's the only way it's gonna happen in a
(19:00):
beautiful way. So whenever I hit a know or it
took a little bit longer, there was always a reason
it made the project better, stronger. It's all about timing,
you know what I mean. It's all about timing. But
early on, I would say financing was the biggest struggle.
(19:21):
Like I look at these young people these days. It's
like the opportunity there is now with all these streamers
and studios, and it's just like wow, it's amazing. I well,
I look at the duction. I know that you have
had to navigate this mostly white, male dominant world the
(19:43):
same way I do, which is you know, um, you
have to you have to pull on all of your
communication skills and righting bob be through this and get
what you want without being too angry, without but being firm,
being the boss, But how do I how do you
love me when we leave here? Even though I have
(20:05):
to put my foot down sometime. So it's been that
is the roller coaster ride and the that I have
to deal with. And then you know, in the beginning,
if they know you're a little green the question and
you're a black woman on the set, which most of
them have never worked with, uh, you get more questions.
(20:27):
And I, luckily early on the DP of my first
DP on Eureka was just like, listen, most of the time,
they're gonna be messing with you, telling you they can't
do something that you want them to do. Just tell them,
just act like you know more than you know, and
they will find and they'll do it. You know, Like listen,
(20:49):
I can't listen. I can't because sometimes I don't know
how you can do that. I just know it can
be done. And I've also learned at this point in
my life, if I can dream it, you can do it.
I don't know how, I don't know what figure it out.
I don't know what tool you're gonna do to do it,
but we're doing it. So and as long as we
have the time to do it. I know how to
you know, I am a producer too. I know, Okay,
(21:10):
we got these few hours, but I'm pretty sure we
can figure this out. But most of mine, I would say,
it's been having to navigate this world of men be
in charge and but still have a good time. I
want to have a good time. I love what I do.
I'm a pretty nice person unless you really be messing
(21:30):
with me. I'm really cool. So let's have from Chicago. Yes,
I'm liking that. There's been a few people who have
found out like, oh, who who is this? I'm like, well,
I kept giving you the look and you kept going
now you. I mean, there's definitely been times on set
where I'm like, okay, you feel that comfortable to disrespect
(21:52):
me here? Now it's on. You're about to get it
in front of everybody too. I bet you. Nobody else doesn't.
I tell you okay, and I know I sound amazing,
but but how do you know? But that always comes late?
Like by then, everyone knows me, they know my temperament,
(22:13):
and they know whoever that person was must have really
pushed her, because that is not who I am. I
want a team, and I want us all to have
a great time and create something amazing. Well, let me
ask you, what what was it that drew you, um
(22:34):
sally to the guilded age? You talked about having conquered
some of the other genres, So was it just doing
a period piece? I think it was the challenge. I mean,
I didn't love these kinds of films. I think that
a lot of people do a lot of people with
color do they think we don't? But I love it
like a dangerous love it. And then it's Julian Fellows
(22:59):
and then as HBO, So what am I gonna say
no to that? And it's the challenge of such a
huge project and and having so now being put in
the position of now becoming the executive producer of that.
I had a lot to say, I had a lot
of I was walking the footsteps of a lot of
(23:20):
the stuff that Sidra does. You know, it's a little
different in TV, but UM learned a lot and um,
but it was my best experience in my life. Awesome. UM, So,
compared to the beginning of your careers, both of you,
now that you're in a higher leadership positions on set,
(23:43):
how has that shifted your perceptive your perspective around inclusivity.
Let's start with you, Sidra Y. It's so interesting because
you know, the one beautiful thing about out, you know,
leading a leading the film and TV vertical within a
(24:07):
brand who is here to serve black women deeply and
people of color deeply. It is like a blessing, you know,
because you get to hire black people who don't always
have the opportunity, you know. I mean, it's like and
(24:27):
it's funny. And this started off early for me. You know.
The first film that I did was in N seven,
and I made sure that my entire crew were women.
They weren't all black women at the time, but they
were they were women, you know what I mean. And
but being in this position, you know, look, there are
(24:49):
times where you might have to hire a person because
they're good at what they do. But when I start,
you know, putting a team together, I'm really looking for
black women, queer women, trans women, you know what I mean,
Black men too, you know, to to to give these
opportunities to because we just don't have them all the time.
(25:12):
What about you, Sally, did you find it difficult finding
um diversity in the crew for the guilded Age? Well,
most of the shows that that is you know, we've
been so focused, um as an entertainment business on black
people in front of the camera. Behind the camera is
really where there's a lack of opportunity. And so I'm
(25:34):
kind of working. I'm working within the system that's already there.
So what I what I'm trying to do when I'm
there is open people's eyes to looking around, going, um,
this makes no sense. How do we get more people
in here? And And because I can do that, now,
I can say, hey, we need to hire here, here,
(25:55):
and here. Um. And I've been very lucky in particularly
learn on on the Gilded Age because after the first season,
I was able to go, Okay, guys, you have me,
you have the other writer who's working with Julian and you.
We have this black historian. I said, And and when
we've done the Black Family, now we got to do
(26:17):
better in the office here. Now we have to do
better with different departments throughout the set, in hair and makeup,
we got to have some black people in here. And
what's been so wonderful is that in in besides HBO,
but with you know, because then you have your onset producers.
They were like just so open to everything. And then
(26:40):
when I came into production for this new season, I
go in the office, I see two three little black
people were you walk around and I'm like, all right,
Like I felt her, I didn't have to keep bringing
it up. We had a conversation and it was done
and they understood. And because I do believe now this
(27:02):
isn't with everyone, but in particular the people that I
was working with on The Gilded Age, because I really
love them. We've worked together on other shows too. It's
almost it's like they're hiring the people they know, they're
hiring people they worked with before, and they're not necessarily
thinking that way, but when it's pointed out, they're like, yeah,
you're right, it wasn't done with any like malice. Now
(27:26):
we're gonna help. Now, we are going to be conscious
about our choices. And so I am I kind of
work and more like, I'm a quiet person who works
her way to doing certain things and adding adding that diversity.
And you know one thing I want to answer that
Gammian and Sally, It is really shocking all the time
(27:49):
how many black people don't know young black people who
want to be in this business, who don't know all
of the opportunities that exist behind the cam. This is
what I'm talking about, what I'm talking about exactly, and
this is I mean, even just doing this podcast, I
(28:10):
wanted a black producer. I have a black producer like
that was that was a must. I I went recently,
I went back to my hometown where I'm doing a
huge project UM in Camden, New Jersey. I visited our
high school, which has an amazing performing arts department, and
in the department, people really all the kids like we're
(28:33):
trying to be in front of the camera. I asked
a question. I said, how many of you like to cook?
So many hands went up. How many of you like
to do hair? How many of you like to do
make up? How many of you want to be a stylist?
I mean, I asked the and then I separated them
in those categories, and I'm like, do you realize even driving,
(28:58):
how many of you like to drive? I separated them
into categories and I talked to them about how much
money they could make in those categories. They were in shock.
And I think that we need to encourage more young
people to pursue careers behind the scenes in this space,
(29:20):
because you can make two or three hundred tho dollars
a year just driving. Listen. I mean, this is so important,
This is so important, and this is exactly why I
wanted to have the conversation because people don't think about
all of this all the all they see is in
front of the camera. But then and they're thinking that big, big,
(29:44):
big money, and not everybody is gonna get that, not
even the act exactly exactly, exactly exactly. Yeah, but I'm
but I it's something that I really think is important,
you know, for us to encourage people, you know, young
people to just consider you know, so that we can
(30:06):
see more of us. Yeah, exactly, and so that I
mean honestly, so you don't get to the point. There
are times on a show like Gilded, which is such
a big machine, if you're not giving those small opportunities
and smaller jobs. When I'm looking for someone who's ready,
I can't just bring you in if you're not ready,
(30:28):
and that show, it's a big show. So I'm calling
all sorts of people to go who is ready for
this opportunity because I can't mess it up. I can't
bring you in and it's not right because they won't
give you another shot. No, you got that right, and
(30:49):
that par sally, So I get. What I'm hearing is
that you should not be discouraged when you have to
start out at the what you guys call below the
line positions like pas and things like that, and you
can have to kind of work your way up to
(31:11):
the quote unquote above the line positions will be executive producers.
And that nowadays people don't uh, they just want to
jump boom. They there, They don't want the steps right,
because I didn't have so many situations when these young
people think that they can they can do it, like
(31:32):
I got it, I got it, I got it. I'd
be like, but you don't got it. You don't know it,
and you have no idea. And I'm just getting there.
I'm in my PA and I still and every step
I go, I go, oh god, I don't know how
to do this part. I hope I can do this part,
you know, and I just go anyway. You know. Yeah,
(31:56):
it's interesting. So where do you hope to entertainment industry
goes from here? Um? Shoot, that's a hard that's a
hard question, I think, and it's a very broad question too.
I think this I think this time for us, you know,
there's always been these little waves of black people are
(32:19):
working a lot. We're doing all these shows, and then
we disappear and then we have to find our way
back up. I feel like because of the amount of
people who are behind the camera now, who are creating
their own shows, black writers and producers, UM, where we're
doing our own content. I feel like it we're not
(32:39):
going away this time. I feel like we're there to
stay and um that's all. That's all. I would you know,
I ain't trying to go there and I'm trying to
bring more people with me. Yeah, absolutely, And I agree
with you. I kind of feel like we need more, um,
definitely need more more people behind the scenes than in
(33:03):
front of the camera. I feel like we need a lot,
we need more more writers. I agree, I agree, but
you know, let me go. I'm so I'm so removed
(33:24):
from from all of this, really, I mean, I just
I think that we have so many stories to tell,
you know, and so much content that is not being created.
I think we need creators. And I think that's what
Sidra is. I think, honestly that's what Sidra Um has
been there at the forefront of this um and she
(33:47):
is really a pioneer doing these things behind the scenes
that people don't know about. And um, and there's more
and more um there, there are more and more people
that are understanding that producing and the power of the pen.
I wish I could write and the power of the
pen is where the power of the pen. Yeah, and
let me tell you I agree with them with needing
(34:10):
more writers. And I feel like for the people who
are really ready to do the work, Like I'm constantly
looking for writers who are good but whatever may have
had that opportunity. But there is a pool, like I'm seeing.
I feel like some stuff is about to happen because
(34:30):
a lot of these young black female writers in particular
that I've come across are hungry and focused and not playing.
I just I just put a couple of young black
female writers on the team to get some stuff done.
And I'm like, super, super, super, I will do I mean,
(34:51):
I mean, honestly, I have this deal at HBO, and um,
you know, we've sold two projects. But I'm looking and
looking and and and then you want to give it
to black writers, like you said, you have to get
you have to be given those small steps to be
able to do the big stuff. But I find and
I find this with a lot of writers, it's not great.
(35:14):
Just like there's not a lot of great actors. There's
not a lot of great writers, and there's not a
lot of great actors who understand nuance, and there's not
a lot of great writers who understand. Like I read
stuff and I'm like, this is being made and I'm like,
to me, I'm like that about then you are offering.
(35:35):
But I hear that all the time. I hear that
all the time, just listening into Jada and Will. They're like,
you know what, we want to do this, but the
writing it's just it's just not right right, it's not
good enough yet. And what drives me crazy sometimes about
these studios that I'm noticing is that they'll see a
show right that a writer may have done a really
(35:59):
good job, but they wrote it. They've been with that
particular thing. To me, sometimes writers who come up with
their own ideas aren't always the writers to execute someone
else elves idea absolutely do you know what I'm saying?
(36:19):
And then they'll say, oh, just because that movie was successful,
let's use that person. But then it's like what they
wrote is like completely different. It's their first thing. It's like,
don't be afraid and don't be afraid to to meet
with and get pictures from people who ain't never done nothing,
(36:42):
you know, instead of just going to that person who's
hot at the time, who write you know what I mean?
And a lot of people who are hot at the time,
ain't that good time has passed? Like you're like fair moved, Sally,
(37:05):
don't even get me. I'm behind I'm behind the scenes now,
so I know what's happening. That's all I got. And
let me just say to what the audience really needs
to understand is how much power there is behind the scenes.
And that's why I wanted to have you two ladies
on here, because there's power behind here. You have you
(37:28):
have influence and a lot of things and how things
move and how things work and how things go. So
more than I had. I'm still working of some more, alright,
so for each of you, and we'll start with you, Sally,
what are you currently working on? I am I'm not
(37:52):
where I'm still I'm producing obviously on the Gilded Age. Yeah,
I don't think I'm allowed to say right now, but
I am going to be another producer and director on
another one. Of their shows, but I can't say yes, um,
but it's good. Well, I mean, you know, and yeah,
(38:13):
and so that's giving me busy and shows that we're
you know, I'm developing over there on HBO. So you're
focusing on your deal with HBO and you're still focusing
right now on your producing and directing. Yes, and what
about you, Sidra, I Love and Selling Girl. So I'm
(38:34):
just like, I'm loving all it is. Wow. You know,
it's funny. You know, we have one of one of them.
One of the shows that I developed is on b
ET Plus. It's called I Love Tell Yes, and I'm
working on season two. So I'm like working through the
development of that, you know, literally a couple of projects
(38:56):
in development over with Essen Studios and just excited about it.
We're launching our first Essence Film Festival. That's happening. Yeah,
that's launching at Essence Festival this year, and so I'm
really excited to see what kind of new emerging artists
that we come across and um, and just constantly developing
(39:20):
and producing and supporting projects that I believe in. So
I'm excited, you know. And the bio pick the Angela
Davis biopick. You know, we got that over at lions Gate,
So trying to get that in a good place when
I'm putting this in your in your mind, so you
need to get out listening. They need to do a
cover with all the women behind the camera, all the
(39:41):
beautiful you ain't never lied, ye that out there, ye listen,
we'll pitch that today. How about that? Absolutely? How about
and you can can do it on my own. But
I'm gonna ask you, I know, you know somebody over there.
(40:05):
I'm gonna get on that now. Okay, I got I
got one final question for you guys, and it's kind
of a no brainer. I probably don't even need to
ask it, but I'm gonna asking anyway. Why do you
think diversity is so important in front of the camera
and behind the camera. Just different perspectives on life. Yeah,
(40:28):
my perspective is different than yours, Gammy, and then yours, Sidra.
So we need we all, we need a million different
voices for us to understand each other. Um as people,
I'm got it. Yeah. And for me, you know, what
I just think about is just us controlling just us
as as people of color, controlling our narratives. And that's
(40:53):
why it's so important to support our stories and that
we be in the front of that so that a
hundred years from now, a thousand years from now, when
people are seeing stories about people of color, we know
that we help drive some of those narratives. You know
what I mean, because the way black people tell black
(41:15):
stories is different from how white people tell black stories.
So absolutely all right, as we wrap up, I'm gonna
have a few rapid fire questions for you guys. Oh
(41:37):
they're easy, don't worry about it. What book are you
currently reading? And we'll start with you, Sidra. You know
what I'm reading. I'm checking out this book called Gray Boy,
about this kid that is kind of a black kid
navigating himself through a white world. And it's funny. I
(41:57):
picked it up because y'are Shahiti just watching the book.
It's like they're turning it into a series, so I'm
curious to see the before and but it's pretty good.
A young writer. Yeah, okay, okay, what about you, Sally
my my, this is how I'm trying to be a mother.
(42:17):
It's called How to Make Your Kids, Uh Money genius?
I love it. Can I get that book? I listen?
I listened on audible because I am not. You know,
I have to hire people to do all this stuff
because you could explain to me all day. I'll just
be like, huh, So i'd my kids like, Okay, what
do I have to teach you so that you know
(42:38):
how to invest and know how to do all this
stuff without me? So that's I love that. What's one
thing that you want to get off your chest? Sally
um to tell people to stop getting stuff off their
chest and shut up. If you want to get something
off your chest, tell your friends at home, and don't
(42:58):
tell it on any thing in social media. Shut up,
shut up, shut up, just shut up. I love it.
I was going to I think this has been my
(43:19):
favorite about the Wait wait, I'm gonna I'm gonna add
to with Sally just said. What I want to get
off my chest is for people to mind it. Go
down and shut up, right, mind your business and shut up. Okay,
(43:41):
what's the bottle that you live by? CenTra? Mind your business? Period?
Done that. I mean that for people, and I even
mean that for myself because you know, sometimes you'll see
some ship happening and it's like, mind your business. Yeah,
you ain't got nothing to do. With that, ain't got
(44:02):
nothing to do. Mind your business, and I think that
that's my that's my model, mind your business. I mena
get her. I'm manna give her two more because I
know this is her too. Be earlier all the time
and work harder than everyone else. There are a lot
of people. I'm sure they could be more talented than me,
but they ain't gonna work as hard as me. So
(44:23):
there you go, and guess what Now, I got one more. Okay,
it ain't about your business and shut up. Yeah, there
you get off with y'all. I'm getting off with d
Tell people where they can find you on social media,
salar um, it's uh. Instagram is at Sally rich Witt,
(44:47):
and I think on Twitter it's just Sally richardson center.
Where can we find you on social media? You can
find me at Cidra Smith Official on Instagram, and so
that's at Sidra Smith Official on Instagram. Man, I love you, guys,
I swear to you. This has been my favorite conversation.
(45:13):
And here are my takeaways from Sally. Be ready so
you don't have to get ready because you never know
when that opportunity is going to present itself. From Sidra
there's so many opportunities for careers behind the camera. You
do not have to be in front of the camera
to have a successful career in entertainment. Do your research.
(45:37):
There's something out there for you, and that's our show
for today. You can follow me online at gammy. Nari's
also help us out by leaving a five star review
on Apple Podcast and by hitting the follow button on
I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. I had fun. I
hope you did too. Positivity gam is used by Red
(46:00):
Table Talk podcast and I Heart Radio. Executive producers are
Adrian Vanfield, Naris Balin, Jethro and Jada Pinkett Smith. Our
audio engineer is Calvin Baylor, and our associate producer is
Irene Bischoff Burger. Our theme song is produced by d Beats.
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively gam Now.
Many of you know how much I love movies and TV,
and often you'll see me shouting out different black artists
and creative because I think it's important to uplift and
celebrate the joy these people have brought to our community today.
I have two incredible women joining me on this episode,
(00:31):
both of whom I have a personal connection to um
But I really want what I really wanted to emphasize
in this conversation because when people go to the movies
and when people think about the entertainment business, they really
just think about actors and who they see in front
(00:54):
of the camera. And I get that because that's who
we see. But there's so much going on behind in
the scenes, so many important people and careers, and that's
kind of what I want to focus on. And these
women are really killing it in the game right now.
So my first guest is Sally Richardson Whitfield. She has
(01:16):
over thirty years of experience as an actress, starring in
movies like Low Down, Dirty Shame, where she was Jada's
nemesis Angelo, one of my favorite movies. I must say, uh,
and then you were in. I am legend with will
and willow Um and so many It just goes. The
(01:37):
list just goes on and on for you. Sally Antoine
Fisher um the TV show Eureka. She is also a
director and producer. Currently she's directing an executive producing The
Guilded Age on HBO, which I love. And also you
are directing some episodes of Winning Time. And then I
(01:59):
have my special guest, Cidra Smith. She is an award
winning producer and also serves as executive producer and co
founder of Essence Studios, overseeing the fifty year old brands scripted,
unscripted and feature film projects. And I really didn't know
you were doing all of that. I really didn't now,
(02:22):
and that's how Yeah, you were the producer for the
Angela Davis film and you actually brought Jada in as
a need RECTI producer. Yes, yeah, that was a great
project too. That was a great project. So welcome to
(02:44):
both of you. I thank you so much for taking
the time to join me because I know how busy
you guys are. But I want to start with you, Sidra,
how did you get started in the entertainment industry? Did
you start out as a model, you know I did, actually,
league of course, and then realize, wait, and then realized
(03:05):
I liked eating pasta more than modeling. Okay, literally when
you know, it's funny because when Tasha and I moved
to l A when we were like eighteen years old,
we started off hanging out in comedy clubs and Tasha
was pursuing her career as a comedian and I was
(03:27):
modeling and hanging out in comedy clubs. And then one
day I got a job in France, went there for
three months, worked and then went to Italy and worked
for almost two years, and decided that I just could
not keep up with them skinny girls because I was
trying to eat the pasta and drink the wine. So
(03:50):
let me hold off for a minute, just with the listeners.
Sidra has a twin sister, Tasha Smith, who I'm sure
you guys will all no as an actress from many
many movies. Yeah. Yeah, So I just realized that I
just could not keep up with the skinny girls in Italy.
(04:10):
Came back to l A and then started working in
production from an assistant to a production assistant to a coordinator,
and then started casting and then found my space as
a producer. And uh, and it's been an amazing journey. Okay,
so tell me exactly what producer's role is. What what
(04:34):
does that mean to be a producer? You know, when
someone has an idea, you know, everything starts with an idea,
taking that idea to putting together the right development team,
developing the script, finding the right director, finding the right writer, actor, cinematographer, sets,
(05:00):
getting it shot, packaged and sold and then so and
supporting and supporting the directors because if a director doesn't
have a producer who's fully supporting their vision, then a
lot of times it makes the director's you know, job difficult.
(05:22):
So you know, it's just it's planting, is setting the
stage for everything that needs to happen to bringing an
idea to life. So, Sally, let me ask you, because
you have such a career as an actress in front
of the camera, what made you make this switch? Well, Um, honestly,
(05:49):
it was I was doing Ava dubern as first film.
You know, she had done documentaries at that point. Um,
it was called I Will Follow And during that process
I probably was just talking too much and give my
ideas too much. But I'm like, um, but sometimes during
that process. Ava looked at me and said, Sally, I
(06:13):
think you're a director and you don't know it, and
something about her just breathing that into me. I it's
like my life flashed before me. And I was that
person who sat at the sat there with a DP
DP and asked questions about what's going on and paid attention,
(06:34):
and also the one going well, I don't know that.
Why don't they just do this and this and this,
and then we could do that, you know. And so
I was on Eureka at the time. I called a
friend of mine, Eric Lanaville, who is a director hundreds
of hours of TV, and said, Eric, I think I
want to give this a shot, but of course, you know,
you have to do it the right way. I said,
let me shadow you. Ava gave me some books. I
(06:57):
found some other books, shadowed him on a few projects,
then asked my show and they said yes. And after
that first episode, or like literally within the first few hours,
I went, oh, I understand this. I get this, and
then I did another one. Then my kids were young,
(07:19):
it wasn't the time to you know, it is like
going back to say medical school or law school. All
of a sudden, Um, you have to really immerse yourself
in it, and it takes a lot of time away
from your family. So they were older. Anyway, I just
started then I UM. Then all of a sudden, Queen
Sugar was happening. I had just found an agent. This
(07:41):
is like a few years later, decided UM started shadowing
people again, and my husband was on Queen Sugar. I
went to visit him. I'm trying to make this a
short story, and I run and I see you here
for I UM because I had called aiban. I said, hey,
I hear you doing the show down. He's only blah blah.
I want to direct. She goes, oh my god, already
(08:02):
cast you know, already hired all the directors. I didn't know.
I go, fine, it's not the right thing. Then cut
to visiting the set. First person I see getting out
of the car with Dandre is Ava and she goes,
oh my god, I can't believe you're here. Come talk
to me. Sat down. She goes, I can't do my episodes.
Do you want tom? I said, wow, But you know
(08:25):
I was ready. I had been backs and had my agent.
I was you know, it all has to can't be
just you know, you just flying around has to all
come together. That's a classic case of being in the
right place at the right time and about meets opportunity,
(08:46):
you know, and being ready and then all of that
just and from there. Let me tell you Facebook work
for me. And then I started posting that I was
shooting that, and then other directors I had been working
with who had direct did me and who had worked
on Eureka, said hey, I see your directing again. UM
I need someone for my show. Why don't you come
(09:08):
over that with Shadow Hunters. He goes, there's a lot
of visual effects. You started doing that on Eureka. Some
of this stuff I can just walk you through. I
know you'll get it. Went over there. Someone else saw
I was directing. Hey, how she doing over there? She's
doing great. You should hire her. Um. So it just
kind of I didn't know I was giving up acting
at the time, and then it just started. It was
(09:30):
like an avalanche. Well how do you feel about that?
Do you do? You do you feel like you're missing
something or it sounds like you're you're really fulfilled by
this directing position. I am. I absolutely love what I'm doing,
though there are times because I'm very lucky to be
(09:52):
working with like amazing, amazing caliber actors, um on work
that is really good stuff. Where go I want to
jump in there? Um? And I actually look at Tasha
and Regina and I go, they found a way to
do both for me, and I just felt like I
had to kind of immerse myself in it. Um. But
(10:15):
I don't think you know they're gonna be something for me? Uh,
sidros with me in something and listen, Yes, the girl,
you already know you already well, sid let me ask you.
(10:40):
Let me jump back to you and ask you this question.
How do you decide what projects you're gonna take on?
You know you have to be passionate, Gammy, you know
why this takes too much work? Like the days of
just doing stuff unnecessarily are just over. Like if you're
not passionate about a project, more than likely you won't
(11:03):
see it through. So I really look at something and say,
let me tell you. The first thing I say to
myself is what I do this for free? Because it
takes a long time sometimes to get things over the
finish line. And if you feel like, whether I'm getting
paid or not, I would do this project. It's something
(11:27):
that you know, if it's something that really speaks to
your soul, speaks to your legacy, things, speaks to things
that you really believe in in the stories you want
to leave behind for people to say, Wow, sich Smith
did that or was a part of that? You know,
I kind of start there. You know, did you have
(11:47):
ever have any desire to be in front of the
camera as an actress? Oh my god, let me tell
you no, Although when you're a twin you know that no, no, no,
And let me tell you I knew. I'll never forget.
Tasha and I were like nineteen no, not like eighteen
(12:09):
like when we first because it was before Italy. We
were living in l A. Someone cast us in a
McDonald's commercial and I was like, this was taken too long.
I'm like, wait a minute. It was going into like overtime.
And I was on my way to see Luther andros
in Vegas and I was like, the car was outside.
(12:32):
I said, guess what I'm out, Les said, and Tasha
was his. She was like, you were not. I was like,
I'm out, I'm not doing this. I'll never forget. The
casting director was this guy named Peter Wise. Y'all know,
Peter was like Peter was like, you know, he never
(12:53):
cast me in another And I was like, Na, this
isn't for me. What about you, Sally, How do you
decide what projects? Because you there's so much diversity with
what you've done, like the Guilded Age. I know, well,
in the beginning, I took everything, and I mean and
(13:15):
when I say everything, not everything. I wanted to conquer,
like every different kind of genre that came to me. Um, okay,
so it's sci fi, it's an action show. Oh, this
is pure drama. This is half hour comedy. This is
our comedy. Um. Because I didn't want anyone to ever
when I'm now that I've moved up the ranks, um
(13:37):
as I'm pretty bigger projects. I didn't want you to
ever be able to say, yeah, but does she know
how to do this? Has she done this? Yes? There's
nothing you can throw at me now that I haven't
in some way directed so. But now, of course I'm
very particular about what I'm doing. Um. I am uh
(13:58):
developing my own show and in like in like um
Sidrius saying I have to live with it. If I'm
going to be at the Gilded Age, that's a thank you.
It's a year or two of my life, and and
away from your family and away from I mean it
was during COVID. It was nine months in New York.
I barely got to see them because I couldn't go
(14:20):
back and forth. So it was, you know, I have
to really love it and and want to see my
name on it and want to be proud of it,
the same as my acting. I have to live with
this forever, and I want and I only want to
do quality work. I just, um get very picky about
what I think is good. I don't think much is good. Yeah,
(14:46):
a lot of things giggle or like that was good.
I'm like, but was it you got a different scale? Yes? Well,
talking about judging, what were you both seeing model for
you as black women working in the entertainment business, Sally,
(15:09):
was was there a particular person that you were looking to?
Who were your role models? I have to tell you,
I don't know really if there was for me. You know,
I had to think about this question a lot because
people have always asked this, and then I started making
up people because I'm like, I'm supposed to have an
answer because you think you're supposed to and and I
(15:31):
and I didn't. I just um, this is what I
wanted to do. I went to l A. Obviously, as
I was watching you know, a Different World on TV
right around the time I was moving to California, I was,
you know, watching the Cosovy Show. So there were you know,
there was you know, um, the Jefferson's growing up. You know,
there were things for me to to see and focus on,
(15:54):
but not necessarily where I completely saw myself. And I
have no idea why my parents were both educators. I
have no idea why I thought this was something I
should be doing, but it was the only thing I
was great at and I just went for it. So
um so no, I just I didn't and I'm hoping
to be that person now for other people. Yes, I
(16:18):
feel you, Sally. You know what's interesting about that question.
I feel like I was like I feel like my crew.
You know when you think about it, Sally, We've been
like our crew over the last thirty years and just
all the fun we had, you know, from twenty one,
(16:40):
just I was so inspired by our crew. Just gave
me inspiration, I think I think about I think you're
right because until I go to l A and found
this small little community, it's I mean, we all came
up together. It's Jada um like we used to have
(17:06):
so much fun playing a lot of babies. Uh yeah,
playing a lot of space. Um. But he did all
come up together. We all came up together. And it's
amazing that that our little group that everyone has done something.
Everyone has grown and changed and different had taken different
(17:30):
lanes maybe, but everyone has done probably different more than
they thought they were going to do. I'm telling you
I was thinking the same thing, and when I saw
Sally was a part of this, I was thinking to myself,
does Sally have any idea that she would be this kick? Asked?
Can I say? Asked director? Because because that was that's
(17:52):
my next question? What what are some of the challenges
that both of you have come up again? As H
B I C S And then change that B B
C Right, I'm gonna like to send you you go first,
You go first, and I'll jump in you. You know what,
(18:14):
I would say, some of the early challenges were in
terms of just as a producer, financing. You know, you're
always looking for that financing in order to get that
project done right, and that I would be exhausting. Yeah,
but you know what I realized what I'm happy I
realized is that it's okay for people to say no,
(18:38):
right because everyone's not gonna like your project. And the
idea is is to find that person who does, because
you want that person to want to do it, to
believe in and you want that whether financing or studio,
you know, you want them to believe in the project
because that's the only way it's gonna happen in a
(19:00):
beautiful way. So whenever I hit a know or it
took a little bit longer, there was always a reason
it made the project better, stronger. It's all about timing,
you know what I mean. It's all about timing. But
early on, I would say financing was the biggest struggle.
(19:21):
Like I look at these young people these days. It's
like the opportunity there is now with all these streamers
and studios, and it's just like wow, it's amazing. I well,
I look at the duction. I know that you have
had to navigate this mostly white, male dominant world the
(19:43):
same way I do, which is you know, um, you
have to you have to pull on all of your
communication skills and righting bob be through this and get
what you want without being too angry, without but being firm,
being the boss, But how do I how do you
love me when we leave here? Even though I have
(20:05):
to put my foot down sometime. So it's been that
is the roller coaster ride and the that I have
to deal with. And then you know, in the beginning,
if they know you're a little green the question and
you're a black woman on the set, which most of
them have never worked with, uh, you get more questions.
(20:27):
And I, luckily early on the DP of my first
DP on Eureka was just like, listen, most of the time,
they're gonna be messing with you, telling you they can't
do something that you want them to do. Just tell them,
just act like you know more than you know, and
they will find and they'll do it. You know, Like listen,
(20:49):
I can't listen. I can't because sometimes I don't know
how you can do that. I just know it can
be done. And I've also learned at this point in
my life, if I can dream it, you can do it.
I don't know how, I don't know what figure it out.
I don't know what tool you're gonna do to do it,
but we're doing it. So and as long as we
have the time to do it. I know how to
you know, I am a producer too. I know, Okay,
(21:10):
we got these few hours, but I'm pretty sure we
can figure this out. But most of mine, I would say,
it's been having to navigate this world of men be
in charge and but still have a good time. I
want to have a good time. I love what I do.
I'm a pretty nice person unless you really be messing
(21:30):
with me. I'm really cool. So let's have from Chicago. Yes,
I'm liking that. There's been a few people who have
found out like, oh, who who is this? I'm like, well,
I kept giving you the look and you kept going
now you. I mean, there's definitely been times on set
where I'm like, okay, you feel that comfortable to disrespect
(21:52):
me here? Now it's on. You're about to get it
in front of everybody too. I bet you. Nobody else doesn't.
I tell you okay, and I know I sound amazing,
but but how do you know? But that always comes late?
Like by then, everyone knows me, they know my temperament,
(22:13):
and they know whoever that person was must have really
pushed her, because that is not who I am. I
want a team, and I want us all to have
a great time and create something amazing. Well, let me
ask you, what what was it that drew you, um
(22:34):
sally to the guilded age? You talked about having conquered
some of the other genres, So was it just doing
a period piece? I think it was the challenge. I mean,
I didn't love these kinds of films. I think that
a lot of people do a lot of people with
color do they think we don't? But I love it
like a dangerous love it. And then it's Julian Fellows
(22:59):
and then as HBO, So what am I gonna say
no to that? And it's the challenge of such a
huge project and and having so now being put in
the position of now becoming the executive producer of that.
I had a lot to say, I had a lot
of I was walking the footsteps of a lot of
(23:20):
the stuff that Sidra does. You know, it's a little
different in TV, but UM learned a lot and um,
but it was my best experience in my life. Awesome. UM, So,
compared to the beginning of your careers, both of you,
now that you're in a higher leadership positions on set,
(23:43):
how has that shifted your perceptive your perspective around inclusivity.
Let's start with you, Sidra Y. It's so interesting because
you know, the one beautiful thing about out, you know,
leading a leading the film and TV vertical within a
(24:07):
brand who is here to serve black women deeply and
people of color deeply. It is like a blessing, you know,
because you get to hire black people who don't always
have the opportunity, you know. I mean, it's like and
(24:27):
it's funny. And this started off early for me. You know.
The first film that I did was in N seven,
and I made sure that my entire crew were women.
They weren't all black women at the time, but they
were they were women, you know what I mean. And
but being in this position, you know, look, there are
(24:49):
times where you might have to hire a person because
they're good at what they do. But when I start,
you know, putting a team together, I'm really looking for
black women, queer women, trans women, you know what I mean,
Black men too, you know, to to to give these
opportunities to because we just don't have them all the time.
(25:12):
What about you, Sally, did you find it difficult finding
um diversity in the crew for the guilded Age? Well,
most of the shows that that is you know, we've
been so focused, um as an entertainment business on black
people in front of the camera. Behind the camera is
really where there's a lack of opportunity. And so I'm
(25:34):
kind of working. I'm working within the system that's already there.
So what I what I'm trying to do when I'm
there is open people's eyes to looking around, going, um,
this makes no sense. How do we get more people
in here? And And because I can do that, now,
I can say, hey, we need to hire here, here,
(25:55):
and here. Um. And I've been very lucky in particularly
learn on on the Gilded Age because after the first season,
I was able to go, Okay, guys, you have me,
you have the other writer who's working with Julian and you.
We have this black historian. I said, And and when
we've done the Black Family, now we got to do
(26:17):
better in the office here. Now we have to do
better with different departments throughout the set, in hair and makeup,
we got to have some black people in here. And
what's been so wonderful is that in in besides HBO,
but with you know, because then you have your onset producers.
They were like just so open to everything. And then
(26:40):
when I came into production for this new season, I
go in the office, I see two three little black
people were you walk around and I'm like, all right,
Like I felt her, I didn't have to keep bringing
it up. We had a conversation and it was done
and they understood. And because I do believe now this
(27:02):
isn't with everyone, but in particular the people that I
was working with on The Gilded Age, because I really
love them. We've worked together on other shows too. It's
almost it's like they're hiring the people they know, they're
hiring people they worked with before, and they're not necessarily
thinking that way, but when it's pointed out, they're like, yeah,
you're right, it wasn't done with any like malice. Now
(27:26):
we're gonna help. Now, we are going to be conscious
about our choices. And so I am I kind of
work and more like, I'm a quiet person who works
her way to doing certain things and adding adding that diversity.
And you know one thing I want to answer that
Gammian and Sally, It is really shocking all the time
(27:49):
how many black people don't know young black people who
want to be in this business, who don't know all
of the opportunities that exist behind the cam. This is
what I'm talking about, what I'm talking about exactly, and
this is I mean, even just doing this podcast, I
(28:10):
wanted a black producer. I have a black producer like
that was that was a must. I I went recently,
I went back to my hometown where I'm doing a
huge project UM in Camden, New Jersey. I visited our
high school, which has an amazing performing arts department, and
in the department, people really all the kids like we're
(28:33):
trying to be in front of the camera. I asked
a question. I said, how many of you like to cook?
So many hands went up. How many of you like
to do hair? How many of you like to do
make up? How many of you want to be a stylist?
I mean, I asked the and then I separated them
in those categories, and I'm like, do you realize even driving,
(28:58):
how many of you like to drive? I separated them
into categories and I talked to them about how much
money they could make in those categories. They were in shock.
And I think that we need to encourage more young
people to pursue careers behind the scenes in this space,
(29:20):
because you can make two or three hundred tho dollars
a year just driving. Listen. I mean, this is so important,
This is so important, and this is exactly why I
wanted to have the conversation because people don't think about
all of this all the all they see is in
front of the camera. But then and they're thinking that big, big,
(29:44):
big money, and not everybody is gonna get that, not
even the act exactly exactly, exactly exactly. Yeah, but I'm
but I it's something that I really think is important,
you know, for us to encourage people, you know, young
people to just consider you know, so that we can
(30:06):
see more of us. Yeah, exactly, and so that I
mean honestly, so you don't get to the point. There
are times on a show like Gilded, which is such
a big machine, if you're not giving those small opportunities
and smaller jobs. When I'm looking for someone who's ready,
I can't just bring you in if you're not ready,
(30:28):
and that show, it's a big show. So I'm calling
all sorts of people to go who is ready for
this opportunity because I can't mess it up. I can't
bring you in and it's not right because they won't
give you another shot. No, you got that right, and
(30:49):
that par sally, So I get. What I'm hearing is
that you should not be discouraged when you have to
start out at the what you guys call below the
line positions like pas and things like that, and you
can have to kind of work your way up to
(31:11):
the quote unquote above the line positions will be executive producers.
And that nowadays people don't uh, they just want to
jump boom. They there, They don't want the steps right,
because I didn't have so many situations when these young
people think that they can they can do it, like
(31:32):
I got it, I got it, I got it. I'd
be like, but you don't got it. You don't know it,
and you have no idea. And I'm just getting there.
I'm in my PA and I still and every step
I go, I go, oh god, I don't know how
to do this part. I hope I can do this part,
you know, and I just go anyway. You know. Yeah,
(31:56):
it's interesting. So where do you hope to entertainment industry
goes from here? Um? Shoot, that's a hard that's a
hard question, I think, and it's a very broad question too.
I think this I think this time for us, you know,
there's always been these little waves of black people are
(32:19):
working a lot. We're doing all these shows, and then
we disappear and then we have to find our way
back up. I feel like because of the amount of
people who are behind the camera now, who are creating
their own shows, black writers and producers, UM, where we're
doing our own content. I feel like it we're not
(32:39):
going away this time. I feel like we're there to
stay and um that's all. That's all. I would you know,
I ain't trying to go there and I'm trying to
bring more people with me. Yeah, absolutely, And I agree
with you. I kind of feel like we need more, um,
definitely need more more people behind the scenes than in
(33:03):
front of the camera. I feel like we need a lot,
we need more more writers. I agree, I agree, but
you know, let me go. I'm so I'm so removed
(33:24):
from from all of this, really, I mean, I just
I think that we have so many stories to tell,
you know, and so much content that is not being created.
I think we need creators. And I think that's what
Sidra is. I think, honestly that's what Sidra Um has
been there at the forefront of this um and she
(33:47):
is really a pioneer doing these things behind the scenes
that people don't know about. And um, and there's more
and more um there, there are more and more people
that are understanding that producing and the power of the pen.
I wish I could write and the power of the
pen is where the power of the pen. Yeah, and
let me tell you I agree with them with needing
(34:10):
more writers. And I feel like for the people who
are really ready to do the work, Like I'm constantly
looking for writers who are good but whatever may have
had that opportunity. But there is a pool, like I'm seeing.
I feel like some stuff is about to happen because
(34:30):
a lot of these young black female writers in particular
that I've come across are hungry and focused and not playing.
I just I just put a couple of young black
female writers on the team to get some stuff done.
And I'm like, super, super, super, I will do I mean,
(34:51):
I mean, honestly, I have this deal at HBO, and um,
you know, we've sold two projects. But I'm looking and
looking and and and then you want to give it
to black writers, like you said, you have to get
you have to be given those small steps to be
able to do the big stuff. But I find and
I find this with a lot of writers, it's not great.
(35:14):
Just like there's not a lot of great actors. There's
not a lot of great writers, and there's not a
lot of great actors who understand nuance, and there's not
a lot of great writers who understand. Like I read
stuff and I'm like, this is being made and I'm like,
to me, I'm like that about then you are offering.
(35:35):
But I hear that all the time. I hear that
all the time, just listening into Jada and Will. They're like,
you know what, we want to do this, but the
writing it's just it's just not right right, it's not
good enough yet. And what drives me crazy sometimes about
these studios that I'm noticing is that they'll see a
show right that a writer may have done a really
(35:59):
good job, but they wrote it. They've been with that
particular thing. To me, sometimes writers who come up with
their own ideas aren't always the writers to execute someone
else elves idea absolutely do you know what I'm saying?
(36:19):
And then they'll say, oh, just because that movie was successful,
let's use that person. But then it's like what they
wrote is like completely different. It's their first thing. It's like,
don't be afraid and don't be afraid to to meet
with and get pictures from people who ain't never done nothing,
(36:42):
you know, instead of just going to that person who's
hot at the time, who write you know what I mean?
And a lot of people who are hot at the time,
ain't that good time has passed? Like you're like fair moved, Sally,
(37:05):
don't even get me. I'm behind I'm behind the scenes now,
so I know what's happening. That's all I got. And
let me just say to what the audience really needs
to understand is how much power there is behind the scenes.
And that's why I wanted to have you two ladies
on here, because there's power behind here. You have you
(37:28):
have influence and a lot of things and how things
move and how things work and how things go. So
more than I had. I'm still working of some more, alright,
so for each of you, and we'll start with you, Sally,
what are you currently working on? I am I'm not
(37:52):
where I'm still I'm producing obviously on the Gilded Age. Yeah,
I don't think I'm allowed to say right now, but
I am going to be another producer and director on
another one. Of their shows, but I can't say yes, um,
but it's good. Well, I mean, you know, and yeah,
(38:13):
and so that's giving me busy and shows that we're
you know, I'm developing over there on HBO. So you're
focusing on your deal with HBO and you're still focusing
right now on your producing and directing. Yes, and what
about you, Sidra, I Love and Selling Girl. So I'm
(38:34):
just like, I'm loving all it is. Wow. You know,
it's funny. You know, we have one of one of them.
One of the shows that I developed is on b
ET Plus. It's called I Love Tell Yes, and I'm
working on season two. So I'm like working through the
development of that, you know, literally a couple of projects
(38:56):
in development over with Essen Studios and just excited about it.
We're launching our first Essence Film Festival. That's happening. Yeah,
that's launching at Essence Festival this year, and so I'm
really excited to see what kind of new emerging artists
that we come across and um, and just constantly developing
(39:20):
and producing and supporting projects that I believe in. So
I'm excited, you know. And the bio pick the Angela
Davis biopick. You know, we got that over at lions Gate,
So trying to get that in a good place when
I'm putting this in your in your mind, so you
need to get out listening. They need to do a
cover with all the women behind the camera, all the
(39:41):
beautiful you ain't never lied, ye that out there, ye listen,
we'll pitch that today. How about that? Absolutely? How about
and you can can do it on my own. But
I'm gonna ask you, I know, you know somebody over there.
(40:05):
I'm gonna get on that now. Okay, I got I
got one final question for you guys, and it's kind
of a no brainer. I probably don't even need to
ask it, but I'm gonna asking anyway. Why do you
think diversity is so important in front of the camera
and behind the camera. Just different perspectives on life. Yeah,
(40:28):
my perspective is different than yours, Gammy, and then yours, Sidra.
So we need we all, we need a million different
voices for us to understand each other. Um as people,
I'm got it. Yeah. And for me, you know, what
I just think about is just us controlling just us
as as people of color, controlling our narratives. And that's
(40:53):
why it's so important to support our stories and that
we be in the front of that so that a
hundred years from now, a thousand years from now, when
people are seeing stories about people of color, we know
that we help drive some of those narratives. You know
what I mean, because the way black people tell black
(41:15):
stories is different from how white people tell black stories.
So absolutely all right, as we wrap up, I'm gonna
have a few rapid fire questions for you guys. Oh
(41:37):
they're easy, don't worry about it. What book are you
currently reading? And we'll start with you, Sidra. You know
what I'm reading. I'm checking out this book called Gray Boy,
about this kid that is kind of a black kid
navigating himself through a white world. And it's funny. I
(41:57):
picked it up because y'are Shahiti just watching the book.
It's like they're turning it into a series, so I'm
curious to see the before and but it's pretty good.
A young writer. Yeah, okay, okay, what about you, Sally
my my, this is how I'm trying to be a mother.
(42:17):
It's called How to Make Your Kids, Uh Money genius?
I love it. Can I get that book? I listen?
I listened on audible because I am not. You know,
I have to hire people to do all this stuff
because you could explain to me all day. I'll just
be like, huh, So i'd my kids like, Okay, what
do I have to teach you so that you know
(42:38):
how to invest and know how to do all this
stuff without me? So that's I love that. What's one
thing that you want to get off your chest? Sally
um to tell people to stop getting stuff off their
chest and shut up. If you want to get something
off your chest, tell your friends at home, and don't
(42:58):
tell it on any thing in social media. Shut up,
shut up, shut up, just shut up. I love it.
I was going to I think this has been my
(43:19):
favorite about the Wait wait, I'm gonna I'm gonna add
to with Sally just said. What I want to get
off my chest is for people to mind it. Go
down and shut up, right, mind your business and shut up. Okay,
(43:41):
what's the bottle that you live by? CenTra? Mind your business? Period?
Done that. I mean that for people, and I even
mean that for myself because you know, sometimes you'll see
some ship happening and it's like, mind your business. Yeah,
you ain't got nothing to do. With that, ain't got
(44:02):
nothing to do. Mind your business, and I think that
that's my that's my model, mind your business. I mena
get her. I'm manna give her two more because I
know this is her too. Be earlier all the time
and work harder than everyone else. There are a lot
of people. I'm sure they could be more talented than me,
but they ain't gonna work as hard as me. So
(44:23):
there you go, and guess what Now, I got one more. Okay,
it ain't about your business and shut up. Yeah, there
you get off with y'all. I'm getting off with d
Tell people where they can find you on social media,
salar um, it's uh. Instagram is at Sally rich Witt,
(44:47):
and I think on Twitter it's just Sally richardson center.
Where can we find you on social media? You can
find me at Cidra Smith Official on Instagram, and so
that's at Sidra Smith Official on Instagram. Man, I love you, guys,
I swear to you. This has been my favorite conversation.
(45:13):
And here are my takeaways from Sally. Be ready so
you don't have to get ready because you never know
when that opportunity is going to present itself. From Sidra
there's so many opportunities for careers behind the camera. You
do not have to be in front of the camera
to have a successful career in entertainment. Do your research.
(45:37):
There's something out there for you, and that's our show
for today. You can follow me online at gammy. Nari's
also help us out by leaving a five star review
on Apple Podcast and by hitting the follow button on
I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. I had fun. I
hope you did too. Positivity gam is used by Red
(46:00):
Table Talk podcast and I Heart Radio. Executive producers are
Adrian Vanfield, Naris Balin, Jethro and Jada Pinkett Smith. Our
audio engineer is Calvin Baylor, and our associate producer is
Irene Bischoff Burger. Our theme song is produced by d Beats.
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