July 11, 2025 • 24 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed on this program are solely
those of the speakers and not necessarily those of GEB America,
Oral Roberts University, or their employees. This program is not
intended to offer investment, financial, medical, legal, or any other advice.
Viewers should consult a subject matter professional regarding any such matters.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Everyone, I'm David Groves, GEB America General Manager and the
co host of the GEB America podcast. I want to
welcome you to another special episode today here in the
studios of GEB. You know, recently we've had some really
great guests talking about leadership, thought processes on leadership, and
(00:54):
today we have a real treat for you. The president
of Oral Roberts University, who is an amazing leader in
his own right down with the renowned expert of our lifetime,
John Maxwell. He took some time in the studio with
him to talk to him about vision, what to do
if God has given you this big vision, where do
you start? And of course some great topic tips on leadership.
(01:15):
So what we want you to do today is enjoy
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So you're always notified when we drop new episodes and
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(01:37):
and be sure that you share the podcast episode today
with John Maxwell and doctor Billy Wilson on your social media. Now,
I hope you enjoy this episode and I appreciate you
as always being a valuable member of our podcast family.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Hello. I'm doctor Billy Wilson, President of Oil Robert University,
and I'm coming to you from the David and Barbara
Green Center for Global Leadership, and today we have with
us a very special guest. He is probably the leadership
expert in all the world. He's one of my friends.
I've read multiple volumes of his books. It's informed my
leadership journey in a great way. And we're just so
(02:13):
honored to have John mixwell with us today. John, welcome
to ORU. Welcome to our Leadership podcast, and it's going
to be a great day to share with this leadership expert.
Today we're going to be talking about vision. Now at ORU,
we have a number of initiatives and goals for our students,
they're called outcomes. We talk about spiritual integrity, we talk
(02:36):
about personal resilience, global engagement, intellectual pursuit. But the final
goal we work on with every student that comes to
RU is bold vision come. And today I want to
talk about vision, How vision comes to us? And then
what do we do when we feel like God has
given us something he wants us to pursue. So let's
(02:57):
start right at the top, John, how do you know
when you're getting a vision that may be something God
wants you to do? How do you know that You've
had lots of them in your life?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, I know that had I've had some visions. I'm
not sure that God wanted to do that. I think
I had some personal visions. I've had some of those.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Two.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, I think there's nothing wrong with some personal visions
and goals for yourself. But I think the difference is
I think when it's a God vision, it always adds
value to other people. It's not about me, it's about them.
And I think that so many times when people think
of their vision, they think of what they want to accomplish,
(03:35):
and I think it's more what could I help other
people accomplish? You know if I stay it, if I
keep it with just me, as you know, doctor Wilson
is going to stay small. But at the moment I
include others, it just begins to enlarge and becomes bigger,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Well, you know people off the scripture that really made history,
or visionaries. Abraham was a vision Mary, Moses, David, the Apostle,
Paul obviously great visions. And Jesus was a visionary. He
envisioned a future for his church and his followers that
was way beyond what they saw at the moment, no doubt. Now,
(04:11):
when you feel like that God has birthed something in
you and you've got a vision, what do you do then?
I mean that's what I really want to talk about
with those that are watching us. What do you do
with this thing that you feel like as a vision
from God?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, first of all, I think if it's a God vision,
you understand that he's the source and he'll provide the resources.
I had a person one time who shared with me,
this is several years ago. They said, I think God
called me to be an evangelist, but nobody's booking me.
I said, you may be called yourself, you know, what
I mean. I think if it's a god vision, he's
(04:46):
going to provide the way, and he's going to help
us to accomplish what he's laid on our heart. You know,
one of the things that I teach I think that
will be very helpful to all of us, is that
there's really only one thing that all all great leaders
have in common, I mean, regardless of country culture, as
I've studied leadership and taught leadership around the world, and
(05:08):
that is that the great leaders they see more than
others see, and they see before.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
Others see good.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So they see a bigger picture and they see it
a little bit more quickly. And so I think that's
the I think that's what sets.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
The great leaders apart from others.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And what's beautiful is that if we understand that there
are things that we can do to see more, and
there's things that we can do to see before. But
I think that's what sets the vision. Is really what
sets the leader apart from everybody else.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I think so John now, John Maxwell leadership one O
one says leadership is influenced.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Okay, nothing more.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I got that down, you got it.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
But but I'll let you just go ahead talk just.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Sad to say. One of my favorite definitions of leadership
is not that it's yours one lot of favorites, but
break my heart. No. One of my favorite definitions of
leadership was about Warren Vennis who said leadership is the
capacity to translate a vision into reactionality.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
It's a great I love that.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
And because you're influencing people the whole time, you're doing.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That, Yes, and I can I talk about that because
that's one of my favorite definitions. As soon as you said,
Warren Bennis, I knew exactly what you're going to say,
and I think it is a great definition of success.
I would like to really get practical here for a bit.
Good that's what we want, because you know as well
as I do. If I see the vision, but I
have the don't have the capacity to help other people
(06:33):
see it, that this vision is not going to do well.
I think great leaders take their vision from me to
Wei and I tell people if there's not if there's
not a we in the vision, uh, it's just to me,
it's going to be probably too small. So let let's
let's talk about that for a moment. When I think
of communicating a vision, when I look at my team,
(06:56):
the people I'm leading, my audience. When I'm speaking, there
are four questions I ask myself, and these four questions
really help bring not only clarity to the vision, but
it really makes the I think these four questions make
the vision contagious. So I'm going to give them an order.
(07:18):
When when I look at my team, or if I
like today, I've just had the privileges speaking here or
Robertson University with so many of the business people in
the community, when I when I look at the people
in front of me, the first question I ask myself
is what do I want the people to see? And
what I want the people to see is possibility. So
(07:38):
that's who I am. I'm kind of like a possibility
teacher communicator when when when I'm teaching them, I want
them to see possibilities that they've never perhaps even dared
to reach for. I'm a I'm a lidlifter, and so
when I teach and when I lead, I'm very intentional.
(07:59):
I want them to see their possibilities. Now, what do
I want them to know?
Speaker 5 (08:02):
That's the second question. Well, I want them to know
that I value them.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Because I've discovered that until people know that you really
value them, There's not much you can do to add
value to them. So it really is caring for people,
loving for people, being Jesus like obviously. So I want
them to know that I value them. Now I go
and what do I want them to feel?
Speaker 5 (08:26):
It's good.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I want them to feel empowered. I want them to
feel that when I'm finished, that they can accomplish the
challenge I've given them.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I want them to realize that.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
They can do this, and they have a kind of
a spirit of I'm going to go do this, and
I think, you know, I don't want the people to
look at me and say He's amazing. I don't want
them look at themselves and say I'm amazing and God's amazing.
Look what we can do. So I want them to
see their possibilities. I want them to know that they're valued.
I want them to feel empowered. And then what do
I want them to do? I want them to apply
(09:00):
what I've taught and multiply Because my audience is leadership.
What I do is I try to add value to
leaders who multiply value to others. So I want them
to apply this to their life. But then I want
them to multiply it to others. Now, the reason I
say that, of course, you know that you're a terrific
leader and a visionary yourself. But the reason I say
that to the people that would be watching us today
(09:22):
is I think great vision begins with intentionality.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
I think that once I know what I.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Want them to see, no, feel, and do, if I
speak directly to those four things, they will see it
and know it, and feel it and do it. And
I think that's the response we're looking for. But I
don't think we get the response that we're looking for
until we know the response that we're looking for begin
(09:49):
with the end of mind. So I think a lot
of times people think of visions. I just cast this
incredible future of what we could be, and I'm looking.
I say, really, until you connect with where they are,
you can't take them to where you're going. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So it's simple, but it really works for me as
far as when I try to help people kind of
catch the big picture.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
I just asked those four questions.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
So, John, you've become obviously one of the leadership experts
in all the world, maybe the leadership expert. Your books
have been prolific me. The people have read them. I
have have so many other leaders around the world. What
was a driving vision that pushed you to move into
leadership development at such a high level.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I love the question because there was a driving vision.
I can remember well, when I was twenty four, I
started off as a pastor. Okay, and so I have
my little first church like everybody did.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Well, you had a pretty big church in San Diego too.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, well it got big.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But again, if you understand leadership, that's what I think,
that's part of what happened. Sure, but I remember when
I was twenty four. I can still remember after six
months to a year of just really thinking about this thought,
one day I just said, no, this is I buy
into this. I remember the day I con said to myself,
everything rises and falls on leadership, everything, not most things, everything,
(11:11):
And it's true. I think in government, I think it's true.
In education, I think it's true. In business, I think
it's true. In the church world, everything rises and falls
on leadership, you know, doctor Wilson. When I came to
that conclusion, I asked myself, what could I do better
than give my life to helping people learn to lead?
But if I can help them or learn to lead,
they're going to do well in their life. So that
(11:32):
was kind of my passion. What's interesting is that I
was twenty four. I'm seventy eight now, So fifty four
years later, Well, here's what I know. What I thought
was true at twenty four.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
I know is true at seventy eight.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And it's kind of wonderful to, you know, put fifty
years of your life plus into something that as a
young person you felt to be true and you discovered
it is true and then say, I really kind of
stayed in the leadership lane all my life because everything
still rises and falls.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
On leadership exactly. Right.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Yeah, that's a great insight, and I think it's propelled
you to a lifetime of equipping people a little over
the world, the largest equipping leadership equipping agency in the world.
You're seventy eight years old now, John, Yeah, I am. Yeah.
What's your compelling vision today?
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Well? I have one?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, in fact, let me if I can just just
put in context the moment.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I have fourteen books you had to write that I
know of.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I mean, I've got I've got a Yeah, I have
a like you're killing no it's because I haven't.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Gotten that writing, but I've got that.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They're kind of like in the Birthing book line, you know,
you know, write me and one of the books I
would love to write.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I would like to.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's in the form of a question, that is, is
there a finish line? Yeah, And I think for the
vast majority of people there is. I mean, I think
it's itself and post I think. But I think somebodple
say when I get a certain age, I'm going to
retire or make so much money or whatever, and I
have no finish line. I like that if you have
(13:12):
a finish line, if I say, at this age, I'm
going to you know, stop or whatever. What I have
to understand is when I cross that line, I'm finished.
And is there anything more sad than a person that
still has life? But somehow they kind of gave up
and said, well, I'm kind of done. And I look
at them and say, no, you're not done. You know,
(13:33):
if you're still alive, God still has plans for your life.
So I think when you ask the question, which is
such a great question, I don't think I'll ever cross
my finish line. I think I will strive to get there,
but I don't even think I want to cross it.
I want to keep pressing toward that mark. But for
me in two thousand, if you'll remember, if all I
(13:59):
have to really say to you, you with somebody our age,
is the word Enron, and you immediately think of businesses
that said one thing but totally didn't back it up
with their actions, you know, in other words, what they
put on the walls of their offices they didn't have
in their walk.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
And I just got to get off the wall. It's
got to get it. It's got to be in the walk.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And time Warner asked me to write a book on
business ethics and I said, well, I can't do that
and they said, well, I said, because there's no such
thing as business ethics.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
And they said, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Then they're talking about Enron, Tyco and all these companies
and said, look, what do you mean there's no and
I said, there's just ethics.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
There's really just ethics.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And now if you have them, they work in business,
so hey, oh happy day. But I mean you have
to have them. And that was that. As I look back,
that was very pivotal for me because up into that
time I was teaching leadership skills, but I really wasn't
yet talking too much about leadership values, and all of
(14:57):
a sudden I realized that leaderships is about training, but
leadership values is about transformation, and the heart's got to
be right. We have to be better on the inside
than we're on the outside. And so that kind of
put me on a track of saying, we've trained a
lot of leaders, but are there going to be transformation
in their leadership? So it's about twelve thirteen years ago
(15:21):
we said, let's go into countries and see if we
can have small groups around tables, just like a table
like we're sitting at right now, and teach values. And
you know, Malcolm Godwell talks about the tipping point. So
we said, what would happen if we could get over
ten percent of the population of a country sitting around
tables and really learning, discussing good values. What would happen?
(15:45):
So we started with Guatemala. Somebody said, well, you know,
white start with Guatemala. It's because I live in Florida.
It was easy to get to Vautamala. I'm not going
to start in Australia too. You know, you've got to
give it a lot of time and attention, and I
think we're we've been there for thirteen years.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
I think they have about twenty million people. I think
we have.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I think we are in roundtable, small groups. I think
we've put two point eight million through it already. And
I was there about a year ago with the President
of Guatemala and.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
And we were on national TV.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It was talking to the country and he was saying
that the values that we're learning are helping change us.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
And when people learn.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Good values and live good values, they just become more
valuable to themselves and others.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
And so my.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Vision today, you know, if you say what's your what
do you what do you really want to accomplish that
I would like to see a nation transform.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You know, John Wesley is a great model I think.
I think personally in the Christian world, after the Apostle Paul,
I think John Wesley was probably the greatest leader. And
you know, even secular historians give him credit for transforming England.
And as you know, he mentored Wilberforce, and through wilber
(17:00):
Force they literally got slavery abolished and which lake Er,
which Wes, they called the cancer of the country.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
So I have a I have.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
A dream, a vision of of seeing it happen in
my in my lifetime, where I can look and say.
And somebody said, well, how do you know that the
country's transformed? I said, you'll know the country's transformed when
the secular community says it, not when the Christianity says it.
And and when that president of Gualamala said that the
(17:33):
country was changing because of the of the values, I thought, Okay,
this is a little glimpse of what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
So good I hope.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I hope to see it.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
No fantastic, no finish line, transforming countries, totally equipping leaders,
still got fourteen books to write.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, I talked to God.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
I talked to God about it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I talked to God about the other day.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
I said, you know, you really need let me live
a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
You know, I can't do I can't crag fourteen books
out that quickly. And you know, but I honestly think
that really a person of vision.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Dies with the vision still inside of them.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I don't. I don't think like there's a time when
I say the vision is now complete. I you know,
I think it's bigger than this, and I think we
need to have something beyond us. I had a mentor Wow,
this was so important when I was in my twenties,
who said, John, I want you to attempt something so
(18:34):
big for God that if it happens, people who know
you will say you're not that good.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
And they would give God all the credit.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And that's and I thought, isn't that beautiful? I know
your maxwell, you're not that good, but look what's happened,
and only God can get the credit.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
I think that's a good way to live.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Don't you One less question? And you know the Bible
says young men will see vision us guys, but young
men will see vision. I want you to look right
into the camera and talk to a young person, yeah,
who feels like God is birthing something in them. It's
(19:14):
bigger than they are. What are they supposed to do?
What should they do with this that God is working in?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Such a great question, my friend, Let's just talk to
you for a moment. When God gives you a vision,
if it's like me, you'll look at it and you'll say, Wow,
that's that's bigger than me. And that's the position you
want to be in. You want to always see what
you're trying to accomplish and understand without him.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
We can do nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Now, when I was a young leader and I started
off on my vision, I was working hard and I
was a pastor and the church was really growing. And
when I went through a period of a few months
where I was talking to God about, you know, the
words for a lord.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Without me, you can do nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And I was pointing and I said, well, you know,
I've done this and I've done that. I wasn't in
an argument kind of mood. I was just I was
trying to figure it out, and I've done this. And
after a few months, God said, yeah, you've done these things.
But when I say without me you can do nothing,
what I'm really saying to you is without me, you
(20:23):
can do nothing that has eternal consequences. And that was
the day that I realized that for me to be
the catalyst for the vision God gave me, I have
to understand that He is the total source that I've
got to get do my best and use my gifts
for his glory, but He's the source. And because of that,
(20:47):
I think of what Paul said and when he was
talking to the church at Philippi and he was talking
about my God could do all things you know, greater
than what you can, more than you could ever imagine,
more than you could ever think, more than you could
ever dream, way beyond your wildest dreams. But then he
says something very important that God is going to do
(21:08):
the work within you according to you's this is the
day that I realize, isn't it amazing? All these great
things can happen, But He is going to do it
in me, for me and through me, so.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
That it begins to change other life.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That is not only humbling, it is incredibly to me
motivating the fact that God can do with that kind
of work in your life. And so for you that
are young, I want you to know that the dreams
and the visions that God gives you, he wants to bring.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Them to pass. If he laid it on your heart,
he wants to make it a reality, and He's.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Going to do work within you. And I think the
key is being humbled and just saying, God, make you
do the work within me. I'm comfortable with giving you
all the credit. I'm comfortable to be sure to point
to you as the source. But just you do the
work within me, and I'll serve I'll do my very best.
(22:05):
When I realized that he thought bigger dreams than I
had for myself, and when I realized that he was
going to use me to accomplish that, doing the work
within me, it was very motivating to me. And that's
very true for you too. So the work that he's
begne he wants to complete, and I just want to
encourage you. Allow him to do that work within him,
(22:29):
and just be obedient. Be obedient. You know, at seventy eight,
I can look back and I can connect, and you
can probably also, though you're not near as old as
I am. I can look back and I can connect
the dots looking backward, but going forward, you can't connect
the dots. You just live in obedience. Obedience is only
understood on the back end, not the front end. So
just be obedient, be a servant, add value to people,
(22:53):
stay in the game, let him do his work within you.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
And then give him all the glory and give him
all the price. Amen.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Thank you well, thank you for joining us today. It's
been a delight to have Leadership Expert Guru Apostle of
Leadership in the World, John Mixwell with us on this
leadership broadcast. I know your life has been touched and blessed.
We want you to live with bold vision, yes, and
we want you to see the dreams and visions God
(23:19):
puts in your heart come to pass for his glory.
So thank you again for joining us today. And John,
thank you for being at Oh are you You're always
welcome here, friend, and we're cheering you on you those
fourteen books, give me some of them. I want to
read them when you get them done, and no finish
line as you push on through for God. We're cheering
(23:40):
you on God. Bless you. Thanks for being here to
my joy.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Thanks for having me great.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Thank you for joining us for the geb America podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
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Speaker 3 (24:09):
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The views and opinions expressed on this program are solely
those of the speakers and not necessarily those of GEB America,
Oral Roberts University, or their employees. This program is not
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Viewers should consult a subject matter professional regarding any such matters.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Everyone, I'm David Groves, GEB America General Manager and the
co host of the GEB America podcast. I want to
welcome you to another special episode today here in the
studios of GEB. You know, recently we've had some really
great guests talking about leadership, thought processes on leadership, and
(00:54):
today we have a real treat for you. The president
of Oral Roberts University, who is an amazing leader in
his own right down with the renowned expert of our lifetime,
John Maxwell. He took some time in the studio with
him to talk to him about vision, what to do
if God has given you this big vision, where do
you start? And of course some great topic tips on leadership.
(01:15):
So what we want you to do today is enjoy
this podcast, but you've got to share it with a
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So you're always notified when we drop new episodes and
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(01:37):
and be sure that you share the podcast episode today
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I hope you enjoy this episode and I appreciate you
as always being a valuable member of our podcast family.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Hello. I'm doctor Billy Wilson, President of Oil Robert University,
and I'm coming to you from the David and Barbara
Green Center for Global Leadership, and today we have with
us a very special guest. He is probably the leadership
expert in all the world. He's one of my friends.
I've read multiple volumes of his books. It's informed my
leadership journey in a great way. And we're just so
(02:13):
honored to have John mixwell with us today. John, welcome
to ORU. Welcome to our Leadership podcast, and it's going
to be a great day to share with this leadership expert.
Today we're going to be talking about vision. Now at ORU,
we have a number of initiatives and goals for our students,
they're called outcomes. We talk about spiritual integrity, we talk
(02:36):
about personal resilience, global engagement, intellectual pursuit. But the final
goal we work on with every student that comes to
RU is bold vision come. And today I want to
talk about vision, How vision comes to us? And then
what do we do when we feel like God has
given us something he wants us to pursue. So let's
(02:57):
start right at the top, John, how do you know
when you're getting a vision that may be something God
wants you to do? How do you know that You've
had lots of them in your life?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, I know that had I've had some visions. I'm
not sure that God wanted to do that. I think
I had some personal visions. I've had some of those.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Two.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, I think there's nothing wrong with some personal visions
and goals for yourself. But I think the difference is
I think when it's a God vision, it always adds
value to other people. It's not about me, it's about them.
And I think that so many times when people think
of their vision, they think of what they want to accomplish,
(03:35):
and I think it's more what could I help other
people accomplish? You know if I stay it, if I
keep it with just me, as you know, doctor Wilson
is going to stay small. But at the moment I
include others, it just begins to enlarge and becomes bigger,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Well, you know people off the scripture that really made history,
or visionaries. Abraham was a vision Mary, Moses, David, the Apostle,
Paul obviously great visions. And Jesus was a visionary. He
envisioned a future for his church and his followers that
was way beyond what they saw at the moment, no doubt. Now,
(04:11):
when you feel like that God has birthed something in
you and you've got a vision, what do you do then?
I mean that's what I really want to talk about
with those that are watching us. What do you do
with this thing that you feel like as a vision
from God?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, first of all, I think if it's a God vision,
you understand that he's the source and he'll provide the resources.
I had a person one time who shared with me,
this is several years ago. They said, I think God
called me to be an evangelist, but nobody's booking me.
I said, you may be called yourself, you know, what
I mean. I think if it's a god vision, he's
(04:46):
going to provide the way, and he's going to help
us to accomplish what he's laid on our heart. You know,
one of the things that I teach I think that
will be very helpful to all of us, is that
there's really only one thing that all all great leaders
have in common, I mean, regardless of country culture, as
I've studied leadership and taught leadership around the world, and
(05:08):
that is that the great leaders they see more than
others see, and they see before.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
Others see good.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So they see a bigger picture and they see it
a little bit more quickly. And so I think that's
the I think that's what sets.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
The great leaders apart from others.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And what's beautiful is that if we understand that there
are things that we can do to see more, and
there's things that we can do to see before. But
I think that's what sets the vision. Is really what
sets the leader apart from everybody else.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I think so John now, John Maxwell leadership one O
one says leadership is influenced.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Okay, nothing more.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I got that down, you got it.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
But but I'll let you just go ahead talk just.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Sad to say. One of my favorite definitions of leadership
is not that it's yours one lot of favorites, but
break my heart. No. One of my favorite definitions of
leadership was about Warren Vennis who said leadership is the
capacity to translate a vision into reactionality.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
It's a great I love that.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
And because you're influencing people the whole time, you're doing.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That, Yes, and I can I talk about that because
that's one of my favorite definitions. As soon as you said,
Warren Bennis, I knew exactly what you're going to say,
and I think it is a great definition of success.
I would like to really get practical here for a bit.
Good that's what we want, because you know as well
as I do. If I see the vision, but I
have the don't have the capacity to help other people
(06:33):
see it, that this vision is not going to do well.
I think great leaders take their vision from me to
Wei and I tell people if there's not if there's
not a we in the vision, uh, it's just to me,
it's going to be probably too small. So let let's
let's talk about that for a moment. When I think
of communicating a vision, when I look at my team,
(06:56):
the people I'm leading, my audience. When I'm speaking, there
are four questions I ask myself, and these four questions
really help bring not only clarity to the vision, but
it really makes the I think these four questions make
the vision contagious. So I'm going to give them an order.
(07:18):
When when I look at my team, or if I
like today, I've just had the privileges speaking here or
Robertson University with so many of the business people in
the community, when I when I look at the people
in front of me, the first question I ask myself
is what do I want the people to see? And
what I want the people to see is possibility. So
(07:38):
that's who I am. I'm kind of like a possibility
teacher communicator when when when I'm teaching them, I want
them to see possibilities that they've never perhaps even dared
to reach for. I'm a I'm a lidlifter, and so
when I teach and when I lead, I'm very intentional.
(07:59):
I want them to see their possibilities. Now, what do
I want them to know?
Speaker 5 (08:02):
That's the second question. Well, I want them to know
that I value them.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Because I've discovered that until people know that you really
value them, There's not much you can do to add
value to them. So it really is caring for people,
loving for people, being Jesus like obviously. So I want
them to know that I value them. Now I go
and what do I want them to feel?
Speaker 5 (08:26):
It's good.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I want them to feel empowered. I want them to
feel that when I'm finished, that they can accomplish the
challenge I've given them.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I want them to realize that.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
They can do this, and they have a kind of
a spirit of I'm going to go do this, and
I think, you know, I don't want the people to
look at me and say He's amazing. I don't want
them look at themselves and say I'm amazing and God's amazing.
Look what we can do. So I want them to
see their possibilities. I want them to know that they're valued.
I want them to feel empowered. And then what do
I want them to do? I want them to apply
(09:00):
what I've taught and multiply Because my audience is leadership.
What I do is I try to add value to
leaders who multiply value to others. So I want them
to apply this to their life. But then I want
them to multiply it to others. Now, the reason I
say that, of course, you know that you're a terrific
leader and a visionary yourself. But the reason I say
that to the people that would be watching us today
(09:22):
is I think great vision begins with intentionality.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
I think that once I know what I.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Want them to see, no, feel, and do, if I
speak directly to those four things, they will see it
and know it, and feel it and do it. And
I think that's the response we're looking for. But I
don't think we get the response that we're looking for
until we know the response that we're looking for begin
(09:49):
with the end of mind. So I think a lot
of times people think of visions. I just cast this
incredible future of what we could be, and I'm looking.
I say, really, until you connect with where they are,
you can't take them to where you're going. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So it's simple, but it really works for me as
far as when I try to help people kind of
catch the big picture.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
I just asked those four questions.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
So, John, you've become obviously one of the leadership experts
in all the world, maybe the leadership expert. Your books
have been prolific me. The people have read them. I
have have so many other leaders around the world. What
was a driving vision that pushed you to move into
leadership development at such a high level.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I love the question because there was a driving vision.
I can remember well, when I was twenty four, I
started off as a pastor. Okay, and so I have
my little first church like everybody did.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Well, you had a pretty big church in San Diego too.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, well it got big.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But again, if you understand leadership, that's what I think,
that's part of what happened. Sure, but I remember when
I was twenty four. I can still remember after six
months to a year of just really thinking about this thought,
one day I just said, no, this is I buy
into this. I remember the day I con said to myself,
everything rises and falls on leadership, everything, not most things, everything,
(11:11):
And it's true. I think in government, I think it's true.
In education, I think it's true. In business, I think
it's true. In the church world, everything rises and falls
on leadership, you know, doctor Wilson. When I came to
that conclusion, I asked myself, what could I do better
than give my life to helping people learn to lead?
But if I can help them or learn to lead,
they're going to do well in their life. So that
(11:32):
was kind of my passion. What's interesting is that I
was twenty four. I'm seventy eight now, So fifty four
years later, Well, here's what I know. What I thought
was true at twenty four.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
I know is true at seventy eight.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And it's kind of wonderful to, you know, put fifty
years of your life plus into something that as a
young person you felt to be true and you discovered
it is true and then say, I really kind of
stayed in the leadership lane all my life because everything
still rises and falls.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
On leadership exactly. Right.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Yeah, that's a great insight, and I think it's propelled
you to a lifetime of equipping people a little over
the world, the largest equipping leadership equipping agency in the world.
You're seventy eight years old now, John, Yeah, I am. Yeah.
What's your compelling vision today?
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Well? I have one?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, in fact, let me if I can just just
put in context the moment.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I have fourteen books you had to write that I
know of.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I mean, I've got I've got a Yeah, I have
a like you're killing no it's because I haven't.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Gotten that writing, but I've got that.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They're kind of like in the Birthing book line, you know,
you know, write me and one of the books I
would love to write.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I would like to.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's in the form of a question, that is, is
there a finish line? Yeah, And I think for the
vast majority of people there is. I mean, I think
it's itself and post I think. But I think somebodple
say when I get a certain age, I'm going to
retire or make so much money or whatever, and I
have no finish line. I like that if you have
(13:12):
a finish line, if I say, at this age, I'm
going to you know, stop or whatever. What I have
to understand is when I cross that line, I'm finished.
And is there anything more sad than a person that
still has life? But somehow they kind of gave up
and said, well, I'm kind of done. And I look
at them and say, no, you're not done. You know,
(13:33):
if you're still alive, God still has plans for your life.
So I think when you ask the question, which is
such a great question, I don't think I'll ever cross
my finish line. I think I will strive to get there,
but I don't even think I want to cross it.
I want to keep pressing toward that mark. But for
me in two thousand, if you'll remember, if all I
(13:59):
have to really say to you, you with somebody our age,
is the word Enron, and you immediately think of businesses
that said one thing but totally didn't back it up
with their actions, you know, in other words, what they
put on the walls of their offices they didn't have
in their walk.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
And I just got to get off the wall. It's
got to get it. It's got to be in the walk.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And time Warner asked me to write a book on
business ethics and I said, well, I can't do that
and they said, well, I said, because there's no such
thing as business ethics.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
And they said, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Then they're talking about Enron, Tyco and all these companies
and said, look, what do you mean there's no and
I said, there's just ethics.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
There's really just ethics.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And now if you have them, they work in business,
so hey, oh happy day. But I mean you have
to have them. And that was that. As I look back,
that was very pivotal for me because up into that
time I was teaching leadership skills, but I really wasn't
yet talking too much about leadership values, and all of
(14:57):
a sudden I realized that leaderships is about training, but
leadership values is about transformation, and the heart's got to
be right. We have to be better on the inside
than we're on the outside. And so that kind of
put me on a track of saying, we've trained a
lot of leaders, but are there going to be transformation
in their leadership? So it's about twelve thirteen years ago
(15:21):
we said, let's go into countries and see if we
can have small groups around tables, just like a table
like we're sitting at right now, and teach values. And
you know, Malcolm Godwell talks about the tipping point. So
we said, what would happen if we could get over
ten percent of the population of a country sitting around
tables and really learning, discussing good values. What would happen?
(15:45):
So we started with Guatemala. Somebody said, well, you know,
white start with Guatemala. It's because I live in Florida.
It was easy to get to Vautamala. I'm not going
to start in Australia too. You know, you've got to
give it a lot of time and attention, and I
think we're we've been there for thirteen years.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
I think they have about twenty million people. I think
we have.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I think we are in roundtable, small groups. I think
we've put two point eight million through it already. And
I was there about a year ago with the President
of Guatemala and.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
And we were on national TV.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It was talking to the country and he was saying
that the values that we're learning are helping change us.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
And when people learn.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Good values and live good values, they just become more
valuable to themselves and others.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
And so my.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Vision today, you know, if you say what's your what
do you what do you really want to accomplish that
I would like to see a nation transform.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You know, John Wesley is a great model I think.
I think personally in the Christian world, after the Apostle Paul,
I think John Wesley was probably the greatest leader. And
you know, even secular historians give him credit for transforming England.
And as you know, he mentored Wilberforce, and through wilber
(17:00):
Force they literally got slavery abolished and which lake Er,
which Wes, they called the cancer of the country.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
So I have a I have.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
A dream, a vision of of seeing it happen in
my in my lifetime, where I can look and say.
And somebody said, well, how do you know that the
country's transformed? I said, you'll know the country's transformed when
the secular community says it, not when the Christianity says it.
And and when that president of Gualamala said that the
(17:33):
country was changing because of the of the values, I thought, Okay,
this is a little glimpse of what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
So good I hope.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I hope to see it.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
No fantastic, no finish line, transforming countries, totally equipping leaders,
still got fourteen books to write.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, I talked to God.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
I talked to God about it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I talked to God about the other day.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
I said, you know, you really need let me live
a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
You know, I can't do I can't crag fourteen books
out that quickly. And you know, but I honestly think
that really a person of vision.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Dies with the vision still inside of them.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I don't. I don't think like there's a time when
I say the vision is now complete. I you know,
I think it's bigger than this, and I think we
need to have something beyond us. I had a mentor Wow,
this was so important when I was in my twenties,
who said, John, I want you to attempt something so
(18:34):
big for God that if it happens, people who know
you will say you're not that good.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
And they would give God all the credit.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And that's and I thought, isn't that beautiful? I know
your maxwell, you're not that good, but look what's happened,
and only God can get the credit.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
I think that's a good way to live.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Don't you One less question? And you know the Bible
says young men will see vision us guys, but young
men will see vision. I want you to look right
into the camera and talk to a young person, yeah,
who feels like God is birthing something in them. It's
(19:14):
bigger than they are. What are they supposed to do?
What should they do with this that God is working in?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Such a great question, my friend, Let's just talk to
you for a moment. When God gives you a vision,
if it's like me, you'll look at it and you'll say, Wow,
that's that's bigger than me. And that's the position you
want to be in. You want to always see what
you're trying to accomplish and understand without him.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
We can do nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Now, when I was a young leader and I started
off on my vision, I was working hard and I
was a pastor and the church was really growing. And
when I went through a period of a few months
where I was talking to God about, you know, the
words for a lord.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Without me, you can do nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And I was pointing and I said, well, you know,
I've done this and I've done that. I wasn't in
an argument kind of mood. I was just I was
trying to figure it out, and I've done this. And
after a few months, God said, yeah, you've done these things.
But when I say without me you can do nothing,
what I'm really saying to you is without me, you
(20:23):
can do nothing that has eternal consequences. And that was
the day that I realized that for me to be
the catalyst for the vision God gave me, I have
to understand that He is the total source that I've
got to get do my best and use my gifts
for his glory, but He's the source. And because of that,
(20:47):
I think of what Paul said and when he was
talking to the church at Philippi and he was talking
about my God could do all things you know, greater
than what you can, more than you could ever imagine,
more than you could ever think, more than you could
ever dream, way beyond your wildest dreams. But then he
says something very important that God is going to do
(21:08):
the work within you according to you's this is the
day that I realize, isn't it amazing? All these great
things can happen, But He is going to do it
in me, for me and through me, so.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
That it begins to change other life.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That is not only humbling, it is incredibly to me
motivating the fact that God can do with that kind
of work in your life. And so for you that
are young, I want you to know that the dreams
and the visions that God gives you, he wants to bring.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Them to pass. If he laid it on your heart,
he wants to make it a reality, and He's.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Going to do work within you. And I think the
key is being humbled and just saying, God, make you
do the work within me. I'm comfortable with giving you
all the credit. I'm comfortable to be sure to point
to you as the source. But just you do the
work within me, and I'll serve I'll do my very best.
(22:05):
When I realized that he thought bigger dreams than I
had for myself, and when I realized that he was
going to use me to accomplish that, doing the work
within me, it was very motivating to me. And that's
very true for you too. So the work that he's
begne he wants to complete, and I just want to
encourage you. Allow him to do that work within him,
(22:29):
and just be obedient. Be obedient. You know, at seventy eight,
I can look back and I can connect, and you
can probably also, though you're not near as old as
I am. I can look back and I can connect
the dots looking backward, but going forward, you can't connect
the dots. You just live in obedience. Obedience is only
understood on the back end, not the front end. So
just be obedient, be a servant, add value to people,
(22:53):
stay in the game, let him do his work within you.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
And then give him all the glory and give him
all the price. Amen.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Thank you well, thank you for joining us today. It's
been a delight to have Leadership Expert Guru Apostle of
Leadership in the World, John Mixwell with us on this
leadership broadcast. I know your life has been touched and blessed.
We want you to live with bold vision, yes, and
we want you to see the dreams and visions God
(23:19):
puts in your heart come to pass for his glory.
So thank you again for joining us today. And John,
thank you for being at Oh are you You're always
welcome here, friend, and we're cheering you on you those
fourteen books, give me some of them. I want to
read them when you get them done, and no finish
line as you push on through for God. We're cheering
(23:40):
you on God. Bless you. Thanks for being here to
my joy.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Thanks for having me great.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Thank you for joining us for the geb America podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Be sure to follow us or subscribe on the podcast
platform you prefer. Also, take a moment and share this
great content with your friends and family.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
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