Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Creation versus evolution, the never ending debate. Right, so many
want us to believe that science and faith are incompatible.
Well what if they're not? What if science actually supports faith?
And what if faith actually inform science? Today we're going
to take a fascinating look at some of the latest findings.
(00:31):
Stay with me.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thanks for listening to this edition of Living on the
Edge with Ship Ingram. We are an international teaching and
discipleship ministry that motivates Christians to live like Christians. Well,
in just a minute, we'll hear the second half of
Chip's message, why I believe in creation? And if you
want to go back and listen to part one, or
catch up on our entire Dealing Without series, visit Livingombeedge
(00:59):
dot org or check out to Chip in grammatic as well.
As we get started, Chip continues unpacking the complex question
why did life begin and explains how that answer forms
our thoughts about morality and eternity. Let's dive.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Then, you are the absolute most beautiful creation of all
that He's made of, all the billions of stars. You,
in fact, as a human being, you can choose, you
can feel, you can act, you can think. You're actually
made in the image of God. You have self awareness.
(01:33):
The writer of Ecclesiastes would say, He has made everything
beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in
the human heart. Yet no one can fathom what God
has done from beginning to end.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It was C. S.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Lewis who talked about this aught or should that every
human being has in your heart.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It's the sense that this.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Is right and this is wrong that makes us different
than all the other animals. In fact, his book Mere
Christianity is what Francis Collins was reading. He was making
his rounds and he had all this intellect. He had
a PhD. Over here, he's now a medical doctor. He's
making his rounds. And as he was making all of
his rounds, he met people that were dying. And he
(02:17):
kept meeting people of faith that had this peace and
this certainty and the way they responded. And he said,
there was one particular patient who was dying and he
kept pressing me, what do you believe? What do you believe?
He said, basically, I had rejected religion and I thought
it was people just asking God and it was a crutch,
but I just couldn't get away from this man's life
(02:38):
and he gave me a copy of Mere Christianity. As
I read Mere Christianity, despite all of his intellect, he said,
it made sense. I realized there was something more than
just random chance. And then he talks about the power
of creation, and he says, I remember one morning wrestling
with all of this, and I was out in the
meadow and it was breathtakingly bure utiful. Right. This is
(03:01):
Romans Chapter one. The creation screams of the character of God.
His invisible attributes are screaming about his power, his eternality,
his love, his purpose. And Francis Colin says, I knelt
down in the grass in that dew, and I received
Jesus as my savior. He would go on after that
(03:24):
to discover the gene that caused sistrict fibrosis, and then
become a leading scientist, and then of course write that
classic book, The Language of God. What I want you
to see is that this is so much more than
just facts and figures. It's about what do you believe?
What is your faith proposition? Why do you believe what
(03:47):
you believe? Or have you unconsciously, as many of us have,
I think in Christian circles basically had a sort of
a compartment over here of science and compartment of religion,
and pretended that they don't connect. The fact of the
matter is your morals, your values, your purpose, what you
(04:07):
teach your kids, how you live your life is fundamentally
goes back to do you believe in a creator that
has a purpose where there's meaning or do you believe
that you're a product of random chance? And those two
worldviews and the multiple world views that flow out of each,
I mean, they're at war. They're at war in the world.
(04:28):
Question number three is how did the various plants and
animals develop? According to classic evolution, one simple cell slowly
evolved into more complex plants and animals through a process
of time, chance, natural selection, mutation, and survival of the fittest.
That was what Darwin would write an origin of the species.
And he believed in spontaneous generation. What I mean by
(04:51):
that is, at that time Darwin believed that just life
could happen a chemical soup. Well, a year later, eighteen sixty,
Louis p. Has Or proved that spontaneous regeneration was absolutely impossible.
The scripture, by contrast, says where did they come from?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
For?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Since the creation of the world. God's invisible qualities, his
eternal powers, divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood
from that which he made, so that people are without excuse.
God made plants and animals, and species and stars, and
he made them all to reflect his glory and his character.
(05:29):
Long before there were these amazing telescopes, and before we
put that hubble out there and we could see into galaxies.
The scripture declares, the heavens declared the glory of God.
The skies proclaimed the work of his hands. Day after day,
they pour forth speech, night after night. They reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words, No sound
(05:52):
has heard from them. Yet their voice goes out into
all the earth, their words to the ends of the earth.
You have to ask yourself, what is the best explanation
for all the things.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
That we see? You know?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
One of the things I like to do. Actually, I
do it nearly every morning. I'm actually very disappointed when
they're not there. I guess they're really there. I get
up early, I get a cup of coffee, I feed
the dog, that's my assignment from my wife, and then
I walk outside and every morning I look up at
the stars and there's just something about remembering how small
(06:29):
and how finite we are and.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
How big God is.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And you know, I've done enough research that I know
that I'm just with my eye looking at a tiny
part of the Milky Way, and the Milky Way has
somewhere between one hundred to two hundred billion stars. And
what I know is outside the Milky Way there's another
one hundred to two hundred billion galaxies. And what God's
(06:52):
word says, He says that I spoke that, and I
hold it by the word of my power, and that
God also says ye.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And to every human being, I've placed my affection on
you. You matter, I love you, I'm for you. And when
I look up at those stars, that passage from Psalm
nineteen comes to mind.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You know what I think. I think that's a big
God and he can handle all my problems. That's a
big God that is sovereign over all the issues that
we're facing politically and racially and things that are happening
around the world. That's a God that I can put
my trust in. And as I've claimed his promises a
faith statement, I've watched him deliver and you have two
(07:37):
But what I want to ask you is are you
communicating that kind of faith and what those stars mean
to your kids?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Is that making it into.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
The worldview of education, of how you're teaching your kids
or your grandkids or your nephews. See, this message is
not so much about are we going to understand everything
about evolution and creation? It's much more about what are
you going to do with the fact that if you
do believe that God created you, what are the implications
(08:08):
for your life, for your worldview, for how you live,
for where your kids are educated, for what.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
You teach them.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I hope you're getting that when you compare and contrast
to these basic questions, it's pretty amazing. Now I want
to jump into those aspects that are a bit technical
and very enlightening. When Darwin looked into a microscope, because
he only had one that would multiply what he saw
by maybe two or three hundred x. Today we have
(08:38):
microscopes that multiply them, electron microscopes way way more so.
When he looked into this center of a cell, he
saw just a membrane, and he thought it was very simple. Fact,
that's what he called it, And there wasn't much in there,
and his whole philosophy was that, you know, it's very
simple and it goes to complex and what has been
(08:58):
the core behind especially non Christian sciences challenging Darwin is
they now can look inside that cell. It's anything but simple.
We now have microscopes that are super complex. Some cells,
are you ready, are so small that you can fit
one hundred and fifty thousand cells just on the tip
(09:21):
of a strand of hair. I mean, it's unbelievable. Molecular
scientists describe a single cell, are you ready, as a
high tech factory. They're complex with artificial languages and decoding systems.
They have a central memory bank that store and retrieve
impressive amounts of information. They have a precise control systems
(09:41):
that regulate automatically in assembling and components and parts. I mean,
what's happening inside of a cell is what led the
Micobehes of the world and the Michael Dentons of the
world to say this simply can't happen by random chance.
Cells also have a system that replicate. You understand, it's
not just the size of the cell and the complexity
(10:02):
of the cell, it's the actual DNA in the cell.
If I had a spoon up here, I could take
a spoon, and if I could fill just a tablespoon
with DNA, there's enough information there for all the information
and all the species, for all the planet that has
(10:23):
ever lived with room leftover.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
This is living on the edge with the Chip Ingram Man.
Chip will be right back to finish today's message, but first,
throughout this series, we are identifying the notable issues that
can rattle our faith and cause doubt to seep in.
So let me quickly encourage you to join CHIP. After
this message, he'll highlight two valuable resources we've bundled to
help you process doubt and uncertainty. When they come, keep
(10:50):
listening for more details, but for now here again it's Chip.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
If I could take when you were a little dot
in your mother's womb, one single cell, If we could
take that cell, pull your DNA and uncoil it, it
would be six feet long. In fact, expert in DNA,
world class doctor Robert Shapiro was asked what he thought
the chances were that DNA could have been formed by
(11:15):
a random process. His answer, none, It's absolute nonsense. The
genius and the complexity of a single cell in DNA
challenge the very core and the presuppositions of classic evolutionary thought.
In fact, so much so. We heard earlier about Remember
(11:36):
Anthony Flew, he was the most famous atheist at eighty
four years old. Near the time of his death, he
did something that you almost never hear. He renounced his atheism.
Now to be fair, because I think sometimes we Christians
want to read into things and make it sound a
little bit better to support our position. He did not
become a Christian. But what he said was, after fifty
(12:00):
years of looking at the science, especially DNA, he could
not believe any longer that life occurred without an intelligent designer.
Now he didn't come to believe that Jesus was that
intelligent designer. But think of what the facts are doing
even among agnostics and atheists. Now, let's turn our attention
(12:21):
from what's amazingly small to what's amazingly big. Albert Einstein
published his equation on general relativity in nineteen fifteen, and
a Dutch astronomer, Wilhelm Dessitter, discovered a solution that predicted
an expanding universe. The importance of these discoveries showed that
(12:41):
the world and the universe was expanding.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Here's the deal.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
If galaxies were moving farther and farther. In part, the
implication was they were once closer together. From this realization,
Hubble went one step farther, and he laid the foundation
for the Big Bang theory, providing evidence that the universe
exploded into existence with a furious burst of energy and
has been expanding ever since. It was a shattering blow
(13:08):
to centuries old notion of a static universe. The theory
of an expanding universe was consistent with Einstein's theory, but
it wasn't accepted early by scientists, and they were very
honest about it. They just said, we understand if we
actually believe there was a beginning, we could be in
trouble in terms of our faith assumptions about random chance
(13:32):
and there is no God. Robert Jastro, an American astronomer
and a planetary physicist, argued that the reason that scientists
were slow to accept the Big Bang because if it
was true, it would imply a moment of creation. In
an interview with Christianity Today, this scientist said, astronomers now
(13:54):
find themselves painted into a corner because they've proven by
their own methods that the the world began abruptly in
an act of creation to which they can trace the
seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in
the cosmos and on Earth. And they have found that
this all happened as a product of forces. They can't
hope to discover that there are what I and anyone
(14:18):
would have to say is a supernatural force at work,
and I think a scientifically proven fact. And then in
his book God in the Astronomer, Jastro says, for the
scientist who has lived by his faith in the power
of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He
has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to
(14:38):
conquer the highest peak, and as he pulls himself over
the final rock, he is greeted by a band of
theologians who being sitting there for centuries. To be fair,
the Big Bang does not disprove classic evolution, but it
strongly argues for a specific moment in time. What I
(15:00):
want you to know is that we could go on
and on with more and more scientific discoveries. We could
look at Darwinian evolution and ask ourselves some basic questions,
like what were the social implications I alluded to Nazi Germany.
Huxley would say that actually I'm so thankful for Darwin, because,
whether I believe it or not, it gave me moral
(15:22):
license to live any way I want, apart from God.
Another great scientist said, Darwinian evolution is the engine of atheism.
Here's what you need to understand your worldview really matters.
You have two great options, with a few that are
developing on either side. But your options are this. Do
(15:44):
you believe that life is a result of a single cell,
random chance, no plan, that you, in fact and all
the world is the product of billions of years of
chemical reactions and all the logical implications. Do you believe
that there's a personal God that made you and made
everyone that, every single person, those that you disagree with,
(16:06):
those that are different, those who believe different, they're made
in the image of God. God created them, and he
loves them, and he calls you, and he calls me
to treat them with dignity. That there's no room for prejudice,
there's no room for all the kind of things that
mankind has done for one another, because the infinite personal
God has made all of us, and He's created us
(16:28):
for himself. And here's my question, do you honestly believe
with your life, not just in your head, that God
created all that there is? And are you teaching your
children and your grandchildren the worldview that by faith flows
out of that. Are you willing to spend some time
and say, you know, science is great, there's no dichotomy
(16:50):
God created at all. Would you introduce them to some
great Christian scientists. Would you be willing to have a
dialogue and talk about evolution? Not like you're afraid or intimidated.
What I can tell you is brilliant people Christian and
non Christian are not buying evolution. So you're not a minority,
and you're not anti intellectual. What I want you to
(17:11):
know is that I have confidence and I believe that
God has spoken, and I believe when I look at
all the questions that my intellect is intact. I've not
thrown my brains in the trash. If you want to
get more specific information and dig in a little bit deeper,
I have all this in my book. Why I believe Father,
I pray now that we would grasp the implications of
(17:33):
what it means that you made us, that you are
the creator, That there is purpose and meaning, that there
is life eternal, that every single person matters that the
sunsets that we see that when we hold a new
baby in our arms, when we look into the eyes
of some someone that we love, that it's not some
(17:54):
chemical reaction. It is the reality of being made in
the image of God and having the capacity to love
and to be loved. Lord, I pray that for my
brothers and sisters. I prayed it would be bold and
we would enter the public square winsomely, kindly, and completely
not afraid in Jesus' name.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Amen, you're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram,
and the message you just heard why I Believe in
Creation is from our series Dealing with Doubts. Chip will
join us in studio to share some insights from today's
talking just a minute. Did you know there's a lot
of solid, verifiable evidence that supports the truth of Scripture
(18:38):
and the existence of Jesus. The real challenge lies in
communicating that proof and the hope of the Gospel to
those sincerely seeking answers. So how do we do that well?
In this series, Chip and guest teacher John Dickerson share
ways to effectively and winsomely address honest questions about our
faith that will attract people to the Bible, not repel
(18:59):
them from it. Also, we want you to have all
the necessary tools for those conversations. So whenever you hear
a book, podcast, or article mentioned in this series, visit
Livingontheedge dot org and check out our resources page. We
want to point to you to relevant biblically grounded experts
who will equip you to engage with the doubters and
skeptics in your life. Find that resources page at Living
(19:23):
on the Edge dot org or through the Chippingram map. Well,
Chip's joined me in studio now, and Chip, I don't
know if I've ever asked you this before, but take
a minute or so and talk about your heart for writing,
specifically your book. Why I believe now? Why develop resources
like this?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, Dave, I think it's the impact books had on me.
I would say. Before I became a Christian, unless it
was required reading for high school or college, I didn't
read books. You know. I played a lot of basketball,
and then early in my Christian life I got exposed
to some books that really, I mean, they help me.
They'd so challenge me, and I had lots of questions
(20:01):
and I didn't grow up as a follower of Christ.
And I mean I've always been a skeptic, and so
it was all those different books that at a certain
time in life, I thought I would love to be
able to maybe put something in writing, but I want
to share it in a way that I've done the research,
but is for just us, regular people that maybe don't
have a PhD in this or that. And this book
(20:25):
Why I Believe was my journey of searching out the
truth for myself. And part of what I wanted to
do was do all that research, and if a PhD
read it, he would say, Wow, yeah, I see all
your references here, I see where you got that. Yes,
those are the big issues. But then I would want
a high school student or a young adult or even
a junior hire to read through this book Why I
(20:47):
Believe and say to themselves, oh, this makes sense. Yeah, wow,
I've never thought about it that way, Or I didn't
know that, you mean Jesus actually said that, or people
outside of Christianity in the first century wrote these things
about Jesus. You mean he was a real person, etc. Etc.
If we can't answer the hard questions, we're going to
see the whole next generation literally be washed away. Right
(21:11):
before our eyes. You got to sit down with your
family and get the answers first for yourself and then
pass them on and not only.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
To your kids.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
But I would say it's super important right now. We
think people are closed. People are desperate in the world
that we're living in. They want answers. I mean, my
granddaughter invited five kids at school from all ethnic backgrounds.
None were Christians, and many you would think would never
be open to hear about Jesus. She read my book
Why I Believe, and she got a little study and said, hey,
(21:44):
would you all like to do this? They all said, yes,
people are more open than you think, but they need
to hear good, solid answers shared in humility.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That's right, ship. So let me encourage you to check
out two insightful tools we've buddled together just for this series.
The first is Chip's book Why I Believe, and the
second is a book called Jesus Skeptic by our good
friend John Dickerson. As you read these resources, we hope
you'll realize the evidence for Jesus' existence, the accuracy of
(22:13):
the Bible, and how Christianity has positively shaped our world.
Learn more about this bundle by calling triple eight three
three three six zero zero three, or by visiting Living
on the Edge dot org. App listeners tap special offers
with that chip. Let's get to that application we promised.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Thanks Dave. You know, as we wrap this up, here's
what we have to remember. No one was there at
the beginning of creation. So Christianity and evolution are both
faith based ideologies. I mean, it takes faith to believe
that like something came out of nothing. It takes faith
to believe that a personal creator, God spoke and the
(22:56):
world came into existence. The question then is where's the evidence?
What do you base things on? And there's certain presuppositions
with the evolutionary mindset that takes all the facts and
says this is what's true. And there's certain presuppositions from
scripture that if God created things and you look at
the evidence, this is very clearly true. What we need
(23:16):
to make sure is that we never budge from what
the Bible says, but we do it in a way
that's kind and loving and listening, and we care about
the person. So often the evolutionary theory is a smoke
screen for a lot of personal hurts, for a lot
of damage, for some bad experiences with other Christians. Let's
(23:38):
make sure they have a good experience with us, that
we really listen, we do our homework, and then in
a calm, kind loving way, we share this is what
I believe and why, and by the way, we can
agree to disagree, and I want to care for you
as a person whether we end up agreeing or not.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's a powerful reminder, Chip, especially in the divisive culture
we live in. Good word. As we wrap up, I
want to thank those of you who make this program
possible through your generous financial support. Your gifts help us
create programs, purchase airtime, and develop additional resources to help
Christians live like Christians. If you've been blessed by the
(24:18):
ministry of Living on the Edge, would you consider sending
a gift today? You can do that by visiting Livingontheedge
dot org or by calling Triple eight three three three
six zero zero three. That's Triple eight three three three
six zero zero three, or visit Living on the Edge
dot org. App Listeners tap donate. We want you to
(24:40):
know how much we appreciate your support. Well, thanks for
listening to this edition of Living on the Edge with
Chip Ingram. I'm Dave Drury and I hope you'll join
us again next time.
Creation versus evolution, the never ending debate. Right, so many
want us to believe that science and faith are incompatible.
Well what if they're not? What if science actually supports faith?
And what if faith actually inform science? Today we're going
to take a fascinating look at some of the latest findings.
(00:31):
Stay with me.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thanks for listening to this edition of Living on the
Edge with Ship Ingram. We are an international teaching and
discipleship ministry that motivates Christians to live like Christians. Well,
in just a minute, we'll hear the second half of
Chip's message, why I believe in creation? And if you
want to go back and listen to part one, or
catch up on our entire Dealing Without series, visit Livingombeedge
(00:59):
dot org or check out to Chip in grammatic as well.
As we get started, Chip continues unpacking the complex question
why did life begin and explains how that answer forms
our thoughts about morality and eternity. Let's dive.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Then, you are the absolute most beautiful creation of all
that He's made of, all the billions of stars. You,
in fact, as a human being, you can choose, you
can feel, you can act, you can think. You're actually
made in the image of God. You have self awareness.
(01:33):
The writer of Ecclesiastes would say, He has made everything
beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in
the human heart. Yet no one can fathom what God
has done from beginning to end.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It was C. S.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Lewis who talked about this aught or should that every
human being has in your heart.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It's the sense that this.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Is right and this is wrong that makes us different
than all the other animals. In fact, his book Mere
Christianity is what Francis Collins was reading. He was making
his rounds and he had all this intellect. He had
a PhD. Over here, he's now a medical doctor. He's
making his rounds. And as he was making all of
his rounds, he met people that were dying. And he
(02:17):
kept meeting people of faith that had this peace and
this certainty and the way they responded. And he said,
there was one particular patient who was dying and he
kept pressing me, what do you believe? What do you believe?
He said, basically, I had rejected religion and I thought
it was people just asking God and it was a crutch,
but I just couldn't get away from this man's life
(02:38):
and he gave me a copy of Mere Christianity. As
I read Mere Christianity, despite all of his intellect, he said,
it made sense. I realized there was something more than
just random chance. And then he talks about the power
of creation, and he says, I remember one morning wrestling
with all of this, and I was out in the
meadow and it was breathtakingly bure utiful. Right. This is
(03:01):
Romans Chapter one. The creation screams of the character of God.
His invisible attributes are screaming about his power, his eternality,
his love, his purpose. And Francis Colin says, I knelt
down in the grass in that dew, and I received
Jesus as my savior. He would go on after that
(03:24):
to discover the gene that caused sistrict fibrosis, and then
become a leading scientist, and then of course write that
classic book, The Language of God. What I want you
to see is that this is so much more than
just facts and figures. It's about what do you believe?
What is your faith proposition? Why do you believe what
(03:47):
you believe? Or have you unconsciously, as many of us have,
I think in Christian circles basically had a sort of
a compartment over here of science and compartment of religion,
and pretended that they don't connect. The fact of the
matter is your morals, your values, your purpose, what you
(04:07):
teach your kids, how you live your life is fundamentally
goes back to do you believe in a creator that
has a purpose where there's meaning or do you believe
that you're a product of random chance? And those two
worldviews and the multiple world views that flow out of each,
I mean, they're at war. They're at war in the world.
(04:28):
Question number three is how did the various plants and
animals develop? According to classic evolution, one simple cell slowly
evolved into more complex plants and animals through a process
of time, chance, natural selection, mutation, and survival of the fittest.
That was what Darwin would write an origin of the species.
And he believed in spontaneous generation. What I mean by
(04:51):
that is, at that time Darwin believed that just life
could happen a chemical soup. Well, a year later, eighteen sixty,
Louis p. Has Or proved that spontaneous regeneration was absolutely impossible.
The scripture, by contrast, says where did they come from?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
For?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Since the creation of the world. God's invisible qualities, his
eternal powers, divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood
from that which he made, so that people are without excuse.
God made plants and animals, and species and stars, and
he made them all to reflect his glory and his character.
(05:29):
Long before there were these amazing telescopes, and before we
put that hubble out there and we could see into galaxies.
The scripture declares, the heavens declared the glory of God.
The skies proclaimed the work of his hands. Day after day,
they pour forth speech, night after night. They reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words, No sound
(05:52):
has heard from them. Yet their voice goes out into
all the earth, their words to the ends of the earth.
You have to ask yourself, what is the best explanation
for all the things.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
That we see? You know?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
One of the things I like to do. Actually, I
do it nearly every morning. I'm actually very disappointed when
they're not there. I guess they're really there. I get
up early, I get a cup of coffee, I feed
the dog, that's my assignment from my wife, and then
I walk outside and every morning I look up at
the stars and there's just something about remembering how small
(06:29):
and how finite we are and.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
How big God is.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And you know, I've done enough research that I know
that I'm just with my eye looking at a tiny
part of the Milky Way, and the Milky Way has
somewhere between one hundred to two hundred billion stars. And
what I know is outside the Milky Way there's another
one hundred to two hundred billion galaxies. And what God's
(06:52):
word says, He says that I spoke that, and I
hold it by the word of my power, and that
God also says ye.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And to every human being, I've placed my affection on
you. You matter, I love you, I'm for you. And when
I look up at those stars, that passage from Psalm
nineteen comes to mind.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You know what I think. I think that's a big
God and he can handle all my problems. That's a
big God that is sovereign over all the issues that
we're facing politically and racially and things that are happening
around the world. That's a God that I can put
my trust in. And as I've claimed his promises a
faith statement, I've watched him deliver and you have two
(07:37):
But what I want to ask you is are you
communicating that kind of faith and what those stars mean
to your kids?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Is that making it into.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
The worldview of education, of how you're teaching your kids
or your grandkids or your nephews. See, this message is
not so much about are we going to understand everything
about evolution and creation? It's much more about what are
you going to do with the fact that if you
do believe that God created you, what are the implications
(08:08):
for your life, for your worldview, for how you live,
for where your kids are educated, for what.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
You teach them.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I hope you're getting that when you compare and contrast
to these basic questions, it's pretty amazing. Now I want
to jump into those aspects that are a bit technical
and very enlightening. When Darwin looked into a microscope, because
he only had one that would multiply what he saw
by maybe two or three hundred x. Today we have
(08:38):
microscopes that multiply them, electron microscopes way way more so.
When he looked into this center of a cell, he
saw just a membrane, and he thought it was very simple. Fact,
that's what he called it, And there wasn't much in there,
and his whole philosophy was that, you know, it's very
simple and it goes to complex and what has been
(08:58):
the core behind especially non Christian sciences challenging Darwin is
they now can look inside that cell. It's anything but simple.
We now have microscopes that are super complex. Some cells,
are you ready, are so small that you can fit
one hundred and fifty thousand cells just on the tip
(09:21):
of a strand of hair. I mean, it's unbelievable. Molecular
scientists describe a single cell, are you ready, as a
high tech factory. They're complex with artificial languages and decoding systems.
They have a central memory bank that store and retrieve
impressive amounts of information. They have a precise control systems
(09:41):
that regulate automatically in assembling and components and parts. I mean,
what's happening inside of a cell is what led the
Micobehes of the world and the Michael Dentons of the
world to say this simply can't happen by random chance.
Cells also have a system that replicate. You understand, it's
not just the size of the cell and the complexity
(10:02):
of the cell, it's the actual DNA in the cell.
If I had a spoon up here, I could take
a spoon, and if I could fill just a tablespoon
with DNA, there's enough information there for all the information
and all the species, for all the planet that has
(10:23):
ever lived with room leftover.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
This is living on the edge with the Chip Ingram Man.
Chip will be right back to finish today's message, but first,
throughout this series, we are identifying the notable issues that
can rattle our faith and cause doubt to seep in.
So let me quickly encourage you to join CHIP. After
this message, he'll highlight two valuable resources we've bundled to
help you process doubt and uncertainty. When they come, keep
(10:50):
listening for more details, but for now here again it's Chip.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
If I could take when you were a little dot
in your mother's womb, one single cell, If we could
take that cell, pull your DNA and uncoil it, it
would be six feet long. In fact, expert in DNA,
world class doctor Robert Shapiro was asked what he thought
the chances were that DNA could have been formed by
(11:15):
a random process. His answer, none, It's absolute nonsense. The
genius and the complexity of a single cell in DNA
challenge the very core and the presuppositions of classic evolutionary thought.
In fact, so much so. We heard earlier about Remember
(11:36):
Anthony Flew, he was the most famous atheist at eighty
four years old. Near the time of his death, he
did something that you almost never hear. He renounced his atheism.
Now to be fair, because I think sometimes we Christians
want to read into things and make it sound a
little bit better to support our position. He did not
become a Christian. But what he said was, after fifty
(12:00):
years of looking at the science, especially DNA, he could
not believe any longer that life occurred without an intelligent designer.
Now he didn't come to believe that Jesus was that
intelligent designer. But think of what the facts are doing
even among agnostics and atheists. Now, let's turn our attention
(12:21):
from what's amazingly small to what's amazingly big. Albert Einstein
published his equation on general relativity in nineteen fifteen, and
a Dutch astronomer, Wilhelm Dessitter, discovered a solution that predicted
an expanding universe. The importance of these discoveries showed that
(12:41):
the world and the universe was expanding.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Here's the deal.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
If galaxies were moving farther and farther. In part, the
implication was they were once closer together. From this realization,
Hubble went one step farther, and he laid the foundation
for the Big Bang theory, providing evidence that the universe
exploded into existence with a furious burst of energy and
has been expanding ever since. It was a shattering blow
(13:08):
to centuries old notion of a static universe. The theory
of an expanding universe was consistent with Einstein's theory, but
it wasn't accepted early by scientists, and they were very
honest about it. They just said, we understand if we
actually believe there was a beginning, we could be in
trouble in terms of our faith assumptions about random chance
(13:32):
and there is no God. Robert Jastro, an American astronomer
and a planetary physicist, argued that the reason that scientists
were slow to accept the Big Bang because if it
was true, it would imply a moment of creation. In
an interview with Christianity Today, this scientist said, astronomers now
(13:54):
find themselves painted into a corner because they've proven by
their own methods that the the world began abruptly in
an act of creation to which they can trace the
seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in
the cosmos and on Earth. And they have found that
this all happened as a product of forces. They can't
hope to discover that there are what I and anyone
(14:18):
would have to say is a supernatural force at work,
and I think a scientifically proven fact. And then in
his book God in the Astronomer, Jastro says, for the
scientist who has lived by his faith in the power
of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He
has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to
(14:38):
conquer the highest peak, and as he pulls himself over
the final rock, he is greeted by a band of
theologians who being sitting there for centuries. To be fair,
the Big Bang does not disprove classic evolution, but it
strongly argues for a specific moment in time. What I
(15:00):
want you to know is that we could go on
and on with more and more scientific discoveries. We could
look at Darwinian evolution and ask ourselves some basic questions,
like what were the social implications I alluded to Nazi Germany.
Huxley would say that actually I'm so thankful for Darwin, because,
whether I believe it or not, it gave me moral
(15:22):
license to live any way I want, apart from God.
Another great scientist said, Darwinian evolution is the engine of atheism.
Here's what you need to understand your worldview really matters.
You have two great options, with a few that are
developing on either side. But your options are this. Do
(15:44):
you believe that life is a result of a single cell,
random chance, no plan, that you, in fact and all
the world is the product of billions of years of
chemical reactions and all the logical implications. Do you believe
that there's a personal God that made you and made
everyone that, every single person, those that you disagree with,
(16:06):
those that are different, those who believe different, they're made
in the image of God. God created them, and he
loves them, and he calls you, and he calls me
to treat them with dignity. That there's no room for prejudice,
there's no room for all the kind of things that
mankind has done for one another, because the infinite personal
God has made all of us, and He's created us
(16:28):
for himself. And here's my question, do you honestly believe
with your life, not just in your head, that God
created all that there is? And are you teaching your
children and your grandchildren the worldview that by faith flows
out of that. Are you willing to spend some time
and say, you know, science is great, there's no dichotomy
(16:50):
God created at all. Would you introduce them to some
great Christian scientists. Would you be willing to have a
dialogue and talk about evolution? Not like you're afraid or intimidated.
What I can tell you is brilliant people Christian and
non Christian are not buying evolution. So you're not a minority,
and you're not anti intellectual. What I want you to
(17:11):
know is that I have confidence and I believe that
God has spoken, and I believe when I look at
all the questions that my intellect is intact. I've not
thrown my brains in the trash. If you want to
get more specific information and dig in a little bit deeper,
I have all this in my book. Why I believe Father,
I pray now that we would grasp the implications of
(17:33):
what it means that you made us, that you are
the creator, That there is purpose and meaning, that there
is life eternal, that every single person matters that the
sunsets that we see that when we hold a new
baby in our arms, when we look into the eyes
of some someone that we love, that it's not some
(17:54):
chemical reaction. It is the reality of being made in
the image of God and having the capacity to love
and to be loved. Lord, I pray that for my
brothers and sisters. I prayed it would be bold and
we would enter the public square winsomely, kindly, and completely
not afraid in Jesus' name.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Amen, you're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram,
and the message you just heard why I Believe in
Creation is from our series Dealing with Doubts. Chip will
join us in studio to share some insights from today's
talking just a minute. Did you know there's a lot
of solid, verifiable evidence that supports the truth of Scripture
(18:38):
and the existence of Jesus. The real challenge lies in
communicating that proof and the hope of the Gospel to
those sincerely seeking answers. So how do we do that well?
In this series, Chip and guest teacher John Dickerson share
ways to effectively and winsomely address honest questions about our
faith that will attract people to the Bible, not repel
(18:59):
them from it. Also, we want you to have all
the necessary tools for those conversations. So whenever you hear
a book, podcast, or article mentioned in this series, visit
Livingontheedge dot org and check out our resources page. We
want to point to you to relevant biblically grounded experts
who will equip you to engage with the doubters and
skeptics in your life. Find that resources page at Living
(19:23):
on the Edge dot org or through the Chippingram map. Well,
Chip's joined me in studio now, and Chip, I don't
know if I've ever asked you this before, but take
a minute or so and talk about your heart for writing,
specifically your book. Why I believe now? Why develop resources
like this?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, Dave, I think it's the impact books had on me.
I would say. Before I became a Christian, unless it
was required reading for high school or college, I didn't
read books. You know. I played a lot of basketball,
and then early in my Christian life I got exposed
to some books that really, I mean, they help me.
They'd so challenge me, and I had lots of questions
(20:01):
and I didn't grow up as a follower of Christ.
And I mean I've always been a skeptic, and so
it was all those different books that at a certain
time in life, I thought I would love to be
able to maybe put something in writing, but I want
to share it in a way that I've done the research,
but is for just us, regular people that maybe don't
have a PhD in this or that. And this book
(20:25):
Why I Believe was my journey of searching out the
truth for myself. And part of what I wanted to
do was do all that research, and if a PhD
read it, he would say, Wow, yeah, I see all
your references here, I see where you got that. Yes,
those are the big issues. But then I would want
a high school student or a young adult or even
a junior hire to read through this book Why I
(20:47):
Believe and say to themselves, oh, this makes sense. Yeah, wow,
I've never thought about it that way, Or I didn't
know that, you mean Jesus actually said that, or people
outside of Christianity in the first century wrote these things
about Jesus. You mean he was a real person, etc. Etc.
If we can't answer the hard questions, we're going to
see the whole next generation literally be washed away. Right
(21:11):
before our eyes. You got to sit down with your
family and get the answers first for yourself and then
pass them on and not only.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
To your kids.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
But I would say it's super important right now. We
think people are closed. People are desperate in the world
that we're living in. They want answers. I mean, my
granddaughter invited five kids at school from all ethnic backgrounds.
None were Christians, and many you would think would never
be open to hear about Jesus. She read my book
Why I Believe, and she got a little study and said, hey,
(21:44):
would you all like to do this? They all said, yes,
people are more open than you think, but they need
to hear good, solid answers shared in humility.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That's right, ship. So let me encourage you to check
out two insightful tools we've buddled together just for this series.
The first is Chip's book Why I Believe, and the
second is a book called Jesus Skeptic by our good
friend John Dickerson. As you read these resources, we hope
you'll realize the evidence for Jesus' existence, the accuracy of
(22:13):
the Bible, and how Christianity has positively shaped our world.
Learn more about this bundle by calling triple eight three
three three six zero zero three, or by visiting Living
on the Edge dot org. App listeners tap special offers
with that chip. Let's get to that application we promised.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Thanks Dave. You know, as we wrap this up, here's
what we have to remember. No one was there at
the beginning of creation. So Christianity and evolution are both
faith based ideologies. I mean, it takes faith to believe
that like something came out of nothing. It takes faith
to believe that a personal creator, God spoke and the
(22:56):
world came into existence. The question then is where's the evidence?
What do you base things on? And there's certain presuppositions
with the evolutionary mindset that takes all the facts and
says this is what's true. And there's certain presuppositions from
scripture that if God created things and you look at
the evidence, this is very clearly true. What we need
(23:16):
to make sure is that we never budge from what
the Bible says, but we do it in a way
that's kind and loving and listening, and we care about
the person. So often the evolutionary theory is a smoke
screen for a lot of personal hurts, for a lot
of damage, for some bad experiences with other Christians. Let's
(23:38):
make sure they have a good experience with us, that
we really listen, we do our homework, and then in
a calm, kind loving way, we share this is what
I believe and why, and by the way, we can
agree to disagree, and I want to care for you
as a person whether we end up agreeing or not.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's a powerful reminder, Chip, especially in the divisive culture
we live in. Good word. As we wrap up, I
want to thank those of you who make this program
possible through your generous financial support. Your gifts help us
create programs, purchase airtime, and develop additional resources to help
Christians live like Christians. If you've been blessed by the
(24:18):
ministry of Living on the Edge, would you consider sending
a gift today? You can do that by visiting Livingontheedge
dot org or by calling Triple eight three three three
six zero zero three. That's Triple eight three three three
six zero zero three, or visit Living on the Edge
dot org. App Listeners tap donate. We want you to
(24:40):
know how much we appreciate your support. Well, thanks for
listening to this edition of Living on the Edge with
Chip Ingram. I'm Dave Drury and I hope you'll join
us again next time.
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