May 12, 2025 • 25 mins
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
If you were to study many of the world's notable scientists, writers,
medical professionals, and educators, you noticed that there was one
belief they all had in common, one absolute conviction that
collectively drove them to be the greatness we now know
them by. Stay with me, let's discover it together.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thanks for listening to this edition of Living on the
Edge with Chip Ingram. We are in international teaching and
discipleship ministry that encourages and equips Christians to live like Christians. Well.
In just a minute, our guest teacher, John Dickerson will
pick up where we left off in our newest series
dealing with Doubts, and before he gets going, let me
(00:52):
remind you that John and Chip will be back after
this message to share some deeper application for what you're
about to hear. Miss what they'll talk about, but for now,
get your Bible and notes ready as we settle in
for the second half of John's message, Jesus, You and healthcare.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Similar with this rapid change in human history called the
scientific Revolution. For thousands of years, humans were rubbing sticks
together and mixing potions, and then there was this rapid
change that led to the Industrial Revolution. In the modern
era called the scientific Revolution. We know who the thinkers
are who unlocked the cabinets of science. It's Isaac Newton,
(01:32):
It's Blaze Pascal, it's Johannes Kepler. Because of these guys
that you have glasses and contacts. It's because of these
guys that we have modern life, and we aren't living
like we're camping in the dark ages. And when I
went through their own writings, I found them writing about
God and Jesus. If you remember high school chemistry, you
learned Boyle's law. Robert Boyle, the father of modern chemistry.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
He wrote a.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Whole book called the Christian Virtuoso. Whole thesis was the
if you believe in a God who created, you can
be a better scientist. Now, my point is that as
they endeavored to.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Do what Jesus says.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
They made big gains for humanity. Well, in my own
doubtful study of Jesus, my logical approach was, first, this
did Jesus actually live? If you believe Plato or Socrates
or any other historic figure live, there's way more evidence
that this Jesus of Nazareth lived. But the second question
(02:29):
in my logical approach was this.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Do we know what he actually said. I mean, Christians
have this.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Book called the Bible. They say it's God's word. They say,
we have Jesus words.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
How do we know?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
When I looked into where does the Bible come from?
I was surprised one. It wasn't just one person. But
the thing that most surprised me when I dug into
the study of ancient manuscripts was this reality that there
are more ancient manuscripts of the books of the Bible
than any other ancient literature in the world. So, for example,
(03:03):
if you read Socrates or Plato or Aristotle today you're
reading an English translation of one of about twelve to
thirty documents for books of the Bible and the New Testament,
like the Gospel of John. We don't just have twelve
or twenty. We have like two thousand or five thousand
or six thousand ancient copies. And what's fascinating about these
(03:27):
ancient copies. Here's a picture of one. This is a
papyrus of Acts. This was dug out of the desert
sands in Egypt. Is that researchers have for hundreds of
years now at the best universities in the world, gathered
all these and put them side by side. Tons of
Europe's libraries have these, and now many in the US
(03:49):
as well. And here's what the researchers started to find.
They could take a Gospel of John that was dated
from within one hundred years of when Jesus lived, found
in the desert sands in Egypt. They could find another
Gospel of John that was written on leather and buried
in a cave in Italy.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Put them side by side, and they.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Ninety eight percent agree, with the two percent being things
like spelling, punctuation, stylistic things. And this has been researched by,
i mean, thousands of the smartest people over hundreds of years,
and if you really look into it, you can't out
but come to the conclusion. Well, if I believe that
(04:27):
what I'm reading is Plato's as Plato's, then I have
to believe that what these words of Jesus are Jesus. Now,
if you want to reject that, know, those aren't possibly
the words of Jesus, that's okay. But to be logical,
you'd have to say that I never believe anything that
I didn't see the person write it down myself.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
And if you want to live that way.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You're free to so he lived. We know what he
said next is what did he say? Well, here's one
of the things he said in Acts one, verse eight.
He said to his first followers, they were about one
hundred and twenty at the time, you will receive power
when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you'll be
my witnesses in Jerusalem.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's where they lived, Judea.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's like Central Indiana, Samaria, and to the ends of
the earth.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
What a radical prediction.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I mean, who says my followers are going to spread
to the ends of the earth. This is before airplanes,
it's before steam locomotives. I mean, his followers don't even
know that North America exists. This is a radical prediction.
When I came across this as a journalist, I loved
(05:37):
it because I can measure this. I know the guy lived.
I know he said this nineteen hundred years ago, at
least probably two thousand years ago. Let's measure this thing
because I know. Napoleon claimed he would take over the
world and he didn't. Alexander claimed he would and he didn't.
The Soviet Union claimed it would. I mean, no one
has actually done this, and what are the chances with
(05:59):
one hundred.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
And twenty followers.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
For a peasant prophet to say, you're gonna spread my
message to the ends of the earth. Here's a visual
of where Christianity was in the world at that time.
If you look for the blue, as you can see,
there were only one hundred and twenty people worldwide who
are Christians.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Keep in mind this is before Gutenberg's printing press, another
follower of Jesus. This is before so many technological advances
that can spread things around the world. This is so
long ago. This is before the flip phone. Even this
says before dial up modem.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
It's how old this is.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
As a researcher, I didn't want to ask Christians how
many Christians there are? I wanted to ask an objective,
secular group. So I went to the Pew Research Center,
which is the gold standard in sociology today. Here's their
map of Christianity worldwide today. Just look for the blue.
The darker the blue, the more Christians there are the
(07:01):
white areas. If you look at the bottom there it
says no data. That's because the white areas are areas
where it is illegal to be a Christian. We know
for a fact there are Christians in those countries. In fact,
we have missionaries who help the Christians in some of
those countries. But there are countries where Christians get beheaded
and physically stone. So you can't exactly send a demographer
(07:24):
or researcher in there to be like, hey, let's take
a survey, you know, are you a Christian? So even
those ones that are white, and then of course you've
got Antarctica at the bottom. I always have one skeptic
becaus like, oh what about that giant one at the
bottom that is penguin Land. Okay, Now the point is this,
just be objective. Who else in history has done this?
(07:49):
I mean no one else, No one else has done this.
And so if for no other reason, the words of
Jesus deserve your attention. Because he said that hell exists
and have exists, He said that eternal life exists.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
He claimed that he's God.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
He claimed that he made you and can fix things
in you that no one else can fix.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
So if he's right, the stakes are way too high
to just brush it off.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
The stakes are way too high. Well, why does this
movement keep growing? Because another thing as I looked into
the growth of Christianity, It's not like some franchise where
they're like, oh, let's let's do a location here or here.
It's this organic thing.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
People like me.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Place their faith in Jesus when he said, come to me,
you who are weary and burdened, and I will give
you rest for your soul.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And it so changes us, it so transforms.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Us that we can't help but just go tell other people,
say you've got to give this a try. And that
keeps happening every year, and it happens.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
In countries where people go to jail or lose their
lives for being Christian, but they still say, like, this
is worth it, and it just keeps spreading. I want
you to think back to that story of my daughters
and their little doll village being ransacked by their older
brother and his dragons. You know, Jesus said that there
(09:20):
is an enemy of your soul. There is an unseen realm.
There's more to you than your body. And in that
unseen realm, this enemy of your soul, he came into
this world to kill and steal and destroy, and he
started with our ancestors long long ago, and we're now
born into a world that has been destroyed. Just like
my daughter's little doll village. That's why we have cancer,
(09:45):
That's why we have racism and inequality and injustice. That's
why we have genocide and war and death. If just
really smart people could fix it, it would be fixed
by now, because there's plenty of smart people in the world.
Jesus came into this world to rebuild the village with
(10:05):
a different kind of claim that we need someone who
can change human nature from the inside out. We need
someone who can transform our hearts. We need someone who
can reconnect us to God, and that's who he claimed
to be, the hero of the universe. So maybe you're thinking, okay, John,
what does this look like. Someone believes in Jesus and
(10:28):
they follow Jesus, then what is this big difference in
the world that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You're listening to Living on the Edge with the chip Ingram,
and we'll get back to our guest teacher John Dickerson
in just a minute, But let me quickly ask, do
you know someone who's a skeptic. Maybe it's that close
friend or family member who genuinely doubts the truth of
the Bible or the existence of Jesus. Well, stick around
after the teaching to hear about a resource bundle we've
(10:56):
put together that'll provide answers and direction for that doubt
or in your life. But for now here again, as John.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Well, I want to start right at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Very soon after Jesus ascended into heaven, his followers started
living out what he said.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Now keep in mind.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That most global cultures at this time, if a child
was born with special needs, they would just discard it.
They would throw it in the trash heap, or they
would throw it in the river. In many cultures at
that time, and this is all well documented, girls were
often discarded because many dads wanted boys.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Because they could do more physical labor.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And it was not uncommon at that time in history
for girls to be discarded. And the Christians starting to
live out what Jesus said became this radical group. It
was also a very racially divided world. They became this
group where there was people of different ethnicities and languages
loving each other.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
And then with this.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Group would come across an orphan, they would help the
orphan or widow. There was no social security, they would
take care of the widow. There are stories from secular
historians of when Pagans would throw their babies into the
river of the Christians wading into the water and rescuing
those babies out. The Romans around the year two hundred
(12:17):
had this practice that when some kind of plague or
sickness would hit their city.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
The rich people would just leave.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They didn't understand immunology, but they knew if we stick around,
will probably die, and they would just abandon the people.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Who are sick.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
The Christians would stay and they'd provide the care that
they could with their very rudimentary understanding of science. Over time,
this continued all the way up to stories like Mary
Mose who you heard about, And I want to tell
you just one other story like that. You know, as
(12:53):
recently as one hundred and fifty years ago, if someone
was born with what today we would call special needs
or atypical learning the way of the world. And forgive
me that this sounds brash, I'm just reporting on history here.
I'm not saying this. The common language was to call
those people idiots. They were called idiots or lunatics, and
(13:17):
poor families would often discard them. Sometimes, wealthy families would
lock them away in an asylum. It would hide them
because they were embarrassed of them. And in that world
there was a young follower of Jesus, John langdon Down.
He was raised going to Sunday school and church every Sunday,
(13:38):
and in his teen years he had an interaction with
a girl that today we would call special needs, and
God just ignited in his heart this compassion for her.
From his understanding of a God who makes all people
in his image, who so loved the world that he
laid down his life for every single person.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
He thought, what if we could have a place.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Where people who have this condition are treated with dignity
and respect. So he went to medical school, and in
medical college he actually won a prize for an essay
he wrote.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
You know the title of that essay, the Wisdom and
Benevolence of the Creator that is God. That was his
whole view.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
God has made humanity, and there as a student one
time proofreading one of his profound essays, he met a
young woman who would become his wife. They got married
and together they decided that instead of him pursuing a
career to make as much money as he could as
a doctor, that they wanted to create something that had
(14:40):
never before existed, a special home for people with special needs,
where they could wear nice clothes, eat healthy food, be
treated with dignity and respect at a time when corporal
punishment that his beatings, was still the norm, where that
would be disallowed, where there would be art and literature,
(15:05):
And they spent their lives creating this environment that had
never before existed, where really the things that today we
call occupational therapy, where a person who is atypical or
has some disabilities as taught as much as they can.
Doctor Down and his wife really laid the foundation for that,
(15:26):
and in the process, doctor Down identified this syndrome, and
that's actually where we get the term today Down's syndrome.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I loved it. He called each one.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
A patient, and where other places would kind of lock
them away, he would dress them in the nicest clothed,
make sure they were bathed and cleaned, feed them a
healthy diet. And most people's special needs at that time
were never photographed, but he would photograph them and as
you can see, photograph them in the nicest clothes of
(15:58):
that era. So here we are one hundred fifty years later,
and we're born into a world where if anyone called
someone who's different an idiot, we would all look at
them like, what is wrong with you? And that change
has come about not by accident, and the fact that
if you get sick today, there's a hospital you can
go to. That change has come about not by accident.
(16:20):
If you remember Kevin Byron, he's a firefighter here in
the Brownsburg area. I want to introduce you to his son, Aiden.
Here's a picture of Aiden. If you've never met Aiden,
Aiden is a bright light. He will bring a lot
of joy to your life. Aiden's nineteen years old. He
was born with a syndrome called Vate or vat Er syndrome.
(16:42):
It means that he was born missing a number of organs,
missing some vertebrae in his spine, missing a lot of things.
And as a result, Aiden's a little different.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
He's really special.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Something I didn't know about Aiden until a week we
could go today when I was hanging out with him
and Kevin. Is this starting at age three. There's a
woman in our church named Stacy Hickett who said to
Kevin and his wife, you need to be able to
come to church and enjoy being in church and Aidan,
you know, he'll kind of blurt out things. And she said,
(17:20):
any Sunday that you guys show up at church. I
will walk the halls with Aidan during the entire service.
I'll sing with him, I'll talk with him. I'll keep
him entertained. From age three to age nineteen. That's sixteen
years times fifty two weeks a year. That's more than
eight hundred sundays that Stacy has said. I'm going to
(17:41):
serve a family. I'm going to love aiden who's made
in the image of God. Now, the point is this,
this man, Jesus lived.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
His words.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Have inspired people to do good in the world that
we can empirically measure good. That I would argue, based
on the whole of my research, that if we were
to withdraw the universities they founded, in the hospitals they started,
we'd be living like we're camping in the dark ages.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
But it continues today.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
See, God uses ordinary people who truly believe the words
of Jesus to do extraordinary things. Let's follow Jesus so
that our sons and daughters and our neighbors can see
a light shining in the darkness.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
You're listening to Living on the Edge with chip Ingram.
John Dickerson has been our guest teacher for this program Jesus,
You and Healthcare from our series Dealing with Doubts. He
and Chip will be back in studio shortly. You share
their application for this message. If someone were to ask you,
how do you know Jesus actually lived? Or can we
(18:53):
really trust the Bible? What would you say? We join.
Pastor and award winning journalist John Dickerson explores these complex topics,
drawing on evidence from various credible sources and the impact
Christians have had throughout history. John builds a credible case
for believing in Jesus. Our hope is that as you listen,
you'll be able to confidently say Jesus is real, the
(19:16):
Bible is true, and I can prove it. In fact,
we have some valuable tools to back you up. Anytime
John or Chip mention a book, podcast, or article in
this series, you can easily find it on our resources
page at Livingontheedge dot org. We want to equip you
with practical Bible centered materials to use personally or share
(19:37):
with others, so check out the resources page at Livingontheedge
dot org. Today, Well, I'm joined in studio now by
Chip and we're in the middle of this series that
you and John Dickerson are teaching together, and I was
hoping you'd take a minute and talk to those who
are thinking. John has spent a lot of time talking
about history. Why is that so important? I mean, what
(20:00):
can we really learn from it?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Well, I'd be glad to Dave. And what I would
remind them is much of the entire Old Testament is history,
and history matters. The Book of Acts is basically history
and the facts that John is digging in. Talk about
how we got our biblical worldview, why we can trust
the scriptures, what foundational things have happened. You know, we
(20:24):
live in a culture where people talk about how prejudiced
is wrong and social justice is important, and we want
you know, medical coverage and opportunity for all people everywhere.
What many of them don't understand. All those grew out
of a history of Christians that were faithful to the text,
faithful to God and use their gifts because they had
(20:47):
a worldview that said Jesus cares all people matter. In fact,
social justice, racial equality, education for all, medicine that's available,
scientific discovery, and literacy see for the masses have all
grown because of a Christian worldview and context. And I
will tell you what. It's just so encouraging to me
(21:09):
for someone who's an academic but speaks our language to
set the record straight. I was a skeptic myself, and
I so appreciate John's work because I went through the
same process. I just really wondered, can I really believe
any of this? In fact, I rejected it early, and
it was my first hand journey that helped me come
(21:29):
to realize I can trust the Bible, I can trust
the claims of Christ. The impact of Christianity, despite our flaws,
has shaped the world for good.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So if you're in the middle of that journey or
watching one of your kids or grandkids wrestle with what
they believe, we have some resources that can help. During
this series, we've bundled two of our more popular books,
Jesus Skeptic and Why I Believe. We pray that as
you read these books from John and Chip, you'll uncover
the evidence for Jesus' existence and the accuracy of the Bible,
(22:01):
and how Christianity has positively shaped our world. So if
you want to answers to some of these big faith questions,
check out this bundle today. Is it Living on the
Edge dot Org I'll call us at triple eight three
three three six zero zero three app listeners tap special offers. Well,
here again our Chip and John to share a few
(22:22):
final thoughts.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Thanks Dave, John, you shared some pretty hard evidence today,
not just for the existence of Jesus, but the profound
impact on culture and science and actually the welfare.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Of the world.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
What do we's believers do with this? I mean, what
is your hope by helping us understand kind of our
roots and the impact of Christian thought and the Christian
worldview and how that's been applied through history.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
You know, Really, my hope is to activate everyone who's
listening to this, who's a follower of Jesus, to not
just believe, but also to obey the people who've changed
the world for the better. As followers of Jesus, we're
not merely people who had accurate theology and sat in
(23:11):
a locked room or church. It was the people who
went out and did what Jesus says to do, to
love our enemies, to pray for those who persecute us,
to feed the poor, to spread the good news. And so,
as a follower of Jesus today, I want to encourage you,
especially if you see things in the world that grieve
you or upset you. Revisit the words of Jesus in
(23:35):
the Gospels and really ask yourself, am I really obeying this?
I know for me as an American Christian, it is
so easy to get comfortable in our middle class lifestyles
and homes and just kind of live a life for ourselves,
live in the American dream while believing in Jesus. But
the people who change the world, the people who expand
(23:58):
the Kingdom of God, are the peace people who are
not only hearers of the Word, but doers also the
people who trust and obey, who go and do so.
I want to encourage every one of you listening join
me today, join me this week and being a follower
of Jesus who doesn't just believe what Jesus says, but
who goes and does what Jesus did.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Great challenge, John. Thanks as we close. If you're looking
for good Bible content, check out the CHIP and gram Map.
You can listen to our most recent series or sign
up for Daily Discipleship with CHIP, a great resource to
help you study God's Word at a deeper level. We
want you to grow in your walk with Jesus and
the chip and gram map will help you do just that. Well.
(24:42):
From all of us here, I'm Dave Druy, thanking you
for listening to this edition of Living on the Edge,
and I hope you'll join us again next time
If you were to study many of the world's notable scientists, writers,
medical professionals, and educators, you noticed that there was one
belief they all had in common, one absolute conviction that
collectively drove them to be the greatness we now know
them by. Stay with me, let's discover it together.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thanks for listening to this edition of Living on the
Edge with Chip Ingram. We are in international teaching and
discipleship ministry that encourages and equips Christians to live like Christians. Well.
In just a minute, our guest teacher, John Dickerson will
pick up where we left off in our newest series
dealing with Doubts, and before he gets going, let me
(00:52):
remind you that John and Chip will be back after
this message to share some deeper application for what you're
about to hear. Miss what they'll talk about, but for now,
get your Bible and notes ready as we settle in
for the second half of John's message, Jesus, You and healthcare.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Similar with this rapid change in human history called the
scientific Revolution. For thousands of years, humans were rubbing sticks
together and mixing potions, and then there was this rapid
change that led to the Industrial Revolution. In the modern
era called the scientific Revolution. We know who the thinkers
are who unlocked the cabinets of science. It's Isaac Newton,
(01:32):
It's Blaze Pascal, it's Johannes Kepler. Because of these guys
that you have glasses and contacts. It's because of these
guys that we have modern life, and we aren't living
like we're camping in the dark ages. And when I
went through their own writings, I found them writing about
God and Jesus. If you remember high school chemistry, you
learned Boyle's law. Robert Boyle, the father of modern chemistry.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
He wrote a.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Whole book called the Christian Virtuoso. Whole thesis was the
if you believe in a God who created, you can
be a better scientist. Now, my point is that as
they endeavored to.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Do what Jesus says.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
They made big gains for humanity. Well, in my own
doubtful study of Jesus, my logical approach was, first, this
did Jesus actually live? If you believe Plato or Socrates
or any other historic figure live, there's way more evidence
that this Jesus of Nazareth lived. But the second question
(02:29):
in my logical approach was this.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Do we know what he actually said. I mean, Christians
have this.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Book called the Bible. They say it's God's word. They say,
we have Jesus words.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
How do we know?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
When I looked into where does the Bible come from?
I was surprised one. It wasn't just one person. But
the thing that most surprised me when I dug into
the study of ancient manuscripts was this reality that there
are more ancient manuscripts of the books of the Bible
than any other ancient literature in the world. So, for example,
(03:03):
if you read Socrates or Plato or Aristotle today you're
reading an English translation of one of about twelve to
thirty documents for books of the Bible and the New Testament,
like the Gospel of John. We don't just have twelve
or twenty. We have like two thousand or five thousand
or six thousand ancient copies. And what's fascinating about these
(03:27):
ancient copies. Here's a picture of one. This is a
papyrus of Acts. This was dug out of the desert
sands in Egypt. Is that researchers have for hundreds of
years now at the best universities in the world, gathered
all these and put them side by side. Tons of
Europe's libraries have these, and now many in the US
(03:49):
as well. And here's what the researchers started to find.
They could take a Gospel of John that was dated
from within one hundred years of when Jesus lived, found
in the desert sands in Egypt. They could find another
Gospel of John that was written on leather and buried
in a cave in Italy.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Put them side by side, and they.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Ninety eight percent agree, with the two percent being things
like spelling, punctuation, stylistic things. And this has been researched by,
i mean, thousands of the smartest people over hundreds of years,
and if you really look into it, you can't out
but come to the conclusion. Well, if I believe that
(04:27):
what I'm reading is Plato's as Plato's, then I have
to believe that what these words of Jesus are Jesus. Now,
if you want to reject that, know, those aren't possibly
the words of Jesus, that's okay. But to be logical,
you'd have to say that I never believe anything that
I didn't see the person write it down myself.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
And if you want to live that way.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You're free to so he lived. We know what he
said next is what did he say? Well, here's one
of the things he said in Acts one, verse eight.
He said to his first followers, they were about one
hundred and twenty at the time, you will receive power
when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you'll be
my witnesses in Jerusalem.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's where they lived, Judea.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's like Central Indiana, Samaria, and to the ends of
the earth.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
What a radical prediction.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I mean, who says my followers are going to spread
to the ends of the earth. This is before airplanes,
it's before steam locomotives. I mean, his followers don't even
know that North America exists. This is a radical prediction.
When I came across this as a journalist, I loved
(05:37):
it because I can measure this. I know the guy lived.
I know he said this nineteen hundred years ago, at
least probably two thousand years ago. Let's measure this thing
because I know. Napoleon claimed he would take over the
world and he didn't. Alexander claimed he would and he didn't.
The Soviet Union claimed it would. I mean, no one
has actually done this, and what are the chances with
(05:59):
one hundred.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
And twenty followers.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
For a peasant prophet to say, you're gonna spread my
message to the ends of the earth. Here's a visual
of where Christianity was in the world at that time.
If you look for the blue, as you can see,
there were only one hundred and twenty people worldwide who
are Christians.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Keep in mind this is before Gutenberg's printing press, another
follower of Jesus. This is before so many technological advances
that can spread things around the world. This is so
long ago. This is before the flip phone. Even this
says before dial up modem.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
It's how old this is.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
As a researcher, I didn't want to ask Christians how
many Christians there are? I wanted to ask an objective,
secular group. So I went to the Pew Research Center,
which is the gold standard in sociology today. Here's their
map of Christianity worldwide today. Just look for the blue.
The darker the blue, the more Christians there are the
(07:01):
white areas. If you look at the bottom there it
says no data. That's because the white areas are areas
where it is illegal to be a Christian. We know
for a fact there are Christians in those countries. In fact,
we have missionaries who help the Christians in some of
those countries. But there are countries where Christians get beheaded
and physically stone. So you can't exactly send a demographer
(07:24):
or researcher in there to be like, hey, let's take
a survey, you know, are you a Christian? So even
those ones that are white, and then of course you've
got Antarctica at the bottom. I always have one skeptic
becaus like, oh what about that giant one at the
bottom that is penguin Land. Okay, Now the point is this,
just be objective. Who else in history has done this?
(07:49):
I mean no one else, No one else has done this.
And so if for no other reason, the words of
Jesus deserve your attention. Because he said that hell exists
and have exists, He said that eternal life exists.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
He claimed that he's God.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
He claimed that he made you and can fix things
in you that no one else can fix.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
So if he's right, the stakes are way too high
to just brush it off.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
The stakes are way too high. Well, why does this
movement keep growing? Because another thing as I looked into
the growth of Christianity, It's not like some franchise where
they're like, oh, let's let's do a location here or here.
It's this organic thing.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
People like me.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Place their faith in Jesus when he said, come to me,
you who are weary and burdened, and I will give
you rest for your soul.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And it so changes us, it so transforms.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Us that we can't help but just go tell other people,
say you've got to give this a try. And that
keeps happening every year, and it happens.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
In countries where people go to jail or lose their
lives for being Christian, but they still say, like, this
is worth it, and it just keeps spreading. I want
you to think back to that story of my daughters
and their little doll village being ransacked by their older
brother and his dragons. You know, Jesus said that there
(09:20):
is an enemy of your soul. There is an unseen realm.
There's more to you than your body. And in that
unseen realm, this enemy of your soul, he came into
this world to kill and steal and destroy, and he
started with our ancestors long long ago, and we're now
born into a world that has been destroyed. Just like
my daughter's little doll village. That's why we have cancer,
(09:45):
That's why we have racism and inequality and injustice. That's
why we have genocide and war and death. If just
really smart people could fix it, it would be fixed
by now, because there's plenty of smart people in the world.
Jesus came into this world to rebuild the village with
(10:05):
a different kind of claim that we need someone who
can change human nature from the inside out. We need
someone who can transform our hearts. We need someone who
can reconnect us to God, and that's who he claimed
to be, the hero of the universe. So maybe you're thinking, okay, John,
what does this look like. Someone believes in Jesus and
(10:28):
they follow Jesus, then what is this big difference in
the world that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You're listening to Living on the Edge with the chip Ingram,
and we'll get back to our guest teacher John Dickerson
in just a minute, But let me quickly ask, do
you know someone who's a skeptic. Maybe it's that close
friend or family member who genuinely doubts the truth of
the Bible or the existence of Jesus. Well, stick around
after the teaching to hear about a resource bundle we've
(10:56):
put together that'll provide answers and direction for that doubt
or in your life. But for now here again, as John.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Well, I want to start right at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Very soon after Jesus ascended into heaven, his followers started
living out what he said.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Now keep in mind.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That most global cultures at this time, if a child
was born with special needs, they would just discard it.
They would throw it in the trash heap, or they
would throw it in the river. In many cultures at
that time, and this is all well documented, girls were
often discarded because many dads wanted boys.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Because they could do more physical labor.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And it was not uncommon at that time in history
for girls to be discarded. And the Christians starting to
live out what Jesus said became this radical group. It
was also a very racially divided world. They became this
group where there was people of different ethnicities and languages
loving each other.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
And then with this.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Group would come across an orphan, they would help the
orphan or widow. There was no social security, they would
take care of the widow. There are stories from secular
historians of when Pagans would throw their babies into the
river of the Christians wading into the water and rescuing
those babies out. The Romans around the year two hundred
(12:17):
had this practice that when some kind of plague or
sickness would hit their city.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
The rich people would just leave.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They didn't understand immunology, but they knew if we stick around,
will probably die, and they would just abandon the people.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Who are sick.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
The Christians would stay and they'd provide the care that
they could with their very rudimentary understanding of science. Over time,
this continued all the way up to stories like Mary
Mose who you heard about, And I want to tell
you just one other story like that. You know, as
(12:53):
recently as one hundred and fifty years ago, if someone
was born with what today we would call special needs
or atypical learning the way of the world. And forgive
me that this sounds brash, I'm just reporting on history here.
I'm not saying this. The common language was to call
those people idiots. They were called idiots or lunatics, and
(13:17):
poor families would often discard them. Sometimes, wealthy families would
lock them away in an asylum. It would hide them
because they were embarrassed of them. And in that world
there was a young follower of Jesus, John langdon Down.
He was raised going to Sunday school and church every Sunday,
(13:38):
and in his teen years he had an interaction with
a girl that today we would call special needs, and
God just ignited in his heart this compassion for her.
From his understanding of a God who makes all people
in his image, who so loved the world that he
laid down his life for every single person.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
He thought, what if we could have a place.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Where people who have this condition are treated with dignity
and respect. So he went to medical school, and in
medical college he actually won a prize for an essay
he wrote.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
You know the title of that essay, the Wisdom and
Benevolence of the Creator that is God. That was his
whole view.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
God has made humanity, and there as a student one
time proofreading one of his profound essays, he met a
young woman who would become his wife. They got married
and together they decided that instead of him pursuing a
career to make as much money as he could as
a doctor, that they wanted to create something that had
(14:40):
never before existed, a special home for people with special needs,
where they could wear nice clothes, eat healthy food, be
treated with dignity and respect at a time when corporal
punishment that his beatings, was still the norm, where that
would be disallowed, where there would be art and literature,
(15:05):
And they spent their lives creating this environment that had
never before existed, where really the things that today we
call occupational therapy, where a person who is atypical or
has some disabilities as taught as much as they can.
Doctor Down and his wife really laid the foundation for that,
(15:26):
and in the process, doctor Down identified this syndrome, and
that's actually where we get the term today Down's syndrome.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I loved it. He called each one.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
A patient, and where other places would kind of lock
them away, he would dress them in the nicest clothed,
make sure they were bathed and cleaned, feed them a
healthy diet. And most people's special needs at that time
were never photographed, but he would photograph them and as
you can see, photograph them in the nicest clothes of
(15:58):
that era. So here we are one hundred fifty years later,
and we're born into a world where if anyone called
someone who's different an idiot, we would all look at
them like, what is wrong with you? And that change
has come about not by accident, and the fact that
if you get sick today, there's a hospital you can
go to. That change has come about not by accident.
(16:20):
If you remember Kevin Byron, he's a firefighter here in
the Brownsburg area. I want to introduce you to his son, Aiden.
Here's a picture of Aiden. If you've never met Aiden,
Aiden is a bright light. He will bring a lot
of joy to your life. Aiden's nineteen years old. He
was born with a syndrome called Vate or vat Er syndrome.
(16:42):
It means that he was born missing a number of organs,
missing some vertebrae in his spine, missing a lot of things.
And as a result, Aiden's a little different.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
He's really special.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Something I didn't know about Aiden until a week we
could go today when I was hanging out with him
and Kevin. Is this starting at age three. There's a
woman in our church named Stacy Hickett who said to
Kevin and his wife, you need to be able to
come to church and enjoy being in church and Aidan,
you know, he'll kind of blurt out things. And she said,
(17:20):
any Sunday that you guys show up at church. I
will walk the halls with Aidan during the entire service.
I'll sing with him, I'll talk with him. I'll keep
him entertained. From age three to age nineteen. That's sixteen
years times fifty two weeks a year. That's more than
eight hundred sundays that Stacy has said. I'm going to
(17:41):
serve a family. I'm going to love aiden who's made
in the image of God. Now, the point is this,
this man, Jesus lived.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
His words.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Have inspired people to do good in the world that
we can empirically measure good. That I would argue, based
on the whole of my research, that if we were
to withdraw the universities they founded, in the hospitals they started,
we'd be living like we're camping in the dark ages.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
But it continues today.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
See, God uses ordinary people who truly believe the words
of Jesus to do extraordinary things. Let's follow Jesus so
that our sons and daughters and our neighbors can see
a light shining in the darkness.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
You're listening to Living on the Edge with chip Ingram.
John Dickerson has been our guest teacher for this program Jesus,
You and Healthcare from our series Dealing with Doubts. He
and Chip will be back in studio shortly. You share
their application for this message. If someone were to ask you,
how do you know Jesus actually lived? Or can we
(18:53):
really trust the Bible? What would you say? We join.
Pastor and award winning journalist John Dickerson explores these complex topics,
drawing on evidence from various credible sources and the impact
Christians have had throughout history. John builds a credible case
for believing in Jesus. Our hope is that as you listen,
you'll be able to confidently say Jesus is real, the
(19:16):
Bible is true, and I can prove it. In fact,
we have some valuable tools to back you up. Anytime
John or Chip mention a book, podcast, or article in
this series, you can easily find it on our resources
page at Livingontheedge dot org. We want to equip you
with practical Bible centered materials to use personally or share
(19:37):
with others, so check out the resources page at Livingontheedge
dot org. Today, Well, I'm joined in studio now by
Chip and we're in the middle of this series that
you and John Dickerson are teaching together, and I was
hoping you'd take a minute and talk to those who
are thinking. John has spent a lot of time talking
about history. Why is that so important? I mean, what
(20:00):
can we really learn from it?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Well, I'd be glad to Dave. And what I would
remind them is much of the entire Old Testament is history,
and history matters. The Book of Acts is basically history
and the facts that John is digging in. Talk about
how we got our biblical worldview, why we can trust
the scriptures, what foundational things have happened. You know, we
(20:24):
live in a culture where people talk about how prejudiced
is wrong and social justice is important, and we want
you know, medical coverage and opportunity for all people everywhere.
What many of them don't understand. All those grew out
of a history of Christians that were faithful to the text,
faithful to God and use their gifts because they had
(20:47):
a worldview that said Jesus cares all people matter. In fact,
social justice, racial equality, education for all, medicine that's available,
scientific discovery, and literacy see for the masses have all
grown because of a Christian worldview and context. And I
will tell you what. It's just so encouraging to me
(21:09):
for someone who's an academic but speaks our language to
set the record straight. I was a skeptic myself, and
I so appreciate John's work because I went through the
same process. I just really wondered, can I really believe
any of this? In fact, I rejected it early, and
it was my first hand journey that helped me come
(21:29):
to realize I can trust the Bible, I can trust
the claims of Christ. The impact of Christianity, despite our flaws,
has shaped the world for good.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So if you're in the middle of that journey or
watching one of your kids or grandkids wrestle with what
they believe, we have some resources that can help. During
this series, we've bundled two of our more popular books,
Jesus Skeptic and Why I Believe. We pray that as
you read these books from John and Chip, you'll uncover
the evidence for Jesus' existence and the accuracy of the Bible,
(22:01):
and how Christianity has positively shaped our world. So if
you want to answers to some of these big faith questions,
check out this bundle today. Is it Living on the
Edge dot Org I'll call us at triple eight three
three three six zero zero three app listeners tap special offers. Well,
here again our Chip and John to share a few
(22:22):
final thoughts.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Thanks Dave, John, you shared some pretty hard evidence today,
not just for the existence of Jesus, but the profound
impact on culture and science and actually the welfare.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Of the world.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
What do we's believers do with this? I mean, what
is your hope by helping us understand kind of our
roots and the impact of Christian thought and the Christian
worldview and how that's been applied through history.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
You know, Really, my hope is to activate everyone who's
listening to this, who's a follower of Jesus, to not
just believe, but also to obey the people who've changed
the world for the better. As followers of Jesus, we're
not merely people who had accurate theology and sat in
(23:11):
a locked room or church. It was the people who
went out and did what Jesus says to do, to
love our enemies, to pray for those who persecute us,
to feed the poor, to spread the good news. And so,
as a follower of Jesus today, I want to encourage you,
especially if you see things in the world that grieve
you or upset you. Revisit the words of Jesus in
(23:35):
the Gospels and really ask yourself, am I really obeying this?
I know for me as an American Christian, it is
so easy to get comfortable in our middle class lifestyles
and homes and just kind of live a life for ourselves,
live in the American dream while believing in Jesus. But
the people who change the world, the people who expand
(23:58):
the Kingdom of God, are the peace people who are
not only hearers of the Word, but doers also the
people who trust and obey, who go and do so.
I want to encourage every one of you listening join
me today, join me this week and being a follower
of Jesus who doesn't just believe what Jesus says, but
who goes and does what Jesus did.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Great challenge, John. Thanks as we close. If you're looking
for good Bible content, check out the CHIP and gram Map.
You can listen to our most recent series or sign
up for Daily Discipleship with CHIP, a great resource to
help you study God's Word at a deeper level. We
want you to grow in your walk with Jesus and
the chip and gram map will help you do just that. Well.
(24:42):
From all of us here, I'm Dave Druy, thanking you
for listening to this edition of Living on the Edge,
and I hope you'll join us again next time
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!