Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Schalem. I'm from here in the Holy Land. I'm your host,
Y l XTEM, President and CEO of the International Fellowship
of Christians and Jews. I can't think of a better
person to have on the podcast today than my next guest,
Paula Ferris Woo. As many of you know, Paula is
the Emmy Award winning broadcast journalist who spent nine years
(00:31):
at ABC News, where she co anchored Good Morning America, Weekend,
co hosted The View, and launched Journeys of Faith with
Paula Ferris. Then in twenty eighteen, at the height of
her career, Paula pumped the brakes. Totally burned out and
feeling like she was failing both at work and at home.
She authored her first book, called Out Why I Traded
(00:53):
two dream jobs for a life of a true Calling.
After she lost her job at ABC News in twenty twenty,
Paula began a new chapter in her life, a mission
to support and give voice to the thirty five million
women in the workforce through her organization called Carrie Media.
Paula now devotes her many talents as a journalist and
(01:16):
an author to amplify the story of working moms to
cheer them on and to advocate for change for women
in the workplace. As a working mom myself balancing the
needs of my four children and husband with running the
largest nonprofit humanitarian organization in Israel, I know that I
have felt all the same emotions as every working mom, stress, exhaustion, burnout.
(01:41):
It's comforting to know that we are not alone and
that we have such a passionate advocate in Paula. So, Paula,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Thank you, Yaelle. It's so great to officially meet you.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh my gosh, I feel like we are sisters already
though we haven't technically met, But everything that I've read
about you and everything that I've been following your career,
it's all just so relatable and so Yeah, you've created
really this joint bond and sisterhood amongst all women, whether
they're working, staying at home, juggling a little bit of
(02:16):
all of it. You've given that voice that's so needed
in the world to give legitimacy to what women are
going through.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, it's something I'm very passionate about in this season,
and I feel really called to champion mothers and mothers
in the workplace in this season. So it's my honor
and I also feel like it's my responsibility.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
To do so wow, so beautiful and everything that you've
ever done, you've done with full passion, which is why
I think you've been successful in everything that you've tried
out and dabbled in throughout your career. You just have
taken off and become a Stark. So you're so passionate.
So now you're focusing on Carrie media, can you tell
us a little bit about the journey of how you
(02:57):
got there and why you felt at this point of
your life that was your calling.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, let me back it up. And you mentioned the passion.
I think I get that from my Sittu, which is
my Lebanese grandmother. Lebanese women are very fiery, so I
think I owe all my passion two of my sit
to thank you so too. Who oh, yes, thank you
said too. But I look, I think we're called to
different things in different seasons.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yea, lle you know. And I was in.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Broadcasting for over twenty years and I was faced with
this decision should I take the safe route and take
another job in television news, which was expected?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Right? That was the safe choice that I'd.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Worked in television news for over twenty.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Years, or do I go for this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Thing that's been like burning in my spirit for a
really long time, and that is to advocate for mothers
in the workplace. I'm a mother of three, I've always worked,
and I always felt that tension being a working mom,
just being a mom in general, not feeling valued. Motherhood
is scrutinized and punished instead of celebrated. Often in America
(04:01):
we have to choose between working and mommying. We carry
tremendous amounts of mob guilt and we're burnt out and
just this never ending tension of feeling also like we're
never quite nailing it. And then there's gender pay disparity
and a lot of inequities, and so look, I think
it started for the birth of my third child. And
I had returned to work at Good Morning America, and
(04:24):
I got it was my first day back, y'all from
maternity leave. And I got an email from an executive
and the email said, not your best. Look, Oh, this
was my first day back from maternity leave, and of
course I'm not feeling so great.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And I read that email and.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I responded to it and I said, you know, I
just it's my first day back from maternity leave. I'm
already not feeling so great about myself. If you could
give me a little grace, that would be appreciated.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And it was really that. It was in that moment.
I was hurt at first, and then I got really.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Angry because why is motherhood not celebrated. I just furthered society,
and yet I'm being held to this unrealistic, unsustainable standard.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So that kind of like that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
It was that moment that really lit the fire. And
then just my experience culminated with the experience of so
many other mothers in the workplace. I've heard hundreds of stories.
It just set me on this journey to change the
game for working moms.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Wow, that is so incredible, so relatable. I think no
matter what profession you're in, whether you're a checkout clerk
at the supermarket, or you're a teacher or a social
worker or on Good Morning America, I think that's so relatable.
Going back to work after you give birth and just
feeling like you're not doing good enough and someone makes
(05:41):
a comment that completely throws you off and it makes
you check in with yourself. Am I going to accept this.
Am I going to respond like you did standing up
for yourself, empowering yourself and saying give me, give me
a little bit of grace. I just bruthed a human
being into this world, right, Or are you going to
be down on yourself and beat yourself up, which so
(06:02):
many women do.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Absolutely, there's not a lot of support for motherhood in
the United States, and it's really not celebrated.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
We're not valued, and.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
We're scrutinized, and we're paid less and we're scrutinized more.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And I just want to change that because.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think, Look, I don't think you have to have
a child in order to fulfill your calling as a woman,
but I think it is one of the highest callings
that a woman is called to, is motherhood. And if
we don't have children, we don't have a society. That's
just the reality of it. So celebrate us, don't punish
us for doing something that's actually furthering and benefiting society.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
A men's sister, don't.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Get me going, alle, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Get you going. We want to hear it. So I'm wondering,
I'm I think I could probably put my own narrative
to this. But what was for you behind the name Carrie?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Okay, yes, So look going back to that moment where
I'm like, I've got these two divergent paths. Do I
continue in TV news or do I go for this thing?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm not a founder. I don't
know anything about starting a company. But I love to
champion people and I like to ask questions and I'm
inherently curious and I get the job done and I'm
really proactive.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And that maybe a good broadcaster.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So I just I had to press into my fear
and go for this and empty my retirement savings.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Like I'm all in.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
But once I decided to go for this, we were
I was. I remember just sitting in the living room
of my home. I didn't hire a big marketing firm
or a branding firm to come up.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
With a name.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It literally just came to me. You birthed it, Yeah,
I birthed it. Yes, it was the easiest birth that
I've had, the most painless birth, I would say, But
it was just kind of a placeholder. I'm like, I
have to call it something, and I got Carrie. We
carry babies, but also we want to carry women through
(08:03):
this important time in their life and through these touch points.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Of their lives.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And you know, I'm a believer, I'm a Christian, and
also the Bible talks about carrying one another's burdens. Now,
Carrie is not a faith based organization. We are not
politically affiliated or motivated. We are united in the fact that,
you know, giving mothers the support that they need. And
that's something I think we can all agree on, regardless
of our faith background or our political affiliations. But Carrie,
(08:30):
we want to carry the burdens of mothers and we
want to carry them through these moments in life. And again,
it was just like a placeholder. We'll think of another
name and then it just kind of stuck and we're like,
it's a great So Carrie, there we go. My big
branding firm came up with it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You're hired, brilliant. It's I love everything that you just said.
Because I live in Israel, of course, where maybe you
could say we are the conflict center of the world,
and many people don't know this, but Israel has a
tiny population of only nine million citizens, and twenty percent
(09:06):
of those are minorities. Are non Jews, are Arabs or
Bedwins or Drews who have equal rights and are represented
in the government of Israel the same way, equal voting rights,
equal education, etc. And on a day to day basis,
though you don't necessarily have so much to do with
one another, and always when you don't see one another,
that's what creates the conflict and animosity. And the time
(09:28):
that I felt most connected to my people, meaning all
the people of Israel, the Israeli Arabs and the Israeli
Drews and the Israeli Bedwins and the Israeli Christians was
when I gave birth and I was in the birthing
unit with everyone mothers, and when I was walking around
pushing the stroller in the park and there's an Arabic
woman pushing her baby who comes and asks me.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
To have an extra diaper. I ran out of diapers
ninety one for baby.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And of course suddenly you're just human, You're just mothers.
You just want the best for your children. So the
fact that Carrie Media, just like the International Fellowship of
Christians and Jews, is non political, and it's here to
really serve a mission that's bigger than any one religion,
one group of people is something that's so powerful because
(10:14):
if motherhood doesn't break down those barriers.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Absolutely, yeah, it's the common denominator, and I really believe.
And yes, you're in Israel in America and you know
this well too. I think so many of the issues
that we face here in America are in direct response
to how we value or don't value families and how
we treat mothers in the workplace. And I think we
(10:39):
all need to come together and unite to give working
mothers and mothers the support that they need and deserve. Again,
we're not politically affiliated. We're trying to find that common
ground and this I think, I really think it's something
that we can agree on. But you're right, motherhood is
like it is that common denominator, and were reunited in
that front.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
It levels the playing feel, It absolutely does. We're all tired,
we were all exhausted, we're all juggling, we're all a
little fried and burned out.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, but we're all in it together and I don't
think we'd have it any other way either.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So beautiful, beautiful, Well what has been? When I hear
you speak again, it's all so relatable, but let's bring
it down to a little bit more personal. Could you
think of one of a hard situation you already shared
with us your first day back from maternityle with your
third baby, when you were told it wasn't your best look.
(11:36):
And could you think of any other kind of situations
that you just felt worked so hard in juggling at all?
And I love mister Rogers, and mister Rodgers said, in
the hardest moments and the scariest moments, always look for
the helpers. And so could you think of some hard
situations that you went through and who are the helpers
in your life?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You know, it's interesting a lot of the helpers have
been male advocates in my life. And that's why I
don't think that we can really change the game for
working moms excluding men emasculating men.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
We need them. They're part of the solution and part of.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
They're part of the solution and part of the equation.
But I remember specifically, you know, and you can talk
about a lot of the issues that mothers are facing
specifically in the workforce, whether it's burnout or juggle or
the guilt or just you know, that conflict when you're
working you should be mommy.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
When you're mommy, you should be working.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
You know what that's like, right, And just that constant
tension and the mental juggle and the exhaustion and just
never feeling like you're enough. And you add on top
of that all the inequities. You know, you take a
break to stay home and be present with your children,
and you have a mommy gap and you have a
hard time getting back in the workforce. Or the gender
paid disparity, And one particularly.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Hurtful and.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Time in my career was when I found out that
there was a significant gender pay disparity. And it was
hurtful in the sense that I'm doing the same job
and I found out that I was making significantly less
than my male counterparts. And I wouldn't have known that.
Without I wouldn't have known that, that wouldn't have been discussed.
(13:25):
I wouldn't have had I could have had just anecdotal evidence,
but I actually had evidence because it was the men
in my life next to me, my co anchors and
my agent who is a male, who brought this up
to me and really advocated for me and advocated that
I should say something about it. So look that the
gender pay disparity is real. I know it doesn't affect
(13:46):
every woman, but mothers it affects disproportionally. We make seventy
cents on the dollar compared to fathers. Once we have children,
were passed over on promotions, were seen as less viable leaders,
whereas fathers when they become five, they're deemed a better
leader and more viable, and then they get paid more.
So it's this contradiction, right, and it's a reality for
(14:11):
a lot of mothers. We're paid less and we're scrutinized more.
And that number is even less for women of color
and minorities.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
And until we level.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
That playing field, and that's just one of the things
that we're fighting for, leveling the playing field, because the
reality is seventy percent of mothers at some point in
America will be the primary breadwinner of their kids' families.
And if we continue to pay mothers less, we will
continue that cycle of poverty.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Right, And it's no.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Wonder that so many mothers are forced out of the
workforce because they're just paid less. So it only makes
sense for the father to be the primary breadwinner. So
until we level that playing field, I think we'll continue
to see huge inequities. We'll continue to see huge, huge inequities.
But that particular time in my career was was very
(15:01):
hurtful because I just felt less then.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I felt like I.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Didn't have as much value and I knew as a mother,
being a mother inherently had equipped me with so many
more capabilities than I had prior to. I was more efficient,
I was a better leader, empathetic, compassionate, My emotional intelligence
went through the roof, Like, these are all things that
motherhood and parenthood equips us with once we become parents.
(15:27):
So don't treat me like a liability and a risk.
I actually have just become the ideal employee. But the
workplace also needs to work for me. So but yeah,
that was a particularly hurtful time, and it's a huge
issue that needs to be addressed because it continues a
cycle of poverty for women and children.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's a powerful thing that you're saying all around both
the statistics and data, and that kind of transformed into
the reality of continuing the cycle of poverty. It's interesting
because in my life I am so blessed with the
most supportive and encouraging husband who was a stay at
(16:09):
home dad until our youngest went into kindergarten when he
started his business a few years go. And think God
is now in the workforce and also just as on
the kids as I am.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
We that's awesome, you're great, split our schedule.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
We're a great team. But for those years that he
was home with the children, it was such a kind
of out of ordinary experience, and it wasn't something that
was always celebrated or appreciated within society. And so that idea.
I remember one time someone came over and said, wow,
(16:42):
your husband helps with the laundry. That's incredible, And my
husband said, yeah, and my wife wakes up all night
with the babies to nurse them and then goes to
work all day and we split things around here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I love him for that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, but it's such a lonely voice so often, and
that the more we can integrate the voice of men
who recognize the contributions that women have both at home
and in the workforce, and how we can bring equality
to that, and how I think the only way that
that could happen is also the more the more that
(17:18):
we accept and normalize men being involved in household responsibilities
as well.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I completely agree with you and so I have the
book that's come out. You don't have to carry it all.
Ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward.
And I have an entire chapter dedicated to inviting men
into the conversation. And we have to remember that men
are already entering this conversation feeling intimidated and less than
(17:46):
and they're also subject to a patriarchal society that has
told them your only job is to provide for your family,
and if you don't do that, you're a failure.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And so.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Writing this book I've put on my recent arch had
I interviewed experts and some of the most pre eminent
thought leaders on this and it was so interesting. Yeaw
to do a deep dive into our history, American history,
but also comparing it to global history, and how it's
so different in America to be a working mother. It's
much harder to be a working mother and a mother
(18:18):
in America than in other countries because we just don't
have the support from society and culture.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Right. It's those attitudes.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's those attitudes like you just said, oh, well, you know, wow,
he's so involved, you know, and if I'm at work,
it's well, who's raising your children. So it's societal, it's cultural,
it's at a policy level.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Which I think are very connected because I think there
are societal attitudes transport.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
But I think just recognizing a inviting men into the conversation,
recognizing they're facing their own patriarchal issues of Look, we
don't want you involved in the home. We just want
you to bring home a paycheck. And if you don't
bring home a paycheck, you're a failure. I think one
of the greatest things that men can do, one of
the greatest ways they can advocate for their partners is
(19:11):
to take their paternity leave. And look, I know it's
paternity leave is not widely offered, but if companies started
offering paternity leave, what that does is right out of
the gate, Yael, It levels the playing field and it
says that this is a partnership, we are raising this
child together. The mother doesn't become the automatic default for everything.
Out of the gate, right, So I think that's one
(19:32):
of the greats When men say what can I do,
one of the first things I'm like, take your paternity leave,
take all of it.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I write about this story in the book.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
One of my friends went on maternity leave and her husband.
She works here in America, her husband works for a
French company, and so she actually had to go back
to work before he.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Did, and his paternity leave was six months.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And she's like, I had no idea how much that
would completely change the game and have a parent because
it's right out of the gate, it was an equal distribution,
it was a partnership. We are working together, and you're
pushing back against these societal norms, and the reality is
that it's up to the mother to carry it all.
Now she has to be in charge of the home,
(20:15):
she has to work, she has to manage everything, she's
got to take care of the kids. Like, that's why
we burn out because we don't have the support from society,
culture policy, right, we don't have that baked in, and
then we're expected here in America to carry it all,
and if we ask for how.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
We're either weak or we're a failure.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
So I'm a big believer in inviting men into the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
That's a big that's a big burden to hold. I
know here in Israel it's a mandatory fourteen week fully
paid by the government, maternity leave and paternity so one
fourteen one or one or the other. So, okay, one
of the parents, you could split it, but at least
(21:00):
one of the parents has to be with the baby
up until fourteen weeks. And it's offered the same to
the woman or the man, to the mother or the father.
And if a place of employment allows the parents to
go back before this fourteen week period that both parents
are working, it's a felony on the workplace.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So they hold they hold the corporations liable.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
That's exactly. That is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
And some of the pushback that I get and that
I've received in writing this book, people will say, why
is it my responsibility? Why is it my responsibility to
support somebody else's child? And I get that to a
certain point, but ya yell, just from an economic standpoint,
if we have fewer children, then we'll have fewer laborers,
(21:48):
and if we have a labor shortage.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Then we have an economic crisis.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So like supporting families is not just the right thing
to do, it's good for the bottom line of the economy.
And if we're going to say that children are our
greatest natural resource, they either are or they aren't. We're
either going to invest in them or we're not going
to invest in them. And this attitude of not my kid,
not my problem. We have to have the mantra of
I am my brother's keeper. Children are our greatest natural resource.
(22:14):
They are the future of our country. Because they either
are our greatest natural resource or they're not.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
We either support.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Families and say we're about families or we're not. And again,
supporting families is good for it's good for the bottom
line of companies because it has proven, there's so much
research and data to back it up that if you
support families, be a policies, family friendly policies.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
They're very loyal to their employers.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And one of the greatest costs of doing business I
don't know in what it is in Israel, but one
of the greatest costs of doing business in America is
retention and employee turnover. And if you can lower that,
you've got a loyal employee who's not going to leave.
All you have to do is take care of them
and acknowledge that they are a parent first, and that's
not a burden, that's actually an investment in our country's future.
(23:01):
And those same policies that you set up for families.
Are still going to help the twenty five year old
single guy who has no interest in having a family.
It's going to create a culture, right that makes it
really tough to leave because it supports those rhythms and
the balance between your work life and your home life.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So, Paula, do you think that the work from home
working online has led to any substantial shift in this
recognition of the balance that you're talking about, a better
understanding from the corporate perspective of work from home, focus
on the family and integrating it into professional life.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I think it forced us to figure out. It forced
us to realize that we can make it work. No.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Look, there are anomaly industries like the healthcare industry of
you're a nurser, a doctor, or in the educational space,
if you're a professor or a teacher, like you can't
really work from home. You need to be you need
to be in the classroom.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Or you need to be in the medical space.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Right, But what it showed is that we can get
the job done anywhere. And employees overwhelmingly, there was a
Wall Street Journal article written not long ago, but overwhelmingly
ninety five percent of employees are looking for flexible hours,
and then seventy percent or more are looking for flexible
(24:27):
location that doesn't really cost much from the employer, right,
it's just saying, we're going to give you the flexibility
to get the job done when and where you can
get it done, and we're going to measure the measurables.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
It's a way to.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Incentivize your employees. It's what they want now, and companies
that don't, and companies that don't acknowledge this, they're going
to get left in the dust because people are looking
for more. They're looking for rhythms that create a healthy
balance between work life and home life. What the pandemic did,
of course, it forced us all to assess, is this
(25:05):
what I really want out of life? And if not,
let's change it. Right, So, I think it really empowered
the employee, but it also proved to the employer that
we can get the job done and you don't have
to hold us to these traditional standards nine to five.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Right. And there's been so many.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Case studies and pilot programs in the United States and
the UK around the world that are testing out this
four day work week or thirty five hour work week,
and they're finding that productivity is actually up right, and
employer retention is up and you're not getting less out
of your employee, You're actually getting more out of your employee.
(25:45):
So take care of your employees. They're going to take
care of you.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Wow. Wow. As the blessed leader of the Fellowship who
has for a few years been ranked on the one
hundred best or pop Best Nonprofit to work for in America,
we definitely follow that policy. We definitely followed that policy.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Can I say, yeah, Elle, you know I lay out
in the book Ways that that companies in society can
really support families and working mothers, And one of the
one of the main things we can do is by
having mothers at the table. I think motherhood it changes
us scientifically, it changes you, It changed you, It changed me.
(26:26):
Parenthood whether we whether our babies grew in our belly
or in our heart, parenthood changes us. We become and
I mentioned this earlier, more empathetic, We're much more efficient,
we're better leaders, better vision tasking, multitaskers, courageous, like there
are so many different capabilities that have expanded via parenthood.
Because we became a parent, We've actually become the ideal
(26:48):
employee and motherhood. We bring an intrinsic value and a
perspective to the table. I think mothers need to be
at the decision making tables. We need to be in
the boardrooms, we need to.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Be in those c suites.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like you, Mothers just have a different perspective on life.
We're proven to be better visionaries and leaders. Companies that
are led by women are typically more profitable. Employees would
rather work for women led companies, but the reality is
there are very few companies that are led by women.
So put mother I guarantee if you put mothers at
(27:22):
the helm, if you put us at the decision making
tables where those policies are created and instituted and implemented,
and if you put mothers in the boardroom. And I'm
not saying at the expense of anyone else, I'm just
making a case for mothers, right, I'm not making a
case against anyone else. But if you put us in
those decision making seats, I guarantee you we could change
(27:43):
the world.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Wow. Wow, Paula, you are a woman of faith, A
proud woman of faith. Yes, I am who and I
hear you speaking about so many concepts that are are
so biblical as far as not for the not against
the family, not forcing women to go out and work,
but of you have to be able to if you
(28:05):
choose in this modern world be a working woman, to
also focus on your family, to also hold your family,
to also love and be there for your family. Who
are some of the biblical s or one a biblical
woman who you learn from, who you take lessons from
and see yourself in.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, so I have to admit, y'aelle, one of the
greatest tensions that I have carried as a mother and
a working mother has been should I even be working
outside of the home? Isn't a good woman? Doesn't a
good mother stay home with her children and raise her children,
which already right there, those words can weaponize right as
(28:46):
if working mothers aren't raising their children too. So some
of the tension that I carried was because of the
faith circles that I grew up in, and often how
women were diminished in those faith circles. If you're not
a person of faith, maybe you're in a culture or
a tradition that also diminishes the roles of women. So
(29:07):
I had to really, I really wrestled with that, should.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I be working?
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Should I should you know. And I wasn't just working.
I was the primary breadwinner for our home for a
very long time. And I will tell you, probably the
woman that has provided me the greatest amount of freedom.
And I dedicated one full chapter of my book to this.
I interviewed the head of Proverbs thirty one Ministries, the
(29:34):
head of theology, as well as Lisa Turkhurst, who's the
president of Proverbs thirty one Ministries, because I think a
lot of women carry this tension, whether it comes from
their faith circles, or their traditions or their culture. And
the greatest example that I can come up with is
the Proverbs.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Thirty one woman.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And we always, you know, in the Christian space, and
I'm not sure about what it's like in the Jewish faith,
we idolized her and oh, she's this wonderful mother who's
up at dawn and taking care of her family and
like doing it all. But what we failed to remember
is that also the Proverbs thirty one woman, she bought
a field with her earnings. She was in the marketplace
(30:19):
negotiating when her husband was away at war. She was
handling everything, and again she bought a field with the
money that she had made and that's a that's a
verse that has that has provided me a lot of freedom.
I think that we were called back in Genesis to
co labor together, to co produce together, man and woman,
(30:41):
and there are multiple examples in the Old Testament. Yes, women,
you know, were diminished and didn't have the same amount
of rights. But but God continually and repeatedly uses used
women to further his message, and he the way that
God would would specifically honor women at a time when
it wasn't culturally popular.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But it's the proverb thirty one woman who really kind
of set me free.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Amazing, amazing, It's I think it's important to normalize these
concepts all around. So something that I also have tried
to do through my social media is to show how
it's also kind of on the woman not to hide
the time with her family that so often we feel
like we are good work or if all we do
(31:30):
is work. And I do my fair share of working,
thank God. I lead offices in Jerusalem, Chicago, Toronto, and Korea.
We helped over two million people last year and thirty
five different countries. But I make sure to always on
social media whether it's linked in a professional platform or
whatever platform it is, to always show those times that
I have with my children, with my husband, because it's
(31:53):
just as important to recognize it's not taking away from work,
it's not something to hide, it's not something but something
that we're able to juggle it all and we should
be proud of it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Absolutely, and I feel like it's my highest calling. Motherhood
is my highest calling, and if you make me choose,
I'm always going to choose my children. But one thing
I've learned, and I don't know if you experience any
mom guilt. Mom guilt is really an American thing. And
I think one other bit of freedom that I found
to also have these passions and pursuits outside of motherhood. Again,
(32:25):
motherhood is who I am, and I love my children.
They're always going to be my priority. But you look
in other countries and mothers often don't have a choice
but to work, and they take a great amount of
pride in helping to provide for the family and putting
food on the table. But because it's just part of
(32:45):
their culture that they don't have a choice but to work,
there are already policies set up. They get tremendous support
from society and from culture, and from policy makers and
from their family and from community. Because the attitude isn't
your kid, your problem. The attitude is we are all
part of raising the next generation. So there's this support
(33:08):
and this structure, and they're not expected to carry it all.
They don't try to carry it all. They have a
beautiful interdependence on one another. They may have family members
that live with them and help, and so they have
this beautiful community. They're not trying to be a mom
martyr like so often we are here in America and
we're trying to put it all on our back and
carry it all, and I don't want to ask for
(33:28):
help because I'm weak.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Or a failure.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So to see that global perspective and the global mother
and how she takes great pride, doesn't really have a
choice but to work, but takes great pride, but also
has an incredible support, and it's always a mom first,
and the family is valued. I think how we honor
and value families is the health of a nation.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Flat out, so beautiful, So beautiful. Paula, you have been
obviously sent for this calling. You can hear the passion
in your voice and in your heart. I think everyone
could hear a different message, whatever message they need to hear,
from all the different perspectives that you give all Well,
(34:09):
thank you so much, Paula. I could talk to you
for hours, but unfortunately, Yeah, I will have you back on.
There's so many more things that I want to hear about.
But I always end the time with my guest by
asking them to share a go to Bible verse. And
I know within so many struggles, I know that you
turn to God's word to your faith, you ordered stay strong.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Can you share with us a.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Go to Bible verse that helps you get through those
hard times?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And it comes from the Old Testament.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
It is Joshua one nine, and it's I think it's
been my life first for probably the last twenty five years,
because I am a person that really struggles with fear,
and fear can paralyze me from pursuing what I feel
God is calling me to do, and I think so
often it paralyzes us. But it's Joshua one nine and
it's have I not commanded you be strong and courageous,
(34:59):
don't be afraid, don't be discouraged, for the Lord your
God is with you.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Everywhere you go.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And that verse has provided me a so much freedom
and so much courage to step into my fear and
for us to step into our fears, because it is
it that verse normalizes fear, because it says, don't be
afraid and don't be discouraged. The Lord, your God is
with you. So it acknowledges you're gonna feel fear. But
I've commanded you to be strong and courageous. And once
(35:26):
you step into that fear and you follow that command
to press into the fear, God will be with you
everywhere you go. So it's it's it's for me, given
me permission to try new things in new season, to
step into my fear and to realize not only as
fear normal, I should expect it, I should anticipate it
when I when I'm stepping into a new space, but
(35:47):
also I can have a piece that I am supposed
to step into it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Like with Carrie Media, I had a piece to do this.
To pursue this was I scared. I don't know the.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
First thing about business and founding and entrepreneurship, but I
felt this call in my heart. Paula, have I not
commanded you be strong and courageous, don't be afraid, don't
be discouraged.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
For the Lord your God is with you everywhere you go.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
God has been with me everywhere I go, and He's
going to be with me in the next season of
calling and the next season of calling in the next chapter.
Right now, he has called me to champion mothers in
the workplace, to really get society to value motherhood and
start celebrating motherhood.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
And that's what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
So beautiful, thank you so much for joining us. And
I really hope that everyone gets a copy of your
book and learns how to integrate these lessons of not
needing to carry it all, finding a society, a partner, family,
a community to help carry the load, and it will
make it better for everyone. So thank you for your
(36:48):
life work.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Thank you, and thank you for your life work too,
and for being such a wonderful rule model to other
mothers and whether we're in the workforce or we choose
to home, thank you for just being such an advocate
and a beacon of light for motherhood.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
God bless you, my friend, God bad bless you.
Schalem. I'm from here in the Holy Land. I'm your host,
Y l XTEM, President and CEO of the International Fellowship
of Christians and Jews. I can't think of a better
person to have on the podcast today than my next guest,
Paula Ferris Woo. As many of you know, Paula is
the Emmy Award winning broadcast journalist who spent nine years
(00:31):
at ABC News, where she co anchored Good Morning America, Weekend,
co hosted The View, and launched Journeys of Faith with
Paula Ferris. Then in twenty eighteen, at the height of
her career, Paula pumped the brakes. Totally burned out and
feeling like she was failing both at work and at home.
She authored her first book, called Out Why I Traded
(00:53):
two dream jobs for a life of a true Calling.
After she lost her job at ABC News in twenty twenty,
Paula began a new chapter in her life, a mission
to support and give voice to the thirty five million
women in the workforce through her organization called Carrie Media.
Paula now devotes her many talents as a journalist and
(01:16):
an author to amplify the story of working moms to
cheer them on and to advocate for change for women
in the workplace. As a working mom myself balancing the
needs of my four children and husband with running the
largest nonprofit humanitarian organization in Israel, I know that I
have felt all the same emotions as every working mom, stress, exhaustion, burnout.
(01:41):
It's comforting to know that we are not alone and
that we have such a passionate advocate in Paula. So, Paula,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Thank you, Yaelle. It's so great to officially meet you.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh my gosh, I feel like we are sisters already
though we haven't technically met, But everything that I've read
about you and everything that I've been following your career,
it's all just so relatable and so Yeah, you've created
really this joint bond and sisterhood amongst all women, whether
they're working, staying at home, juggling a little bit of
(02:16):
all of it. You've given that voice that's so needed
in the world to give legitimacy to what women are
going through.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, it's something I'm very passionate about in this season,
and I feel really called to champion mothers and mothers
in the workplace in this season. So it's my honor
and I also feel like it's my responsibility.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
To do so wow, so beautiful and everything that you've
ever done, you've done with full passion, which is why
I think you've been successful in everything that you've tried
out and dabbled in throughout your career. You just have
taken off and become a Stark. So you're so passionate.
So now you're focusing on Carrie media, can you tell
us a little bit about the journey of how you
(02:57):
got there and why you felt at this point of
your life that was your calling.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, let me back it up. And you mentioned the passion.
I think I get that from my Sittu, which is
my Lebanese grandmother. Lebanese women are very fiery, so I
think I owe all my passion two of my sit
to thank you so too. Who oh, yes, thank you
said too. But I look, I think we're called to
different things in different seasons.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yea, lle you know. And I was in.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Broadcasting for over twenty years and I was faced with
this decision should I take the safe route and take
another job in television news, which was expected?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Right? That was the safe choice that I'd.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Worked in television news for over twenty.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Years, or do I go for this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Thing that's been like burning in my spirit for a
really long time, and that is to advocate for mothers
in the workplace. I'm a mother of three, I've always worked,
and I always felt that tension being a working mom,
just being a mom in general, not feeling valued. Motherhood
is scrutinized and punished instead of celebrated. Often in America
(04:01):
we have to choose between working and mommying. We carry
tremendous amounts of mob guilt and we're burnt out and
just this never ending tension of feeling also like we're
never quite nailing it. And then there's gender pay disparity
and a lot of inequities, and so look, I think
it started for the birth of my third child. And
I had returned to work at Good Morning America, and
(04:24):
I got it was my first day back, y'all from
maternity leave. And I got an email from an executive
and the email said, not your best. Look, Oh, this
was my first day back from maternity leave, and of
course I'm not feeling so great.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And I read that email and.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I responded to it and I said, you know, I
just it's my first day back from maternity leave. I'm
already not feeling so great about myself. If you could
give me a little grace, that would be appreciated.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And it was really that. It was in that moment.
I was hurt at first, and then I got really.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Angry because why is motherhood not celebrated. I just furthered society,
and yet I'm being held to this unrealistic, unsustainable standard.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So that kind of like that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
It was that moment that really lit the fire. And
then just my experience culminated with the experience of so
many other mothers in the workplace. I've heard hundreds of stories.
It just set me on this journey to change the
game for working moms.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Wow, that is so incredible, so relatable. I think no
matter what profession you're in, whether you're a checkout clerk
at the supermarket, or you're a teacher or a social
worker or on Good Morning America, I think that's so relatable.
Going back to work after you give birth and just
feeling like you're not doing good enough and someone makes
(05:41):
a comment that completely throws you off and it makes
you check in with yourself. Am I going to accept this.
Am I going to respond like you did standing up
for yourself, empowering yourself and saying give me, give me
a little bit of grace. I just bruthed a human
being into this world, right, Or are you going to
be down on yourself and beat yourself up, which so
(06:02):
many women do.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Absolutely, there's not a lot of support for motherhood in
the United States, and it's really not celebrated.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
We're not valued, and.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
We're scrutinized, and we're paid less and we're scrutinized more.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And I just want to change that because.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think, Look, I don't think you have to have
a child in order to fulfill your calling as a woman,
but I think it is one of the highest callings
that a woman is called to, is motherhood. And if
we don't have children, we don't have a society. That's
just the reality of it. So celebrate us, don't punish
us for doing something that's actually furthering and benefiting society.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
A men's sister, don't.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Get me going, alle, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Get you going. We want to hear it. So I'm wondering,
I'm I think I could probably put my own narrative
to this. But what was for you behind the name Carrie?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Okay, yes, So look going back to that moment where
I'm like, I've got these two divergent paths. Do I
continue in TV news or do I go for this thing?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm not a founder. I don't
know anything about starting a company. But I love to
champion people and I like to ask questions and I'm
inherently curious and I get the job done and I'm
really proactive.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And that maybe a good broadcaster.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So I just I had to press into my fear
and go for this and empty my retirement savings.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Like I'm all in.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
But once I decided to go for this, we were
I was. I remember just sitting in the living room
of my home. I didn't hire a big marketing firm
or a branding firm to come up.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
With a name.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It literally just came to me. You birthed it, Yeah,
I birthed it. Yes, it was the easiest birth that
I've had, the most painless birth, I would say, But
it was just kind of a placeholder. I'm like, I
have to call it something, and I got Carrie. We
carry babies, but also we want to carry women through
(08:03):
this important time in their life and through these touch points.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Of their lives.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And you know, I'm a believer, I'm a Christian, and
also the Bible talks about carrying one another's burdens. Now,
Carrie is not a faith based organization. We are not
politically affiliated or motivated. We are united in the fact that,
you know, giving mothers the support that they need. And
that's something I think we can all agree on, regardless
of our faith background or our political affiliations. But Carrie,
(08:30):
we want to carry the burdens of mothers and we
want to carry them through these moments in life. And again,
it was just like a placeholder. We'll think of another
name and then it just kind of stuck and we're like,
it's a great So Carrie, there we go. My big
branding firm came up with it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You're hired, brilliant. It's I love everything that you just said.
Because I live in Israel, of course, where maybe you
could say we are the conflict center of the world,
and many people don't know this, but Israel has a
tiny population of only nine million citizens, and twenty percent
(09:06):
of those are minorities. Are non Jews, are Arabs or
Bedwins or Drews who have equal rights and are represented
in the government of Israel the same way, equal voting rights,
equal education, etc. And on a day to day basis,
though you don't necessarily have so much to do with
one another, and always when you don't see one another,
that's what creates the conflict and animosity. And the time
(09:28):
that I felt most connected to my people, meaning all
the people of Israel, the Israeli Arabs and the Israeli
Drews and the Israeli Bedwins and the Israeli Christians was
when I gave birth and I was in the birthing
unit with everyone mothers, and when I was walking around
pushing the stroller in the park and there's an Arabic
woman pushing her baby who comes and asks me.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
To have an extra diaper. I ran out of diapers
ninety one for baby.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And of course suddenly you're just human, You're just mothers.
You just want the best for your children. So the
fact that Carrie Media, just like the International Fellowship of
Christians and Jews, is non political, and it's here to
really serve a mission that's bigger than any one religion,
one group of people is something that's so powerful because
(10:14):
if motherhood doesn't break down those barriers.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Absolutely, yeah, it's the common denominator, and I really believe.
And yes, you're in Israel in America and you know
this well too. I think so many of the issues
that we face here in America are in direct response
to how we value or don't value families and how
we treat mothers in the workplace. And I think we
(10:39):
all need to come together and unite to give working
mothers and mothers the support that they need and deserve. Again,
we're not politically affiliated. We're trying to find that common
ground and this I think, I really think it's something
that we can agree on. But you're right, motherhood is
like it is that common denominator, and were reunited in
that front.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
It levels the playing feel, It absolutely does. We're all tired,
we were all exhausted, we're all juggling, we're all a
little fried and burned out.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, but we're all in it together and I don't
think we'd have it any other way either.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So beautiful, beautiful, Well what has been? When I hear
you speak again, it's all so relatable, but let's bring
it down to a little bit more personal. Could you
think of one of a hard situation you already shared
with us your first day back from maternityle with your
third baby, when you were told it wasn't your best look.
(11:36):
And could you think of any other kind of situations
that you just felt worked so hard in juggling at all?
And I love mister Rogers, and mister Rodgers said, in
the hardest moments and the scariest moments, always look for
the helpers. And so could you think of some hard
situations that you went through and who are the helpers
in your life?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You know, it's interesting a lot of the helpers have
been male advocates in my life. And that's why I
don't think that we can really change the game for
working moms excluding men emasculating men.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
We need them. They're part of the solution and part of.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
They're part of the solution and part of the equation.
But I remember specifically, you know, and you can talk
about a lot of the issues that mothers are facing
specifically in the workforce, whether it's burnout or juggle or
the guilt or just you know, that conflict when you're
working you should be mommy.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
When you're mommy, you should be working.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
You know what that's like, right, And just that constant
tension and the mental juggle and the exhaustion and just
never feeling like you're enough. And you add on top
of that all the inequities. You know, you take a
break to stay home and be present with your children,
and you have a mommy gap and you have a
hard time getting back in the workforce. Or the gender
paid disparity, And one particularly.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Hurtful and.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Time in my career was when I found out that
there was a significant gender pay disparity. And it was
hurtful in the sense that I'm doing the same job
and I found out that I was making significantly less
than my male counterparts. And I wouldn't have known that.
Without I wouldn't have known that, that wouldn't have been discussed.
(13:25):
I wouldn't have had I could have had just anecdotal evidence,
but I actually had evidence because it was the men
in my life next to me, my co anchors and
my agent who is a male, who brought this up
to me and really advocated for me and advocated that
I should say something about it. So look that the
gender pay disparity is real. I know it doesn't affect
(13:46):
every woman, but mothers it affects disproportionally. We make seventy
cents on the dollar compared to fathers. Once we have children,
were passed over on promotions, were seen as less viable leaders,
whereas fathers when they become five, they're deemed a better
leader and more viable, and then they get paid more.
So it's this contradiction, right, and it's a reality for
(14:11):
a lot of mothers. We're paid less and we're scrutinized more.
And that number is even less for women of color
and minorities.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
And until we level.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
That playing field, and that's just one of the things
that we're fighting for, leveling the playing field, because the
reality is seventy percent of mothers at some point in
America will be the primary breadwinner of their kids' families.
And if we continue to pay mothers less, we will
continue that cycle of poverty.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Right, And it's no.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Wonder that so many mothers are forced out of the
workforce because they're just paid less. So it only makes
sense for the father to be the primary breadwinner. So
until we level that playing field, I think we'll continue
to see huge inequities. We'll continue to see huge, huge inequities.
But that particular time in my career was was very
(15:01):
hurtful because I just felt less then.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I felt like I.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Didn't have as much value and I knew as a mother,
being a mother inherently had equipped me with so many
more capabilities than I had prior to. I was more efficient,
I was a better leader, empathetic, compassionate, My emotional intelligence
went through the roof, Like, these are all things that
motherhood and parenthood equips us with once we become parents.
(15:27):
So don't treat me like a liability and a risk.
I actually have just become the ideal employee. But the
workplace also needs to work for me. So but yeah,
that was a particularly hurtful time, and it's a huge
issue that needs to be addressed because it continues a
cycle of poverty for women and children.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's a powerful thing that you're saying all around both
the statistics and data, and that kind of transformed into
the reality of continuing the cycle of poverty. It's interesting
because in my life I am so blessed with the
most supportive and encouraging husband who was a stay at
(16:09):
home dad until our youngest went into kindergarten when he
started his business a few years go. And think God
is now in the workforce and also just as on
the kids as I am.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
We that's awesome, you're great, split our schedule.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
We're a great team. But for those years that he
was home with the children, it was such a kind
of out of ordinary experience, and it wasn't something that
was always celebrated or appreciated within society. And so that idea.
I remember one time someone came over and said, wow,
(16:42):
your husband helps with the laundry. That's incredible, And my
husband said, yeah, and my wife wakes up all night
with the babies to nurse them and then goes to
work all day and we split things around here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I love him for that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, but it's such a lonely voice so often, and
that the more we can integrate the voice of men
who recognize the contributions that women have both at home
and in the workforce, and how we can bring equality
to that, and how I think the only way that
that could happen is also the more the more that
(17:18):
we accept and normalize men being involved in household responsibilities
as well.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I completely agree with you and so I have the
book that's come out. You don't have to carry it all.
Ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward.
And I have an entire chapter dedicated to inviting men
into the conversation. And we have to remember that men
are already entering this conversation feeling intimidated and less than
(17:46):
and they're also subject to a patriarchal society that has
told them your only job is to provide for your family,
and if you don't do that, you're a failure.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And so.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Writing this book I've put on my recent arch had
I interviewed experts and some of the most pre eminent
thought leaders on this and it was so interesting. Yeaw
to do a deep dive into our history, American history,
but also comparing it to global history, and how it's
so different in America to be a working mother. It's
much harder to be a working mother and a mother
(18:18):
in America than in other countries because we just don't
have the support from society and culture.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Right. It's those attitudes.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's those attitudes like you just said, oh, well, you know, wow,
he's so involved, you know, and if I'm at work,
it's well, who's raising your children. So it's societal, it's cultural,
it's at a policy level.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Which I think are very connected because I think there
are societal attitudes transport.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
But I think just recognizing a inviting men into the conversation,
recognizing they're facing their own patriarchal issues of Look, we
don't want you involved in the home. We just want
you to bring home a paycheck. And if you don't
bring home a paycheck, you're a failure. I think one
of the greatest things that men can do, one of
the greatest ways they can advocate for their partners is
(19:11):
to take their paternity leave. And look, I know it's
paternity leave is not widely offered, but if companies started
offering paternity leave, what that does is right out of
the gate, Yael, It levels the playing field and it
says that this is a partnership, we are raising this
child together. The mother doesn't become the automatic default for everything.
Out of the gate, right, So I think that's one
(19:32):
of the greats When men say what can I do,
one of the first things I'm like, take your paternity leave,
take all of it.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I write about this story in the book.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
One of my friends went on maternity leave and her husband.
She works here in America, her husband works for a
French company, and so she actually had to go back
to work before he.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Did, and his paternity leave was six months.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And she's like, I had no idea how much that
would completely change the game and have a parent because
it's right out of the gate, it was an equal distribution,
it was a partnership. We are working together, and you're
pushing back against these societal norms, and the reality is
that it's up to the mother to carry it all.
Now she has to be in charge of the home,
(20:15):
she has to work, she has to manage everything, she's
got to take care of the kids. Like, that's why
we burn out because we don't have the support from society,
culture policy, right, we don't have that baked in, and
then we're expected here in America to carry it all,
and if we ask for how.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
We're either weak or we're a failure.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
So I'm a big believer in inviting men into the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
That's a big that's a big burden to hold. I
know here in Israel it's a mandatory fourteen week fully
paid by the government, maternity leave and paternity so one
fourteen one or one or the other. So, okay, one
of the parents, you could split it, but at least
(21:00):
one of the parents has to be with the baby
up until fourteen weeks. And it's offered the same to
the woman or the man, to the mother or the father.
And if a place of employment allows the parents to
go back before this fourteen week period that both parents
are working, it's a felony on the workplace.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So they hold they hold the corporations liable.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
That's exactly. That is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
And some of the pushback that I get and that
I've received in writing this book, people will say, why
is it my responsibility? Why is it my responsibility to
support somebody else's child? And I get that to a
certain point, but ya yell, just from an economic standpoint,
if we have fewer children, then we'll have fewer laborers,
(21:48):
and if we have a labor shortage.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Then we have an economic crisis.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So like supporting families is not just the right thing
to do, it's good for the bottom line of the economy.
And if we're going to say that children are our
greatest natural resource, they either are or they aren't. We're
either going to invest in them or we're not going
to invest in them. And this attitude of not my kid,
not my problem. We have to have the mantra of
I am my brother's keeper. Children are our greatest natural resource.
(22:14):
They are the future of our country. Because they either
are our greatest natural resource or they're not.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
We either support.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Families and say we're about families or we're not. And again,
supporting families is good for it's good for the bottom
line of companies because it has proven, there's so much
research and data to back it up that if you
support families, be a policies, family friendly policies.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
They're very loyal to their employers.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And one of the greatest costs of doing business I
don't know in what it is in Israel, but one
of the greatest costs of doing business in America is
retention and employee turnover. And if you can lower that,
you've got a loyal employee who's not going to leave.
All you have to do is take care of them
and acknowledge that they are a parent first, and that's
not a burden, that's actually an investment in our country's future.
(23:01):
And those same policies that you set up for families.
Are still going to help the twenty five year old
single guy who has no interest in having a family.
It's going to create a culture, right that makes it
really tough to leave because it supports those rhythms and
the balance between your work life and your home life.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So, Paula, do you think that the work from home
working online has led to any substantial shift in this
recognition of the balance that you're talking about, a better
understanding from the corporate perspective of work from home, focus
on the family and integrating it into professional life.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I think it forced us to figure out. It forced
us to realize that we can make it work. No.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Look, there are anomaly industries like the healthcare industry of
you're a nurser, a doctor, or in the educational space,
if you're a professor or a teacher, like you can't
really work from home. You need to be you need
to be in the classroom.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Or you need to be in the medical space.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Right, But what it showed is that we can get
the job done anywhere. And employees overwhelmingly, there was a
Wall Street Journal article written not long ago, but overwhelmingly
ninety five percent of employees are looking for flexible hours,
and then seventy percent or more are looking for flexible
(24:27):
location that doesn't really cost much from the employer, right,
it's just saying, we're going to give you the flexibility
to get the job done when and where you can
get it done, and we're going to measure the measurables.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
It's a way to.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Incentivize your employees. It's what they want now, and companies
that don't, and companies that don't acknowledge this, they're going
to get left in the dust because people are looking
for more. They're looking for rhythms that create a healthy
balance between work life and home life. What the pandemic did,
of course, it forced us all to assess, is this
(25:05):
what I really want out of life? And if not,
let's change it. Right, So, I think it really empowered
the employee, but it also proved to the employer that
we can get the job done and you don't have
to hold us to these traditional standards nine to five.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Right. And there's been so many.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Case studies and pilot programs in the United States and
the UK around the world that are testing out this
four day work week or thirty five hour work week,
and they're finding that productivity is actually up right, and
employer retention is up and you're not getting less out
of your employee, You're actually getting more out of your employee.
(25:45):
So take care of your employees. They're going to take
care of you.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Wow. Wow. As the blessed leader of the Fellowship who
has for a few years been ranked on the one
hundred best or pop Best Nonprofit to work for in America,
we definitely follow that policy. We definitely followed that policy.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Can I say, yeah, Elle, you know I lay out
in the book Ways that that companies in society can
really support families and working mothers, And one of the
one of the main things we can do is by
having mothers at the table. I think motherhood it changes
us scientifically, it changes you, It changed you, It changed me.
(26:26):
Parenthood whether we whether our babies grew in our belly
or in our heart, parenthood changes us. We become and
I mentioned this earlier, more empathetic, We're much more efficient,
we're better leaders, better vision tasking, multitaskers, courageous, like there
are so many different capabilities that have expanded via parenthood.
Because we became a parent, We've actually become the ideal
(26:48):
employee and motherhood. We bring an intrinsic value and a
perspective to the table. I think mothers need to be
at the decision making tables. We need to be in
the boardrooms, we need to.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Be in those c suites.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like you, Mothers just have a different perspective on life.
We're proven to be better visionaries and leaders. Companies that
are led by women are typically more profitable. Employees would
rather work for women led companies, but the reality is
there are very few companies that are led by women.
So put mother I guarantee if you put mothers at
(27:22):
the helm, if you put us at the decision making
tables where those policies are created and instituted and implemented,
and if you put mothers in the boardroom. And I'm
not saying at the expense of anyone else, I'm just
making a case for mothers, right, I'm not making a
case against anyone else. But if you put us in
those decision making seats, I guarantee you we could change
(27:43):
the world.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Wow. Wow, Paula, you are a woman of faith, A
proud woman of faith. Yes, I am who and I
hear you speaking about so many concepts that are are
so biblical as far as not for the not against
the family, not forcing women to go out and work,
but of you have to be able to if you
(28:05):
choose in this modern world be a working woman, to
also focus on your family, to also hold your family,
to also love and be there for your family. Who
are some of the biblical s or one a biblical
woman who you learn from, who you take lessons from
and see yourself in.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, so I have to admit, y'aelle, one of the
greatest tensions that I have carried as a mother and
a working mother has been should I even be working
outside of the home? Isn't a good woman? Doesn't a
good mother stay home with her children and raise her children,
which already right there, those words can weaponize right as
(28:46):
if working mothers aren't raising their children too. So some
of the tension that I carried was because of the
faith circles that I grew up in, and often how
women were diminished in those faith circles. If you're not
a person of faith, maybe you're in a culture or
a tradition that also diminishes the roles of women. So
(29:07):
I had to really, I really wrestled with that, should.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I be working?
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Should I should you know. And I wasn't just working.
I was the primary breadwinner for our home for a
very long time. And I will tell you, probably the
woman that has provided me the greatest amount of freedom.
And I dedicated one full chapter of my book to this.
I interviewed the head of Proverbs thirty one Ministries, the
(29:34):
head of theology, as well as Lisa Turkhurst, who's the
president of Proverbs thirty one Ministries, because I think a
lot of women carry this tension, whether it comes from
their faith circles, or their traditions or their culture. And
the greatest example that I can come up with is
the Proverbs.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Thirty one woman.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And we always, you know, in the Christian space, and
I'm not sure about what it's like in the Jewish faith,
we idolized her and oh, she's this wonderful mother who's
up at dawn and taking care of her family and
like doing it all. But what we failed to remember
is that also the Proverbs thirty one woman, she bought
a field with her earnings. She was in the marketplace
(30:19):
negotiating when her husband was away at war. She was
handling everything, and again she bought a field with the
money that she had made and that's a that's a
verse that has that has provided me a lot of freedom.
I think that we were called back in Genesis to
co labor together, to co produce together, man and woman,
(30:41):
and there are multiple examples in the Old Testament. Yes, women,
you know, were diminished and didn't have the same amount
of rights. But but God continually and repeatedly uses used
women to further his message, and he the way that
God would would specifically honor women at a time when
it wasn't culturally popular.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But it's the proverb thirty one woman who really kind
of set me free.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Amazing, amazing, It's I think it's important to normalize these
concepts all around. So something that I also have tried
to do through my social media is to show how
it's also kind of on the woman not to hide
the time with her family that so often we feel
like we are good work or if all we do
(31:30):
is work. And I do my fair share of working,
thank God. I lead offices in Jerusalem, Chicago, Toronto, and Korea.
We helped over two million people last year and thirty
five different countries. But I make sure to always on
social media whether it's linked in a professional platform or
whatever platform it is, to always show those times that
I have with my children, with my husband, because it's
(31:53):
just as important to recognize it's not taking away from work,
it's not something to hide, it's not something but something
that we're able to juggle it all and we should
be proud of it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Absolutely, and I feel like it's my highest calling. Motherhood
is my highest calling, and if you make me choose,
I'm always going to choose my children. But one thing
I've learned, and I don't know if you experience any
mom guilt. Mom guilt is really an American thing. And
I think one other bit of freedom that I found
to also have these passions and pursuits outside of motherhood. Again,
(32:25):
motherhood is who I am, and I love my children.
They're always going to be my priority. But you look
in other countries and mothers often don't have a choice
but to work, and they take a great amount of
pride in helping to provide for the family and putting
food on the table. But because it's just part of
(32:45):
their culture that they don't have a choice but to work,
there are already policies set up. They get tremendous support
from society and from culture, and from policy makers and
from their family and from community. Because the attitude isn't
your kid, your problem. The attitude is we are all
part of raising the next generation. So there's this support
(33:08):
and this structure, and they're not expected to carry it all.
They don't try to carry it all. They have a
beautiful interdependence on one another. They may have family members
that live with them and help, and so they have
this beautiful community. They're not trying to be a mom
martyr like so often we are here in America and
we're trying to put it all on our back and
carry it all, and I don't want to ask for
(33:28):
help because I'm weak.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Or a failure.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So to see that global perspective and the global mother
and how she takes great pride, doesn't really have a
choice but to work, but takes great pride, but also
has an incredible support, and it's always a mom first,
and the family is valued. I think how we honor
and value families is the health of a nation.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Flat out, so beautiful, So beautiful. Paula, you have been
obviously sent for this calling. You can hear the passion
in your voice and in your heart. I think everyone
could hear a different message, whatever message they need to hear,
from all the different perspectives that you give all Well,
(34:09):
thank you so much, Paula. I could talk to you
for hours, but unfortunately, Yeah, I will have you back on.
There's so many more things that I want to hear about.
But I always end the time with my guest by
asking them to share a go to Bible verse. And
I know within so many struggles, I know that you
turn to God's word to your faith, you ordered stay strong.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Can you share with us a.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Go to Bible verse that helps you get through those
hard times?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And it comes from the Old Testament.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
It is Joshua one nine, and it's I think it's
been my life first for probably the last twenty five years,
because I am a person that really struggles with fear,
and fear can paralyze me from pursuing what I feel
God is calling me to do, and I think so
often it paralyzes us. But it's Joshua one nine and
it's have I not commanded you be strong and courageous,
(34:59):
don't be afraid, don't be discouraged, for the Lord your
God is with you.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Everywhere you go.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And that verse has provided me a so much freedom
and so much courage to step into my fear and
for us to step into our fears, because it is
it that verse normalizes fear, because it says, don't be
afraid and don't be discouraged. The Lord, your God is
with you. So it acknowledges you're gonna feel fear. But
I've commanded you to be strong and courageous. And once
(35:26):
you step into that fear and you follow that command
to press into the fear, God will be with you
everywhere you go. So it's it's it's for me, given
me permission to try new things in new season, to
step into my fear and to realize not only as
fear normal, I should expect it, I should anticipate it
when I when I'm stepping into a new space, but
(35:47):
also I can have a piece that I am supposed
to step into it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Like with Carrie Media, I had a piece to do this.
To pursue this was I scared. I don't know the.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
First thing about business and founding and entrepreneurship, but I
felt this call in my heart. Paula, have I not
commanded you be strong and courageous, don't be afraid, don't
be discouraged.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
For the Lord your God is with you everywhere you go.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
God has been with me everywhere I go, and He's
going to be with me in the next season of
calling and the next season of calling in the next chapter.
Right now, he has called me to champion mothers in
the workplace, to really get society to value motherhood and
start celebrating motherhood.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
And that's what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
So beautiful, thank you so much for joining us. And
I really hope that everyone gets a copy of your
book and learns how to integrate these lessons of not
needing to carry it all, finding a society, a partner, family,
a community to help carry the load, and it will
make it better for everyone. So thank you for your
(36:48):
life work.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Thank you, and thank you for your life work too,
and for being such a wonderful rule model to other
mothers and whether we're in the workforce or we choose
to home, thank you for just being such an advocate
and a beacon of light for motherhood.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
God bless you, my friend, God bad bless you.
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