Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Shalem, and welcome to nourish your biblical roots conversations with
y Elle. I'm your host, Yea. L. Exstein, President and
CEO of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Today's
guest is a Christian friend of the Jewish people and
of Israel. At a time when we certainly need friends.
Bishop E. W. Jackson has been such a friend for decades,
(00:20):
standing for America and Israel and so strongly for faith
and for freedom. A Protestant minister and attorney with his
degree from Harvard Law School, and a former United States Marine,
Bishop Jackson has also been a presidential candidate and a
candidate for the US Senate. The pastor of Exodus Faith
(00:40):
Ministries in Chesapeake, Virginia, he is also the founder of
Stand Staying true to America's national destiny, fighting for a
culture of faith, family, and freedom. As I said, Israel
and the Jewish people need true friends specifically in this moment,
and Bishop E. W. Jackson is a Christian friend, an
American friend, a longtime friend of the Fellowship, and a
(01:04):
friend who stands for our shared faith and values. I
have spoken to prime ministers, leaders, opposition members, and I
have not I don't remember a time that I've been
so excited for a conversation. So welcome, welcome, welcome to
my podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, well, thank you so much. I'm honored to be
with you. Of course, I've watched you for years on television.
My wife and I pray for and support the International
Fellowship of Christians and Jews, and it is really an
honor to have an opportunity to talk to you, and
of course to all of our friends out there, all
the friends of Israel out there.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, you are incredible. You are an inspiration to so
many people, including myself, and I've been following for so long.
How you are unapologetic in the values that you stand
for and what you know is truth and your faith,
and you've always been so brave to go against the
tide to stand with what I believe, what you believe
are the godly values that we are called to defend.
(02:02):
And so I want to learn a little bit about
you about your early childhood, how your early life shaped
you and your faith. Could you tell us a little
bit about your family and your upbringing.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure, Yeah, I began in ways that didn't seem auspicious,
at least from the outside looking in because I was
born into a broken home. I was in foster care
for the first ten years of my life, and my
father rescued me out of foster care at the age
of ten years old. And I learned something as I
reflected back on that, which is that the problem of Americans, minorities,
(02:36):
for example, the poor is really not that there are
people standing in the way of opportunity. It's that the
values and the vision that you need in order to
take advantage of the opportunities are there must be instilled
in you, and someone must give you a sense of hope.
And my dad really did that for me, and that's
what changed the trajectory of my life from being a
(02:57):
gang member at the age of ten to ultimately going
on to course to college and law school and practicing
law and being in ministry and the many other things
I've had an opportunity to do. And I say, I'm
not bragging on myself, but I brag on my dad
because families are still so critically important and fathers are
(03:17):
so critically important. And I brag on my country because,
in spite of what so many say, it is a
land of opportunity. And I really believe that I'm proved
positive of that.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Wow, Well, you've taken very hard steps to get to
where you are. Didn't come easy, not only because of
your childhood that gave you very few opportunities even though
you had those sparks of light of how important a
parent is, a father is in the life of his child.
But you worked hard yourself that no one else could
have done for you. You served in the Marines. How did
(03:51):
your service shape your understanding of so many of the
conflicts around the world, And what tools did it give
you personally that may you would even say is the
foundation of so much of your success in life.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, one of the things that taught me l is
that there's no freedom without sacrifice, there's no freedom without courage.
I wish we lived in a world in which we
beat our swords at the plowshares and our spears at
the pruning hooks, and nation did not lift up sword
against nation or study war anymore. But that's not the
world we live in. And if we're going to live
(04:27):
peacefully in this world, we must be prepared to defend freedom,
to defend our families, to defend our nation.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And the Marine Corps taught.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Me a sense of duty to America that I will
never ever forget. And really, frankly, my faith then taught
me a true love for our country as well as
for Israel as beacon lights of freedom and hope for
the entire world. I think that's one of the reasons
why the people who hate Israel tend to hate America
as well. I love both.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's incredible, and what you're saying is so personal for
me as well, as I have many nieces and nephews
right now serving in the Israeli Army on the front lines,
that I've friends who are on the front lines. We
know many people here unfortunately who have been killed defending Israel,
and my own daughter who in just a few months
(05:19):
will have her she'll be entered into the Israeli Army
at age eighteen. All children here have mandatory service. And
in Israel, just when you were talking and how you
wish for that day of the prophetic reality of peace,
but we're not there yet, so we have to defend freedom.
It reminds me of in Israel and every single ceremony
that I go to for my nieces and my nephews
(05:41):
and soon for my own children at the ceremony in
Israel by the Western Wall. The head of the army
goes to every single soldier and gives them two things,
a gun and a bible, and says, here's a gun,
here's a bible, and I pray you'll only need to
use one. That I think that is the idea of freedom,
(06:01):
that it's not free, and that we yearn for peace
and we yearn for security, just says says in the
scriptures Hachem Oslamalom, the Lord shows his strength, the Lord
blesses his people with peace. That only when you're able
to defend that freedom do you have any opportunity to
(06:22):
see peace. So that message is very personal for me
as I sit here in Israel under rocket attack. I've
spent half the day in bomb shelters with my children
as terrorists are launching rockets and trying to destroy that
peace and faith and security that Israel tries to spread
to the entire world, and instead it's this war against darkness.
(06:44):
So that was a long way of saying I appreciate
your service, I appreciate the message that you come out
of it with. And I think people who join specifically
the American Army and these armies of freedom recognize that
the ultimate value is peace, the ultimate prayer is peace.
But if we're not there defending that freedom, it will
(07:05):
be the darkness and the terrorists we are going to
take over.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I thank you and your family for service to Israel, because,
as you know, I really believe that the destiny of
Israel and America are intimately intertwined, and the same people
who want to destroy Israel would love to destroy America.
So your family and all of those Israelis who are
(07:31):
standing up for liberty or really standing up for liberty
not only for Israel, but really for liberty in America
and around the world, because I think that you really
cannot separate the two. So thank you for your service
to Israel. Thank you for your service in behalf of
America and the world.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Thank you so much. It's so inspiring to hear you
say that, because you don't hear enough people recognizing that. Yet,
people who are saying it very boldly and very clear
are actually the terrorists. You hear the head of Iran
saying that first they're going for the Saturday people, the Jews,
and then they're going for the Sunday people, the Christians
(08:13):
and you see the Rasabala terrorists and the Hutis and
all the terrorists across Middle East saying first we're going
for the little Satan, which is Israel, and then we're
going for the big Satan, which is America. So to
see such an influential and wise and faithful American recognize
we're in this together, I think more people need to
wake up to that before it's too late.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Well, you know, yeah, I said, the Maricops taught me
a duty to my country. But when I came to
understand that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,
and to understand his reality and his claim on us,
I fell in love with Israel and fell in love
with America because I realized that the Jewish people really
(09:00):
present one of the most persecuted and perhaps the most
persecuted group of people in the history of mankind, persecuted
pretty much every where they've ever been. And I really
believe that that's because they represent something that the world doesn't understand.
The world in these which is a sense of moral
(09:22):
clarity that has been received by them from Moses, a
sense of destiny which has been given to them by God.
And America, I really believe shares some of those same qualities.
And so for me, every Christian ought to be determined
(09:44):
to stand with Israel in these very, very dangerous and
difficult times. I mean to me, yeah, well it's biblical times, really,
because these efforts to destroy Israel to me, have biblical significance,
and every Christian ought to be standing with his rather
than with all the anti Semitic naysayers and haters who
(10:05):
are creating all these protests on our campuses and all
over the country. We ought to stand up boldly and forthrightly.
In fact, we have a batner in my church. Yeah,
all that says stand with Israel, and it's posted on
the wall of my church for all to see.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
So if you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Walk into my church and you have a problem with Israel,
you're going to probably turn right around and go right
back out the door, because we want to make clear
to everybody we believe that it's the obligation of every
Christian and every American for that matter, to stand with Israel.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Wow, well, you are not only brave, you are brilliant.
You received your law degree from Harvard. I hear in
your words this brilliant mixture of both faith, common values
and wisdom, and also deep education that is reserved for
only the brightest and only the best. How did your
(11:02):
education influence your faith and vice versa, And how did
your legal career shape your own ministry and the work
that you're part of. It's very rare to find someone
like you that has an expertise in all those areas.
How do you hold them together?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
One of the reasons why I love our country. I
love the United States of America is and Israel shares
the same quality.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
To me.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
The real mark of a great nation ya l is
the degree to which it affirms the dignity of every
human being. And we have an entire legal system. And
people criticize Israel, but Israel is the place where Palestinians
can live. And it doesn't matter what the color of.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Your skin is. Everyone can live in Israel.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Who's willing to can live in Israel in peace if
you are a citizen there. And America has created the
same kind of legal system where and we haven't always
done this perfectly, of course.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Because we're human beings. But I live in a nation.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Where my ancestors were slaves. But I live in a
nation that latest foundation on the principle that every single
human being is created equal in the sight of God.
And now I become heir to that legacy of liberty
and the affirmation of human dignity, that whether people agree
with me or not, they are still human beings that
(12:25):
deserve to be treated with human dignity. And to me,
my legal training helped me to understand that in a
way that I hadn't before, because I saw really the
brilliance and the inspiration of our founding fathers, who distrusted
power enough to limit the power of government, affirmed human
(12:47):
beings enough to say human beings are capable of managing
their own lives, and they don't need to be dictated
to day by day as to what they should say
and what they should think, and where they should go
and where they should live and where they should work.
I'll tell you that the affirmation of liberty that is
true for both countries. I just find it inspiring, and
(13:08):
I'm grateful every day to live in a nation of freedom.
And you know, I've been to Israel several times. I'm
looking to coming back again soon. But every time I
come to Israel, I feel that same sense of infra inspiration,
that same sense of affirmation, although sadly Israel is beset
all around by enemies who want to destroy the beautiful
(13:29):
country that's been created there.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's so sobering inspiring, and I keep on. I feel
like a broken record because everything you say, my heart
is just praise God for Visia. Praise God because there
are so few people who are both educated, faithful and
able to see what's happening, like you said it, something
Israel is very proud of.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
There you won't find one Jew living in Bethlehem, you
won't find one Jew living in Janine. You find one
Jewish person living in Gaza. Before this warna that we
have our soldiers there, But since two thousand and five,
you would have found one Jewish person in Gaza. And
there are two million non Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Drus Bedouin,
(14:15):
Christian in Israel, and this tiny country of only ten
million people, over twenty five percent of them are actually
not Jewish. And this is a reminder that Israel is
one Jewish country, with twenty two Arab countries in the
Arab Union, Israel's point four percent of the entire land
mass of the Middle East and ninety nine point six
(14:37):
percent our Arab blends, where seven million Jews in Israel
seven and a half million Jews in Israel were surrounded
by hundreds of millions of Muslims, many of them enemies.
And so it's a reminder that Israel cherishes that freedom
that America cherishes. We don't give citizenship to twenty five
percent of non Jews in the only Jewish country in
(14:59):
the entire world, because we're trying to appease anyone, but
because these are the faithful values of God. Equality. If
you want to live in peace, you are one of us,
just like the story of Ruth. You are my people.
Your God is my God, Your people are my people.
And so the fact they were able to see that,
it feels like Israel's always on the defense trying to
(15:20):
explain it, and people just don't want to see it.
They want to see Israel as the aggressor. They want
to see Israel as bad. They want to see Israel
as somehow bringing the instability to the world, when in reality,
if it weren't for Israel, you would have the radical
Ayatolahs who are trying to destroy freedom in power, and
(15:41):
they'd be directly going for Europe in America. So it's
very sobering, and I know that it's not an easy
position to take in many ways. Bishop, you're going against
the tide, and you're going against the trends. And like
you said, I can just envision it. In your church.
You have a big sign that says we stand with Israel.
They're not embarrassed of it, you don't hide it. Have
(16:03):
you and your church personally gotten any sort of has
anyone given you any trouble for standing with Israel?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Well? Sure, before I get to that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
One of the as you know, one of the many
slanders against Israel is to call it apartheid nation, this.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
On one of my trips to Israel, I had the
opportunity to meet many Ethiopian Jews that Israel had taken
extraordinary efforts to rescue out of Ethiopia. I just thought
it was a magnificent testament to again the commitment to
human dignity, but also the non racial nature of the
(16:47):
state of Israel, that they didn't care about the color
of the skin of these Jewish people. They cared that
they were Jews and they were in trouble, and they
again went to extraordinary efforts to rescue them. And I
met an of Ethiopian Jews when I was in Israel.
So these lies against Israel are they sickened me? Frankly? Yeah, Ell,
because say they're either born of just ignorance or just
(17:09):
hatred and anti Semitism, and it doesn't matter to people
what the facts are.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
I was thinking before we did this interview. Yeah, Elle,
I haven't heard.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It much lately, but you know, we used to repeat
whenever we talked about Israel and the persecution of the
Jewish people, never again, never again. We've forgotten that we
need to be reminded of that, that there was an
attempt to completely wipe out the Jewish people, and Israel
was born as a as a haven of rest, not
(17:44):
much rest going on right now, but a place of
peace and safety. It wasn't created as an aggression against anybody,
but as a place to which the Jewish people could repair,
having witnessed an attempt to destroy them, annihilate them from
(18:04):
the face of the earth. So, to be very honesty,
I don't care what people think. I don't care what
they think of me, and I don't care what they
want to do to me. Nothing is going to deter
me from standing with Israel. I am committed to laying
my life on the line to the extent that I
would be called upon to do so, to stand with
(18:25):
the Jewish people. I believe that that is my mandate
as a Christian, and that is my mandate as an American.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Wow, powerful words, Bishop Jackson, and you make so many
very important points. You know, the number of Jewish people
from before the Holocaust was still more than what we
are today. We still haven't made up those six million
Jews who are burned in gas chambers. And something we
say often in Israel is free Gaza. Just like the
(18:55):
anti Semites are saying, and as they're burning American and
israel flags are saying free Gaza and Isel, we say
free Gaza as well. We say free Gaza from Ramas,
because Ramas is holding the Palestinians hostage. Israel has repeatedly
reached out in peace trying to find agreements, begging them
to accept one of the agreements that we can finally
(19:17):
live in peace with one another. When Israel pulled down
in two thousand and five from the Gaza strip, it
was with the prayer there won't be one Jew left.
They could make it into a Singapore. They have no
excuse not to make it into a coastal enclave of
tourism and a dreamland, and instead they turned it into
one big terror country. But just as Israel is being
(19:39):
held hostage by these terrorists on our border, the Palestinian
people are being held hostage by Ramas, And just as
we are being held hostage by Rasbella terrorists on our border,
Lebanese people, many of them Christians, are being held hostage
by Rasbella as well. That it's an important reminder because
I think in this world of simplified slogans, people are
(20:03):
losing the nuance that is so critical to actually understand
what's happening. If you care about the Palestinian people, then
you'll want to eradicate Hamas. They're not good for the
Palestinian people. So everyone who's pretending to care about the
Palestinian people while standing up for Hamas is not understanding
what's happening here. And so America is lucky to have you.
(20:26):
America is lucky to have your wisdom, your leadership, your faith,
and I know you have millions of people who follow
your every word what you're doing, and you are a
brave and righteous role model for so many people. And
so I want to ask you one last question, maybe
the hardest and maybe the most important question there is
(20:47):
how can we better educate the young people, the next
generation in America so that they can be our allies
and understand this fight against hatred and we can return
to the place where the idea of freedom is valued,
(21:07):
is understood that it's not free, and that the next
generation will continue these American values of freedom, equality and
recognizing who their friends are.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, you know, I've said that there are many similarities
between America and Israel, and one of those similarities is
that it has taken courage to birth these nations. And yeah,
well there's no such thing as courage without conflict. And
I think part of the reason why a lot of
people don't speak up is that they are afraid of
(21:42):
the consequences. They're afraid of what people might say. And
I would charge every American and every Christian particularly to
just step up and speak up, regardless of what others
might think.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Don't mute yourself because.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
You think, well, they people might not like me if
I stand up for Israel.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I think it's got to be personal.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You know, when I first came to serve God. One
of the things he impressed upon me was that the
stewardship of my country was in my hands. Now, of
course I know that in single handedly I can't change
the deciny of America, so to speak. But it was
personal that I couldn't parted off on someone else to say, oh, well,
(22:27):
you know those people out there, they can do that.
I realized I had to take responsibility for myself, and
I would say the same thing to every Christian and
every American. Take responsibility yourself. Where you see people who
are misinformed and you see them espousing things that you
know are not true. Israel has done more to try
to limit civilian casualties than anything I think I've ever
(22:52):
witnessed in the history of warfare or read about. But
Hamas wants civilian careties because they don't care about human
life the way Israel does, and so they're willing to
sacrifice as many lives as they can so they can
use them as talking points. So this idea that somehow
(23:13):
Israel is engaged in bad behavior and prosecuting this war
in a way that it should be ashamed of, I
think quite the contrary. This war started when twelve hundred
innocent Jewish people were brutally attacked and murdered in a
surprise attack on October seventh, and Israel has a right
(23:35):
to stop those people who are committed to that kind
of activity from ever being able to do it again.
So I would say every person ought to take personal responsibility,
and you can start.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
There, Bishop Jackson. I can listen to you speak for hours,
and I have so much more that I want to
glean from your wisdom. So I'm going to have to
have you back, but I want to respect you time
and thank you for coming, and ask are there any
upcoming projects that you're excited about that you'd like to
share with us?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Well?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, Well, first of all, we do have stand with Israel,
and as you know, we've got a stand senior fellow
for our organization with Israel who is none other than
Pastor Roger Cheeks, and we're working closely with him to
celebrate a commemorator I shouldn't say celebrate, but to commemorate
what happened on October seventh, and helping him to reach
(24:30):
other churches in doing that. So that's the big project
that we're going right now. We've got going right now,
and I would encourage every Christian, every church to participate
in this effort again to make sure that we don't
forget why this war is going on in the Middle
East right now. It's not something that Israel precipitated. It's
(24:51):
something that Alma's precipitated.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Incredible that's on October seventh that we have hundreds of
churches who, instead of burn the Israeli flag like the
anti Semites are doing, they're planting twelve hundred flags in
their church yard to show we only stand with God,
and we stand America and Israel, Christians and Jews together.
And I can't think of a more holy, righteous and
(25:16):
powerful statement than that. Bishop Jackson, you are a light
to the world. We are all so grateful for everything
you do, everything you are, and everything that we are
able to learn from you. So thank you for being
such a proud American, such a proud supporter of Israel,
such an amazing friend to the Jewish people and to
(25:38):
the international Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And may God
bless you and your family penful just like you promised
in Genesis.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
God bless you, and God bless Israel. Amen. Amen, Thank
you
Shalem, and welcome to nourish your biblical roots conversations with
y Elle. I'm your host, Yea. L. Exstein, President and
CEO of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Today's
guest is a Christian friend of the Jewish people and
of Israel. At a time when we certainly need friends.
Bishop E. W. Jackson has been such a friend for decades,
(00:20):
standing for America and Israel and so strongly for faith
and for freedom. A Protestant minister and attorney with his
degree from Harvard Law School, and a former United States Marine,
Bishop Jackson has also been a presidential candidate and a
candidate for the US Senate. The pastor of Exodus Faith
(00:40):
Ministries in Chesapeake, Virginia, he is also the founder of
Stand Staying true to America's national destiny, fighting for a
culture of faith, family, and freedom. As I said, Israel
and the Jewish people need true friends specifically in this moment,
and Bishop E. W. Jackson is a Christian friend, an
American friend, a longtime friend of the Fellowship, and a
(01:04):
friend who stands for our shared faith and values. I
have spoken to prime ministers, leaders, opposition members, and I
have not I don't remember a time that I've been
so excited for a conversation. So welcome, welcome, welcome to
my podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, well, thank you so much. I'm honored to be
with you. Of course, I've watched you for years on television.
My wife and I pray for and support the International
Fellowship of Christians and Jews, and it is really an
honor to have an opportunity to talk to you, and
of course to all of our friends out there, all
the friends of Israel out there.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, you are incredible. You are an inspiration to so
many people, including myself, and I've been following for so long.
How you are unapologetic in the values that you stand
for and what you know is truth and your faith,
and you've always been so brave to go against the
tide to stand with what I believe, what you believe
are the godly values that we are called to defend.
(02:02):
And so I want to learn a little bit about
you about your early childhood, how your early life shaped
you and your faith. Could you tell us a little
bit about your family and your upbringing.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure, Yeah, I began in ways that didn't seem auspicious,
at least from the outside looking in because I was
born into a broken home. I was in foster care
for the first ten years of my life, and my
father rescued me out of foster care at the age
of ten years old. And I learned something as I
reflected back on that, which is that the problem of Americans, minorities,
(02:36):
for example, the poor is really not that there are
people standing in the way of opportunity. It's that the
values and the vision that you need in order to
take advantage of the opportunities are there must be instilled
in you, and someone must give you a sense of hope.
And my dad really did that for me, and that's
what changed the trajectory of my life from being a
(02:57):
gang member at the age of ten to ultimately going
on to course to college and law school and practicing
law and being in ministry and the many other things
I've had an opportunity to do. And I say, I'm
not bragging on myself, but I brag on my dad
because families are still so critically important and fathers are
(03:17):
so critically important. And I brag on my country because,
in spite of what so many say, it is a
land of opportunity. And I really believe that I'm proved
positive of that.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Wow, Well, you've taken very hard steps to get to
where you are. Didn't come easy, not only because of
your childhood that gave you very few opportunities even though
you had those sparks of light of how important a
parent is, a father is in the life of his child.
But you worked hard yourself that no one else could
have done for you. You served in the Marines. How did
(03:51):
your service shape your understanding of so many of the
conflicts around the world, And what tools did it give
you personally that may you would even say is the
foundation of so much of your success in life.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, one of the things that taught me l is
that there's no freedom without sacrifice, there's no freedom without courage.
I wish we lived in a world in which we
beat our swords at the plowshares and our spears at
the pruning hooks, and nation did not lift up sword
against nation or study war anymore. But that's not the
world we live in. And if we're going to live
(04:27):
peacefully in this world, we must be prepared to defend freedom,
to defend our families, to defend our nation.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And the Marine Corps taught.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Me a sense of duty to America that I will
never ever forget. And really, frankly, my faith then taught
me a true love for our country as well as
for Israel as beacon lights of freedom and hope for
the entire world. I think that's one of the reasons
why the people who hate Israel tend to hate America
as well. I love both.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's incredible, and what you're saying is so personal for
me as well, as I have many nieces and nephews
right now serving in the Israeli Army on the front lines,
that I've friends who are on the front lines. We
know many people here unfortunately who have been killed defending Israel,
and my own daughter who in just a few months
(05:19):
will have her she'll be entered into the Israeli Army
at age eighteen. All children here have mandatory service. And
in Israel, just when you were talking and how you
wish for that day of the prophetic reality of peace,
but we're not there yet, so we have to defend freedom.
It reminds me of in Israel and every single ceremony
that I go to for my nieces and my nephews
(05:41):
and soon for my own children at the ceremony in
Israel by the Western Wall. The head of the army
goes to every single soldier and gives them two things,
a gun and a bible, and says, here's a gun,
here's a bible, and I pray you'll only need to
use one. That I think that is the idea of freedom,
(06:01):
that it's not free, and that we yearn for peace
and we yearn for security, just says says in the
scriptures Hachem Oslamalom, the Lord shows his strength, the Lord
blesses his people with peace. That only when you're able
to defend that freedom do you have any opportunity to
(06:22):
see peace. So that message is very personal for me
as I sit here in Israel under rocket attack. I've
spent half the day in bomb shelters with my children
as terrorists are launching rockets and trying to destroy that
peace and faith and security that Israel tries to spread
to the entire world, and instead it's this war against darkness.
(06:44):
So that was a long way of saying I appreciate
your service, I appreciate the message that you come out
of it with. And I think people who join specifically
the American Army and these armies of freedom recognize that
the ultimate value is peace, the ultimate prayer is peace.
But if we're not there defending that freedom, it will
(07:05):
be the darkness and the terrorists we are going to
take over.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I thank you and your family for service to Israel, because,
as you know, I really believe that the destiny of
Israel and America are intimately intertwined, and the same people
who want to destroy Israel would love to destroy America.
So your family and all of those Israelis who are
(07:31):
standing up for liberty or really standing up for liberty
not only for Israel, but really for liberty in America
and around the world, because I think that you really
cannot separate the two. So thank you for your service
to Israel. Thank you for your service in behalf of
America and the world.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Thank you so much. It's so inspiring to hear you
say that, because you don't hear enough people recognizing that. Yet,
people who are saying it very boldly and very clear
are actually the terrorists. You hear the head of Iran
saying that first they're going for the Saturday people, the Jews,
and then they're going for the Sunday people, the Christians
(08:13):
and you see the Rasabala terrorists and the Hutis and
all the terrorists across Middle East saying first we're going
for the little Satan, which is Israel, and then we're
going for the big Satan, which is America. So to
see such an influential and wise and faithful American recognize
we're in this together, I think more people need to
wake up to that before it's too late.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Well, you know, yeah, I said, the Maricops taught me
a duty to my country. But when I came to
understand that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,
and to understand his reality and his claim on us,
I fell in love with Israel and fell in love
with America because I realized that the Jewish people really
(09:00):
present one of the most persecuted and perhaps the most
persecuted group of people in the history of mankind, persecuted
pretty much every where they've ever been. And I really
believe that that's because they represent something that the world doesn't understand.
The world in these which is a sense of moral
(09:22):
clarity that has been received by them from Moses, a
sense of destiny which has been given to them by God.
And America, I really believe shares some of those same qualities.
And so for me, every Christian ought to be determined
(09:44):
to stand with Israel in these very, very dangerous and
difficult times. I mean to me, yeah, well it's biblical times, really,
because these efforts to destroy Israel to me, have biblical significance,
and every Christian ought to be standing with his rather
than with all the anti Semitic naysayers and haters who
(10:05):
are creating all these protests on our campuses and all
over the country. We ought to stand up boldly and forthrightly.
In fact, we have a batner in my church. Yeah,
all that says stand with Israel, and it's posted on
the wall of my church for all to see.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
So if you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Walk into my church and you have a problem with Israel,
you're going to probably turn right around and go right
back out the door, because we want to make clear
to everybody we believe that it's the obligation of every
Christian and every American for that matter, to stand with Israel.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Wow, well, you are not only brave, you are brilliant.
You received your law degree from Harvard. I hear in
your words this brilliant mixture of both faith, common values
and wisdom, and also deep education that is reserved for
only the brightest and only the best. How did your
(11:02):
education influence your faith and vice versa, And how did
your legal career shape your own ministry and the work
that you're part of. It's very rare to find someone
like you that has an expertise in all those areas.
How do you hold them together?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
One of the reasons why I love our country. I
love the United States of America is and Israel shares
the same quality.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
To me.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
The real mark of a great nation ya l is
the degree to which it affirms the dignity of every
human being. And we have an entire legal system. And
people criticize Israel, but Israel is the place where Palestinians
can live. And it doesn't matter what the color of.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Your skin is. Everyone can live in Israel.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Who's willing to can live in Israel in peace if
you are a citizen there. And America has created the
same kind of legal system where and we haven't always
done this perfectly, of course.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Because we're human beings. But I live in a nation.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Where my ancestors were slaves. But I live in a
nation that latest foundation on the principle that every single
human being is created equal in the sight of God.
And now I become heir to that legacy of liberty
and the affirmation of human dignity, that whether people agree
with me or not, they are still human beings that
(12:25):
deserve to be treated with human dignity. And to me,
my legal training helped me to understand that in a
way that I hadn't before, because I saw really the
brilliance and the inspiration of our founding fathers, who distrusted
power enough to limit the power of government, affirmed human
(12:47):
beings enough to say human beings are capable of managing
their own lives, and they don't need to be dictated
to day by day as to what they should say
and what they should think, and where they should go
and where they should live and where they should work.
I'll tell you that the affirmation of liberty that is
true for both countries. I just find it inspiring, and
(13:08):
I'm grateful every day to live in a nation of freedom.
And you know, I've been to Israel several times. I'm
looking to coming back again soon. But every time I
come to Israel, I feel that same sense of infra inspiration,
that same sense of affirmation, although sadly Israel is beset
all around by enemies who want to destroy the beautiful
(13:29):
country that's been created there.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's so sobering inspiring, and I keep on. I feel
like a broken record because everything you say, my heart
is just praise God for Visia. Praise God because there
are so few people who are both educated, faithful and
able to see what's happening, like you said it, something
Israel is very proud of.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
There you won't find one Jew living in Bethlehem, you
won't find one Jew living in Janine. You find one
Jewish person living in Gaza. Before this warna that we
have our soldiers there, But since two thousand and five,
you would have found one Jewish person in Gaza. And
there are two million non Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Drus Bedouin,
(14:15):
Christian in Israel, and this tiny country of only ten
million people, over twenty five percent of them are actually
not Jewish. And this is a reminder that Israel is
one Jewish country, with twenty two Arab countries in the
Arab Union, Israel's point four percent of the entire land
mass of the Middle East and ninety nine point six
(14:37):
percent our Arab blends, where seven million Jews in Israel
seven and a half million Jews in Israel were surrounded
by hundreds of millions of Muslims, many of them enemies.
And so it's a reminder that Israel cherishes that freedom
that America cherishes. We don't give citizenship to twenty five
percent of non Jews in the only Jewish country in
(14:59):
the entire world, because we're trying to appease anyone, but
because these are the faithful values of God. Equality. If
you want to live in peace, you are one of us,
just like the story of Ruth. You are my people.
Your God is my God, Your people are my people.
And so the fact they were able to see that,
it feels like Israel's always on the defense trying to
(15:20):
explain it, and people just don't want to see it.
They want to see Israel as the aggressor. They want
to see Israel as bad. They want to see Israel
as somehow bringing the instability to the world, when in reality,
if it weren't for Israel, you would have the radical
Ayatolahs who are trying to destroy freedom in power, and
(15:41):
they'd be directly going for Europe in America. So it's
very sobering, and I know that it's not an easy
position to take in many ways. Bishop, you're going against
the tide, and you're going against the trends. And like
you said, I can just envision it. In your church.
You have a big sign that says we stand with Israel.
They're not embarrassed of it, you don't hide it. Have
(16:03):
you and your church personally gotten any sort of has
anyone given you any trouble for standing with Israel?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Well? Sure, before I get to that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
One of the as you know, one of the many
slanders against Israel is to call it apartheid nation, this.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
On one of my trips to Israel, I had the
opportunity to meet many Ethiopian Jews that Israel had taken
extraordinary efforts to rescue out of Ethiopia. I just thought
it was a magnificent testament to again the commitment to
human dignity, but also the non racial nature of the
(16:47):
state of Israel, that they didn't care about the color
of the skin of these Jewish people. They cared that
they were Jews and they were in trouble, and they
again went to extraordinary efforts to rescue them. And I
met an of Ethiopian Jews when I was in Israel.
So these lies against Israel are they sickened me? Frankly? Yeah, Ell,
because say they're either born of just ignorance or just
(17:09):
hatred and anti Semitism, and it doesn't matter to people
what the facts are.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
I was thinking before we did this interview. Yeah, Elle,
I haven't heard.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It much lately, but you know, we used to repeat
whenever we talked about Israel and the persecution of the
Jewish people, never again, never again. We've forgotten that we
need to be reminded of that, that there was an
attempt to completely wipe out the Jewish people, and Israel
was born as a as a haven of rest, not
(17:44):
much rest going on right now, but a place of
peace and safety. It wasn't created as an aggression against anybody,
but as a place to which the Jewish people could repair,
having witnessed an attempt to destroy them, annihilate them from
(18:04):
the face of the earth. So, to be very honesty,
I don't care what people think. I don't care what
they think of me, and I don't care what they
want to do to me. Nothing is going to deter
me from standing with Israel. I am committed to laying
my life on the line to the extent that I
would be called upon to do so, to stand with
(18:25):
the Jewish people. I believe that that is my mandate
as a Christian, and that is my mandate as an American.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Wow, powerful words, Bishop Jackson, and you make so many
very important points. You know, the number of Jewish people
from before the Holocaust was still more than what we
are today. We still haven't made up those six million
Jews who are burned in gas chambers. And something we
say often in Israel is free Gaza. Just like the
(18:55):
anti Semites are saying, and as they're burning American and
israel flags are saying free Gaza and Isel, we say
free Gaza as well. We say free Gaza from Ramas,
because Ramas is holding the Palestinians hostage. Israel has repeatedly
reached out in peace trying to find agreements, begging them
to accept one of the agreements that we can finally
(19:17):
live in peace with one another. When Israel pulled down
in two thousand and five from the Gaza strip, it
was with the prayer there won't be one Jew left.
They could make it into a Singapore. They have no
excuse not to make it into a coastal enclave of
tourism and a dreamland, and instead they turned it into
one big terror country. But just as Israel is being
(19:39):
held hostage by these terrorists on our border, the Palestinian
people are being held hostage by Ramas, And just as
we are being held hostage by Rasbella terrorists on our border,
Lebanese people, many of them Christians, are being held hostage
by Rasbella as well. That it's an important reminder because
I think in this world of simplified slogans, people are
(20:03):
losing the nuance that is so critical to actually understand
what's happening. If you care about the Palestinian people, then
you'll want to eradicate Hamas. They're not good for the
Palestinian people. So everyone who's pretending to care about the
Palestinian people while standing up for Hamas is not understanding
what's happening here. And so America is lucky to have you.
(20:26):
America is lucky to have your wisdom, your leadership, your faith,
and I know you have millions of people who follow
your every word what you're doing, and you are a
brave and righteous role model for so many people. And
so I want to ask you one last question, maybe
the hardest and maybe the most important question there is
(20:47):
how can we better educate the young people, the next
generation in America so that they can be our allies
and understand this fight against hatred and we can return
to the place where the idea of freedom is valued,
(21:07):
is understood that it's not free, and that the next
generation will continue these American values of freedom, equality and
recognizing who their friends are.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, you know, I've said that there are many similarities
between America and Israel, and one of those similarities is
that it has taken courage to birth these nations. And yeah,
well there's no such thing as courage without conflict. And
I think part of the reason why a lot of
people don't speak up is that they are afraid of
(21:42):
the consequences. They're afraid of what people might say. And
I would charge every American and every Christian particularly to
just step up and speak up, regardless of what others
might think.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Don't mute yourself because.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
You think, well, they people might not like me if
I stand up for Israel.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I think it's got to be personal.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You know, when I first came to serve God. One
of the things he impressed upon me was that the
stewardship of my country was in my hands. Now, of
course I know that in single handedly I can't change
the deciny of America, so to speak. But it was
personal that I couldn't parted off on someone else to say, oh, well,
(22:27):
you know those people out there, they can do that.
I realized I had to take responsibility for myself, and
I would say the same thing to every Christian and
every American. Take responsibility yourself. Where you see people who
are misinformed and you see them espousing things that you
know are not true. Israel has done more to try
to limit civilian casualties than anything I think I've ever
(22:52):
witnessed in the history of warfare or read about. But
Hamas wants civilian careties because they don't care about human
life the way Israel does, and so they're willing to
sacrifice as many lives as they can so they can
use them as talking points. So this idea that somehow
(23:13):
Israel is engaged in bad behavior and prosecuting this war
in a way that it should be ashamed of, I
think quite the contrary. This war started when twelve hundred
innocent Jewish people were brutally attacked and murdered in a
surprise attack on October seventh, and Israel has a right
(23:35):
to stop those people who are committed to that kind
of activity from ever being able to do it again.
So I would say every person ought to take personal responsibility,
and you can start.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
There, Bishop Jackson. I can listen to you speak for hours,
and I have so much more that I want to
glean from your wisdom. So I'm going to have to
have you back, but I want to respect you time
and thank you for coming, and ask are there any
upcoming projects that you're excited about that you'd like to
share with us?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Well?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, Well, first of all, we do have stand with Israel,
and as you know, we've got a stand senior fellow
for our organization with Israel who is none other than
Pastor Roger Cheeks, and we're working closely with him to
celebrate a commemorator I shouldn't say celebrate, but to commemorate
what happened on October seventh, and helping him to reach
(24:30):
other churches in doing that. So that's the big project
that we're going right now. We've got going right now,
and I would encourage every Christian, every church to participate
in this effort again to make sure that we don't
forget why this war is going on in the Middle
East right now. It's not something that Israel precipitated. It's
(24:51):
something that Alma's precipitated.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Incredible that's on October seventh that we have hundreds of
churches who, instead of burn the Israeli flag like the
anti Semites are doing, they're planting twelve hundred flags in
their church yard to show we only stand with God,
and we stand America and Israel, Christians and Jews together.
And I can't think of a more holy, righteous and
(25:16):
powerful statement than that. Bishop Jackson, you are a light
to the world. We are all so grateful for everything
you do, everything you are, and everything that we are
able to learn from you. So thank you for being
such a proud American, such a proud supporter of Israel,
such an amazing friend to the Jewish people and to
(25:38):
the international Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And may God
bless you and your family penful just like you promised
in Genesis.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
God bless you, and God bless Israel. Amen. Amen, Thank
you
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