Today with Jeff Vines

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What on earth is Pastor Jeff talking about? Because it's
something that has to be experienced, right, It's kind of
like jumping out of an airplane. I can try to
describe it until you've done it. You don't have a clue.
When you're born again, you've filled things you never fouled previously,
the love of God. But you've got to go past
theory into reality. And the only way you do that
is when you're born again and you're raised to a

(00:21):
higher order of life.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Today, Today, Today, Today with Jeff Findes, pasta apologist and
Bible teacher. Welcome back to Today with Jeff Finds. My
name's Aaron. Today we're listening to another message in the
help series. In this episode, Pastor Jeff continues to look

(00:46):
at the parable of the mustard seed in the East
from Luke, Chapter thirteen. So far he's been exploring the
question is there any way out? If you missed any
of this episode, or any episodes in this help series,
you can find the whole series wherever you listen to podcasts.
Just search for Today with Jeff Findes. We're part way through,

(01:08):
so let's pick up the rest of this message. Here's
Pastor Jeff.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Do you think dirt feels. I don't think dirt says, hey,
you stepped on me, that hurt. I don't think they
feel or have emotions. Plants do not feel or have emotions.
Animals they have the rudiments of feeling, but they don't
feel as on a deep level as humanity because feeling
is in conjunction with your sense of awareness. They're not
aware of a lot of things they should feel, but

(01:45):
humanity fills on a deeper level. My dog cannot rejoice
the way I can. I'm not saying dogs can't be happy,
but it's not to the degree of humanity because there's
a greater awareness of understanding about that which we should
be happy. The deep feelings of Joe, the sensations of ecstasy,
those are not the same with animal level. Again, here
we go in the area of feeling. Each level of

(02:08):
ordered life feels more deeply than the previous level. That's
all I'm saying. But as you progress, awareness becomes more intense.
You're aware more of what's there, your determination of aolition
to do what you want to do, and feeling to
feel something special. Now you know where I'm going with is,
don't you? According to the Bible, there's one more level
after this one. It's when the seed of the presence

(02:31):
of God comes into the soil of your soul. You
don't move to this level or this level, or even
this level. As a matter of fact, if you're still here,
you're dead man walking. There's another level, the level of
being born again. There's gonna be a lot of people
in the next eight minutes that listen to what I
have to say, and they're gonna think, huh. There's gonna
be other people shaking their heads the whole time. Yeah,

(02:53):
that's right. That's the way it works, because what the
Bible says is that when you are born again, you
are pushed into a higher order of life, a higher level,
so much so that if you compare the new life
with this life, it's like you're a dead man walking.
You might be described as living, but it's a living death.
That's why the Bible says. You were dead in your transgressions.

(03:17):
You were just dirt. Jesus says, but I put the
seed of God in you, and now you are a
higher order of life. Okay, Jeff, that's all well and good.
What does it mean. It means this that a person
who is born again possesses a greater sense of awareness.
You see things now you never saw before. You might
even thought they were ridiculous. You wonder why your non
Christian friends cannot see what you see because they've not

(03:39):
been born again. The seed of God is not going
into the soil of their soul. But you, you're different.
There's divine realities now, Man, They're powerful in your life.
You not only know about God. You see God. You know,
not as some kind of theophany or visible picture, but

(04:01):
you see His work all around you, which is why
you respond differently than you did before you were born again.
God is more than an idea or a concept or
a set of principles. His presence is in you. So
you're like Job. Now, if you've been born again, you're
totally good with this. And I told you that Job
as he responded to God, and God talked with Job.

(04:22):
God said, Job, do you not understand I am able
to take the chaos in the early stages of the
universe and bring beauty, pattern and design into it. In
the same way, I am able to take the chaos
present in your life and bring beauty and pattern and
design into it. And there are people right now shaking
their heads. You know why, they've been in the fire
and they've seen now years later, how beauty, pattern and

(04:45):
design comes out of chaos. Now, if you're born again,
you see it, you feel it. It's real. If you're not,
you're thinking this guy's crazy, he's lying to himself. But
how can I express it if you've not been born
again to where you can understand it until the seed
comes into the soil of your life. That's what's so hard.

(05:07):
It's frustrating for we preachers, like Paul. Paul said, all
things work together for the good. I say that people think, yeah, right,
how God's going to bring good out of this, I
don't know, but that he doesn't. I am sure and
I've seen it. There goes the heads again, bobbing up
and down. It's like bablehead Sunday at CCV right now,
because you know, and sometimes you know what when I

(05:28):
talk about the Potter and the clay, you talk about feeling.
There are people in this room when they go to
these difficulties, they can feel like they're the clay and
God is sharpening the ages. They'll almost tell you, I
got pain in my shoulders. God sharpening it's hurting, it's painful.
But I know because I'm at the stage of awareness.
I see spiritual realities that God is shaping and molding,

(05:49):
and believe it or not, good is coming. James, Chapter one.
Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials
of many kinds, that you may be mature and complete,
not lacking anything. Now, I want you to know something
about that passage. Nowhere in that verse, as the Bible
say that God sent you your tragedy. It's an accounting term.
Consider it says you know what. As a Christian, there's

(06:10):
a part of you like Job. You want to understand
all the intricate details of your pain. God told Job, No,
you are finite. I am infinite. Let God be God.
It's that whole statement again. You want the truth, you
can't handle the truth. God's will, his power, his wisdom
is so vast. How much do you really want to know?
But Gods, I'll tell you what you can trust. I'm

(06:32):
gonna use this to work you into the person that
I want you to become. You're into the higher order
level of life. I look at you. I am feeling
as good right now as I've ever felt as your pastor.
Because I keep saying head Bobby. That tells me there's
a lot of believers in this room. There are people
who say, Jeff Man, you better get to the deep stuff.
This is shadow already. I mean, I know what you're talking.

(06:52):
You better give me something I don't know. Right. You know,
that's the way God, the power of the Cross becomes
more real. The love of God. You're aware of that.
You know that it doesn't matter if the pain you're
in was caused by you. God doesn't put you on
that platform and say all you got yourself into this mess,
you get yourself out. That's not the love of God.
And because the Cross, you know that God forgives, he

(07:14):
doesn't give you a speech. He just says, don't worry, man,
I'm right here with you. I'm right here with you.
We're gonna go through this together. I don't care how
you got here. We're in this together, and I'm gonna
release my divine energy into your life every step of
the way. Before when I said these things, if you're
not born again, they're vague to you. You think they're ridiculous.
Till God plans to seed. Do you realize if right

(07:37):
now there are chillbumps running down and you're thinking, yet,
do you realize what that means. It's a sign of
your authenticity. The seed of God has been planted in
the soil of your soul. You're living on a higher level.
Your friends aren't gonna understand. We want them to. You
pray for them that God would plant his seed. Divine
realities become personal realities. Secondly, a person who has been

(07:57):
born again possesses supernatural ability to enact the will. You're
not just responding anymore to stimuli. You have all five senses.
You have the ability to act. That's why the best
thing that somebody who's addicted to alcohol can do is
come to Christ. Then they're higher order. They got the

(08:21):
power of the volition to make a change. Before that,
you're living in a lower level of life, and in comparison,
you're dead man walking. You want to do the good,
but you can't. You want to defeat alcoholism, pornography. You
wanted to feed whatever to but you have. You are powerless,
but now you're in the higher order of life man.
And now before it was a master over you, but

(08:42):
now you're large and in charge. You tell the will
what to do because you're empowered by the power of
God through his Holy Spirit. Listen, listen. I had a
friend in Savannah, Georgia. Name is Sam. Sam and I
played a lot of golf together. Sam was interesting. God,
I mean, he took me in a lot of nice
golf courses. Sam said to me, Now, look, we've been

(09:06):
playing golf together. Do you know me? But there's something
you else you got to know about me. I just
want to be upfront with you. I said, man, what
is that? Sam? I thought something really bad was coming.
He said, I'm an alcoholic. I said, wow, Sam, really,
I said, how often do you drink? He said, I
haven't had a drink in twelve years, but I am
an alcoholic. I'd go to AA meetings every morning. I said,

(09:26):
how do you do it? How do you defeat something
that's so strong? What he said, there's no longer I
who live, but Christ who lives in me. When I
first heard that, I thought, oh, okay, yeah, right, what's
the real reason. There's the temptation to do that. But
then you get to know Sam. Sam knows that defeating
alcoholism is a twenty four hour period. You never defeated

(09:48):
for good. You just defeated one day at a time,
and to do that, he said, I know that the
power of God lives in me because I'm in a
higher order, and I call on that power every morning
to get me through that day. And greater is He
that is in me than he that is in the world.
And I defeated one day at a time because I'm
in a higher order of life. If you're still here

(10:09):
and you're trying to defeat alcoholism, pornography, whatever it is,
you're a dead man walking. You got no power. The
power of God comes in the seed comes in Corey
ten Boom's book. I've mentioned it. I don't know how
many times. The Hiding Place one of my favorite books.
Near the end of the book, she talks about in

(10:30):
those concentration cass now we're so far removed from World
War Two, we forget how horrific they really were. I mean,
people are dying, they're starving, they're walking in the snow
and the cold, barefoot. They're trying to kill them. And
core ten Boom, after she's released and the Holocaust is
over to in some respects the war is over is
probably a better way to say it. She says. She
walks around all through Europe, Germany, preaching in churches and

(10:55):
town halls about the forgiving power of God. No matter
how or what someone's under you. It's all good in word,
isn't it. Oh, word's good. Words easy. And then one
of the guards from the raven Brook Prison who mercilessly
tortured her sister Bessie, who died in the concentration camps,
came to the back of the door when she was
greeting people as they were leaving. Corey tim Boom recognized

(11:18):
who it was. The guard came and said, Miss tim Boom,
that was quite a message of forgiveness. I hope that
you can extend the forgiveness that you were talking about
to me. Oh, now it's power. Word before now it's power.
But Corey tim Boone says, I couldn't do it. Couldn't
raise my hand to forgive. Here's this example of forgiveness.
She could not raise her hands. She writes the story
in her book. In the last few pages, she prayed, God,

(11:41):
I know that your power. I am a new order,
I'm a new creature, I am new in Christ. I
need your power. She says. There is a warm feeling
just started to rise in my arm. It's almost like
God raised it half and I took the other step. Now.
I used to read that and think, yeah, right, But
then wait a minute. If you're a higher order, you've
got a greater sense of awareness, a greater sense of
w If you just meet God halfway, it seems like

(12:02):
he walks through the rest, a greater understanding, a greater awareness.
And thirdly, a person who's been born again possesses the
ability to feel spiritual realities on a deeper level before
how do you say this? I mean, how do you
say this without thinking what on earth is pastor Jeff

(12:24):
talking about? Because it's something that has to be experienced, right,
It's kind of like jumping out of an airplane. I
can try to describe it until you've done it. You
don't have clue. When you're born again, you feeled things
you never fouled previously. The love of God we talk
about Dane talks about the love of God, the divine
and embrace. But you've got to go past theory into reality,

(12:46):
and the only way you do that is when you're
born again and you're raised to a higher order of life.
Think about it. There's a sense in which people love plans.
Is that true? And that's okay. As long as you
don't worship the creation over the creator, you're all right.
As long as you don't have that's the plant to
give you what God wants to get from you, you're
all right. But people love plants. I love my dog,

(13:06):
oh I do. There's a sense in which I love
my Low. I mean, we were coming back from Phoenix recently,
and we were about two hours out of town. By
the way, there's just not a lot of stuff between
Palm Springs and Phoenix. That's I'm glad. I filled up
the tank with gas. But uh, about two hours out
of town, I said, get the phone out. Let's call
the oak least because they were keeping our dog. Let's
call and haven't put the phone up. The models here

(13:27):
and say, hey, my low, we're almost all why do
you do that? They dog lovers know you've done something
like because you love your dog and you think he
can understand, he can hear me. All hears is blah
blah blah, food or something like that, and so you
love your dogs nothing like in some respects love of
a plant. Plant doesn't love you because it doesn't express emotion,
but you can have an affinity for it. It's fine.

(13:49):
Nothing like the love of a dog or a cat.
In this case, how that happens. I got no idea cat.
But it's nothing like the love of a spouse, nothing
like the love of a child, nothing like the love
of God. Nothing like it. And when you're born again, man,

(14:11):
that spiritual reality comes in and you feel the presence
of God. And right now the bibleheads are going Some
of you, if you're honest with yourself, said, you know,
I've never felt that presence. Is it possible that the
Kingdom of God to you is word but not power.
There are people seated in churches all across America that
the Kingdom of God has been word for so long
they have a knowledge about it, but there's no power

(14:31):
because they've not been born again. There's a new order
of life, a new order of living beyond word into power.
So first, quickly, it's the power of new life. Second
it's the power of growth. And this is where I've
got just fifty eight seconds according to the clock to finish.
You know that ain't gonna happen, But I'm almost done.
Will you stay with me. I've not lost you yet.
Now you can bother your head and say you're okay,

(14:52):
Just say you're all right, all right? The power of growth, Now,
this is the symbolism of the yeast. If you talk
about the seed, I think Jesus would have held the
seed up and he said, why shall I compare the
kingdom of God to like this seed? Now? Think about it.
A seed is small, smaller than a wall, that's smaller
than an acorn. And you think, how on earth could

(15:12):
that seed grow that big tree? But think about it.
If the seed, a mustard seed, were to have a
head on collision with a slab of concrete, who would
win concrete? Every time? Oh? But what happens if you
plant the seed under the concrete? It cracks it every time? Why?

(15:32):
Because the seed it's organic, it gets a higher level
of life. Pavement's in organic, it's nothing, it's stuff. And
over time, slowly it grows, it grows and it cracks
the pavement. What's your point? A lot of people, when
they become believers, they want their problems to crack. They
want the problems just to roll right off them. Jesus,
the saying doesn't work like that. He says, it's like yeast.

(15:56):
It's like you take the yeast, you sprinkle it into
the dough. It doesn't change the dough. It's still your personality,
your temperaments, your problems. But the yeast goes in and
it builds, and it builds, and then it grows and
it pulls everything up and it brings you with it,
so that over time the sidewalk does crack. But it's

(16:21):
not because your problems go away. It's because you have
a new sense of awareness and you see them differently
than you did before. Here you're a dead man walking.
Here you know you got life in you. There's an
awareness in those three areas again, you're aware of God's power,
his presence, his willingness to take possession of you and
do a mighty work even in the midst of your pain.
You not only know it, you feel it. You have

(16:45):
a greater will now self master. You're not just responding
to stimuli, folks. You respond to your problems based on
the power of God living in you to accomplish His
purposes in you and through you. And you know that
whatever God calls you to do, he assumes the responsibility
to equip you to do it. Let's let's let's let's
get off the little preacher. Let's talk a minute. Why
do you worry? Some of you in the room right

(17:07):
now are facing insurmountable what seems like insurmountable. Let me
ask you, why are you worrying? Because the threats of
life are more real to you than God's sovereign control
over every event in this world, the threats of life.
When you go to the higher stage, the most real
thing in your life is that God is on the throne.

(17:29):
He's in control, and whatever happens to you and happening
to you now, he will work all everything together for
his good. Now again, you say that to an unchursted
and unbelieve, they're gonna say you got to be great. No, though,
when the seed of God comes in the soil of
your soul, you start to sense that. You see that,
and it comforts you. Why why are we bitter? Because

(17:50):
the mercy of God is not as real to you
as what people have done to you. See, because if
the mercy of God was more real to you than
what people have done to you, when somebody does something, yes,
your sister in law, brother law, family member, when they
just really tick you off, because they can tick you
off like nobody else but you know what, because the
mercy of God is more real to you than that,
And you know that man, God forgives me every day

(18:13):
of about a thousand sins I commit. I mean, I'm
not perfect, I am not who I should be. And
because God gives me that kind of mercy, I think
the least I could do would be to forgive my
sister in law, Fir the one thing she did twenty
five years ago, and to tell you the truth, I
can't even remember what it was, but I'm still mad.
When the mercy of God is more real than what

(18:35):
people have done, you forget. Why are you doubt? Some
of you are down and depressed. I know I told
you I struggle with depression. But again, I'm growing in this.
When people say harmful things to you, if you let
it get you down, that means that their words are
more real to you than Jesus' words, who says I
love you, I value you. And every day is a
day where I'm growing and building you. I'm inside you, Jeff,

(18:55):
and it's just building, and it's building and it's growing.
It's gonna explode at least somebody of the building. To
save gradual bit by bit power by powers repreaings me
that last point nowhere is the hidden power of the
divine nature in you more active than in your response

(19:16):
to difficult times. That's when you know if you're growing.
That's when you know what the seed's in you. That's
when you know what the yeast is well enough in
the way you respond to difficulty. That's why the Corey
ten booms of the world are believable to me now.
They weren't ten years ago. They are to me now.
How is it that she can say, you know what?
The fleas were infesting the barracks of our concentration camp,

(19:38):
and I told the ladies in this fleet infestation that
it was a will of God because while having the
fleas and the barracks, the guards stayed away and we
could pray and read the Bible. That's somebody who's in
the higher order, who's more aware of the presence of
God and the workings and doings of God. She said,
no matter how deep you're pain in despair, God's love
is deeper still. That's because he has a great sense

(20:01):
of awareness. Have you heard the story of Wang Ming Tao,
China's most renowned evangelist. You know, you know what bothers me,
just honesty. It bothers me that these great examples of
faith are happening outside of America. I want to say something.
I want you to take it with love, because we're
getting fat and lazy spiritually. We want everything now. We're

(20:26):
not willing to endure much at all. But that's how
God builds people of strength to change the world. Very
few people who've changed the world had an easy street life.
Come on, now, there are people who had it hard.
I don't know if we're willing to do that. This
preacher in China was arrested put in prison. They told
him he was going to spend the rest of his

(20:47):
life in this prison. He couldn't handle that. He sat
there in the cell thinking about that, and he thought, way,
if I recamp, they'll let me out. He recanted. They
let him out two days later because of his higher
order of living. He said, you know what, if God,
if is his will that I spend the rest of

(21:10):
my life in prison that His kingdom might be built,
then so be it. And he started walking the streets
of Beijing saying, my name is Peter, and I've delied
my Lord. My name is Peter, and I have denied
my Lord, and they arrested him. He spent nineteen years
in prison, became an old man a friend of mine
not too long ago, but awhile visited him with three

(21:31):
young college students. All the three college students wanted to
know us, how'd you do it? How did you do it? Now?
If you're my age, you're going to remember this. You
know what he said? He quoted the words of an
old hymn. That's going to mean a lot to older people.
All the way my Savior leads me. What have I
to ask? Beside? Can I doubt his tender mercy, who

(21:53):
through life has been my guide, heavenly peace of Divinus.
Comfort here by faith in him to dwell, For I
know whate'er befall me. Jesus doeth all things well. The
Kingdom of God is more than mere word. It's power.
That power comes into your life. Listen to me, those
of you who are in an enormous pain right now,
please listen whatever God is calling you to endure. I

(22:20):
don't understand it. I don't have to. God assumes the
responsibility to give you what you need to go through it.
And let me tell you what's gonna happen in this
time that must seed is springing up, the yeast is growing,
and the power and presence of God is welling up
in you. Are you growing If you are and you're

(22:41):
watering that seed through Bible study and through prayer, through worship.
When you have to face life's most difficult trial, you're
gonna have a keen sense of awareness of the presence
of God, a volition to do what God's calling, and
you're gonna feel the presence of God, as people in
this room right now can tell you. When you're in
the pit, the presence of God is most powerful and

(23:04):
you feel Him like you've never felt him before. Praise
be to God. There is a way through Jesus Christ,
our Lord Father. We are grateful this morning for the
power of your word, for the way that you look
into the depths of our souls and lives, and we know,
we know we can be born again. All those who
call on the name of Jesus in come and say
we need a savior, we need to be forgiven of

(23:25):
our sin, find their way into the Kingdom. And as
you place the spirit of God, your spirit into us,
it is welling up withinside. It's not like dynamite, not
like a sudden burst of power, but it grows over
time until it cracks our problems and our words and
our concerns. Because spiritual realities, we know the reality that
you're in charge, that you're in control, that you're doing

(23:47):
your mighty work, and our life becomes more real to
us that reality than anything we might face. Oh Father,
we are so we're so pleased that you chose us
before the foundations of the world. We're so thankful that
we've moved to a higher order of life. That our
previous life, when compared with that, is this living death.

(24:07):
But now we've moved past mere existence into real life,
and for that we will always be grateful that we
have been given new life in Jesus' name.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Amen, you've been listening to Today with Jeff Finds. Next
time we'll bring you a new message from pastor Jeff.
You can listen to more messages like this. Just search
for Today with Jeff Finds wherever you listen to podcasts
you met

Speaker 1 (24:41):
With Everything Friend, Today, Today, Today, Today with Jeff Fines