Today with Jeff Vines

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pick up your matt and walk. Great story, but I
have a few questions. Question number one is this, Why
doesn't Jesus hill everybody at the pool, thank you, go
through the whole New Testament, which is what I've spent
most of my life doing trying to gather this information.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
People with little to even no faith.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Got healed because they came into contact.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
With Jesus, and out of his own mercy had nothing
to do with him, He just healed them. Today, Today, Today,
Today with Jeff Fines, pasta apologist and Bible teacher.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome to Today with Jeff Fines.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
My name is Aaron.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
This episode, we're continuing with our Broke series, helping us
find hope when we're broke, whether that's physically, financially, spiritually,
or in some other type of way. Today Pastor Jeff's
message is titled in Need of Repair. In John chapter five,
we read of Jesus and a man at the healing cool.
The man had been suffering for thirty eight years before

(01:04):
he's healed. Jesus made sure that the man was ready
and willing to have his life changed. Let's join Pastor
Jeff as he opens up the deeper meaning of John
chapter five.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
The reality is that many of you might have come
in here, actually probably did with your car you drove
into the parking lot this morning. But in reality, there's
probably a lot of you, even though we didn't see it,
somewhere inside you felt like this woman. There's a lot
of healing that needs to take place in your life.
And if somehow we could capture Jesus again in that

(01:50):
physical in the sense that where it's tangible, he's tangible,
that you'd find yourself kind of crawling up to him
and asking.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Desperately to be healed.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
That's why I want you to turn over to John
chapter five today, John chapter five, and we're in a
series called Broke.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
And as you're turning there, I want you just to listen.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Obviously I want you to listen to the whole sermon,
but just now, more than ever, if I can just
build this and we can do it together, so they
can speak volumes to wherever we are today in our
journey with God. Most of you know I spent most
of my life as an apologist, that's someone who defends
the Gospel, often in hostile settings. Now most of my

(02:32):
life in New Zealand, traveling through Australia at universities, or
whether in a cafe, just seated across from some gentleman
or some lady at a table. The questions have come
at me for most of my life. Jeff, how on
earth can you possibly believe in God when there's so
much evil in the world? Or Jeff, how can you
say that God is good, loving, kind and gracious when
there's all this pain and suffering in the world. Jeff,

(02:54):
what kind of faith has is a central part across
with blood and guts and gore. What kind of father
would do that to a son? That's what the Bible says,
isn't it. And what kind of a good, loving, merciful
God would send anybody to a place called hell to
be tormented for all of eternity. Those are the kinds
of questions I've faced on the fiery line most of

(03:17):
my life, and I believe, although they sound really really
difficult in the beginning, if you open up or have
people open up within their own assumptions as they ask
those questions, I believe the Bible answers them in a
not only a biblical way, but in a philosophical way
that really brings a lot of truth into difficult issues.
You know that I've spent my life doing that. I've
recorded those answers in a book called Dinner with the

(03:39):
Skeptics that we do have in our bookstore.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
But this is not a commercial for the book.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
The reason I bring that up is even though I
spent years writing that, the reality is there are many
more questions for which I still don't have an answer.
But perhaps the most intriguing one is why I meet
in churches like this So people who are broken, who
are shattered in a million pieces, and like Humpty Dumpty,

(04:06):
they desperately need somebody to put them back together again.
And the reason that's interesting to me is because we
serve a god named Jesus whose forte is putting people
back together again, picking up the broken pieces of life
and bringing restoration. I mean, that's what he does best.
I mean, any walk to the Gospels, that's who you find.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
You find a.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Jesus who makes the lame to walk, and the blind
to see, and the death to hear, and he tells
the paralytic to pick up your bed and walk. I
remember the first time I saw Frank and Zephyrrelli's Jesus
of Nazareth. Remember that CBS used to show that every
year at Easter, and there they would have Jesus on

(04:47):
the big screen in color and he would be healing people.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
And I saw that as a child. I look forward
to it every year.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Wow, Jesus is awesome man, there's nothing he can't do.
But then I got older and that Jesus didn't seem
to harmonize well with the Jesus.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I knew.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Where was Jesus When I was praying for Joyce Da.
They're in Zimbabwe, in Africa. She's dying of cancer, and
I want her body deteriorate over a series of days
and weeks and months, and I pray the hardest I can.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
She still dies.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
What about where's the Jesus that ven Zepharelli shows us
in living color and in the Bible. When I'm praying
that God would stop my mother from dying. That I'm
even at her funeral and she's so young, and they're
lowering the casket into the ground and I'm there under
the tent on this cloudy, rainy day, and I say, God, Jesus,

(05:42):
I've read John eleven. I know you're able. Would you
raise even now? You could raise my mother, and all
these people in the tent might believe even now, you
could do it. That's the Jesus I've seen and read about.
And she died. Now I've been on the other side too.
You need to know that it is not the rule.
It is the accept But I've seen the other side.
I've prayed for a mother who had cancer. The doctors

(06:04):
gave her no hope, no way, she's gonna get better.
She's got six months to live. We all started praying
for her religiously. We prayed for her, and all of
a sudden, she goes to the doctor and the doctor says,
I can't I can't understand it. It's gone, it's not there.
He's mesmerized. He's not a believer. He's dump out and speechless.
She was hell, she's still alive. I remember mother's coming

(06:26):
to me and had little children to say. The doctor says,
my little boy, he's not gonna walk or talk, and
he's not gonna live a normal life. He's not gonna
maybe survive very long. Yet we prayed, Yeah, it is
the exception, not the rule, but I've seen it. All
of a sudden, the boy starts to talk and to walk,
and not only survive, but thrived. I saw a little
boy that you see in this photo by the name

(06:47):
of Oliver Jenkinson. His mother came to me once and said, Jeff,
this was in New Zealand not too long ago. The
doctor said, Oliver will ever walk and talk and play
and live a normal life, and probably won't survive more
than six months or a year. She said, would you
please pray. We all got together, We prayed as hard
as we could. We prayed, and we prayed, and then
over time it wasn't miraculous, it wasn't instantaneously, but.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Over time we noticed Oliver was walking.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Then he started talking, then he started playing with the
other kids, and then he started not only surviving but thriving.
And I told Amanda, his mother, I said, you know,
you need to bring that little boy every week into
this church and let him walk up and down these halls.
Even if he doesn't attend the service, I don't care.
Just let him be here as a as a graphic
reminder of what God is able and willing to do

(07:33):
when we prayed. I need to see that to keep
my faith in check. That's the Jesus, and that's why
I'd take you to John chapter five, because every time
I saw Oliver after that, come on, you do the same,
you know, And I did. Boy, if I could find
a secret formula, what was the what did we knew
right that God answered our prayer? I mean, is it

(07:55):
that we prayed really hard? Okay, I'll do it. Or
maybe I just need to remove all the sin from
my life.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, good luck with.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
That one, right, Or maybe I just don't have enough faith.
And then I came across John five. It was a
few years ago. It just changed my life. It changed
my view of God. It changed my hope for myself
and for all of you. Here's the story. It's just
an event in the life of Jesus.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
One of many.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Some time later John five, verse one, Jesus went up
to Jerusalem for a feast of the Jews.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Now there is in Jerusalem.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Near the sheep Gate, a pool which in Aramaic is
called Bethesda, and which is surrounded by five colored colonnades.
Here a great number of disabled people used to lie,
the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. One who was there
had been an invalid for thirty eight years. And when
Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had
been in this condition for a long time. He asked him,

(08:54):
do you want to get well?

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Sir?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
The invalid replied, I have no one to help me
into the pool when the water is stirred. While I'm
trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me.
And then Jesus said to him, get up, pick up
your mat, and walk at once the man was cured.
He picked up his mat and walked. Great story, But
I have a few questions. Question number one is this?
Why doesn't Jesus hill everybody at the pool? It says

(09:19):
in verse three, Here a great number mega megachurch, Mega faith,
Mega mall. This is megapeople, lots of them injured, paralyzed, born, blind,
who've never seen their mother or their father, brothers and sisters,
filled with sores and disease and pain, not having the
strength to be able to attend the temple, to hear

(09:41):
the prophets, and to be encouraged by their words. And
yet Jesus only chooses one. Why there are many others?
Is it because Jesus.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Didn't know the others were ill?

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Well, that doesn't seem to fly, Jesus said before Abraham,
was I am He's omniscient, he knows everything. He knows
all the ones that are ill and sick. Is that
Jesus didn't have a lot of compassion. But John, the historian,
the one that writes this passage, also tells us that
nobody loved like Jesus loved.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
So what is it?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Maybe the TV preachers are right. Maybe it's because they
don't have enough faith. Maybe he's the only one that
had enough faith. That's what they tell us. They say,
if you believe enough, you can be healed. You can
expect a miracle. But hold on a second, John, chapter eight.
What's the problem. It seems that, first of all, life
by this pool has become a way of life for

(10:31):
this guy. Look at verse five or verse six when
Jesus saw him lying there and learned he had been
in this condition for a long time?

Speaker 2 (10:39):
How long thirty eight years?

Speaker 1 (10:41):
He's been at this pool every single day. He's probably
learned to make a living here by begging. It's his
home away from home. Maybe it's his home period. But
notice Jesus comes into the pool and of the colonnade.
He doesn't approach Jesus and asks for healing. No, when
you read of healing, in the Bible, somebody does whatever

(11:02):
it takes to reach Jesus and maybe just touch the
heel of his garment, But not this guy. It's Jesus
who initiates the conversation. And this is what he says.
When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he
had been in this condition for a long time, he
asked him, do you want to get well?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
How many of you have ever asked a dumb question?
Come on, I do it regularly.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Every time I read that, it makes me think of
Ken Davis, who said he was on an airplane once
he was seated on his newspaper and the guy next
to him that he didn't know, asked him, sir, are
you reading that newspaper? Ken Davis said, And only the
way Ken Davis could, he said, I stood up, turned
the page, set back down and said, yes, I am.

(11:49):
At first glance. When I read this, it makes me
want to scratch my head and say, oh no, no,
I don't want to be healed, Jesus. I just want
to be sick for the rest of my life. I
enjoy these sores. I love the skin I'm in. That's
what it appears, but in reality, you start to think,
and we can't cover the rest of the story. You
can read it on your own time, which means don't
do it now. If Jesus hills this guy, his life's

(12:11):
gonna change. He's actually gonna have to get a job
now and work for a living. He's gonna have new
challenges that he never had before. Think about it. He's
gonna probably have a sibling rivalry.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
His brothers and.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Sisters now are gonna compete. He's probably gonna meet a
girl and get married. And he's gonna have a mother
in law, which is the biggest challenge is known to man.
His life will change. Maybe he's to the point where
he's thinking, Man, my life stinks. But at least I'm
used to it. I've gotten used to it. I've grown comfortable.
I've given up on healing ever occurring thirty eight years now.
He doesn't even realize what he's missing, so his response

(12:43):
then is more of an excuse.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Than anything else.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Verse seven, Sir the invalid replied, I have no one
to help me into the pool.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
When the water is stirred.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
While I'm trying to get in, someone else goes down
ahead of me. Now, let me give you a little background.
Here's the legend, superstition. There is a spring here, an artisan. Well,
the legend was that when the waters are stirred, it
was an angel of God stirring the waters, and the
first one in gets healed.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Now, Jesus, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Probably just thought, you know, this is so ridiculous what
people will do. So he just loosened and said, look,
do you want to get healed? Is that what you
really want? And the man never answers him. He doesn't say, boy,
would I yeah, my whole life? Well, yeah, Jesus. Here
he just makes an excuse for why he hasn't been
why he's never gotten in the water. First, now, folks,
listen this little pause here. These are not five baity

(13:34):
Kappa excuses. Thirty eight years, guys, wouldn't you think at
one point or another in thirty eight years he'd be
like the other paralytic in the Bible who got four
of his friends to march him up on top of
a roof and lower him down.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
So he could be with Jesus.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
What do you think he'd go and get four buddies
and say, all right, guys, when the water stirred, dumb
me in there thirty eight years.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I mean you think h'it? Think of a plan?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Or with all this money he's made by begging, save
some of it up and bribe.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
About four guys. I give you the money if you'll
do this.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Somewhere along the line he got used to living that way,
or maybe just persist, like the Canaanite woman in Matthew
fifteen who basically refused to leave Jesus until Jesus held
her daughter. I'm not going anywhere. Surely after thirty eight years,
he would say, Hey, you rookies, get away from the pool.
I've been here thirty eight years. I'm a veteran.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I go in first.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Anything ay, there's something else by the way. By the time,
by the time that this happens in Jesus ministry man,
he's electrifying the whole countryside. People are following him. He
can't go anywhere. I guarantee. When Jesus came into this pool,
people are behind him. They're all over him seeking to
be healed. My goodness, guys are being lowered through rooms
and even romans.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Are asking Jesus to heal. There them are their servants,
not this guy.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
He doesn't seek Jesus out, doesn't even ask to be healed.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
He even gives excuses why he's not. And here's the thing, Jeff,
where you're going with it.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
He got him the gud gets healed. Do you know why?
Because there's no formula. People approach Jesus with different amounts
of faith they got healed. There's no certain measure of
faith required. I'm not saying that Jesus wasn't impressed with
great faith.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
He was.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
He was encouraged by it and inspired by it. But
people with imperfect faith still God healed. In fact, you
go through the whole New Testament, which is what I've
spent most of my life doing, trying to gather this information.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
People with little to.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Even know faith, God healed because they came into.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Contact with Jesus, and out of his own mercy had
nothing to do with him, He just healed them. Examples
Matthew chapter eight.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
A guy comes to Jesus, doesn't have a lot of
faith in Jesus' compassion, knows maybe that Jesus has some
strange ability, but he says to him in Matthew eight,
verse two, if you are willing, you can make me clean.
In other words, Jesus, I believe you can. I'm just
not sure you want to. And Jesus said, okay, fair enough,
I want to lepers hilled over. In March chapter nine,
the father of a tormented son brings his son to Jesus.

(16:06):
Does not exactly exhibit great faith. Here's what he says
in verse twenty two of Mark nine. If you can
do anything, well, that's not a good way to start.
Take pity on us, if it's true, take pity on us,
and help us if you can.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Jesus said, I love it.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
We just can't see sarcasm in the Greek because Jesus says,
what do you mean, which is if I can?

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Business?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
If I can, he says, everything's possible for him who believes. Now,
it does take some manner of belief to get to Jesus.
That's why Jesus said, your faith has made you whole.
It's not a comment on the measure. It's a comment
on somewhat of faith will get you to go to Jesus.
Some measure of belief will get you to go to him.
This guy had some measure, but it wasn't great. He says,

(16:51):
I do believe. Help me overcome my unbelief in other.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Words, I have a belief. That's why I'm here. It's
just really shallow and weak, and it's associated with a
lot of doubt. But help me.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
I think Jesus just smiled and said, okay, fine, and
he held his son Luke. Chapter seven, my favorite New
Testament story. Centurion Roman Guy, a Roman dude comes to
Jesus is amazing. He makes his way through the streets
of Capernaum and he says to Jesus, Jesus, my son
or servant.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
We don't know which one because the word's hard to interpret.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Either his son or a servant is over there, away
from us, and he needs to be made well.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
He's sick, and I really love him. Jesus says, okay,
let's go. He says, no, don't need to you just
say the word. You don't even have to be there,
just speak. He'll be healed.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
It's I think it's the only place about well, there's
two places in the Bible where it says Jesus was astonished.
How do you get surprised if you're the son of God?
I said another sermon completely. He turns over to the
disciples and he.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Says, guys, I gotta tell you something.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
I have not seen faith like this even among Israel.
My old people don't believe in me like this Roman
dude does.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
That's really I love it. And his servant was held
that very hour. What's your point, Jeff?

Speaker 1 (18:04):
The healings come even though there are varying amounts of faith,
different measures, from doubting compassion to doubting willingness, from doubting
ability to almost.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Know faith at all.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
By the way, while we're on job, Joe, this guy
in John chapter five, what a character. I can't go
through it. But in the end he actually turns Jesus
in to get in trouble. Well, thanks for nothing. But
when Jesus heals somebody, he does usually make some kind
of comment or like he said to the Canaanite woman,
great is your faith, he said to the Roman centurion.
Not great faith like this have I've seen among Israel.

(18:38):
This guy, he doesn't even get commented on his faith.
Jesus doesn't say anything about it because it had nothing
to do with it. Jesus came upon him, had compassion,
and healed him point blank.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's it. Okay, okay, Jeff, what's your point? When Jesus heals.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's not because somebody had a high degree of certainty
or faith. There seems to be another criterion. What is
the criterion Jesus, Jesus and Jesus alone decides, which is
why instead of trying to figure out the formula, it's
like a thunderbolt.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Coming down out of the sky.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
It's like God said, look, Jeff, stop trying to figure
me out.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I'm a little bit complex. Ask and keep on asking,
Seek and keep on seeking. Knock and keep on knocking.
That's your job.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
And never stop because the healing may come. And I'm
giving parable after parable in the Bible. It's difficult to
understand because it appears that God is trying to communicate
to me. Persist, never give up, even if you don't
get what you're at. Persist, persist, don't give up. And man,
never be said of us what James said, You don't
have because you didn't ask. You don't have because you

(19:51):
don't ask. That there is power in coming to Jesus
and saying.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Lord, heal me.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
I want to be healed. I'm broken, I'm destroyed. Put
the pieces back together again. You say, Jeff, I thought
we were in a financial series. This is a nice
refresher we are. But here's the reality. I'm concerned. Yeah,
I'm concerned that we may not realize that you and
I have been given more than we need.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
We've been blessed.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, I'm concerned that we may not understand to whom
much is given, much is required. Yet I am concerned
that we will not realize God's imperative that we be
rich in good deeds. But listen, I'm your pastor, I
love you, and rope describes a lot more about us
than our finances, does it not. But here's the deal.

(20:39):
God sends revival. I can tell you having the time
of my life. I'm like a kid in a candy
store right now. God is doing something special. And I
see six hundred and twenty people go public with their faith.
I see almost one hundred come to Christ for the
first time. I see the look in your eyes, that
your eyes are open in a way they haven't been
since I got here.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I see that you're listening.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I see that God is communicating that everything belongs to him,
your very heart and soul, your physic, everything is his.
The earth is the Lord's and everything in it. But
I know, as your pastor, that it's a bit much
for a lot of us to take in. It's happening
so fast, you know why, and we really want to
do the right thing. When we hear sermons and when

(21:23):
we have difficulty, we come to that point and it
seems like it's short circuited. You need to know why,
because you're broken and you need fixed or repaired.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
I've seen it a thousand times in my ministry.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
God speaks to us directly, clearly in a message we know,
and we get this overwhelming sense we want to obey.
We want to give you everything.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
God. It's hard because we're broken inside. We gotta be fixed.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
We got to be put back together again, or we'll
never go past this mediocre life.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Look at the board, Look at it. We wrote that.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
We wrote how God has blessed us with more than
we need. And then we came back the next week
and we wrote what we're willing to sacrifice in order
that the Kingdom of God may advance in the world.
I told you I wasn't gonna read them, but I
got weak and I found it very interesting. One woman
wrote this, I'm gonna sacrifice. I'm gonna give up my

(22:20):
husband's cable. That's not quite what I had in mind.
Those steps are hard to take, but I want you
to know when you hear truths that we're hearing. When
God decides to communicate to us in a very special way,
oftentimes that truth does not penetrate deepen our soul to

(22:42):
the point of action. Because we're broken, we need repaired.
And as much as we want to do the good,
the intentions are good, the motivations are pure. I want
you to never forget what I'm about to say as
long as you know me. Remember this Satan is real.
He knows where to get you and the right point

(23:03):
that you get to where you're gonna put that into
your life and you're gonna go another level. You're gonna
cross over. He sucker punches you. He hits you right
in that area that he knows you're weak. He's ready
as soon as you say, man, I'm gonna do it,
I'm gonna change move.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
It comes from the back. You don't even see it coming,
because he knows.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
If he just hammers you there in the place you
haven't been healed, in the place you haven't given to God.
That mother, You've never forgiven that father who abused you.
You keep trying to earn his approval. He's never gonna
give it. That husband that betrayed you, that illness that's physical,
that thing in your life you're addicted to.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
He just keeps hammering it every time. He says.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
You think you're gonna make changes, No, you're not, because
I'm gonna destroy you.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right here and there.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Let me tell you you can't fix yourself. There's only
one answer for you, the grace of God and Jesus
healing you.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
You've been listening to today with Jeff. Thanks for joining us.
Next time we'll bring you the rest of this message
from Pastor Jeff.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
The folks, I don't judge you, so don't judge me.
Some of you are like me.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
And there's times in your life when you enter those
waters of deep depression. There's a long list of reasons.
I don't know why. I just know it's real. There
are times in my life I'm afraid I'm gonna fail
as a father. I'm gonna fail as your pastor. Then
I'll get to the end of my life and have
a long list of regrets some things I didn't do.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I need Jesus to help me. You need Jesus to
hell you.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
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Speaker 1 (24:37):
You everything.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
We'll bring this Today, Today, Today, Today with Jeff Fines