Turning Point - David Jeremiah

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
How will people be saved during the tribulation period with
the Holy Spirit and the Church both absent from the earth.
The answer lies in a pair of men from the
Old Testament. Today on Turning Point, Doctor David Jeremiah continues
his series in Revelation by making a strong case for
the identity of the two Witnesses. To introduce that message

(00:27):
and to set the stage for this development.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Here's David, and thank you for joining us today. This
is a dramatic section of the prophetic Book of Revelation.
Here in the eleventh chapter, we are introduced to two men,
and the eyes of the world will be focused on
these two men who call Jerusalem to account for her

(00:50):
sinful ways. In the entire world, we'll see what happens
every day through international television or some other means we
don't even know about. The two witnesses will bring judgment
and ultimately conviction to a lost and perishing world. It's
a story you don't want to miss, and we're going
to talk about it as we open our bibles to

(01:12):
Revelation chapter eleven. Did you know that Turning Point has
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(01:33):
for every day of the week Monday through Friday, one
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This is one of the ways we want to add

(01:54):
value to your life as a Christian, as someone who
is contemplating becoming a Christian. So be sure to ask
for your copy of Turning Points magazine and devotional when
you call a right Turning Point. Today, we are talking
about the two Witnesses, and we're talking about who they are.
In this lesson. We will do that, but more important,

(02:16):
we need to understand what they will do. They will
bring conviction to a lost and perishing world, and they
remind us of the power of the Gospel, and we're
going to study that right now on this edition of
Turning Point.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
It seems like every week I say this is one
of the most important passages in the Book of Revelation.
I need to tell you that the eleventh chapter of
the Book of Revelation has been heralded by many of
the great scholars as undoubtedly one of the most difficult
in all of the book. Now I understand some of
the reasons for the difficulties that may be located within

(02:55):
these verses, but it seems to me that there are
three essential underlying presuppositions which make this passage understandable. The
first one is that it is an essentially Jewish chapter.
Notice as you read through the references to the Holy City,
to the Temple, to the furniture of the Temple, we

(03:16):
are not talking here about the Church. We're talking about
a time in the future when the Jews will be
back in the center of God's plan. Secondly, we have
to keep in mind that this is a prophetic chapter.
This is not to be understood historically. When this chapter
was written by John, there wasn't even a temple in existence.

(03:37):
The temple that was in existence before the writing of
this had been destroyed. This whole chapter anticipates a time
in the future. It is not about anything that's happened
in the past. Thirdly, we need to come to this
chapter and understand it in a literal way. We get
into great trouble when we symbolize things that don't need

(03:59):
to be symbolized, and when we allegorize things that don't
need to be allegorized. And let me just tell you
right up front that in this chapter, the great city
is the city of Jerusalem. The time periods are actual
periods of days and months, the two witnesses are actual people,
the earthquake is real, the seven thousand men who die
in the earthquake are seven thousand real men. And the

(04:22):
resurrection and ascension of the two witnesses actually will occur. Now,
there is a time sequence given to us at the
beginning of the chapter that is very important. Please note
that the eleventh chapter begins with the word and and
this is a continuation of all that has happened in
the tenth chapter.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
And there was given unto me a read like unto
a rod.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
And the Angel stood saying, rise and measure the Temple
of God and the altar, and them that worship therein,
and the court which is without the temple, leave out
and measure it not, for it is given unto the
gentiles these two verses which we have just read, Verses
one and two give to to us the place for
the events which are to follow.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
And there is a reference here to a temple, a
temple that is to be measured. Now.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
The temple that is mentioned in Revelation eleven in these
first two verses is the temple that is going to
be built by the Israelites when they're regathered to the nation.
As they are being regathered now, we are told that
in this temple that they build during the Tribulation period,
the anti Christ is going to break his covenant with

(05:30):
the Jews, and he's going to say, listen.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
You need to worship the way you worship. I'll help you.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
We'll build a temple, and you can go back to
having your Jewish sacrifices and your oblations, and you can
come to the temple and I will help you.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
I will make that possible for you.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
But in the middle of the Tribulation, at the three
and a half year mark, the Antichrist is going to
break that covenant and he's going to turn that Tribulation
temple over to himself, and he is going to have
an image of the beast put up in the Temple,
and they're going to worship idols there, And the most

(06:07):
profane thing that any Jew could ever imagine is the
worship of an idol in the Holy Temple. Now, John
is asked in the beginning of the eleventh chapter to
act out the revelation from God. He is asked to
take a rod or a red which is like a rod,
and he is asked to measure the temple in Jerusalem.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
A strange thing.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Now, this was not so that God could find out
how long it was and how white it was. This
has nothing to do with validating the dimensions of the Temple.
It was an instruction that goes along with judgment. And
what God is saying to John in this passage is this,
I want you to measure the temple out. In essence,

(06:49):
I'm telling you this whole section, this whole universe of
the Jewish Temple and all that's involved in it is
going to be judged, and I want you to measure
it out for judgment. Any passages in the Old Testament
where measuring out is a symbolism or an idiom for judging.
So what God is saying to John is this, this

(07:10):
Jewish court is going to be judged. This Jewish celebration
is going to be judged. Now, this whole experience at
the beginning of the chapter sets the stage and it
puts together the setting for what's going to follow and
what's going to happen in the next verses. Notice now
as we come to the third verse, John has been

(07:33):
told he is to measure out the temple for judgment.
Now God is giving to him in the third verse
this prophecy concerning the Two Witnesses. I must say, this
is one of the most fascinating prophecies I have read
up to this point, and I like to imagine the Bible.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Do you do that. I've got the.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Whole thing fantasized out so I can figure out what
it's going to be like, and I want to kind
of walk with you through this whole scenario that's going
to happen. Now, let me let me set the time
schedule for you. There's a great deal of debate about
where the two Witnesses fall into the tribulation period. We
have twice in this passage a time reference of forty

(08:10):
two months, and then we have it translated into days.
Does the two witness prophecy belong in the first half
of the tribulation, or does it belong in the last half.
And I am not going to be dogmatic about it,
but I believe what the scripture teaches is this that
as soon as the Tribulation begins and the covenant is
made with the Jewish people, that these two witnesses will

(08:31):
begin to preach the Gospel everywhere throughout the entire world
of the Jewish people as God's witnesses to them. Now
we read that these two witnesses verse three, and I
will give power under my two witnesses, and they shall
prophesy one thousand, two hundred and three score days clothed
in sackclaw. Now, the argument over the two witnesses centers

(08:55):
on about five things, and so I just want to
walk with you through this little outline of these two witnesses.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
First of all, I want to remind.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
You that they are people. The two witnesses are people.
They are not the old in the New Testament. They
are not the law and the prophets. They are real
people who are heard and handled and hated, and whose
dead bodies lie in the street for three and a
half days after they've been killed. And these witnesses are

(09:23):
seen wearing sackcloth, which is consistently presented in the scripture
as an outward expression of mourning or repentance. For instance,
Jacob put on sackcloth when he found out what had
happened to his son Joseph, Do you remember that? And
David put on sackcloth when he heard about Abner's untimely murder.
The two witnesses are called here in the text, the

(09:46):
two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the
Lord of the Earth verse four.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
I wish we had.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Time to go back to the book of Zechariah and
outline all of the deptail of that prophecy. But careful
study of the content of Zachariah points out that in
that prophecy there were also two witnesses, Joshua and Zerubbable.
And God uses the candlestick in the olive tree as
a picture of them, the candlestick which burned brightly, and

(10:16):
the olive tree which produced the oil which was burned
in the candelabra. And it is a picture of the
fact that these two witnesses are going to shine in
the darkness of the tribulation period, and they're going to
be fueled by the holy oil of the Spirit of God,
and they're going to be a bright, shining testimony to
everyone where they go.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
They are people.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
It's unbelievable what commentators have tried to do to take
away from the witnesses their personalities. They are individual people,
and I think we know who they are. At least
I think I know who they are. They are not
only people, they are prophets. The Bible says they shall
prophesy in the days of their prophecy. These two prophets

(11:02):
will prophesy. Now the word PROPHESI here doesn't mean necessarily
tell the future. Only that's part of it. They're going
to be preachers, two hell fire and brimstone fundamentalist preachers
on the loose. One commentator said, two Jesus freaks out
there telling everybody what's going to happen. Now, it's interesting

(11:25):
that there are two of them, two witnesses. The Old
Testament says by the mouth of two witnesses shall a
thing be established. God often used two to establish a matter.
I couldn't help but notice as I was studying that
there were two angels that testified to the resurrection of
Jesus Christ. There were two men in white who testified
to his ascension. Often God dispatched men in twos. Have

(11:47):
you ever thought about that? Just think through the Bible.
Joshua and Caleb, Moses and Aaron Zerebebel and Joshua, Peter
and John, Paul, and Silas, Timothy and Titus. And when
he sent out the disciples, Jesus sent them out, how
two by two? And when he sent out the seventy
how did he send them out two by two?

Speaker 4 (12:06):
God has a thing with.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Twos, And He's got two witnesses now in the tribulation. Now,
the question that has created debate among most prophecy students
for years is centered around who these two witnesses are.
Most of the people that have studied it and have
read the Bible believe that one of the witnesses is Elijah,

(12:27):
the prophet reincarnated. I believe that's true. And let me
tell you some reasons why. First of all, hold your
place in Revelation and go back to the last book
of the Old Testament, the Book of Malachi. And here
is a prophecy that I believe is being fulfilled right
here in the eleventh chapter of the Book of Revelation,
in the last word of the Old Testament before the

(12:50):
four hundred silent years. There is a prophecy in chapter three,
verses one to three, and then it's repeated in chapter four.
Watch carefully, behold, I will send my messenger verse one
of chapter three, and he shall prepare the way before me,
and the Lord whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to
his temple, even the messenger of the Covenant, whom ye

(13:12):
delight in.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
Behold, he shall come, Saith, the Lord of hosts.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
But who may abide the day of his coming, and
who shall stand when he appears? For he is like
a refiner's fire and a fuller soap. And he shall
sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver. And
he shall purify the sons of Levi and purge them
as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the
Lord and offering in righteousness. Now go over to verse
five and six. Behold, I will send you Elijah, the prophet.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
When is he going to do that?

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of
the Lord?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's the great tribulation? And he shall turn the heart
of the fathers to the children, and the heart of
the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite
the earth with a curse. So that prophecy that Elijah
is going to come again before Jesus comes back is
being fulfilled here in the eleventh chapter. Do you remember
that in the Passover the Jewish people set a cup

(14:07):
on the table and they call it what Elijah's cup?
Why do they do that because every Orthodox Jew knows
this prophecy, and every Jew knows that before the Messiah comes,
Elijah must come first. And you remember when John the
Baptist was preaching in the New Testament. They thought John
the Baptist was Elijah. Why because what was his message?

(14:30):
Prepare ye the way of the Lord. Behold the Lamb
of God which cometh to take away the sin of
the world. A lot of people believe that John the
Baptists fulfilled the prophecy of Malachi three. But that is impossible.
You know why because there was a group of Jews
in the first chapter of John who went to ask
John some questions, and they said to him, John, are
you Elijah? And he said no, So I mean that

(14:51):
settles it. He not Elijah. Elijah is coming back in
the Tribulation. And I believe that one one of these witnesses.
Is Elijah coming back to prepare for the Lord. That's
just one reason. Let me give you the second reason. Now,
listen carefully. Elijah did not experience death, isn't that true?

(15:12):
He went to heaven in a whirlwind of fire, and
thus he could come back and die because he hasn't
died yet. Right, it is appointed unto man wants to die,
and after that the judgment, I know that's weak.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Right.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
The third thing that makes me think.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Elijah's one of the witnesses is that he uses in
the Tribulation the same sign that he used when he
was a prophet.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
What does it say in the.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Eleventh chapter that he did he had the power to
cause it to quit raining?

Speaker 4 (15:43):
He stopped the rain.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
What is Elijah known for in his prophecy of the
Old Testament? When he got ahabs so mad at him
because he made it stop raining for three and a
half years, And he's going to do it again in
the Tribulation, all right. The fourth reason why I think
that this is Elijah is because the period of drought
in Elijah's day first King seventeen one was the same

(16:06):
duration as the time of the ministry of the witnesses
here in Revelation eleven.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
How long was that?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Three and one half years forty two months? And you
can get the days if you want them. And number five,
has Elijah ever appeared after he died? Did he not
do it already once? Who was it that came to
the amount of transfiguration when our Lord was transfigured?

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Who was it?

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Class Elijah and who else? And that's the second witness.
Not everybody agrees with that, but that's what I believe.
There's general agreement among most scholars that the first witness
is Elijah, but some folks believe that the other witness
is Enoch because he's one of the other men of
the Old Testament that didn't have to die. For instance,

(16:51):
I have a quote about Enoch now concerning the other
of the two witnesses. I am inclined to agree with
those teachers who identify him as Enoch. Enich, who lived
before the flood, was translated without seeing death. Inasmuch as
Christ is the only person ever to put on immortality
and Enoch was translated without experiencing immortality, both must return

(17:12):
to die. Like Elijah. Enoch was a prophet of judgment,
and this is consistent with the ministry of the two
witnesses who prophesied judgment. I don't believe it's Enoch because
I can't imagine what his ministry would be in the
tribulation period in conjunction with Elijah.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
But I'm not going to argue with you.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
I'm just going to tell you why I'm right, all right,
Moses was the other witness I believe. First of all,
Moses and Elijah have been together once already on the
amount of transfiguration, so they have learned how to work together.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
Right.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Number two, Moses did the second half of the miracles,
of which Elijah did the first half. Look down in
your bibles in the eleventh chapter and the sixth verse.
These two witnesses have power or to shut heaven that
it rained not in the days of their prophecy. That's Elijah.
And they have power over waters, to turn them to blood,

(18:09):
and to smite the earth with all plagues as often
as they will.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
That's Moses.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
So you got Elijah doing part of it and Moses
do in the other part. Now it's interesting watch carefully.
Moses died, but where did they bury him? There is
a mystery about the burial of Moses's body. The body
of Moses was preserved by God so that he might

(18:34):
be restored Deuteronomy thirty four, five and six.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
You'll find that you can look at that later.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
I've always thought that the reason God didn't tell anybody
where they buried Moses is so the Jews wouldn't shut
up a shrine over there, which they have done so
wonderfully with all of the grace. Can you imagine how
if they knew where Moses was buried? Can you imagine
what the Jews would do with that? They would worship
that as a shrine. But I think there's a better reason.

(18:59):
In fact, if you want an interesting discussion, hold your
place in Revelation and go back to the ninth verse
in the Book of Jude, and don't ask me what chapter,
because there's only one Jude nine. It says in the
ninth verse. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil,
he disputed about the body of Moses, and he durst

(19:22):
not bring against him a railing accusation, but said the
Lord rebuke. Now, what would Michael the archangel and the
devil be discussing about the body of Moses? Why would
they care about Moses's body. Well, I think God was
holding Moses's body in obeyance for this reappearance, and the
Devil thought he could scuttle the program, and he and
Michael got into it over it, and they're having a discussion.

(19:44):
You say, is that crazy? No, that's not crazy. And
I'm not the only crazy person who thinks that. There
are a lot of folks who think that that that
whole thing had to do with Moses and what God
had planned for him in the future. And Michael and
the Devil were discussing that whole thing in our arguing
about it. And of course, when you think about the
Old Testament bringing testimony, and remember, now, please carefully remember

(20:07):
what kind of a period is this that we're dealing with.
It's Jewish. The Church is gone, has nothing to do
with the Age of Grace. We are back under the
Old Testament law. In essence, we're dealing with the Jewish economy.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
And what do the Jews understand.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
They understand the law and the prophets, and Moses is
the law and Elijah is the prophet, and so these
two witnesses come. Now, please understand me. I've joked with
you a little bit about who these witnesses are. It
is not possible to prove conclusively who they are. They
will be two strong witnesses, and it seems to me

(20:45):
that there is good reason to believe that they may
be Elijah and Moses reincarnated for that particular moment of time.
But even if they are not Elijah and Moses, they
are very much like Elijah and Moses, and they have
the same kind of ministry. They are people, they are prophets. Notice, third,
they are powerful. The Bible says that they are given

(21:08):
unbelievable power by God. Remember, now they are going out
to preach the gospel, and the people to whom they
are preaching are hostile people. The corruption of that day
is overwhelming. The last thing in the world anybody wants
to listen to is a fundamentalist, fire breathing preacher. And
so if they're gonna make it, if they wouldn't make

(21:30):
it through the very first day of preaching, they have
to be given supernatural power. And we find that in
verses three and verses five and six. Now, let me
talk to you a little bit about their power. First
of all, the power of their preaching. I like to
think about these guys and what they're going to preach.
And I can't tell you everything that will be on
their agenda, but I'd like to suggest to you that

(21:52):
when they come on the scene dressed in sackcloth, day
after day, as the word gets out and it's spread
abroad through the press, yes, and through television and radio
and all the rest, they are going to be on
the front page of major newspapers because they are going
to create a stir. The excitement will grow as the
hatred for these two is generated. And they are going

(22:15):
to preach. And what are they going to preach? Well,
I think first of all, they're going to preach like this.
They're going to say that the Lord Jesus Christ, who
has been rejected, is the lord of all the earth.
And they will say, as Elijah said back in his ministry,
Remember when he stood before Ahab at the court, he said,
as Jehovah, the God of Israel, liveth before whom I stand,

(22:38):
there shall not be due nor reign these years. But
according to my word, you're going to walk right up
in front of the people who are in charge and say, listen,
I'm telling you it's not going to rain till I
say it's going to rain. Well, the first time you
hear that, you say, take this man away. But when
it doesn't rain for a few days in dry, arid Palestine,

(23:01):
would you go find.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
That guy who was here. I need to talk to him.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
They're going to testify unsparingly of human wickedness, and they're
not going to be afraid.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
They're gonna say it right to their face.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
You know, you probably think, once in a while, I
get carried away and I'm a little bit of a
judgment preacher. And I don't think I am. But I
want to tell you something. I'm nothing compared to these guys.
I try to be loving and gracious, and kindness is
the age of grace. But these guys have no grace
at all. They will walk up to people, put their
finger in their face and tell them what terrible scoundrels
they are. They will tell them how rotten and sinful

(23:35):
and dirty they are. And most of these people aren't
going to think that's too great. They're going to generate
unbelievable hostility with their preaching. They will tell these people
to their faces just how bad they really are.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Someone has said, until you believe that you have sinned,
you're not going to ask for grace. Whether there won't
be any doubt in Jerusalem when the two witnesses are
there has taken place. They will bring judgment upon this
city and it will look as if they pay for
it with their lives. But not so. It's not what
it seems. You've got to watch all the way through

(24:11):
to the end of this series before you see what
really happens. We'll find out more about this when we
meet together tomorrow, but for right now, let me just
tell you there are some important things for you to
remember as you listen to this program. We count on
you for your support and encouragement, and one of the
ways you can do that is through your involvement with
our resource program during this month. Our resource is a

(24:33):
brand new two hundred and twenty eight page vote called
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picking out some of the favorite things. We want you
to know. It's yours for the asking. When you send
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do it today and we'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
For more information on Doctor Jeremiah series, Escape the Coming Night.
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(25:41):
you visit our website Davidjeremiah dot org slash Radio. This
is David Michael Jeremiah. Join us tomorrow as we continue
the series Escape the Coming Night on Turning Point with
Doctor David Jeremiah