May 16, 2025 • 33 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afghanistan is it's not only a tribal society, it's a
community based culture. So it's really hard to know something
that only you know. You know what I'm saying, it
would experience something that only you experience. Or let's say
someone finds out because he or she has now declared
their faith, you know that I'm now father of the
Lord Jesus Christ. There's going to be some backlash. You
(00:20):
can get it in Afghanistan, sadly, on all levels, from
within your own family, from within your community, from within
the mosque, the local place of worship, religiously, even politically,
from the government, because in the Taliband's mind, all of
that's supposed to be integrated together.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as sheep among wolves. Jesus's words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Joint host Todd Nettleton is we hear
their inspiring stories and learn how we can help right
(00:59):
now on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Welcome Again, to the Voice of the Martis Radio. We
are excited this week we have a return guest. John
Weaver is an author. He is a long term gospel
worker in the nation of Afghanistan and he is back
with us on Voice of the Martich Radio this week. John,
Welcome back to the O Radio.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Thank you, Tom. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I have been looking forward to this conversation. Let's start
out just give us an update on what is happening
in Afghanistan. When we know the Taliban took over. They
are now the government of the country. What is it
like in Afghanistan and what does that mean for Christians?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Well, it's still Afghanistan, So I want to say it's
still a beautiful place.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I mean, it is a very.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Unique country with mountains, you know, and yet deserts and rivers,
and it still is a beautiful place. Cobble's a bustling
city now with melligans of people, which it always has been.
But in many ways there's some things that haven't changed.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
In that sense. Afghans are still Afghans.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
You know, there's still a lot of hospitality and you know,
you go to bus markets, you know, bazaars we as
we call them, However, the situation is different in the
sense of now the Taliban are not just fighting to
have power, they actually have the full control of the country.
And you know, Todd, they're doing the best they can.
But it's more challenging than ever. I mean, it's hard
(02:19):
to unpack. Well what do you mean by that, Well,
the economy is not so great, you know, the security
is not so great. I mean, some of the things
that they would probably like to do to improve the country,
they don't really have the capacity and the support to
do so.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
And we talked about it the last time you were here.
The skill set of being a mountain warrior is not
the same as being an administrator of a city or
a courthouse or you know, the electricity. Yes, those are
very different skill sets. And you have these guys who
have been mountain warriors for decades and now they are
(02:52):
the city administrator. They are the guy trying to keep
the power on. And like you say, it's that's that's
a hard transition.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
It is.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And most of them, you know, coming from Pashtu tribes
so and they're also coming from a specific you know,
perspective of Islam Sunni Islam, and a lot of their
approach to thing is based on their grid of their
ethnic background or their religious view, which therefore also influences
what they're trying to do. So in that case, it
is more Islamic now than it ever has been. That
(03:22):
would be their wish for it to be as pure
as Islamic as they think what you know, in their
term interpretation, But that affects other millions of other Muslims
who aren't so radical or conservative in their you know,
Muslim worldview and their practice as the Taliban are.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It has seemed to me watching obviously from a distance,
there were a lot of things said before the Taliban
took power, a lot of promises made, you know, it's
not going to be like it was before. No, we
we're okay with girls going to school. You know, we're
okay with people of who aren't Muslims. It seems like
(03:59):
a lot of those promises have sort of fallen by
the wayside since they actually have the power and are
in charge.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yes, and sadly that's part of the political you know jargon,
that it's easy for someone to say, well, we'll do
this or will not do this, but then time passes
and influences happen. And then you realize, no, we are
going to do really what we want to do.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And what we believe.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And that's that's also the nuance of Islam, that it's
a very complex worldview. And so women are not oppressed
all over the country, but in the general sense, they
have made some decisions that they said we wouldn't do that.
Now look like they're oppressing women and not giving you know,
full human rights to women and not the educational opportunities
(04:44):
and the other opportunities. And that's coming again from their
strict Muslim grid, which sometimes is going to surface at
some point or another, even though they might say no, no,
we're not going to do that, or you know whatever.
And I know it's been hard for governments. I just
read this this morning. The Ussia now has acknowledged the
Taliban as the official government of Afghanistan. Well, it's been
(05:05):
the official government of Afghanistan for a.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Few years, but because of these worldview.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Differences, some you know, nations haven't acknowledged them. I don't
know how I feel about that politically, I'm not a
political person, but they are the official power in the country,
and maybe then it is advantageous for other countries to
find the best way to work with them for the
betterment of the country.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
You lived in Afghanistan on nine to eleven, so at
that point, the Taliban was in charge of the country.
How similar is it today to what it was then?
I mean, have they basically restored how it was back
then or is it different in light of you know,
twenty plus years and a war and all of those things.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, it's similar in some ways. But prior to nine
to eleven, the Taliban didn't control the whole country. The
civil war was still happening. So let's say they controlled
ninety percent of the country leading up to the events
of nine to eleven. That means they weren't officially, you know,
the recognized government govern the whole country, right, But in
the places where they controlled, Yes, those places back twenty
(06:09):
plus years ago would be similar now to the places
that they because they similar in their approach to life.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, okay, so their philosophy hasn't evolved much over the
last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I don't think so in my opinion. Now, other things
have evolved. Some of them speak English now and just
the influence of that. Yeah, it can adjust some things,
but not really. Back to the root of what you
really believe. If you get into worldview type of stuff,
and also technology and you know, digital world and being
able to travel and you know all that globalization, it
(06:42):
does influence, don't misunderstand me, but it doesn't always affect
the root of your worldview.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, no, that makes sense. So what does this look
like now? If if I'm in Afghanistan, I'm in kabble,
or I'm in a village, and I'm a follower of
Jesus Christ. Maybe nobody else knows that except me. But
what does that look like now with the Taliban and control.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, well, if no one else knows but you, then
then things are okay. But as well as all as
the listeners know, Afghanistan is a it's not only a
tribal society. It's a community based culture. So it's really
hard to live out what you just said, to know
something that only you know. You know what I'm saying,
or experience something that only you experience. Eventually, they have
(07:27):
a proverb that the walls have mice and the mice
have ears. You know, eventually someone's going to find out
or as we know as followers of Jesus because of
the transformation we've experienced. We want to share God's love
with others. So either way, let's say someone finds out
because the person's now living differently, acting differently, responding differently,
(07:48):
just being salt and light.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
As we would say as believers.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Or let's say someone finds out because he or she
has now declared their faith, you know that I'm now
a father of the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, either way,
they're going to be some backlash. It just depends on
where they live in the country.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So it's a tribal society.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So if they're coming from a Pashtun background, the backlash
is going to be more because that's again ethnically more conservative,
you know, in terms of Islam and Sunni Islam. If
they're Hazaras, they're Shiahs in terms of their Islamic worldview.
They're already a minority people group. And so the point
is they might find some family or friends more sympathetic,
(08:29):
meaning not so antagonistic. If they were to live in
a way that someone might say.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Hey, what's happened to you? You know, I'm saying what you know?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And then they were to say, well, I've discovered something
that's changed my life, and then they begin sharing more.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
That person may even.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Be interested in what they're saying. On the flip side,
depending upon their audience, that could be more conservative if
they find out then then the backlash can come from
your immediate family, from your community, from the religious you know,
groups which are This is where it's hard and atter
culture to separate what's religion and what's culture. It's kind
(09:03):
of all mixed together. So you can get it in Afghanistan, sadly,
on all levels, from within your own family, from within
your community, from within the mosque, the local place of worship, religiously,
even politically, from the government, because in the Taliban's mind,
all of that's supposed to be integrated together.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Right, But the likelihood is before I hear from the Taliban,
I'm going to hear from someone right around, like my
neighbor or my dad, somebody right around me. Yes, long
before the Taliban's ever involved.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yes, you're exactly right, And often it depends on how
that local believer approaches it and how they respond and
how they present it.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
We're talking this week on Voice to Marties Radio with
John Weaver. He is an author, a longtime gospel worker
in Afghanistan. His book is called Inside Afghanistan and you
should order a copy and read it. It is fantastic. So, John,
how is ministry happening? Because I know people are coming
to faith there. You mentioned dream that's one way, but
(10:02):
how is ministry happening right now? Is it primarily that
one on one conversation? Is it coming from the outside
through internet, broadcast, whatever else? How are Afghanis meeting Jesus?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well, since you mentioned the book Inside Afghanistan, I do
want to encourage the listeners who haven't read that there's
so much that they would learn and just be encouraged.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
By what the question you just asked.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I also wrote another book that's more about my journey
called A Flame on the front Line, where I also
talk about, in reference to your question, interacting with Muslims
and sharing with them. And most of the listeners might
remember my wife and I met and married in Afghanistan,
and so we have a love story book called Najiba,
which is my wife, it's her Afghan name. And we
(10:47):
answer some of the questions as well in this in
terms of how God was at work in the context
of us sharing through.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And we had we had a conversation about the wedding
on VOM Radio. I want to I will give you
a link in the show notes this week. Totally should
go listen to that story. A completely culturally Afghan wedding
and a Christian God honoring Jesus honoring wedding in one thing.
It was amazing story. So you got to go listen
to that conversation and get a copy of the book. Najeeba,
(11:15):
So talk about how ministry is happening.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So right now, the first place we would start is
the one on one just like you described earlier. So
so I'm Abdullah and I live in a in any
place in Afghanistan.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Could be cable, could be whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Right, But of course some of the people listening to
this are going to think, I don't mean this real.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You what I'm saying this is real, But this is Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Don't go looking for Abdullah.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Any any Afghan could be called Mohammad or Abdullah.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So we'll call we'll call him Abdullah.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And I write stories about this in the in these
books as well. So Abdullah now has well, it depends
on what happened to him. So in his case, he
may have met someone like us. There are people like
us in the country that are loving and serving Afghans,
and they're living out their faith as humanitarian aid. So
let's say I'll do the met One of them piqued
his interest because he learned something a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
The Word of God now is available.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
In languages that are spoken in Afghanistan, not just in
printed form, you know, but digitally on your phone and
through other social media outlets. So let's say he got
access to the scriptures that we would say God's word,
you know, somehow or another. And the process is he
becomes a believer. Maybe he had a dream, maybe he
did have a dream about the man in white. In
the process, generally speaking, when you hear their testimonies, they
(12:32):
talk about the life of another.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Believer who influenced them. They talk about prayer.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Maybe someone offered to pray for me or or encouraged
me to pray. Because God here's our prayers. He understands
all languages, and the Word of God would be involved
somewhere in that, either a testimony or the scriptures if
they could read it, or in a digital format. The
Jesus Film. Millions of Muslims you know, have watched that.
And then there's this discontent or dissatisfaction that kind of
(12:59):
stirs up in them. Yeah, and then the dreams and
visions is another component of that. Anyway, So I'll do
this now, Follower of Jesus, Well, it doesn't matter where
he works. He lives in a house and he works somewhere,
or maybe sadly, he may not work. There's a lot
of unemployment, sadly. But the point is he has an oicosts,
he has a network of family of friends. No one's
(13:21):
an island, especially in a community based culture. He knows somebody, right,
and let's imagine now he's praying for the somebodies that
he knows, which could be his own family, could be
his neighbors, could be co workers, he could be at
a university, so it could be his fellow students. And
in natural conversations, spiritual things come up among Muslims, more
(13:42):
so maybe with Abdullah, because he's very sensitive to that.
And Jesus said, follow me and I'll make you fishers
of men. So he's open and sensitive to that. But
the way it comes out is one on one. He's
not going to go broadcast it. He's not going to
call some big meeting, you know, what I'm saying, He's not.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Going to stand up in university class and say, guess what, Yes,
I'm following Jesus.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And he probably at this point might not even use
social media, even though I do want to remind the
listeners in this something can to really pray into, not
just in Afghanistan but all throughout the Muslim world. Most
households have a phone. You know, it's amazing. I don't
know the number, but we're talking about twenty plus million
people in Afghanistan have access to a phone.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And what's on the phone? Access to spiritual things. Now
that doesn't mean they're all finding those things, but they're
actually they're actually there. But my point is Abdullah may
have access to those, but he might not be publicly
broadcasting that on his Facebook page, you know what I'm
saying type of thing yeah yet right, or maybe he
is using social media one on one to communicate, you know,
(14:47):
with his interested friends or family. But the point is,
step by step, kind of seed by seed that scriptures say,
some plant and some water. He's going to enter into
discussions like that, and God's going to show him who's
who's open and who's not. And then the encouragement to
a duel is well, consider spending time with the person who,
(15:09):
whomever it might be that's open and prayerfully navigate that
relationship and those conversations to plant seeds. And they are
seeing other family and friends come to faith kind of
in a similar process the all lifestyle of a believer
being sought in light, prayer being offered, the Word of
God being shared in some format. Then they feel this discontent,
(15:30):
dissatisfaction with what their worldview is and the emptiness and
the kind of what they see around them that doesn't
really answer the inescapable questions of life that we would say,
the hopelessness that they feel. We use the word lost,
you know, being lost. That's not necessarily the word that
they come up with, but it's a similar And then
often Jesus then shows up in a a in a
(15:50):
way that's going to further reveal or confirm to them.
Sometimes it's even a dream like hey, read the read
the book that they mentioned, or yes the ngeal which
means the Gospel is true, or you know, yes I
Am the Way the Truth and the life type of
you know, or some directional vision or a confirmation revelation
type of vision from Jesus himself.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
The challenge for Abdullah and I want our listeners to
really catch a hold of this is every single one
of those conversations is potentially a persecution incident. Exactly like
every time he opens his mouth and says.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Hey, have you read the in jail?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Or hey, you know Lisa is mentioned in the Quran?
What do you think about Esa? Every single one of
those conversations potentially is life ending for him.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's right, that's right, and that's not only true in
a place like Afghanistan. That's in true in many many
countries that our listeners would know that that. Sadly, we
have brothers and sisters that are in prison. They've been
in prison for their faith, and you're right, it came
because they took a stand or just relationally shared their faith. Sometimes,
as I said, it's they stopped doing certain things and
(16:57):
start doing certain things, and therefore that kind of opens.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Them must start asking questions for scrutiny.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Or suspicion that people start asking questions.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But sometimes it's in the love of the love of
God that they've discovered, you know what I'm saying, The
love that compels them to go and share, But you're right,
in every circumstance like that, persecution is seconds away, exactly,
it is potentially possibly there.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yes, Yes, So I hope for those of you who
are listening, I hope that inspires your prayers this week
for our Afghan brothers and sisters, and like John mentioned
other countries as well, where every time they open this
door in conversation, it is potentially persecution. It is potentially
them getting locked in a room, or getting beaten or
(17:42):
even getting killed. And just think about I think about
the prayerfulness that they have to enter into those conversations with, Like, Lord,
are you sure is this the right time? Is this
the right person? Show me, Lord, who you have for
me to talk to and who it's okay to talk to.
One of the things John, that we talked about the
(18:04):
last time you were here was Afghan believers who left
the country after the Taliban took over, and some of
them wanting to go back. Yes, And the question mark
was what's going to happen when they show up at
customs and say, hey, here's my passport, I want to
come home. How's the Taliban going to deal with that?
(18:24):
Do you have an update on that? Are there Christians
who have been able to go back. Are there Christians
who've been prevented from going back? What's happening with that?
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Well, forst just to give the updates.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
So yes, So since August of twenty twenty one, I
mean tens of thousands of Afghans have left and they're
scattered all over the country. And yes, there have been
some that actually have gone back for various reasons. Family reasons,
you know, something to do with that. Faith reasons you
know are mixed in that way. I have not personally
(18:55):
occurred of those that have gone back that have experienced
a lot of trouble initially in terms of getting back
into the country. There have been others that have tried
to go back and things have actually happened.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
And as I.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Said, there are people that have been detained or in
prison or have been kicked out for various reasons. Because
when you have a new government beating to a new
different drum, they're going to approach things differently. But we
do know of Afghans who have gone back to Afghanistan
for various reasons, and we do know others that would
love to go back and are kind of waiting. Sometimes
it's like as people of faith, it's like waiting just
(19:30):
for God's timing of things, which sometimes comes out in
a practical logistical way. Well, if I don't have the
proper documents, of course you can't. You can't get a
plane ticket and travel back. You know what I'm saying
now that you've mentioned this and you maybe we're going
to ask it in the next question. There are deportations
that are happening as well, and so sadly there are
from Iran Afghans that have been forced to go back.
(19:53):
So to unpack the question, some are choosing to go back,
but a small small number, right, Some unfortunately, are being
forced to go go back from places like Iran, you know, Tajikistan,
maybe even Turkey a little bit farther away, but the
bordering countries for sure, Iran, Tajikistan and Pakistan. In that number,
it's tens of thousands that are being you know, sent
(20:14):
back to But back to the heart of your question,
some of them are believers as well, Yes, and the
human temptation is to give into fear. And I'm not
in their shoes, so I'm not trying to, you know,
speak to this. I just know that that would be
the human temptation, because I've heard it from some of
them as well. But yet God is the god you
know of immigration. In one sense this is not to
(20:36):
be political. But God has set the times into places,
the seasons, the movements of peoples that they might find Him,
because you know, we're not far from Him.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
In Him, we live and move and have our being
as Acts. Chapter seventeen says.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And just as some have years passed left the country
and had the greater accessibility to the Gospel and have
come believers, some of them now are being sent back,
whether by their own choice or by the circumstances that
they that they can't control. And our hope and our
trust is God and his mercy would provide for them
and use them as salt in lighten and witnesses.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
In their homeland, and protect them as they.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Go am in Yes, exactly amen. Amen.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
We're talking this week on Voice Smarties Radio with John Weaver.
He is a longtime gospel worker in Afghanistan as well
as an author. We will give you a link to
some of his books on our website vomradio dot net. John,
you mentioned the Afghans that have been forced out of
the country, and I know some of them have come
to America. Are there some places and I know your
(21:37):
family has been involved in welcoming and outreach and making sure, Hey,
we want to be sure while you're here you hear
the gospel. Are there some stories you can tell from
from churches or ministries that have really done a good
job of welcoming Afghans and being that connection point to
(21:57):
a local community and a local church and ultimately an
opportunity to say, hey, have you thought about Jesus.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, there are specific locations here in the United States
where followers of Jesus have welcome Mafcons, helped them get
you know, acclimated to life here, Someone's helping them learn English,
someone's helping them learn to drive, someone's helping their kids
navigate the school system, or a mixture of all of
those things. Well, what does that mean? Three to ten,
(22:24):
maybe even twelve believers followers of Jesus rubbing shoulders now
with this new Afghan family or families that are in
a city that they've never been in their lives. So
faith comes up, Spiritual conversations come up, Oh let's pray
about this comes up? Or yes, I'm sorry that you
know BB John your grandmother is sick, can stop and
(22:46):
pray for her? And also the practical thing of does
she need a doctor? You know, does she need medicine?
But faith comes out, spiritual things come out. Oh well,
that reminds me of a story. Can I tell you
a story?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
In Bible?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Stories you know come out, maybe even even the English lesson.
It might even reference you know, some vocabulary you know
from the Bible. So the point is seeds are being sown,
Love is being expressed, prayers being offered, Hospitality has been
you know, given and received both ways reciprocity, and then
other things are happening. God's spirit is working, His word
(23:18):
is becoming living and active. Sometimes they do ask, oh
do you go to church? And sometimes the church question
comes up, or sometimes it gets even more what we
would call discipleship oriented, and they say, hey, we can
meet at your house or in our house if you
want to learn more about God or learn more about
whatever the subject of you know, spiritual topic might be.
And so now there are places where there are Afghan
(23:40):
believers here in cities and the United States that did
not exist before. Some of them are in a local
church that would be more familiar to us but some
of them are doing things in their own house or
in tandem to a local church building because you still
have the language barrier. There's still a lot of Afghans,
not just here in America, in other countries, they have
not yet learn fluently the language of that country, say
(24:03):
in Brazil Portuguese, you know, so Afghans have to navigate
that here in America, you know, English, or Canada and
English or Germany German. So that you know, there's a
lot of Afghans that aren't fluent enough to worship, you know,
I'm saying in the local church language. So they're being encouraged,
even trained, even helped to do it in their local language.
(24:24):
And this is where the diasporas we called it, believers,
Afghan believers that were already scattered, they even have a
role in that, you know, when possible. They even have
a role in that social media does because again all
the technology now in that various Afghan languages, spiritual you know, resources,
and so that whole dynamic's happening in dozens of places
(24:44):
in the United States, but even dozens of other countries
outside of the United States. And that's why we would
say wherever Afghans are scattered. Now God is up to something.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
God does it work. So if there is someone listening
who says, hey, my church wants to or hey I
want to be a part of the at what would
next steps be for them? How would they kind of
stick a toe into that water.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, it kind of depends on where they're at in
their city, you know what I'm saying. But it could
be Catholic charities as in their city, or World Relief
is in their city, or other faith based you know groups,
or could even be another church in their city is
already doing something.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
It would kind of depend on their city.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So we would encourage them if there's that interest to
gather the what we call the coalition of the willing.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
So you got two or three or four or.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Five whatever from your little local church or your little
your Bible study whatever it might be, saying hey, God's
brought the nations to us, let's explore some possibilities. And
we would say, make it something that's birthed in prayer.
And then you have to kind of do a little
bit of research though, to find out in your local
city what's available. And course, you know, I'll offer myself,
(25:50):
you know, if anyone gets my book, my contact information
is in the back of my book. And so if
someone were to say, hey, you know, we live in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
You know what I'm saying, and you know, you know
what's going on in you know, so that I get
emails like that quite often, because even last night, joking
with the family I had dinner with one of the
(26:12):
Afghan men said, you know, now Afghans are everywhere, that's
what they say, you know Afghan how joy Afghans are everywhere.
They don't mean literally everywhere, but meaning because of this
diaspora scattering right now. I mean it's probably true Todd.
There there probably are only a handful of states that
don't have an Afghan population. Of our fifty states, I
(26:32):
mean there's only a handful. And so when you're talking
about cities, you're talking about dozens of cities you know
what I'm saying, that have now Afghan populations.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yes, well, and.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I know even Tulsa, Oklahoma, right down the road from US,
took in many families.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
There's hundreds of families in the Great You.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Might live in the middle of America like I do,
and there's Afghans close by that you can reach out
to John. I know you said earlier you're not a politician,
you're not into the politics. I do want to ask
a little bit of a political question because just recently,
the US Commission on International Religious Freedom recommended Afghanistan for
Country of Particular Concern status, which is a classification of
(27:11):
sort of the worst abusers of religious freedom. My question
is not about that. My question is about does that
matter to the Taliban when the US government or another
government criticizes or chastises them or says, hey, you should
be nicer to religious minorities. Does the Taliban care what
(27:32):
the rest of the world thinks or do they just
sort of say, well, you know, we don't care.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's a hard question to answer, but I think I
would say this, some of them do. Okay, So I
can't say a whole lot, but just speaking in general terms,
as we mentioned, in a place like Afghanistan, there are
times where people are detained, put in prison, or interrogated
or whatever, and we hear stories kind of like what
I'm just going to try to generalize. Now, Yeah, there
(27:58):
were all these you know, Tali unofficials because they're they're
in control of the government, you know, whether the guy
was a religious police guy or what I'm saying, or
an actual military police guy or whatever his role was.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
He had a gun and he put handcuffs on me.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Exactly that's exactly right. But then you also hear, but
I could tell some of them, not all of them,
some of them were a little bit more sympathetic. Interesting,
and then you want to wonder, well, why is that.
So I'm just gonna this is general. I'm gonna assume
they're all pushtumes. So therefore they all would see themselves
as Sunni Muslims conservative Sunni Muslims. But now something happens,
(28:35):
and I'm gonna say that the guy that had happened
to was not a pushtune. Okay, let's say he was
another another from another tribal group and say, so, my
point is, say they're in the process of what's happening
against him, there's three to seven people involved in it,
not necessarily all at one time. But he's got it,
you know, there's he's it's it's not just one person
that's gonna that's gonna be gonna do this. And often
(28:57):
we'll hear stories that somebody in that process was sympathetic,
and then you have to wonder why is that. Well,
I personally believe it's because God's created us all in
his image, and sometimes something happens in our hearts or
our spirits or our psyche and we realize, wait a second,
this guy might not be Poshtune, and he might not
(29:17):
believe what I believe, but he's created in the image
of God, and sometimes that happens. But I also think
the influence of social media, the influence of outside pressure,
you know what I'm saying, and the influence of political things.
I also think sometimes it's almost like Jesus said, those
that have ears to hear, let them hear. And so
I really do believe even among the Talibond, well, some
(29:40):
of them are coming to faith already because Jesus died
for everybody here, pursuing everybody. He's going to redeem his bride,
even among the Pashtuns, and there's resources available in their
languages as well. But I do think, back to those
that have ears to hear, let them hear, there are
some within the government, the Taliban government, who are mostly Poshtuns.
(30:01):
When they hear things like what you just said. I
do think it affects them.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
John, as we wrap up, we always try to equip
our listeners to pray. How can v on radio listeners
pray for Afghanistan this week.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Let's pray for Afghanistan this week for a sense of
peace and stability. Thinking in terms of the just the
country itself and knowing there's thirty five plus million people
in the country. Let's you know, that's that's more of
a general prayer. But let's pray specifically for the Taliban,
because as the scriptures instruct us to pray for those
in authority, they are the authority within the within the country.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
But let's pray for believers.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
There are believers there, I still think Todd, we can
say from most all the main tribes there are there
are believers there. Now their number may be less than
it other seasons, you know what I'm saying of history,
But the point is there are Poshtune believers.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
There are Hazara believers there.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
We can't it, can't hide it now, you know what
I'm saying. And so let's let's remember them. Let's remember
them now from from our interview here, Let's remember those
that are suffering and imprison as if we were as well,
there's that Body of Christ identifying fellowship, you know, in
that way, But the general prayer for the believers, for
their provisions, for their protection. As you know, listeners, you've
(31:12):
heard this from many people that've given interviews like this.
When we ask believers in other countries how can we help,
they all say, please pray for us. And because they
know God and Heaven hears our prayers and prayers. Is
so the point is I sometimes like to say pray
for them like.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
You would pray for yourself if you were in their situation.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So provision protection, you know, God's presence, but also for
opportunity to share their faith, that their number would increase,
because often, as you know you've heard me say ted,
I get asked, well, how many believers are there in Afghanistan? Well,
I don't know, only God knows, but I often say
there's not enough. There's not enough. There's not enough. You know,
Jesus said, I have many more sheep. So that'd be
(31:53):
the other expression of prayer, to pray for people to
come into the Kingdom in Afghanistan dreams and visions through
their raady, through technology, you know, through digital social media,
for the witness of the gospel to spread and bring
forth fruit in Afghanistan.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Amen, We've been talking this week on Voice of the
Martis Radio with John Weaver. We will give you links
to his books and more about him at our website,
Vomradio dot net. John. I have been looking forward to
this conversation. I always love having a conversation with you
and getting to share, getting to inspire people to pray
for Afghanistan. Thanks for being our guest this week on
(32:29):
Voice of the Martis Radio.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Thank you, Tom. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Thank you so much, and I hope you will be
back with us next week. We are going to talk
to Ty Scott. He leads vom's international ministry work in
East and Southern Africa. So we've talked today about how
God does at work in Afghanistan. We're going to talk
next week about how He is at work in Sudan
and Tanzania and some of the countries in Africa. I
(32:52):
know you want to be a part of that conversation,
so make sure you're back with us next week right
here on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.
Afghanistan is it's not only a tribal society, it's a
community based culture. So it's really hard to know something
that only you know. You know what I'm saying, it
would experience something that only you experience. Or let's say
someone finds out because he or she has now declared
their faith, you know that I'm now father of the
Lord Jesus Christ. There's going to be some backlash. You
(00:20):
can get it in Afghanistan, sadly, on all levels, from
within your own family, from within your community, from within
the mosque, the local place of worship, religiously, even politically,
from the government, because in the Taliband's mind, all of
that's supposed to be integrated together.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as sheep among wolves. Jesus's words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Joint host Todd Nettleton is we hear
their inspiring stories and learn how we can help right
(00:59):
now on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Welcome Again, to the Voice of the Martis Radio. We
are excited this week we have a return guest. John
Weaver is an author. He is a long term gospel
worker in the nation of Afghanistan and he is back
with us on Voice of the Martich Radio this week. John,
Welcome back to the O Radio.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Thank you, Tom. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I have been looking forward to this conversation. Let's start
out just give us an update on what is happening
in Afghanistan. When we know the Taliban took over. They
are now the government of the country. What is it
like in Afghanistan and what does that mean for Christians?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Well, it's still Afghanistan, So I want to say it's
still a beautiful place.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I mean, it is a very.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Unique country with mountains, you know, and yet deserts and rivers,
and it still is a beautiful place. Cobble's a bustling
city now with melligans of people, which it always has been.
But in many ways there's some things that haven't changed.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
In that sense. Afghans are still Afghans.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
You know, there's still a lot of hospitality and you know,
you go to bus markets, you know, bazaars we as
we call them, However, the situation is different in the
sense of now the Taliban are not just fighting to
have power, they actually have the full control of the country.
And you know, Todd, they're doing the best they can.
But it's more challenging than ever. I mean, it's hard
(02:19):
to unpack. Well what do you mean by that, Well,
the economy is not so great, you know, the security
is not so great. I mean, some of the things
that they would probably like to do to improve the country,
they don't really have the capacity and the support to
do so.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
And we talked about it the last time you were here.
The skill set of being a mountain warrior is not
the same as being an administrator of a city or
a courthouse or you know, the electricity. Yes, those are
very different skill sets. And you have these guys who
have been mountain warriors for decades and now they are
(02:52):
the city administrator. They are the guy trying to keep
the power on. And like you say, it's that's that's
a hard transition.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
It is.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And most of them, you know, coming from Pashtu tribes
so and they're also coming from a specific you know,
perspective of Islam Sunni Islam, and a lot of their
approach to thing is based on their grid of their
ethnic background or their religious view, which therefore also influences
what they're trying to do. So in that case, it
is more Islamic now than it ever has been. That
(03:22):
would be their wish for it to be as pure
as Islamic as they think what you know, in their
term interpretation, But that affects other millions of other Muslims
who aren't so radical or conservative in their you know,
Muslim worldview and their practice as the Taliban are.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It has seemed to me watching obviously from a distance,
there were a lot of things said before the Taliban
took power, a lot of promises made, you know, it's
not going to be like it was before. No, we
we're okay with girls going to school. You know, we're
okay with people of who aren't Muslims. It seems like
(03:59):
a lot of those promises have sort of fallen by
the wayside since they actually have the power and are
in charge.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yes, and sadly that's part of the political you know jargon,
that it's easy for someone to say, well, we'll do
this or will not do this, but then time passes
and influences happen. And then you realize, no, we are
going to do really what we want to do.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And what we believe.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And that's that's also the nuance of Islam, that it's
a very complex worldview. And so women are not oppressed
all over the country, but in the general sense, they
have made some decisions that they said we wouldn't do that.
Now look like they're oppressing women and not giving you know,
full human rights to women and not the educational opportunities
(04:44):
and the other opportunities. And that's coming again from their
strict Muslim grid, which sometimes is going to surface at
some point or another, even though they might say no, no,
we're not going to do that, or you know whatever.
And I know it's been hard for governments. I just
read this this morning. The Ussia now has acknowledged the
Taliban as the official government of Afghanistan. Well, it's been
(05:05):
the official government of Afghanistan for a.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Few years, but because of these worldview.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Differences, some you know, nations haven't acknowledged them. I don't
know how I feel about that politically, I'm not a
political person, but they are the official power in the country,
and maybe then it is advantageous for other countries to
find the best way to work with them for the
betterment of the country.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
You lived in Afghanistan on nine to eleven, so at
that point, the Taliban was in charge of the country.
How similar is it today to what it was then?
I mean, have they basically restored how it was back
then or is it different in light of you know,
twenty plus years and a war and all of those things.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, it's similar in some ways. But prior to nine
to eleven, the Taliban didn't control the whole country. The
civil war was still happening. So let's say they controlled
ninety percent of the country leading up to the events
of nine to eleven. That means they weren't officially, you know,
the recognized government govern the whole country, right, But in
the places where they controlled, Yes, those places back twenty
(06:09):
plus years ago would be similar now to the places
that they because they similar in their approach to life.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, okay, so their philosophy hasn't evolved much over the
last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I don't think so in my opinion. Now, other things
have evolved. Some of them speak English now and just
the influence of that. Yeah, it can adjust some things,
but not really. Back to the root of what you
really believe. If you get into worldview type of stuff,
and also technology and you know, digital world and being
able to travel and you know all that globalization, it
(06:42):
does influence, don't misunderstand me, but it doesn't always affect
the root of your worldview.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, no, that makes sense. So what does this look
like now? If if I'm in Afghanistan, I'm in kabble,
or I'm in a village, and I'm a follower of
Jesus Christ. Maybe nobody else knows that except me. But
what does that look like now with the Taliban and control.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, well, if no one else knows but you, then
then things are okay. But as well as all as
the listeners know, Afghanistan is a it's not only a
tribal society. It's a community based culture. So it's really
hard to live out what you just said, to know
something that only you know. You know what I'm saying,
or experience something that only you experience. Eventually, they have
(07:27):
a proverb that the walls have mice and the mice
have ears. You know, eventually someone's going to find out
or as we know as followers of Jesus because of
the transformation we've experienced. We want to share God's love
with others. So either way, let's say someone finds out
because the person's now living differently, acting differently, responding differently,
(07:48):
just being salt and light.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
As we would say as believers.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Or let's say someone finds out because he or she
has now declared their faith, you know that I'm now
a father of the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, either way,
they're going to be some backlash. It just depends on
where they live in the country.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So it's a tribal society.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So if they're coming from a Pashtun background, the backlash
is going to be more because that's again ethnically more conservative,
you know, in terms of Islam and Sunni Islam. If
they're Hazaras, they're Shiahs in terms of their Islamic worldview.
They're already a minority people group. And so the point
is they might find some family or friends more sympathetic,
(08:29):
meaning not so antagonistic. If they were to live in
a way that someone might say.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Hey, what's happened to you? You know, I'm saying what you know?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And then they were to say, well, I've discovered something
that's changed my life, and then they begin sharing more.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
That person may even.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Be interested in what they're saying. On the flip side,
depending upon their audience, that could be more conservative if
they find out then then the backlash can come from
your immediate family, from your community, from the religious you know,
groups which are This is where it's hard and atter
culture to separate what's religion and what's culture. It's kind
(09:03):
of all mixed together. So you can get it in Afghanistan, sadly,
on all levels, from within your own family, from within
your community, from within the mosque, the local place of worship, religiously,
even politically, from the government, because in the Taliban's mind,
all of that's supposed to be integrated together.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Right, But the likelihood is before I hear from the Taliban,
I'm going to hear from someone right around, like my
neighbor or my dad, somebody right around me. Yes, long
before the Taliban's ever involved.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yes, you're exactly right, And often it depends on how
that local believer approaches it and how they respond and
how they present it.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
We're talking this week on Voice to Marties Radio with
John Weaver. He is an author, a longtime gospel worker
in Afghanistan. His book is called Inside Afghanistan and you
should order a copy and read it. It is fantastic. So, John,
how is ministry happening? Because I know people are coming
to faith there. You mentioned dream that's one way, but
(10:02):
how is ministry happening right now? Is it primarily that
one on one conversation? Is it coming from the outside
through internet, broadcast, whatever else? How are Afghanis meeting Jesus?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well, since you mentioned the book Inside Afghanistan, I do
want to encourage the listeners who haven't read that there's
so much that they would learn and just be encouraged.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
By what the question you just asked.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I also wrote another book that's more about my journey
called A Flame on the front Line, where I also
talk about, in reference to your question, interacting with Muslims
and sharing with them. And most of the listeners might
remember my wife and I met and married in Afghanistan,
and so we have a love story book called Najiba,
which is my wife, it's her Afghan name. And we
(10:47):
answer some of the questions as well in this in
terms of how God was at work in the context
of us sharing through.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And we had we had a conversation about the wedding
on VOM Radio. I want to I will give you
a link in the show notes this week. Totally should
go listen to that story. A completely culturally Afghan wedding
and a Christian God honoring Jesus honoring wedding in one thing.
It was amazing story. So you got to go listen
to that conversation and get a copy of the book. Najeeba,
(11:15):
So talk about how ministry is happening.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So right now, the first place we would start is
the one on one just like you described earlier. So
so I'm Abdullah and I live in a in any
place in Afghanistan.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Could be cable, could be whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Right, But of course some of the people listening to
this are going to think, I don't mean this real.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You what I'm saying this is real, But this is Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Don't go looking for Abdullah.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Any any Afghan could be called Mohammad or Abdullah.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So we'll call we'll call him Abdullah.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And I write stories about this in the in these
books as well. So Abdullah now has well, it depends
on what happened to him. So in his case, he
may have met someone like us. There are people like
us in the country that are loving and serving Afghans,
and they're living out their faith as humanitarian aid. So
let's say I'll do the met One of them piqued
his interest because he learned something a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
The Word of God now is available.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
In languages that are spoken in Afghanistan, not just in
printed form, you know, but digitally on your phone and
through other social media outlets. So let's say he got
access to the scriptures that we would say God's word,
you know, somehow or another. And the process is he
becomes a believer. Maybe he had a dream, maybe he
did have a dream about the man in white. In
the process, generally speaking, when you hear their testimonies, they
(12:32):
talk about the life of another.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Believer who influenced them. They talk about prayer.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Maybe someone offered to pray for me or or encouraged
me to pray. Because God here's our prayers. He understands
all languages, and the Word of God would be involved
somewhere in that, either a testimony or the scriptures if
they could read it, or in a digital format. The
Jesus Film. Millions of Muslims you know, have watched that.
And then there's this discontent or dissatisfaction that kind of
(12:59):
stirs up in them. Yeah, and then the dreams and
visions is another component of that. Anyway, So I'll do
this now, Follower of Jesus, Well, it doesn't matter where
he works. He lives in a house and he works somewhere,
or maybe sadly, he may not work. There's a lot
of unemployment, sadly. But the point is he has an oicosts,
he has a network of family of friends. No one's
(13:21):
an island, especially in a community based culture. He knows somebody, right,
and let's imagine now he's praying for the somebodies that
he knows, which could be his own family, could be
his neighbors, could be co workers, he could be at
a university, so it could be his fellow students. And
in natural conversations, spiritual things come up among Muslims, more
(13:42):
so maybe with Abdullah, because he's very sensitive to that.
And Jesus said, follow me and I'll make you fishers
of men. So he's open and sensitive to that. But
the way it comes out is one on one. He's
not going to go broadcast it. He's not going to
call some big meeting, you know, what I'm saying, He's not.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Going to stand up in university class and say, guess what, Yes,
I'm following Jesus.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And he probably at this point might not even use
social media, even though I do want to remind the
listeners in this something can to really pray into, not
just in Afghanistan but all throughout the Muslim world. Most
households have a phone. You know, it's amazing. I don't
know the number, but we're talking about twenty plus million
people in Afghanistan have access to a phone.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And what's on the phone? Access to spiritual things. Now
that doesn't mean they're all finding those things, but they're
actually they're actually there. But my point is Abdullah may
have access to those, but he might not be publicly
broadcasting that on his Facebook page, you know what I'm
saying type of thing yeah yet right, or maybe he
is using social media one on one to communicate, you know,
(14:47):
with his interested friends or family. But the point is,
step by step, kind of seed by seed that scriptures say,
some plant and some water. He's going to enter into
discussions like that, and God's going to show him who's
who's open and who's not. And then the encouragement to
a duel is well, consider spending time with the person who,
(15:09):
whomever it might be that's open and prayerfully navigate that
relationship and those conversations to plant seeds. And they are
seeing other family and friends come to faith kind of
in a similar process the all lifestyle of a believer
being sought in light, prayer being offered, the Word of
God being shared in some format. Then they feel this discontent,
(15:30):
dissatisfaction with what their worldview is and the emptiness and
the kind of what they see around them that doesn't
really answer the inescapable questions of life that we would say,
the hopelessness that they feel. We use the word lost,
you know, being lost. That's not necessarily the word that
they come up with, but it's a similar And then
often Jesus then shows up in a a in a
(15:50):
way that's going to further reveal or confirm to them.
Sometimes it's even a dream like hey, read the read
the book that they mentioned, or yes the ngeal which
means the Gospel is true, or you know, yes I
Am the Way the Truth and the life type of
you know, or some directional vision or a confirmation revelation
type of vision from Jesus himself.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
The challenge for Abdullah and I want our listeners to
really catch a hold of this is every single one
of those conversations is potentially a persecution incident. Exactly like
every time he opens his mouth and says.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Hey, have you read the in jail?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Or hey, you know Lisa is mentioned in the Quran?
What do you think about Esa? Every single one of
those conversations potentially is life ending for him.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's right, that's right, and that's not only true in
a place like Afghanistan. That's in true in many many
countries that our listeners would know that that. Sadly, we
have brothers and sisters that are in prison. They've been
in prison for their faith, and you're right, it came
because they took a stand or just relationally shared their faith. Sometimes,
as I said, it's they stopped doing certain things and
(16:57):
start doing certain things, and therefore that kind of opens.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Them must start asking questions for scrutiny.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Or suspicion that people start asking questions.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But sometimes it's in the love of the love of
God that they've discovered, you know what I'm saying, The
love that compels them to go and share, But you're right,
in every circumstance like that, persecution is seconds away, exactly,
it is potentially possibly there.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yes, Yes, So I hope for those of you who
are listening, I hope that inspires your prayers this week
for our Afghan brothers and sisters, and like John mentioned
other countries as well, where every time they open this
door in conversation, it is potentially persecution. It is potentially
them getting locked in a room, or getting beaten or
(17:42):
even getting killed. And just think about I think about
the prayerfulness that they have to enter into those conversations with, Like, Lord,
are you sure is this the right time? Is this
the right person? Show me, Lord, who you have for
me to talk to and who it's okay to talk to.
One of the things John, that we talked about the
(18:04):
last time you were here was Afghan believers who left
the country after the Taliban took over, and some of
them wanting to go back. Yes, And the question mark
was what's going to happen when they show up at
customs and say, hey, here's my passport, I want to
come home. How's the Taliban going to deal with that?
(18:24):
Do you have an update on that? Are there Christians
who have been able to go back. Are there Christians
who've been prevented from going back? What's happening with that?
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Well, forst just to give the updates.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
So yes, So since August of twenty twenty one, I
mean tens of thousands of Afghans have left and they're
scattered all over the country. And yes, there have been
some that actually have gone back for various reasons. Family reasons,
you know, something to do with that. Faith reasons you
know are mixed in that way. I have not personally
(18:55):
occurred of those that have gone back that have experienced
a lot of trouble initially in terms of getting back
into the country. There have been others that have tried
to go back and things have actually happened.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
And as I.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Said, there are people that have been detained or in
prison or have been kicked out for various reasons. Because
when you have a new government beating to a new
different drum, they're going to approach things differently. But we
do know of Afghans who have gone back to Afghanistan
for various reasons, and we do know others that would
love to go back and are kind of waiting. Sometimes
it's like as people of faith, it's like waiting just
(19:30):
for God's timing of things, which sometimes comes out in
a practical logistical way. Well, if I don't have the
proper documents, of course you can't. You can't get a
plane ticket and travel back. You know what I'm saying
now that you've mentioned this and you maybe we're going
to ask it in the next question. There are deportations
that are happening as well, and so sadly there are
from Iran Afghans that have been forced to go back.
(19:53):
So to unpack the question, some are choosing to go back,
but a small small number, right, Some unfortunately, are being
forced to go go back from places like Iran, you know, Tajikistan,
maybe even Turkey a little bit farther away, but the
bordering countries for sure, Iran, Tajikistan and Pakistan. In that number,
it's tens of thousands that are being you know, sent
(20:14):
back to But back to the heart of your question,
some of them are believers as well, Yes, and the
human temptation is to give into fear. And I'm not
in their shoes, so I'm not trying to, you know,
speak to this. I just know that that would be
the human temptation, because I've heard it from some of
them as well. But yet God is the god you
know of immigration. In one sense this is not to
(20:36):
be political. But God has set the times into places,
the seasons, the movements of peoples that they might find Him,
because you know, we're not far from Him.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
In Him, we live and move and have our being
as Acts. Chapter seventeen says.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And just as some have years passed left the country
and had the greater accessibility to the Gospel and have
come believers, some of them now are being sent back,
whether by their own choice or by the circumstances that
they that they can't control. And our hope and our
trust is God and his mercy would provide for them
and use them as salt in lighten and witnesses.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
In their homeland, and protect them as they.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Go am in Yes, exactly amen. Amen.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
We're talking this week on Voice Smarties Radio with John Weaver.
He is a longtime gospel worker in Afghanistan as well
as an author. We will give you a link to
some of his books on our website vomradio dot net. John,
you mentioned the Afghans that have been forced out of
the country, and I know some of them have come
to America. Are there some places and I know your
(21:37):
family has been involved in welcoming and outreach and making sure, Hey,
we want to be sure while you're here you hear
the gospel. Are there some stories you can tell from
from churches or ministries that have really done a good
job of welcoming Afghans and being that connection point to
(21:57):
a local community and a local church and ultimately an
opportunity to say, hey, have you thought about Jesus.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, there are specific locations here in the United States
where followers of Jesus have welcome Mafcons, helped them get
you know, acclimated to life here, Someone's helping them learn English,
someone's helping them learn to drive, someone's helping their kids
navigate the school system, or a mixture of all of
those things. Well, what does that mean? Three to ten,
(22:24):
maybe even twelve believers followers of Jesus rubbing shoulders now
with this new Afghan family or families that are in
a city that they've never been in their lives. So
faith comes up, Spiritual conversations come up, Oh let's pray
about this comes up? Or yes, I'm sorry that you
know BB John your grandmother is sick, can stop and
(22:46):
pray for her? And also the practical thing of does
she need a doctor? You know, does she need medicine?
But faith comes out, spiritual things come out. Oh well,
that reminds me of a story. Can I tell you
a story?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
In Bible?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Stories you know come out, maybe even even the English lesson.
It might even reference you know, some vocabulary you know
from the Bible. So the point is seeds are being sown,
Love is being expressed, prayers being offered, Hospitality has been
you know, given and received both ways reciprocity, and then
other things are happening. God's spirit is working, His word
(23:18):
is becoming living and active. Sometimes they do ask, oh
do you go to church? And sometimes the church question
comes up, or sometimes it gets even more what we
would call discipleship oriented, and they say, hey, we can
meet at your house or in our house if you
want to learn more about God or learn more about
whatever the subject of you know, spiritual topic might be.
And so now there are places where there are Afghan
(23:40):
believers here in cities and the United States that did
not exist before. Some of them are in a local
church that would be more familiar to us but some
of them are doing things in their own house or
in tandem to a local church building because you still
have the language barrier. There's still a lot of Afghans,
not just here in America, in other countries, they have
not yet learn fluently the language of that country, say
(24:03):
in Brazil Portuguese, you know, so Afghans have to navigate
that here in America, you know, English, or Canada and
English or Germany German. So that you know, there's a
lot of Afghans that aren't fluent enough to worship, you know,
I'm saying in the local church language. So they're being encouraged,
even trained, even helped to do it in their local language.
(24:24):
And this is where the diasporas we called it, believers,
Afghan believers that were already scattered, they even have a
role in that, you know, when possible. They even have
a role in that social media does because again all
the technology now in that various Afghan languages, spiritual you know, resources,
and so that whole dynamic's happening in dozens of places
(24:44):
in the United States, but even dozens of other countries
outside of the United States. And that's why we would
say wherever Afghans are scattered. Now God is up to something.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
God does it work. So if there is someone listening
who says, hey, my church wants to or hey I
want to be a part of the at what would
next steps be for them? How would they kind of
stick a toe into that water.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, it kind of depends on where they're at in
their city, you know what I'm saying. But it could
be Catholic charities as in their city, or World Relief
is in their city, or other faith based you know groups,
or could even be another church in their city is
already doing something.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
It would kind of depend on their city.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So we would encourage them if there's that interest to
gather the what we call the coalition of the willing.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
So you got two or three or four or.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Five whatever from your little local church or your little
your Bible study whatever it might be, saying hey, God's
brought the nations to us, let's explore some possibilities. And
we would say, make it something that's birthed in prayer.
And then you have to kind of do a little
bit of research though, to find out in your local
city what's available. And course, you know, I'll offer myself,
(25:50):
you know, if anyone gets my book, my contact information
is in the back of my book. And so if
someone were to say, hey, you know, we live in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
You know what I'm saying, and you know, you know
what's going on in you know, so that I get
emails like that quite often, because even last night, joking
with the family I had dinner with one of the
(26:12):
Afghan men said, you know, now Afghans are everywhere, that's
what they say, you know Afghan how joy Afghans are everywhere.
They don't mean literally everywhere, but meaning because of this
diaspora scattering right now. I mean it's probably true Todd.
There there probably are only a handful of states that
don't have an Afghan population. Of our fifty states, I
(26:32):
mean there's only a handful. And so when you're talking
about cities, you're talking about dozens of cities you know
what I'm saying, that have now Afghan populations.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yes, well, and.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I know even Tulsa, Oklahoma, right down the road from US,
took in many families.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
There's hundreds of families in the Great You.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Might live in the middle of America like I do,
and there's Afghans close by that you can reach out
to John. I know you said earlier you're not a politician,
you're not into the politics. I do want to ask
a little bit of a political question because just recently,
the US Commission on International Religious Freedom recommended Afghanistan for
Country of Particular Concern status, which is a classification of
(27:11):
sort of the worst abusers of religious freedom. My question
is not about that. My question is about does that
matter to the Taliban when the US government or another
government criticizes or chastises them or says, hey, you should
be nicer to religious minorities. Does the Taliban care what
(27:32):
the rest of the world thinks or do they just
sort of say, well, you know, we don't care.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's a hard question to answer, but I think I
would say this, some of them do. Okay, So I
can't say a whole lot, but just speaking in general terms,
as we mentioned, in a place like Afghanistan, there are
times where people are detained, put in prison, or interrogated
or whatever, and we hear stories kind of like what
I'm just going to try to generalize. Now, Yeah, there
(27:58):
were all these you know, Tali unofficials because they're they're
in control of the government, you know, whether the guy
was a religious police guy or what I'm saying, or
an actual military police guy or whatever his role was.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
He had a gun and he put handcuffs on me.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Exactly that's exactly right. But then you also hear, but
I could tell some of them, not all of them,
some of them were a little bit more sympathetic. Interesting,
and then you want to wonder, well, why is that.
So I'm just gonna this is general. I'm gonna assume
they're all pushtumes. So therefore they all would see themselves
as Sunni Muslims conservative Sunni Muslims. But now something happens,
(28:35):
and I'm gonna say that the guy that had happened
to was not a pushtune. Okay, let's say he was
another another from another tribal group and say, so, my
point is, say they're in the process of what's happening
against him, there's three to seven people involved in it,
not necessarily all at one time. But he's got it,
you know, there's he's it's it's not just one person
that's gonna that's gonna be gonna do this. And often
(28:57):
we'll hear stories that somebody in that process was sympathetic,
and then you have to wonder why is that. Well,
I personally believe it's because God's created us all in
his image, and sometimes something happens in our hearts or
our spirits or our psyche and we realize, wait a second,
this guy might not be Poshtune, and he might not
(29:17):
believe what I believe, but he's created in the image
of God, and sometimes that happens. But I also think
the influence of social media, the influence of outside pressure,
you know what I'm saying, and the influence of political things.
I also think sometimes it's almost like Jesus said, those
that have ears to hear, let them hear. And so
I really do believe even among the Talibond, well, some
(29:40):
of them are coming to faith already because Jesus died
for everybody here, pursuing everybody. He's going to redeem his bride,
even among the Pashtuns, and there's resources available in their
languages as well. But I do think, back to those
that have ears to hear, let them hear, there are
some within the government, the Taliban government, who are mostly Poshtuns.
(30:01):
When they hear things like what you just said. I
do think it affects them.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
John, as we wrap up, we always try to equip
our listeners to pray. How can v on radio listeners
pray for Afghanistan this week.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Let's pray for Afghanistan this week for a sense of
peace and stability. Thinking in terms of the just the
country itself and knowing there's thirty five plus million people
in the country. Let's you know, that's that's more of
a general prayer. But let's pray specifically for the Taliban,
because as the scriptures instruct us to pray for those
in authority, they are the authority within the within the country.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
But let's pray for believers.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
There are believers there, I still think Todd, we can
say from most all the main tribes there are there
are believers there. Now their number may be less than
it other seasons, you know what I'm saying of history,
But the point is there are Poshtune believers.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
There are Hazara believers there.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
We can't it, can't hide it now, you know what
I'm saying. And so let's let's remember them. Let's remember
them now from from our interview here, Let's remember those
that are suffering and imprison as if we were as well,
there's that Body of Christ identifying fellowship, you know, in
that way, But the general prayer for the believers, for
their provisions, for their protection. As you know, listeners, you've
(31:12):
heard this from many people that've given interviews like this.
When we ask believers in other countries how can we help,
they all say, please pray for us. And because they
know God and Heaven hears our prayers and prayers. Is
so the point is I sometimes like to say pray
for them like.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
You would pray for yourself if you were in their situation.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So provision protection, you know, God's presence, but also for
opportunity to share their faith, that their number would increase,
because often, as you know you've heard me say ted,
I get asked, well, how many believers are there in Afghanistan? Well,
I don't know, only God knows, but I often say
there's not enough. There's not enough. There's not enough. You know,
Jesus said, I have many more sheep. So that'd be
(31:53):
the other expression of prayer, to pray for people to
come into the Kingdom in Afghanistan dreams and visions through
their raady, through technology, you know, through digital social media,
for the witness of the gospel to spread and bring
forth fruit in Afghanistan.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Amen, We've been talking this week on Voice of the
Martis Radio with John Weaver. We will give you links
to his books and more about him at our website,
Vomradio dot net. John. I have been looking forward to
this conversation. I always love having a conversation with you
and getting to share, getting to inspire people to pray
for Afghanistan. Thanks for being our guest this week on
(32:29):
Voice of the Martis Radio.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Thank you, Tom. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Thank you so much, and I hope you will be
back with us next week. We are going to talk
to Ty Scott. He leads vom's international ministry work in
East and Southern Africa. So we've talked today about how
God does at work in Afghanistan. We're going to talk
next week about how He is at work in Sudan
and Tanzania and some of the countries in Africa. I
(32:52):
know you want to be a part of that conversation,
so make sure you're back with us next week right
here on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.
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