June 27, 2025 • 25 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mona is a Christian leader in Egypt. She's certainly aware
of the danger posed to her and her family by
Islamist extremists, but she does not view them as enemies.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
They're not our enemy as a people, but they are
victim of the name, the victim of this idea about
hating Christian and kill them, and so they are not
our enemy. Jesus love everyone.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as sheep among wolves. Jesus's words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Join hosts Todd nettletons we hear their
inspiring stories and learn how we can help right now
(00:48):
on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Welcome again to the Voice of the Martyrs Radio. My
name is Todd Nettleton and we are in our studio
today in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, with Michael and Mona. If you
are a long time listen to Voice of the Martyrs Radio,
you know we often have guests with only one name
that we use. We are also going to alter Michael
and Mona's voices, that is, to protect them and their security.
(01:11):
They are Christian leaders from Egypt. They are working across
North Africa in some very difficult places. Michael and Mona,
welcome to the Voice of the martysch Radio.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's look at kind of your personal story. How how
did you come to Christ, How did he call you
into ministry? Just give us a little bit of background.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Okay, I'm Mona, I'm from Egypt. I'm born in Christian family.
Originally I knew Jesus since I was nine years old.
Changed my life personally. My mother bussed away when I'm born,
so I had not very happy childhood. But I feel
(01:53):
Jesus changed my life. Wow, I find joy, I find peace,
and after this I woke the journey with Jesus. I
find my journey's very special.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
For me, I knew Jesus since two thousand and two,
and before that I was away from the Christianity. I
born in a Christian family, but first the twenty years
in my life, I was away from the relationship with Jesus.
But after that I met Jesus in a small town
(02:26):
in Egypt. Then I met Mona. Both of us we
have a calling to serve God out of our country,
so we went a place for five years and after
that we came back to Egypt.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
One of the things I think that's really interesting as
we talk about Egypt is the Christian experience is different
for different people. So you have the Coptic Orthodox background
people who are sort of traditionally Christian, they are viewed
as Christians. Then you have Muslims who were born in
a Muslim family, but now they're following Jesus. How does
(03:01):
it affect persecution if you are a Coptic Christian or
if you are a Muslim background now follower of Jesus Christ.
How does persecution look different?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
If you are from Christian background or if you are
from the Coptic background, there is no problem. But if
you are from the Muslim bank ground the problem. First
it will be from your family, then the community, then
the security. So they are facing a lot of persecution,
(03:33):
especially if they are trying to say that we are
following Jesus.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So you mentioned that that first line is the family. Yes,
what does that look like like? If I go to
my dad as a young man, I'm you know, nineteen
years old, and I go to my father or mother
and say, father and mother, I'm not going to go
to the mosque anymore with you, I'm a follower of Jesus.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Now, oh, they hate you. Sometimes they insult you. Sometimes
they will not accept at all.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It will not go well. So most new Christians then
from a Muslim background, they would keep it very quiet,
like they wouldn't mention it to their family. They wouldn't.
They would just kind of keep it as secret as possible.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
And actually is a problem.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Actually it is not with your father, but sometime you
are married, so if you would like to say it
with your spouse or something like that, also it will
be a problem. So it is not an easy thing
to say that I am now following Jesus for Muslim bankground.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But as a Christian, even Christian background, from day one,
we have discrimbination Christian background. It's number two in the
community with the government and university, in schools, and since
we grew up, we know we are Christian.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
We are number two, second class.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
We're not equal. Even if we have the same grades,
we don't have the same rights because we are Christian.
Even if you are Christian by name not believers. Still
your second class.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
It is a kind of discriminations, but we call it
it is a persecution. We are equal, but we don't
have the same writers, so it is a persecution because
of my religion.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So in other facts, as you mentioned, in education, in employment,
in housing, in everything.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yes and everything.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Even if you would like to rent a plank, yeah, okay,
we will not rent for a Christian.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Wow, It's very clear.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
In employments because you find most of employment in government
they are Muslims. In the university are Muslims. You find
the Christian they are so smart and clever. Ourben business,
private business because this is open for them, but not
with the government.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So like going to get a job is going to
be difficulty, very difficult. So how does the church, how
do you as Christians in Egypt, how do you deal
with that sort of constant, like you said, second class status.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
I think, first thing, we're always trying to help our
Christian our people because they are facing a lot of
persecution from outside. So as a church, we're trying first
to help them. We're trying to find a job for them.
We're trying to do helping them and actually to do
(06:22):
advocacy for them. This is our role as a Christian.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think we grew up also in the churches as
we proud to be Christian. We are so proud to
be Christian. We don't deny, we don't just skip it
or hide it, but we feel our Lord depend on
us always.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yes, it's interesting that you mentioned as the church you
feel an obligation to help people find a place to
live and find a job and all the things that
they would get from family connections. The church becomes that
family connection.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
It becomes like that of the minority issue.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
And because of the feeling that they are refused outside,
so we are trying actually most of the time to
helping them and to work with them. We are not refused.
We are not a secondary class. But this is withpologistas.
So it is kind of discrimination and persecution. I think
(07:23):
the term of discrimination, we put it like a persecution
slash discrimination.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, in our situation.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I think also in our community churchouls have become very important.
It's not just place we worship in, but it's kind
of a body of Christ. We help each other in
many things. We help each other sometimes in food and clothes,
in employment, in fine job, in renting house, because we
(07:52):
need each other.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It's very much a community.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So how did you guys become involved sort of stepping
beyond that into ministry and into outreach and into training
leaders and all of the ministry that you're involved in today.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
I think the first step it was like we attend
training and the schools and some people they are invested
on us. So we realize that is our future or
our life to not be only for ourselves, but it
will be for others. Because of that, we start from
the young age to try to help the Christian even
(08:34):
they are from Mostlim background, or even they are from
a Christian background, we're trying to help them.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
The life in Egypt. It's a very difficult Egypt. We
have a lot of a challenge even in poverty or
in health issue or we have many challenges. But we
feel we have hope and we can give this hope
for people. It makes our lives different, not our situations
(09:01):
or what we are living, it's different, but what we
have it's different. So we feel our hope can it
change people life? Hope with Jesus. It's not just we
say it at a label, but it's very real experience.
We tried, and we just want to chase this gospel
for people.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
And I think also it is not an easy thing
to close your eyes, yes, and you return back to
your life, normal life and leave all of these peoples
without helping.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And when we started ministry, we traveled a lot to villages,
we listen a lot, We have seen many things, and
I feel as a couple, it's our calling. We can't
live our life the same like before, because now we
know this, it's happened and we can help and God
help us with resources, with the teams, with the many
(09:57):
people around the world. They understand it and they want
to help with us. So this is our rule and
this is privileged. This is pleasing in our life. Not
we are doing, but we are receiving from God.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martges Radio
with Michael and Mona. They are Christian leaders from Egypt.
I'm curious about the Christian population there, which, as you mentioned,
is treated as second class citizens. It would be easy
to see the rest of society as your enemies, like
these are the people that are attacking us, they are
(10:31):
pressuring us, they're pushing against us.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
No, no, no, no, not at all.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Actually, but sometimes they are not they what they are
dealing with us. But sometimes there is a people and
media also trying to do something like a problems between us.
But they are good people. They are friends, We are
living each other. So they are not our enemies at all.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Can I say Muslim They our neighbors, our colleagues, ours.
But when we speak about these persecutions, we speak about
fundamental Muslims, fundamental mindset. Right, we are not speak about
Muslims people. They are friends, and we don't say all
of Muslims they treat us like this, But we speak
(11:18):
about Christian It's almost we are between fifteen to twenty
percent Christians in Egypt, more than fifteen millions. Can I
say fundamental Muslim They are not our enemy, but they
are victim of the enemy.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Explain that a little more.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
They're not our enemy as a people, but they are
the victim of this the victim of this idea about
hating Christian and kill them and try to make their
life it's terrible. So they are not our enemy. Jesus
love everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, in many ways, they are held captive to the
things they've been taught, the ideology they've been given, and
ultimately to our enemy. Yes, it's great to articulate that
because sometimes we do think about, oh, you know, there
are enemies, they are the people that hate us. But
(12:09):
the Bible was pretty clear that we're supposed to even
even if they are our enemies, we're supposed to love them.
We're supposed to reach out to them. What does that
look like among the Christian community in Egypt of reaching
out and loving even the people who are opposed to you.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
I think because of the Christian continue loving the Muslim.
So you now you have many Muslim bankground come to
Jesus because the rest of the community, I mean the
community of that Christian loving them even from what they
heard or actually facing during the year. So stells the
(12:45):
church helping actually loving the Muslim in our country.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I think unconditional love this is the secret for anyone who.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Whether they're a Muslim or not. Yeah, showing the unconditional
love that Jesus gives us to give out to other
people is Yeah. I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think because unconditional love, we are here, all of us,
we always call it that is, all of us.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Coming from different background, all of the Christians living Jesus.
They are even if you are a Christian bank ground
or Moslim bank ground, but all of us we have
a different background.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Michael and Mona. I know you're also involved sort of
in other places across North Africa. And one of the
things you said, Michael, and I've heard this about other
places in North Africa. If there's persecution, it starts with
your family. Yeah, and at some point the authorities, the police,
the government might get involved, but that's almost never the
first step. It's always starts with family. As you look
(13:47):
across North Africa. Is that pretty consistent across there, that
it's your family first and the government may or may
not get involved, depending on the family's desires.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
I think it is a family because if it is
a family accept if they accept the idea, you can
continue without any problem.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So if your family knows you're a Christian and they
don't come against you, that's a huge blessing.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Yes, And I think in the art of World it's
the key. It is with a mather. So sometimes a
mather accepts the idea so she can explain it well
to the rest of the family, so maybe the family
will accept it. You are not facing any problem with
the community.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think also in our country. The religion is our identity,
our identity. I am Egyptian Christian. This is my identity.
So change your religion. It's not about what I believe,
but what I am.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And you don't belong here anymore if you're not a Muslim.
That's right, yes, interesting.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
But actually is a problem if you are a single
and become a Christian. So if you are a man,
no woman, and you would like maybe to have a
wife or husband, this is a huge problem. And this
is not an easy thing, especially if you are from
(15:12):
a Muslim bank ground.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Dig into that a little bit more because of the
family connection that happens through a marriage, and no other
family is going to want to be connected with a
Christian or.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
This one reason. Second reason our law. I think this
is a huge topic now because if you are a
Muslim and become Christian, still all your paper Muslims paper.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
You can't change it.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
In our idea, they written the religion a Muslim or Christian.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So everybody, like your driver's license or national idea says
your religion.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Actually they can know from your name.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So as soon as they hear your name, they know.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
They know you are.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
But actually is a problem also it is out of Egypt,
because not only in Egypt, because but if you are
from North Africa or from some country in the Middle East,
if you are a Muslim or you are from a
Muslim bank ground, then you would like to have a wife.
This is not an easy thing to find. The good
(16:13):
wife she is also from a Muslim bank. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
We're talking this week on Voice to Marties Radio with
Michael and Mona. They are Christian leaders from Egypt. I
know one of the things that you do in your
ministry is you're helping refugees who are coming into Egypt.
Maybe sure a little bit about that and what their
lives are like in Egypt as refugees from other places.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
That if it is and Egypt, they are facing a
problem because actually Egypt now also in a crisis, in
an academic crisis, so it is not an easy for
Egyptian So we don't have a lot of jobs and
opportunity to work in Egypt.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
So now we have.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
More than you come in from another country, you don't
have ID, you don't have the permission to work, and
so you're.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Most of them, by maybe ninety percent of them, they
are coming a legal way. So a church trying to
help them, to find a place to give them supplies
or food or all of these things. But still the
problem they can't find the war. So the problem continues
because they are here because there is a war in
(17:23):
their countries. So that is a problem.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So would most of those refugees be coming to Egypt
thinking they're going to leave and go somewhere else eventually,
or do they come to Egypt thinking.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
They are hoping.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
They're hoping, they are hoping, but actually who which country
will take millions?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Where are they going to go?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And where are they coming from?
Speaker 5 (17:46):
We have so then we have from Syria, we have
from Eritrea, we have a little better or a few
people from Gaza.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So they're coming from all directions mainly.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So then is it's I think last two years it's
more than four to five million Egypt receiving Soudenese. It's
really very difficult for them. As he said, we struggle economically,
so for them, it's very difficult. After inflation, the currency
it's become very weak. The food it's become very expensive.
(18:18):
We met many people, many children, they said we eat
once every two days, so it's really distributing food.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's become essential, and would most of these people be
at least they would identify themselves as Muslims or as
Christians or some of each. They're just coming for safety
because of what's going on in today.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And actually when we are trying to help, we are
helping posts.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Which I know is always an interesting thing for a
Muslim refugee to be getting help from Christians and looking
around at Muslims who are not helping them and saying, well,
our brothers here are not helping us, but you Christian
are helping us.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
This is unconditional love, and this is I think this
is the gospel, the message of gospel we find especially
when they came from so then they came women with
the children, when women with eight children, ten children and
two three families set in very small flats, so the
life is miserable, find barely they find food for today
(19:25):
and sometimes for many days they don't have. We can't
close our eyes and set at this time. This is
Muslim or Christian, this is people.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah, it is opening a lot of doors to sharing
the gospel. But first we are not doing this because
of the evangelists. We are doing this because of the
love of Jesus for everyone, but for sure open a
lot of doors.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
They ask many questions, why why we're doing this? First question,
do you need something from us?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
What do you want from us?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (19:58):
And actually sometimes we are saying, okay, you don't have
anything actually to give it us, but we love you
and Jesus love you.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Now, are those refugee kids, is there any kind of
schooling for them or not? Really?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Yes, there is some churches and ministers trying to do
like a community or homeschooling for them to help in them.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Because our government schools already overwhelmed. We don't have any space.
Right we can say, government close the doors because they
don't have any room for them. So churches try to help,
community try to help, but it's not enough at all.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah. Well, and you think about any country where you
got four million refugees that suddenly show up and they
need jobs, and they need food and they need a
place to live. That's overwhelming for any country to try
to deal with.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
So that is at least four to five many at least.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Wow, you can find now in Egypt, anywhere you can
find so they needs because it's it's very easy to
recognize them.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, we're talking this week on Voice of the Martist
Radio with Michael and Mona. They are Christian leaders from Egypt.
I know. Another part of your ministry is leadership training.
What does that look like and why is it so important?
Is is it kind of like a seminary program or
is it more sort of gradual training. Talk a little
(21:21):
bit about.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
That, Okay.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
I think we need that because as a minority in
the Middle East, we need to equip our leaders. So
the leaders they can take the church in a deep
and the churches can actually evangelism and.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Go to to the world.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
So that is why it is very important. And most
of the time we are working about the leadership is
cave character, Bible knowledge, all these things.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So is that primarily for someone who feels called to
be a pastor or that's just kind of discipleship?
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It is that designle okay, yes, actually for youth. Most
of the time we are doing this for youth.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And what is the response within the church? Are people
excited about that or are they kind of like, well, why,
you know, why do I need this?
Speaker 5 (22:11):
In some areas they are very excited because they have
a lot of resources, Like in North Africa, they don't
have many resources like that, So it is a huge
opportunity for them.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
We're doing this training Muslim background with originally Christian youth,
so it's very effective to see it's they can merge together,
they can do something together. They see the future for
the church.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
One of the things that we always try to do
is equip our listeners to pray. So, if we're going
to pray for Egypt this week, what are some specific
things that we can pray for.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
For the church to be strong and to help others.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I think Egypt it's opened the door for many refugees
and for many people, and we need pray for economic
also because the world's around Egypt from all the borders,
all the country around us, they have war. This affects
us so much and we need mercy for this.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
What are the biggest challenges for you guys in your
ministry right now? What are the things that keep you
awake at night wondering about? Okay, Lord, how are we
going to do this?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
I think to find that good people, good example, they
have a calling from God to serve others and our.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Area.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
This is something not easy because most of them, even
now they are thinking maybe they will emigrate to the
Western parts. So maybe it with a better life and
all the things and this is okay, but actually we
need good caliber. They can help the churches and medle
Eastian or we.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Already travel in between village a lot our road. It's
we have very poverty road. It's not safe. So we
need prayer for God protect our team during this transportation,
public transportation or this kind of roads. God protict us.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Amen, Michael and Mona, we will pray. The Ome Radio
listeners are prayer warriors. We will pray this week for
you guys and for the ministry that you're doing in
North Africa. Thank you for being our guest this week
on Voice of the Martyrs Radio.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Thank you so is our privilege.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Thanks, it's been a great privilege to have you here.
I hope that you will join in prayer this week
for what God is doing in Egypt, and I think
of all of those refugees and just the opportunity that
is for the gospel, but also the amount of work
it is and the amount of need that's there. Pray
with us this week for the nation of Egypt and
join us again next week right here on the Voice
(24:57):
of the Martyrs Radio Network.
Mona is a Christian leader in Egypt. She's certainly aware
of the danger posed to her and her family by
Islamist extremists, but she does not view them as enemies.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
They're not our enemy as a people, but they are
victim of the name, the victim of this idea about
hating Christian and kill them, and so they are not
our enemy. Jesus love everyone.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as sheep among wolves. Jesus's words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Join hosts Todd nettletons we hear their
inspiring stories and learn how we can help right now
(00:48):
on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Welcome again to the Voice of the Martyrs Radio. My
name is Todd Nettleton and we are in our studio
today in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, with Michael and Mona. If you
are a long time listen to Voice of the Martyrs Radio,
you know we often have guests with only one name
that we use. We are also going to alter Michael
and Mona's voices, that is, to protect them and their security.
(01:11):
They are Christian leaders from Egypt. They are working across
North Africa in some very difficult places. Michael and Mona,
welcome to the Voice of the martysch Radio.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's look at kind of your personal story. How how
did you come to Christ, How did he call you
into ministry? Just give us a little bit of background.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Okay, I'm Mona, I'm from Egypt. I'm born in Christian family.
Originally I knew Jesus since I was nine years old.
Changed my life personally. My mother bussed away when I'm born,
so I had not very happy childhood. But I feel
(01:53):
Jesus changed my life. Wow, I find joy, I find peace,
and after this I woke the journey with Jesus. I
find my journey's very special.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
For me, I knew Jesus since two thousand and two,
and before that I was away from the Christianity. I
born in a Christian family, but first the twenty years
in my life, I was away from the relationship with Jesus.
But after that I met Jesus in a small town
(02:26):
in Egypt. Then I met Mona. Both of us we
have a calling to serve God out of our country,
so we went a place for five years and after
that we came back to Egypt.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
One of the things I think that's really interesting as
we talk about Egypt is the Christian experience is different
for different people. So you have the Coptic Orthodox background
people who are sort of traditionally Christian, they are viewed
as Christians. Then you have Muslims who were born in
a Muslim family, but now they're following Jesus. How does
(03:01):
it affect persecution if you are a Coptic Christian or
if you are a Muslim background now follower of Jesus Christ.
How does persecution look different?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
If you are from Christian background or if you are
from the Coptic background, there is no problem. But if
you are from the Muslim bank ground the problem. First
it will be from your family, then the community, then
the security. So they are facing a lot of persecution,
(03:33):
especially if they are trying to say that we are
following Jesus.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So you mentioned that that first line is the family. Yes,
what does that look like like? If I go to
my dad as a young man, I'm you know, nineteen
years old, and I go to my father or mother
and say, father and mother, I'm not going to go
to the mosque anymore with you, I'm a follower of Jesus.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Now, oh, they hate you. Sometimes they insult you. Sometimes
they will not accept at all.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It will not go well. So most new Christians then
from a Muslim background, they would keep it very quiet,
like they wouldn't mention it to their family. They wouldn't.
They would just kind of keep it as secret as possible.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
And actually is a problem.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Actually it is not with your father, but sometime you
are married, so if you would like to say it
with your spouse or something like that, also it will
be a problem. So it is not an easy thing
to say that I am now following Jesus for Muslim bankground.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But as a Christian, even Christian background, from day one,
we have discrimbination Christian background. It's number two in the
community with the government and university, in schools, and since
we grew up, we know we are Christian.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
We are number two, second class.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
We're not equal. Even if we have the same grades,
we don't have the same rights because we are Christian.
Even if you are Christian by name not believers. Still
your second class.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
It is a kind of discriminations, but we call it
it is a persecution. We are equal, but we don't
have the same writers, so it is a persecution because
of my religion.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So in other facts, as you mentioned, in education, in employment,
in housing, in everything.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yes and everything.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Even if you would like to rent a plank, yeah, okay,
we will not rent for a Christian.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Wow, It's very clear.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
In employments because you find most of employment in government
they are Muslims. In the university are Muslims. You find
the Christian they are so smart and clever. Ourben business,
private business because this is open for them, but not
with the government.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So like going to get a job is going to
be difficulty, very difficult. So how does the church, how
do you as Christians in Egypt, how do you deal
with that sort of constant, like you said, second class status.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
I think, first thing, we're always trying to help our
Christian our people because they are facing a lot of
persecution from outside. So as a church, we're trying first
to help them. We're trying to find a job for them.
We're trying to do helping them and actually to do
(06:22):
advocacy for them. This is our role as a Christian.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think we grew up also in the churches as
we proud to be Christian. We are so proud to
be Christian. We don't deny, we don't just skip it
or hide it, but we feel our Lord depend on
us always.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yes, it's interesting that you mentioned as the church you
feel an obligation to help people find a place to
live and find a job and all the things that
they would get from family connections. The church becomes that
family connection.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
It becomes like that of the minority issue.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
And because of the feeling that they are refused outside,
so we are trying actually most of the time to
helping them and to work with them. We are not refused.
We are not a secondary class. But this is withpologistas.
So it is kind of discrimination and persecution. I think
(07:23):
the term of discrimination, we put it like a persecution
slash discrimination.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, in our situation.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I think also in our community churchouls have become very important.
It's not just place we worship in, but it's kind
of a body of Christ. We help each other in
many things. We help each other sometimes in food and clothes,
in employment, in fine job, in renting house, because we
(07:52):
need each other.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It's very much a community.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So how did you guys become involved sort of stepping
beyond that into ministry and into outreach and into training
leaders and all of the ministry that you're involved in today.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
I think the first step it was like we attend
training and the schools and some people they are invested
on us. So we realize that is our future or
our life to not be only for ourselves, but it
will be for others. Because of that, we start from
the young age to try to help the Christian even
(08:34):
they are from Mostlim background, or even they are from
a Christian background, we're trying to help them.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
The life in Egypt. It's a very difficult Egypt. We
have a lot of a challenge even in poverty or
in health issue or we have many challenges. But we
feel we have hope and we can give this hope
for people. It makes our lives different, not our situations
(09:01):
or what we are living, it's different, but what we
have it's different. So we feel our hope can it
change people life? Hope with Jesus. It's not just we
say it at a label, but it's very real experience.
We tried, and we just want to chase this gospel
for people.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
And I think also it is not an easy thing
to close your eyes, yes, and you return back to
your life, normal life and leave all of these peoples
without helping.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And when we started ministry, we traveled a lot to villages,
we listen a lot, We have seen many things, and
I feel as a couple, it's our calling. We can't
live our life the same like before, because now we
know this, it's happened and we can help and God
help us with resources, with the teams, with the many
(09:57):
people around the world. They understand it and they want
to help with us. So this is our rule and
this is privileged. This is pleasing in our life. Not
we are doing, but we are receiving from God.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martges Radio
with Michael and Mona. They are Christian leaders from Egypt.
I'm curious about the Christian population there, which, as you mentioned,
is treated as second class citizens. It would be easy
to see the rest of society as your enemies, like
these are the people that are attacking us, they are
(10:31):
pressuring us, they're pushing against us.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
No, no, no, no, not at all.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Actually, but sometimes they are not they what they are
dealing with us. But sometimes there is a people and
media also trying to do something like a problems between us.
But they are good people. They are friends, We are
living each other. So they are not our enemies at all.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Can I say Muslim They our neighbors, our colleagues, ours.
But when we speak about these persecutions, we speak about
fundamental Muslims, fundamental mindset. Right, we are not speak about
Muslims people. They are friends, and we don't say all
of Muslims they treat us like this, But we speak
(11:18):
about Christian It's almost we are between fifteen to twenty
percent Christians in Egypt, more than fifteen millions. Can I
say fundamental Muslim They are not our enemy, but they
are victim of the enemy.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Explain that a little more.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
They're not our enemy as a people, but they are
the victim of this the victim of this idea about
hating Christian and kill them and try to make their
life it's terrible. So they are not our enemy. Jesus
love everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, in many ways, they are held captive to the
things they've been taught, the ideology they've been given, and
ultimately to our enemy. Yes, it's great to articulate that
because sometimes we do think about, oh, you know, there
are enemies, they are the people that hate us. But
(12:09):
the Bible was pretty clear that we're supposed to even
even if they are our enemies, we're supposed to love them.
We're supposed to reach out to them. What does that
look like among the Christian community in Egypt of reaching
out and loving even the people who are opposed to you.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
I think because of the Christian continue loving the Muslim.
So you now you have many Muslim bankground come to
Jesus because the rest of the community, I mean the
community of that Christian loving them even from what they
heard or actually facing during the year. So stells the
(12:45):
church helping actually loving the Muslim in our country.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I think unconditional love this is the secret for anyone who.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Whether they're a Muslim or not. Yeah, showing the unconditional
love that Jesus gives us to give out to other
people is Yeah. I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think because unconditional love, we are here, all of us,
we always call it that is, all of us.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Coming from different background, all of the Christians living Jesus.
They are even if you are a Christian bank ground
or Moslim bank ground, but all of us we have
a different background.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Michael and Mona. I know you're also involved sort of
in other places across North Africa. And one of the
things you said, Michael, and I've heard this about other
places in North Africa. If there's persecution, it starts with
your family. Yeah, and at some point the authorities, the police,
the government might get involved, but that's almost never the
first step. It's always starts with family. As you look
(13:47):
across North Africa. Is that pretty consistent across there, that
it's your family first and the government may or may
not get involved, depending on the family's desires.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
I think it is a family because if it is
a family accept if they accept the idea, you can
continue without any problem.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So if your family knows you're a Christian and they
don't come against you, that's a huge blessing.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Yes, And I think in the art of World it's
the key. It is with a mather. So sometimes a
mather accepts the idea so she can explain it well
to the rest of the family, so maybe the family
will accept it. You are not facing any problem with
the community.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think also in our country. The religion is our identity,
our identity. I am Egyptian Christian. This is my identity.
So change your religion. It's not about what I believe,
but what I am.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And you don't belong here anymore if you're not a Muslim.
That's right, yes, interesting.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
But actually is a problem if you are a single
and become a Christian. So if you are a man,
no woman, and you would like maybe to have a
wife or husband, this is a huge problem. And this
is not an easy thing, especially if you are from
(15:12):
a Muslim bank ground.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Dig into that a little bit more because of the
family connection that happens through a marriage, and no other
family is going to want to be connected with a
Christian or.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
This one reason. Second reason our law. I think this
is a huge topic now because if you are a
Muslim and become Christian, still all your paper Muslims paper.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
You can't change it.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
In our idea, they written the religion a Muslim or Christian.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So everybody, like your driver's license or national idea says
your religion.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Actually they can know from your name.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So as soon as they hear your name, they know.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
They know you are.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
But actually is a problem also it is out of Egypt,
because not only in Egypt, because but if you are
from North Africa or from some country in the Middle East,
if you are a Muslim or you are from a
Muslim bank ground, then you would like to have a wife.
This is not an easy thing to find. The good
(16:13):
wife she is also from a Muslim bank. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
We're talking this week on Voice to Marties Radio with
Michael and Mona. They are Christian leaders from Egypt. I
know one of the things that you do in your
ministry is you're helping refugees who are coming into Egypt.
Maybe sure a little bit about that and what their
lives are like in Egypt as refugees from other places.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
That if it is and Egypt, they are facing a
problem because actually Egypt now also in a crisis, in
an academic crisis, so it is not an easy for
Egyptian So we don't have a lot of jobs and
opportunity to work in Egypt.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
So now we have.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
More than you come in from another country, you don't
have ID, you don't have the permission to work, and
so you're.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Most of them, by maybe ninety percent of them, they
are coming a legal way. So a church trying to
help them, to find a place to give them supplies
or food or all of these things. But still the
problem they can't find the war. So the problem continues
because they are here because there is a war in
(17:23):
their countries. So that is a problem.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So would most of those refugees be coming to Egypt
thinking they're going to leave and go somewhere else eventually,
or do they come to Egypt thinking.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
They are hoping.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
They're hoping, they are hoping, but actually who which country
will take millions?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Where are they going to go?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And where are they coming from?
Speaker 5 (17:46):
We have so then we have from Syria, we have
from Eritrea, we have a little better or a few
people from Gaza.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So they're coming from all directions mainly.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So then is it's I think last two years it's
more than four to five million Egypt receiving Soudenese. It's
really very difficult for them. As he said, we struggle economically,
so for them, it's very difficult. After inflation, the currency
it's become very weak. The food it's become very expensive.
(18:18):
We met many people, many children, they said we eat
once every two days, so it's really distributing food.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's become essential, and would most of these people be
at least they would identify themselves as Muslims or as
Christians or some of each. They're just coming for safety
because of what's going on in today.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And actually when we are trying to help, we are
helping posts.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Which I know is always an interesting thing for a
Muslim refugee to be getting help from Christians and looking
around at Muslims who are not helping them and saying, well,
our brothers here are not helping us, but you Christian
are helping us.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
This is unconditional love, and this is I think this
is the gospel, the message of gospel we find especially
when they came from so then they came women with
the children, when women with eight children, ten children and
two three families set in very small flats, so the
life is miserable, find barely they find food for today
(19:25):
and sometimes for many days they don't have. We can't
close our eyes and set at this time. This is
Muslim or Christian, this is people.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah, it is opening a lot of doors to sharing
the gospel. But first we are not doing this because
of the evangelists. We are doing this because of the
love of Jesus for everyone, but for sure open a
lot of doors.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
They ask many questions, why why we're doing this? First question,
do you need something from us?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
What do you want from us?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (19:58):
And actually sometimes we are saying, okay, you don't have
anything actually to give it us, but we love you
and Jesus love you.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Now, are those refugee kids, is there any kind of
schooling for them or not? Really?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Yes, there is some churches and ministers trying to do
like a community or homeschooling for them to help in them.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Because our government schools already overwhelmed. We don't have any space.
Right we can say, government close the doors because they
don't have any room for them. So churches try to help,
community try to help, but it's not enough at all.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah. Well, and you think about any country where you
got four million refugees that suddenly show up and they
need jobs, and they need food and they need a
place to live. That's overwhelming for any country to try
to deal with.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
So that is at least four to five many at least.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Wow, you can find now in Egypt, anywhere you can
find so they needs because it's it's very easy to
recognize them.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, we're talking this week on Voice of the Martist
Radio with Michael and Mona. They are Christian leaders from Egypt.
I know. Another part of your ministry is leadership training.
What does that look like and why is it so important?
Is is it kind of like a seminary program or
is it more sort of gradual training. Talk a little
(21:21):
bit about.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
That, Okay.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
I think we need that because as a minority in
the Middle East, we need to equip our leaders. So
the leaders they can take the church in a deep
and the churches can actually evangelism and.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Go to to the world.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
So that is why it is very important. And most
of the time we are working about the leadership is
cave character, Bible knowledge, all these things.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So is that primarily for someone who feels called to
be a pastor or that's just kind of discipleship?
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It is that designle okay, yes, actually for youth. Most
of the time we are doing this for youth.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And what is the response within the church? Are people
excited about that or are they kind of like, well, why,
you know, why do I need this?
Speaker 5 (22:11):
In some areas they are very excited because they have
a lot of resources, Like in North Africa, they don't
have many resources like that, So it is a huge
opportunity for them.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
We're doing this training Muslim background with originally Christian youth,
so it's very effective to see it's they can merge together,
they can do something together. They see the future for
the church.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
One of the things that we always try to do
is equip our listeners to pray. So, if we're going
to pray for Egypt this week, what are some specific
things that we can pray for.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
For the church to be strong and to help others.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I think Egypt it's opened the door for many refugees
and for many people, and we need pray for economic
also because the world's around Egypt from all the borders,
all the country around us, they have war. This affects
us so much and we need mercy for this.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
What are the biggest challenges for you guys in your
ministry right now? What are the things that keep you
awake at night wondering about? Okay, Lord, how are we
going to do this?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
I think to find that good people, good example, they
have a calling from God to serve others and our.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Area.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
This is something not easy because most of them, even
now they are thinking maybe they will emigrate to the
Western parts. So maybe it with a better life and
all the things and this is okay, but actually we
need good caliber. They can help the churches and medle
Eastian or we.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Already travel in between village a lot our road. It's
we have very poverty road. It's not safe. So we
need prayer for God protect our team during this transportation,
public transportation or this kind of roads. God protict us.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Amen, Michael and Mona, we will pray. The Ome Radio
listeners are prayer warriors. We will pray this week for
you guys and for the ministry that you're doing in
North Africa. Thank you for being our guest this week
on Voice of the Martyrs Radio.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Thank you so is our privilege.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Thanks, it's been a great privilege to have you here.
I hope that you will join in prayer this week
for what God is doing in Egypt, and I think
of all of those refugees and just the opportunity that
is for the gospel, but also the amount of work
it is and the amount of need that's there. Pray
with us this week for the nation of Egypt and
join us again next week right here on the Voice
(24:57):
of the Martyrs Radio Network.
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